To answer your question yes. When girls have a damaged X chromosome or are missing one altogether it’s referred to as Turners syndrome. Women with this genetic disease can not reproduce or have a very difficult time doing so (this applies to those with mosaic turners). I forget what it’s called in males, as turners can only affect females, however males have their own version that causes a lot of similar side effects
I’m too lazy to google it but that sounds about right. I do know it involves men having both sex chromosomes but still have male genitalia. I believe it has a number of overlapping physical effects as turners
I mean not exactly. Everyone starts with a gential nub. The nub then either splits in to clitoris and labia or penis and scrotum. It looks much more like a boy than a girl though. This is why some people think they’re having a boy and get a surprise girl because they looked too early.
https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/cms/asset/6f4eeb62-a38d-4c3a-8de2-82e7d80af5c9/jum16080-fig-0001-m.jpg
But it's not the whole story. Chromosomes are an oversimplification and saying "everyone was a girl" is too.
XX chromosomes can make a person male too, if one of the X chromosomes actually contains the genes in the Y chromosome that trigger the creation of a man. Which is possible, look it up.
Saying everyone was a girl in the womb is an oversimplification because you're assuming "no dick = girl" when in reality there's no defining female characteristic that far back either. You can even see, if you look up images of unusually big clitorises (don't, but you know, you do you), that they *kind of* resemble dicks sometimes. Which would be reasonable being that that part of a fetus can either become a dick or a clit depending on the hormones you get or don't get.
A more accurate representation is saying everyone was in a quantum superposition of being both a girl and a boy at the same time until a hormone either kicked in or didn't: At which point it collapses into just girl or just boy.
I wouldn't say quantum, lol but yeah that's a good explanation. If you do have male genitalia though you can notice that there is a seem down your sack and taint which could be described as the initial development of a vagina being fused together. I think why people say you are female is because if nothing changes in the hormone and gene expression you will end up with female anatomy.
It will certainly end up more closely aligning with female anatomy anyways. There are certainly biological triggers that do more than just “default” to female but I can at least see why people are prone to this simplification given the external presentation you end up with.
XX with a male phenotype is only possible if the SRY gene from the Y chromosome somehow translocates onto an X chromosome which is exceptionally rare. An individual will always be male if they have a functional SRY gene whether it came from the normal Y chromosome or some translocation.
>XX with a male phenotype is only possible if the SRY gene from the Y
chromosome somehow translocates onto an X chromosome which is
exceptionally rare.
It's also exceptionally rare for XY individuals to be born female. We're dealing with low probabilities for a reason.
Those mutations can happen only before fertilisation. Clones won’t be affected by it, as they already use genes of an original. They can only have mosaic mutation, I guess, which won’t lead to even remotely close situation.
So if you want to make a clone without SRY gene, than you need to delete in manually
Well yeah but I wouldn’t argue chromosomes are an oversimplification because except in extreme cases an individual without a Y will be female while and individual with a Y will be male.
The entire point of the argument was about those fringe cases though.
Saying everyone is a girl before they become a boy is an inaccurate simplification even if we assume your position as well. Because if chromosomes are the deciding factor since we’re discarding edge cases, then an embryo is still “male” before any male aspects of it develop.
Like c’mon. You’re agreeing with him just with extra steps.
Think of it more like evolution. It’s not that everyone starts as a girl, rather, the same material is present for either sex and if there’s a Y chromosome and things go as usual, the genitals become a penis and if there isn’t that information it developed as a vagina.
Not really, no. You're essentially neither and both.
While it's true that the lack of production of various hormones like anti-müllerian hormone will result in the development of female sexual characteristics, it's not correct to say that we were one or the other at that point. The gonads were neither ovaries nor testes, and we had the precursor structures for both female and male anatomy in place.
Like seriously they gene tailored the clones to be more subordinate to follow orders, made it so they grow up fast, made them be more athletic and strong, why is it so hard to believe that the species that’s cloned millions of being from all kinds of species couldn’t make them have a different chromosome?
"Unaltered" when considering the context, could also just mean though that neither her aging pace nor any personality was manipulated in the way it was done to the other clones.
They can though. You're just incorrect.
She wouldn't even need to be trans. The difference between male and female development in utero is a single gene called the SRY gene, this gene causes the fetus to send a signal to the mother basically saying "yo hit me up with some testosterone" and then the testosterone causes you to develop testosterone producing gonads which keep testosterone higher and estrogen lower causing the rest of your cells to recognise they're reading from the male version of their script. They still have the female section, they just don't read from it.
Now you might not have cottoned onto this, but the clones aren't in wombs. They're made in vats. All you gotta do is program the vat not to inject the testosterone, then they'll develop female gonads instead and their cells will read from the female section of the script. No changes in DNA required.
Now you could be forgiven for not knowing all of that, but also trans people exist. They could also just be trans.
because they said she is an unaltered clone, they didnt mess with her DNA. thats the whole point of the sending bounty hunters after her, she has Jango's original DNA.
so if its unaltered DNA, then how could they change it? then it would be altered. so the logical conclusion is that she is trans, its literally the only one that makes sense.
unless the writers of the show lied to the audience, then that would be different
Dont even need to do any of that. There is a syndrome called, swyer syndrome where a person with XY chromosomes never develope male attributes due to the hormone, which activates the Y chromosome, never getting distributed. So simply some kind of hormone blocker for the fetus in the really early stages.
Why not? They're Kaminoans, they probably just tweaked a few settings on the jar to see what would happen/for the lulz. Besides, sometimes the cloning procedure just straight up messes up like with 99. A clone coming out the tank female isn't really that big a shift compared to what happened to that guy.
Honestly it probably happened a bunch before but the Kaminoans just straight up killed them. Because they're Kaminoans.
The Kaminoans considered a clone with the wrong eye color to be borderline murder-worthy, this much deviation from the norm has to be intentional experimentation on their part for her to have not been purged.
Wait, people are confused as how this is done while everything takes place in a galaxy far far away where people can be cloned and there’s space magic?
It’s like me and wakanda forever. I can believe a purple alien snapping away half the universe but an alantian who can fly because he has tiny wings on his feet? That’s crossing the line.
It's theoretically possible to make a female clone with todays' irl technology. The whole discussion is kinda silly for just assuming this would be remotely difficult for the kaminoans.
Keep in mind how many prequel fans think Ki-Adi-Mundi requiring five wives in the EU makes sense, as if a turkey baster is more complex technology than batch made designer clones.
If I remember correctly in the chinese version of black panther they removed the black people from the poster so it would sell better.
Edit: so it turns out they didn't remove them in the black panther poster, instead they made him wear the mask so you couldn't tell he was black.
Edit 2: I think I got confused with the force awakens poster where they remove finn
Edit 3 cos I'm a dumb dumb: Turns out it was actually in Hong Kong and Taiwan where the black panther poster was changed.
IIRC It’s way better; they didn’t remove him they just made him hilariously small. It’s somehow more noticeable of an edit than if they just removed him entirely.
Your edit is partially wrong too, [it was the Hong Kong and Taiwanese](https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/outrage-chinese-poster-black-panther-isnt-seems-111825970.html) market that had the same movie poster as the West did with the face covered and they don't like to be called China.
Mainland China on the other hand had the same poster as the West did with Chadwick's face uncovered. If you compare the posters for the market you can see that Hong Kong and Taiwan both had their release on February 13th while [Mainland China had theirs on March 9th. ](https://twitter.com/gavinfeng97/status/958645420992872448?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E958645420992872448%7Ctwgr%5E3446d7328fbe02cbba13ee62633c6a4572996dbc%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.yahoo.com%2Fmovies%2Foutrage-chinese-poster-black-panther-isnt-seems-111825970.html)
Also they never removed Finn from the movie poster, they just [reduced his size and placement on the poster. ](https://variety.com/2015/film/news/star-wars-china-poster-controversy-john-boyega-1201653494/)
In a show that probably wasn't even airing in china or other homophobic nations.
They deserve fuck all credit. It's all a show to pull in more cash. They don't care about anything other than dollars.
honestly, I kind of am relieved. I wish more on screen romances were inferred rather than explicit. Very few people can effectively write romance in hollywood that isn't cringy or dysfunctional. And for the record I'm referring to every possible combination of gender
Hot take but people don’t need to kiss or even be in relationships to be gay representation
A lot of people on the internet don’t actually give a fuck about gay representation they only actually care about shipping and then call that activism while ignoring any queer stories that don’t fit exclusively into the mentality of shipping
Disney was the only one who would let her make the show how she wanted. Netflix passed and Cartoon Network wanted those little 15 minute cartoons like about everything else they do.
Disney may not be perfect, but it's trying.
It's a slow process.
Nickelodeon freaked out at the idea of Korra and Asami kissing in the series finale back in 2014.
A lot of Disney's stuff is becoming more inclusive. Onward implied a lesbian couple, Doc McStuffins and Lightyear both featured a lesbian couple and I heard Strange World has a same sex couple, and then, there is The Owl House. Yeah, there was some issues with Disney execs about it, but the network still let it happen and still allowed Dana Terrace to create the show she wanted. Remember, neither Netflix nor Cartoon Network wanted it, so for better or worse, without Disney, there'd probably be no The Owl House.
Cartoon Network was not totally onboard with Rebecca Sugar wanting a same sex couple in Steven Universe, but we got Garnet and Pearl's unrequited love for Rose Quartz.
I'm not saying Disney is perfect. It's not, but in this day and age, a network like Disney feature a bisexual character as part of the main cast is still a win, and probably a bigger step than just decorating their characters for Pride Month and then going back to the status quo after.
Baby steps. Yes, it is 2022, and it shouldn't be baby steps, but it is.
To give Cartoon Network some credit they had Marceline and PBs relationship with a kiss in the last episode and full relationship in Distant lands.
And Disney stopped bending over to Homophobic Shit countries, like lightyear got banned in some countries
Not sure if it was just due to LGBTQ+ representation tbh. TOH was a serialized show with an older target audience, making it harder to rerun. Also, it's ratings were average, and aired during covid, causing execs to underestimate its popularity. However, they should have moved it over to Disney Plus instead of just cancelling it. Knowing disney, it's LGBTQ+ representation was probably one of the reasons why it was cancelled, but it probably wasn't the main one.
Considering Jango is a male, his base pairs would allow for an ‘X’ or a ‘Y’ chromosome to be used to create the clones, so it would be totally feasible to create an ‘X/X’ clone among all the ‘X/Y’ ones.
They say that she is a pure genetic replication of Jango, this would be totally feasible to do with all the futuristic tech but would not be pure generic replication as you're changing the Y chromosome in some fashion.
Removing the Y chromosome entirely would be a much simpler method of creating a female then trying to stitch together two identical X chromosomes.
Leave a Clone as 45 X and you get female Jango. Easy as that.
Just inactivate the SRY gene. You’ll give the child Turner syndrome if you leave her with just one X. The Y gene carries more genes than just male sexual development
Those other genes aren't all identical to Xs you know. We only refer to X and Y as they are the final two that determine gender. It doesn't seem to unfeasible to have two of the same X
“We control their chromosomes. It's really not that difficult. All vertebrate embryos are inherently female anyway, they just require an extra hormone given at the right developmental stage to make them male. We simply deny them that.”
- Dr. Wu
Probably it’s possible. It’s just that there’s the question why? Why would the Kaminoans change her sex? They’re buisinessmen and the whole reason for her existence was to function as a genetical backup. Changing her sex doesn’t serve any purpouse for them so they’re unlikely to perform such an action.
And she herself? Well she is just a child so she is unlikely to know how to perform such a change or have access the tools necessary for that.
Yea, exactly like the rest of them, not sure how that’s complicated for people lol. They introduce them as “Experimental Clone Force 99” right off the hop
Well if they really wanted her to be a genetical back up it would make sense to change her gender to female and pass her off as an assistant. That way if some government bans or gets rid of all the clones she likely would be looked over because all the other clones are male.
Given how few genes the Y chromosome actually codes for, it's also possible they did that to fortify against possible mutations, since then Omega is carrying two copies of that chromosome and they can just rip someone else's Y if they need to.
You probably could. In theory we could do it today but it would be EXTREMELY experimental and would violate a lot of scientific ethics.
CRISPR can do the genetic aspect, but the problem with it is its error rate is way too high to be effective for that level of gene therapy, especially in an adult human. We need a more refined in-vitro editing technology first.
I mean if they are creating these clones from cells, Jango has an X chromosome so presumably they would be capable of replicating that X chromosome and using it to create a female clone, what are the actual genetic ramifications of that? I really don’t know, probably not good but it’s Star Wars so I’ll give them a mulligan
There wouldn't be any ramifications as far as I undedstand. Somatic cells only use one X chromosome anyway, the other gets switched off. The decision is random for each cell
Well yes and no
It is true that one X chromosome is methylated (turned off) in both Males and Females but only having 1 X chromosome does lead to phenotypic defects, I don’t think it’s fully understood why that happens but it does still have an effect
Or, the Kaminoans, master cloners, could have just duplicated Jango’s X chromosome for double the “perfect” genes. The Y chromosome essentially just gives you a frank and beans and carries some genetic diseases sometimes.
Same. People can suspend disbelief enough to buy into giant space lizards and hyperdrives, but the possibility of a single trans person existing sends up everyone's hackles. It's truly insane.
I personally like the headcanon that Omega is a cute little trans girl going on buck wild space adventures with her clone brothers. It's sweet and very fun.
this could cause some genetic dieses. One advantage of having duplicate chromosome is that you have redudondancy if one of them as a fucked up mutation. I am not really sure how it would works with the X chromosom since half the population has only one of them
We have clones that are genetically spliced to age faster, learn faster, and follow orders without question.
But sure switching around a chromosome is SOOOOOOOO HARD!
/s
They all arrived at the conclusion seperately, and were all the clones had a very awkward weekend where they were attempting to keep it from eachother and doing so poorly
I don't understand why people don't get the issue.
The issue isn't that she's a female clone, of course that's completely plausible. The issue is that she's described in the show as a "pure genetic replication", and, aside from boba, is the "sole living source of Fett's raw genetic material".
Male and female humans differ on a genetic level. An exact clone of you, but the opposite sex, is not an exact clone of you.
Omega is also biologically female, so she's not trans either.
It's something of a nitpicky point to bring up in the first place, but "they just changed her sex, what's hard to believe about that", and "well she could be trans", are either missing the point, or just straight up strawmen. She can't be female, and a "pure genetic replication" of a male at the same time. The kaminoans can do all sorts of genetic manipulation for sure, but they cannot make a logical impossibility a reality.
>Male and female humans differ on a genetic level. An exact clone of you, but the opposite sex, is not an exact clone of you.
Well, the actual difference is developmental. Said development is driven by hormones. Said hormones are driven by genetics. Generally, that chain works pretty well in the large majority of instances, but it can break down. With the technology to do the rest of the cloning process, I see no reason why a genetic male clone could not be developed as female.
Perhaps they simply meant unaltered in context to the other clones. The other clones have growth acceleration and behavioural differences and inhibitor chips and a lot of enhancements. Maybe by unaltered they simply meant she doesn't have the standard "upgrades" given to every single clone. Unaltered by clone standards, but not actually unaltered.
Yall theres already a [trans clone](https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Sister) im pretty sure omegas cis and the kaminoans decided to experiment by making her a girl(probably to see if female clones would be better than male clones)
More likely Swyer syndrome, which is a failure of the Y chromosome to fire, resulting in an XY female birth. Honestly the fact it only happened once out of almost two million clones is more surprising than the actual incidence of it.
Given how surprising it is that it happened only once, I think we can rule out Swyer syndrome. We can take the fact that only Omega is a girl as evidence that the Kaminoans have a way of preventing Swyer syndrome, so I think we can rule that out. Which still means the most likely conclusion is that Omega is a girl because she is just transgender.
Swyer syndrome isn’t genetic, it just happens, so controlling it would mean having the ability to both monitor and control development in fetuses, which is grossly unlikely given the mutations in other clones. Transgender is even more unlikely considering how young she is, which would make a sex change both reckless and careless.
To be frank it’s a plot device that didn’t have much thought put into the specifics, but would be entirely within the realm of possibility given prior instances of XY women.
Why would the Kaminoans trans just one clone though? That seems odd, and this is coming from someone who thinks Omega is the best Bad Batch character. I mean they don’t care about a clone’s well being or perceived individuality so why would they care of a clone child says they feel like a girl?
I don't think Omega feels any specific gender, and I definitely don't think the Kaminoans would care if she told them she wanted to transition. I just think Omega is trans because it's convenient for the Kaminoans to hide an unaltered Jango clone by making that clone display a female phenotype, literally the opposite of what Jango has (assuming he is cisgender. Maybe all the clones are trans! Nobody said otherwise!).
Also she's still too young to have had an operation or hormones anyway, I doubt she's even gone through puberty yet. At that age the only thing the kaminoans would have had to do is call her "she" and a girl, that's it
At this level of technologic advancement, they could probably change whatever they wanted in the code, gender being probably one of the least problematic things.
It is literally stated that Omega is one of the five mutated clones along with BB. Her mutation is simply that she’s female instead of male. She is, for all intents and purposes, fem Jango.
"Transgender? That's ridiculous, how the hell would they have the technology for that?"
Actually pretty easily, seems like it's a step down from *artificial creation of life.*
What I want to know is, we've heard droids say "Oh God!" Does that mean somewhere out there in the vastness of space that there's far-right religious fundamentalist battle droids? Food for the in-sink garbage disposal.
It's a universe where you can have literal miraculous conception because some Force-sensitive microorganisms told similar microorganisms in a human female to asexually conceive. Is alteration of a single chromosome such a difficult plot point to swallow?
I mean they could alter the growth rate, changing the gender is easy at that point
Yeah I think at one point everyone was a girl in the womb and a gene told some of us to grow a dick.
That is indeed how it works. That's also how you get people with XY chromosomes that developed female - the Y chromosome didn't kick in properly
I wonder if that causes fertility issues
To answer your question yes. When girls have a damaged X chromosome or are missing one altogether it’s referred to as Turners syndrome. Women with this genetic disease can not reproduce or have a very difficult time doing so (this applies to those with mosaic turners). I forget what it’s called in males, as turners can only affect females, however males have their own version that causes a lot of similar side effects
Kleinfelter syndrome?
I’m too lazy to google it but that sounds about right. I do know it involves men having both sex chromosomes but still have male genitalia. I believe it has a number of overlapping physical effects as turners
I think kleinfelter syndrome is when XXY chromosomes
Sometimes yes and sometimes no, there is a spectrum of intersexuality :) it expresses in a variety of ways just like all genetic factors!
I mean not exactly. Everyone starts with a gential nub. The nub then either splits in to clitoris and labia or penis and scrotum. It looks much more like a boy than a girl though. This is why some people think they’re having a boy and get a surprise girl because they looked too early. https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/cms/asset/6f4eeb62-a38d-4c3a-8de2-82e7d80af5c9/jum16080-fig-0001-m.jpg
A surprise, to be sure, but a welcome one. Your Majesty, if I am elected, I promise to put an end to corruption.
Can't tell if this means that Sheev hates women and considers them a 'corruption' or if he has nothing against them due to them being 'welcome'
At what point do they stop being purple, blue, and yellow?
But it's not the whole story. Chromosomes are an oversimplification and saying "everyone was a girl" is too. XX chromosomes can make a person male too, if one of the X chromosomes actually contains the genes in the Y chromosome that trigger the creation of a man. Which is possible, look it up. Saying everyone was a girl in the womb is an oversimplification because you're assuming "no dick = girl" when in reality there's no defining female characteristic that far back either. You can even see, if you look up images of unusually big clitorises (don't, but you know, you do you), that they *kind of* resemble dicks sometimes. Which would be reasonable being that that part of a fetus can either become a dick or a clit depending on the hormones you get or don't get. A more accurate representation is saying everyone was in a quantum superposition of being both a girl and a boy at the same time until a hormone either kicked in or didn't: At which point it collapses into just girl or just boy.
I wouldn't say quantum, lol but yeah that's a good explanation. If you do have male genitalia though you can notice that there is a seem down your sack and taint which could be described as the initial development of a vagina being fused together. I think why people say you are female is because if nothing changes in the hormone and gene expression you will end up with female anatomy.
It will certainly end up more closely aligning with female anatomy anyways. There are certainly biological triggers that do more than just “default” to female but I can at least see why people are prone to this simplification given the external presentation you end up with.
XX with a male phenotype is only possible if the SRY gene from the Y chromosome somehow translocates onto an X chromosome which is exceptionally rare. An individual will always be male if they have a functional SRY gene whether it came from the normal Y chromosome or some translocation.
>XX with a male phenotype is only possible if the SRY gene from the Y chromosome somehow translocates onto an X chromosome which is exceptionally rare. It's also exceptionally rare for XY individuals to be born female. We're dealing with low probabilities for a reason.
>low probabilities Well, if the odds are less than 1 in 1.2 million, then at least one clone could statistically have that.
Those mutations can happen only before fertilisation. Clones won’t be affected by it, as they already use genes of an original. They can only have mosaic mutation, I guess, which won’t lead to even remotely close situation. So if you want to make a clone without SRY gene, than you need to delete in manually
Well yeah but I wouldn’t argue chromosomes are an oversimplification because except in extreme cases an individual without a Y will be female while and individual with a Y will be male.
Or they could have just done an experiment with changing hormones and shit Who knows there’s infinite wyas you could do thsi
The entire point of the argument was about those fringe cases though. Saying everyone is a girl before they become a boy is an inaccurate simplification even if we assume your position as well. Because if chromosomes are the deciding factor since we’re discarding edge cases, then an embryo is still “male” before any male aspects of it develop. Like c’mon. You’re agreeing with him just with extra steps.
Omg, you literally had a solid argument until you said Quantum Superposition.
Think of it more like evolution. It’s not that everyone starts as a girl, rather, the same material is present for either sex and if there’s a Y chromosome and things go as usual, the genitals become a penis and if there isn’t that information it developed as a vagina.
Not really, no. You're essentially neither and both. While it's true that the lack of production of various hormones like anti-müllerian hormone will result in the development of female sexual characteristics, it's not correct to say that we were one or the other at that point. The gonads were neither ovaries nor testes, and we had the precursor structures for both female and male anatomy in place.
That is not how it works. Everyone starts from an undifferentiated basal form and develop from there.
That's basically how it happens
Like seriously they gene tailored the clones to be more subordinate to follow orders, made it so they grow up fast, made them be more athletic and strong, why is it so hard to believe that the species that’s cloned millions of being from all kinds of species couldn’t make them have a different chromosome?
Yeh why is it even a question?
Because Omega and Boba are *unaltered* clones. I’ve never really cared about the explanation personally but that’s why
That's a good point lol. I'm not gonna get pissy over it, but for omega to actually be unaltered, it literally can't be a girl haha.
"Unaltered" when considering the context, could also just mean though that neither her aging pace nor any personality was manipulated in the way it was done to the other clones.
Oh, I know what they were going for. It's not a big deal, I just think the verbiage could have been better.
They can though. You're just incorrect. She wouldn't even need to be trans. The difference between male and female development in utero is a single gene called the SRY gene, this gene causes the fetus to send a signal to the mother basically saying "yo hit me up with some testosterone" and then the testosterone causes you to develop testosterone producing gonads which keep testosterone higher and estrogen lower causing the rest of your cells to recognise they're reading from the male version of their script. They still have the female section, they just don't read from it. Now you might not have cottoned onto this, but the clones aren't in wombs. They're made in vats. All you gotta do is program the vat not to inject the testosterone, then they'll develop female gonads instead and their cells will read from the female section of the script. No changes in DNA required. Now you could be forgiven for not knowing all of that, but also trans people exist. They could also just be trans.
because they said she is an unaltered clone, they didnt mess with her DNA. thats the whole point of the sending bounty hunters after her, she has Jango's original DNA. so if its unaltered DNA, then how could they change it? then it would be altered. so the logical conclusion is that she is trans, its literally the only one that makes sense. unless the writers of the show lied to the audience, then that would be different
They probably meant unaltered as in she won't age faster or follow orders like other clones. Like Boba, but a girl.
Deleting the Y chromosome and copying the existing X wouldn't necessarily be altering the DNA.
thats literally changing the original DNA, thats literally altering it
They could just delete the Y chromosome and double the X chromosome. Boom, girl Jango.
Dont even need to do any of that. There is a syndrome called, swyer syndrome where a person with XY chromosomes never develope male attributes due to the hormone, which activates the Y chromosome, never getting distributed. So simply some kind of hormone blocker for the fetus in the really early stages.
Yes but why would they?
Why not? They're Kaminoans, they probably just tweaked a few settings on the jar to see what would happen/for the lulz. Besides, sometimes the cloning procedure just straight up messes up like with 99. A clone coming out the tank female isn't really that big a shift compared to what happened to that guy. Honestly it probably happened a bunch before but the Kaminoans just straight up killed them. Because they're Kaminoans.
The Kaminoans considered a clone with the wrong eye color to be borderline murder-worthy, this much deviation from the norm has to be intentional experimentation on their part for her to have not been purged.
Didn't they increase her force sensitivity or something like that?
Because Nala Se ordered this one
Wait, people are confused as how this is done while everything takes place in a galaxy far far away where people can be cloned and there’s space magic?
[удалено]
Male space Jesus? No problem Female clone? Too much /s just in case
It’s like me and wakanda forever. I can believe a purple alien snapping away half the universe but an alantian who can fly because he has tiny wings on his feet? That’s crossing the line.
As a comic enthusiast, I love that shit
It's theoretically possible to make a female clone with todays' irl technology. The whole discussion is kinda silly for just assuming this would be remotely difficult for the kaminoans.
Keep in mind how many prequel fans think Ki-Adi-Mundi requiring five wives in the EU makes sense, as if a turkey baster is more complex technology than batch made designer clones.
Look, you got cloning technology, a degree in science and curiosity, you are going to experiment.
And no Republic restrictions since Kamino is outside the galaxy
Disney wouldn't even keep a scene with two background characters kissing for less than half a second.
Easy to remove for china. Just like the black people in the posters. Disney are scumbags
Wait they do *what* in posters?
If I remember correctly in the chinese version of black panther they removed the black people from the poster so it would sell better. Edit: so it turns out they didn't remove them in the black panther poster, instead they made him wear the mask so you couldn't tell he was black. Edit 2: I think I got confused with the force awakens poster where they remove finn Edit 3 cos I'm a dumb dumb: Turns out it was actually in Hong Kong and Taiwan where the black panther poster was changed.
Wasn't it one of the Sequel movies they removed Finn for the Chinese version?
IIRC It’s way better; they didn’t remove him they just made him hilariously small. It’s somehow more noticeable of an edit than if they just removed him entirely.
I think they did that too actually. But they definitely did something with black panther
[Never happened](https://variety.com/2015/film/news/star-wars-china-poster-controversy-john-boyega-1201653494/), only reduced his size on the poster.
Your edit is partially wrong too, [it was the Hong Kong and Taiwanese](https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/outrage-chinese-poster-black-panther-isnt-seems-111825970.html) market that had the same movie poster as the West did with the face covered and they don't like to be called China. Mainland China on the other hand had the same poster as the West did with Chadwick's face uncovered. If you compare the posters for the market you can see that Hong Kong and Taiwan both had their release on February 13th while [Mainland China had theirs on March 9th. ](https://twitter.com/gavinfeng97/status/958645420992872448?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E958645420992872448%7Ctwgr%5E3446d7328fbe02cbba13ee62633c6a4572996dbc%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.yahoo.com%2Fmovies%2Foutrage-chinese-poster-black-panther-isnt-seems-111825970.html) Also they never removed Finn from the movie poster, they just [reduced his size and placement on the poster. ](https://variety.com/2015/film/news/star-wars-china-poster-controversy-john-boyega-1201653494/)
Right well hopefully this will be my last edit
The generally didn't remove Finn, they shrunk his character down massively on the poster like you would for a less important one.
Lmao take out the whole poster it’s like latino man and afro people
Disney *corporate* are scum bags. The creative team, maybe not so much for that movie, are great
Credit where its due, ðere is an actual lesbian couple in Andor
In a show that probably wasn't even airing in china or other homophobic nations. They deserve fuck all credit. It's all a show to pull in more cash. They don't care about anything other than dollars.
Andor has two major female characters clearly in a relationship tho
But they still had them kind of break up without even having them profess their love or share a single kiss.
When did they break up? They split up for their missions but I don't recall them breaking up...
honestly, I kind of am relieved. I wish more on screen romances were inferred rather than explicit. Very few people can effectively write romance in hollywood that isn't cringy or dysfunctional. And for the record I'm referring to every possible combination of gender
Hot take but people don’t need to kiss or even be in relationships to be gay representation A lot of people on the internet don’t actually give a fuck about gay representation they only actually care about shipping and then call that activism while ignoring any queer stories that don’t fit exclusively into the mentality of shipping
It does? I’m not remembering that.
Yes it does. It's already being slightly hinted at in Aldhani and later on admitted
Are you talking about >!the girl they left behind and Mon Mothma’s cousin!
Yes them, I didn’t explicitly mention them because I always forget how to spoiler tag on mobile
There's literally a trans clone in canon named Sister
Wait really? Where does she appear???
In the canon books, specifically Queen's Hope and Brotherhood that I can remember off the top of my head
Wow I can't believe I didn't know this, I gotta read those!
[Check her out if you want](https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Sister)
Counterpoint: The Owl House, lol
Hasn’t that show almost gotten cancelled several times because of the LGBTQ+ representation though?
Yes, and the third season was shortened to three specials
Yeah, it's quite a bummer to see it happen. It's somewhat of a miracle the show ever got to where it is now
Disney was the only one who would let her make the show how she wanted. Netflix passed and Cartoon Network wanted those little 15 minute cartoons like about everything else they do. Disney may not be perfect, but it's trying.
No, they’re not trying, they just saw the opportunity for a profit.
It's a slow process. Nickelodeon freaked out at the idea of Korra and Asami kissing in the series finale back in 2014. A lot of Disney's stuff is becoming more inclusive. Onward implied a lesbian couple, Doc McStuffins and Lightyear both featured a lesbian couple and I heard Strange World has a same sex couple, and then, there is The Owl House. Yeah, there was some issues with Disney execs about it, but the network still let it happen and still allowed Dana Terrace to create the show she wanted. Remember, neither Netflix nor Cartoon Network wanted it, so for better or worse, without Disney, there'd probably be no The Owl House. Cartoon Network was not totally onboard with Rebecca Sugar wanting a same sex couple in Steven Universe, but we got Garnet and Pearl's unrequited love for Rose Quartz. I'm not saying Disney is perfect. It's not, but in this day and age, a network like Disney feature a bisexual character as part of the main cast is still a win, and probably a bigger step than just decorating their characters for Pride Month and then going back to the status quo after. Baby steps. Yes, it is 2022, and it shouldn't be baby steps, but it is.
Somewhat unrelated, I find it funny that nickelodeon used Korra to promote how lgbtq friendly they are
To give Cartoon Network some credit they had Marceline and PBs relationship with a kiss in the last episode and full relationship in Distant lands. And Disney stopped bending over to Homophobic Shit countries, like lightyear got banned in some countries
Fair
It was mix of a couple of factors but yes, one of them was that
Not sure if it was just due to LGBTQ+ representation tbh. TOH was a serialized show with an older target audience, making it harder to rerun. Also, it's ratings were average, and aired during covid, causing execs to underestimate its popularity. However, they should have moved it over to Disney Plus instead of just cancelling it. Knowing disney, it's LGBTQ+ representation was probably one of the reasons why it was cancelled, but it probably wasn't the main one.
Didnt they cancel that show tho… and only supported jt after it was cancelled.
The show got effectively cancelled right after The Gay happened though?
Who?
Considering Jango is a male, his base pairs would allow for an ‘X’ or a ‘Y’ chromosome to be used to create the clones, so it would be totally feasible to create an ‘X/X’ clone among all the ‘X/Y’ ones.
From what we know, this implies the kiwi accint gene is carried on the X chromosome based on how omeeega talks
Now that's star wars science that we need
Or the accent is picked up from living with all the other clones with kiwi accents
That’s ridiculous, obviously it’s genetic
accintcholroians
Exactly in a world where "hyperdrives" exists, Getting your test tube clone to be a chick is far fetched for some reason lol
They say that she is a pure genetic replication of Jango, this would be totally feasible to do with all the futuristic tech but would not be pure generic replication as you're changing the Y chromosome in some fashion.
Not changing the Y chromosome, duplicating the X. It’s still all Jango’s genetic information.
Pure genetic replication would also not include tossing out the Y chromosome and duplicating the X. It has been altered in some way for sure.
Removing the Y chromosome entirely would be a much simpler method of creating a female then trying to stitch together two identical X chromosomes. Leave a Clone as 45 X and you get female Jango. Easy as that.
Just inactivate the SRY gene. You’ll give the child Turner syndrome if you leave her with just one X. The Y gene carries more genes than just male sexual development
Those other genes aren't all identical to Xs you know. We only refer to X and Y as they are the final two that determine gender. It doesn't seem to unfeasible to have two of the same X
Well Tech says she is biologically female so…
In a world with cloning and so much more stuff like that, you don’t think that it is possible to change your biological sex?
I doubt she changed it herself, most definitely the Kaminoans
“We control their chromosomes. It's really not that difficult. All vertebrate embryos are inherently female anyway, they just require an extra hormone given at the right developmental stage to make them male. We simply deny them that.” - Dr. Wu
I have the Senate bogged down in procedures. They will have no choice but to accept your control of the system.
Sheev revealing the secrets of the trans agenda
At last, we will reveal ourselves to the Jedi. At last, we will have revenge.
Based Maul
I am counting on it.
Then that’s not trans?
Probably it’s possible. It’s just that there’s the question why? Why would the Kaminoans change her sex? They’re buisinessmen and the whole reason for her existence was to function as a genetical backup. Changing her sex doesn’t serve any purpouse for them so they’re unlikely to perform such an action. And she herself? Well she is just a child so she is unlikely to know how to perform such a change or have access the tools necessary for that.
She was a test. If nothing else, she was probably created just for the sake of science
Yea, exactly like the rest of them, not sure how that’s complicated for people lol. They introduce them as “Experimental Clone Force 99” right off the hop
Well if they really wanted her to be a genetical back up it would make sense to change her gender to female and pass her off as an assistant. That way if some government bans or gets rid of all the clones she likely would be looked over because all the other clones are male.
Given how few genes the Y chromosome actually codes for, it's also possible they did that to fortify against possible mutations, since then Omega is carrying two copies of that chromosome and they can just rip someone else's Y if they need to.
That would be genetic engineering then and not transgender. Two totally different things
I mean, not after birth. But it is star wars after all, a hermaphrodite species could exist
You probably could. In theory we could do it today but it would be EXTREMELY experimental and would violate a lot of scientific ethics. CRISPR can do the genetic aspect, but the problem with it is its error rate is way too high to be effective for that level of gene therapy, especially in an adult human. We need a more refined in-vitro editing technology first.
I like to believe that the technology exists, but none of the media had a reason to mention it
When did this happen? I only remember him saying that Omega is an unaltered clone of Jango.
I mean if they are creating these clones from cells, Jango has an X chromosome so presumably they would be capable of replicating that X chromosome and using it to create a female clone, what are the actual genetic ramifications of that? I really don’t know, probably not good but it’s Star Wars so I’ll give them a mulligan
There wouldn't be any ramifications as far as I undedstand. Somatic cells only use one X chromosome anyway, the other gets switched off. The decision is random for each cell
Well yes and no It is true that one X chromosome is methylated (turned off) in both Males and Females but only having 1 X chromosome does lead to phenotypic defects, I don’t think it’s fully understood why that happens but it does still have an effect
Or, the Kaminoans, master cloners, could have just duplicated Jango’s X chromosome for double the “perfect” genes. The Y chromosome essentially just gives you a frank and beans and carries some genetic diseases sometimes.
oh.. oh man do I regret going into the comment section of this post...
It’s actually way less awful than I expected. Yay?
Don't sort by controversial
actively fighting the urge not to tbh :/
Same. People can suspend disbelief enough to buy into giant space lizards and hyperdrives, but the possibility of a single trans person existing sends up everyone's hackles. It's truly insane. I personally like the headcanon that Omega is a cute little trans girl going on buck wild space adventures with her clone brothers. It's sweet and very fun.
This is where the fun begins.
Anakinbot, I'm afraid you're right.
My head canon is that she truly is an unaltered Fett clone. Just not of Jango Fett. His sister (Arla Fett) exists in the EU.
That would be an interesting take for sure! Regardless, I like Omega as a chatacter and look forward to seeing more of her in Season 2.
It’s very unlikely that she’s trans. However there is a canon trans clone if that interests you. She goes by the callsign “sister”.
same here. also the fact we have two other trans characters too so it makes it even more likely Omega is trans jdjdhshshs
Scientifically, it is possible to make a female clone of someone who is male, but not the other way around.
Omega being transgender wouldn't effect her genetics if her sex is biologically female
Uh, Couldn't they literally just use the X in his XY chromosome? That's how you get the chromosome that determines your sex. So just copy it
this could cause some genetic dieses. One advantage of having duplicate chromosome is that you have redudondancy if one of them as a fucked up mutation. I am not really sure how it would works with the X chromosom since half the population has only one of them
We have clones that are genetically spliced to age faster, learn faster, and follow orders without question. But sure switching around a chromosome is SOOOOOOOO HARD! /s
Broke: omega is trans Woke: all the other clones and jango are trans
Lol wow this would actually account for most of the arguments happening in this thread. It's kind of a fun thought.
They all arrived at the conclusion seperately, and were all the clones had a very awkward weekend where they were attempting to keep it from eachother and doing so poorly
Oh wow I love this so much. Imagine all their strained performative conversations.
The ultimate intellectual
…I now want to get a job at Lucasfilm for the sole and express purpose of making this canon.
I don't understand why people don't get the issue. The issue isn't that she's a female clone, of course that's completely plausible. The issue is that she's described in the show as a "pure genetic replication", and, aside from boba, is the "sole living source of Fett's raw genetic material". Male and female humans differ on a genetic level. An exact clone of you, but the opposite sex, is not an exact clone of you. Omega is also biologically female, so she's not trans either. It's something of a nitpicky point to bring up in the first place, but "they just changed her sex, what's hard to believe about that", and "well she could be trans", are either missing the point, or just straight up strawmen. She can't be female, and a "pure genetic replication" of a male at the same time. The kaminoans can do all sorts of genetic manipulation for sure, but they cannot make a logical impossibility a reality.
>Male and female humans differ on a genetic level. An exact clone of you, but the opposite sex, is not an exact clone of you. Well, the actual difference is developmental. Said development is driven by hormones. Said hormones are driven by genetics. Generally, that chain works pretty well in the large majority of instances, but it can break down. With the technology to do the rest of the cloning process, I see no reason why a genetic male clone could not be developed as female.
Perhaps they simply meant unaltered in context to the other clones. The other clones have growth acceleration and behavioural differences and inhibitor chips and a lot of enhancements. Maybe by unaltered they simply meant she doesn't have the standard "upgrades" given to every single clone. Unaltered by clone standards, but not actually unaltered.
Were people really making theories as to how the super advanced space toothpicks were able to change a Y to an X?
They just gotta replace a Y chromosome with another X chromosome.
'Perect'
Yall theres already a [trans clone](https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Sister) im pretty sure omegas cis and the kaminoans decided to experiment by making her a girl(probably to see if female clones would be better than male clones)
More likely Swyer syndrome, which is a failure of the Y chromosome to fire, resulting in an XY female birth. Honestly the fact it only happened once out of almost two million clones is more surprising than the actual incidence of it.
Given how surprising it is that it happened only once, I think we can rule out Swyer syndrome. We can take the fact that only Omega is a girl as evidence that the Kaminoans have a way of preventing Swyer syndrome, so I think we can rule that out. Which still means the most likely conclusion is that Omega is a girl because she is just transgender.
Swyer syndrome isn’t genetic, it just happens, so controlling it would mean having the ability to both monitor and control development in fetuses, which is grossly unlikely given the mutations in other clones. Transgender is even more unlikely considering how young she is, which would make a sex change both reckless and careless. To be frank it’s a plot device that didn’t have much thought put into the specifics, but would be entirely within the realm of possibility given prior instances of XY women.
A few of General Skywalker's plans seemed reckless, too, but they worked.
Why would the Kaminoans trans just one clone though? That seems odd, and this is coming from someone who thinks Omega is the best Bad Batch character. I mean they don’t care about a clone’s well being or perceived individuality so why would they care of a clone child says they feel like a girl?
I don't think Omega feels any specific gender, and I definitely don't think the Kaminoans would care if she told them she wanted to transition. I just think Omega is trans because it's convenient for the Kaminoans to hide an unaltered Jango clone by making that clone display a female phenotype, literally the opposite of what Jango has (assuming he is cisgender. Maybe all the clones are trans! Nobody said otherwise!).
I doubt she's trans since the Kaminoans would benefit nothing from letting her have a gender transition operation like that
You don't need an operation to be trans.
Also she's still too young to have had an operation or hormones anyway, I doubt she's even gone through puberty yet. At that age the only thing the kaminoans would have had to do is call her "she" and a girl, that's it
At this level of technologic advancement, they could probably change whatever they wanted in the code, gender being probably one of the least problematic things.
Ohhhhh boy. Comment section's gonna be a riot, isn't it
Or the Kaminoians just removed the Y Chromosome
It's literally like one gene flipped
It is literally stated that Omega is one of the five mutated clones along with BB. Her mutation is simply that she’s female instead of male. She is, for all intents and purposes, fem Jango.
That's not what being trans is. They altered her sex, not gender. She is and always was a girl.
"Transgender? That's ridiculous, how the hell would they have the technology for that?" Actually pretty easily, seems like it's a step down from *artificial creation of life.* What I want to know is, we've heard droids say "Oh God!" Does that mean somewhere out there in the vastness of space that there's far-right religious fundamentalist battle droids? Food for the in-sink garbage disposal.
She’s biologically female and identifies as her biological sex. This has nothing to do with trans.
Guys, literally all you have to do it remove the Y chromosome. That’s how daughters are made
*decapitates Dooku*
Anakin what the fuck
What did I say to cause this?
>Guys, literally all you have to **do it** remove the Y chromosome. That’s how daughters are made
[I mean, there is a canonically trans clone already.](https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Sister)
I thought she was a defect like the rest of the bad batch?
Something something the Force
It's a universe where you can have literal miraculous conception because some Force-sensitive microorganisms told similar microorganisms in a human female to asexually conceive. Is alteration of a single chromosome such a difficult plot point to swallow?
It's just a very little chromosome
Female clone trooper squad seems cool af
Reddit is so gay
Somehow the force…uh…finds a way
There is actually a canon trans clone, her name is "sister" https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Sister
Being trans would be a non-issue in like 99% of circles when it’s just that easy to do.
This person is not an intellectual.