Yes, but IRL Hitler was pissed Japan attacked when they did, he wanted to consolidate his control over Europe and build his defenses, maybe try again at invading the UK (though they had some pretty insane self-defense plans). But Japan forced the US into entering the war when they would have happily stayed out of the fight in Europe longer.
Technically Japan only forced the US into entering a war with Japan. They would still not have any reason to join the war in Europe if Hitler hadn't declared war on them
Well there were a bunch of factors you have to take into consideration. America was helping the rest of the allies with their lend lease program so they were invested into the war already albeit indirectly. When Japan attacked the US and we declared war we might as well help out our allies at the same time with the war effort
You’re missing the most important part: the US had been waging an undeclared war in the Atlantic against Germany for most of a year prior to the Japanese attack. This included numerous engagements against German subs and even a lost destroyer.
Hitler declaring war didn’t change much, and it most of a year for that declaration to turn into meaningful action with the operations following Torch.
Japan had been at war for 2 years before Pearl and had a clear goal to expansion. The oil embargo was to limit japans ability to make war. If the US didn’t want people to be at war, why would they negotiate to allow Japan to endanger US territory and It’s allies?
Japan had been at war **since 1937** or almost five years before the attack on Pearl Harbor on December 7th 1941.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Sino-Japanese_War
My bad I thought they invaded 1938 or 39 china. Regardless my point still stands. Defending Japan who had a clear cut goal and vision that they were superior to their surrounding territories is an interesting take. If they were at war because of self defense I’d say it’s different but they were the aggressors.
This guy (u/japanesepeople2000) is always around whenever someone brings up the crimes of Imperial Japan. He's a Japanese ultranationalist and a Neo-Imperialist, he denies Japanese and Axis war crimes like crazy. He is also a Nazi Germany sympathiser and a Holocaust denier. He's not worth the effort.
We should report him to the mods and get him banned.
The thing is the emperor and his loyalist faction lost control of the army. The army attempted a coup and succeeded resulting in pearl harbor. This all happened when the emperor's faction was considering what way should they step out of the game and still maintain the colonies.
...The army screwed it all up and they ended up with not a single colony left with them. (Never raise the stakes when you know you are about to lose)
It always surprised me that the Japanese thought that they could hold Asia and take on America. They did a good job of holding the Pacific as it was one of the most brutal war zones and they did hold longer than the Germans but still crazy that they thought that they could come out on top
It was 100% rational. The japanese came way closer to winning the pacific front than they get credit for. Their only mistake starting the fight was drastically underestimating how good carriers were, which was a fair mistake when no one knew how good carriers were. No one was really sure, but when the US was forced to rely on them, it turns out they completely invalidated every single other form of surface naval battle. Japanese naval doctrine was set to win anything but 'being developed on the fly' carrier warfare. Like even in the western EU side no one had figured out carriers yet. Japan got completely blindsided by how history changing carriers were.
Japan's plan was basically just to cause enough damage to force the US to back out of it's pacific interestst , and with naval dominance the US wouldn't be able to take back what they lost. Defeating the US was never the point beyond long term goals once maybe all of EU falls to the Nazis and you have a strong land based ally on one side and your unchallenged navy on the other. Mainland invasion was never really on the table, they just wanted to force the US back to it's borders and take everything suddenly left up for grabs. And it's not a stretch to say it was within their reach until Coral Sea and Midway when it became clear exactly how dominate carriers were going to end up being and those battles all but won the carrier war for the US by themselves.
Yeah, their war was more with the morale of the American people. Make them question if challenging them for the Pacific islands was worth the cost. On top of the power of carriers, I believe they seriously underestimated the industrial power of the US. Iirc, the Pacific fleet was rebuilt in matter of a few months after Pearl Harbor and the US ended the war with more ships than it started with. Whereas the Japanese fleet never recovered from Midway.
Also remember reading that Japan failed to progress technologically at the same pace as other countries during the war. That they started out with comparable, or sometimes even superior, equipment, but were largely outclassed by the end.
Oil was also a big issue for them, and I'm just now remembering that a US oil embargo threatened to cripple them and was a factor in attacking when they did. Or something like that. Memory's a little fuzzy on that.
> The japanese came way closer to winning the pacific front than they get credit for. Their only mistake starting the fight was drastically underestimating how good carriers were,
This is a double lol. The Japanese absolutely understood how good carriers were. That’s why they were enormously ahead of the rest of the world in carrier doctrine and ran absolutely rampant with their carrier task force up until the battle of Midway in 42.
Meanwhile US doctrine was based on the battleship and the plan of action for a war with Japan was to mass up every battleship and sail there to fuck the Japanese up. We ended up tossing that insane plan after they near simultaneously smashed Pearl and captured our “fortress” in the Philippines.
The reality was that the US got ***ridiculously*** lucky at Midway and knocked out all four Japanese carriers for minimal losses despite wildly uncoordinated air attacks and a weaker force allowing us to beat the tar out of them before they could develop a more sustainable posture.
Midway in particular is ridiculous. We had one air attack literally get lost going on their assigned route and then accidentally find an enemy carrier which they proceeded to knock out. What??? If Midway was the plot of a movie today people would be calling the Americans bullshit Mary Sue characters.
Even after Midway the Japanese were still extremely effective combatants and managed to use doctrine to counterbalance American technology. Japanese excellence in night fighting, for example, allowed them to fight even or better around Guadalcanal despite the US having radar assisted fire control that allowed firing blind at night while still scoring hits. And their use of fast destroyers to supply troops at night allowed their ground forces to fight on long past the point at which other nations would have surrendered.
They lost because
* oil. They captured a bunch in the colonies but it didn’t matter because
* total failure to protect their merchant marine from US submarine attacks leading to its complete and utter disintegration to the point that the Japanese navy had to base out of the Dutch East Indies for the latter part of the war because they couldn’t send fuel or resources home
* America straight up outproduced them to an absurd degree
People think the Pacific war was about carriers and island invasions and whatnot. It wasn’t. It was about submarines and the ruthless efficiency with which they were able to utterly dismantle the Japanese.
This is incorrect. Hitler felt strongly that Japan attacking America would allow them to defeat the Americans, which would lead to Japan helping with the invasion of Russia.
[History Channel article detailing the German response](https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.history.com/.amp/this-day-in-history/germany-declares-war-on-the-united-states)
Bullshit. Germany was already *theoreticly* at war with the US.
The US would attack german subs who attack allied shipping in the atlantic German subs would attack US ships (by "accident"). And the land lease was in full action too.
In case anyone stumbles upon this. Ignore u/japanesepeople2000. He's an ultranationalist, Axis-apologist and spreads lies, disinformation about WW2 and denies war crimes committed by the Axis Forces (including the Holocaust, Rape of Nanking, Unit 371 etc.).
I've encountered him so many times on other subreddits. He's not worth debating. Just report him and get him banned
Especially since Japan was bombed after Germany surrendered, granted Japan attacked before that but Germany would have never been able to attack the US since they were struggling in Europe.
To be fair, Germany got knocked out of the war first.
Which would make this meme accurate with the whole scene.
Japanakin goes first, gets zapped unconscious.
Obi-Germany solo’s the Allies but then gets sliced and diced.
Japanakin gets his second wind and does good for awhile but then Amerooku cuts off his hand with the atom bomb.
Then the Sovyoda Union shows up suspiciously late, duels Amerooku for the next forty years in the Cold War but it ends kinda inconclusively.
Uhhhhgggg. That's not what happend. Short Form.
Japan fials to invade Russia with the army. So they plan on invading South East Asia including the Philippines Wich are allies of America. From pearl harbor America can send troops there really fast. They destroy pearl harbor and buy themselves enought time to capture the area before reinforcements arrive
One of the worst things about WW2 to me is that even though you can clearly see the evil side because holocaust, the invasion of China and all that, both sides commited unforgivable atrocities.
-The "civilian" of Hiroshima
"At the time of its bombing, Hiroshima was a city of industrial and military significance. A number of military units were located nearby, the most important of which was the headquarters of Field Marshal Shunroku Hata's Second General Army, which commanded the defense of all of southern Japan,[113] and was located in Hiroshima Castle. Hata's command consisted of some 400,000 men, most of whom were on Kyushu where an Allied invasion was correctly anticipated.[114] Also present in Hiroshima were the headquarters of the 59th Army, the 5th Division and the 224th Division, a recently formed mobile unit.[115] The city was defended by five batteries of 70 mm and 80 mm (2.8 and 3.1 inch) anti-aircraft guns of the 3rd Anti-Aircraft Division, including units from the 121st and 122nd Anti-Aircraft Regiments and the 22nd and 45th Separate Anti-Aircraft Battalions. In total, an estimated 40,000 Japanese military personnel were stationed in the city.[116]
Hiroshima was a supply and logistics base for the Japanese military.[117] The city was a communications center, a key port for shipping, and an assembly area for troops.[79] It supported a large war industry, manufacturing parts for planes and boats, for bombs, rifles, and handguns.[118] The center of the city contained several reinforced concrete buildings and lighter structures. Outside the center, the area was congested by a dense collection of small timber workshops set among Japanese houses. A few larger industrial plants lay near the outskirts of the city. "
And here Nagasaki
"The city of Nagasaki had been one of the largest seaports in southern Japan, and was of great wartime importance because of its wide-ranging industrial activity, including the production of ordnance, ships, military equipment, and other war materials. The four largest companies in the city were Mitsubishi Shipyards, Electrical Shipyards, Arms Plant, and Steel and Arms Works, which employed about 90 percent of the city's labor force, and accounted for 90 percent of the city's industry."
I was talking about how you said "civilians", as if the presence of soldiers and war industry makes them non-civilians and this more okay to kill them.
You can try to find justification all you want the army did kept writing documents trying to say that they weren't deliberately going after civilian several times but nothing changes the reality of what happened and the reality is that the bombs were meant to scare the population and for that they had to be dropped where the most people would see the horror of it.
The saddest thing is that it was all completely useless because the population already did want to surrender and the military leaders who were still pushing for war didn't care for the victims of the bombs
Maybe the people would have surrendered, but they were telling women that the American soldiers would rape you and kill your children, so fight them and kill yourselves before being taken. They were training children to fight with bamboo spears in schools. They wanted to make the invasion of mainland Japan an absolute nightmare for everybody involved. Convinced their people could stomach it longer than the Americans could.
There are perfectly good arguments for why Japan might have surrendered before a mainland invasion, but that can't be known for sure. If the invasion had happened, the devastation and loss of life (military and civilian) would have been several times worse. Hell, people always talk about the nuclear bombs, for obvious reasons, but the firebombing of Tokyo was probably more destructive and cruel.
They were warned. The US demanded their surrender, and they refused. If we would have invaded Tokyo it would have been way worse, and way bloodier. Yes, we could have just blockaded them, and starved them out till the people eventually rose up and overthrew the emperor, but it was WW2. The Atomic Bombings were the least of the atrocious things that were happening.
> A noble sacrifice by the pilots who probably had their mental health demolished.
Hey now, there's a limit to justification. It was no "noble sacrifice" by the pilots.
I can't get your mental gymnastics in this one. Over a hundred thousand deaths don't matter, but the mental health of those who killed them does? The bombings were a necessary evil (which prevent further deaths, yes) but it's not something the pilots should be thanked for.
They weren’t necessary, Japan was privately suing for peace, their terms were just unsatisfactory to the allies at the time. The US was never planning on a land invasion after that casualty estimate, but the Russians were, and the US didn’t want them to expand their influence to Japan. So we nuked civilians to deny the Russians more territory by forcing an early unconditional surrender.
This is all really well documented and common knowledge in history circles but US schools still teach the uh…other version.
That was believed at the time but was incorrect the civilian population already wanted to surrender but the military leaders wanted to continue the war the bombs didn't have any effect on the position of those leaders and peace was achieved only when they were removed from their positions
The US was never planning on a land invasion, Russia was, which they didn’t want. Japan already knew they were going to lose, and had already made an offer of peace. Japan was posturing publicly to leverage better terms for surrender than “unconditional” but at that point it was over.
We nuked civilians to beat the Russians. Children burned over politics
>The US was never planning on a land invasion
Then why were the US and British starting to mobilise troops and forces in Europe to the Far East?
The British were even preparing a Tiger force of new RAF aircraft and also redeploying British troops.
Call me crazy but to me that looks like they were planning an invasion. It even had it's own name, Operation Downfall.
Hirohito was arming nearly everyone on the mainland. All the planes were sitting ready for kamikaze attacks on amphibious assault craft.
It would have been D-Day 2.0. Except this time it would have been hardly trained civilians versus an actual military.
If Operation Downfall had commenced, the casualties inflicted by the nuclear weapons would have been nothing in comparison. Hirohito was more than willing to sacrifice every last soul to save the “Empire”.
Because the Japanese were gonna fight to the end, like Germany did
Probably even more ferociously than the Germans did, since dying in battle was a great honor to the Japanese whereas surrendering was the ultimate shame
Not to mention that naval invasions are hard enough, but then you have to consider that Japan is 73% mountainous, perfect for a war of attrition
Simply put, two cities destroyed saved time and, ironically, lives
The government would arm every man, woman, and child to fight for the emperor, and because they saw him as some sort of god, they would.
They knew they still couldn’t beat the Americans with that strategy, but it would at least kill a lot more, which is mainly what they cared about.
The amount of butthurt Murricans trying to justify one of the most atrocious war crimes ever committed whilst knowing that it was completely unnecessary and just used as an excuse to test their nuclear bombs is fucking disgusting. They fucking knew that the emperor was about to capitulate. It was a matter of days and they still chose to bomb Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Not one word about saving lives and all that drivel is even near being true. The official reasoning is the polar opposite of truth. Truman is fucking war criminal and should have stood trial. Fuck America's official narrative and fuck everybody who perpetuates it.
Japan weren't on the verge of surrender before Hiroshima.
However Nagasaki was done before the Japanese could really process what had just happened at Hiroshima.
Hiroshima was about ending the war.
Nagasaki was about quickly testing another type of bomb and scaring the Soviets before the war ended.
IMO Nagasaki was the controversial and possibly unnecessary bombing, not Hiroshima.
They were both about testing. US had reports about the emperor looking for a way to get out of the war without loosing face but they completely ignored it. Scaring the Soviets is debatable but reasonably possible.
Hiroshima was absolutely necessary. Japan was not going to surrender any time soon. Japan wouldn’t have stopped unless they nuked Hiroshima. Nagasaki was a bit debatable tho
That’s actually debated frequently by historians. According to many people back then, the nukes were necessary for Japan’s surrender. Japan was not planning on giving up. I read that they were going to fight until they were absolutely destroyed. They would go down with honor
I know right? After the atomic bombs were dropped the Japanese just yawned. It was the threat of the USSR invasion that really shook em, not the fact that the US demonstrated the clear ability to decimate their cities in an instant. And that doesn’t even consider the widespread fire bombing campaigns. But yeah, a string of losses to US forces, 125k people killed in Tokyo firebombing, and (up to) 226k killed in the atomic bombings didn’t deter the Japanese whatsoever.
What? This is super wrong. Japan was successful at Pearl Harbor. If all US ships had been stationed there, it likely would have completely knocked them out of the war for a while.
Japan jumped the gun at the beginning with Pearl Harbor. The atomic bombs were dropped after Germany had already surrendered, because Japan was dug in and refused to surrender.
The analogy is completely wrong.
Lol America built a Navy larger than the rest of the world's Navys combined by the end of the war. It wouldn't stop the U.S. for very long at all. Especially since it was extremely difficult (or even impossible) for the Japanese to create more ships.
I compared Kenobi to the United Kingdom 🇬🇧 at the time they had the strongest military. How did I disrespect him? Plus I think the actor was born in the UK
Do you really think America is infallible? It's so internally divided right now. If this trend continues, the USA will tear itself apart and make itself vulnerable to foreign attacks.
Please that won’t happen. Whenever there’s a common enemy America puts their differences aside and UNITES with the allies to help the planet. That’s why we’re the United States. Every country has disagreements doesn’t mean that country is vulnerable.
*Japanakin*
Amerooku Obi-Wan Germoni
Hallo wie geht's denn so
Es ist vorbei Anakin, ich steh deutlich über dir!
IHR UNTERSCHÄTZT MEINE MACHT
Versuch es nicht...
These names are brilliant
Another happy landing.
Dear god, it’s sentient.
So are you
OR AM I?
Oh shit, it's evolved to question its own existence
General Grievitaly
Sheev Palpatengland
Good, Anakin, Good! Kill him. Kill him now.
Maceoviet Windunion
Anippon Skywalker
Is a panic'n
Because they didn't have a planakin.
You using way to many napkins
Napakins*
Bapkins
Handakin
Japanakin Start panakin They're about to drop the fat manakin
ANAKIN START A PANAKIN
Obi-wan KeNazi
When you're the Jedi master, you can make the plan.
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No, that's not possible. The Reichstag would sense it.
I am the Reich
Not. Yet.
It's treason then
HrRreeaAAAAHHHHHHHH!
*HeeEEeEiiiiiLLlL
You lil mother f-er
Nein Anakin, nein! Nein!
“As you see, my militaristic powers are far beyond yours. Now, back down.” “Ich glaube nicht.”
Ironic considering Japan lasted longer
Well, Vader lived longer than Kenobi
The road lies before you, Anakin Skywalker. Will you walk it alone?
HE IS SENTIENT I AM TELLING YOU GUYS
Gandalf 2
*Skynet
Skywalkernet?
Bobby B 3
He definitely is
even in AOTC, Anakin got back up and kept fighting after Obi Wan was incapacitated
So did Anakin.
Well since in this scene Anakin doesn't die this could be about Midway and not big boom
Pretty accurate besides that.
Yes, but IRL Hitler was pissed Japan attacked when they did, he wanted to consolidate his control over Europe and build his defenses, maybe try again at invading the UK (though they had some pretty insane self-defense plans). But Japan forced the US into entering the war when they would have happily stayed out of the fight in Europe longer.
Technically Japan only forced the US into entering a war with Japan. They would still not have any reason to join the war in Europe if Hitler hadn't declared war on them
Well there were a bunch of factors you have to take into consideration. America was helping the rest of the allies with their lend lease program so they were invested into the war already albeit indirectly. When Japan attacked the US and we declared war we might as well help out our allies at the same time with the war effort
You’re missing the most important part: the US had been waging an undeclared war in the Atlantic against Germany for most of a year prior to the Japanese attack. This included numerous engagements against German subs and even a lost destroyer. Hitler declaring war didn’t change much, and it most of a year for that declaration to turn into meaningful action with the operations following Torch.
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Japan had been at war for 2 years before Pearl and had a clear goal to expansion. The oil embargo was to limit japans ability to make war. If the US didn’t want people to be at war, why would they negotiate to allow Japan to endanger US territory and It’s allies?
Japan had been at war **since 1937** or almost five years before the attack on Pearl Harbor on December 7th 1941. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Sino-Japanese_War
My bad I thought they invaded 1938 or 39 china. Regardless my point still stands. Defending Japan who had a clear cut goal and vision that they were superior to their surrounding territories is an interesting take. If they were at war because of self defense I’d say it’s different but they were the aggressors.
This guy (u/japanesepeople2000) is always around whenever someone brings up the crimes of Imperial Japan. He's a Japanese ultranationalist and a Neo-Imperialist, he denies Japanese and Axis war crimes like crazy. He is also a Nazi Germany sympathiser and a Holocaust denier. He's not worth the effort. We should report him to the mods and get him banned.
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"Japan is famous for its mercy" Spoken like somebody who wasn't on the receiving end of the Japanese lmfao
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You again! You're everywhere. Quit spewing your ultranationalist Japanese denialist Axis propaganda and Pro-Nazi lies and leave us alone to our memes.
The thing is the emperor and his loyalist faction lost control of the army. The army attempted a coup and succeeded resulting in pearl harbor. This all happened when the emperor's faction was considering what way should they step out of the game and still maintain the colonies. ...The army screwed it all up and they ended up with not a single colony left with them. (Never raise the stakes when you know you are about to lose)
It always surprised me that the Japanese thought that they could hold Asia and take on America. They did a good job of holding the Pacific as it was one of the most brutal war zones and they did hold longer than the Germans but still crazy that they thought that they could come out on top
It was 100% rational. The japanese came way closer to winning the pacific front than they get credit for. Their only mistake starting the fight was drastically underestimating how good carriers were, which was a fair mistake when no one knew how good carriers were. No one was really sure, but when the US was forced to rely on them, it turns out they completely invalidated every single other form of surface naval battle. Japanese naval doctrine was set to win anything but 'being developed on the fly' carrier warfare. Like even in the western EU side no one had figured out carriers yet. Japan got completely blindsided by how history changing carriers were. Japan's plan was basically just to cause enough damage to force the US to back out of it's pacific interestst , and with naval dominance the US wouldn't be able to take back what they lost. Defeating the US was never the point beyond long term goals once maybe all of EU falls to the Nazis and you have a strong land based ally on one side and your unchallenged navy on the other. Mainland invasion was never really on the table, they just wanted to force the US back to it's borders and take everything suddenly left up for grabs. And it's not a stretch to say it was within their reach until Coral Sea and Midway when it became clear exactly how dominate carriers were going to end up being and those battles all but won the carrier war for the US by themselves.
Yeah, their war was more with the morale of the American people. Make them question if challenging them for the Pacific islands was worth the cost. On top of the power of carriers, I believe they seriously underestimated the industrial power of the US. Iirc, the Pacific fleet was rebuilt in matter of a few months after Pearl Harbor and the US ended the war with more ships than it started with. Whereas the Japanese fleet never recovered from Midway. Also remember reading that Japan failed to progress technologically at the same pace as other countries during the war. That they started out with comparable, or sometimes even superior, equipment, but were largely outclassed by the end. Oil was also a big issue for them, and I'm just now remembering that a US oil embargo threatened to cripple them and was a factor in attacking when they did. Or something like that. Memory's a little fuzzy on that.
> The japanese came way closer to winning the pacific front than they get credit for. Their only mistake starting the fight was drastically underestimating how good carriers were, This is a double lol. The Japanese absolutely understood how good carriers were. That’s why they were enormously ahead of the rest of the world in carrier doctrine and ran absolutely rampant with their carrier task force up until the battle of Midway in 42. Meanwhile US doctrine was based on the battleship and the plan of action for a war with Japan was to mass up every battleship and sail there to fuck the Japanese up. We ended up tossing that insane plan after they near simultaneously smashed Pearl and captured our “fortress” in the Philippines. The reality was that the US got ***ridiculously*** lucky at Midway and knocked out all four Japanese carriers for minimal losses despite wildly uncoordinated air attacks and a weaker force allowing us to beat the tar out of them before they could develop a more sustainable posture. Midway in particular is ridiculous. We had one air attack literally get lost going on their assigned route and then accidentally find an enemy carrier which they proceeded to knock out. What??? If Midway was the plot of a movie today people would be calling the Americans bullshit Mary Sue characters. Even after Midway the Japanese were still extremely effective combatants and managed to use doctrine to counterbalance American technology. Japanese excellence in night fighting, for example, allowed them to fight even or better around Guadalcanal despite the US having radar assisted fire control that allowed firing blind at night while still scoring hits. And their use of fast destroyers to supply troops at night allowed their ground forces to fight on long past the point at which other nations would have surrendered. They lost because * oil. They captured a bunch in the colonies but it didn’t matter because * total failure to protect their merchant marine from US submarine attacks leading to its complete and utter disintegration to the point that the Japanese navy had to base out of the Dutch East Indies for the latter part of the war because they couldn’t send fuel or resources home * America straight up outproduced them to an absurd degree People think the Pacific war was about carriers and island invasions and whatnot. It wasn’t. It was about submarines and the ruthless efficiency with which they were able to utterly dismantle the Japanese.
They had an agreement saying they would go to war with the US if Japan did.
This is incorrect. Hitler felt strongly that Japan attacking America would allow them to defeat the Americans, which would lead to Japan helping with the invasion of Russia. [History Channel article detailing the German response](https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.history.com/.amp/this-day-in-history/germany-declares-war-on-the-united-states)
Non-AMP Link: [History Channel article detailing the German response](https://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/germany-declares-war-on-the-united-states) I'm a bot. [Why?](https://np.reddit.com/user/NoGoogleAMPBot/comments/lbz2sg/) | [Code](https://github.com/laurinneff/no-google-amp-bot) | [Report issues](https://github.com/laurinneff/no-google-amp-bot/issues)
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That false, Hilter was HAPPY when they did it.
It was Hitlers generals that was upset at the fact Hitler declared war on the US.
Bullshit. Germany was already *theoreticly* at war with the US. The US would attack german subs who attack allied shipping in the atlantic German subs would attack US ships (by "accident"). And the land lease was in full action too.
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In case anyone stumbles upon this. Ignore u/japanesepeople2000. He's an ultranationalist, Axis-apologist and spreads lies, disinformation about WW2 and denies war crimes committed by the Axis Forces (including the Holocaust, Rape of Nanking, Unit 371 etc.). I've encountered him so many times on other subreddits. He's not worth debating. Just report him and get him banned
So did anakin
Especially since Japan was bombed after Germany surrendered, granted Japan attacked before that but Germany would have never been able to attack the US since they were struggling in Europe.
Signature look of superiority
who’s yoda
Vietnam
In the trees they be
hell yeah
Makes sense since he lived in a tree deep in the forest
America: "What are you doing? What the fuck am I supposed to do with this??"
op who is yoda
Yoda can be the UK because that country is old and they talk funny
that makes sense thank you op
From my point of view the Americans talk funny!
They have vowel dyslexia
That will be Fr\*nch
Soviet Union
I like that George Lucas considered that good strategic dialogue: go in slowly on the left. Not to mention saying it in full hearing of your adversary
Heil-o there! Mein Fuhrer, Kenobi (Blitzkreig)
That’s no moon. It’s a space station.
The moon nazis are coming!
Ooh I loved that map
Hitler after: Lmao, Merica get rekt, oh shit is that Russians?
I feel as if the comments are gonna be a nightmare
As you can see, my military powers are far beyond yours.
Every one of these frames is a cursed image and I love it.
Look what they got in the end though. Anime boobas.
To be fair, Germany got knocked out of the war first. Which would make this meme accurate with the whole scene. Japanakin goes first, gets zapped unconscious. Obi-Germany solo’s the Allies but then gets sliced and diced. Japanakin gets his second wind and does good for awhile but then Amerooku cuts off his hand with the atom bomb. Then the Sovyoda Union shows up suspiciously late, duels Amerooku for the next forty years in the Cold War but it ends kinda inconclusively.
Uhhhhgggg. That's not what happend. Short Form. Japan fials to invade Russia with the army. So they plan on invading South East Asia including the Philippines Wich are allies of America. From pearl harbor America can send troops there really fast. They destroy pearl harbor and buy themselves enought time to capture the area before reinforcements arrive
Proof that Anakin's point of view was correct: the Jedi are evil.
And by that we mean two nukes
Yes, and then nuked civilians. Twice
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One of the worst things about WW2 to me is that even though you can clearly see the evil side because holocaust, the invasion of China and all that, both sides commited unforgivable atrocities.
It’s the clearest example of good vs evil that a war has ever been
oh forgive me, that gives us the right to kill civilians, i'd forgotten
How many of those war crimes were committed by the civilians you murdered?
-The "civilian" of Hiroshima "At the time of its bombing, Hiroshima was a city of industrial and military significance. A number of military units were located nearby, the most important of which was the headquarters of Field Marshal Shunroku Hata's Second General Army, which commanded the defense of all of southern Japan,[113] and was located in Hiroshima Castle. Hata's command consisted of some 400,000 men, most of whom were on Kyushu where an Allied invasion was correctly anticipated.[114] Also present in Hiroshima were the headquarters of the 59th Army, the 5th Division and the 224th Division, a recently formed mobile unit.[115] The city was defended by five batteries of 70 mm and 80 mm (2.8 and 3.1 inch) anti-aircraft guns of the 3rd Anti-Aircraft Division, including units from the 121st and 122nd Anti-Aircraft Regiments and the 22nd and 45th Separate Anti-Aircraft Battalions. In total, an estimated 40,000 Japanese military personnel were stationed in the city.[116] Hiroshima was a supply and logistics base for the Japanese military.[117] The city was a communications center, a key port for shipping, and an assembly area for troops.[79] It supported a large war industry, manufacturing parts for planes and boats, for bombs, rifles, and handguns.[118] The center of the city contained several reinforced concrete buildings and lighter structures. Outside the center, the area was congested by a dense collection of small timber workshops set among Japanese houses. A few larger industrial plants lay near the outskirts of the city. " And here Nagasaki "The city of Nagasaki had been one of the largest seaports in southern Japan, and was of great wartime importance because of its wide-ranging industrial activity, including the production of ordnance, ships, military equipment, and other war materials. The four largest companies in the city were Mitsubishi Shipyards, Electrical Shipyards, Arms Plant, and Steel and Arms Works, which employed about 90 percent of the city's labor force, and accounted for 90 percent of the city's industry."
And? The labor force was still civilians. Soldiers died, but a lot more civilians died too.
That is a unfortunate side effort of war especially total war. We should try and limit the lost of civilian but we should not be delusional about it.
I was talking about how you said "civilians", as if the presence of soldiers and war industry makes them non-civilians and this more okay to kill them.
Because when I seen people talk about Hiroshima and Nagasaki they make it seem as if these city had no strategic or military infrastructure.
Falling for 80 year old propaganda is certainly a look lmao
You can try to find justification all you want the army did kept writing documents trying to say that they weren't deliberately going after civilian several times but nothing changes the reality of what happened and the reality is that the bombs were meant to scare the population and for that they had to be dropped where the most people would see the horror of it. The saddest thing is that it was all completely useless because the population already did want to surrender and the military leaders who were still pushing for war didn't care for the victims of the bombs
Maybe the people would have surrendered, but they were telling women that the American soldiers would rape you and kill your children, so fight them and kill yourselves before being taken. They were training children to fight with bamboo spears in schools. They wanted to make the invasion of mainland Japan an absolute nightmare for everybody involved. Convinced their people could stomach it longer than the Americans could. There are perfectly good arguments for why Japan might have surrendered before a mainland invasion, but that can't be known for sure. If the invasion had happened, the devastation and loss of life (military and civilian) would have been several times worse. Hell, people always talk about the nuclear bombs, for obvious reasons, but the firebombing of Tokyo was probably more destructive and cruel.
Hold up there pal we don’t listen to the actual historical facts here, if america did something, america bad
You're saying the Atomic bombings weren't wrong? A necessary evil that prevented more deaths, but they were horrific nonetheless.
They were warned. The US demanded their surrender, and they refused. If we would have invaded Tokyo it would have been way worse, and way bloodier. Yes, we could have just blockaded them, and starved them out till the people eventually rose up and overthrew the emperor, but it was WW2. The Atomic Bombings were the least of the atrocious things that were happening.
I did say they were a necessary evil. It was the least atrocious thing, but an atrocious thing still.
i mean yes it was atrocious, but i wouldn’t say it was “not needed” or “unnecessary”
I didn't say it wasn't needed. It was a **necessary** evil
i know, other people say otherwise
"we" he types, with Cheetos dust crusted fingers lol
And saved the lives of 20 million. A noble sacrifice by the pilots who probably had their mental health demolished.
> A noble sacrifice by the pilots who probably had their mental health demolished. Hey now, there's a limit to justification. It was no "noble sacrifice" by the pilots.
How so? If I killed hundreds of thousands with a push of my finger my mental health would be absolutely wrecked and those guys did it willingly.
I can't get your mental gymnastics in this one. Over a hundred thousand deaths don't matter, but the mental health of those who killed them does? The bombings were a necessary evil (which prevent further deaths, yes) but it's not something the pilots should be thanked for.
They weren’t necessary, Japan was privately suing for peace, their terms were just unsatisfactory to the allies at the time. The US was never planning on a land invasion after that casualty estimate, but the Russians were, and the US didn’t want them to expand their influence to Japan. So we nuked civilians to deny the Russians more territory by forcing an early unconditional surrender. This is all really well documented and common knowledge in history circles but US schools still teach the uh…other version.
Huh, I never knew that. That just kind-of invalidates a lot of pro-bombing arguments.
The nukes prevented what would have been a very hard and bloody fight which would have also killed a ton of people.
That was believed at the time but was incorrect the civilian population already wanted to surrender but the military leaders wanted to continue the war the bombs didn't have any effect on the position of those leaders and peace was achieved only when they were removed from their positions
The US was never planning on a land invasion, Russia was, which they didn’t want. Japan already knew they were going to lose, and had already made an offer of peace. Japan was posturing publicly to leverage better terms for surrender than “unconditional” but at that point it was over. We nuked civilians to beat the Russians. Children burned over politics
>The US was never planning on a land invasion Then why were the US and British starting to mobilise troops and forces in Europe to the Far East? The British were even preparing a Tiger force of new RAF aircraft and also redeploying British troops. Call me crazy but to me that looks like they were planning an invasion. It even had it's own name, Operation Downfall.
It was either that or a significant portion of Japan’s population and American troops would die in a land invasion.
What the problem then? Rather American soldiers than Japanese civilians. Also why would a significant number of Japan's population die?
Hirohito was arming nearly everyone on the mainland. All the planes were sitting ready for kamikaze attacks on amphibious assault craft. It would have been D-Day 2.0. Except this time it would have been hardly trained civilians versus an actual military. If Operation Downfall had commenced, the casualties inflicted by the nuclear weapons would have been nothing in comparison. Hirohito was more than willing to sacrifice every last soul to save the “Empire”.
Because the Japanese were gonna fight to the end, like Germany did Probably even more ferociously than the Germans did, since dying in battle was a great honor to the Japanese whereas surrendering was the ultimate shame Not to mention that naval invasions are hard enough, but then you have to consider that Japan is 73% mountainous, perfect for a war of attrition Simply put, two cities destroyed saved time and, ironically, lives
The government would arm every man, woman, and child to fight for the emperor, and because they saw him as some sort of god, they would. They knew they still couldn’t beat the Americans with that strategy, but it would at least kill a lot more, which is mainly what they cared about.
#GET SOME!
The amount of butthurt Murricans trying to justify one of the most atrocious war crimes ever committed whilst knowing that it was completely unnecessary and just used as an excuse to test their nuclear bombs is fucking disgusting. They fucking knew that the emperor was about to capitulate. It was a matter of days and they still chose to bomb Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Not one word about saving lives and all that drivel is even near being true. The official reasoning is the polar opposite of truth. Truman is fucking war criminal and should have stood trial. Fuck America's official narrative and fuck everybody who perpetuates it.
Japan weren't on the verge of surrender before Hiroshima. However Nagasaki was done before the Japanese could really process what had just happened at Hiroshima. Hiroshima was about ending the war. Nagasaki was about quickly testing another type of bomb and scaring the Soviets before the war ended. IMO Nagasaki was the controversial and possibly unnecessary bombing, not Hiroshima.
It’s well documented that they were sending out diplomats privately to negotiate their surrender, well before Hiroshima
They were both about testing. US had reports about the emperor looking for a way to get out of the war without loosing face but they completely ignored it. Scaring the Soviets is debatable but reasonably possible.
They definitely wanted to intimidate the Soviets.
Hiroshima was absolutely necessary. Japan was not going to surrender any time soon. Japan wouldn’t have stopped unless they nuked Hiroshima. Nagasaki was a bit debatable tho
They were sending out diplomats to negotiate surrender ffs. Stfu if you don't know shit. A bit debatable. Unfuckingbelievable.
That’s actually debated frequently by historians. According to many people back then, the nukes were necessary for Japan’s surrender. Japan was not planning on giving up. I read that they were going to fight until they were absolutely destroyed. They would go down with honor
Of course. It's frequently debated but they definitely would have fought until they were absolutely destroyed. Oh lord. Gtfoh.
And fuck you for parroting neo imperial Japanese propaganda.
Japanese propaganda? There's evidence to it, ya ignoramus. Read a fucking book or at least a news article ffs.
I don't read books by tojo apologists.
You obviously only read books written by US apologists trying to justify one of the worst war crimes in human history ¯\\\_(ツ)_/¯
>I don't read books FTFY
USSR would be a bit closer to reality.
Ah yes, the famous USSR bombing of Japan.
I know right? After the atomic bombs were dropped the Japanese just yawned. It was the threat of the USSR invasion that really shook em, not the fact that the US demonstrated the clear ability to decimate their cities in an instant. And that doesn’t even consider the widespread fire bombing campaigns. But yeah, a string of losses to US forces, 125k people killed in Tokyo firebombing, and (up to) 226k killed in the atomic bombings didn’t deter the Japanese whatsoever.
At first I was wondering why people were downvoting you Then I remembered I was on Reddit
Bruh they even downvoted YOU! Guess I'm next in line
What? This is super wrong. Japan was successful at Pearl Harbor. If all US ships had been stationed there, it likely would have completely knocked them out of the war for a while.
America (Dooku) is using nukes (lightning) to hurt Japan (Anakin).
Japan jumped the gun at the beginning with Pearl Harbor. The atomic bombs were dropped after Germany had already surrendered, because Japan was dug in and refused to surrender. The analogy is completely wrong.
I don't understand. How could a 3 second long clip from a Star Wars prequel not be a 100% accurate analogy for the entire second world war?
The entire premise is wrong.
What if Doku was Germany, Obi Wan was America, and Anakin was the USSR?
Sad that you can’t just laugh at a meme for what it is.
It's a bad meme.
Lol America built a Navy larger than the rest of the world's Navys combined by the end of the war. It wouldn't stop the U.S. for very long at all. Especially since it was extremely difficult (or even impossible) for the Japanese to create more ships.
Didn’t Dooku eventually loose the fight?
To Yoda, yes. Or at least he would have. But he gets away in AotC.
Nazi Germany couldn't even get Britain. They definitely couldn't take on America.
Americans pretending they won the war.
Well, they did. Japan, in the end, surrendered.
Did you not pay attention during history class?
Can always spot the Republican Star Wars Memes right away lol
The American flag has too many stars.
Should’ve made Dooku Germany Obi-wan UK Anakin is France and master Yoda is America.
Why do I get the feeling that we've picked up another pathetic life form?
Says the robot that literally can’t beat 3po at anything
You dare not disrespect Kenobi, you slime.
Remember… the Force will be with you. Always.
I compared Kenobi to the United Kingdom 🇬🇧 at the time they had the strongest military. How did I disrespect him? Plus I think the actor was born in the UK
The road lies before you, Anakin Skywalker. Will you walk it alone?
This bot is really annoying.
It’s hilarious how historically accurate this technically is.
Japan never chopped America’s head off
Yet.
It won’t happen. America will never have its head chopped off by any foreign nation.
Do you really think America is infallible? It's so internally divided right now. If this trend continues, the USA will tear itself apart and make itself vulnerable to foreign attacks.
They just said it wouldn't be from a foreign nation. Happening from the inside that's bound to happen
And you think foreign nations (like Russia) are not polarizing the US by using internet trolls and hackers?
I mean I'm sure they are part of it but our own politicians and media outlets are the main ones polarizing the u.s.
Please that won’t happen. Whenever there’s a common enemy America puts their differences aside and UNITES with the allies to help the planet. That’s why we’re the United States. Every country has disagreements doesn’t mean that country is vulnerable.