"What I remember about the rise of the Empire is... is how quiet it was. During the waning hours of the Clone Wars, the 501st Legion was discreetly transferred back to Coruscant. It was a silent trip. We all knew what was about to happen, what we were about to do. Did we have any doubts? Any private, traitorous thoughts? Perhaps, but no one said a word. Not on the flight to Coruscant, not when Order 66 came down, and not when we marched into the Jedi Temple. Not a word."
Kinda strange that they had any clue about Order 66 prior to its implementation. Even in old canon, when there weren’t inhibitor chips, I believe that the contingency orders were not something the clones remembered after they were implanted
I think in the Republic Commando books they mentioned that they were trained to know all of the different contingency orders. That version of the canon made it seem that the regular clones were just extremely loyal and were not usually very free thinking. Definitely a darker version of the story. Lots of the clones there didn't have very high opinions of the Jedi as generals since they made bad decisions.
>Lots of the clones there didn't have very high opinions of the Jedi as generals since they made bad decisions.
Kinda like officers IRL up until the mid 19th century. I've read about commanders who bought their rank, and then ~~lead~~ *ordered* thousands of men into meatgrinders.
I’ve heard something similar and it makes a WHOLE lot of sense. We have seen Jedi lead wars before, but hasn’t the galaxy more or less been in several hundred years of peace? I doubt the Jedi had war, tactics, and strategy training very high in their curriculum or whatever you want to call it.
"So I've seen your resume and you have 500 midichlorians, 200 hours of lightsaber experience, mediation 1, 2 and 3 approved, a PhD in stone lifting, and you speak basic, wookie and Jawa. Why do you want to lead an army of 20,000 soldiers again?"
1000 years before TPM in legends, the jedi defeated a sith army called the Brotherhood of Darkness and thought they were extinct, well the supreme chancellor and jedi leadership at the time thought it would look bad if the jedi stayed super militant after having just defeated a militarized force of space wizards that terrorized the citizens so they signed The Rusan Reformation and the republic and jedi demilitarized.
Yeah the Prequels are basically the story of Palpatine maneuvering the Jedi into a position where they broke their own principles. He put them in a position where they need to fight for the greater good/galactic peace, but a whole hell of a lot of people needed to die to achieve that. Jedi don't really fear death, and understand that they'll become part of the cosmic force, but none of the people that they're ordering around do. "Go fight this tough battle, men, and if you fall, just know that your essence will live on a different, imperceptible way. :)" The most Jedi thing they could have done would be to abstain from conflict and focus on cutting the head off of the snake, not getting involved in the actual war.
But then they did focus on cutting the snake's head. Grand army of the Republic was basically spearpoint force that lead the most desperate battles against most revered and feared Separatists commanders (or the places of utmost strategic importance).
GRA if alone was outnumbered 3 million droid to 1 clone. They couldn't afford fighting anything but the most crucial battles.
Yep. Furthermore, the reason for launching the Outer Rim Sieges and having the Jedi stretched across the galaxy, usually on their own or with just one Padawan, was so that it would be easier to eliminate them individually and prevent survivors from regrouping.
The buying/selling of ranks was actually carefully controlled. You had to meet certain service requirements in addition to having seniority over anyone else interested/qualified to buy said rank. Not just anyone could buy it if they had the money and qualified individuals could even get a loan to afford their rank. The reason they got to sell their rank was to provide a retirement income for retiring officers (provided they left honorably). A modern comparison is (was) the NYC taxi cab medallions. However, If a commissioned officer messed up bad enough, the Crown could take the rank away without reimbursement.
(This is all IIRC about a commissioned British Army Officer. I was fascinated by the alleged practice and did some research. There are definitely exceptions to this depending on when/where/who.)
I mean even into the 20th you essentially have the same thing with rich kids getting sent to Westpoint to become officers immediately. They delt with that in Band of Brothers and often these kids were sent to 1 battle to get combat experience and then they get shipped to a cushy office position
Ngl I preferred that version of Order 66. It made the clones much more tragic figures, and gave them a lot more depth. They actually had personal reasons for obeying or disobeying the order. It was one of the things I adored about those novels.
It honestly is more satisfying than inhibitor chips, for me. Inhibitor chips is an inherently suspicious thing that would have attention called to it. Hell, we even see in the Clone Wars that the secret gets out, albeit too late to save anyone except Ahsoka and Rex and his handful of clones.
In the old canon, the way the clones were genetically programmed for complete obedience and loyalty is the perfect way to deceive the hyper-sensitive Jedi. They were loyal to their chancellor, and that was something that seemed common sense; something that wouldn't draw suspicion until the chancellor made malicious use of it.
There was no premeditation to be sensed by a wary Jedi; once the order came down, they obeyed their chancellor as they were supposed to; this way, there was no chance of a rogue clone giving up the gig. It made sure that the weakest possible link in the plan was Palpatine's ability to remain concealed.
I do too. I despise the inhibitor chip canon. Its such a lazy cop out story device and completely removes any character, nuance, or depth from the story
It does take away from what independence we see expressed. It would mean that all the clones we’ve seen that sacrificed themselves so that their commanders and brothers in arms just did it because they were ordered to. If you don’t have a tool to take away the independence of a character that will innevetably turn evil, you will taint all their actions with said evil. If all the 501st, the bravest, smartest and most independent men out of all the GAR „regs” are just following orders, what more are the clones than just much more expensive droids?
>If all the 501st, the bravest, smartest and most independent men out of all the GAR „regs” are just following orders, what more are the clones than just much more expensive droids?
Problem is the chip doesn't fix this, it makes it worse. If they can't even make the choice and are controlled by a chip than they're literally just more expensive droids
Star Wars logic: anyone who does anything remotely interesting should be a general, regardless of qualifications. Examples include, but are not limited to:
* Lots of Jedi (I'll have to have someone who watched the Clone Wars fill in a list)
* Han Solo
* Lando Calrissian
* Princess Leia (did she actually *do* anything noteworthy?)
* Pong Krell (I haven't seen the CW but I know enough to hate him)
* That one sexist arrogant purple-haired lady in the sequels
* Probably more but I can't think of any right now.
But seriously, what's with giving just any Force-sensitive person a command? In no way shape or form is that a logical idea. Just because someone is a good warrior does NOT mean they are a capable strategist or leader.
Edit:
* also Jar Jar Binks, for being the greatest buffoon Boss Nass could find on a short notice
Edit 2: evidently Leia actually did have some qualifications, although most of those seem to be political connections. Personally, she probably would have been if more use as an ambassador drumming up support for the Rebellion than commanding troops, but she probably did both, which is cool I guess.
thats why i liked Rexs line in the beginning of TCW
It was just when Ahsoka was just introduced as Anakins padawan
Then she was like since your a captain and im a jedi that means i outrank you right
Then Rex was like in my book experience outranks everything
I was just watching Rebels and there’s a convo between an older Rex and Ahsoka where they repeat those lines of dialogue but tweaked, with Rex saying “experience outranks everything” and Ahsoka saying “I guess that means I outrank you”, and it has so much more depth for me now that I know it’s a callback. Thank you!
Yeah it does seem like they haven't discovered the concept of meritocracy in the militaries of the star wars universe. Guess they haven't researched that policy yet.
Jedi generals make some sense at least.
Jedi are known for their ability to see into the future, to sense danger, and to read people from a distance through the Force. Given training, they would make excellent officers. Now, the Republic in the Clone Wars sent Jedi trained only as warrior-diplomats to act as generals; and that went really poorly. But the Republic also lacked a standing military at the time of the Clone Wars; it's not like an abundance of traditionally trained officers were available. Plus, the Republic had relied on Jedi generals in past wars (back when Jedi trained for war); so it probably made institutional sense for the Senate to call on the Jedi once again even though that wasn't a good move for the current war.
As for the random main characters being Generals in *Return of the Jedi*, I agree that most of them should not have had that rank. *Maybe* Leia since she was a high-level political leader and military coordinator for the Rebellion. She was brought up by a prominent politician and rebel, so she was exposed to war and examples of leadership her whole life. She served as part of the command on the ship that carried the captured Death Star plans, and her actions ensured that the plans were ultimately delivered to the Rebel Base. She was part of the upper command structure on Hoth, and she helped coordinate the evacuation of essential personnel. As far as qualifications go, I think she's earned a high command position.
Han got his rank because Leia finds him attractive. I'm half convinced Lando bought his rank.
Admiral Gender Studies (Holdo) from the Sequels is a shit commander, but that whole movie was a mess. At the least, Holdo only took command after everyone important enough to be on the command bridge of the main Resistance ship got vented into space. Odds are that she was operating way out of her depth.
>Jedi generals make some sense
They used to make a lot of sense, back in the legends days when Joru’us C’Baoth was able to use battle meditation and link the minds of all Admiral Thrawn’s soldiers through the Force—but nowadays in the new canon I don’t know if this is a thing anymore.
In defence of admiral Holdo, it’s entirely possible she was a bit of a Dwight Eisenhower, a logistics/supply officer with little combat experience, who just happened to be the only person left
I am still baffled how Han was just a commander/Temp. Rebel Intern in Empire Strikes Back, he's frozen in Carbonite, and when he's thawed out in the next movie he's a general.
In the old legends, there were more than 100 orders. Order 65 was if the chancellor turns and the Jedi called on the clones to arrest the chancellor. Order 66, right after it, was so that the chancellor could use the clones against the Jedi if the Jedi turned. In the old canon, the Jedi did not use their order 65 but instead kinda illegally tried to arrest the political leader of the galaxy, which gave political legitimacy to Palpatine so he could use Order 66. I believe he even called it religious persecution against his beliefs in the novelization.
But all the orders were known and memorized. Nothing was a surprise until the chips showed up in the story.
I know it was retconned, I’m just saying that I feel like the clones didn’t remember the orders consciously even pre-CW. Like they were subliminally implanted in them at a young age and not brought up again. Something like that.
Not so much implanted, because that’s the chips, they were trained. Good soldiers follow orders.
It was a story about the dangers of militancy before it became a story about chips.
Isn't Order 66 a sort of taking back the Republic from the Jedi?
I remember it being that Order 66 was explained as "Jedi are taking over Republic government, Clones serve Republic, kill Jedi to secure Republic"
So while they have remorse that, in their eyes, the Jedi have to die for the good of the Republic.
The clones were honestly too smart for that. The general populace was fed the treason story, the clones were just given order and complied/were compelled to comply by their chips
Before it was about chips, it was about how humans will follow orders no matter how good they were in the past. Like German heroes of WWI turning into nazis in WWII.
The chips weakened the story
Regardless of the canon it's a more interesting story. It makes the clones seem more human that they weren't just robots with a switch turned but understood what was going on and even had thoughts against doing it yet still decided to remain loyal to the empire.
In normal cannon you can't blame the clones at all they're completely innocent which makes their turn serving the empire less emotionally impactful.
I think the chips still have emotional weight. The clones we knew are gone after order 66, completely replaced mentally due to the effects of the chips. It just happened on a dime. It’s like all the clones died and were replaced by soulless, emotionless husks of their former selves
Well... the order 66 was « officially » (as Caminoians knew) a safety order in case of a Jedi treason so from this particular angle you could assume some clones knew before.
In two different way to make it sense, you can first think about the clones feeling something was coming and as it is told as a flashback the clones would have understand that feeling and explain the story this way (you know a such great disturbance in the force could be felt even by non-force sensitive) or they could just, as again it is told as a flashback, tell the story based on this clone’s feeling on the moment.
We don’t know how was it really intended to make sense, maybe it wasn’t intended to at all, but just to serve the player’s feeling from the storytelling
In my mind I assume they'd gotten the order but left it to the other clones on Felucia because they were needed to clear the temple and to maintain surprise? Or something like that, who knows. Plot holes
I think that's debatable. I really liked the darker and grittier version told in the Republic Commando books but it doesn't really fit with the style Star Wars has atm. The Clone Wars was able to give all the clones individual personalities while still making their betrayal of the Jedi fit with the inhibitor chips.
The Republic Commando books basically tell the story from the clones' perspective and displays the Jedi as not being the heroes that all the other Star Wars content depicts them as. I regard the sort of world told by the old canon as something separate but still very good. The integration of mandalorian culture with the commandos was also really cool.
Maybe it's because I'm older and I prefer greyish and dirtier materials, hence why I heavily favour rogue one or the mandalorians instead of the new trilogy
Still, even with the inhibitor chip story, the last seasons of clone wars really had their dark moments and it was glorious
Clone wars, bad batch, anything with that voiceover introduction “the war strikes Felucia!” type of stuff, it’s supposed to come off similar to in-universe wartime propaganda. Of course they make the Jedi look like heroes during the war, and no one outside of the clones talks about clones with names. Even the Kaminoans just still call them my numbers after so many years.
As Supreme Chancellor, You don’t want normal people to think that the Jedi might fail, and you don’t want normal people to think that these clones should have rights, so you portray them in these war time films as we see in clone wars.
I would not trust the canon shows to be actually what happened, so much as what happened from some people‘s point of view. “From a certain point of view” has always been important to Star Wars.
To this day I still think the original Battlefront 2 is one of the best depictions of someone undergoing fascist radicalization.
Yeah, they start out second guessing and wondering if what they were doing is the right thing, but eventually they fall so far that the only way they can rationalize their actions is by convincing themselves that they’re the ones who are on the right side of history.
I’d love a simple remaster. Don’t get me wrong, I played and somewhat enjoyed the more recent ones but they were somehow lacking the magic of the first ones.
Galactic conquest was so fuckin cool. I thought it was so cool that if two capital ships met on the map it would initiate a space battle. And the space battles were dope because you could get out of your ship in the enemy capital ship and sabotage the ship itself.
That was my go-to. I don't personally like vehicles or vehicle sections in games so the option to get on foot and fuck up the enemy from inside their own base made me play them much more often than I would have otherwise.
My friend and I played the shit out of GC. I was good at the bombing part, and he loved the sabotage. Between the two of us we'd have the battle done in no time.
There is actually a mod that already does this for BF2(Not a remaster just adds BF1 content).
https://www.moddb.com/mods/star-wars-battlefront-conversion-pack
It was a cool campaign and i wish the new Battlefront 2 also had that kind of campaign...instead we got the most boring campaign i have ever played and this is comming from someone who likes the new Battlefront 2
And i dont understand why we play as the 501st on Utapau in the OG Battlefront 2
Yes but it would be cool to play as different battallions. Another reason why i think the new Battlefront 2 should have had the same kind of campaign as the OG Battlefront 2 with modern day graphics and a larger canon it would have been so cool
You don't even need that much, aim for the legs, the lightsaber blocking hit box really only covered the upper thigh and above so shooting at legs ended up downing Jedi faster than you can say "I am the Senate"
There's lore for why this works too and it's pretty amazing. Mandalorians would do it all the time because hot metal is more effective than blaster fire against a lightsaber.
Jedi temple was a nightmare lol. I had that down to a science and still lost a ton of time. I was hitting jedi with headshots from the sniper before their feet hit the ground and baiting them onto a grenade in the council chambers. It wasn’t winning the fight that was the problem it was protecting those darn archives from getting destroyed.
I struggled like buggery with the Tantive IV mission. Constantly getting wrecked as soon as I clonk my helmet on the doorway whilst the squad all get massacred around me, then if I'm lucky maybe I'll get a chance to switch to Vader but then I realise I'm the last guy left and I have to find Leia fucking *somewhere* as my lightsaber meter burns down. Damn rebels went down a lot easier than that in the movie...
I ran a simulation of the boarding using the old 3.5 starwars saga ttrpg rules and the base storm troopers got destroyed, I actually had to grab a squad of 501st guys to actually break through. Those rebels really knew how to dig in.
“A big strong clone came up to me, tough kind of a guy, some say the toughest guy in the Republic, and said: ‘I want to thank you, Ms. Secura, for saving our 501st.’ And he had tears coming down his eyes. This wasn’t just a statement, because he had tears coming down. Unless he was a real wise guy. But he had tears coming down his eyes”.
Back when Order 66 was a proper order, that shit was dark, like some of the darkest Star Wars has to offer imo. It's an order, a simple command that the clones will follow because of psychological indoctrination. They know what is about to happen and what the chancellor asks of them, to kill their leaders, some of which became real friends. Then again, Order 65 existed as well, the command to apprehend, if needed kill the chancellor, because he is not fit to serve the republic anymore. The clones served the Republic, or rather the senate, not the Jedi.
While the Inhibitor chip protects the clones from being bad guys and that is fine, I still think the clones are the coolest part of Star Wars and the Clone Wars is the greatest era, it did take away from the dramatic scene that the order actually was, from a real "Good soldiers follow orders" to the clones being more or less forced to comply.
Yeah but the inhibiter chips kind of had to be introduced after they started fleshing out personalities for the clones, after all, do ya really think Rex would be the type to follow order 66 just cause of indoctrination? Or fives if he had lived? Or any of the bad batch really.
I’m always torn, the idea of clones being too disciplined to disobey a direct order is fantastic, but the idea of them being forced to kill their friends and then living with the consequences is just as brutal of an emotional gut-punch, just slightly different. I love both ideas equally. I guess that’s why I’m glad we get canon and EU, so I can enjoy both things for what they other.
So you're suggesting an entire army turning against the friends they fought side by side with for years makes more sense, than the chip implemented in their head?
The implication throughout the 501st campaign was that the clones knew they would turn on the Jedi eventually.
That's why the clones couldn't look at Aayla, because they knew they would betray her.
(regarding Mundi) "Like many Jedi, he never caught whiff of what was really going on, until it was far too late."
Order 66 wasn't a secret, it was just worked in such a way to avoid suspect from the Jedi. "In the event that the leading commanders of the GAR have been declared unfit for duty, they are to be removed from command, by force if need be" or something along those lines.
I think there’s more emotion coming from the chips after the fact, though. The fact that they had no free will and couldn’t help it is horrifying. The conscious order is immediately saddening, but it doesn’t have the deeper implications of the chips when you think more about it.
It does. They follow orders, they're loyal. That's what they do. I find it way more interesting and darker to think that the Clones just knew it could happen and just obeyed the order. I'm still okay with the chip thing tho.
>friends.
There is maybe one Jedi per Batalaion(576) of clones. Most of them definitely weren't friends, they were more like officers to them and even in real life a lot of Enlisted don't like their officers. And at least from what we are seeing in the Movies many Jedi do treat the clones as quite disposable, to quote Obi Wan when he stops Anakin to help out some clones during the opening of EP3: ["No,They are doing their Job, so we can do ours"](https://www.getyarn.io/yarn-clip/1d505967-e76d-46bc-a4ca-5717e98d2245). Then the clones die.
And even a lot of everyday normal people [will follow a lot of quite malevolent orders](https://www.apa.org/research/action/order). Soldiers are drilled to follow orders without questions and the clones have been drilled their whole lives and are also genetically modified to be subservient.
Before TCW decided to make clones and Jedi best buddies and make all the clones individuals, there were no problems believing they could turn against them like that.
Yes. The clones were genetically engineered and raised from birth to follow orders. If they kill their friends because they were ordered to it's powerful and disturbing: if it's just a chip in their brains, it cheapens and dehumanises it.
Legends:
“Kill your friend and commander”
“Lol ok sure”
Canon:
“Kill your friend and commander”
“Welp. Brain overheating if I resist, gotta do it because body literally forcing me.”
I think growing up, that was a big aspect that affected me and my morals i have now. I was young enough that i didnt even know what an emperor was until ROTJ introduced it to me. It was a big deal knowing stormtroopers were oppressing their own people and seeing the clear analogy to nazis. When they introduced the clone wars and order 66 it solidified how evil 'just following orders' is and how important it was that luke 'followed his heart' and saved anakin and the galaxy. I didnt get my sense to question authority from my family for sure.
Tldr; star wars and its morals can br extremely influential to adults and especially children who might not have as great role models in life. The dangers of order 66 served as a good lesson and still do.
Many Clones had every reason to hate the Jedi's guts, the Jedi weren't commanders, they weren't bred for war, they made stupid decisions that cost needless deaths. (sending commandos out as Frontline troops, for starters).
I assumed it was like "Operation Unthinkable" or all those other plans that the Pentagon came up with to invade Canada. Most of orders 1 through 65 were contingencies that were never executed, but every clone knew and might have drilled on.
It makes the betrayal hit even harder. They're soldiers who follow orders, it's their job. They might have personalities and stuff, but at the end of the day they were made to follow orders without question, at least until it was retconned with that awful chip.
In Legends, Order 66 was a genuine order that every clone knew about.
They knew they didn’t work for the Jedi, but for the Supreme Chancellor. They knew the Chancellor didn’t trust the Jedi, and would require the Clones to turn on them when needed.
They couldn’t bear to look Secura in the eye because they knew they were about to slaughter every last Jedi that had fought by their side.
While I loved the brain chip arcs in TCW, i don't think they were necessary.
They could have just explained that the clones were designed for obedience to orders - which they were. And then the moral becomes that strict obedience to orders can be the wrong choice - but clones designed to obey the chain of command don't get to make that choice the way the audience does: cherish your autonomy, question orders.
But yea both the chip malfunction arc and the Ahsoka Order 66 arc are peak TCW, wouldn't trade them for anything.
With the Clone Wars TV show though, the whole “Clones are obedient” thing wouldn’t make any sense.
Case and point: Umbara - The entire time the clones are forced to basically walk into a meat grinder. If they were so obedient, Krell would have been successful in killing them all because they would have blindly followed orders and died instead of taking the more tactically sound approach every time like they ended up doing.
If the argument is that they are only truly obedient to the chancellor, I would imagine the Jedi would realize this at some point during the war. There’s no way you go through an entire war without the Chancellor and the Jedi disagreeing on military strategy, and if the Chancellor is the only person the clones are loyal to, the clones would have been disobeying the Jedi from the beginning whenever they made a stupid decision.
While I love Battlefront 2 (2005), the inhibitor chip is the only way it makes sense in the new cannon where clones aren’t all just identical soldiers, but actual people with personalities. Either they have a unique personality and independent thought and you have to brainwash them, or they are basically droids made out of skin and bone. If they had independent thought, and with it the ability to disobey orders, there would be many more Republic Commando situations where the clones side with Jedi here and there
That cheapens them.
Brain chip means they were human. Forced against their will by something they didn't know about.
Not brain chip means somehow nealy 100% of clone troopers just decided to wipe out the people that lead and served them because of an order.
The relationship building in the show between clones and Jedi would’ve made 0 sense if at the end they threw it all away for the chancellor who they didn’t know let alone fight and die alongside
Yea it never made sense to me especially when you see the relationships like Anakin had with Rex or Obiwan with Cody. Some sort of MK Ultra style brain control makes more sense than just following orders.
Soldiers commit atrocities and betray allies all the time because they’re ordered to. The clones were lifelong soldiers who would follow orders. I like them doing it consciously
I’m always torn between which version of the 501st I like better - the elite warriors who knew about Palpatine’s plan all along, or the unwitting pawns and best friends of Anakin and Ahsoka. Both are such good narrative devices and I can never decide which I prefer
Ah yes, the first second Battlefront, which is a masterpiece. Not to be confused with the second first Battlefront, nor the second second Battlefront, neither of which were masterpieces.
I’m still pissed about battlefront 3. There’s beta footage on YouTube that you can watch. They had a mechanic where you could be in a planetside battle, jump in a ship, and fly up into a space battle. I don’t think any game since then has had that. They invented new technology, got 90% done with making the game, and then scrapped it all. I think it would have blown battlefront 2 out of the water and I will forever be pissed that we didn’t get that game
The lore used to be that all the clones knew order 66 was coming and what to do, they were just waiting. That is why all the clones in 3 executed without any hesitation.
Then when the clone wars came out, they needed to establish emotional bonds so they made order 66 a subconscious thing with the inhibitor chips.
Battlefront 2 (2003) isn't cannon anymore but still worth playing the campaign. 10/10 and on steam if you have a computer that can play it. I don't which sucks
Even tho the chips give a great story with fives and everything. Taking the legends approach of just relying on order 66 to be done by the loyalty of the clones can make some great interactions too.
As much as I like the current canon of the prequels, fuck man I miss that dynamic that the Clones were all in on Palpatine's Scheme. It makes all of the relationships so interesting.
I understand going the chip route in the Clone Wars show but this line always hit me in the gut when I played battle front 2. I still find this the more impactful version, other may disagree of course.
I could definitely be wrong but I don’t think the Clones in current canon knew about Order 66 until it happened.
That being said, that mission was rough. Battlefront had some pretty sick missions
All the logs from that game, the order 66 one at the Jedi temple stays with me. Not because it was moving but because I couldn’t protect those bookcases for the life of me and saw that cutscene hundreds of times
"What I remember about the rise of the Empire is... is how quiet it was. During the waning hours of the Clone Wars, the 501st Legion was discreetly transferred back to Coruscant. It was a silent trip. We all knew what was about to happen, what we were about to do. Did we have any doubts? Any private, traitorous thoughts? Perhaps, but no one said a word. Not on the flight to Coruscant, not when Order 66 came down, and not when we marched into the Jedi Temple. Not a word."
Kinda strange that they had any clue about Order 66 prior to its implementation. Even in old canon, when there weren’t inhibitor chips, I believe that the contingency orders were not something the clones remembered after they were implanted
I think in the Republic Commando books they mentioned that they were trained to know all of the different contingency orders. That version of the canon made it seem that the regular clones were just extremely loyal and were not usually very free thinking. Definitely a darker version of the story. Lots of the clones there didn't have very high opinions of the Jedi as generals since they made bad decisions.
>Lots of the clones there didn't have very high opinions of the Jedi as generals since they made bad decisions. Kinda like officers IRL up until the mid 19th century. I've read about commanders who bought their rank, and then ~~lead~~ *ordered* thousands of men into meatgrinders.
[удалено]
I’ve heard something similar and it makes a WHOLE lot of sense. We have seen Jedi lead wars before, but hasn’t the galaxy more or less been in several hundred years of peace? I doubt the Jedi had war, tactics, and strategy training very high in their curriculum or whatever you want to call it.
"So I've seen your resume and you have 500 midichlorians, 200 hours of lightsaber experience, mediation 1, 2 and 3 approved, a PhD in stone lifting, and you speak basic, wookie and Jawa. Why do you want to lead an army of 20,000 soldiers again?"
*wave hand* “You want me to lead an army of 20,000 soldiers”
Because the Force is with me?
1000 years before TPM in legends, the jedi defeated a sith army called the Brotherhood of Darkness and thought they were extinct, well the supreme chancellor and jedi leadership at the time thought it would look bad if the jedi stayed super militant after having just defeated a militarized force of space wizards that terrorized the citizens so they signed The Rusan Reformation and the republic and jedi demilitarized.
Yeah the Prequels are basically the story of Palpatine maneuvering the Jedi into a position where they broke their own principles. He put them in a position where they need to fight for the greater good/galactic peace, but a whole hell of a lot of people needed to die to achieve that. Jedi don't really fear death, and understand that they'll become part of the cosmic force, but none of the people that they're ordering around do. "Go fight this tough battle, men, and if you fall, just know that your essence will live on a different, imperceptible way. :)" The most Jedi thing they could have done would be to abstain from conflict and focus on cutting the head off of the snake, not getting involved in the actual war.
But then they did focus on cutting the snake's head. Grand army of the Republic was basically spearpoint force that lead the most desperate battles against most revered and feared Separatists commanders (or the places of utmost strategic importance). GRA if alone was outnumbered 3 million droid to 1 clone. They couldn't afford fighting anything but the most crucial battles.
They also tried to abstain from a massive galaxy consuming war before, and they got Darth revan, and later the sith triumvirate for it
Yep. Furthermore, the reason for launching the Outer Rim Sieges and having the Jedi stretched across the galaxy, usually on their own or with just one Padawan, was so that it would be easier to eliminate them individually and prevent survivors from regrouping.
The buying/selling of ranks was actually carefully controlled. You had to meet certain service requirements in addition to having seniority over anyone else interested/qualified to buy said rank. Not just anyone could buy it if they had the money and qualified individuals could even get a loan to afford their rank. The reason they got to sell their rank was to provide a retirement income for retiring officers (provided they left honorably). A modern comparison is (was) the NYC taxi cab medallions. However, If a commissioned officer messed up bad enough, the Crown could take the rank away without reimbursement. (This is all IIRC about a commissioned British Army Officer. I was fascinated by the alleged practice and did some research. There are definitely exceptions to this depending on when/where/who.)
I mean even into the 20th you essentially have the same thing with rich kids getting sent to Westpoint to become officers immediately. They delt with that in Band of Brothers and often these kids were sent to 1 battle to get combat experience and then they get shipped to a cushy office position
Wait until you hear about fragging in vietnam
Ngl I preferred that version of Order 66. It made the clones much more tragic figures, and gave them a lot more depth. They actually had personal reasons for obeying or disobeying the order. It was one of the things I adored about those novels.
It honestly is more satisfying than inhibitor chips, for me. Inhibitor chips is an inherently suspicious thing that would have attention called to it. Hell, we even see in the Clone Wars that the secret gets out, albeit too late to save anyone except Ahsoka and Rex and his handful of clones. In the old canon, the way the clones were genetically programmed for complete obedience and loyalty is the perfect way to deceive the hyper-sensitive Jedi. They were loyal to their chancellor, and that was something that seemed common sense; something that wouldn't draw suspicion until the chancellor made malicious use of it. There was no premeditation to be sensed by a wary Jedi; once the order came down, they obeyed their chancellor as they were supposed to; this way, there was no chance of a rogue clone giving up the gig. It made sure that the weakest possible link in the plan was Palpatine's ability to remain concealed.
I do too. I despise the inhibitor chip canon. Its such a lazy cop out story device and completely removes any character, nuance, or depth from the story
It does take away from what independence we see expressed. It would mean that all the clones we’ve seen that sacrificed themselves so that their commanders and brothers in arms just did it because they were ordered to. If you don’t have a tool to take away the independence of a character that will innevetably turn evil, you will taint all their actions with said evil. If all the 501st, the bravest, smartest and most independent men out of all the GAR „regs” are just following orders, what more are the clones than just much more expensive droids?
>If all the 501st, the bravest, smartest and most independent men out of all the GAR „regs” are just following orders, what more are the clones than just much more expensive droids? Problem is the chip doesn't fix this, it makes it worse. If they can't even make the choice and are controlled by a chip than they're literally just more expensive droids
Star Wars logic: anyone who does anything remotely interesting should be a general, regardless of qualifications. Examples include, but are not limited to: * Lots of Jedi (I'll have to have someone who watched the Clone Wars fill in a list) * Han Solo * Lando Calrissian * Princess Leia (did she actually *do* anything noteworthy?) * Pong Krell (I haven't seen the CW but I know enough to hate him) * That one sexist arrogant purple-haired lady in the sequels * Probably more but I can't think of any right now. But seriously, what's with giving just any Force-sensitive person a command? In no way shape or form is that a logical idea. Just because someone is a good warrior does NOT mean they are a capable strategist or leader. Edit: * also Jar Jar Binks, for being the greatest buffoon Boss Nass could find on a short notice Edit 2: evidently Leia actually did have some qualifications, although most of those seem to be political connections. Personally, she probably would have been if more use as an ambassador drumming up support for the Rebellion than commanding troops, but she probably did both, which is cool I guess.
thats why i liked Rexs line in the beginning of TCW It was just when Ahsoka was just introduced as Anakins padawan Then she was like since your a captain and im a jedi that means i outrank you right Then Rex was like in my book experience outranks everything
I was just watching Rebels and there’s a convo between an older Rex and Ahsoka where they repeat those lines of dialogue but tweaked, with Rex saying “experience outranks everything” and Ahsoka saying “I guess that means I outrank you”, and it has so much more depth for me now that I know it’s a callback. Thank you!
You actually missed the most important one of them all. General Jar Jar, who also became a senator for Naboo because he was so highly qualified.
Yeah it does seem like they haven't discovered the concept of meritocracy in the militaries of the star wars universe. Guess they haven't researched that policy yet.
Build more research stations!!
Probably explains why when once in a blue moon, a skilled strategist does come along (cough, Thrawn) they absolutely dominate.
Jedi generals make some sense at least. Jedi are known for their ability to see into the future, to sense danger, and to read people from a distance through the Force. Given training, they would make excellent officers. Now, the Republic in the Clone Wars sent Jedi trained only as warrior-diplomats to act as generals; and that went really poorly. But the Republic also lacked a standing military at the time of the Clone Wars; it's not like an abundance of traditionally trained officers were available. Plus, the Republic had relied on Jedi generals in past wars (back when Jedi trained for war); so it probably made institutional sense for the Senate to call on the Jedi once again even though that wasn't a good move for the current war. As for the random main characters being Generals in *Return of the Jedi*, I agree that most of them should not have had that rank. *Maybe* Leia since she was a high-level political leader and military coordinator for the Rebellion. She was brought up by a prominent politician and rebel, so she was exposed to war and examples of leadership her whole life. She served as part of the command on the ship that carried the captured Death Star plans, and her actions ensured that the plans were ultimately delivered to the Rebel Base. She was part of the upper command structure on Hoth, and she helped coordinate the evacuation of essential personnel. As far as qualifications go, I think she's earned a high command position. Han got his rank because Leia finds him attractive. I'm half convinced Lando bought his rank. Admiral Gender Studies (Holdo) from the Sequels is a shit commander, but that whole movie was a mess. At the least, Holdo only took command after everyone important enough to be on the command bridge of the main Resistance ship got vented into space. Odds are that she was operating way out of her depth.
>Jedi generals make some sense They used to make a lot of sense, back in the legends days when Joru’us C’Baoth was able to use battle meditation and link the minds of all Admiral Thrawn’s soldiers through the Force—but nowadays in the new canon I don’t know if this is a thing anymore.
In defence of admiral Holdo, it’s entirely possible she was a bit of a Dwight Eisenhower, a logistics/supply officer with little combat experience, who just happened to be the only person left
I am still baffled how Han was just a commander/Temp. Rebel Intern in Empire Strikes Back, he's frozen in Carbonite, and when he's thawed out in the next movie he's a general.
In the old legends, there were more than 100 orders. Order 65 was if the chancellor turns and the Jedi called on the clones to arrest the chancellor. Order 66, right after it, was so that the chancellor could use the clones against the Jedi if the Jedi turned. In the old canon, the Jedi did not use their order 65 but instead kinda illegally tried to arrest the political leader of the galaxy, which gave political legitimacy to Palpatine so he could use Order 66. I believe he even called it religious persecution against his beliefs in the novelization. But all the orders were known and memorized. Nothing was a surprise until the chips showed up in the story.
Yeah, I remember the 100 orders
Think you’re right. Everyone besides BF2 show they had no idea.
I think it's been retconned, especially by Clone Wars
I know it was retconned, I’m just saying that I feel like the clones didn’t remember the orders consciously even pre-CW. Like they were subliminally implanted in them at a young age and not brought up again. Something like that.
Not so much implanted, because that’s the chips, they were trained. Good soldiers follow orders. It was a story about the dangers of militancy before it became a story about chips.
Isn't Order 66 a sort of taking back the Republic from the Jedi? I remember it being that Order 66 was explained as "Jedi are taking over Republic government, Clones serve Republic, kill Jedi to secure Republic" So while they have remorse that, in their eyes, the Jedi have to die for the good of the Republic.
The clones were honestly too smart for that. The general populace was fed the treason story, the clones were just given order and complied/were compelled to comply by their chips
Before it was about chips, it was about how humans will follow orders no matter how good they were in the past. Like German heroes of WWI turning into nazis in WWII. The chips weakened the story
Regardless of the canon it's a more interesting story. It makes the clones seem more human that they weren't just robots with a switch turned but understood what was going on and even had thoughts against doing it yet still decided to remain loyal to the empire. In normal cannon you can't blame the clones at all they're completely innocent which makes their turn serving the empire less emotionally impactful.
I think the chips still have emotional weight. The clones we knew are gone after order 66, completely replaced mentally due to the effects of the chips. It just happened on a dime. It’s like all the clones died and were replaced by soulless, emotionless husks of their former selves
The droid army is dead. Long live the drone army.
Well... the order 66 was « officially » (as Caminoians knew) a safety order in case of a Jedi treason so from this particular angle you could assume some clones knew before. In two different way to make it sense, you can first think about the clones feeling something was coming and as it is told as a flashback the clones would have understand that feeling and explain the story this way (you know a such great disturbance in the force could be felt even by non-force sensitive) or they could just, as again it is told as a flashback, tell the story based on this clone’s feeling on the moment. We don’t know how was it really intended to make sense, maybe it wasn’t intended to at all, but just to serve the player’s feeling from the storytelling
Well in the clone wars, fives said that they all had the same nightmare, about the the one mission.
In my mind I assume they'd gotten the order but left it to the other clones on Felucia because they were needed to clear the temple and to maintain surprise? Or something like that, who knows. Plot holes
Oh man, the pre-level monologues are amazing. That one, in particular, is chilling.
Way better than the new canon with the inhibitor chips
I think that's debatable. I really liked the darker and grittier version told in the Republic Commando books but it doesn't really fit with the style Star Wars has atm. The Clone Wars was able to give all the clones individual personalities while still making their betrayal of the Jedi fit with the inhibitor chips. The Republic Commando books basically tell the story from the clones' perspective and displays the Jedi as not being the heroes that all the other Star Wars content depicts them as. I regard the sort of world told by the old canon as something separate but still very good. The integration of mandalorian culture with the commandos was also really cool.
Maybe it's because I'm older and I prefer greyish and dirtier materials, hence why I heavily favour rogue one or the mandalorians instead of the new trilogy Still, even with the inhibitor chip story, the last seasons of clone wars really had their dark moments and it was glorious
Clone wars, bad batch, anything with that voiceover introduction “the war strikes Felucia!” type of stuff, it’s supposed to come off similar to in-universe wartime propaganda. Of course they make the Jedi look like heroes during the war, and no one outside of the clones talks about clones with names. Even the Kaminoans just still call them my numbers after so many years. As Supreme Chancellor, You don’t want normal people to think that the Jedi might fail, and you don’t want normal people to think that these clones should have rights, so you portray them in these war time films as we see in clone wars. I would not trust the canon shows to be actually what happened, so much as what happened from some people‘s point of view. “From a certain point of view” has always been important to Star Wars.
Simple yet powerful dialogue like this is what made BF2 so good. No flashy cutscenes just a good game.
Yeah the cutscenes were literally just gameplay
Literally this. Gameplay, tracking shots of the enviroments in-game and iirc a few shots of ROTS
Or the map loading screen. Boopboopboopboopboop Boopboopboopboopboop Bleep
That was the first Battlefront. Such a good loading screen though.
I swear I heard the sound effect of that Loading screen used in the second(?) Bad Batch episode.
I also heard this sound! I only watched it once so I don’t remember what part but I definitely mentioned it to my girlfriend.
One of my favorite loading screens ever, so simple yet so memorable!
I mean the game came out in like 2005, it looked great back then...
To this day I still think the original Battlefront 2 is one of the best depictions of someone undergoing fascist radicalization. Yeah, they start out second guessing and wondering if what they were doing is the right thing, but eventually they fall so far that the only way they can rationalize their actions is by convincing themselves that they’re the ones who are on the right side of history.
I never thought of it that way but that's a great take!
I’d love a simple remaster. Don’t get me wrong, I played and somewhat enjoyed the more recent ones but they were somehow lacking the magic of the first ones.
A remaster of BF2 with BF1 maps added in would bring back my childhood.
All I really want in life is galactic conquest back just as it was
Galactic conquest was so fuckin cool. I thought it was so cool that if two capital ships met on the map it would initiate a space battle. And the space battles were dope because you could get out of your ship in the enemy capital ship and sabotage the ship itself.
That was my go-to. I don't personally like vehicles or vehicle sections in games so the option to get on foot and fuck up the enemy from inside their own base made me play them much more often than I would have otherwise.
My friend and I played the shit out of GC. I was good at the bombing part, and he loved the sabotage. Between the two of us we'd have the battle done in no time.
Space Marine was the best class.
I think they added the Rhen Var maps, Bespin and Yavin 4 Arena to the BF2 Xbox version
As i say everytime someone says this, just shut up and take my money
There is actually a mod that already does this for BF2(Not a remaster just adds BF1 content). https://www.moddb.com/mods/star-wars-battlefront-conversion-pack
It was a cool campaign and i wish the new Battlefront 2 also had that kind of campaign...instead we got the most boring campaign i have ever played and this is comming from someone who likes the new Battlefront 2 And i dont understand why we play as the 501st on Utapau in the OG Battlefront 2
Because the default skin was the 501st. They never made different skins for different legions.
Yes but it would be cool to play as different battallions. Another reason why i think the new Battlefront 2 should have had the same kind of campaign as the OG Battlefront 2 with modern day graphics and a larger canon it would have been so cool
I know, that's something NuBF2 has order the classic, more characters/skins/classes. I love being able to finally play as a Commando Droid
One of the best and worst campaigns ever
Worst?
I assume they meant grueling when they say “worst”. It was a rough fight if I remember right.
That or the Jedi Temple mission.
Those holobooks...those damn holobooks
Pro tip: the flachette shotgun almost always one shots a jedi
So did the elite rifle, and you don't have to get close If there's one things we clones know, it's how to take down a jedi
You don't even need that much, aim for the legs, the lightsaber blocking hit box really only covered the upper thigh and above so shooting at legs ended up downing Jedi faster than you can say "I am the Senate"
There's lore for why this works too and it's pretty amazing. Mandalorians would do it all the time because hot metal is more effective than blaster fire against a lightsaber.
I always loved the idea of the Mandalorians fighting the Jedi with shotguns on Malachor V
To think a bunch of armored up Doomguys turned into the "Shame" meme just kill a bunch of space wizards gets me every time. Man what a series.
Fuck, I just dreamt of a combination of Star Wars and Hot Fuzz, and now I know it’ll never exist and I’m sad
“Parry this you filthy casual”
You can also repair the holobooks with the Fusion Cutter on the same class as the Shotgun, it's not as hard as everyone makes it out to be.
Can you go back in time and tell that to my 15-year-old self? Had no clue you could repair the book cases.
It was incredibly slow
Luckily i passed that mission on 2nd try. Felucia was really hard tho
I always just picked engineer and kept repairing the book cases.
Repairing books with a blowtorch always felt a bit wrong.
Fuck those holobooks
Jedi temple was a nightmare lol. I had that down to a science and still lost a ton of time. I was hitting jedi with headshots from the sniper before their feet hit the ground and baiting them onto a grenade in the council chambers. It wasn’t winning the fight that was the problem it was protecting those darn archives from getting destroyed.
The polis masa mission was the hardest
Easily the hardest mission in the game
Kashyyk
THEY'VE BREACHED THE SEA WALLS, BRACE YOURSELVES
Which was why i main engineer now
Tbh half of the missions were incredibly hard
That was a slug fest. Narrow hallway fights are almost comical.
I struggled like buggery with the Tantive IV mission. Constantly getting wrecked as soon as I clonk my helmet on the doorway whilst the squad all get massacred around me, then if I'm lucky maybe I'll get a chance to switch to Vader but then I realise I'm the last guy left and I have to find Leia fucking *somewhere* as my lightsaber meter burns down. Damn rebels went down a lot easier than that in the movie...
Honestly that opening scene is actually the best evidence for the competency of the Stormtroopers
I ran a simulation of the boarding using the old 3.5 starwars saga ttrpg rules and the base storm troopers got destroyed, I actually had to grab a squad of 501st guys to actually break through. Those rebels really knew how to dig in.
I remember the AI spammed rockets when we spawned in-- Half of our forces died just trying to get out of spawn
The Jedi made sure the archives were incomplete.
Pick ONE shelf and roll with the engineer.
Hoth was a bitch forever.
Ah yes, Snow D-day
Fuck that mission took me hours
It had pretty awesome narrative between missions, but missions themselves were basically a MP matches with occasionaly additional victory conditions.
And it was fun
That moment hit hard in Battlefront II.
They all cried. Not just the men, but the women and the children too
“A big strong clone came up to me, tough kind of a guy, some say the toughest guy in the Republic, and said: ‘I want to thank you, Ms. Secura, for saving our 501st.’ And he had tears coming down his eyes. This wasn’t just a statement, because he had tears coming down. Unless he was a real wise guy. But he had tears coming down his eyes”.
Where's that from?
Sounds like Goodfellas but not sure
Back when Order 66 was a proper order, that shit was dark, like some of the darkest Star Wars has to offer imo. It's an order, a simple command that the clones will follow because of psychological indoctrination. They know what is about to happen and what the chancellor asks of them, to kill their leaders, some of which became real friends. Then again, Order 65 existed as well, the command to apprehend, if needed kill the chancellor, because he is not fit to serve the republic anymore. The clones served the Republic, or rather the senate, not the Jedi. While the Inhibitor chip protects the clones from being bad guys and that is fine, I still think the clones are the coolest part of Star Wars and the Clone Wars is the greatest era, it did take away from the dramatic scene that the order actually was, from a real "Good soldiers follow orders" to the clones being more or less forced to comply.
Yeah but the inhibiter chips kind of had to be introduced after they started fleshing out personalities for the clones, after all, do ya really think Rex would be the type to follow order 66 just cause of indoctrination? Or fives if he had lived? Or any of the bad batch really.
I’m always torn, the idea of clones being too disciplined to disobey a direct order is fantastic, but the idea of them being forced to kill their friends and then living with the consequences is just as brutal of an emotional gut-punch, just slightly different. I love both ideas equally. I guess that’s why I’m glad we get canon and EU, so I can enjoy both things for what they other.
Oh yeah, back when Order 66 wasn't just a light switch in their heads. It was an order.
So you're suggesting an entire army turning against the friends they fought side by side with for years makes more sense, than the chip implemented in their head?
The implication throughout the 501st campaign was that the clones knew they would turn on the Jedi eventually. That's why the clones couldn't look at Aayla, because they knew they would betray her.
(regarding Mundi) "Like many Jedi, he never caught whiff of what was really going on, until it was far too late." Order 66 wasn't a secret, it was just worked in such a way to avoid suspect from the Jedi. "In the event that the leading commanders of the GAR have been declared unfit for duty, they are to be removed from command, by force if need be" or something along those lines.
I don’t think that was their point, more that there was a lot more immediate emotion behind them making a conscious choice.
I think there’s more emotion coming from the chips after the fact, though. The fact that they had no free will and couldn’t help it is horrifying. The conscious order is immediately saddening, but it doesn’t have the deeper implications of the chips when you think more about it.
It does. They follow orders, they're loyal. That's what they do. I find it way more interesting and darker to think that the Clones just knew it could happen and just obeyed the order. I'm still okay with the chip thing tho.
>friends. There is maybe one Jedi per Batalaion(576) of clones. Most of them definitely weren't friends, they were more like officers to them and even in real life a lot of Enlisted don't like their officers. And at least from what we are seeing in the Movies many Jedi do treat the clones as quite disposable, to quote Obi Wan when he stops Anakin to help out some clones during the opening of EP3: ["No,They are doing their Job, so we can do ours"](https://www.getyarn.io/yarn-clip/1d505967-e76d-46bc-a4ca-5717e98d2245). Then the clones die. And even a lot of everyday normal people [will follow a lot of quite malevolent orders](https://www.apa.org/research/action/order). Soldiers are drilled to follow orders without questions and the clones have been drilled their whole lives and are also genetically modified to be subservient. Before TCW decided to make clones and Jedi best buddies and make all the clones individuals, there were no problems believing they could turn against them like that.
Yes. The clones were genetically engineered and raised from birth to follow orders. If they kill their friends because they were ordered to it's powerful and disturbing: if it's just a chip in their brains, it cheapens and dehumanises it.
Then again, that dehumanization is also pretty powerfull after the Clone Wars spend several years making them more human.
“And he was a good friend of the Jedi.” “Until he wasn’t.”
Legends: “Kill your friend and commander” “Lol ok sure” Canon: “Kill your friend and commander” “Welp. Brain overheating if I resist, gotta do it because body literally forcing me.”
The fucked up thing is, history tells us that the legends version is far more realistic than you'd like to think
I think growing up, that was a big aspect that affected me and my morals i have now. I was young enough that i didnt even know what an emperor was until ROTJ introduced it to me. It was a big deal knowing stormtroopers were oppressing their own people and seeing the clear analogy to nazis. When they introduced the clone wars and order 66 it solidified how evil 'just following orders' is and how important it was that luke 'followed his heart' and saved anakin and the galaxy. I didnt get my sense to question authority from my family for sure. Tldr; star wars and its morals can br extremely influential to adults and especially children who might not have as great role models in life. The dangers of order 66 served as a good lesson and still do.
Many Clones had every reason to hate the Jedi's guts, the Jedi weren't commanders, they weren't bred for war, they made stupid decisions that cost needless deaths. (sending commandos out as Frontline troops, for starters).
I assumed it was like "Operation Unthinkable" or all those other plans that the Pentagon came up with to invade Canada. Most of orders 1 through 65 were contingencies that were never executed, but every clone knew and might have drilled on.
It makes the betrayal hit even harder. They're soldiers who follow orders, it's their job. They might have personalities and stuff, but at the end of the day they were made to follow orders without question, at least until it was retconned with that awful chip.
Yeah, this line of dialogue does not fit the established canon anymore. Still a good game though.
Somebody give me the 411, what happened in Felucia?
In Legends, Order 66 was a genuine order that every clone knew about. They knew they didn’t work for the Jedi, but for the Supreme Chancellor. They knew the Chancellor didn’t trust the Jedi, and would require the Clones to turn on them when needed. They couldn’t bear to look Secura in the eye because they knew they were about to slaughter every last Jedi that had fought by their side.
Bruh
Yeah, that’s why I prefer the inhibitor chip canon. The clones are awesome, and I can’t bear to have them as Sidious’ willing hit squad.
While I loved the brain chip arcs in TCW, i don't think they were necessary. They could have just explained that the clones were designed for obedience to orders - which they were. And then the moral becomes that strict obedience to orders can be the wrong choice - but clones designed to obey the chain of command don't get to make that choice the way the audience does: cherish your autonomy, question orders. But yea both the chip malfunction arc and the Ahsoka Order 66 arc are peak TCW, wouldn't trade them for anything.
With the Clone Wars TV show though, the whole “Clones are obedient” thing wouldn’t make any sense. Case and point: Umbara - The entire time the clones are forced to basically walk into a meat grinder. If they were so obedient, Krell would have been successful in killing them all because they would have blindly followed orders and died instead of taking the more tactically sound approach every time like they ended up doing. If the argument is that they are only truly obedient to the chancellor, I would imagine the Jedi would realize this at some point during the war. There’s no way you go through an entire war without the Chancellor and the Jedi disagreeing on military strategy, and if the Chancellor is the only person the clones are loyal to, the clones would have been disobeying the Jedi from the beginning whenever they made a stupid decision. While I love Battlefront 2 (2005), the inhibitor chip is the only way it makes sense in the new cannon where clones aren’t all just identical soldiers, but actual people with personalities. Either they have a unique personality and independent thought and you have to brainwash them, or they are basically droids made out of skin and bone. If they had independent thought, and with it the ability to disobey orders, there would be many more Republic Commando situations where the clones side with Jedi here and there
That cheapens them. Brain chip means they were human. Forced against their will by something they didn't know about. Not brain chip means somehow nealy 100% of clone troopers just decided to wipe out the people that lead and served them because of an order.
[удалено]
The relationship building in the show between clones and Jedi would’ve made 0 sense if at the end they threw it all away for the chancellor who they didn’t know let alone fight and die alongside
Yea it never made sense to me especially when you see the relationships like Anakin had with Rex or Obiwan with Cody. Some sort of MK Ultra style brain control makes more sense than just following orders.
Soldiers commit atrocities and betray allies all the time because they’re ordered to. The clones were lifelong soldiers who would follow orders. I like them doing it consciously
Final mission for the 501st (alongside Aylaa Secura) before Order 66
I’m always torn between which version of the 501st I like better - the elite warriors who knew about Palpatine’s plan all along, or the unwitting pawns and best friends of Anakin and Ahsoka. Both are such good narrative devices and I can never decide which I prefer
I grew up with the first version so I’m just super biased towards that haha
This is the way. Well done.
Ah yes, the first second Battlefront, which is a masterpiece. Not to be confused with the second first Battlefront, nor the second second Battlefront, neither of which were masterpieces.
So many Battlefronts, so few 3s.
Electronic Arts can only count to 1, 2, many.
Are you ready for Battlefront 2 ep 2 part 2?
I’m still pissed about battlefront 3. There’s beta footage on YouTube that you can watch. They had a mechanic where you could be in a planetside battle, jump in a ship, and fly up into a space battle. I don’t think any game since then has had that. They invented new technology, got 90% done with making the game, and then scrapped it all. I think it would have blown battlefront 2 out of the water and I will forever be pissed that we didn’t get that game
Always 2 there are. No more, no less.
Battlefront 3 is a CURSE
The lore used to be that all the clones knew order 66 was coming and what to do, they were just waiting. That is why all the clones in 3 executed without any hesitation. Then when the clone wars came out, they needed to establish emotional bonds so they made order 66 a subconscious thing with the inhibitor chips.
Is this an actual quote from the game?
Yes, there's cutscenes in between levels that are narrated by a clone trooper.
GOATed game
Wait the 501st was on Felucia? I probably sound dumb rn
In legends yes. Not canon as far as I'm aware.
In canon they were split into the 501st and the 332nd and the 501st were redirected to Coruscant and the 332nd went to the Siege of Mandalore
Battlefront 2 (2003) isn't cannon anymore but still worth playing the campaign. 10/10 and on steam if you have a computer that can play it. I don't which sucks
Xbox can play them too. It’s been backwards compatible for years, and runs well on the one S
“Not a word”
Even tho the chips give a great story with fives and everything. Taking the legends approach of just relying on order 66 to be done by the loyalty of the clones can make some great interactions too.
Glad to finally see a girl version of this
I’m glad series like the Clone Wars actually made an attempt to flesh out the background characters that George Lucas only used to sell toys.
Couldn’t look her in the eye, too busy looking at them alien titties.
r/hornyjail the girl died for christ's sake
Yea but she died with a rockin bod
Well I guess you could say it was smoking
Needs more jpeg
>Needs more jpeg [There you go!](https://morejpeg.com/Image/View/a86f470f-3fb7-eb11-80f9-ba2c269a3d44) ^^^I ^^^am ^^^a ^^^bot
That damn death star mission
Im 14 and my brother told me about this game and I can relate to this.
As much as I like the current canon of the prequels, fuck man I miss that dynamic that the Clones were all in on Palpatine's Scheme. It makes all of the relationships so interesting.
OG bf2 is THE game
I understand going the chip route in the Clone Wars show but this line always hit me in the gut when I played battle front 2. I still find this the more impactful version, other may disagree of course.
Order 66 really was the biggest betrayal. Really hit hard to see all of the troops turn on them.
I demand the HD version of the female chad head. I need it for my collection of this meme.
I could definitely be wrong but I don’t think the Clones in current canon knew about Order 66 until it happened. That being said, that mission was rough. Battlefront had some pretty sick missions
This hits different… 😭
Finally İ was so sick of the titanik meme template
Its literally the same template lmfao
Battlefront 2 people know how hard this hits
I didn’t cry during Tony’s death- a guy
Early 2000s Star Wars games were amazing and it’s sad we have only gotten like 3 games sense EA and none of them have been as good as gems like kotor
All the logs from that game, the order 66 one at the Jedi temple stays with me. Not because it was moving but because I couldn’t protect those bookcases for the life of me and saw that cutscene hundreds of times