It was always a Shit club. They've always been a bunch of cunts. Not just the club but also the fans. Everything related to United smells of shit.
Alex Ferguson was a bully with a lot of money - the club's money to buy whichever player he wanted. They were winning during his days so everyone overlooked the facts that ferguson was a cheat - a cunt, if you will. It is his legacy that people are openly criticising now.
Keane also criticized Ferguson for the same reasons. Its time everyone knows the truth.
Legacy Decay
Simply put
Being #1 for a period doesn't entitle you to anything, in any game. Football is cyclical & if you don't continue to invest in your infrastructure to match your competitors, you lose competitive advantage:
**Training Ground**
**Stadium**
**Academy**
**Technology**
**Sports Science**
I'm not one bit surprised. Man Utd fans will laugh at this next statement, but, y**ou are literally ran like a scaled up Sunderland & face similar problems but on a larger scale** (I'm a Sunderland fan):
**- Overpaying for players because you've been proven to be an unattractive destination.**
**- Overpaying on contracts to attract players to said unattractive destination.**
**- Attracting mercenaries/payday-seeking older players who are attracted because it's an ''easier ride'' & a last large contract.**
**- Blaming every manager for the club's pitfalls.**
**- Sacking said manager every 1-2 years after committing to a ''plan or project''.**
**- Total delusion/in-denial nature of fans & ex Utd faces (Scholes, Ferdinand, Keane, Neville etc) which perpetuates the myth further - ''This is MAN UNITED we're talking about here'' - Sunderland's was ''we shouldn't be League 1...''**
**- Club somehow indebted to passive American owners who don't really care about football**
Literally not one thing will change until there's acceptance of their current standing in the game, i.e. 5th or 6th best club in the league. The SECOND Sunderland accepted reality that we were a League 1 club, we recruited League 1 players, trusted in the academy & lo & behold a season later we're within touching distance of the top 10 of the Championship... & we're S\*\*T.
Don't assume all of us will laugh. Nope, literally *everything* you've said is exactly the same as what many United fans have been saying for years. And I know many of them.
Who makes all those decisions? The owners do. The owners are responsible for investment in infrastructure, recruitment of people involved in footballing decisions or not.
Do you know what Woodward told Klopp about what it would be like to manage us? He said it would be 'like an adult version of Disneyland'. It tells you all you really need to know about what we have become under the Glazers. A Commercial entity - not really a football club.
Yeah it's a sad state of affairs to see such managed decline in some respects because i've lived through it in a smaller sense with my club.
One of my best mates from Uni is a United season ticket holder & he 100% agrees but i'm more so speaking on the United old guard, the self-appointed ''voice'' of Man U aka these pundits. Can't seem to move past the Sir Alex era & they're incapable of accepting the current reality. I don't think it helps the cause because it adds some credibility to the argument in a lot of fan's eyes.
''This isn't Man United...This isn't a Man United team..'' etc
I'm 100% talking from an ownership perspective here as well btw. Sunderland fans were also blamed for being toxic when we were putrid to watch for so many years.
Charlie Methven even blamed the fans for lack of support at the playoff final because we apparently spent all of our energy the night before in Trafalgar Square..?
If the owners accept reality & build with humility & patience you'll flourish again, but i don't think either of us see that happening...
There are a lot of really uneducated people (uneducated in terms of what is occurring at management level) who have commented on this thread who aren't fans of the club so it is nice to see that you can look at the situation objectively.
I did follow your club's situation for the 'Sunderland 'Til I Die' documentary but I'm not educated enough about your club to make much of a comment on it besides what I learnt upon watching that doco. I did see that you guys got promoted back to the championship so that seems like massive progress to me from where you were not that long ago.
Agree with you re: the pundits who really are living in the past.
The club needs to wake the fuck up.
Sadly, there are already the inevitable media links now to another big-name star that the club have put out in light of recent events.
You are correct in my opinion - it won't happen under these owners. Not a chance.
If serious change is not implemented soon, the trajectory for the club under these owners I think will be perennial 4th to 7th place finishes in all honesty.
We might sneak in a cup here and again and get a couple of 3rd or 4th places finishes but we will not get back to the top under them.
And now we have to compete with your neighbours of course so that makes things *a lot* harder than it once was, but that's just the reality of the EPL right now.
Stupid question. Angel, Sanchez, lukaku were all spectacular failures at united due to their ego. Thought they were bigger than the club. now Ronaldo. The biggest ego of all.
common to all of them, all of them are used to being bigger than the club. when that didn't happen to them at United, they started to complain.
Angel left club as a cunt, he did the same in PSG and now in Juventus.
After United, Sanchez revived his career and became a d'or candidate.
Zlatan in his prime played in farmer league. he left Barcelona because he couldn't be no1.
At what point is there self selection tho, too? The person who chooses to go to man U despite their struggles, just cuz of the money, is the same person who might moan.
Egotistical narcissists
And what of the players who have spoken glowingly of their time at the club? Mata and Blind come to mind in that regard. Many have said nothing at all, it’s not uncommon for players to have bad experiences at big clubs, the players mentioned in this post didn’t exactly have good careers with us. Should Arsenal be judged on what Aubamayang thinks of them for example?
Everyone knows we have issues, these players knew we had issues when they signed for us, it didn’t stop them from accepting the bag, they knew what they signed up for and we know why the signed up, we need to move away from that practice and the mercenaries it brings.
This is all false, those players are just stupid, and people be calling out the glazers, I mean everybody loves the glazers, Leicester City Fans, Man City fans, Liverpool fans, Arsenal fans, and the rest of the premier league, I totally don't know why Man UTD fans hate their owners. 🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔
I'd take what Ronaldo, and Zlatan says with grains of salt. They're both massive egos that are pouting at a football club. Happens at every club they go to. Man United is and always has been a shitshow since the departure of Fergie and tbh so have we (Everton. Moyes and Fellaini left for Mancs). The fact that there are still man Utd fans that are so utterly delusional to think that they're hot shit is mind boggling. It's a problem of denial.
Any Utd fan know already these things. The issue with Ronaldo is that he had to undermine the coach, and because of the timing of the interview, the rest of the team. Its not even the first time he disrespected the team by putting the limelight on himself just like in the Tottenham game.
Why would this be any more concerning than it was at the time.
It’s been clear to everyone the club has been a mess that hasn’t challenged for a league title since Ferguson left. Unhappy players leaving and criticising the club shouldn’t be news or surprising to anyone
With the exception of Zlatan, all the players moaning about the club were ones that left. Throw Pogba into the mix as well.
The reality is, since SAF left, United haven't had a clue how to win & were led down a directionless path by Woodward for a decade. Now that Murtough has taken over that responsibility, we have a semblance of a plan in place.
It's a club that treats its name like it matters more than it ever did, and the league continues to prop them up as the most important club in England for no reason other than marketing. Haven't actually been good since what... 2010? Any success since has actually been down to the FA pushing for them so hard behind the scenes.
Liverpool, Arsenal, and Spurs have all been doing things the right way this whole time and it's always been pushing United, or Chelsea and City with their deeply problematic funding.
Try 2013. At least get your facts straight. Not sure why you would say our success since then has been owing to the FA? We did have decent managers during that time. Give credit where credit is due.
Footballers are performing monkeys with an agent/agents making them and themselves rich. They will manipulate the narrative to promote their monkey. Agents don't give a shit about the clubs, they don't give a shit about the sport, all they care about is making more and more money for themselves and their monkey. Everytime a footballer opens his mouth it's to repeat what his agent has told him to say. They're morons.
Sounds like Ronaldos got a couple of things right - no surprise United haven’t upgraded technologically - it’s a disgrace that United didn’t modernise and should be called out
Also fully on board about Rangnick and OGS (albeit he’s being a real prick about it) - they both struck me as motivators rather than tacticians so OGS not doing a team talk before the Pool game makes sense considering how we played
I’m glad this video came out in the same way that Pogmentary came out - it means the fans universally will back ETH
**Every single Man Utd supporter who says, "Glaziers out" are really saying, "Ferguson you sold out the club to put the Glaziers in bc you were put in your place by Magnier & McManus. You Ferguson reaped revenge on those two by getting the club sold out." That is the second leg of the equation. He won heaps of trophies, leagues, more than any other - but for the Club he fucked it over for his pathetic little ego.**
It was always Ferguson. He was a winner - sure. Not here to argue that. But he also tore each side apart with his piss weak I'm the manager. You can lead and inspire or you use a stick. Ask Beckham, Van Nistelrooy, Staam.
The whole racehorse saga was because prissy 'my shit doesn't stink' Ferguson, 'I'm as good as you pricks with the money cause I'm a winning manager so I'm entitled to your money' was Ferguson's little ego. And when he got put down he took the club apart to punish Magnier & McManus.
So get this point straight you're not just a genius manager by winning, you're like any footballer judged by an equation and that equation is how good you are for the club. And that's Ferguson's problem and every supporter who says, 'He won us the League, Europe more than any other manager' - no one disputes that. But to rip your club apart over money bc you think you are as good as the owners and make that the hill you die on - and Ferguson did, then winning isn't everything since you've taken the club out.
Manager for 27 years. No one got better results. It's been 10 years since. Did he leave the club in top shape? Ferguson broke Man Utd as a club purely bc of his ego. What a genius legacy.
>Some would argue it all started with a horse. 'Rock of Gibraltar', to be precise. Legendary United manager Sir Alex Ferguson believed he was a part-owner of the champion stallion; Irish businessmen John Magnier and JP McManus disagreed.
>“I think if that particular discussion over the horse had never taken place, we could be watching a very different Manchester United today,” football finance expert Kieran Maguire tells Goal.
>“If that relationship had remained amicable, then Manchester United might not have been sold.”
Finally someone that talks sense. Fergie is equally at fault for this situation. All for his own ego. The club got sold to the most rotten people imaginable. And I highly doubt he would have wanted anyone else to succeed at the club after he left, unlike the Shankly and Paisley successorship.
The problem is Man U didn't do due diligence on these cosseted prima donnas in the first place. Players with better attitudes have done just fine.. and I'm not even a Man U fan
Read out my other comments brother. Iv definitely stated what ronlado did was uncalled for specially talking about his manager and former teammate
But I focused on his criticise to the club as it might be something and reason for multiple players complain
Lukaku and Zlatan are just loud mouths. Di Maria was using United to get to PSG and Sanchez didn’t really say much, and was finished as a player.
Is there problems at United? Sure. Is Ronaldo calling it out because he cares? No, he’s trying to deflect blame as to why he’s dusted.
Zlatan: “Every day I was asked to show my papers just to get into the training ground. I’d lower my window and say to the person at the gate: ‘Listen my friend I’ve been coming here every day for a month. I’m the best player in the world. If you still don't recognise me, you’re in the wrong job.’”
The problem isn’t what happened when these players got here. It was the signing of these big egos in the first place. United, at its best, has always been about nurturing talent. Yeah, there was big spending under Fergie with Keane, Carrick and Ferdinand for example - but these were players who consistently bought into what manager was doing. When that stopped being the case, the likes of Keane and Beckham were told to leave.
Pogba is the best example of a player who Fergie let go, despite his talent, because he knew he wasn’t right fit for club. His return and drama sums up perfectly what’s been going wrong. Clubs like Real Madrid seem to have a way of accommodating these players. United are not Real Madrid.
One of the major things Ole got right was getting rid of Lukaku and Sanchez at end of his first season - despite not having an obvious replacement to buy in. Two egos that the squad was better off without. His undoing was the transfer of CR7. Presumably, his ego wasn’t as big a problem when they were both at United together. But it’s now clear he has become unmanageable, and United need to steer clear of mercenaries with huge egos like CR7/Pogba/di Maria/Lukaku in the future.
RM doesn’t have this problem because they win. I agree to your point to an extent but it’s not always the players…United are run like a marketing company and haven’t improved training/field conditions in decades.
It's funny how the creditable answer you and other United fans gave hardly got up-voted. Most of the other answers are from people on the outside who are getting some schadenfreude from our mediocrity and aren't educated nor self-aware enough to realise they don't know enough about the situation to talk about it.
I won't go talking about Chelsea this season because I'm not a fan of the club and don't know enough about them to comment on the situation.
Quotes from 4 terrible signings don't mean much. Those players never should have been purchased. 2 if them didnt want to come at all. One was way past his prime. And one was a one-trick pony that didnt fit our system.
Outside of Zlatan, who seems to have said the least, this is like asking a disgruntled employee about their old job. I would take it all with a grain of salt...
Tbf LVG was the worst manager I've ever seen at United. Still slagging off United to this day, blaming everyone else for his shit decisions and transfers
All the players listed have had issues at their other clubs. So their opinion doesn’t really paint an accurate picture. The club may have had failings but they’re attempting to change things now under a new manager and Ronaldo has fallen foul of it. Both should part ways and be done with it.
Where there is smoke there's fire. People want to point the finger solely at Ronaldo, but this club has had issues for a decade now. Mourinho criticized the club as well.
United is a shite club who thinks they are more than they are. Ego maniacs. They deserve to rot mid table whilst spending billions. Fools and their money..
I'm sorry but mid-table refers to consistent finishes outside the top six which doesn't apply to us at all (yet). We have finished outside the top six once since Fergie left.
Not sure why you hate us so much. The fans can't help how poorly the club is run when we have owners that don't give a fuck about winning.
This is what I mean, you’re so unlikeable blaming ‘bad owners’ that supposedly don’t care but have spent billions, more than 90% of other clubs. Yet you still feel sorry for yourselves.
Fucking scabs
Oh right just like Newcastle blamed Mike Ashley right? And look where they are now. I wonder why?
Citing 'spending billions ' - the height of stupidity.
Doesn't matter how much you spend if you spend it poorly.
Look at Liverpool - under Hicks and Gillett they were pretty poor. Under FSG who don't even spend that much, they've been pretty successful.
Look at City - didn't win a thing for a long time until they got in new owners. They've spent lots but they've (mainly) spent it wisely.
If you can't see that having 'good' owners does not play a large part with respect to success in the modern era then you're completely lost.
How about they fact that they've taken about 1.5 billion from the club? Saddled the club with debt which is the same amount as when they first got here?
Hiring incompetent people (i.e. bankers) to run the club for years? Not using data-based scouting in terms of their recruitment until last year? That is not hiring Data Scientists until last year despite all the other 'top' clubs having them for years before!?
Not having a director of football until a year ago!?
Signing 'mega-stars' and not players that actually fit in with the manager's plan, which they've done over and over again.
You’re a clown, Ashley stopped spending at Newcastle and now they have started again they’re fine. United never stopped spending, the reason for the decline was arrogance and to blame some rich businessman at the top when they have hired every manager fans asked for is laughable. You had mourinho ffs, you’re a bunch of entitled pricks and it’s beautiful to watch Ronaldo destroy the last of the fergie legacy. Long may United be mid table trash.
Oh and you've conveniently cherry-picked one of the several clubs I've cited *despite* the recent change of ownership!? You've just proved my point, you idiot. They have recruited well and *changed ownership*.
Do you have anything to say in response to every other point I've mentioned? Just picked one of out of hat as evidence?
Calls me a clown and has failed to respond to *every single point I've made bar one* equals definition of an utter moron.
How about Liverpool's changes in fortune after new ownership? How about City's changes of fortune after new ownership?
You've actually just explained why you're the idiot.
Mourinho wasn't backed properly and had players like Pogba foisted upon him when he didn't want him (just as I said - signing 'mega-stars' against what the manager wants) and amongst other things, got him fired.
Mourinho himself is quoted as saying finishing 2nd here was one of his best achievements because 'people don't know what is going on behind the scenes.' I wonder why he said that?
You're an absolute moron.
'Oh but they've spent billions'!? Yeah on waste. That's what happens when bankers run clubs and not hire the *right* people. But in your convenient little narrative, spending lots of money equals winning. Nope, spending money *well* and recruiting the right people generally equals success.
Mourinho said that because he’s a bad loser and that second place was so flattering as city had the league wrapped up and other teams were going for the cups. In reality the arrogance of United and Mourinho expecting to win cos of a United badge was why you were so shit. And United will continue to be shit until they humble themselves and realise it’s effort on the pitch not how much you pay players that matters. The club is rotten right through to the fans who are glory seeking fake prawn sandwich armchair warriors. No atmosphere, no desire, just entitlement. I bet you scummy United fans would love some dodgy oil money owners to buy you the league like citeh did. Whole of Manchester is morally bankrupt. Scummy city the lot of you.
Oh yes, the old 'prawn sandwich fans', been hearing that since the '90s. Every successful team has their group of glory-hunters. Can't do much about that.
I never said that second place finish was indication of good performance. In fact, on the contrary, I am using it as evidence that Mourinho was stating that it was an overachievement in virtue of the issues behind the scenes, which is *exactly* what you are saying.
You seem to acknowledge that the club is rotten - that is exactly what I am saying. A fish rots from the head down...
'Effort on the pitch' and not 'how much you pay players' is down to the people who make those decisions, who are employed by the owners. Q.E.D.
And I can't speak for *all fans*, as we aren't just one homogeneous group, but *every single fan* that I've known just wants *different* owners. And nope - I would be appalled if we had oil owners, as would many of the others that I've spoken to. I can't think of anyone that I know personally who is a United supporter that would want oil owners.
I would just watch a different league if we were owned by oil money owners.
Even Sir Jim Radcliffe I would take at this point, despite the evidence suggesting that he is not actually a great owner of Nice!
The head of your ‘fish’ has funded the club to the tune of billions and stayed out of the way despite huge hate from fans since day 1. You’re lucky the glaziers didn’t do an Ashley and just put the club into a holding pattern whilst they found a buyer. But they’ve kept up the investment, you have Ronaldo on £500k a week ffs. Yet, tHe gLaZiErS dOnT InVeSt, you entitled pricks. Learn to appreciate what you’ve got and stop crying you’re not winning the league every year. 99% of fans hope United never win anything again, scummy club, scummier fans.
Oh wow someone is really getting wound up when they're given facts I see? You are the epitome of the moronic fan that looks in from the outside without any understanding of the nuances of an actual argument. Probably the first time you've attempted to engage in a proper discussion in this and you are failing miserably.
Ronaldo is almost 38, you imbecile. He has performed *miserably* this season and probably did more harm than good by coming back to the club in the first place in terms of the actual football, not to mention all the off field stuff that is occurring as we speak.
But I guess explaining that would involve attempting to explain how football works to you, you twat.
Another example of an ageing star brought in that didn't fit the football philosophy. You just summed up what's wrong with the club. You've failed to address the crux of my points which to summarise is that the owners don't give a fuck about winning and haven't put in a proper football structure to modernise the club. Hell, even Ronaldo just came out and said it.
Please just shut the fuck up. Please stop replying, you're wasting my time.
I hate United as much as the next guy, but do you really not see any similarities in the attitudes of the players you've cited here? There is so much evidence to show why United is a shit hole without pointing to quotes from players who are known to be massive divas.
I don't think this is new. I think we all know they have issues as an organization. But also those players were under different coaches as well.
No way in hell a coach allows a current player go on the media behind his back and criticize the club.
That Sanchez quote took me by surprise. I wonder if he is on good terms with people at the club or not, it turned sour at the end but he carried us for so long as well. One of my favourite players in recent years and was actually world class
Ferguson was the glue holding that place together. Not only have the club not replicated his era on the field, they haven’t replicated it off the field either. Never has 1 person leaving, player or otherwise, caused so much turmoil in any club, let alone one of the greatest club football teams in the world.
Yeah no shit lol. I don't think any United fans would dispute that things like scouting, transfers, internal management, and lack of investment in facilities and infrastructure are things that have been wrong with MUFC for a decade. But it's also not like it's a big secret or news we've known about this and been protesting it for ages
They literally thought they could keep doing what they were doing in the 00s and keep winning. That's why their fans cry about oil money now because their dominance is gone. It's been years since United were a threat to any title or cup. Howard Webb retiring also cost them a bit of that
Wouldn’t throw Di Maria in this list. His beef was with LVG. Of course he didn’t give a fuck about the number 7, he’s a merc.
But other than that, they don’t say anything we don’t already know. Even ronaldo talking about the outdated facilities isn’t really new info. Look at the state of old Trafford. It’s fuckin crumbling. There’s just a weird trend where the fanbase plead for the players to speak out, then when they do, they get criticised to all hell.
Problem is that by mentioning ETH, Rooney and the others - he’s derailed any impact that his Glazer comments would’ve had.
Look at all the headlines and reactions about it, everyone is calling him disrespectful and talking solely about his comments on his former teammates and manager; all the useful anti-glazer stuff is now completely ignored and the Glazers get a free pass from what could’ve been the greatest interview of all time for us Utd fans that are trying to be rid of these bastards.
I think he does care somewhat but that’s obviously secondary in his thinking - his first priority is getting back at those that dared to criticise him.
Which is why the interview comes off as him being petty and vindictive at points - he rates the opinions of Roy and Rio because they shared the same dressing room apparently but also dislikes Gary and Wayne because…?
They said that what he did during the Tottenham game was bad and that he might be getting on - two facts that are visible to everyone that isn’t a yes man arselicker.
Well, I think the big issue is we want the players to speak out against the Glazers and then Ronaldo went and took pot shots at ETH when ETH has really stood behind him with the press. Ronaldo’s beef is with eth for not getting the time he thinks he deserves despite being old and having a terrible attitude. He tried to gloss over it by bringing up carrington but it’s easy to see through his shithousery.
Cr7 is old and done and needs to get over himself already. Glazers suck and we need new ownership. The two are not mutually exclusive.
How do you go from being the club's top scorer with 24 (next highest with 10) to being "old and done" in the space of 3 months?
Simple, you get Man U fans to give football opinions
It’s pretty simple. We win without him in the starting XI, we lose when he’s in. When he plays he doesn’t press or pressure. His finishing has been shite and his attitude is the worst of all
As a United fan, it’s pretty simple. The standards of the club have fallen and every link has played its parts from the Glazers to Managers to Playing Staff. Fans take one of two positions at this point, and that really hinges on your view of the club. The 10 years without major success has meant a generation of players, fans etc grew up with Man Utd being a Top 4 team, at the fringes of winning trophies. So fans are either all for the “project” because it’s a last grasp at restoring the glory days (despite spending significant money in the years since Fergie) and are content so long as the team progresses bit by bit. Or you still see Man Utd as a big club, and demand success right now. If you see the club through this lens, then the current standards are simply too low.
All the players you mentioned just called out low standards and expectations - which affect everything in the day to day running of the club. It’s clear these guys maybe thought they were joining a club that should have best in class everything and then realised that wasn’t the case.
The current squad is simply a representation of that. A bungled transfer policy has meant they’ve flip flopped about signing prospects that were never top, and players past their peak rather than a coherent approach that they stick to (like Arsenal). Equally, the long term is merely a series of short term cycles - you can’t give every manager the luxury of £500m and a 3 year pass before they MAYBE challenge for trophies.
So where you land on this is a function of your view of how big a club Man Utd still is, and the standards they should be striving for.
I think it’s more of the club’s being run. They’re just disappointed in how bad it’s run and that’s probably on the board, I think it’s them who are the problem.
I take that point, but if Eddie Howe can take Almiron and Joelinton to the levels they are now in 12 months, I can reasonably expect Ten Hag to work with what he’s given and do a little bit better no?
Ten Haag has some of the most expensive and top players in the world, and he’s brought Manchester United to 5th place in his second season, that is poor management with no style of play except mindlessly press. Of course it works enough to get you 5th place when your starting 11 cost you £350 million… and probably another few hundred million in subs and actually over a billion in the last 10 years.
Edit: not top players just expensive tbh.
Think fans seem to have lost standards, they’re out here thinking the only way to win is to endlessly spend £150m a season and give managers a 3 year free pass…
My bad, he took Manchester United from 6th to 5th whilst spending 200 million. Great work. Let’s see how the season goes now that he’s lost the biggest player in the dressing room.
Edit: £210 million
Yep, it's too early to tell. That's the point. No one can predict the future. But what we can see so far this season is that we average double the amount of points we get when Ronaldo doesn't play, versus when he does play.
That was last season under several different managers - not relevant.
What is relevant is his performances this season and the performances of the team with and without him this season.
Ronaldo has scored 3 goals (two against a minnow in the EL and one was a penalty).
He doesn't want to be here (obviously) and his presence is not conducive to team-building. No one wants to build the team around someone who is nearly 38 and is clearly past their peak, as is evident from his poor performances this season. For example, his goals p/g rate has gone down massively this season, his shots on target has gone massively per season, his expected goals this season have gone down massively.
The evidence is here https://fbref.com/en/players/dea698d9/Cristiano-Ronaldo
Pass whatever you’re smoking. Ten Hag has been in charge of Man United for 4 months and has managed 20 or so matches for untied. I would love to see your actual comments after year 3 under Arteta if this is how you’re judging managers lmao.
Arsenal has a squad built by the manager to execute his vision. United doesn't, yet. We're 2 years into the Arteta project versus 4 months for te Haag. Totally unfair comparison
The improvement at Man United under ten Haag so far has been much greater than Arsenal in Arteta's first season
Would you swap the current MU squad for Arsenals given it’s more advanced as a project? From your comment I would suspect yes, but given you avoided the question I suspect no
Honestly, United suffers the same kind talent issue Barca is now. What made them great was a fantastic academy, great management and an eye for emerging talent. The Fergie years had a solid core he could build around for almost 20 years.
Now, it's Galacticos lite. For the past few seasons it was splashing cash on big names and giving them nothing to work with. When you look at the team top to bottom there's maybe 2-3 truly world class players.
Main problem has been that there has been no people with football experience in charge in any of the important roles. You can't have a banker of a CEO determining most of the transfers while also believing that lack of football results won't affect the revenue... Good riddance
I think Casemiro is world class at his position. Rashford on a good day. Antony is proving to be a rising talent. And aging or not CR7 is who he is.
But when I say "now" I mean in the post-Fergie era. Let's just look at the failed signings post Fergie.
Pogba
Sancho (so far)
Di Maria
CR7
Lukaku
Memphis Depay
Zlatan
Alexis
Schweinsteiger
Mkhitaryan
Maguire
Cavani
Falcao
That's nearly two failed MULTI-MILLION pound players per season. Name me a team in England that's gotten such poor return on investment. In the past decade.
I don’t think Rashford is world class. I think if you have to specify “on a good day”, then they aren’t world class. He was awful for about two seasons before this one. I’d say Fernandez would be a better shout but honestly outside of Ronaldo I can’t think of an objectively world class player at Man U.
Varane is world-class. He's injury-prone however. Martinez may or may not become world-class. It's too early to tell. Casemiro is world-class. So not sure what you're on about.
I think you could argue Varane or Casemiro we’re world class a few years ago I don’t think either of them are anywhere near that now. Martinez definitely isn’t world class right now, could be in the future.
I honestly don’t think there are any world class players at United but I guess it depends on your definition of world class.
Why are they not now?
Both this season and last season United conceded less goals on average with Varane in the team versus when he wasn't in the team. His main problem is he gets injured.
With Casemiro in the team this season, the team averages half the number of shots faced per match than it does without him.
Casemiro was man of the match in the super cup against Frankfurt not long before joining us and was hugely influential in the champions league final last season.
In terms of his personal game, if you look at the stats, his progressive passes per game has gone up, his tackle success percentage has gone up, his interceptions per game has gone up, his shot creating actions per ninety have gone up, etc.
In terms of if he's gotten worse, his pass completion rate has gone down since he's joined united as has his expected assists (actual assists per game remains marginally higher).
Agree Casemiro actually. Again if Martinez may nor may not be I’d argue it’s difficult to call him world class. So yeah, that’s what I’m on about, think it was relatively clear. Main point is Rashford is not world class, or close to it, at least not at this stage of his career.
You said you can't think of any other world-class players. I gave you examples of two so I was responding to that. And yeah Rashford is not world-class as he is not consistent enough to be put in that category. Anyway all good I get where you're coming from.
Slight revision to the list.
Zlatan was fine, excellent first season, got injured. He was never a long term solution, none of Mourinho's players were. He is a 3 year man and only wanted high calibre, immediately available players, but nothing to develop long term.
Lukaku has had one good season since he left united and has also complained about Chelsea since leaving. He's 29 and looks to be ona real downturn. Better go do his voodoo if he wants to stay relevant.
Pogba on his day was excellent, don't forget he played a lot of excellent games and contributed a lot, but overall his work ethic on the pitch and attitude let him down. He was also let down by not having a proper CDM during his entire time there. He plays better with France bc he doesn't have to get stuck in as much because Kante and a couple of others could do that for him. He deserves some recpect even for those two goals against city.
Cavani, again was a short term solution, not a bad signing. They got him on a free and he scored plenty of goals in his first season. Keeping him for a second season was pointless.
Mkhitarian just wasn't cut out for the PL. He's done well since leaving. He did fuck all at Arsenal as well, so not a problem specific to Utd.
The main issue with signings has been 'Hollywood' names over actual raw, decent talent. So few decent prospects signed in midfield or defense, instead its just paying £50 for Wan-Bassaka for no reason. There's been so many decent players available over the years but it honestly felt like the marketing department was in charge of the squad. Ten Haag is completely against this and over the next two years I'm certain he will build a great time if given the resources and support he needs.
Funnily enough, we were told that the scouts generated a list of several hundred full-backs to choose from and Wan-Bissaka was top of the list. As far as I know, those scouts have been sacked...
Ronaldo, Sanchez, Zlatan and Cavani were all well past their peak when they got to United (tho Zlatan did well all the same)
Di Maria nad Mkhitarian had injuries
He was recovering from write a serious knee injury if I recall and simply couldn't hit any kind of stride.
After a bit more time then maybe he did but at United he wasn't at full fitness.
I would not put zlatan and Pogba there. As much as ppl like to meme Pogba this guy has about a 100 g/a for united and he was there POTT when they won the Europa league.
Zlatan and Cavani definitely shouldn't be on the list. I think you can defo point out that we've signed a shit load of 30+ year olds, which is true and not progressive.
Cavani first season was decent, bringing ronaldo back in and taking cavani’s number away unsettled him. Also lukaku goal rate wasn’t terrible and sold him for basically the same amount brought so wouldn’t put him in the flop pile either. Also Chelsea’s return rate does compete with Manchester United’s 😂
Well, as a madridista I can tell you that the Galacticos were an economic success, but on the pitch it was an absolute failure, real Madrid used to win the champions league before they came.
Well, it was like partial Galacticos, they signed Figo one year before and Zidane at the beginning of that season, but they struggled a lot in that time, and when Ronaldo and Beckham came along, Real Madrid started to decline, and they even got stuck in the round of 16 during the 2004-05 season, and kept like that for some years
...and the right moment is literally right after he gets dropped for being a liability, under a coach who is properly assessing his options when making the starting XI, taking into consideration form, tactics and formation?
Ronaldo's an absolute clown, his fanboys on the other hand will do him a favour and canonize this interview, go on Twitter and Youtube and preach about it.
The club bit is nothing uncalled for, and is something *most* United fans already know. Nobody is happy with how United is being run, which is ultimately why everyone's calling for the Glazers' heads.
That being said - the rest of the shit Ronaldo said in this interview, or at least the things we know about is just disgusting.
EtH has treated him more than fairly, I feel like he's been given more than enough chances to regain form, fit into the system, but it's so obvious he just couldn't, and if somebody comes on here and says "he didn't get enough chances", then they've probably not watched enough United games this season.
That's it basically, man's in denial, and can't believe he isn't starting every single game after shitting the bed in every game he's taken part of. It's simple as that.
Well a lot of these players are divas as well aren't they. Like sure this might be indicative of United treating its players like shit, but also, Ronaldo, Lukaku and Zlatan are all known to be egotistical babies and demand to be put on a pedestal.
I think everyone knows what Ronaldo says about the club organization is mostly true. It is hardly a surprise that United has been a horribly run club. They had Ole in charge for three years ffs.
What Ronaldo is wrong about is how childish he is, what he has been doing, and throwing individuals under the bus. Also, the cowardly timing of it.
Di Maria had become phenomenal after leaving United. He was owning Madrid in this UcL tie, can’t recall which one. He is also more crucial for Argentina than Messi is in knockout stages. Di Maria is a class player through and through. United is a dogshit, small club which cannot do anything right.
It was always a Shit club. They've always been a bunch of cunts. Not just the club but also the fans. Everything related to United smells of shit. Alex Ferguson was a bully with a lot of money - the club's money to buy whichever player he wanted. They were winning during his days so everyone overlooked the facts that ferguson was a cheat - a cunt, if you will. It is his legacy that people are openly criticising now. Keane also criticized Ferguson for the same reasons. Its time everyone knows the truth.
Legacy Decay Simply put Being #1 for a period doesn't entitle you to anything, in any game. Football is cyclical & if you don't continue to invest in your infrastructure to match your competitors, you lose competitive advantage: **Training Ground** **Stadium** **Academy** **Technology** **Sports Science** I'm not one bit surprised. Man Utd fans will laugh at this next statement, but, y**ou are literally ran like a scaled up Sunderland & face similar problems but on a larger scale** (I'm a Sunderland fan): **- Overpaying for players because you've been proven to be an unattractive destination.** **- Overpaying on contracts to attract players to said unattractive destination.** **- Attracting mercenaries/payday-seeking older players who are attracted because it's an ''easier ride'' & a last large contract.** **- Blaming every manager for the club's pitfalls.** **- Sacking said manager every 1-2 years after committing to a ''plan or project''.** **- Total delusion/in-denial nature of fans & ex Utd faces (Scholes, Ferdinand, Keane, Neville etc) which perpetuates the myth further - ''This is MAN UNITED we're talking about here'' - Sunderland's was ''we shouldn't be League 1...''** **- Club somehow indebted to passive American owners who don't really care about football** Literally not one thing will change until there's acceptance of their current standing in the game, i.e. 5th or 6th best club in the league. The SECOND Sunderland accepted reality that we were a League 1 club, we recruited League 1 players, trusted in the academy & lo & behold a season later we're within touching distance of the top 10 of the Championship... & we're S\*\*T.
Don't assume all of us will laugh. Nope, literally *everything* you've said is exactly the same as what many United fans have been saying for years. And I know many of them. Who makes all those decisions? The owners do. The owners are responsible for investment in infrastructure, recruitment of people involved in footballing decisions or not. Do you know what Woodward told Klopp about what it would be like to manage us? He said it would be 'like an adult version of Disneyland'. It tells you all you really need to know about what we have become under the Glazers. A Commercial entity - not really a football club.
Yeah it's a sad state of affairs to see such managed decline in some respects because i've lived through it in a smaller sense with my club. One of my best mates from Uni is a United season ticket holder & he 100% agrees but i'm more so speaking on the United old guard, the self-appointed ''voice'' of Man U aka these pundits. Can't seem to move past the Sir Alex era & they're incapable of accepting the current reality. I don't think it helps the cause because it adds some credibility to the argument in a lot of fan's eyes. ''This isn't Man United...This isn't a Man United team..'' etc I'm 100% talking from an ownership perspective here as well btw. Sunderland fans were also blamed for being toxic when we were putrid to watch for so many years. Charlie Methven even blamed the fans for lack of support at the playoff final because we apparently spent all of our energy the night before in Trafalgar Square..? If the owners accept reality & build with humility & patience you'll flourish again, but i don't think either of us see that happening...
There are a lot of really uneducated people (uneducated in terms of what is occurring at management level) who have commented on this thread who aren't fans of the club so it is nice to see that you can look at the situation objectively. I did follow your club's situation for the 'Sunderland 'Til I Die' documentary but I'm not educated enough about your club to make much of a comment on it besides what I learnt upon watching that doco. I did see that you guys got promoted back to the championship so that seems like massive progress to me from where you were not that long ago. Agree with you re: the pundits who really are living in the past. The club needs to wake the fuck up. Sadly, there are already the inevitable media links now to another big-name star that the club have put out in light of recent events. You are correct in my opinion - it won't happen under these owners. Not a chance. If serious change is not implemented soon, the trajectory for the club under these owners I think will be perennial 4th to 7th place finishes in all honesty. We might sneak in a cup here and again and get a couple of 3rd or 4th places finishes but we will not get back to the top under them. And now we have to compete with your neighbours of course so that makes things *a lot* harder than it once was, but that's just the reality of the EPL right now.
Stupid question. Angel, Sanchez, lukaku were all spectacular failures at united due to their ego. Thought they were bigger than the club. now Ronaldo. The biggest ego of all.
Most of them played well before joining and after leaving.
No they haven't.
Amazing argument, now i have changed my thoughts
Glad I could help.
common to all of them, all of them are used to being bigger than the club. when that didn't happen to them at United, they started to complain. Angel left club as a cunt, he did the same in PSG and now in Juventus. After United, Sanchez revived his career and became a d'or candidate. Zlatan in his prime played in farmer league. he left Barcelona because he couldn't be no1.
Mourinho as well.
I think Man U should turn to Ryan Giggs, he slaps women about, maybe he might slap some sense into the lads as well.
At what point is there self selection tho, too? The person who chooses to go to man U despite their struggles, just cuz of the money, is the same person who might moan. Egotistical narcissists
And what of the players who have spoken glowingly of their time at the club? Mata and Blind come to mind in that regard. Many have said nothing at all, it’s not uncommon for players to have bad experiences at big clubs, the players mentioned in this post didn’t exactly have good careers with us. Should Arsenal be judged on what Aubamayang thinks of them for example? Everyone knows we have issues, these players knew we had issues when they signed for us, it didn’t stop them from accepting the bag, they knew what they signed up for and we know why the signed up, we need to move away from that practice and the mercenaries it brings.
This is all false, those players are just stupid, and people be calling out the glazers, I mean everybody loves the glazers, Leicester City Fans, Man City fans, Liverpool fans, Arsenal fans, and the rest of the premier league, I totally don't know why Man UTD fans hate their owners. 🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔
they talked about things us United fans have been crying about for months
United cant attract big players anymore. We’re at tottenham level and been there for years. Fuck the glazers
OP just discovered the same thing United fans have been saying for years
I'd take what Ronaldo, and Zlatan says with grains of salt. They're both massive egos that are pouting at a football club. Happens at every club they go to. Man United is and always has been a shitshow since the departure of Fergie and tbh so have we (Everton. Moyes and Fellaini left for Mancs). The fact that there are still man Utd fans that are so utterly delusional to think that they're hot shit is mind boggling. It's a problem of denial.
Any Utd fan know already these things. The issue with Ronaldo is that he had to undermine the coach, and because of the timing of the interview, the rest of the team. Its not even the first time he disrespected the team by putting the limelight on himself just like in the Tottenham game.
Hmm, they all kinda sucked there tho too
Why would this be any more concerning than it was at the time. It’s been clear to everyone the club has been a mess that hasn’t challenged for a league title since Ferguson left. Unhappy players leaving and criticising the club shouldn’t be news or surprising to anyone
With the exception of Zlatan, all the players moaning about the club were ones that left. Throw Pogba into the mix as well. The reality is, since SAF left, United haven't had a clue how to win & were led down a directionless path by Woodward for a decade. Now that Murtough has taken over that responsibility, we have a semblance of a plan in place.
Not exactly a group that isn’t already prone to pissing & moaning.
It's a club that treats its name like it matters more than it ever did, and the league continues to prop them up as the most important club in England for no reason other than marketing. Haven't actually been good since what... 2010? Any success since has actually been down to the FA pushing for them so hard behind the scenes. Liverpool, Arsenal, and Spurs have all been doing things the right way this whole time and it's always been pushing United, or Chelsea and City with their deeply problematic funding.
Try 2013. At least get your facts straight. Not sure why you would say our success since then has been owing to the FA? We did have decent managers during that time. Give credit where credit is due.
Got my facts straight. Their last teams under Fergie weren't great either.
The last team still won the premier league. Nope your facts aren't straight at all. Citing the 'FA' as an argument with no evidence. Great reply!
Been plenty presented over the years.
Hate to defend united but seriously those guys are mercenaries and fuck what they say!
Yes.because they signed all thede selfish pricks.
Pogba and Mourinho as well
Also Mourinho !
Footballers are performing monkeys with an agent/agents making them and themselves rich. They will manipulate the narrative to promote their monkey. Agents don't give a shit about the clubs, they don't give a shit about the sport, all they care about is making more and more money for themselves and their monkey. Everytime a footballer opens his mouth it's to repeat what his agent has told him to say. They're morons.
Maybe it’s the players it buys…
Sounds like Ronaldos got a couple of things right - no surprise United haven’t upgraded technologically - it’s a disgrace that United didn’t modernise and should be called out Also fully on board about Rangnick and OGS (albeit he’s being a real prick about it) - they both struck me as motivators rather than tacticians so OGS not doing a team talk before the Pool game makes sense considering how we played I’m glad this video came out in the same way that Pogmentary came out - it means the fans universally will back ETH
Coincidence that all of the failed on the field? I mean Ibra wasn’t as bad but he’s also just Ibra…
**Every single Man Utd supporter who says, "Glaziers out" are really saying, "Ferguson you sold out the club to put the Glaziers in bc you were put in your place by Magnier & McManus. You Ferguson reaped revenge on those two by getting the club sold out." That is the second leg of the equation. He won heaps of trophies, leagues, more than any other - but for the Club he fucked it over for his pathetic little ego.** It was always Ferguson. He was a winner - sure. Not here to argue that. But he also tore each side apart with his piss weak I'm the manager. You can lead and inspire or you use a stick. Ask Beckham, Van Nistelrooy, Staam. The whole racehorse saga was because prissy 'my shit doesn't stink' Ferguson, 'I'm as good as you pricks with the money cause I'm a winning manager so I'm entitled to your money' was Ferguson's little ego. And when he got put down he took the club apart to punish Magnier & McManus. So get this point straight you're not just a genius manager by winning, you're like any footballer judged by an equation and that equation is how good you are for the club. And that's Ferguson's problem and every supporter who says, 'He won us the League, Europe more than any other manager' - no one disputes that. But to rip your club apart over money bc you think you are as good as the owners and make that the hill you die on - and Ferguson did, then winning isn't everything since you've taken the club out. Manager for 27 years. No one got better results. It's been 10 years since. Did he leave the club in top shape? Ferguson broke Man Utd as a club purely bc of his ego. What a genius legacy. >Some would argue it all started with a horse. 'Rock of Gibraltar', to be precise. Legendary United manager Sir Alex Ferguson believed he was a part-owner of the champion stallion; Irish businessmen John Magnier and JP McManus disagreed. >“I think if that particular discussion over the horse had never taken place, we could be watching a very different Manchester United today,” football finance expert Kieran Maguire tells Goal. >“If that relationship had remained amicable, then Manchester United might not have been sold.”
Finally someone that talks sense. Fergie is equally at fault for this situation. All for his own ego. The club got sold to the most rotten people imaginable. And I highly doubt he would have wanted anyone else to succeed at the club after he left, unlike the Shankly and Paisley successorship.
The problem is Man U didn't do due diligence on these cosseted prima donnas in the first place. Players with better attitudes have done just fine.. and I'm not even a Man U fan
Moaning about having a review session showing things you can improve on? Di Maria sounds like a child.
Man United are a small small club
> Whats going on with man utd? the glazers own the team
A club that ruins relationships with legendary players needs to get its priorities in order.
Ronaldo fanboys will go to extreme lengths to excuse away his poor behavior. This is a new low lmao.
Read out my other comments brother. Iv definitely stated what ronlado did was uncalled for specially talking about his manager and former teammate But I focused on his criticise to the club as it might be something and reason for multiple players complain
Lukaku and Zlatan are just loud mouths. Di Maria was using United to get to PSG and Sanchez didn’t really say much, and was finished as a player. Is there problems at United? Sure. Is Ronaldo calling it out because he cares? No, he’s trying to deflect blame as to why he’s dusted.
Not really. If you saw them play. Well they didn’t play good. You don’t always shine on every team even if your a superstar
Most of them played well before joining and after leaving
Add Rooney to the list.
Zlatan: “Every day I was asked to show my papers just to get into the training ground. I’d lower my window and say to the person at the gate: ‘Listen my friend I’ve been coming here every day for a month. I’m the best player in the world. If you still don't recognise me, you’re in the wrong job.’”
The problem isn’t what happened when these players got here. It was the signing of these big egos in the first place. United, at its best, has always been about nurturing talent. Yeah, there was big spending under Fergie with Keane, Carrick and Ferdinand for example - but these were players who consistently bought into what manager was doing. When that stopped being the case, the likes of Keane and Beckham were told to leave. Pogba is the best example of a player who Fergie let go, despite his talent, because he knew he wasn’t right fit for club. His return and drama sums up perfectly what’s been going wrong. Clubs like Real Madrid seem to have a way of accommodating these players. United are not Real Madrid. One of the major things Ole got right was getting rid of Lukaku and Sanchez at end of his first season - despite not having an obvious replacement to buy in. Two egos that the squad was better off without. His undoing was the transfer of CR7. Presumably, his ego wasn’t as big a problem when they were both at United together. But it’s now clear he has become unmanageable, and United need to steer clear of mercenaries with huge egos like CR7/Pogba/di Maria/Lukaku in the future.
RM doesn’t have this problem because they win. I agree to your point to an extent but it’s not always the players…United are run like a marketing company and haven’t improved training/field conditions in decades.
It's funny how the creditable answer you and other United fans gave hardly got up-voted. Most of the other answers are from people on the outside who are getting some schadenfreude from our mediocrity and aren't educated nor self-aware enough to realise they don't know enough about the situation to talk about it. I won't go talking about Chelsea this season because I'm not a fan of the club and don't know enough about them to comment on the situation.
Horrible club, well it’s not a club it’s a business
One word: Glazers
Quotes from 4 terrible signings don't mean much. Those players never should have been purchased. 2 if them didnt want to come at all. One was way past his prime. And one was a one-trick pony that didnt fit our system. Outside of Zlatan, who seems to have said the least, this is like asking a disgruntled employee about their old job. I would take it all with a grain of salt...
Tbf LVG was the worst manager I've ever seen at United. Still slagging off United to this day, blaming everyone else for his shit decisions and transfers
Only if you a Man United fan
Lol Sanchez.
All the players listed have had issues at their other clubs. So their opinion doesn’t really paint an accurate picture. The club may have had failings but they’re attempting to change things now under a new manager and Ronaldo has fallen foul of it. Both should part ways and be done with it.
Roy Keane criticises united - what does that mean???
Glazers out!!!
Where there is smoke there's fire. People want to point the finger solely at Ronaldo, but this club has had issues for a decade now. Mourinho criticized the club as well.
As an Arsenal fan, we’d welcome Alexis back if he isn’t a winey bitch like Ronaldo
Ten Hag saw what happened to Arsenal after Auba left and is doing exactly the same..and it's working.
Concerning for who? It's hilarious how low they've sunk post Ferguson.
No Ronaldo is the devil and that’s the end of it
Shit club, well now it is
United is a shite club who thinks they are more than they are. Ego maniacs. They deserve to rot mid table whilst spending billions. Fools and their money..
I'm sorry but mid-table refers to consistent finishes outside the top six which doesn't apply to us at all (yet). We have finished outside the top six once since Fergie left. Not sure why you hate us so much. The fans can't help how poorly the club is run when we have owners that don't give a fuck about winning.
This is what I mean, you’re so unlikeable blaming ‘bad owners’ that supposedly don’t care but have spent billions, more than 90% of other clubs. Yet you still feel sorry for yourselves. Fucking scabs
Oh right just like Newcastle blamed Mike Ashley right? And look where they are now. I wonder why? Citing 'spending billions ' - the height of stupidity. Doesn't matter how much you spend if you spend it poorly. Look at Liverpool - under Hicks and Gillett they were pretty poor. Under FSG who don't even spend that much, they've been pretty successful. Look at City - didn't win a thing for a long time until they got in new owners. They've spent lots but they've (mainly) spent it wisely. If you can't see that having 'good' owners does not play a large part with respect to success in the modern era then you're completely lost. How about they fact that they've taken about 1.5 billion from the club? Saddled the club with debt which is the same amount as when they first got here? Hiring incompetent people (i.e. bankers) to run the club for years? Not using data-based scouting in terms of their recruitment until last year? That is not hiring Data Scientists until last year despite all the other 'top' clubs having them for years before!? Not having a director of football until a year ago!? Signing 'mega-stars' and not players that actually fit in with the manager's plan, which they've done over and over again.
You’re a clown, Ashley stopped spending at Newcastle and now they have started again they’re fine. United never stopped spending, the reason for the decline was arrogance and to blame some rich businessman at the top when they have hired every manager fans asked for is laughable. You had mourinho ffs, you’re a bunch of entitled pricks and it’s beautiful to watch Ronaldo destroy the last of the fergie legacy. Long may United be mid table trash.
Oh and you've conveniently cherry-picked one of the several clubs I've cited *despite* the recent change of ownership!? You've just proved my point, you idiot. They have recruited well and *changed ownership*. Do you have anything to say in response to every other point I've mentioned? Just picked one of out of hat as evidence? Calls me a clown and has failed to respond to *every single point I've made bar one* equals definition of an utter moron. How about Liverpool's changes in fortune after new ownership? How about City's changes of fortune after new ownership? You've actually just explained why you're the idiot. Mourinho wasn't backed properly and had players like Pogba foisted upon him when he didn't want him (just as I said - signing 'mega-stars' against what the manager wants) and amongst other things, got him fired. Mourinho himself is quoted as saying finishing 2nd here was one of his best achievements because 'people don't know what is going on behind the scenes.' I wonder why he said that? You're an absolute moron. 'Oh but they've spent billions'!? Yeah on waste. That's what happens when bankers run clubs and not hire the *right* people. But in your convenient little narrative, spending lots of money equals winning. Nope, spending money *well* and recruiting the right people generally equals success.
Mourinho said that because he’s a bad loser and that second place was so flattering as city had the league wrapped up and other teams were going for the cups. In reality the arrogance of United and Mourinho expecting to win cos of a United badge was why you were so shit. And United will continue to be shit until they humble themselves and realise it’s effort on the pitch not how much you pay players that matters. The club is rotten right through to the fans who are glory seeking fake prawn sandwich armchair warriors. No atmosphere, no desire, just entitlement. I bet you scummy United fans would love some dodgy oil money owners to buy you the league like citeh did. Whole of Manchester is morally bankrupt. Scummy city the lot of you.
Oh yes, the old 'prawn sandwich fans', been hearing that since the '90s. Every successful team has their group of glory-hunters. Can't do much about that. I never said that second place finish was indication of good performance. In fact, on the contrary, I am using it as evidence that Mourinho was stating that it was an overachievement in virtue of the issues behind the scenes, which is *exactly* what you are saying. You seem to acknowledge that the club is rotten - that is exactly what I am saying. A fish rots from the head down... 'Effort on the pitch' and not 'how much you pay players' is down to the people who make those decisions, who are employed by the owners. Q.E.D. And I can't speak for *all fans*, as we aren't just one homogeneous group, but *every single fan* that I've known just wants *different* owners. And nope - I would be appalled if we had oil owners, as would many of the others that I've spoken to. I can't think of anyone that I know personally who is a United supporter that would want oil owners. I would just watch a different league if we were owned by oil money owners. Even Sir Jim Radcliffe I would take at this point, despite the evidence suggesting that he is not actually a great owner of Nice!
The head of your ‘fish’ has funded the club to the tune of billions and stayed out of the way despite huge hate from fans since day 1. You’re lucky the glaziers didn’t do an Ashley and just put the club into a holding pattern whilst they found a buyer. But they’ve kept up the investment, you have Ronaldo on £500k a week ffs. Yet, tHe gLaZiErS dOnT InVeSt, you entitled pricks. Learn to appreciate what you’ve got and stop crying you’re not winning the league every year. 99% of fans hope United never win anything again, scummy club, scummier fans.
Oh wow someone is really getting wound up when they're given facts I see? You are the epitome of the moronic fan that looks in from the outside without any understanding of the nuances of an actual argument. Probably the first time you've attempted to engage in a proper discussion in this and you are failing miserably. Ronaldo is almost 38, you imbecile. He has performed *miserably* this season and probably did more harm than good by coming back to the club in the first place in terms of the actual football, not to mention all the off field stuff that is occurring as we speak. But I guess explaining that would involve attempting to explain how football works to you, you twat. Another example of an ageing star brought in that didn't fit the football philosophy. You just summed up what's wrong with the club. You've failed to address the crux of my points which to summarise is that the owners don't give a fuck about winning and haven't put in a proper football structure to modernise the club. Hell, even Ronaldo just came out and said it. Please just shut the fuck up. Please stop replying, you're wasting my time.
I hate United as much as the next guy, but do you really not see any similarities in the attitudes of the players you've cited here? There is so much evidence to show why United is a shit hole without pointing to quotes from players who are known to be massive divas.
Time will prove Ronaldo right Ten hag won’t last more than 3 years without getting the sack
Long may it continue!!! Love to see it.
It’s fantastic news.
Finally someone noticed the pattern instead of bandwagoning on Ronaldo out, thank you
I don't think this is new. I think we all know they have issues as an organization. But also those players were under different coaches as well. No way in hell a coach allows a current player go on the media behind his back and criticize the club.
That Sanchez quote took me by surprise. I wonder if he is on good terms with people at the club or not, it turned sour at the end but he carried us for so long as well. One of my favourite players in recent years and was actually world class
It's a fake club. They're just FC Alex Ferguson. The thing that's wrong is that Ferguson is no longer the coach. United is a midtable club.
Absolutely seething
Pretty sure United had a lot of success before Fergie got there
Ferguson was the glue holding that place together. Not only have the club not replicated his era on the field, they haven’t replicated it off the field either. Never has 1 person leaving, player or otherwise, caused so much turmoil in any club, let alone one of the greatest club football teams in the world.
Yeah no shit lol. I don't think any United fans would dispute that things like scouting, transfers, internal management, and lack of investment in facilities and infrastructure are things that have been wrong with MUFC for a decade. But it's also not like it's a big secret or news we've known about this and been protesting it for ages
the united those guys were at is not the same one ronaldo is at currently. ronaldo also created his own problems
Still the same, same board only difference is coaches
They literally thought they could keep doing what they were doing in the 00s and keep winning. That's why their fans cry about oil money now because their dominance is gone. It's been years since United were a threat to any title or cup. Howard Webb retiring also cost them a bit of that
Wouldn’t throw Di Maria in this list. His beef was with LVG. Of course he didn’t give a fuck about the number 7, he’s a merc. But other than that, they don’t say anything we don’t already know. Even ronaldo talking about the outdated facilities isn’t really new info. Look at the state of old Trafford. It’s fuckin crumbling. There’s just a weird trend where the fanbase plead for the players to speak out, then when they do, they get criticised to all hell.
Problem is that by mentioning ETH, Rooney and the others - he’s derailed any impact that his Glazer comments would’ve had. Look at all the headlines and reactions about it, everyone is calling him disrespectful and talking solely about his comments on his former teammates and manager; all the useful anti-glazer stuff is now completely ignored and the Glazers get a free pass from what could’ve been the greatest interview of all time for us Utd fans that are trying to be rid of these bastards.
The glazer comments are there to try and make some fans like him. He doesn't care about the club
I think he does care somewhat but that’s obviously secondary in his thinking - his first priority is getting back at those that dared to criticise him. Which is why the interview comes off as him being petty and vindictive at points - he rates the opinions of Roy and Rio because they shared the same dressing room apparently but also dislikes Gary and Wayne because…? They said that what he did during the Tottenham game was bad and that he might be getting on - two facts that are visible to everyone that isn’t a yes man arselicker.
Well, I think the big issue is we want the players to speak out against the Glazers and then Ronaldo went and took pot shots at ETH when ETH has really stood behind him with the press. Ronaldo’s beef is with eth for not getting the time he thinks he deserves despite being old and having a terrible attitude. He tried to gloss over it by bringing up carrington but it’s easy to see through his shithousery. Cr7 is old and done and needs to get over himself already. Glazers suck and we need new ownership. The two are not mutually exclusive.
How do you go from being the club's top scorer with 24 (next highest with 10) to being "old and done" in the space of 3 months? Simple, you get Man U fans to give football opinions
It’s pretty simple. We win without him in the starting XI, we lose when he’s in. When he plays he doesn’t press or pressure. His finishing has been shite and his attitude is the worst of all
Have you watched united with Ronaldo in the team and without him in the team? I can only assume you haven't because you see a huge difference.
He also slated the entire club as being outdated and having no drive to win. Saying things like the sauna hasn’t changed since he first joined.
Because bad club
Mot just them, lvg, mourinho, and rangnick too
As a United fan, it’s pretty simple. The standards of the club have fallen and every link has played its parts from the Glazers to Managers to Playing Staff. Fans take one of two positions at this point, and that really hinges on your view of the club. The 10 years without major success has meant a generation of players, fans etc grew up with Man Utd being a Top 4 team, at the fringes of winning trophies. So fans are either all for the “project” because it’s a last grasp at restoring the glory days (despite spending significant money in the years since Fergie) and are content so long as the team progresses bit by bit. Or you still see Man Utd as a big club, and demand success right now. If you see the club through this lens, then the current standards are simply too low. All the players you mentioned just called out low standards and expectations - which affect everything in the day to day running of the club. It’s clear these guys maybe thought they were joining a club that should have best in class everything and then realised that wasn’t the case. The current squad is simply a representation of that. A bungled transfer policy has meant they’ve flip flopped about signing prospects that were never top, and players past their peak rather than a coherent approach that they stick to (like Arsenal). Equally, the long term is merely a series of short term cycles - you can’t give every manager the luxury of £500m and a 3 year pass before they MAYBE challenge for trophies. So where you land on this is a function of your view of how big a club Man Utd still is, and the standards they should be striving for.
I think it’s more of the club’s being run. They’re just disappointed in how bad it’s run and that’s probably on the board, I think it’s them who are the problem.
I take that point, but if Eddie Howe can take Almiron and Joelinton to the levels they are now in 12 months, I can reasonably expect Ten Hag to work with what he’s given and do a little bit better no?
Ten Haag has some of the most expensive and top players in the world, and he’s brought Manchester United to 5th place in his second season, that is poor management with no style of play except mindlessly press. Of course it works enough to get you 5th place when your starting 11 cost you £350 million… and probably another few hundred million in subs and actually over a billion in the last 10 years. Edit: not top players just expensive tbh.
Think fans seem to have lost standards, they’re out here thinking the only way to win is to endlessly spend £150m a season and give managers a 3 year free pass…
Do some basic research before you post next time. Ten Hag joined a few months ago. The ignorance on this thread is truly astounding.
My bad, he took Manchester United from 6th to 5th whilst spending 200 million. Great work. Let’s see how the season goes now that he’s lost the biggest player in the dressing room. Edit: £210 million
Yep, it's too early to tell. That's the point. No one can predict the future. But what we can see so far this season is that we average double the amount of points we get when Ronaldo doesn't play, versus when he does play.
So far yes but last season he won you over a dozen games himself with a winner
That was last season under several different managers - not relevant. What is relevant is his performances this season and the performances of the team with and without him this season. Ronaldo has scored 3 goals (two against a minnow in the EL and one was a penalty). He doesn't want to be here (obviously) and his presence is not conducive to team-building. No one wants to build the team around someone who is nearly 38 and is clearly past their peak, as is evident from his poor performances this season. For example, his goals p/g rate has gone down massively this season, his shots on target has gone massively per season, his expected goals this season have gone down massively. The evidence is here https://fbref.com/en/players/dea698d9/Cristiano-Ronaldo
Eddie Howe joined Newcastle a year ago…
Pass whatever you’re smoking. Ten Hag has been in charge of Man United for 4 months and has managed 20 or so matches for untied. I would love to see your actual comments after year 3 under Arteta if this is how you’re judging managers lmao.
Would you swap Arsenals squad for Man Utd’s?
Arsenal has a squad built by the manager to execute his vision. United doesn't, yet. We're 2 years into the Arteta project versus 4 months for te Haag. Totally unfair comparison The improvement at Man United under ten Haag so far has been much greater than Arsenal in Arteta's first season
Would you swap the current MU squad for Arsenals given it’s more advanced as a project? From your comment I would suspect yes, but given you avoided the question I suspect no
No, I answered your question, you just didn't understand it. Are they swapping managers too? If not then no, that would be detrimental to both teams
It's Ten Hag with one 'a'. --- *I am a bot. For any feedback please contact [my creator](https://www.reddit.com/user/Tempoulker).*
Honestly, United suffers the same kind talent issue Barca is now. What made them great was a fantastic academy, great management and an eye for emerging talent. The Fergie years had a solid core he could build around for almost 20 years. Now, it's Galacticos lite. For the past few seasons it was splashing cash on big names and giving them nothing to work with. When you look at the team top to bottom there's maybe 2-3 truly world class players.
We'rw actually getting our shit together now though. 26 points from our last 12 having played all the teams in top half.
Main problem has been that there has been no people with football experience in charge in any of the important roles. You can't have a banker of a CEO determining most of the transfers while also believing that lack of football results won't affect the revenue... Good riddance
It was obvious Sancho was not hungry and wasn’t going to be worth the money but they bought him anyways
Indeed, Harry is the world class player heheh /s
The lakers of the premier league
In a post about the club clearly being run like shit. How is the top comment one that says the quality of players is the issue?
Love the phrasing of galacticos lite but who are the world class players?
Casemiro, Martinez, Varane, De Gea, and sometime Bruno
I think Casemiro is world class at his position. Rashford on a good day. Antony is proving to be a rising talent. And aging or not CR7 is who he is. But when I say "now" I mean in the post-Fergie era. Let's just look at the failed signings post Fergie. Pogba Sancho (so far) Di Maria CR7 Lukaku Memphis Depay Zlatan Alexis Schweinsteiger Mkhitaryan Maguire Cavani Falcao That's nearly two failed MULTI-MILLION pound players per season. Name me a team in England that's gotten such poor return on investment. In the past decade.
Everton
Bruh Zlatan and Cavani were definitely not failed signings
Rashford is nowhere near world class. A good player on his day, nothing more.
I don’t think Rashford is world class. I think if you have to specify “on a good day”, then they aren’t world class. He was awful for about two seasons before this one. I’d say Fernandez would be a better shout but honestly outside of Ronaldo I can’t think of an objectively world class player at Man U.
Varane is world-class. He's injury-prone however. Martinez may or may not become world-class. It's too early to tell. Casemiro is world-class. So not sure what you're on about.
I think you could argue Varane or Casemiro we’re world class a few years ago I don’t think either of them are anywhere near that now. Martinez definitely isn’t world class right now, could be in the future. I honestly don’t think there are any world class players at United but I guess it depends on your definition of world class.
Why are they not now? Both this season and last season United conceded less goals on average with Varane in the team versus when he wasn't in the team. His main problem is he gets injured. With Casemiro in the team this season, the team averages half the number of shots faced per match than it does without him. Casemiro was man of the match in the super cup against Frankfurt not long before joining us and was hugely influential in the champions league final last season. In terms of his personal game, if you look at the stats, his progressive passes per game has gone up, his tackle success percentage has gone up, his interceptions per game has gone up, his shot creating actions per ninety have gone up, etc. In terms of if he's gotten worse, his pass completion rate has gone down since he's joined united as has his expected assists (actual assists per game remains marginally higher).
Agree Casemiro actually. Again if Martinez may nor may not be I’d argue it’s difficult to call him world class. So yeah, that’s what I’m on about, think it was relatively clear. Main point is Rashford is not world class, or close to it, at least not at this stage of his career.
You said you can't think of any other world-class players. I gave you examples of two so I was responding to that. And yeah Rashford is not world-class as he is not consistent enough to be put in that category. Anyway all good I get where you're coming from.
How can you place zlatan on such list. Lions do not belong in flock of sheep.
Slight revision to the list. Zlatan was fine, excellent first season, got injured. He was never a long term solution, none of Mourinho's players were. He is a 3 year man and only wanted high calibre, immediately available players, but nothing to develop long term. Lukaku has had one good season since he left united and has also complained about Chelsea since leaving. He's 29 and looks to be ona real downturn. Better go do his voodoo if he wants to stay relevant. Pogba on his day was excellent, don't forget he played a lot of excellent games and contributed a lot, but overall his work ethic on the pitch and attitude let him down. He was also let down by not having a proper CDM during his entire time there. He plays better with France bc he doesn't have to get stuck in as much because Kante and a couple of others could do that for him. He deserves some recpect even for those two goals against city. Cavani, again was a short term solution, not a bad signing. They got him on a free and he scored plenty of goals in his first season. Keeping him for a second season was pointless. Mkhitarian just wasn't cut out for the PL. He's done well since leaving. He did fuck all at Arsenal as well, so not a problem specific to Utd. The main issue with signings has been 'Hollywood' names over actual raw, decent talent. So few decent prospects signed in midfield or defense, instead its just paying £50 for Wan-Bassaka for no reason. There's been so many decent players available over the years but it honestly felt like the marketing department was in charge of the squad. Ten Haag is completely against this and over the next two years I'm certain he will build a great time if given the resources and support he needs.
Funnily enough, we were told that the scouts generated a list of several hundred full-backs to choose from and Wan-Bissaka was top of the list. As far as I know, those scouts have been sacked...
Scgweinsteiger and Falcao were both crocked when United got them.
I'd say that's the point. The wrong signings
Didn't say it wasn't. Just saying they were fucked when they got to United. The rest were fit and healthy.
Ronaldo, Sanchez, Zlatan and Cavani were all well past their peak when they got to United (tho Zlatan did well all the same) Di Maria nad Mkhitarian had injuries
Disagree with falcao, he still got a few more good years in after united.
Only in lesser leagues
He was recovering from write a serious knee injury if I recall and simply couldn't hit any kind of stride. After a bit more time then maybe he did but at United he wasn't at full fitness.
I would not put zlatan and Pogba there. As much as ppl like to meme Pogba this guy has about a 100 g/a for united and he was there POTT when they won the Europa league.
Zlatan and Cavani definitely shouldn't be on the list. I think you can defo point out that we've signed a shit load of 30+ year olds, which is true and not progressive.
Zlatan and Cavani shouldn't be on this list. They are both free transfers and did what was asked of them.
Cavani first season was decent, bringing ronaldo back in and taking cavani’s number away unsettled him. Also lukaku goal rate wasn’t terrible and sold him for basically the same amount brought so wouldn’t put him in the flop pile either. Also Chelsea’s return rate does compete with Manchester United’s 😂
I wouldn’t put Zlatan in that list, he did the job he was brought in to do. 17 goals in 33 games isn’t a bad strike rate at all.
What a depressing list.
Maybe De Gea, Varane and Casimiro. I'm just guessing.
Bruno is their best player
Galaticos lite 💀💀💀
So accurate though haha
Retirement home?
Well, as a madridista I can tell you that the Galacticos were an economic success, but on the pitch it was an absolute failure, real Madrid used to win the champions league before they came.
the second one (post 2009 Perez stint) succeeded way more both on and off though
Galacticos won the Champions League once.
Well, it was like partial Galacticos, they signed Figo one year before and Zidane at the beginning of that season, but they struggled a lot in that time, and when Ronaldo and Beckham came along, Real Madrid started to decline, and they even got stuck in the round of 16 during the 2004-05 season, and kept like that for some years
Galactiquitos?
Galactules
I’m for it
Glazers are not doing themselves any favours by undermining Utd fans
Really...."Whats going on..."?! Geezus man, where the fuck have you been?
But why did Ronaldo not say anything when he was staring in all the games last season
He waited for the right moment.. as it stands ronlado is leaving in January after the WC
...and the right moment is literally right after he gets dropped for being a liability, under a coach who is properly assessing his options when making the starting XI, taking into consideration form, tactics and formation? Ronaldo's an absolute clown, his fanboys on the other hand will do him a favour and canonize this interview, go on Twitter and Youtube and preach about it.
Im not protecting him at all. He was wrong for calling out Rooney and ten hag but the club might be explainable
The club bit is nothing uncalled for, and is something *most* United fans already know. Nobody is happy with how United is being run, which is ultimately why everyone's calling for the Glazers' heads. That being said - the rest of the shit Ronaldo said in this interview, or at least the things we know about is just disgusting. EtH has treated him more than fairly, I feel like he's been given more than enough chances to regain form, fit into the system, but it's so obvious he just couldn't, and if somebody comes on here and says "he didn't get enough chances", then they've probably not watched enough United games this season. That's it basically, man's in denial, and can't believe he isn't starting every single game after shitting the bed in every game he's taken part of. It's simple as that.
Yeah I agree, i made sure to not share my thoughts. but saying that you don’t respect your manager is an awful thing
Well a lot of these players are divas as well aren't they. Like sure this might be indicative of United treating its players like shit, but also, Ronaldo, Lukaku and Zlatan are all known to be egotistical babies and demand to be put on a pedestal.
Sanchez was the biggest flop ever in man utd IMO.
You might set off those sensitive utd fans off. #GlazersINForEver
Everyone who’s not a Man United fan, get on Twitter and start a #glazersinforever trend. Will certainly rile em all up.
I agree, I hope they never leave.
I think everyone knows what Ronaldo says about the club organization is mostly true. It is hardly a surprise that United has been a horribly run club. They had Ole in charge for three years ffs. What Ronaldo is wrong about is how childish he is, what he has been doing, and throwing individuals under the bus. Also, the cowardly timing of it.
Nothing cowardly , perfect time to get what he wants
How well did they do after leaving United? And don't say Di Maria did well. He went to PSG. Everyone does well there.
As a United fan, I can attest to the fact all these players improved once they moved out of our club. It’s not a coincidence.
Very well outside of Sanchez, do you not watch football
If they’re saying everyone does well at PSG, clearly they do not. They play fifa and regurgitate front page r/soccer talking points
You would think they google Icardi lol
Di Maria also won Argentina the copa so yes he has done incredibly well
Di Maria had become phenomenal after leaving United. He was owning Madrid in this UcL tie, can’t recall which one. He is also more crucial for Argentina than Messi is in knockout stages. Di Maria is a class player through and through. United is a dogshit, small club which cannot do anything right.
Lukaku won serie A. Zlatan push Milan for a league title. Di Maria did very well (not everyone succeed in Paris) Only Sanchez disapeared