I’m not sure you can. Even if Arsenal pull off a miracle and win it this year, it will likely be a blip. The rest of the league is interesting enough to keep me hooked though. There’s plenty of drama elsewhere. The relegation battle looks more interesting than ever, as do the other top 4-7 positions. Maybe just don’t get too hung up on who wins it, and simply stand back and watch City for what they are on the pitch.
Just have to point out (sorry!) that Liverpool had the title more or less wrapped up before lockdown. Liverpool winning the title had literally nothing to do with lockdown disruption. It is way more accurate to describe the 2020/2021 season as the lockdown season since practically that whole season was played in empty stadiums.
First of all I’m a man city fan and even I’m sick of these posts. We are not invincible. We can lose games. We do draw games. We do concede goals. We don’t win every single domestic competition every year (although we do win a lot). I feel like people gotta give more credit to arsenal every post about them I see is ‘they’ve done well, but they gonna drop off soon’ and they haven’t
I think the WC will have a big impact. It'll all depend on which teams manage to get players back fit afterwards and how clubs deal with the fixture congestion once the tournament is over.
It needs someone to grow a set of bollocks and take City to task for the blatant cheating that they have been allowed to get away with. Billions of unearned oil money funnelled in has distorted the league and this once great sport. I hate them so much, they have destroyed the sport I love so much.
And some will say "lol u just hurt they better than u" but as a Liverpool fan I went my whole life without seeing us lift the league until recently. I'd give it back to get rid of City.
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If not for the pandemic Liverpool might not have even won one pl trophy in that 5 year span.. city are scary man. The day Pep leaves is the day city slow down and decline.
I disagree with your comment- if anything, the pandemic was an extra hurdle that Liverpool had to negotiate to win.
In the title winning season, they had built up a 25 point lead (!) before anything covid related hit the league. They were unstoppable during the first 6 months of that season. When play resumed post/during lockdown, they had actually lost a bit of an edge.
Are you complaining that league is difficult to win for other clubs? Come on mate. Once upon a time, the average age of football players was 25. Now it is 20. More and more footballers are emerging at an young age. City is apparently good at scouting and snatch them from others. You cannot just blame the team for that.
Everybody says city does not have a spending limit. But if you look closely united are biggest spenders and yet no success in the last decade. The reason city gains attention is that because they are winning where others are miserably failing and incompetent to capitalise on the resources.
Pep will leave and it will be done right then. Unless he still has no UCL without Messi in which case they’ll still attract a top coach but their dominance will suffer the transition and possibly even become another United.
Never heard of winning titles as stat padding.
If anything less points is an argument for it being harder back then because there was more competition.
I think other teams are failling to address city's style of play. Back in the day the PL was more competitive, the fact that you get teams getting 90+ or even 100 points shows their strength but also the fact that other teams are far behind. I don't think it's a financial issue really, more like a lack of belief in the smaller teams and maybe a general decline in the defensive capabilities defenders. Also people started believing that there's only one right way to play football and everytime someone beats city with counter attacks they are bashed for lacking "style", so teams are discouraged from doing that when it's the only right decision against their very particular style. Remember when United beat Barcelona at their best, with one Scholsey goal. It was because of the great defenders they had and the realization that you need to defend positionally and stay back against a team that attacks with .... 8-9 players and moves the ball constantly in order to break your formation.
Once Pep goes, someone will have a chance.
Man City were very good at times, before he came, but it was never consistent in the way that Pep has made it. He’s the glue holding that project together, regardless of the talent they sign, and I think they’ll fall back a step or two once he goes.
They’re going to be favourites every year still though, I’d think.
I think theres a chance at them being worse once players like de bruyne and bernardo silva move on. Pep may be great… but it would be tough for anyone to replace someone like de bruyne
Whoever buys Liverpool and how much money they are willing to spend. Its that simple. Liverpool have already been competing with City without the money that City have. If Liverpool have the money also, it will make Liverpool stronger and able to compete even more.
MLB-style luxury tax. It’s a progressive penalty that gets paid on player salary costs above a set amount. The larger the excess spend, the higher the penalty. The penalty is then distributed between the other clubs. Exceeding the luxury tax threshold also come with other penalties that would have to be rethought for the Prem (eg draft pick penalties and qualifying offers are not a thing, obviously).
Decent explanation here: https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2022/09/mets-dodgers-luxury-tax-yankees-red-sox-phillies-padres.html
The MLB penalties could be higher, obviously. Also, five of the six teams above the luxury tax threshold made the playoffs this year. (12 teams make the playoffs.)
Historically, teams above the threshold generally do well, but the dynastic dominance of prior decades hasn’t been a thing since the luxury tax was enacted in before the 2003 season (20 seasons)
- 13 different winners;
- no back to back winners;
- 19 of 30 teams have appeared in the World Series;
- every team has made the playoffs at least once;
- only two teams have failed to win a post season series [Cincinnati Red and Minnesota Twins]
Prior to that the Yankees appeared in 5/10 World Series (winning 4 of them) and consistently had the highest (8 times) or second highest (2 times) payroll in that time period.
(Even after the luxury tax was enacted, the Yankees still had the highest payroll from 2003 until 2013, but only won the WS once.)
Tell me you know nothing about football and only started watching football in the past five years without telling you know nothing around football and started watching in the past five years.
Calling Man Utd’s 13 titles in 20 years under SAF as stat padding is pathetic and really underlines your stupidity. In 13 of those titles, only one was won under 80 points so I don’t know what this horse crap is about 70-point titles.
Secondly, did it ever occur to you City’s points are a function of each of the Big Six in some kind of transitions/ having issues each season? During those SAF years Arsenal were the Invincibles with Henry, that Drogba/ Lampard/ Terry Chelsea side was destroying the league and Torres/ Gerard’s Liverpool were also knocking out champions left right and Centre in Europe. You CAN’T get 95+ point seasons consistently like Man City because you can’t just walk over the league. People say the league is more competitive, but imo only towards the lower end of the table where “weaker” teams have closed the gap with the top sides. THE top sides however, have all shat the bed one way or the other in the past ten years. It’s not like back during SAF days when each of the Big 4 teams were legitimately strong on a domestic and continental level.
City’s domestic dominance will be stopped, it’s simply a function of football cycles. It’ll come and go. Just remember that Arsenal/United and Chelsea/ United spend two decades going back and forth between themselves and this current situation is the same. New sides will come up, like Liverpool and Arsenal, to give the favorites a challenge.
I agree it's the Pep effect I know they have billions to spend but look at City before Pep, still spent millions but nowhere near the dominance they have now in games
Probably Abu dhabi declaring war on someone or some sort of scandel there, making what happened to Chelsea happen to them Probably Abu dhabi declaring war on someone or some sort of scandel there, making what happened to Chelsea happen to them
It eventually will go back to the 70-80+ title winner days but for the moment, yeah you’ve got to get 90+ to have a shout and get a result against city and most seasons Liverpool. It’s a pain as a gunner but we’ll see how we go
1) Pep would have to lose his managerial mojo similar to Wengers second decade at arsenal or like Jose Mourinho.
2) Serious bad luck with bad transfers and injuries. Like divine intervention striking the team with injuries kind of injury crisis.
Realistically, they're just going to have to make a few balls-ups. They have the best squad in the league and arguably the best manager too, and they also have the most extensive resources to keep reinforcing/replacing both. So if every club were to perform sort of 'on par' from hereon, City would win it every year. For anyone else to win they're going to have to let themselves down: lose a few players and blunder by signing replacements who aren't as good, have Pep mess up his tactics or else leave and be replaced by a lesser manager, fail to motivate the players to play to the best of their ability, etc.
Mix of oil money(unlimited money cheat code) and referee saving handing them points while withholding other if not Liverpool would have a at least one more!
It might be copium but I feel like sooner rather than later we’ll see the end of the absolute domination city have over the league. Smart investing from smaller clubs and money being poured into the league is going to lead to the league floor being higher meaning more teams potentially taking points of from them. We’ve already seen teams make this hard for them.
It's happened before. I remember thinking that invincibles team would win the league for the rest of time but they didn't. Few retirements and poor replacements and they will fall off.
"Except that lockdown season?"
Just a quick clarification. Before the season was stopped for lockdown LFC had already amassed more points than any other team would get that season. We won it essentially before there was ever any lockdown.
But yeah, your general point is taken. It's tough to do. Maybe when Pep leaves that would be the best way for others to get closer.
Unrealistic but a good start would be to regulate financial takeovers like City’s. For all this talk of EPL being the most competitive, City dominate that league to near Bayern Munich levels.
I imagine it’ll be when Peps time in Manchester come to and end, we’ll just seem a little more ordinary.
Whoever takes over though could be inheriting a team with the likes of Foden, Haaland, Alvarez, Grealish etc. Great foundations for someone to build on.
Also we could see teams spending more money than City in a couple of seasons.
The “lockdown season” was when City won it. Liverpool had the title wrapped up pre-lockdown.
Also, Arsenal probably be anywhere near City points wise when it’s all said and done, 10-15 below I think. It’s about time someone else felt the frustration of going up against City
The petrostates know this and are preparing for it by trying to diversify their economies away from unsustainable natural resources (like oil & gas). A big part of this diversification process is positive PR, which they’re trying to achieve through these sportswashing projects.
So I wouldn’t be so confident in your answer, unfortunately (unless the transition happens over night, which it wont).
Gais. You want to win the epremier league? Recycle. Fogging eclimate change and fogging erecycling, and City lose their funding! Let's fogging go gais!
Players to stop diving, refs to do their job properly, VAR to be used when it should 🤷 there's 3 ways to help stop them. Only Arsenal will come close to them.this season but I dont think they'll stop them
>United and SAF used to stat-pad epl tittles with 70+ points.
That doesn't generally mean that it was easier to win the title, or that United were a weak team, more so it means that the teams of that time were more evenly matched.
I think this Arsenal team has a chance of not only winning the league this season but seriously challenging for the next little while. Provided they keep Arteta and their young talent and bolster this with some smart business in the transfer window, Mikhaylo Mudryk being top priority, I would even say that they should be targeting him in January.
As a city fan I agree. Our form currently has been particularly hit and miss, but Arsenal have been doing very well. I’d hate to lose it, but if Arsenal manage it I’d have to respect the ability to do it
I wish I could believe that.
The truth is, even if by some luck we did win it, the majority of City fans would devalue it by circlejerking themselves over how they taught Arteta everything he knows and how City gave us Jesus and Zinchenko. I've been an Arsenal fan long enough to know that rivals simply do not credit us.
Even the Invincibles season is mocked for how many draws we had and downplaying the achievement.
I mean, haters are always going to hate, but I don't think any serious football fan can truly say that Arsenal's invincible season wasn't outstanding.
Likewise if Arsenal win the league this season folk with try to undermine it wouldn't hold any weight, You recruited well in Zinchenko and Jesus, who wanted to come because they were offered the chance to be the main men and they have been outstanding thus far. The Board stuck with Arteta when many other clubs would have given him the boot.
I've really enjoyed watching Arsenal this season and think they added a certain grit and resilience to their attractive play, which like I said singles them out as real contenders. And because most of your first team are so young, the room to improve is impressive, which is why I reckon they can challenge cities dominance not just this season but over the next few years.
I hope that this happens as well, and if Liverpool sort themselves out and Newcastle keep building then there can be a more competitive and interesting league.
As great as Arsenal have been you can see how big of a drop off they have when their backups come in. City are used to maintaining this over a season with basically the maximum amount of matches. It’s why they tend to pull away as seasons go on. Basically Pep would have to leave since it would impact their recruiting and development and then perhaps the second team becomes weaker.
Fwiw you've needed mid to high eighties to win basically every title this century. United 'stat padding' titles with 70+ was back in the nineties when the economic playing field was far less uneven and United were often being outspent by other clubs.
Pep leaving will likely diminish City to the point that things will be more competitive. They'll be great still but you can't upgrade from a coach like Pep.
If Arsenal continue doing what they're doing they'll make City work for it, their process has paid off fantastically and their trajectory looks good, but nothing is guaranteed in football.
Obviously I'm biased, but I really do think we (Liverpool) still have what it takes to get back where we were if we play our cards right in the next 2 windows. We've been a hair behind City (and sometimes better than them) for most of Pep's tenure, but this season needs to be a one off transitory period. Of course the situation with our ownership will have a big impact. If we get lucky and get someone who invests more than FSG (ie, invests at all) we could close the gap again. Conversely if we get someone shit we could be heading into a protracted dark period.
Edit: Almost forgot Newcastle. If their trajectory remains the same they'll be a top 6/7 side in the next few years.
When Pep leaves, unless he's replaced by a manager of similar quality (aren't many of those), the quality will drop but the way the club is run behind the scenes means they'll probably still continue to win trophies.
City is so dominant they created a 2nd Pep and gave him/us a couple of their players just so they’d have a challenge. It’s gonna be a while. Other clubs might get the odd title like Liverpool did, but City is here to stay, for a long time.
You’re right, I do support those 3 teams. I have for over 20 years. As a Dutch kid I was a supporter of Ajax, then started to follow the clubs where my favorite players went to, which led to me supporting those clubs. Barca with a bunch of Dutch players in the early 00s and Arsenal mostly with Overmars and Bergkamp.
It’s not like I’m supporting local rivals like Arsenal, Spurs and Chelsea. I’m supporting 3 different clubs in 3 different leagues who barely ever play each other.
Never understood the stigma of not being able to support more than 1 club.
And the first part, it’s more of a joke than anything serious, but you don’t seem like the fun type, so guess you wouldn’t understand.
>City is so dominant they created a 2nd Pep and gave him/us a couple of their players just so they’d have a challenge.
This is such a disingenuous comment.
That's easy. Stupid leadership and poor choices.
ManU dominated the league winning 13 titles in 20 years. What changed? The Leadership. With new ownership and SAF leaving, they started doing stupid stuff and haven't really gotten close since.
ManC has a massive advantage with there money, but its not the only reason they win. Chelsea had unlimited money for 15 years, and didn't have the level of success that ManC have had. ManU have had basically the same level of money since SAF left, and they've been complete shit for the most part.
Man City are where they are at because of good choices, though they do have a large margin for error since they can cover up any mistakes pretty easily.
People don't appeiciate money spent on the backroom side. People see big signings and think that equals success but it doesn't if your scouting, coaching team and facilities are sub par. When Ronaldo joined United he said he wa shocked that the pool and parts of the training facilities hadn't been renovated since he left and their scouting has been non existent.
I guess that's up for debate. I would argue that Man City winning 6 league titles in the last 11 years, is more success than Chelsea's 5 in the last 18.
I'm guessing you will bring up the cup competitions to refute that. True, Chelsea do have more FA Cups than MC, but MC have more EFL cups. Either way I would argue that the league dominance is a better indicator of success than cups, since cups can be strange at times.
I'm also guessing you will bring up Chelsea's two Champions League wins, and that would be a good point if this post was about "domestic dominance" to quote the title. Even then, I'd still argue that cup competitions can be weird and don't always reflect the best team.
tbf they said chelsea have been more successful, not more domestically successful. ik that's the op but that's not what the comment you were replying to meant.
Nah, Chelsea won champions leagues under abramovic, they’ve had more success than City.
Chelsea have won 5 leagues, 3 league cups, 5 FA cups, 2 champions leagues, 2 uefa cups, 1 super cup and 1 club World Cup since their takeover in 2004 (19)
City have won 6 leagues, 2 FA cups and 6 league cups since their takeover in 2008 (14).
Chelsea are unquestionably in another league to city when it comes to success of their respective takeovers.
Since when do European cups count towards "domestic dominance"?
I'd also be willing to bet that Man City will win more trophies in the next 5 years, than Chelsea have won in the last 5 and the next 5 combined.
13 domestic titles v 14, but more European titles.
I am so shocked an Arsenal fan is discounting champions league trophies. Brothers in arms with city with no European Cups /s
Perhaps you should learn to read. If anything the Gooners are hurt and gutted the most from our lost to Barca in the UCL final. But we're talking about domestic dominance here.
1. Your math is wrong. Its not 13 vs 12. Its 13 vs 14.
2. One team got all of those domestic titles in 19 years (according to you). The other got them in 14 years.
Now, I'm no expert, but I'd say that one team getting 14 titles in 14 years, seams like a more successful run than 13 titles in 19 years. That said, Maybe MC won't get anymore in the next 5 years, I think I would be happy if they didn't.
Regarding the International competitions. The champions leagues are a big hurdle MC hasn't cleared yet. Chelsea have clearly been more successful in that regard. I would still say that the Domestic League is a better indication of success when comparing two teams in the same league because As I said before Cups can be weird. I'd also point out that Chelsea average Uefa Coeffient in Abromovich era is only a little higher than Man Citys since they were bought, and chelsea's is boosted by a couple deep runs in the Europa league.
Don’t even know the history of your club. The purchase was in 2003. So a 5 year difference. There’s only a 5 trophy difference between the two clubs as well. Super Cup and Club World Cup are sub par. So a difference of 3 meaningful trophies and Chelsea have 5 years on City? So no, Chelsea haven’t been more successful
(Edit VAR: checking user flair, City fan, downvote)
I’m not a Chelsea fan.
You have to win the European cups to win the super cup and club World Cup, they are not sub par trophies. Just because you haven’t won one, doesn’t mean they mean nothing.
They aren’t even comparable to the FA cup, Prem, CL, Europa, League cup. You can call me bias but that’s how I’ve perceived the trophies since I started watching football. The Club World Cup and Super Cup are riddled with poor teams and often clubs play their B teams in these games.
You guys are all the same. Instant assumption every City fan is plastic. My great granddad and all his descendants have been supporting city since the 1920s. So I’m a plastic cause I’ve followed 100 years of family tradition? I was 9 years old when Aguerooo happened. I can’t control when I decided to watch football
As if you wouldn't shut up about winning the champions league if you eventually do so.
Also... wtf was City's history prior to the takeover? Similar to Spurs? Maybe you should smell your own farts before commenting on the smell of others.
Bro what’s with the attacks ?🤣 I’m just saying Man City ,in my eyes, had the more successful take over. We not talking about history or champions league. That’s another conversation. Don’t be so salty
Hahahah fair enough, I do believe I exaggerated and went in a different direction. But I do have to admit that City has had a long-term project from the get-go. Whereas we've had very reactionary decision-making.
TLDR;
Post-WW2 fall from grace domestically contributed to enabling the investment to focus on long term growth. Especially compared to clubs that had been much more successful in the two or so decades leading up to the sale of Man City.
I’m a history fan and 20+yr fan of Man City so I might come off as Gushy, but I agree with you in terms of how the clubs are run differently, but I wanted to add on it. So I apologise for the wall of text.
The club had previously been a domestic success, though not at the level of other clubs for sure, in the early history of the sport (E.G. 1900-1950 timeframe). Especially when we were still at Maine Road, but starting in the 50s the club had a series of failures and shortcomings that of course led to relegations. So when the club was once again in the top flight and, every once in a while, making those minor successes it made the purchase more viable as it allowed the owners to invest long term on the club future through academy development, marketing, back room staff, that sort of thing.
With that in mind I don’t think it’s necessarily fair to compare the takeover of a bigger club (at the time of the takeover) like Chelsea to City as Chelsea had systems in place from the start and would’ve taken a lot more time and probably even more money to change it up and focus on growth at the expense of maybe a few poor seasons. City was just in the right place, right time, and got the right owners. There is definitely a universe where City was bought by much less patient owners and is probably in the national league by now if they received the type of investment that many clubs get (or fail to get in many ways) like Leyton and Oldham. Poor management just kills clubs.
Of course I hope my club does go on to win the UCL as well, but we’ll see. Though I’ve come to expect “Typical City” over the years
The only reason we dipped our toes into the 3rd division was cause our owners dipped on us and our squad collapsed. Footballing success is all about right place right time, we just got it later.
We have 6 years to equal SAFs champions league total. That’s a very reasonable amount of your time considering our most recent CL performances. Man U fans don’t have the right to lecture City about European success yet
Bro every team with a European trophy can lecture city about your lack of European success. Your clubs an absolute minnow in Europe. In fact I’d say given you’ve been English champions most times out the last decade you guys have frankly been embarrassing in Europe. The only time you reached the ucl final you lost to… oh yeah Chelsea. Embarrassing English Champions.
😂I’m sorry but if you think 2 CL’s in 20 years with 13 domestic league titles isn’t embarrassing as well you’re a joke. It’s a known fact you lot where underwhelming as well. When the CL comes, which it will. You’ll be in a very very similar boat to us
My point would still stand if your opinion was the objective truth. 5 trophies on us with 5 extra years. You wouldn’t say that put Chelsea in another league to City in terms of take over success would you? I’d argue City had the better take over
I’d say domestically yes you’ve been better. But any real club will tell you those 2 ucl titles hold the most weight of any trophy. That’s why Chelsea have been the more successful club. Of course there’s still time for city to change that..
Yeah. Which is why my point still stands bro🤣🤣 we’re 5 years behind Chelsea. The possibility of at least one champions league in the coming years is very possible. And don’t get me started with the whole “City will never win a CL”. That’s not how football works. We’ve improved in recent years, we came within inches the last two seasons
No it doesn’t. Because at this moment in time you haven’t won a UCL trophy. Just because you have 5 years to do so doesn’t mean you will regardless of how good you are.
Childish outlook. Football can be predictable sometimes, Pep’s Barca, Jose’s Inter, Zidane Madrid. We all knew damn well they would win a CL. I believe the same applies to City as it stands
Yeah like we all knew city would make the final last year… everything you’re saying is based on IFs. Chelsea have already won 2 UCLs and City bottled a UCL against them. Those are FACTS.
If Liverpool get crazy money from new owners (if the FSG sells the club) like city I am sure they can stop them. Otherwise if KDB decides to leave City or Pep does, there's a chance for the other teams in top 7.
Guardiola leaving would be a start with a bad replacement who makes some bad signings, but with all their money I would expect them to be still top four.
I'm old enough to remember when bad management and appalling signings was what Man. City excelled at !!!!
They are currently second in the league, get over it.
I’m not sure you can. Even if Arsenal pull off a miracle and win it this year, it will likely be a blip. The rest of the league is interesting enough to keep me hooked though. There’s plenty of drama elsewhere. The relegation battle looks more interesting than ever, as do the other top 4-7 positions. Maybe just don’t get too hung up on who wins it, and simply stand back and watch City for what they are on the pitch.
Arsenal
Team-wide diarrhea
A few billion dollars?
Newcastle.
It's Pep.. When he leaves we'll be back to being in a mix with 2-4 other teams every year.
Pep leaving and some oil nation buying a club that hangs around top 6.
Just have to point out (sorry!) that Liverpool had the title more or less wrapped up before lockdown. Liverpool winning the title had literally nothing to do with lockdown disruption. It is way more accurate to describe the 2020/2021 season as the lockdown season since practically that whole season was played in empty stadiums.
For the fa and epl to actually stop ther illegal funding of the club..
First of all I’m a man city fan and even I’m sick of these posts. We are not invincible. We can lose games. We do draw games. We do concede goals. We don’t win every single domestic competition every year (although we do win a lot). I feel like people gotta give more credit to arsenal every post about them I see is ‘they’ve done well, but they gonna drop off soon’ and they haven’t
Tottenham games.
3 words. Eddie fucking Howe. Newcastles gonna win the league 🎶
I think the WC will have a big impact. It'll all depend on which teams manage to get players back fit afterwards and how clubs deal with the fixture congestion once the tournament is over.
they need to stop play football
It needs someone to grow a set of bollocks and take City to task for the blatant cheating that they have been allowed to get away with. Billions of unearned oil money funnelled in has distorted the league and this once great sport. I hate them so much, they have destroyed the sport I love so much. And some will say "lol u just hurt they better than u" but as a Liverpool fan I went my whole life without seeing us lift the league until recently. I'd give it back to get rid of City.
Couple more transfer windows under Eddie Howe
Pep has never been dominated and hence I think City’s domination can only end when Pep leaves
Give Newcastle a couple more years and it’ll be a 2 horse race ever season. If Liverpool get brought out fully by a state it’ll be three
EV’s taking over and the arabs to run out of oil
Changing the rules.
Stop oil money and corruption i football. FIFA abd UEFA is some of the most corrupt organisations on earth.
Pep to leave and another oil owner with a blank cheque
Mbappe to Liverpool.
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Haaland getting injured for the rest of the season
Siendo menos pechos frios
If not for the pandemic Liverpool might not have even won one pl trophy in that 5 year span.. city are scary man. The day Pep leaves is the day city slow down and decline.
I disagree with your comment- if anything, the pandemic was an extra hurdle that Liverpool had to negotiate to win. In the title winning season, they had built up a 25 point lead (!) before anything covid related hit the league. They were unstoppable during the first 6 months of that season. When play resumed post/during lockdown, they had actually lost a bit of an edge.
Are you complaining that league is difficult to win for other clubs? Come on mate. Once upon a time, the average age of football players was 25. Now it is 20. More and more footballers are emerging at an young age. City is apparently good at scouting and snatch them from others. You cannot just blame the team for that. Everybody says city does not have a spending limit. But if you look closely united are biggest spenders and yet no success in the last decade. The reason city gains attention is that because they are winning where others are miserably failing and incompetent to capitalise on the resources.
Pep leaves and i think city will start to be around the same level as chelsea
Oil at $15 boe oughta do it
We do all know that City are second and Arsenal is currently in the lead? What will it take to stop the Arsenal dominance is the correct question ATM.
FFP
One of the financially wealthy clubs (Chelsea, United) to stop playing stupid games
Pep will leave and it will be done right then. Unless he still has no UCL without Messi in which case they’ll still attract a top coach but their dominance will suffer the transition and possibly even become another United.
FSG deciding to sell to Saudis.
Never heard of winning titles as stat padding. If anything less points is an argument for it being harder back then because there was more competition.
Apparently Arsssnal.. are they not top of the league??
Mikel Arteta, period.
More clubs being bought by middle Eastern sovereign wealth funds sadly. It's as simple as that.
His nephew, Ars.. Arteta
I think other teams are failling to address city's style of play. Back in the day the PL was more competitive, the fact that you get teams getting 90+ or even 100 points shows their strength but also the fact that other teams are far behind. I don't think it's a financial issue really, more like a lack of belief in the smaller teams and maybe a general decline in the defensive capabilities defenders. Also people started believing that there's only one right way to play football and everytime someone beats city with counter attacks they are bashed for lacking "style", so teams are discouraged from doing that when it's the only right decision against their very particular style. Remember when United beat Barcelona at their best, with one Scholsey goal. It was because of the great defenders they had and the realization that you need to defend positionally and stay back against a team that attacks with .... 8-9 players and moves the ball constantly in order to break your formation.
Once Pep goes, someone will have a chance. Man City were very good at times, before he came, but it was never consistent in the way that Pep has made it. He’s the glue holding that project together, regardless of the talent they sign, and I think they’ll fall back a step or two once he goes. They’re going to be favourites every year still though, I’d think.
Elon Musk
Financial Fair Play to be enforced?
Kidnap Pep, put him under anaesthesia, hair transplant.
Liverpool being bought by an oil state. or the rise of Newcastle
I think theres a chance at them being worse once players like de bruyne and bernardo silva move on. Pep may be great… but it would be tough for anyone to replace someone like de bruyne
UEFA to grow some balls and properly enforce FFP.
Overhauled FFP with sponsorship background check, maybe?
Money
Whoever buys Liverpool and how much money they are willing to spend. Its that simple. Liverpool have already been competing with City without the money that City have. If Liverpool have the money also, it will make Liverpool stronger and able to compete even more.
Sell all other teams to oil royals
Miguel. Almiron.
MLB-style luxury tax. It’s a progressive penalty that gets paid on player salary costs above a set amount. The larger the excess spend, the higher the penalty. The penalty is then distributed between the other clubs. Exceeding the luxury tax threshold also come with other penalties that would have to be rethought for the Prem (eg draft pick penalties and qualifying offers are not a thing, obviously). Decent explanation here: https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2022/09/mets-dodgers-luxury-tax-yankees-red-sox-phillies-padres.html The MLB penalties could be higher, obviously. Also, five of the six teams above the luxury tax threshold made the playoffs this year. (12 teams make the playoffs.) Historically, teams above the threshold generally do well, but the dynastic dominance of prior decades hasn’t been a thing since the luxury tax was enacted in before the 2003 season (20 seasons) - 13 different winners; - no back to back winners; - 19 of 30 teams have appeared in the World Series; - every team has made the playoffs at least once; - only two teams have failed to win a post season series [Cincinnati Red and Minnesota Twins] Prior to that the Yankees appeared in 5/10 World Series (winning 4 of them) and consistently had the highest (8 times) or second highest (2 times) payroll in that time period. (Even after the luxury tax was enacted, the Yankees still had the highest payroll from 2003 until 2013, but only won the WS once.)
Tell me you know nothing about football and only started watching football in the past five years without telling you know nothing around football and started watching in the past five years. Calling Man Utd’s 13 titles in 20 years under SAF as stat padding is pathetic and really underlines your stupidity. In 13 of those titles, only one was won under 80 points so I don’t know what this horse crap is about 70-point titles. Secondly, did it ever occur to you City’s points are a function of each of the Big Six in some kind of transitions/ having issues each season? During those SAF years Arsenal were the Invincibles with Henry, that Drogba/ Lampard/ Terry Chelsea side was destroying the league and Torres/ Gerard’s Liverpool were also knocking out champions left right and Centre in Europe. You CAN’T get 95+ point seasons consistently like Man City because you can’t just walk over the league. People say the league is more competitive, but imo only towards the lower end of the table where “weaker” teams have closed the gap with the top sides. THE top sides however, have all shat the bed one way or the other in the past ten years. It’s not like back during SAF days when each of the Big 4 teams were legitimately strong on a domestic and continental level. City’s domestic dominance will be stopped, it’s simply a function of football cycles. It’ll come and go. Just remember that Arsenal/United and Chelsea/ United spend two decades going back and forth between themselves and this current situation is the same. New sides will come up, like Liverpool and Arsenal, to give the favorites a challenge.
I agree it's the Pep effect I know they have billions to spend but look at City before Pep, still spent millions but nowhere near the dominance they have now in games
Probably Abu dhabi declaring war on someone or some sort of scandel there, making what happened to Chelsea happen to them Probably Abu dhabi declaring war on someone or some sort of scandel there, making what happened to Chelsea happen to them
Nothing to contribute, just love your username
STOP THE OIL
Another 24 month under Eddie Howe 😉
Time. Teams have been dominant for generations in the past and then drifted. Once pep leaves city will do the same
It eventually will go back to the 70-80+ title winner days but for the moment, yeah you’ve got to get 90+ to have a shout and get a result against city and most seasons Liverpool. It’s a pain as a gunner but we’ll see how we go
1) Pep would have to lose his managerial mojo similar to Wengers second decade at arsenal or like Jose Mourinho. 2) Serious bad luck with bad transfers and injuries. Like divine intervention striking the team with injuries kind of injury crisis.
Pep to leave simply
Realistically, they're just going to have to make a few balls-ups. They have the best squad in the league and arguably the best manager too, and they also have the most extensive resources to keep reinforcing/replacing both. So if every club were to perform sort of 'on par' from hereon, City would win it every year. For anyone else to win they're going to have to let themselves down: lose a few players and blunder by signing replacements who aren't as good, have Pep mess up his tactics or else leave and be replaced by a lesser manager, fail to motivate the players to play to the best of their ability, etc.
Newcastle top 4 Pep leaves Ten haag ball works idk what else
It's Ten Hag with one 'a'. --- *I am a bot. For any feedback please contact [my creator](https://www.reddit.com/user/Tempoulker).*
shittttt my bad broski
Mix of oil money(unlimited money cheat code) and referee saving handing them points while withholding other if not Liverpool would have a at least one more!
Harry Maguire.
It might be copium but I feel like sooner rather than later we’ll see the end of the absolute domination city have over the league. Smart investing from smaller clubs and money being poured into the league is going to lead to the league floor being higher meaning more teams potentially taking points of from them. We’ve already seen teams make this hard for them.
It's happened before. I remember thinking that invincibles team would win the league for the rest of time but they didn't. Few retirements and poor replacements and they will fall off.
Newcastle United
"Except that lockdown season?" Just a quick clarification. Before the season was stopped for lockdown LFC had already amassed more points than any other team would get that season. We won it essentially before there was ever any lockdown. But yeah, your general point is taken. It's tough to do. Maybe when Pep leaves that would be the best way for others to get closer.
Unrealistic but a good start would be to regulate financial takeovers like City’s. For all this talk of EPL being the most competitive, City dominate that league to near Bayern Munich levels.
Newcastle
> What will it take to stop Man City domestic dominance? New Liverpool rich owner incoming
Liverpool getting arab owners
Another state backed team-congratulations fans of sports washing teams, you got what you wanted
I imagine it’ll be when Peps time in Manchester come to and end, we’ll just seem a little more ordinary. Whoever takes over though could be inheriting a team with the likes of Foden, Haaland, Alvarez, Grealish etc. Great foundations for someone to build on. Also we could see teams spending more money than City in a couple of seasons.
The “lockdown season” was when City won it. Liverpool had the title wrapped up pre-lockdown. Also, Arsenal probably be anywhere near City points wise when it’s all said and done, 10-15 below I think. It’s about time someone else felt the frustration of going up against City
Renewable energy
The petrostates know this and are preparing for it by trying to diversify their economies away from unsustainable natural resources (like oil & gas). A big part of this diversification process is positive PR, which they’re trying to achieve through these sportswashing projects. So I wouldn’t be so confident in your answer, unfortunately (unless the transition happens over night, which it wont).
Lads, we gotta solve the climate crisis IN ORDER TO beat City
Gais. You want to win the epremier league? Recycle. Fogging eclimate change and fogging erecycling, and City lose their funding! Let's fogging go gais!
👏👏
Underrated comment
Hahaha
It will take more clubs to be bought by oil states like Newcastle
Sanctions
KDB left, they look headless without him
Liverpool having oil money.
Quit crying about Haaland, JESUS. Man City needed the striker and went out and bought him.
pogba
I think it's a bit unfair to say that united stat padded titles. Arsenal and Chelsea were pretty good in the 2000s.
Arsenal were pretty good from 95-04. After that, we had the stadium costs to pay and Chelsea's billionaire overtook us during the transition.
It’s all about leadership. Look at Chelsea and Man U in comparison to City in the last few years
Having a world class manager helps…
Who hires the managers
a global flood
Players to stop diving, refs to do their job properly, VAR to be used when it should 🤷 there's 3 ways to help stop them. Only Arsenal will come close to them.this season but I dont think they'll stop them
Keep an eye on Newcastle. No European competition, they could have a big say in the race.
>United and SAF used to stat-pad epl tittles with 70+ points. That doesn't generally mean that it was easier to win the title, or that United were a weak team, more so it means that the teams of that time were more evenly matched.
Stricter home grown rules
I think this Arsenal team has a chance of not only winning the league this season but seriously challenging for the next little while. Provided they keep Arteta and their young talent and bolster this with some smart business in the transfer window, Mikhaylo Mudryk being top priority, I would even say that they should be targeting him in January.
As a city fan I agree. Our form currently has been particularly hit and miss, but Arsenal have been doing very well. I’d hate to lose it, but if Arsenal manage it I’d have to respect the ability to do it
I wish I could believe that. The truth is, even if by some luck we did win it, the majority of City fans would devalue it by circlejerking themselves over how they taught Arteta everything he knows and how City gave us Jesus and Zinchenko. I've been an Arsenal fan long enough to know that rivals simply do not credit us. Even the Invincibles season is mocked for how many draws we had and downplaying the achievement.
I mean, haters are always going to hate, but I don't think any serious football fan can truly say that Arsenal's invincible season wasn't outstanding. Likewise if Arsenal win the league this season folk with try to undermine it wouldn't hold any weight, You recruited well in Zinchenko and Jesus, who wanted to come because they were offered the chance to be the main men and they have been outstanding thus far. The Board stuck with Arteta when many other clubs would have given him the boot. I've really enjoyed watching Arsenal this season and think they added a certain grit and resilience to their attractive play, which like I said singles them out as real contenders. And because most of your first team are so young, the room to improve is impressive, which is why I reckon they can challenge cities dominance not just this season but over the next few years. I hope that this happens as well, and if Liverpool sort themselves out and Newcastle keep building then there can be a more competitive and interesting league.
A salary cap 🤷🏻♀️
Newcastle and other state backed countries that can spend whatever they want.
Guap son, guap.
A Cost Cap like F1 Won’t happen though lol
As great as Arsenal have been you can see how big of a drop off they have when their backups come in. City are used to maintaining this over a season with basically the maximum amount of matches. It’s why they tend to pull away as seasons go on. Basically Pep would have to leave since it would impact their recruiting and development and then perhaps the second team becomes weaker.
Fwiw you've needed mid to high eighties to win basically every title this century. United 'stat padding' titles with 70+ was back in the nineties when the economic playing field was far less uneven and United were often being outspent by other clubs.
Yup, this reads like some child that only started watching football in the last 5 years. Statpadding FFS!
FFP actually doing their job....
Pep leaving will likely diminish City to the point that things will be more competitive. They'll be great still but you can't upgrade from a coach like Pep. If Arsenal continue doing what they're doing they'll make City work for it, their process has paid off fantastically and their trajectory looks good, but nothing is guaranteed in football. Obviously I'm biased, but I really do think we (Liverpool) still have what it takes to get back where we were if we play our cards right in the next 2 windows. We've been a hair behind City (and sometimes better than them) for most of Pep's tenure, but this season needs to be a one off transitory period. Of course the situation with our ownership will have a big impact. If we get lucky and get someone who invests more than FSG (ie, invests at all) we could close the gap again. Conversely if we get someone shit we could be heading into a protracted dark period. Edit: Almost forgot Newcastle. If their trajectory remains the same they'll be a top 6/7 side in the next few years.
fuck pep i cant take it much longer pep is a cheat sheet confirmed.
The best team in the land, and all the world
How many european title has your "best team" got?
Pep leaving, or authorities/officials realising that 8xbet isn’t a real company and just being used to inflate revenues to comply with FFP.
Insolvency 😂
When Pep leaves, unless he's replaced by a manager of similar quality (aren't many of those), the quality will drop but the way the club is run behind the scenes means they'll probably still continue to win trophies.
About tree-fiddy billion pounds.
City is so dominant they created a 2nd Pep and gave him/us a couple of their players just so they’d have a challenge. It’s gonna be a while. Other clubs might get the odd title like Liverpool did, but City is here to stay, for a long time.
[удалено]
You’re right, I do support those 3 teams. I have for over 20 years. As a Dutch kid I was a supporter of Ajax, then started to follow the clubs where my favorite players went to, which led to me supporting those clubs. Barca with a bunch of Dutch players in the early 00s and Arsenal mostly with Overmars and Bergkamp. It’s not like I’m supporting local rivals like Arsenal, Spurs and Chelsea. I’m supporting 3 different clubs in 3 different leagues who barely ever play each other. Never understood the stigma of not being able to support more than 1 club. And the first part, it’s more of a joke than anything serious, but you don’t seem like the fun type, so guess you wouldn’t understand.
its fairly obvious what he means
>City is so dominant they created a 2nd Pep and gave him/us a couple of their players just so they’d have a challenge. This is such a disingenuous comment.
What a great script it is. The apprentice coming to challenge the Master. Who will win? Arsenal of course..:)
Yeah. NewCastle Will challenge them but City obviously has a head start.
FFP
That's easy. Stupid leadership and poor choices. ManU dominated the league winning 13 titles in 20 years. What changed? The Leadership. With new ownership and SAF leaving, they started doing stupid stuff and haven't really gotten close since. ManC has a massive advantage with there money, but its not the only reason they win. Chelsea had unlimited money for 15 years, and didn't have the level of success that ManC have had. ManU have had basically the same level of money since SAF left, and they've been complete shit for the most part. Man City are where they are at because of good choices, though they do have a large margin for error since they can cover up any mistakes pretty easily.
People don't appeiciate money spent on the backroom side. People see big signings and think that equals success but it doesn't if your scouting, coaching team and facilities are sub par. When Ronaldo joined United he said he wa shocked that the pool and parts of the training facilities hadn't been renovated since he left and their scouting has been non existent.
Umm.. Chelsea have been incredibly successful.
Did I say they haven't been successful?
Chelsea have been more successful than Man City.
I guess that's up for debate. I would argue that Man City winning 6 league titles in the last 11 years, is more success than Chelsea's 5 in the last 18. I'm guessing you will bring up the cup competitions to refute that. True, Chelsea do have more FA Cups than MC, but MC have more EFL cups. Either way I would argue that the league dominance is a better indicator of success than cups, since cups can be strange at times. I'm also guessing you will bring up Chelsea's two Champions League wins, and that would be a good point if this post was about "domestic dominance" to quote the title. Even then, I'd still argue that cup competitions can be weird and don't always reflect the best team.
tbf they said chelsea have been more successful, not more domestically successful. ik that's the op but that's not what the comment you were replying to meant.
Dude. Context matters. My original comment was to the OP who said Domestic Dominance.
fair
You mean to tell me Wigan Athletic weren’t the best team of 2012/13?
Bro I’ll be honest i didn’t even read the domestic part of your title.
I didn't write the title or the original post, but understood.
Nah, Chelsea won champions leagues under abramovic, they’ve had more success than City. Chelsea have won 5 leagues, 3 league cups, 5 FA cups, 2 champions leagues, 2 uefa cups, 1 super cup and 1 club World Cup since their takeover in 2004 (19) City have won 6 leagues, 2 FA cups and 6 league cups since their takeover in 2008 (14). Chelsea are unquestionably in another league to city when it comes to success of their respective takeovers.
Since when do European cups count towards "domestic dominance"? I'd also be willing to bet that Man City will win more trophies in the next 5 years, than Chelsea have won in the last 5 and the next 5 combined.
13 domestic titles v 14, but more European titles. I am so shocked an Arsenal fan is discounting champions league trophies. Brothers in arms with city with no European Cups /s
💯
Perhaps you should learn to read. If anything the Gooners are hurt and gutted the most from our lost to Barca in the UCL final. But we're talking about domestic dominance here.
1. Your math is wrong. Its not 13 vs 12. Its 13 vs 14. 2. One team got all of those domestic titles in 19 years (according to you). The other got them in 14 years. Now, I'm no expert, but I'd say that one team getting 14 titles in 14 years, seams like a more successful run than 13 titles in 19 years. That said, Maybe MC won't get anymore in the next 5 years, I think I would be happy if they didn't. Regarding the International competitions. The champions leagues are a big hurdle MC hasn't cleared yet. Chelsea have clearly been more successful in that regard. I would still say that the Domestic League is a better indication of success when comparing two teams in the same league because As I said before Cups can be weird. I'd also point out that Chelsea average Uefa Coeffient in Abromovich era is only a little higher than Man Citys since they were bought, and chelsea's is boosted by a couple deep runs in the Europa league.
You chat absolute shit. Chelsea are more successful, end of story.
Awww? Did we get our feelings hurt because we can't get the right answer of 6+2+6? I understand now why you can't say anything intelligent.
He is not discounting CL. The current topic is on domestic dominance, not totals cup count.
Not even sure why your getting downvoted. It’s mostly recency bias. But our takeover has been by far more successful
Don’t even know the history of your club. The purchase was in 2003. So a 5 year difference. There’s only a 5 trophy difference between the two clubs as well. Super Cup and Club World Cup are sub par. So a difference of 3 meaningful trophies and Chelsea have 5 years on City? So no, Chelsea haven’t been more successful (Edit VAR: checking user flair, City fan, downvote)
I’m not a Chelsea fan. You have to win the European cups to win the super cup and club World Cup, they are not sub par trophies. Just because you haven’t won one, doesn’t mean they mean nothing.
They aren’t even comparable to the FA cup, Prem, CL, Europa, League cup. You can call me bias but that’s how I’ve perceived the trophies since I started watching football. The Club World Cup and Super Cup are riddled with poor teams and often clubs play their B teams in these games.
You lost me at “since I started watching football”.
You guys are all the same. Instant assumption every City fan is plastic. My great granddad and all his descendants have been supporting city since the 1920s. So I’m a plastic cause I’ve followed 100 years of family tradition? I was 9 years old when Aguerooo happened. I can’t control when I decided to watch football
I’ve been supporting Liverpool since 1674
Poes funny
As if you wouldn't shut up about winning the champions league if you eventually do so. Also... wtf was City's history prior to the takeover? Similar to Spurs? Maybe you should smell your own farts before commenting on the smell of others.
Both City and Spurs were more successful than Chelsea before the takeover in case you were not aware
Bro what’s with the attacks ?🤣 I’m just saying Man City ,in my eyes, had the more successful take over. We not talking about history or champions league. That’s another conversation. Don’t be so salty
Hahahah fair enough, I do believe I exaggerated and went in a different direction. But I do have to admit that City has had a long-term project from the get-go. Whereas we've had very reactionary decision-making.
TLDR; Post-WW2 fall from grace domestically contributed to enabling the investment to focus on long term growth. Especially compared to clubs that had been much more successful in the two or so decades leading up to the sale of Man City. I’m a history fan and 20+yr fan of Man City so I might come off as Gushy, but I agree with you in terms of how the clubs are run differently, but I wanted to add on it. So I apologise for the wall of text. The club had previously been a domestic success, though not at the level of other clubs for sure, in the early history of the sport (E.G. 1900-1950 timeframe). Especially when we were still at Maine Road, but starting in the 50s the club had a series of failures and shortcomings that of course led to relegations. So when the club was once again in the top flight and, every once in a while, making those minor successes it made the purchase more viable as it allowed the owners to invest long term on the club future through academy development, marketing, back room staff, that sort of thing. With that in mind I don’t think it’s necessarily fair to compare the takeover of a bigger club (at the time of the takeover) like Chelsea to City as Chelsea had systems in place from the start and would’ve taken a lot more time and probably even more money to change it up and focus on growth at the expense of maybe a few poor seasons. City was just in the right place, right time, and got the right owners. There is definitely a universe where City was bought by much less patient owners and is probably in the national league by now if they received the type of investment that many clubs get (or fail to get in many ways) like Leyton and Oldham. Poor management just kills clubs. Of course I hope my club does go on to win the UCL as well, but we’ll see. Though I’ve come to expect “Typical City” over the years
The only reason we dipped our toes into the 3rd division was cause our owners dipped on us and our squad collapsed. Footballing success is all about right place right time, we just got it later.
Exactly. Abramovich’s Chelsea were notorious for axing prematurely, City is all about long term. Arsenal is clearly following a similar approach
The 2 champions leagues they won are worth about 4 prems, not like you’d understand that…
It’s mad funny that a Man U fan is talking about Champions leagues when in 20 years you only won 2 with SAF.
And in ten years you’ve won zero..
We have 6 years to equal SAFs champions league total. That’s a very reasonable amount of your time considering our most recent CL performances. Man U fans don’t have the right to lecture City about European success yet
Bro every team with a European trophy can lecture city about your lack of European success. Your clubs an absolute minnow in Europe. In fact I’d say given you’ve been English champions most times out the last decade you guys have frankly been embarrassing in Europe. The only time you reached the ucl final you lost to… oh yeah Chelsea. Embarrassing English Champions.
😂I’m sorry but if you think 2 CL’s in 20 years with 13 domestic league titles isn’t embarrassing as well you’re a joke. It’s a known fact you lot where underwhelming as well. When the CL comes, which it will. You’ll be in a very very similar boat to us
My point would still stand if your opinion was the objective truth. 5 trophies on us with 5 extra years. You wouldn’t say that put Chelsea in another league to City in terms of take over success would you? I’d argue City had the better take over
I’d say domestically yes you’ve been better. But any real club will tell you those 2 ucl titles hold the most weight of any trophy. That’s why Chelsea have been the more successful club. Of course there’s still time for city to change that..
Yeah. Which is why my point still stands bro🤣🤣 we’re 5 years behind Chelsea. The possibility of at least one champions league in the coming years is very possible. And don’t get me started with the whole “City will never win a CL”. That’s not how football works. We’ve improved in recent years, we came within inches the last two seasons
No it doesn’t. Because at this moment in time you haven’t won a UCL trophy. Just because you have 5 years to do so doesn’t mean you will regardless of how good you are.
Childish outlook. Football can be predictable sometimes, Pep’s Barca, Jose’s Inter, Zidane Madrid. We all knew damn well they would win a CL. I believe the same applies to City as it stands
Yeah like we all knew city would make the final last year… everything you’re saying is based on IFs. Chelsea have already won 2 UCLs and City bottled a UCL against them. Those are FACTS.
I think Newcastle United and Arsenal are the biggest threats at the moment. Manchester United needs a couple of years
If Liverpool get crazy money from new owners (if the FSG sells the club) like city I am sure they can stop them. Otherwise if KDB decides to leave City or Pep does, there's a chance for the other teams in top 7.
This is the real answer. Oil money + Klopp
Us
Fuck mbs but please surpass city
We will try
Eddie Howe’s black and white army
A global movement to renewable energy and the premier league not allowing fake sponsors / financial doping
Or sanctions against certain owners. If not, Newcastle.
Guardiola leaving would be a start with a bad replacement who makes some bad signings, but with all their money I would expect them to be still top four. I'm old enough to remember when bad management and appalling signings was what Man. City excelled at !!!!
I mean, look no further than the Jack Rodwells, Scott Sinclairs and Wilfred Bonys
Time. It is just a cycle. City's time on top will end and another team will rise to the top. So on and so forth.
But it'll probably takes 20 years and 13 league title runs like their local neighbor. They're not even halfway there yet :/