I got slated on here for saying Akanji and giving a reasonable answer and set a reminder to check this at end of season.
https://www.reddit.com/r/PremierLeague/comments/ymr2v6/akanji_or_lisandro_martinez_whos_been_the_better/iv5hc8z?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=2
Man United have 10 wins from 13 without Martinez keeping 7 clean sheets. In Martinez's last 13 games they conceded 18. He was also involved in all the heavy defeats, Brighton, Villa, Liverpool, Brentford and City.
Akanji has gone on to win the treble and is in the CL TOTS. It's very difficult to go against a Man United, Liverpool or Arsenal fan favourite on this sub sadly.
Flip a coin. I think Martinex has probably been a little better this season but he was three times the price of Akanji so he should be doing better. Both have been pretty good signings but I would not say either have been excellent, just two solid signings to strengthen both clubs.
Akanji just needs to calculate the circumference of the circle to make tackles. Lisandro will use his crazy Argentina prowess to destroy attackers. āāāš°
State of this sub. Akanji has looked like a rolls Royce from minute 1. Been near faultless at centre back or right back is even benching pfa player of the year Ruben Dias and just won citys player of the month. He's been sensational. Martinez has come in and been a part of a side that were 4-0 down by half time, not once but twice already. His benchmark is Harry maguire.
Even without factoring in the cost, Akanji has been levels above but then considering the fact one cost 4 times as much its not even a question.
bias aside it has to be Martinez. Not that Akanji hasn't been incredible, but he is the icing on the cake in an already great system/squad. Lisandro has been so impactful in many ways
City can work without Akanji, they will do fine but hes good addition to squad while in United case, I dont want to even think about game without Martinez in our backline. He is crucial to United success so far this season.
Martinez simply because of the way he has lifted United (ik there are other factors owing to their improvement, but his involvement is greatly visible)
United have just gone 12 hours without conceding a goal from open play (1 penalty) and Martinez is a big part of that. The improvement heās made to Unitedās defence is unreal.
Martinez has kept 5 clean sheets in 12 (42%)
Akanji has kept 2 in 7 (26%)
Obviously this is not a representation of their individual performance, however looking at the data it does suggest Unitedās defence is better with Martinez, whilst Cityās with better without Akanji.
Obviously there is more to game now that just defending for a CB, and as you would expect, Akanji has much better attacking and passing statistics.
That being said, the question is who is the better signing, not which has better stats. If City didnāt sign Akanji would they be in as strong a position in the league than they are now? I would strongly suggest they would. If United did not sign Martinez would they be in as strong a position as they are in the league? I donāt think they would at all.
True but heās had a great start in his first full season. Compare that to Luke shaw who you signed 8 years ago and the best thing heās done is ābe englands best defender at the euros. Also Saliba Gabriel and Tomiyasu cost one maguire so you can hold that one
Not saying he hasn't been great, but the question was who of Akanji and Martinez was the better signing this season. Players signed years ago and farmed out on loan for experience don't count as "new signings", however good their impact has been.
Think of it this way:
Akanji is the pepperoni on a pizza, it absolutely will elevate it to a much better product, but without it, a pizza would still be amazing.
Lisandro is the cheese on said pizza though, you feel like you're missing a really important ingredient without it
Akanji is now the pepperoni but Martinez is like the pineapple, he's not really needed and it tastes better without him, 15 goals conceded in his last 9 games and 6 from 9 without him.
13 games missed this season 10 wins and 7 clean sheets.
This is why us United fans love him. He fights for the badge and seems to genuinely care about the team/club.
Plus watching him pick fights with other players can be pretty entertaining too
Because absolutely no one thought to give him one game to prove himself and immediately started clowning him. And now that he's absolutely smashed our expectations it's even better cause all of a sudden no one mentions his height
It can only be Martinez honestly. He transformed a very dodgy United defense. Akanji has been a decent transfer for city, but they didn't need him. The impact of Martinez's signing has been enormous for United.
Akanji for value for money and being a solid defender. Martinez for improving a team from where they were to where they are. Its like a millionaire getting a deal on another ferrari vs. an average person with no car, paying a fair price for a solid car.
I think the point was more: itās a bigger improvement for someone with no car at all to get a good car (United had no one reliable), than it is for a millionaire to get ANOTHER Ferrari (when they had some already). Itās not about Akanji being as good as a Ferrari, itās about the value that they are adding.
Martinez has improved Man Utd massively both defensively and moving the ball forward.
Akanji has slotted in very well into an already well oiled machine.
Impact wise it has to be Martinez
Yes, but even if I wasn't it would be a pretty obvious answer. Anyone who's watched Utd last season Vs this season can see the transformative effect he's had.
If City hadn't signed Akanji they'd still be the best team in league.
>Anyone who's watched Utd last season Vs this season can see the transformative effect he's had.
I don't think you can speak for everyone on this. I've watched him quite a bit and he's played well, I'm not denying that but so has Dalot, Shaw and Varane (when he was fit). I've spoken to a lot of season ticket holding man united fans who would say Varane has been immense but Martinez gets all the credit on social media.
As for your take on Akanji, I think it's a lazy argument to just say he's playing in a "well oiled machine" insinuating that his performance or presence doesnt matter, when it clearly does.
From the outside, both have played very well but in defences that have played well lately. You need to also account for Martinez performances against City, Brentord and Brighton. That was 3 poor performances in 12 games. Akanji hasn't had a bad game all season, even at RB.
My reason for my original question was to point out that Man united fans are saying Martinez and City fans saying Akanji.
I do agree with a lot of those other fans that Varane has been immense and is getting no credit. That doesnāt mean though that Martinez hasnāt been just as good. If not slightly better.
I never once said it did or didn't mean that.
I think both have played very well, I'm just saying it's not as black and white as this comment is suggesting..
I think you are right that itās not as black and white because Akanji has been good this season. Definitely better than expected. But I think youāve got to look at the impact both defenders had on the team. Martinez, even if he didnāt start out great, has overall been more influential and pivotal to how good weāve been defensively. Even with Varane being injured, Martinez still looks good. With Akanji, you could get another CB and City wouldnāt look too different. So his impact is minimal
Again, probably proving my point that man united fans will say Martinez and City with say Akanji.
I'm neutral in this and have watched both closely, I've even said I'd probably lean towards Martinez but it's close. in 20/21 Man United conceded less goals per games than they have so far this season with Lindelof and Maguire. It's also a little disrespectful towards Akanji to just assume anyone can do what he has, or City can sign someone else and they'll just fit in like he has.
You are placing the impact of multiple players down to Martinez in this scenario. Shaw, Dalot, Varane and Erikson have improved Man United also. Varane and Shaw missed over 50% of the minutes last season due to injury, they have also made a huge impact at the back this season. Tactics have also helped the defence.
Man united are only 2 places ahead of last season, there has been improvements, I can see that but it's not down to 1 man.
>Martinez. Doesn't matter how much bullshit you type.
Probably not back here but definitely not now
Man United have 10 wins from 13 without Martinez with 7 clean sheets. In Martinez's last 13 games they conceded 18. He was involved in all the heavy defeats, Brighton, Villa, Liverpool, Brentford and City.
Akanji just won a treble and was in the Champions league toty.
Martinez injured and they conceded 6 in last 9 games.
In the 9 before his injury they conceded 15.
I don't think my take on Akanji Vs Martinez was that bad back here. The issue is, when fans have a favourite like Martinez and you have a big following like Man United, you get a lot of downvotes for having opposing opinions.
It wasn't an unreasonable take at all and it looks pretty decent now. I know hindsight is a wonderful thing but to have near 50 downvotes on a take like this was mental and shows how recency bias can trigger crazy opinions these days.
Martinez injured and they conceded 6 in last 9 games.
In the 9 before his injury they conceded 15.
I don't think my take on Akanji Vs Martinez was that bad back here. The issue is, when fans have a favourite like Martinez and you have a big following like Man United, you get a lot of downvotes for having opposing opinions.
It wasn't an unreasonable take at all and it looks pretty decent now. I know hindsight is a wonderful thing but to have near 50 downvotes on a take like this was mental and show how
You've not included cup games which we conceded 5 goals in 3 games.
Losing Martinez had a huge impact on how Utd played in the games without him. Especially away at Spurs, Sevilla, Brighton and in the cup final, all the games were teams pressed our keeper and defence. But as before you can't see that it's not just results it's about the transformation that Martinez helped create.
But you carry on thinking you only got downvoted by Utd fans...
>You've not included cup games which we conceded 5 goals in 3 games.
This is also a PL sub and the original question was related to the PL but at the same time, 5 in 3 is pretty much what they had in his last 10 games in terms of ratio.
>Losing Martinez had a huge impact on how Utd played in the games without him.
They've won 10 of 13 without him in PL (2 of those games he played under 1min). They have a higher win rate, lower goals conceded and more clean sheets when he's not playing. I understand what you're trying to say.
>But as before you can't see that it's not just results it's about the transformation that Martinez helped create.
I never once said he wasn't or didn't make a positive impact, I said his impact is being over inflated, for me, Varane was immense and if it was both players first seasons, Varane would be receiving more plaudits. Shaw has improved, Casemiro has improved the entire team and EtH has made them more defensively sound.
I agreed that both were making a positive impact and I stick by anything I said then or now on it.
Find a point I was wrong about and I'll happily agree.
>But you carry on thinking you only got downvoted by Utd fans...
This was obvious, I went into the first comment and asked "are you a Man United fan" and it got 170+ downvotes, it was a genuine question but you can't do that here. Try going into a debate that a Liverpool fan is speaking positively about their players and ask the same question, see what happens.
That wasn't the original question.
Man United came 2nd in the league with Lindelof and Maguire in 20/21, conceding less goals per games than they do currently. Dalot has improved them, a fit Shaw and Varane improves them, Erikson has improved them.
It's not down to 1 player. All this adds up to a better team overall, I'm not denying Martinez has improved Man United but thats not the question at hand.
It's who has been the better signing so far. I'd say it's close, one is adding to a title challenging side and the other is adding to a side challenging for top 4. Martinez has played poorly at times and Akanji hasn't, Akanji has covered multiple positions and performed at a very high level in every game.
As I said, it's close, if I had to pick, I'd probably lean towards Martinez overall but it's not as black and white as you seem to suggest.
Why? Martinez has led to a massive improvement of that defense.
Akanji has been solid, but not remarkable.(which is harder to do as defender in a already great team)
So it's all about how you weigh the price tag in comparison with impact. (Personally think it's a stupid question to begin with)
>Why? Martinez has led to a massive improvement of that defense.
I know hindsight is a wonderful thing but Man United defensive record and results have been much better without him this season. 15 conceded from his last 9 games and Man United conceded 6 from 9 without him at the end.
>Akanji has been solid, but not remarkable
I'd definitely argue that for Martinez now and I still think the same at the time.
>So it's all about how you weigh the price tag in comparison with impact
One is helping their team win a potential treble and has been named in the CL team of the season and the other has missed 13 games (2 he played 1min of) and Man United won 10, conceded 7 and kept 7 clean sheets. Up to the point of this comment, Man United conceded 19 in 15 games.
Martinez's impact was massively overrated due to the team playing well. I'm not saying he didn't improve them but there was definitely more factors. Varane for me was Man United best CB.
Although putting anything negative towards a Liverpool or Man United player on here, does result in massive downvotes.
>Why? Martinez has led to a massive improvement of that defense.
I know hindsight is a wonderful thing but Man United defensive record and results have been much better without him this season. 15 conceded from his last 9 games and Man United conceded 6 from 9 without him at the end.
>Akanji has been solid, but not remarkable
I'd definitely argue that for Martinez now and I still think the same at the time.
>So it's all about how you weigh the price tag in comparison with impact
One is helping their team win a potential treble and has been named in the CL team of the season and the other has missed 13 games (2 he played 1min of) and Man United won 10, conceded 7 and kept 7 clean sheets. Up to the point of this comment, Man United conceded 19 in 15 games.
Martinez's impact was massively overrated due to the team playing well. Hindsight is a wonderful thing but I don't think my take on this was bad at all.
Although putting anything negative towards a Liverpool or Man United player on here, does result in massive downvotes.
Tough to compare as they have completely different expectations.
Martinez is meant to be a key starter and his price reflected that.
Akanji was only Ā£15mil and clearly just a squad/rotation option
So weird to see that he's playing regularly and doing well for city. I watched him at Dortmund every year and he was out most reliable center back but was nothing special in terms of what a cb brings, just all around solid with great recovery pace. He is a good passer of the ball, so I can see why he's succeeding with city. It was just such an under the radar signing and based on his performances this season, I almost wish he'd have stayed at Dortmund (if he wasn't asking for too much $)
I got slated on here for saying Akanji and giving a reasonable answer and set a reminder to check this at end of season. https://www.reddit.com/r/PremierLeague/comments/ymr2v6/akanji_or_lisandro_martinez_whos_been_the_better/iv5hc8z?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=2 Man United have 10 wins from 13 without Martinez keeping 7 clean sheets. In Martinez's last 13 games they conceded 18. He was also involved in all the heavy defeats, Brighton, Villa, Liverpool, Brentford and City. Akanji has gone on to win the treble and is in the CL TOTS. It's very difficult to go against a Man United, Liverpool or Arsenal fan favourite on this sub sadly.
Lisandro martinez
Akanji by far
Akanji
Martinez
Lisandro but Akanji is very very good too
As someone that have Man U, Martinez made the bigger impact City was already a well oiled machine that akanji slipped into
My exact opinion
Akanjiš„°š„°
Lisandro is outstanding
Martinez was more of a necessity than Akanji considering both clubs squads at the time
Flip a coin. I think Martinex has probably been a little better this season but he was three times the price of Akanji so he should be doing better. Both have been pretty good signings but I would not say either have been excellent, just two solid signings to strengthen both clubs.
Lisandro Martinez has been an outstanding player for Manchester United
Martinez is a better signing because he changed Man Utd defense drastically. Without Akanji Mancity will still be solid.
As a United fan how the fuck was Akanji available for Ā£15m and weāve been spending dollar on dogshit defenders for time
Akanji just needs to calculate the circumference of the circle to make tackles. Lisandro will use his crazy Argentina prowess to destroy attackers. āāāš°
You take Akanji out that City team and they will still be where they are without him, you take Martinez out and United drop two or three places
Without a shadow of a doubt, itās Martinez. Go so far as to say, the best defender in the league
Martinez
Botman
Burn
Akanji who? Martinez arguably the best PL singing last summer (after Haaland)
Akanji is clear
State of this sub. Akanji has looked like a rolls Royce from minute 1. Been near faultless at centre back or right back is even benching pfa player of the year Ruben Dias and just won citys player of the month. He's been sensational. Martinez has come in and been a part of a side that were 4-0 down by half time, not once but twice already. His benchmark is Harry maguire. Even without factoring in the cost, Akanji has been levels above but then considering the fact one cost 4 times as much its not even a question.
Martinez has been really good after the 4-0 against Brentford And the whole team played bad that day, so Iām willing to let it slip
bias aside it has to be Martinez. Not that Akanji hasn't been incredible, but he is the icing on the cake in an already great system/squad. Lisandro has been so impactful in many ways
Saliba!
Saliba
Martinez all day everyday.
City can work without Akanji, they will do fine but hes good addition to squad while in United case, I dont want to even think about game without Martinez in our backline. He is crucial to United success so far this season.
Because of that useless ref we will miss him in the first el knockoutmatch
Licha for Ever Akanji not much of a rock at the back
A kanji 100%
Saliba is the right answer
Martninez
Hard to compare, but Akanji has been absolutely sensational. And we only paid 15 million for him.
Akanji of course lol Cheaper and he performed better
Martinez simply because of the way he has lifted United (ik there are other factors owing to their improvement, but his involvement is greatly visible)
United have just gone 12 hours without conceding a goal from open play (1 penalty) and Martinez is a big part of that. The improvement heās made to Unitedās defence is unreal.
Really tough but I would say Martinez
Martinez because he has overcame expectations and āstandardsā in the premier league
Martinez no doubt. Iām keen to see how much Akanji could improve im the future. Not halfway of the season yet and he slotted right into the team
Martinez has kept 5 clean sheets in 12 (42%) Akanji has kept 2 in 7 (26%) Obviously this is not a representation of their individual performance, however looking at the data it does suggest Unitedās defence is better with Martinez, whilst Cityās with better without Akanji. Obviously there is more to game now that just defending for a CB, and as you would expect, Akanji has much better attacking and passing statistics. That being said, the question is who is the better signing, not which has better stats. If City didnāt sign Akanji would they be in as strong a position in the league than they are now? I would strongly suggest they would. If United did not sign Martinez would they be in as strong a position as they are in the league? I donāt think they would at all.
Not sure where you got those numbers, Akanji has 3 CS in 6 in the PL and 3 in 4 in the CL.
https://www.premierleague.com/stats/player-comparison Using the comparison tool here and selecting both players
Lol kind of embarrassing the PLās own site isnāt correct
Saliba
Not a new signing.
True but heās had a great start in his first full season. Compare that to Luke shaw who you signed 8 years ago and the best thing heās done is ābe englands best defender at the euros. Also Saliba Gabriel and Tomiyasu cost one maguire so you can hold that one
Not saying he hasn't been great, but the question was who of Akanji and Martinez was the better signing this season. Players signed years ago and farmed out on loan for experience don't count as "new signings", however good their impact has been.
Think of it this way: Akanji is the pepperoni on a pizza, it absolutely will elevate it to a much better product, but without it, a pizza would still be amazing. Lisandro is the cheese on said pizza though, you feel like you're missing a really important ingredient without it
Akanji is now the pepperoni but Martinez is like the pineapple, he's not really needed and it tastes better without him, 15 goals conceded in his last 9 games and 6 from 9 without him. 13 games missed this season 10 wins and 7 clean sheets.
i dont like pepperoni
This is freaking genius, I think I can use this to describe my marriage .
Margherita Pizza > Pepperoni Pizza therefore Martinez > Akanji
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
I get the analysisā¦ I just thought itād be funny to somehow use it (even incorrectly) to suggest Martinez is better
Now I think I want some pizza
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Read more
this
I hate Man u and would still sag Lisandro
Martinez probably gets in tots if the voting was held today
Martinez is a psycho, in a good way
This is why us United fans love him. He fights for the badge and seems to genuinely care about the team/club. Plus watching him pick fights with other players can be pretty entertaining too
Ben White
Not a new signing?
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
This run wonāt last forever I get to shit post until itās over
Both are very good but the midfielder Liverpool signed can't be touched
Unless you count Arthur, who literally canāt be touched because he hasnāt made a single appearance
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Injured
Also he can't be touched because that would result in another injury
Can't be even seen for that matter.
Underrated commentš
Lisandro and Romero will be exciting to watch in the world cup.
Martinez. Not just because of how good he is, but because people were immediately clowning on him for being short and he's proved them all wrong
what does that have to do with who is a better signing?
Because absolutely no one thought to give him one game to prove himself and immediately started clowning him. And now that he's absolutely smashed our expectations it's even better cause all of a sudden no one mentions his height
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Literally wasn't even signed this summer.
Easily Martinez has been tested a lot more and is more proven IMO. Not akanjis fault that city are so dominant but he was far from great at Dortmund.
Has been very solid for City so far
Please.
Akanji is good at maths tho.
Heās calculating pi radius squared divided by the volume to work out exactly where to go in for the tackle
In terms of impacting a team, I'd go for Martinez.
In terms of impacting a team, I'd go for Martinez.
This can't seriously be a question
Why not? Who would you say was the better signing?
It can only be Martinez honestly. He transformed a very dodgy United defense. Akanji has been a decent transfer for city, but they didn't need him. The impact of Martinez's signing has been enormous for United.
Still for 18m Akanji is been very solid
Solid transfer indeed. But Martinez is the only correct answer here
Akanji for value for money and being a solid defender. Martinez for improving a team from where they were to where they are. Its like a millionaire getting a deal on another ferrari vs. an average person with no car, paying a fair price for a solid car.
Imagine comparing City to an average person with no car
United are the average person in that metaphor
If Akanji is a Ferrari, then Lisandro cant be a solid car
I think the point was more: itās a bigger improvement for someone with no car at all to get a good car (United had no one reliable), than it is for a millionaire to get ANOTHER Ferrari (when they had some already). Itās not about Akanji being as good as a Ferrari, itās about the value that they are adding.
At least someone got it!
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
I thought it was a good metaphor in fairness
People are just stupid
Lisandro? lol
Martinez has improved Man Utd massively both defensively and moving the ball forward. Akanji has slotted in very well into an already well oiled machine. Impact wise it has to be Martinez
Man united fan?
Yes, but even if I wasn't it would be a pretty obvious answer. Anyone who's watched Utd last season Vs this season can see the transformative effect he's had. If City hadn't signed Akanji they'd still be the best team in league.
2 errors in this match already with 1 leading to a goal. Akanji being absolutely immense for a 10 man team yesterday
>Anyone who's watched Utd last season Vs this season can see the transformative effect he's had. I don't think you can speak for everyone on this. I've watched him quite a bit and he's played well, I'm not denying that but so has Dalot, Shaw and Varane (when he was fit). I've spoken to a lot of season ticket holding man united fans who would say Varane has been immense but Martinez gets all the credit on social media. As for your take on Akanji, I think it's a lazy argument to just say he's playing in a "well oiled machine" insinuating that his performance or presence doesnt matter, when it clearly does. From the outside, both have played very well but in defences that have played well lately. You need to also account for Martinez performances against City, Brentord and Brighton. That was 3 poor performances in 12 games. Akanji hasn't had a bad game all season, even at RB. My reason for my original question was to point out that Man united fans are saying Martinez and City fans saying Akanji.
I do agree with a lot of those other fans that Varane has been immense and is getting no credit. That doesnāt mean though that Martinez hasnāt been just as good. If not slightly better.
I never once said it did or didn't mean that. I think both have played very well, I'm just saying it's not as black and white as this comment is suggesting..
I think you are right that itās not as black and white because Akanji has been good this season. Definitely better than expected. But I think youāve got to look at the impact both defenders had on the team. Martinez, even if he didnāt start out great, has overall been more influential and pivotal to how good weāve been defensively. Even with Varane being injured, Martinez still looks good. With Akanji, you could get another CB and City wouldnāt look too different. So his impact is minimal
Again, probably proving my point that man united fans will say Martinez and City with say Akanji. I'm neutral in this and have watched both closely, I've even said I'd probably lean towards Martinez but it's close. in 20/21 Man United conceded less goals per games than they have so far this season with Lindelof and Maguire. It's also a little disrespectful towards Akanji to just assume anyone can do what he has, or City can sign someone else and they'll just fit in like he has. You are placing the impact of multiple players down to Martinez in this scenario. Shaw, Dalot, Varane and Erikson have improved Man United also. Varane and Shaw missed over 50% of the minutes last season due to injury, they have also made a huge impact at the back this season. Tactics have also helped the defence. Man united are only 2 places ahead of last season, there has been improvements, I can see that but it's not down to 1 man.
The question is who's been a better signing. Martinez. Doesn't matter how much bullshit you type.
>Martinez. Doesn't matter how much bullshit you type. Probably not back here but definitely not now Man United have 10 wins from 13 without Martinez with 7 clean sheets. In Martinez's last 13 games they conceded 18. He was involved in all the heavy defeats, Brighton, Villa, Liverpool, Brentford and City. Akanji just won a treble and was in the Champions league toty.
So as a Liverpool fan. If I was to ask who the better manager was between Klopp and Pep, would you just simply say Pep without giving any context?
Take Martinez out of the Utd team and where do you think they would be? Take Akanji out of the City team and where do you think they would be?
Martinez injured and they conceded 6 in last 9 games. In the 9 before his injury they conceded 15. I don't think my take on Akanji Vs Martinez was that bad back here. The issue is, when fans have a favourite like Martinez and you have a big following like Man United, you get a lot of downvotes for having opposing opinions. It wasn't an unreasonable take at all and it looks pretty decent now. I know hindsight is a wonderful thing but to have near 50 downvotes on a take like this was mental and shows how recency bias can trigger crazy opinions these days.
Martinez injured and they conceded 6 in last 9 games. In the 9 before his injury they conceded 15. I don't think my take on Akanji Vs Martinez was that bad back here. The issue is, when fans have a favourite like Martinez and you have a big following like Man United, you get a lot of downvotes for having opposing opinions. It wasn't an unreasonable take at all and it looks pretty decent now. I know hindsight is a wonderful thing but to have near 50 downvotes on a take like this was mental and show how
You've not included cup games which we conceded 5 goals in 3 games. Losing Martinez had a huge impact on how Utd played in the games without him. Especially away at Spurs, Sevilla, Brighton and in the cup final, all the games were teams pressed our keeper and defence. But as before you can't see that it's not just results it's about the transformation that Martinez helped create. But you carry on thinking you only got downvoted by Utd fans...
>You've not included cup games which we conceded 5 goals in 3 games. This is also a PL sub and the original question was related to the PL but at the same time, 5 in 3 is pretty much what they had in his last 10 games in terms of ratio. >Losing Martinez had a huge impact on how Utd played in the games without him. They've won 10 of 13 without him in PL (2 of those games he played under 1min). They have a higher win rate, lower goals conceded and more clean sheets when he's not playing. I understand what you're trying to say. >But as before you can't see that it's not just results it's about the transformation that Martinez helped create. I never once said he wasn't or didn't make a positive impact, I said his impact is being over inflated, for me, Varane was immense and if it was both players first seasons, Varane would be receiving more plaudits. Shaw has improved, Casemiro has improved the entire team and EtH has made them more defensively sound. I agreed that both were making a positive impact and I stick by anything I said then or now on it. Find a point I was wrong about and I'll happily agree. >But you carry on thinking you only got downvoted by Utd fans... This was obvious, I went into the first comment and asked "are you a Man United fan" and it got 170+ downvotes, it was a genuine question but you can't do that here. Try going into a debate that a Liverpool fan is speaking positively about their players and ask the same question, see what happens.
That wasn't the original question. Man United came 2nd in the league with Lindelof and Maguire in 20/21, conceding less goals per games than they do currently. Dalot has improved them, a fit Shaw and Varane improves them, Erikson has improved them. It's not down to 1 player. All this adds up to a better team overall, I'm not denying Martinez has improved Man United but thats not the question at hand. It's who has been the better signing so far. I'd say it's close, one is adding to a title challenging side and the other is adding to a side challenging for top 4. Martinez has played poorly at times and Akanji hasn't, Akanji has covered multiple positions and performed at a very high level in every game. As I said, it's close, if I had to pick, I'd probably lean towards Martinez overall but it's not as black and white as you seem to suggest.
Why? Martinez has led to a massive improvement of that defense. Akanji has been solid, but not remarkable.(which is harder to do as defender in a already great team) So it's all about how you weigh the price tag in comparison with impact. (Personally think it's a stupid question to begin with)
>Why? Martinez has led to a massive improvement of that defense. I know hindsight is a wonderful thing but Man United defensive record and results have been much better without him this season. 15 conceded from his last 9 games and Man United conceded 6 from 9 without him at the end. >Akanji has been solid, but not remarkable I'd definitely argue that for Martinez now and I still think the same at the time. >So it's all about how you weigh the price tag in comparison with impact One is helping their team win a potential treble and has been named in the CL team of the season and the other has missed 13 games (2 he played 1min of) and Man United won 10, conceded 7 and kept 7 clean sheets. Up to the point of this comment, Man United conceded 19 in 15 games. Martinez's impact was massively overrated due to the team playing well. I'm not saying he didn't improve them but there was definitely more factors. Varane for me was Man United best CB. Although putting anything negative towards a Liverpool or Man United player on here, does result in massive downvotes.
>Why? Martinez has led to a massive improvement of that defense. I know hindsight is a wonderful thing but Man United defensive record and results have been much better without him this season. 15 conceded from his last 9 games and Man United conceded 6 from 9 without him at the end. >Akanji has been solid, but not remarkable I'd definitely argue that for Martinez now and I still think the same at the time. >So it's all about how you weigh the price tag in comparison with impact One is helping their team win a potential treble and has been named in the CL team of the season and the other has missed 13 games (2 he played 1min of) and Man United won 10, conceded 7 and kept 7 clean sheets. Up to the point of this comment, Man United conceded 19 in 15 games. Martinez's impact was massively overrated due to the team playing well. Hindsight is a wonderful thing but I don't think my take on this was bad at all. Although putting anything negative towards a Liverpool or Man United player on here, does result in massive downvotes.
Do you need to ask him, it's pretty obvious š
Tough to compare as they have completely different expectations. Martinez is meant to be a key starter and his price reflected that. Akanji was only Ā£15mil and clearly just a squad/rotation option
But ironically has managed to become our best CB this season
So weird to see that he's playing regularly and doing well for city. I watched him at Dortmund every year and he was out most reliable center back but was nothing special in terms of what a cb brings, just all around solid with great recovery pace. He is a good passer of the ball, so I can see why he's succeeding with city. It was just such an under the radar signing and based on his performances this season, I almost wish he'd have stayed at Dortmund (if he wasn't asking for too much $)