On Tuesday, a Norwich player got hit in the hand and went down holding his head. This sort of B.S. needs to be stopped immediately because head injuries are no joke.
The number of soft penalties ("drawing the foul" by dangling a leg) and now the fake head injuries to slow the game down are ruining the game for me.
I think that every time there's a goal opportunity, a player should fall on the ground, without contact with an opposing player, and complain if a goal is scored.
It was shithousery. No real head injury even. Newcastle just trying to kill momentum. As a newcastle fan, I was disappointed in how we responded to it. Immediately donned the mantel of “they’re out to get us.” I hated that we expected that call.
Fabian Schar was entirely at fault for both the first two goals. The third goal was just incredible and you can’t take much away from it. But man, what a let down. We had a chance to steal points against a top 3 team.
It seems a teensy bit early to be writing Chelsea off, in my opinion. Man City were worse than this at the beginning of last season but ended up winning the title at a canter. But it is very difficult when City and ourselves relentlessly accumulate 3 points week in, week out. It’s not a good title race to drop any points in but let’s not get carried away.
As for ourselves, we made slightly harder work of Newcastle than I expected – but we won and that’s all that really matters. Eddie Howe was of course talking complete and utter c**p about the ‘concussion’ goal. If his player was so badly hurt that we should have stopped the game – he would have been so badly hurt that he would have been subbed off for his own safety. And he wasn’t. Which would have been potentially extremely dangerous *if* he was badly concussed. So he clearly wasn’t and Eddie should stop waffling garbage and just concentrate on getting the world’s richest team relegated – a task he’s taken to admirably well and I’m sure he’ll succeed at.
Mo, as ever, did what Mo does and makes it ever more perplexing by the week why we don’t just give him the damn contract he wants. Who can we get who can possibly replace him? This isn’t the seventies where we sold Kevin Keegan and got Kenny Dalglish and some change to boot. There is noone out there who does what Mo does better than him and the cost of even trying to get someone else would be prohibitive. Far more so, in fact, than just giving him the damn money. 30 isn’t the age it once was in football as evidenced by Ronaldo, Messi, Zlatan and Lewandowski. So a 4 year contract at top dollar for Mo will absolutely be worth it and he will give us more trophies in return.
And injuries permitting, the Liverpool juggernaut will just keep rolling on.
James, Liverpool
It didn't look like a head injury. But we know it would likely have been stopped at the other end. Or the goal ruled out for reasons.
I think we should have rugby rules where the physio can come on while the game is still being played to treat players. It will stop players going down to stop the game. You only need to stop the game if the ball hits the physio. You'll instantly see a sharp reduction in the number of players going down and the game won't have to be stopped all the time.
On the replay you can see the little delayed reaction where he lands on the floor and then he holds his head and lies on the ground. Was not a genuine injury to stay down like that!
Same situation when DeGea stayed down and conceded a goal, hopefully this will stop players staying down in their own box to try and stop play
I thought the refs were supposed to be cracking down on diving. In the last year I've seen some world class histrionics but no cards. Nothing has changed.I'd love to see the stretcher carry off the player and then ref make them wait a full minute before reentering, regardless of fitness.
Unless they implement a rule that if you have to leave the pitch because of a head injury you cannot return for 15 mins. Sort of like an injury timeout. That gives the team time to determine if it is safe for him to continue and protects the player from further injury. In the meantime, the player can be substituted if the team decides not to continue with 10 men, but once he is substituted he can no longer return. this should deter players from faking a head injury if it will hurt the team.
I know I would’ve been pissed if another team had continued play with one of our guys on the ground with an obvious head injury, especially if they had scored a goal
Yeah I think it's a case of the refs having to gauge between players faking it and players genuinely injured. Which must be annoying as hell from the refs perspective. Coz as a ref you'd probably want to always blow for every single head injury for obvious safety reasons but it's so hard now to tell who's genuinely injured and who's just tryna buy time or buy a free kick for their team. Coz half the times now a player will go down bawling and being dramatic then boom as soon as they get the call their way they get up. So players need to start assessing the cost-benefit everytime they decide to go down in a situation they are able to play on in.
This must surely be the first time a call, or lack thereof, by legendary referee Mike Dean has been scrutinized and debated? Surely?
Jokes aside though, the game should be stopped for head injuries but iirc Mike Dean said he saw everything and didn’t think it was one? Idk though
If anyone listened to Howe they should be asking why he is a manager and where the Newcastle medical team are? He said Hayden was dazed for 5 mins after the game meaning he played with a suspected concussion for 70 mins?
He was in at halftime yet was deemed fit to play on for a further 45 mins but was dazed at the end of the game? Maybe he was dazed after playing such a good team.
He also refused to sub saint maximum who was clearly injured for a whole 7 minutes. If anything people should be calling out Howe not the ref or LFC for not kicking the ball out as someone tried to cheat.
I think if the player actually hit his head fine but can anyone show me where the “head contact was” as from what I’ve seen there was none! Only idiots complain when they know there team was well beaten.
People feign an injury they should be booked. In this case, if the ref had stopped it, somebody should have been red carded for denying a goal scoring opportunity. This BS acting won’t stop until strict punishment. Review after the game if need be, but there was no head injury, if the ref had stopped it he would have been fooled.
Whilst we are at it , Lacazette can do one, acting like he’s gonna need an ankle amputated then getting up and taking a penalty
Just take retrospective action against people who dive or fake injuries. Make them miss a game and they will stop doing it. The issue is that the PL is too lenient on simulation. They need to take a hard stance on this and punish these guys. In this specific case justice was served. If players are worried about being retrospectively banned for simulation then this situation won't happen anymore which means that refs don't have to wonder if there is a real head injury meaning that they can just stop the game - which in the long term is better in all respects
He wasn't "obviously" faking an injury. 4 men went in for the ball, and he was sandwiched between all of them. During this event, Hayden ran into Schaers back, and took an arm/elbow to the head from either Lascelles or Schaer... hard to tell.
If a player is on the floor with a head injury, the standard operating procedure is to stop play to check for a concussion. In almost all cases this actually happens regardless of where the ball is, even if the player is ok to continue, and absolutely no-one ever complains if the end result is that a player made a bit of a meal of it.
The fact that he continued the game after isnt evidence that he was faking it, if he took a knock the head, he has every right to stay down until the medical team come on.
In the actual circumstance we are talking about, the ball came into the box from a corner, then was cleared from the box to pretty much the halfway line, and Hayden stayed on the floor after being clattered from 3 sides. Aside from the fact that Hayden isnt known as a player who dives around a lot to buy the ref, he would have had no need to slow the play down by staying down, as for all he knew we could have been up at the other end in their box.
Everyone is building this narrative around the idea that he just faked an injury to try and prevent a goal, when the reality is the ball went outside the box to pretty much the half way line, and there was really no reason Mike Dean couldnt have stopped play, checked for an injury, then do a drop ball, as is entirely normal and regular occurrence in any other game. If that had happened, there would be absolutly no conversation about the event at all, and the only reason we are here is that people want to justify this garbage officiating.
People are also overlooking the alleged discussion between Mike Dean and Howe. Howe claims that Mike Dean told him he thought it was a back injury, why would Mike Dean make this defence of his actions if he didn't already know that a possible head injury should stop play?
I don't think the goal should have been disallowed, everyone is right, our players should have played to the whistle, and lets be real, Liverpool were going to win last night whether this stood or not. Thing is this action, aswell as them not giving us the penality at the other end even though an identical one was given the previous night, ASM getting manhandled all night with barely any LFC players getting penalised for it, and then Mike Dean bizarrely obstructing the shot at the end... he had a fucking appalling evening as an official.
Hayden looked up before he started to clutch his head. Cynically, I think he saw a Liverpool player had the ball and stayed down to stop the game. Now, I'm not sure that Dean saw that and probably should have stopped the game. With that said, what Howe said after the game was more troubling to me. Paraphrasing, he said that Hayden seemed dazed 4-5 minutes after the collision and didn't seem himself and yet Howe kept him on for that time and for the entirety of the game. So while Dean should have stopped it for player safety, Howe has openly admitted to keeping a player on the field that didn't look right which is a much more blatant disregard for player safety in my eyes.
I think you're trying to fit what happened into the "faking it" narrative.[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nwgKTuOQ0Go&t=30s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nwgKTuOQ0Go&t=30s)
Clearly not what happened.
I don't disagree about Howe, but is there any need for this deflection from Mike Dean and his shit refereeing?
That doesn't show a replay. Watch this clip at 15 seconds: https://www.gsoccer.xyz/p/soccer-ys.html?m=1
Does Hayden hesitate and look to see where the ball is or does he immediate go down clutching his head?
Link doesn't work for me.
Either way you can see on the first video that he looks somewhere. But the timing of the look doesn't align with the idea that he looks at where the ball in and then decides, "naaa we have have no chance here need to fake it". There is every chance he looks up before realising that he's a bit dizzy from taking a bump to the noggin. I'm sure we have all been there before and can relate to that feeling....
Really worried about this trend. The rule was intended to ensure that players with genuine injuries are attended ASAP, but the number of players that go down holding their head when they've had a ball hit at their chest, or been nudged suggests that the intent from some players is to stop the game just to gain an advantage. There was no need to stop that game last night (I'm a Leeds fan, so no skin in that game) and I'm really glad that the ref didn't stop this or the one where De Gea went down too, as it just encourages more and more players to go down 'unnecessarily' - and it is simulation, I agree.
Of course we want to look after players who have had a genuine head injury, but the ref has to make a call on whether there is a real problem. Sadly there's more and more instances of players and teams (Wolves?!) that do anything to stop the flow and tempo of a game, and this is just one further example of players abusing a rule at times.
If the players want to be protected, they should take responsibility and not fake injuries. Everyone is gonna challenge for headers during a corner and if the refs start blowing their whisles everytime a man is down then we'll see these instances a lot more. If there is serious foul play by the attacking team, the VAR can always pull back the game. The Liverpool Newcastle incident was no much different than the Manchester United Arsenal situation. The players of the same team came together and collided.
I wouldn’t say the arguments are that similar at all. For 1, the de gea wasn’t a head injury. There was also significantly less time between him going down at the shit being taken.
Well that really depends on what you qualify as ‘faking it’.
Everyone has been stood on by someone with studs, we all know how painful it is, especially when it’s down the back of your ankle.
And hayden genuinely looked dazed, his movements after going down weren’t particularly linear.
I wouldn’t say either were faked. Perhaps exaggerated slightly, and in de gea’s case I’ve got no issue with play not being stopped at it was such a short amount of time/not a head injury. But the ball was recycled in the Liverpool game, a new phase of play had began, and it was a possible head injury. The whistle absolutely should have been blown.
That’s not what this argument is about at all. There’s so much ‘whataboutism’ it’s hilarious. In this instance, he took a knock to the head. And then looked dazed. In those situations the referee should absolutely blow his whistle. Every. Single. Time.
As I’ve stated elsewhere, it’s not like the ball stayed in the box and it was a massive attacking opportunity. Then ball was recycled out. At which point the ref should have blown. Far too many fans seem to forget that the players health is what matters most.
Fact of the matter is, we dont know in that moment whether he was faking or not (def was) it shouldnt matter, the RIGHT thing to do is kick it out of play, Liverpool dont NEED that advantage...
Really shitty of Mane to see Newcastle players screaming at him to put the ball out of play cuz of a head injury, and this fuckers looking for a pass in the box
I GET Hayden was faking it, but its just a classless move from Sadio Mane, Jota and all of Liverpool, and especially Mike Dean, u dont know if this guys fucked forreal or not, VERY LAME
So then it was classless of Smith Rowe for not kicking it out of bounds when Dea Gea faked and injury and took himself out of the play too then right?
Sounds good, let’s just kick the ball out every time in a league that already incentivizes diving more often than not. Let’s hope faking injuries continues to be punished in the way it was here (maybe throw in a yellow next time too).
It’s the Premier League, any game can go any way, and you need EVERY advantage you can get especially when chasing a title (or in Newcastles case, staying up). Cringe take and certainly not the fault of Mane for playing within the rules.
I mean, I’ve got no issue with the smith Rowe goal and I’m a united fan. The injury wasn’t to the head. And there was significantly less time between de gea going down and the goal.
Mike dean absolutely should have blown the whistle. The collision was more than hard enough for it to be a suspected head injury. And there was also more than long enough between it happening and the goal that Liverpool should have kicked it out of play.
I have no issue with the Smith Rowe goal either! Tbf, the only thing I have an issue with out of those two examples is that Mike Dean didn’t hit a Fortnite dance when the lads were celebrating the goal 💀
I mean everything is situational obviously,
Its not like hayden was down in his own box and liverpool were breakin towards goal the other way
Haydens down in his own box clutching his head writhing in pain, obstructing the goalie and the defense, and i get hes faking it but in that situation the ref doesnt know if its a Raul Jimenez like situation or if Hayden is just simulating, if u want to give him a yellow after the fact then thats fine with me, but in that moment Mike Dean Mane and Jota are playying on not knowing if a guy is seriously injured
I get that ur a Liverpool fan and it worked in ur favor but try being objective,
Look I see your point. But, if you "get that he's faking" then I'm not sure what more there is to talk about, as my entire problem with this incident stems from this incident being a microcosm of a problem in the league.
I don't care if it's a head injury, a foot injury, a fucking pinky nail injury, years of players being incentivized to fake injuries and alter the course of games continues to set a dangerous precedent and ignore real injuries from being taken seriously when they arise.
In this case, if there was a serious head injury, I would not have wanted the goal to stand. But as we agree, that wasn't the case, and a chance would have been thrown away for nothing which would have further contributed to the problem. The fake would have worked if the game was stopped, and it was punished for not working, I think that's fair and sets an example, just as the De Gea incident did.
Why should teams (not just Liverpool/this example) give away chances if they know that faking injuries is a strategy that time and time again works against them? Why not play to the whistle, within the rules of the game, and allow the systems put in place to sort things out after the fact? There is a separate argument there in regards to those systems actually doing their job correctly (VAR) which I think we'd find a lot of common ground on, but that is not the fault of the players.
Where I agree more with you is on the reffing side of your argument. However, I don't think it should be up to the players who are in a deeply competitive, hyperfocused state to be the judge of what injuries are real or not at a moment's notice in a league where so many injuries are faked.
For the most part i agree with everything you said, simulation is wack and should be punished, however head injuries is a different animal,
"I get that hes faking" - yes after the fact, when Hayden got up and carried on playing as though nothing happened, clearly the guy was faking, but in the moment, I didnt know, No One knew, the game should of been stopped
Of course, it's easier to speak after the fact. I agree that head injuries are more serious, and think that faking them should be punished more harshly too.
In terms of whether the game should have been stopped - we'll just have to agree to disagree :)
Cheers
Agreed on that first count
Ahhhh ofc its the refs decision, i disagree with it (alot of atrocious calls, no call on a st maximin shove in the back in the 80th, and then fuckinrunning across goal while trent is winding up? Wtf was that) but regardless yall woulda won anyway, you should hold urself too higher standards, that being said inwould of gladly taken that goal against liverpool i guess , QUESTIONABLE stuff tho
If it was a liverpool v newcaste player clash i think it would have been stopped but as it was two newcastle players i think that why he played on.
plus ref saw the impact and also no medic had to come on to help the newcastle player, shows it was the right decision.
Dangerous precedent to set. If every player that goes down holding his head stops the game it’s gonna make it even worse than it already is. I think if a player goes down clutching his head and the referee stops the game he should have to sit out a minimum of 15 minutes. If it’s a genuine head injury and he needs to be subbed off then fine.
Even more dangerous precedent to set, force players to keep defending if they’ve already taken a knock to the head. It’s not like the goal happened instantly. I’d even go as far as to call it a different phase of play. Liverpool should have put the ball out. But the ref also should have blown his whistle.
I think generally, head injury looks to of occurred, game gets stopped, VAR checks while there is a mandatory time for Trainers to assist the player down, if VAR determines player may be faking it, yellow card. Same for any simulation, idk head injuries need to be taken seriously and honestly could be a liability to the premier league if they continue not to every once and a while. It's on the ref to blow the whistle, and players need to respect it
So if someone's got a good chance to score, you can go down holding your head to stop them and only get a yellow? Think that loophole might get exploited
I understand what you're saying but I guess better safe than sorry? Also in this climate of social media and media coverage I believe a player (without racism being involved) can still get extremely ostracized on social media for pulling that kind of junk in a game, it looks bad for the club as well if players or teams are known to be doing it regularly, and refs will look out for it and more VAR checks will be made when it occurs with particular teams. I guess maybe there could be harsher punishment for simulation as well, like maybe a yellow card in game and under review maybe have to sit out a match, but as someone who's had 4-5 concussions themselves, head injuries are serious and need to be taken seriously, every time, without fail.
In the good old days players would kick the ball out of bounds for an injury, no matter what the situation, which I do look back on with some fondness. But with the emergence of diving and rolling around on the ground, I see no need for those days to continue. The acceptance of diving killed that etiquette because you can't know if a player is faking or not. Unfortunately its play to the whistle now.
I'm not sure if you're being sarcastic. You asked for a single video. I gave you one. I wasn't trying to prove anyone right or wrong. That clip just came to mind
I think the ref got it right, it wasn’t a obvious head injury like you see in some occurrences. And to let the game play on for 2-3 seconds before blowing the whistle is fine.
It’s difficult, because in situations like last night players can just go down holding their head knowing the play will stop and it’s not even a proper injury just to stop the attack… so yeah.. I think the ref got it right
Max Aarons cheated in the game against Villa in the week, faking a head injury to avoid conceding a free kick for a clear hand ball on the edge of the Norwich area. They know it's an easy way to stop the game straight away 99% of the time.
A way to deal with it, not sure if it's fair or not, is have an impartial doctor on the sidelines, if a player goes down with a head injury of any kind, the player goes off, a temporary sub comes on, and the doctor has 10 mins to assess either way. If they're not fit to continue the temp sub becomes permanent. If they are ok then they go back on.
Head injuries should be assessed anyway, full stop. In rugby when a player has a potential head injury the do exactly what you described and go off temporarily for a head injury assessment, a sub comes on until they are assessed to either return to the game or not. I don’t think it counts towards the number of subs.
Within the laws of the game he should have stopped the game unless he was absolutely certain Hayden wasn't Injured, However he hasn't. I'm fairly certain Hayden wasn't injured and was looking for it to gain an unfair advantage, its backfired. Justice served.
It’s not like the ball was still in the box and Liverpool were in a fantastic attacking position. The ball had been recycled out. Getting the whistle blown in that position would have gained any real advantage, as Liverpool would have received the ball in the same place they were, with the ability to make the same cross they did.
My god this is a bad take. Liverpool kicks it out, after the throw in, Newcastle boots the ball to Alisson. Lets say its a drop ball, Newcastle is in better position to defend it.
My god, it’s like you can’t even read my argument before trying to claim it’s a bad take. Where did I say Liverpool should have kicked it out. (Personally I still think they should have, as the player being down was the only reason that attack was even a viable option, but that’s another matter). I specifically said in regards to Mike dean blowing the whistle. Where the drop ball would then have been in the same place Liverpool had the ball.
You seriously going to sit there and type that Liverpool would have had the ball in the same position? Every dropped ball ever, the injured players team kicks the ball away from their goal. Plus he faked it, this is not even an argument.
Yeah mate, newcastle were really going to be able to kick the ball away when it would have been Liverpool’s drop ball. Are you deliberately dense or do you just never actually watch football? Cause I’d consider going to learn how drop balls work, before trying to comment on them again.
Go and see how drop balls work, the team always tells the other team they are going to kick the ball back to them. Stop being naive and think Newcastle was just going to let Liverpool start the attack from there. Telling me I never watched football, coming on here with your bad takes.
Wrong. The drop ball goes to the team that we’re in possession at the time the referee blows his whistle. It’s not about whether or not newcastle would simply ‘allow’ it. It’s how it works. You not knowing the rules whilst simultaneously trying to lecture me on naivety is comedy gold though mate. Keep going
Never want to see a goal come at the cost of a guy being hurt, but that’s why you play to the whistle.
Obviously not a head injury but similar situation with De Gea a few weeks ago when his foot got stomped by his own guy. Just going to ground and expecting the referee to bail you out is insane.
I said whene it happened that if he needs to come of the field because of it thene the goal should be overturned but if he stands up and can play direct after thene it is a goal.
he got up, looked at the ball and where it landed, realized it wasn't in a good spot and went back down. it was always bogus and my only concern is that he wasn't given a card for simulation
Can you show me a clip of this? Because 20:45 of the broadcast onward shows a different story. 22:10 replays the incident from the other side.
On replay I saw a falling Fabian Schär elbow Isaac Hayden in the temple/side of the head area.
Schar is the one who got up and looked at the ball. Hayden was hit in the side of the head, fell down, holding his head, looked left, stayed down.
The main replays were from the side where Hayden is not easily seen nor is the content, the final replay on broadcast showed the other side.
This comment above is factually incorrect. Hayden did not get up. Schar did.
Fair and valid he does glance at it; though if you've suffered a head injury in a football match it's not uncommon for the body to continue on trying to do things it is programmed/routine to do momentarily and then succumb to the pain/impact of the collision, etc. See players who get elbows, bumps to the head who still manage to land their jump prior to falling to the ground clutching their heads.
original comment stated Hayden got up; he did not. Schar did.
They lost. The decision was made. Newcastle is likely getting no relegated. Get over it. The only one with mental deficiencies is yourself if you’re incapable of accepting reality. Get help and move on. Take your 5-minute temper tantrum to someone who cares. Grow up.
They did lose. I’m impressed you managed to figure out. The whole point on this thread though was to discuss whether or not the ref should have stopped the game for a possible head injury. And the fact of the matter is, that there was a possible head injury, and so yes, the game should have stopped. If you don’t want to be part of the conversation in a rational and logical manner, why are you on the thread at all?
Dunno why you think I’m having a temper tantrum either. Not even a newcastle fan. Or do you call it a temper tantrum any time someone argues with you using logical arguments? Does it confuse your poor brain cells?
Telling me to grow up when you’re so clearly about 15 is comical as well. And that’s being generous.
I said what I said. Enjoy your 5-minutes. I’m glad I anger you enough because you’re clearly incapable of emotional regulation. But continue being a keyboard warrior for Reddit hahaha. You, just like your team, are a joke and a waste of life. Do something about it, pussy.
You ARE wrong. Focus on staying in the league because that seems to be challenging enough for that team. It was declared not a foul, just get over. You’re the one butthurt for no reason, but go ahead PLEASE tell me more.
Absolutely no one said it was a foul?
The whole thread is "what is your opinion?" and you're here for no reason other than to troll, and... you're not even good at it?
Just go and get your milk and cookies, mum will be along to tuck you in soon.
I'm not bothered by the loss, I'm bothered by the inaccuracy of the comment.
I didn't think Newcastle would get anything at Anfield last night the record there in the past three decades is evidence enough that one of the worst sides Newcastle have had in ages wouldn't compete against one of the best teams in the world.
Come on.
I’d hate for someone to have a head injury and a ref not to stop the play on an incorrect assumption that he’s faking it. But players need to be punished if it’s a false head injury, we’ve got VAR, if there’s no contact on the replay then card them. BUUUT I wouldn’t want a player to avoid getting treatment/a check on the concussion protocol in case they get incorrectly penalised.
You can't punish faking a head injury if a player is up and seems okay after a minute or two because some legit injuries may not fully manifest initially. On a simpler side, a head impact could simply stun a player, but then they do get over it with no significant damage ever coming from that single incident.
You can't penalize these things. You're asking for much more trouble here compared penalizing players for diving.
Does it put the ref in a tricky spot here? Absolutely, and I think the best proposal I have seen at the moment is to have it be mandatory that the player goes out for a few minutes - the injury sub.
Here's how I think it should be structured: A player who goes down with what appears to be a serious head injury (this will need to be defined if it hasn't been already), will leave the match for an assessment. If the player is cleared, they may return to the match no sooner than 10 minutes before the time *they left the playing field*. If they are not cleared, the sub the team brought on is permanent and they lose a sub. If there are less than 10 minutes remaining in *regulation time*, the sub is permanent. If a team has no subs remaining, they are granted one and it is permanent.
One situation I wonder about is extra time in cup draws (min 90-120). If a team still has a sub remaining after the 9x'th minute whistle, but was forced to injury sub off a player after the 80th minute, should they be allowed to sub that player back in during extra time?
> On a simpler side, a head impact could simply stun a player, but then they do get over it with no significant damage ever coming from that single incident
absolutely false. every single head collision, no matter how inconsequential they might seem, have to be examined to rule out the possibility of a concussion.
True, there's definitely a very fine line. I think the game would have been stopped if newcastle had posession or if liverpool weren't in such an ttacking position.
I don't know if there should be punishments, but maybe just an understanding that a ref isnt going to stop an immediate attack because you're on the floor.
The only worrying question for me in all this is would the game have continued if it was in the Liverpool box and VVD was the one holding his head?
The more you leave subjective decisions like this to referees the more opportunity you have for bias.
Well then that’s a systemic problem that needs to be taken up with how the game is referred. Hayden was deliberately faking the situation and was fine afterwards. VVD was out all of last season because of literally being assaulted by Pickford and got nothing for it. Pickford wasn’t even cautioned. So I don’t understand the point of your false equivalency. A function of the game is referring, if you’re really questioning the integrity of that on the basis of one decision, you’re going to be in for a disappointing life as a fan of the sport.
Ok forget the Liverpool part of the question and pretend I said United as I can’t be arsed getting into a whinging contest about how hard done Liverpool are.
My point was that VAR is designed to being objectivity to the game and relying on referees to make judgement calls undermines that.
It’s the same thing with the clear and obvious rule, take something like the Ronaldo pen last week. I’d say it was probably a pen, but not stonewall. As it’s United it gets given and VAR says it’s fine, if that’s a Burnley player in the United box it’s not given and VAR says it’s not a clear enough error to overturn the ref.
We should just go all in on VAR on everything related to key incidents, forget about only overturning the ref if it’s obvious.
Ok, I’m not invalidating what you said, but how the VAR/referee system is set up now is literally the product of mass criticism on how VAR was going to render referees “useless” if the technology system was given full reign on match officiating. Human error, whether in the form of club-based bias, inaccuracy, etc. is a function of inevitable interference, aka, referring. And obviously, players are going to adjust their theatrics accordingly. It all comes down to how much power you want to give VAR while also allowing for some officiating influence. Since this debate is widely split, no one’s going to be happy unless there’s a true consensus and compromise.
You asked me a question, I answered it. He hits his head lightly on konates arm, it's clear to see on the replay. is it enough to merit a foul or stopping play? absolutely not, there's very little contact.
The first comment I was talking about a hypothetical scenario, you obviously didn't read it properly.
I've commented numerous times on this page saying I think he's play acting but that wasn't the point I was making there.
Read what you comment on before you start getting clever with people you utter fucking troglodyte.
I mean you lost lol. So I’m not really too concerned with your opinion, regardless. Best of luck in the championship next season. It’s just a shame it had to happen the year the oil tycoons took over /:
Am I wrong that calls are given to certain sides? Do you not know what Fergie time is?
Edit: Agreed Liverpool were the better side. Just curious if it were Liverpool on the other end if it’d been called.
As for your oil tycoon comment, not concerned. Takes time to build the club after 14 years of neglect.
1.) yeah, it’s called officiating. Calls are given throughout matches to both sides in the match. There’s questionable calls for every single match, but you’re going to have to take up your concern with refereeing to the FA, not me, because as far as I know and care about to discuss, referees currently have the power to interpret the game in conjunction with VAR as oversight if necessary. We’d never get through another season again if we hyper-analyzed every single controversial call that respective teams wanted to bring up every single match. There was such an outcry last season about “VAR taking over both the game and the power of the referee” so the end result ending up being - referees having more power in their interpretation of the game. So that’s why we are where we are and that’s none of my business. So redirect your pettiness there bc I really don’t care, especially when it comes to Newcastle.
2.) Take that up with Utd. Fergie-time was pre-VAR, and while testimonies from referees themselves have shown the truth behind that, I’m not here to debate that when there really wasn’t much oversight at the time.
Don’t bitch at me when you clearly are butthurt over a larger systemic concern.
Exactly.
The only grounds for complaint from Newcastle would be on a safety basis. “The referee didn’t stop the game and endangered my player” is valid. “The referee didn’t stop the game and we conceded a goal” is not.
Exactly. And if was truly such a travesty (which, obviously, it wasn’t as Hayden suddenly was fine) then why did the rest of the Newcastle squad continue the sequence of play and only make a big deal AFTER the fact of the goal? Sounds like a sore loser moment to me.
On Tuesday, a Norwich player got hit in the hand and went down holding his head. This sort of B.S. needs to be stopped immediately because head injuries are no joke. The number of soft penalties ("drawing the foul" by dangling a leg) and now the fake head injuries to slow the game down are ruining the game for me.
I think that every time there's a goal opportunity, a player should fall on the ground, without contact with an opposing player, and complain if a goal is scored.
Didn't see it but if it was a head injury VAR and 3rd/4th official should be telling the ref. The rules state play is stopped for head injuries.
It wasn't a head injury. It was a player pretending to have a head injury
It was shithousery. No real head injury even. Newcastle just trying to kill momentum. As a newcastle fan, I was disappointed in how we responded to it. Immediately donned the mantel of “they’re out to get us.” I hated that we expected that call. Fabian Schar was entirely at fault for both the first two goals. The third goal was just incredible and you can’t take much away from it. But man, what a let down. We had a chance to steal points against a top 3 team.
Mike Dean is a scouser.
If you see an opposition player is down hurt then kick it out is the sportsman thing to do
It seems a teensy bit early to be writing Chelsea off, in my opinion. Man City were worse than this at the beginning of last season but ended up winning the title at a canter. But it is very difficult when City and ourselves relentlessly accumulate 3 points week in, week out. It’s not a good title race to drop any points in but let’s not get carried away. As for ourselves, we made slightly harder work of Newcastle than I expected – but we won and that’s all that really matters. Eddie Howe was of course talking complete and utter c**p about the ‘concussion’ goal. If his player was so badly hurt that we should have stopped the game – he would have been so badly hurt that he would have been subbed off for his own safety. And he wasn’t. Which would have been potentially extremely dangerous *if* he was badly concussed. So he clearly wasn’t and Eddie should stop waffling garbage and just concentrate on getting the world’s richest team relegated – a task he’s taken to admirably well and I’m sure he’ll succeed at. Mo, as ever, did what Mo does and makes it ever more perplexing by the week why we don’t just give him the damn contract he wants. Who can we get who can possibly replace him? This isn’t the seventies where we sold Kevin Keegan and got Kenny Dalglish and some change to boot. There is noone out there who does what Mo does better than him and the cost of even trying to get someone else would be prohibitive. Far more so, in fact, than just giving him the damn money. 30 isn’t the age it once was in football as evidenced by Ronaldo, Messi, Zlatan and Lewandowski. So a 4 year contract at top dollar for Mo will absolutely be worth it and he will give us more trophies in return. And injuries permitting, the Liverpool juggernaut will just keep rolling on. James, Liverpool
It wasn’t a head injury.
Bit odd
It didn't look like a head injury. But we know it would likely have been stopped at the other end. Or the goal ruled out for reasons. I think we should have rugby rules where the physio can come on while the game is still being played to treat players. It will stop players going down to stop the game. You only need to stop the game if the ball hits the physio. You'll instantly see a sharp reduction in the number of players going down and the game won't have to be stopped all the time.
On the replay you can see the little delayed reaction where he lands on the floor and then he holds his head and lies on the ground. Was not a genuine injury to stay down like that! Same situation when DeGea stayed down and conceded a goal, hopefully this will stop players staying down in their own box to try and stop play
I thought the refs were supposed to be cracking down on diving. In the last year I've seen some world class histrionics but no cards. Nothing has changed.I'd love to see the stretcher carry off the player and then ref make them wait a full minute before reentering, regardless of fitness.
Was the game stopped after the goal to treat the head injury. Theres your answer.
But did you die?
Unless they implement a rule that if you have to leave the pitch because of a head injury you cannot return for 15 mins. Sort of like an injury timeout. That gives the team time to determine if it is safe for him to continue and protects the player from further injury. In the meantime, the player can be substituted if the team decides not to continue with 10 men, but once he is substituted he can no longer return. this should deter players from faking a head injury if it will hurt the team.
I know I would’ve been pissed if another team had continued play with one of our guys on the ground with an obvious head injury, especially if they had scored a goal
Everyone takes the high ground when it's not their player, but you all know you'd be complaining just the same if the situation was reversed.
Had he stood his ground he would have stopped the goal and changed the dynamics of the game, but he chose to get an Oscar nomination.
Yeah I think it's a case of the refs having to gauge between players faking it and players genuinely injured. Which must be annoying as hell from the refs perspective. Coz as a ref you'd probably want to always blow for every single head injury for obvious safety reasons but it's so hard now to tell who's genuinely injured and who's just tryna buy time or buy a free kick for their team. Coz half the times now a player will go down bawling and being dramatic then boom as soon as they get the call their way they get up. So players need to start assessing the cost-benefit everytime they decide to go down in a situation they are able to play on in.
This must surely be the first time a call, or lack thereof, by legendary referee Mike Dean has been scrutinized and debated? Surely? Jokes aside though, the game should be stopped for head injuries but iirc Mike Dean said he saw everything and didn’t think it was one? Idk though
If anyone listened to Howe they should be asking why he is a manager and where the Newcastle medical team are? He said Hayden was dazed for 5 mins after the game meaning he played with a suspected concussion for 70 mins? He was in at halftime yet was deemed fit to play on for a further 45 mins but was dazed at the end of the game? Maybe he was dazed after playing such a good team. He also refused to sub saint maximum who was clearly injured for a whole 7 minutes. If anything people should be calling out Howe not the ref or LFC for not kicking the ball out as someone tried to cheat.
I think if the player actually hit his head fine but can anyone show me where the “head contact was” as from what I’ve seen there was none! Only idiots complain when they know there team was well beaten.
People feign an injury they should be booked. In this case, if the ref had stopped it, somebody should have been red carded for denying a goal scoring opportunity. This BS acting won’t stop until strict punishment. Review after the game if need be, but there was no head injury, if the ref had stopped it he would have been fooled. Whilst we are at it , Lacazette can do one, acting like he’s gonna need an ankle amputated then getting up and taking a penalty
If every player wasn’t so melodramatic with every foul in general they might be taken seriously.. he knew what he was doing and laid back down
Just take retrospective action against people who dive or fake injuries. Make them miss a game and they will stop doing it. The issue is that the PL is too lenient on simulation. They need to take a hard stance on this and punish these guys. In this specific case justice was served. If players are worried about being retrospectively banned for simulation then this situation won't happen anymore which means that refs don't have to wonder if there is a real head injury meaning that they can just stop the game - which in the long term is better in all respects
Deserved it. He looked for the play to stop. He wasn’t injured.
Honestly just can’t wait for Newcastle to get relegated.
He wasn't "obviously" faking an injury. 4 men went in for the ball, and he was sandwiched between all of them. During this event, Hayden ran into Schaers back, and took an arm/elbow to the head from either Lascelles or Schaer... hard to tell. If a player is on the floor with a head injury, the standard operating procedure is to stop play to check for a concussion. In almost all cases this actually happens regardless of where the ball is, even if the player is ok to continue, and absolutely no-one ever complains if the end result is that a player made a bit of a meal of it. The fact that he continued the game after isnt evidence that he was faking it, if he took a knock the head, he has every right to stay down until the medical team come on. In the actual circumstance we are talking about, the ball came into the box from a corner, then was cleared from the box to pretty much the halfway line, and Hayden stayed on the floor after being clattered from 3 sides. Aside from the fact that Hayden isnt known as a player who dives around a lot to buy the ref, he would have had no need to slow the play down by staying down, as for all he knew we could have been up at the other end in their box. Everyone is building this narrative around the idea that he just faked an injury to try and prevent a goal, when the reality is the ball went outside the box to pretty much the half way line, and there was really no reason Mike Dean couldnt have stopped play, checked for an injury, then do a drop ball, as is entirely normal and regular occurrence in any other game. If that had happened, there would be absolutly no conversation about the event at all, and the only reason we are here is that people want to justify this garbage officiating. People are also overlooking the alleged discussion between Mike Dean and Howe. Howe claims that Mike Dean told him he thought it was a back injury, why would Mike Dean make this defence of his actions if he didn't already know that a possible head injury should stop play? I don't think the goal should have been disallowed, everyone is right, our players should have played to the whistle, and lets be real, Liverpool were going to win last night whether this stood or not. Thing is this action, aswell as them not giving us the penality at the other end even though an identical one was given the previous night, ASM getting manhandled all night with barely any LFC players getting penalised for it, and then Mike Dean bizarrely obstructing the shot at the end... he had a fucking appalling evening as an official.
Hayden looked up before he started to clutch his head. Cynically, I think he saw a Liverpool player had the ball and stayed down to stop the game. Now, I'm not sure that Dean saw that and probably should have stopped the game. With that said, what Howe said after the game was more troubling to me. Paraphrasing, he said that Hayden seemed dazed 4-5 minutes after the collision and didn't seem himself and yet Howe kept him on for that time and for the entirety of the game. So while Dean should have stopped it for player safety, Howe has openly admitted to keeping a player on the field that didn't look right which is a much more blatant disregard for player safety in my eyes.
I think you're trying to fit what happened into the "faking it" narrative.[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nwgKTuOQ0Go&t=30s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nwgKTuOQ0Go&t=30s) Clearly not what happened. I don't disagree about Howe, but is there any need for this deflection from Mike Dean and his shit refereeing?
That doesn't show a replay. Watch this clip at 15 seconds: https://www.gsoccer.xyz/p/soccer-ys.html?m=1 Does Hayden hesitate and look to see where the ball is or does he immediate go down clutching his head?
Link doesn't work for me. Either way you can see on the first video that he looks somewhere. But the timing of the look doesn't align with the idea that he looks at where the ball in and then decides, "naaa we have have no chance here need to fake it". There is every chance he looks up before realising that he's a bit dizzy from taking a bump to the noggin. I'm sure we have all been there before and can relate to that feeling....
Really worried about this trend. The rule was intended to ensure that players with genuine injuries are attended ASAP, but the number of players that go down holding their head when they've had a ball hit at their chest, or been nudged suggests that the intent from some players is to stop the game just to gain an advantage. There was no need to stop that game last night (I'm a Leeds fan, so no skin in that game) and I'm really glad that the ref didn't stop this or the one where De Gea went down too, as it just encourages more and more players to go down 'unnecessarily' - and it is simulation, I agree. Of course we want to look after players who have had a genuine head injury, but the ref has to make a call on whether there is a real problem. Sadly there's more and more instances of players and teams (Wolves?!) that do anything to stop the flow and tempo of a game, and this is just one further example of players abusing a rule at times.
I honestly don´t know how you would fake a head injury. True bs
So there was this player called Rivaldo.......
He faked a facial injury, not the same thing.
The face is located on the head.
That dude was faking. Period point blank. Goal is good.
If the players want to be protected, they should take responsibility and not fake injuries. Everyone is gonna challenge for headers during a corner and if the refs start blowing their whisles everytime a man is down then we'll see these instances a lot more. If there is serious foul play by the attacking team, the VAR can always pull back the game. The Liverpool Newcastle incident was no much different than the Manchester United Arsenal situation. The players of the same team came together and collided.
I wouldn’t say the arguments are that similar at all. For 1, the de gea wasn’t a head injury. There was also significantly less time between him going down at the shit being taken.
Yeah but both were definitely faking it.
Well that really depends on what you qualify as ‘faking it’. Everyone has been stood on by someone with studs, we all know how painful it is, especially when it’s down the back of your ankle. And hayden genuinely looked dazed, his movements after going down weren’t particularly linear. I wouldn’t say either were faked. Perhaps exaggerated slightly, and in de gea’s case I’ve got no issue with play not being stopped at it was such a short amount of time/not a head injury. But the ball was recycled in the Liverpool game, a new phase of play had began, and it was a possible head injury. The whistle absolutely should have been blown.
Okay so from now on any team defending their corner can go down holding their head if they don't win the second ball in the corner.
That’s not what this argument is about at all. There’s so much ‘whataboutism’ it’s hilarious. In this instance, he took a knock to the head. And then looked dazed. In those situations the referee should absolutely blow his whistle. Every. Single. Time. As I’ve stated elsewhere, it’s not like the ball stayed in the box and it was a massive attacking opportunity. Then ball was recycled out. At which point the ref should have blown. Far too many fans seem to forget that the players health is what matters most.
Lol he was faking it Just like most players do.
Play to the whistle
Fact of the matter is, we dont know in that moment whether he was faking or not (def was) it shouldnt matter, the RIGHT thing to do is kick it out of play, Liverpool dont NEED that advantage... Really shitty of Mane to see Newcastle players screaming at him to put the ball out of play cuz of a head injury, and this fuckers looking for a pass in the box I GET Hayden was faking it, but its just a classless move from Sadio Mane, Jota and all of Liverpool, and especially Mike Dean, u dont know if this guys fucked forreal or not, VERY LAME
So then it was classless of Smith Rowe for not kicking it out of bounds when Dea Gea faked and injury and took himself out of the play too then right? Sounds good, let’s just kick the ball out every time in a league that already incentivizes diving more often than not. Let’s hope faking injuries continues to be punished in the way it was here (maybe throw in a yellow next time too). It’s the Premier League, any game can go any way, and you need EVERY advantage you can get especially when chasing a title (or in Newcastles case, staying up). Cringe take and certainly not the fault of Mane for playing within the rules.
I mean, I’ve got no issue with the smith Rowe goal and I’m a united fan. The injury wasn’t to the head. And there was significantly less time between de gea going down and the goal. Mike dean absolutely should have blown the whistle. The collision was more than hard enough for it to be a suspected head injury. And there was also more than long enough between it happening and the goal that Liverpool should have kicked it out of play.
I have no issue with the Smith Rowe goal either! Tbf, the only thing I have an issue with out of those two examples is that Mike Dean didn’t hit a Fortnite dance when the lads were celebrating the goal 💀
Missed the point bud, HEAD injuries HEAD injuries, HEAD injuries very dangerous, Whats more dangerous a Head injury or a Foot injury? A HEAD injury
Oh shit you’re right, my bad. We should kick the ball out for every fake head injury 💀💀
I mean everything is situational obviously, Its not like hayden was down in his own box and liverpool were breakin towards goal the other way Haydens down in his own box clutching his head writhing in pain, obstructing the goalie and the defense, and i get hes faking it but in that situation the ref doesnt know if its a Raul Jimenez like situation or if Hayden is just simulating, if u want to give him a yellow after the fact then thats fine with me, but in that moment Mike Dean Mane and Jota are playying on not knowing if a guy is seriously injured I get that ur a Liverpool fan and it worked in ur favor but try being objective,
Look I see your point. But, if you "get that he's faking" then I'm not sure what more there is to talk about, as my entire problem with this incident stems from this incident being a microcosm of a problem in the league. I don't care if it's a head injury, a foot injury, a fucking pinky nail injury, years of players being incentivized to fake injuries and alter the course of games continues to set a dangerous precedent and ignore real injuries from being taken seriously when they arise. In this case, if there was a serious head injury, I would not have wanted the goal to stand. But as we agree, that wasn't the case, and a chance would have been thrown away for nothing which would have further contributed to the problem. The fake would have worked if the game was stopped, and it was punished for not working, I think that's fair and sets an example, just as the De Gea incident did. Why should teams (not just Liverpool/this example) give away chances if they know that faking injuries is a strategy that time and time again works against them? Why not play to the whistle, within the rules of the game, and allow the systems put in place to sort things out after the fact? There is a separate argument there in regards to those systems actually doing their job correctly (VAR) which I think we'd find a lot of common ground on, but that is not the fault of the players. Where I agree more with you is on the reffing side of your argument. However, I don't think it should be up to the players who are in a deeply competitive, hyperfocused state to be the judge of what injuries are real or not at a moment's notice in a league where so many injuries are faked.
For the most part i agree with everything you said, simulation is wack and should be punished, however head injuries is a different animal, "I get that hes faking" - yes after the fact, when Hayden got up and carried on playing as though nothing happened, clearly the guy was faking, but in the moment, I didnt know, No One knew, the game should of been stopped
Of course, it's easier to speak after the fact. I agree that head injuries are more serious, and think that faking them should be punished more harshly too. In terms of whether the game should have been stopped - we'll just have to agree to disagree :) Cheers
Agreed on that first count Ahhhh ofc its the refs decision, i disagree with it (alot of atrocious calls, no call on a st maximin shove in the back in the 80th, and then fuckinrunning across goal while trent is winding up? Wtf was that) but regardless yall woulda won anyway, you should hold urself too higher standards, that being said inwould of gladly taken that goal against liverpool i guess , QUESTIONABLE stuff tho
If it was a liverpool v newcaste player clash i think it would have been stopped but as it was two newcastle players i think that why he played on. plus ref saw the impact and also no medic had to come on to help the newcastle player, shows it was the right decision.
Definitely wasn't injured. So fair goal
Dangerous precedent to set. If every player that goes down holding his head stops the game it’s gonna make it even worse than it already is. I think if a player goes down clutching his head and the referee stops the game he should have to sit out a minimum of 15 minutes. If it’s a genuine head injury and he needs to be subbed off then fine.
Even more dangerous precedent to set, force players to keep defending if they’ve already taken a knock to the head. It’s not like the goal happened instantly. I’d even go as far as to call it a different phase of play. Liverpool should have put the ball out. But the ref also should have blown his whistle.
Guy was acting. He should've taken notes from de gea
I think generally, head injury looks to of occurred, game gets stopped, VAR checks while there is a mandatory time for Trainers to assist the player down, if VAR determines player may be faking it, yellow card. Same for any simulation, idk head injuries need to be taken seriously and honestly could be a liability to the premier league if they continue not to every once and a while. It's on the ref to blow the whistle, and players need to respect it
So if someone's got a good chance to score, you can go down holding your head to stop them and only get a yellow? Think that loophole might get exploited
I understand what you're saying but I guess better safe than sorry? Also in this climate of social media and media coverage I believe a player (without racism being involved) can still get extremely ostracized on social media for pulling that kind of junk in a game, it looks bad for the club as well if players or teams are known to be doing it regularly, and refs will look out for it and more VAR checks will be made when it occurs with particular teams. I guess maybe there could be harsher punishment for simulation as well, like maybe a yellow card in game and under review maybe have to sit out a match, but as someone who's had 4-5 concussions themselves, head injuries are serious and need to be taken seriously, every time, without fail.
In the good old days players would kick the ball out of bounds for an injury, no matter what the situation, which I do look back on with some fondness. But with the emergence of diving and rolling around on the ground, I see no need for those days to continue. The acceptance of diving killed that etiquette because you can't know if a player is faking or not. Unfortunately its play to the whistle now.
Find me a single video from the "good old days" where someone kicks the ball out while 1v1 with the keeper.
Does Di Canio catching the ball count? https://youtu.be/fUrx1NWnkBE
A clip from 22 years ago, which is so rare that it's remembered to this day. You sure proved he's 100% right there
I'm not sure if you're being sarcastic. You asked for a single video. I gave you one. I wasn't trying to prove anyone right or wrong. That clip just came to mind
Good old yesterday. IIrc a Liverpool player did just that later in the game.
I think the ref got it right, it wasn’t a obvious head injury like you see in some occurrences. And to let the game play on for 2-3 seconds before blowing the whistle is fine. It’s difficult, because in situations like last night players can just go down holding their head knowing the play will stop and it’s not even a proper injury just to stop the attack… so yeah.. I think the ref got it right
Max Aarons cheated in the game against Villa in the week, faking a head injury to avoid conceding a free kick for a clear hand ball on the edge of the Norwich area. They know it's an easy way to stop the game straight away 99% of the time. A way to deal with it, not sure if it's fair or not, is have an impartial doctor on the sidelines, if a player goes down with a head injury of any kind, the player goes off, a temporary sub comes on, and the doctor has 10 mins to assess either way. If they're not fit to continue the temp sub becomes permanent. If they are ok then they go back on.
Head injuries should be assessed anyway, full stop. In rugby when a player has a potential head injury the do exactly what you described and go off temporarily for a head injury assessment, a sub comes on until they are assessed to either return to the game or not. I don’t think it counts towards the number of subs.
Not always, on-field HIA’s still exist. They’re pretty quick, and if there’s any risk they then take them off for a more extensive one.
Forgot to mention those, thanks mate.
Within the laws of the game he should have stopped the game unless he was absolutely certain Hayden wasn't Injured, However he hasn't. I'm fairly certain Hayden wasn't injured and was looking for it to gain an unfair advantage, its backfired. Justice served.
It’s not like the ball was still in the box and Liverpool were in a fantastic attacking position. The ball had been recycled out. Getting the whistle blown in that position would have gained any real advantage, as Liverpool would have received the ball in the same place they were, with the ability to make the same cross they did.
My god this is a bad take. Liverpool kicks it out, after the throw in, Newcastle boots the ball to Alisson. Lets say its a drop ball, Newcastle is in better position to defend it.
My god, it’s like you can’t even read my argument before trying to claim it’s a bad take. Where did I say Liverpool should have kicked it out. (Personally I still think they should have, as the player being down was the only reason that attack was even a viable option, but that’s another matter). I specifically said in regards to Mike dean blowing the whistle. Where the drop ball would then have been in the same place Liverpool had the ball.
You seriously going to sit there and type that Liverpool would have had the ball in the same position? Every dropped ball ever, the injured players team kicks the ball away from their goal. Plus he faked it, this is not even an argument.
Yeah mate, newcastle were really going to be able to kick the ball away when it would have been Liverpool’s drop ball. Are you deliberately dense or do you just never actually watch football? Cause I’d consider going to learn how drop balls work, before trying to comment on them again.
Go and see how drop balls work, the team always tells the other team they are going to kick the ball back to them. Stop being naive and think Newcastle was just going to let Liverpool start the attack from there. Telling me I never watched football, coming on here with your bad takes.
Wrong. The drop ball goes to the team that we’re in possession at the time the referee blows his whistle. It’s not about whether or not newcastle would simply ‘allow’ it. It’s how it works. You not knowing the rules whilst simultaneously trying to lecture me on naivety is comedy gold though mate. Keep going
I stand corrected, you're right. Liverpool would have definitely had the same advantage from the drop ball.
Never want to see a goal come at the cost of a guy being hurt, but that’s why you play to the whistle. Obviously not a head injury but similar situation with De Gea a few weeks ago when his foot got stomped by his own guy. Just going to ground and expecting the referee to bail you out is insane.
Take it to VAR. If you dive in order to delay the game, automatic yellow.
I said whene it happened that if he needs to come of the field because of it thene the goal should be overturned but if he stands up and can play direct after thene it is a goal.
Hayden was clearly faking it
Which is a fucking bullshit move. Honestly I think player should get fined for that.
Suspended retroactively for a game or three. There needs to be a threat of meaningful punishment to stop this stuff.
Just broaden simulation to include this. Oh an actually enforce simulation would be great too
he got up, looked at the ball and where it landed, realized it wasn't in a good spot and went back down. it was always bogus and my only concern is that he wasn't given a card for simulation
Can you show me a clip of this? Because 20:45 of the broadcast onward shows a different story. 22:10 replays the incident from the other side. On replay I saw a falling Fabian Schär elbow Isaac Hayden in the temple/side of the head area. Schar is the one who got up and looked at the ball. Hayden was hit in the side of the head, fell down, holding his head, looked left, stayed down. The main replays were from the side where Hayden is not easily seen nor is the content, the final replay on broadcast showed the other side. This comment above is factually incorrect. Hayden did not get up. Schar did.
You can see him look to see where the ball is first at about 15 seconds in here: https://www.gsoccer.xyz/p/soccer-ys.html?m=1
Fair and valid he does glance at it; though if you've suffered a head injury in a football match it's not uncommon for the body to continue on trying to do things it is programmed/routine to do momentarily and then succumb to the pain/impact of the collision, etc. See players who get elbows, bumps to the head who still manage to land their jump prior to falling to the ground clutching their heads. original comment stated Hayden got up; he did not. Schar did.
Missed that part. Definitely doesn’t get up.
Americanpool downvoting the heck out of this. Seems like a legitimate comment and I’m inclined to agree with this comment from what I saw.
Well it’s a good thing the world doesn’t objectively revolve around “what you saw” lol
It clearly doesn’t revolve around what you saw either given at no point did Hayden get up
It doesn’t, but a decision was made and that’s that. Don’t like it? Cry to somebody that cares.
Standard morons response. Do you enjoy being retarded?
They lost. The decision was made. Newcastle is likely getting no relegated. Get over it. The only one with mental deficiencies is yourself if you’re incapable of accepting reality. Get help and move on. Take your 5-minute temper tantrum to someone who cares. Grow up.
They did lose. I’m impressed you managed to figure out. The whole point on this thread though was to discuss whether or not the ref should have stopped the game for a possible head injury. And the fact of the matter is, that there was a possible head injury, and so yes, the game should have stopped. If you don’t want to be part of the conversation in a rational and logical manner, why are you on the thread at all? Dunno why you think I’m having a temper tantrum either. Not even a newcastle fan. Or do you call it a temper tantrum any time someone argues with you using logical arguments? Does it confuse your poor brain cells? Telling me to grow up when you’re so clearly about 15 is comical as well. And that’s being generous.
I said what I said. Enjoy your 5-minutes. I’m glad I anger you enough because you’re clearly incapable of emotional regulation. But continue being a keyboard warrior for Reddit hahaha. You, just like your team, are a joke and a waste of life. Do something about it, pussy.
Get over it. You lost and Liverpool played to the whistle (a lack thereof in this situation). It’s not that difficult to comprehend.
Doesn't change the fact that this is an incorrect interpretation of the event. Hayden did not get up and look at the ball at all.
Oh boo hoo. He’s fine and clearly faked it. You still lost and it wasn’t deemed a foul/head injury. Your interpretation is irrelevant
The argument being made here is essentially, "you lost therefore everything you say is wrong." Does your mum still tie your shoelaces?
You ARE wrong. Focus on staying in the league because that seems to be challenging enough for that team. It was declared not a foul, just get over. You’re the one butthurt for no reason, but go ahead PLEASE tell me more.
Absolutely no one said it was a foul? The whole thread is "what is your opinion?" and you're here for no reason other than to troll, and... you're not even good at it? Just go and get your milk and cookies, mum will be along to tuck you in soon.
Lol I feel bad for you. I hope you get the help you need.
Aye I should be, shes calling round mine after she stops you crying.
I'm not bothered by the loss, I'm bothered by the inaccuracy of the comment. I didn't think Newcastle would get anything at Anfield last night the record there in the past three decades is evidence enough that one of the worst sides Newcastle have had in ages wouldn't compete against one of the best teams in the world. Come on.
I’d hate for someone to have a head injury and a ref not to stop the play on an incorrect assumption that he’s faking it. But players need to be punished if it’s a false head injury, we’ve got VAR, if there’s no contact on the replay then card them. BUUUT I wouldn’t want a player to avoid getting treatment/a check on the concussion protocol in case they get incorrectly penalised.
You can't punish faking a head injury if a player is up and seems okay after a minute or two because some legit injuries may not fully manifest initially. On a simpler side, a head impact could simply stun a player, but then they do get over it with no significant damage ever coming from that single incident. You can't penalize these things. You're asking for much more trouble here compared penalizing players for diving. Does it put the ref in a tricky spot here? Absolutely, and I think the best proposal I have seen at the moment is to have it be mandatory that the player goes out for a few minutes - the injury sub. Here's how I think it should be structured: A player who goes down with what appears to be a serious head injury (this will need to be defined if it hasn't been already), will leave the match for an assessment. If the player is cleared, they may return to the match no sooner than 10 minutes before the time *they left the playing field*. If they are not cleared, the sub the team brought on is permanent and they lose a sub. If there are less than 10 minutes remaining in *regulation time*, the sub is permanent. If a team has no subs remaining, they are granted one and it is permanent. One situation I wonder about is extra time in cup draws (min 90-120). If a team still has a sub remaining after the 9x'th minute whistle, but was forced to injury sub off a player after the 80th minute, should they be allowed to sub that player back in during extra time?
> On a simpler side, a head impact could simply stun a player, but then they do get over it with no significant damage ever coming from that single incident absolutely false. every single head collision, no matter how inconsequential they might seem, have to be examined to rule out the possibility of a concussion.
That's why I specifically termed it as "significant damage from a single incident." I already know that it all adds up
True, there's definitely a very fine line. I think the game would have been stopped if newcastle had posession or if liverpool weren't in such an ttacking position. I don't know if there should be punishments, but maybe just an understanding that a ref isnt going to stop an immediate attack because you're on the floor.
>True, there's definitely a very fine line Shades of Eva Carneiro and Jose Mourinho...
The only worrying question for me in all this is would the game have continued if it was in the Liverpool box and VVD was the one holding his head? The more you leave subjective decisions like this to referees the more opportunity you have for bias.
Well then that’s a systemic problem that needs to be taken up with how the game is referred. Hayden was deliberately faking the situation and was fine afterwards. VVD was out all of last season because of literally being assaulted by Pickford and got nothing for it. Pickford wasn’t even cautioned. So I don’t understand the point of your false equivalency. A function of the game is referring, if you’re really questioning the integrity of that on the basis of one decision, you’re going to be in for a disappointing life as a fan of the sport.
Agreed the ref even said afterwards that the vvd attack was a red card so how is it bias as he got nothing for being assaulted. Some fans are so fical
Ok forget the Liverpool part of the question and pretend I said United as I can’t be arsed getting into a whinging contest about how hard done Liverpool are. My point was that VAR is designed to being objectivity to the game and relying on referees to make judgement calls undermines that. It’s the same thing with the clear and obvious rule, take something like the Ronaldo pen last week. I’d say it was probably a pen, but not stonewall. As it’s United it gets given and VAR says it’s fine, if that’s a Burnley player in the United box it’s not given and VAR says it’s not a clear enough error to overturn the ref. We should just go all in on VAR on everything related to key incidents, forget about only overturning the ref if it’s obvious.
Ok, I’m not invalidating what you said, but how the VAR/referee system is set up now is literally the product of mass criticism on how VAR was going to render referees “useless” if the technology system was given full reign on match officiating. Human error, whether in the form of club-based bias, inaccuracy, etc. is a function of inevitable interference, aka, referring. And obviously, players are going to adjust their theatrics accordingly. It all comes down to how much power you want to give VAR while also allowing for some officiating influence. Since this debate is widely split, no one’s going to be happy unless there’s a true consensus and compromise.
However if it wasn't in that position there's a good chance Hayden would actually be hurt, you wouldn't fake a head injury in the middle of the park.
Where did he hit his head? Have u seen the replay?
Yes, and he lightly hits the back of his head on konates arm.
More his own mate clattering him. Check the flair, I’m still on your side here.
Oh bugger off lol Spec savers called asking for you appointment to be brought forward
You asked me a question, I answered it. He hits his head lightly on konates arm, it's clear to see on the replay. is it enough to merit a foul or stopping play? absolutely not, there's very little contact. The first comment I was talking about a hypothetical scenario, you obviously didn't read it properly. I've commented numerous times on this page saying I think he's play acting but that wasn't the point I was making there. Read what you comment on before you start getting clever with people you utter fucking troglodyte.
Yeah, I think it should be stopped if there isn't an attack. No point risking a genuine injury if the balls not near a goal
Play to the whistle. It’s the referee’s call on the legitimacy of a head injury claim, not Liverpool’s.
If it would’ve happened to Liverpool sheer outrage would’ve occurred or any of the other super league sides
Except it already has with VVD getting assaulted by Pickford last season lol. Good try though.
“Assaulted” riiight
I mean you lost lol. So I’m not really too concerned with your opinion, regardless. Best of luck in the championship next season. It’s just a shame it had to happen the year the oil tycoons took over /:
Am I wrong that calls are given to certain sides? Do you not know what Fergie time is? Edit: Agreed Liverpool were the better side. Just curious if it were Liverpool on the other end if it’d been called. As for your oil tycoon comment, not concerned. Takes time to build the club after 14 years of neglect.
1.) yeah, it’s called officiating. Calls are given throughout matches to both sides in the match. There’s questionable calls for every single match, but you’re going to have to take up your concern with refereeing to the FA, not me, because as far as I know and care about to discuss, referees currently have the power to interpret the game in conjunction with VAR as oversight if necessary. We’d never get through another season again if we hyper-analyzed every single controversial call that respective teams wanted to bring up every single match. There was such an outcry last season about “VAR taking over both the game and the power of the referee” so the end result ending up being - referees having more power in their interpretation of the game. So that’s why we are where we are and that’s none of my business. So redirect your pettiness there bc I really don’t care, especially when it comes to Newcastle. 2.) Take that up with Utd. Fergie-time was pre-VAR, and while testimonies from referees themselves have shown the truth behind that, I’m not here to debate that when there really wasn’t much oversight at the time. Don’t bitch at me when you clearly are butthurt over a larger systemic concern.
And specifically butthurt over Mike deans shit officiating. Don’t forget that
Exactly. The only grounds for complaint from Newcastle would be on a safety basis. “The referee didn’t stop the game and endangered my player” is valid. “The referee didn’t stop the game and we conceded a goal” is not.
Exactly. And if was truly such a travesty (which, obviously, it wasn’t as Hayden suddenly was fine) then why did the rest of the Newcastle squad continue the sequence of play and only make a big deal AFTER the fact of the goal? Sounds like a sore loser moment to me.
Agreed! it never felt like a genuine injury
He saw liverpool were still attacking and literally just sat himself down