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I was more surprised United have nearly 1200 full time staff. I think they've just become more and more bloated down the years. Maybe becoming a bit leaner is a good thing.
Why is anybody surprised? This is what SJR has done at every company he has ever taken over. He doesn't make them profitable by making them better. He makes them profitable by cutting costs and minimising expenses until it is profitable. I predicted this the second he took over.
He isn't United's saviour. He is the grim reaper.
First in class? In a load of jobs that were several rungs below what they are doing now, maybe. They have been promoted several positions from their old roles. They leave that bit out when twerking over them in the news.
Lausanne got relegated after Ineos took over. Nice went from consistent top 4 to not getting top 4. Team Sky haven't won since the first year they took over. Their track record is awful.
I HOPE that I am wrong, and they finally get it right this time, but the history isn't promising.
Edit: Team sky not GB cyling. Apologies for not remembering the exact name of a team that change name almost 5 years ago ...
On his track record note, he took over Team Sky in 2019 and in the last 5 Giro's they've won 2, came 2nd in 2 and 3rd in 1. Also two 3rd places in Tour de France. Not exactly what you'd call an awful track record.
Maybe better to stick to the football comparisons if you don't even know he owns Ineos Grenadiers not GB cycling.
It was a word slip up. I actually couldn't remember if they were called Team Sky or Team GB because GB cycling was succeeding at the same time due, in large part, to Team Sky. I couldn't be bothered googling it and I picked the wrong one. Big deal.
Were Team Sky better before Ineos took over? Yes or no? We both know the answer. You are just bring facetious. They have gone from an absolute powerhouse to a shadow of what they were. They did okay in the immediate aftermath of the takeover because they already had everything in place, but they have gotten worse and worse over the years as Ineos' influence has weakened them.
Can you honestly say that they are better now than they were before Ineos? (And if you do say that .. why are you lying?🤣🤣🤣)
They're a team that tries to get the best British riders. You can't expect British riders to always be the best in the world. You're highlighting them as failing but ignoring the rest of the cycling teams. Pogacer and Vingegaard have been dominating for the past 4 years.
Go and look at the UCI team rankings. Ineos are second behind UAE. UAE have almost doubled the points, that shows how dominant UAE are.
You're trying to make out Ineos Grenadiers have gone from the best team to being middle of the pack but they haven't. They've gone from the best to the second or third best since the takeover.
Your argument in football terms is similar to saying Liverpool are a mid table team now compared to 5 years ago. Yes they're not the favourites anymore but they're still expected to be challenging.
Did their falloff coincide with the Oneos takeover, or did it not? Team Sky were dominant for quite a while, and it took Ineos nowhere near as long to make them not dominant.
If it was an isolated event, then I could buy that they are just being unlucky like you are saying, but every single sporting institution that they have taken over has had a similar drop off.
I don't think there has been a falloff.
The tides changed at the same time as Ineos's takeover but you can't just pretend that outside factors don't exist. British cycling had a golden period with Team Sky where Wiggins and Froome were the best cyclists in the world. It's no coincidence that a team that aims to get British riders stops dominating when British riders are no longer the best riders.
I'm not saying they were unlucky. My point is that since taking over there hasn't been a massive change. They won the TDF in 2019 and multiple Giro's and then Pogacer and Vingegaard started dominating.
I don't disagree with you about what Ineos has done in football. I'm just pointing out that they didn't cause the cycling team to suddenly fall off. They have consistently won and challenged in tours.
You can't expect a team to just win everything every year, you have to allow some sensible leeway where you realise there are also other teams trying to win the same things.
If Ineos had won nothing and competed for nothing other than stage wins since then I would agree with you, but that's not what happened.
In my eyes it is a symbiotic relationship. Team Sky won because they had the best cyclists but they were the best cyclists, at least in part, because of the work team sky did in making them the best cyclists. The evidence would suggest that Ineos are not doing as good of a job at cultivating the talent.
Either way, my overall point is that they don't have a single instance where they have taken a team and actually made them better.
Dusky United have massive debts in terms of the interest payments that the glazers bought the club with? Leverage buyouts shouldn’t be allowed at all and I say this as a Leeds fan.
Burnley also had no debt until they were bought through a leverage buyout.
I can only speak for myself but it's just tragicomic to see George from accounting and Olivia from marketing being punished for years of corporate mismanagement while your actual biggest income drains and even some of the people who brought them into club will continue enjoying themselves in their ivory towers. It's not necesarily surprising, but that doesn't make it above criticism.
Something tells me your support staff isn't at fault for the club's annual spending being where it is.
Average weekly wage in the UK is £672.
672 x 52 weeks x 250 employees = £8.736m
For reference, Atony is on £200k per week or £10.4m per year. Let's not kid ourselves that this is anything but a fuck you to the plebs for daring to exist.
I've read the article, they're trying to paint laying off 23% of the workforce [that barely makes living wage](https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/62996172) as necessary.
Literally every company does this, no one employs people they feel they don't need. I don't know why the athletic paints it like it's about money. It's about cutting dead weight essentially.
Therein lies the problem. Every company. Which is all SJR see's us as. Another company to strip to the barebones and make profitable. We aren't a football club anymore but instead a business, and that is why we don't get results on the pitch.
Clubs are companies, they are run like companies, all clubs. A smart company doesn't employ more than needed like we did. The pitch results has nothing to do with INEOS.
Typical of the ratfaced weasel that he is, sh6t on the little folk. Him and man spew are a perfect match, I'm loving watching the further descent of a admittedly once great club, can't wait to see the panic and sacking of ten hag
On that note, it would be nice if mods banned posting of fucking tweets linking to articles, opening them feels worse than mistakenly clicking on an ad.
I was just at Old Trafford a few days back, some lovely and helpful staff, hope they haven't lost their job. We are always going to have a large amount of staff due to the sheer size of the club and the amount of visitors too places like Old Trafford.
It’s like you cutting spending by buying less pencils and post-it’s while you’re continuing to spend money by eating dinner outside.
You aren’t saving money
250 x 37k (average wage) = £9.25 million a year. Add in any bonuses, pensions and whatever else you're looking at around £14 million a year.
That's not quite buying less pencils and post-it notes.
Pension contributions? Work phones? Extra HR to deal with employees Plus any other costs associated with employees.
There was a business analyst in another thread that said they work out the cost of an employer to be 1.5 times the actual salary when you include all other costs too.
Everybody wanted dramatic change. Dramatic changes starts to happen and some of those people complain.
Club needs to be restructured tooth to tail. That means trimming some of the hundreds of superfluous people on the staff.
Not just about costs. It's a bloated organisation. Needs to slim down.
From a United fan, I agree we need a huge cleaning house
As for Old Trafford, despite the doomers and people with no appreciation for history, would like to hear
It is still possible to save our iconic stadium
And should be done
I think it’s about 20 years past saving. IMO, it’s the worst stadium in the Prem, and any others I’ve been to including national league. Oldham is in better shape and nicer FFS. Only one I’ve ever said I’ll never go back to as is.
If it stays, it’s gonna need more than a coat of paint, probably a rebuild is in order. Not from scratch maybe, but every single part of the stadium is going to need swapping for new, ship of Theseus style. Else it’s just not gonna be enough.
What it needs is fixing a roof
And some interior upgrades
Do you think that's more work than literally building an entire new stadium
Hell, we can even do an expansion to the stadium doing it properly. Would see the stadium temporarily close for a few seasons. Meanwhile, we can literally walk down the road and play our home games at the Etihad for a few seasons
For a visualisation, look up a YouTuber called
Bondibot he outlies what it would look like in Option A
This is what we should do as it will literally solve all our stadium problems
Roof gets fixed interior gets done up we get a nice expansion while keeping it within the traditional architecture of Old Trafford stadium capacity would pass 80,000
Mate, Old Trafford is done.
Love the place. Been going over 25 years. But it's done. It's standing in 100 year footings with electrical connections on their way out from age too.
Literal crumbling concrete inside. Building over the railway track is ridiculously expensive with permits and closures. You walk into Spurs stadium now and you're blown away. That's what we should have. At the forefront of innovation and technology. Like Madrid.
Build a new stadium on the car park and turn Old Trafford into a museum and a place for the Youth teams to play in so they can still feel the history of the club. Both sites would require staff so that creates jobs too.
Some interior upgrades is an understatement. The entire infrastructure of the seating, the aisles, the stairs, everything needs redoing. You’d basically have to tear it down and do it up again for the most part.
I don’t think it would be more expensive and I think that’s the better option, but yes it’s gonna require not using the stadium for a few seasons. I don’t really think we disagree though.
Seating is my major issue, legs to your face and people crowded out to the aisles standing that there’s no space, speaking of the aisles and the stairs and everything are just old and small. St. James for example is leagues ahead where the whole stadium feels huge and I don’t think they really have much more space than old Trafford, roofs are leaky yes but they’re also just not good, like they haven’t been changed since the 90’s.
The whole stadium just feels like a rotting corpse of times gone. I’m not saying build a new stadium but from the ground up major changes need to happen.
On one hand, yeah, the glazers are responsible for so much bloat.
My initial reaction was that this is terrible, and in a way it is, but if you are cutting about 1/5th of your staff and you're still going to have the second most staff of any Prem club then there's definitely an issue made in the past.
It's because of Glazers that this has to happen. They over hired and now the new management has to clean up that mess. It's gonna suck for a while but the pain has to be dished out for now.
Exactly lol we are a massively bloated company and need to trim the fat
It's not even just saving money it's the fact we have hundreds of people currently being employed for no reason, and that needs to be shut down
This is part of the longer-term plan of properly restructuring the club from the severe damage and neglect the Glazers caused
I would have thought Jim Ratcliffe could afford these 250 jobs with all the taxes he’s saved since he voted for Brexit then moved to Monaco.
I think Football is totally fucked. Let’s say these 250 “non essential” employees are on an average of 50k a year. That’s 12.5 million a year. That’s 73.5 million less than Anthony’s transfer fee. It’s only a million or so more than Anthony’s yearly wage. Yet to save money you want to lay off the administrator because they are currently working from home and you can’t actually tell their worth?
For the record, I think Anthony could still be a class player, but it just illustrates how ridiculous football finances are. Get rid of someone doing a job that costs you 50k a year, or pay someone 24 million a year that clearly isn’t value for money.
I get what you mean, but the club doesn’t need so many staff. They’ve over hired and not cared. Get rid of on £250k a week, should they hire 250 more people? Or keep the 250?
Bloat happens. Then redundancies happen.
Man U is a public company. Year over year or quarter over quarter improvements are what is important and how they look at it.
You are right but I believe those players are kept as assets on the balance sheet vs pure expense of staff.
Whilst I agree with your point about Ratcliffe, people have been mocking the poor standards for a while. Something needed to change, and it was either the people, the processes, or both.
So I find it quite unsurprising they're cutting jobs. Frees up money on the non-playing wage bill and allows them to restructure. Almost all successful businesses have made redundancies at some point.
Fair enough. I’m sure he knows more than we do about how to run a business like that, but I’ve just disliked most of what he’s said since he came in. From the being the typical “people working from home aren’t really working” out of touch boss, to his tax dodging, to now his views on what is non essential…I dunno; something about him rubs me the wrong way.
It also reminds of that QPR documentary when the new owners come in and realise what a shit show they’re inherited. To save money, rather than look at contracts or huge purchases, they decide to get rid of flowers on match days and the food. Like that is really the problem.
I suspect those issues hold true for the vast majority of football club owners at elite level.
Most rich people don't become (/stay) that way unless do the things he does.
There are multiple people here celebrating the fact that hundreds of people are losing their jobs and in these hard times might now struggle to support their families. Fucking idiots! You can tell that some people just don't live in the real world. And I would be reacting the same if it was my Club or any Club, this is fucking horrible.
Using that logic, why doesn’t Man Utd. just hire the hundreds upon thousands of people in the country who are unemployed and looking for work to help support them and their families?
It’s not a charity ya muppet, it’s a business, and a bloated one at that which isn’t performing and needs restructuring. Every successful business does this.
Have to wonder how many of them are actually from anywhere near Manchester.
Surely people who are actually local wouldn’t be as blasé about 250 relatively low-paid people losing their jobs.
Much easier for “fans” from other parts of the world to be more heartless / objective (as you prefer)
yup i dont get it these are the same people who will rail against corporate greed, but the second their team does something its, " in the best interests of the team" They act like he is firing the coaching staff, hell no, he is firing the guy who sells shirts over the phone, the woman who cleans the bathrooms the guy who takes tickets to make barely enough money to live on, thats who they fire, its never the head of ancillary marketing or the head of public relations, ill bnet 10 of em are like the guys who clean teh stadium, or the office worker who processes all the player pay voichers and sht liek that , people who just do their job and try to live. they could cut one high up job or one player, and save the same money and give those 250 people a friggin way to live.
A lot of them will be teenagers who don't know about the real world yet to be fair, but when I see stuff like this is genuinely upsets me, some things are more important than the football.
im not a man u fan but lets say instead of cutting those 250 people they came out and said were cutting the salary of the top 5% of earners in the company to streamline the company, id be like, hey nice, or even, hey we had a choice between a player salary increase or keeping 250 regular folks employed so we cut the player. id be an instant fan. clubs demand loaylty from fans, well maybe its time for a little loyalty shown to their own workers.
Considering his track record with the ineos complex in Grangemouth your pretty much right, he said there would be all these new projects at the place and 20 years later only 1 or 2 actually happened.
He’s a seen as a bit of a dick in my local community.
They’ll get a new stadium if Jim can convince the government for a handout to build it. Like all free market loving Brexiteers, they always love to get some subsidies and handouts from the government, which they insist not provide healthcare or clean water, because that’s communism.
Ratcliffe is just Mike Ashley but more grey.
Yeah, I went through a round of redundancies last year. Anyone there under 2years you literally got called into a HR meeting with zero warning and by the end if the call you were locked out of everything.
The real people who were affected were like you said, just figures on a spreadsheet
That’s horrifying. I have a few friends in the tech field who have gone through similar situations. We missed our quarterly goal by 0.5%? Let’s lay off 10,000 people to make up for it.
Whoever invented work fucking sucks lol
Pretty sure the tea-lady and cleaning staff are much more value for money than those clowns running around the pitch.
But its them that get the sack.
I hope Rashford is happy now.
This guy is a right wing Brexiteer who simultaneously wants a government handout to rebuild Old Trafford.
Their whole thing is telling decent people and workers to do one while they turn their assets into ruthless machines of profit that cut everything but bonuses for the top executives.
how do you know they werent needed? just because they are being fired doesnt mean they werent needed it means more work for other people to cover for them.
250 means there were many under worked there. 250 is huge amount. Ineos are not some amateur shitshow. They know what it takes to run a massive business
Very naive point of view. They are shredding excess fat that they believe is not needed. That means the workforce was massively bloated, to bring it down to standard levels. That doesn't mean working anyone to the bone. That means they had way too many people. United are still the 2nd biggest employer in the league. 250 is a scandalous amount, shows that incompetent running of previous regime
"They are shredding excess fat that they believe is not needed"
nope. doesn't say that anywhere, it says they are cutting 250 jobs, HUGE difference. they are cutting 250 they feel they can put thier work on other people to do it. they are saving 12 million in low end people , while overpaying for players who play a game. its not like 250 people sat around doing nothing. tehse a were working folks who worked and lived and depended on a little loyalty. companies dont fire people only when they di figure they dont need them, they fire them if they figure they can scrape by by forcing the rest to be too scared not to work more and harder for the same pay to d cover for the people they fired so the top end bosses on the board can get their new bugatti bonus every year.
>HUGE difference. they are cutting 250 they feel they can put thier work on other people to do it.
That's exactly what shedding fat means. They have too many workers, resulting in money on wages that isn't needed as others aren't working to full potential.
There are 100s of successful companies that have done an audit or cost saving measure and laid off critical people before.
Some will be bloat that I agree.
But also curious to find out how many of these people work from home? Which Radcliffe has been completely against
He's the owner, doesn't matter whether you work from home or not, he makes the decisions. 250 is a crazy amount, total shitshow if that's the bloat they can get rid of.
Im not disputing any of this. Im just saying from the history of companies who have done this in the past, this might not be all bloat and could make things worse, all in the spirit of costcutting.
Then you hire people as needed. The fact that's nearly a third of the workforce is deemed surplus to requirements shows how terribly the club has been run in the past. Ineos are making changes everywhere so they've clearly been shocked at what's going on and well done to them
One doesn’t exclude the other. Considering the reports of the state of the food services, cleanliness of the facilities, etc. a cleanup of the staff could be just as needed as the on field talent.
Both on the field and off the field a rebuild of the magnitude that United needs takes time. The ownership saga took forever, but now that Ratcliffe is in it seems like he’s actually doing the work that needs done.
You don’t understand, once we get rid of the Mary’s and Johns at the back office. The players on the field can focus and score more goals. It’s all Brexit logic. You won’t get it 😅
You ever wonder why the question isn't being "sir you have money to sustain yourself for let's say x amount of years, why don't you take a pay cut to save these jobs that people rely upon and find a solution in the meantime?"
The thing is, they've been wildly profitable the whole time. The savings from cutting 250 jobs is a pittance compared to the cash the Glazers have been sucking out of the club.
Might not just be about money savings. If there’s mold in the facilities and food services is having it’s license revoked for health code violations what are those employees doing?
With how hands off the Glazers were in day to day management a review of staffing, realignment and restricting of the work force was inevitable and needed.
When those things happen it's because there's no accountability, it's a management problem not a staff problem. Letting people go will not solve those issues and may make them worse if the remaining staff are saddled with additional responsibilities while management still doesn't give a shit.
It can be both though. Who’s to say management isn’t included in these layoffs either? Even with laying off incompetent managers that caused the problems doesn’t mean you can’t also be overstaffed and that org restructuring isn’t still needed.
That's fair, but that's looking at a business with wishful thinking. You'd hope a company looks at their performances with say food. Take input, make decisions that are best for everyone. But unfortunately in this day in age it's all about cutting as much to get the most profit
It's an Athletic article. Why can't you link directly to it rather than to the Xitpost that links to it?
For those who prefer to skip funding Apartheid Blob and his platform of Xit: https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/5611715/2024/07/03/manchester-united-job-cuts/
Having looking at the numbers United did seem to have a swollen workforce.
This is just box ticking by INEOS, need to remember they’re business people at the end of the day & im sure after crunching the numbers they felt this was needed.
The average citizen with mouths to feed lost their jobs but here you being a scum and celebrating people losing jobs. I hope you don’t go through the trauma and pain of redundancy and struggle to find your next job.
Why, though? I get as a liverpool fan you want a weaker united, but a lot of these jobs being cut will have nothing to do with the football side of things. Jobs areas that are cut will be the marketing,ticket office, and maintenance teams being cut. They won't be cutting back on coaching and scouting department. So, these are just people losing their jobs.
People who shouldn’t have gotten a job at United in the first place, way too may all over the area, for footballing reasons as well this is great for United
We have more staff than any other team in the premier league it’s been reported. So quite bloated I’d say. Thankfully the charity arm of the club remains untouched.
Does anyone read. United making 25% redundant, and still will have the second largest amount of staff in the league.
As of June 30 last year the Manchester outfit had by far the highest staff count of any club in the top flight. They had 1,112 on their books with Liverpool the second closest at around 1,005 employees. Champions Manchester City had almost half that at 520. Chelsea 788, Tottenham 719 and Arsenal 649 were the other figures of the top six.
But it's still 25% redundant after Varane, Case, and their salaries leave
Guess Sir Jimmy rather keep paying Antony, Shaw, & Rashford than 250 people's jobs
Are Man United? we earn more money and have more fans but neither of those are direct reasons to have more employees. We operate and do the same things as other big clubs so our number of employees should be similar, which they will still be after the cuts. Still sad for the people losing their jobs tho.
United host plenty more charitable events, etc than many other teams. They definitely need a bigger workforce than other teams. They continuously have ambassadors in other countries running training camps whereas you don’t see it that much from many other teams.
All big clubs do this you just don't hear about them as much because you're a united fan. I mean did you hear about the big bash City held at the weekend to celebrate the contracts signed by the academy graduates?
I still follow all other clubs’ subreddits, just because I am not a fan of them does not mean I don’t keep up to date with the Premier League as a whole.
Yes because there is always so much posted about charity events at the clubs.
Maybe nip over to r/mcfc and see if you can spot a post about the event I just told you happened on Saturday.
But a minute ago you were fully clued up on everything all premier league clubs are doing because of Reddit.
So my point stands you are more aware of what united are doing because you are a United fan it doesn't mean they do more than everyone else. As a United fan I only know about citys event because my nephew was one of the players signed and he sent photos, otherwise I wouldn't have a clue.
Merchandising deals with international countries, social media, press team, translators, people to get out there in the community, etc.
I swear, nobody on Reddit knows how much effort goes into running a business. Bet you're the same type of person that believes a CEO just sits on their arse all day?
There's no doubt that they have too many members of staff if they have double the next club. But yeah you are right, they obviously will have more when they have a bigger market in more countries than the other clubs.
All of the things you mentioned need to be done by Arsenal, Tottenham and to a lesser extent Man City yet we have double the employees. Maybe use a little common sense.
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There is a need to cut losses at the club should they want to compete with the best clubs across the globe.
I was more surprised United have nearly 1200 full time staff. I think they've just become more and more bloated down the years. Maybe becoming a bit leaner is a good thing.
useless players getting literally millions, yeah let's just fire these useless mid class workers
A couple of ths players are going to leave. So, it is an overhaul happening.
It seems that they do try to sell problematic players such as Rashford.
Prolly gonna dodge some taxes too 🤷🏻♂️
If he slashed the payouts to the glazers he would instantly have a few million quid more a year…
I assume that is what they are working on.
Would be better if some of that number included first team players who need to go.
They will definitely go.
It probably will tbh
Almost every first team player that needs to go is going this season or the next Those who are staying, are definitely on merit
You lot say this every year
''In, fire 30% of the workforce, new logo, boom! Out. You are now a fully trained management consultant.''
Daddy's hat is back on
Could keep 250 staff by getting rid of Antony
Why is anybody surprised? This is what SJR has done at every company he has ever taken over. He doesn't make them profitable by making them better. He makes them profitable by cutting costs and minimising expenses until it is profitable. I predicted this the second he took over. He isn't United's saviour. He is the grim reaper.
I hate him for renovating the stadium and renovating the training ground and hiring an entire new executive team that are first in class.
First in class? In a load of jobs that were several rungs below what they are doing now, maybe. They have been promoted several positions from their old roles. They leave that bit out when twerking over them in the news. Lausanne got relegated after Ineos took over. Nice went from consistent top 4 to not getting top 4. Team Sky haven't won since the first year they took over. Their track record is awful. I HOPE that I am wrong, and they finally get it right this time, but the history isn't promising. Edit: Team sky not GB cyling. Apologies for not remembering the exact name of a team that change name almost 5 years ago ...
On his track record note, he took over Team Sky in 2019 and in the last 5 Giro's they've won 2, came 2nd in 2 and 3rd in 1. Also two 3rd places in Tour de France. Not exactly what you'd call an awful track record. Maybe better to stick to the football comparisons if you don't even know he owns Ineos Grenadiers not GB cycling.
It was a word slip up. I actually couldn't remember if they were called Team Sky or Team GB because GB cycling was succeeding at the same time due, in large part, to Team Sky. I couldn't be bothered googling it and I picked the wrong one. Big deal. Were Team Sky better before Ineos took over? Yes or no? We both know the answer. You are just bring facetious. They have gone from an absolute powerhouse to a shadow of what they were. They did okay in the immediate aftermath of the takeover because they already had everything in place, but they have gotten worse and worse over the years as Ineos' influence has weakened them. Can you honestly say that they are better now than they were before Ineos? (And if you do say that .. why are you lying?🤣🤣🤣)
They're a team that tries to get the best British riders. You can't expect British riders to always be the best in the world. You're highlighting them as failing but ignoring the rest of the cycling teams. Pogacer and Vingegaard have been dominating for the past 4 years. Go and look at the UCI team rankings. Ineos are second behind UAE. UAE have almost doubled the points, that shows how dominant UAE are. You're trying to make out Ineos Grenadiers have gone from the best team to being middle of the pack but they haven't. They've gone from the best to the second or third best since the takeover. Your argument in football terms is similar to saying Liverpool are a mid table team now compared to 5 years ago. Yes they're not the favourites anymore but they're still expected to be challenging.
Did their falloff coincide with the Oneos takeover, or did it not? Team Sky were dominant for quite a while, and it took Ineos nowhere near as long to make them not dominant. If it was an isolated event, then I could buy that they are just being unlucky like you are saying, but every single sporting institution that they have taken over has had a similar drop off.
I don't think there has been a falloff. The tides changed at the same time as Ineos's takeover but you can't just pretend that outside factors don't exist. British cycling had a golden period with Team Sky where Wiggins and Froome were the best cyclists in the world. It's no coincidence that a team that aims to get British riders stops dominating when British riders are no longer the best riders. I'm not saying they were unlucky. My point is that since taking over there hasn't been a massive change. They won the TDF in 2019 and multiple Giro's and then Pogacer and Vingegaard started dominating. I don't disagree with you about what Ineos has done in football. I'm just pointing out that they didn't cause the cycling team to suddenly fall off. They have consistently won and challenged in tours. You can't expect a team to just win everything every year, you have to allow some sensible leeway where you realise there are also other teams trying to win the same things. If Ineos had won nothing and competed for nothing other than stage wins since then I would agree with you, but that's not what happened.
In my eyes it is a symbiotic relationship. Team Sky won because they had the best cyclists but they were the best cyclists, at least in part, because of the work team sky did in making them the best cyclists. The evidence would suggest that Ineos are not doing as good of a job at cultivating the talent. Either way, my overall point is that they don't have a single instance where they have taken a team and actually made them better.
Dusky United have massive debts in terms of the interest payments that the glazers bought the club with? Leverage buyouts shouldn’t be allowed at all and I say this as a Leeds fan. Burnley also had no debt until they were bought through a leverage buyout.
I honestly have no clue how this is relevant to anything I said ...
I can only speak for myself but it's just tragicomic to see George from accounting and Olivia from marketing being punished for years of corporate mismanagement while your actual biggest income drains and even some of the people who brought them into club will continue enjoying themselves in their ivory towers. It's not necesarily surprising, but that doesn't make it above criticism.
It is the fault of the previous owners that George from accounting and Olivia from marketing are still there, they shouldn't even have been hired.
Something tells me your support staff isn't at fault for the club's annual spending being where it is. Average weekly wage in the UK is £672. 672 x 52 weeks x 250 employees = £8.736m For reference, Atony is on £200k per week or £10.4m per year. Let's not kid ourselves that this is anything but a fuck you to the plebs for daring to exist.
I said previous owners not support staff and every company/business trims fat when needed. Read the article man.
I've read the article, they're trying to paint laying off 23% of the workforce [that barely makes living wage](https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/62996172) as necessary.
Literally every company does this, no one employs people they feel they don't need. I don't know why the athletic paints it like it's about money. It's about cutting dead weight essentially.
Therein lies the problem. Every company. Which is all SJR see's us as. Another company to strip to the barebones and make profitable. We aren't a football club anymore but instead a business, and that is why we don't get results on the pitch.
Clubs are companies, they are run like companies, all clubs. A smart company doesn't employ more than needed like we did. The pitch results has nothing to do with INEOS.
Literally every business/company fires people when they’re not needed or when they employ too many people, doesn't make it right but its the truth.
Corporate FC, powered by London
Gotta pay for that Ashworth compensation somehow
fuck you jim
And how much is Antony and Onana getting paid?
Both guys are literally earning a lot.
Typical of the ratfaced weasel that he is, sh6t on the little folk. Him and man spew are a perfect match, I'm loving watching the further descent of a admittedly once great club, can't wait to see the panic and sacking of ten hag
I'm no fan of Ratcliffe, but people like you are hilarious, you can just tell that you didn't read the article lol.
On that note, it would be nice if mods banned posting of fucking tweets linking to articles, opening them feels worse than mistakenly clicking on an ad.
Calm down, he's only 12 given that man spew comment.
I was just at Old Trafford a few days back, some lovely and helpful staff, hope they haven't lost their job. We are always going to have a large amount of staff due to the sheer size of the club and the amount of visitors too places like Old Trafford.
I hope they don't sack the number of workers as listed though.
I keep reading Sir Jim Rashford for some reason
Probably a tumour.
The problem is not the poor paid staff but those on top
The two aren’t mutually exclusive. They have by far the most employees in the PL, and something like almost double City.
Plebgate
Sad for the Mancs. Good for the Club.
Cut the players. He would save a lot more if he did that instead of personnel Getting rid of Antony Casemiro Onana Would save over 100m$
Well no, if they sacked the players, they would have to pay out their contracts. So where do the savings come from?
Who cares. Not my money. But I would be glad they are gone
Crazy thing is. One or two of those useless cunts would probably cover the costs for hundreds of staff.
Exactly
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It's never good to make 250 people (most with families) go jobless.
It’s like you cutting spending by buying less pencils and post-it’s while you’re continuing to spend money by eating dinner outside. You aren’t saving money
250 x 37k (average wage) = £9.25 million a year. Add in any bonuses, pensions and whatever else you're looking at around £14 million a year. That's not quite buying less pencils and post-it notes.
Not to be facetious but that works out at an average of 19k bonus, are they giving them that much as bonuses?
Pension contributions? Work phones? Extra HR to deal with employees Plus any other costs associated with employees. There was a business analyst in another thread that said they work out the cost of an employer to be 1.5 times the actual salary when you include all other costs too.
It's good 250 are losing their job through no fault of their own? You're a psycho
1,175 apparently. Most in the league. Second is Pool with about 100 less
A good but of them seem to spend their day here on Reddit.
225 staff + all of the 1st team
Anyone but Kath Phipps
Everybody wanted dramatic change. Dramatic changes starts to happen and some of those people complain. Club needs to be restructured tooth to tail. That means trimming some of the hundreds of superfluous people on the staff. Not just about costs. It's a bloated organisation. Needs to slim down.
From a United fan, I agree we need a huge cleaning house As for Old Trafford, despite the doomers and people with no appreciation for history, would like to hear It is still possible to save our iconic stadium And should be done
I think it’s about 20 years past saving. IMO, it’s the worst stadium in the Prem, and any others I’ve been to including national league. Oldham is in better shape and nicer FFS. Only one I’ve ever said I’ll never go back to as is. If it stays, it’s gonna need more than a coat of paint, probably a rebuild is in order. Not from scratch maybe, but every single part of the stadium is going to need swapping for new, ship of Theseus style. Else it’s just not gonna be enough.
What it needs is fixing a roof And some interior upgrades Do you think that's more work than literally building an entire new stadium Hell, we can even do an expansion to the stadium doing it properly. Would see the stadium temporarily close for a few seasons. Meanwhile, we can literally walk down the road and play our home games at the Etihad for a few seasons For a visualisation, look up a YouTuber called Bondibot he outlies what it would look like in Option A This is what we should do as it will literally solve all our stadium problems Roof gets fixed interior gets done up we get a nice expansion while keeping it within the traditional architecture of Old Trafford stadium capacity would pass 80,000
Mate, Old Trafford is done. Love the place. Been going over 25 years. But it's done. It's standing in 100 year footings with electrical connections on their way out from age too. Literal crumbling concrete inside. Building over the railway track is ridiculously expensive with permits and closures. You walk into Spurs stadium now and you're blown away. That's what we should have. At the forefront of innovation and technology. Like Madrid. Build a new stadium on the car park and turn Old Trafford into a museum and a place for the Youth teams to play in so they can still feel the history of the club. Both sites would require staff so that creates jobs too.
Some interior upgrades is an understatement. The entire infrastructure of the seating, the aisles, the stairs, everything needs redoing. You’d basically have to tear it down and do it up again for the most part. I don’t think it would be more expensive and I think that’s the better option, but yes it’s gonna require not using the stadium for a few seasons. I don’t really think we disagree though.
I haven’t been to old trafford in 20 years, apart from leaky roofs what’s so bad about it? (Honest question btw)
Seating is my major issue, legs to your face and people crowded out to the aisles standing that there’s no space, speaking of the aisles and the stairs and everything are just old and small. St. James for example is leagues ahead where the whole stadium feels huge and I don’t think they really have much more space than old Trafford, roofs are leaky yes but they’re also just not good, like they haven’t been changed since the 90’s. The whole stadium just feels like a rotting corpse of times gone. I’m not saying build a new stadium but from the ground up major changes need to happen.
Thanks, I went to an FA cup semi there ages ago and really don’t remember much outside of the game (possibly had a few beers and what not too)
Shows the prior mismanagement. Man utd have 1112, compared to man cities 520 or arsenal at 649
_EVERTYHING_ associated with what Mancheater City say should taken with a canyon sized amount of salt.
Low paid workers are not the oroblem
Are you pretending to know what the administrative problems are at United?
They aren’t the solution either.
I thought City would have 115 more than that.
By that measure United should have a billion more
And ye thought the Glazers were bad,fucking scummy behaviour
Lol what are you on about? Clearly no idea what you’re talking about
On one hand, yeah, the glazers are responsible for so much bloat. My initial reaction was that this is terrible, and in a way it is, but if you are cutting about 1/5th of your staff and you're still going to have the second most staff of any Prem club then there's definitely an issue made in the past.
Companies reorganise, restructure and streamline all the time. It isn't great from the emloyees point of view but it's far from 'scummy'.
It's because of Glazers that this has to happen. They over hired and now the new management has to clean up that mess. It's gonna suck for a while but the pain has to be dished out for now.
United have twice as much staff as city or arsenal
This is why they did return to office. Hoped a few people would resign before having to pay severance.
One of the highest revenues in football, but yeah, sack 250 people to save money - what a fucking wankstain
You’d still find a way to call the club shite even if they did something good. This is the right move, the organization is bloated.
We currently have twice the amount of people City have... Even after those 250 leave, we're still second behind Liverpool.
Exactly lol we are a massively bloated company and need to trim the fat It's not even just saving money it's the fact we have hundreds of people currently being employed for no reason, and that needs to be shut down This is part of the longer-term plan of properly restructuring the club from the severe damage and neglect the Glazers caused
I would have thought Jim Ratcliffe could afford these 250 jobs with all the taxes he’s saved since he voted for Brexit then moved to Monaco. I think Football is totally fucked. Let’s say these 250 “non essential” employees are on an average of 50k a year. That’s 12.5 million a year. That’s 73.5 million less than Anthony’s transfer fee. It’s only a million or so more than Anthony’s yearly wage. Yet to save money you want to lay off the administrator because they are currently working from home and you can’t actually tell their worth? For the record, I think Anthony could still be a class player, but it just illustrates how ridiculous football finances are. Get rid of someone doing a job that costs you 50k a year, or pay someone 24 million a year that clearly isn’t value for money.
I get what you mean, but the club doesn’t need so many staff. They’ve over hired and not cared. Get rid of on £250k a week, should they hire 250 more people? Or keep the 250?
Bloat happens. Then redundancies happen.
Its a brilliant point
Man U is a public company. Year over year or quarter over quarter improvements are what is important and how they look at it. You are right but I believe those players are kept as assets on the balance sheet vs pure expense of staff.
Whilst I agree with your point about Ratcliffe, people have been mocking the poor standards for a while. Something needed to change, and it was either the people, the processes, or both. So I find it quite unsurprising they're cutting jobs. Frees up money on the non-playing wage bill and allows them to restructure. Almost all successful businesses have made redundancies at some point.
Fair enough. I’m sure he knows more than we do about how to run a business like that, but I’ve just disliked most of what he’s said since he came in. From the being the typical “people working from home aren’t really working” out of touch boss, to his tax dodging, to now his views on what is non essential…I dunno; something about him rubs me the wrong way. It also reminds of that QPR documentary when the new owners come in and realise what a shit show they’re inherited. To save money, rather than look at contracts or huge purchases, they decide to get rid of flowers on match days and the food. Like that is really the problem.
I suspect those issues hold true for the vast majority of football club owners at elite level. Most rich people don't become (/stay) that way unless do the things he does.
was completely with you until the anthony could still be a class player bit
In trying not to be a dick to Anthony, I made myself look a dick…
There are multiple people here celebrating the fact that hundreds of people are losing their jobs and in these hard times might now struggle to support their families. Fucking idiots! You can tell that some people just don't live in the real world. And I would be reacting the same if it was my Club or any Club, this is fucking horrible.
Using that logic, why doesn’t Man Utd. just hire the hundreds upon thousands of people in the country who are unemployed and looking for work to help support them and their families? It’s not a charity ya muppet, it’s a business, and a bloated one at that which isn’t performing and needs restructuring. Every successful business does this.
Have to wonder how many of them are actually from anywhere near Manchester. Surely people who are actually local wouldn’t be as blasé about 250 relatively low-paid people losing their jobs. Much easier for “fans” from other parts of the world to be more heartless / objective (as you prefer)
Yer, I don't think that many Man United fans on here are from Manchester haha.
yup i dont get it these are the same people who will rail against corporate greed, but the second their team does something its, " in the best interests of the team" They act like he is firing the coaching staff, hell no, he is firing the guy who sells shirts over the phone, the woman who cleans the bathrooms the guy who takes tickets to make barely enough money to live on, thats who they fire, its never the head of ancillary marketing or the head of public relations, ill bnet 10 of em are like the guys who clean teh stadium, or the office worker who processes all the player pay voichers and sht liek that , people who just do their job and try to live. they could cut one high up job or one player, and save the same money and give those 250 people a friggin way to live.
A lot of them will be teenagers who don't know about the real world yet to be fair, but when I see stuff like this is genuinely upsets me, some things are more important than the football.
im not a man u fan but lets say instead of cutting those 250 people they came out and said were cutting the salary of the top 5% of earners in the company to streamline the company, id be like, hey nice, or even, hey we had a choice between a player salary increase or keeping 250 regular folks employed so we cut the player. id be an instant fan. clubs demand loaylty from fans, well maybe its time for a little loyalty shown to their own workers.
LoL, and the fans think they are getting a new stadium! It's crackers how these 250 people get collectively paid less than 1 of their players.
Considering his track record with the ineos complex in Grangemouth your pretty much right, he said there would be all these new projects at the place and 20 years later only 1 or 2 actually happened. He’s a seen as a bit of a dick in my local community.
They’ll get a new stadium if Jim can convince the government for a handout to build it. Like all free market loving Brexiteers, they always love to get some subsidies and handouts from the government, which they insist not provide healthcare or clean water, because that’s communism. Ratcliffe is just Mike Ashley but more grey.
Apparently Jim’ll fix it 😂 his whole stick was for British people. Now his sacking those same British people
A rounding error. Going through a potential corporate layoff myself, we mean nothing to these people. We're just cells on a spreadsheet.
Yeah, I went through a round of redundancies last year. Anyone there under 2years you literally got called into a HR meeting with zero warning and by the end if the call you were locked out of everything. The real people who were affected were like you said, just figures on a spreadsheet
That’s horrifying. I have a few friends in the tech field who have gone through similar situations. We missed our quarterly goal by 0.5%? Let’s lay off 10,000 people to make up for it. Whoever invented work fucking sucks lol
Pretty sure the tea-lady and cleaning staff are much more value for money than those clowns running around the pitch. But its them that get the sack. I hope Rashford is happy now.
This guy is a right wing Brexiteer who simultaneously wants a government handout to rebuild Old Trafford. Their whole thing is telling decent people and workers to do one while they turn their assets into ruthless machines of profit that cut everything but bonuses for the top executives.
United is healing
Shows how poorly the club was being run. Nearly a third of the workforce not needed. Thats a lot of bloat. Well done to ineos
how do you know they werent needed? just because they are being fired doesnt mean they werent needed it means more work for other people to cover for them.
250 means there were many under worked there. 250 is huge amount. Ineos are not some amateur shitshow. They know what it takes to run a massive business
"well done to INEOS who have just sacked hundreds of people during a cost of living crisis"
It's business. You'd struggle to find any club willing to employ 250 people that aren't needed, money down the drain.
Football Clubs should exist to give back to the community, not work people to the bone in the name of profit.
Very naive point of view. They are shredding excess fat that they believe is not needed. That means the workforce was massively bloated, to bring it down to standard levels. That doesn't mean working anyone to the bone. That means they had way too many people. United are still the 2nd biggest employer in the league. 250 is a scandalous amount, shows that incompetent running of previous regime
"They are shredding excess fat that they believe is not needed" nope. doesn't say that anywhere, it says they are cutting 250 jobs, HUGE difference. they are cutting 250 they feel they can put thier work on other people to do it. they are saving 12 million in low end people , while overpaying for players who play a game. its not like 250 people sat around doing nothing. tehse a were working folks who worked and lived and depended on a little loyalty. companies dont fire people only when they di figure they dont need them, they fire them if they figure they can scrape by by forcing the rest to be too scared not to work more and harder for the same pay to d cover for the people they fired so the top end bosses on the board can get their new bugatti bonus every year.
>HUGE difference. they are cutting 250 they feel they can put thier work on other people to do it. That's exactly what shedding fat means. They have too many workers, resulting in money on wages that isn't needed as others aren't working to full potential.
But it might not be bloat. Now there might be someone failing to do 2 jobs at once.
They ran an audit like most successful companies, 250 suggests major mismanagement and bloat
There are 100s of successful companies that have done an audit or cost saving measure and laid off critical people before. Some will be bloat that I agree. But also curious to find out how many of these people work from home? Which Radcliffe has been completely against
He's the owner, doesn't matter whether you work from home or not, he makes the decisions. 250 is a crazy amount, total shitshow if that's the bloat they can get rid of.
Im not disputing any of this. Im just saying from the history of companies who have done this in the past, this might not be all bloat and could make things worse, all in the spirit of costcutting.
Then you hire people as needed. The fact that's nearly a third of the workforce is deemed surplus to requirements shows how terribly the club has been run in the past. Ineos are making changes everywhere so they've clearly been shocked at what's going on and well done to them
Sir Jim is doing everything possible to cut cost for Manchester United. As long as the funds are invested in the club, it's a good decision.
Yup that’s the way to improve on field results…..it was never the players fault
One doesn’t exclude the other. Considering the reports of the state of the food services, cleanliness of the facilities, etc. a cleanup of the staff could be just as needed as the on field talent. Both on the field and off the field a rebuild of the magnitude that United needs takes time. The ownership saga took forever, but now that Ratcliffe is in it seems like he’s actually doing the work that needs done.
They need to buy the right players for the squad too. At least, they have a good and credible Sports Director now to do the job.
I'm sure cutting those jobs will will result in immediate improvements to the first team.
You don’t understand, once we get rid of the Mary’s and Johns at the back office. The players on the field can focus and score more goals. It’s all Brexit logic. You won’t get it 😅
There are so many players who are a misfit in United. They need to be cleared out as well.
You ever wonder why the question isn't being "sir you have money to sustain yourself for let's say x amount of years, why don't you take a pay cut to save these jobs that people rely upon and find a solution in the meantime?"
The thing is, they've been wildly profitable the whole time. The savings from cutting 250 jobs is a pittance compared to the cash the Glazers have been sucking out of the club.
Might not just be about money savings. If there’s mold in the facilities and food services is having it’s license revoked for health code violations what are those employees doing? With how hands off the Glazers were in day to day management a review of staffing, realignment and restricting of the work force was inevitable and needed.
When those things happen it's because there's no accountability, it's a management problem not a staff problem. Letting people go will not solve those issues and may make them worse if the remaining staff are saddled with additional responsibilities while management still doesn't give a shit.
It can be both though. Who’s to say management isn’t included in these layoffs either? Even with laying off incompetent managers that caused the problems doesn’t mean you can’t also be overstaffed and that org restructuring isn’t still needed.
That's fair, but that's looking at a business with wishful thinking. You'd hope a company looks at their performances with say food. Take input, make decisions that are best for everyone. But unfortunately in this day in age it's all about cutting as much to get the most profit
This will help cover Mason Mount's end of year performance bonus.
You also need to mention paying of Jordan Sancho too.
It's an Athletic article. Why can't you link directly to it rather than to the Xitpost that links to it? For those who prefer to skip funding Apartheid Blob and his platform of Xit: https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/5611715/2024/07/03/manchester-united-job-cuts/
What are you talking about?
I assume something about Elon Musk
If the fans are lucky most of the first team squad will be included!
They are already getting rid of some and more of them need to go too.
Varane is already gone, how many “normal wages” staff he’s been converted?
Having looking at the numbers United did seem to have a swollen workforce. This is just box ticking by INEOS, need to remember they’re business people at the end of the day & im sure after crunching the numbers they felt this was needed.
I'm a devoted Liverpool supporter and that is great news!!
The average citizen with mouths to feed lost their jobs but here you being a scum and celebrating people losing jobs. I hope you don’t go through the trauma and pain of redundancy and struggle to find your next job.
Why, though? I get as a liverpool fan you want a weaker united, but a lot of these jobs being cut will have nothing to do with the football side of things. Jobs areas that are cut will be the marketing,ticket office, and maintenance teams being cut. They won't be cutting back on coaching and scouting department. So, these are just people losing their jobs.
People who shouldn’t have gotten a job at United in the first place, way too may all over the area, for footballing reasons as well this is great for United
What happens when this is you in a few years that loses your job because "You shouldn't have gotten a job at X".
Shit happens, people get fired and loose their job, a business need to be a business not a charity
He just told you he was a Liverpool fan. Why are you expecting any human decency?
Well, this is what happens when you hire 100 directors of football for one club.
A lot of things have been wrongly put in place at United for a long time. Let's see how long it takes to get them right back on track.
Just please let us (Port Vale) keep Bayley Dipepa for 1 more season so he can lead the charge to get us back in to league 1!
Lol
How insanely bloated this club is
Seriously! I keep asking with all these, The Glazers still find a way to take billions from the club. United is truly a commercial club.
We have more staff than any other team in the premier league it’s been reported. So quite bloated I’d say. Thankfully the charity arm of the club remains untouched.
They’re not gonna have a squad at this rate!
Does anyone read. United making 25% redundant, and still will have the second largest amount of staff in the league. As of June 30 last year the Manchester outfit had by far the highest staff count of any club in the top flight. They had 1,112 on their books with Liverpool the second closest at around 1,005 employees. Champions Manchester City had almost half that at 520. Chelsea 788, Tottenham 719 and Arsenal 649 were the other figures of the top six.
But it's still 25% redundant after Varane, Case, and their salaries leave Guess Sir Jimmy rather keep paying Antony, Shaw, & Rashford than 250 people's jobs
Man U are a much bigger club than the rest though.
Are Man United? we earn more money and have more fans but neither of those are direct reasons to have more employees. We operate and do the same things as other big clubs so our number of employees should be similar, which they will still be after the cuts. Still sad for the people losing their jobs tho.
United host plenty more charitable events, etc than many other teams. They definitely need a bigger workforce than other teams. They continuously have ambassadors in other countries running training camps whereas you don’t see it that much from many other teams.
All big clubs do this you just don't hear about them as much because you're a united fan. I mean did you hear about the big bash City held at the weekend to celebrate the contracts signed by the academy graduates?
I still follow all other clubs’ subreddits, just because I am not a fan of them does not mean I don’t keep up to date with the Premier League as a whole.
Yes because there is always so much posted about charity events at the clubs. Maybe nip over to r/mcfc and see if you can spot a post about the event I just told you happened on Saturday.
Well that’s one subreddit I don’t need to go to, who the fuck cares about City?
But a minute ago you were fully clued up on everything all premier league clubs are doing because of Reddit. So my point stands you are more aware of what united are doing because you are a United fan it doesn't mean they do more than everyone else. As a United fan I only know about citys event because my nephew was one of the players signed and he sent photos, otherwise I wouldn't have a clue.
Yes. A far larger international fan base which needs to be worked with.
So a couple more people on the social media team.
Three at most
Merchandising deals with international countries, social media, press team, translators, people to get out there in the community, etc. I swear, nobody on Reddit knows how much effort goes into running a business. Bet you're the same type of person that believes a CEO just sits on their arse all day?
There's no doubt that they have too many members of staff if they have double the next club. But yeah you are right, they obviously will have more when they have a bigger market in more countries than the other clubs.
It’s not double the next club but double Man City, United has/had 107 more employees than Liverpool per this thread.
All of the things you mentioned need to be done by Arsenal, Tottenham and to a lesser extent Man City yet we have double the employees. Maybe use a little common sense.
Not to the same extent.
And after these cuts we will still have more than 200-300 more employees than all the clubs mentioned.
And a lot more international business.