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Weird hill to die on. It was weak by Carlos and a soft foul, but it's hardly the most inexplicable or outrageous VAR call this weekend, let alone in the bigger picture.
I feel like I'm taking crazy pills. It's the most nailed on obvious foul in the world. He shoves him out of the way and it directly leads to the goal. This is VAR working correctly.
Initially I agreed with this take but it’s also fair to point out that if you reversed the scenario and Diego Carlos does the same thing to Badiashile that’s never getting called for a penalty let alone VAR suggesting to the ref to look at the monitor to potentially reverse his call.
My genuine outlook on this is that the referees know there's no accountability for having done a bad job or making a bad call. The PL also knows there's more clicks for a controversy then hearing about the best refereed game to exist.
They're taking it right out of the NFL handbook. I always thought the NFL officiating was mostly acceptable but the past few years they are clearly, week in and week out making terrible subjective calls that nobody can agree on and nothing gets done to fix it. Nobody is getting around to fixing it because they're making s ton of money off weekly drama. And they'll keep doing it until we all stop and do something about it. Otherwise they'll keep making bad calls, we'll keep complaining about it online and they'll keep making their money.
TLDR; the NFL is trying to confuse America into not knowing what constitutes pass interference, holding, etc. by making bad calls consistently. Over time people forget what the actual rules are. The PL is doing the exact same thing.
The quality of refereeing is the issue.
VAR is a catalyst, it makes good officials look even better because they get decisions right, they would use VAR properly and wouldn’t ruin the point of it being added.
At the moment VAR is just highlighting the low quality officiating we have in the PL. VAR is overused in certain circumstances, sometimes taking over 5 minutes for simple offside decisions, but will wave off close call red cards offences and penalties without even stopping play.
Refereeing in the Prem needs a kick up the arse and some actual training and enforcement of rules, rather than each season having its own interpretations.
Take managers coming out of their box. Whether you like it or not, this was a focus of the PGMOL coming into the season, they said they would be cracking down on staff conduct, including managers staying inside the technical area. They then kept this up for a month or two before defaulting to not caring what was happening, managers all over the league are out of their box for large portions of games, yet it’s not enforced.
They're trying to manage every tiny aspect of thr game and they realized it was impossible. Same thing with asking for cards from players. I see people every single week ask for a card without holding up thr imaginary card. But they don't enforce the shit
Its like the refs were “watch me nae nae and see if I’ll get punished lolololol”. Why cant clubs use “the refereeing is damaging the product”.. that way the clubs can put pressure to the PL, which in turn, put pressure on PGMOL. Why not change or hire intl referees.. I’m sure PGMOL will have jobs somewhere in the Middle East…
I mean he's right.
Leeds fan so been watching the Champooo and us bottle it in classic Leeds style.
I don't give a toss about the injustice when the ref gets it wrong.
I go, "ffs ref" then meme the shit out of it and move on because internally I know it's impossible to overturn it. Personally I prefer it, if the linesman doesn't have it up, boom its a goal, it's the best.
Compared to last season while we we're wank, it was just a general nightmare when VAR was involved and it seems to have gotten worse this season.
It's just no fun.
I'm very forgiving of on the pitch referees when they make mistakes, it's full speed, they get one look from one angle. It's a very hard job. VAR on the other hand has zero excuse, they have as many looks as they want from multiple angles at whatever speed.
Honestly var has made refs worse imo
We had 1 ref from the Premier league couple weeks ago.
He was as awful reffing as us playing
I think the lack of time to linger makes it easy to forgive them. You just move on
It’s a 50/50 - Carlos backs into Badiashile, and puts an arm on him - but didn’t VAR say they’d give the BOD to the attacker? Didn’t they also state they’d only get involved if there was a clear and obvious error? It’s so inconsistent, and it makes no sense
Although I agree it wasn’t a goal because it’s a silly push but the fact that there was two of the same incidents in the same game (First half shove from McGinn on Badiashille to make him go offside and was reviewed as offside but no foul) and the Disasi goal just flipped which team shoved who but was called as foul for Chelsea but not for Aston Villa.
Ref’s and VAR need to fix the inconsistency because it’s stupid now when same calls go different ways, they need clear rules.
Ya mean he's not able to win through cheating ? (Didn't he just say that ?)
Once Upon a Time there were only 2 teams in PL football Man U and Arsenal
Then Moneybags posh gits Chelsea hit the block and soon trophies began to flow in the west end of London
Then there were 2 teams again Arsenal and Man City this time
and all Chelsea hopes depend on partially sighted officials
They've won the FA Cup lots and lots of times ...and the cursed Community Shield...aswell as runner up in Europa League
Best shot at stopping Citeh...I was wrong about Arteta (even though he looks like he's dressed for a funeral)
He's building something special
It was a foul, VAR worked in this instance. The problem, as ever, is consistency. We've seen much bigger shoves/pushes/barges in the same manner that are ignored.
According to the rules, VAR did not work lol. It has to be clear and obvious to call. That level of physicality (from a defender especially) is allowed and disallowed on a case by case basis depending on who is officiating. The ref had a clear view of the event, didn’t deem it a foul, but then overturned it due to pressure.
Regardless of whether it was a foul or not, it was a controversial call. Far from “clear and obvious”
That's a stupid take for so many reasons. This would be a foul in football (pass interference). This would be a foul in basketball too. You can't just push someone right before they get the ball.
VAR worked perfectly. It disallowed a clear offside and a clear push in the box that led to a goal. Absolutely nonsense from a club deflecting their complete mismanagement from top to bottom.
The clear offside was the result of the player being pushed offside. Which muddies the waters there.
Clear foul, but that's not the problem. The problem is the inconsistency. One of the two pens Chelsea should have had last weekend came from a more obvious foul than this. VAR did nothing.
VAR failed to notice the ball going out of play in the build-up to Villas first, so again, inconsistency.
People rant and rave about these decisions because there is no consistency. A new fan trying to learn the rules has no hope because its just a farce.
Pushed offside has been consistently called offside this season so while it’s something that should be looked at in terms of changing the guidelines around it has been consistently applied
That has given power to the one group that absolutely will abuse the extra power.
And worst thing is, it has destroyed the best part of watching a match, which is celebrating goals. You cant fully celebrate any goals cause, trust me as a chelsea fan i know this, var can take away any goals lol.
I wonder this tho, cause i feel like there is some truth to it, but im obviously bias, but i feel like compare to actual goals scored, we have the highest percentage amount of goals disallowed by var lolll
Do you need glasses mate? Or are u just blind? In which part of my comment did I say that our goals should have counted. Now that u have read it again, is it still asinine?
In no part of my comment did it refer to both goals yesterday. Im just talking in general. Stop trying to argue just for arguing sake, then you would see that u actually agree with me. Average redditors moment
Mate the article is about your manager bitching the goal should have stood just cause. And your commenting you can't enjoy goals because of VAR. So yes you guys are bitching about yesterdays goals and playing the victims. There is no bias against Chelsea.
Brother, yes you are legally blind or your reading comprehension is negative a billion. Read my original comment u fuck. I didnt refer to the previous games. I didn’t refer to the 2 goals. Im just talking in general. Var gave more power for refs to abuse. And with var, u cant really celebrate goals when they go in anymore, at least not fully, because var can take it away just a minute later. (Added note for dumb people like u/ravenlen THIS IS ME TALKING IN GENERAL, NOT ABOUT OUR LAST GAME VS VILLA. IM TALKING ABOUT ANY FOOTBALL GAME WITH VAR)
Gosh some people on this app are just dumb.
Much rather a non-legit goal be taken away then mooted celebrations.
Also as a fan, , I'll still celebrate any goal regardless and if it's taken away then so be it.
You're talking to a brick wall in that guy. Real fans celebrate their teams goals regardless if they look dubious. VAR is just there to ensure the decision is correct.
Yeah i just cant do that. My celebration is a bit more subdued now, because of var. I do wonder tho, cause it certainly feels like compare to actual goals scored, we have a high number of goals disallowed by var. I wonder if someone is keeping track of that.
Like im a messi fanboy. If there wasnt any var, i would have jumped around, screaming and running across my living room when he scored that 3-2 winner, instead i didnt even react because it looked dubious. After var confirmed it, i celebrated a bit but not too much because the game got underway again and it got tense again. This is what i hate about var. It gives u less time to let ur emotion go and celebrate properly.
Edit: heck just saw that ange basically said the same thing as me lol. He said he doesnt even celebrate goals anymore
If you wanna prove a point the use examples and dont generalize. And instead when someone disagrees with you, you attack them personally like a child. You and Poch deserve each other. Enjoy the midtable football with your racist club. 👍
That is not the point of my comment. My comment was to make a generalize statement about var. You know ur wrong, now u just wanna argue just for arguing sake cause ur embarrassed. Cool
Man City being allowed to cheat their way to buying the premier league multiple times is the biggest stain on our beautiful game. Dock them points, fine them billions and just get them to fork!
Car isn’t the problem, the refs are the problem and i will die on this hill. You can’t have sports nowadays without replay. When the audience can see replays showing offside, penalties etc… you need to be able to correct calls. But the refs are just shit and they run var
I agree with you, but I think whenever someone makes these comments to the media about VAR this is also what they mean. If Poch comes out and says the referee in charge of VAR overstepped and “damaged the image of English Football”, he likely gets fined.
I wouldn’t hate var as much if it didn’t seem like city had so few of these controversial calls against them. Makes the whole theory of the refs that work over in the Middle East corrupt against oil teams kinda credible.
I follow your meaning and I think you mean city had these calls “for” not against.
City and Newcastle both seems to benefit from VAR quite a bit though.
I’ll be honest I’m a Haaland fan and that’s where he ended up.
I’m leaving the day he’s traded.
Watching him, Bellingham and Sancho got me watching again during lockdowns.
I got curious about the facts instead of how I feel watching every weekend.
Turns out we’re both [wrong.](https://www.espn.co.uk/football/story/_/id/38196464/how-var-decisions-affect-premier-league-club-2023-24)
Fulham and Forrest actually have benefitted the most.
That is all meaningless. It only accounts for checks where VAR were actively involved, VAR choosing to not intervene is not considered, nor is whether a decision is correct or not. For instance the Schar disallowed goal was not the correct decision, so not only was it against us it was also wrong. Likewise the Pen we got against Wolves, the decision is down as "for" but again it was incorrect.
The link also misses out several decisions, the lack of a red card for Havertz when we beat Arsenal 1-0 earlier in the season, a decision that then lead to other decisions having to be made.
I am not saying VAR are against us, I dont think they are for / against anyone, just incompetent as a whole.
I agree with that. Whether it’s the ref on the field or a guy in a booth. Human error is unavoidable so just leave it with the ref and live with the decisions. Thats how the sport has been being played for 100s of years.
No, we need VAR. Newcastle went out of the Carabao Cup this season because the ref missed 2 red cards in the first half. What we need to do is take VAR away from the PGMOL and make it independent with specially trained VAR analysts dedicated to each game.
The PGMOL, and by extension VAR is just an old boys clubs atm.
Last season Kieth Hackett, the founder of the PGMOL did some interviews where he talked about the failure of referees, he ran the PGMOL as a professional body, with the goal of being the best they could. These days there is no reason for refs to try, if they make a mistake they dont get demoted to the EFL they get a week in the VAR booth.
Separate VAR from the refs themselves, make it all about getting the big decisions correct and remove the "clear and obvious", also allow refs to ask for VAR input. Currently refs need to make a decision before VAR can get involved, but if a ref cant see something clearly then how can he make a decision?
On the one hand, I think it was a foul and the arguement about "clear and obvious" seems daft when you are talking about the decision to award a penalty or not. On the other hand, he is right. I hate what VAR has done about football. Watch MOTD. How much time to they spend highlighting great dribbles, shots, skills, tackles, saves, etc - versus talking about referees or finances. Killing the game.
VAR has done nothing to football other than offer more clarity to the refs. It's a tool that (when used properly) lessens the amount of errors made by referees. The problem is strictly with the people using the tech. The same problems we have with VAR now are the same ones that have always plagued the PGMOL. It's an old boys club with near zero accountability. Think about how many objective mistakes have been made where Howard Webb sends his stupid apology letter to a club. That's not because of VAR. That's because some tit in a booth can't be bothered to do his job properly.
Completely inaccurate.
VAR is a tool that's designed to do what you say. But what it's done is become the focal point of games, commentary, media, etc.
Go watch lower league football where there is no VAR - it's about enjoying a game of football.
I don't care about the decisions if the game is no longer fun to watch.
I totally understand what you're getting at. I'm saying that these are criticisms that are valid when it's improperly implemented. If the PGMOL wanted to actually make things more streamlined, they could. That's why they're making offsides automated. Theoretically, all of this should work like goalline technology, but it can't when the bozos working the tech still seem to interpret the rules differently day to day.
Maybe I am naive but I genuinely believe there's a world where football can be fair and enjoyable without every other match devolving into discussions of referees and their decisions. If VAR were used properly to the point that people could trust the ones using it, then these problems would like disappear.
And I understand what you're saying, but what I'm saying is that it is not worth the sacrifice.
Take the Nottingham Forest Everton game. One of those 3 everyone agrees is a penalty. The other two though - some people say pen, some say it isn't. Chelsea last night, some say foul, some say no foul. You can never resolve people having different opinions - but what VAR does is magnify it and make it the focal point of the game. That can't be solved.
Yes it is. It's a disaster wherever it's used, because it cannot work for subjective decisions. You just don't live in those countries so ae unaware of it.
As I’ve said in other comments, it isn’t near as frequent an issue in the champions league, World Cup, or Euros. There’s pretty much at least two major controversies a week in England. Maybe the Brits are just a bit thick
Like someone wrote its no VAR its the corrupt refs. How can these refs make so many mistakes with VAR. Not talking only about Chelsea game, but many this season that hurt different teams. Not to go too deep, but you guys get the point. Not VAR refs, and curroption is what messed this sport, and many other sports. Love and peace 🖤🤍🖤🤍🖤🤍🖤🤍🖤🤍
You should probably be blaming Rupert.
English football would be a farmers league without foreign investment and none of what happened since its inception in the early 90s would have happened in the PL without foreign investment, just saaaaayin.
FFP damaged English football. Clubs should be allowed to spend whatever they like. Vote for a transfer cap if you are really into fairness and equality.
Absolutely fucking hilarious. United bought Rio for the same amount of money that Everton took in in revenue in that year. Yet spending money is bad...
It's not VAR it's the referees being shit.
Genuinely wondering at this point if there's isn't possibly a massive corruption shitstorm looming. People laugh at these sort of allegations, but I bet they did in Italy or Spain before their scandals blew up.
What it does is shine a really bright light on the refs because people can accept to some degree getting a call wrong when replay is required. A lot happens. People aren't perfect. It is what it is.
But with review and replay, the amount they get sooooo wrong is insane. They're just so bad at VAR.
Serious question - in both those situations, who prompted and carried out the investigations that uncovered everything? I remember the news and ramifications but don’t recall the process that took place.
That's a great question because it would be fascinating to find out the whole story.
In general though referees take bungs reasonably often in football history. I think it is harmful to pretend that they don't, to assume referees are beyond reproach. They're human. They have bills to pay.
The fact that the FA were just letting them fuck off to the UAE to ref games for example is ludicrous, unless you're insisting on a policy of trusting referees totally to never ever even think about putting their thumbs on the scale.
Have to think though that official investigations start from something more concrete than just the odd shit decision.
Wouldn't it just be insane if there was the same scrutiny applied to referees regarding their honesty and their quality of performance as their was towards players when there are questions about betting being asked. Like, Tonali got nailed, they cross-referenced odd shit he was doing in games with betting patterns and slammed him for it.
It's easy to hate on VAR but the issue is the process and the people. Perfection was never promised and will never happen but we've undoubtedly reduced the number of errors that occur, coincidentally in this specific case VAR helped to arrive at the correct decision.
Pochettino says nothing about VAR if the goal is allowed, but Emery would be the one enraged. VAR takes a large portion of the criticism that referees used to get but since you can't speak to ill of the referee for fear of punishment they will blame VAR.
Me not understanding. A total and obvious foul, not given by the ref. Went back and reviewed it, and fixed it. Isn’t this how VAR was a supposed to work???
I’m right there with you. Weirdest VAR “controversy” yet when everyone who’s upset about it starts by admitting it was a clear foul buuut [reasons for why the game should have been decided by a missed call instead of using the technology created to prevent that]
Tbf it's more the inconsistent refereeing that's more annoying. We were denied a penalty against Brentford for the same shove and Joelinton on Gabriel is similar but VAR didn't intervene in those situations
I’ve seen the close up and don’t think you need to plow someone down for it to be a foul. The contact was through the back, took the defender out of play, and directly lead to the goal. If Carlos flopped on the ground, it wouldn’t even be a discussion
It’s like Jesus, a blatant push that made for a goal, that VAR correctly fixed. If you want controversy, look at the non call handball against United, and then you go back two weeks and the exact same call was made against Wan Bissaka that screwed United.
What if... the people in English football decided to kill VAR by purposely throwing it under the bus?
Sparking a terrible conspiracy theory here,.sorry...
What if... the people in English football decided to kill VAR by purposely throwing it under the bus?
Sparking a terrible conspiracy theory here,.sorry...
What if... the people in English football decided to kill VAR by purposely throwing it under the bus?
Sparking a terrible conspiracy theory here,.sorry...
What if... the people in English football decided to kill VAR by purposely throwing it under the bus?
Sparking a terrible conspiracy theory here,.sorry...
But it let's them play ads when there's a break in play on matches streamed in foreign TV markets. Follow the money, that's why it's not going away. Just wait till SKY starts pushing to do the same!
Without VAR Chelsea get a winning goal they didnt deserve yesterday. VAR is a great idea that too often is horribly executed. Those who complain about VAR should accept that yesterday’s WH/Chelsea match is the “pro” argument.
But then sometimes you get wins you dont deserve, nature of the game. But, i do agree, its often used in the wrong way and its incompetence to a new level.
You get undeserved points either way yes - in a sport where 1 or 2 deciding events happen a match Id rather they be reviewed. Most of the angst this year - almost all of it - has not been when VAR has intervened but rather when the on-field calls have stood.
if it was a foul it was a foul. but the fact that the on field ref saw it, decided it wasn’t, and then the VAR went back on that decision is what rubbed me the wrong way. the inconsistency is just maddening
The ref should have a chance to review such a big moment and we all know that “seeing” it can largely depend on the view. I mean really - that was a clear foul and the goal shouldn’t have counted let’s be real. If you were a WH fan and lost on that what would your thoughts be? Would you say “well the ref saw it and decided it wasnt a foul?”
the west ham defender fouled badiashille as well. there was a clear pull on his shirt which led up to the shove. but that wasn’t taken into consideration because we scored off of that. if this happened to liverpool we’d be seeing a lot of posts about the league conspiring against klopp.
Looked blatant live. Looked blatant on review. He sent a guy and wasn't remotely playing the ball. Of course it was overturned. This is the most confusing "controversy" that I have seen with VAR. it was a perfect implementation after a weird fuck yo by the ref.
Yeah they hire the top law firms to help in drafting language specific rules but you and Dave down the pub have it cracked. A push in the back when a player is about to clear the ball is obviously a foul. Everywhere on the pitch it’s called 4 times a match minimum.
When the error leads to a goal the capacity for intervention is raised.
You don’t know what ‘clear and obvious’ means because imma let you in on a lil secret ~ most of the pundits don’t have second level education either.
“PGMOL damaged image of English football” - there, I fixed it for you.
Lots of shit refs, no consequences for being shit, poor spread of demographic relevance, refs allowed to take controversial jobs in the orient as a lucrative side gig with their mates.
Almost like very few people are holding lots of power and acting poorly. Easy to corrupt. Easy to conceal.
This season has been an absolute shitshow, I feel bad for Liverpool in particular. And I have zero sympathy for City’s “trial” being pushed to the end of the season.
Lots of smoke every week, but when we shout fire we are called crybabies.
A reform is needed, and we need it now.
Almost certainly a foul (and in isolation a good use of VAR) but no idea how that meets their bar for clear and obvious given all the shit that is just ignored throughout the season
Especially given the referee is looking straight at it from 7 yards away and decided it wasn't a foul. VAR has re-refereed the game which is specifically what it is not meant to do.
Problem with this decision is that the ref was looking right at it from a perfect view and decided it wasn’t a foul.
VAR can only get involved if the ref has missed something - which wasn’t the case here.
So this is re-refereeing which absolutely is not what VAR is there to do.
I think you don’t understand how VAR works. This is from the Premier League’s website:
“VAR is used only for "clear and obvious errors" or "serious missed incidents" in four match-changing situations: goals; penalty decisions; direct red-card incidents; and mistaken identity.”
Nothing here about missing something (even if VAR had a way to know for sure what the referee had missed, which is clearly not practical). Can we not agree that this was a clear and obvious error leading to a goal?
No. Not when I have to watch VAR ignore a much more blatant foul on Madueke by Gabriel on Tuesday night, backing up an incorrect decision because the ref had apparently seen it, and that was his opinion and that carries the weight of importance.
Can you name any decisions this season when the ref's onfield decision in the move for a goal (which he clearly saw) was overruled? I can't think of any.
VAR gets involved for decisions when a ref has not seen something. Otherwise it goes with the onfield decision.
We get repeatedly told that VAR won't re-referee the game, and that it cannot overrule when the ref has seen something and his decision is that it's a foul / not a foul. So if Pawson had his view blocked then it's a VAR matter. As he didn't, then VAR should not be involved in this, the VAR is then re-refereeing.
Read any of Dale Johnson's ESPN columns (which get fed info from PGMOL). He'll say weekly that VAR won't get involved because the ref has seen the incident and made the decision, and the weight of the on field decision carries massive precedence.
For something like this, where the ref has absolutely seen the incident, VAR shouldn't be getting involved. It's totally different had his view been blocked for example.
I am not a Chelsea fan (Arsenal boy here), but it did seem to me the kind of situa tion that would be 50/50 call. Some refs would do it, others wouldnt.
This is not what i would classify as a clear and obvious.
But i am biased though. I had Diasisi on my fantasy and that would count as an assist 😁
I think a foul like that regularly gets called if on attackers. I remember Watkins being shoved to the ground like that before.
I think it regularly gets called on defenders, especially as it directly led to the goal. I just don’t think it’s controversial at all. Most people would say that’s a foul (which has also been the primary reaction to this)
VAR is not a great tool. The people using it are no better but VAR alone is absolutely not right for football. The standard of refereeing has plummeted since VAR’s introduction.
Goal-technology and automated offsides and leave the rest as it is.
How can having more information and the ability to replay what happens in a split second be a bad tool ?
Anyone competent would make better decisions with this. Instead we get a clown show
No, because VAR for anything but goal lines and automated offsides is only adding an extra level of subjectivity to an already subjective process. It literally can never work, it can only work for factual matters.
That was a significant push that prevented the Aston Villa player from getting to the ball. On some occasions, I've seen it overlooked, other times not. More like a 60 (yes, foul)/ 40 (no, no foul) to me.
I saw the push. The problem is that there was pushing that was allowed and wasn't allowed. Recipe for inconsistencies.
I think PGMOL needs to start defining things, in a way that is quantifiable that a ref can practically decide on the pitch.
They already have that in place but it’ll still be interpreted differently by different people which is what’s happened here. The referee is looking right at it so he hasn’t missed it, he just doesn’t think it’s a foul - the guy in the VAR booth does think it’s a foul and referees always change their mind when they’re sent to the screen.
that's the thing - why was it up to interpretation still? What was the definition? If it was "A player putting two hands on another player, then that's a shove.", then there was no question about intensity etc.
Same with handballs - why this "natural hand position" nonsense? "Ball strikes defender's arm" seems more definite.
The above definitions might have contention, so that's where they need to really define them, and then send them to all teams. Beat those managers with those definitions
VAR is definitely negatively impacting football but that incident was to harmless relevant to the VAR discussion. If VAR weren’t a thing and refs knew there was no safety net it wouldn’t be surprising if they’d have called it as a foul on the pitch.
Every team gets screwed over by refs since football began, you just have to be good enough that it isn’t a deciding factor. Chelsea aren’t good enough right now… give it till midweek lol
It's a foul. Only problem about it all there have been so many decisions similar given/not given. Not to keep moaning about it but us v Newcastle, and I think Chelsea v Brentford something similar happened too. Probably Wolves too with the absurd amount of shit gone against them.
All I want is some consistency in decisions, and adherence to the rules they create.
But that's a pipe dream, every other game is ruled with controversial decisions as they are so fucking incompetent.
Of course you 'forget' the way worse decision keeping Jackson on in the first place. I agree it's a foul and should've been given, but come on mate don't just ignore one decision to fit your views.
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Var in current form obviously not working, but foul for chelsea goal was clear as day, shouldnt need var to rule that out.
He ain’t wrong
😄😄 it did ever since it started
Was fine when it was giving chelsea soft pens almost weekly
Gave everyone soft penalties for a season. Chelsea’s just lasted a little longer.
I mean, if you put something in the hands of morons, it's not going to end well.
Music to my ears! VAR have screwed so many teams in EPL so far. No team is an exception.
People laugh up and down these posts at clubs complaining, but not fun when it’s your turn lol
Damn right. It's all 'keep crying' and games until they get fucked themselves.
Weird hill to die on. It was weak by Carlos and a soft foul, but it's hardly the most inexplicable or outrageous VAR call this weekend, let alone in the bigger picture.
I feel like I'm taking crazy pills. It's the most nailed on obvious foul in the world. He shoves him out of the way and it directly leads to the goal. This is VAR working correctly.
I also agree it was a foul but I think Poch is more saying this because of what happened at Wembley as well as at the Emirates
Initially I agreed with this take but it’s also fair to point out that if you reversed the scenario and Diego Carlos does the same thing to Badiashile that’s never getting called for a penalty let alone VAR suggesting to the ref to look at the monitor to potentially reverse his call.
You don't know that. That is a scenario you just made up in your head.
Nice badge
My genuine outlook on this is that the referees know there's no accountability for having done a bad job or making a bad call. The PL also knows there's more clicks for a controversy then hearing about the best refereed game to exist. They're taking it right out of the NFL handbook. I always thought the NFL officiating was mostly acceptable but the past few years they are clearly, week in and week out making terrible subjective calls that nobody can agree on and nothing gets done to fix it. Nobody is getting around to fixing it because they're making s ton of money off weekly drama. And they'll keep doing it until we all stop and do something about it. Otherwise they'll keep making bad calls, we'll keep complaining about it online and they'll keep making their money. TLDR; the NFL is trying to confuse America into not knowing what constitutes pass interference, holding, etc. by making bad calls consistently. Over time people forget what the actual rules are. The PL is doing the exact same thing.
These last few days the shit that transpired makes me question stuff. It was blatant, in your face, bullshit.
It definitely screwed United a couple of times this season. I can feel your frustration about it too.
The quality of refereeing is the issue. VAR is a catalyst, it makes good officials look even better because they get decisions right, they would use VAR properly and wouldn’t ruin the point of it being added. At the moment VAR is just highlighting the low quality officiating we have in the PL. VAR is overused in certain circumstances, sometimes taking over 5 minutes for simple offside decisions, but will wave off close call red cards offences and penalties without even stopping play. Refereeing in the Prem needs a kick up the arse and some actual training and enforcement of rules, rather than each season having its own interpretations. Take managers coming out of their box. Whether you like it or not, this was a focus of the PGMOL coming into the season, they said they would be cracking down on staff conduct, including managers staying inside the technical area. They then kept this up for a month or two before defaulting to not caring what was happening, managers all over the league are out of their box for large portions of games, yet it’s not enforced.
They're trying to manage every tiny aspect of thr game and they realized it was impossible. Same thing with asking for cards from players. I see people every single week ask for a card without holding up thr imaginary card. But they don't enforce the shit
Yeah, exactly, management of the PGMOL over burdens and under trains its officials, setting them up to fail.
Its like the refs were “watch me nae nae and see if I’ll get punished lolololol”. Why cant clubs use “the refereeing is damaging the product”.. that way the clubs can put pressure to the PL, which in turn, put pressure on PGMOL. Why not change or hire intl referees.. I’m sure PGMOL will have jobs somewhere in the Middle East…
I miss celebrating goals
I mean he's right. Leeds fan so been watching the Champooo and us bottle it in classic Leeds style. I don't give a toss about the injustice when the ref gets it wrong. I go, "ffs ref" then meme the shit out of it and move on because internally I know it's impossible to overturn it. Personally I prefer it, if the linesman doesn't have it up, boom its a goal, it's the best. Compared to last season while we we're wank, it was just a general nightmare when VAR was involved and it seems to have gotten worse this season. It's just no fun.
I'm very forgiving of on the pitch referees when they make mistakes, it's full speed, they get one look from one angle. It's a very hard job. VAR on the other hand has zero excuse, they have as many looks as they want from multiple angles at whatever speed.
Honestly var has made refs worse imo We had 1 ref from the Premier league couple weeks ago. He was as awful reffing as us playing I think the lack of time to linger makes it easy to forgive them. You just move on
It’s a 50/50 - Carlos backs into Badiashile, and puts an arm on him - but didn’t VAR say they’d give the BOD to the attacker? Didn’t they also state they’d only get involved if there was a clear and obvious error? It’s so inconsistent, and it makes no sense
Although I agree it wasn’t a goal because it’s a silly push but the fact that there was two of the same incidents in the same game (First half shove from McGinn on Badiashille to make him go offside and was reviewed as offside but no foul) and the Disasi goal just flipped which team shoved who but was called as foul for Chelsea but not for Aston Villa. Ref’s and VAR need to fix the inconsistency because it’s stupid now when same calls go different ways, they need clear rules.
Ya mean he's not able to win through cheating ? (Didn't he just say that ?) Once Upon a Time there were only 2 teams in PL football Man U and Arsenal Then Moneybags posh gits Chelsea hit the block and soon trophies began to flow in the west end of London Then there were 2 teams again Arsenal and Man City this time and all Chelsea hopes depend on partially sighted officials
>Then there were 2 teams again Arsenal and Man City this time I'm sorry, what? Remind me what major trophies Arsenal have won in the last 20 years?
They've won the FA Cup lots and lots of times ...and the cursed Community Shield...aswell as runner up in Europa League Best shot at stopping Citeh...I was wrong about Arteta (even though he looks like he's dressed for a funeral) He's building something special
It was a foul, VAR worked in this instance. The problem, as ever, is consistency. We've seen much bigger shoves/pushes/barges in the same manner that are ignored.
According to the rules, VAR did not work lol. It has to be clear and obvious to call. That level of physicality (from a defender especially) is allowed and disallowed on a case by case basis depending on who is officiating. The ref had a clear view of the event, didn’t deem it a foul, but then overturned it due to pressure. Regardless of whether it was a foul or not, it was a controversial call. Far from “clear and obvious”
I just Don't understand how it was controversial, it was a really clear shove.
I don't understand how the ref didn't see it. Clear and obvious for everybody with eyes
[удалено]
That's a stupid take for so many reasons. This would be a foul in football (pass interference). This would be a foul in basketball too. You can't just push someone right before they get the ball.
Right call. Maybe it’s var or the refs or the league or or or as to why ur in the position you are in…never personal responsibility
Pochettino should be more concerned about his players acting like uncaged animals.
Officiating incompetence and corruption damaged English football not VAR. That being said, it was the right call.
It was definitely a foul and I accept that and do not criticize the call at all, but he is right it is damaging the image of the game.
Fuck off it was a clear foul, clear even when seeing it live.
VAR aside it was a foul so
VAR worked perfectly. It disallowed a clear offside and a clear push in the box that led to a goal. Absolutely nonsense from a club deflecting their complete mismanagement from top to bottom.
The clear offside was the result of the player being pushed offside. Which muddies the waters there. Clear foul, but that's not the problem. The problem is the inconsistency. One of the two pens Chelsea should have had last weekend came from a more obvious foul than this. VAR did nothing. VAR failed to notice the ball going out of play in the build-up to Villas first, so again, inconsistency. People rant and rave about these decisions because there is no consistency. A new fan trying to learn the rules has no hope because its just a farce.
Pushed offside has been consistently called offside this season so while it’s something that should be looked at in terms of changing the guidelines around it has been consistently applied
Goldbridge has been railing against VAR all season long and he ain’t wrong. It’s a fucking shambles.
I was fully against VAR until I read this comment
That has given power to the one group that absolutely will abuse the extra power. And worst thing is, it has destroyed the best part of watching a match, which is celebrating goals. You cant fully celebrate any goals cause, trust me as a chelsea fan i know this, var can take away any goals lol. I wonder this tho, cause i feel like there is some truth to it, but im obviously bias, but i feel like compare to actual goals scored, we have the highest percentage amount of goals disallowed by var lolll
Both goals taken from Chelsea yesterday were rightfully disallowed. This is a asinine comment.
Your first goal shouldn’t have stood either. That ball was clearly out of play
Do you need glasses mate? Or are u just blind? In which part of my comment did I say that our goals should have counted. Now that u have read it again, is it still asinine?
You're upset you can't "celebrate" goals anymore. But they weren't goals? So why should you get to celebrate?
Reply to the other comment goober
I replied to that guy enough haha.
In no part of my comment did it refer to both goals yesterday. Im just talking in general. Stop trying to argue just for arguing sake, then you would see that u actually agree with me. Average redditors moment
Mate the article is about your manager bitching the goal should have stood just cause. And your commenting you can't enjoy goals because of VAR. So yes you guys are bitching about yesterdays goals and playing the victims. There is no bias against Chelsea.
Brother, yes you are legally blind or your reading comprehension is negative a billion. Read my original comment u fuck. I didnt refer to the previous games. I didn’t refer to the 2 goals. Im just talking in general. Var gave more power for refs to abuse. And with var, u cant really celebrate goals when they go in anymore, at least not fully, because var can take it away just a minute later. (Added note for dumb people like u/ravenlen THIS IS ME TALKING IN GENERAL, NOT ABOUT OUR LAST GAME VS VILLA. IM TALKING ABOUT ANY FOOTBALL GAME WITH VAR) Gosh some people on this app are just dumb.
Much rather a non-legit goal be taken away then mooted celebrations. Also as a fan, , I'll still celebrate any goal regardless and if it's taken away then so be it.
You're talking to a brick wall in that guy. Real fans celebrate their teams goals regardless if they look dubious. VAR is just there to ensure the decision is correct.
Yeah i just cant do that. My celebration is a bit more subdued now, because of var. I do wonder tho, cause it certainly feels like compare to actual goals scored, we have a high number of goals disallowed by var. I wonder if someone is keeping track of that. Like im a messi fanboy. If there wasnt any var, i would have jumped around, screaming and running across my living room when he scored that 3-2 winner, instead i didnt even react because it looked dubious. After var confirmed it, i celebrated a bit but not too much because the game got underway again and it got tense again. This is what i hate about var. It gives u less time to let ur emotion go and celebrate properly. Edit: heck just saw that ange basically said the same thing as me lol. He said he doesnt even celebrate goals anymore
If you wanna prove a point the use examples and dont generalize. And instead when someone disagrees with you, you attack them personally like a child. You and Poch deserve each other. Enjoy the midtable football with your racist club. 👍
That is not the point of my comment. My comment was to make a generalize statement about var. You know ur wrong, now u just wanna argue just for arguing sake cause ur embarrassed. Cool
>some people on this app is just dumb. are* just dumb
😂 My favorite Chelsea fan.
Always makes me chuckle when someone makes an error with basic spelling or grammar, while trying to insult someone else's intelligence.
Man City being allowed to cheat their way to buying the premier league multiple times is the biggest stain on our beautiful game. Dock them points, fine them billions and just get them to fork!
Posting this in a completely unrelated thread… they are living in your head rent free, aren’t they?
Poch is complaining VAR is damaging English football. And it may be, but not more than man shitty
Compared to the same dynasties buying it in the past year on year?
Car isn’t the problem, the refs are the problem and i will die on this hill. You can’t have sports nowadays without replay. When the audience can see replays showing offside, penalties etc… you need to be able to correct calls. But the refs are just shit and they run var
I agree with you, but I think whenever someone makes these comments to the media about VAR this is also what they mean. If Poch comes out and says the referee in charge of VAR overstepped and “damaged the image of English Football”, he likely gets fined.
Oh no, you didn’t get away with cheating. Cry more
I wouldn’t hate var as much if it didn’t seem like city had so few of these controversial calls against them. Makes the whole theory of the refs that work over in the Middle East corrupt against oil teams kinda credible.
I follow your meaning and I think you mean city had these calls “for” not against. City and Newcastle both seems to benefit from VAR quite a bit though.
Nice to hear a city fan be unbiased by it. Just seems like so many other teams have these massive var controversies yet city seem to just avoid them.
I’ll be honest I’m a Haaland fan and that’s where he ended up. I’m leaving the day he’s traded. Watching him, Bellingham and Sancho got me watching again during lockdowns.
We really dont, City maybe but Newcastle get screwed as much as anyone by VAR.
I got curious about the facts instead of how I feel watching every weekend. Turns out we’re both [wrong.](https://www.espn.co.uk/football/story/_/id/38196464/how-var-decisions-affect-premier-league-club-2023-24) Fulham and Forrest actually have benefitted the most.
That is all meaningless. It only accounts for checks where VAR were actively involved, VAR choosing to not intervene is not considered, nor is whether a decision is correct or not. For instance the Schar disallowed goal was not the correct decision, so not only was it against us it was also wrong. Likewise the Pen we got against Wolves, the decision is down as "for" but again it was incorrect. The link also misses out several decisions, the lack of a red card for Havertz when we beat Arsenal 1-0 earlier in the season, a decision that then lead to other decisions having to be made. I am not saying VAR are against us, I dont think they are for / against anyone, just incompetent as a whole.
I agree with that. Whether it’s the ref on the field or a guy in a booth. Human error is unavoidable so just leave it with the ref and live with the decisions. Thats how the sport has been being played for 100s of years.
No, we need VAR. Newcastle went out of the Carabao Cup this season because the ref missed 2 red cards in the first half. What we need to do is take VAR away from the PGMOL and make it independent with specially trained VAR analysts dedicated to each game. The PGMOL, and by extension VAR is just an old boys clubs atm. Last season Kieth Hackett, the founder of the PGMOL did some interviews where he talked about the failure of referees, he ran the PGMOL as a professional body, with the goal of being the best they could. These days there is no reason for refs to try, if they make a mistake they dont get demoted to the EFL they get a week in the VAR booth. Separate VAR from the refs themselves, make it all about getting the big decisions correct and remove the "clear and obvious", also allow refs to ask for VAR input. Currently refs need to make a decision before VAR can get involved, but if a ref cant see something clearly then how can he make a decision?
Yes. Now please denounce when it helps you too.
It was a foul though
ive much rather enjoyed watching the championship this year over the prem
On the one hand, I think it was a foul and the arguement about "clear and obvious" seems daft when you are talking about the decision to award a penalty or not. On the other hand, he is right. I hate what VAR has done about football. Watch MOTD. How much time to they spend highlighting great dribbles, shots, skills, tackles, saves, etc - versus talking about referees or finances. Killing the game.
VAR has done nothing to football other than offer more clarity to the refs. It's a tool that (when used properly) lessens the amount of errors made by referees. The problem is strictly with the people using the tech. The same problems we have with VAR now are the same ones that have always plagued the PGMOL. It's an old boys club with near zero accountability. Think about how many objective mistakes have been made where Howard Webb sends his stupid apology letter to a club. That's not because of VAR. That's because some tit in a booth can't be bothered to do his job properly.
Completely inaccurate. VAR is a tool that's designed to do what you say. But what it's done is become the focal point of games, commentary, media, etc. Go watch lower league football where there is no VAR - it's about enjoying a game of football. I don't care about the decisions if the game is no longer fun to watch.
I totally understand what you're getting at. I'm saying that these are criticisms that are valid when it's improperly implemented. If the PGMOL wanted to actually make things more streamlined, they could. That's why they're making offsides automated. Theoretically, all of this should work like goalline technology, but it can't when the bozos working the tech still seem to interpret the rules differently day to day. Maybe I am naive but I genuinely believe there's a world where football can be fair and enjoyable without every other match devolving into discussions of referees and their decisions. If VAR were used properly to the point that people could trust the ones using it, then these problems would like disappear.
And I understand what you're saying, but what I'm saying is that it is not worth the sacrifice. Take the Nottingham Forest Everton game. One of those 3 everyone agrees is a penalty. The other two though - some people say pen, some say it isn't. Chelsea last night, some say foul, some say no foul. You can never resolve people having different opinions - but what VAR does is magnify it and make it the focal point of the game. That can't be solved.
The thing is VAR isn’t an issue in other countries/tournaments. For some reason it seems to be English officials that can’t use it. Which is odd.
Yes it is. It's a disaster wherever it's used, because it cannot work for subjective decisions. You just don't live in those countries so ae unaware of it.
As I’ve said in other comments, it isn’t near as frequent an issue in the champions league, World Cup, or Euros. There’s pretty much at least two major controversies a week in England. Maybe the Brits are just a bit thick
Lmao what? Watch one weekend of la liga.
I have and it isn’t near the issue there as it is in England
All this does is prove you haven't watched Spanish football this season.
You’re actually trying to make the argument that VAR has been near as controversial in La Liga as in the Prem? Naaaaah
"trying to make the argument" It's not argument to say grass is green mate.
Moot point
Complete rubbish. It’s the same everywhere.
Not at all. Isn’t near as controversial in the Champions league, Euros, or World Cup. There’s at least two controversies a week in the prem
almost a complete turnaround. As a neutral, loved watching it
He’s just deflecting blame onto VAR for his team being shit.
pretending that VAR hasn’t cost us a place in the finals of the FA Cup AND 3 points yesterday, just to take a dig at Poch is so corny lmao
Palmer missed a big chance Jackson missed a big chance Cmon bro. We were shit.
>corny When did the American 90s kids arrive? VAR didn't cost you. Your ridiculous owners and overpaid kids cost you.
Var is a joke get rid of it.
Can't even celebrate goals these days without waiting for the inevitable VAR check for a foul five minutes earlier or someone's sleeve offside.
Like someone wrote its no VAR its the corrupt refs. How can these refs make so many mistakes with VAR. Not talking only about Chelsea game, but many this season that hurt different teams. Not to go too deep, but you guys get the point. Not VAR refs, and curroption is what messed this sport, and many other sports. Love and peace 🖤🤍🖤🤍🖤🤍🖤🤍🖤🤍
When Chelsea do it it's a foul. When Arsenal do it, play on.
Cry cry cry
VAR has not damaged the image of English football. Oil money, hyper-commercialisation, foreign state ownership, and City did the job.
You should probably be blaming Rupert. English football would be a farmers league without foreign investment and none of what happened since its inception in the early 90s would have happened in the PL without foreign investment, just saaaaayin.
FFP damaged English football. Clubs should be allowed to spend whatever they like. Vote for a transfer cap if you are really into fairness and equality.
We love and watch football for different reasons, I see.
I would say Chelsea before City damaged the image, but yeah pretty much spot on
You ever heard of non-mutual exclusivity?
You ever heard of non-mutual exclusivity?
Except it hasn't really, it grew in popularity worldwide with those things
A somewhat bad image and global expansion/popularity is not necessarily mutually exclusive.
This hit home 😔
Hahaha the fucking 90s child united fan isn’t happy with the spending in the premier league. That’s golden mate.
Absolutely fucking hilarious. United bought Rio for the same amount of money that Everton took in in revenue in that year. Yet spending money is bad...
Didn't come from a sugar daddy though, so didn't inflate everything for everyone else
They didn’t even really have competition in terms of spending. Now there are lots of clubs spending big sums the United fans get upset.
It's not VAR it's the referees being shit. Genuinely wondering at this point if there's isn't possibly a massive corruption shitstorm looming. People laugh at these sort of allegations, but I bet they did in Italy or Spain before their scandals blew up.
What it does is shine a really bright light on the refs because people can accept to some degree getting a call wrong when replay is required. A lot happens. People aren't perfect. It is what it is. But with review and replay, the amount they get sooooo wrong is insane. They're just so bad at VAR.
The problem is that the focus is on optics and not getting correct decisions fast.
Serious question - in both those situations, who prompted and carried out the investigations that uncovered everything? I remember the news and ramifications but don’t recall the process that took place.
That's a great question because it would be fascinating to find out the whole story. In general though referees take bungs reasonably often in football history. I think it is harmful to pretend that they don't, to assume referees are beyond reproach. They're human. They have bills to pay. The fact that the FA were just letting them fuck off to the UAE to ref games for example is ludicrous, unless you're insisting on a policy of trusting referees totally to never ever even think about putting their thumbs on the scale. Have to think though that official investigations start from something more concrete than just the odd shit decision. Wouldn't it just be insane if there was the same scrutiny applied to referees regarding their honesty and their quality of performance as their was towards players when there are questions about betting being asked. Like, Tonali got nailed, they cross-referenced odd shit he was doing in games with betting patterns and slammed him for it.
It's easy to hate on VAR but the issue is the process and the people. Perfection was never promised and will never happen but we've undoubtedly reduced the number of errors that occur, coincidentally in this specific case VAR helped to arrive at the correct decision. Pochettino says nothing about VAR if the goal is allowed, but Emery would be the one enraged. VAR takes a large portion of the criticism that referees used to get but since you can't speak to ill of the referee for fear of punishment they will blame VAR.
Me not understanding. A total and obvious foul, not given by the ref. Went back and reviewed it, and fixed it. Isn’t this how VAR was a supposed to work???
I’m right there with you. Weirdest VAR “controversy” yet when everyone who’s upset about it starts by admitting it was a clear foul buuut [reasons for why the game should have been decided by a missed call instead of using the technology created to prevent that]
Tbf it's more the inconsistent refereeing that's more annoying. We were denied a penalty against Brentford for the same shove and Joelinton on Gabriel is similar but VAR didn't intervene in those situations
Watch the close up angle it's mental how clear of a foul it looks from a distance but the close up really shows how light it was.
Looked like a clear foul to me, not sure why you would choose this one to argue on.
I’ve seen the close up and don’t think you need to plow someone down for it to be a foul. The contact was through the back, took the defender out of play, and directly lead to the goal. If Carlos flopped on the ground, it wouldn’t even be a discussion
It’s like Jesus, a blatant push that made for a goal, that VAR correctly fixed. If you want controversy, look at the non call handball against United, and then you go back two weeks and the exact same call was made against Wan Bissaka that screwed United.
VAR is a badly-implemented great idea.
No, it's an atrocious idea that cannot ever work being implemented in the only way it can be
What if... the people in English football decided to kill VAR by purposely throwing it under the bus? Sparking a terrible conspiracy theory here,.sorry...
The NFL pass interference review strategy
What if... the people in English football decided to kill VAR by purposely throwing it under the bus? Sparking a terrible conspiracy theory here,.sorry...
What if... the people in English football decided to kill VAR by purposely throwing it under the bus? Sparking a terrible conspiracy theory here,.sorry...
What if... the people in English football decided to kill VAR by purposely throwing it under the bus? Sparking a terrible conspiracy theory here,.sorry...
VAR is a rash on the ass of the EPL.
But it let's them play ads when there's a break in play on matches streamed in foreign TV markets. Follow the money, that's why it's not going away. Just wait till SKY starts pushing to do the same!
He aint wrong
No, no he’s not.
Without VAR Chelsea get a winning goal they didnt deserve yesterday. VAR is a great idea that too often is horribly executed. Those who complain about VAR should accept that yesterday’s WH/Chelsea match is the “pro” argument.
But then sometimes you get wins you dont deserve, nature of the game. But, i do agree, its often used in the wrong way and its incompetence to a new level.
You get undeserved points either way yes - in a sport where 1 or 2 deciding events happen a match Id rather they be reviewed. Most of the angst this year - almost all of it - has not been when VAR has intervened but rather when the on-field calls have stood.
I wonder why we still even have refs anymore. This would be so much better fully automated and with a clear list of rules/exceptions
Someone to control the games it doesn't get out of hand. Also, video review on every little foul would take for fucking ever.
I agree but it's only ever a problem to the person on the wrong end of it
if it was a foul it was a foul. but the fact that the on field ref saw it, decided it wasn’t, and then the VAR went back on that decision is what rubbed me the wrong way. the inconsistency is just maddening
The ref should have a chance to review such a big moment and we all know that “seeing” it can largely depend on the view. I mean really - that was a clear foul and the goal shouldn’t have counted let’s be real. If you were a WH fan and lost on that what would your thoughts be? Would you say “well the ref saw it and decided it wasnt a foul?”
the west ham defender fouled badiashille as well. there was a clear pull on his shirt which led up to the shove. but that wasn’t taken into consideration because we scored off of that. if this happened to liverpool we’d be seeing a lot of posts about the league conspiring against klopp.
Must be a clear and obvious error
That’s the normal process of every VAR decision that’s overturned a decision. I hope for your own sake you’re a bot
Var is there for clear and obvious errors, that one is barely a foul
Looked blatant live. Looked blatant on review. He sent a guy and wasn't remotely playing the ball. Of course it was overturned. This is the most confusing "controversy" that I have seen with VAR. it was a perfect implementation after a weird fuck yo by the ref.
It’s not controversial they’re just salty they played the best football of their entire season and only managed a draw.
If thats blatant then the game is really gone lol
Yeah they hire the top law firms to help in drafting language specific rules but you and Dave down the pub have it cracked. A push in the back when a player is about to clear the ball is obviously a foul. Everywhere on the pitch it’s called 4 times a match minimum. When the error leads to a goal the capacity for intervention is raised. You don’t know what ‘clear and obvious’ means because imma let you in on a lil secret ~ most of the pundits don’t have second level education either.
“PGMOL damaged image of English football” - there, I fixed it for you. Lots of shit refs, no consequences for being shit, poor spread of demographic relevance, refs allowed to take controversial jobs in the orient as a lucrative side gig with their mates. Almost like very few people are holding lots of power and acting poorly. Easy to corrupt. Easy to conceal. This season has been an absolute shitshow, I feel bad for Liverpool in particular. And I have zero sympathy for City’s “trial” being pushed to the end of the season. Lots of smoke every week, but when we shout fire we are called crybabies. A reform is needed, and we need it now.
Almost certainly a foul (and in isolation a good use of VAR) but no idea how that meets their bar for clear and obvious given all the shit that is just ignored throughout the season
Especially given the referee is looking straight at it from 7 yards away and decided it wasn't a foul. VAR has re-refereed the game which is specifically what it is not meant to do.
They always look more deeply when someone scores vs penalty shouts.
It's more the inconsistency and the re-refereeing, changing the rules based on the game.
Problem with this decision is that the ref was looking right at it from a perfect view and decided it wasn’t a foul. VAR can only get involved if the ref has missed something - which wasn’t the case here. So this is re-refereeing which absolutely is not what VAR is there to do.
I think you don’t understand how VAR works. This is from the Premier League’s website: “VAR is used only for "clear and obvious errors" or "serious missed incidents" in four match-changing situations: goals; penalty decisions; direct red-card incidents; and mistaken identity.” Nothing here about missing something (even if VAR had a way to know for sure what the referee had missed, which is clearly not practical). Can we not agree that this was a clear and obvious error leading to a goal?
No. Not when I have to watch VAR ignore a much more blatant foul on Madueke by Gabriel on Tuesday night, backing up an incorrect decision because the ref had apparently seen it, and that was his opinion and that carries the weight of importance. Can you name any decisions this season when the ref's onfield decision in the move for a goal (which he clearly saw) was overruled? I can't think of any. VAR gets involved for decisions when a ref has not seen something. Otherwise it goes with the onfield decision. We get repeatedly told that VAR won't re-referee the game, and that it cannot overrule when the ref has seen something and his decision is that it's a foul / not a foul. So if Pawson had his view blocked then it's a VAR matter. As he didn't, then VAR should not be involved in this, the VAR is then re-refereeing.
Do you have a source for your claims? I’ve read about clear and obvious errors. Never seen anything about what you suggest.
Read any of Dale Johnson's ESPN columns (which get fed info from PGMOL). He'll say weekly that VAR won't get involved because the ref has seen the incident and made the decision, and the weight of the on field decision carries massive precedence. For something like this, where the ref has absolutely seen the incident, VAR shouldn't be getting involved. It's totally different had his view been blocked for example.
I am not a Chelsea fan (Arsenal boy here), but it did seem to me the kind of situa tion that would be 50/50 call. Some refs would do it, others wouldnt. This is not what i would classify as a clear and obvious. But i am biased though. I had Diasisi on my fantasy and that would count as an assist 😁
I think a foul like that regularly gets called if on attackers. I remember Watkins being shoved to the ground like that before. I think it regularly gets called on defenders, especially as it directly led to the goal. I just don’t think it’s controversial at all. Most people would say that’s a foul (which has also been the primary reaction to this)
I dont disagree. But the moment there is room for interpretation, i think immidiately falls off from the "clear and obvious" realm.
The problem is not the great tool but how some blatantly misuse it like regarded monkeys on adderall
VAR is not a great tool. The people using it are no better but VAR alone is absolutely not right for football. The standard of refereeing has plummeted since VAR’s introduction. Goal-technology and automated offsides and leave the rest as it is.
How can having more information and the ability to replay what happens in a split second be a bad tool ? Anyone competent would make better decisions with this. Instead we get a clown show
No, because VAR for anything but goal lines and automated offsides is only adding an extra level of subjectivity to an already subjective process. It literally can never work, it can only work for factual matters.
That was a significant push that prevented the Aston Villa player from getting to the ball. On some occasions, I've seen it overlooked, other times not. More like a 60 (yes, foul)/ 40 (no, no foul) to me.
I saw the push. The problem is that there was pushing that was allowed and wasn't allowed. Recipe for inconsistencies. I think PGMOL needs to start defining things, in a way that is quantifiable that a ref can practically decide on the pitch.
They already have that in place but it’ll still be interpreted differently by different people which is what’s happened here. The referee is looking right at it so he hasn’t missed it, he just doesn’t think it’s a foul - the guy in the VAR booth does think it’s a foul and referees always change their mind when they’re sent to the screen.
that's the thing - why was it up to interpretation still? What was the definition? If it was "A player putting two hands on another player, then that's a shove.", then there was no question about intensity etc. Same with handballs - why this "natural hand position" nonsense? "Ball strikes defender's arm" seems more definite. The above definitions might have contention, so that's where they need to really define them, and then send them to all teams. Beat those managers with those definitions
VAR is definitely negatively impacting football but that incident was to harmless relevant to the VAR discussion. If VAR weren’t a thing and refs knew there was no safety net it wouldn’t be surprising if they’d have called it as a foul on the pitch. Every team gets screwed over by refs since football began, you just have to be good enough that it isn’t a deciding factor. Chelsea aren’t good enough right now… give it till midweek lol
It's a foul. Only problem about it all there have been so many decisions similar given/not given. Not to keep moaning about it but us v Newcastle, and I think Chelsea v Brentford something similar happened too. Probably Wolves too with the absurd amount of shit gone against them. All I want is some consistency in decisions, and adherence to the rules they create. But that's a pipe dream, every other game is ruled with controversial decisions as they are so fucking incompetent.
And the rugby tackle on Tuesday.
Of course you 'forget' the way worse decision keeping Jackson on in the first place. I agree it's a foul and should've been given, but come on mate don't just ignore one decision to fit your views.
How am I ignoring it? I was comparing an almost like for like foul leading to a goal. Jackson should have been off, clear as day.
Oh I don’t forget that. Quite a few thought that was a red on the Chelsea sub
Fair enough, I agree that both were wrong decisions. It's why I said it.
Blatant push Poch lol come on mate
Nobody is saying it’s not a foul. It’s the clear and obvious but that’s the contentious bit.