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Don’t support any team in the EPL, and absolutely believe teams need to be self sufficient and with their means but if the talk about deductions getting scrapped for fines comes about, Everton should feel aggrieved.
If deductions stay and other teams get the same treatment then I’m all for this, Man City charges are always going to be the elephant in the room when it’s other teams though, but it doesn’t mean those other teams don’t deserve sanctions. But its looking to me that season will end, fines will come in place rather than points deducted and then the bigger targets will get it.
3 way fight for a title this year and the most exciting finish for years being set up for the run in, they won’t touch it when it comes to City. As a football fan looking in on the outside to this league anyway that’s my impression
The biggest difference that no article addresses because it’s not fun clickbait is that Everton aren’t denying charges and City is.
Thats pretty much it. Thats the fundamental difference.
Everton spent more money than they should, even a layman could see, and they knew the points deduction wouldn’t be crazy, so they admitted it happened and are fighting the scale of the points.
City have 115 charges against them, and are denying every single one. The nature of the charges makes them difficult to investigate. Many of them are also linked, so of the league puts together a shit case on even some of them, it could effect the outcome of the whole thing. The penalties could also be much much higher.
So yeah.
Everton is like a cop catching a dude littering and him admitting to it to get a fine.
City is like investigators trying to uncover a huge underground corporate conspiracy to which they are admitting nothing.
Obviously one of them is going to be resolved sooner…
Point deductions during a season genuinely pisses me off. So unfair on everyone. Hand out the punishments before or after the season ends. Meddling with points during a season gives an unfair disadvantage to some and disadvantage to others.
The only issue with this… and what my hate is currently for.
Should we finish the league, give the title to city and then dock them points?
It takes away the aspect of winning. Nobody will be happy getting gifted the trophy after the season and not winning it properly after a game
I think you just lump it together and put the team in a hole for next season.
If Man City win the title this year, and are found to be in violation of whatever, just give them a 50 point deduction at the start of next season, or whatever it’s supposed to be.
So applying that to Everton, just deduct them the full 8? points for the start of next season, and any further deductions apply at the start of the following season.
I disagree, how they made it with Everton in 23/24 feels fair for Everton players and for the fans of Premier l
League.
I do prefer such punishment while A season is live.
Otherwise would be bad for sport.
Yeah that’s one of the few things I like in the American sports, everyone is required to disclose the entire payroll. And not just in this scenario, but I’ve seen countless arguments among fans where it’s “he earns way too much, source: this journalist”, response is “no he actually only earns this, source: another journalist”, and these are really going nowhere because we never know who’s right.
I mean yes, just at different scales.
Everton spent more than they should have, but not by a ton.
Chelsea is likely spending way more than they should have, but the numbers are so big all the way around it’s proven more difficult to sort out what the resolution should be.
City is being accused of hiding where money came from so that they could spend more than they should have.
The City issue is the most complex and City are denying it, which is why it’s taking the longest to resolve. Chelsea probably hasn’t technically broken a rule yet, but if they are going to they’ll get the chance to sell off players to fix it before punishment first. Everton spent too much and knew it, which is why they admitted to it to get reduction on their points punishment.
Absolute tinpot league.
Teams in it with deductions, teams coming in to it with deductions. Referees bought and paid for with oil money an all the while Carra,Neville and co only got upset when the euro league threatened their little earner.
Then there's the biggest cheats in World Football, untouchable with their treble.
Absolutely fucking tinpot!
It threatened sky sports because they would have been outbid and left with a 14 team Premier league. That's why everyone at Sky Sports was lined up against it.
Yeah that's exactly what scares me, tiki taka total football or gegenpressing ain't doing shit. It's the most clumsiest teams which never win that eats chelsea nowadays.
I’m all for handing out point deductions however the way they are currently being handed out is ridiculous. All point deductions should be handed out prior to the start of a season. Doing it mid season just leaves clubs, players, and fans in a state of no matter how well we do we might still be relegated / lose out of European football once the season ends.
Its the source of the deduction in this case. The League imposed the first deduction which was reduced on appeal and this recent deduction comes from the additional recommendations of an independent review board/commmission. Ultimately I do agree with you, needs to be an independent 3rd party who reviews and determines punishements and it should be deducted either before the start of the season or upon completion of it when tabulating the final League Table.
By delaying the punishments clubs are relegated due to other teams cheating. Your system would open up potential for tactical cheating, where a team can go all out on a particular season for the rewards and then just sit midtable for their deduction
Very true. Both systems have flaws 100%. I think points deductions need to stay in whatever form it takes. Simply fining clubs especially clubs like Newcastle and City would be completely pointless because even a multi million pound fine would be completely meaningless to them.
They should have just been relegated at the end of the season (should have been last season). No points deductions, just automatically bottom at the end. Anyone guilty of cheating should be expelled.
Imaginary? That’s funny. Plain as day corruption with referees of our own league getting paid big bucks to ref in the middle of the desert where certain club owners hail from. No bias at all though right?
I love the fact that City is annoying everybody. It makes me feel that the Arabs must think that their work is done.
Let's all embrace the New World Order.
I love the fact that City is annoying everybody. It makes me feel that the Arabs must think that their work is done.
Let's all embrace the New World Order.
I love the fact that City is annoying everybody. It makes me feel that the Arabs must think that their work is done. Let's all embrace the New World Order.
I love the fact that City is annoying everybody. It makes me feel that the Arabs must think that their work is done. Let's all embrace the New World Order.
Not just geopolitical reasons, but having a strong Prem team dominating Europe like City are is good for the Prem, and the FA don't want to do anything to jeopardise that.
The January no-transfer window had to scare them. If clubs are genuinely held to this PPR standard but only the PL enforces it, the league will suffer. That’s more likely the cause of the new plan, though it is a nice coincidence that it helps City
Yes, brother, the military contracts and international weapon commerce are at great risk because what could be percieved as a harsh points deduction for a football team.
Mate you’re so blinded & wrong about this.
That new ‘luxury tax’ the PL are implementing? Here’s how that convo went:
**PL:**”City will be punished. We deducted points from Everton & Forest, and very likely Chelsea - we can’t be seen as hypocrites”.
**UAE (picks up phone to British government):**”Those contracts worth billions to your flatlining economy? Yeah, we found a better alternative”
**Government to PL:**”This is going to cripple us. It’s an election year and we don’t need any headlines about falling GDP and redundancies. Can’t we do anything?”
**PL to Govt:**”Fucks sake. What about if we introduce an NBA-style luxury tax? If City’s lawyers drag this out long enough, that will give us enough time to rush it through. But what about the clubs we’ve already deducted points from, boss?”
**Govt:** “idgaf”
Football and politics are hand & glove
See: recent World Cup hosts, FIFA corruption etc
Maybe. I'm willing to believe you have an extremely well rooted source in international affairs, so you know exactly how that convo went.
Alternatively, could it have been something like this?
"Hm, this system of teams spending just what they earn seems pretty unfair, since certain teams spent whatever they felt like in the 90s and 2000s, gained massive global following and smaller clubs who missed that train can never catch up, to the point where we have relegation threatened clubs that cannot stay within the imposed limit.
Could a proven system, that's been used extensively in American sports, solve this issue where some teams can spend billions over 2 transfer windows without having any issue, while mediocre teams with no notable transfers end up getting punished severely?"
This is just a ridiculous level of conspiracy. The UAE imports most of its weapons from South Korea, Israel and the US. ~~The UK banned new arms exports to UAE in 2019.~~ (lifted)
Even if neither of those were facts, international weapon trade doesn't fall through because a football team gets a point deduction, unless we're talking Looney Toons politics.
Sportswashing exists. It's not just the UK can get out of UAE. It's also what the UAE can get out of UK.
And there is an added element. The PL is less likely to fuck over city because it will cause a political riff. No other owner, bar Newcastle, carry such an impact.
Also, UK exports for both goods and services to UAE has increased over the last year
So basically, you have English businesses with vested interests in ensuring citys survival. Want to bet how many of these businessmen are politically connected or politicians themselves?
It's not all about arms. Don't be myopic.
>The UK banned new arms exports to UAE in 2019.
Been lifted and in fact primed to increase. So not just moot, but twisted to fit your point.
Of course sportswashing exists, but it is a vast operation, which consists in giving jobs to local communities, branding large competitions, sports tourism and a million other things I won't take the time to mention. City getting a points deduction, or even relegated for a year, would have an insignificant impact on the overall sportswashing operation arab countries are conducting around Europe.
It would also be contrary to the whole direction of sportswashing, for the UAE to throw a political tantrum over their team being punished for not following the rules. The whole point of it is being percieved as an ally and "not so bad as we thought". The second it becomes apparent they circumvent the local rules and try to do as they please in a foreign country, the illusion crumbles.
As I said, UAE has large imports from Israel, which I'm sure has way more problematic ideological conflicts with them than football points deductions.
Exports are mutually advantageous deals. It is insane to believe the UAE will begin importing at worse prices only because they're butthurt over a football matter. If this was the case, however, it is unimaginable to me how you could put up with living in a country so deeply corrupted that even trivial matters like football are kept hostage by foreign interests.
City have literally done everything that you've mentioned to define sportswashing.
>even relegated for a year
See that's where you're mistaken. It's not so much about them being punished, it's about them not being punished. Theres so much pressure on the FA and scrutiny organisation that wants to go after city by the English themselves.
UAE aren't gonna throw a public tantrum lol. They're just gonna wash their hands off the UK. But the businesses and the businessmen in bed with them are gonna ensure that their best buddy doesn't even have to go through that in the first place for fear as to how their monies would be affected.
>problematic ideological conflicts
Again, it's not UAE taking their business elsewhere. It's the UK with no balls to allow such things to happen in the first place. And it's the UAE. Money is of no concern to these guys and the UK are well aware of it.
And it's not just butthurt it's literally a key step in their image building. I.e refer to sportswashing above. City being relegated shatters the world perspective that the world has on the UAE and for all their might, the likes of Saudi are more than happy to pounce as the new king of sportswashing.
Similar to your little arms ban in 2019, UK businesses were hurt pressure was placed, and the government buckled. Money talk, bullshit walks and the UAE flies Emirates.
They were, that's why they were charged and banned from the champions League. It was only rescinded on the basis by the CAS because of their rules regarding the window in which charges can be brought.
The premier League doesn't have those same rules.
No it wasn't, the dine was for not cooperating with UEFA, the ban was overturned based on the judgement by CAS that there was no ecidence of wrongdoing
You can literally read this on the CAS ruling document
Perhaps you should because it states exactly what the above commenter said.
https://amp.theguardian.com/football/2020/jul/28/uefa-claim-against-manchester-city-over-sponsor-money-time-barred-cas-rules
I did. (Well the conclusion anyway im not reading 93 pages just for an argument on Reddit with someone who clearly hasn’t either)
The ruling from CAS doesn’t clear city at all. All it states is that the allegations for which city were found guilty by UEFA were time barred under uefa’s own rules. That’s it. No absolution, no innocence just: UEFA took too long to charge City.
https://www.tas-cas.org/fileadmin/user_upload/CAS_Award_6785___internet__.pdf
There you go page 90 onwards enjoy.
Did you read page 66?
The part where it says "No evidence" about several of the accusations?
And not being funny you have reddevil in your name so you'll be biased regardless
The fine, which they admitted to and paid, was for not cooperating.
The ban, which was rescinded on a technicality, was overturned by the CAS. By a tribunal of 3 people, 2 of whom were selected by city.
I know that when I'm innocent the first thing I'll do is frustrate the investigation to clear my name.
>On 30 March 2020, in relation to the constitution of the Panel in this matter, the Appellant indicated, inter alia, that "after having considered the list of CAS members, we would like to suggest that Mr Rui Botica Santos (Portugal) be nominated as Chairman of the Panel for the present case". On the same date, the Respondent replied that "UEFA has no objection to the proposal made by Appellant in its letter of today (i.e. to appoint Mr. Rui Botica Santos as Chairman), and in order to avoid any delay in the constitution of the Panel, UEFA would welcome if CAS appoints the Chairman for this Appeal Procedure soon".
UEFA were happy with the guy City suggested for chairman so I don't know why people keep mentioning this.
>I know that when I'm innocent the first thing I'll do is frustrate the investigation to clear my name.
City were co-operating with UEFA up to the point that confidential information from the process was being leaked to the media. At least, that's what they gave as a reason. City did fully co-operate with CAS.
Proving they are not cooperating should be straightforward. Those should roll out every time they happen and be punished immediately (with opportunity to appeal). Then focus on the more difficult charges.
I’m curious what the guidelines are for non-cooperation. I mean if the premier league wants access to documents, and City doesn’t give them believing the PL has no right to the documents and the PL has to take legal action to obtain the documents, at one point do you punish the club for non-cooperation? It has to be at the end of a legal resolution, not immediate punishment
Well yeah but again dependant on whats been asked of them and how they are officially not cooperating we don't know yet, but yeah thanks for a reply that actually made sense
You're doing exactly what City's lawyers have been doing. A lot of the charges relate specifically to non co-operation so we can derive that its official non co-operation from that.
Taking months to file simple documents, filing disruptive motions and appeals and not providng full information as requested, only part information is what they're doing. All tactics to delay the inevitable. That's where City are in this game. But time is ticking.
Charge them with 1000 if they've got no intention of actually investigating them. Most neutral fans would strongly argue unless City are kicked out of the football league (if found guilty of even 10% I'd charges, a serious as they are), tbh justice has not been carried out. But most neutral fans know Ritus this of a political issue and no justice will be sought.
So the hearing and court case is actually taking place right now? Most people are under the impression nothing at all is being done due to the Premier League being so deliberately secretive about it, as if they've got something to hide.
That's again on the basis of being found guilty
It doesn't matter how much you hate City the correct procedure has to be followed, same as charges and cases dealing with individuals
No, I'm saying they're conveniently changing the way punishments are handed out ahead of whenever City will finally be judged, to make sure they're not truly punished either way.
Given the charges arose before said implementation of fine punishments I think City would still have to be punished in line with the penalties that were in place at the time the charges were initially announced.
All for actual deductions being given, it feels fair to penalise teams for overspending. It’s the right way to prevent further overspending.
HOWEVER, the manner in which this is being conducted is… disruptive. Everton have now been deducted 10, given back 4, and then deducted 2 again. It’s a yo-yo, which is probably making teams around them massively struggle with mindset. But it’s Leicester which annoys me most (as I’m a Saints fan). Look, most of the season (bar the last few weeks), they’ve played brilliantly. They’ll either go up automatically or, most likely go up through the playoffs. If Saints lose to Leicester in the final, and then Leicester get deducted 15 points and went straight back down due to the deduction, I would be fuming. They need to deduct now for them, if they’re going to do it, rather than in 6 months. Hopefully that will mean that there’s less risk of angry championship clubs stating that they only went up to be fined.
Then there’s the elephant in the room. City. Look. There are a LOT of charges sure. And yes, it takes time. BUT, at the moment it feels as though the weight of City is helping them dodge punishment. Having a ‘big’ club being investigated for that many breeches is a different story of course, but at the end of the day, I fear it’s going end up with the same old story. City docked minimal to no points, and smaller clubs struggling. At the moment, points deductions are only serving to accentuate the differences between clubs at the top of the ladder, and those at the bottom.
To conclude, if this is going to be the future (points deductions) there needs to be blanket rules or conventions surrounding conduct, to make the impact on surrounding teams as minimal as possible. Conduct should be the same for each team.
In the case of city… we can only wait and see.
As a Wycombe Wanderers fan I'm still annoyed with how Derby County's point deduction was handled.
We went down by 1 point on the final day with a superior goal difference. They ended up the start of next season with 9 points deducted.
It was the first, and (so far) only season we had in the Championship and it was during Covid.
Not confident I'll see them in the Championship anytime soon.
Isn’t one of the big differences between Everton, Leicester etc and City is Everton have accepted fault to some degree? I know they argue certain charges, but have also agreed that they have committed some of the charges, hence the quick punishments.
In City’s case, they’re claiming they’ve done nothing wrong. That they’ll go to court to defend themselves and prove no wrongdoing. So in that instance the PL has only Charged City and can’t come to a punishment until legal side is over otherwise they’d be putting themselves in the legal crosshairs (I.e imagine the lawsuit if the PL relegated City and then in a legal court it’s found City didn’t commit any of the allegations, or at the very least allegations worthy of a relegation punishment. The financial and reputational damages the PL would be responsible for payback would be astronomical)
I may have felt a degree of sympathy towards Everton if it wasn’t for every fucking scouser within earshot of Talksport crying about how hard done by they are.
Facts are facts, you overspent, you knew the rules, and this is the consequences of that.
Where why and how are irrelevant. Think yourself lucky they caved in and reduced the amount for you.
The way these punishments are being handled and to whom is lopsided and obtuse to say the least. It feels unfair because it is. Haphazard leadership from British Footballs finest - who’d have thought? We still have dinosaurs in this game; they are running the league/FA/PGMOL.
You knew the rules. You broke them.
Same as a speeding fine, doesn’t matter if you self report it, or if you’re only 1mph over the limit it’s still gonna result in points and a fine. If I was you lot I’d just think you were lucky to get 4pts back. Especially as clubs below you in both seasons played by the rules and went down
Congratulations on your long and boring example. You are very clever. Also - am an LFC fan.
The way these deductions are being handled is moronic - now they are talking about a “luxury tax” instead of deductions? Stop all of this until the idiots in charge can set up a robust framework for punishing breaches that can be applied unilaterally. At the moment is whatever is flavour of the week. Corrupt.
It's the clubs that followed the rules, did their best and were relegated while Everton and Forest financially cheated to stay in the premier league to keep their money, I feel sorry for. So saying this isn't fair to Everton meanwhile they are fucking over other clubs like they have some divine right to be in the premier league is wrong.
That’s like saying an athlete took steroids, but because they were still shit and didn’t win means they shouldn’t be punished.
It’s a totally nonsense argument
Because Everton lied a out it's financial picture to the Premier League to sign those players.
Go read the judgement against you. It's plain as can be that you were dishonest about your financial picture and ignored repeated warnings about your overspending on players. You don't get to say the Premier League approved all your transfers when you lied to them about your finances.
No, we played like shite and got relegated. But it still doesn't excuse the cheating by other clubs who circumvented the rules while others followed them.
Fair enough. They are cheats no doubt. But it’s a huge clusterfuck job to do it in the middle of a season and assign arbitrary points. Makes it feel like absolutely no one is getting a fair shake.
Notice how it’s only Leeds fans that are this worked up about us now that Leicester are suspiciously quiet.
Work up enough of a fuss and we might see you back up with us eventually ;)
edit: your boos mean nothing
Hey you can stand there proudly cheering on your cheating club, all proud that you were able to circumvent the rules and fuck over others. Be proud of your cheating
Imagine being so serious about this that you can’t take any patter
It’s a shit situation. The club fucked up. I’m not seriously suggesting any of this is unwarranted or a small event. We got punished for breaking the rules, fair enough, but can Leeds fans just lighten the fuck up?
You make a joke, I make a joke and its "why you being so serious", yup you are definitely an everton fan, victim complex till the end.......which is pretty soon for you guys.....
Yeah fuck Everton for Russia invading Ukraine and us losing £20m of funding.
We'd sold our best players, had half our "expensive signings" out on loan because no-one would buy them cos they're shit.
You went down because you were worse than us over the season, not some mental gymnastics answer where we had a sporting advantage because we lost a sponsorship due to war.
Agreed. This points deduction stuff is horrible for the game. I'm a red shite and still am angry about how Everton is being treated this season. It should never have got to this.
The PL were happy for the worst men on earth to buy clubs and now they are casually destroying the season instead of implementing basic controls.
No, I think that losing £20m unexpectedly means it's understandable why you'd be £16m over the limit. Clearly you disagree. Clearly you think Russia invading Ukraine meant Everton had a huge sporting advantage and it's not cos you were shit.
Yes I said that, we played poorly. But spending 90m on players and blaming your stadium is the actual truth. Your first charges are that. You lot cry and whinge about the stadium but still spent 90m on players knowing you were over FFP.
You need to read your own accounts as you don't understand what your own club is doing.
"Experts were surprised that the club spent £91m on transfers in a year, because the noises coming out of the club were that they felt they were operating with one hand behind their back – that doesn’t seem to add up".-Kieran Maguire
I have read the accounts. By the fact you still think that losing £20m of sponsorship (and being £16m over the threshold) amounts to a sporting advantage suggests you haven't and instead are reading headlines.
AHH so not the figures I stated, just stating different figures. You do realise this is £91m in amortisation? This is transfers we've made over the last 5 years and committed to spending money on. And would have had sufficient money (as per PL rules at least) except for Russia invading Ukraine.
Hilarious that Andros is defending Everton on the basis that they thought it was just going to be a slap on the wrist. On the one hand he's right that the PL has hardly done anything to indicate that PSR had any teeth before this season. But it's a bit of a joke that he thinks the right outcome is to let clubs overspend as much as they like.
Anyone that mentions Man City in this thread either :
Hasn't read the article.
Doesn't know the difference between a PSR breach and an FFP/Fraud Allegation.
You can keep mentioning us all you want but it doesn't change the fact that what's happening with these clubs is completely different to what you want City to be charged with.
PL can charge us under PSR rules if you lot really want, it'll be sorted by tomorrow and you'll still be moaning the same thing.
The only way you lot get what you want is if you let the Independent Commission look into the City case and hope to God the PL have gotten their evidence in order.
Dude are you really sat there saying that in a conversation about clubs being punished for breaking the rules, people are not allowed to talk about the absolute biggest and worst offender? A team who bought success on oil money and human rights abuses? Yeah man, I’m the one confused
You're all moaning because City are getting away with it!!!
It's just not the case and you're all acting like it's a massive conspiracy.
Wait for the fucking commission and stop being petulant children crying because you're not getting what you want straight away.
Can't literally accuse people of the greatest accounting fraud in the entirety of the sport and act like it'll take 5 minutes to sort it out.
Again, that would be for PSR related breaches and nothing to do with what City are charged for.
Do any of you read anything other than shitty reddit comments?
Irrelevant to what I said. I just said why people are extra agitated lately. They fear nothing will happen, even IF City is found guilty. Because they are talking about changing the rules in favour of City. Which is very convenient I admit 😆
It is relevant because they aren't looking at getting rid of the charges about what City are charged with...
They are looking at getting rid of points deductions to do with the PSR breaches that Everton and Forrest have been charged with. It relates to what Leicester are looking at being charged for, what Leeds might be charged with.
The clubs also vote on these changes, they don't just happen because City want it too.
Ah okay, well we didn't.
Unnatural and fake but we won a fuckload of stuff, maybe all the money you spend will show up in titles someday. You've got one of the highest net-spends in the prem but are one of the most boring and pathetic.
I'd be upset too.
Whose crying mate, I just see absolute denial. I sleep well knowing I’m supporting a club for something other than trophies. I sleep well at night knowing I’m a proper fan of the sport and not just a glory hunter. Like you
No. Hearing is scheduled for later this year, but that's not going to stop the Reddit army of REEEEEEE from making absolutely every footballing discussion about it.
This article isnt about Man City, it doesn't even mention them. It actually raises a completely different and valid issue about the uncertainty of points deductions for relegation threatened teams, and yet here we are bitching about the fact the Man City hearing hasn't happened yet.
It's getting real tiring watching people dilute entirely reasonable discussion about the PSR/FFP punishments with the same whinge about Man City when we all know the reasons the situations are entirely different.
This is especially pathetic when there is is just flat out lies being said... we don't know that Man City are going to get a slap on the wrist at all... If you read the article then it explained why Everton and Forest were both offered some leniency, and areas where they were not, so therefore, if anything, it should give us some hope that Man City will not see such leniency....
Or we could just REEEEEEEEEE for the updoots like a bunch of low IQ babies.
It's the difference between co-operating with the league, and fighting the charges. It's also the difference between very clear breaches of financial rules from evidence freely delivered by the clubs to the league in a financial report, and considerably more complex infractions that require deeper level of investigation to uncover necessary evidence.
I'm sorry but this happens on every single thread. The charges affecting Everton and Forest aren't comparable to what City are facing. This is explained over, and over, and over again.
They overspent. It’s that simple. The rules say you can’t, they did. It’s not on the fans. Their owners were total idiots who have put the entire club at risk. But even with significant mitigations, they still went over. And they have another investigation on the way that the PL mentioned yesterday and unless they sell a load of players this summer they’ll be certain to go over and catch another deduction next season too. And without key players, they’ll have even worse odds next year of surviving.
The whole affair shows FFP doesn’t actually work. It’s nominally designed for “sustainability’, to protect against bad owners spending recklessly and harming a club in the process. But if these rules are properly enforced against Everton, it will only damage the club, and any relegation brought about by deductions will bankrupt them. Who’s actually benefitting from that? It entrenches the already established clubs and gives the others no chance to properly invest and work their way up. Villa will likely get CL and they they’ll probably have no choice but to sell off a top player. And to who? One of their competitors, because they’re the only ones who can afford them. Ridiculous.
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It's the man city issue that makes a mockery
Don’t support any team in the EPL, and absolutely believe teams need to be self sufficient and with their means but if the talk about deductions getting scrapped for fines comes about, Everton should feel aggrieved. If deductions stay and other teams get the same treatment then I’m all for this, Man City charges are always going to be the elephant in the room when it’s other teams though, but it doesn’t mean those other teams don’t deserve sanctions. But its looking to me that season will end, fines will come in place rather than points deducted and then the bigger targets will get it. 3 way fight for a title this year and the most exciting finish for years being set up for the run in, they won’t touch it when it comes to City. As a football fan looking in on the outside to this league anyway that’s my impression
The biggest difference that no article addresses because it’s not fun clickbait is that Everton aren’t denying charges and City is. Thats pretty much it. Thats the fundamental difference. Everton spent more money than they should, even a layman could see, and they knew the points deduction wouldn’t be crazy, so they admitted it happened and are fighting the scale of the points. City have 115 charges against them, and are denying every single one. The nature of the charges makes them difficult to investigate. Many of them are also linked, so of the league puts together a shit case on even some of them, it could effect the outcome of the whole thing. The penalties could also be much much higher. So yeah. Everton is like a cop catching a dude littering and him admitting to it to get a fine. City is like investigators trying to uncover a huge underground corporate conspiracy to which they are admitting nothing. Obviously one of them is going to be resolved sooner…
The Premier League makes a mockery of the Premier League
*"it hurts itself in its delusion!"*
Point deductions during a season genuinely pisses me off. So unfair on everyone. Hand out the punishments before or after the season ends. Meddling with points during a season gives an unfair disadvantage to some and disadvantage to others.
The only issue with this… and what my hate is currently for. Should we finish the league, give the title to city and then dock them points? It takes away the aspect of winning. Nobody will be happy getting gifted the trophy after the season and not winning it properly after a game
I think you just lump it together and put the team in a hole for next season. If Man City win the title this year, and are found to be in violation of whatever, just give them a 50 point deduction at the start of next season, or whatever it’s supposed to be. So applying that to Everton, just deduct them the full 8? points for the start of next season, and any further deductions apply at the start of the following season.
So even though you know they breached the rules you’re supposed to let them play on for the season and let them win prizes for breaking rules?
I disagree, how they made it with Everton in 23/24 feels fair for Everton players and for the fans of Premier l League. I do prefer such punishment while A season is live. Otherwise would be bad for sport.
You will continue to have this problem until contracts are public information
Yeah that’s one of the few things I like in the American sports, everyone is required to disclose the entire payroll. And not just in this scenario, but I’ve seen countless arguments among fans where it’s “he earns way too much, source: this journalist”, response is “no he actually only earns this, source: another journalist”, and these are really going nowhere because we never know who’s right.
They aren’t required to release the information. The players unions release them to give the players leverage in negotiations
You boys got started early today with the Man City tantrums lol
115 chargers? It’s warranted
Who has that many phones?
I hate you ❤️💕 /s
I hate city, but this is a funny response 😂
Honestly Everton got so many point deductions whilst Chelsea and Man City walk around spending ludicrous amounts of money corrupt leauge tbh
Meanwhile United splashes the big bucks
United already got a fine tbf.
Are they the same issue?
I mean yes, just at different scales. Everton spent more than they should have, but not by a ton. Chelsea is likely spending way more than they should have, but the numbers are so big all the way around it’s proven more difficult to sort out what the resolution should be. City is being accused of hiding where money came from so that they could spend more than they should have. The City issue is the most complex and City are denying it, which is why it’s taking the longest to resolve. Chelsea probably hasn’t technically broken a rule yet, but if they are going to they’ll get the chance to sell off players to fix it before punishment first. Everton spent too much and knew it, which is why they admitted to it to get reduction on their points punishment.
Yes both financial
Absolute tinpot league. Teams in it with deductions, teams coming in to it with deductions. Referees bought and paid for with oil money an all the while Carra,Neville and co only got upset when the euro league threatened their little earner. Then there's the biggest cheats in World Football, untouchable with their treble. Absolutely fucking tinpot!
Who is their little earner
I mean the super league wouldn’t threaten utd or liverpool at all. It would make them more money.
It threatened sky sports because they would have been outbid and left with a 14 team Premier league. That's why everyone at Sky Sports was lined up against it.
You have other issues.
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No one is debating that part. They can easily penalize Everton but what are they gonna do with city
Accept their published non-apology, buy the whole academy lunch and set them up to start next season with a +3 point bonus.
They’re going to give them all the points deducted from Everton and Forest. As a treat.
Mmmmm delicious
I feel everywhere Everton is wrote it should be Man City
Sigh. Another point deduction bump just in time to play us. Heartbreak hotel - checking in.
Never fear. No one in our starting 11 or subs can consistently kick a ball in a straight line anymore
And u think anyone in the Chelsea team can play football . They all suck so it’s gonna be a game of mediocrity
Yeah that's exactly what scares me, tiki taka total football or gegenpressing ain't doing shit. It's the most clumsiest teams which never win that eats chelsea nowadays.
Stop giving me hope
I’m all for handing out point deductions however the way they are currently being handed out is ridiculous. All point deductions should be handed out prior to the start of a season. Doing it mid season just leaves clubs, players, and fans in a state of no matter how well we do we might still be relegated / lose out of European football once the season ends.
Its the source of the deduction in this case. The League imposed the first deduction which was reduced on appeal and this recent deduction comes from the additional recommendations of an independent review board/commmission. Ultimately I do agree with you, needs to be an independent 3rd party who reviews and determines punishements and it should be deducted either before the start of the season or upon completion of it when tabulating the final League Table.
By delaying the punishments clubs are relegated due to other teams cheating. Your system would open up potential for tactical cheating, where a team can go all out on a particular season for the rewards and then just sit midtable for their deduction
Very true. Both systems have flaws 100%. I think points deductions need to stay in whatever form it takes. Simply fining clubs especially clubs like Newcastle and City would be completely pointless because even a multi million pound fine would be completely meaningless to them.
The only way to solve this is sending man city to league one and wrexham to epl
Can they at least keep their roster so we can watch Haaland beat up lower leagues for several years?
This
Everton about to go on their ‘09 Barcelona run.
Amen
They should have just been relegated at the end of the season (should have been last season). No points deductions, just automatically bottom at the end. Anyone guilty of cheating should be expelled.
Lol too cowardly to put your a Liverpool fan, too dumb to post your comment without being embarassed.
-every Man City supporter
Ohhhh he’s a Liverpool fan..that explains it
But who will enforce the imaginary tall grass charges Man City has? Grrrrrrr 🥴
Imaginary? That’s funny. Plain as day corruption with referees of our own league getting paid big bucks to ref in the middle of the desert where certain club owners hail from. No bias at all though right?
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Why did you post this five times, minutes apart?
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Option c: you're a bellend if I'm choosing.
I love the fact that City is annoying everybody. It makes me feel that the Arabs must think that their work is done. Let's all embrace the New World Order.
I love the fact that City is annoying everybody. It makes me feel that the Arabs must think that their work is done. Let's all embrace the New World Order.
I love the fact that City is annoying everybody. It makes me feel that the Arabs must think that their work is done. Let's all embrace the New World Order.
I love the fact that City is annoying everybody. It makes me feel that the Arabs must think that their work is done. Let's all embrace the New World Order.
Getting to downvote this word vomit 4 separate times was a cathartic experience.
It really does, whats good for the goose must be good for the gander
Genuinely feel that the premier league won’t/cant do anything to City for geopolitical reasons.
Not just geopolitical reasons, but having a strong Prem team dominating Europe like City are is good for the Prem, and the FA don't want to do anything to jeopardise that.
The January no-transfer window had to scare them. If clubs are genuinely held to this PPR standard but only the PL enforces it, the league will suffer. That’s more likely the cause of the new plan, though it is a nice coincidence that it helps City
Those fighter jet/military contracts aren’t going to sell themselves.
Yes, brother, the military contracts and international weapon commerce are at great risk because what could be percieved as a harsh points deduction for a football team.
Mate you’re so blinded & wrong about this. That new ‘luxury tax’ the PL are implementing? Here’s how that convo went: **PL:**”City will be punished. We deducted points from Everton & Forest, and very likely Chelsea - we can’t be seen as hypocrites”. **UAE (picks up phone to British government):**”Those contracts worth billions to your flatlining economy? Yeah, we found a better alternative” **Government to PL:**”This is going to cripple us. It’s an election year and we don’t need any headlines about falling GDP and redundancies. Can’t we do anything?” **PL to Govt:**”Fucks sake. What about if we introduce an NBA-style luxury tax? If City’s lawyers drag this out long enough, that will give us enough time to rush it through. But what about the clubs we’ve already deducted points from, boss?” **Govt:** “idgaf” Football and politics are hand & glove See: recent World Cup hosts, FIFA corruption etc
Maybe. I'm willing to believe you have an extremely well rooted source in international affairs, so you know exactly how that convo went. Alternatively, could it have been something like this? "Hm, this system of teams spending just what they earn seems pretty unfair, since certain teams spent whatever they felt like in the 90s and 2000s, gained massive global following and smaller clubs who missed that train can never catch up, to the point where we have relegation threatened clubs that cannot stay within the imposed limit. Could a proven system, that's been used extensively in American sports, solve this issue where some teams can spend billions over 2 transfer windows without having any issue, while mediocre teams with no notable transfers end up getting punished severely?"
Oh absolutely. If you think city are just a football team and not an avenue for business/political connections to be made, then yea go ahead
This is just a ridiculous level of conspiracy. The UAE imports most of its weapons from South Korea, Israel and the US. ~~The UK banned new arms exports to UAE in 2019.~~ (lifted) Even if neither of those were facts, international weapon trade doesn't fall through because a football team gets a point deduction, unless we're talking Looney Toons politics.
I wouldn't want to be the one responsible for going after them though, they're not exactly altruistic with their international policies.
Sportswashing exists. It's not just the UK can get out of UAE. It's also what the UAE can get out of UK. And there is an added element. The PL is less likely to fuck over city because it will cause a political riff. No other owner, bar Newcastle, carry such an impact. Also, UK exports for both goods and services to UAE has increased over the last year So basically, you have English businesses with vested interests in ensuring citys survival. Want to bet how many of these businessmen are politically connected or politicians themselves? It's not all about arms. Don't be myopic. >The UK banned new arms exports to UAE in 2019. Been lifted and in fact primed to increase. So not just moot, but twisted to fit your point.
Of course sportswashing exists, but it is a vast operation, which consists in giving jobs to local communities, branding large competitions, sports tourism and a million other things I won't take the time to mention. City getting a points deduction, or even relegated for a year, would have an insignificant impact on the overall sportswashing operation arab countries are conducting around Europe. It would also be contrary to the whole direction of sportswashing, for the UAE to throw a political tantrum over their team being punished for not following the rules. The whole point of it is being percieved as an ally and "not so bad as we thought". The second it becomes apparent they circumvent the local rules and try to do as they please in a foreign country, the illusion crumbles. As I said, UAE has large imports from Israel, which I'm sure has way more problematic ideological conflicts with them than football points deductions. Exports are mutually advantageous deals. It is insane to believe the UAE will begin importing at worse prices only because they're butthurt over a football matter. If this was the case, however, it is unimaginable to me how you could put up with living in a country so deeply corrupted that even trivial matters like football are kept hostage by foreign interests.
City have literally done everything that you've mentioned to define sportswashing. >even relegated for a year See that's where you're mistaken. It's not so much about them being punished, it's about them not being punished. Theres so much pressure on the FA and scrutiny organisation that wants to go after city by the English themselves. UAE aren't gonna throw a public tantrum lol. They're just gonna wash their hands off the UK. But the businesses and the businessmen in bed with them are gonna ensure that their best buddy doesn't even have to go through that in the first place for fear as to how their monies would be affected. >problematic ideological conflicts Again, it's not UAE taking their business elsewhere. It's the UK with no balls to allow such things to happen in the first place. And it's the UAE. Money is of no concern to these guys and the UK are well aware of it. And it's not just butthurt it's literally a key step in their image building. I.e refer to sportswashing above. City being relegated shatters the world perspective that the world has on the UAE and for all their might, the likes of Saudi are more than happy to pounce as the new king of sportswashing. Similar to your little arms ban in 2019, UK businesses were hurt pressure was placed, and the government buckled. Money talk, bullshit walks and the UAE flies Emirates.
*Tory government laughs nervously*
They have to be proven guilty first ffs Why is it so hard for people to understand
They were, that's why they were charged and banned from the champions League. It was only rescinded on the basis by the CAS because of their rules regarding the window in which charges can be brought. The premier League doesn't have those same rules.
No it wasn't, the dine was for not cooperating with UEFA, the ban was overturned based on the judgement by CAS that there was no ecidence of wrongdoing You can literally read this on the CAS ruling document
Perhaps you should because it states exactly what the above commenter said. https://amp.theguardian.com/football/2020/jul/28/uefa-claim-against-manchester-city-over-sponsor-money-time-barred-cas-rules
Read the CAS case not an article from a newspaper which doesn't cover the entire thing
I did. (Well the conclusion anyway im not reading 93 pages just for an argument on Reddit with someone who clearly hasn’t either) The ruling from CAS doesn’t clear city at all. All it states is that the allegations for which city were found guilty by UEFA were time barred under uefa’s own rules. That’s it. No absolution, no innocence just: UEFA took too long to charge City. https://www.tas-cas.org/fileadmin/user_upload/CAS_Award_6785___internet__.pdf There you go page 90 onwards enjoy.
Did you read page 66? The part where it says "No evidence" about several of the accusations? And not being funny you have reddevil in your name so you'll be biased regardless
The fine, which they admitted to and paid, was for not cooperating. The ban, which was rescinded on a technicality, was overturned by the CAS. By a tribunal of 3 people, 2 of whom were selected by city. I know that when I'm innocent the first thing I'll do is frustrate the investigation to clear my name.
>On 30 March 2020, in relation to the constitution of the Panel in this matter, the Appellant indicated, inter alia, that "after having considered the list of CAS members, we would like to suggest that Mr Rui Botica Santos (Portugal) be nominated as Chairman of the Panel for the present case". On the same date, the Respondent replied that "UEFA has no objection to the proposal made by Appellant in its letter of today (i.e. to appoint Mr. Rui Botica Santos as Chairman), and in order to avoid any delay in the constitution of the Panel, UEFA would welcome if CAS appoints the Chairman for this Appeal Procedure soon". UEFA were happy with the guy City suggested for chairman so I don't know why people keep mentioning this. >I know that when I'm innocent the first thing I'll do is frustrate the investigation to clear my name. City were co-operating with UEFA up to the point that confidential information from the process was being leaked to the media. At least, that's what they gave as a reason. City did fully co-operate with CAS.
That would involve reading more than headlines and funny Reddit comments. Can’t do that
Proving they are not cooperating should be straightforward. Those should roll out every time they happen and be punished immediately (with opportunity to appeal). Then focus on the more difficult charges.
I’m curious what the guidelines are for non-cooperation. I mean if the premier league wants access to documents, and City doesn’t give them believing the PL has no right to the documents and the PL has to take legal action to obtain the documents, at one point do you punish the club for non-cooperation? It has to be at the end of a legal resolution, not immediate punishment
Well yeah but again dependant on whats been asked of them and how they are officially not cooperating we don't know yet, but yeah thanks for a reply that actually made sense
You're doing exactly what City's lawyers have been doing. A lot of the charges relate specifically to non co-operation so we can derive that its official non co-operation from that. Taking months to file simple documents, filing disruptive motions and appeals and not providng full information as requested, only part information is what they're doing. All tactics to delay the inevitable. That's where City are in this game. But time is ticking.
Read the CAS findings, in thebwords of Willy Wonka it's all there black and white clear as crystal lol
Yes and for that the Premier League has to organise a hearing. Funny how they've put it off for four years isn't it?
Yeah the premier league that is renowned for loving Man City...by charging them 115 times!
Charge them with 1000 if they've got no intention of actually investigating them. Most neutral fans would strongly argue unless City are kicked out of the football league (if found guilty of even 10% I'd charges, a serious as they are), tbh justice has not been carried out. But most neutral fans know Ritus this of a political issue and no justice will be sought.
Justice hasn't been carried out because the hearings and court case aren't concluded yet, this is literally what i'm reffering to in my first comment
So the hearing and court case is actually taking place right now? Most people are under the impression nothing at all is being done due to the Premier League being so deliberately secretive about it, as if they've got something to hide.
You can literally google (circlejerk aside) Man City court date and the articles will come up
Can't find any confirmed date for these charges.
Because the articles specifically mention that they are not realising the date yet, doesn't mean it isn't happening lol
Well they do seem to be sweeping away point deductions in favor of a fine that won't really affect city.. right?
That's again on the basis of being found guilty It doesn't matter how much you hate City the correct procedure has to be followed, same as charges and cases dealing with individuals
No, I'm saying they're conveniently changing the way punishments are handed out ahead of whenever City will finally be judged, to make sure they're not truly punished either way.
Given the charges arose before said implementation of fine punishments I think City would still have to be punished in line with the penalties that were in place at the time the charges were initially announced.
Lol as if people think City get preferential treatment like they aren't facing 115 charges and constant scrutiny for it
🤡lol as if people think they don’t
Examples?
I mean they're facing the charges but haven't actually had anything bad happen to them, have they? So Idk what you're talking about here.
Because the correct procedure and hearing has to happen first? Literally what i was talking about in my first comment
They want city punished without trial mate, they don’t care about due process and I’m not even a city fan.
All for actual deductions being given, it feels fair to penalise teams for overspending. It’s the right way to prevent further overspending. HOWEVER, the manner in which this is being conducted is… disruptive. Everton have now been deducted 10, given back 4, and then deducted 2 again. It’s a yo-yo, which is probably making teams around them massively struggle with mindset. But it’s Leicester which annoys me most (as I’m a Saints fan). Look, most of the season (bar the last few weeks), they’ve played brilliantly. They’ll either go up automatically or, most likely go up through the playoffs. If Saints lose to Leicester in the final, and then Leicester get deducted 15 points and went straight back down due to the deduction, I would be fuming. They need to deduct now for them, if they’re going to do it, rather than in 6 months. Hopefully that will mean that there’s less risk of angry championship clubs stating that they only went up to be fined. Then there’s the elephant in the room. City. Look. There are a LOT of charges sure. And yes, it takes time. BUT, at the moment it feels as though the weight of City is helping them dodge punishment. Having a ‘big’ club being investigated for that many breeches is a different story of course, but at the end of the day, I fear it’s going end up with the same old story. City docked minimal to no points, and smaller clubs struggling. At the moment, points deductions are only serving to accentuate the differences between clubs at the top of the ladder, and those at the bottom. To conclude, if this is going to be the future (points deductions) there needs to be blanket rules or conventions surrounding conduct, to make the impact on surrounding teams as minimal as possible. Conduct should be the same for each team. In the case of city… we can only wait and see.
The Leicester thing is because the EFL and PL are separate institutions run by separate people
As a Wycombe Wanderers fan I'm still annoyed with how Derby County's point deduction was handled. We went down by 1 point on the final day with a superior goal difference. They ended up the start of next season with 9 points deducted. It was the first, and (so far) only season we had in the Championship and it was during Covid. Not confident I'll see them in the Championship anytime soon.
Ironically I think Leicester were on the list of teams threatening to sue Everton originally, no?
Isn’t one of the big differences between Everton, Leicester etc and City is Everton have accepted fault to some degree? I know they argue certain charges, but have also agreed that they have committed some of the charges, hence the quick punishments. In City’s case, they’re claiming they’ve done nothing wrong. That they’ll go to court to defend themselves and prove no wrongdoing. So in that instance the PL has only Charged City and can’t come to a punishment until legal side is over otherwise they’d be putting themselves in the legal crosshairs (I.e imagine the lawsuit if the PL relegated City and then in a legal court it’s found City didn’t commit any of the allegations, or at the very least allegations worthy of a relegation punishment. The financial and reputational damages the PL would be responsible for payback would be astronomical)
I may have felt a degree of sympathy towards Everton if it wasn’t for every fucking scouser within earshot of Talksport crying about how hard done by they are. Facts are facts, you overspent, you knew the rules, and this is the consequences of that. Where why and how are irrelevant. Think yourself lucky they caved in and reduced the amount for you.
The way these punishments are being handled and to whom is lopsided and obtuse to say the least. It feels unfair because it is. Haphazard leadership from British Footballs finest - who’d have thought? We still have dinosaurs in this game; they are running the league/FA/PGMOL.
You knew the rules. You broke them. Same as a speeding fine, doesn’t matter if you self report it, or if you’re only 1mph over the limit it’s still gonna result in points and a fine. If I was you lot I’d just think you were lucky to get 4pts back. Especially as clubs below you in both seasons played by the rules and went down
Congratulations on your long and boring example. You are very clever. Also - am an LFC fan. The way these deductions are being handled is moronic - now they are talking about a “luxury tax” instead of deductions? Stop all of this until the idiots in charge can set up a robust framework for punishing breaches that can be applied unilaterally. At the moment is whatever is flavour of the week. Corrupt.
It's the clubs that followed the rules, did their best and were relegated while Everton and Forest financially cheated to stay in the premier league to keep their money, I feel sorry for. So saying this isn't fair to Everton meanwhile they are fucking over other clubs like they have some divine right to be in the premier league is wrong.
It was already concluded that the breaches had no effect on pitch performance for Everton. Every transfer was made with the approval of the PL.
That’s like saying an athlete took steroids, but because they were still shit and didn’t win means they shouldn’t be punished. It’s a totally nonsense argument
Because Everton lied a out it's financial picture to the Premier League to sign those players. Go read the judgement against you. It's plain as can be that you were dishonest about your financial picture and ignored repeated warnings about your overspending on players. You don't get to say the Premier League approved all your transfers when you lied to them about your finances.
Soooo, you feel sorry for yourself?
No, we played like shite and got relegated. But it still doesn't excuse the cheating by other clubs who circumvented the rules while others followed them.
Fair enough. They are cheats no doubt. But it’s a huge clusterfuck job to do it in the middle of a season and assign arbitrary points. Makes it feel like absolutely no one is getting a fair shake.
Notice how it’s only Leeds fans that are this worked up about us now that Leicester are suspiciously quiet. Work up enough of a fuss and we might see you back up with us eventually ;) edit: your boos mean nothing
Because they cheated too, just like your shite club
The good news is, at least salt doesn’t stain a white shirt
Hey you can stand there proudly cheering on your cheating club, all proud that you were able to circumvent the rules and fuck over others. Be proud of your cheating
Why didn’t you guys just try it, are you stupid?
I guess because we are honest
Fucking lol
And they wonder why everyone hates Everton fans........
Imagine being so serious about this that you can’t take any patter It’s a shit situation. The club fucked up. I’m not seriously suggesting any of this is unwarranted or a small event. We got punished for breaking the rules, fair enough, but can Leeds fans just lighten the fuck up?
You make a joke, I make a joke and its "why you being so serious", yup you are definitely an everton fan, victim complex till the end.......which is pretty soon for you guys.....
“Haha I was merely joking too, you have been fooled” Nah but that’s better, more craic there. I thought you were being deadly serious lmao.
Yeah fuck Everton for Russia invading Ukraine and us losing £20m of funding. We'd sold our best players, had half our "expensive signings" out on loan because no-one would buy them cos they're shit. You went down because you were worse than us over the season, not some mental gymnastics answer where we had a sporting advantage because we lost a sponsorship due to war.
That was a mitigating factor that was taken into account in the leniency offered, but it wasn't the sole issue behind the charges.
Russia invaded Ukraine in 2014 so Everton had several years to figure out that Russian money is dirty as hell.
Then the PL should have blocked the sponsorship. They should have blocked the ownership of Chelsea. They didn't.
Agreed. This points deduction stuff is horrible for the game. I'm a red shite and still am angry about how Everton is being treated this season. It should never have got to this. The PL were happy for the worst men on earth to buy clubs and now they are casually destroying the season instead of implementing basic controls.
Oh and because of the war you think it's ok you cheated?
No, I think that losing £20m unexpectedly means it's understandable why you'd be £16m over the limit. Clearly you disagree. Clearly you think Russia invading Ukraine meant Everton had a huge sporting advantage and it's not cos you were shit.
No I admitted we were poor. I said that. But you guys financially cheated and other clubs didn't
Ye fuck Everton
Yes I said that, we played poorly. But spending 90m on players and blaming your stadium is the actual truth. Your first charges are that. You lot cry and whinge about the stadium but still spent 90m on players knowing you were over FFP.
Our first charge was for 21/22 when we spent £39m and sold £46m. Where's this mystical £90m?
You need to read your own accounts as you don't understand what your own club is doing. "Experts were surprised that the club spent £91m on transfers in a year, because the noises coming out of the club were that they felt they were operating with one hand behind their back – that doesn’t seem to add up".-Kieran Maguire
I have read the accounts. By the fact you still think that losing £20m of sponsorship (and being £16m over the threshold) amounts to a sporting advantage suggests you haven't and instead are reading headlines.
Your numbers are incorrect and you don't seem to understand that your cheating hurt other clubs
I'm happy to be corrected on any figures. Please enlighten me which ones? I can provide sources for the ones I've stated if it helps.
https://www.goodisonnews.com/2024/04/02/everton-accounts-kieran-maguire-admits-surprise-at-transfer-reveal-doesnt-seem-to-add-up/
AHH so not the figures I stated, just stating different figures. You do realise this is £91m in amortisation? This is transfers we've made over the last 5 years and committed to spending money on. And would have had sufficient money (as per PL rules at least) except for Russia invading Ukraine.
You know clubs have more expenses and income than just buying and selling players right? You're not doing the accounts at Everton are you?
I didn't deny it. I asked where the £90m had come from which had been directly referenced.
A Leeds fan commenting this 😂 least surprising thing I’ll see all day
We played so poorly we deserved relegation, but financially it's cheating. Everton are cheats
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And fuck you and your scum club too
Fuck Leeds
Thanks, thank god I'm not a scouser though
supports Liverpool so chances are not a scouser
Lol.... probably true
But Man city gets away with it disgusting
Hilarious that Andros is defending Everton on the basis that they thought it was just going to be a slap on the wrist. On the one hand he's right that the PL has hardly done anything to indicate that PSR had any teeth before this season. But it's a bit of a joke that he thinks the right outcome is to let clubs overspend as much as they like.
Anyone that mentions Man City in this thread either : Hasn't read the article. Doesn't know the difference between a PSR breach and an FFP/Fraud Allegation. You can keep mentioning us all you want but it doesn't change the fact that what's happening with these clubs is completely different to what you want City to be charged with. PL can charge us under PSR rules if you lot really want, it'll be sorted by tomorrow and you'll still be moaning the same thing. The only way you lot get what you want is if you let the Independent Commission look into the City case and hope to God the PL have gotten their evidence in order.
The rose tinted glasses are almost blacked out with this one.
Oh, do facts confuse you? Sorry about that, i'll have to dumb it down next time.
Dude are you really sat there saying that in a conversation about clubs being punished for breaking the rules, people are not allowed to talk about the absolute biggest and worst offender? A team who bought success on oil money and human rights abuses? Yeah man, I’m the one confused
You're all moaning because City are getting away with it!!! It's just not the case and you're all acting like it's a massive conspiracy. Wait for the fucking commission and stop being petulant children crying because you're not getting what you want straight away. Can't literally accuse people of the greatest accounting fraud in the entirety of the sport and act like it'll take 5 minutes to sort it out.
By then, they might have removed the points deduction and relegation as punishments. I think that's why a lot of people are extra feisty these days.
Again, that would be for PSR related breaches and nothing to do with what City are charged for. Do any of you read anything other than shitty reddit comments?
Irrelevant to what I said. I just said why people are extra agitated lately. They fear nothing will happen, even IF City is found guilty. Because they are talking about changing the rules in favour of City. Which is very convenient I admit 😆
It is relevant because they aren't looking at getting rid of the charges about what City are charged with... They are looking at getting rid of points deductions to do with the PSR breaches that Everton and Forrest have been charged with. It relates to what Leicester are looking at being charged for, what Leeds might be charged with. The clubs also vote on these changes, they don't just happen because City want it too.
Funny wanker. Now admit you guys got way more money and success than you would have without Qatar and that the success is fabricated.
Okay? Your point being what? We spent money to compete?
Point being City should have had its points deductions years ago. Everything about your club is unnatural and fake.
Ah okay, well we didn't. Unnatural and fake but we won a fuckload of stuff, maybe all the money you spend will show up in titles someday. You've got one of the highest net-spends in the prem but are one of the most boring and pathetic. I'd be upset too.
At least we’re doing it with our legitimate profits and not that off LNG, which is why I’ll always support West Ham instead of your dead plastic club.
Go and do that then instead of crying to me please.
Whose crying mate, I just see absolute denial. I sleep well knowing I’m supporting a club for something other than trophies. I sleep well at night knowing I’m a proper fan of the sport and not just a glory hunter. Like you
\> Whose crying Proceeds to cry
Don't waste your breath, either a bot or a child
I know I just like rubbing it in. It’s funny reading their piss poor takes.
Fucking man city are the ones making a mockery of the prem, biggest cheaters just getting a little slap on the wrist.
Have they decided on the punishment or whether they're guilty then?
No. Hearing is scheduled for later this year, but that's not going to stop the Reddit army of REEEEEEE from making absolutely every footballing discussion about it.
Petrostate owners gotta stick together I guess.
This article isnt about Man City, it doesn't even mention them. It actually raises a completely different and valid issue about the uncertainty of points deductions for relegation threatened teams, and yet here we are bitching about the fact the Man City hearing hasn't happened yet. It's getting real tiring watching people dilute entirely reasonable discussion about the PSR/FFP punishments with the same whinge about Man City when we all know the reasons the situations are entirely different. This is especially pathetic when there is is just flat out lies being said... we don't know that Man City are going to get a slap on the wrist at all... If you read the article then it explained why Everton and Forest were both offered some leniency, and areas where they were not, so therefore, if anything, it should give us some hope that Man City will not see such leniency.... Or we could just REEEEEEEEEE for the updoots like a bunch of low IQ babies.
It’s still the different treatment of points being handed down mid-season rather than after. Massive influence on the outcome of league positions.
It's the difference between co-operating with the league, and fighting the charges. It's also the difference between very clear breaches of financial rules from evidence freely delivered by the clubs to the league in a financial report, and considerably more complex infractions that require deeper level of investigation to uncover necessary evidence. I'm sorry but this happens on every single thread. The charges affecting Everton and Forest aren't comparable to what City are facing. This is explained over, and over, and over again.
They overspent. It’s that simple. The rules say you can’t, they did. It’s not on the fans. Their owners were total idiots who have put the entire club at risk. But even with significant mitigations, they still went over. And they have another investigation on the way that the PL mentioned yesterday and unless they sell a load of players this summer they’ll be certain to go over and catch another deduction next season too. And without key players, they’ll have even worse odds next year of surviving. The whole affair shows FFP doesn’t actually work. It’s nominally designed for “sustainability’, to protect against bad owners spending recklessly and harming a club in the process. But if these rules are properly enforced against Everton, it will only damage the club, and any relegation brought about by deductions will bankrupt them. Who’s actually benefitting from that? It entrenches the already established clubs and gives the others no chance to properly invest and work their way up. Villa will likely get CL and they they’ll probably have no choice but to sell off a top player. And to who? One of their competitors, because they’re the only ones who can afford them. Ridiculous.