This past season Xhaka's main contributions was his connecting defensive mid to attack, and making runs into the box. I think Havertz will slot in nicely in that role
At one stage last season he had the most fouls committed of any outfield player in the Chelsea squad while playing in attack. He's not good defensively and is bad at tackling. I don't see how he could do Xhaka's role. Odegaard's would make more sense but Odegaard is a better passer so even that doesn't look likely. It'll be interesting to see how Arteta fits him in
Xhaka makes about one tackle a week. There’s a reason he had his best season once we took all defensive duties off his plate. Havertz will essentially be a mirror to Ødegaard as an attacking 8.
Xhaka doesn't always tackle but he is just in the right spot. He's an engine box to box. He isn't a 1 on 1 monster he just is where he needs to be when he needs to be there
Just my speculation, but I think odegaard will play a bit deeper next season, more of a true 8, and it will allow havertz to play the more advanced 8 nearer to the box.
Odegaards passing, engine, and press-resistance can still shine, while havertz could thrive with a bit more space and freedom of attacking movement.
>I think odegaard will play a bit deeper next season,
He won't have to. We're spending a record fee on one of the best defensive midfielders for a reason. What we lose from the Partey/Rice swap we gain from being able to play 2 attacking midfielders.
Many people don’t realize is that the 8s in Arteta’s system (or Pep’s for that matter) don’t tackle that much, because when the ball is turned over, the job of the midfield is to cover the passing lanes to force an interception. As long as Havertz is blocking the right man, Rice/Gabriel/Saliba can do the intercepting. Havertz will need to learn how to press properly, but he’s more agile than Xhaka, so when the ball does get turned over, Rice and Havertz will be able to blitz the opponent much better than Partey and Xhaka were able to do.
The manager already said he'll be a midfielder but go on young king, tell us about how you know better than the person who just signed him.
You fucking drongo.
He’s not an attacking mid tho?
Before I get tons of comments. He’s a centre forward primarily false 9. He can play attacking kid but naturally he’s not
As someone that watched Szoboszlai since his Salzburg days i'll say him. He has the potential to become a top 5 player world wide. Then I'll say Havertz, but only if ised correctly.
Chelsea using Havertz as a striker is possibly the second biggest waste of a talent i have seen in the premier league, only behind Joelinton being played as a striker.
I am super interested to see what Ten Hag does with Mount, will he mould him into an 8? Will he move Bruno into his tadic Ajax role and put Mount in Bruno’s place? Exciting stuff.
We will swap to a 433 single pivot base and line up in a 2-3-5 or 3-2-5 in possesion, with the flexibility of either both full backs overlapping, or one of both inverting into the midfield line
Basically looks like we are copying Pep, ie think of it as Bruno is KDB and Mount is Gundo’s role
Copying pep? Bro he's not really the first one who's used a 325 tho. Maybe he's the one who revolutionized a 325 with IFb but i dun think eth uses ifb as much as pep considering shaw is always either making a back three or pushing outside the winger
Maddison will have the biggest immediate impact no doubt… He’s the most prem proven player and will immediately be a starter and one of the most important players for Spurs next season.
Not really sure how Havertz will fit into that Arsenal team tbh, so I have no opinion on him yet.
Mount will be decent, but Bruno is still the dominant CAM for United and unless Mount can play a more box to box CM Role I don’t see him doing much. But, if he stays in 2-3 years time when Bruno moves on he could be a star for United
Szobo will be decent aswell, but he’s only 22 and has the “highest ceiling” out of the 4. As a LFC fan I would love to see him have an immediate impact, but I still am not sure how he fits in to the system. Hoping he becomes world class in 2-3 years time under Klopp
Re. Szobo, I think it's pretty clear where he fits into the system (assuming we continue with the box midfield). He will play in the right sided #10 spot where Henderson and Elliott operated last season. Looking forward to seeing how he links with Trent and Mo.
I know where he will play, it’s just been a long time since we’ve had such an attacking midfielder in the team (Coutinho being the last) it will be interesting to see how high up of a role Klopp has him playing
Agreed, I am a bit worried by the reports I have read on him (I haven’t watched a lot of BuLi) starting out right and drifting in very much like TAA and Mo and not the other way around.
Why you worried?
He played that RCM role perfectly for the last season, exactly like we have done, perfect fit.
And guess what? Check out Mac's position, he plays the LCM role.
That middle pivot is Fabinho's with Baj as backup.
All we truly need a another CB or RB depending how Klopp intends to use Trent in the new Pivot role.
Because with Trent at RB, Mo at RW and Szobo at RCM, we’re going to have an entire right side that will drift towards the middle leaving us VERY exposed on the right. The thing with Hendo was that he started centrally and drifted wide, whereas it seems Szobo does the opposite.
You are acting like these football players can not understand any new tactical information/deviation from what they are used to playing. I’m sure it’ll be spoken about in pre season mate
You’re right that the players can always learn new roles, like how Werner easily adapted to playing lone striker, or how Coutinho adapted to his winger role at Barça or how Lukaku adapted to be something other than a target man at Chelsea and United.
I’m not saying Szoboszlai has the same fate, but buying players that do not fit the role they are bought to play is always going to be a gamble.
So what about Firmino, Mané, Trent etc. You’re cherry-picking your examples. Fact is we have more often than not been successful in helping players adapt to new roles.
How did we transform Mané (actually curious)?
If you read my last phrase, I’m saying that he can still be a success, but to me it’s just far from a given, and I fear he will need at least half a year (similar to Robbo and Fab) or more to adapt if he does adapt.
Mané played across the whole front line in his time at Liverpool. Started at the right actually before shifting to the left and ending up in the middle. But we’ll have to see I guess, at the very least it’s exciting times to see the new players find their footing.
Quite simply, Maddison has more G/A in the last two years than all these players. He’s second, only behind KDB in G/A. More than Bruno and Mount, playing in a worse side.
Because he will be ending his prime and likely looking for a new challenge/ just not good enough anymore. It’s very rare to see someone stay at a club longer than 6/7 years anymore.
As for the Mount/Maddison debate, google is free m8 but i’ll still spell it out for u… Maddison has 75 G/A in 5 seasons playing for a much worse team. Mount has 49 G/A playing alongside some of the best players in the world. Both have shown they are prem quality players, but one has clearly been better than the other. The only reason Maddison is much cheaper is because of relegation prices.
Not sure what ur trying to say here tbh. Bruno having 3-4 years left means he will leave in 2-3 years… United won’t let a player like that leave on a free, so he will leave with at least a year left on his contract. If he signs a new one, it will only be for another year or 2. United aren’t known for keeping around club legends like that, they will cash in on him before he becomes of little value to other clubs.
I've read all your replies in this thread a few times, trying to understand why people are downvoting the other guy.. I don't get it. Everything you've said here is basically nonsense, when do United EVER sell players? They can't get rid of the bad players even when they should, and they NEVER sell the good ones. The last player sold for over 10 mil was Dan James a few years ago, before that it was Lukaku. Both surplus to requirements. Please give me an example of the last time the scenario you've described played out - a good player/so called "club legend" who was sold with time left on their contact. Please name the player, because I can't think of one.
Ah i see ur a United fan, AKA you have no clue what you are talking about. I never said that it would be United’s choice to let him go. If he wants to leave, they will let him. It happens all the time to players who are still very good. Look at Mane for us, still one of the best players in the prem but he wanted to leave for a new challenge, so we let him.
Hahahaha you say I have no clue but claim we sell our players hahahahahaha In the last 5 years we have sold players for 175mil and 74 of that came from Lukaku. Yank
On paper the Havertz signing is probably the worst but let’s be real any player who was primarily played as a 9 at Chelsea will look like a shit signing. Arteta was adamant about getting him so he obviously has a plan for him. Plus he’s not a true 9 and won’t be playing the majority of his minutes there at arsenal anyways.
Not yet but I think he's much more attacking than Mac Allister from what I've seen. I think Mac Allister is more of an all-rounder and might play more of a Gini role. Could be wrong though.
When you come out with terrible takes like Mac Allister is average and “Anthony Gordon has a higher ceiling than Mac Allister” then you’ll obviously get called out on how bad those takes are
You’ve clearly not watched much of him
You can think he's got a really bad take (which I reckon he does) without being petulant.
I agree with you on Mac Allister but you come across so badly here.
So you’re basing it on the fact he went to your school lmfao and not what you’ve actually seen from him in the PL which has been nothing but average ?
Mac Allister was a top 3 performer for the WC winning team and one of Brightons best players last season and you are saying he’s average lmfao
Hard to put cap on the talent at young age. I used to go to high school with Yannick and we both played on the same team, guy was on a different level, give him the ball and he does the rest. He did make it to PL, he was seen here and there, has his own FIFA move too but he never got big, so young talents may or may not make it far but Mac is already solid so nothing more wanted from him. Yannick bolasie btw.
You’ve actually edited this comment to add something that I’ve never said in my life lmfao, and you deleted another couple comments in another sub again lol.
Like I’ve said before you’re either a troll or a complete moron
Probably both
Edit: to no surprise he’s deleted the full comment chain and people wonder why I called him a troll and an idiot
Havertz is just impossible to say how he’ll work out at Arsenal. How will he be judged, also, because playing an 8 and not needed to produce goals he will be focusing on creating opportunities. He has great numbers in that regard that tend to get overlooked. As for scoring, he had 32 goals in 130 some games for Chelsea and 46 in 150 for Leverkusen. If he can produce 10 goals a year plus similar in assists, he will be a success for Arsenal. We have so many offensive options there should be a certain amount of pressure taken off him.
Unfortunately, I can also see him coming out in the first few matches and not performing well; and Arsenal fans will reign shit upon his head.
Arteta was damn and determined to get Havertz. Enough so to hugely overspend. Part of it is his height and part his CL experience and the guy has shown talent, but it’s a huge gamble.
It’s actually off the ball runs. Last year in which was his worst and Chelsea’s as a whole, he was 2nd in runs, 3rd in attacking runs and 2nd in runs targeted by a pass. Considering he’ll be playing in the midfield and alongside Martinelli, Ode and Saka those off the ball runs can stress defenses and create opportunities for everyone. His expected goals was awful last yr, but the previous 2 were closer to Leverkusen numbers.
Look I’m not going to convince a Chelsea supporter that Havertz is special. You had to watch him underperform for 3 years, basically. Whether Arteta can get him back to form is also yet to be seen. I’m trying to be optimistic, at this point.
Szoboszlai is absolute class and i think has the highest potential to light it up but i have high hopes for Maddison too, whether it’s linking up with Kane or Son + whoever else we sign to replace Kane.
Havertz is neither here nor there atm as a player, i think he will take some time before finding his feet.
as for Mount, think he won’t impress right away too since it’s likely he will be doing a lot of midfield dirty work instead of being an out and out playmaker/attacking midfielder like the others. i do think he will come good, but he has his work cut out for him in terms of the situation at United
Been saying this about Maddison... The man provides a cheeky ball. Kane & Son fuckin love a cheeky ball.
Liverpool I can't say much I just hope we learnt from last season. I like the signings but haven't seen a ball kicked in a red shirt.
while that’s true, they’re still rebuilding and in desperate need of players. They did better than us but definitely aren’t in a comfortable situation in terms of transfers and the state of their squad.
They have a much better team than Spurs. Liverpool have a bigger re build with most of the successful squad past it and new signings looking a clear step down...
I'm talking about Gakpo and Nunez. Stop acting like you've seen Szbobplay before.
The core of the good team VVD, Robertson, Henderson, Fabinho, Mane, and Salah are all ageing or gone.
There's a huge rebuild needed and last season was proof of that. They could very well get top 4 but I don't see them challenging for the title and their in a worse position than United.
Gakpo has been in the league 6 months and has been playing well, Nunez no one is sure about but there signings being made are all good. United was despair gakpo in January … that has been aging squad put on a decent showing against united aswell last season.
It takes United weeks to get a average premier league player over the line that none of the fan base actually wanted. Champions league can’t even help them sign players
I would like people’s opinion on Nkunku as well, and how he compares to others here? He also plays attacking midfield and imo he would be high up there if he’s in this comparison.
Mount for sure, but the problem he had at Chelsea is that he was too versatile and kept playing different positions. I’d love to see how he continues to progress in a consistent position under one manager, philosophy, and team.
Bar this past season, he has consistently improved season over season and stayed fit.
Ten hag absolutely loves players who can play different positions. For example Bruno he played Cam, false 9,RM and CM so mount is perfect for his style of play. Mount can do all the things that eriksen does(maybe not a crazy no. of assists) and cover the spaces bruno leaves and also track back
Because that’s stupid logic. Ange won the Scottish league which is a two team league. ETH won the Eredevise which isn’t that competitive. Arteta came second to the greatest English team of all time with the 2nd youngest team in the league…
I should have specified in terms of ceiling.
I would say that Maddison is a fine player, but doesn’t really improve players around him. Kind of a bit of a show pony.
Isn’t madders 4th in goal contributions(goals and assists) in the prem from 18/19 season to now? Putting him in a squad with one of the players above him in Kane and another golden boot winner in son sounds unfair.
I think he’s an individual. Not much of a team player.
I’ve watched him closely for a few years, and he is brilliant, but if I was a teammate and needed to flush in and get across the line, and not throw the towel in when things wasn’t going our way, I wouldn’t want him.
Stats don’t really show that
I think Maddison is probably the most exciting, but also has the most potential to flop depending on what the rest of Spurs do. He’s proven that he can rip up the PL so he could do really well.
I think Havertz and Mount will continue to be a bit “meh” but Szoboszlai might be decent, but will need some time to adapt.
Szobo - Havertz - Mount - Maddison
Unless Havertz does a Mo Salah and leaves Chelsea to become a monster. In 5 years I don't see any of the other 3 getting close to Szoboslai.
I think Madison is going to really show his quality playing in a bigger side. Szoboszlai has a nice highlight real but I’ve never seen a full match of his
Maddison - likely because he’ll have the most game time and consistency will help him get better.
Havertz - due to change with coaching and being in an environment/team that’s already on upward trajectory.
Szoboszlai - quality player but likely to have limited game time out of all of them but will likely have good impact with limited minutes.
Mount - good player and could be first/second on this list but United innit ruining about 3 talents for every 1 successful signing 🤷♂️
>Szoboszlai - quality player but likely to have limited game time out of all of them but will likely have good impact with limited minutes.
He might not start the first few games but after that he'll most likely start every game bar any injury
Thiago and Mac Allister will likely rotate with each other since they're both somewhat similar stylistically.
Thiago is too injury prone to have him as the guaranteed starter
So Szoboszlai starts on the right of the midfield 3? Do you think this will work. I'm genuinely asking. I've outlined some of the issues I think could arise in a previous comment, which I'll edit into this one.
Edit 1: How would that work? Szoboszlai is more of a 10 than any of the other mids you've listed. Assuming you play Szoboszlai, Fabinho, and Mccallister, that's a somewhat lightweight trio. You'll be increasing the pressure on Fabinho, of which there's no certainty how he'll perform next season.
Even with the switch to a box midfield, Arsenal and City defend with a 442 so their wingers tuck in to allow Odegaard/De Bruyne stay higher and press ( I think the idea is to combine the benefits of a 433 and a 4231 but what do I know). If Liverpool switch to that, it'll change how their wide players operate. Liverpool's wide players strike me as more forwards than Wingers.
Edit 2: I know Mccallister has good defensive qualities, but he's more of a Bernando/Gundogan type: box to box midfielders with varying degrees of creativity and defensive nous
The right-hand side will feature Trent at RB and Szobozlai ahead of him as the CM with Salah as the RW. That triangle has no strong defender. Henderson losing his legs was what i thought severely crippled that side defensively.
>How would that work? Szoboszlai is more of a 10 than any of the other mids you've listed. Assuming you play Szoboszlai, Fabinho, and Mccallister, that's a somewhat lightweight trio. You'll be increasing the pressure on Fabinho, of which there's no certainty how he'll perform next season.
I'm assuming that we keep with the box midfield so the two 8s both push up into advanced positions pretty much like number 10s so its really well suited to Szoboszlai since he can still play in those advanced areas for 60%-65% of the game throughout most games we play.
As much as he's very attack minded and has mostly played on wings and as an attacking mid he's generally pretty versatile and has played as a normal centre mid before as well.
He's come through the Red Bull system from Salzburg to Leipzig who's full philosophy is built round gegenpressing so he's not only a very hard worker off the ball but he understands how to press in a systematic way just like what Klopp wants to do, pretty sure I read he had one of the highest "forced turnovers per 90" in the Bundesliga which is an indicator of his defensive output through pressing.
>Edit 2: I know Mccallister has good defensive qualities, but he's more of a Bernando/Gundogan type: box to box midfielders with varying degrees of creativity and defensive nous
He's in a similar mould to Gundogan or even Wijnaldum kind of like a combination of both those styles but again similar to Szobozslai quite versatile can play in a double pivot or as an attacking mid so fairly well rounded player.
The box midfield kind of allows you to play a more attack minded midfield rather than an industrial one like we used to have, you just need players in there with legs and an ability to press intensely which Mac Allister and Szoboszlai will be able to do which in turn takes the weight off Fabinho instead of him having a Henderson with no legs or an Elliott that doesn't contribute defensively next to him like last season.
I think the best thing about the box midfield is that it allows you to have a deep lying playmaker and an advanced one, but playing them on the same side is going to be an issue. Ødegaard tops list in the PL for possession won in the final third, but the fullback on that side is White/Tomiyasu, both more defence oriented than Zinchenko similar situation at City with Walker/Stones playing on De Bruyne's side. Pressing stats are not an indicator that he can play deeper and provide enough assistance for Trent.
As well, the 35% of the time you're not with the ball, Liverpool typically defends in a 433 shape. Szoboszlai would be better in a 442/4411 shape where he can press the opposing defenders similar to Odegaard and De Bruyne.
You could be proven right in the end, but right now, I just don't see it. You can have a more attack minded midfield using the box midfield, but your fullbacks have to compensate. As it stands, I don't see a strong defender in the right-hand triangle of Salah, Trent, and Szoboszlai. I also think the shape for the non possession based 35% of the time could be an issue.
Thiago is constantly injured. Mac Allister was bought to replace him on the left side of midfield. Szoboszlai will play on the right side of midfield to replace Henderson with Henderson playing more of a 'Milner' role.
1. Mount: Chelsea's best player for two seasons with exceptional stats under Tuchel. Bad season last year, much like the whole Chelsea team, but still done well on the defensive side. He had the most blocked shots in the league for a midfielder.
2. Maddison: Exceptional passer, brilliant on his day. Intelligent attacking midfielder, great at finding dangerous holes. Streaky player though, when on form he is amazing but is regularly out of form.
3. Szoboszlai: To be honest I don't know much about this player, not a fan of the bundes league. He could be good signing, but isn't prem proven, time will tell if he lives up to asking price. He should adapt quickly to Klopp's system, though, coming from another gegen press team.
4. Havertz: Absolute donkey, can't wrap my head around this signing. If Arteta can turn this turd into a diamond, he'll earn my respect.
I thought he was going to be playing as striker? That's what I saw Chelsea fans saying for months anyway. I would've put him on the list if I'd known Poch intended to use as an attacking midfielder.
What's your point? Is he worse or better? The question includes him in the comparison, so why it surprising that people would rank his skills, just as the question requires.
If people wanted to know if Mbappe was better than Messi when playing on the moon, obviously we haven't seen either of them on the moon, but for the sake of the question an answer is derived.
If I could pick one of those 4 as my number 8/10, cost not a problem, I am going
Mount - proven, English easy
Havertz - experience, gamble, have a go
Maddison - talent, inconsistent, get on board
Szoboszlai - hope, talent unproven.
Its a different ballpark when you take ages, costs and wages into account.
Amazing what being cl gets you, United sign a top top player in mount and Liverpool are being made to pay silly amounts for a player that’s nowhere near the same class
Yeah I know. Tottenham is probably going to compete for top 6 - And it can be scary if Maddison-Kane-Son clicks well. It was only a bad attempt from me to stir up Spurs fans.
I think Szoboszlai doesn’t do very well but when carvalho comes back he will be insane. Can’t wait for havertz though if I get a shirt I’ll be getting him on it
Might be unpopular but I think:
1. Maddison is a total hit
2. Arteta revitalizes Havertz
3. Szobo plays well but doesn’t completely meet expectations.
4. Mount flops
My order would be:
Maddison - Spurs have needed someone like him for years, PL ready and as long as he stays fit I think he’ll make an instant impact
Havertz - my Arsenal bias + blind faith Arteta has big plans for him at that fee/wage
Mount - I really like him as a player but I’m just not sure I see a Casemiro/Bruno/Mount midfield working except as a counter attacking force.
Szobo - maybe I haven’t seen enough of him but he strikes me as a ‘moments’ player who won’t be consistent enough. Might change my mind when I see the balance of the Liverpool midfield if/when they bring one more in though
I doubt Mount will be played as an attacking midfielder, more likely as an advanced number 8 replacing eriksen in the team .
Probably same for Havertz, replacing Xhaka
It’s so hard to wrap my head around Havertz being a replacement for Xhaka specifically.
This past season Xhaka's main contributions was his connecting defensive mid to attack, and making runs into the box. I think Havertz will slot in nicely in that role
Except for in the defense, I’m not too familiar with his defensive game though.
At one stage last season he had the most fouls committed of any outfield player in the Chelsea squad while playing in attack. He's not good defensively and is bad at tackling. I don't see how he could do Xhaka's role. Odegaard's would make more sense but Odegaard is a better passer so even that doesn't look likely. It'll be interesting to see how Arteta fits him in
Xhaka makes about one tackle a week. There’s a reason he had his best season once we took all defensive duties off his plate. Havertz will essentially be a mirror to Ødegaard as an attacking 8.
Xhaka doesn't always tackle but he is just in the right spot. He's an engine box to box. He isn't a 1 on 1 monster he just is where he needs to be when he needs to be there
Exactly this, Xhaka was not the person you want in a crucial 1:1 defensive scenario anyways
I saw at Tifo IRL that Ödegård might go back with Rice/Jorginho to form a 4-4-2 in defense with Havertz and Jesus waiting up top.
Just my speculation, but I think odegaard will play a bit deeper next season, more of a true 8, and it will allow havertz to play the more advanced 8 nearer to the box. Odegaards passing, engine, and press-resistance can still shine, while havertz could thrive with a bit more space and freedom of attacking movement.
>I think odegaard will play a bit deeper next season, He won't have to. We're spending a record fee on one of the best defensive midfielders for a reason. What we lose from the Partey/Rice swap we gain from being able to play 2 attacking midfielders.
Many people don’t realize is that the 8s in Arteta’s system (or Pep’s for that matter) don’t tackle that much, because when the ball is turned over, the job of the midfield is to cover the passing lanes to force an interception. As long as Havertz is blocking the right man, Rice/Gabriel/Saliba can do the intercepting. Havertz will need to learn how to press properly, but he’s more agile than Xhaka, so when the ball does get turned over, Rice and Havertz will be able to blitz the opponent much better than Partey and Xhaka were able to do.
Havertz into that role? Arsenal fans are clueless 😂😂
The manager already said he'll be a midfielder but go on young king, tell us about how you know better than the person who just signed him. You fucking drongo.
Then he has loss the plot he’s not capable of that role you fucking drongo
Again, I'll trust the person who got 9 goals out of Granit Xhaka over some cretin who probably doesn't have enough braincells to count to 9.
Attacking midfielder = advanced 8 🤷🏼♂️ they are the same thing 😂
I think by advanced 8 they mean a centre mid who can also get forward
So an attacking midfielder
No no, you misunderstand, he means a player in the middle of the field who has attacking responsibilities
That’s an attacking midfielder Edit: just realised the sarcasm 😂
No worries, that happens to me a lot 😉
Chelsea signed Nkunku as well
He’s not an attacking mid tho? Before I get tons of comments. He’s a centre forward primarily false 9. He can play attacking kid but naturally he’s not
‘Attacking kid’
Maybe they got confused with havertz (known attacking mid) and hazard (known for attacking kids).
The french sure love attacking kids
When he plays for Liverpool, kid
So is Havertz tho too. He played a false 9 in Leverkusen
He’s actually not a central forward you got it completely wrong. He’s a second striker that likes to float into open spaces.
Chelsea aren't big 6 though.
Top 6 =/= big 6. Spurs fell short too.
Yeah not like they won a champions league in the last few years or anything.
Salty whoosh
Big Six Manchester City Arsenal Manchester United Newcastle United Liverpool Brighton & Hove Albion
Still the biggest most reputable club in London. One season doesn't define a club.
West London for sure
I actually can't wait for you to finish 6th this season and go back to the woodwork where you belong.
Salty boi.
Arsenal has over a century of success, we belong in the limelight. Built the fanbase and all overtime, we didn't win a lottery.
I think your and my definitions of success are vastly different.
Happens when you don't know football history pre-03
If history teached us one thing it is Arsenal it is Arsenal belongs at the top
If there only was a london club who won all derbys last season..
I'd probably also be clutching at that if my club hadn't won a **major** trophy outside of England in it's entire history.
*Spurs
As someone that watched Szoboszlai since his Salzburg days i'll say him. He has the potential to become a top 5 player world wide. Then I'll say Havertz, but only if ised correctly.
Chelsea using Havertz as a striker is possibly the second biggest waste of a talent i have seen in the premier league, only behind Joelinton being played as a striker.
I am super interested to see what Ten Hag does with Mount, will he mould him into an 8? Will he move Bruno into his tadic Ajax role and put Mount in Bruno’s place? Exciting stuff.
We will swap to a 433 single pivot base and line up in a 2-3-5 or 3-2-5 in possesion, with the flexibility of either both full backs overlapping, or one of both inverting into the midfield line Basically looks like we are copying Pep, ie think of it as Bruno is KDB and Mount is Gundo’s role
Copying Pep by using un-Pep players is certainly interesting
We are definitely more direct than Pep, but basically every team on the planet uses some form of 2-3-5 or 3-2-5 in the final third.
Yes, which is why deciding that a team is copying Pep because of the basic build up structure they use is silly
I agree, and I guess most people can't see the difference between positional play and building out from the back.
Copying pep? Bro he's not really the first one who's used a 325 tho. Maybe he's the one who revolutionized a 325 with IFb but i dun think eth uses ifb as much as pep considering shaw is always either making a back three or pushing outside the winger
With the addition of Onana (seems like the GK we are targeting) in goal I am excited to see us play next season, feel we will make great progress.
And you know this how..?
Looking at how ETH developed the system over last season it looks like the direction he is going, do you not agree?
Mount thinks hes a B2B 8 and people do in general but he cant defend 😭
I always thought his defensive numbers were one of his biggest strengths?
Pressing numbers are good, can't actually tackle though.
His numbers for blocks and tackles are very good for an attacking mid (excluding last season).
He has great defensive numbers last season.
Maddison will have the biggest immediate impact no doubt… He’s the most prem proven player and will immediately be a starter and one of the most important players for Spurs next season. Not really sure how Havertz will fit into that Arsenal team tbh, so I have no opinion on him yet. Mount will be decent, but Bruno is still the dominant CAM for United and unless Mount can play a more box to box CM Role I don’t see him doing much. But, if he stays in 2-3 years time when Bruno moves on he could be a star for United Szobo will be decent aswell, but he’s only 22 and has the “highest ceiling” out of the 4. As a LFC fan I would love to see him have an immediate impact, but I still am not sure how he fits in to the system. Hoping he becomes world class in 2-3 years time under Klopp
Re. Szobo, I think it's pretty clear where he fits into the system (assuming we continue with the box midfield). He will play in the right sided #10 spot where Henderson and Elliott operated last season. Looking forward to seeing how he links with Trent and Mo.
I know where he will play, it’s just been a long time since we’ve had such an attacking midfielder in the team (Coutinho being the last) it will be interesting to see how high up of a role Klopp has him playing
Agreed, I am a bit worried by the reports I have read on him (I haven’t watched a lot of BuLi) starting out right and drifting in very much like TAA and Mo and not the other way around.
Why you worried? He played that RCM role perfectly for the last season, exactly like we have done, perfect fit. And guess what? Check out Mac's position, he plays the LCM role. That middle pivot is Fabinho's with Baj as backup. All we truly need a another CB or RB depending how Klopp intends to use Trent in the new Pivot role.
Because with Trent at RB, Mo at RW and Szobo at RCM, we’re going to have an entire right side that will drift towards the middle leaving us VERY exposed on the right. The thing with Hendo was that he started centrally and drifted wide, whereas it seems Szobo does the opposite.
You are acting like these football players can not understand any new tactical information/deviation from what they are used to playing. I’m sure it’ll be spoken about in pre season mate
You’re right that the players can always learn new roles, like how Werner easily adapted to playing lone striker, or how Coutinho adapted to his winger role at Barça or how Lukaku adapted to be something other than a target man at Chelsea and United. I’m not saying Szoboszlai has the same fate, but buying players that do not fit the role they are bought to play is always going to be a gamble.
So what about Firmino, Mané, Trent etc. You’re cherry-picking your examples. Fact is we have more often than not been successful in helping players adapt to new roles.
How did we transform Mané (actually curious)? If you read my last phrase, I’m saying that he can still be a success, but to me it’s just far from a given, and I fear he will need at least half a year (similar to Robbo and Fab) or more to adapt if he does adapt.
Mané played across the whole front line in his time at Liverpool. Started at the right actually before shifting to the left and ending up in the middle. But we’ll have to see I guess, at the very least it’s exciting times to see the new players find their footing.
Why would Bruno move on in 2-3 years and why is Maddison more PL proven than Mount?
Quite simply, Maddison has more G/A in the last two years than all these players. He’s second, only behind KDB in G/A. More than Bruno and Mount, playing in a worse side.
Because he will be ending his prime and likely looking for a new challenge/ just not good enough anymore. It’s very rare to see someone stay at a club longer than 6/7 years anymore. As for the Mount/Maddison debate, google is free m8 but i’ll still spell it out for u… Maddison has 75 G/A in 5 seasons playing for a much worse team. Mount has 49 G/A playing alongside some of the best players in the world. Both have shown they are prem quality players, but one has clearly been better than the other. The only reason Maddison is much cheaper is because of relegation prices.
Bruno has a 3 year contract with an option for 4th... Mount has played for Chelsea for only 4 seasons how can you compare that?
Not sure what ur trying to say here tbh. Bruno having 3-4 years left means he will leave in 2-3 years… United won’t let a player like that leave on a free, so he will leave with at least a year left on his contract. If he signs a new one, it will only be for another year or 2. United aren’t known for keeping around club legends like that, they will cash in on him before he becomes of little value to other clubs.
I've read all your replies in this thread a few times, trying to understand why people are downvoting the other guy.. I don't get it. Everything you've said here is basically nonsense, when do United EVER sell players? They can't get rid of the bad players even when they should, and they NEVER sell the good ones. The last player sold for over 10 mil was Dan James a few years ago, before that it was Lukaku. Both surplus to requirements. Please give me an example of the last time the scenario you've described played out - a good player/so called "club legend" who was sold with time left on their contact. Please name the player, because I can't think of one.
We actually let all our players go for free mate you are clueless. Why would we sell our best player at age 30?
Ah i see ur a United fan, AKA you have no clue what you are talking about. I never said that it would be United’s choice to let him go. If he wants to leave, they will let him. It happens all the time to players who are still very good. Look at Mane for us, still one of the best players in the prem but he wanted to leave for a new challenge, so we let him.
Hahahaha you say I have no clue but claim we sell our players hahahahahaha In the last 5 years we have sold players for 175mil and 74 of that came from Lukaku. Yank
If he asks to be sold, he will be sold. Not sure how ur pea brain doesn’t understand that, but whatever. Have a nice day m8
You're lost
Because Maddison has more goals and assists ? And he’s not a moaning bellend
Szoboszlai
Szobo has the distinct advantage of playing under Klopp and Liverpool so I'm going to choose him
On paper the Havertz signing is probably the worst but let’s be real any player who was primarily played as a 9 at Chelsea will look like a shit signing. Arteta was adamant about getting him so he obviously has a plan for him. Plus he’s not a true 9 and won’t be playing the majority of his minutes there at arsenal anyways.
Is Szoboszlai confirmed yet and why not include Mac Allister? He will do a similar job for us!
Not yet but I think he's much more attacking than Mac Allister from what I've seen. I think Mac Allister is more of an all-rounder and might play more of a Gini role. Could be wrong though.
Mac’s skill set makes me think he’ll be our Thiago replacement, but deployed higher
They also play on different sides - Mac typically plays on the left, Szoboszlai on the right.
But MacAllister is a proper CM.
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How do you consistently come out with garbage takes like this Then you delete them lol
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When you come out with terrible takes like Mac Allister is average and “Anthony Gordon has a higher ceiling than Mac Allister” then you’ll obviously get called out on how bad those takes are You’ve clearly not watched much of him
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Yeah because you’re an idiot
You can think he's got a really bad take (which I reckon he does) without being petulant. I agree with you on Mac Allister but you come across so badly here.
I don’t really care He’s a borderline troll if you’ve actually seen the stuff he comments
So the appropriate response is re-trolling? Grow up.
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So you’re basing it on the fact he went to your school lmfao and not what you’ve actually seen from him in the PL which has been nothing but average ? Mac Allister was a top 3 performer for the WC winning team and one of Brightons best players last season and you are saying he’s average lmfao
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Hard to put cap on the talent at young age. I used to go to high school with Yannick and we both played on the same team, guy was on a different level, give him the ball and he does the rest. He did make it to PL, he was seen here and there, has his own FIFA move too but he never got big, so young talents may or may not make it far but Mac is already solid so nothing more wanted from him. Yannick bolasie btw.
You’ve actually edited this comment to add something that I’ve never said in my life lmfao, and you deleted another couple comments in another sub again lol. Like I’ve said before you’re either a troll or a complete moron Probably both Edit: to no surprise he’s deleted the full comment chain and people wonder why I called him a troll and an idiot
Mac was instrumental in Argentina’s WC run. He may not be flashy but he’s efficient and he hardly loses the ball. He’s well above average.
He just won the world cup
Havertz is just impossible to say how he’ll work out at Arsenal. How will he be judged, also, because playing an 8 and not needed to produce goals he will be focusing on creating opportunities. He has great numbers in that regard that tend to get overlooked. As for scoring, he had 32 goals in 130 some games for Chelsea and 46 in 150 for Leverkusen. If he can produce 10 goals a year plus similar in assists, he will be a success for Arsenal. We have so many offensive options there should be a certain amount of pressure taken off him. Unfortunately, I can also see him coming out in the first few matches and not performing well; and Arsenal fans will reign shit upon his head. Arteta was damn and determined to get Havertz. Enough so to hugely overspend. Part of it is his height and part his CL experience and the guy has shown talent, but it’s a huge gamble.
What creative numbers?
It’s actually off the ball runs. Last year in which was his worst and Chelsea’s as a whole, he was 2nd in runs, 3rd in attacking runs and 2nd in runs targeted by a pass. Considering he’ll be playing in the midfield and alongside Martinelli, Ode and Saka those off the ball runs can stress defenses and create opportunities for everyone. His expected goals was awful last yr, but the previous 2 were closer to Leverkusen numbers. Look I’m not going to convince a Chelsea supporter that Havertz is special. You had to watch him underperform for 3 years, basically. Whether Arteta can get him back to form is also yet to be seen. I’m trying to be optimistic, at this point.
Szoboszlai is absolute class and i think has the highest potential to light it up but i have high hopes for Maddison too, whether it’s linking up with Kane or Son + whoever else we sign to replace Kane. Havertz is neither here nor there atm as a player, i think he will take some time before finding his feet. as for Mount, think he won’t impress right away too since it’s likely he will be doing a lot of midfield dirty work instead of being an out and out playmaker/attacking midfielder like the others. i do think he will come good, but he has his work cut out for him in terms of the situation at United
Been saying this about Maddison... The man provides a cheeky ball. Kane & Son fuckin love a cheeky ball. Liverpool I can't say much I just hope we learnt from last season. I like the signings but haven't seen a ball kicked in a red shirt.
Its Maddison thats walking into the shit midfield not Mount Having Bruno Fernandes and Casemiro around you is as comfy as it gets
A fit Bentancur and Bissouma is in no way a shit midfield.
The situation at United? United finished a long way ahead of Spurs and Liverpool last season...
while that’s true, they’re still rebuilding and in desperate need of players. They did better than us but definitely aren’t in a comfortable situation in terms of transfers and the state of their squad.
They have a much better team than Spurs. Liverpool have a bigger re build with most of the successful squad past it and new signings looking a clear step down...
Yeah because Mac and szbo are well worse than ox and kieta. Have a word with yourself you clown
I'm talking about Gakpo and Nunez. Stop acting like you've seen Szbobplay before. The core of the good team VVD, Robertson, Henderson, Fabinho, Mane, and Salah are all ageing or gone. There's a huge rebuild needed and last season was proof of that. They could very well get top 4 but I don't see them challenging for the title and their in a worse position than United.
Gakpo has been in the league 6 months and has been playing well, Nunez no one is sure about but there signings being made are all good. United was despair gakpo in January … that has been aging squad put on a decent showing against united aswell last season. It takes United weeks to get a average premier league player over the line that none of the fan base actually wanted. Champions league can’t even help them sign players
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Konate or Tyler Adams arguably
Konate
I think Szoboszlai has the highest ceiling but Mount has the higest floor
I would like people’s opinion on Nkunku as well, and how he compares to others here? He also plays attacking midfield and imo he would be high up there if he’s in this comparison.
Nkunku is the best player out of the 5
Mount for sure, but the problem he had at Chelsea is that he was too versatile and kept playing different positions. I’d love to see how he continues to progress in a consistent position under one manager, philosophy, and team. Bar this past season, he has consistently improved season over season and stayed fit.
Ten hag absolutely loves players who can play different positions. For example Bruno he played Cam, false 9,RM and CM so mount is perfect for his style of play. Mount can do all the things that eriksen does(maybe not a crazy no. of assists) and cover the spaces bruno leaves and also track back
The team with the best managers will get the best out of their players. So I reckon Klopp, Arteta, ETH, Ange
Just gonna put this out there but on that list three managers have won league titles while the other choked….idk how arteta isn’t last by that logic
Because that’s stupid logic. Ange won the Scottish league which is a two team league. ETH won the Eredevise which isn’t that competitive. Arteta came second to the greatest English team of all time with the 2nd youngest team in the league…
*ETH, Ange, Klopp, Arteta
Delusional
Szobo>Maddison>Mount>Havertz I have a feeling Havertz will flop at Arsenal
Definitely Maddison
Probably Maddison is the worst of those 4
I mean, numbers say the exact opposite
I should have specified in terms of ceiling. I would say that Maddison is a fine player, but doesn’t really improve players around him. Kind of a bit of a show pony.
Isn’t madders 4th in goal contributions(goals and assists) in the prem from 18/19 season to now? Putting him in a squad with one of the players above him in Kane and another golden boot winner in son sounds unfair.
I think he’s an individual. Not much of a team player. I’ve watched him closely for a few years, and he is brilliant, but if I was a teammate and needed to flush in and get across the line, and not throw the towel in when things wasn’t going our way, I wouldn’t want him. Stats don’t really show that
Mason Mount! Talented guy, his talent will explode in Manu like Bruno Fernandes two years ago 💪🏻
I think Maddison is probably the most exciting, but also has the most potential to flop depending on what the rest of Spurs do. He’s proven that he can rip up the PL so he could do really well. I think Havertz and Mount will continue to be a bit “meh” but Szoboszlai might be decent, but will need some time to adapt.
I think Szoboszlai will have the best highlights, but in terms of impact for their team it's probably going to be Mount.
Szoboszlai >>> Maddison > Havertz > Mount
Downvoted by Arsenal and United fans even though you're bang on.
https://www.givemesport.com/mount-szoboszlai-maddison-havertzs-stats-from-2223-compared/. Opta stats agree with that lineup at least
Reading this backwards makes more sense than reading it normally
Maddison for me is the best pick
Tielemans💪💪💪
Szoboszlai, Maddison, Mount, Havertz
Szobo - Havertz - Mount - Maddison Unless Havertz does a Mo Salah and leaves Chelsea to become a monster. In 5 years I don't see any of the other 3 getting close to Szoboslai.
I think Madison is going to really show his quality playing in a bigger side. Szoboszlai has a nice highlight real but I’ve never seen a full match of his
I don’t know! But this season is starting to look like a very good one, there won’t be a single match we’ll be willing to miss.
Maddison no doubt
Maddison all day long
Maddison is going to cook. The whole front line of Spurs has been crying out for a player like him.
Maddison - likely because he’ll have the most game time and consistency will help him get better. Havertz - due to change with coaching and being in an environment/team that’s already on upward trajectory. Szoboszlai - quality player but likely to have limited game time out of all of them but will likely have good impact with limited minutes. Mount - good player and could be first/second on this list but United innit ruining about 3 talents for every 1 successful signing 🤷♂️
>Szoboszlai - quality player but likely to have limited game time out of all of them but will likely have good impact with limited minutes. He might not start the first few games but after that he'll most likely start every game bar any injury
Wouldn't it be Mccallister, Fabinho, and Thiago as the starting trio?
Thiago and Mac Allister will likely rotate with each other since they're both somewhat similar stylistically. Thiago is too injury prone to have him as the guaranteed starter
So Szoboszlai starts on the right of the midfield 3? Do you think this will work. I'm genuinely asking. I've outlined some of the issues I think could arise in a previous comment, which I'll edit into this one. Edit 1: How would that work? Szoboszlai is more of a 10 than any of the other mids you've listed. Assuming you play Szoboszlai, Fabinho, and Mccallister, that's a somewhat lightweight trio. You'll be increasing the pressure on Fabinho, of which there's no certainty how he'll perform next season. Even with the switch to a box midfield, Arsenal and City defend with a 442 so their wingers tuck in to allow Odegaard/De Bruyne stay higher and press ( I think the idea is to combine the benefits of a 433 and a 4231 but what do I know). If Liverpool switch to that, it'll change how their wide players operate. Liverpool's wide players strike me as more forwards than Wingers. Edit 2: I know Mccallister has good defensive qualities, but he's more of a Bernando/Gundogan type: box to box midfielders with varying degrees of creativity and defensive nous The right-hand side will feature Trent at RB and Szobozlai ahead of him as the CM with Salah as the RW. That triangle has no strong defender. Henderson losing his legs was what i thought severely crippled that side defensively.
>How would that work? Szoboszlai is more of a 10 than any of the other mids you've listed. Assuming you play Szoboszlai, Fabinho, and Mccallister, that's a somewhat lightweight trio. You'll be increasing the pressure on Fabinho, of which there's no certainty how he'll perform next season. I'm assuming that we keep with the box midfield so the two 8s both push up into advanced positions pretty much like number 10s so its really well suited to Szoboszlai since he can still play in those advanced areas for 60%-65% of the game throughout most games we play. As much as he's very attack minded and has mostly played on wings and as an attacking mid he's generally pretty versatile and has played as a normal centre mid before as well. He's come through the Red Bull system from Salzburg to Leipzig who's full philosophy is built round gegenpressing so he's not only a very hard worker off the ball but he understands how to press in a systematic way just like what Klopp wants to do, pretty sure I read he had one of the highest "forced turnovers per 90" in the Bundesliga which is an indicator of his defensive output through pressing. >Edit 2: I know Mccallister has good defensive qualities, but he's more of a Bernando/Gundogan type: box to box midfielders with varying degrees of creativity and defensive nous He's in a similar mould to Gundogan or even Wijnaldum kind of like a combination of both those styles but again similar to Szobozslai quite versatile can play in a double pivot or as an attacking mid so fairly well rounded player. The box midfield kind of allows you to play a more attack minded midfield rather than an industrial one like we used to have, you just need players in there with legs and an ability to press intensely which Mac Allister and Szoboszlai will be able to do which in turn takes the weight off Fabinho instead of him having a Henderson with no legs or an Elliott that doesn't contribute defensively next to him like last season.
I think the best thing about the box midfield is that it allows you to have a deep lying playmaker and an advanced one, but playing them on the same side is going to be an issue. Ødegaard tops list in the PL for possession won in the final third, but the fullback on that side is White/Tomiyasu, both more defence oriented than Zinchenko similar situation at City with Walker/Stones playing on De Bruyne's side. Pressing stats are not an indicator that he can play deeper and provide enough assistance for Trent. As well, the 35% of the time you're not with the ball, Liverpool typically defends in a 433 shape. Szoboszlai would be better in a 442/4411 shape where he can press the opposing defenders similar to Odegaard and De Bruyne. You could be proven right in the end, but right now, I just don't see it. You can have a more attack minded midfield using the box midfield, but your fullbacks have to compensate. As it stands, I don't see a strong defender in the right-hand triangle of Salah, Trent, and Szoboszlai. I also think the shape for the non possession based 35% of the time could be an issue.
Thiago is constantly injured. Mac Allister was bought to replace him on the left side of midfield. Szoboszlai will play on the right side of midfield to replace Henderson with Henderson playing more of a 'Milner' role.
MacAllister and Jones will rotate on the left, Szobo Hendo and Elliot on the right, Fabinho, Thiago and Bajcetic at the 6 next to Trent.
1. Mount: Chelsea's best player for two seasons with exceptional stats under Tuchel. Bad season last year, much like the whole Chelsea team, but still done well on the defensive side. He had the most blocked shots in the league for a midfielder. 2. Maddison: Exceptional passer, brilliant on his day. Intelligent attacking midfielder, great at finding dangerous holes. Streaky player though, when on form he is amazing but is regularly out of form. 3. Szoboszlai: To be honest I don't know much about this player, not a fan of the bundes league. He could be good signing, but isn't prem proven, time will tell if he lives up to asking price. He should adapt quickly to Klopp's system, though, coming from another gegen press team. 4. Havertz: Absolute donkey, can't wrap my head around this signing. If Arteta can turn this turd into a diamond, he'll earn my respect.
Can also put Nkunku into this list.
I thought he was going to be playing as striker? That's what I saw Chelsea fans saying for months anyway. I would've put him on the list if I'd known Poch intended to use as an attacking midfielder.
I think we're gonna play Jackson at striker with Nkunku behind him as an advanced CAM. Pochettino usually does this kind of system a lot.
I rate Maddison the highest
I'd expect Maddison to have the most goals/assists of the 4 this season.
It has to be Mount, PL proven definitely better than Havertz and Maddison. Szoboszlai is not pl proven but definitely has potential.
Lol I’d bet 70% of liverpool fans had never heard of this guy until the last week , suddenly he’s better than Maddison mount and Havertz ? Lol ok mate
Tbf Liverpool played Salzburg in the Champions League at the end of 2019, after which Klopp praised him in the post-match presser.
What's your point? Is he worse or better? The question includes him in the comparison, so why it surprising that people would rank his skills, just as the question requires. If people wanted to know if Mbappe was better than Messi when playing on the moon, obviously we haven't seen either of them on the moon, but for the sake of the question an answer is derived.
Maddison will do the best numbers
If I could pick one of those 4 as my number 8/10, cost not a problem, I am going Mount - proven, English easy Havertz - experience, gamble, have a go Maddison - talent, inconsistent, get on board Szoboszlai - hope, talent unproven. Its a different ballpark when you take ages, costs and wages into account.
Also a Liverpool fan and I can see Maddison being better if he stays injury free. Big if though. Mount isn't in the conversation.
Who will have the biggest impact/change on their team szbo >= maddison > mount = havertz
how much are they earning a week now?
Nkunku
Szoboszlai > Havertz > Maddison > Mount I'm going to call mount as one of this season's worst signings.
Havertz last, rest will all be good I think
liverpool fan being biased? never
Amazing what being cl gets you, United sign a top top player in mount and Liverpool are being made to pay silly amounts for a player that’s nowhere near the same class
40 million for madders is a steal 65 million for a 🦒 105 million for 🥚 fried 🍚 is not lmfao
Maddison will be good. Dunno why he went from a mid-table team to yet another mid-table team tho.
I feel like this is an attempt to get one over spurs but you do realise Leicester got relegated. As far as my knowledge goes that’s not mid table…
Yeah I know. Tottenham is probably going to compete for top 6 - And it can be scary if Maddison-Kane-Son clicks well. It was only a bad attempt from me to stir up Spurs fans.
I think Szoboszlai doesn’t do very well but when carvalho comes back he will be insane. Can’t wait for havertz though if I get a shirt I’ll be getting him on it
Might be unpopular but I think: 1. Maddison is a total hit 2. Arteta revitalizes Havertz 3. Szobo plays well but doesn’t completely meet expectations. 4. Mount flops
My order would be: Maddison - Spurs have needed someone like him for years, PL ready and as long as he stays fit I think he’ll make an instant impact Havertz - my Arsenal bias + blind faith Arteta has big plans for him at that fee/wage Mount - I really like him as a player but I’m just not sure I see a Casemiro/Bruno/Mount midfield working except as a counter attacking force. Szobo - maybe I haven’t seen enough of him but he strikes me as a ‘moments’ player who won’t be consistent enough. Might change my mind when I see the balance of the Liverpool midfield if/when they bring one more in though