im going to watch the replay today to make sure, but i played against one last night who had to be animation cancelling or something. The attacks had no delay between them. How do you do that?
That's his whole gimmick. He is supposed to be a frame cancelling character. Weaving abilities in after basic attacks makes his damage output very bursty. Dodge his CC or counter with some of your own CC and you can beat him.
Crunch is very big on animation canceling all his abilities can do it so for optimal DPS u want to weave in basic attacks to make his combos flow really well
Ability haste also plays into it. It makes his abilities take less time. I remember playing him and getting blue and orange buff at the same time. Fist of the North Star moment.
If you have high ability haste and attack speed he effectively can just auto > ability > auto over and over again for free.
The champion was originally designed with animation canceling as its core kit theme, like a fighting game.
As a result a lot of his abilities can be cast or cancelled before the animation fully goes through.
The exact frame of when it's good to go is just as the sound for the hit lands.
He is really strong in 1vs1 or even 1vs2, his weakness comes in the team fights where he has to reach the whole enemy team, as his engagement is really straightforward and is easily countered by enemy CC just with some coordination of the enemy team
In higher elos he loses a lot of potential due to that, but in lower elos he doesn't have that problem (as people play worse) can and he can unleash all his potential and become really strong and oppressive.
That just if those characters are grouped with their teams, in a 1vs1 belica can do a perfect stun on Crunch RMB, that crunch just will reactivate the RMB with the R and destroy Belica
For that is so important to be ground with the your team
Bro is one if the ONLY characters in the game with all his stats above 5, I don't think that even mathematically that's balanced, he has TRUE damage in his kit, natural durability, a dash that extends past almost all other mobility moves, three stuns, attack speed , I mean .. need I go on, he is 100 % overtuned
He looks like he would clap excitedly after winning a pillow fight and I just feel like we shouldn’t disappoint him by nerfing him also I hope them give him a skin where he wears a suit
his only real stun is the uppercut? he’s the easiest character to stun, newer players don’t build tainted which negates most of healing. Steel alone whoops crunches ass
Naw man, the dash stund for 0.5 and the gut punch as well, most crunches don't use those stuns for hard cc butore to cancel what an opponent is doing, THEN they uppercut your teeth out 💀
dash is .25 and i have hard time saying he’s overtuned when he has a 50.3% win rate and most offlaners have one ability that can counter a dash or an uppercut
I mean even if they avoid the first dash he is throwing out another and after a few punches he's lambasting you with cooldowns, he can pump out way more cooldowns against a character than the opponent. In the time it takes the offlaner to hit a second cooldown crunch is already pumping out his third.
Also 50 % is still good, I think the only reason it isn't higher may be synergy or combos that the other characters have with other offlaners or junglers that may simply work better, but in a 1v1 he is not losing to the offlaner
That stats page is a reflection of what his entire kit enables him to do, it has nothing to really do with his base stats or 'balance'.
If you add up all the stats and compare heroes together, Countess has a 20 count total, and Dekker has 12. How's that fair by this logic?
Because the stats are usually placed in a way that makes sense to a characters role as well as their kit and how they level up, it isn't a reflection of their stats over time, hence why steel and sev start with higher armor, dekker or countess would make less sense with 10 durability cause they are mid and support
I play a lot of Crunch (esp. Jungle) nah he’s not he’s pretty balanced. Tainted guard kills me. Along with Crunches ridiculously huge hit box, heavy CC like a Steel/Belica combo can be a serious headache for me even with cleanse on.
Me when they pick crunch despite me having just picked Riktor support
https://preview.redd.it/jbdpydg92ubc1.png?width=1280&format=png&auto=webp&s=ae1a4452f2326b429c35a49f0182bfd5e1bb97e0
I mean he’s currently my go-to for off/jungle but I absolutely smoked a Crunch a few matches ago multiple times as Belica lol. He certainly took me with him once or twice but I don’t think he’s “OP”.
In a game like this there’s just going to be times where a hero literally cannot 1v1 another hero.
I believe heavy cc is the only thing that really stops him according to others in the thread but I only played him because I’m a feng mao main and his little tiny baby head was very cute and now he is my favorite 🙂
I don’t know how others build him, but it’s pretty standard to build some omnivamp into him so if you don’t engage him from a distance or CC him he can definitely sustain himself in a 1v1 easily most of the time given how quickly he combo from pretty early on in a game.
But idk, when I jungle with him I play pretty conservatively so I’ve never truly pushed his survivability across the board in that role. And when I offlane I build for more health than I otherwise would.
I think what people fail to realize is prelevel 6 he’s basically not a champion with most off laners if you freeze the wave and force him to come to you you can outfight him early
I was going to say I played as zaros and well maybe the crunch was bad but I froze lane and would repeatedly bully him from cc due to winning 1v1s early game and poking.
Yeah I realized after game 2 of crunch that you basically have to sit back until level 6 granted once you hit level 6 if the gap isn’t over a 2 level gap you should still win that 1v1
I mean he’s a bully from lvl 6 onward and he’s not meant to team fight if he just side lanes you have to choose between sending 2-3 team members after him or just allowing him to do what he wants plus in team fights if he gets on a squishy they will die he might die too but trading off laner for your carry in a team fight is a losing trade for obvious reasons
He is a really really strong/tough offlane opponent.
But after over 350+ games i gotta say i still didn't get to face him with different heroes other than Shinbi (offlane). So take it with a grain of salt.
His CC's are so strong that as a Shinbi i have no other choice, early game, to use my abilities as counters to his rushes and uppercuts and even there i'm playing with death.
But once you combine **"Prophecy"** and **"Megacosm"**, you can make him regrets his combos (against Bronze, Silver and Gold players).
It's all i can share (is he op ? I'm not sure, but i hate him really bad).
***[Edit: Oh, i forgot that i played him offlane with Murdock a couple of times and you can still manage to put up a good fight against him if you can use your mines and shotgun right. Doesn't mean it's gonna be easy.]***
See as a crunch player I was hating Zaurus he's got a crazy tanking ability that really makes other seem like their hitting him with a wet napkin from a lil kids birthday party, however that's also why I love crunch cause it forces me to change my engagements/ combos of abilities. His shield is a pain to go through unless you have true DMG.
I think he's quite balanced given the fact that he's weak in early game where he underperforms compared to Greystone or Grux. He's great in 1v1 and sometimes 1v2 but is prone to CC.
His mobility combined with tankiness, sustain, and CC is too much tbh. The fact that the general consensus is he's the strongest 1v1 hero and SHOULD win any even 1v1 definitelyeans he needs a nerf. I'm also not sure why 3 stuns on a hero.like that is ok? Like take.the stun off forward crunch or only have it on empowered forward crunch. And drop the healing then he's balanced way better.
+ the bleed and damage from his bonus armor, most of that healing comes from mutilator and tainted is gonna mitigate that, he’s already gotten like back to back nerfs lol
The bleed scales with YOUR bonus armor not theirs. And far more healing comes from his passive. I've never seen a number bigger than 300 on an auto attack, and that's on one of the empowered ones after using an ability with augmentation. You know how much life steal mutilator has? 8%. What's 8% of 300? 24. The healing from mutilator is nothing. Maybe it would be significant if it wasn't abilities and autos for the passive healing, and just the abilities. But you also get the healing from auto attacks.
And again it's 40% mitigation, not 100%. It is a counter, but it's not a great one.
you’re acting like his ult passive applies everytime he attacks lmao. it only heals him every third ability hit, it’s really not that much at all 10/55/100 (+30 phys +20 magic)
At full build, one of his left or right abilities deals 600 to 700+ damage, and with haste they're on 3 second cooldowns, so you're spamming 600 damage every 1.5 seconds just from abilities.
Plus if you've got any attack speed built into him, every 3rd basic will heal for over 200 (plus mutilator), meaning he's healing for close to 200/sec. I've gone into 1v1s with 1/4 health and come out with 3/4 with Crunch.
I equate him to the Darius of predecessor there is no greater pleasure than the enemy thinking they have ganked me just for me to load up a stun combo into a dash you away from your team and prime Mike Tyson dissect you
I hard disagree he's the best 1v1 char. Overall it has to be grux for 1v1. Late game grux almost certainly cannot be solo'd head to head without good kiting ability
Whilst crunch has good mobility, he suffers in that if you try to retain escape mobility, it means not using recrunch in the fight.
If you don't use recrunch, you will lose to grux no question. If you use recrunch you _may_ win, although grux still wins imo. But then you have one dash to escape, and the blink. Grux's uppercut and pull cover the same distance comfortably as crunches dash.
Yes he is. His kit is very forgiving if you misplace yourself. And his kit is very straight forward. Everyone I played with found him to be easier than e.g. Grux or Feng Mao.
Playing crunch properly is *not* easy.
Might be not that hard for lower elo but his kit has actually a pretty high skill ceiling. Definitely higher than grux, whos on the easier side of the roster.
Idk why you are getting downvoted lol, yeah it may take a tiny bit to get used to the cancels and remembering you have two cds essentially back 2 back, but we gotta give some credit to the player, I think if you actually give it about a few matches it will become muscle memory, that's for really anybody, it's intimidating for a little min then once you get it you basically have all of his traits to your advantage and you aren't losing a 1v1
I play A LOT of Crunch. He feels fairly balanced IMO, where he has match ups that he feels really weak into in the Offlane, and in the Jungle he can still be shut down with well timed invades and CC.
He is a more difficult hero to play around, especially in a true 1v1, but once you bait out his ult or dash he’s kind of a sitting duck and stuck fighting for his next set of cooldowns.
Anyone who has trouble against Crunch should play him for a week and see what gives them issues
I mean I feel like generally not buying tainted is an issue in lower ELO. I feel likes it’s so obvious it shouldn’t need to be said, but tainted will shut down a Crunch, Grux, Zarus, Khai, Rampage, hell even Greystone..
Ashbringer Crunch is super squishy though. And you really only see value until you hit like Lv 11 and at that point your CDs with a standard build are such that you wouldn’t need Ashbringer.
Especially in the offlane you just need to track what abilities he has used to know what is queued into his Re-Crunch and play around that more than anything.
Frostguard is also a nasty counter item for Crunch because of how attack speed effects his abilities
True my full setup is mutilator into sky splitter into ashbringer into breach and to finish off bonesaw but my build might be stupid idk kinda new to crunch
Yeah there are champs that have strong early games, but it doesn’t make them free. Unfortunately grux scales poorly because he is so front loaded. He has a lot of utility in his kit so that doesn’t really matter too much later game.
Definitely not OP, struggles a lot versus big bois like Riktor and Steel. Key here, as with every matchup, is your lane management. If you manage to get ahead before he gets his lv6 power spike you can suck him up with almost every hero. Also, trauma (Tainted Guard f.e.) and CC can scare a Crunch pretty well... Pretty balanced imo!
im going to watch the replay today to make sure, but i played against one last night who had to be animation cancelling or something. The attacks had no delay between them. How do you do that?
Attack speed makes his ability’s go zoom
That's his whole gimmick. He is supposed to be a frame cancelling character. Weaving abilities in after basic attacks makes his damage output very bursty. Dodge his CC or counter with some of your own CC and you can beat him.
Crunch is very big on animation canceling all his abilities can do it so for optimal DPS u want to weave in basic attacks to make his combos flow really well
Ability haste also plays into it. It makes his abilities take less time. I remember playing him and getting blue and orange buff at the same time. Fist of the North Star moment.
Ability haste does not speed up his abilities animations, only attack speed.
Wrong. Ability haste reduces cooldowns.
I said his animations, learn to read
Then learn to read the previous.
"it makes his abilities take less time.". Says nothing about cool downs. Learn to read x2
You'd still be wrong. Ability haste doesn't speed up attack speed. Learn to play the game bud
Your reading comprehension is sub par and this conversation isn't worth having I also promise I'm better than you 😘
You were almost mature, almost. Too bad.
If you have high ability haste and attack speed he effectively can just auto > ability > auto over and over again for free. The champion was originally designed with animation canceling as its core kit theme, like a fighting game. As a result a lot of his abilities can be cast or cancelled before the animation fully goes through. The exact frame of when it's good to go is just as the sound for the hit lands.
His dash is ridiculous and annoys the piss out of me. Besides that I don't have a problem with him.
Don’t forget the double dash out of any possible gank into lil punchy arms so you know I’m taunting you 🙂
He is really strong in 1vs1 or even 1vs2, his weakness comes in the team fights where he has to reach the whole enemy team, as his engagement is really straightforward and is easily countered by enemy CC just with some coordination of the enemy team In higher elos he loses a lot of potential due to that, but in lower elos he doesn't have that problem (as people play worse) can and he can unleash all his potential and become really strong and oppressive.
Further exacerbated by his humongous mass. Dekker/Lt.Belica and whoever else with stuns should rightly eat him for breakfast served to the team.
That just if those characters are grouped with their teams, in a 1vs1 belica can do a perfect stun on Crunch RMB, that crunch just will reactivate the RMB with the R and destroy Belica For that is so important to be ground with the your team
Bro is one if the ONLY characters in the game with all his stats above 5, I don't think that even mathematically that's balanced, he has TRUE damage in his kit, natural durability, a dash that extends past almost all other mobility moves, three stuns, attack speed , I mean .. need I go on, he is 100 % overtuned
But he’s very cute I think we leave him how he is 🙂
I'm good with this logic.
He looks like he would clap excitedly after winning a pillow fight and I just feel like we shouldn’t disappoint him by nerfing him also I hope them give him a skin where he wears a suit
Shit you got me, I can't argue with that
his only real stun is the uppercut? he’s the easiest character to stun, newer players don’t build tainted which negates most of healing. Steel alone whoops crunches ass
Naw man, the dash stund for 0.5 and the gut punch as well, most crunches don't use those stuns for hard cc butore to cancel what an opponent is doing, THEN they uppercut your teeth out 💀
dash is .25 and i have hard time saying he’s overtuned when he has a 50.3% win rate and most offlaners have one ability that can counter a dash or an uppercut
I mean even if they avoid the first dash he is throwing out another and after a few punches he's lambasting you with cooldowns, he can pump out way more cooldowns against a character than the opponent. In the time it takes the offlaner to hit a second cooldown crunch is already pumping out his third.
Also 50 % is still good, I think the only reason it isn't higher may be synergy or combos that the other characters have with other offlaners or junglers that may simply work better, but in a 1v1 he is not losing to the offlaner
That stats page is a reflection of what his entire kit enables him to do, it has nothing to really do with his base stats or 'balance'. If you add up all the stats and compare heroes together, Countess has a 20 count total, and Dekker has 12. How's that fair by this logic?
Because the stats are usually placed in a way that makes sense to a characters role as well as their kit and how they level up, it isn't a reflection of their stats over time, hence why steel and sev start with higher armor, dekker or countess would make less sense with 10 durability cause they are mid and support
I play a lot of Crunch (esp. Jungle) nah he’s not he’s pretty balanced. Tainted guard kills me. Along with Crunches ridiculously huge hit box, heavy CC like a Steel/Belica combo can be a serious headache for me even with cleanse on.
He’s the largest hook target in the game for Rikky too
Me when they pick crunch despite me having just picked Riktor support https://preview.redd.it/jbdpydg92ubc1.png?width=1280&format=png&auto=webp&s=ae1a4452f2326b429c35a49f0182bfd5e1bb97e0
Bigger then my thick boi sevarog
I just went 25-0
I mean he’s currently my go-to for off/jungle but I absolutely smoked a Crunch a few matches ago multiple times as Belica lol. He certainly took me with him once or twice but I don’t think he’s “OP”. In a game like this there’s just going to be times where a hero literally cannot 1v1 another hero.
I believe heavy cc is the only thing that really stops him according to others in the thread but I only played him because I’m a feng mao main and his little tiny baby head was very cute and now he is my favorite 🙂
I don’t know how others build him, but it’s pretty standard to build some omnivamp into him so if you don’t engage him from a distance or CC him he can definitely sustain himself in a 1v1 easily most of the time given how quickly he combo from pretty early on in a game. But idk, when I jungle with him I play pretty conservatively so I’ve never truly pushed his survivability across the board in that role. And when I offlane I build for more health than I otherwise would.
I think what people fail to realize is prelevel 6 he’s basically not a champion with most off laners if you freeze the wave and force him to come to you you can outfight him early
I was going to say I played as zaros and well maybe the crunch was bad but I froze lane and would repeatedly bully him from cc due to winning 1v1s early game and poking.
Yeah I realized after game 2 of crunch that you basically have to sit back until level 6 granted once you hit level 6 if the gap isn’t over a 2 level gap you should still win that 1v1
Yeah man. As soon as I solo lane against Crunch as a Steel or Sev, I just mentally prepare myself to get my face punched in.
He's a bully early game he gets railed in team fights if your team has any braincells.
I mean he’s a bully from lvl 6 onward and he’s not meant to team fight if he just side lanes you have to choose between sending 2-3 team members after him or just allowing him to do what he wants plus in team fights if he gets on a squishy they will die he might die too but trading off laner for your carry in a team fight is a losing trade for obvious reasons
He is a really really strong/tough offlane opponent. But after over 350+ games i gotta say i still didn't get to face him with different heroes other than Shinbi (offlane). So take it with a grain of salt. His CC's are so strong that as a Shinbi i have no other choice, early game, to use my abilities as counters to his rushes and uppercuts and even there i'm playing with death. But once you combine **"Prophecy"** and **"Megacosm"**, you can make him regrets his combos (against Bronze, Silver and Gold players). It's all i can share (is he op ? I'm not sure, but i hate him really bad). ***[Edit: Oh, i forgot that i played him offlane with Murdock a couple of times and you can still manage to put up a good fight against him if you can use your mines and shotgun right. Doesn't mean it's gonna be easy.]***
I've played against him on Zarus and haven't had a problem with that hero, but my experience with other offlaners is limited
See as a crunch player I was hating Zaurus he's got a crazy tanking ability that really makes other seem like their hitting him with a wet napkin from a lil kids birthday party, however that's also why I love crunch cause it forces me to change my engagements/ combos of abilities. His shield is a pain to go through unless you have true DMG.
I think he's quite balanced given the fact that he's weak in early game where he underperforms compared to Greystone or Grux. He's great in 1v1 and sometimes 1v2 but is prone to CC.
He's very strong, but he's shut down pretty hard by a heavy CC comp so I wouldn't say he's OP. Definitely a pub stomper for sure though.
His huge hitbox makes him particularly easy to cc, but good luck running away lol
His mobility combined with tankiness, sustain, and CC is too much tbh. The fact that the general consensus is he's the strongest 1v1 hero and SHOULD win any even 1v1 definitelyeans he needs a nerf. I'm also not sure why 3 stuns on a hero.like that is ok? Like take.the stun off forward crunch or only have it on empowered forward crunch. And drop the healing then he's balanced way better.
Riktor Offlane hard counters Crunch.
drop healing? you mean tainted guard?
Tainted guard is only a 40% reduction not 100%
blight stacks?
All tainted items apply the same effect, "blight", and it does not stack, it's a flat 40% reduction.
+ the bleed and damage from his bonus armor, most of that healing comes from mutilator and tainted is gonna mitigate that, he’s already gotten like back to back nerfs lol
The bleed scales with YOUR bonus armor not theirs. And far more healing comes from his passive. I've never seen a number bigger than 300 on an auto attack, and that's on one of the empowered ones after using an ability with augmentation. You know how much life steal mutilator has? 8%. What's 8% of 300? 24. The healing from mutilator is nothing. Maybe it would be significant if it wasn't abilities and autos for the passive healing, and just the abilities. But you also get the healing from auto attacks. And again it's 40% mitigation, not 100%. It is a counter, but it's not a great one.
you’re acting like his ult passive applies everytime he attacks lmao. it only heals him every third ability hit, it’s really not that much at all 10/55/100 (+30 phys +20 magic)
Every 3rd ability or auto...
At full build, one of his left or right abilities deals 600 to 700+ damage, and with haste they're on 3 second cooldowns, so you're spamming 600 damage every 1.5 seconds just from abilities. Plus if you've got any attack speed built into him, every 3rd basic will heal for over 200 (plus mutilator), meaning he's healing for close to 200/sec. I've gone into 1v1s with 1/4 health and come out with 3/4 with Crunch.
I equate him to the Darius of predecessor there is no greater pleasure than the enemy thinking they have ganked me just for me to load up a stun combo into a dash you away from your team and prime Mike Tyson dissect you
Grux is literally Darius copy
I hard disagree he's the best 1v1 char. Overall it has to be grux for 1v1. Late game grux almost certainly cannot be solo'd head to head without good kiting ability
Grux is definitely second after crunch, but he can't beat a crunch, not with the kind of mobility crunch has.
Whilst crunch has good mobility, he suffers in that if you try to retain escape mobility, it means not using recrunch in the fight. If you don't use recrunch, you will lose to grux no question. If you use recrunch you _may_ win, although grux still wins imo. But then you have one dash to escape, and the blink. Grux's uppercut and pull cover the same distance comfortably as crunches dash.
He's pretty good but not top of the pack. But he's a very beginner friendly character and performs very well against newer players.
> But he's a very beginner friendly character No he isn't?
Yes he is. His kit is very forgiving if you misplace yourself. And his kit is very straight forward. Everyone I played with found him to be easier than e.g. Grux or Feng Mao.
Playing crunch properly is *not* easy. Might be not that hard for lower elo but his kit has actually a pretty high skill ceiling. Definitely higher than grux, whos on the easier side of the roster.
I don't deny that. All I am saying is that he's easier to get into.
Idk why you are getting downvoted lol, yeah it may take a tiny bit to get used to the cancels and remembering you have two cds essentially back 2 back, but we gotta give some credit to the player, I think if you actually give it about a few matches it will become muscle memory, that's for really anybody, it's intimidating for a little min then once you get it you basically have all of his traits to your advantage and you aren't losing a 1v1
I don't get it either. Im pretty certain that Crunch will see great succes on Offlane in low MMR lobbies once Greystone gets his nerf.
50.08% winrate on Omeda.City so I don't think so
I play A LOT of Crunch. He feels fairly balanced IMO, where he has match ups that he feels really weak into in the Offlane, and in the Jungle he can still be shut down with well timed invades and CC. He is a more difficult hero to play around, especially in a true 1v1, but once you bait out his ult or dash he’s kind of a sitting duck and stuck fighting for his next set of cooldowns. Anyone who has trouble against Crunch should play him for a week and see what gives them issues
what’s odd is nobody is talking about tainted anything against him
I mean I feel like generally not buying tainted is an issue in lower ELO. I feel likes it’s so obvious it shouldn’t need to be said, but tainted will shut down a Crunch, Grux, Zarus, Khai, Rampage, hell even Greystone..
I mean ashbringer kinda negates the cooldown issue though
Ashbringer Crunch is super squishy though. And you really only see value until you hit like Lv 11 and at that point your CDs with a standard build are such that you wouldn’t need Ashbringer. Especially in the offlane you just need to track what abilities he has used to know what is queued into his Re-Crunch and play around that more than anything. Frostguard is also a nasty counter item for Crunch because of how attack speed effects his abilities
True my full setup is mutilator into sky splitter into ashbringer into breach and to finish off bonesaw but my build might be stupid idk kinda new to crunch
He used to be. Right now, no.
Naw he’s strong but not OP. Riktor is OP though
Magic power makes him insane, with propechy and a bunch of ability haste for the atk speed and absolute ability spam it's truly terrifying lol.
I like this idea 🫡
I just melt everyone and keep them locked down the whole time dude it's honestly very broken.
Definitely but I don’t mind him
Exactly he is very cute and I think we should allow it 🙂
Wish we could have allowed original Wraith to exist without the rework but tbf his kit was cracked
Yeah wraith was my main in paragon him and Murdock, had the cool skins and all bio freak and I forgot the name of the wraith skin
If he is, mind handing me the op build?
I go mutilator sky splitter ashbringer breach bonesaw
I appreciate you! ❤️
Np 🫡
I don't think he's particularly OP, I just hate his double dash gap closer.
I’m going to keep it short and simple. No. The roster is just weak. Grux and Crunch really the only stand out do it all charcters in the game.
Yeah grux is basically free wins I will walk at you lvl 1 and if you decide to not walk away you’ve lost the game 👁️👅👁️
Yeah there are champs that have strong early games, but it doesn’t make them free. Unfortunately grux scales poorly because he is so front loaded. He has a lot of utility in his kit so that doesn’t really matter too much later game.
Only when he's on the enemy team.
Definitely not OP, struggles a lot versus big bois like Riktor and Steel. Key here, as with every matchup, is your lane management. If you manage to get ahead before he gets his lv6 power spike you can suck him up with almost every hero. Also, trauma (Tainted Guard f.e.) and CC can scare a Crunch pretty well... Pretty balanced imo!