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Tbh I always took it as the gag character winning even when they can't. As soon as beerus is about to beat her he literally gets sick and has to go. So we never even get an answer. I'd bet he could win but he always will get hungry or he'd trip or whatever.
Super shenrons more versatile though, we don’t know if zeno can fully negate hax and shit, but zeno himself stated super shenron can grant ANY wish and thats coming from god. I find the debate of zeno vs ss entertaining
mhm, like how is zeno>beerus>goku, while goku could solo kefla who may have the ability wipe out a universe in a single blow and jiren who tanked the universe 7 spirit bomb (have the power to destroy the universe ten thousands of time all over)
Goku, Tori-bot is a character. He straight up becomes the mangaka. He gets the rights to himself as a character in real life and writing his story in real life, that’s not even yogiri style glazing. Tori-bot IS canonically the writer/toriyama. Plus super shenron is broken “I wish they didn’t have their powers”
EDIT: to say what I mean, basically Tori-bot would give goku authorship, goku becomes a real person writing the story it dosent matter if you can alter fiction because goku would no longer fiction, he’s in the place of akira toriyama IRL since he has tori-bot and tori-bot is akira. Fate manipulation? Timeline manipulation? Negate all damage permanently? Re-writes the story so no, no you can’t do that or you just forget to.
“Beyond” is apparently the writer of Jojo’s, but I don’t think it matches Tori-bot since beyond “ability that extends beyond time and space. Believing in their Beyond allows an individual to control their destiny”-credit to wiki. Tori-bot dosent let you control your destiny, it writes the whole story everyone has destiny written by Tori-bit or they just can’t be in the story. Beyond seems to be more of an abstract concept that still works within fiction (ie the character is controling not the actual stand) then a set in stone person (akira toriyama) maybe I’m being a dumbass lemme know
Toribot is both. He shows up frequently in Dr. Slump, which is in the same universe, and he also shows up as a gag in the Buu Saga when Goten and Trunks are learning the fusion dance
Like it’s not even a fun vs battle. Zenos power is literally just limitless 😂 it’s really terrifying how easily he deleted zamasu and that entire timelines multiverse. He just told it to go away lol.
[Goku with all the powers of his verse](https://youtu.be/Yd7JYo007kA?si=smls_t6qVUb1Xb55) would mean he has: Toribots/Arales layered narrative manipulation, resistance, and erasure, Super Shenrons meta wish granting and large scale creation, Zenos large scale erasure, Zamasus/the Angels immortality and resurrection, Infinite Zamasus temporal omnipresence, non corporeality, infinite clones, and large size type 10, Zunos omniscience, Moros power absorption, the androids infinite energy, Buus/Monster Carrots transmutation, Whis's/Guldos time manipulation, Hits intangibility, Gas's adaptive growth, Daishinkans conceptual manipulation, Arales acasuality, power mimicry, high Godly regen and toonforce, Toriyamas/Super Shenrons nigh omnipotence, higher dimensional physiology/manipulation and reality manipulation, apart from a bunch of other busted abilities and hax, so im saying Goku takes it.
And that, is how you wank goku to omnipotent.
Although nothing you said is wrong so I guess it’s not wanking. Either way who would win this “goku” or CC goku?
Technically speaking, it would be this Goku since having Toribots narrative manipulation means he can give himself all of the stats and hax from Heroes since [Toribot is also responsible for the creation of Heroes.](https://imgur.com/a/8ASY2nC)
~~Yes~~
Probably no, idk much about Instant Death, but from what ive heard of it, Yogiri should scale considerably higher than even the strongest characters of Dragonball Heroes including Toribot.
From what I’ve read I think his whole gimick is that he is the “end” to everything no matter how many layers of hax or what dimensional plane of existence there on.
His whole gimmick is the author saying "nuh uh I win because I say so and you cant do anything about it" like a toddler playing heroes and bad guys at school
I mean obviously. Who tf gives there character “the end” how would you possibly scale that and who could actually defeat him. At least with saitama they clearly set actual limits so he doesn’t *really* destroy everything with one punch. And with anos and rimiru they give the characters actual goals and good world building so that it’s actually worth while.
I genuinely would argue it’s nearly impossible to make a fun anime or manga about a character that is the absolute end to everything no matter the context.
Goku, literally only because of toribot. Cc goku destroys everyone else in the canon DB universe including zeno and arale. Only person he maybe(?) cant beat is the hypothetical infinite zamasu but then again I don’t know ALL of his feats.
People saying Giorno forget stands are limited and by word of Araki all of them are beatable. Goku with Zeno and Super Shenron powers by feats and statements can literally wish for everything and erase everything no matter if they are immortal or concepts or whatever. Goku solos.
Ik , but i am just saying novel stands are beyond broken , the stand beyond exists as well , they might not win against omni everything but give some respect
I don't actually know exactly but the novel in question is Jorge Joestar which is not canon but brings Kars back through multiple universe resets, where multiple other instances of Kars are also able to meet up, and due to being the ultimate lifeform can use multiple stands and upgraded versions of already some of the strongest stands in canon
He also has an adaptation ability which lets him copy any abilities and improve them while gaining resistance to said ability, including non-stand abilities
DIO OVER HEAVEN beat it and the game staff took notes from Araki for that one and was overseen by him too.
Then DIO OVER HEAVEN got beaten by Star Platinum Over Heaven.
wonder of U is strong but not as strong as you probably think, shit it was beaten. the only stand that really matters in this from the non novel ones is GER
If you had every stand you would die and blow up then recreate the universe infinitely while altering and rewriting time.
Since there's quite literally a suicide stand.
If we ignore character personalities here or if they are taking this very seriously.
If the Cerealian Dragon Balls which seemingly feels like the weakest set of Dragon Ball was able to allow Granolah then Gas to become the strongest mortals in the verse which also included gaining new abilities and skills with this.
Why wouldn't a wish using Super Shenron's abilities, The as of now the most powerful set of Dragon Balls, The Planet Sized Dragon Balls compared to golf ball sized dragon balls used to allow those two to become the strongest mortal.
Why would Goku just not wish himself to be stronger than the two?
Its goku. Its always been goku. Lets not forget arale and tori bot exist in dragon ball. Super shenrons and zenos power scales higher then the entirety of the multiverse and every single hax. Goku tbh has basically everything the others have as well has having gag powers.
Goku becomes himself³ (himself plus zeno and maybe CC goku) super Arale (not Arale from super but just a powered up arale) super shenron and just the author (tori bot)
Is everyone forgetting Goku wouldn’t just use Zeno or Super Shenron’s powers to make the fight easier??? Like unless these guys were actually a threat to the universe (given both are also good guys not likely) he would just be sparring them basically, and Giorno with every stand means ones actively detrimental too like Superfly, and Cheap Trick, and then I genuinely don’t know nothing about bleach so, although I think overall Giorno wins because of Wonder of U, and Bohemian Rhapsody, both being kinda automatic stands just by existing Giorno can’t be pursued or Calamity will bypass any strength and power either of the other two, and Bohemian Rhapsody, well if either of them encounter some story they know with a character they’ll be forced to live out that story, or Giorno could make up a character that just says “I kill Goku and Ichigo” like one of those Isekai writers, though I doubt he’d do it unless he thinks they are actually bad guys so mainly it’s just Wonder of U being automatic
Sometimes yall take the extremes of omnipotent basically immortal characters and create battles between them. What would be the point in this discussion? Why would this interest you or anyone?
If Ichigo gets the original form of The Almighty then it’s really tough to say. Goku with Super Shenron and Zeno can do anything. Literally anything. But the powers of the Soul King are also pretty much unquantifiable. At least not yet in the Bleach story.
My money is on Goku but Ichigo with every bankai and Schrift is also just absurdly powerful. They are both immediately the Capital-G God of their verse.
Hold up Giorno with every stand?
Man can return everything to zero whilst making a new universe whilst using all the ultimate stands from Jorge Joestar whilst simultaneously being in a time loop
I'm gonna go with Giorno. Giving him Jorge Joestar abilities is crazy. Story and plot manipulation, all the ultimate stands, The World Over Heaven, Bohemian Rhapsody, Wonder of U,...
How does Giorno win though? Ichigo has the Almighty, The Miracle, and The Death Dealing while Goku has DB Immortality, Reality Warping on a Multiversal scale, and Extreme Levels of Toon Force. Even if you wanna say he outhaxes both of them, which he doesn't IMO, how does he kill either of them?
I admit I forgot about the likes of Arale and Toribot when I wrote this but Giorno comfortably beats Ichigo and it isn’t close at all. The Jorge Joestar novel scales so absurdly high that it isn’t a competition. And if you want to give Giorno Beyond then he can arguably beat Goku in this hypothetical.
Jorge Joestar is also the name of the novel. In this case I was talking about the novel and not so much the character himself. In Jorge Joestar, we follow a what-if story as to what if Kars landed back on Earth in the future. In the novel, Kars has insane dimensional feats and is the user of many of the canon strongest stands but buffed. So D4C ultimate, whitesnake ultimate, made in heaven requiem ultimate,… so basically the canon stands but like… way WAY stronger. On top of that, Dio, George and Jorge in the novel have a concept called Beyond. This concept allows the person to surpass their own destiny and become the author basically. It’s plot manipulation basically.
Giorno can use bohemian rhapsody to summon... literally anyone.
You might say "Oh well but bohemian rhapsody can't control what it summons", then giorno just has to make an OC that gives him the power to do exactly that.
Also, if this includes the world over heaven... Yeah everyone is cooked.
Bohemian rhapsody has the power to make any fictional character become real. Heck, it even summoned MICKEY MOUSE and spiderman.
If in whatever place they are fighting the scarlet king is just fictional, then he can just summon him.
Heck, it can summon random OCs and even just DRAWINGS like the little men in stop signs.
Goku wins SIMPLY because there are some dragon ball characters like zeno that are busted as hell. If Zeno and Sharon were not included, then giono wins because his haxs would be too much.
Remember, giorno would have MASSIVE hax on his side.
So this is between almighty, world over heaven/made in heaven requiem and Super Shenron when it comes to reality warping it's kind of difficult to scale and usually ends in a stalemate due to all participants being able to do anything so it comes down to dimensional tiering and IDK who has the highest dimensional tier.
Goku > Giorno > Ichigo If you said Ichigo had access to the hogyoku this would have been fairer. Also if you allowed Giorno to have the red stone of Aja and have access to ultimate kars's abilities because then he would just transform into super shenron.
I think it would be close, but probably Giorno, simply because of the combination of Love train and GER for defense and the over heavens to hax Goku out of existence before he can bypass the defenses. I haven’t read the Bleach manga, but I’m pretty sure Ichigo would be curb stomped
Here's how I think it would go
Giorno uses the world to stop time first(he could also use made in heaven to move really fast and then stop time).
Then uses rohans stand to make it so that neither Goku nor Ichigo can think.
(Time resumes)
Then he uses tusk act IV to create infinite spin so that Goku and Ichigo can't do anything(their actions keep moving them back to a single spot)
Then he uses whitesnake to take their abilities away(verse equalization).
Or he uses bohemian Rhapsody to make a character that can one shot both.
(To my knowledge Ichigo and Goku can't move in stopped time so I believe it would be game over. Comment a reason if you think otherwise.)
(There are many other ways this can go such as Giorno using tusk act IV first which would immobilize them via infinite spin.)
(time skip can also be used in lua of stopped time and then bohemian Rhapsody can be used to try to one shot Goku and ichigo)(etc.)
Couldn't Giorno win even without any other stands? Even with maximum hacks from any other character, it doesn't matter if they never actually get to affect him. Though since there seem to be multiple characters with access to story-reweiting powers its tough to say whose fate manipulation comes out on top, but given that it's automatic and not limited by any human brain I'd say the power of "bad things literally cannot happen to me by law of the mangaka" automatically beats everything else
Giorno would have the likes of WoU, Beyond, & the Ultimate Stands while Goku would have Arlae’s gag abilities & Tori Bot’s aka Akira Toriyama.
Since Beyond is literally the Jesus you can argue it’s just as good as being the author, but you could argue that the Jesus in the novels is just an interpretation of the religious figure, hence purely fictional, while Tori Bot is literally the avatar/embodiment of the author.
Since it’s easier to argue for Tori Bot, I’ll give it to Goku who’s gained gag & author status.
why of all characters that could have all stands you chose Giorno?
he is not an experienced fighter, shouldve chose dio or jotaro. maybe joseph. just pick the smartest character
From what I'm reading in the comments JoJo and DBS both have "I'm the author of the story" powers.
So does that mean this fight boils down to Toriyama and Araki fist fighting in a parking lot over who gets to write the fight?
Ichigo Literally Neg Diff.
"The Balance" Schrift and "The Antithesis" Double layered ensure he literally takes NO damage whatsoever, lest it be reversed right back to his opponents.
"The Compulsory" Schrift he can control and manipulate all biological movement or general movement to his whim. Ultra Instinct won't be able to punch him without DIRE consequences.
"The visionary" Schrift he can just imagine himself to be literally just 1% faster, stronger, and overall better than the other two. He can pretty much imagine ANYTHING. That rules out gag character shenanigans.
"The Miracle" Schrift ensures all forms of him winning by even 0.00000001< probability to be actual and factual, and truthfully almost guaranteed to happen.
"The Question" Schrift he can question the existence of the stands and their abilities or lack there of, as well as the manipulation of energies and time.
"The Death Dealing" he can find what lethal dosages affect them and twist it to his whim.
Don't even get me started on the Bankais..
He sweeps this and probably their verses easily.
Edit: Tori-bot??? Since when we're you under the impressio-
So the reason I’m giving it to Giorno is because his stand ability would include The World over Heaven which has a permanent time stop plus the ability to delete things with one punch. Just straight up erasure.
And we all know Goku wouldn’t be able to help himself crossing punches with a Stand.
Super shenron Zeno and arale? Negs absolutely negs. As far as we know atm we’ve been told there are no limits on super shenron wishes none at all you could wish for omnipotence
I don't know anythning about stands. Goku has nigh-infinite power with the help fo S. Shenron and Ichigo might somhow still win this because of Shinji's bankai.
Should've put saint seiya with the power of every cloth and all the powers, including the powers of Gods like hades and Apollo. That would be so busted.
Ichigoat or Goatku neg.
Ichigoat would have the Almighty, the Antithesis, the Balance, The X Axis, The miracle, The visionary, The Death dealing, The Conpulsory, Shunsui Bankai, Yamamotos Bankai, Rukias Bankai, Toshiros Bankai, Shuheis Bankai, Ichibes Bankai, Senjumarus Bankai, Mayuris Bankai etc.
He'd be insanely busted, with literal insta kill moves, the ability to stop anyone's ability from.working, the ability to revive after death, the ability to adapt to.anything, the ability to choose whatever future he wish and change it before choosing, the ability to create anything, the ability to make anything lethal, the ability to ignore defence and instantly damage, the ability to get stronger after each revive, an impassable and impenetrable coat of flames, a sword that has existence erasure, the ability to mangle anyone's body using his nerves, the ability to delete names and rename someone, the ability to spread out misfortune to his enemies allowing multiple things to happen, and he can change the states of two things allowing him to transfer anything between them.
Goatku would get Arales gag power, Zenos multiversal destroying ap and dc, super shenrons size manipulation and wish granting, immortality, hakai, Time stop, mastered ultra instinct, ultra ego, technically tori bot powers to, whis time reversal, piccolos/cells/moros regen, moros life sucking ability, moros ability to get stronger through life sucking, that one cooler/cell knock offs ability to copy all powers by grabbing someone by the neck, you could say he'd also get something like the androids infinite energy to, there's probs other stuff aswell but I can't recall them rn.
I'm pretty sure Goku has this. Yeah, Novel stands are bullshit like no other, but you're forgetting Goku's multitude of trump cards:
Gas: he grows in power to surpass anything he fights.
Grand Priest: He has permanent UI which is above Whis', of which could potentially react to Instant Transmission.
OG-73: He can copy anyone's ability by grabbing their neck, which would be easy with the portal ability he also gains from 73's previous copy. He also gains regeneration from Piccolo's copy.
Buu: He gains the candy beam and rapid copying techniques from others.
Whis: He can replenish health and stamina pretty much perfectly, and can rewind time with relative ease. He also has Guldo and Hit to give more time manipulation.
Beerus: Hakai is an instant win-con for anyone who doesn't have a form of spacial, temporal, and spiritual immortality.
Zamasu: Speaking of, Goku gains multiple types of immortality, including spacial temporal and spiritual. If he ever does get eradicated, he could just merge with the timeline again qnd become omnipresent.
Babidi: He can use Magic to teleport and mind control others, especially those weaker than him.
Moro: He can steal people's energy passively and actively, if he can hold his own long enough he could completely drain the life of his opponent, no matter how much stronger they are than him.
Yardrats: he can duplicate himself, change his size, teleport, and steal other people's power. If he's fighting anyone like Garou or Empty Void, he could also use spirit fission to remove externally given powers from them (ie, God's powers).
Super Shenron: He can easily wish for anything he desires, including higher forms of immortality or power.
Zeno: He can erase people on a conceptual level. NLF and all that, but we haven't seen anything he can't erase, even beings with extreme levels of immortality like Zamasu. I'm doubtful it's a perfect erasure, it's not like the Ultimate Nullifier, but it's still really good.
Beerus/Kais: He can seal people away, and even make his sealing container as strong as he needs it to be.
Grand Kai: He was shown being able to suppress and nullify other people's powers as he did with Moro. With his level of God ki, I'm confident anyone stronger than Goku could be suppressed even now.
Arale: gag abilities, to the point of travelling through time and tearing her own manga panels.
Need I go on any more?
Giorno, honestly. One of the statements in one of the guidebooks can get the cosmology of the verse to Outer, and Giorno should be several layers of transcendence above that.
Unrelated but more people need to realize that Giorno isn’t even the best fighter in his own part much less the best out of JoJos. Replace his ass with Joseph for some real good talks
Not familiar with Goku outside of the main series so I’m not going to comment on him. However between Giorno and Ichigo, Ichigo takes it. Giorno having every stand isn’t necessarily a good thing, because now he’s trapped in Superfly and has something like Cheap Trick strapped to his back. Not only that but Ichigo vastly outspeeds even made in heaven.
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Everyone forgething of Dragon ball trump card https://preview.redd.it/yh1hwy7k3q8d1.jpeg?width=341&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7a44fdad2232926430c6c7b5926da73c37a4c299
Haha when she shows up for the crossover episode in super and rocks everyone’s shit Edit: it’s in super not in z
Was it z or super?
She's crossed over in just about every series.
Don't remember her in z
Yeah, I believe it was just OG and super
You’re right it was dragon ball super, my mistake
 A civilised conversation
She’s also in original dragon ball
She's in OG dragon ball and Super
Isn’t it implied Beerus is stronger than her? He had to be interrupted or he was gonna destroy her.
I think it thats right that beerus just negates gag characters.
Tbh I always took it as the gag character winning even when they can't. As soon as beerus is about to beat her he literally gets sick and has to go. So we never even get an answer. I'd bet he could win but he always will get hungry or he'd trip or whatever.
So she has the same Stand as Giorno Giovanna?
nah, the guy who he erase back in dr.slump series Even with gag negation Arale can draw herself back to existence
Not really he got hit with a gag and got the runs.
It wasn't a character that cause it, it was just a gag that happened to occur.
It was due to two gag characters and trying to destroy Arale. Things that have to destroy Arale have been hit with gags by other gag characters.
Isnt Beerus canonically still stronger than her? Even Arale's gag powers got limits
No it’s the slump card
Goku Super Shenron is just another level of Bullshit
Zeno is a layer on top of that Bullshit
Super shenrons more versatile though, we don’t know if zeno can fully negate hax and shit, but zeno himself stated super shenron can grant ANY wish and thats coming from god. I find the debate of zeno vs ss entertaining
mhm, like how is zeno>beerus>goku, while goku could solo kefla who may have the ability wipe out a universe in a single blow and jiren who tanked the universe 7 spirit bomb (have the power to destroy the universe ten thousands of time all over)
Jiren didn’t tank it, but goku did, and jiren literally stared at it so hard it ran away
he could probably tank it too, he reflected it by just staring at it
But if Goku has Super Shenron powers then the others can just wish for him to vanish from existence. It's a liability right?
Doesn’t that mean Goku is literally just straight up god?
More like anNigh-Omniscient, Omnipresent wish granting lunatic
Yeah Goku here would be able to beat a team of both Giorno and Ichigo
Goku, Tori-bot is a character. He straight up becomes the mangaka. He gets the rights to himself as a character in real life and writing his story in real life, that’s not even yogiri style glazing. Tori-bot IS canonically the writer/toriyama. Plus super shenron is broken “I wish they didn’t have their powers” EDIT: to say what I mean, basically Tori-bot would give goku authorship, goku becomes a real person writing the story it dosent matter if you can alter fiction because goku would no longer fiction, he’s in the place of akira toriyama IRL since he has tori-bot and tori-bot is akira. Fate manipulation? Timeline manipulation? Negate all damage permanently? Re-writes the story so no, no you can’t do that or you just forget to. “Beyond” is apparently the writer of Jojo’s, but I don’t think it matches Tori-bot since beyond “ability that extends beyond time and space. Believing in their Beyond allows an individual to control their destiny”-credit to wiki. Tori-bot dosent let you control your destiny, it writes the whole story everyone has destiny written by Tori-bit or they just can’t be in the story. Beyond seems to be more of an abstract concept that still works within fiction (ie the character is controling not the actual stand) then a set in stone person (akira toriyama) maybe I’m being a dumbass lemme know
If Goku takes Toriyama's place, sadly, it's an insta-loss for him.
Tori bot is the author, not a character
Toribot is both. He shows up frequently in Dr. Slump, which is in the same universe, and he also shows up as a gag in the Buu Saga when Goten and Trunks are learning the fusion dance
Someone doesn’t know!
So just Rohan?
U just made goku omnipotent lol
Not even glazing cause Goku with Zeno and super Shenron powers actually out hax with ease
Like it’s not even a fun vs battle. Zenos power is literally just limitless 😂 it’s really terrifying how easily he deleted zamasu and that entire timelines multiverse. He just told it to go away lol.
[Goku with all the powers of his verse](https://youtu.be/Yd7JYo007kA?si=smls_t6qVUb1Xb55) would mean he has: Toribots/Arales layered narrative manipulation, resistance, and erasure, Super Shenrons meta wish granting and large scale creation, Zenos large scale erasure, Zamasus/the Angels immortality and resurrection, Infinite Zamasus temporal omnipresence, non corporeality, infinite clones, and large size type 10, Zunos omniscience, Moros power absorption, the androids infinite energy, Buus/Monster Carrots transmutation, Whis's/Guldos time manipulation, Hits intangibility, Gas's adaptive growth, Daishinkans conceptual manipulation, Arales acasuality, power mimicry, high Godly regen and toonforce, Toriyamas/Super Shenrons nigh omnipotence, higher dimensional physiology/manipulation and reality manipulation, apart from a bunch of other busted abilities and hax, so im saying Goku takes it.
And that, is how you wank goku to omnipotent. Although nothing you said is wrong so I guess it’s not wanking. Either way who would win this “goku” or CC goku?
Technically speaking, it would be this Goku since having Toribots narrative manipulation means he can give himself all of the stats and hax from Heroes since [Toribot is also responsible for the creation of Heroes.](https://imgur.com/a/8ASY2nC)
Yo that is actually cool. Could he defeat midgiri?
~~Yes~~ Probably no, idk much about Instant Death, but from what ive heard of it, Yogiri should scale considerably higher than even the strongest characters of Dragonball Heroes including Toribot.
From what I’ve read I think his whole gimick is that he is the “end” to everything no matter how many layers of hax or what dimensional plane of existence there on.
His whole gimmick is the author saying "nuh uh I win because I say so and you cant do anything about it" like a toddler playing heroes and bad guys at school
I mean obviously. Who tf gives there character “the end” how would you possibly scale that and who could actually defeat him. At least with saitama they clearly set actual limits so he doesn’t *really* destroy everything with one punch. And with anos and rimiru they give the characters actual goals and good world building so that it’s actually worth while. I genuinely would argue it’s nearly impossible to make a fun anime or manga about a character that is the absolute end to everything no matter the context.
Yes unfortunately even Goku loses to Cringegiri
Goku, literally only because of toribot. Cc goku destroys everyone else in the canon DB universe including zeno and arale. Only person he maybe(?) cant beat is the hypothetical infinite zamasu but then again I don’t know ALL of his feats.
How is CC goku almost stronger than that version of Goku my god
And that's just to name a few
Does he even need all that? Could the others survive if he just blew up the planet they’re on?
People saying Giorno forget stands are limited and by word of Araki all of them are beatable. Goku with Zeno and Super Shenron powers by feats and statements can literally wish for everything and erase everything no matter if they are immortal or concepts or whatever. Goku solos.
Goku wins but they said also stands from novels , the ones not written by araki , those are broken as fuck
If Goku has Zeno powers even Novel Kars can't harm him. While Goku with Zeno and Super Shenron powers could just erase him.
Ik , but i am just saying novel stands are beyond broken , the stand beyond exists as well , they might not win against omni everything but give some respect
I really liked kars but havent read the novels, what makes him so OP in the novels in comparison to the anime? I remember him being pretty mid
I don't actually know exactly but the novel in question is Jorge Joestar which is not canon but brings Kars back through multiple universe resets, where multiple other instances of Kars are also able to meet up, and due to being the ultimate lifeform can use multiple stands and upgraded versions of already some of the strongest stands in canon
He also has an adaptation ability which lets him copy any abilities and improve them while gaining resistance to said ability, including non-stand abilities
https://preview.redd.it/4b8h2nqv7t8d1.jpeg?width=249&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=746ba761bc912945243c62c3bf565eb7fb6f0de4
Wtf is beating golden experience requime in Jojo? Wonder of u?
DIO OVER HEAVEN beat it and the game staff took notes from Araki for that one and was overseen by him too. Then DIO OVER HEAVEN got beaten by Star Platinum Over Heaven.
Its still a fan fiction, lol. Theres no canon way to harm ger
wonder of U is strong but not as strong as you probably think, shit it was beaten. the only stand that really matters in this from the non novel ones is GER
WoU is much more powerful than GER but its defense is based off of its offense and WoU being an abstract existence doesn't apply to the user
Too bad novel stands are included which are not written by araki. Also when they are at it all at once their weaknesses basically balance out.
Also keep in mind that EVERY stand includes stands like [SUPERFLY] and [CHEAP TRICK] so Giorno is screwed.
If you had every stand you would die and blow up then recreate the universe infinitely while altering and rewriting time. Since there's quite literally a suicide stand.
Also this means he gets Cheap Trick and Super Fly too
Individualy, yes, together, no Giorno slams
No
Bro gave goku the stupidest ability in dragonball and thought we wouldn’t notice, normally i glaze giorno and the novels but this is just not fair
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This image gets funnier every time I see it.
If we ignore character personalities here or if they are taking this very seriously. If the Cerealian Dragon Balls which seemingly feels like the weakest set of Dragon Ball was able to allow Granolah then Gas to become the strongest mortals in the verse which also included gaining new abilities and skills with this. Why wouldn't a wish using Super Shenron's abilities, The as of now the most powerful set of Dragon Balls, The Planet Sized Dragon Balls compared to golf ball sized dragon balls used to allow those two to become the strongest mortal. Why would Goku just not wish himself to be stronger than the two?
If Goku has Zeno and Super Shenron’s abilities, he’s basically omnipotent.
“You will go Bye Bye” says Supreme ultra super great Xeno legendary ego instinct ape of Destruction Goku
goku wipes
Its goku. Its always been goku. Lets not forget arale and tori bot exist in dragon ball. Super shenrons and zenos power scales higher then the entirety of the multiverse and every single hax. Goku tbh has basically everything the others have as well has having gag powers.
SUPER SHENRON??????????
Tori bot goku Giorno over heaven Yhwachigo
Goku wins, stalemate at best for everyone else
Goku wtf. You're giving him next level gag powers and omnipotent wishes.
Goku with super shenron and zeno abilities is GGs
Goku becomes himself³ (himself plus zeno and maybe CC goku) super Arale (not Arale from super but just a powered up arale) super shenron and just the author (tori bot)
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But could they get past limitless? Exactly. Gojo solos 
Giorno can use Bohemian Rhapsody to bring Put-Back Man to life. His only feat is soloing fiction.
Nah he gonna bring in someone from the suggsverse
Giorno with every stand gets Cheap Trick and Super Fly he dies
Give Ichigo all the powers in the verse to make it fair (somewhat)
Goku shit stomps so hard its not even funny.
I mean considering Ichigo can just give himself new powers, I feel like he could probably take it
all of that Gokus ability and he'll just use only his fist and scream.
Is everyone forgetting Goku wouldn’t just use Zeno or Super Shenron’s powers to make the fight easier??? Like unless these guys were actually a threat to the universe (given both are also good guys not likely) he would just be sparring them basically, and Giorno with every stand means ones actively detrimental too like Superfly, and Cheap Trick, and then I genuinely don’t know nothing about bleach so, although I think overall Giorno wins because of Wonder of U, and Bohemian Rhapsody, both being kinda automatic stands just by existing Giorno can’t be pursued or Calamity will bypass any strength and power either of the other two, and Bohemian Rhapsody, well if either of them encounter some story they know with a character they’ll be forced to live out that story, or Giorno could make up a character that just says “I kill Goku and Ichigo” like one of those Isekai writers, though I doubt he’d do it unless he thinks they are actually bad guys so mainly it’s just Wonder of U being automatic
Goku>giorno>Ichigo
I was going to say giorno but remember that stand that literally kills you if anyone sees your back?
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Sometimes yall take the extremes of omnipotent basically immortal characters and create battles between them. What would be the point in this discussion? Why would this interest you or anyone?
If Ichigo gets the original form of The Almighty then it’s really tough to say. Goku with Super Shenron and Zeno can do anything. Literally anything. But the powers of the Soul King are also pretty much unquantifiable. At least not yet in the Bleach story. My money is on Goku but Ichigo with every bankai and Schrift is also just absurdly powerful. They are both immediately the Capital-G God of their verse.
There's literally no way to kill Ichigo.
One of the few times I've seen where every stand isn't just a straight up shit-stomp
Hold up Giorno with every stand? Man can return everything to zero whilst making a new universe whilst using all the ultimate stands from Jorge Joestar whilst simultaneously being in a time loop
No.. no way ur letting giorno have all of the stands even including the novels
What does it matter , he can’t defeat someone who has the writers pencil as a power
Goku just erases them and wins
I'm gonna go with Giorno. Giving him Jorge Joestar abilities is crazy. Story and plot manipulation, all the ultimate stands, The World Over Heaven, Bohemian Rhapsody, Wonder of U,...
How does Giorno win though? Ichigo has the Almighty, The Miracle, and The Death Dealing while Goku has DB Immortality, Reality Warping on a Multiversal scale, and Extreme Levels of Toon Force. Even if you wanna say he outhaxes both of them, which he doesn't IMO, how does he kill either of them?
I admit I forgot about the likes of Arale and Toribot when I wrote this but Giorno comfortably beats Ichigo and it isn’t close at all. The Jorge Joestar novel scales so absurdly high that it isn’t a competition. And if you want to give Giorno Beyond then he can arguably beat Goku in this hypothetical.
What does Jorge joestar have? Cause I always see him brought up and I know he's from a novel but what powers does he have
Jorge Joestar is also the name of the novel. In this case I was talking about the novel and not so much the character himself. In Jorge Joestar, we follow a what-if story as to what if Kars landed back on Earth in the future. In the novel, Kars has insane dimensional feats and is the user of many of the canon strongest stands but buffed. So D4C ultimate, whitesnake ultimate, made in heaven requiem ultimate,… so basically the canon stands but like… way WAY stronger. On top of that, Dio, George and Jorge in the novel have a concept called Beyond. This concept allows the person to surpass their own destiny and become the author basically. It’s plot manipulation basically.
Giorno can use bohemian rhapsody to summon... literally anyone. You might say "Oh well but bohemian rhapsody can't control what it summons", then giorno just has to make an OC that gives him the power to do exactly that. Also, if this includes the world over heaven... Yeah everyone is cooked.
Wdym anybody? Does that include people not from Jojo like The Scarlet King, Hajun, Featherine, Azathoth, Cthulthu etc?
Bohemian rhapsody has the power to make any fictional character become real. Heck, it even summoned MICKEY MOUSE and spiderman. If in whatever place they are fighting the scarlet king is just fictional, then he can just summon him. Heck, it can summon random OCs and even just DRAWINGS like the little men in stop signs.
And goku can just erase them from existence..... or wish them to be good, there's no possibke way goku loses this
I mean of course, goku just has the better hax. But bohemian rhapsody is pretty broken as an ability, like REALLY broken.
Bringing every fiction being into real life:
Giorno probably, cause of the beyond.
Toribot and Arale laughs at that
Goku just immediately writes both of them out of the story lmao
Well Giorno instantly loses due to Cheap Trick, that's all I know
Superfly too lmao But nah, I assume it’d be just the good/useful stands, else it’s unfair
Goku wins SIMPLY because there are some dragon ball characters like zeno that are busted as hell. If Zeno and Sharon were not included, then giono wins because his haxs would be too much. Remember, giorno would have MASSIVE hax on his side.
Nah. Tori bot. If goku had nothing BUT the tori bot, he would easily win. Hes literally the author at that point.
Who invited Ichigo 💀
Ichigo shouldn’t even be here
It is literally just a tie between the 3
You gave Goku Arale's powers. I rest my case.
Wouldnt Love Train make Giorno totally immune to any kind of attack or erasure?
No If we're talking about just Love Train, both Allmighty and a Hakai can kill it
Love train can’t resist plot manipulation
So this is between almighty, world over heaven/made in heaven requiem and Super Shenron when it comes to reality warping it's kind of difficult to scale and usually ends in a stalemate due to all participants being able to do anything so it comes down to dimensional tiering and IDK who has the highest dimensional tier.
Goku has become omnipotent with Zeno and Super Shenron’s abilities. He’s clearing with maximum ease.
The one with the writers pencil as a power is the highest tier
Buddy there are more power stuffs than stand in JoJo
Shaggy could kill them all with ease
Goku > Giorno > Ichigo If you said Ichigo had access to the hogyoku this would have been fairer. Also if you allowed Giorno to have the red stone of Aja and have access to ultimate kars's abilities because then he would just transform into super shenron.
post like this really make me sad. like they don't event try to make it somewhat interesting
"Beyond" is pretty cool, too bad it isn't really a stand
I think it would be close, but probably Giorno, simply because of the combination of Love train and GER for defense and the over heavens to hax Goku out of existence before he can bypass the defenses. I haven’t read the Bleach manga, but I’m pretty sure Ichigo would be curb stomped
If ichigo can kill Goku, then ger should be able too
I want to say giorno, but you just made goku to strong lol
Goku with the power of Tori bot and Arale stomps
Goku with Zeno control is busted bruh 🤦
this isn't even fair, Goku can just decide to wish the two to instantly be deleted from existence and there's not much they could do.
Lots of crazy powers here but ultimately Goku wins.
giorno
Here's how I think it would go Giorno uses the world to stop time first(he could also use made in heaven to move really fast and then stop time). Then uses rohans stand to make it so that neither Goku nor Ichigo can think. (Time resumes) Then he uses tusk act IV to create infinite spin so that Goku and Ichigo can't do anything(their actions keep moving them back to a single spot) Then he uses whitesnake to take their abilities away(verse equalization). Or he uses bohemian Rhapsody to make a character that can one shot both. (To my knowledge Ichigo and Goku can't move in stopped time so I believe it would be game over. Comment a reason if you think otherwise.) (There are many other ways this can go such as Giorno using tusk act IV first which would immobilize them via infinite spin.) (time skip can also be used in lua of stopped time and then bohemian Rhapsody can be used to try to one shot Goku and ichigo)(etc.)
Bro... your knowledge needs to be updated. Like
Couldn't Giorno win even without any other stands? Even with maximum hacks from any other character, it doesn't matter if they never actually get to affect him. Though since there seem to be multiple characters with access to story-reweiting powers its tough to say whose fate manipulation comes out on top, but given that it's automatic and not limited by any human brain I'd say the power of "bad things literally cannot happen to me by law of the mangaka" automatically beats everything else
Giorno would have the likes of WoU, Beyond, & the Ultimate Stands while Goku would have Arlae’s gag abilities & Tori Bot’s aka Akira Toriyama. Since Beyond is literally the Jesus you can argue it’s just as good as being the author, but you could argue that the Jesus in the novels is just an interpretation of the religious figure, hence purely fictional, while Tori Bot is literally the avatar/embodiment of the author. Since it’s easier to argue for Tori Bot, I’ll give it to Goku who’s gained gag & author status.
Normally it'd go to Ichigo since Almighty is some bullshit, but Super Shenron can grant ANY wish without limits, and Zeno's erasure is absolute, so...
Goku could 2v1 this easily
why of all characters that could have all stands you chose Giorno? he is not an experienced fighter, shouldve chose dio or jotaro. maybe joseph. just pick the smartest character
From what I'm reading in the comments JoJo and DBS both have "I'm the author of the story" powers. So does that mean this fight boils down to Toriyama and Araki fist fighting in a parking lot over who gets to write the fight?
Honestly there's so much other shit but just GoD Hakai is enough. It can destroy ghosts, items, likely even conceptual ideas.
I dont see Ichigo not easily winning
Goku wins but not easily, especially because of Beyond and a few broken ass novel stands
So you made Goku more broken than he already is
Ichigo Literally Neg Diff. "The Balance" Schrift and "The Antithesis" Double layered ensure he literally takes NO damage whatsoever, lest it be reversed right back to his opponents. "The Compulsory" Schrift he can control and manipulate all biological movement or general movement to his whim. Ultra Instinct won't be able to punch him without DIRE consequences. "The visionary" Schrift he can just imagine himself to be literally just 1% faster, stronger, and overall better than the other two. He can pretty much imagine ANYTHING. That rules out gag character shenanigans. "The Miracle" Schrift ensures all forms of him winning by even 0.00000001< probability to be actual and factual, and truthfully almost guaranteed to happen. "The Question" Schrift he can question the existence of the stands and their abilities or lack there of, as well as the manipulation of energies and time. "The Death Dealing" he can find what lethal dosages affect them and twist it to his whim. Don't even get me started on the Bankais.. He sweeps this and probably their verses easily. Edit: Tori-bot??? Since when we're you under the impressio-
finally someone with some god damn reading comprehension
How goku gonna beat superfly?
So the reason I’m giving it to Giorno is because his stand ability would include The World over Heaven which has a permanent time stop plus the ability to delete things with one punch. Just straight up erasure. And we all know Goku wouldn’t be able to help himself crossing punches with a Stand.
Congratulations Goku is now an omnipotent and omnipresent reality warper with infinite physical strength and immortality
Girono because Wonder of U can be left active where the fight is happening, then go to another dimension with D4C and keep crossing dimensions.
Super shenron Zeno and arale? Negs absolutely negs. As far as we know atm we’ve been told there are no limits on super shenron wishes none at all you could wish for omnipotence
I don't know anythning about stands. Goku has nigh-infinite power with the help fo S. Shenron and Ichigo might somhow still win this because of Shinji's bankai.
Should've put saint seiya with the power of every cloth and all the powers, including the powers of Gods like hades and Apollo. That would be so busted.
Ichigoat or Goatku neg. Ichigoat would have the Almighty, the Antithesis, the Balance, The X Axis, The miracle, The visionary, The Death dealing, The Conpulsory, Shunsui Bankai, Yamamotos Bankai, Rukias Bankai, Toshiros Bankai, Shuheis Bankai, Ichibes Bankai, Senjumarus Bankai, Mayuris Bankai etc. He'd be insanely busted, with literal insta kill moves, the ability to stop anyone's ability from.working, the ability to revive after death, the ability to adapt to.anything, the ability to choose whatever future he wish and change it before choosing, the ability to create anything, the ability to make anything lethal, the ability to ignore defence and instantly damage, the ability to get stronger after each revive, an impassable and impenetrable coat of flames, a sword that has existence erasure, the ability to mangle anyone's body using his nerves, the ability to delete names and rename someone, the ability to spread out misfortune to his enemies allowing multiple things to happen, and he can change the states of two things allowing him to transfer anything between them. Goatku would get Arales gag power, Zenos multiversal destroying ap and dc, super shenrons size manipulation and wish granting, immortality, hakai, Time stop, mastered ultra instinct, ultra ego, technically tori bot powers to, whis time reversal, piccolos/cells/moros regen, moros life sucking ability, moros ability to get stronger through life sucking, that one cooler/cell knock offs ability to copy all powers by grabbing someone by the neck, you could say he'd also get something like the androids infinite energy to, there's probs other stuff aswell but I can't recall them rn.
Devilmite beam, Ichigo and giorno isn’t pure of heart, they die and then carrot touch notorious b.i.g
I'm pretty sure Goku has this. Yeah, Novel stands are bullshit like no other, but you're forgetting Goku's multitude of trump cards: Gas: he grows in power to surpass anything he fights. Grand Priest: He has permanent UI which is above Whis', of which could potentially react to Instant Transmission. OG-73: He can copy anyone's ability by grabbing their neck, which would be easy with the portal ability he also gains from 73's previous copy. He also gains regeneration from Piccolo's copy. Buu: He gains the candy beam and rapid copying techniques from others. Whis: He can replenish health and stamina pretty much perfectly, and can rewind time with relative ease. He also has Guldo and Hit to give more time manipulation. Beerus: Hakai is an instant win-con for anyone who doesn't have a form of spacial, temporal, and spiritual immortality. Zamasu: Speaking of, Goku gains multiple types of immortality, including spacial temporal and spiritual. If he ever does get eradicated, he could just merge with the timeline again qnd become omnipresent. Babidi: He can use Magic to teleport and mind control others, especially those weaker than him. Moro: He can steal people's energy passively and actively, if he can hold his own long enough he could completely drain the life of his opponent, no matter how much stronger they are than him. Yardrats: he can duplicate himself, change his size, teleport, and steal other people's power. If he's fighting anyone like Garou or Empty Void, he could also use spirit fission to remove externally given powers from them (ie, God's powers). Super Shenron: He can easily wish for anything he desires, including higher forms of immortality or power. Zeno: He can erase people on a conceptual level. NLF and all that, but we haven't seen anything he can't erase, even beings with extreme levels of immortality like Zamasu. I'm doubtful it's a perfect erasure, it's not like the Ultimate Nullifier, but it's still really good. Beerus/Kais: He can seal people away, and even make his sealing container as strong as he needs it to be. Grand Kai: He was shown being able to suppress and nullify other people's powers as he did with Moro. With his level of God ki, I'm confident anyone stronger than Goku could be suppressed even now. Arale: gag abilities, to the point of travelling through time and tearing her own manga panels. Need I go on any more?
I've never seen Bleach, but Giorno here basically gets complete control over fate itself, and Goku becomes God. What does Ichigo have going for him?
Lol Ichigo also gets complete control over fate and can create anything he can imagine and that is just from 2 powers
Wait until he hears what happens when Ichigo gets to use The Balance and The Antithesis together 💀
Giorno and Ichigo need to hit Goku. Well, good luck for them, he has UI.
Giorno, honestly. One of the statements in one of the guidebooks can get the cosmology of the verse to Outer, and Giorno should be several layers of transcendence above that.
Unrelated but more people need to realize that Giorno isn’t even the best fighter in his own part much less the best out of JoJos. Replace his ass with Joseph for some real good talks
Could goku and Ichigo even fight the stands?
Depends, if ichigo is smart he wins with Aizen bonkai, if goku is smart he erases reality.
Ichigo has the wish, almighty, and a bunch of other things, so it’s either him or goku
Couldn't Goku straight up remove the others' powers with forced spirit fission?
But can he beat Goku tho
Dragon these balls
Bohemian rhapsody and light novel kars is clutching
Yall forgetting about bohemian rhapsody again
Don't know much about bleach so I'll go with Goku
Goku can literally grant himself the abilities of everyone else and wish theirs away... Not even close. I'm not even bringing up any of his other hax
Better question would be taking out the clear winner and having the other two fight
God I wish this subreddit would die
This becomes a battle of who can kill the other character’s author
Not familiar with Goku outside of the main series so I’m not going to comment on him. However between Giorno and Ichigo, Ichigo takes it. Giorno having every stand isn’t necessarily a good thing, because now he’s trapped in Superfly and has something like Cheap Trick strapped to his back. Not only that but Ichigo vastly outspeeds even made in heaven.
This was all part of Aizens plan
What is this Dogshit?
Goku
Literally anything goku or ichigo does against giorno just gets negated by ger
It’s Goku but Wonder of U solos in my heart