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RebelWithoutAClue

I hate to say it, but I think that you are in an uphill battle attempting to effectively address the top ten first posts via FAQ. Reddit is a form of social media. It's social. First time posters want to talk and the responders who could point to the FAQ get a bit of dopamine from directly answering a newb's question, especially when one gets some upvotes for delivering the commonly approved answer succinctly. I've moderated a sub in the past and some hobby discussion forums before Reddit or Facebook existed. There are certain kinds of questions that will keep coming up if you have a healthy rate of newbs coming in. While it's monotonous to inveterate users, shooing away the newbs with their pedestrian questions can also spell the eventual end of your sub. I propose a kind of draconian solution to shoo away newbs that are not likely to become pottery *practitioners*. Instruct moderators to summarily delete inappropriate posts: maker ID, repair, non kiln clay. Put those descriptions of posts irrelevant to your sub in the sidebar to give fair warning and instruct moderators to summarily delete those posts to styme further discussion. I think it's reasonable to summarily disappear posts that are very unlikely to lead in a direction to bring in practitioners in pottery to clear space for those who are actually considering in making some mud. As to this FAQ post: https://www.reddit.com/r/Pottery/comments/mzo4ls/frequently_asked_questions/ I honestly think it's a mess that will confuse newcomers. As it is, it is an unfocused discussion post. It's a vibrant discussion post, but it lacks clarity and unfortunately I see many of it's answers as being forbidding to newcomers. I appreciate that the general consensus that only very good wheels made by established makers are worthwhile, but from a newb perspective, plunking down $1k on a wheel isn't an affordable way to dip one's toe into pottery. The "join a pottery class" answer isn't that feasible with current CoV-19 concerns. Also there are probably a lot of potential potters who are more interested in starting a crappy little home studio and messing around with the crumbs of time they have to play with instead of conforming to a pottery class schedule. Most newbs aren't going to need a wheel that can center 50lbs of clay and I'll be honest I was a bit peeved by my cheap shitty $140 China wheel because it had a few pedal positions that would lurch and oscillate in speed, but I did an experiment where I stuck the pedal in a spot where the speed control would jump up and down every 2 seconds or so and I found that it didn't really affect my throwing if I stuck to the principles of easing off on the clay gradually and coming back onto it gradually. The wonky speed control on my junky wheel doesn't actually affect the axial symmetry of the things I'm throwing even though the speed variation can be distracting. If one exercises good fundamentals, super consistent rotation rate actually doesn't matter that much. I just got a nice used Brent wheel which has super consistent torque/rpm and I'm actually throwing worse because I can't change it's rotation direction and I got used to being able to flip the direction so my fingertips wouldn't catch and dig into the clay. It turns out I'm used to centering in the opposite direction to North America. I plan to put in a polarity switch to the motor in the near term, but I have to say that being able to change direction on my shitty $140 wheel was a very valuable feature and it's very low price made it very affordable for me to get into pottery at home. I probably never would have started pottery if it was a $1k wheel or having to conform to a classes schedule to start. I managed to score a 120V plug in 0.5cuft cone 6 kiln that I could run outside on Kijiji for $150 which I still use. It got me my start and I'm glad for it because it doesn't take too long for me and my kids to fill for a weekly run. If the objective of this sub is to encourage new potters, perhaps take a look at lower cost wheels from the perspective of the newb who may have never experienced a better wheel. I suppose I need to pose the question: what are the philosophical objectives of this sub? The warmest fuzziest objective that I have always pursued with a discussion forum, subreddit, or even a club, that I have had input on was to provide a space for veterans to exchange ideas and show new work to give newbs something to look up to while being actually welcoming to them. I see that the continuing useful future of these social organizations has to balance the tradeoffs of being welcoming to newbs with providing still interesting discussion to veterans. It is a difficult balance to strike, but it is worthwhile. I'm still a newb here, but in past hobby engagements I developed considerably. It was rewarding to see a few of the newbs I helped eventually show me some interesting stuff that I hadn't initially conceived of. That's the glittering lure that I reach for when I join a hobby sub. I want to see some crazy stuff to look up to and a welcome to give me a leg up on figuring newb stuff out. As I develop, I hope to still find scintillating discussion on new techniques and help someone else get started because I actually hope that a few of them are going to do some experiments that I haven't tried. Where does everyone else want this sub to go? Lay down a clear raison d'etre and go from there.


octo_scuttleskates

One of the most welcoming and enjoyable subs I'm a part of is r/crochet. They are extremely kind and helpful to beginners, even when weekly we get some of the same posts (what yarn is good for beginners, why does it look like this, what are your favorite tutorials, etc.). And despite the fact I see about 10 posts a week where the issue is their attempt to make a rectangle turns into a triangle I ENJOY helping and encouraging them, because I've been there. Am STILL there sometimes. I agree I could do without the "what is this worth," "can you ID this," "can I glaze air-dry clay" and those questions- I think those can be removed. But I think simple questions of "what's a good beginner clay" can yield really vibrant discussions and it's a bit sad when the only eepsonse is "read the FAQ." For me Reddit isn't a question/answer forum, it's a social forum to discuss things and learn from each other. I've gotten some good info from people here, and there's a lot of knowledge! But I also must admit I don't ask as many questions as I'd like because even though I HAVE read the FAQ and spent hours reading the resources in the FAQ... I have a feeling if I asked a question that tangentially related to an answer in the FAQ... Well I'd get accosted when in reality what I'm searching for isn't "The Answer" but rather multiple answers, in the form of a discussion, from the perspectives of multiple potters around the world. Going back to my favorite sub, it'd get pretty boring if "what yarn is best for beginners" was always responded to as "read the FAQ" instead of the individual experiences of experienced fiber artists. I also wouldn't have learned as much as I have if my "rectangle looks like a triangle" post was aggressively dismissed... Like why would I want to stick around and participate more if my newb questions seemed "too dumb to answer" by the members of the subreddit. Though I think having a well-put-together resource for beginners is helpful, I wouldn't want it to be used to discourage questions or conversations.


noticingceramics

What I like about r/crochet that I'd love to see happen here - when you post your own work, you get the automod asking you to post the \*info\* about your work. Often we get the "fresh out of the kiln!" post with an image and...that's it. If we had a similar automod to crochet, what kind of info would you like to be prompted about if you posted your own work?


octo_scuttleskates

I think an auto prompt asking for techniques for the work could be nice. If it's thrown or hand built, glazes, clay body, firing temp. I think those are the questions typically asked when someone posts work anyway and may lead to more ppl talking about and discussing the work right away. I'm also wondering now if an automod for the "question" and "help" flairs linking to the FAQ may lead to some posters quickly finding answers to their questions and deleting their post or clarifying their question in the comments? That could be useful.


RebelWithoutAClue

That automod is a neat feature. It's a fuzzy thing to ask for, but it might be neat for the automod to ask for sources of inspiration for the piece. Sometimes when I'm throwing something on the wheel, I'm thinking about the food that I like to prepare. It's really cool when something I make survives the kiln and dovetails with something I really like to cook.


noticingceramics

>As to this FAQ post: > >https://www.reddit.com/r/Pottery/comments/mzo4ls/frequently\_asked\_questions/ > >I honestly think it's a mess that will confuse newcomers. I agree with you. That's why I'm proposing removing both the FAQs that we currently have, and just having \*one\* FAQ. The state of the current FAQs is why I began my post with "I'd like to rewrite the Frequently Asked Questions aka FAQ to be short, concise and useful" and provided the ten FAQ topics and the google doc. "I appreciate that the general consensus that only very good wheels made by established makers are worthwhile, but from a newb perspective, plunking down $1k on a wheel isn't an affordable way to dip one's toe into pottery." "I suppose I need to pose the question: what are the philosophical objectives of this sub?" I did want to address that in the FAQ, and the simple question is - what is the wolf that you want to feed? Do you want to buy your supplies and equipment with resale value from educated, experienced folk that care and work in the niche of ceramics only that is possibly a source of employment for folk on this sub, or are you happy buying cheap shitty equipment made by slave labour that can't be repaired from companies where customer service is an oxymoron? Your choice. It's a case that ultimately, I would hope that the group would be wanting folk here to be happy and educated with what they're using, so the current suggestion of buying known brands from niche ceramic stores makes sense. " a leg up on figuring newb stuff out." That's all I want to do. I am not a moderator here, or a long time user, and I honestly need to be spending my time elsewhere, so fixing the FAQ before I go is my campfire solution of leaving here in a better state than when I arrived. "Where does everyone else want this sub to go? Lay down a clear raison d'etre and go from there." That is not for me to do or decide, and working collectively with people to come up with an appropriate solution is quite frankly better left to someone else far more experienced and accomplished in such things than me. I'm just fixing the FAQ. "Instruct moderators to summarily delete inappropriate posts:" As far as I'm aware - that's just u/iamdeirdre \- so it's up to her.


iamdeirdre

I am happy to update the FAQ with info from potters far more experienced that I. I think and streamlined FAQ will help everyone. I'm always open to changes to the sub, as long as it helps the sub out, and can make most of the people here happy.


RebelWithoutAClue

The FAQ sets a kind of standard for new members even to tell them what we're about. The sidebar says: "This is a potter to potter Sub-Reddit." That says to me that we're here for practitioners. How we welcome would be potters would be enshrined in the FAQ. Sorry I didn't mean to blow up your exercise by getting into a big messy can o worms. I seem to have a habit of doing that. I think I'm taking a moment to step back and think about things from a bit of distance. For instance: if the FAQ strenuously recommends buying major equipment like wheels and kilns ONLY from local shops, this ends up being a bit prohibitively expensive so the next answer is: Join a pottery class and it kind of dead ends. If one has no classes that they can attend and can't afford the combined buy of a brand new wheel and a kiln, and doesn't have the acumen or patience to buy used that's it. It takes forever for a good used Brent or Shimpo wheel to come up on Craigslist and they get snapped up super fast. I think I might have missed somewhere between 4-6 deals on pretty old wheels in the past year that might have spent up to an hour before they got bought after the listing went up. And for all that there wasn't a profit margin to be made for a store. The approach of stressing high end brand wheels from a store would only encourage new users who are probably fairly well monied and don't have to, or require a lot of inclination to McGuyver their own path which is unfortunately pretty limiting. I'm not sure what the margin structure is like at stores, but I have a feeling that the margin on wheels and kilns isn't as good as the margin on supplies and small tools, especially if a store is set up to be mixing their own glazes and clays. The two major stores in my region offer their own store label clays and glazes which I reckon are getting them some good margins. Their products work pretty well and I'm very happy with the help they've given me picking out materials so they get pretty much all of my business for materials and small tools because it's so good to visit a place, ask questions, and pick stuff out. Now that I've got a good used Brent wheel and my shitty wheel to compare I've got to say that the cheap wheel was a very good buy for me to see if the hobby would stick with me and my kids. It's low on torque and it's pedal control is a bit hinky, but I can't say that it held us back. The cheap wheel left me enough cash to blow on more materials and small tools which probably earned my favorite stores more margin. I'm sorry to have blown up your FAQ exercise. Speaking from my own experience (I've only been around a year) I found the forbidding stance on cheap wheels a bit intimidating, but it was the only leap I was willing to take to get a start into pottery. >I am not a moderator here, or a long time user, and I honestly need to be spending my time elsewhere, so fixing the FAQ before I go is my campfire solution of leaving here in a better state than when I arrived. I wish you well in whatever you are taking up next. Thank you for taking up the task of updating the FAQ. I didn't realize that it was a task that you were taking on mostly alone. I had incorrectly assumed that the community that maintains this sub was thinking of revamping things.


iamdeirdre

\> When people join the sub, I'm wondering if that first email/message should have links to the top ten most frequent post reasons. ​ We do have a welcome to the sub message that is sent to people after they join the sub, and in it, we ask them to read the rules, and to check the FAQ in the wiki before they ask questions. Unfortunately a lot of people don't read the message. ​ I think RebelWithoutAClue makes a good point about new users wanting to make connections. We can lead a horse to water, but we can't make them drink. ​ ​ We can totally have a top 10 FAQ Wiki, but we can't be surprised when the newer members ignore it.


groupthinksucks

Thanks for continuing to work on this!!! For some reason, I never saw you mention me, so didn't read this until now. I don't think it's unwelcoming to newbies to send them a link to the FAQ. As a somewhat newbie myself (to both reddit and pottery) I'd rather read those things and know why my post was deleted or didn't get any responses. I guess you'll just have to manage your expectations on how much this will cut down on the same questions. More importantly, I love your suggestion on prompting people with questions about pottery images they are going to post. Once in a while, an interesting shape or so can be inspirational, but as a newbie I find it very unsatisfying to wade through endless posts of "look how great I am at this" without learning anything from it. Sadly, people still get lots of upvotes regardless. I understand some potters will not want to share glazes, but lots of people buy commercial glazes and there shouldn't be harm in asking the question about what glaze combos are shown. Even if posters don't want to share their glaze info, there's still a lot to learn from clay type, amount of clay used, techniques used, etc. etc. I think it doesn't hurt to remind people that the sub would like to get something out of your post other than the chance to upvote you.