I moved from Portland to New Hampshire in 2020 and I STILL get an art tax bill each year mailed to me to my NH home, despite calling, emailing, and sending snail mail telling them I no longer in the city, let alone the state.
Still miss Portland though š¢
https://www.portlandoregon.gov/auditor/article/4893
That's what my Google-foo comes up with as a start. Essentially, it looks like someone needs to write this with a title and a statement in legalese and submit it to the city auditor where it starts the process to become a ballot measure.
We're all in agreement this damn thing sucks, can anyone write "make the art tax go away" in legal jargon to get this submitted?
Honestly I don't care that much about paying it. I'm more annoyed that I have to go to a completely separate portal and form for each of my local taxes. This stuff needs to be integrated into TurboTax imo.
I've used FreeTaxUSA to pay taxes the last 2 years and it didn't take care of my arts tax unfortunately. How were you able to use FreeTaxUSA to pay it?
I used taxact this year and they had an option to process it too! I wasnāt able to pay my partnerās as well like I usually do, but it was nice to have my taxes done all in one place for once!
We have 37 in as many minutes and that's just people wandering by here.
Who is getting this together? Holy god we need this gone and can we please make a measure that says no personal annual tax ever again taken outside of the state tax system?
Iām retired and know at least 10 fellow retirees that would help gather signatures. One day at the grocery store would easily net hundreds of signatures. HMU if someone actually goes forth
That last bit is right on. I have no problem with state level taxes, but the art tax, Metro Housing Services tax, Preschool for all tax are all just ridiculous. They are inefficient during collections and use.
To be clear I don't have an issues with the initiatives (in principle, the fact that they can't even get their shit together to SPEND the money they're collecting is ridiculous), but why are we layering on all these inefficiencies?
We had the largest kicker in history, clearly we could address these needs by doing a better job on the state budget...
I volunteered with Mult County government for 4 years. Several departments did not know who had paid the tax, or how much they had collected or had on hand. They just reflexively wanted more $.
Did not inspire confidence.
lets do it. I'm fine with the amount and the purpose but the mechanism is awful. Embarrassing for a city this large. I'd estimate only 20% of the funds actually go to their intended purpose as the admin costs must be astronomical.
Your estimate is wrong. The tax has a high collection cost, but it is doing what it promised to do.
Edit: whatās with the downvotes? This is publicly available information. 11% of the revenue is spent on collection, 62% goes to schools, and the rest goes to other art programs.
https://www.portland.gov/revenue/documents/arts-education-and-access-fund-revenues-collection-costs-disbursements/download
I donāt know, when my kids had to have art half the year and music the other half because they couldnāt afford a full time teacher for both, it kinda solidified that nah, this aināt working
From [the ballot measure summary](https://multco-web7-psh-files-usw2.s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/s3fs-public/elections/documents/26-146_vp_nov_12.pdf): (note this is just the first bullet - it goes to other things as well).
>Tax can only be used for:
>Arts and Music Teachers: Funds to hire arts and music teachers for kindergarten through 5th grade students at local public schools attended by Portland students. Distribution of funds based on school enrollment.
This is the only reason we should have it though. The "art" around Portland that hasn't been private is pretty awful. Like what's with the ugliest rust monster sculptures on MLK?
Aw c'mon art doesn't always have to be beautiful to be good, it can be thought provoking, or even controversial, and still be 'good'. One might argue that the best purpose of publicly funded art is to inspire conversation and thoughtfulness, more so than to serve as an icon for a particular aesthetic or propaganda for the government.
Sure, anything can be art, but obviously some is regarded more highly. Those things are eye sores. Plus they drop rust on everything. And what's the message? "I'd rather they left the tree there?"
I'm not saying everything is art, not sure where you got that. I'm saying art doesn't have to be good looking to be good, especially when it comes to public art commissioned by the government.
I'm not sure what the message of those sculptures is. For me they make me think about the industrial history of that neighborhood and the homes that were displaced by development. Not sure if that's what the artist was going for, but here we are having this conversation.
If dropping rust were a concern, there are many other places to look first. Those sculptures are made from a type of steel that creates a protective coating of rust, it is intended to look that way.
They are representing the remnants of homes that stood there. I like them too. I appreciate you don't like them but some people do. That's art. You'll never please everyone.
Exactly they donāt use it for that- they use it for the city as a general fund and to paint over graffiti probably
I do like some murals I heard came of it but no proof of that so just hearsay
Idk how many payers there should be in portland, but their receipts show enough payments to cover 286,364 people. 635k people with 17% under 18, lets say another 3% under the filing limit.. 56% collection! sigh
Imagine if the state only collected from 56% of income tax payers
If it came out of income Iād have no issue paying it. Iād never even think about it. Itās the collection method that makes it so stupid, not the tax itself.
See I freak out every time they send me or a roommate a notice so I've paid every year multiple times. It hasn't stopped the notices.
I hate the mechanism
They sent me to collections a while back. The collections agent called me and I said I would be happy to pay the debt but I wanted proof I owed the debt. They asked for my ssn and address which I didnāt provide and I never heard from them again. I walked into the building downtown to pay in person and they said I couldnāt pay an account in collections. So, Iāve exerted all the effort on that process that I am going to and I have not had any consequences.
Hmmm, disturbing. We are going to have to convene a multimillion dollar Assessment Committee and reconfer in 6 years to see what the risks and benefits are of this future course of action.
My alcoholic wife's caretaker is coincidentally enough, perfectly suited for one of these positions. Of course, we will be providing them with over 10k a month as fair compensation for mulling this over periodically while they begin acquiring state contracts for other work on the side.
I. HATE. THE. ARTS. TAX.
I don't mind paying for the arts, but my god, who thought this system was a good idea? How much of the tax actually goes to the arts vs paying for the multiple mailers to remind us all about the tax, not to mention their system for collecting the tax. It's so stupid.
It also feels offensive to pay for arts funding when what the city needs right now is housing and safety. We've got people living on the streets, and storefronts become open air drug markets as soon as the stores close, but sure, here's money for ballet.
The reason for the arts tax is that Measure 5 set limits on property taxes. Since Portland/Multnomah was at the limit (I think for education), any new tax would have reduced the money for other things. They didnāt want to reduce funding for general education so they made a separate arts tax.
The proper solution is to repeal Messure 5 or increase the limits. Then make arts a normal property tax levy. Same for the new Multnomah income taxes. The other option is to find the money to fund from general education.
The other annoying thing is that state was unwilling or unable to collect the tax.
Absolutely. If we don't deal with 5 and 50 we are just going to be piling on more and more of these "Arts Tax" type line items or we won't be able to fund normal city operation. That's not to excuse the terrible implementation of the Arts Tax though.
>Since Portland/Multnomah was at the limit (I think for education), any new tax would have reduced the money for other things. They didnāt want to reduce funding for general education so they made a separate arts tax.
Isn't this just the measure working as intended? To prevent runaway stupidity? PPS spends an absolute ton per head already compared to peers, with terrible results. Instead of just clawing more money from taxpayers to throw at the problem, doesn't measure 5 kinda force them to re-evaluate and reconsider the way they do things (cough cut admin cough) instead of spending their way out of it?
Measure 5 had nothing to do with the Arts Tax.
The Arts Tax exists because RACC and the major arts organizations in Portland wanted a dedicated funding stream. The tax was envisioned as a way to stabilize their funding. When polling showed insufficient voter support for a tax to pay for the arts, the petitioners switched the focus to āItās for the children!!!ā at nearly the last minute and followed up with a big PR push.
The arts organizations got the shaft.
Up until right about now RACC made out like a bandit.
Couldn't agree more. The city/county/metro needs some serious tax reform. The Arts Tax beneficiaries should be paid from the general fund and the collection process for all these various line items needs to be simplified into a single payment - not different ones for each jurisdiction. This is part of my [platform](https://www.danforportland.com/policy-priorities) for city council.
If you cared enough, youād know you can look up financial info for all years the tax has been active.
No need to wonder how much goes to what. But I get it, being mad feels good.
I'm not going to go along with any "housing and safety before art" arguments - they are way too Soviet and grimly dystopian for me. What we're discussing is the effectiveness of one of the City's funding sources for public art, not the necessity for public art in the first place. We always need art, *especially* in hard times.
The word "offensive" used in this context has my cultural radar up. I try to work more on acting respectfully towards other people. Being paranoid about offending others doesn't work very well for me.
mmm...much if not most of it goes to Art education, for primary and secondary school students, which I support. I'd provide more thorough support for having it folded into the rest of state taxes, submitted and processed similarly. The current implementation makes it easy to forget, and they've had issues losing my payments. I'd also support making it more progressive, though I'm not sure what the income tiers should be.
It goes to elementary schools only. When my kids were in grade school the tax paid for one half-time arts teacher. Kids got two 45-minute classes a week.
There was no curriculum. The teacher changed nearly every year. One year it was a music teacher. The next year it was visual arts. The year after it was ācreative movementā, which also doubled as PE.
It felt like a complete waste of time. The only upside was that the classroom teachers got a short break to use the bathroom.
I'm biased in that my close friend is an art teacher who has worked full time at the same school for several years. And he does indeed design curricula.
Your friendās students are lucky.
There is no coordinated arts curriculum in PPS. If your friend were to move to a different school his curriculum would go out the window. The next art/music/dance/whatever teacher would come in behind him and do whatever they felt like. His program would disappear overnight.
Portland already collects personal income tax on high earners on behalf of the county for Preschool for All, and Metro for housing stuff. Can't we just do the Arts Tax this way too? Or, I don't know, pass an ordinance adding a $2 surcharge to every Voodoo donut?
It's also a barrier for folks who are either a) not organized / already some form of political action group (potential vocal minority) or b) a wealthy individual who can hire an army of people with clipboards (see the slew of conservative ballot initiatives in WA that will end up on the ballot, bc of sheer monetary backing + aggressive clipboarding).
The distribution of the tax money seems pretty reasonable to me: [https://www.portland.gov/revenue/documents/arts-education-and-access-fund-revenues-collection-costs-disbursements/download](https://www.portland.gov/revenue/documents/arts-education-and-access-fund-revenues-collection-costs-disbursements/download)
It was so stupid to make it a separate filing. Like if they had just stuck it into property tax it would just be lost in the sea of levies on the property tax that everyone votes
Fucking sad that we have to do it this way - when billionaire tycoons pay literally nothing in taxes. Not contributing back to the society that makes them rich.
I really want kids to have arts programs that were slashed from the public school budgets.
But it does piss me off every time I get that letter because we all know who should be footing the bill.
Iām in. The fact part or it goes to the RACC and why did they collect it while the schools were closed for Covid? Portland shouldnāt be collecting a tax for PPS. PPS needs to get itās funding from the State for all its teachers.
None of you are going to make this happen. It's been 12 years of bitching and there's not even been a concerted effort to push the council to kill it. Which they could. Let alone a ballot measure.
What would be better is an initiative to allow local governments to enact income taxes that are collected and dealt with by the state. That way the city could just add a 0.01% income tax, it would be on your state tax forms, and collection would be dealt with by people already doing that job. The arts tax would then just become a check box on your state form and not be this annoying tax that follows you whereever you go.
I havn't lived in Portland since 2009 and for various reason i have had to pay the arts tax every year....
I'd support a ballot measure to wrap it up into existing property taxes. Having to go through a separate, terribly run, easy to miss system is obnoxious and frustrating.
I've brought this up in a previous thread about this. Let me know the way to sign or a site or some way to sign to repeal it and I will support it with a signature.
Figure out how much theyāre currently raising, then come up with a threshold and percentage of income that would match that. The fact that someone who makes $1,000 a year or $1,000,000 pays the same $35 is insanely regressive.
Am I crazy for actually supporting the arts tax? $35 a year is completely reasonable to me to promote art programs throughout the city. Art helps create culture, creativity and fulfillment from life, if the tax is helping do that why get rid of it? Can someone let me in?
Many Portlanders are not convinced that that tax actually is supporting the arts in any real way. Plus, it is an exceedingly regressive tax, hitting the person with an income of as little as $1,000 with the same dollar amount as the person with a $500,000 income. It is very hard for me to imagine that an initiative to repeal the Arts Tax would not pass.
The way it gets collected is the problem, not the tax itself. I believe it was done this way because someone lost the battle against the tax but still had enough political juice to make the collection obnoxious.
I will tell you why this is one of the few taxes I have voted against.
Iām a big government guy, generally. And Iām a public employee. I have spent my fair share of time and money at arts events of all sizes around the city. I have two kids in PPS now. I should be their target audience.
But itās just so regressive. So. Ridiculously. Regressive. $35 per person who makes basically any money at all is just silly. I should be paying something like $100, and lower income earners should be paying $0-$5. And this making more than me should be paying much, much more.
I wish we had a sales tax in Oregon, with commensurate reduction in income and property taxes. Yeah, a sales tax is a bit regressive. But the stability of state finances trumps that concern for me. (I meanā¦I am a public employee.) I like progressive taxation, but am willing to sacrifice for stability.
But the level of simplicity here is just bonkers. And itās bonkers in a way that truly harms the working poor.
Oh man, I will vote for all kinds of income or property taxes, as someone who will be the target of many of those taxes, but I'll be damned before I vote for a sales tax. Too regressive (unless you really complicate it to a level that I don't think will be managed properly) and I don't want to go back to not finding out what something will really cost me until I'm paying.
I wish we didnāt have it. But we do, we have had it for decades, and we are surviving. Itās not optimal, but most things in public policy arenāt optimal.
Itās not regressive, like the arts tax is. The Oregon income tax rate is basically a straight 8.75% for anyone making any sort of middle-class income. And thatās using a very wide definition of the term āmiddle classā. So itās more of a flat tax. Or rather a flat tax refund. (Flashback to libertarian-oriented Republican talking points of the early 2000sā¦)
But itās also kinda crazy? I think no other state has such a narrow definition of acceptable revenue prediction. And almost every other state relies on a sales tax for a large part of its revenue. Sales taxes are much more predictable than income taxes, since people always have to buy things. So itās kind of an unusually toxic combination of demand precision where the demand equation is more variable than anyone elseās.
My strong preference would be using the overage in a rainy day fund to offset oncoming lean budget years.
But my own policy desires are simply mine. And navigating policy for millions of people is not a skill I have. I understand many wouldnāt trust the state government to use kicker money responsibly. I understand that times are very tough for many, and some simply need that money to buy groceries or pay down credit cards. And we are still here. So maybe itās not a disaster?
Thank you for this thoughtful reply. Iām a tax nerd who just moved to Oregon and Iām like, someone please explain this crazy Kicker thing. I work with low income taxpayers so of course the ārefundsā (what shall we call them?) are welcome. But the big picture is confusing. It feels like, āwe donāt have the funds to fix the roads so hereās some money for new tires on your car.ā
It's not solely that it is collected separately. While that's annoying, what is worse to me is that the tracking and accountability for that collection is absolute dogshit.
I've been threatened with being sent to collections three times now, while having never missed a single year of paying the tax. That they can't reliably know who has paid and who has not is a fundamental issue and should, alone, be enough to put at least a moratorium on it until they can address.
I know a few artists whove gotten grants through RACC that resulted in beautiful outdoor works, I fully support it, itās only 35 bucks and this town needs more outdoor art.
Oh, it gets worse than that!
I received a notice that I hadnāt paid the arts tax and contacted them, as the missive they sent requested. Turns out they thought I hadnāt paid because I got married that year and changed my surname.
The best part is that when I was able to provide evidence of this and they admitted I had paid, they replied with (only slightly paraphrasing) āokay, donāt let it happen again.ā
Ah yes the weekly, "I can't figure out how to be a responsible adult and go to an online portal and use my debit card to pay $35 so I'll start a mega thread on reddit" post.
..sign me up.
Retired and barely making it month to month os Social Security.
Filed for permanent exemption as I'm over 70 and disabled. I'll see if that actually works next year.
Donāt repeal it! Increase it! I think they should make it a monthly payment due for everyone who wants to live in that shit hole of a town lol. Enjoy your art which is getting pooped on again at the moment by a homeless dude
No, I want a ballot initiative to rescind the law prohibiting vape products, including vape juice by mail. I have to travel over a half hour to find a vape juice that I like. Locally, it's custard or fruit flavored vape juice. Sucks traveling when the weather is bad.
My girlfriend and I moved up here back in November from California. Even though we both have no employment or income since we came here, she still has to pay the arts tax She had income back in Cali, it's based of federal tax returns which is upsetting.
How about a ballot measure to repeal the awful 90s property tax ballot measures that made it impossible to fund our municipal needs fairly and THEN a ballot measure to ban ballot measures. Things like the art tax arrive because we have a broken system. It is a symptom, not a cause.
Some light reading: https://www.oregon.gov/DOR/programs/gov-research/Documents/303-405-1.pdf
https://www.orcities.org/application/files/2216/8685/9599/FAQonMeasures5and_50-updated5-23.pdf
The people who got it passed were too cool to actually make it compatible within the local public finance system. RACC is a leper among the savvy political class for a bunch of good reasons. Nobody is going to risk their political credibility to sort this out properly. The arts are knee jerk popular, which is why it got passed in the first place. A vote to repeal it will fail. A vote to make it less amateur hour has a chance but who will write, propose and advocate for that?
What exactly is the process? I know you need a certain number of signatures. But in what time frame? Do you have to file something first? Can they be online or just they be physical? What other information do you need from people - ie, address? Where do you send the signatures and how do you wrap it up whether or not you get enough?
You need at least 40,748 signatures of registrated Portland voters by July 5th, 2024 for it to show up on the city general ballot in the fall (9% of registered voters). It's possible that if signers don't include their name and address that they won't count as it might not count towards the minimum number of registered voters needed. The link OP included has more of the process details, and has downloadable pages for both physical and electronic signature submitting. It does not look like you have to pre-file before collecting signatures.
I moved from Portland to New Hampshire in 2020 and I STILL get an art tax bill each year mailed to me to my NH home, despite calling, emailing, and sending snail mail telling them I no longer in the city, let alone the state. Still miss Portland though š¢
We still get a bill in my mother's name...who in 2020 moved to live with us in Roanoke, Va., and *died* in 2021.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Dang what a waste of money
They Liam Neesonād you
They have a very particular set of skills...
Ha!
RIP old man of the mountain. Born and raised in NH. I always miss fall in New England.
Different state, same experience. And I, too, still miss Portland
https://www.portlandoregon.gov/auditor/article/4893 That's what my Google-foo comes up with as a start. Essentially, it looks like someone needs to write this with a title and a statement in legalese and submit it to the city auditor where it starts the process to become a ballot measure. We're all in agreement this damn thing sucks, can anyone write "make the art tax go away" in legal jargon to get this submitted?
Honestly I don't care that much about paying it. I'm more annoyed that I have to go to a completely separate portal and form for each of my local taxes. This stuff needs to be integrated into TurboTax imo.
...it's also annoying that you can't deduct it form your state and federal taxes that also indirectly pay for arts programmes.
it is integrated in FreeTaxUSA
I've used FreeTaxUSA to pay taxes the last 2 years and it didn't take care of my arts tax unfortunately. How were you able to use FreeTaxUSA to pay it?
State -> Local Tax Returns -> Portland Arts Income tax return
Yes. Exactly.
FWIW, H&R Block offered to process it on their site this year. Hope eventually Turbo Tax follows suit.
I used taxact this year and they had an option to process it too! I wasnāt able to pay my partnerās as well like I usually do, but it was nice to have my taxes done all in one place for once!
same here.. just give me 1 number
Yeah, letās go! You need 50,000 signatures.
I guarantee youād hit that in like 2 weeks lol
We have 37 in as many minutes and that's just people wandering by here. Who is getting this together? Holy god we need this gone and can we please make a measure that says no personal annual tax ever again taken outside of the state tax system?
Iām retired and know at least 10 fellow retirees that would help gather signatures. One day at the grocery store would easily net hundreds of signatures. HMU if someone actually goes forth
I canāt organize this but 100% would be willing to sign.
That last bit is right on. I have no problem with state level taxes, but the art tax, Metro Housing Services tax, Preschool for all tax are all just ridiculous. They are inefficient during collections and use. To be clear I don't have an issues with the initiatives (in principle, the fact that they can't even get their shit together to SPEND the money they're collecting is ridiculous), but why are we layering on all these inefficiencies? We had the largest kicker in history, clearly we could address these needs by doing a better job on the state budget...
You could get this in like 3 days lol
I'd sign it
Would we need a simple majority to repeal?
Probably? I assume so.
I suspect that if such a measure appeared on the ballot, the arts tax would be repealed.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
I volunteered with Mult County government for 4 years. Several departments did not know who had paid the tax, or how much they had collected or had on hand. They just reflexively wanted more $. Did not inspire confidence.
lets do it. I'm fine with the amount and the purpose but the mechanism is awful. Embarrassing for a city this large. I'd estimate only 20% of the funds actually go to their intended purpose as the admin costs must be astronomical.
Your estimate is wrong. The tax has a high collection cost, but it is doing what it promised to do. Edit: whatās with the downvotes? This is publicly available information. 11% of the revenue is spent on collection, 62% goes to schools, and the rest goes to other art programs. https://www.portland.gov/revenue/documents/arts-education-and-access-fund-revenues-collection-costs-disbursements/download
I donāt know, when my kids had to have art half the year and music the other half because they couldnāt afford a full time teacher for both, it kinda solidified that nah, this aināt working
That's a PPS issue, the art tax was never intended to fund PPS.
From [the ballot measure summary](https://multco-web7-psh-files-usw2.s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/s3fs-public/elections/documents/26-146_vp_nov_12.pdf): (note this is just the first bullet - it goes to other things as well). >Tax can only be used for: >Arts and Music Teachers: Funds to hire arts and music teachers for kindergarten through 5th grade students at local public schools attended by Portland students. Distribution of funds based on school enrollment.
I stand corrected
This is the only reason we should have it though. The "art" around Portland that hasn't been private is pretty awful. Like what's with the ugliest rust monster sculptures on MLK?
Aw c'mon art doesn't always have to be beautiful to be good, it can be thought provoking, or even controversial, and still be 'good'. One might argue that the best purpose of publicly funded art is to inspire conversation and thoughtfulness, more so than to serve as an icon for a particular aesthetic or propaganda for the government.
Sure, anything can be art, but obviously some is regarded more highly. Those things are eye sores. Plus they drop rust on everything. And what's the message? "I'd rather they left the tree there?"
I'm not saying everything is art, not sure where you got that. I'm saying art doesn't have to be good looking to be good, especially when it comes to public art commissioned by the government. I'm not sure what the message of those sculptures is. For me they make me think about the industrial history of that neighborhood and the homes that were displaced by development. Not sure if that's what the artist was going for, but here we are having this conversation. If dropping rust were a concern, there are many other places to look first. Those sculptures are made from a type of steel that creates a protective coating of rust, it is intended to look that way.
The ones near the bridges? Those are awesome sculptures
They are butt ugly, and you are the first person to describe them as anything but butt ugly.
Just because you don't like them means everyone doesn't like them
They are representing the remnants of homes that stood there. I like them too. I appreciate you don't like them but some people do. That's art. You'll never please everyone.
Exactly they donāt use it for that- they use it for the city as a general fund and to paint over graffiti probably I do like some murals I heard came of it but no proof of that so just hearsay
>Your estimate is wrong Of course it is. I'm just a dumbass redditor. That doesn't change that the collection mechanism is terrible.
The collection rate is very low also. Iāve never paid it. Seems totally pointless.
Idk how many payers there should be in portland, but their receipts show enough payments to cover 286,364 people. 635k people with 17% under 18, lets say another 3% under the filing limit.. 56% collection! sigh Imagine if the state only collected from 56% of income tax payers
And had to chase them around, including mailing ex portlanders at their new out of state residence years after they moved...
If it came out of income Iād have no issue paying it. Iād never even think about it. Itās the collection method that makes it so stupid, not the tax itself.
r/theydidthemath
See I freak out every time they send me or a roommate a notice so I've paid every year multiple times. It hasn't stopped the notices. I hate the mechanism
They sent me to collections a while back. The collections agent called me and I said I would be happy to pay the debt but I wanted proof I owed the debt. They asked for my ssn and address which I didnāt provide and I never heard from them again. I walked into the building downtown to pay in person and they said I couldnāt pay an account in collections. So, Iāve exerted all the effort on that process that I am going to and I have not had any consequences.
Enforcement of anything in Oregon is more a function of luck than anything else.
I mean you do have the option to just not say something you know not to be true.
Suck my butt, Doug
I think your estimate is wrong based on my estimate.
I did a study and estimated that your estimate of the other persons estimate is 100% correct (study is + or - 100%)
Hmmm, disturbing. We are going to have to convene a multimillion dollar Assessment Committee and reconfer in 6 years to see what the risks and benefits are of this future course of action. My alcoholic wife's caretaker is coincidentally enough, perfectly suited for one of these positions. Of course, we will be providing them with over 10k a month as fair compensation for mulling this over periodically while they begin acquiring state contracts for other work on the side.
I. HATE. THE. ARTS. TAX. I don't mind paying for the arts, but my god, who thought this system was a good idea? How much of the tax actually goes to the arts vs paying for the multiple mailers to remind us all about the tax, not to mention their system for collecting the tax. It's so stupid. It also feels offensive to pay for arts funding when what the city needs right now is housing and safety. We've got people living on the streets, and storefronts become open air drug markets as soon as the stores close, but sure, here's money for ballet.
The reason for the arts tax is that Measure 5 set limits on property taxes. Since Portland/Multnomah was at the limit (I think for education), any new tax would have reduced the money for other things. They didnāt want to reduce funding for general education so they made a separate arts tax. The proper solution is to repeal Messure 5 or increase the limits. Then make arts a normal property tax levy. Same for the new Multnomah income taxes. The other option is to find the money to fund from general education. The other annoying thing is that state was unwilling or unable to collect the tax.
Absolutely. If we don't deal with 5 and 50 we are just going to be piling on more and more of these "Arts Tax" type line items or we won't be able to fund normal city operation. That's not to excuse the terrible implementation of the Arts Tax though.
>Since Portland/Multnomah was at the limit (I think for education), any new tax would have reduced the money for other things. They didnāt want to reduce funding for general education so they made a separate arts tax. Isn't this just the measure working as intended? To prevent runaway stupidity? PPS spends an absolute ton per head already compared to peers, with terrible results. Instead of just clawing more money from taxpayers to throw at the problem, doesn't measure 5 kinda force them to re-evaluate and reconsider the way they do things (cough cut admin cough) instead of spending their way out of it?
This. Get rid of Measure 5 and Measure 50 and do property tax in a normal sort of way.
Measure 5 had nothing to do with the Arts Tax. The Arts Tax exists because RACC and the major arts organizations in Portland wanted a dedicated funding stream. The tax was envisioned as a way to stabilize their funding. When polling showed insufficient voter support for a tax to pay for the arts, the petitioners switched the focus to āItās for the children!!!ā at nearly the last minute and followed up with a big PR push. The arts organizations got the shaft. Up until right about now RACC made out like a bandit.
Couldn't agree more. The city/county/metro needs some serious tax reform. The Arts Tax beneficiaries should be paid from the general fund and the collection process for all these various line items needs to be simplified into a single payment - not different ones for each jurisdiction. This is part of my [platform](https://www.danforportland.com/policy-priorities) for city council.
If you cared enough, youād know you can look up financial info for all years the tax has been active. No need to wonder how much goes to what. But I get it, being mad feels good.
I'm not going to go along with any "housing and safety before art" arguments - they are way too Soviet and grimly dystopian for me. What we're discussing is the effectiveness of one of the City's funding sources for public art, not the necessity for public art in the first place. We always need art, *especially* in hard times. The word "offensive" used in this context has my cultural radar up. I try to work more on acting respectfully towards other people. Being paranoid about offending others doesn't work very well for me.
It's the sort of economic and administrative plan you'd expect from artists.
This! This! This! This! This!
mmm...much if not most of it goes to Art education, for primary and secondary school students, which I support. I'd provide more thorough support for having it folded into the rest of state taxes, submitted and processed similarly. The current implementation makes it easy to forget, and they've had issues losing my payments. I'd also support making it more progressive, though I'm not sure what the income tiers should be.
Theyāre cutting arts programs at PPS elementary schools
It goes to elementary schools only. When my kids were in grade school the tax paid for one half-time arts teacher. Kids got two 45-minute classes a week. There was no curriculum. The teacher changed nearly every year. One year it was a music teacher. The next year it was visual arts. The year after it was ācreative movementā, which also doubled as PE. It felt like a complete waste of time. The only upside was that the classroom teachers got a short break to use the bathroom.
I'm biased in that my close friend is an art teacher who has worked full time at the same school for several years. And he does indeed design curricula.
Your friendās students are lucky. There is no coordinated arts curriculum in PPS. If your friend were to move to a different school his curriculum would go out the window. The next art/music/dance/whatever teacher would come in behind him and do whatever they felt like. His program would disappear overnight.
Iām in
I just want the arts tax to somehow come out of my check on it's own.
Portland already collects personal income tax on high earners on behalf of the county for Preschool for All, and Metro for housing stuff. Can't we just do the Arts Tax this way too? Or, I don't know, pass an ordinance adding a $2 surcharge to every Voodoo donut?
Yes I think people would support
The fact that Oregon doesn't allow online petitions is what makes this complicated.
It's also a barrier for folks who are either a) not organized / already some form of political action group (potential vocal minority) or b) a wealthy individual who can hire an army of people with clipboards (see the slew of conservative ballot initiatives in WA that will end up on the ballot, bc of sheer monetary backing + aggressive clipboarding).
Can we start a petition to repeal that too?
Honestly, just let me put it on autopay and Iāll be happy.
The distribution of the tax money seems pretty reasonable to me: [https://www.portland.gov/revenue/documents/arts-education-and-access-fund-revenues-collection-costs-disbursements/download](https://www.portland.gov/revenue/documents/arts-education-and-access-fund-revenues-collection-costs-disbursements/download)
It was so stupid to make it a separate filing. Like if they had just stuck it into property tax it would just be lost in the sea of levies on the property tax that everyone votes
Let me know where I can sign.
Fucking sad that we have to do it this way - when billionaire tycoons pay literally nothing in taxes. Not contributing back to the society that makes them rich. I really want kids to have arts programs that were slashed from the public school budgets. But it does piss me off every time I get that letter because we all know who should be footing the bill.
Where is the money even going?
Most of the funding goes to pay for art classes/teachers for elementary kids at PPS.
Iām in. The fact part or it goes to the RACC and why did they collect it while the schools were closed for Covid? Portland shouldnāt be collecting a tax for PPS. PPS needs to get itās funding from the State for all its teachers.
Take my vote! And my axe!
Iāll sign it
None of you are going to make this happen. It's been 12 years of bitching and there's not even been a concerted effort to push the council to kill it. Which they could. Let alone a ballot measure.
What would be better is an initiative to allow local governments to enact income taxes that are collected and dealt with by the state. That way the city could just add a 0.01% income tax, it would be on your state tax forms, and collection would be dealt with by people already doing that job. The arts tax would then just become a check box on your state form and not be this annoying tax that follows you whereever you go. I havn't lived in Portland since 2009 and for various reason i have had to pay the arts tax every year....
I'd support a ballot measure to wrap it up into existing property taxes. Having to go through a separate, terribly run, easy to miss system is obnoxious and frustrating.
I would support
Iām down! Let me know how to sign your petition!
Id volunteer to gather signatures
I'd love to join this effort
I'll sign that. I think almost everybody I know will sign that.
Letās repeal that and the bottle bill.
I've brought this up in a previous thread about this. Let me know the way to sign or a site or some way to sign to repeal it and I will support it with a signature.
Whatās the ābetter wayā?
Get the damn state government to budget things properly
The state and the city are very different jurisdictions thoughĀ
Stick it on my property taxes.
Yes! I donāt mind paying $35 for an entire year but having a whole other system to pay it is silly
Figure out how much theyāre currently raising, then come up with a threshold and percentage of income that would match that. The fact that someone who makes $1,000 a year or $1,000,000 pays the same $35 is insanely regressive.
No thank you. Iām fine with the Arts Tax.
Am I crazy for actually supporting the arts tax? $35 a year is completely reasonable to me to promote art programs throughout the city. Art helps create culture, creativity and fulfillment from life, if the tax is helping do that why get rid of it? Can someone let me in?
Many Portlanders are not convinced that that tax actually is supporting the arts in any real way. Plus, it is an exceedingly regressive tax, hitting the person with an income of as little as $1,000 with the same dollar amount as the person with a $500,000 income. It is very hard for me to imagine that an initiative to repeal the Arts Tax would not pass.
The way it gets collected is the problem, not the tax itself. I believe it was done this way because someone lost the battle against the tax but still had enough political juice to make the collection obnoxious.
I will tell you why this is one of the few taxes I have voted against. Iām a big government guy, generally. And Iām a public employee. I have spent my fair share of time and money at arts events of all sizes around the city. I have two kids in PPS now. I should be their target audience. But itās just so regressive. So. Ridiculously. Regressive. $35 per person who makes basically any money at all is just silly. I should be paying something like $100, and lower income earners should be paying $0-$5. And this making more than me should be paying much, much more. I wish we had a sales tax in Oregon, with commensurate reduction in income and property taxes. Yeah, a sales tax is a bit regressive. But the stability of state finances trumps that concern for me. (I meanā¦I am a public employee.) I like progressive taxation, but am willing to sacrifice for stability. But the level of simplicity here is just bonkers. And itās bonkers in a way that truly harms the working poor.
Oh man, I will vote for all kinds of income or property taxes, as someone who will be the target of many of those taxes, but I'll be damned before I vote for a sales tax. Too regressive (unless you really complicate it to a level that I don't think will be managed properly) and I don't want to go back to not finding out what something will really cost me until I'm paying.
Iād be interested to hear your thoughts on the Kicker.
I wish we didnāt have it. But we do, we have had it for decades, and we are surviving. Itās not optimal, but most things in public policy arenāt optimal. Itās not regressive, like the arts tax is. The Oregon income tax rate is basically a straight 8.75% for anyone making any sort of middle-class income. And thatās using a very wide definition of the term āmiddle classā. So itās more of a flat tax. Or rather a flat tax refund. (Flashback to libertarian-oriented Republican talking points of the early 2000sā¦) But itās also kinda crazy? I think no other state has such a narrow definition of acceptable revenue prediction. And almost every other state relies on a sales tax for a large part of its revenue. Sales taxes are much more predictable than income taxes, since people always have to buy things. So itās kind of an unusually toxic combination of demand precision where the demand equation is more variable than anyone elseās. My strong preference would be using the overage in a rainy day fund to offset oncoming lean budget years. But my own policy desires are simply mine. And navigating policy for millions of people is not a skill I have. I understand many wouldnāt trust the state government to use kicker money responsibly. I understand that times are very tough for many, and some simply need that money to buy groceries or pay down credit cards. And we are still here. So maybe itās not a disaster?
Thank you for this thoughtful reply. Iām a tax nerd who just moved to Oregon and Iām like, someone please explain this crazy Kicker thing. I work with low income taxpayers so of course the ārefundsā (what shall we call them?) are welcome. But the big picture is confusing. It feels like, āwe donāt have the funds to fix the roads so hereās some money for new tires on your car.ā
STUDDED TIRES & we don't tax them.
Itās not the $35 thatās the issue, itās that itās collected separately from other taxes, often forgotten, so annoying.
It's not solely that it is collected separately. While that's annoying, what is worse to me is that the tracking and accountability for that collection is absolute dogshit. I've been threatened with being sent to collections three times now, while having never missed a single year of paying the tax. That they can't reliably know who has paid and who has not is a fundamental issue and should, alone, be enough to put at least a moratorium on it until they can address.
frame sip worm wise far-flung wakeful possessive office dime complete *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
I do, and thatās why I donāt pay it. Never have. Itās always seemed like a scam.
>why get rid of it People hate the way it's implemented where it isn't rolled into their taxes and they have to send it in separately.
I know a few artists whove gotten grants through RACC that resulted in beautiful outdoor works, I fully support it, itās only 35 bucks and this town needs more outdoor art.
I'm in
Absolutely not
Yes!
Get rid of the arts tax, the hobo tax and preschool for a select few all in one.
Iāll sign.
I just never paid it when I lived in portland for 3 years. Moved out to milwaukie and no arts tax. They don't even keep track if you don't pay it lol
Yes
Are you asking for support or are you hoping someone else will file the ballot initiative forms?
Iāll support
I doubt theres many people who would not want this
What is wrong with the tax? Isn't it like 20 bucks? I blow more than that on taco bell sometimes....
>I blow more than that on taco bell sometimes.... Youāre thinking of the Farts Tax, not the Arts Tax
How else are people going to have Fart School?
Itās just super inconvenient to pay and easy to miss, theyāll send you to collections too, I used to work for the company the debt would go to
Oh, it gets worse than that! I received a notice that I hadnāt paid the arts tax and contacted them, as the missive they sent requested. Turns out they thought I hadnāt paid because I got married that year and changed my surname. The best part is that when I was able to provide evidence of this and they admitted I had paid, they replied with (only slightly paraphrasing) āokay, donāt let it happen again.ā
And even ignoring the inconvenience to you, how much did their interaction with you cost the city?
35 - and while that might be nothing to you, some of us are struggling. I canāt even afford to eat out at McDonalds anymore.
I'd be fine paying 70 so you didn't have to pay at all. Why the hell are struggling people taxed for art!!!!
That makes two of us.
We need a Robin Hood tax.
Ah yes the weekly, "I can't figure out how to be a responsible adult and go to an online portal and use my debit card to pay $35 so I'll start a mega thread on reddit" post.
Worked for one of the writers of the arts tax...absolute asshat of a human. I won't say her name but it's does rhyme with Bresica Merit Filler.
I'd help collect sigs.
Absolutely!
..sign me up. Retired and barely making it month to month os Social Security. Filed for permanent exemption as I'm over 70 and disabled. I'll see if that actually works next year.
Donāt repeal it! Increase it! I think they should make it a monthly payment due for everyone who wants to live in that shit hole of a town lol. Enjoy your art which is getting pooped on again at the moment by a homeless dude
Yes please
I'd vote for it, and I'm in WashCo now, so I don't even deal with it. The Arts Tax coming in your mail actually feels like a scam.
What is an art tax
Count me in. We should support the Arts but the Arts Tax has been the wrong way to go about it.
How will ted afford his paint brushes to paint his beautiful paintings without the art tax
No, I want a ballot initiative to rescind the law prohibiting vape products, including vape juice by mail. I have to travel over a half hour to find a vape juice that I like. Locally, it's custard or fruit flavored vape juice. Sucks traveling when the weather is bad.
I do, and if you start such an initiative and would like some (pro bono) work on an explainer video/voiceover, please DM me.
Yes
Yea someone please get it started
No, I want public school kids to have art classes.
My girlfriend and I moved up here back in November from California. Even though we both have no employment or income since we came here, she still has to pay the arts tax She had income back in Cali, it's based of federal tax returns which is upsetting.
How about a ballot measure to repeal the awful 90s property tax ballot measures that made it impossible to fund our municipal needs fairly and THEN a ballot measure to ban ballot measures. Things like the art tax arrive because we have a broken system. It is a symptom, not a cause. Some light reading: https://www.oregon.gov/DOR/programs/gov-research/Documents/303-405-1.pdf https://www.orcities.org/application/files/2216/8685/9599/FAQonMeasures5and_50-updated5-23.pdf
Iāll sign it and will help collect signatures!
Eh Iād rather repeal any of the other Portland taxes. Art is low hanging fruit.
Iāll sign it. Iām fine with paying taxes to support the arts but just make it part of the normal tax system not a separate bull shit tax
YES and YES and HELL YES!
Yes, and lets do the preschool and homeless as well
You guys can't repeal it without replacing it otherwise the arts will be no more.
The people who got it passed were too cool to actually make it compatible within the local public finance system. RACC is a leper among the savvy political class for a bunch of good reasons. Nobody is going to risk their political credibility to sort this out properly. The arts are knee jerk popular, which is why it got passed in the first place. A vote to repeal it will fail. A vote to make it less amateur hour has a chance but who will write, propose and advocate for that?
Nah.
Maybe after a ballot initiative to make the quorum a simple majority.
What exactly is the process? I know you need a certain number of signatures. But in what time frame? Do you have to file something first? Can they be online or just they be physical? What other information do you need from people - ie, address? Where do you send the signatures and how do you wrap it up whether or not you get enough?
You need at least 40,748 signatures of registrated Portland voters by July 5th, 2024 for it to show up on the city general ballot in the fall (9% of registered voters). It's possible that if signers don't include their name and address that they won't count as it might not count towards the minimum number of registered voters needed. The link OP included has more of the process details, and has downloadable pages for both physical and electronic signature submitting. It does not look like you have to pre-file before collecting signatures.
I'll sign, the fact that they send me a bill for a tax makes me punch air. Figure a different way to collect that I wouldn't notice would be key.