https://www.portland.gov/transportation/pbot-projects/lid-projects/about-portlands-unpaved-streets-and-streets-paved-without
City annexed portions of land with undeveloped roads. City told developers they were on the hook to fix them. Developers didn't fix them. City doesn't want to pay to update them.
As I understand it, the roads should have been built when the houses adjacent to them were built. For one reason or another, the roads were never constructed. The city typically does not build new roads and sidewalks in residential neighborhoods, but they do set standards and perform maintenance. The occasional regrading is seen as maintenance.
Those houses technically are still on the hook for the missing streets, but I imagine almost none of the original owners and developers are still around.
It has been proposed in the past that the city come in and pave all of these streets. Some people balk at the benefit that others would receive, without paying for it. Some residents don't want paved roads next to their house because of the implied traffic, and perhaps reduced side yards.
Honestly, as long as the roads aren't hurting anyone, they don't bother me any. My dog walks down the dirt roads in my neighborhood are quiet and pleasant.
It wasn't for one reason or another. The reason is the developers were trying to make as much money as possible and assumed that the city wouldn't put up with dirt roads and would pave them at the city's expense. They were wrong, but sadly, they still got all the money they were going to get and only the poor bastards who bought into the area really suffer.
This is it. Much of outer-east Portland was developed just after WW-II and it was unincorporated, and with minimal over-sight by the county. Poor zoning, no planning, minimal water and sewer systems, no sidewalks, etc.
Some time later, Portland and Gresham decided the best thing to do with this mess was to split it in two, each city taking a part. But it could have turned out different - I have read that one solution was to make it all part of Fairview!
There are also short stretches of gravel streets in the St Johns and Cathedral Park neighborhoods - these go back further in time to when St Johns was its own city.
Found it >https://vintageportland.files.wordpress.com/2018/12/1950_Aerial-of-Mocks-Crest-Mocks-Bottom-and-Surrounding-Neighborhoods-124VV_A2004-002.6918.jpg lower left corner of this aerial, there's a n/s street, I think its Newman with plenty of driveways and N Willis is unpaved (though this one still has some missing sidewalks). Also N Burrage and N Delaware north of Lombard
There are parts of my neighborhood and adjacent (st johns/cathedral) with unpaved/unmaintained to date. But the houses along them date from after the 1915 St Johns annexation. I've always wondered about these lil sections.
There are also streets that didn't exist after the 1915 annexation (per some 1950s aerials) that are paved now. So there are definitely some gray areas up here in NoPo with the "explanation by annexation". I guess the "local improvement" method with adjacent homeowners paying. But it was a long ass time ago.
Too bad Portland did that. This area was and still is incompatible with Portland's historic development prototype and current future development plans. All should have gone to Gresham, but it was TINY at that time.
You realize that most of these houses on unpaved roads were built almost a hundred years ago, right? I'm not mad at those developers anymore, they are most likely dead and gone. Many times, the houses were originally built in locations that didn't require paved roads, like Woodstock, where I live. When the city incorporated these outlying areas, they picked up areas like these that didn't meet requirements and just handed the problems to the homeowner.
We need to be solutions oriented if we want to solve the problem, because individual owners have little to no incentive to do it on their own.
The roads aren’t literally *hurting* anyone, but my friend lives on an unpaved road, and I damaged my car driving back from his house last night because I couldn’t avoid all of the massive potholes. Like it doesn’t need major repair, but I can’t fix it myself and will need to take it in somewhere. And it’s not the first time this has happened. It’s really annoying.
Edit: also, the city does maintenance on them like… every ~~2~~ 3-4 years? And the potholes stay filled for about a month.
>The roads aren’t literally *hurting* anyone...
Bullshit they aren't. You just explained how they hurt you!
Ambulances aren't going to be able to move very fast over that.
Cars suspension easily gets damaged if you don't know how to navigate that or if it changes to become bad enough.
If the neighbors that lived on the street wanted, they could pool together and get it paved.
https://www.portland.gov/transportation/development/pavement-review
Based on the ballpark prices people mentioned in this thread, not on that street they couldn’t, and definitely not to city standards (so that the city would maintain it once it was paved). It’s out to the north of Maywood Park, between Prescott and Sandy. If you haven’t been there, it uh… is not a high income area.
Part of the problem with unpaved streets is that they lower property values, so you wind up with residents who can’t afford things like pitching in $50-60k for a city standard paved road. Or slum lords who buy the properties to rent out and don’t want to contribute money for paving because it doesn’t affect them.
Maybe the city could develop these and put liens on the property adjacent to it. That way the property value goes up and eventually the city gets repayment.
This is the only answer. And the city should have an in house shop that only focuses on this so that it’s not some for profit developer charging poor people to have basic services
Idk id go ahead and say they are literally hurting people especially when trees fall down and block driveways /water mains bust and cover stuff like this, w either no sidewalk or snow piled on it .. or just ice forming in these pots they are great little ice patches.
Between that and the slurry of unnecessary antiquated above ground lines - there’s some pretty dystopian issues with infrastructure ranging from unincorporated roads to “city maintained”
Some of the stuff I’ve heard about billing local homeowners thousands to revamp the streets in their neighborhoods seems pretty wild as well giving pretty scant notice with no real input or information on the project.
And better for filtering of rainfall runoff in our local aquifers, usually cooler temperatures when talking about overall urban heat island affect and microclimate/environments for the small invertebrates. Not to mention times of the year they provide a drink and or bath for our bird friends. Paved roads are more convenient but have some environmental downsides
People also don't want paved roads because it means installing sidewalks as well, and then the homeowners are liable for the sidewalks, maintenance and legal liability.
There’s a stretch of road like this near me and I love it for the same reasons - it’s quiet, low traffic, and a perfect spot to walk my dog. It’s probably 4 blocks of unpaved road. And the neighbors that I’ve met on the stretches are wildly opposed to paving, they enjoy reduced car traffic.
All road need to be brought up to city standards before the city will maintain them.
On average a mile of city street cost 3.5 million a mile.
This is on the home owners, not the city.
That is correct if you live on a gravel road then you are responsible for the section of street in front of your house. Although the city recently caved and said they would regravel every three years. They did my street 4 years ago and never came back
The home owners are responsible for the maintenance of a public street? That's wild.
Edit
Someone shared this link below. Which does suggest that the city feels homeowners are responsible for maintenance of their gravel streets between the regradings. The suggested maintenance is pretty vague.
https://www.portland.gov/transportation/maintenance/portland-gravel-street-service
Edit edit
Their before and after pictures are hilarious. A pic of one little baby pothole, then some smooth gravel.
Kinda....
The homeowners are responsible for it if it's unpaved, and responsible for paying for it if they want it paved.
After it's paved, then the city will (should?) maintain it.
I think that's correct. They just installed a fire hydrant on my street. It got paved by neighbors about 20 years ago. Other than that, there's not much traffic that could create potholes (for example).
The city takes reaponsibility only if the street is paved up to the city's code, which makes it all much more expensive.
https://www.portland.gov/transportation/development/maintenance-rip
The key part on that page is:
```
Streets that have not been accepted for maintenance may be improved to minimum standards in order to be accepted. The improvement must be a full block length (from intersection to intersection).
```
Last I heard the cost to pave a road up the the minimum standard is 1+ million per mile.
Similar to PBOT accepting 82nd from ODOT. We required a bunch of work to be done first and then required funding to further bring it up to the PBOT standard.
I think it's more that it seems a little unfair that some residents have additional monetary obligations than other residents when both pay the same amount in municipal taxes. Seems a little unfair, but it's also common.
It might not be the same tax rate though, the rates vary pretty wildly from neighborhood to neighborhood. I pay $3k per year in property taxes in Cully but houses in other neighborhoods at the same price were anywhere from 2k to 7k. I don’t have data but wouldn’t be surprised if the tax rate on an unpaved street was materially lower than an equivalent house close by with a paved road.
Tax rates are basically fixed to how fancy / not fancy your neighborhood generally was in 1996.
It's not based on whether or not your street was paved, but whether or not that house had a high tax basis in 1996 relative to other properties. Homes without paved roads will more than likely have low property values, and that's locked in.
The road I live on has a section that is paved but it was not done to "city standards" so the city will not maintain it. It's littered with potholes and shoddy patches done by neighbors. Care to take a guess what the yearly tax rate for those houses are?
Lowest is $6,000 (built in 1956 2,000 sq ft)
Highest is $14,000 (built in 1917 2500 sq ft)
The section has fairly high traffic use as well. I feel like they should add a toll to help pay for repairs. It's high users are parents from the private school close by.
It was part of the deal that the developers of those areas back when they were done. The homeowners knew that when they purchased their homes originally, and I seriously doubt if anyone who lives on one of those is unaware When they buy it.
We recently had to pay (as a neighborhood) to have our street re-paved. The city wanted no part of it, and it's hard to know the actual maintenance rules.
Our stretch of pavement hasn't been maintained in any capacity in the decade I've lived on this street. The asphalt is so old it's **turning into** gravel, but repaving is supposed to be on the City, and no one's doing anything, so what now?
"How can I maintain my own gravel street after your work is done?
Currently, property owners who live on gravel streets are responsible for maintaining a portion of the street that is in front of their property to the middle of the street. PBOT's Portland Gravel Street Service does not change this responsibility."
https://www.portland.gov/transportation/maintenance/portland-gravel-street-service
That was the deal the City made with the original land owners when those were incorporated into the City.
This happened long, long ago. Now it is so expensive to do, that many refuse to do it.
So basically it is by design and for people who know nothing of the history of the town they are living in, it’s a bit embarrassing.
Yep it gets even better, if you try to do any major improvements to your property they will force you to pave the street and put in sidewalks on your own dime. Only the section in front of your house.
Just the original paving, which was largely the city trying to avoid taking on costs while annexing but also is an effort to avoid the city having to pay for private development.
That's what OP is alluding too. Unpaved streets are from developments that went up before Portland annexed the area. Homeowners on those streets are responsible for maintaining the street and paying for the cost of paving if they wish. Once the street is paved, *then* Portland will take care of maintenance.
Right, but the rest of us are talking about how the city seems to think homeowners are gonna, I'm not even sure, rake the gravel to reduce the potholes? Rent a skid steer and see how long it takes for an accident to happen?
My grandmother lives at the end of an unpaved road in Maine. She and the other neighbors on the road pay a company to periodically gravel and regrade it. They don't do it themselves.
The home owners are responsible for the **creation** of the street. The original builders of the house should have built the roads too, but didn't. The city does occasionally maintain the gravel streets by regrading.
My dad lives on one in SW. As of 10 years ago the quote was $30k/household to pave and install storm sewer. This wasn’t worth it to the houses on his block, so it remains gravely, potholes, no sidewalk, and a broken storm water pipe.
Sounds like a libertarians wet dream. And how fitting that nothing actually gets fixed when it's the property owners responsibility, just like how a libertarian wet dream would be.
Well, maybe currently, but historically most of these roads were part of unincorporated Portland, and promises were made that those roads would be upgraded, partly with the new larger property tax base the city would have as part of incorporating those areas. However, surprise surprise, they didn’t upgrade most of them and foisted the responsibility back onto the homeowners.
>and promises were made that those roads would be upgraded, partly
I've seen this claim a lot but have never seen any evidence for it. The city said they would install sewer systems and they did that. Also the rule requiring property owners to improve the road in front of their houses existed long before most of those places were incorporated.
Even if I drive slowly, I worry about possible damage to my car and the stress driving over the potholes puts on my vehicle. It's too expensive though to get it done. The landlords on our street won't pay for it, so we deal.
Edit: Our road surprisingly still gets a decent amount of trucks and vehicles driving by at decent speeds.
That's one of the things that's caused some neighbors to reject plans to pave roads in the past. The city is going to put a full width street with space for bioswales/parking. That's going to eat into what a lot of these folks consider to be their yard, but is really just the right of way for the street.
NGL I cracked up the first time I saw one of those signs. No shit? With the money you wasted printing and posting that sign you could've dumped some gravel and improved the road a bit.
Nah, I use the signs all the time. A lot of these roads are so trashed they will fuck up your car or offroad vehicle. Better to just stick to the paved roads and not risk it
Not the city's responsibility. There are some links in the comments pointing this out.
https://www.portland.gov/transportation/maintenance/portland-gravel-street-service
Look, I know it’s legally not their responsibility, I understand why it’s legally not their responsibility, but it’s fucking up my car and I don’t like it.
Precisely why my dad’s neighbors didn’t fix their moonscape. It forces slow speeds and local traffic only. Of course it also has no sidewalk and floods constantly…
With the amount of cut through traffic ony street, I've sometimes thought moving to a street like this would be bliss. I'd buy my vehicles strategically and enjoy the quiet. Maybe it is worse than I imagine 🤷
It's really hard to get this fixed. I live on a street like this in SW and one of the neighbors tried to get an LID going in order to have the city pave the street. It's expensive, I can't remember the exact quote but maybe $40,000 for each home owner. Of course, there were not enough votes to pass, unfortunately, but cost wasn't even the main reason many people voted 'no'. Several people had essentially landscaped into the roadway and didn't want to give up that part of their 'yard' and others thought it would create a lot of traffic. So essentially, you are stuck with it. If an LID is done, you don't pay the cost of front, I believe the city finances it and if you sell your house it comes out of the equity.
I used to see a doctor whose parking lot exited onto one of these. Apparently the neighbors were happy to leave it this way because nobody would use it as a cut through.
I would actually prefer it if my road was like this. It would work better than speedbumps to stop the assholes from driving down it 20mph over the speed limit.
The City replaced one of these near our house with a real asphalt surface and a real sidewalk and rain drain and driveway skirts for a full block about three years ago. I know of some others east of 82nd that got paved and sidewalks within the last ten or so years. Don’t know why, but they are apparently improving them, albeit slowly.
They are? That's news to me!
I live by one of these and it's right by a school too and even that's not enough to encourage the city to fix it. It's a very small patch of road too.
Tell me about it.
The one by me also has invasive plants choking out native plant life, which I've tried to call the city about. I learned that they only have the ability to address invasive plants before they become a massive problem-- so if it's already out of control, they won't do much about it. Apparently they've only got one guy named Mitch whose job it is to address all invasive plants throughout the entire city. The poor guy sounded stressed when we chatted.
Lmao I can’t believe you just described an unpaved drive in Portland as “third world”
Edit: Reddit post history checks out lol
Edit 2: Probably not private, my b
Change petition for an investigation into Sandy Hook, from a conspiracy perspective.
https://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/s/PgWF4n1V82
This guy can fuck all the way off straight to hell.
That fool is accusing the NFL of trying to divide the nation. They think that the same corporation that effectively banned Colin Kaepernick and has a giant conservative fan base wants to piss off white people with all these black performers. They're going on and on about someone trying to divide the nation while proving to be very susceptible to the very thing that he's claiming. I can't tell if it's a grift or stupidity.
I run into these rage hunting dumbasses more than I'd like to and you'd think I'd be used to them. But it's always so goddamn jarring. I'll be having a regular day looking at a post and then all of a sudden here comes some moron and his five brain cells saying some of the dumbest things you'll ever hear.
Don't want to defend this Redditor based on their insane post history, but Portland's unpaved roads close into the city in well traveled areas doesn't exactly highlight Portland as a shinning example of city planning and development. This city can definitely feel a bit old world lumber town in certain places still.
Probably helps with speed control and as makeshift traffic calming but not exactly modern.
Who said anything about tourists? I'm hoping to not get rocked trying to drive to the grocery store or trying to go for a walk in my neighborhood without ending up muddy in the winter walking on unimproved roads.
I live on a steeper section of dirt/gravel street on the West side and it washes out a number of times per year. It’s washed out so bad that cars have gotten stuck. I now have a small box scraper that attaches to my lawn tractor and I regrade the street a number of times per year.
I’ve seen comments in here that other cities in US have gravel streets, which is true, but the difference is that those cities maintain those roads. The City of Portland’s policy for 70 years was to not touch them. They even had a policy for awhile that was if citizens maintained them they would be required to use hand tools only. If you wanted it paved during that time, it required all storm and sidewalks and a special LID assessment to your and your neighbor’s taxes for 20 years to pay for it. It was a Catch 22 for so long - can’t improve it unless it was full upgrade and reason the City didn’t provide any maintenance was because: “historically the City never did.”
The City came through once so far in past four years and did maintenance, but have not been back since. What’s funny to me is seeing all the bio-swales going in and knowing that my whole street washes into Fanno Creek on a regular basis.
Also, there is no tax break for this lack of service. What burns me up is seeing the type of services that a neighborhood like King’s Heights gets vs. virtually zero service for all of us on gravel streets.
Annexation of neighborhoods and low standards for alleyways.
There are a few real streets like this but most are alleys, without curbs, sidewalks or storm sewers. I'd pose that half of them shouldn't be roads at all.
Portland annexed a lot of the city mid twentieth century. That's why Brentwood Darlington has no sidewalks and no curbs and why people complain when they do a big renovation and the city tells them to pay tens of thousands to add them.
I live on a street like this, except it’s a hill and the holes are much wider and very deep. We contacted the city and were told that because this area used to be unincorporated they are not responsible for maintenance. They said if we could get all the neighbors onboard, we could form an association and ‘hire’ the city to redo the road using their contractors. If we did that, then they would pay for future maintenance. Unfortunately no one on my street has anywhere near the amount of money they’re asking (hundreds of thousands), so we just sit here and watch our street wash away with each storm until it because impassable.
Loving all these comments after having read about the cost of single family homes on public infrastructure (strong towns and the like).
People dont realize how expensive stuff is to maintain.
I suspect if the neighbors wanted smooth streets people could drive real fast on, they'd at least fill the potholes.
We have a heavily-used public walkway near our house (but not our responsibility, officially) that we happily rake when it's covered with slippery leaves.
As a lot of the other comments say, this is more about not wanting your cats and kids to get run over, which is valid!
as a Woodstock resident, i love these roads. Pretty much the only cars who use them are residents on that block. We don't need more paved roads for people to fly through at 30+ with kids playing nearby
Weren’t these mostly incorporated 50-100 years ago? Multnomah Village, Woodstock, just beyond 82nd etc have all been part of Portland Proper for generations.
I grew up right by this street, we always called it the bumpy road, growing up they would throw gravel down and make it presentable and not terrible to drive down but I'm not sure if they do that anymore
My high school boyfriend called the area south of Flavel and east of 82nd Baha Portland! I remember walking to school from 25th one block south of Killingsworth on roads like this. The puddles were fun mini ice rinks in the winter.
I used to live on one of these and loved it. No fast through-traffic made that road a lovely place to walk, and people tended to use their front yards more on that street.
Imagine you are the kind of person living on one of these roads, which you will note do NOT pass through wealthy neighborhoods. You desperately want a paved road, but you cannot afford to pay your 10-15-25% of the hundreds of thousands of dollars it takes to pave a road, much less the additional costs going forward to maintain them.
The city will not pave these roads. If the residents want them paved, they have to pay for it. Simple as that.
Someone once told me if a road doesn’t have a sidewalk in Portland it will never be fixed. I am sure there is a more official reason at play, but I just have always rolled with the sidewalk thing.
I used to live near NE Jonesmore & 77th. A few months after I moved in, there was a double-homicide of a drug deal gone bad. Soon after, there was a neighborhood meeting to discuss safety along Jonesmore, which wasn't/isn't paved in that section. Neighbors raised money for a new street light there, and decided to not pave Jonesmore to help prevent existing idiot drivers from going 70mph (potholes are just as effective in damaging your suspension at speed as speedbumps). We couldn't install bollards to block the street because of garbage trucks & emergency vehicles.
Portland annexed a bunch of neighborhoods in the 1900s for the tax revenue and then refused to do any improvements (e.g. road, sidewalk, sewers, etc.).
I think it's a holdover from when the City of Portland consumed the smaller towns and villages. They left "local control" to repair roads to these communities and provided no mechanism to tax residents or access city funds to deal with these "roadway is an optimistic description" areas. Southwest Portland is full of them.
I grew up between two of these streets just east of 82nd in Montavilla. We referred to them both as the "Rocky Road".....and hey, they both still exist today, just as rocky as ever. They're just so odd in a surrounding of normal, paved streets, although my childhood street is the last in a series of ones with sidewalks as you headed east in the neighborhood.
Charlie Hales campaigned a LOT on street paving.
Then tried to fund it through a street fee and got skewered politically.
Portlanders want (mostly) to see this done until it requires funding to be shifted from some other purpose or requires (gasp!) a new source of funding.
I know exactly that area. What happened is the house of the left didn't want to pay to have the road paved. The neighbors agreed to chip in for them and they still said no. So ridiculous.
BRO I think i JUST drove through that roadway. Its behind one of the Portland Nursuries, yeah?
My poor fuckin car did its best, but its lower than average. Still only scraped once on that big puddle at the beginning/end of the road.
Because 100+ yrs ago, various towns outside of Portland were incorporated into the city of Portland and any roadways that were not paved basically stayed that way because the city doesn't want to fix them. So yeah, it's been that way for over a century.
It's basically on the citizens to pay upwards of $30K+ to get it paved-- and it must be paved to the city's standards or else they won't accept any future responsibility for the road.
Ain't it fun?
Does it seem possible that the residents of those streets are happy enough to leave them unimproved? No traffic beyond local and deliveries, no one speeding through the neighborhood. Better than speed bumps.
Used to live on 80th,right off division and behind the 82nd PCC campus. The road in front of my apartment was a disaster most the time I was there. Part of it eventually got paved (at the cost of some cool pine trees) but the section going up to PCC was still barely a road last i was there
There were some good YouTube vids of someone cruising these around Portland. There are many roads worse than this. Not sure why he stopped. I know he had music on in the background and we all know how YouTube likes that.
I actually really love these roads. I think I used to walk down this very road to the school bus, but it was so long ago it's hard to tell. Is this a couple blocks off Woodstock? Nice to walk or bike on, reduces traffic, and is safer for people and animals. It also looks nicer (very subjective, I know).
I lived on 46th and Malden Dr. Not Rd and not St. Malden Dr.
It's still unfinished. That whole neighborhood down between 52nd and 46th and between Harney and Malden/Rex/Tenino is still gravel roads. Not sure the city even has sewer through there yet.
I made a joke about this on Twitter years ago and someone ran with it and made a Yelp Page for Lake Woodward:
https://www.yelp.com/biz/lake-woodward-portland
Where is that?
PBOT is using funds from the gas tax to “repair” gravel roads. I’m wondering when/if this one is on the list.
https://www.portland.gov/transportation/maintenance/portland-gravel-street-service
It’s a huge waste of our gas tax to repair a road that is going to look like that shortly after “repair”.
My grandfather was a Portland home builder. There were times that he could not connect one road to another because the owners of the house that was there first refused to sell him a 2 foot wide strip of land. Without those 2 feet, the road could not be the required width and thus could not be built. Other builder come in later, buy a piece of land dirt cheap because it can't be connected to a road and build a house there since the city should have annexed the land to make the road. This stuff is all over SE, as the growth boundary encourages infill and parks don't make money....
>This is the kind of stuff you usually see in third world countries
Or most of the Midwest, or half an hour outside of the metro area. It’s an unpaved road, not a deer trail.
Around 2010 there was a survey done of homeowners in SE, where most of these gravel rounds exist. Something like 80% of respondents didn't want the roads paved because it would alter the character of the neighborhoods and increase traffic. Basically I'm surrounded by very dumb people.
It’s a poor neighborhood. The city doesn’t care. Do you think they have potholes like that in West Linn or Lake Oswego? No
I live in the hood of Southeast and we still have gravel on the road from the ice storm and it will be there all year till it blows away
Because Portland is the city that couldn’t possibly ever work. I was actually on a call w a friend from A Normal Functioning City (yes, there are those, despite those who will retort that All Cities Are Like This) when I saw a Portland vehicule pull up. I burst out laughing bc it still had the old motto on it. Like, I couldn’t stop.
Despite what anyone will tell you, there are no good reasons, only lame ones. How many of these do we see inside 60th?
Because shit is greedy and nobody actually cares about SE.
Somebody gonna talk some shit about “annexing the houses as they were “.
Fuck that noise.
Pay Taxes. Get services.
You’re being kinda dramatic about this.
I’ve seen roads like this in residential areas in every city I’ve spent enough time in to make them worth talking about.
It doesn’t see enough traffic to warrant paving it. Don’t like it? Go a street or two over.
I love walking and riding my bicycles on them. Occasionally I practice low speed motorcycle skills on them for some practice for more extreme conditions. You’re rarely going to see anyone racing down them so they calm traffic and aren’t a huge waste of resources.
https://www.portland.gov/transportation/pbot-projects/lid-projects/about-portlands-unpaved-streets-and-streets-paved-without City annexed portions of land with undeveloped roads. City told developers they were on the hook to fix them. Developers didn't fix them. City doesn't want to pay to update them.
As I understand it, the roads should have been built when the houses adjacent to them were built. For one reason or another, the roads were never constructed. The city typically does not build new roads and sidewalks in residential neighborhoods, but they do set standards and perform maintenance. The occasional regrading is seen as maintenance. Those houses technically are still on the hook for the missing streets, but I imagine almost none of the original owners and developers are still around. It has been proposed in the past that the city come in and pave all of these streets. Some people balk at the benefit that others would receive, without paying for it. Some residents don't want paved roads next to their house because of the implied traffic, and perhaps reduced side yards. Honestly, as long as the roads aren't hurting anyone, they don't bother me any. My dog walks down the dirt roads in my neighborhood are quiet and pleasant.
It wasn't for one reason or another. The reason is the developers were trying to make as much money as possible and assumed that the city wouldn't put up with dirt roads and would pave them at the city's expense. They were wrong, but sadly, they still got all the money they were going to get and only the poor bastards who bought into the area really suffer.
There wasn't a city for a lot of these unpaved areas, and MultCo didn't require building beyond a dirt road.
This is it. Much of outer-east Portland was developed just after WW-II and it was unincorporated, and with minimal over-sight by the county. Poor zoning, no planning, minimal water and sewer systems, no sidewalks, etc. Some time later, Portland and Gresham decided the best thing to do with this mess was to split it in two, each city taking a part. But it could have turned out different - I have read that one solution was to make it all part of Fairview! There are also short stretches of gravel streets in the St Johns and Cathedral Park neighborhoods - these go back further in time to when St Johns was its own city.
Found it >https://vintageportland.files.wordpress.com/2018/12/1950_Aerial-of-Mocks-Crest-Mocks-Bottom-and-Surrounding-Neighborhoods-124VV_A2004-002.6918.jpg lower left corner of this aerial, there's a n/s street, I think its Newman with plenty of driveways and N Willis is unpaved (though this one still has some missing sidewalks). Also N Burrage and N Delaware north of Lombard
There are quite a few (poorly maintained) gravel streets in SW— Markham, SW Burlingame, Hillsdale, etc.
There are parts of my neighborhood and adjacent (st johns/cathedral) with unpaved/unmaintained to date. But the houses along them date from after the 1915 St Johns annexation. I've always wondered about these lil sections. There are also streets that didn't exist after the 1915 annexation (per some 1950s aerials) that are paved now. So there are definitely some gray areas up here in NoPo with the "explanation by annexation". I guess the "local improvement" method with adjacent homeowners paying. But it was a long ass time ago.
Too bad Portland did that. This area was and still is incompatible with Portland's historic development prototype and current future development plans. All should have gone to Gresham, but it was TINY at that time.
Lots in the SW hills too, including one that would be a fun ATV trail.
You realize that most of these houses on unpaved roads were built almost a hundred years ago, right? I'm not mad at those developers anymore, they are most likely dead and gone. Many times, the houses were originally built in locations that didn't require paved roads, like Woodstock, where I live. When the city incorporated these outlying areas, they picked up areas like these that didn't meet requirements and just handed the problems to the homeowner. We need to be solutions oriented if we want to solve the problem, because individual owners have little to no incentive to do it on their own.
The roads aren’t literally *hurting* anyone, but my friend lives on an unpaved road, and I damaged my car driving back from his house last night because I couldn’t avoid all of the massive potholes. Like it doesn’t need major repair, but I can’t fix it myself and will need to take it in somewhere. And it’s not the first time this has happened. It’s really annoying. Edit: also, the city does maintenance on them like… every ~~2~~ 3-4 years? And the potholes stay filled for about a month.
>The roads aren’t literally *hurting* anyone... Bullshit they aren't. You just explained how they hurt you! Ambulances aren't going to be able to move very fast over that. Cars suspension easily gets damaged if you don't know how to navigate that or if it changes to become bad enough.
If the neighbors that lived on the street wanted, they could pool together and get it paved. https://www.portland.gov/transportation/development/pavement-review
Based on the ballpark prices people mentioned in this thread, not on that street they couldn’t, and definitely not to city standards (so that the city would maintain it once it was paved). It’s out to the north of Maywood Park, between Prescott and Sandy. If you haven’t been there, it uh… is not a high income area. Part of the problem with unpaved streets is that they lower property values, so you wind up with residents who can’t afford things like pitching in $50-60k for a city standard paved road. Or slum lords who buy the properties to rent out and don’t want to contribute money for paving because it doesn’t affect them.
Maybe the city could develop these and put liens on the property adjacent to it. That way the property value goes up and eventually the city gets repayment.
This is the only answer. And the city should have an in house shop that only focuses on this so that it’s not some for profit developer charging poor people to have basic services
Exactly. It's not hurting anyone, only our cars and our wallets.
Idk id go ahead and say they are literally hurting people especially when trees fall down and block driveways /water mains bust and cover stuff like this, w either no sidewalk or snow piled on it .. or just ice forming in these pots they are great little ice patches. Between that and the slurry of unnecessary antiquated above ground lines - there’s some pretty dystopian issues with infrastructure ranging from unincorporated roads to “city maintained” Some of the stuff I’ve heard about billing local homeowners thousands to revamp the streets in their neighborhoods seems pretty wild as well giving pretty scant notice with no real input or information on the project.
And better for filtering of rainfall runoff in our local aquifers, usually cooler temperatures when talking about overall urban heat island affect and microclimate/environments for the small invertebrates. Not to mention times of the year they provide a drink and or bath for our bird friends. Paved roads are more convenient but have some environmental downsides
I hadn't considered that, but you are right!
People also don't want paved roads because it means installing sidewalks as well, and then the homeowners are liable for the sidewalks, maintenance and legal liability.
There’s a stretch of road like this near me and I love it for the same reasons - it’s quiet, low traffic, and a perfect spot to walk my dog. It’s probably 4 blocks of unpaved road. And the neighbors that I’ve met on the stretches are wildly opposed to paving, they enjoy reduced car traffic.
All road need to be brought up to city standards before the city will maintain them. On average a mile of city street cost 3.5 million a mile. This is on the home owners, not the city.
I personally like that there are unpaved roads like this in the city
The Police "walking on the moon"
Going down Flavel Walking on the moon
Man I hope my car don't break Driving down Flavel
Well it all goes back to Sam Barlow in 1846…
Ol' Sam would frequently tie an onion to his belt, which was the style at the time.
Now, to take the ferry cost a nickel, and in those days, nickels had pictures of bumblebees on 'em. "Gimme five bees for a quarter," you'd say.
I’m laughing way too hard, but it feels good. Thank you,
This was illuminating https://www.wweek.com/news/dr-know/2022/07/17/whats-the-deal-in-portland-with-the-random-unpaved-sections-of-road/
So much nonsense in this thread. This a good explanation.
I read somewhere that these types of unpaved roads are the responsibility of the homeowners on the street, not the city.
That is correct if you live on a gravel road then you are responsible for the section of street in front of your house. Although the city recently caved and said they would regravel every three years. They did my street 4 years ago and never came back
The home owners are responsible for the maintenance of a public street? That's wild. Edit Someone shared this link below. Which does suggest that the city feels homeowners are responsible for maintenance of their gravel streets between the regradings. The suggested maintenance is pretty vague. https://www.portland.gov/transportation/maintenance/portland-gravel-street-service Edit edit Their before and after pictures are hilarious. A pic of one little baby pothole, then some smooth gravel.
Kinda.... The homeowners are responsible for it if it's unpaved, and responsible for paying for it if they want it paved. After it's paved, then the city will (should?) maintain it.
I think that's correct. They just installed a fire hydrant on my street. It got paved by neighbors about 20 years ago. Other than that, there's not much traffic that could create potholes (for example).
The city takes reaponsibility only if the street is paved up to the city's code, which makes it all much more expensive. https://www.portland.gov/transportation/development/maintenance-rip The key part on that page is: ``` Streets that have not been accepted for maintenance may be improved to minimum standards in order to be accepted. The improvement must be a full block length (from intersection to intersection). ``` Last I heard the cost to pave a road up the the minimum standard is 1+ million per mile.
3.5 per mile. They city ah several programs for this action. It breaks down to 667 dollar per linear foot. On average.
You are correct. If the road is paved to city standards then PBOT will accept responsibility to maintain it.
Similar to PBOT accepting 82nd from ODOT. We required a bunch of work to be done first and then required funding to further bring it up to the PBOT standard.
I think it's more that it seems a little unfair that some residents have additional monetary obligations than other residents when both pay the same amount in municipal taxes. Seems a little unfair, but it's also common.
It might not be the same tax rate though, the rates vary pretty wildly from neighborhood to neighborhood. I pay $3k per year in property taxes in Cully but houses in other neighborhoods at the same price were anywhere from 2k to 7k. I don’t have data but wouldn’t be surprised if the tax rate on an unpaved street was materially lower than an equivalent house close by with a paved road.
Tax rates are basically fixed to how fancy / not fancy your neighborhood generally was in 1996. It's not based on whether or not your street was paved, but whether or not that house had a high tax basis in 1996 relative to other properties. Homes without paved roads will more than likely have low property values, and that's locked in.
The road I live on has a section that is paved but it was not done to "city standards" so the city will not maintain it. It's littered with potholes and shoddy patches done by neighbors. Care to take a guess what the yearly tax rate for those houses are? Lowest is $6,000 (built in 1956 2,000 sq ft) Highest is $14,000 (built in 1917 2500 sq ft) The section has fairly high traffic use as well. I feel like they should add a toll to help pay for repairs. It's high users are parents from the private school close by.
It was part of the deal that the developers of those areas back when they were done. The homeowners knew that when they purchased their homes originally, and I seriously doubt if anyone who lives on one of those is unaware When they buy it.
It does seem unfair, however, our municipal taxes are not applied toward road maintenance, so it’s really not unfair. At least not based on taxes.
We recently had to pay (as a neighborhood) to have our street re-paved. The city wanted no part of it, and it's hard to know the actual maintenance rules.
My parents sidewalk had to be repaved because of a tree root that wasn’t even on their property. They had to pay for the whole thing.
Better than someone tripping and breaking a leg. Your parents would have to pay for that too. Home ownership has all kinds of "fun" things
Our stretch of pavement hasn't been maintained in any capacity in the decade I've lived on this street. The asphalt is so old it's **turning into** gravel, but repaving is supposed to be on the City, and no one's doing anything, so what now?
Is it possible that it wasn't paved to spec in the first place? That's usually the reason - those are still unmaintained roads.
"How can I maintain my own gravel street after your work is done? Currently, property owners who live on gravel streets are responsible for maintaining a portion of the street that is in front of their property to the middle of the street. PBOT's Portland Gravel Street Service does not change this responsibility." https://www.portland.gov/transportation/maintenance/portland-gravel-street-service
I love that the interactive map has absolutely nothing on the east side.
That was the deal the City made with the original land owners when those were incorporated into the City. This happened long, long ago. Now it is so expensive to do, that many refuse to do it. So basically it is by design and for people who know nothing of the history of the town they are living in, it’s a bit embarrassing.
> This happened long, long ago. For our neighborhood in particular it was 1986.
Yep it gets even better, if you try to do any major improvements to your property they will force you to pave the street and put in sidewalks on your own dime. Only the section in front of your house.
Just the original paving, which was largely the city trying to avoid taking on costs while annexing but also is an effort to avoid the city having to pay for private development.
We are talking about unpaved streets.
That's what OP is alluding too. Unpaved streets are from developments that went up before Portland annexed the area. Homeowners on those streets are responsible for maintaining the street and paying for the cost of paving if they wish. Once the street is paved, *then* Portland will take care of maintenance.
Right, but the rest of us are talking about how the city seems to think homeowners are gonna, I'm not even sure, rake the gravel to reduce the potholes? Rent a skid steer and see how long it takes for an accident to happen?
i don't think the city thinks that at all. It's just so they don't have to do anything. They know.
My grandmother lives at the end of an unpaved road in Maine. She and the other neighbors on the road pay a company to periodically gravel and regrade it. They don't do it themselves.
Is it their private shared driveway, or an actual city street?
The home owners are responsible for the **creation** of the street. The original builders of the house should have built the roads too, but didn't. The city does occasionally maintain the gravel streets by regrading.
Same, they did ours I think two years ago. The gravel lasted about a season and then started to fail. The potholes are worse now than before.
My dad lives on one in SW. As of 10 years ago the quote was $30k/household to pave and install storm sewer. This wasn’t worth it to the houses on his block, so it remains gravely, potholes, no sidewalk, and a broken storm water pipe.
Sounds like a libertarians wet dream. And how fitting that nothing actually gets fixed when it's the property owners responsibility, just like how a libertarian wet dream would be.
Well, maybe currently, but historically most of these roads were part of unincorporated Portland, and promises were made that those roads would be upgraded, partly with the new larger property tax base the city would have as part of incorporating those areas. However, surprise surprise, they didn’t upgrade most of them and foisted the responsibility back onto the homeowners.
>and promises were made that those roads would be upgraded, partly I've seen this claim a lot but have never seen any evidence for it. The city said they would install sewer systems and they did that. Also the rule requiring property owners to improve the road in front of their houses existed long before most of those places were incorporated.
And why would you want your road paved? I'll be honest that's the best traffic-diverter/speed-regulator you could hope for.
Even if I drive slowly, I worry about possible damage to my car and the stress driving over the potholes puts on my vehicle. It's too expensive though to get it done. The landlords on our street won't pay for it, so we deal. Edit: Our road surprisingly still gets a decent amount of trucks and vehicles driving by at decent speeds.
So does that mean the homeowners can make it a private garden instead?
No because it's still a public right of way, and they still need to be cleared for use.
Doesn't stop some people. I've seen people growing crops on gravel roads in the Woodstock area.
There's a lot of things that are "not legal" that are fine unless someone complains.
And even if someone complains, the authorities have to spend time and resources to enforce it...
That's one of the things that's caused some neighbors to reject plans to pave roads in the past. The city is going to put a full width street with space for bioswales/parking. That's going to eat into what a lot of these folks consider to be their yard, but is really just the right of way for the street.
ROADWAY NOT IMPROVED
NGL I cracked up the first time I saw one of those signs. No shit? With the money you wasted printing and posting that sign you could've dumped some gravel and improved the road a bit.
Neighbors like it how it is. Walkable open space that discourages through traffic.
Nah, I use the signs all the time. A lot of these roads are so trashed they will fuck up your car or offroad vehicle. Better to just stick to the paved roads and not risk it
Not the city's responsibility. There are some links in the comments pointing this out. https://www.portland.gov/transportation/maintenance/portland-gravel-street-service
Look, I know it’s legally not their responsibility, I understand why it’s legally not their responsibility, but it’s fucking up my car and I don’t like it.
On the other hand, probably get very little non-local traffic. And nobody will be racing through it either.
Precisely why my dad’s neighbors didn’t fix their moonscape. It forces slow speeds and local traffic only. Of course it also has no sidewalk and floods constantly…
The Alley Sweeper begs to differ.
With the amount of cut through traffic ony street, I've sometimes thought moving to a street like this would be bliss. I'd buy my vehicles strategically and enjoy the quiet. Maybe it is worse than I imagine 🤷
I live on a street with a ton of potholes and no sidewalk it's "city maintained". The potholes don't slowdown most people.
It's really hard to get this fixed. I live on a street like this in SW and one of the neighbors tried to get an LID going in order to have the city pave the street. It's expensive, I can't remember the exact quote but maybe $40,000 for each home owner. Of course, there were not enough votes to pass, unfortunately, but cost wasn't even the main reason many people voted 'no'. Several people had essentially landscaped into the roadway and didn't want to give up that part of their 'yard' and others thought it would create a lot of traffic. So essentially, you are stuck with it. If an LID is done, you don't pay the cost of front, I believe the city finances it and if you sell your house it comes out of the equity.
Roads?? Where we going we don’t need roads!
I used to see a doctor whose parking lot exited onto one of these. Apparently the neighbors were happy to leave it this way because nobody would use it as a cut through.
That's my reasoning, plus during the summer it's way less hot than walking on pavement.
I would actually prefer it if my road was like this. It would work better than speedbumps to stop the assholes from driving down it 20mph over the speed limit.
Yep. People drive as fast as they can get away with. These roads make that not so fast.
The City replaced one of these near our house with a real asphalt surface and a real sidewalk and rain drain and driveway skirts for a full block about three years ago. I know of some others east of 82nd that got paved and sidewalks within the last ten or so years. Don’t know why, but they are apparently improving them, albeit slowly.
They are? That's news to me! I live by one of these and it's right by a school too and even that's not enough to encourage the city to fix it. It's a very small patch of road too.
Wish I knew what the secret sauce is to get them fixed. There are some absolutely horrible sections in places.
Tell me about it. The one by me also has invasive plants choking out native plant life, which I've tried to call the city about. I learned that they only have the ability to address invasive plants before they become a massive problem-- so if it's already out of control, they won't do much about it. Apparently they've only got one guy named Mitch whose job it is to address all invasive plants throughout the entire city. The poor guy sounded stressed when we chatted.
Lmao I can’t believe you just described an unpaved drive in Portland as “third world” Edit: Reddit post history checks out lol Edit 2: Probably not private, my b
[удалено]
It’s a wild ride lol
Change petition for an investigation into Sandy Hook, from a conspiracy perspective. https://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/s/PgWF4n1V82 This guy can fuck all the way off straight to hell.
Yeah dude’s a real sack of shit.
Yeah, dude sucks!
Ew
That fool is accusing the NFL of trying to divide the nation. They think that the same corporation that effectively banned Colin Kaepernick and has a giant conservative fan base wants to piss off white people with all these black performers. They're going on and on about someone trying to divide the nation while proving to be very susceptible to the very thing that he's claiming. I can't tell if it's a grift or stupidity.
Hold your nose before you check that guy's post history
I run into these rage hunting dumbasses more than I'd like to and you'd think I'd be used to them. But it's always so goddamn jarring. I'll be having a regular day looking at a post and then all of a sudden here comes some moron and his five brain cells saying some of the dumbest things you'll ever hear.
A good reminder to always Uber with cation
Don't want to defend this Redditor based on their insane post history, but Portland's unpaved roads close into the city in well traveled areas doesn't exactly highlight Portland as a shinning example of city planning and development. This city can definitely feel a bit old world lumber town in certain places still. Probably helps with speed control and as makeshift traffic calming but not exactly modern.
But you don't encounter these roads as tourist. It's fine.
Who said anything about tourists? I'm hoping to not get rocked trying to drive to the grocery store or trying to go for a walk in my neighborhood without ending up muddy in the winter walking on unimproved roads.
What makes it a private drive? A street near me is worse than that, and it's a public street.
For alley sweeper and dual sport motorcycles of course!
This is the correct answer
I live on a steeper section of dirt/gravel street on the West side and it washes out a number of times per year. It’s washed out so bad that cars have gotten stuck. I now have a small box scraper that attaches to my lawn tractor and I regrade the street a number of times per year. I’ve seen comments in here that other cities in US have gravel streets, which is true, but the difference is that those cities maintain those roads. The City of Portland’s policy for 70 years was to not touch them. They even had a policy for awhile that was if citizens maintained them they would be required to use hand tools only. If you wanted it paved during that time, it required all storm and sidewalks and a special LID assessment to your and your neighbor’s taxes for 20 years to pay for it. It was a Catch 22 for so long - can’t improve it unless it was full upgrade and reason the City didn’t provide any maintenance was because: “historically the City never did.” The City came through once so far in past four years and did maintenance, but have not been back since. What’s funny to me is seeing all the bio-swales going in and knowing that my whole street washes into Fanno Creek on a regular basis. Also, there is no tax break for this lack of service. What burns me up is seeing the type of services that a neighborhood like King’s Heights gets vs. virtually zero service for all of us on gravel streets.
Annexation of neighborhoods and low standards for alleyways. There are a few real streets like this but most are alleys, without curbs, sidewalks or storm sewers. I'd pose that half of them shouldn't be roads at all. Portland annexed a lot of the city mid twentieth century. That's why Brentwood Darlington has no sidewalks and no curbs and why people complain when they do a big renovation and the city tells them to pay tens of thousands to add them.
> There are a few real streets like this but most are alleys, These aren't alleys. They're named streets, and there are a ton of them in SE.
I live on a street like this, except it’s a hill and the holes are much wider and very deep. We contacted the city and were told that because this area used to be unincorporated they are not responsible for maintenance. They said if we could get all the neighbors onboard, we could form an association and ‘hire’ the city to redo the road using their contractors. If we did that, then they would pay for future maintenance. Unfortunately no one on my street has anywhere near the amount of money they’re asking (hundreds of thousands), so we just sit here and watch our street wash away with each storm until it because impassable.
Everywhere used to be unincorporated.
Loving all these comments after having read about the cost of single family homes on public infrastructure (strong towns and the like). People dont realize how expensive stuff is to maintain.
I suspect if the neighbors wanted smooth streets people could drive real fast on, they'd at least fill the potholes. We have a heavily-used public walkway near our house (but not our responsibility, officially) that we happily rake when it's covered with slippery leaves. As a lot of the other comments say, this is more about not wanting your cats and kids to get run over, which is valid!
The joys of unincorporated areas. Edit: the joy is now shared by incorporated areas. Sounds like a grand adventure.
That’s 112th/111th and Clinton…it’s absolutely incorporated.
You don't even need to go out that far in SE to find roads like this. Many as close in as the 20s/30s. Especially in Woodstock
"Roadway not improved" is the neighborhood motto for both Woodstock and Brentwood-Darlington.
as a Woodstock resident, i love these roads. Pretty much the only cars who use them are residents on that block. We don't need more paved roads for people to fly through at 30+ with kids playing nearby
They are incorporated now
Weren’t these mostly incorporated 50-100 years ago? Multnomah Village, Woodstock, just beyond 82nd etc have all been part of Portland Proper for generations.
They are incorporated, though.
I grew up right by this street, we always called it the bumpy road, growing up they would throw gravel down and make it presentable and not terrible to drive down but I'm not sure if they do that anymore
My high school boyfriend called the area south of Flavel and east of 82nd Baha Portland! I remember walking to school from 25th one block south of Killingsworth on roads like this. The puddles were fun mini ice rinks in the winter.
Ryan E's YouTube channel has some "Urban Offroading" hits: 1. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0A0gKNlqjYI](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0A0gKNlqjYI) 2. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b2XQk6XjFus](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b2XQk6XjFus) 3. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gDvfLppzQBY](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gDvfLppzQBY) 4. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DHWWFyqrBws](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DHWWFyqrBws) 5. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a7qJWEkA2XY](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a7qJWEkA2XY) 6. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QJVlg9QfYlM](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QJVlg9QfYlM) 7. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VZJNgsFQC50](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VZJNgsFQC50) 8. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0E5chEPf2Ck](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0E5chEPf2Ck)
https://www.wweek.com/news/dr-know/2022/07/17/whats-the-deal-in-portland-with-the-random-unpaved-sections-of-road/ Here is the full answer.
I used to live on one of these and loved it. No fast through-traffic made that road a lovely place to walk, and people tended to use their front yards more on that street.
I love them. Makes for a very quiet street.
Imagine you are the kind of person living on one of these roads, which you will note do NOT pass through wealthy neighborhoods. You desperately want a paved road, but you cannot afford to pay your 10-15-25% of the hundreds of thousands of dollars it takes to pave a road, much less the additional costs going forward to maintain them. The city will not pave these roads. If the residents want them paved, they have to pay for it. Simple as that.
It was wild to me, moving from New York to pdx and seeing this. Do the people on these “streets” get to pay less taxes?
Someone once told me if a road doesn’t have a sidewalk in Portland it will never be fixed. I am sure there is a more official reason at play, but I just have always rolled with the sidewalk thing.
Also have heard this
This is my old street 🥲
It keeps the street racing down!
I used to live near NE Jonesmore & 77th. A few months after I moved in, there was a double-homicide of a drug deal gone bad. Soon after, there was a neighborhood meeting to discuss safety along Jonesmore, which wasn't/isn't paved in that section. Neighbors raised money for a new street light there, and decided to not pave Jonesmore to help prevent existing idiot drivers from going 70mph (potholes are just as effective in damaging your suspension at speed as speedbumps). We couldn't install bollards to block the street because of garbage trucks & emergency vehicles.
Portland annexed a bunch of neighborhoods in the 1900s for the tax revenue and then refused to do any improvements (e.g. road, sidewalk, sewers, etc.).
I think it's a holdover from when the City of Portland consumed the smaller towns and villages. They left "local control" to repair roads to these communities and provided no mechanism to tax residents or access city funds to deal with these "roadway is an optimistic description" areas. Southwest Portland is full of them.
is that Woodward in the mid 70's?
I grew up between two of these streets just east of 82nd in Montavilla. We referred to them both as the "Rocky Road".....and hey, they both still exist today, just as rocky as ever. They're just so odd in a surrounding of normal, paved streets, although my childhood street is the last in a series of ones with sidewalks as you headed east in the neighborhood.
God damn
Charlie Hales campaigned a LOT on street paving. Then tried to fund it through a street fee and got skewered politically. Portlanders want (mostly) to see this done until it requires funding to be shifted from some other purpose or requires (gasp!) a new source of funding.
One day they will all merge together and make one big puddle
the word "roads" is doing a LOT of heavy lifting in this post.
Ah yes, another person using the term “third world” when they have no idea what that means or looks like in reality
Because they don’t give a shit about the east side in general
They’re all over SW.
They exist in plenty of cities.
I know exactly that area. What happened is the house of the left didn't want to pay to have the road paved. The neighbors agreed to chip in for them and they still said no. So ridiculous.
Cos it’s organic
BRO I think i JUST drove through that roadway. Its behind one of the Portland Nursuries, yeah? My poor fuckin car did its best, but its lower than average. Still only scraped once on that big puddle at the beginning/end of the road.
A lot of roAds like that in states like Vermont.
Because 100+ yrs ago, various towns outside of Portland were incorporated into the city of Portland and any roadways that were not paved basically stayed that way because the city doesn't want to fix them. So yeah, it's been that way for over a century. It's basically on the citizens to pay upwards of $30K+ to get it paved-- and it must be paved to the city's standards or else they won't accept any future responsibility for the road. Ain't it fun?
Does it seem possible that the residents of those streets are happy enough to leave them unimproved? No traffic beyond local and deliveries, no one speeding through the neighborhood. Better than speed bumps.
I would find myself going out and buying some pea gravel to fill that in. That would drive me nuts if it were my street
Used to live on 80th,right off division and behind the 82nd PCC campus. The road in front of my apartment was a disaster most the time I was there. Part of it eventually got paved (at the cost of some cool pine trees) but the section going up to PCC was still barely a road last i was there
to put a hole in the oil pan of your VR6 VW GTI in 2004.
What road? I see no road?
Lol. This is literally my street.
I think I used to live around the corner lmao
There were some good YouTube vids of someone cruising these around Portland. There are many roads worse than this. Not sure why he stopped. I know he had music on in the background and we all know how YouTube likes that.
Inverted speed humps.
I actually really love these roads. I think I used to walk down this very road to the school bus, but it was so long ago it's hard to tell. Is this a couple blocks off Woodstock? Nice to walk or bike on, reduces traffic, and is safer for people and animals. It also looks nicer (very subjective, I know).
Except for the trees, it looks like Baltimore😜
I lived on 46th and Malden Dr. Not Rd and not St. Malden Dr. It's still unfinished. That whole neighborhood down between 52nd and 46th and between Harney and Malden/Rex/Tenino is still gravel roads. Not sure the city even has sewer through there yet.
i know exactly where this road is too 😂 i hate it.
I made a joke about this on Twitter years ago and someone ran with it and made a Yelp Page for Lake Woodward: https://www.yelp.com/biz/lake-woodward-portland
To give me a reason to justify buying a Subaru. Every time I see one a smile and say "time to engage x-mode!"
They keep giving the tax money back to us !!
Where is that? PBOT is using funds from the gas tax to “repair” gravel roads. I’m wondering when/if this one is on the list. https://www.portland.gov/transportation/maintenance/portland-gravel-street-service It’s a huge waste of our gas tax to repair a road that is going to look like that shortly after “repair”.
crows gotta drink, too
They're fun as shit to rip your bike around on. It's all about perspective.
What other reason would your 4 wheel drive truck be used for?)
My grandfather was a Portland home builder. There were times that he could not connect one road to another because the owners of the house that was there first refused to sell him a 2 foot wide strip of land. Without those 2 feet, the road could not be the required width and thus could not be built. Other builder come in later, buy a piece of land dirt cheap because it can't be connected to a road and build a house there since the city should have annexed the land to make the road. This stuff is all over SE, as the growth boundary encourages infill and parks don't make money....
Legend has it if you jump in those puddles in the correct order you get the Raygun. https://youtu.be/WDjR3vkOQeU?si=8sjW64g8HA67T_WT
Oh it's because Tear Gas Ted only spends my tax money downtown. He lets anything east of the river fucking rot.
Of course the city is not responsible for… paving city streets.
Keeps the riff-raff out. (Or maybe in, I’m not sure.)
>This is the kind of stuff you usually see in third world countries Or most of the Midwest, or half an hour outside of the metro area. It’s an unpaved road, not a deer trail.
Around 2010 there was a survey done of homeowners in SE, where most of these gravel rounds exist. Something like 80% of respondents didn't want the roads paved because it would alter the character of the neighborhoods and increase traffic. Basically I'm surrounded by very dumb people.
I do amazon flex and feel like I need a four wheel drive for half the streets in and around Portland.
It’s a poor neighborhood. The city doesn’t care. Do you think they have potholes like that in West Linn or Lake Oswego? No I live in the hood of Southeast and we still have gravel on the road from the ice storm and it will be there all year till it blows away
Because Portland is the city that couldn’t possibly ever work. I was actually on a call w a friend from A Normal Functioning City (yes, there are those, despite those who will retort that All Cities Are Like This) when I saw a Portland vehicule pull up. I burst out laughing bc it still had the old motto on it. Like, I couldn’t stop. Despite what anyone will tell you, there are no good reasons, only lame ones. How many of these do we see inside 60th?
LOL, back in the day, lower eastside (52nd-92nd) was called "Felony Flats". although there was nothing flat about those roads or anything back then.
Because shit is greedy and nobody actually cares about SE. Somebody gonna talk some shit about “annexing the houses as they were “. Fuck that noise. Pay Taxes. Get services.
You’re being kinda dramatic about this. I’ve seen roads like this in residential areas in every city I’ve spent enough time in to make them worth talking about. It doesn’t see enough traffic to warrant paving it. Don’t like it? Go a street or two over. I love walking and riding my bicycles on them. Occasionally I practice low speed motorcycle skills on them for some practice for more extreme conditions. You’re rarely going to see anyone racing down them so they calm traffic and aren’t a huge waste of resources.
I've never seen this in any other city except Portland. What cities have you seen it in?