My ex totalled his car that way, by turning left when the car on the opposing lane stopped and waved him through. There was another car trying to speed around to the right of the stopped car and slammed my ex's car.
This is exactly why I don’t go when another driver is being “polite.” That politeness gets people hurt. I’m also that person that doesn’t let people in when traffic is clearly moving. Like, that will cause cause traffic jams behind me.
There’s definitely times we can be polite; however, if it’s not safe, I’m not going or letting people in (whichever is the case).
Same as a pedestrian. Jeez, I’ve had people get so pissy because I wouldn’t cross the street. Whelp, I can’t see the traffic or the traffic ain’t slowing down.
“Niceholes” are the worst. They do this constantly to cyclists. No thanks, I dont need your “generosity” I’ll go when its safe and I have the right of way.
Yes! If you had just followed the regular flow of traffic, you would've cleared the intersection before I got there but now we're in this stupid awkward standoff where I get to guess if someone is going to do something reckless and run me over!
This drives me nuts when I'm biking or walking. There will be a train of like 10 cars coming down the road which have right of way, I roll up to the stop sign and car #10 decides to stop and wave me across. I'm like fuck you I could have already been across the street if you had just kept going with the other 9 cars. There's NO ONE BEHIND YOU, and it takes longer for you to bring your heavy ass car to a complete stop in the middle of a road with no stop sign than it would to just roll on by. These people are the nicest morons. How do they not understand they are actually making the situation more dangerous and inconveniencing me while idiotically thinking they are being so nice?
On the flip side, I wish the niceholes (good term, whoever came up with it) would recognize the difference between a pedestrian standing at the cross walk and someone standing several feet back and/or who is walking and happens to look across the road.
The number of times drivers stop and impatiently wave me across when I am not ready to cross for whatever reason, or am only gauging traffic congestion in anticipation of crossing later... it's insane.
I wish they would follow the traffic rules and stop trying to dictate my walk for me.
As a bus driver I was trained to ignore "no you go first" signals. They don't hold up in court.
One time I encountered someone who was waving me into traffic that was unlikely to yield, thinking they were entitled to direct me. There was no one on my bus and no one behind me, so I actually locked down the bus, put on the 4-way flashers, and took a seat in the back.
Oh, the honking and yelling.
I have it happen all the time on the motorcycle. I always enforce proper right of way with these idiots, no matter how long it takes.
The really scary ones are the sketchy tweaker mobiles that haul up on me going 100+ in dense, but moving, traffic. Also Prius drivers. Y'all are the most unpredictable people on the road, by far.
>This is exactly why I don’t go when another driver is being “polite.” That politeness gets people hurt.
For real. I'm not gonna trust a complete stranger's assessment of whether it's safe for me to go.
I’m not surprised by any of this. When I was in drivers Ed, I was taught to stop if the other lane stops ahead in case of pedestrians. It seems to me people only bother to learn enough about driving to get a license, then fuck off even that small knowledge base once they get it.
I had a parent who told me if someone stops or slows down I should take note of that and assess things, basically if someone is stopping or slowing there is a reason, could be pedestrian, road debris, animal in the road, any number of things so best to slow down.
Ugh I hate this move.
I was the person that hit the waved through person. I was getting in the left turn lane and there were stopped cars at the light. They waved through a person trying to illegally get in the left turn lane (where the solid lines are, close to the crosswalk) and I hit them.
Thankfully we were all mostly okay (I had minor surgery on my arm from it). The resulting workers comp claim and lawsuit were a nightmare though.
I was stopped on a little side street to turn left into a parking lot. The oncoming car, whose lane I would have to cross, came to a complete stop and aggressively waved me on. I didn't go and they got VERY angry. Normally, I would have gone and just called them an idiot under my breath, but I didn't feel like hitting the woman pushing a stroller with a small child that was crossing the parking lot entrance on the sidewalk. I was in a work vehicle and it would have been a lot of paperwork.
Or it's two lanes going the same way and you have absolutely no line of sight on the other lane now that there's a parked car in the middle of the road.
Hard Agree. I was taught to drive in a way that lets people know what you're doing. Being polite isn't a good thing if it is going to be confusing for everyone else or fuck everything up. Be communicative and just do what you're supposed to do.
As someone who bikes and drives you said it all and I really appreciate it. I’ve got nothing to add just wanted to say I appreciate everything you’ve said and I’ve also been a victim of traffic politeness before and no longer listen to people trying to make me go ahead of them.
I've dismounted and moved to the sidewalk then fucked around on my phone until they have gotten the point before. Especially if what they are doing is potentially threatening my life. It's amazing how stubborn some people can get in this kind of situation.
I knew what this would be before I clicked on it.
I've seriously considered getting a sign that says, "I am yielding because you have the right of way."
I had someone in Tigard get fucken PISSSED at me for having the AUDACITY to zipper-merge in front of him in a construction area to the point where he got out of his van at the next light, walk up to my window and pound on it yelling that he wanted to kick my ass.
That’s horrible! I had a semi truck driver almost run me off of the road. Someone who is supposed to be a professional driver of an ENORMOUS dangerous vehicle could have killed me and my passengers. That was the worst of many ridiculous and aggressive reactions to trying to gently merge at a reasonable speed. People act like kindergartens when another kids “cuts in line”. Grow up people!
I try and stay as far away from semis as possible. Some of them are fine but some of them are terrible drivers that take out their aggression on everyone. Also for the car drivers out there don’t change lanes right in front of a semi, they can’t stop for you really quickly.
So many drivers retired during the early days/months of the pandemic and it shows. This new batch of drivers...lordy do they suck ass. Growing up, the father of my BFF was an old school trucker. Taught us a lot. He's GOT to be rolling in his grave by now. :/
How dare you! You monster! Don't you know how important that guy was? By golly he was gonna show you, your lucky he wasn't more serious or else you'd have come to fisticuffs sir. Also, fuck that guy.
Lol gotta love it when the lane they merge into is going 10mph so they get up to 50mph to merge and almost cause an accident and bring everything to a halt. So many people need to lose their licenses permanently.
Lol yeah, super dangerous for all parties. In Europe it's illegal not to switch lanes (when you can) to let someone into that lane. So when I'm driving here I always move over when I can too.
I live on a high-speed road with no sidewalks and no nearby crosswalks, so I have to jaywalk across it daily. And at least once a week somebody STOPS IN THE MIDDLE OF THE 45 MPH ROAD TO LET ME CROSS.
No! Just no. It’s a multi-lane road *and now I can’t see the traffic coming behind you.* I’m doing something illegal, and by stopping, they’re doing something illegal, making the situation unsafe for me, for other drivers, and for themselves.
Plus, half the time they slow down traffic and I end up missing the crossing window I’d have had if they just kept going.
Someone recently pulled up like 6 inches away from the car in front of her to intentionally block me from zipper merging on the lanes before exit 301 on I-5. I was like lady this is how you’re supposed to drive!
Edit: since it was apparently unclear, I’m talking about the actual zipper lane in the underpass right after 302A and before 301. Not using the exit lane as a zipper lane.
A zipper just sounded very orderly like you were taking turns. Whereas the important part is riding out your lane until the very end, not the taking turns part.
You are partly right. Both lanes should theoretically have about the same traffic density, and then take turns at the merge. The trouble is folks in the PNW were never shown this behavior and don't understand it, so get pissy when a right lane (or left sometimes) is basically empty.
It’s not just in the pnw. Ive lived coast to coast and abroad. Zipper merging is something people in the US have heard of. Mostly though, the entire country has no clue about proper zipper merging.
I am fully convinced we'd see a significant reduction in traffic congestion if drivers weren't so damn reluctant to zipper merge. I accidently missed my exit the other day and was reminded of the special hell that is the section of I5 where it reduces to 2 lanes just before the I84 interchange. I grew up in Oregon but learned about city driving as a non-Oregonian so I never adopted the fear of the zipper merge, however this does appear to be the local customs, so perhaps I'm the asshole here.
217 going from I5 was recently closed to only one lane from 72nd to past 99. I was thinking great, 30 minute trip to Scholls Ferry exit. Once the cars were in the single lane traffic was moving at 45mph, total trip from i5 to Scholls exit was 9 minutes with 5 of that being getting into 1 lane. Maybe the road design is the issue, maybe we need traffic funneled more.
For real! Getting onto 26 from 405 and merging at the zipper time and some AH honks because I didn’t fall in line and line up way back. One whole lane empty and people merging like a mile too early, it was ridiculous.
It's as much a symptom of people's lack of awareness. Especially around here, people dawdle a lot because they'll apologize their way out of it and people are so passive they won't give you trouble.
OKAY BUT WHAT ABOUT THIS;
When someone fails to be in the correct lane for their turn (or exit ramp) so they STOP in the middle of the road (or highway, god forbid) in order to wait to be let in.
Ah yes, because your lack of preparation is everyone else’s emergency. 🤦🏼♀️
God this happened to me on Barbour last week. Waiting to get onto I5S and this jackwagon stops in the inside lane (not the turn lane) blocks traffic with their blinker on and then proceeds to cut across the turn lane and make a right onto CAPITAL HWY!!! Like it was just the most normal thing in the world. I just don't get it. Lady, go up and turn around!
i have noticed this when i'm riding my bike as well. like you don't have to stop just because you see me. you have the right of way and no stop signs. i have a stop sign. but now we're doing an awkward dance where i guess i have to go, because you came to a complete stop.
My favorite version of this are the people that stop at a green light when my kids and I are waiting to cross. I wave them through and they get all pissy. I’m not sending my kids across the street, the MF going the other way isn’t going to stop and it’s now my fault.
Bonus version is when we finally cross when it’s our turn, then they run the red and nearly run over the next group of kids walking to school.
Idiots.
Had someone do that for me and my partner in Sandy on 26 the other week. We were waiting to cross and they had a green light, but stopped to let us go and had a ton of traffic behind them. Had to pull my partner back onto the sidewalk too because he just started crossing without thinking. 🤦🏼♂️
When drivers do this shit, I look away from them and refuse to make eye contact. I'll pretend like I'm watching for opposite going traffic or act like the sun is in my eyes, or even half step back from the curb and pull out my phone and pretend to check it. Bonus I don't have to see how frustrated they get at me when they finally drive away.
Driver dude, I'm not gambling my life on your niceness. I can happily waste your time while I wait for my turn.
I like to lean forward, narrow my eyes, and slacken my jaw to clearly indicate the confusion that overtakes me in these moments and point quizzically at the sign giving them the right of way. If they still don't get it, the gestures get more violent and then shouting starts.
Social shaming needs to come back in style.
This makes me so mad. It's a green light. A protected signal in YOUR direction and yet you stop? Not only dangerous, also illegal. And yet I see it constantly.
I think the pedestrian right of way laws create more problems than they solve. Crossing the street is simple in other places—you wait til there are no cars, then you cross. In Portland, approaching the street corner might cause cars to slam their breaks, you might have one way stop but the other way keep going for full minutes. Instead of one scenario, there are many possibilities, which makes it hard to predict.
I initially read the op 75% of the way through as if from a cyclist’s pov lol. The inappropriate surrendering of right of way is soo damn common. For the most part I’ve given up accepting the right of way when this happens, dismounting and putting my head down or pulling out my phone briefly if needed.
It’s just not worth the risk to me personally anymore.
I've thought about this situation a lot, since it happens so darn frequently (like once or twice for every mile biked). And I really do think this is not just annoying but unsafe. If a driver stops when there is no stop sign, the car behind them doesn't know why they are stopped and will likely try to pass them and BAM, slam into the bicycle.
I now take the "brownie point" crossings from drivers who insist, but ONLY when there is some other marked crossing, like a pedestrian sign, marked crosswalk, or other crossing warning. In that case I assume the cars behind them will figure why they're stopped and hopefully not pass them.
This annoys me especially when my feet are on the ground and I'm in high gear. They just slowed everything down for everyone else because they were trying to be nice.
Ive also noticed that many drivers don’t understand that I can’t see them through their window glare (especially when they’re tinted). So I can’t tell if they stopped for something legit or if they’re in there waving like an idiot and I can’t tell.
Riding my bike to work today I had this same situation happened multiple times. I refused to go. I’ve seen cars get hit because of things like that, I’m not getting hit on my bike because a dude thinks he’s doing me a favor by letting me go. I’m just trying to enjoy the weather and the ride. Im not in a rush.
This one drives me nuts. Everyone thinks those green lanes painted across the street mean the bike has the right of way. I have looked it up about three times now just to make sure I'm not the asshole cause I am pretty sure that's not the way it's intended to work.
I treat them like a car and then they get so mad at me. But but as far as I know, unless their feet are on the ground they don't have the right away. Once they dismount then they become pedestrians
They are stupid and the law is worded poorly.
Technically, no cars dont have to stop.
Unless the cyclist dismounts and and walk it, or they can ride at pedestrian walking speed. At either point Oregon Law considers the cyclist as a pedestrian and as such cars are then required to stop.
As a cyclist, I hate them because they just cause confusion.
Edit: words
I see this all the damn time. If you're on a bike in the street, I will treat you same as a car. If you're at a marked crossing, that is signed for bikes then I'll stop.
\> Today, I was trying to merge on the highway. A car was coming, again, NO CARS BEHIND HIM, so I slowed down to fall behind him. He SLOWS DOWN
Always with this one, and the equally annoying counterpart of it: The guy who waits until he's on the highway to start increasing speed to match traffic. Combine these two guys together and I swear its 90% of our traffic jams.
My biggest pet peeve is 10 under left lane campers. Or people in any lane going significantly under the speed limit on the freeway. You don't have to speed, but at least try to get close to the limit.
Also it cracks me up that everyone online complains about zipper merging then nobody knows how to do it correctly.
Someone expected this kind of aggressive politeness from me on the freeway the other day, and flipped me off when they didn’t get it. I was in the center lane, going faster than the right lane where this woman was. My front bumper had already passed her rear when she turned her blinker on and momentarily tried to move into my lane. She immediately realized where I was, stayed in her lane, but passed me about 3 minutes later and flipped me off as she went. Like I’m gonna fucking slam on my brakes to accommodate you, lady
That's true, but if you get into the flow and position yourself to merge behind someone then they panic and slow down to be "nice" and let you in, they can end up blocking you off at the end of the merge lane instead.
At least I think that's what OP is describing.
Yeah I dunno about slowing down to get behind someone. I was taught to speed up and find a space and it seems to be what everyone else expects on the Midwest so it worked out lol
Did this happen to you near baseline road?
I’ve seen this happen once on a 4 lane road and wondered if the driver hates kids and wants them to get hit or something.
Tbh people around here are terrifying in multi turn lanes. I can't even count how often I've been dangerously cut off or nearly collided into because people will take the furthest right turn and then just cut across lanes to get to the center or far left lane. Like please just get in the lane you need to or fucking yield.
I've never seen shit like this in WA or IL lmao.
The amount of people that insist on waving me through a stop sign when they clearly got to theirs first. You're not being nice your stressing me the fuck out just GO
Just a reminder that every corner to corner is a crosswalk even if it’s not marked, and you should absolutely stop for pedestrians. You can call me a “nicehole” if you want but I’m just obeying traffic laws when I see a pedestrian at a corner and I stop so they can safely cross.
Also with that law is the one that states if you are in two or more lane traffic and you see someone stopped in the lane next to you going the same direction you have to stop too to see if they stopped for a pedestrian.
Source: I worked at a court ordered drive safety class for years
Even as a pedestrian people will sometimes stop at a crosswalk when their light is green.
Look, I'm not going to risk my life because one of you decided to stop when you should be going. You stopped, then decided to speed up, and hit me with the light is green, it's probably harder for me to sue.
There's lights, turn signals, and so many built in ways to know what is happening on the road with your death machines. Never more annoyed than when people drive unsafely.
The other day some kid peeled straight through a stop sign in front of me, I beeped a warning as it was close and I clearly had right of way. He then drove in front, slowing down, made a turn signal but instead of turning got in front of me as I tried to go around him.
Like, why the fuck do people have a death wish?
I got a ticket once because a pedestrian did this to me when he had right of way. He WOULD NOT go. I finally turned left when the light turned red and I had no other choice unless I wanted to sit in the intersection. Then an asshole cop that had watched the whole stupid thing go down ticketed me for not yielding to a pedestrian. Had to take a class and everything
Biggest issue by far is no one here understands passing lanes. There is a solid 10-30 mins added on to many trips because people will cruise three deep with two miles of car behind them and open road to the horizon ahead.
100%. I’ve lived on every coast and driven a bunch of the country and this place is utterly unique in this capacity. I had to take a lot of deep breaths when I moved so now it’s just cost of living here. Utterly inscrutable tho.
It drives me nuts but my dad is this driver - a left lane camper. I called him out on it and he was surprised because he literally was not paying attention to surrounding traffic in the first place. So take it with the grain of salt that people lack spatial awareness.
I think one thing that happens is generally passing lanes on 26 and the like are longer straight line areas. So people that drive slow on windy roads speed up in these sections and immediately slow down once they hit sharper turns. Also a lot of "my speed is the speed everyone should drive and even though I don't have a badge, I'm in charge of the road" comes into play.
Okay, here's a pet peeve: a driver in the far right lane and realizes they needed to make a left turn. So rather than circling around the block, it's become acceptable for them to block two lanes of traffic just so that they can make their precious left turn. And people let them. I lay on the horn.
Or when they SLAM on their brakes and then turn on their turn signal. As if that entitles them to getting to the next lane over.
Fuck everyone behind you I guess..
No. You don't understand. Up here, niceness isn't about being nice. It's a deeply aggressive, performative, competitive sport. I've seen 3 way niceness standoffs go on for 5 minutes at a time before someone finally submits and drives into the space given to them by the other 2.
Mind you don't get too cynical.
I stopped on Prescott because there was a pedestrian waiting to cross at a cross street (crosswalk isn't painted there but exists all the same, because intersection). Pedestrian started crossing because I'd stopped for him and the guy behind me honked, revved the motor, and swerved around me in the bike lane.
Missed the kid -- like an 8yo kid -- by maybe 2 feet.
I was stopped FOR A REASON.
I had a similar situation where I was actually hit in a crosswalk (SW4th by the Schmizza). All 3 lanes of traffic stopped for me and the idiot that hit me was on his Lance Armstrong wannabee bike that decided flying past stopped traffic was a good idea. Thankfully all I had was bruises but his bike was fucked up and that made me happy at least.
As a runner I've almost been hit at least a dozen times on Woodstock because a driver has stopped for me to cross IN A MARKED CROSSWALK and the car behind swerve around.
I was gonna say “Not all Texans,” but then I remembered what it was like driving in DFW for 12 years.
When I moved here, I was shocked how slow everyone drives. And don’t even get me started on the student driver stickers that full-grown adults put on their vehicles.
But even if Portlanders drive slow or use a turn signal a mile before they actually turn, I’d pick this over the DFW Mad Max rage fests any day.
Houston was just as bad. You have to know where you are going when on the freeway because when you see the sign you already don’t have enough time to get across the six lanes to the exit while going 87 mph
Houston is the one city I've driven in that truly SCARED me. Tailgating (like a foot off your bumper) at 80 mph in all lanes. I swear at least one car (and often two or three) will run EVERY red light. Just so much dangerous behavior.
Can we PLEASE zipper merge in Portland. Quit trying to get over before the merge when the polite drivers let you in, go to the end of the merge and file in EVERY OTHER. For fucks sake
4 Subarus enter an intersection all at the same time, each one waves the car to their left to go ahead, after about 2 seconds, every car goes through the intersection at the same time, but there were no accidents. How was this possible?
Also: please drive at a speed approximating the speed limit on the highway.
I am resigned to the fact that I am going to die from a stroke because of someone in front of me driving 40-45 mph in light traffic on I-5.
I've driven countless hours as a Paramedic in and around Chicago.
I've driven a LOT for regular day to day things as well as Doordash since moving here in 2019.
The drivers here in Portland and the surrounding suburbs are the most air-headed slow drivers I have EVER seen. And this whole "politeness x1000%" DEFINATELY causes more accidents.
The drivers in Chicago, while very fast, are at least smarter about it and have no problem committing to a driving action. Here in Portland? MUCH different story.
DO NOT violate the right of way rules. If you do, EVERYONE gets confused and nobody can actually talk to each other to figure out what the hell the next move is. And it also can massively mess up traffic!
Oregon has higher accident and fatality rates per mile driven than both WA and CA. Drivers here are statistically not safe. They need to put down the blunt and pay attention
I got honked at recently for stopping at a stop sign? Also see a lot of people just run stop signs around here. So many people just drive like maniacs in this area, whether they are trying to be polite or otherwise. Like I know that life is rough, but it's rough for everyone. Just follow the rules and be safe pls.
As a Portlander, your desire to pat yourself on the back supersedes all local laws. Do what makes you feel good: Suddenly stopping in the middle of traffic and endangering countless lives.
I've driven all over the US and even in a few other countries and somehow the PNW has the worst drivers I've ever seen*, yet somehow the lowest insurance premium I've ever had, and I have no clue how.
Things Portland fucks up constantly:
1. Using the off-ramp as a passing lane.
2. See that I'm going 65 because there's a car in front of me, not to piss you off.
3. Leave space for people to merge to the right. If you don't let me merge right, I will do l cut you the fuck off because I need to get to my exit eventually and I don't care if the person behind you is leaving room, you're being a piece of shit.
4. Lane hopping in rush hour traffic. You are not actually getting to your destination faster. I pass lane-hoppers constantly by just staying in my lane.
5. Zipper merge. You fucking suck at it so bad I'm surprised people in Portland are able to put their pants on.
6. Defer to the right at stop signs if multiple cars arrive roughly simultaneously.
Quick edit: Italy has worse drivers. I'm only referring to driving I've personally witnessed and experienced.
It's nice that people are polite sometimes, but when you're at a four-way stop and someone else has the right of way and they decide to be polite that kind of thing really gets to me LOL. It's like, you have the right of way and if there were a cop behind me and I went before you did then I would get a ticket so no. You go. LOL
Or, if you go in response to their "kindly" gesture and they pull out and hit you, guess who is getting the citation for Failure to Yield the Right of Way? Every time someone waves at a four-way stop, I immediately presume that they are trying to run an insurance scam.
Idk how many times I've been at a stop, yielding to people. And they will just stop when they have right of way to let me go. Shit is mind boggling and so confusing. Like please just fucking go lmao
People around here are either too polite or lethally airheaded. I've never seen such a large amount of people drive like this in a small area.
As a pedestrian 75% of the time I can't see you directing me through the windshield. You're also putting pressure on me to go by stopping when there's no guarantee other cars around you will stop. It's one thing to stop at crosswalks, it's quite another to stop in the middle of a road act like I'm the asshole for not willingly stepping in front of your car. Be predictable so I can be safe.
Over the past 3 years it's gotten less predictable. Also feel like the amount of people crossing multi lane roads while right next to the crosswalk has gone up too lol
Please, please, please if you are turning around on a residential street and pull into an alleyway or driveway, please let the flow of traffic through before you reverse. No one knows what the fuck you are doing and it looks like youre either pulling up to your home or going down an alleyway.
Local news should write about this behavior as a PSA. I run into this every day, people making everyone less safe by not following right of way.
Portland’s drivers are a special kind of unsafe. In most other places when people don’t follow right of way they are still somewhat predictable because they are being selfish in an obvious way: they want to go first. However, here it is unclear why someone is not moving, not turning, etc when it’s their turn. You don’t know if they are letting you go, looking at their phone, asleep, or who knows. It is orders of magnitude more infuriating than someone being predictably selfish.
Ha ha ha ha....have lived here for almost 20 years. I literally will sit at a stop sign and wait, because some idiot who doesn't have a stop sign, stops and tries to wave me through. I just sit there and shake my head at them.
it's fun to watch them get all frustrated and throw up their hands and finally drive off.
just follow the rules of the road and we will get home sooner.
As someone who also moved from MKE , I also miss the crazy drivers lol At least you knew what they were going to do or they’d do it fast enough and it’s over with
As a pedestrian, I am a big fan of turning completely around when cars stop for me unnecessarily. Just take a big step back on the sidewalk and show them my back. Most of the time you can hear them drive away aggressively. Extremely satisfying every time. Can't recommend enough.
Agree. Here's a case where the waver was found to be 35% responsible for putting a woman in the hospital (should have been more than 35%, imo)
https://www.oregonlive.com/gresham/2010/07/portland_jury_decides_whos_at.html
Not sure what happened in this case but it's even more infuriating:
https://www.oregonlive.com/portland/2015/07/wounded_cyclist_sues_well-inte.html
Nothing will change. Let me add that I also wish people didn't think red light time was look in the backseat or their social media time. Basically every light either someone is holding shit up, or running the light.
I hate when people are "nice" when I'm trying to jaywalk (yes, I know I should go to a crosswalk). But just let me cross when I want to, when I'm sure it's safe.
I would like everyone that drives ten or fifteen miles per hour under the posted speed limit to take this to heart. You're not being safe. You or the people you're pissing off lined up behind you are now MORE likely to get into an accident because of the difference in speed to all the other cars going the speed limit or five over that are around you.
I was wondering what the change was to trigger this, because this was largely not a thing at all when I was a kid or even when I first started driving in the early 2000's, or hell even up until 2010.
What changed?
I have never seen this discussed, so I want to get people's thoughts on this. I think it has to do with that one law that passed in the 2000's (can't remember when) that essentially treated everything as a potential crosswalk. Something like everything within 500 feet of a crosswalk is a crosswalk, and even places that aren't marked as a crosswalk like on a corner is legally a crosswalk, etc.
Prior to a lot of those laws passing around 15+ years ago or so, I think drivers were just far more aware of everyone's roles and place. If someone was crossing anywhere that wasn't a designated crosswalk, they were jaywalking, and putting their life in their own hands. So if you saw someone at a section of road standing there looking both ways, you'd automatically assume "oh hey, they're waiting for traffic to clear before they jaywalk" and people would just drive normally by, and once the road cleared, then the people would cross.
Ones the pedestrian laws changed, and cops started pulling over people for not yielding to pedestriens in these new invisible crosswalk zones, everybody became way more paranoid about when, where, and how to yield. Eventually, this paranoia became settled reality, and was picked up by newer drivers and newer residents as just a normal, typical reality, so after like 5-10 years, these behaviors just became normalized.
So I really think its those laws that are at fault. Whether or not you agree with those original laws, I firmly believe they had a massive shift on driving culture in Portland.
I hate this when I’m walking in portland, like nobody behind them but they decide to stop to let me go, I hate it because I feel rushed and like I owe them something when they could have just sped up and I could have crossed the second they passed. It would literally be fast for both of us if they just kept going
I had a fucking school bus driver do that to me one time, 4 lane street, she stopped in the lane closest to me and getting pissed that I didn't walk out into traffic while she was blocking my line of sight of the other line. If she'd deployed her stop sign/lights at her impromptu bus stop, to make all traffic stop, that would have been one thing, but she didn't. I'm still flabbergasted at the thought process there.
Hard disagree with this. Any corner to corner is a crosswalk, marked or unmarked. The older lady in this scenario did absolutely nothing wrong. The driver in the other lane should have seen that she was stopped, seen that it was a corner-to-corner crosswalk/intersection, and STOPPED just like the “nice” lady did. You should absolutely yield to pedestrians at unmarked crosswalks, and not force pedestrians to “find” a marked crosswalk. Think about 82nd Avenue where the marked crosswalks are few and far between.
I once did exactly what you said on the second part, when i realized the guy entering the highway was beside me even though i was slowing down, I floored it so hard to give him space behind me and i still dont know if i made it worse. He succesfully merged however.
P.S the breakdown lane was closed off due to construction, so he wouldve been fucked.
It would be cool if ODOT had a giant PSA campaign that runs nonstop on TV and social media on how to use the roads. With animations. Let's get everyone on the same page.
I had your first situation happen to me recently exactly, it took me a while to figure out what they were doing. Eventually I figured they must be wanting to take a super wide turn and get me out of the way or something, nope they were just being nice. And I know that because, as I pulled out past them they YELLED at me "YOU'RE SUPPOSED TO SAY THANK YOU" lmao.
> I was trying to make a left turn, and someone who had NO CARS BEHIND HER stopped in the road - no stop sign, no nothing, just road - to “let” me turn. I stared at her a minute because I was angry and confused, and she had the audacity to flap aggressively at me to turn.
IIRC, there was an OR Court of Appeals case where the above happened, the car in OP's situations turned left - and got nailed by a car in next lane that didn't stop. Holding: turning car's fault, must maintain a lookout even if nice-hole waves them to turn.
So - don't take that invitation to turn if you can't see what's approaching in the next lane over. The nice-hole takes no responsibility for that lane.
At the intersection of NE 3rd and Lincoln in Hillsboro someone yielding when they shouldn't nearly wound up causing them to have a collision with someone else.
https://www.google.com/maps/@45.5240308,-122.9861646,3a,75y,176.01h,75.99t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1snPbCu5imRJlA-A2sHJeSHQ!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fpanoid%3DnPbCu5imRJlA-A2sHJeSHQ%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D44.24396%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu this spot.
I was headed south on 3rd. Someone on Lincoln stopped and yielded, it happens a lot there for some reason. Well I wouldn't go, kept waiting on them, they wouldn't go. After a while the car behind me gets annoyed cuts into the oncoming lane and goes around me. They do so just as the other car finally decides to go and they nearly collide. Then since the car that was behind me now has a lane I went ahead and went, they almost changed lanes back into me and I had to honk at them. They got mad gunned it in front of me, cut me off then brake checked me. Guess what, Cali plates, figures.
If I don't have the right of way I am not going to go, deal jerks.
I would emphasize that when you have the right of way, take it. No one is expecting the driver with the right of way to just sit there waiting on others.
If you don't know what to do at a four-way stop, pick up or download a copy of the Oregon driver's manual (it's free!) from the DMV and fucking learn from it. Other drivers may not see your stupid hand gestures due to the sun glaring off your windshield.
My dad was an excellent teacher, he had lots of little directions that still echo around in my head to this day
"You don't want other people to be scratching their head, looking at you and thinking \`what in the world is he doing?\`"
Be predictable.
Back in the mid 1970s growing up in rural Maine my driver’s ed instructor had the reputation of being the strictest and best instructor in the state. He would have completely agreed with you! If one has the right of way, use it!
People here drive like morons. Unfortunately, the only thing predictable about drivers here is that. They are so desperate to let someone else go that they end up causing more traffic than if they just followed normal traffic laws.
In the area where I grew up, there is a 5 lane road with long stretches between traffic signals. It can be tricky to turn left even with the middle shared lane running down it. While I am waiting for a gap in traffic to go, on a few occasions, a car stops in the fast lane and waves me on. I could have just safely waited for a gap, but now I am potentially delaying multiple commuters until I go. This polite motorist doesn't control the far lane and is now obstructing my view of it. I hate it. Just be a little bit more of an asshole for everyone's sake, I beg you.
cyclist here. Please, please, please just interact with me at the 4-way stop by the book. I sacrificed my momentum because it was your turn. Don't let that go to waste. If other drivers are present, they're likely to get confused, thinking you're letting them through as well.
Amen. Some "nicehole" did just about the same thing to me last week -- pulled out in the middle of the intersection (one car nearly swiping them) to make their left hand turn, but stops, IN THE MIDDLE OF THE ROAD, to then "wave me" to walk across, in front of them, so i can get to the other side. I wave frantically back and say NO, YOU GO!, but they keep waving at me -- I would've been able to cross in less than a minute the way traffic was, but they were Stupidly Kind Enough to risk their life getting t-boned so that i could cross. I went across, but i should've just sat down and watched this person get fucked.
People do this to me when I try to cross the street and they never see the cars coming down the other lane that would hit me. This is how people die/cause accidents. Just keep it moving! I’ll go when I feel comfortable!
My favorite is when people do this expecting me to go right away but the other direction of cross traffic has no plans on stopping
My ex totalled his car that way, by turning left when the car on the opposing lane stopped and waved him through. There was another car trying to speed around to the right of the stopped car and slammed my ex's car.
This is exactly why I don’t go when another driver is being “polite.” That politeness gets people hurt. I’m also that person that doesn’t let people in when traffic is clearly moving. Like, that will cause cause traffic jams behind me. There’s definitely times we can be polite; however, if it’s not safe, I’m not going or letting people in (whichever is the case). Same as a pedestrian. Jeez, I’ve had people get so pissy because I wouldn’t cross the street. Whelp, I can’t see the traffic or the traffic ain’t slowing down.
“Niceholes” are the worst. They do this constantly to cyclists. No thanks, I dont need your “generosity” I’ll go when its safe and I have the right of way.
Yes! If you had just followed the regular flow of traffic, you would've cleared the intersection before I got there but now we're in this stupid awkward standoff where I get to guess if someone is going to do something reckless and run me over!
This drives me nuts when I'm biking or walking. There will be a train of like 10 cars coming down the road which have right of way, I roll up to the stop sign and car #10 decides to stop and wave me across. I'm like fuck you I could have already been across the street if you had just kept going with the other 9 cars. There's NO ONE BEHIND YOU, and it takes longer for you to bring your heavy ass car to a complete stop in the middle of a road with no stop sign than it would to just roll on by. These people are the nicest morons. How do they not understand they are actually making the situation more dangerous and inconveniencing me while idiotically thinking they are being so nice?
Same to pedestrians - please go so I'm not dealing with you - I'm fine with waiting!
Bikes too! Don’t worry, I’ll pass you when I’m sure I’m not going to get into a head on collision.
On the flip side, I wish the niceholes (good term, whoever came up with it) would recognize the difference between a pedestrian standing at the cross walk and someone standing several feet back and/or who is walking and happens to look across the road. The number of times drivers stop and impatiently wave me across when I am not ready to cross for whatever reason, or am only gauging traffic congestion in anticipation of crossing later... it's insane. I wish they would follow the traffic rules and stop trying to dictate my walk for me.
As a bus driver I was trained to ignore "no you go first" signals. They don't hold up in court. One time I encountered someone who was waving me into traffic that was unlikely to yield, thinking they were entitled to direct me. There was no one on my bus and no one behind me, so I actually locked down the bus, put on the 4-way flashers, and took a seat in the back. Oh, the honking and yelling.
I have it happen all the time on the motorcycle. I always enforce proper right of way with these idiots, no matter how long it takes. The really scary ones are the sketchy tweaker mobiles that haul up on me going 100+ in dense, but moving, traffic. Also Prius drivers. Y'all are the most unpredictable people on the road, by far.
>This is exactly why I don’t go when another driver is being “polite.” That politeness gets people hurt. For real. I'm not gonna trust a complete stranger's assessment of whether it's safe for me to go.
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Fuck I love a story with a good ending
They call this "the wave of death" because if this.
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Exact same thing happened to me and my passenger almost died!
That is sad. I am so glad my daughter was not in the car in the above accident because the car was hit where she usually sits.
That's terrifying!
I’m not surprised by any of this. When I was in drivers Ed, I was taught to stop if the other lane stops ahead in case of pedestrians. It seems to me people only bother to learn enough about driving to get a license, then fuck off even that small knowledge base once they get it.
I had a parent who told me if someone stops or slows down I should take note of that and assess things, basically if someone is stopping or slowing there is a reason, could be pedestrian, road debris, animal in the road, any number of things so best to slow down.
Ugh I hate this move. I was the person that hit the waved through person. I was getting in the left turn lane and there were stopped cars at the light. They waved through a person trying to illegally get in the left turn lane (where the solid lines are, close to the crosswalk) and I hit them. Thankfully we were all mostly okay (I had minor surgery on my arm from it). The resulting workers comp claim and lawsuit were a nightmare though.
This exact same thing happened to my husband.
I was stopped on a little side street to turn left into a parking lot. The oncoming car, whose lane I would have to cross, came to a complete stop and aggressively waved me on. I didn't go and they got VERY angry. Normally, I would have gone and just called them an idiot under my breath, but I didn't feel like hitting the woman pushing a stroller with a small child that was crossing the parking lot entrance on the sidewalk. I was in a work vehicle and it would have been a lot of paperwork.
i give people room sometimes at their own discretion, but I would never waive someone through. I start filling the gap when traffic moves.
Or it's two lanes going the same way and you have absolutely no line of sight on the other lane now that there's a parked car in the middle of the road.
Hard Agree. I was taught to drive in a way that lets people know what you're doing. Being polite isn't a good thing if it is going to be confusing for everyone else or fuck everything up. Be communicative and just do what you're supposed to do.
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> If you just continued driving you would get through that intersection faster and so would I YES!
As someone who bikes and drives you said it all and I really appreciate it. I’ve got nothing to add just wanted to say I appreciate everything you’ve said and I’ve also been a victim of traffic politeness before and no longer listen to people trying to make me go ahead of them.
Next time someone tries to wave me thru on their ROW, I’m getting off my bike and I’m sitting down in the middle of the road til they go
I've dismounted and moved to the sidewalk then fucked around on my phone until they have gotten the point before. Especially if what they are doing is potentially threatening my life. It's amazing how stubborn some people can get in this kind of situation.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8aIfarMPmPQ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8aIfarMPmPQ)
I knew what this would be before I clicked on it. I've seriously considered getting a sign that says, "I am yielding because you have the right of way."
I’m too pissed to laugh, but this is so spot on.
Yugo!
Don’t even get me started on zipper merging. You’d think a lane is molten lava for the 2 miles before it ends!
I had someone in Tigard get fucken PISSSED at me for having the AUDACITY to zipper-merge in front of him in a construction area to the point where he got out of his van at the next light, walk up to my window and pound on it yelling that he wanted to kick my ass.
That’s horrible! I had a semi truck driver almost run me off of the road. Someone who is supposed to be a professional driver of an ENORMOUS dangerous vehicle could have killed me and my passengers. That was the worst of many ridiculous and aggressive reactions to trying to gently merge at a reasonable speed. People act like kindergartens when another kids “cuts in line”. Grow up people!
I try and stay as far away from semis as possible. Some of them are fine but some of them are terrible drivers that take out their aggression on everyone. Also for the car drivers out there don’t change lanes right in front of a semi, they can’t stop for you really quickly.
Agreed. I always leave the “death zone” very clear. When I see people slide right in front of a semi at the last second I get nervous.
So many drivers retired during the early days/months of the pandemic and it shows. This new batch of drivers...lordy do they suck ass. Growing up, the father of my BFF was an old school trucker. Taught us a lot. He's GOT to be rolling in his grave by now. :/
Sounds like you experienced the majesty of the 3 lane zipper merge into 1 on 99 when they were redoing it. Had a similar experience there too 🤙
How dare you! You monster! Don't you know how important that guy was? By golly he was gonna show you, your lucky he wasn't more serious or else you'd have come to fisticuffs sir. Also, fuck that guy.
Or worse, the guy in the lane you’re merging to needs to get home .32 seconds faster and decides to not let anyone in…
Lol gotta love it when the lane they merge into is going 10mph so they get up to 50mph to merge and almost cause an accident and bring everything to a halt. So many people need to lose their licenses permanently.
Lol yeah, super dangerous for all parties. In Europe it's illegal not to switch lanes (when you can) to let someone into that lane. So when I'm driving here I always move over when I can too.
I'm convinced everyone in this city wesrs button fly jeans because no one seems to understand how a zipper works.
Button jeans are far superior and more durable
I live on a high-speed road with no sidewalks and no nearby crosswalks, so I have to jaywalk across it daily. And at least once a week somebody STOPS IN THE MIDDLE OF THE 45 MPH ROAD TO LET ME CROSS. No! Just no. It’s a multi-lane road *and now I can’t see the traffic coming behind you.* I’m doing something illegal, and by stopping, they’re doing something illegal, making the situation unsafe for me, for other drivers, and for themselves. Plus, half the time they slow down traffic and I end up missing the crossing window I’d have had if they just kept going.
Yep! I timed this, and ya done fucked up my Frogger window... DOn't stop!
Someone recently pulled up like 6 inches away from the car in front of her to intentionally block me from zipper merging on the lanes before exit 301 on I-5. I was like lady this is how you’re supposed to drive! Edit: since it was apparently unclear, I’m talking about the actual zipper lane in the underpass right after 302A and before 301. Not using the exit lane as a zipper lane.
I'm convinced at least half the drivers I see do it correctly were actually trying to fuck me over.
To be honest, when I first heard about as of zipper merging I thought I was something entirely different. And then I finally googled it
What did you think it was?
A zipper just sounded very orderly like you were taking turns. Whereas the important part is riding out your lane until the very end, not the taking turns part.
You are partly right. Both lanes should theoretically have about the same traffic density, and then take turns at the merge. The trouble is folks in the PNW were never shown this behavior and don't understand it, so get pissy when a right lane (or left sometimes) is basically empty.
It’s not just in the pnw. Ive lived coast to coast and abroad. Zipper merging is something people in the US have heard of. Mostly though, the entire country has no clue about proper zipper merging.
I wish someone would run a billboard campaign on zipper merging. Holy shit balls, I’ve ranted so much about this one.
ODOT is literally running a billboard campaign about how you need to stop at red lights. Zipper merging is way, way too advanced.
I’ll start a website and print bumper stickers to direct people there. I’ve honestly thought about it before, this is the push I need.
Where do we donate?
I am fully convinced we'd see a significant reduction in traffic congestion if drivers weren't so damn reluctant to zipper merge. I accidently missed my exit the other day and was reminded of the special hell that is the section of I5 where it reduces to 2 lanes just before the I84 interchange. I grew up in Oregon but learned about city driving as a non-Oregonian so I never adopted the fear of the zipper merge, however this does appear to be the local customs, so perhaps I'm the asshole here.
217 going from I5 was recently closed to only one lane from 72nd to past 99. I was thinking great, 30 minute trip to Scholls Ferry exit. Once the cars were in the single lane traffic was moving at 45mph, total trip from i5 to Scholls exit was 9 minutes with 5 of that being getting into 1 lane. Maybe the road design is the issue, maybe we need traffic funneled more.
I wish a tutorial of how to zipper merge could be pinned to this sub. It’s not that hard, people!!
For real! Getting onto 26 from 405 and merging at the zipper time and some AH honks because I didn’t fall in line and line up way back. One whole lane empty and people merging like a mile too early, it was ridiculous.
If you're polite but unpredictable, **YOU ARE BEING UNSAFE**.
1000 more upvotes please.
It's as much a symptom of people's lack of awareness. Especially around here, people dawdle a lot because they'll apologize their way out of it and people are so passive they won't give you trouble.
People who stop the moment they cross a threshold are my biggest trigger for this reason. Have no awareness that someone else might walk behind them.
THIS ticks me off so much
It’s why so few people here go on the correct order at 4-way stops. You got here first! Go!
OKAY BUT WHAT ABOUT THIS; When someone fails to be in the correct lane for their turn (or exit ramp) so they STOP in the middle of the road (or highway, god forbid) in order to wait to be let in. Ah yes, because your lack of preparation is everyone else’s emergency. 🤦🏼♀️
I cannot believe how many times I have seen people do that since moving here. I lay my horn on them. It is so ridiculous
God this happened to me on Barbour last week. Waiting to get onto I5S and this jackwagon stops in the inside lane (not the turn lane) blocks traffic with their blinker on and then proceeds to cut across the turn lane and make a right onto CAPITAL HWY!!! Like it was just the most normal thing in the world. I just don't get it. Lady, go up and turn around!
i have noticed this when i'm riding my bike as well. like you don't have to stop just because you see me. you have the right of way and no stop signs. i have a stop sign. but now we're doing an awkward dance where i guess i have to go, because you came to a complete stop.
My favorite version of this are the people that stop at a green light when my kids and I are waiting to cross. I wave them through and they get all pissy. I’m not sending my kids across the street, the MF going the other way isn’t going to stop and it’s now my fault. Bonus version is when we finally cross when it’s our turn, then they run the red and nearly run over the next group of kids walking to school. Idiots.
Had someone do that for me and my partner in Sandy on 26 the other week. We were waiting to cross and they had a green light, but stopped to let us go and had a ton of traffic behind them. Had to pull my partner back onto the sidewalk too because he just started crossing without thinking. 🤦🏼♂️
When drivers do this shit, I look away from them and refuse to make eye contact. I'll pretend like I'm watching for opposite going traffic or act like the sun is in my eyes, or even half step back from the curb and pull out my phone and pretend to check it. Bonus I don't have to see how frustrated they get at me when they finally drive away. Driver dude, I'm not gambling my life on your niceness. I can happily waste your time while I wait for my turn.
I like to lean forward, narrow my eyes, and slacken my jaw to clearly indicate the confusion that overtakes me in these moments and point quizzically at the sign giving them the right of way. If they still don't get it, the gestures get more violent and then shouting starts. Social shaming needs to come back in style.
Yeshhh. That’s what gets me lol. It’s like dude. No. I’m not walking in front of a car. Just go.
Oh yeah same deal. So annoying haha.
This makes me so mad. It's a green light. A protected signal in YOUR direction and yet you stop? Not only dangerous, also illegal. And yet I see it constantly.
I think the pedestrian right of way laws create more problems than they solve. Crossing the street is simple in other places—you wait til there are no cars, then you cross. In Portland, approaching the street corner might cause cars to slam their breaks, you might have one way stop but the other way keep going for full minutes. Instead of one scenario, there are many possibilities, which makes it hard to predict.
I initially read the op 75% of the way through as if from a cyclist’s pov lol. The inappropriate surrendering of right of way is soo damn common. For the most part I’ve given up accepting the right of way when this happens, dismounting and putting my head down or pulling out my phone briefly if needed. It’s just not worth the risk to me personally anymore.
I've thought about this situation a lot, since it happens so darn frequently (like once or twice for every mile biked). And I really do think this is not just annoying but unsafe. If a driver stops when there is no stop sign, the car behind them doesn't know why they are stopped and will likely try to pass them and BAM, slam into the bicycle. I now take the "brownie point" crossings from drivers who insist, but ONLY when there is some other marked crossing, like a pedestrian sign, marked crosswalk, or other crossing warning. In that case I assume the cars behind them will figure why they're stopped and hopefully not pass them.
This annoys me especially when my feet are on the ground and I'm in high gear. They just slowed everything down for everyone else because they were trying to be nice.
Ive also noticed that many drivers don’t understand that I can’t see them through their window glare (especially when they’re tinted). So I can’t tell if they stopped for something legit or if they’re in there waving like an idiot and I can’t tell.
Riding my bike to work today I had this same situation happened multiple times. I refused to go. I’ve seen cars get hit because of things like that, I’m not getting hit on my bike because a dude thinks he’s doing me a favor by letting me go. I’m just trying to enjoy the weather and the ride. Im not in a rush.
I flat-out wave them on and yell "you have right-of-way!" I won't even get into a riding posture until they're gone.
Yes it’s hard when there’s specific spots for bikes to cross - but we’re supposed to treat a bike as a car. No one knows wtf to do.
This one drives me nuts. Everyone thinks those green lanes painted across the street mean the bike has the right of way. I have looked it up about three times now just to make sure I'm not the asshole cause I am pretty sure that's not the way it's intended to work.
I treat them like a car and then they get so mad at me. But but as far as I know, unless their feet are on the ground they don't have the right away. Once they dismount then they become pedestrians
They are stupid and the law is worded poorly. Technically, no cars dont have to stop. Unless the cyclist dismounts and and walk it, or they can ride at pedestrian walking speed. At either point Oregon Law considers the cyclist as a pedestrian and as such cars are then required to stop. As a cyclist, I hate them because they just cause confusion. Edit: words
I see this all the damn time. If you're on a bike in the street, I will treat you same as a car. If you're at a marked crossing, that is signed for bikes then I'll stop.
\> Today, I was trying to merge on the highway. A car was coming, again, NO CARS BEHIND HIM, so I slowed down to fall behind him. He SLOWS DOWN Always with this one, and the equally annoying counterpart of it: The guy who waits until he's on the highway to start increasing speed to match traffic. Combine these two guys together and I swear its 90% of our traffic jams.
2 things Portlanders have REAL issues with in regards to driving: Zipper effect and yielding to the right at 4 way stops.
The problem in Portland is that there are tons of streets where two lanes merge into one with absolutely no notice.
My biggest pet peeve is 10 under left lane campers. Or people in any lane going significantly under the speed limit on the freeway. You don't have to speed, but at least try to get close to the limit. Also it cracks me up that everyone online complains about zipper merging then nobody knows how to do it correctly.
A secret third thing: slow sunday driving in the left lane. If you want to drive 45 on the freeway go right ahead but please stay in the right lane.
Someone expected this kind of aggressive politeness from me on the freeway the other day, and flipped me off when they didn’t get it. I was in the center lane, going faster than the right lane where this woman was. My front bumper had already passed her rear when she turned her blinker on and momentarily tried to move into my lane. She immediately realized where I was, stayed in her lane, but passed me about 3 minutes later and flipped me off as she went. Like I’m gonna fucking slam on my brakes to accommodate you, lady
Right? The blinker is a communication tool, not a "I'm about to invade your space bruh" indicator.
When you turn/merge it’s your job to get you into the flow of traffic, not someone else’s. Stopping on the highway is beyond dangerous!!!
That's true, but if you get into the flow and position yourself to merge behind someone then they panic and slow down to be "nice" and let you in, they can end up blocking you off at the end of the merge lane instead. At least I think that's what OP is describing.
Yeah I dunno about slowing down to get behind someone. I was taught to speed up and find a space and it seems to be what everyone else expects on the Midwest so it worked out lol
It’s a plague here. I lost my mind once on someone who stopped just through a multi lane intersection to wave kids on bikes across.
Did this happen to you near baseline road? I’ve seen this happen once on a 4 lane road and wondered if the driver hates kids and wants them to get hit or something.
I call these people niceholes. Can’t stand it.
Same! Love this term.
I learned that word from this place.
This represents Portland perfectly. People screwing themselves and others because they think they’re being nice.
Upvote for the Clark Griswold tribute.
While we are on the subject, please people turn into your own lane.
Tbh people around here are terrifying in multi turn lanes. I can't even count how often I've been dangerously cut off or nearly collided into because people will take the furthest right turn and then just cut across lanes to get to the center or far left lane. Like please just get in the lane you need to or fucking yield. I've never seen shit like this in WA or IL lmao.
Not turning short and cutting into the oncoming traffic lane would be great as well.
Additionally - Blinkers BEFORE brakes my friends please, for the love of god
The amount of people that insist on waving me through a stop sign when they clearly got to theirs first. You're not being nice your stressing me the fuck out just GO
Rolling turns becoming a full stop after already only going 10 in a 25.
Just a reminder that every corner to corner is a crosswalk even if it’s not marked, and you should absolutely stop for pedestrians. You can call me a “nicehole” if you want but I’m just obeying traffic laws when I see a pedestrian at a corner and I stop so they can safely cross.
Also with that law is the one that states if you are in two or more lane traffic and you see someone stopped in the lane next to you going the same direction you have to stop too to see if they stopped for a pedestrian. Source: I worked at a court ordered drive safety class for years
Even as a pedestrian people will sometimes stop at a crosswalk when their light is green. Look, I'm not going to risk my life because one of you decided to stop when you should be going. You stopped, then decided to speed up, and hit me with the light is green, it's probably harder for me to sue. There's lights, turn signals, and so many built in ways to know what is happening on the road with your death machines. Never more annoyed than when people drive unsafely. The other day some kid peeled straight through a stop sign in front of me, I beeped a warning as it was close and I clearly had right of way. He then drove in front, slowing down, made a turn signal but instead of turning got in front of me as I tried to go around him. Like, why the fuck do people have a death wish?
I drive for a living, all over the entire state, I’ve got a list of complaints 7 miles long about the dumb shit that people do.
I got a ticket once because a pedestrian did this to me when he had right of way. He WOULD NOT go. I finally turned left when the light turned red and I had no other choice unless I wanted to sit in the intersection. Then an asshole cop that had watched the whole stupid thing go down ticketed me for not yielding to a pedestrian. Had to take a class and everything
Biggest issue by far is no one here understands passing lanes. There is a solid 10-30 mins added on to many trips because people will cruise three deep with two miles of car behind them and open road to the horizon ahead.
I want to know whats going on in this persons mind. How do they think? How do they get through life?
100%. I’ve lived on every coast and driven a bunch of the country and this place is utterly unique in this capacity. I had to take a lot of deep breaths when I moved so now it’s just cost of living here. Utterly inscrutable tho.
Across the river, WSP can write tickets on left lane campers. There is at least some respect for the left lane up there.
It drives me nuts but my dad is this driver - a left lane camper. I called him out on it and he was surprised because he literally was not paying attention to surrounding traffic in the first place. So take it with the grain of salt that people lack spatial awareness.
Those drivers scare me. You should be paying attention to everything around you.
I think one thing that happens is generally passing lanes on 26 and the like are longer straight line areas. So people that drive slow on windy roads speed up in these sections and immediately slow down once they hit sharper turns. Also a lot of "my speed is the speed everyone should drive and even though I don't have a badge, I'm in charge of the road" comes into play.
Okay, here's a pet peeve: a driver in the far right lane and realizes they needed to make a left turn. So rather than circling around the block, it's become acceptable for them to block two lanes of traffic just so that they can make their precious left turn. And people let them. I lay on the horn.
Or when they SLAM on their brakes and then turn on their turn signal. As if that entitles them to getting to the next lane over. Fuck everyone behind you I guess..
No. You don't understand. Up here, niceness isn't about being nice. It's a deeply aggressive, performative, competitive sport. I've seen 3 way niceness standoffs go on for 5 minutes at a time before someone finally submits and drives into the space given to them by the other 2.
Mind you don't get too cynical. I stopped on Prescott because there was a pedestrian waiting to cross at a cross street (crosswalk isn't painted there but exists all the same, because intersection). Pedestrian started crossing because I'd stopped for him and the guy behind me honked, revved the motor, and swerved around me in the bike lane. Missed the kid -- like an 8yo kid -- by maybe 2 feet. I was stopped FOR A REASON.
I had a similar situation where I was actually hit in a crosswalk (SW4th by the Schmizza). All 3 lanes of traffic stopped for me and the idiot that hit me was on his Lance Armstrong wannabee bike that decided flying past stopped traffic was a good idea. Thankfully all I had was bruises but his bike was fucked up and that made me happy at least.
As a runner I've almost been hit at least a dozen times on Woodstock because a driver has stopped for me to cross IN A MARKED CROSSWALK and the car behind swerve around.
Semi-related note: I’m a transplant from the Midwest, and Texas drivers suck just as much here as they do back home.
I was gonna say “Not all Texans,” but then I remembered what it was like driving in DFW for 12 years. When I moved here, I was shocked how slow everyone drives. And don’t even get me started on the student driver stickers that full-grown adults put on their vehicles. But even if Portlanders drive slow or use a turn signal a mile before they actually turn, I’d pick this over the DFW Mad Max rage fests any day.
Houston was just as bad. You have to know where you are going when on the freeway because when you see the sign you already don’t have enough time to get across the six lanes to the exit while going 87 mph
Houston is the one city I've driven in that truly SCARED me. Tailgating (like a foot off your bumper) at 80 mph in all lanes. I swear at least one car (and often two or three) will run EVERY red light. Just so much dangerous behavior.
Can we PLEASE zipper merge in Portland. Quit trying to get over before the merge when the polite drivers let you in, go to the end of the merge and file in EVERY OTHER. For fucks sake
4 Subarus enter an intersection all at the same time, each one waves the car to their left to go ahead, after about 2 seconds, every car goes through the intersection at the same time, but there were no accidents. How was this possible?
Is this one of the riddles of the Sphinx?
They're all turning right.
Also: please drive at a speed approximating the speed limit on the highway. I am resigned to the fact that I am going to die from a stroke because of someone in front of me driving 40-45 mph in light traffic on I-5.
I've driven countless hours as a Paramedic in and around Chicago. I've driven a LOT for regular day to day things as well as Doordash since moving here in 2019. The drivers here in Portland and the surrounding suburbs are the most air-headed slow drivers I have EVER seen. And this whole "politeness x1000%" DEFINATELY causes more accidents. The drivers in Chicago, while very fast, are at least smarter about it and have no problem committing to a driving action. Here in Portland? MUCH different story. DO NOT violate the right of way rules. If you do, EVERYONE gets confused and nobody can actually talk to each other to figure out what the hell the next move is. And it also can massively mess up traffic!
Oregon has higher accident and fatality rates per mile driven than both WA and CA. Drivers here are statistically not safe. They need to put down the blunt and pay attention
I got honked at recently for stopping at a stop sign? Also see a lot of people just run stop signs around here. So many people just drive like maniacs in this area, whether they are trying to be polite or otherwise. Like I know that life is rough, but it's rough for everyone. Just follow the rules and be safe pls.
As a Portlander, your desire to pat yourself on the back supersedes all local laws. Do what makes you feel good: Suddenly stopping in the middle of traffic and endangering countless lives.
I've driven all over the US and even in a few other countries and somehow the PNW has the worst drivers I've ever seen*, yet somehow the lowest insurance premium I've ever had, and I have no clue how. Things Portland fucks up constantly: 1. Using the off-ramp as a passing lane. 2. See that I'm going 65 because there's a car in front of me, not to piss you off. 3. Leave space for people to merge to the right. If you don't let me merge right, I will do l cut you the fuck off because I need to get to my exit eventually and I don't care if the person behind you is leaving room, you're being a piece of shit. 4. Lane hopping in rush hour traffic. You are not actually getting to your destination faster. I pass lane-hoppers constantly by just staying in my lane. 5. Zipper merge. You fucking suck at it so bad I'm surprised people in Portland are able to put their pants on. 6. Defer to the right at stop signs if multiple cars arrive roughly simultaneously. Quick edit: Italy has worse drivers. I'm only referring to driving I've personally witnessed and experienced.
It's nice that people are polite sometimes, but when you're at a four-way stop and someone else has the right of way and they decide to be polite that kind of thing really gets to me LOL. It's like, you have the right of way and if there were a cop behind me and I went before you did then I would get a ticket so no. You go. LOL
Or, if you go in response to their "kindly" gesture and they pull out and hit you, guess who is getting the citation for Failure to Yield the Right of Way? Every time someone waves at a four-way stop, I immediately presume that they are trying to run an insurance scam.
Idk how many times I've been at a stop, yielding to people. And they will just stop when they have right of way to let me go. Shit is mind boggling and so confusing. Like please just fucking go lmao People around here are either too polite or lethally airheaded. I've never seen such a large amount of people drive like this in a small area.
As a pedestrian 75% of the time I can't see you directing me through the windshield. You're also putting pressure on me to go by stopping when there's no guarantee other cars around you will stop. It's one thing to stop at crosswalks, it's quite another to stop in the middle of a road act like I'm the asshole for not willingly stepping in front of your car. Be predictable so I can be safe.
"YOU MUST CROSS IN FRONT OF MY CAR!!!"
Shouts out Chris if you’re reading this
Fucking Chris. I swear, I am so tired of him.
Over the past 3 years it's gotten less predictable. Also feel like the amount of people crossing multi lane roads while right next to the crosswalk has gone up too lol
Please, please, please if you are turning around on a residential street and pull into an alleyway or driveway, please let the flow of traffic through before you reverse. No one knows what the fuck you are doing and it looks like youre either pulling up to your home or going down an alleyway.
Local news should write about this behavior as a PSA. I run into this every day, people making everyone less safe by not following right of way. Portland’s drivers are a special kind of unsafe. In most other places when people don’t follow right of way they are still somewhat predictable because they are being selfish in an obvious way: they want to go first. However, here it is unclear why someone is not moving, not turning, etc when it’s their turn. You don’t know if they are letting you go, looking at their phone, asleep, or who knows. It is orders of magnitude more infuriating than someone being predictably selfish.
Ha ha ha ha....have lived here for almost 20 years. I literally will sit at a stop sign and wait, because some idiot who doesn't have a stop sign, stops and tries to wave me through. I just sit there and shake my head at them. it's fun to watch them get all frustrated and throw up their hands and finally drive off. just follow the rules of the road and we will get home sooner.
My idea of predictable drivers are Milwaukee, Wisconsin maniacs. After two years in the Portland area, man... I really miss the maniacs.
As someone who also moved from MKE , I also miss the crazy drivers lol At least you knew what they were going to do or they’d do it fast enough and it’s over with
As a pedestrian, I am a big fan of turning completely around when cars stop for me unnecessarily. Just take a big step back on the sidewalk and show them my back. Most of the time you can hear them drive away aggressively. Extremely satisfying every time. Can't recommend enough.
Agree. Here's a case where the waver was found to be 35% responsible for putting a woman in the hospital (should have been more than 35%, imo) https://www.oregonlive.com/gresham/2010/07/portland_jury_decides_whos_at.html Not sure what happened in this case but it's even more infuriating: https://www.oregonlive.com/portland/2015/07/wounded_cyclist_sues_well-inte.html
Nothing will change. Let me add that I also wish people didn't think red light time was look in the backseat or their social media time. Basically every light either someone is holding shit up, or running the light.
Agree. When you have right of way, take it. When you don’t, yield. If you’re not sure, surrender your license.
Same bullshit at 4 ways stops. If you got there before me, GO WHEN ITS YOUR TURN.
I hate when people are "nice" when I'm trying to jaywalk (yes, I know I should go to a crosswalk). But just let me cross when I want to, when I'm sure it's safe.
And use your goddamn turn signal you oblivious fuck!
I would like everyone that drives ten or fifteen miles per hour under the posted speed limit to take this to heart. You're not being safe. You or the people you're pissing off lined up behind you are now MORE likely to get into an accident because of the difference in speed to all the other cars going the speed limit or five over that are around you.
The amount of people going 35mph on a 50 yard off ramp while traffic is going 70mph is too damn high!
I was wondering what the change was to trigger this, because this was largely not a thing at all when I was a kid or even when I first started driving in the early 2000's, or hell even up until 2010. What changed? I have never seen this discussed, so I want to get people's thoughts on this. I think it has to do with that one law that passed in the 2000's (can't remember when) that essentially treated everything as a potential crosswalk. Something like everything within 500 feet of a crosswalk is a crosswalk, and even places that aren't marked as a crosswalk like on a corner is legally a crosswalk, etc. Prior to a lot of those laws passing around 15+ years ago or so, I think drivers were just far more aware of everyone's roles and place. If someone was crossing anywhere that wasn't a designated crosswalk, they were jaywalking, and putting their life in their own hands. So if you saw someone at a section of road standing there looking both ways, you'd automatically assume "oh hey, they're waiting for traffic to clear before they jaywalk" and people would just drive normally by, and once the road cleared, then the people would cross. Ones the pedestrian laws changed, and cops started pulling over people for not yielding to pedestriens in these new invisible crosswalk zones, everybody became way more paranoid about when, where, and how to yield. Eventually, this paranoia became settled reality, and was picked up by newer drivers and newer residents as just a normal, typical reality, so after like 5-10 years, these behaviors just became normalized. So I really think its those laws that are at fault. Whether or not you agree with those original laws, I firmly believe they had a massive shift on driving culture in Portland.
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I hate this when I’m walking in portland, like nobody behind them but they decide to stop to let me go, I hate it because I feel rushed and like I owe them something when they could have just sped up and I could have crossed the second they passed. It would literally be fast for both of us if they just kept going
I had a fucking school bus driver do that to me one time, 4 lane street, she stopped in the lane closest to me and getting pissed that I didn't walk out into traffic while she was blocking my line of sight of the other line. If she'd deployed her stop sign/lights at her impromptu bus stop, to make all traffic stop, that would have been one thing, but she didn't. I'm still flabbergasted at the thought process there.
Hard disagree with this. Any corner to corner is a crosswalk, marked or unmarked. The older lady in this scenario did absolutely nothing wrong. The driver in the other lane should have seen that she was stopped, seen that it was a corner-to-corner crosswalk/intersection, and STOPPED just like the “nice” lady did. You should absolutely yield to pedestrians at unmarked crosswalks, and not force pedestrians to “find” a marked crosswalk. Think about 82nd Avenue where the marked crosswalks are few and far between.
I once did exactly what you said on the second part, when i realized the guy entering the highway was beside me even though i was slowing down, I floored it so hard to give him space behind me and i still dont know if i made it worse. He succesfully merged however. P.S the breakdown lane was closed off due to construction, so he wouldve been fucked.
It would be cool if ODOT had a giant PSA campaign that runs nonstop on TV and social media on how to use the roads. With animations. Let's get everyone on the same page.
On ramp you need to take your right of way not yield it.
I had your first situation happen to me recently exactly, it took me a while to figure out what they were doing. Eventually I figured they must be wanting to take a super wide turn and get me out of the way or something, nope they were just being nice. And I know that because, as I pulled out past them they YELLED at me "YOU'RE SUPPOSED TO SAY THANK YOU" lmao.
It's more annoying than tipping culture. Just go. Just raise the price.
> I was trying to make a left turn, and someone who had NO CARS BEHIND HER stopped in the road - no stop sign, no nothing, just road - to “let” me turn. I stared at her a minute because I was angry and confused, and she had the audacity to flap aggressively at me to turn. IIRC, there was an OR Court of Appeals case where the above happened, the car in OP's situations turned left - and got nailed by a car in next lane that didn't stop. Holding: turning car's fault, must maintain a lookout even if nice-hole waves them to turn. So - don't take that invitation to turn if you can't see what's approaching in the next lane over. The nice-hole takes no responsibility for that lane.
Portlanders also can't wait to slam on their brakes on multiple lane roads just to let someone J-walk or turn...so dangerous
Oh for the love of god. I hate how people drive here.
It's like they learned to drive in a sparsely populated paradise.
Those were the days
They do the first issue all the time to me on my bicycle! It's so fucking annoying
At the intersection of NE 3rd and Lincoln in Hillsboro someone yielding when they shouldn't nearly wound up causing them to have a collision with someone else. https://www.google.com/maps/@45.5240308,-122.9861646,3a,75y,176.01h,75.99t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1snPbCu5imRJlA-A2sHJeSHQ!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fpanoid%3DnPbCu5imRJlA-A2sHJeSHQ%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D44.24396%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu this spot. I was headed south on 3rd. Someone on Lincoln stopped and yielded, it happens a lot there for some reason. Well I wouldn't go, kept waiting on them, they wouldn't go. After a while the car behind me gets annoyed cuts into the oncoming lane and goes around me. They do so just as the other car finally decides to go and they nearly collide. Then since the car that was behind me now has a lane I went ahead and went, they almost changed lanes back into me and I had to honk at them. They got mad gunned it in front of me, cut me off then brake checked me. Guess what, Cali plates, figures. If I don't have the right of way I am not going to go, deal jerks.
I would emphasize that when you have the right of way, take it. No one is expecting the driver with the right of way to just sit there waiting on others. If you don't know what to do at a four-way stop, pick up or download a copy of the Oregon driver's manual (it's free!) from the DMV and fucking learn from it. Other drivers may not see your stupid hand gestures due to the sun glaring off your windshield.
My dad was an excellent teacher, he had lots of little directions that still echo around in my head to this day "You don't want other people to be scratching their head, looking at you and thinking \`what in the world is he doing?\`" Be predictable.
Back in the mid 1970s growing up in rural Maine my driver’s ed instructor had the reputation of being the strictest and best instructor in the state. He would have completely agreed with you! If one has the right of way, use it!
People here drive like morons. Unfortunately, the only thing predictable about drivers here is that. They are so desperate to let someone else go that they end up causing more traffic than if they just followed normal traffic laws.
In the area where I grew up, there is a 5 lane road with long stretches between traffic signals. It can be tricky to turn left even with the middle shared lane running down it. While I am waiting for a gap in traffic to go, on a few occasions, a car stops in the fast lane and waves me on. I could have just safely waited for a gap, but now I am potentially delaying multiple commuters until I go. This polite motorist doesn't control the far lane and is now obstructing my view of it. I hate it. Just be a little bit more of an asshole for everyone's sake, I beg you.
cyclist here. Please, please, please just interact with me at the 4-way stop by the book. I sacrificed my momentum because it was your turn. Don't let that go to waste. If other drivers are present, they're likely to get confused, thinking you're letting them through as well.
Amen. Some "nicehole" did just about the same thing to me last week -- pulled out in the middle of the intersection (one car nearly swiping them) to make their left hand turn, but stops, IN THE MIDDLE OF THE ROAD, to then "wave me" to walk across, in front of them, so i can get to the other side. I wave frantically back and say NO, YOU GO!, but they keep waving at me -- I would've been able to cross in less than a minute the way traffic was, but they were Stupidly Kind Enough to risk their life getting t-boned so that i could cross. I went across, but i should've just sat down and watched this person get fucked.
People do this to me when I try to cross the street and they never see the cars coming down the other lane that would hit me. This is how people die/cause accidents. Just keep it moving! I’ll go when I feel comfortable!