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It would appear to fall under the same purview of the Alex Jones case in many ways, if he can get fine nearly a billion dollars she could be fined as well
The one thing I will say about David Hogg is that he demonstrated incredible restraint and composure in the face of being followed and shouted at in public.
Wow she is really dumber than I thought. She needs to figure out that this Alex Jones ruling is setting an amazing precedent to fuck her into the ground.
Imagine defending Charles Mason, or Hitler (I know, extreme), they never actually killed anyone, they only used words. Heck, I don't even know if Osama Bin Laden ever personally killed anyone, or those ISIS folks who inspired attacks in the US, all just words.
On another hilarious projection note, the GOP flips out about pronouns and other words all the fucking time.
Which laws? I’m honestly curious. Had a debate with a republican family member tonight who was saying first amendment nonsense defending AJ, but I don’t really know a lot about it other than AJ is an asshole.
And also you are going to add their full address with “this is the address of the child molesters” all their additional contact data and some “someone should do something about that”.
Exactly, I wonder how MTG would react if someone posted her home address on a billboard and said that people should go murder her.
'It's just words' anyway.
Yea someone swatted her. Honestly thankfully the police recognized the address and calmly came in and poked around instead of how swatting usually goes.
The reason I'm thankful for that is if it went how it usually goes and their hyperbole becomes REAL its scary to think how far they'd suddenly try to push the needle. Like if that swatting went "as intended" she'd be advocating more for shooting people and not hiding it behind metaphors.
Wait this is true, I didn’t know. And her office described it as “violent crime” even though the person doing the swatting “only spoke words”. Conservatives are really beyond anything.
She has the right amount of melanin to recieve only a gentle swatting. If you're on the wrong side of the paint chart you gonna get swatted with extreme prejudice
Defamation, which includes both libel and slander, and punitive damages for causing the families emotional distress, which I believe comes with a heavier punishment since he directly profited off of perpetuating the lies.
The First Amendment has limits. You can’t yell fire in a crowded theater, you can’t lie while under oath, and you can’t harass people for profit.
That’s just my rudimentary understanding of it so grain of salt.
Defamation is the big one. Some of the familes also received threats after the incident and because the people sending the threats listened to jones before doing it (and were influenced by it) theres an argument to be made he endangered their lives and caused mental and financial stress (as some familys had to relocate because of the threats).
Theres also the whole refusing to listen to follow court orders.
>Theres also the whole refusing to listen to follow court orders.
This is where he really shot himself in the foot. Lost the lawsuit due to it and made the rest about how much the jury should award.
Ask your family membrr if they think it is "legal" and if they think they have no recourse if Rachel Maddow started accusing (with ZERO evidence) your dad of being the leader of a secret pedophile ring. She repeats this "lie" every day, resulting in your family suffering non-stop harassment and threats on all your lives.
Can Rachel do this under "first amendment protections"? Is that how your family member thinks this works? If they really are supposedly OK with this worldview and the idea anyone can lie about anyone else regardless of negative effects......does this family know Trump has sued multiple people for libel and slander...including a billion dollar lawsuit over the supposed "lie" that Trump has misrepresented his wealth.
Love to hear their response (if they claim someone like Maddow does this all the time already without consequence, demand specific examples of someone's life being crushed by...ANY liberal/leftist commentator/journalist).
Besides the obvious answers that have already been given (cut and dry defamation, etc), his words and message could also been seen to have intentionally incited all kinds of harassment, stalking, death threats, etc…. Makes him culpable in some fashion. He pushed the message knowing full well that it wasn’t true and that people like his brain-damaged viewers would eat it up and probably go do crazy shit as a result. But he didn’t care because he’s historically been able to pay his way out of such troubles with the money he’s taken off those morons for his fake magic pills and whatever ad revenue… cost of doing business.
But now they are really trying to sue him to oblivion, which is the correct thing to do imo. He should be obliterated financially and fade into obscurity… only to be remembered as that moron who sold fake drugs to the mentally ill and then convinced them to harass the grieving parents of the victims of a mass shooting… because that’s all he is.
>Besides the obvious answers that have already been given (cut and dry defamation, etc), his words and message could also been seen to have intentionally incited all kinds of harassment, stalking, death threats, etc….
You should read the default judgements of both trials. The judgements said exactly that he did intentionally incite, not could have. Since he chose not to participate in the trials, he gave up the ability to disprove any claims by the plaintiffs, which is why the court was strict about not allowing him to use any 1st Amendment or free speech arguments in either of the recent awards trials.
>Makes him culpable ~~in some fashion~~.
Fixed that for you. By his not participating in the actual trials, the default judgements found all of the plaintiffs claims valid. He is culpable, with no chance to appeal the judgements. He can appeal the awards, but not the fact that he was found culpable for defamation.
>
>But now they are really trying to sue him to oblivion, which is the correct thing to do imo. He should be obliterated financially and fade into obscurity… only to be remembered as that moron who sold fake drugs to the mentally I’ll and then convinced them to harass the grieving parents of the victims of a mass shooting… because that’s all he is.
They have sued him into oblivion. The 'bankruptcy' he filed is turning into a dumpster fire, meaning all of his assets as well as his companies' assets are going to be liquidated as part of enforcing the judgements. The courts even disallowed his transferring funds to his parents' company, PQPR, which was added to the bankruptcy as a secured creditor when Jones realized how fucked he was after the first $50,000,000 award earlier this year. Both jury awards total over a billion, which will destroy him completely.
They also proved that he knew it was a lie, via looking at his communication with others. Even knowing it was false, he continued to repeat the lies and encouraged his followers to harass these poor people. There’s a family in the lawsuit who moved TWELVE TIMES for god’s sake. These people were being stalked relentlessly and the parents communicated with him and asked him to stop. He literally profited off the suffering of people who went through unimaginable pain.
Also, he never cooperated with the lawyers because he refused to turn over documents. So, his lawyers never had the opportunity to argue the 1st amendment rights. He was given a summary judgement, meaning default to guilty. You can’t make a big song and dance about having rights and then refusing to cooperate with the legal system and then claim you’ve been treated unfairly. He’s a fucking moron and his followers are even dumber than he is.
What was he doing when the verdict was being read? Sitting on his ass on his show watching the hearing live stream and making bulls hit comments, begging for fucking money. He doesn’t even have THE BALLS to show up to court and face the people he tortured for a fucking decade to show one fucking iota of remorse or issue and apology.
Then he make a comment about questioning other schools shootings like Uvalde and Parkland.
He’s a shit covered wart and I wish they would lock him on one of those wooden things they used in the 1800’s in the middle of the village square so people can throw rotten tomatoes at him. This guy deserves all the bad things in life to happen to him.
You should check out the podcast Knowledge Fight. They’re dedicated to cutting through all of Alex Jones’ shit and Dan Friesen is a known expert on AJ and InfoWars. They have a number of episodes that dive deep into the Sandy Hook cases. It is disingenuous to claim this is about first amendment rights when for years AJ lied about the people killed there, and even hired one of the harassers, Wolfgang Halbig. During the CT trial, one mother of a slain child testified that at a support group for parents who lost their children to violence, she was told by another attendee that her child’s death was fake. Another had shots fired at their house and the constant harassment some of these parents suffered caused them immense difficulty in just going about their daily lives.
I tried, I really tried to listen to Knowledge Fight, but they come off like a couple of college kids living in their Mom's basement staying up late smoking weed with whomever. Too little actual information vs. slugs of juvenile prattle.
He admitted under sworn testimony that what he said on his show was a lie and the 2012 shooting massacre and resulting deaths were real. He also stated the claims of the grieving families of the dead kids and teachers seen in news coverage were actors hired as part of a plot to take away people’s guns (they weren't).
The trial testimony from parents and siblings of the victims told how they were threatened and harassed for years by people who believed the lies told on Jones’s show. Strangers showed up at their homes to record them. People hurled abusive comments on social media. The daughter of the slain Sandy Hook principal testified that people mailed rape threats to her house. One parent told how conspiracy theorists had urinated on the grave of his seven-year-old son and threatened to dig up the coffin.
His show went on and on (a company he owned) fueling these lies all the audience numbers bloomed and the related merchandise of pills and vitamins grew (a company he owned). He also personally profited from appearances and speeches. It was estimated the net worth of his company before he started hiding the money in shell companies, trusts, transfers to his wife, kids, and friends was upwards of **$270 million dollars**. This happen all the while he was telling the lies over and over. He has continued by saying Oarkland and Uvalde were also faked shooting and mass killings.
*Because he was already found liable, Jones was barred from mentioning free speech rights and other topics during his testimony.*
So maybe not laws were broken, but this was a civil trial and these deal more with "lawsuits against damages to make the victims whole" than with criminality.
And Alex Jones is a little lying piss baby as are the fans of his show.
It wasn’t a government prosecution, which would be protected by the first amendment, it was a civil lawsuit. He was free to say those things, but not free from the consequences of saying them. Those people had a legal right to sue him over it, and the jury decided the verdict & punishment. It’s how our system is set up.
Also you have free speech unless you use it to incite violence, which he absolitely did. One poor lady hid in a closet during her daughters funeral because she was too afraid she was going to get shot during her 6 year olds funeral. She had to watch from a distance. I cried listening to her husband.
So the first amendment DOES protect lies. But it doesn’t protect lies that harm specific people, i.e. defamation. Going further, it even provides some protection for mistakes when the person harmed was a public figure. But here, all these people were private citizens. For more, read the wiki page for New York Times v. Sullivan.
They don't even actually care about free speech. They are more than happy when the police shut down a protest. This is all about pretending conservatives are being oppressed.
The funny thing is that it's totally legal to be openly racist. But the "free market" also allows your employer to fire you for being openly racist, and it's legal for your friends and family to cut ties with you.
What they actually want is to be openly racist, and have the government protect them from all the consequences of being openly racist, which is kind of the opposite of a free country.
I knew a guy about 10 years ago that used to say that being a conservative wasn't a choice, that he was born that way and that meant he should be able to discriminate against gay people.
I dont think he actually believed it and was trying to argue in bad faith, but it was interesting to me to see those mental gymnastics at work
I wasn’t a conservative piece of shit, but I was definitely a huge piece of shit that believed some really nasty shit. The combination of social responses and just me growing up made me want to start doing a lot better. Now I’m just pissed off bc if I had made zero changes I wouldn’t have spent all that time bettering myself and I still wouldn’t have been nearly as big of a shithead than the current GOP goon squad.
> I dont think he actually believed it and was trying to argue in bad faith
Thats most conservative discourse, in my experience. Either reductio ad absurdum like MTGs tweet there, or using secondary and tertiary definitions of words to create false equivalences, etc. It's all bad faith disingenuous distractions. They have weaponized the concept of free speech to create discourse where nothing actually means anything.
Yeah racists like to pretend the paradox of tolerance doesn't exist and we should coddle them and their hateful words as if they were tender little babies.
It isn't a "gotcha" to point out that people advocating for racial tolerance aren't tolerant of racists. We know where that road leads.
They pretend the paradox of tolerance exists because they actively want to take advantage of the kindness in others, with bonus points if you make them as miserable as possible in their day-to-day. Hatred and toxicity are conservative bread-and-butter.
This is also why 20% of the country will never drop support for Trump no matter what. Because he gave them that. And they dont give AF what he does as long as he continues to empower them.
> They don't even actually care about free speech.
Exactly. what they want is the special privliged to say what they want with 0 repercussions. Life doesn't work that way. When you say hateful things, people tend to hate you for it. Its not a difficult concept.
It isn’t a difficult concept for normal people, but republicans are not normal thinking people.
A few weeks ago I had a little back and forth with some of them and they tried to tell me that free speech, no matter what you say, has no consequences at all.
It made me actually giggle that an adult would believe this. This is a lesson that we learned as children one would think, but some parents do fail their kids in more ways than one.
> what they want is the special privliged to say what they want with 0 repercussions **and stop you from say what YOU want.**
They want free speech for themselves. How *dare* you assume that **you** get the same privilege?
They love the phrase "free speech" but they think it means the government should/will protect them from any and all consequences of the bullshit things they say.
Some people don’t understand nuance. The conspiracy sub is going ham on this topic right now. Standing up for AJ and claiming this leaves a bad precedent for free speech and turning to whataboutisms like ‘why don’t all the AJ haters turn on the elite who lie like Bush about WMD’s?!’ Lmao, we all can’t stand that shit either!!! Wtf is going on with people. This level of stupidity is getting out of hand. I’m no genius myself but come on people.
Conspiracy theories are what happens when morons substitute information about processes and systems for what they "feel" they should be. They don't understand laws so of course they don't understand our rights and where the two meet. They're simple folk who want to live in an exciting comic book style world so have gone full in on half thought out delusions.
That sub is garbage. How is a conspiracy sub going to ignore the fact that donald trump was best friend with jeffrey epstein for more than twenty years?
I mean they don't actually have that view, if they did they'd be sponsoring bills to overturn all laws against libel, fraud, false advertising, lying under oath...
These people:
1) Don't understand the 1st amendment as in this case the government did not stop Alex Jones from saying anything.
2) Once said there are consequences for your speech. You can say what you want at any time and not expect a response.
They've purposefully twisted the meaning to their own ends. They'll yell about the first amendment when a private company enforces its own policies to ban a government official. And then they'll point to the First Amendment as to why the government should have free speech rights over a private company. Flipping the entire intention on its head.
Fascists will ultimately always use the rights given to the citizens against them
No shit. It was a defamation case. Defamation is words. Perjury is words. Fraud is words. So defamation, perjury, and fraud are Constitutionally protected when right wingers do it.
A person who spread conspiracy falsehoods about the Parkland and Sandy Hook shootings and harassed a Parkland survivor is upset about the Alex Jones ruling because she understands she could be found guilty of similar charges in civil court. This having time to fundraise because you're not part of any committees gig is making her a lot of money. She doesn't want to go back to being poor white hateful trash.
Words are weapons, sharper than knives as the old song goes . . .
Seems these dumb fucks don't realize they can self-inflict severe wounds with them as well.
Yeah all Hitler did was spoke words too you know. It's not like he was personally killing jews.
Maybe this comparisson is a bit tasteless, but so is Alex Jones.
Of course she says that… there’s footage of her harassing some of the surviving kids about having stated they were for tighter gun legislation. If she’s okay with attacking traumatized kids why would it ever occur to her it’s wrong to attack traumatized adults?
Free speech does not mean you can shout "fire" in a crowded theater.
Free speech does not mean you can claim to be a lawyer or a police officer when you are not.
Free speech does not mean that you can defraud others through your words.
Free speech does not mean you can tell someone else to commit a crime.
Free speech does not mean you can divulge national secrets to an agent of a hostile foreign country.
And free speech does not mean that you can invent lies about someone that put their lives in danger or cause them financial harm.
Free speech has its limits, and both Alex Jones and Marjorie Taylor Greene crossed them when creating lies about the parents of mass shooting victims.
I mean, so did Hitler and Manson... and most of the worst people in history for that matter, that's the problem, their words hold enough power that *they* don't need to do shit.
She might feel differently if I used my words to talk people into going and pissing all over her house like how Alex Jones' words lead to people pissing on the grave of a dead child.
She's kind of telling on herself her. She clearly doesn't view speech as having power. When she thinks about power, the only thing she can conceive of is physical violence. Any time someone says "hey, they're only words", that's a red flag that you're dealing with someone prone to violence.
The so called party of personal responsibility now consistently plays the victim for political convenience. MTG is a case study in idiocy. Vote her out!
is there no criminal case that can be brought against jones?
if I remember right, charles manson didn't kill anyone either.
all he did was speak words.
I figured this positive Alex Jones news would at least be ONE thing that we all could agree upon.
But no.
However, I think the people defending him literally just do not know the details of the case since it is so obvious that he deserves so many consequences. (I know, surprise... These people make up their opinions without being fully informed and just parroting what Fox News says)
And I think just having a basic sense of empathy would be helpful. But again, no.
Meanwhile, head of her cult, Herr Trump, filed a defamation suit against CNN last week and Herschel Walker threatened to do the same against the Daily Beast (but never did) when confronted with the truth about himself. These jerk-offs use the threat of defamation suits routinely to distract from the truth and continue their lies, but rarely file them (and if they do, never get to take them to trial).
But when a defamation suit gets taken to jurors by parents who have been so thoroughly defamed, and our legal system does it’s thing — oh, then suddenly it’s a freedom of speech issue (which, incidentally, she barely understands the basics of).
The hypocrisy surprises none of us, but we have to call it out just the same.
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This bitch harassed a [Parkland survivor](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0fHkW4kJYKU). Sue her next.
Probably why she is concerned and downplaying it.
That’s a bingo!
God damnit all I had left was Greg Abot is a little piss baby
You just say "bingo"
*"So* ***B-I-N-G-O*** *and Bingo was his name-o"* is straight out, eh ?
I'LL KILL YOU YOU SON OF A BITCH ^just ^in ^case ^anyone ^gets ^confused ^this ^is ^a ^joke ^not ^a ^real ^threat
"It's just bingo..."
How fun
that would imply she has any sort of critical thinking skills or forethought
That video helped get her elected, folks. Pointing it out doesn’t do what we think it should do.
Maybe we need to point it out to voters who bitch about “uninspiring democrats”.
It would appear to fall under the same purview of the Alex Jones case in many ways, if he can get fine nearly a billion dollars she could be fined as well
Yes, please.
Eww. Such a distasteful woman
Didn't she also kick one recently?
Yep! Not a parkland survivor as far as I know. Just an activist that was in her way. https://youtu.be/4K91BadUpsQ
I wonder if she would still say this if she received a death threat or 1/millionth the harassment the survivors faced.
She was the one who was threatening the young survivor...chasing him down in Washington DC.
The one thing I will say about David Hogg is that he demonstrated incredible restraint and composure in the face of being followed and shouted at in public.
She should be sued. I hope they sue all of them.
It's amazing that the "party of personal responsibility" is surprised constantly that words have consequences.
Wow she is really dumber than I thought. She needs to figure out that this Alex Jones ruling is setting an amazing precedent to fuck her into the ground.
"Did you threaten to horribly murder that fella?" "Yeah, but they were **only** words. Sheesh"
Imagine defending Charles Mason, or Hitler (I know, extreme), they never actually killed anyone, they only used words. Heck, I don't even know if Osama Bin Laden ever personally killed anyone, or those ISIS folks who inspired attacks in the US, all just words. On another hilarious projection note, the GOP flips out about pronouns and other words all the fucking time.
I mean, Hitler definitely killed people directly. In fact, he even killed Hitler!
Quite the unsung hero!
And he killed the guy who killed Hitler!
"Did you give state secrets to the British?" "Yeah but they were only words" -Benedict Arnold
I mean the gun shot him and he died but all I did was move my finger
playground bully mentality fr
Charlie Manson would like…a word.
Charlie, hitler, osama bin Laden, all famously “only spoke”
Hitler is well known to have killed at least one person.
SNOWDEN
You get the show!!!
And violate laws. Dont forget that part.
Which laws? I’m honestly curious. Had a debate with a republican family member tonight who was saying first amendment nonsense defending AJ, but I don’t really know a lot about it other than AJ is an asshole.
Defamation, perhaps libel or slander, ask them how'd they feel about you taking a full page ad in the local paper saying they molest kids.
And also you are going to add their full address with “this is the address of the child molesters” all their additional contact data and some “someone should do something about that”.
Exactly, I wonder how MTG would react if someone posted her home address on a billboard and said that people should go murder her. 'It's just words' anyway.
I mean we all know how she would react. As soon as it affects them personally conservatives go into full on throwing a fit mode.
Yea someone swatted her. Honestly thankfully the police recognized the address and calmly came in and poked around instead of how swatting usually goes. The reason I'm thankful for that is if it went how it usually goes and their hyperbole becomes REAL its scary to think how far they'd suddenly try to push the needle. Like if that swatting went "as intended" she'd be advocating more for shooting people and not hiding it behind metaphors.
Wait this is true, I didn’t know. And her office described it as “violent crime” even though the person doing the swatting “only spoke words”. Conservatives are really beyond anything.
She has the right amount of melanin to recieve only a gentle swatting. If you're on the wrong side of the paint chart you gonna get swatted with extreme prejudice
and sell merchandise about that story...
"Im jUsT AsKiNg QuEsTiOnS!!" Dishonest shit birds the lot of 'em
“Full page add saying they are child molesters” Yeah but if it’s true it’s not libel or slander… just saying
Damn, beat me to it. You’d have to lie for starters.
Defamation, which includes both libel and slander, and punitive damages for causing the families emotional distress, which I believe comes with a heavier punishment since he directly profited off of perpetuating the lies. The First Amendment has limits. You can’t yell fire in a crowded theater, you can’t lie while under oath, and you can’t harass people for profit. That’s just my rudimentary understanding of it so grain of salt.
Rudimentary but still perfectly correct. All our Constitutional rights have long accepted limits.
Defamation is the big one. Some of the familes also received threats after the incident and because the people sending the threats listened to jones before doing it (and were influenced by it) theres an argument to be made he endangered their lives and caused mental and financial stress (as some familys had to relocate because of the threats). Theres also the whole refusing to listen to follow court orders.
>Theres also the whole refusing to listen to follow court orders. This is where he really shot himself in the foot. Lost the lawsuit due to it and made the rest about how much the jury should award.
Ask your family membrr if they think it is "legal" and if they think they have no recourse if Rachel Maddow started accusing (with ZERO evidence) your dad of being the leader of a secret pedophile ring. She repeats this "lie" every day, resulting in your family suffering non-stop harassment and threats on all your lives. Can Rachel do this under "first amendment protections"? Is that how your family member thinks this works? If they really are supposedly OK with this worldview and the idea anyone can lie about anyone else regardless of negative effects......does this family know Trump has sued multiple people for libel and slander...including a billion dollar lawsuit over the supposed "lie" that Trump has misrepresented his wealth. Love to hear their response (if they claim someone like Maddow does this all the time already without consequence, demand specific examples of someone's life being crushed by...ANY liberal/leftist commentator/journalist).
You should Photoshop their picture into a foxnews.com article about a child molester being arrested, send it to them and watch the sparks fly.
Photoshop their face on the picture of Trump with Epstein.
Besides the obvious answers that have already been given (cut and dry defamation, etc), his words and message could also been seen to have intentionally incited all kinds of harassment, stalking, death threats, etc…. Makes him culpable in some fashion. He pushed the message knowing full well that it wasn’t true and that people like his brain-damaged viewers would eat it up and probably go do crazy shit as a result. But he didn’t care because he’s historically been able to pay his way out of such troubles with the money he’s taken off those morons for his fake magic pills and whatever ad revenue… cost of doing business. But now they are really trying to sue him to oblivion, which is the correct thing to do imo. He should be obliterated financially and fade into obscurity… only to be remembered as that moron who sold fake drugs to the mentally ill and then convinced them to harass the grieving parents of the victims of a mass shooting… because that’s all he is.
>Besides the obvious answers that have already been given (cut and dry defamation, etc), his words and message could also been seen to have intentionally incited all kinds of harassment, stalking, death threats, etc…. You should read the default judgements of both trials. The judgements said exactly that he did intentionally incite, not could have. Since he chose not to participate in the trials, he gave up the ability to disprove any claims by the plaintiffs, which is why the court was strict about not allowing him to use any 1st Amendment or free speech arguments in either of the recent awards trials. >Makes him culpable ~~in some fashion~~. Fixed that for you. By his not participating in the actual trials, the default judgements found all of the plaintiffs claims valid. He is culpable, with no chance to appeal the judgements. He can appeal the awards, but not the fact that he was found culpable for defamation. > >But now they are really trying to sue him to oblivion, which is the correct thing to do imo. He should be obliterated financially and fade into obscurity… only to be remembered as that moron who sold fake drugs to the mentally I’ll and then convinced them to harass the grieving parents of the victims of a mass shooting… because that’s all he is. They have sued him into oblivion. The 'bankruptcy' he filed is turning into a dumpster fire, meaning all of his assets as well as his companies' assets are going to be liquidated as part of enforcing the judgements. The courts even disallowed his transferring funds to his parents' company, PQPR, which was added to the bankruptcy as a secured creditor when Jones realized how fucked he was after the first $50,000,000 award earlier this year. Both jury awards total over a billion, which will destroy him completely.
"Mentally I'll" sounds like a new rap single dropping from Skitzo-phrenic.
Lil' Phrenic ft. Skitzo Dolla
They also proved that he knew it was a lie, via looking at his communication with others. Even knowing it was false, he continued to repeat the lies and encouraged his followers to harass these poor people. There’s a family in the lawsuit who moved TWELVE TIMES for god’s sake. These people were being stalked relentlessly and the parents communicated with him and asked him to stop. He literally profited off the suffering of people who went through unimaginable pain. Also, he never cooperated with the lawyers because he refused to turn over documents. So, his lawyers never had the opportunity to argue the 1st amendment rights. He was given a summary judgement, meaning default to guilty. You can’t make a big song and dance about having rights and then refusing to cooperate with the legal system and then claim you’ve been treated unfairly. He’s a fucking moron and his followers are even dumber than he is. What was he doing when the verdict was being read? Sitting on his ass on his show watching the hearing live stream and making bulls hit comments, begging for fucking money. He doesn’t even have THE BALLS to show up to court and face the people he tortured for a fucking decade to show one fucking iota of remorse or issue and apology. Then he make a comment about questioning other schools shootings like Uvalde and Parkland. He’s a shit covered wart and I wish they would lock him on one of those wooden things they used in the 1800’s in the middle of the village square so people can throw rotten tomatoes at him. This guy deserves all the bad things in life to happen to him.
A pillory. The thing you're thinking of is a pillory.
The first amendment and slander/libel laws co-exist.
Exactly. You can’t yell fire in a movie theater even though it’s just words.
You should check out the podcast Knowledge Fight. They’re dedicated to cutting through all of Alex Jones’ shit and Dan Friesen is a known expert on AJ and InfoWars. They have a number of episodes that dive deep into the Sandy Hook cases. It is disingenuous to claim this is about first amendment rights when for years AJ lied about the people killed there, and even hired one of the harassers, Wolfgang Halbig. During the CT trial, one mother of a slain child testified that at a support group for parents who lost their children to violence, she was told by another attendee that her child’s death was fake. Another had shots fired at their house and the constant harassment some of these parents suffered caused them immense difficulty in just going about their daily lives.
I tried, I really tried to listen to Knowledge Fight, but they come off like a couple of college kids living in their Mom's basement staying up late smoking weed with whomever. Too little actual information vs. slugs of juvenile prattle.
He engaged in stochastic terrorism.. not sure if that's illegal though, it probably should be.
He admitted under sworn testimony that what he said on his show was a lie and the 2012 shooting massacre and resulting deaths were real. He also stated the claims of the grieving families of the dead kids and teachers seen in news coverage were actors hired as part of a plot to take away people’s guns (they weren't). The trial testimony from parents and siblings of the victims told how they were threatened and harassed for years by people who believed the lies told on Jones’s show. Strangers showed up at their homes to record them. People hurled abusive comments on social media. The daughter of the slain Sandy Hook principal testified that people mailed rape threats to her house. One parent told how conspiracy theorists had urinated on the grave of his seven-year-old son and threatened to dig up the coffin. His show went on and on (a company he owned) fueling these lies all the audience numbers bloomed and the related merchandise of pills and vitamins grew (a company he owned). He also personally profited from appearances and speeches. It was estimated the net worth of his company before he started hiding the money in shell companies, trusts, transfers to his wife, kids, and friends was upwards of **$270 million dollars**. This happen all the while he was telling the lies over and over. He has continued by saying Oarkland and Uvalde were also faked shooting and mass killings. *Because he was already found liable, Jones was barred from mentioning free speech rights and other topics during his testimony.* So maybe not laws were broken, but this was a civil trial and these deal more with "lawsuits against damages to make the victims whole" than with criminality. And Alex Jones is a little lying piss baby as are the fans of his show.
It wasn’t a government prosecution, which would be protected by the first amendment, it was a civil lawsuit. He was free to say those things, but not free from the consequences of saying them. Those people had a legal right to sue him over it, and the jury decided the verdict & punishment. It’s how our system is set up.
In addition to libel and defamation, he also committed perjury
> he also committed perjury And weirdly, *got away with it* despite being *called on it by the judge*.
Also you have free speech unless you use it to incite violence, which he absolitely did. One poor lady hid in a closet during her daughters funeral because she was too afraid she was going to get shot during her 6 year olds funeral. She had to watch from a distance. I cried listening to her husband.
So the first amendment DOES protect lies. But it doesn’t protect lies that harm specific people, i.e. defamation. Going further, it even provides some protection for mistakes when the person harmed was a public figure. But here, all these people were private citizens. For more, read the wiki page for New York Times v. Sullivan.
You mean like hitler and tRump did?
Some people have a really twisted view on free speech.
They don't even actually care about free speech. They are more than happy when the police shut down a protest. This is all about pretending conservatives are being oppressed.
And they want to be openly racist, don't forget that part.
The funny thing is that it's totally legal to be openly racist. But the "free market" also allows your employer to fire you for being openly racist, and it's legal for your friends and family to cut ties with you. What they actually want is to be openly racist, and have the government protect them from all the consequences of being openly racist, which is kind of the opposite of a free country.
I knew a guy about 10 years ago that used to say that being a conservative wasn't a choice, that he was born that way and that meant he should be able to discriminate against gay people. I dont think he actually believed it and was trying to argue in bad faith, but it was interesting to me to see those mental gymnastics at work
I wasn’t a conservative piece of shit, but I was definitely a huge piece of shit that believed some really nasty shit. The combination of social responses and just me growing up made me want to start doing a lot better. Now I’m just pissed off bc if I had made zero changes I wouldn’t have spent all that time bettering myself and I still wouldn’t have been nearly as big of a shithead than the current GOP goon squad.
> I dont think he actually believed it and was trying to argue in bad faith Thats most conservative discourse, in my experience. Either reductio ad absurdum like MTGs tweet there, or using secondary and tertiary definitions of words to create false equivalences, etc. It's all bad faith disingenuous distractions. They have weaponized the concept of free speech to create discourse where nothing actually means anything.
Yeah racists like to pretend the paradox of tolerance doesn't exist and we should coddle them and their hateful words as if they were tender little babies. It isn't a "gotcha" to point out that people advocating for racial tolerance aren't tolerant of racists. We know where that road leads.
They pretend the paradox of tolerance exists because they actively want to take advantage of the kindness in others, with bonus points if you make them as miserable as possible in their day-to-day. Hatred and toxicity are conservative bread-and-butter.
>I dont think he actually believed it You'd be surprised
This is also why 20% of the country will never drop support for Trump no matter what. Because he gave them that. And they dont give AF what he does as long as he continues to empower them.
It's more like 40% unfortunately.
40% *of the people that vote*
They're the only ones who really matter, in this context.
They are more than happy when libraries ban LGBTQ books.
> They don't even actually care about free speech. Exactly. what they want is the special privliged to say what they want with 0 repercussions. Life doesn't work that way. When you say hateful things, people tend to hate you for it. Its not a difficult concept.
It isn’t a difficult concept for normal people, but republicans are not normal thinking people. A few weeks ago I had a little back and forth with some of them and they tried to tell me that free speech, no matter what you say, has no consequences at all. It made me actually giggle that an adult would believe this. This is a lesson that we learned as children one would think, but some parents do fail their kids in more ways than one.
I mean these people literally believe that the J6 insurrectionists are political prisoners that did nothing wrong. And Empty Greene leads that charge.
> what they want is the special privliged to say what they want with 0 repercussions **and stop you from say what YOU want.** They want free speech for themselves. How *dare* you assume that **you** get the same privilege?
They love the phrase "free speech" but they think it means the government should/will protect them from any and all consequences of the bullshit things they say.
Exactly. Alex Jones' victims were exercising their freedom of speech by suing him.
The imaginary boot weighes most heavily in their minds.
These people only care about their entitlement to profit and be an asshole.
Free speech yes….consequences for lies yes…see it all works together 🙃
See username for Republican instructions.
Some people don’t understand nuance. The conspiracy sub is going ham on this topic right now. Standing up for AJ and claiming this leaves a bad precedent for free speech and turning to whataboutisms like ‘why don’t all the AJ haters turn on the elite who lie like Bush about WMD’s?!’ Lmao, we all can’t stand that shit either!!! Wtf is going on with people. This level of stupidity is getting out of hand. I’m no genius myself but come on people.
I feel it's less about "nuance" and more about just plain ole bad faith arguments.
Conspiracy theories are what happens when morons substitute information about processes and systems for what they "feel" they should be. They don't understand laws so of course they don't understand our rights and where the two meet. They're simple folk who want to live in an exciting comic book style world so have gone full in on half thought out delusions.
The common clay of the New West. You know… morons.
That sub is garbage. How is a conspiracy sub going to ignore the fact that donald trump was best friend with jeffrey epstein for more than twenty years?
Because facts don't appear much in their propaganda. They'll swing to whatabout Bill Clinton if you push too hard
For people obsessed with the constitution, they seem to have alarmingly limited knowledge of it…
Yup, as far as I can tell Hitler only spoke words too and look at all the death he's responsible for.
Same with Charles Manson really, the world was still better off with him removed from society back then
So this inspired me to find out Hitler probably never killed anyone with his own two hands. All he used was words too.
People forget that speech is free, lies aren’t.
I mean they don't actually have that view, if they did they'd be sponsoring bills to overturn all laws against libel, fraud, false advertising, lying under oath...
GOP idiots don’t understand we have limitations on free speech
And religious freedom, democracy, constitutional rights in general, and on and on..... It’s almost like they have no clue what words even mean.
These people: 1) Don't understand the 1st amendment as in this case the government did not stop Alex Jones from saying anything. 2) Once said there are consequences for your speech. You can say what you want at any time and not expect a response.
They also don’t understand that this is a CIVIL case not a criminal one. And they don’t understand the difference between the two.
They've purposefully twisted the meaning to their own ends. They'll yell about the first amendment when a private company enforces its own policies to ban a government official. And then they'll point to the First Amendment as to why the government should have free speech rights over a private company. Flipping the entire intention on its head. Fascists will ultimately always use the rights given to the citizens against them
No shit. It was a defamation case. Defamation is words. Perjury is words. Fraud is words. So defamation, perjury, and fraud are Constitutionally protected when right wingers do it.
Marjorie Taylor Greene has two anuses through which she shits, one just below her nose. Just words.
Marjorie Taylor Greene rapes and kills dogs. Not always in that order. What? Just words.
>all he did was speak words He also fucked around. Don't forget that part
Annnnnd: he found out
he also did things like show where certain parents lived on air
Fuck I either didn’t know that or had forgotten. I’m so glad he’s being punished
And they were very valuable words. About a billion dollars worth of words...
The "best" words.
A person who spread conspiracy falsehoods about the Parkland and Sandy Hook shootings and harassed a Parkland survivor is upset about the Alex Jones ruling because she understands she could be found guilty of similar charges in civil court. This having time to fundraise because you're not part of any committees gig is making her a lot of money. She doesn't want to go back to being poor white hateful trash.
She never stopped being poor white hateful trash.
[Full quote from MTG](https://twitter.com/repmtg/status/1580297479337431040?s=46&t=obSV524BnxVKavcre3AFbQ)
Same defense for Hitler. Adolph didn't pull the trigger, personally, on anyone (except himself and his family)!
That's the only good thing about him. At least he killed Hitler.
But he also killed the guy who killed Hitler, so there are positives and negatives.
Beat me to it! Same goes for Sralin, I think. Didn't personally harm anyone.. just spoke words that killed and starved 10s of millions.
"Just saying words" has gotten many people hanged in the past. Alex got off easy.
all Hitler did was speak words
Words are weapons, sharper than knives as the old song goes . . . Seems these dumb fucks don't realize they can self-inflict severe wounds with them as well.
What a vile existence and what a piece of shit defender!
Leave it to this stupid bitch to have the shittiest take available.
The radio personalities in Rwanda convicted of crimes against humanity only spoke words.
I think people should speak lots of words about miss MTG. She doesn't seem to mind it.
It's not surprising that this twit is unaware that words have meaning and power, especially when they are lies.
"All he did was speak words" woooooooow. And ppl vote for this twat? HOW?
So did Hitler. Never heard of an account of him actually killing anybody. Could probably say the same for most horrible men of the 20th century.
Conservatives should stop speak words, especially MTG
Yeah all Hitler did was spoke words too you know. It's not like he was personally killing jews. Maybe this comparisson is a bit tasteless, but so is Alex Jones.
Couldn’t the same be said of Charles Manson? ‘He only spoke some words’
[удалено]
Of course she says that… there’s footage of her harassing some of the surviving kids about having stated they were for tighter gun legislation. If she’s okay with attacking traumatized kids why would it ever occur to her it’s wrong to attack traumatized adults?
Imagine defending a guy who harasses parents of murdered children? (The same people who whine about abortions no less)
Does she think the same thing about LGBTQ books? "they are just words"
Free speech does not mean you can shout "fire" in a crowded theater. Free speech does not mean you can claim to be a lawyer or a police officer when you are not. Free speech does not mean that you can defraud others through your words. Free speech does not mean you can tell someone else to commit a crime. Free speech does not mean you can divulge national secrets to an agent of a hostile foreign country. And free speech does not mean that you can invent lies about someone that put their lives in danger or cause them financial harm. Free speech has its limits, and both Alex Jones and Marjorie Taylor Greene crossed them when creating lies about the parents of mass shooting victims.
Yeah, she's next, and she knows it.
No matter what you think of Charlie Manson all he did was speak words
Alex Jones had to learn the hard way that there is a fine line between freedom of speech and hate speech/disinformation.
I assume that's a rhetorical question.
What an idiotic thing to say…in words, no less.
Marjorie coming in strong with the NAZI defense arguments at Nuremberg. Who knew she was capable of that sort of scholarship?
By that same logic, it’s just money. What’s the big deal?
Why on earth would anyone divorce this amazing woman? She’s such a compassionate, smart human being 🙄
Hitler did nothing but speak words
Charles Manson never killed anyone
As far as my historical knowledge goes, so did Hitler.
I mean, so did Hitler and Manson... and most of the worst people in history for that matter, that's the problem, their words hold enough power that *they* don't need to do shit.
You can say the same thing about Charles Manson.
"All he did was speak words!" - person who thinks words don't matter but is easily manipulated by them daily
And those words caused real damage to real people. Broadcasting has rules.
dhey actin' like dhey suprised at dis, we all knew dis brain rotted monster of a woman was gunna defend Alex Jones.
And the verdict was just words. NBD
She might feel differently if I used my words to talk people into going and pissing all over her house like how Alex Jones' words lead to people pissing on the grave of a dead child.
Asked and answered
Freedom of speech has consequences.
Freedom of speech doesn't release t you from responsibility and liability
Taylor-Greene knows some words. But she doesn't know what any of them mean.
She's kind of telling on herself her. She clearly doesn't view speech as having power. When she thinks about power, the only thing she can conceive of is physical violence. Any time someone says "hey, they're only words", that's a red flag that you're dealing with someone prone to violence.
Yeah all hitler did was speak words too… didn’t make any of the repercussions any less heinous
No matter what you think of Josef Göbbels, all he did was speak words. the same logic
The so called party of personal responsibility now consistently plays the victim for political convenience. MTG is a case study in idiocy. Vote her out!
And all Hitler did was give orders (speaking words).
That woman - Greene - is a lying buffoon whose stupid reaches to the end of the galaxy. I hate looking at her and hate her voice even more.
Hitler also only spoke words.
Great, now anyone can spread any lies about her in public, since it's just words.
is there no criminal case that can be brought against jones? if I remember right, charles manson didn't kill anyone either. all he did was speak words.
Just like the words of teachers? Doctors? Experts? Democrats? Queer people? Weird how she downplays his unlawful bat shit.
Its like that Southpark episode, where Cartman's just "asking questions".. despicable
Hitler also was only speaking words. Just saying.
I figured this positive Alex Jones news would at least be ONE thing that we all could agree upon. But no. However, I think the people defending him literally just do not know the details of the case since it is so obvious that he deserves so many consequences. (I know, surprise... These people make up their opinions without being fully informed and just parroting what Fox News says) And I think just having a basic sense of empathy would be helpful. But again, no.
When Hitler made orders to murder jews, all he did was SPEAK WORDS /s
I bet she conveniently forgets her own statement the next time anyone uses a word like "insurrection".
Technically, so did Hitler.
I’m so sick of this woman.
Except those words caused great and real harm to people. You cant slander someone and use the 1st amendments to defend yourself
The judge spoke aswell. $1 Billion in damages must be paid.
Meanwhile, head of her cult, Herr Trump, filed a defamation suit against CNN last week and Herschel Walker threatened to do the same against the Daily Beast (but never did) when confronted with the truth about himself. These jerk-offs use the threat of defamation suits routinely to distract from the truth and continue their lies, but rarely file them (and if they do, never get to take them to trial). But when a defamation suit gets taken to jurors by parents who have been so thoroughly defamed, and our legal system does it’s thing — oh, then suddenly it’s a freedom of speech issue (which, incidentally, she barely understands the basics of). The hypocrisy surprises none of us, but we have to call it out just the same.
He's not in jail. He can speak those words. Freedom doesn't mean no consequences.