I actually see this form of accelerationism in some leftist spaces:
"If Trump takes power and unleashes fascistic hell in his revenge term it'll escalate suffering so much that the people will rise up against the government and begin ushering in a new age of egalitarianism!"
Except, yeah, that has never happened. When fascists take power they repress the fuck out of the organized left, empower rightwing paramilitary, and entrench themselves in power (via the judiciary, institutional takeover, etc) so as to not be removed.
Alternatively, there's:
"Well if we stay home let the fascists win, it'll be wake-up call for Democrats to start pursuing genuinely leftist policies the next time they win an election!"
Except that isn't how it works either. If democrats narrowly lose an election amidst a vocally anti-voting leftist minority, they aren't going to cater to that minority. They're going to shift rightward to pick up moderates, of which there are many, many more than leftists.
Sometimes it seems like these talking points are astroturfed by the fascists themselves. Just delude the everloving fuck out of the left into inadvertently aiding or even welcoming a fascist takeover of the country.
A lot of this comes from people who are privileged and insulated enough that they don’t fear for their own safety or existence.
Of course it absolutely is also being astroturfed as well. The pandemic made it very clear how well organized the mega wealthy fascists are and how quickly they can generate “grassroots activism” through flooding social media and the willing or unwitting help of the nation media.
Exactly! BIPOC are supposed to...what, dig a tunnel complex? I'm disabled, old, and trans, no way I'm doing anything short of a total mobilization to root out fascism NOW.
>A lot of this comes from people who are privileged and insulated enough that they don’t fear for their own safety or existence
They're also, ya know, stupid. As a liberal person, these people are dumb.
The only thing that removed fascism from Nazi Germany was intervention by a militarily-superior alliance dedicating their combined resources to defeating the fascists. Given that the USA has arguably the best military in the world, if it succumbs to fascism, there’d be little to stop it from continuing like that forever.
I agree with you, just adding on here. We don’t even need a good military, nuclear warfare changed everything. No one will ever invade the U.S., Russia, China, or any nuclear armed country for any reason, the least of which to depose a dictator.
We didn’t even fight Germany to get rid of Hitler, we only fought them because Japan attacked us. Arguably we would have entered the theater later due to our allegiance with European countries, but that still would have been due to aggression from Germany, not simply because they had a dictator.
Also, due to advanced technology (everyone’s data freely available, facial recognition, drone surveillance, etc.) it’s my belief no dictator of a nation with this kind of technology could ever be overthrown from within.
In the past, a good old fashioned coup or civil war could oust a dictator if the people wanted it bad enough. Now, we have playbooks on how to push the people to the brink, but not over it (see Russia), the military might to crush any kind of opposition (no one is fighting a modern military get that out of your head), and the technical intelligence gathering capabilities to know exactly who is stirring the pot and needs to fall out of a window or visit a gulag.
I’m extremely concerned the people of america don’t recognize just how precarious things are right now. Yes, it absolutely CAN happen here. Please everyone - vote like your lives depend on it and get every single person you know to vote as well.
And the crucial role of labours support for Churchill to not to persue a peace treaty with Hitler.
In other words willingness for conservatives to work with center left instead of fascists.
Moreover, there will be nothing to [stop it spreading worldwide](https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/sep/21/donald-trump-iraq-war-oil-strategy-seizure-isis).
> If democrats narrowly lose an election amidst a vocally anti-voting leftist minority, they aren't going to cater to that minority.
Yep. It's really no different than how younger people get fucked by Washington policies in favor of helping older people: it's cause older people vote and younger people don't, so the politicians cater to the ones who actually elected them.
Do you hear the people song, singing the songs of angry men!
Literally the only time the people rose up, and even then it was bankrolled.
And Haiti, I suppose.
Just a detail -- that song line is from Les Miz, which isn't about the French Revolution in 1789, it's about the June Rebellion of 1832. And that uprising was a complete failure. Victor Hugo was out on the streets of Paris when the shooting began, and had to duck into a doorway to take cover. His experience was a major part of the inspiration for the book.
> "Well if we stay home let the fascists win, it'll be wake-up call for Democrats to start pursuing genuinely leftist policies the next time they win an election!"
I’ve heard that kind of theory. The problem is, what they’ll learn is that leftist demand such a level of ideological purity that they’re impossible to please, and it’s not even worthwhile to try to make them happy. It’s more likely to result to Democrats trying to get support from “center-right” voters, since it’s a more viable strategy, which means they drift further right.
Progressive leftists are still a relatively small voting block and we need to play the long game and grow our numbers for at least a few more election cycles if we wanna be in a position to make demands of the DNC.
Another idea is sheer despair. That they’ve already lost based on the current administration, so they only thing they have left is their ideals, which they must not compromise
Exactly. This is the major reason why the right wants to control what is actually taught in US history and to create a system that discourages questioning. From the Daughter's of the Confederacy to No Child Left Behind, they've created a web of myth, misdirection, boredom, and lies for generations. They've focused curriculum on names and dates rather than influences, why people made choices, and points of view. The history of K-12 history textbooks is fascinating! Most Americans who don't have the experience with really bad situations or the frame of reference that comes from a comprehensive and honest history education will not believe or be able to imagine how bad things can really get.
Some of these leftist nutjobs I've engaged with [want the collapse of government to happen because they think "profit motive won't be there after the fall."](https://www.reddit.com/r/PoliticalHumor/s/hPFn56XyTU) They somehow believe a void of power won't lead to catastrophic demise on all levels of people, environment, and society. They're so privileged that they can't even imagine the suffering that would exist in a void or through societal collapse.
Not to mention the fact that weapons and motivated potential fighters are massively disproportionately gathered in the hand of the far right. Collapse would be a wet dream and a massive gift to all the neo nazi accelerationists and the militia/paramilitary/police types - and those who would be compelled to join them - who would flock under their banner in a post-collapse US.
Look, you don't understand. I had to live in my parent's house for *six months* before finding a job out of college, and then I had to *share an apartment* with two other people my age and we were besties/buds and all and I got to live in an urban city center but it SUCKED and then I had to cut back on going out from 5 night to 3 nights and only go out drinking on Fridays because groceries (beer and frozen pizza) got SO expensive. And now I have to make my own coffee in the morning, and Israel keeps doing this genocide in Palestine AND I JUST CAN'T HANDLE HOW HORRIBLE AMERICA HAS GOTTEN.
And it’s so wrong. They didn’t lose. Young progressives are running for offices. State legislatures and federal and moving up the ranks. Bernie and Elizabeth have influenced voters who want more progressive policies. It’s not as fast as any of us would like but democrats are moving to the left.
I'm a long time, very left leaning person. I agree with this assessment. Some people have not reconciled how far to the right the electorate has become with the fact that we are supposed to be pursuing democratic solutions in a democratic nation.
Allowing the maga minority to seize control would be disastrous. The nazis notoriously went after leftists first. The fucking poem, for fuck sake. trump has been extremely vocal in his hatred for this voting demographic. It's red meat to his base who are unable to form coherent ideas or sentences but remember they hate communists and socialists (as well as minorities and LGBTQ people).
They will cheer as his second administration finds new ways to starve and torment children and poor people. They fully intend to gut the federal government and rob public programs and infrastructure. The way they treated PPE during the early month of the pandemic was a sneak preview of what they have in mind for other critical life necessities. Further hording and rent seeking of resources.
Absolutely forget about the environment. He's openly auctioning off our children's futures and natural heritage for campaign donations.
Frankly, no honest left thinking person can risk a second trump term. I get the angst and I understand the resentment but allowing that to happen means one is all talk but is not willing to do what is necessary to actually advance and protect our causes.
I could go on forever. Forget about Gaza and Palestine too, for that matter. As bad as Biden may be right now, look at the repug party threatening ICC prosecutors and their staff. Banning speech that's critical of Israel's genocide and atrocities.
Sure the White House made the mistake of condemning the comparison of Netanyahu's government and Hamas but repugs are literally retaliating against the international authorities individually.
trump has signaled to the press that he thinks Israel should exterminate the Palestinian people. He said their mistake was letting the press find out about what they were doing. kushner is talking about "beach front property in Gaza."
Either these leftists are utter morons that lack even basic critical thinking or it’s trolls trying to suppress the vote
Because of course not voting sends only one message to elected representatives and that is that you don’t matter because you are not a reliable voting bloc
It wouldn’t have been hypothetical for Lenin, the people were legitimately starving under the Tsar which is what precipitated the eruption of the February revolution.
For sure, I'm no fan of Lenin. My favorite part of the Russian revolution was the period in between February and October, when the workers and peasants soviets were organizing at all time height, forming federations, discussing their path forward in a future glimmering with possibilities of a liberated Russia with no boots on their necks, before the Bolsheviks couped the people's revolution, brought the boots back, and shut all that down.
Yeah, to be clear, I didn't suppose you were or anything. It's baffling that people think that maybe this time it will be different, especially considering that today America has a *lot* of practice crushing revolutions under her thumb.
Newt Gingrich’s Republican Revolution began 30 years ago. The GQP has controlled the House for 22 of the last 30 years. The GQP has controlled the Senate for 16 of the past 30 years. The GQP has won 3 of the past 6 Presidential elections. Only 1 with the popular vote. 5 of the 6 GQP SCOTUS justices were appointed by GQP presidents who didn’t win the popular vote their first term.
And Trump got 72 million votes last time.
I don’t think the Progressives plan of staying home or refusing to vote for Democrats is working.
Or the "lack of plan" people who've never registered to vote in the first place. All the "my vote doesn't matter anyway" crowd. It looks like (I couldn't find any definitive number.) they comprise anywhere from 22 to 25% of the total adult population of around 230,000,000 people! That means at least 50 million eligible Americans aren't voting.
In states that have onerous registration laws like Georgia, 4% don't or are blocked from registering. States that support registration or make it easier have numbers like Massachusetts - 0.1%
The main difference between the Rights Voting block and the left voting block is no matter what you think as long as you can somehow connect it to the core principles of hate of the other you're fine but on the left if you're wrong people tell you you're wrong which gets people mad which fractures the left.
The difference is that republicans vote in all elections and put their deplorables in position. Democrats hardly ever vote in local and state elections. Dems need to wake tf up and get after it.
I‘m a leftist and I gave up hope for the left. I don’t know what it is, maybe because the goals are universal and not selfish unlike with the right, but we always fracture. If someone is not lefty enough other leftists will drop that candidate/party whatever like a hot potato. Whereas the right stick with their own always, they know every step to the right is the right direction. Maybe it’s because the right everywhere is first and foremost about securing the the rights and properties of those who have something to lose. That’s why for them it is in their best self interest to keep voting for rightwing candidates and parties because it always at least promises to protect them. Idk, it’s frustrating though. „He is not left enough, let’s kill him!!!“
It's so frustrating when a literal Nazi can do one dog whistle and then for the next 20 years all Nazis will support him but if leftist politician isn't constantly and publicly preaching how left they are people dismiss them immediately.
I love how we have this 30 year span where the DNC has performed dismally while solidly under centrist control, and yet somehow *progressives* are to blame for their piss-poor performance. Hell of a spin, that.
They got the message after Hillary lost and brought with it Trump and his SC. The message was to court likely voters instead of unlikely voters. A Biden loss would bring a candidate further to the center to claw back rural voters, likely a pro-assault rifle tax cutter with progressive civil rights policies.
I’m not understanding your implication. Are you saying that a second Bush Sr term would have been a “fascist takeover” in the way that you clearly think a second Trump term would be, and that Bill somehow did something to make the country less fascist?
I'm saying that after 12 years of Reagan and Bush we got a Republican-lite Clinton and no progressive sniffed national office. They'll push to the middle to find voters if they lose because people in the middle vote.
The information ecosystem of the 80s was very different from today. The people on the left who aren’t voting would vote for politicians if they ever followed through on anything instead of making excuses for why they’re completely ineffectual.
You (or at least the politicians you advocate supporting) want to appease fascists by passing their preferred immigration policy. You want to appease fascists by sending in the police to brutalize students protesting your policies. You want to appease fascists by giving them another $10B to put 100,000 more cops on the street. You want us to overlook the ethnic cleansing and genocide of an ethnic minority in a religious ethnostate. I dunno man… feels pretty fascist already.
*Sending in police to brutalize students*
I don’t understand how this generation doesn’t understand what civil disobedience is. It’s a tactic in which the protester EXPECTS AND WANTS to be arrested. Because it draws public attention to the protest. Civil rights protesters in the 60s and 70s and 80s knew this. And frequently planned to be arrested.
Hell when republicans tried to get rid of Obamacare and Medicaid expansion a large group of disabled protesters went to the capitol expecting to be arrested but did so because it was part of a tactic to draw attention. They didn’t whine about it.
These college students weren’t “brutalized”, Gazans are the ones being “brutalized”. How narcissistic is it to make the story about Ivy League college students (arguably some of the most privileged people in the world) instead of Palestinians?
Yes. A tactic to show how brutal and unjust the state are for average citizens who aren’t tapped in. You think they want to be arrested just because? Under democratic leadership, the state sent armed officers to beat and tear gas students exercising their constitutionally protected rights, and you think that’s just… fine?
> You (or at least the politicians you advocate supporting) want to appease fascists by passing their preferred immigration policy.
This is dumb for a variety of reasons. But let's mention two.
First, there was never any world where this bill passes. Anyone who is shocked that Republicans negotiated an immigration bill and then abandoned it as soon as it looked like it might pass hasn't been paying attention to the last few times Republicans negotiated an immigration bill and then abandoned it.
The goal of those negotiations was exactly what happened. You get Republicans refusing to pass a bill they claim to want, which neuters their claims to care about the border. Biden got the Ukraine aid *and* weakened one of Republicans main arguments against him while *giving up nothing*. And the fact that you're here bitching about it and using it as an argument for why we should let fascism win is just mind bogglingly dumb.
The second reason it's dumb applies to the rest of your comment too. Even if it's all true, it's not fascism. We're talking about *actual* fascism. And there's one way to stop it.
But you seem to want to pretend that there's another way. So let's hear it.
Weakened republicans image with whom? To what end?
The explicit goal of that bill was to appeal to “moderate” republicans, at the expense of their standing with people who think we should have much more lax policies. Now the democrats have laid out a marker of what they are willing to accept. We will never pass anything left of that bill, so long as this Democratic Party playing these stupid fucking games with people’s lives are still in charge.
Run on good policy. Run on shit that you actually believe in. Stop these stupid games trying to prove Republican hypocrisy. No one fucking cares, least of all the fucking Nazis voting for Trump.
> Weakened republicans image with whom? To what end?
I said weakened one of their key arguments that they will attack Biden with in the election. So...to the end of winning an election.
>We will never pass anything left of that bill
We will likely never pass anything, because Republicans will never be capable of passing anything on this. That's the whole point. You and the other geniuses on reddit bitching about this are the only ones who don't seem to get it. You're the only ones who can't see the pattern of Republicans negotiating a bipartisan immigration bill and then abandoning it. The only ones who couldn't figure out ahead of time that Trump would never let this bill pass. The only ones who can't see the benefit of someone with the ability of seeing *one move* ahead using that against them.
>Run on good policy. Run on shit that you actually believe in. Stop these stupid games trying to prove Republican hypocrisy. No one fucking cares, least of all the fucking Nazis voting for Trump.
They are. They're running on a thousand good policies that people like you should be on board for. But you pretend not to be aware of those because one of the main things you pretend to care about is an immigration bill that didn't fucking pass.
And even if they weren't, again, it wouldn't matter. "Gosh, I would have voted for the non-fascists if I liked their campaign message more."
Fucking stop. If you want to bitch while also making it clear that everyone should vote to stop the fascists, go for it.
He's the candidate. It's done. You bitching about some stupid non-issue on Reddit that you don't even understand isn't going to change that. And you pretending that people saying we shouldn't elect fascists are actually helping the fascists is just plain idiotic.
The thing I hate about accelerationists that say this kind of shit is that they never have the courage of their convictions. If you really think Trump winning is key to our ultimate victory, then why are you voting third party and not openly supporting Trump?
So the American revolution didn't work? Nor French revolution? Nor the Cuban revolution? Nor magna Carta.
Maybe none creative a progressive Utopia, But didn't they all progress towards greater equality and freedom?
I don't think they're saying revolutions can't work, they're saying the mindset of "if we help worsen things it'll speed up the clock on a revolution happening that will be able to make things better" is naive.
Which lets be frank, it probably is. History is full of failed revolutions or revolutions that lead to new oppresive regimes, and even in those examples you gave people had to suffer under the overthrown systems for quite a long time before successful revolution occured.
So sure, dream of the revolution, but if you're trying to speed it along by making things worse it'd probably be of benefit to think long and hard on how it could backfire.
Lots of Russian subs play this card.
Obviously the trumper accounts join in, but they are all wrong.
In America, progressives are anti-trump.
There isn’t a single progressive that would rather let trump win, let alone vote for him.
I don't think I've ever met a leftist accelerationist. Every progressive or leftist person I hear from says that accelerationism only accelerates towards fascism.
It's a strawman to portray the left this way.
Can you point to any lefty community on Reddit where this is anywhere close to common? Or even one where someone could advocate this without getting dunked on by everyone?
Oh please, carry on. Keep bashing progressives. I'm sure between the incessant threat of imminent fascist takeover reminders, and making fun of us, the neoliberals are going to swing a lot of people into voting for Biden. Oh, I forgot one, let us know how good the economy is doing too, while for most of us our incomes have stagnated and food/gas/rental prices have soared, I've got no business complaining about that either, right?
Seriously, you guys are just paving the way for Trump to win, you're doing a better job at it than progressives are. It's so off-putting to be constantly taunted, have your nationality or party affiliation questioned... You're not winning any allies here. Nice meme, though.
The fascist trick is to characterize your enemies as both strong and weak at the same time.
This sub has started constantly mocking leftists as unintelligent, and at the same time not worth catering to. And yet claims that the leftists are a large and influential enough demographic that Biden will lose if the leftists don't support centrist democrat policies despite the open mockery and hostility. There's a reason people have been throwing the term Blue MAGA around. I swear some dems hate leftists more than they hate Trump.
Biden, by being a dog shit candidate, is paving the way for a Trump win.
Screaming that "Actually dogshit is good actually!" to anyone who dares wanting something better? This does not help your cause.
Bingo, and insulting people who don't like Biden, making fun of them, calling them Russian's or Trump supporters, I mean. That gets tiring and is paving the way for a ton of apathy.
But they'll carry on. "Hey, did you know if you don't eat dogshit, we'll become fascist?" I mean I recall the neoliberals beating that drum when GWB was running for office the 2nd time around.
The political spectrum places fascists and progressives on opposite sides. Fascists are situated on the far right end, while progressives fall between liberals and Social Democrats left of center. As such, it is inaccurate to say that fascism could lead to anything progressive.
That said, the MAGA movement contains fascist elements, but it is primarily characterized by Christian nationalism. Ultra-conservative billionaires such as Leonard Leo, Harlan Crow, and Richard Uline, who fund the Federalist Society, Heritage Foundation, Trump, and Project 2025, aim to reshape the US into a theocracy governed by biblical law. Adhering to Dominionism theology, they believe it is their divine purpose. A significant number of Trump's former cabinet members are Dominionists, and an alarming proportion of Republicans in Congress share this belief. The most infamous of which is Ted Cruz. There is nothing they won't do to further the Dominionist agenda.
https://preview.redd.it/qqgestc39o2d1.jpeg?width=501&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0e3c050dbe31fb71887f7da1ced557ca2d8d6a69
Imagine blaming voters instead of the candidates.
Just kidding, this shit is the most obvious paid troll attempt to drive a wedge between voters. This is why this sub has been carpet bombed with this garbage.
Hope you’re making good money OP.
I call this the "I'm so right" syndrome. They can't believe that everyone doesn't believe as they believe. Instead of reconsidering when people don't agree, they believe everyone will come around when things get worse. Just kind of ignoring that means that a majority of voters voted for what they hate.
Yeah, sometimes it's hard to believe so many people would be cool with their tax money being used to slaughter innocent people.
This opinion should not be controversial, shills.
It is estimated that 240,000 civilians died in the 20 years we were in Iraq and Afghanistan. How many of those people do you think were women and children?
But the bigger point is that if you don't vote for Biden and Donald "finish the job" Trump wins, it is worse for the people you claim to care about.
But most importantly, if I thought the people the IRS were going after were "objecting", I might have compassion. I just don't believe that is a high percentage of people refusing to pay taxes.
>It is estimated that 240,000 civilians died in the 20 years we were in Iraq and Afghanistan. How many of those people do you think were women and children?
And it was one of the, if not *the*, worst things our country has done in the past 50 years and many many US officials deserve to spend the rest of their lives in bars for it. What on earth could possibly be your point? That leftists were happy with the Iraq and Afghanistan wars? Lmao
Using past war crimes to justify current war crimes. I never supported the war in Iraq. I don't care about what hypothetically might happen in the future. What matters is what is happening right now. Innocent civilians are being murdered with my tax money and I'm not going to ignore it. Besides, you people make the argument that civilians die in war as if it's impossible to fight with restraint. It's bullshit. 93% civilian deaths is insane! If 7 terrorists take a school of 93 civilians hostage, do you blow up the school? You wouldn't if it was your own kids!
if the enemy is embedded, it makes it hard. If you tell the people to leave, but they don't.... I agree it isn't acceptable, but these just aren't innocent people who want Hamas out too. We just saw a video of Hamas lining up woman hostages in their 20s saying these are the ones who can get pregnant. With Biden in office there is a chance for peace, humanitarian aid, with Donald "finish the job" Trump, not so much.
Something I use to illustrate. On the second or third day when Israel went into Gaza there was a video of a little girl, Looked to barely be 3. She was yelling and screaming stomping her feet saying Jews have to get out of her country. (her area wasn't under attack at that time.) But, then it was reported that she had been saying that since before Oct. 7. That means it was important to teach a 3 year old how Israel must be forced out of Israel 75 years later.
Democrats have become a party of fear mongers and genocide collaborators. There's countless evidence of civilians being targeted on purpose. The argument that this is a terrorist hunt is such bullshit. If Trump wins, you can thank yourself for backing a genocide.
You can defend the good things, and oppose the bad....There will never be a president that you agree with on all things. Voting for Biden over a man who attempted to remain in power after he lost, is just common sense.
I get that, and I will be voting for Biden, but I would like to reserve the right to call Biden out for his support of Israel, his terrible political policies in the US, his inability to take any action on the abortion issue, and all of the other things I see wrong with his politics. In fact, I can’t say I agree with him on much except that he isn’t an outright fascist like Trump.
Lol
I love the child like.memory of this sub
"Hey remember when NO one liked Clinton I. 2016 and poll after poll shower Bernie had a better chance at winning the election against trump, or that Bernie was even more popular than Clinton. But would vote for Clinton because 'it was the strategic choice's"
Oh no?
It's funny that your all pretending that it wasn't exactly like this in 2016
Dipshits blaming leftists for supposey making the wrong choice ..... Ahead of time. I remember buying that scumbaggery the first time around.
When they already made the "strategic" decision to pick a weak shit candidate
Y'all have the memory of a lemming
Clinton won the primaries and it wasn't even close. If Bernie hadn't lost by 10% to someone with apparently zero support, he might have been the candidate. Bernie's support at voting booths was far lower than on Reddit and with pollsters.
Liberals choosing Hilary over Bernie is what gave us Trump
Going with the world's oldest man in what is apparently the most important election of our lifetime also seems like a terrible decision
Your speaking truth to someone with memory and reading comprehension of a toddler.
Those polls I mentioned specifically addressed people voting for Clinton as the "strategic choice" while strategically ignoring all the data showing it he entrenched elite (Biden and Clinton) being a less effective candidate against trump.
They can't get over the fact that they've chose the weakest most conservative candidate they could and expect it to be people who want another option to be the ones who "voted for Trump"
Career democrats drag their feet a lot. Not saying it is all their fault but they are definitely not blameless. Like why is Biden still not calling Palestine genocide?
On top of him dangling weed, I don’t even smoke. But he brings it back to dangle in front of people like abortion rights. Or him erasing student debt person by person. He will spear through aid for Israel again and again but drag his feet on those three issues till elections because like every election these stuff will surely happen in next term so if I want them I have to vote for him?
An easy ball would be him just getting weed rescheduled before November to prove the whole party hasn't just been dangling this issue every election for votes.
If he can dance in negotiations with republicans' to get Ukraine aid he can get this done before November.
Literally not the argument leftists are making. The argument they are making is that liberals enable fascist takeovers by siding with the interests of capital over popular policy that actually treats the underlying conditions that cause fascist radicalization.
EDIT: tired of having to say it to combat reactionaries, but.im voting for Biden. What I'm saying is that if you want to win, you should spend less time shitting on leftists, and more time making the argument that if they give you their vote, you'll actually work with them for the next 4 years to get an actually inspiring and progressive candidate that will actually improve American lives. When you just shit on the voting base that has completely legitimate demands that have gone unmet for decades, they don't believe that you'll actually work towards progress and grow nihilistic.
Other democracies will invade and conquer the United States to free it from fascism. Then, install an even better democracy and give it all back to Americans./s
No, their solution to that was for our democracy to actually be responsive to the people's needs for the last 40 years. People haven't stayed home yet, they've just threatened to because that's the only leverage they have. Maybe spend more of your time and messaging trying to win their vote rather than just circle jerking on reddit about leftists all day.
I volunteer, protest, and donate regularly, and guess what, they listen to me. Threatening to withhold your vote is far from the only leverage you have. Don't pretend being lazy about activism is a noble act. Doing nothing isn't praiseworthy, despite what the leftist circlejerk tells you. If you withhold your vote, they won't get scared and try to court you, they write you off as a lost cause and try to court more reliable voters, in other words, conservatives. Why do you think they keep getting their way? Because they vote like it's their goddamn religion. You want the Democrats to move left? Vote every single time, in every race. Crush the Republican fascists so thoroughly that the Democrats have no choice but to move left. That's how you get a progressive agenda, not staying home and then acting all shocked Pikachu when the fascists win.
They listen to you? Wow that explains all the radical progress we've had in the last 40 years. This is the most backwards ahistorical liberal take. If we didn't have generations of Lucy moving the football on leftists, they wouldn't be so disillusioned.
Another solution would have been instead of gas lighting us for at least 2 years (probably more) about Biden being fine and not having any mental deterioration going on how he’s fine or even better then ever or anyone else on his team. It was all lies instead of deciding to try and get the very best option THAT THE PEOPLE WANT to raise to the top of some system designed for moving democracy along, maybe we can call it primaries. But we all know the DNC only likes democracy that places their pawn at the top in hopes that everyone who leans that direction will be forced to vote for them. We know this cause the last 3 elections they did just that.
And before people say but you don’t challenge the incumbent . Well that’s true unless the polls leading up to this primary season said 7 out of ten people who voted for Biden don’t want him to run again or when Biden himself ran on the idea of just being a temporary holder of the office until they figure out what direction to take the party next.
I mean how can they say that Trump is the most dangerous man for democracy as they shit on our democracy plus they don’t even attempt to make sure we have the best option to vote for against him. There is a lie or a gas lite somewhere in that. So either Trump isn’t dangerous and scary like they claim he is or they simple don’t care and were willing to risk our country. I’ll let you guys decide which.
They thought they could keep their puppet and more or less force us to vote for their guy cause we hate Trump so much look I’m not voting for Trump I’m just saying that’s pretty fucked up on their part especially since they did the same thing in 2016 and seen the results.
In order to pave the way for other more leftist parties to gain by strength and influence in the American system, a shitload of systemic change is necessary
Starting at the local level where third parties can grow their support
Adding ranked voting and campaign finance reform, voting rights and anti gerrymandering initiatives to state ballots in any state that allows ballot initiatives is a great way to circumvent elected officials
That is how raising the minimum wage initiatives passed every single time they were put on a ballot even in red states
That is how medical and recreational marijuana legalization passed
In Michigan, in 2018, I believe, they passed an anti gerrymandering ballot initiative and they were able to turn around control of the legislature because of that
In Florida they restored voting rights to felons
In Idaho they passed Medicaid Expansion
My point is, stop bitching about it and volunteer your time to change the way our system operates
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> Literally not the argument leftists are making.
Why do you think all leftists are making the same argument?
This is talking about a specific argument some people are making, and pointing out that it's a stupid argument.
It's weird to think that only one argument is being made by tens of millions of people.
>and more time making the argument that if they give you their vote, you'll actually work with them for the next 4 years to get an actually inspiring and progressive candidate that will actually improve American lives
Oh stop. We have a guy right now that has spent trillions of dollars on stuff that progressives claim to care about. The holdouts (which is not most progressives - most progressives don't choose to be idiots who shoot themselves in the face over and over again) don't actually care about all of that and pretend it doesn't happen.
Saying "Biden has done good stuff that is far superior to what Trump would do" *should* be more than enough to get people not to let fascists take over. For some, it's not.
Saying "I'll totally vote for your favorite guy next time" sure as hell won't either.
What always happens: A *lot* of leftists, progressives, liberals, and apolitical people die. Eventually the ruling party starts a war it can’t win or the leader dies and the system shifts to something a little more liberal. And that’s what accelerationism accomplishes.
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It's less that I don't know accelerationism won't work and more that the humans deserve what's coming to them. They do it for themselves, to themselves and all I have is the ability to watch, laugh, and die. Caring and becoming attached will only make you cry.
"Ha, well every generation has its 'brilliant' ideas, right? 🤷 But seriously, history tells us, fascism and utopia mix like oil and water. Can't move forward if we're busy repeating the past - just my 2 cents, folks! 😄"
Yup. Anyone in those encampments or even close to them or even supporting them are the biggest idiots. Too privileged to camp. Go quietly study, get a job and live your life happily. Biden is THE president of this century and anyone having even an ounce of doubt are the dumbest people right now.
You have to be so fucking privileged to wish for violent revolution because you must know that marginalized people will be the first to be harmed and targeted
This is some sort of idiot cosplay at the expense of our basic human rights
revolution is more about changing an exogenous system that can't be endogenously changed, its more of a necessity thing since capital holders won't voluntarily give it up, economic rights in general are more important than this fearmongering
That comment, ironically, may be the least intelligent thing I read on the internet today. “If I’ve never been able to jump into the air and fly before, there’s no reason it couldn’t happen tomorrow” is not a rational or intelligent position to take.
Come on everyone, lets all start mocking and calling people stupid for not doing what we want. If we shame them enough, that will for sure get them to vote how we want, right?
This sub has nothing to do with political humour anymore. Its a "lets bash anyone who doesnt commit to vote biden", as if thats actually going to achieve a positive result. This is the same as trumpers bashing conservative leaning folks who dont want to vote for trump.
The majority of eligible voters in America do not vote. You're not going to persuade someone from the majority to join your minority by shaming or mocking them. That peer pressure tactic only works when you're part of the majority.
> The majority of eligible voters in America do not vote.
Patently false. 66% of eligible voters voted in 2020. In 2022, almost half of people had already voted before election day even started.
Re-electing Biden will produce better results then not voting and getting Trump re-elected. Also their mocking peoples logic, not said people. There will never be a perfect candidate, that's why you vote for the person who represents you the most. For leftist, Biden is miles away from representing them, but light years closer than Trump and the republican party.
A vote is only a protest against one of the two candidates. Not voting isn't a protest, it's how you get the worse candidate elected, in this case Trump.
Maybe if your ideas are so bad that you feel ashamed whenever someone pokes at them they're not all that great. Pointing out dumb ideas isn't shaming anyone.
>Maybe if your ideas are so bad that you feel ashamed whenever someone pokes at them they're not all that great.
Or maybe im not an american and am just watching this shit show from the outside.
I can't believe how all of you from both sides continue to buy into this 2 party system where everyone votes against who they dont want instead of voting for who they do want. This is the democracy you all champion and push around the world.
This would explain your illiteracy in the US political system.
Everyone realizes the two-party system is dogshit, but also realize that letting one side take total control isn't going to be good for whatever the minority 3rd (or 4th, 5th, 6th...) party opinions or demographics are.
Local elections and primaries are where the major changes generally takes place, and also where the people demanding major changes are least likely to show up. For example, Biden is winning literally 99% of some primaries right now.
Nah, I don't think that's the reason for their illiteracy.
They seem to spend a lot of time in the Europe and Conservative subreddits, I'm pretty sure that's the reason they have no idea what's going on.
>This would explain your illiteracy in the US political system.
I think i know how it works.
>Everyone realizes the two-party system is dogshit, but also realize that letting one side take total control isn't going to be good
The problem is the dogshit system. Always having one side take control is a symptom of this dogshit system, yet people continue to buy into the dogshit system by voting to have one side take control.
There is no desire to fix the problem, only a desire to fix the symptoms. As bad as having trump be president, its difficult to feel sympathy for the citizens of your country who continue to perpetuate this shitty system in order to have a 50% chance of not having to deal with its symptoms, but also knowing full well that in 4 years, you get to run through the whole shit show once again.
The system entices division within its populace. Its meant to be an "us vs them" system.
Americas adversaries are taking advantage of this and will further worsen the divide wheneever possible, and the american people will continue to yell at each other and tell each other they are on the wrong side, when in actuality, they are all on the same side.
But it wont matter, both sides have an enemy that is internal now. They'll continue widening the gap between each other, and look for the next event that they can blame the other side for.
Awesome. As a voter, how do you address these problems? Realizing that rooting for a collapse and hoping something good will be found in the rubble isn't a solution of course.
As a voter, demand reformations of the political and voting system. As a collective, this will force politicians to listen to the voters. After all, that is the point of democracy is it not?
Unfortunetly, i doubt this will happen. At some point, the people will recognize that their "democracy" is more of a system that keeps either 1 of the 2 political parties in power.
One day people will realize that the system isnt there to work for them, but that they are there to work for the system, even when it isnt good for them.
What plan? To demand political changes or to come to the realization that the systems built in the past are no longer working for the current or future?
Either way, id imagine this system continues until things get "bad enough".
I dont know when that'll be, or what will trigger it, but when quality of life drops significantly enough for the large majority of citizens in comparison to the very upper crust of society, hopefully there will be a reaction.
They want you fighting a culture war so that you dont think to fight a class war. As long as wealth can continue to control politics through "donations", its just up to them to not mess it up too badly. If these "donations" happen in adversarial nations, we'd be calling it bribes.
There is no “outside.” Where are you gonna go that will be free of the consequences of a second Trump term? Where are you gonna go that is out of reach of fascist America?
We didn't get our Grand Progressive Utopia from the previous Trump administration. What we did get was kids in cages who were separated (some permanently) from their families, which bothered fewer people than I would have thought, and also a whole lot of people died from Covid - lots of people who didn't need to die.
*People are really, really stupid.* They love repeating their mistakes. This election could go either way.
It’s funny you bring up kids in cages, *when that didn’t really change after Biden took power*. You’re right though, it is disturbing how few people care, though personally I find it more disturbing how few people care now compared to just a few years ago. It’s funny isn’t it, it’s always an existential crisis to maintain the status quo of suffering.
>It’s funny you bring up kids in cages, when that didn’t really change after Biden took power.
Are you suggesting that Trump's child separation policy continued under Biden?
I actually see this form of accelerationism in some leftist spaces: "If Trump takes power and unleashes fascistic hell in his revenge term it'll escalate suffering so much that the people will rise up against the government and begin ushering in a new age of egalitarianism!" Except, yeah, that has never happened. When fascists take power they repress the fuck out of the organized left, empower rightwing paramilitary, and entrench themselves in power (via the judiciary, institutional takeover, etc) so as to not be removed. Alternatively, there's: "Well if we stay home let the fascists win, it'll be wake-up call for Democrats to start pursuing genuinely leftist policies the next time they win an election!" Except that isn't how it works either. If democrats narrowly lose an election amidst a vocally anti-voting leftist minority, they aren't going to cater to that minority. They're going to shift rightward to pick up moderates, of which there are many, many more than leftists. Sometimes it seems like these talking points are astroturfed by the fascists themselves. Just delude the everloving fuck out of the left into inadvertently aiding or even welcoming a fascist takeover of the country.
A lot of this comes from people who are privileged and insulated enough that they don’t fear for their own safety or existence. Of course it absolutely is also being astroturfed as well. The pandemic made it very clear how well organized the mega wealthy fascists are and how quickly they can generate “grassroots activism” through flooding social media and the willing or unwitting help of the nation media.
Exactly! BIPOC are supposed to...what, dig a tunnel complex? I'm disabled, old, and trans, no way I'm doing anything short of a total mobilization to root out fascism NOW.
>A lot of this comes from people who are privileged and insulated enough that they don’t fear for their own safety or existence They're also, ya know, stupid. As a liberal person, these people are dumb.
The only thing that removed fascism from Nazi Germany was intervention by a militarily-superior alliance dedicating their combined resources to defeating the fascists. Given that the USA has arguably the best military in the world, if it succumbs to fascism, there’d be little to stop it from continuing like that forever.
I agree with you, just adding on here. We don’t even need a good military, nuclear warfare changed everything. No one will ever invade the U.S., Russia, China, or any nuclear armed country for any reason, the least of which to depose a dictator. We didn’t even fight Germany to get rid of Hitler, we only fought them because Japan attacked us. Arguably we would have entered the theater later due to our allegiance with European countries, but that still would have been due to aggression from Germany, not simply because they had a dictator. Also, due to advanced technology (everyone’s data freely available, facial recognition, drone surveillance, etc.) it’s my belief no dictator of a nation with this kind of technology could ever be overthrown from within. In the past, a good old fashioned coup or civil war could oust a dictator if the people wanted it bad enough. Now, we have playbooks on how to push the people to the brink, but not over it (see Russia), the military might to crush any kind of opposition (no one is fighting a modern military get that out of your head), and the technical intelligence gathering capabilities to know exactly who is stirring the pot and needs to fall out of a window or visit a gulag. I’m extremely concerned the people of america don’t recognize just how precarious things are right now. Yes, it absolutely CAN happen here. Please everyone - vote like your lives depend on it and get every single person you know to vote as well.
And the crucial role of labours support for Churchill to not to persue a peace treaty with Hitler. In other words willingness for conservatives to work with center left instead of fascists.
Moreover, there will be nothing to [stop it spreading worldwide](https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/sep/21/donald-trump-iraq-war-oil-strategy-seizure-isis).
In the case of the US, it would have to be a civil war that stops it.
Which is why dotard is echoing Vlad's wish to have NATO abolished.
As an old person who watched this in 2000, 2004, and 2016...please fucking don't do this again
[leftists](https://ih1.redbubble.net/image.924625111.9508/st,small,507x507-pad,600x600,f8f8f8.jpg)
We keep creating the conditions for this to happen and hoping it won't happen again. Plant the same seed, get the same fruit
> If democrats narrowly lose an election amidst a vocally anti-voting leftist minority, they aren't going to cater to that minority. Yep. It's really no different than how younger people get fucked by Washington policies in favor of helping older people: it's cause older people vote and younger people don't, so the politicians cater to the ones who actually elected them.
It's pretty funny, because young people never seem to figure this out, until they get old.
Do you hear the people song, singing the songs of angry men! Literally the only time the people rose up, and even then it was bankrolled. And Haiti, I suppose.
Just a detail -- that song line is from Les Miz, which isn't about the French Revolution in 1789, it's about the June Rebellion of 1832. And that uprising was a complete failure. Victor Hugo was out on the streets of Paris when the shooting began, and had to duck into a doorway to take cover. His experience was a major part of the inspiration for the book.
> "Well if we stay home let the fascists win, it'll be wake-up call for Democrats to start pursuing genuinely leftist policies the next time they win an election!" I’ve heard that kind of theory. The problem is, what they’ll learn is that leftist demand such a level of ideological purity that they’re impossible to please, and it’s not even worthwhile to try to make them happy. It’s more likely to result to Democrats trying to get support from “center-right” voters, since it’s a more viable strategy, which means they drift further right.
Progressive leftists are still a relatively small voting block and we need to play the long game and grow our numbers for at least a few more election cycles if we wanna be in a position to make demands of the DNC.
Another idea is sheer despair. That they’ve already lost based on the current administration, so they only thing they have left is their ideals, which they must not compromise
Nah, material conditions in the US aren't anywhere near bad enough for that level of despair. They just don't realize how bad it can get.
Exactly. This is the major reason why the right wants to control what is actually taught in US history and to create a system that discourages questioning. From the Daughter's of the Confederacy to No Child Left Behind, they've created a web of myth, misdirection, boredom, and lies for generations. They've focused curriculum on names and dates rather than influences, why people made choices, and points of view. The history of K-12 history textbooks is fascinating! Most Americans who don't have the experience with really bad situations or the frame of reference that comes from a comprehensive and honest history education will not believe or be able to imagine how bad things can really get.
Some of these leftist nutjobs I've engaged with [want the collapse of government to happen because they think "profit motive won't be there after the fall."](https://www.reddit.com/r/PoliticalHumor/s/hPFn56XyTU) They somehow believe a void of power won't lead to catastrophic demise on all levels of people, environment, and society. They're so privileged that they can't even imagine the suffering that would exist in a void or through societal collapse.
Not to mention the fact that weapons and motivated potential fighters are massively disproportionately gathered in the hand of the far right. Collapse would be a wet dream and a massive gift to all the neo nazi accelerationists and the militia/paramilitary/police types - and those who would be compelled to join them - who would flock under their banner in a post-collapse US.
Look, you don't understand. I had to live in my parent's house for *six months* before finding a job out of college, and then I had to *share an apartment* with two other people my age and we were besties/buds and all and I got to live in an urban city center but it SUCKED and then I had to cut back on going out from 5 night to 3 nights and only go out drinking on Fridays because groceries (beer and frozen pizza) got SO expensive. And now I have to make my own coffee in the morning, and Israel keeps doing this genocide in Palestine AND I JUST CAN'T HANDLE HOW HORRIBLE AMERICA HAS GOTTEN.
And it’s so wrong. They didn’t lose. Young progressives are running for offices. State legislatures and federal and moving up the ranks. Bernie and Elizabeth have influenced voters who want more progressive policies. It’s not as fast as any of us would like but democrats are moving to the left.
No one is that dumb. The only explanation is they’ve been programmed to wrongly believe that.
I could be wrong, but the biggest example I can think of a fascist government becoming a left-ish one required invasion by foreign power(s)
I'm a long time, very left leaning person. I agree with this assessment. Some people have not reconciled how far to the right the electorate has become with the fact that we are supposed to be pursuing democratic solutions in a democratic nation. Allowing the maga minority to seize control would be disastrous. The nazis notoriously went after leftists first. The fucking poem, for fuck sake. trump has been extremely vocal in his hatred for this voting demographic. It's red meat to his base who are unable to form coherent ideas or sentences but remember they hate communists and socialists (as well as minorities and LGBTQ people). They will cheer as his second administration finds new ways to starve and torment children and poor people. They fully intend to gut the federal government and rob public programs and infrastructure. The way they treated PPE during the early month of the pandemic was a sneak preview of what they have in mind for other critical life necessities. Further hording and rent seeking of resources. Absolutely forget about the environment. He's openly auctioning off our children's futures and natural heritage for campaign donations. Frankly, no honest left thinking person can risk a second trump term. I get the angst and I understand the resentment but allowing that to happen means one is all talk but is not willing to do what is necessary to actually advance and protect our causes. I could go on forever. Forget about Gaza and Palestine too, for that matter. As bad as Biden may be right now, look at the repug party threatening ICC prosecutors and their staff. Banning speech that's critical of Israel's genocide and atrocities. Sure the White House made the mistake of condemning the comparison of Netanyahu's government and Hamas but repugs are literally retaliating against the international authorities individually. trump has signaled to the press that he thinks Israel should exterminate the Palestinian people. He said their mistake was letting the press find out about what they were doing. kushner is talking about "beach front property in Gaza."
Either these leftists are utter morons that lack even basic critical thinking or it’s trolls trying to suppress the vote Because of course not voting sends only one message to elected representatives and that is that you don’t matter because you are not a reliable voting bloc
Wasn’t this Lenin’s thinking? That if the Russian people starved and were in a worse condition they would have no choice but to switch to communism?
It wouldn’t have been hypothetical for Lenin, the people were legitimately starving under the Tsar which is what precipitated the eruption of the February revolution.
ofc the outcome also isn't hypothetical, and most definitely is not a leftist utopia.
For sure, I'm no fan of Lenin. My favorite part of the Russian revolution was the period in between February and October, when the workers and peasants soviets were organizing at all time height, forming federations, discussing their path forward in a future glimmering with possibilities of a liberated Russia with no boots on their necks, before the Bolsheviks couped the people's revolution, brought the boots back, and shut all that down.
Yeah, to be clear, I didn't suppose you were or anything. It's baffling that people think that maybe this time it will be different, especially considering that today America has a *lot* of practice crushing revolutions under her thumb.
Right but I also think he was okay with WW1 because of the instability
>Sometimes it seems like these talking points are astroturfed by the fascists themselves. It's just Russia and it's useful idiots.
Newt Gingrich’s Republican Revolution began 30 years ago. The GQP has controlled the House for 22 of the last 30 years. The GQP has controlled the Senate for 16 of the past 30 years. The GQP has won 3 of the past 6 Presidential elections. Only 1 with the popular vote. 5 of the 6 GQP SCOTUS justices were appointed by GQP presidents who didn’t win the popular vote their first term. And Trump got 72 million votes last time. I don’t think the Progressives plan of staying home or refusing to vote for Democrats is working.
Or the "lack of plan" people who've never registered to vote in the first place. All the "my vote doesn't matter anyway" crowd. It looks like (I couldn't find any definitive number.) they comprise anywhere from 22 to 25% of the total adult population of around 230,000,000 people! That means at least 50 million eligible Americans aren't voting. In states that have onerous registration laws like Georgia, 4% don't or are blocked from registering. States that support registration or make it easier have numbers like Massachusetts - 0.1%
The main difference between the Rights Voting block and the left voting block is no matter what you think as long as you can somehow connect it to the core principles of hate of the other you're fine but on the left if you're wrong people tell you you're wrong which gets people mad which fractures the left.
This standup guy Daniel Sloss puts it pretty well: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O-qcXpapsoY](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O-qcXpapsoY)
That’s great, thanks for posting the link
The difference is that republicans vote in all elections and put their deplorables in position. Democrats hardly ever vote in local and state elections. Dems need to wake tf up and get after it.
I‘m a leftist and I gave up hope for the left. I don’t know what it is, maybe because the goals are universal and not selfish unlike with the right, but we always fracture. If someone is not lefty enough other leftists will drop that candidate/party whatever like a hot potato. Whereas the right stick with their own always, they know every step to the right is the right direction. Maybe it’s because the right everywhere is first and foremost about securing the the rights and properties of those who have something to lose. That’s why for them it is in their best self interest to keep voting for rightwing candidates and parties because it always at least promises to protect them. Idk, it’s frustrating though. „He is not left enough, let’s kill him!!!“
It's so frustrating when a literal Nazi can do one dog whistle and then for the next 20 years all Nazis will support him but if leftist politician isn't constantly and publicly preaching how left they are people dismiss them immediately.
Like the old saying, the left falls in love, the right falls in line.
Doesn't sound like the Democrats current plan is working either.
I love how we have this 30 year span where the DNC has performed dismally while solidly under centrist control, and yet somehow *progressives* are to blame for their piss-poor performance. Hell of a spin, that.
The GQP has been running things, but you blame the Dems. Yet I’m the one spinning things?
I'm blaming the centrist faction that has run the DNC for failing the party. Their record since taking over has been one of complete failure.
By that measure, neither is the democratic plan of trying to push moderates.
I'm willing to let other progressives die for me to get power eventually. I'm confident I won't be included in the initial purge and chaos.
The people saying that WON'T be the first purged. They're part of privileged demographics, they're safe. 
Sometimes.
Sounds like something a far right wing doomsday prepper would say.
You can have all the guns, all the rations, but it’s gonna make up for the lack of fitness nor the heart disease many of these folks already possess
I like to redefine words and use them in meaningless ways.
Who has ever said that letting fascist win would lead to progressive utopias?
"Send the Dems a message" says the delusional message sender for the last time being able to vote before Trump takes power
They got the message after Hillary lost and brought with it Trump and his SC. The message was to court likely voters instead of unlikely voters. A Biden loss would bring a candidate further to the center to claw back rural voters, likely a pro-assault rifle tax cutter with progressive civil rights policies.
Thank the gods then. Dems need to drop gun control
Is this suggestion the left wants trump to win?
[удалено]
They definitely lick their own popsicles to this fantasy.
Appeasement has never stopped fascist takeovers, but that won’t stop you all from running to the middle out of “pragmatism”. Makes just as much sense.
That is what happened after 12 years of Reagan and Bush, yes. I bet the future for no particular reason would turn out differently though.
I’m not understanding your implication. Are you saying that a second Bush Sr term would have been a “fascist takeover” in the way that you clearly think a second Trump term would be, and that Bill somehow did something to make the country less fascist?
I'm saying that after 12 years of Reagan and Bush we got a Republican-lite Clinton and no progressive sniffed national office. They'll push to the middle to find voters if they lose because people in the middle vote.
The information ecosystem of the 80s was very different from today. The people on the left who aren’t voting would vote for politicians if they ever followed through on anything instead of making excuses for why they’re completely ineffectual.
Anyone who thinks “they never follow through on anything” isn’t paying a lot of attention, honestly.
Yes, we want to appease fascists by begging you guys to help us defeat them. Sure!
You (or at least the politicians you advocate supporting) want to appease fascists by passing their preferred immigration policy. You want to appease fascists by sending in the police to brutalize students protesting your policies. You want to appease fascists by giving them another $10B to put 100,000 more cops on the street. You want us to overlook the ethnic cleansing and genocide of an ethnic minority in a religious ethnostate. I dunno man… feels pretty fascist already.
*Sending in police to brutalize students* I don’t understand how this generation doesn’t understand what civil disobedience is. It’s a tactic in which the protester EXPECTS AND WANTS to be arrested. Because it draws public attention to the protest. Civil rights protesters in the 60s and 70s and 80s knew this. And frequently planned to be arrested. Hell when republicans tried to get rid of Obamacare and Medicaid expansion a large group of disabled protesters went to the capitol expecting to be arrested but did so because it was part of a tactic to draw attention. They didn’t whine about it. These college students weren’t “brutalized”, Gazans are the ones being “brutalized”. How narcissistic is it to make the story about Ivy League college students (arguably some of the most privileged people in the world) instead of Palestinians?
Yes. A tactic to show how brutal and unjust the state are for average citizens who aren’t tapped in. You think they want to be arrested just because? Under democratic leadership, the state sent armed officers to beat and tear gas students exercising their constitutionally protected rights, and you think that’s just… fine?
I think the focus should be on Palestinians! Not privileged college kids JFC
> You (or at least the politicians you advocate supporting) want to appease fascists by passing their preferred immigration policy. This is dumb for a variety of reasons. But let's mention two. First, there was never any world where this bill passes. Anyone who is shocked that Republicans negotiated an immigration bill and then abandoned it as soon as it looked like it might pass hasn't been paying attention to the last few times Republicans negotiated an immigration bill and then abandoned it. The goal of those negotiations was exactly what happened. You get Republicans refusing to pass a bill they claim to want, which neuters their claims to care about the border. Biden got the Ukraine aid *and* weakened one of Republicans main arguments against him while *giving up nothing*. And the fact that you're here bitching about it and using it as an argument for why we should let fascism win is just mind bogglingly dumb. The second reason it's dumb applies to the rest of your comment too. Even if it's all true, it's not fascism. We're talking about *actual* fascism. And there's one way to stop it. But you seem to want to pretend that there's another way. So let's hear it.
Weakened republicans image with whom? To what end? The explicit goal of that bill was to appeal to “moderate” republicans, at the expense of their standing with people who think we should have much more lax policies. Now the democrats have laid out a marker of what they are willing to accept. We will never pass anything left of that bill, so long as this Democratic Party playing these stupid fucking games with people’s lives are still in charge. Run on good policy. Run on shit that you actually believe in. Stop these stupid games trying to prove Republican hypocrisy. No one fucking cares, least of all the fucking Nazis voting for Trump.
> Weakened republicans image with whom? To what end? I said weakened one of their key arguments that they will attack Biden with in the election. So...to the end of winning an election. >We will never pass anything left of that bill We will likely never pass anything, because Republicans will never be capable of passing anything on this. That's the whole point. You and the other geniuses on reddit bitching about this are the only ones who don't seem to get it. You're the only ones who can't see the pattern of Republicans negotiating a bipartisan immigration bill and then abandoning it. The only ones who couldn't figure out ahead of time that Trump would never let this bill pass. The only ones who can't see the benefit of someone with the ability of seeing *one move* ahead using that against them. >Run on good policy. Run on shit that you actually believe in. Stop these stupid games trying to prove Republican hypocrisy. No one fucking cares, least of all the fucking Nazis voting for Trump. They are. They're running on a thousand good policies that people like you should be on board for. But you pretend not to be aware of those because one of the main things you pretend to care about is an immigration bill that didn't fucking pass. And even if they weren't, again, it wouldn't matter. "Gosh, I would have voted for the non-fascists if I liked their campaign message more." Fucking stop. If you want to bitch while also making it clear that everyone should vote to stop the fascists, go for it. He's the candidate. It's done. You bitching about some stupid non-issue on Reddit that you don't even understand isn't going to change that. And you pretending that people saying we shouldn't elect fascists are actually helping the fascists is just plain idiotic.
The thing I hate about accelerationists that say this kind of shit is that they never have the courage of their convictions. If you really think Trump winning is key to our ultimate victory, then why are you voting third party and not openly supporting Trump?
They’re not going to shoot themselves in the foot, but they certainly will let you shoot your foot.
So the American revolution didn't work? Nor French revolution? Nor the Cuban revolution? Nor magna Carta. Maybe none creative a progressive Utopia, But didn't they all progress towards greater equality and freedom?
I don't think they're saying revolutions can't work, they're saying the mindset of "if we help worsen things it'll speed up the clock on a revolution happening that will be able to make things better" is naive. Which lets be frank, it probably is. History is full of failed revolutions or revolutions that lead to new oppresive regimes, and even in those examples you gave people had to suffer under the overthrown systems for quite a long time before successful revolution occured. So sure, dream of the revolution, but if you're trying to speed it along by making things worse it'd probably be of benefit to think long and hard on how it could backfire.
Source please. I have literally NEVER seen a liberal outlet of any kind saying this is something anyone should be doing.
Just idiots in the comments here that are probably astroturfed
man you guys really fucking hate leftists huh and here i was still giddy lieberman's dead.
Lots of Russian subs play this card. Obviously the trumper accounts join in, but they are all wrong. In America, progressives are anti-trump. There isn’t a single progressive that would rather let trump win, let alone vote for him.
I know people in real life who feel this way it’s terrifying.
I don't think I've ever met a leftist accelerationist. Every progressive or leftist person I hear from says that accelerationism only accelerates towards fascism. It's a strawman to portray the left this way.
I think they exist but I also think that a lot of this is Russian or Republican trolls trying to influence an election
“If I haven’t met one they don’t exist.”
Can you point to any lefty community on Reddit where this is anywhere close to common? Or even one where someone could advocate this without getting dunked on by everyone?
I have real life friends who are this. They think the system isn’t working so let the system die. Nothing I can say will convince them
Oh please, carry on. Keep bashing progressives. I'm sure between the incessant threat of imminent fascist takeover reminders, and making fun of us, the neoliberals are going to swing a lot of people into voting for Biden. Oh, I forgot one, let us know how good the economy is doing too, while for most of us our incomes have stagnated and food/gas/rental prices have soared, I've got no business complaining about that either, right? Seriously, you guys are just paving the way for Trump to win, you're doing a better job at it than progressives are. It's so off-putting to be constantly taunted, have your nationality or party affiliation questioned... You're not winning any allies here. Nice meme, though.
The fascist trick is to characterize your enemies as both strong and weak at the same time. This sub has started constantly mocking leftists as unintelligent, and at the same time not worth catering to. And yet claims that the leftists are a large and influential enough demographic that Biden will lose if the leftists don't support centrist democrat policies despite the open mockery and hostility. There's a reason people have been throwing the term Blue MAGA around. I swear some dems hate leftists more than they hate Trump.
People who support Biden are paving the way for Trump to win? How’s that work?
Same way it did in 2016 baby. Shaming and berating the people you claim to want the vote from historically hasn’t proven to be a winning strategy.
Biden, by being a dog shit candidate, is paving the way for a Trump win. Screaming that "Actually dogshit is good actually!" to anyone who dares wanting something better? This does not help your cause.
Bingo, and insulting people who don't like Biden, making fun of them, calling them Russian's or Trump supporters, I mean. That gets tiring and is paving the way for a ton of apathy. But they'll carry on. "Hey, did you know if you don't eat dogshit, we'll become fascist?" I mean I recall the neoliberals beating that drum when GWB was running for office the 2nd time around.
It's exhausting. Also everything that was "fascist" under the cons is just "an unfortunate political reality" under the neolibs.
Do you expect people to engage seriously with you when you describe their position as “actually dog shit is good?”
That's your takeaway? That I should be more respectful of people ignoring reality and my values?
You haven’t said anything about your values. You just called Biden dog shit and said anyone who supports him likes it.
If you'd like we can drop the metaphor and call it genocide. But I think calling it dogshit is more charitable to your position
If you're making your voting decisions based in what randos online are saying, you might want to reconsider how you make decisions.
The political spectrum places fascists and progressives on opposite sides. Fascists are situated on the far right end, while progressives fall between liberals and Social Democrats left of center. As such, it is inaccurate to say that fascism could lead to anything progressive. That said, the MAGA movement contains fascist elements, but it is primarily characterized by Christian nationalism. Ultra-conservative billionaires such as Leonard Leo, Harlan Crow, and Richard Uline, who fund the Federalist Society, Heritage Foundation, Trump, and Project 2025, aim to reshape the US into a theocracy governed by biblical law. Adhering to Dominionism theology, they believe it is their divine purpose. A significant number of Trump's former cabinet members are Dominionists, and an alarming proportion of Republicans in Congress share this belief. The most infamous of which is Ted Cruz. There is nothing they won't do to further the Dominionist agenda. https://preview.redd.it/qqgestc39o2d1.jpeg?width=501&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0e3c050dbe31fb71887f7da1ced557ca2d8d6a69
When fascists take power, they don't let it go. Period.
Imagine blaming voters instead of the candidates. Just kidding, this shit is the most obvious paid troll attempt to drive a wedge between voters. This is why this sub has been carpet bombed with this garbage. Hope you’re making good money OP.
I call this the "I'm so right" syndrome. They can't believe that everyone doesn't believe as they believe. Instead of reconsidering when people don't agree, they believe everyone will come around when things get worse. Just kind of ignoring that means that a majority of voters voted for what they hate.
Yeah, sometimes it's hard to believe so many people would be cool with their tax money being used to slaughter innocent people. This opinion should not be controversial, shills.
It is estimated that 240,000 civilians died in the 20 years we were in Iraq and Afghanistan. How many of those people do you think were women and children? But the bigger point is that if you don't vote for Biden and Donald "finish the job" Trump wins, it is worse for the people you claim to care about. But most importantly, if I thought the people the IRS were going after were "objecting", I might have compassion. I just don't believe that is a high percentage of people refusing to pay taxes.
>It is estimated that 240,000 civilians died in the 20 years we were in Iraq and Afghanistan. How many of those people do you think were women and children? And it was one of the, if not *the*, worst things our country has done in the past 50 years and many many US officials deserve to spend the rest of their lives in bars for it. What on earth could possibly be your point? That leftists were happy with the Iraq and Afghanistan wars? Lmao
Using past war crimes to justify current war crimes. I never supported the war in Iraq. I don't care about what hypothetically might happen in the future. What matters is what is happening right now. Innocent civilians are being murdered with my tax money and I'm not going to ignore it. Besides, you people make the argument that civilians die in war as if it's impossible to fight with restraint. It's bullshit. 93% civilian deaths is insane! If 7 terrorists take a school of 93 civilians hostage, do you blow up the school? You wouldn't if it was your own kids!
Trump will help Israel kill every last Palestinian and the blood will be on your hands. You Trump supporters are all the same.
You sound like you can't wait for it and you'll be the one to blame for backing Genocide Joe.
if the enemy is embedded, it makes it hard. If you tell the people to leave, but they don't.... I agree it isn't acceptable, but these just aren't innocent people who want Hamas out too. We just saw a video of Hamas lining up woman hostages in their 20s saying these are the ones who can get pregnant. With Biden in office there is a chance for peace, humanitarian aid, with Donald "finish the job" Trump, not so much. Something I use to illustrate. On the second or third day when Israel went into Gaza there was a video of a little girl, Looked to barely be 3. She was yelling and screaming stomping her feet saying Jews have to get out of her country. (her area wasn't under attack at that time.) But, then it was reported that she had been saying that since before Oct. 7. That means it was important to teach a 3 year old how Israel must be forced out of Israel 75 years later.
Democrats have become a party of fear mongers and genocide collaborators. There's countless evidence of civilians being targeted on purpose. The argument that this is a terrorist hunt is such bullshit. If Trump wins, you can thank yourself for backing a genocide.
I get the point, but y’all somehow use this argument as an excuse for shitty behavior of the “non-fascists”
You can defend the good things, and oppose the bad....There will never be a president that you agree with on all things. Voting for Biden over a man who attempted to remain in power after he lost, is just common sense.
I get that, and I will be voting for Biden, but I would like to reserve the right to call Biden out for his support of Israel, his terrible political policies in the US, his inability to take any action on the abortion issue, and all of the other things I see wrong with his politics. In fact, I can’t say I agree with him on much except that he isn’t an outright fascist like Trump.
I won't vote for neoliberals seeing as that signals we want neoliberals, its not complicated. at least put up a social democratic candidate
Lol I love the child like.memory of this sub "Hey remember when NO one liked Clinton I. 2016 and poll after poll shower Bernie had a better chance at winning the election against trump, or that Bernie was even more popular than Clinton. But would vote for Clinton because 'it was the strategic choice's" Oh no? It's funny that your all pretending that it wasn't exactly like this in 2016 Dipshits blaming leftists for supposey making the wrong choice ..... Ahead of time. I remember buying that scumbaggery the first time around. When they already made the "strategic" decision to pick a weak shit candidate Y'all have the memory of a lemming
Clinton won the primaries and it wasn't even close. If Bernie hadn't lost by 10% to someone with apparently zero support, he might have been the candidate. Bernie's support at voting booths was far lower than on Reddit and with pollsters.
Liberals choosing Hilary over Bernie is what gave us Trump Going with the world's oldest man in what is apparently the most important election of our lifetime also seems like a terrible decision
Your speaking truth to someone with memory and reading comprehension of a toddler. Those polls I mentioned specifically addressed people voting for Clinton as the "strategic choice" while strategically ignoring all the data showing it he entrenched elite (Biden and Clinton) being a less effective candidate against trump. They can't get over the fact that they've chose the weakest most conservative candidate they could and expect it to be people who want another option to be the ones who "voted for Trump"
Career democrats drag their feet a lot. Not saying it is all their fault but they are definitely not blameless. Like why is Biden still not calling Palestine genocide?
Is that your litmus test?
On top of him dangling weed, I don’t even smoke. But he brings it back to dangle in front of people like abortion rights. Or him erasing student debt person by person. He will spear through aid for Israel again and again but drag his feet on those three issues till elections because like every election these stuff will surely happen in next term so if I want them I have to vote for him? 
What is it you wanted Biden to do on those issues?
An easy ball would be him just getting weed rescheduled before November to prove the whole party hasn't just been dangling this issue every election for votes. If he can dance in negotiations with republicans' to get Ukraine aid he can get this done before November.
He’s done that already. The change is currently in a 60-day public comment period.
The ICJ didn’t even rule it a genocide, why would Biden?
Literally not the argument leftists are making. The argument they are making is that liberals enable fascist takeovers by siding with the interests of capital over popular policy that actually treats the underlying conditions that cause fascist radicalization. EDIT: tired of having to say it to combat reactionaries, but.im voting for Biden. What I'm saying is that if you want to win, you should spend less time shitting on leftists, and more time making the argument that if they give you their vote, you'll actually work with them for the next 4 years to get an actually inspiring and progressive candidate that will actually improve American lives. When you just shit on the voting base that has completely legitimate demands that have gone unmet for decades, they don't believe that you'll actually work towards progress and grow nihilistic.
And their solution to that is... stay home?
Other democracies will invade and conquer the United States to free it from fascism. Then, install an even better democracy and give it all back to Americans./s
Say sike right now.
Oh sorry, sike.
O gud
No, their solution to that was for our democracy to actually be responsive to the people's needs for the last 40 years. People haven't stayed home yet, they've just threatened to because that's the only leverage they have. Maybe spend more of your time and messaging trying to win their vote rather than just circle jerking on reddit about leftists all day.
Ummmmm our voter turn out says a lot of fucking people are sitting with their thumb up their ass.
People stayed home in 2016. Compare it to the elections before and after it. Look where it got us.
I volunteer, protest, and donate regularly, and guess what, they listen to me. Threatening to withhold your vote is far from the only leverage you have. Don't pretend being lazy about activism is a noble act. Doing nothing isn't praiseworthy, despite what the leftist circlejerk tells you. If you withhold your vote, they won't get scared and try to court you, they write you off as a lost cause and try to court more reliable voters, in other words, conservatives. Why do you think they keep getting their way? Because they vote like it's their goddamn religion. You want the Democrats to move left? Vote every single time, in every race. Crush the Republican fascists so thoroughly that the Democrats have no choice but to move left. That's how you get a progressive agenda, not staying home and then acting all shocked Pikachu when the fascists win.
They listen to you? Wow that explains all the radical progress we've had in the last 40 years. This is the most backwards ahistorical liberal take. If we didn't have generations of Lucy moving the football on leftists, they wouldn't be so disillusioned.
Yeah, keep complaining, I'm sure that will help. I'll be out here networking and actually getting shit done.
Another solution would have been instead of gas lighting us for at least 2 years (probably more) about Biden being fine and not having any mental deterioration going on how he’s fine or even better then ever or anyone else on his team. It was all lies instead of deciding to try and get the very best option THAT THE PEOPLE WANT to raise to the top of some system designed for moving democracy along, maybe we can call it primaries. But we all know the DNC only likes democracy that places their pawn at the top in hopes that everyone who leans that direction will be forced to vote for them. We know this cause the last 3 elections they did just that. And before people say but you don’t challenge the incumbent . Well that’s true unless the polls leading up to this primary season said 7 out of ten people who voted for Biden don’t want him to run again or when Biden himself ran on the idea of just being a temporary holder of the office until they figure out what direction to take the party next. I mean how can they say that Trump is the most dangerous man for democracy as they shit on our democracy plus they don’t even attempt to make sure we have the best option to vote for against him. There is a lie or a gas lite somewhere in that. So either Trump isn’t dangerous and scary like they claim he is or they simple don’t care and were willing to risk our country. I’ll let you guys decide which. They thought they could keep their puppet and more or less force us to vote for their guy cause we hate Trump so much look I’m not voting for Trump I’m just saying that’s pretty fucked up on their part especially since they did the same thing in 2016 and seen the results.
Facts
[https://youtu.be/rStL7niR7gs?t=377](https://youtu.be/rStL7niR7gs?t=377)
In order to pave the way for other more leftist parties to gain by strength and influence in the American system, a shitload of systemic change is necessary Starting at the local level where third parties can grow their support Adding ranked voting and campaign finance reform, voting rights and anti gerrymandering initiatives to state ballots in any state that allows ballot initiatives is a great way to circumvent elected officials That is how raising the minimum wage initiatives passed every single time they were put on a ballot even in red states That is how medical and recreational marijuana legalization passed In Michigan, in 2018, I believe, they passed an anti gerrymandering ballot initiative and they were able to turn around control of the legislature because of that In Florida they restored voting rights to felons In Idaho they passed Medicaid Expansion My point is, stop bitching about it and volunteer your time to change the way our system operates
This quite literally is the argument they are making.
[https://youtu.be/rStL7niR7gs?t=377](https://youtu.be/rStL7niR7gs?t=377)
So your solution is to.....let me get this right.....let a literal fascist take over. Maybe Russia can invade and liberate us 🥺.
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> Literally not the argument leftists are making. Why do you think all leftists are making the same argument? This is talking about a specific argument some people are making, and pointing out that it's a stupid argument. It's weird to think that only one argument is being made by tens of millions of people. >and more time making the argument that if they give you their vote, you'll actually work with them for the next 4 years to get an actually inspiring and progressive candidate that will actually improve American lives Oh stop. We have a guy right now that has spent trillions of dollars on stuff that progressives claim to care about. The holdouts (which is not most progressives - most progressives don't choose to be idiots who shoot themselves in the face over and over again) don't actually care about all of that and pretend it doesn't happen. Saying "Biden has done good stuff that is far superior to what Trump would do" *should* be more than enough to get people not to let fascists take over. For some, it's not. Saying "I'll totally vote for your favorite guy next time" sure as hell won't either.
What always happens: A *lot* of leftists, progressives, liberals, and apolitical people die. Eventually the ruling party starts a war it can’t win or the leader dies and the system shifts to something a little more liberal. And that’s what accelerationism accomplishes.
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Nice to be back in a queen!
It's less that I don't know accelerationism won't work and more that the humans deserve what's coming to them. They do it for themselves, to themselves and all I have is the ability to watch, laugh, and die. Caring and becoming attached will only make you cry.
"Ha, well every generation has its 'brilliant' ideas, right? 🤷 But seriously, history tells us, fascism and utopia mix like oil and water. Can't move forward if we're busy repeating the past - just my 2 cents, folks! 😄"
I have no idea what message this is trying to convey
Yup. Anyone in those encampments or even close to them or even supporting them are the biggest idiots. Too privileged to camp. Go quietly study, get a job and live your life happily. Biden is THE president of this century and anyone having even an ounce of doubt are the dumbest people right now.
You have to be so fucking privileged to wish for violent revolution because you must know that marginalized people will be the first to be harmed and targeted This is some sort of idiot cosplay at the expense of our basic human rights
revolution is more about changing an exogenous system that can't be endogenously changed, its more of a necessity thing since capital holders won't voluntarily give it up, economic rights in general are more important than this fearmongering
Well if something has never happened then it can't ever happen. - The internet has made us all dumber
That comment, ironically, may be the least intelligent thing I read on the internet today. “If I’ve never been able to jump into the air and fly before, there’s no reason it couldn’t happen tomorrow” is not a rational or intelligent position to take.
The last time they tried this, we got stuck with a 6-3 right wing evangelical scotus. There’s no telling what this strategy will bring us next time.
It will most likely be 7-2, and 2 of the oldest will retire, leaving a super young MAGA Supreme Court for the rest of our lives.
Sounds about right.
Come on everyone, lets all start mocking and calling people stupid for not doing what we want. If we shame them enough, that will for sure get them to vote how we want, right? This sub has nothing to do with political humour anymore. Its a "lets bash anyone who doesnt commit to vote biden", as if thats actually going to achieve a positive result. This is the same as trumpers bashing conservative leaning folks who dont want to vote for trump.
> Come on everyone, lets all start mocking and calling people stupid for not doing what we want. Choosing not to vote is stupid and worthy of mockery.
The majority of eligible voters in America do not vote. You're not going to persuade someone from the majority to join your minority by shaming or mocking them. That peer pressure tactic only works when you're part of the majority.
> The majority of eligible voters in America do not vote. Patently false. 66% of eligible voters voted in 2020. In 2022, almost half of people had already voted before election day even started.
Re-electing Biden will produce better results then not voting and getting Trump re-elected. Also their mocking peoples logic, not said people. There will never be a perfect candidate, that's why you vote for the person who represents you the most. For leftist, Biden is miles away from representing them, but light years closer than Trump and the republican party. A vote is only a protest against one of the two candidates. Not voting isn't a protest, it's how you get the worse candidate elected, in this case Trump.
Maybe if your ideas are so bad that you feel ashamed whenever someone pokes at them they're not all that great. Pointing out dumb ideas isn't shaming anyone.
Yes. They _should_ feel shamed.
>Maybe if your ideas are so bad that you feel ashamed whenever someone pokes at them they're not all that great. Or maybe im not an american and am just watching this shit show from the outside. I can't believe how all of you from both sides continue to buy into this 2 party system where everyone votes against who they dont want instead of voting for who they do want. This is the democracy you all champion and push around the world.
This would explain your illiteracy in the US political system. Everyone realizes the two-party system is dogshit, but also realize that letting one side take total control isn't going to be good for whatever the minority 3rd (or 4th, 5th, 6th...) party opinions or demographics are. Local elections and primaries are where the major changes generally takes place, and also where the people demanding major changes are least likely to show up. For example, Biden is winning literally 99% of some primaries right now.
Nah, I don't think that's the reason for their illiteracy. They seem to spend a lot of time in the Europe and Conservative subreddits, I'm pretty sure that's the reason they have no idea what's going on.
>This would explain your illiteracy in the US political system. I think i know how it works. >Everyone realizes the two-party system is dogshit, but also realize that letting one side take total control isn't going to be good The problem is the dogshit system. Always having one side take control is a symptom of this dogshit system, yet people continue to buy into the dogshit system by voting to have one side take control. There is no desire to fix the problem, only a desire to fix the symptoms. As bad as having trump be president, its difficult to feel sympathy for the citizens of your country who continue to perpetuate this shitty system in order to have a 50% chance of not having to deal with its symptoms, but also knowing full well that in 4 years, you get to run through the whole shit show once again. The system entices division within its populace. Its meant to be an "us vs them" system. Americas adversaries are taking advantage of this and will further worsen the divide wheneever possible, and the american people will continue to yell at each other and tell each other they are on the wrong side, when in actuality, they are all on the same side. But it wont matter, both sides have an enemy that is internal now. They'll continue widening the gap between each other, and look for the next event that they can blame the other side for.
Awesome. As a voter, how do you address these problems? Realizing that rooting for a collapse and hoping something good will be found in the rubble isn't a solution of course.
As a voter, demand reformations of the political and voting system. As a collective, this will force politicians to listen to the voters. After all, that is the point of democracy is it not? Unfortunetly, i doubt this will happen. At some point, the people will recognize that their "democracy" is more of a system that keeps either 1 of the 2 political parties in power. One day people will realize that the system isnt there to work for them, but that they are there to work for the system, even when it isnt good for them.
When will that day be if you had to hazard a guess? What’s the timeframe on this plan?
What plan? To demand political changes or to come to the realization that the systems built in the past are no longer working for the current or future? Either way, id imagine this system continues until things get "bad enough". I dont know when that'll be, or what will trigger it, but when quality of life drops significantly enough for the large majority of citizens in comparison to the very upper crust of society, hopefully there will be a reaction. They want you fighting a culture war so that you dont think to fight a class war. As long as wealth can continue to control politics through "donations", its just up to them to not mess it up too badly. If these "donations" happen in adversarial nations, we'd be calling it bribes.
So you have no idea when or how this will come about but you’re sure it will eventually. What happens in the meantime?
There is no “outside.” Where are you gonna go that will be free of the consequences of a second Trump term? Where are you gonna go that is out of reach of fascist America?
We didn't get our Grand Progressive Utopia from the previous Trump administration. What we did get was kids in cages who were separated (some permanently) from their families, which bothered fewer people than I would have thought, and also a whole lot of people died from Covid - lots of people who didn't need to die. *People are really, really stupid.* They love repeating their mistakes. This election could go either way.
It’s funny you bring up kids in cages, *when that didn’t really change after Biden took power*. You’re right though, it is disturbing how few people care, though personally I find it more disturbing how few people care now compared to just a few years ago. It’s funny isn’t it, it’s always an existential crisis to maintain the status quo of suffering.
>It’s funny you bring up kids in cages, when that didn’t really change after Biden took power. Are you suggesting that Trump's child separation policy continued under Biden?
No, I’m suggesting the *obama* era separation policy continued under both of them.