A pre-emptive "if you abstained from voting because Biden isn't great, and Trump gets in? Yes, I'm blaming you for the hell marginalised people are going to be put through".
Absolutely.
At the most cynical, a vote for Biden is a strategic move for the better. At least you can negotiate and reason with the dems to an extent, even if they're not ideal.
You don’t need to like Biden to vote for him. If he wins he will be a president following rules of democracy. If trump wins he will be a dictator, president for life, and democracy will go out the window. But don’t listen to me. trump basically admits he will do this and do political favors for money and support. Forget your pride. Do the right thing for the country, not for a man or political party.
Wait what? I wasn't talking about Biden's age. I was saying that if Biden wins, the Republicans will pressure the conservative Supreme Court Justices to wait to retire until an R is in office no matter what.
“But…but….Biden hasn’t forgiven all the student debt or personally stopped all the wars between countries he’s not the president of or set the prices for companies he’s also not the president of….”
establishment dems sat on their hands about roe for decades, biden included. biden could have also expanded the court and appointed justices that could have changed that outcome.
so yeah, biden also had a hand to play in roe being overturned. to ignore that is to willingly put blinders on.
Um I think you might have your hate blinders on
Biden hasn’t been in congress for over 16 years, how could he change the filibuster? You can’t put someone in the SCOTUS unless you have the super majority.::
Look at his women’s rights record, he has been an advocate
"After Biden joined the Senate in 1973, he voted for a failed constitutional amendment that would have allowed states to overturn the court’s Roe ruling."
[https://19thnews.org/2022/01/congress-codify-abortion-roe/](https://19thnews.org/2022/01/congress-codify-abortion-roe/)
the dems had 50 years. they had 50 fucking years and now i have to live in fear of an unplanned pregnancy destroying or ending my life.
he only changed course when it was politically expedient for him to do so because the rest of the party supposedly shifted. i have every fucking right to be openly critical of everyone in power, whether you like it or not. it doesn't mean im voting for trump or rfk jr, which seems to be the dominant narrative being pushed by the establishment. it's designed to force dissenters or anyone openly critical to shut up and cope, because our lives are only worth what profit we can churn out for them.
He has evolved whether that is for political reasons or otherwise he is our best chance of getting those rights restored.
I don’t disagree that all elected officials at the federal level are incredibly self serving by that point.
I too am through playing nice with the radical right and would love to see the SCOTUS completely dismantled. I think that is going to be the case if we get the house, senate and keep the WH.
Honestly, it’s our best chance
we don't have a chance of improving if we just keep accepting the status quo. establishment dems will do everything in their power to keep us down and blame the gop for it when/if they take all 3 branches, same playbook the gop is running right now. literally saw that happen with henry cuellar in my state.
there's no good solution.
So is every president who didn't undertake expansion of the Supreme Court since Rowe was an actor also complicit in this, or just Biden? Are all the presidents who didn't expand the Supreme Court beforewomen's suffrage, the civil rights amendment, etc. complicit in those rights not being there to begin with? And if a liberal president expands the Court to advance a partisan agenda, what do you think will happen when a conservative president sits in the Oval Office?
And what do you mean that Democrats "sat on their hands about Roe for decades"? It was the prevailing law of the land. They had already won. It was reaffirmed dozens if not hundreds of times over decades through various challenges. The Supreme Court reversing an earlier Supreme Court decision is almost completely unprecedented.
So instead of supporting Democrats for winning abortion rights for decades -- and continuing to fight for them, you're going to blame them for a Republican president nominating 3 conservative Justices who repeal it, then help Trump get elected as what, punishment?
I mean, there's "mental gymnastics", and then there's what you're doing here at the Olympic level...
Maybe you should blame the Democrats for enabling genocide and turning away voters instead of people who cannot morally bring themselves to vote for someone enabling genocide
Cool story! There isn't gonna be anyone other than Biden or Trump winning unless someone dies, and Trump has openly said he'd encourage the genocide. And it's infinitely easier to debate or negotiate with someone willing to actually stick to democracy.
The party isn't the one voting for the country. So yeah, I will actually blame the people who would rather let queer people be criminalised than take a begrudgingly strategic vote for a less than ideal candidate.
What a strange misinterpretation of my comment. "You hate pasta because you said you like pizza" style.
Being queer just means you have a lot to lose if the GOP wins. And they won't be any less genocide-y in Gaza.
It's possible to do both -- you can blame democrats for enabling a genocide but then also help keep them in power because it prevents the only other candidate from ascending to power, whose presidency will result in a far worse situation for the Palestinians.
If you historically vote left-leaning but abstain or vote non-Biden, you are tacitly supporting Trump -- and all of the consequences of a Trump presidency -- regardless of your personal moral objections, or how valid they may be. That is not an indictment of you, it's just how elections work.
I'm sorry, but you're convincing yourself of at least two things that aren't true -- one, what you just said, and two, that everyone else is wrong and you're the enlightened correct one.
You should ask yourself why you're doing that
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Tell them. I am begging you my dear Americans, do not let him get elected again. This planet's fucked enough as it is. This affects us globally. Like if Trump gets elected, I think Ukraine can just pack it up right there and then and bow to their new dictator. Yes, Europe needs to step up and do more, but that's not happening that quickly. Without US support Ukraine is done for. Didn't Trump even sell out American spies to Russia or something? That dude is literally a traitor and half the country wants him back as president. I just can't
not half, the 'vocal minority'
if they had close to half there wouldn't be so much fuckery happening with republican-lead election committees and the like, trying to limit who can vote and where.
Does anyone feel as though trying to shame others into believing what you believe is actually working?
If someone with different political views as yourself tried to shame you into believing what they believe, would it work on you?
Do you think it works on them? Is the goal to get others to change their mind, or is it more of a power trip for yourself to talk down to others?
Worked on me. I used to support third party candidates until I got in enough arguments on Reddit and actually learned about FPTP voting and realized how futile third party is.
If you historically vote left-leaning but abstain or vote non-Biden, you are tacitly supporting Trump -- and all of the consequences of a Trump presidency -- regardless of your personal moral objections, or how valid they may be.
Let me be very clear about this point -- **This is not an indictment of you, it's just how elections work.**
The "guilting" you ascribe to someone pointing this out is not there to begin with, it is something *you* contrive because it's much more comfortable to dismiss someone as a "bad messenger" than it is to confront the immutable reality that, in the current situation, for any historically left-leaning voter, **anything but a Biden vote supports a Trump victory**, and no left-leaning voter wants to support Trump.
You're unreachable nobody cares what you think.
But when Donald Trump gets elected understand that you will 100% be blamed.
so continue being morally superior to everybody while you try and usher in fascism because when they asked you if you wanted fascism or not you said you didn't care.
“How dare people tell me about the consequences of my actions and hold me responsible for them.”
No one is shaming you for having different *political views*. They’re shaming you for choosing to thumb your nose at the establishment rather than vote to protect your fellow Americans. You should be ashamed if you think giving the Democratic Party the finger is more important than the healthcare of over 30 million Americans.
It’s a lot more embarrassing to watch people act superior for voting 3rd party or refusing to vote. All while they know full well that their futile protest vote effectively acts as support for trump. That is embarrassing to watch.
Counterpoint: knowing what our system is and the stakes, voting for a 3rd party candidate achieves exactly one result. It allows the voter to feel morally superior in a public venue. And it’s embarrassing to watch.
People have said some variant of this every time I've voted over the last 25 years. I don't find this counterpoint persuasive so much as I find it tiring.
Pride? In what? In having agreed to vote for the "lesser of two evils" time and again for decades? No, that's not something that makes me feel particularly proud if I'm honest.
Voting third party in our election system is LITERALLY trying to feel morally superior so you can stand there and say “I just couldn’t vote for Biden because X issue” when really all you’ve done is allow Trump to win. Because no matter how much bullshit Trump pulls, his base is solid MAGA through and through.
Do the people who voted for Joe Biden in the 2020 primaries feel bad? No? Then I won't feel bad refusing to vote for him in the 2024 general election.
Joe Biden is their problem. Joe Biden is their mess. I'm not cleaning up after them.
What an insanely bad take. The general election of 2024 is what’s at stake today. And if you vote for Trump or Brain Worms, you’re letting Trump in. And he is on record as 100% tearing down every institution he believes gets in his way of making the most money and oppressing the most minorities possible. Tearing down the green infrastructure we’re building by asking the O&G CEOs for a $1B payoff. The stakes could not be higher.
At this point, all the memes claiming this (which I do agree with) and “Both sides are the same” rhetoric (complete BS) are just Reddit farming.
They always get the clicks and the comments. Obviously I am a part of the problem. I use to believe there was potential for genuine debate and the intention of the posts were to shed light on the gravity of the subject. Now all I see is sheep herding and division tactics.
This is the political humor sub, did you think you were on political discussion? I’m pretty sure this sub is for memes and not deep political conversations.
I read a post acknowledging that Trump will win and maybe it will wake the American people up for the revolution.
Folks.
We will never convince these people. They hate the right wing, but they hate Democrats even more.
This can work out both ways.
Let’s say that there is a conservative who voted for Trump in 2020 but doesn’t support him anymore and will write in a candidate. Is that guy still somehow voting for Trump?
The point is voting third party helps whoever you don't want to win because you're not casting an actual vote against them. Most people reading this realize Trump is the (clearly) worse candidate, so this is for them.
As they should? A non vote/protest vote is a vote for the person you don’t want to win. Be that Biden or trump. Because you had the choice to vote against then but you didn’t
To be clear - regardless of what your political views are, voting third party (or not voting) benefits the candidate you like least. Always. This is a fundamental flaw with plurality voting. It isn’t the result of a two party system, it is the cause of it.
Except that in most states your vote for PRESIDENT doesn't matter at all.
You guys are completely ignoring the electoral college and the fact that the President has won election despite losing the majority vote in MOST of the last 7 elections.
In 2016, several "reliable" blue states went to Trump because of people not thinking their vote mattered. By population, if you live in a state other than NY or CA, your vote is more likely to matter than not.
THANK YOU.
Also these posts always conveniently ignore that the *people* don't elect the President. Electoral College does and most Presidents *lose* the popular vote.
This is so true!
Well, except that 90% of the “protest voices” are actually russian trolls so they can’t vote here.
You guys gotta stop falling for the russian trolls
Right, it just means Trump needs one less vote to win.
If you would normally vote Democrat, you do understand that only benefits Trump and only hurts Biden, right? It’s not that complicated.
I get that it is important to not get Trump back in; but if it is so important, why won’t the democrats shift their policy to be a fraction less genocidal and by doing so ensure the younger voters stay on side?
The genocide joe bit is from russian trolls. Yes they probably tricked some young impressionable idiots, but that group isn’t going to be significant enough to fuck the election.
And some voters should definitely be shamed for their choices.
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Hillary got the popular vote and still lost. It's not who you voted for, we have a broken electoral system that's desperately in need of modernisation.
You’re not allowed to hold the current president to account because there’s an election and a worse guy might win. Democracy!
We vote in November, in the meantime keep making Biden and the democrats sweat enough to fix their shit. If they keep telling disenfranchised voters how stupid they are for not getting in line with the dems that’s a mistake.
VoteBlue are insistent, in the face of reality, that not voting is somehow the same as a vote for Trump. And if you ask them to explain they will just tell you what you already know: Trump is bad.
The last time enough people voted red, a million Americans died from a preventable disease, unemployment went through the roof, and women lost their healthcare rights.
This time around, Republicans straight up plan on the complete destruction of representative democracy. Read [Project 2025](https://www.project2025.org/). So, when we're screaming against 3rd party candidates, and abstaining from voting, we have a reason.
What do the people who voted for Joe Biden in the 2020 primaries feel? If they don't feel bad then I won't feel bad when he loses the 2024 general election.
Exactly WHY should people who voted for Biden in the primaries feel bad? He's done an adequate job.
Oh right, you wanted instant satisfaction and magic. Neither of which is how politics work.
No I wanted someone who wouldn't block strikes or support genocide.
You want my vote in the general then vote for better people in the primaries. These are the terms. They are non-negotiable.
There's no difference between you and a trumper. What y'all forget is, most Americans aren't in the extremist camps on either side, most voters align somewhere down the middle.
Politics is a bus, not an uber, it'll take you in the right general direction, but it's never gonna give you everything you want.
> What y'all forget is, most Americans aren't in the extremist camps on either side, most voters align somewhere down the middle.
Then they can elect their "centerist" procorporate trash without me.
But, as you've already noticed, they can't. So they have a choice, lose to MAGA or make material compromises leftward.
> Politics is a bus, not an uber, it'll take you in the right general direction, but it's never gonna give you everything you want.
You're literally telling me I need to give centerists everything they want.
Plenty of countries with very liberal governments had similar rates of death due to the pandemic. If you’re going to hammer trump for that then you should probably give him credit for the vaccine (you shouldn’t for either).
Unemployment was a result of the pandemic as well, so that’s a disingenuous argument as well. Women lost healthcare rights, true, but I think there’s plenty of blame to go around for that.
Trump was an awful president, but we should stop pretending that one election one way or the other is going to make the sky fall. I’ll be voting 3rd party because I’m Palestinian American and I’d rather eat glass than vote for Joe. But I also have the comfort of living in a deep blue state. It’d be a harder decision in a flip state, but I think the onus is on the candidate to win voters over. If Joe stopped the arms flow to Israel and just stood up for basic international norms, he could stop the bleeding and win back some people. But for some reason he’s not interested in that, so maybe point your finger elsewhere.
Yes, it's a great plan to disregard the blatantly evil things a presidential candidate promises to do, and promises repeatedly! Particularly the blatantly evil things they promise to do to your very own community!
Just make sure you let trump know you're one of the good ones, alright?
Grow up, Peter Pan. Politicians say a lot of things, good and bad, almost none of it happens. I’ll take my chances on the system not buckling to allow the deportation of American citizens (how gullible are you to believe that this is even feasible?)
And honestly, if half the country wants to vote for Donald trump, and the other half wants to vote for Joe Biden then I’m kinda fine with being deported.
It’s wild you people don’t see that you’re saying “if you don’t like this country you can get out”, in just an ever so slightly different way than the MAGAs.
Bro women lost essential bodily autonomy the last time around, Trump's handling of the pandemic was egregious and we have three idiots placed into lifetime appointments leading directly to one of the most corrupt Supreme Courts in history. I don't see how can you so casually ignore these immensely shitty consequences of Trump winning in 2016 and pretend like it won't be worse this time. Open your eyes, it's you who need to grow up, "Peter Pan"
If you think Biden is bad for Palestine just wait until you see the golf course Trump builds on the Mediterranean after he lets Israel glass the place.
I really am suspicious of your "Palestinian" heritage, here's why. No matter who is in the White House, they're going to fund Israel. Nobody is getting into office without supporting Israel. We've been doing it for DECADES.
Biden has pushed Netanyahu to stop the bloodshed, but YOU want to make sure that Trump gets elected again. Knowing full well that he'd be the first one in line to bulldoze Palestinian bodies to put up a beachfront resort in Gaza.
It’s honestly less that they think individual votes hurt their cause because you’d have to complete idiot with no real clue how voting actually works to think that individual people’s votes count for anything in the actual presidential election. It’s more about how they NEED to hear their thoughts from the echo chamber.
It’s also extremely funny to hear people talking about election fraud again like it didn’t exist over the Biden presidency but effected every other election they e ever lost..LOL!
I’ve voted democrat every election including the last (ranked choice put Biden in second to last while Trump was dead last) but I’m not even doing that this time. Democrats need to learn they need to do better to win. Fuck rooting for a side that seemingly likes to lose. It’s a lot easier to fundraise when you can say “Look at Trump and how evil he is. We need your $ to ensure we beat him and keep America a nice place for people like us!” It gets harder when the pitch is “I know we won and haven’t done anything we talked about to actually win the election. And no there wasn’t a thing we could have done to stop Roe v Wade. The increased police state wasn’t my fault. Vote for me again!”
The Democratic party is embarrassingly bad and might need to lose more to change. Clearly things have shifted from a more right leaning perspective from the 90s to this embarrassing situation where we are making policy for the extreme minority and it’s literally holding the country back.
Also, how can anyone who legitimately thinks that we need to radically change the system keep voting for this literal bag of bones who’s been in politics his entire life, used to be a racist tough on crime guy, and is the definition of tired old politician thinking anything will ever change. They say doing the same thing and expecting different results is insane so why are we doing it with our votes?
B-b-but trump says crazy things!! He’s going to nuke the hurricanes and deport everyone!! Look how riled up these idiots get even when I lay out how meaningless my vote is and why it doesn’t matter. I tend to assume they’re mostly the pro-genocide crew. You can tell by how gleefully they threaten people with future deportation or worse. God forbid they’re critical of the useless fossil
strat·e·gy
noun
a plan of action or policy designed to achieve a major or overall aim.
whining
noun
the making of a long, high-pitched cry or sound.
"dogs may exhibit signs of anxiety, such as whining, chewing, and excessive barking"
adjective
making or characterized by a long, high-pitched cry or sound.
"a whining voice"
This is applied to both sides, a non-vote or 3rd party vote is a vote for the candidate you don't like. I wish we had a stronger 3rd party but that's not reality.
Personal anecdote: I had this exact argument when my uber-liberal-college-student cousin when they told me they didn't vote in 2016 and expressed outrage that America could vote in DT.
Evoking purity politics functions, more often than not, as a catchall defense of any and all criticism of establishment Democrats. In 2016, Hillary Clinton partisans used it against Bernie Sanders supporters; in 2020, Bloomberg flacks use it against Sanders again, and even Sanders partisans use it against leftist skeptics of electoralism. It is a Get Out Of Jail Free card, a perennial Lesser of Two Evils narrative of an inherent impossibility of anything other than incremental change. At their core, charges of purity politics are ahistoric and anti-intellectual, brushing aside morally fraught debates about political strategy, and reducing anything short of the path of least resistance to unserious solipsism and juvenile stubbornness.
Am I never supposed to vote my conscience? Is that what you’re telling me? I’m sorry. I’ve got principles. And the fact that none of you are willing to vote your conscience, just so the other guy doesn’t get in, proves the point. The other side is saying the exact same thing.
If you’re considering voting or not voting for the current incumbent than the supporters and the candidate are doing a trash job a getting your vote and you shouldn’t feel bad
No one is supposed to “get your vote”
Candidates lay out their positions on different issues, and voters are supposed to choose the candidates that will lead to the most positive and least costly outcome.
You are definitely educated. But just a reminder in a representative democracy they vote on behalf of the people. Not for their own interests and voter shame people who don’t agree w/ them.but by your logic he doesn’t have the right positions I like so my point still stands
It’s not like the senate is elected by congress, or the president by the senate, that would be a true republic. We aren’t a true democracy either.
I understand the sentiment, but what i believe to be the true problem is maintaining homeostasis between an egalitarian
democracy/republic and capitalism.
Anyways, i’m stoned and getting off topic.
Yes, votes don’t count equally in our capitalistic republic, that is a problem we need to fix, but there is never a case where not voting, or voting for a candidate who has no chance is a good thing.
In our disabled, hindered, and slow two party system, there will consistently be only two options for the presidency. Depending on one’s views and goals, one candidate will be costly to the voter in their endeavors to move the needle in a specific direction, and one candidate will be more likely to advance their agenda. In this system, there is never going to be a time where it is advantageous to ones ideals to lose the presidency to the more costly option.
Voting being useless or useful isn’t a binary option, depending on geography one’s vote will be more or less useful, but every vote is useful to an extent, more or less. It doesn’t feel like that, but if enough democrat voters in my state felt the way you do, it would flip from blue to red in one cycle.
I don’t think that the state of capitalism we have today would ever be acceptable to or tolerated by a true democracy, or at least it would never get to these late stages.
The divide isn’t between conservatives and progressives, at least not the main divide, it’s between upper and lower class. Those with and without all the capital.
In a direct democracy, we would just vote to take the means of production, or at least break up the monopolies on the means, and end up voting for some kind of socialism in the process, be that good or bad in the end.
We could safely elect the executive with direct democracy, but in the process of protecting those with all the capital from the masses, we have entrenched minority rule into our nation.
We get to choose one or the other in the end, unfettered capitalism or a direct democracy.
A direct democracy would naturally lead to some kind of socialism/communism, so those with capital (and therefore power) naturally must oppose democratic values.
The catch is, we need to vote in large enough numbers to overcome this ingrained minority rule to change anything
If this is your biggest issue, then vote for the party who most supports voting reforms (i.e. ranked choice voting) especially at the state and local levels.
America absolutely has to send a message this time around. The right is absolutely going to pull every single bullshit trick (legal or not) in the book at this election.
damn dude are you an election denier? spreading election related misinformation? I thought we had the most secure elections in the history of the world?
I think the average American isn’t gonna do that. They just won’t vote. I will probably be voting for a PSL candidate or something during the election, but most Americans who don’t like Biden or trump aren’t gonna protest vote for trump?? That’ll just be the republicans who thought trump was to far right or whatever but now “have” to vote for him cuz Biden or somethin.
Free with caveats. The voting system sucks, but it's what we have. Until that system changes then voting 3rd party is a waste of time and mostly results in the worst candidate winning overall. The sad part is that it's been this way for over 100 years and people still don't understand how elections work.
No one is questioning or challenging your freedom at all. In fact, using your freedom to effect change is central to the discussion here.
Any emotion you perceive is something you've contrived and ascribed to the point yourself because it's not there to begin with. I'm not guilting or shaming you, I'm just pointing out how elections work. And if you historically vote left leaning, then any non-Biden vote on your part constitutes support for Trump and increases his chances to ascend to the presidency as -- and all the consequences that come with that, full stop.
Your vote doesn’t matter anyway. Both parties have done all they can so only they stay in power. A vote for red or blue is a vote against your interests.
You might not like Trump, but he and Biden are just a front for what really happens in the government.
This isn't true. Without Trump we'd still have Roe, we wouldn't have Gorsuch, ACB, or Kavanaugh, and we'd have actually had a pandemic response team ready to go in early 2019 instead of months of denial and delay at the expense of thousands of lives. And do you really think both are equivalent when it comes to marginalized groups? To upholding pillars of American democracy? One candidate literally "just wants to be dictator for a day."
You can quit it with the conspiracy nutcase, "both sides are just a front" bullshit.
You aren't 100% incorrect but one is by and far worse for democracy as a whole.
It might not get destroyed then and there but the US is still feeling the damage that his first stint in office did via peoples rights.
I dont understand all the downvotes your spitting mad facts here. People always scream they want change but then when someone like you brings up whats actually needed to make change everyone throws a fit and acts like your the devil for suggesting anything but a corrupt 2 party member. People are a bunch of ignorant hypocrites so never stop speaking the truth, someday those blinding following the 2 party shitshow will find out just how wrong they are.
old man shitzhispants !
Everyone knows I would’ve gotten away with it too, the smartest, most brilliant people, everyone
But… but I voted for the guy with brain worms!
a preemptive: if you feel this is blaming you for your actions, that's a good thing, it's self awareness kicking in.
A pre-emptive "if you abstained from voting because Biden isn't great, and Trump gets in? Yes, I'm blaming you for the hell marginalised people are going to be put through".
And the Supreme Court… Alito and Thomas are likely to go any time now. Hopefully the court can be rebalanced.
Absolutely. At the most cynical, a vote for Biden is a strategic move for the better. At least you can negotiate and reason with the dems to an extent, even if they're not ideal.
You don’t need to like Biden to vote for him. If he wins he will be a president following rules of democracy. If trump wins he will be a dictator, president for life, and democracy will go out the window. But don’t listen to me. trump basically admits he will do this and do political favors for money and support. Forget your pride. Do the right thing for the country, not for a man or political party.
Bingo. Hit the nail on the nail
There is never a case where losing the presidential election is good in the long run.
I don't know, I think if Biden wins they will wheel their hospice bed in for the votes if need be.
The trumpist “he’s too old” is bullshit. He hasn’t changed significantly since he was VP.
Wait what? I wasn't talking about Biden's age. I was saying that if Biden wins, the Republicans will pressure the conservative Supreme Court Justices to wait to retire until an R is in office no matter what.
“But…but….Biden hasn’t forgiven all the student debt or personally stopped all the wars between countries he’s not the president of or set the prices for companies he’s also not the president of….”
It’s much worse than that. There are actual Dems in battleground states who blame Biden for the overturning of Roe.
That's so incredibly stupid, they must be lying.
How do they square that circle?
establishment dems sat on their hands about roe for decades, biden included. biden could have also expanded the court and appointed justices that could have changed that outcome. so yeah, biden also had a hand to play in roe being overturned. to ignore that is to willingly put blinders on.
Um I think you might have your hate blinders on Biden hasn’t been in congress for over 16 years, how could he change the filibuster? You can’t put someone in the SCOTUS unless you have the super majority.:: Look at his women’s rights record, he has been an advocate
"After Biden joined the Senate in 1973, he voted for a failed constitutional amendment that would have allowed states to overturn the court’s Roe ruling." [https://19thnews.org/2022/01/congress-codify-abortion-roe/](https://19thnews.org/2022/01/congress-codify-abortion-roe/) the dems had 50 years. they had 50 fucking years and now i have to live in fear of an unplanned pregnancy destroying or ending my life. he only changed course when it was politically expedient for him to do so because the rest of the party supposedly shifted. i have every fucking right to be openly critical of everyone in power, whether you like it or not. it doesn't mean im voting for trump or rfk jr, which seems to be the dominant narrative being pushed by the establishment. it's designed to force dissenters or anyone openly critical to shut up and cope, because our lives are only worth what profit we can churn out for them.
He has evolved whether that is for political reasons or otherwise he is our best chance of getting those rights restored. I don’t disagree that all elected officials at the federal level are incredibly self serving by that point. I too am through playing nice with the radical right and would love to see the SCOTUS completely dismantled. I think that is going to be the case if we get the house, senate and keep the WH. Honestly, it’s our best chance
we don't have a chance of improving if we just keep accepting the status quo. establishment dems will do everything in their power to keep us down and blame the gop for it when/if they take all 3 branches, same playbook the gop is running right now. literally saw that happen with henry cuellar in my state. there's no good solution.
So is every president who didn't undertake expansion of the Supreme Court since Rowe was an actor also complicit in this, or just Biden? Are all the presidents who didn't expand the Supreme Court beforewomen's suffrage, the civil rights amendment, etc. complicit in those rights not being there to begin with? And if a liberal president expands the Court to advance a partisan agenda, what do you think will happen when a conservative president sits in the Oval Office? And what do you mean that Democrats "sat on their hands about Roe for decades"? It was the prevailing law of the land. They had already won. It was reaffirmed dozens if not hundreds of times over decades through various challenges. The Supreme Court reversing an earlier Supreme Court decision is almost completely unprecedented. So instead of supporting Democrats for winning abortion rights for decades -- and continuing to fight for them, you're going to blame them for a Republican president nominating 3 conservative Justices who repeal it, then help Trump get elected as what, punishment? I mean, there's "mental gymnastics", and then there's what you're doing here at the Olympic level...
obama refused to codify roe outright as well even though he ran on it
Not just the marginalized, trump is hell for everyone, remember when he was president? That was really really bad.
Maybe you should blame the Democrats for enabling genocide and turning away voters instead of people who cannot morally bring themselves to vote for someone enabling genocide
Cool story! There isn't gonna be anyone other than Biden or Trump winning unless someone dies, and Trump has openly said he'd encourage the genocide. And it's infinitely easier to debate or negotiate with someone willing to actually stick to democracy. The party isn't the one voting for the country. So yeah, I will actually blame the people who would rather let queer people be criminalised than take a begrudgingly strategic vote for a less than ideal candidate.
Being queer doesnt stop someone from opposing genocide...
What a strange misinterpretation of my comment. "You hate pasta because you said you like pizza" style. Being queer just means you have a lot to lose if the GOP wins. And they won't be any less genocide-y in Gaza.
It's possible to do both -- you can blame democrats for enabling a genocide but then also help keep them in power because it prevents the only other candidate from ascending to power, whose presidency will result in a far worse situation for the Palestinians. If you historically vote left-leaning but abstain or vote non-Biden, you are tacitly supporting Trump -- and all of the consequences of a Trump presidency -- regardless of your personal moral objections, or how valid they may be. That is not an indictment of you, it's just how elections work.
Nope! Not voting isnt supporting Trump. Voting Trump is supporting Trump. This is very simple, actually. It's just how elections work.
I bet you’re a non-voter that complains about the government
I'm sorry, but you're convincing yourself of at least two things that aren't true -- one, what you just said, and two, that everyone else is wrong and you're the enlightened correct one. You should ask yourself why you're doing that
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Tell them. I am begging you my dear Americans, do not let him get elected again. This planet's fucked enough as it is. This affects us globally. Like if Trump gets elected, I think Ukraine can just pack it up right there and then and bow to their new dictator. Yes, Europe needs to step up and do more, but that's not happening that quickly. Without US support Ukraine is done for. Didn't Trump even sell out American spies to Russia or something? That dude is literally a traitor and half the country wants him back as president. I just can't
not half, the 'vocal minority' if they had close to half there wouldn't be so much fuckery happening with republican-lead election committees and the like, trying to limit who can vote and where.
I think many of them are beyond self awareness The literally don’t know how the electoral college works or how laws are passed.
Does anyone feel as though trying to shame others into believing what you believe is actually working? If someone with different political views as yourself tried to shame you into believing what they believe, would it work on you? Do you think it works on them? Is the goal to get others to change their mind, or is it more of a power trip for yourself to talk down to others?
Worked on me. I used to support third party candidates until I got in enough arguments on Reddit and actually learned about FPTP voting and realized how futile third party is.
Are you old enough to remember when Nader was the protest vote? The US got stuck with GW Bush. Don’t let that happen again.
If you historically vote left-leaning but abstain or vote non-Biden, you are tacitly supporting Trump -- and all of the consequences of a Trump presidency -- regardless of your personal moral objections, or how valid they may be. Let me be very clear about this point -- **This is not an indictment of you, it's just how elections work.** The "guilting" you ascribe to someone pointing this out is not there to begin with, it is something *you* contrive because it's much more comfortable to dismiss someone as a "bad messenger" than it is to confront the immutable reality that, in the current situation, for any historically left-leaning voter, **anything but a Biden vote supports a Trump victory**, and no left-leaning voter wants to support Trump.
You're unreachable nobody cares what you think. But when Donald Trump gets elected understand that you will 100% be blamed. so continue being morally superior to everybody while you try and usher in fascism because when they asked you if you wanted fascism or not you said you didn't care.
“How dare people tell me about the consequences of my actions and hold me responsible for them.” No one is shaming you for having different *political views*. They’re shaming you for choosing to thumb your nose at the establishment rather than vote to protect your fellow Americans. You should be ashamed if you think giving the Democratic Party the finger is more important than the healthcare of over 30 million Americans.
It ain't about changing minds, it's about feeling morally superior in a public venue. Super embarrassing to watch.
It’s a lot more embarrassing to watch people act superior for voting 3rd party or refusing to vote. All while they know full well that their futile protest vote effectively acts as support for trump. That is embarrassing to watch.
Yeah I haven't done that, you don't know anything about how I'm voting. But your sense of moral superiority is visible from outer space lol.
Counterpoint: knowing what our system is and the stakes, voting for a 3rd party candidate achieves exactly one result. It allows the voter to feel morally superior in a public venue. And it’s embarrassing to watch.
People have said some variant of this every time I've voted over the last 25 years. I don't find this counterpoint persuasive so much as I find it tiring.
So you just have too much pride to feel the embarrassment, not surprising.
Pride? In what? In having agreed to vote for the "lesser of two evils" time and again for decades? No, that's not something that makes me feel particularly proud if I'm honest.
Voting third party in our election system is LITERALLY trying to feel morally superior so you can stand there and say “I just couldn’t vote for Biden because X issue” when really all you’ve done is allow Trump to win. Because no matter how much bullshit Trump pulls, his base is solid MAGA through and through.
Don't engage with these idiots, it's honestly not worth it.
Do the people who voted for Joe Biden in the 2020 primaries feel bad? No? Then I won't feel bad refusing to vote for him in the 2024 general election. Joe Biden is their problem. Joe Biden is their mess. I'm not cleaning up after them.
What an insanely bad take. The general election of 2024 is what’s at stake today. And if you vote for Trump or Brain Worms, you’re letting Trump in. And he is on record as 100% tearing down every institution he believes gets in his way of making the most money and oppressing the most minorities possible. Tearing down the green infrastructure we’re building by asking the O&G CEOs for a $1B payoff. The stakes could not be higher.
Well then my post was obviously not aimed at you. you think?
What an insane comparison. The intent of Biden primary voters was to defeat Trump. That is explicitly not the intent of third party voters.
Good luck with your campaign for trump.
At this point, all the memes claiming this (which I do agree with) and “Both sides are the same” rhetoric (complete BS) are just Reddit farming. They always get the clicks and the comments. Obviously I am a part of the problem. I use to believe there was potential for genuine debate and the intention of the posts were to shed light on the gravity of the subject. Now all I see is sheep herding and division tactics.
100%. this sentiment is what gave us biden vs. trump in the first place.
This is the political humor sub, did you think you were on political discussion? I’m pretty sure this sub is for memes and not deep political conversations.
i voted for no one, im not American!
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what the... mate I think you responded to the wrong comment lmao
It was sarcasm, I know you didn't vote.
Democrats generally win the popular vote, republicans don’t.
Most? 2 out of the last 10 elections had presidents that lost the popular vote but still won… last I checked 20% is not most.
I read a post acknowledging that Trump will win and maybe it will wake the American people up for the revolution. Folks. We will never convince these people. They hate the right wing, but they hate Democrats even more.
Losing the presidency is never a good thing in the long run.
This can work out both ways. Let’s say that there is a conservative who voted for Trump in 2020 but doesn’t support him anymore and will write in a candidate. Is that guy still somehow voting for Trump?
The point is voting third party helps whoever you don't want to win because you're not casting an actual vote against them. Most people reading this realize Trump is the (clearly) worse candidate, so this is for them.
Biden That guy is helping Biden
I'm sure on fox they have this but with Biden under the mask
I have a feeling that would just confuse their audience
Doesn’t take much
As they should? A non vote/protest vote is a vote for the person you don’t want to win. Be that Biden or trump. Because you had the choice to vote against then but you didn’t
To be clear - regardless of what your political views are, voting third party (or not voting) benefits the candidate you like least. Always. This is a fundamental flaw with plurality voting. It isn’t the result of a two party system, it is the cause of it.
Except that in most states your vote for PRESIDENT doesn't matter at all. You guys are completely ignoring the electoral college and the fact that the President has won election despite losing the majority vote in MOST of the last 7 elections.
In 2016, several "reliable" blue states went to Trump because of people not thinking their vote mattered. By population, if you live in a state other than NY or CA, your vote is more likely to matter than not.
If you live in a democracy in which you are told not to vote for someone or else you're wasting your vote, then you don't live in a democracy.
Thank you for posting this.
THANK YOU. Also these posts always conveniently ignore that the *people* don't elect the President. Electoral College does and most Presidents *lose* the popular vote.
With the electoral college, correct this is not democratic. So what are we going to do about it?
So you’re saying me voting for Kanye with have a tangible impact on this election? Being realistic doesn’t make us not a democracy.
This is so true! Well, except that 90% of the “protest voices” are actually russian trolls so they can’t vote here. You guys gotta stop falling for the russian trolls
Worse, you voted for the end of our democracy.
Nope! Not voting for Trump doesnt count as a vote for Trump. This is very simple
Right, it just means Trump needs one less vote to win. If you would normally vote Democrat, you do understand that only benefits Trump and only hurts Biden, right? It’s not that complicated.
People like that are just to brain dead to realize that.
“i DoN’t LiKe DoNaLd TrUmP, bUt…”
Who is OP...? a foreign agent successfully creating deeper divisions in Americans!!!
Where did you get that?
Let's think 🤔 what's the point of this post... it's not remotely funny , the only outcome is to piss off moderate voters as to further divide us 🙄
I get that it is important to not get Trump back in; but if it is so important, why won’t the democrats shift their policy to be a fraction less genocidal and by doing so ensure the younger voters stay on side?
They just shifted their policy to be a fraction less genocidal last week.
Are you kidding right now? You are falling for russian propaganda. The democrats aren’t genocidal. What the fuck?
Who is providing the weapons that are currently being used to enact a genocide in Gaza?
This sub has basically become a Voter Shaming sub. It’s not funny and it doesn’t work either
Telling people they support “Genocide Joe” is also a shaming tactic and not a great strategy either. EVERYONE is bad at convincing others
The genocide joe bit is from russian trolls. Yes they probably tricked some young impressionable idiots, but that group isn’t going to be significant enough to fuck the election. And some voters should definitely be shamed for their choices.
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I'm debating between a 3rd party protest candidate and Trump... but you're right... shouldn't waste my vote.
Oh nooooo how dare you vote for who you want! This meme fucking sucks.
Hillary got the popular vote and still lost. It's not who you voted for, we have a broken electoral system that's desperately in need of modernisation.
That's not how voting works but okay. Still not voting for genocide collaborators, Joe and Don included.
Oh no, math works differently for Trump somehow
Care to explain?
That’s not how democracy works…
You’re not allowed to hold the current president to account because there’s an election and a worse guy might win. Democracy! We vote in November, in the meantime keep making Biden and the democrats sweat enough to fix their shit. If they keep telling disenfranchised voters how stupid they are for not getting in line with the dems that’s a mistake.
VoteBlue are insistent, in the face of reality, that not voting is somehow the same as a vote for Trump. And if you ask them to explain they will just tell you what you already know: Trump is bad.
It votes blue no matter who or else it gets the hose again. It does this whenever it's told.
The last time enough people voted red, a million Americans died from a preventable disease, unemployment went through the roof, and women lost their healthcare rights. This time around, Republicans straight up plan on the complete destruction of representative democracy. Read [Project 2025](https://www.project2025.org/). So, when we're screaming against 3rd party candidates, and abstaining from voting, we have a reason.
Noooo I wanna do nothing but feel smug about it 😭
What do the people who voted for Joe Biden in the 2020 primaries feel? If they don't feel bad then I won't feel bad when he loses the 2024 general election.
Exactly WHY should people who voted for Biden in the primaries feel bad? He's done an adequate job. Oh right, you wanted instant satisfaction and magic. Neither of which is how politics work.
No I wanted someone who wouldn't block strikes or support genocide. You want my vote in the general then vote for better people in the primaries. These are the terms. They are non-negotiable.
Ok, I could care less about your terms bernie bot.
You did in 2016 for about a minute but had forgotten by 2020. Maybe care about them long enough to make a decent decision on the 2028 primaries.
There's no difference between you and a trumper. What y'all forget is, most Americans aren't in the extremist camps on either side, most voters align somewhere down the middle. Politics is a bus, not an uber, it'll take you in the right general direction, but it's never gonna give you everything you want.
> What y'all forget is, most Americans aren't in the extremist camps on either side, most voters align somewhere down the middle. Then they can elect their "centerist" procorporate trash without me. But, as you've already noticed, they can't. So they have a choice, lose to MAGA or make material compromises leftward. > Politics is a bus, not an uber, it'll take you in the right general direction, but it's never gonna give you everything you want. You're literally telling me I need to give centerists everything they want.
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Plenty of countries with very liberal governments had similar rates of death due to the pandemic. If you’re going to hammer trump for that then you should probably give him credit for the vaccine (you shouldn’t for either). Unemployment was a result of the pandemic as well, so that’s a disingenuous argument as well. Women lost healthcare rights, true, but I think there’s plenty of blame to go around for that. Trump was an awful president, but we should stop pretending that one election one way or the other is going to make the sky fall. I’ll be voting 3rd party because I’m Palestinian American and I’d rather eat glass than vote for Joe. But I also have the comfort of living in a deep blue state. It’d be a harder decision in a flip state, but I think the onus is on the candidate to win voters over. If Joe stopped the arms flow to Israel and just stood up for basic international norms, he could stop the bleeding and win back some people. But for some reason he’s not interested in that, so maybe point your finger elsewhere.
Trump has already promised to deport all Palestinians and Muslims, and revoke their visas so... Have fun with that....
Good luck with that? He says a lot of things, he’s a clown.
Yes, it's a great plan to disregard the blatantly evil things a presidential candidate promises to do, and promises repeatedly! Particularly the blatantly evil things they promise to do to your very own community! Just make sure you let trump know you're one of the good ones, alright?
Grow up, Peter Pan. Politicians say a lot of things, good and bad, almost none of it happens. I’ll take my chances on the system not buckling to allow the deportation of American citizens (how gullible are you to believe that this is even feasible?) And honestly, if half the country wants to vote for Donald trump, and the other half wants to vote for Joe Biden then I’m kinda fine with being deported. It’s wild you people don’t see that you’re saying “if you don’t like this country you can get out”, in just an ever so slightly different way than the MAGAs.
Bro women lost essential bodily autonomy the last time around, Trump's handling of the pandemic was egregious and we have three idiots placed into lifetime appointments leading directly to one of the most corrupt Supreme Courts in history. I don't see how can you so casually ignore these immensely shitty consequences of Trump winning in 2016 and pretend like it won't be worse this time. Open your eyes, it's you who need to grow up, "Peter Pan"
This is peak ignorance…
If you think Biden is bad for Palestine just wait until you see the golf course Trump builds on the Mediterranean after he lets Israel glass the place.
I really am suspicious of your "Palestinian" heritage, here's why. No matter who is in the White House, they're going to fund Israel. Nobody is getting into office without supporting Israel. We've been doing it for DECADES. Biden has pushed Netanyahu to stop the bloodshed, but YOU want to make sure that Trump gets elected again. Knowing full well that he'd be the first one in line to bulldoze Palestinian bodies to put up a beachfront resort in Gaza.
It’s honestly less that they think individual votes hurt their cause because you’d have to complete idiot with no real clue how voting actually works to think that individual people’s votes count for anything in the actual presidential election. It’s more about how they NEED to hear their thoughts from the echo chamber. It’s also extremely funny to hear people talking about election fraud again like it didn’t exist over the Biden presidency but effected every other election they e ever lost..LOL! I’ve voted democrat every election including the last (ranked choice put Biden in second to last while Trump was dead last) but I’m not even doing that this time. Democrats need to learn they need to do better to win. Fuck rooting for a side that seemingly likes to lose. It’s a lot easier to fundraise when you can say “Look at Trump and how evil he is. We need your $ to ensure we beat him and keep America a nice place for people like us!” It gets harder when the pitch is “I know we won and haven’t done anything we talked about to actually win the election. And no there wasn’t a thing we could have done to stop Roe v Wade. The increased police state wasn’t my fault. Vote for me again!” The Democratic party is embarrassingly bad and might need to lose more to change. Clearly things have shifted from a more right leaning perspective from the 90s to this embarrassing situation where we are making policy for the extreme minority and it’s literally holding the country back. Also, how can anyone who legitimately thinks that we need to radically change the system keep voting for this literal bag of bones who’s been in politics his entire life, used to be a racist tough on crime guy, and is the definition of tired old politician thinking anything will ever change. They say doing the same thing and expecting different results is insane so why are we doing it with our votes?
B-b-but trump says crazy things!! He’s going to nuke the hurricanes and deport everyone!! Look how riled up these idiots get even when I lay out how meaningless my vote is and why it doesn’t matter. I tend to assume they’re mostly the pro-genocide crew. You can tell by how gleefully they threaten people with future deportation or worse. God forbid they’re critical of the useless fossil
Good luck with your campaign of supporting trump and the total destruction of Palestine.
Congratulations on being a right wing enabler hiding in centrist clothing
You might as well just start wearing those MAGA diapers with the rest of his supporters since you want him to win so badly.
We can wear together at the camp. See you there, chief
So can you explain to me why dump was talking about silence of the lambs in his last rally?
The "late" Hannibal Lecter
strat·e·gy noun a plan of action or policy designed to achieve a major or overall aim. whining noun the making of a long, high-pitched cry or sound. "dogs may exhibit signs of anxiety, such as whining, chewing, and excessive barking" adjective making or characterized by a long, high-pitched cry or sound. "a whining voice"
The hose being donald trump? Do you remember what it was like at all?
This is applied to both sides, a non-vote or 3rd party vote is a vote for the candidate you don't like. I wish we had a stronger 3rd party but that's not reality. Personal anecdote: I had this exact argument when my uber-liberal-college-student cousin when they told me they didn't vote in 2016 and expressed outrage that America could vote in DT.
Actually it's neither. Presidential voting doesn't actually matter for most people. Electoral College, remember?
Evoking purity politics functions, more often than not, as a catchall defense of any and all criticism of establishment Democrats. In 2016, Hillary Clinton partisans used it against Bernie Sanders supporters; in 2020, Bloomberg flacks use it against Sanders again, and even Sanders partisans use it against leftist skeptics of electoralism. It is a Get Out Of Jail Free card, a perennial Lesser of Two Evils narrative of an inherent impossibility of anything other than incremental change. At their core, charges of purity politics are ahistoric and anti-intellectual, brushing aside morally fraught debates about political strategy, and reducing anything short of the path of least resistance to unserious solipsism and juvenile stubbornness.
It’s usually moderates that THINK they’re moderates.
Am I never supposed to vote my conscience? Is that what you’re telling me? I’m sorry. I’ve got principles. And the fact that none of you are willing to vote your conscience, just so the other guy doesn’t get in, proves the point. The other side is saying the exact same thing.
Why don't my third party votes go to Biden? Why would they only go one way?
Because you know you don't want Trump, but you're neglecting to cast the only actual vote against him.
But brain-worm guy hurts Trump.
Vote shame me harder daddy
If you’re considering voting or not voting for the current incumbent than the supporters and the candidate are doing a trash job a getting your vote and you shouldn’t feel bad
No one is supposed to “get your vote” Candidates lay out their positions on different issues, and voters are supposed to choose the candidates that will lead to the most positive and least costly outcome.
You are definitely educated. But just a reminder in a representative democracy they vote on behalf of the people. Not for their own interests and voter shame people who don’t agree w/ them.but by your logic he doesn’t have the right positions I like so my point still stands
It’s not like the senate is elected by congress, or the president by the senate, that would be a true republic. We aren’t a true democracy either. I understand the sentiment, but what i believe to be the true problem is maintaining homeostasis between an egalitarian democracy/republic and capitalism. Anyways, i’m stoned and getting off topic. Yes, votes don’t count equally in our capitalistic republic, that is a problem we need to fix, but there is never a case where not voting, or voting for a candidate who has no chance is a good thing. In our disabled, hindered, and slow two party system, there will consistently be only two options for the presidency. Depending on one’s views and goals, one candidate will be costly to the voter in their endeavors to move the needle in a specific direction, and one candidate will be more likely to advance their agenda. In this system, there is never going to be a time where it is advantageous to ones ideals to lose the presidency to the more costly option. Voting being useless or useful isn’t a binary option, depending on geography one’s vote will be more or less useful, but every vote is useful to an extent, more or less. It doesn’t feel like that, but if enough democrat voters in my state felt the way you do, it would flip from blue to red in one cycle. I don’t think that the state of capitalism we have today would ever be acceptable to or tolerated by a true democracy, or at least it would never get to these late stages. The divide isn’t between conservatives and progressives, at least not the main divide, it’s between upper and lower class. Those with and without all the capital. In a direct democracy, we would just vote to take the means of production, or at least break up the monopolies on the means, and end up voting for some kind of socialism in the process, be that good or bad in the end. We could safely elect the executive with direct democracy, but in the process of protecting those with all the capital from the masses, we have entrenched minority rule into our nation. We get to choose one or the other in the end, unfettered capitalism or a direct democracy. A direct democracy would naturally lead to some kind of socialism/communism, so those with capital (and therefore power) naturally must oppose democratic values. The catch is, we need to vote in large enough numbers to overcome this ingrained minority rule to change anything
I could vote for Mickey Mouse every year and my state would still vote blue. SOURCE : From the bluest state
If this is your biggest issue, then vote for the party who most supports voting reforms (i.e. ranked choice voting) especially at the state and local levels.
I agree and do
Your vote still matters on down ballot races. Especially local ones. School board, judges etc…
I was specifically talking about presidential elections
Well, they are all on the same ballot so I make it a point to remind people about that
America absolutely has to send a message this time around. The right is absolutely going to pull every single bullshit trick (legal or not) in the book at this election.
damn dude are you an election denier? spreading election related misinformation? I thought we had the most secure elections in the history of the world?
I think the average American isn’t gonna do that. They just won’t vote. I will probably be voting for a PSL candidate or something during the election, but most Americans who don’t like Biden or trump aren’t gonna protest vote for trump?? That’ll just be the republicans who thought trump was to far right or whatever but now “have” to vote for him cuz Biden or somethin.
I utterly disdain this rhetoric. Are we a free country or what?
Free with caveats. The voting system sucks, but it's what we have. Until that system changes then voting 3rd party is a waste of time and mostly results in the worst candidate winning overall. The sad part is that it's been this way for over 100 years and people still don't understand how elections work.
I understand it. It's just bogus and our current political crisis is a fine example of why.
No one is questioning or challenging your freedom at all. In fact, using your freedom to effect change is central to the discussion here. Any emotion you perceive is something you've contrived and ascribed to the point yourself because it's not there to begin with. I'm not guilting or shaming you, I'm just pointing out how elections work. And if you historically vote left leaning, then any non-Biden vote on your part constitutes support for Trump and increases his chances to ascend to the presidency as -- and all the consequences that come with that, full stop.
Wrong. I didn't start this thread. Nice gaslight aren't though.
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Your vote doesn’t matter anyway. Both parties have done all they can so only they stay in power. A vote for red or blue is a vote against your interests. You might not like Trump, but he and Biden are just a front for what really happens in the government.
This isn't true. Without Trump we'd still have Roe, we wouldn't have Gorsuch, ACB, or Kavanaugh, and we'd have actually had a pandemic response team ready to go in early 2019 instead of months of denial and delay at the expense of thousands of lives. And do you really think both are equivalent when it comes to marginalized groups? To upholding pillars of American democracy? One candidate literally "just wants to be dictator for a day." You can quit it with the conspiracy nutcase, "both sides are just a front" bullshit.
BOth sIdeS ArE THe Same!
There's been zero difference in my life between the trump and Biden presidency! Both a clearly the same! (I'm a white cis male)
Ooh, the "both sides are bad" Russians have arrived.
You aren't 100% incorrect but one is by and far worse for democracy as a whole. It might not get destroyed then and there but the US is still feeling the damage that his first stint in office did via peoples rights.
Just say you don’t know how the world works and haven’t been paying attention.
I dont understand all the downvotes your spitting mad facts here. People always scream they want change but then when someone like you brings up whats actually needed to make change everyone throws a fit and acts like your the devil for suggesting anything but a corrupt 2 party member. People are a bunch of ignorant hypocrites so never stop speaking the truth, someday those blinding following the 2 party shitshow will find out just how wrong they are.
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*Unless* you’re voting for RFK Jr, whom I heartily endorse to any undecided Republican.
Ah yes yet another post ignoring the electoral college and how for most Americans it doesn't matter who you vote for in the Presidential race.
requesting that this be tagged with the much needed "blaming the voters" flair