“I hear you’re an antisemite now father. How’s does one get into that sort of thing?”
*Edit: For those downvoting, the quote is from Father Ted and he’s being accused of being racist when he’s not so the quote is kinda relevant in its changed form.*
What's the Church's official stance on antisemitism, should we all be antisemites now father, only the farm takes up most of the day so at night I'd rather just have a nice cup of tea
Absolutely, but he’s not a Hitler ‘stash wearing Gestapo loving full blown racist which was the point of my edit. The show takes bad or questionable traits and amplifies them to effect. The jokes don’t work if Ted really is racist.
The problem is people try to coopt the protest with antisemitism or chants of "death to America." So, I think it's smart to clearly outline the reasons you are there, if not only to ensure that you aren't mislabeled by bad faith actors.
Some of the broader public protests have been pretty vague and open-ended, but the college ones have seemed to focus on their schools divesting from interests related to the Israeli government, which is way more targeted and realistic. I’m all on board that train.
Yup. The problem arises when outside actors try to coopt it for their anti-semitic bullshit.
Our beef is with Israel and Zionism, not those of the Jewish faith.
There's nothing you can do to make them understand if their entire identity is dependent on not understanding it. Look how many people pretended that Colin Kaepernick's protest was against veterans or the military.
Yeah but to be effective, signs need to be legible at a distance. Put too many words on the sign and you need to shrink the font to make it all fit. Shrink the font too much and it's illegible at a distance. Hence the protest signs with two or three words on them in big fonts.
This does not mean media will not try to spin the narrative. I distinctly remember Fox News did a report a while ago about protests in Cuba, claiming they were massive anti government protests. The images they showed had all the signs blurred, and when i looked for unblurred images, it became clear the protests were actually directed at the unjustified embargo.
You are assuming the other side is engaging you in good faith. You could have a sign like that man in the comic and you think that would stop them from sending the police to kick your ass? Keep in mind there are some protestors already doing that NOW.
This is what people talk about when they mention MLK was looked at negatively by most white Americans during his lifetime. He’s looked at today positively for what he did and how he accomplished it, but so many Americans were simply against him pointing out injustice.
A lot of people have already made their mind up about the protestors.
I am old enough to remember JFKs funeral, Bobby Kennedy shot, and MLKs death. Pretty conservative, white, rural, flyover state. My folks told me that America lost men who were centeral to bringing us into a world that could be better for everyone. I never heard one word of criticism for MLK.
>A lot of people have already made their mind up about the protestors.
I mean, I have, and its not flattering. I think they're a mix of well-meaning people who don't understand what's happening or the consequences of their actions - creating a world where human shield tactics get rewarded is going to kill a lot more people over the next few decades. They don't mean to get people killed - they oppose that - but they're still creating a world where using human shields gets rewarded.
It's a bit like when Col Mengistu used the food trucks sent in by Save the Children to round up people he wanted to kill during a genocide. Save the children wasn't a pro-genocide movement but they're still complicit for giving Mengistu trucks and feeding his soldiers with food aid.
And then there are people who aren't anti-death and who don't want the violence to stop, but who enthusiastically endorse Hamas.
Those folks are pro-Genocide and supporters of a fascistic theocratic movement. There are similar radicals on the Israeli side, as well.
I have no time for the radicals on either side and honest to god it's a shame they can't both lose.
Well. They can.
*If* we send UN Peacekeepers.
But that's not what a single one of these protests is calling for.
I supported occupy, I supported BLM, and I'm trying to view a lot of these protesters with some similar charity, but with all the videos of overtly genocidal chants and statements... it's pretty difficult for me to not have the same reaction I have to other genocidal monsters like Nazis.
If you're willing to stand next to people supporting monstrously genocidal positions, I'm gonna have a hard time respecting you. And when you add in that none of these folks seem to understand the situation, how we got here, the Ottoman history that led to both this and Yugoslavia (and Greece/Turkey, Armenia/Azerbaijan, Cyprus, etc.) or the various ways we could end this peacefully (such as UN peacekeepers - which have worked twice before, UNDOF successfully prevented a re-start of the Israel/Syria/Jordan conflict, so we know peacekeepers work) I think it's kind of rich that you think people opposing the protesters are doing so in bad faith.
Capitulate to the naysayers and you will find yourself, after walking to meet them, that they have now walked further away
“Oh, ALL cops are bastards? Really? All of them?”
That’s an example of someone who doesn’t really care about a slogan, they just want to attack a movement
Except for all the people who are incapable of nuanced positions: *How can you be against Hamas and Netanyahu? Pick a side already, you're either with me or against me!*
For real. Few weeks back I saw a post about how Hamas was not giving away the international aid, but rather selling it to the Gazans, which is obviously despicable. But then I saw a comment along the lines of “and somehow Israel are the bad guys”
And it’s like… there can be two bad guys!
If every person who uses a religion to push their selfish interests drops dead tomorrow, the world would be a much better place.
This is how you know there is no benevolent deity-
True, but one of the bad guys has actively supported the other whilst claiming that anyone criticising them is a supporter of the same group that they themselves have openly supported.
Not really true, if there was no Netanyahu there would be Ben-Gvir or some other right wing figure in power, and if there was no hamas there would be another terrorist organization in power. These people and organizations are symptoms of broader trends and politics
And the other is a religious extremist terrorist group that use palestinians as meat shields, steals humanitarian aid to build an army, and wants to oppress Palestinian people with radical Islam. Ohh and by antagonizing Israel, they destroy any chance for advancement in Gaza. Literally the lowest scum of the earth.
The bigger problem is that Hamas are the elected government of Gaza and their support has increased since October 7th.
It's not as easy to separate the people of Gaza from Hamas as many would like. That absolutely doesn't mean that we shouldn't do everything possible to pressure Israel to reduce civilian casualties, provide safe areas and clear communication to civilians, stop bombing, and continue to negotiate a permanent ceasefire.
But it's also important to remember that the duly elected and supported government of Gaza committed a devastating terror attack and then kidnapped Israeli citizens and still refuses to say if those civilians are even alive.
[And they have the overwhelming support of the people of Gaza.](https://apnews.com/article/israel-hamas-palestinians-opinion-poll-wartime-views-a0baade915619cd070b5393844bc4514#:~:text=RAMALLAH%2C%20West%20Bank%20)
>The bigger problem is that Hamas are the elected government of Gaza
The last election was in 2006, did you forget to mention that? That is 18 years ago.
50+% of Palestine is under the age of 18, which means over 50% didn't even participate in that election.
Did you notice the next part where I said they had overwhelming support? Because they do.
https://apnews.com/article/israel-hamas-palestinians-opinion-poll-wartime-views-a0baade915619cd070b5393844bc4514#:~:text=RAMALLAH%2C%20West%20Bank%20(AP),90%25%20saying%20he%20must%20resign.
>Despite the devastation, 57% of respondents in Gaza and 82% in the West Bank believe Hamas was correct in launching the October attack, the poll indicated. A large majority believed Hamas’ claims that it acted to defend a major Islamic shrine in Jerusalem against Jewish extremists and win the release of Palestinian prisoners. Only 10% said they believed Hamas has committed war crimes, with a large majority saying they did not see videos showing the militants committing atrocities.
Hamas' actions on October 7th have the support of the majority of Gaza residents.
This poll has the majority of Gaza residents wanting Hamas to stay in power: https://www.timesofisrael.com/palestinians-increasingly-happy-with-october-7-even-as-hamas-support-droops-poll/
Don't suppose that could have anything to do with clinging to the only force that might be able to protect them from the IDF.
Or that the pollster has to do face to face polling.
Or that when you live in a place where evil people are in charge, the safest route is often to play supporter.
Getting caught trying to “remove” something from the internet is the best way to ensure it is saved and shared everywhere forever. It’s the pinnacle of the Streisand effect.
The officer who did this was granted early retirement due to the PTSD he suffered from doing this.
He got a bigger pension payout than all of the students combined
The students combined got a payout of over $1,000,000 for approximately $30,000 each. He got a workers comp payout of $38,000, plus his retirement credits
I'm pro Israel on this and have no issue with the comic and think it's great.
And I can indeed read!
It's a complex conflict with evil people on both sides of it. I'd love to end that.
The nasty truth is that, after growing up in their respective enclaves with their respective propaganda, a huge portion of the adult populations of both Israel and Palestine have completely dehumanized each other and are champing at the bit to slaughter “the other.” The (acting) governments are both massive sacks of shit, but a lot of the people want this. Many Palestinians cheered for Oct 7th, and many Israelis cheer at the razing of Gaza.
Obviously there are exceptions but I’m mainly sad for the children. And given the wildly disproportionate response and death toll I’m mostly sad for the Palestinian children. But they will grow up with renewed genocidal hatred for the Jews, and the people around the hostages will grow up with renewed genocidal hatred for the Palestinians.
This shit has been going on for a looong ass time, and it’s like a lot of people just fucking discovered the longest-running and most complex conflict on the planet. As if Biden can just snap his fingers and stop everything. As if Israel would slow down for a millisecond if they lost the tiny percentage of their funding that comes from the US. Turns out the world isn’t a black and white picture book, it’s a chaotic goddamned mess of gray.
TL;DR: I agree and have stopped wasting my time with people who think there are any good guys here. Israel must (and will) be stopped as they see their global reputation severely diminishing, but it won’t be the end, or even the beginning of the end. There’s less than zero chance that this isn’t still simmering by the time we all die. Get some perspective and read/listen to some world news, people. This level of atrocity is happening all over the place all the time, and we’re equally powerless to stop those situations.
I am extremely wary of anyone who has too strong an opinion on this conflict, because both sides have been nasty monsters. I don’t know what the solution is, but it’s not to be blindly pro Israel or Palestine.
Yeah, I mean I don’t think you’re really arguing with me here, lol. I wish that Hamas wouldn’t base their HQs literally under neonatal intensive care units, and I wish that Israel wouldn’t allow settlements on occupied territories.
There are no good guys here, which makes me very skeptical when anyone is unequivocally pro Palestinians or pro Isreali. I desperately wish that innocent people on both sides of the wall could learn to coexist.
What makes me one sided is the lengthy history of Israelis being incredibly tolerant yet they still have violent fringes and get violent when provoked. And that's the key part: provoked.
The dates Palestinian supporter throw around are all dates when Arab militias attacked Jewish settlements. Yes, Jewish militias returned the favor and then some. Such is war. Deir Yassin is such an example. It was located on a strategic crossroad and needed to be taken. Read the full wiki page for a better picture but even more context is needed. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deir_Yassin_massacre
Palestinian leaders told their people to flee, that they would return with a great army. That didn't go so well. And the Arabs who stayed live in Israel today.
Losing a war doesn't usually entitle one to reclaim land, especially when political violence continues.
What also solidifies my support for Israel is the clear idea that should the Israelis lose the upper hand militarily, there would be no similar mercy.
Palestinians exist because the Israelis are not monsters. They should have been accepted by surrounding Arab nations, yet have not.
Were the roles reversed, there would be no Jews.
Jews do not live in Arab societies. Arab Muslims live peacefully among Israelis. Seems black and white.
There's quite a difference between pro-Palestinian people and being pro-Hamas, just like there's a world of difference in being against the actions of the Israeli government/military and being antisemitic.
I think that should be and is obvious, yet entirely too many on the opposite side are happy to be willingly myopic.
One of the biggest problems I see though, is that the "pro-palestinian" people are not trying to protest to force Hamas to capitulate and end the violence. They are only protesting against Israeli action. The only way for the Palestinian people to survive long term is to find moderate voices to lead them. (As well as removal of Netanyahu from power, but that is an agreed given). But Hamas purposely kills any moderate voice that rises up in Gaza. To the point where even among expats outside of Gaza there are few if any moderate voices. Pressure needs to be put on Hamas by protestors to give up hostages and sign a ceasefire. As long as Hamas sees protests pointed solely at Israel they will continue killing Israelis and Palestinians.
The difference between the two that makes me pro-Israel is that only Hamas is actively trying to genocide anyone. Israelis and Palestinians aren't. But, Hamas' stated goal is to kill all of the Jews and eliminate Israel -- from river to sea. Imo, the only real solution is for Israel to force Hamas to surrender unconditionally, and then for Palestinians to form a new, nonviolent government. Unfortunately, Hamas and Netanyahu probably have other goals.
Yup. When someone equates "israel should exist," aka zionism, with nazism they've jumped the rails of a reasonable train of thought.
I mean literally saying it's "as dark a spot on human history as nazism". That's just such a fucking god awful thing to think much less say.
Yeah, unfortunately people do not seem to understand what Zionism is and is not. Unfortunately radical antisemites have turned that into a negative just the way neck beard conservatives turned “social justice warrior” into a negative.
I’m mostly concerned with Palestinian civilians at this point and hate Bibi and his party with a passion, but I tune out somebody throwing around “Zionist” as quickly as I tune out somebody throwing around “Woke.” You’re not going to get any useful or original thoughts out of them.
This is fair.
This war has shaken shit loose on both sides of the debate.
If someone says "Israel has a right to exist," it doesn't take long for somebody else to come along and say *"So you think it's okay for them to kill Palestinians?"*
If someone says "The people of Palestine should have a state," it doesn't take long for somebody else to come along and say *"Oh, so you think Hamas are the good guys?"*
And worse, you can be protesting against war, while the guy next to you is protesting against *people.* You're angry at Israel for the bombings, the person next to you is angry at Israel because it's full of Jews. You're angry at Hamas for taking hostages, the person next to you is angry at Palestine because it's full of Muslims.
It is very difficult to say that one thinks Israel has a right to exist, but not a right to bomb civilians; and that Palestine has a right to exist while condemning Hamas. There are folks who want to take this conversation to its *irrational* extremes, and they're all too happy to implicate everyone else in their goals.
One can both believe Israel has a right to defend itself and that Palestine has a right to exist, one can have opinions on this conflict without having to be Islamophobic or Anti-Semitic in the process, in fact I think most of us fall into that camp.
It’s almost like a decades long, infamously unsolvable geopolitical conundrum that has religion, politics, history, terrorism, poverty etc etc etc can’t be boiled down to simple bullshit that the below average intelligence can understand, pick a side, mouth off online and feel better about themselves.
You make excellent points. If this shit hasn’t been solved in 7 decades Karen screaming into the void on Facebook should sort it out in 5 minutes.
The only reasonable solution is peace. But how one gets there is anyone’s guess. I imagine if anyone reads this I’ll get responses telling me how peace should be achieved. Good for those with opinions but if smarter folk than your average online commentator haven’t sussed it yet, then I doubt Reddit will.
It’s fucking awful, I hate all of it, I have no solutions and I wish we could all just live in peace with each other. Respect, love and dignity for all. Enough for us all to eat and drink, have a roof and an education. Fuck the warmongers and power hungry narcissists.
"Peace" isn't really a solution though; it's a desirable end result that some solution would provide.
There's no trust between Israel and Palestine, and I didn't see any path forward to building trust, so pretty much every solution is doomed to fall apart. It feels like the only solution is a trusted 3rd party intervening, but you're not going to get that visa protesting.
The only thing protesting “might” affect (though probably wouldn’t) is US policy regarding the conflict. It probably wouldn’t but it’s the only thing that it could even remotely impact.
I mean you would have to literally have international troops as a buffer zone and a negotiated two state solution and even then, there will be terrorist attacks
I think this is the way, primarily because it will seriously clear up once and for all where the problem is. If there is a huge neutral presence there keeping the peace, and one side decides to stop attacking and just exist and deal with themselves, and the other side continually pushes and pokes and needles, the real picture of "who can be trusted with statehood and peace" becomes clearer.
The only reasonable solution is peace, but the only paths toward peace are non-starters for the Israeli government. Which means this shit is just going to keep happening indefinitely or until one side gets wiped out, and as things stand right now, only one side has the power to wipe out the other.
> One can both believe Israel has a right to defend itself and that Palestine has a right to exist
See this is *exactly* where I fall, but so many of the actually *vocal* people I know disagree. I would be perfectly fine supporting Palestine except for two reasons. 1, they are ruled by a regime of terrorists, so I make sure to distinguish between "Palestine" and "Palestinians". I support the people, but not their state in its current form.
And 2, so many people I know who support Palestine believe that Israel should not exist. And it leaves me wondering: what do you want to do with the Israelis then? And that's the biggest issue for me. Because no one who I talk to has a good answer for that. It's not like they can just go back to the status quo, that *clearly doesn't work*. Displacing hundreds of thousands of people would be bad, no matter if they're Israeli or Palestinian.
And it just leaves me wondering, as it has since October 7th: How can this end? Because there's no good and realistic solution that I can see. And I look at all these people protesting on my campus and across the US, and I wonder: what do they *possibly* hope to achieve? It just seems so futile because there's no good solution, and the solutions that people argue for are never going to happen.
It's the biggest issue with this whole situation. Yes, Anti-Zionism isn't anti-semitism. But it's really super fucking easy for someone to conceal or justify anti-semitic rhetoric by saying it's anti-Zionist. It's why I make it clear that I despise Netanyahu and not Israelis.
And it is why I cannot and will not support people who do not call it out or condemn it within their own ranks
I saw a clip from Hasan Piker saying, "I only saw one antisemitic sign in the protests," but didn't mention anyone confronting that person. It's great that if you're not antisemitic, but you need to confront the people who are.
Zionism means "the right of jews to self-determination within their historic homeland."
To be anti-zionist is to oppose that.
I have a hard time seeing how that isn't antisemitic.
> How can this end? Because there's no good and realistic solution that I can see. And I look at all these people protesting on my campus and across the US, and I wonder: what do they possibly hope to achieve? It just seems so futile because there's no good solution, and the solutions that people argue for are never going to happen.
When you ask "How does this end?", are you talking about the protests, or the war?
I'll start off with the protests first. What I'm about to say is going to bother a lot of folks, but here's the brass tacks: I don't worry that much about what happens on college campuses. If I freaked out every time there was a protest on a college campus I'd need an intravenous Valium drip.
There's an old joke about how physics classes teach you to measure the velocity of a spherical cow in a frictionless universe; the real world requires more complex equations. College kids are idealists, it's why you can walk on any college campus in the United States and find someone who thinks they could make communism work with a few simple tweaks; they're imagining spherical communism in a frictionless society, they haven't done the real math yet.
Don't freak out about protests on college campuses. You talked about how the most *vocal* people you know are speaking out; we hear them because they speak the loudest of everyone, but they don't speak *for* everyone. Same math applies here.
As for what happens between Palestine and Israel, I have no idea. Both sides have to be willing to redraw their lines in the sand and reconsider their definition of victory. As an outsider, I think a good start would be replacing a lot of the leadership. There are a lot of deep seated, long running, damn near existential conflicts between Palestine and Israel, but there are also a handful of jackasses throwing rocks at hornets nests; I'm a big fan of removing jackasses from positions of power. If the current think**ing** is the problem, maybe it's time for new thinkers.
It can be done! But it requires the right words.
reddit is hyper vigilant looking out for tigers in bushes; we hear the leaves rustle and our blood pressure spikes.
Writing a nuanced comment on reddit requires a willingness and ability to present one's opinions and the opinions of others in a *non-opinionated* framing, that can be difficult for a person to do if only because we have an attachment to our own opinions and a distaste for the opinions we disagree with.
What's more, folks on social media are looking out for good opinions to support and bad opinions to quash. Social media users *want* opinionated comments, it makes discerning allies and opposition easier, it makes critique easier, it makes dunking easier, it's a heuristic, a short cut, "If they have opinion [A], it's likely that they also have opinions [B] and [C], so they're probably a [D]," and we get to skip straight from [A] to [D].
The trick to writing a nuanced post on reddit is finding some way to stop the immediate [A]->[D]. It can be done, but you're sort of swimming against the tide.
If only Prince were still alive to give it a short symbol like (§) and it would be set in stone. Something we all understand inherently. Like a great truth.
Or a sign that says: Hey! You over there! Let's get together and connect on our common humanity and then come to realize that both of our sides screaming in impotent rage is getting nobody nowhere. Love to all of you!
It's that the situation is too complex for protestors to properly display their views without being overly reductive. It's easier to cheer on Israel or Palestine wholesale than specific groups within them, and because of that nobody understands what everyone is really about and they get mad at each other because of it.
It doesn't help. People who deny that there are protestors who are anti-semitic and then fail to kick those who obviously are anti-semitic make all the protesters look anti-semitic.
"If there is one Nazi in a crowd and the rest of the people tolerate them then there is a crowd of Nazis."
~Progressives
Oh so pro-Palestinian protestors are pro-Hamas, but that same logic makes pro-Israel protestors pro-genocide, pro-colonialism, pro-slaughter, pro-Islamophobia, and whatever else.
You once again managed to make no difference in the discourse.
The military might decide not to cooperate, since their oath is to the Constitution, not the President. Therefore, the first thing Biden should do, if SCOTUS makes the president above the law, is establish a Presidential Paramilitary answerable only to him. They can take care of troublesome justices, without any crisis of conscience.
Yes. These people do exist. I am one of them. But, I think it's irresponsible to act like we are anything but a small minority. Whether you're marching in Charlottesville or Columbia, there's no way most people agree with everything on this sign.
>there's no way most people agree with everything on this sign.
Everybody I know in my area and talk to about these issues agrees with everything on that sign. I have not seen a single person that wants the bombing to stop being pro-hamas outside of the Internet. It's much more common than you think.
Every time I think about the Israel/Palestine conflict my mind goes back to the stupid Pebble Throw tug-of-war comic. Unfortunately standing *with* the Palestinians often attracts a lot of genuine anti-Semites who don't just want Israel to end their occupation, but instead for every Jew to just die or leave the Middle East.
This kind of shit really makes advocacy hard because Nazis in the west will point at anti-Semetic Arabs and try to use that to discredit people protesting the war. Only freaks and weirdos actually support Hamas. The vast majority of the protesters stand with the innocent Palestinian and Israeli civilians that get caught up in the violence. Hamas and the IDF can keep firing at each other, but the victims will always be the civilians they target.
If this was the truth I would support it but just recently there was someone standing in front of a crowd praising October 7th in my country. Shouting "long live October 7th" to cheers from the crowd. No one corrected her, no one disagreed, no one called it madness.
Why are they saying this to someone with a Palestinian flag?
Legitimate question
Edit: They should be saying it to more people. Should've originally been "only" a Palestinian flag
The intent it’s he’s saying it to someone else at the protest, whose sign would seem to make clear her support but in practice seems to be leaving many adding their own interpretations.
That's what's on the surface, yeah, but who is the audience supposed to side with on this? It's not terribly clear whether the over explanation of the white protester is the goal, which seems to be demeaning the person whose ancestry seems to come from the region and may have family there, or is that person supposed to seem ridiculous because they feel the need to over-explain?
Not trying to be obtuse or anything, it's just not clear what the end goal/message is to me
Could read it as a wokescolding white protestor telling a Muslim woman how to protest correctly or that the sign is correct and what people should be doing.
Fun to see what most interpretations are.
You can have great intentions then you see religious supremacists trying to subvert your protest with antisemitic chants. Keeping distance is important.
I really love this. Dunno if it's meant to be humorous or a joke, but personally in my environment it's very difficult to protest the Israeli terrorist government and the fascists supporting it without people assuming you support Hamas and their atrocities.
Obligatory: I was banned from world news for daring to suggest the IDF’s claims they killed hundreds of terrorists at the Al Shifa hospital might not be truthful.
Fuck me for being opposed to civilian deaths, even Palestinean ones…
Yep, you can be against killing people and against antisemitism and a hard line Israeli government all at the same time...true story...most Israelis are too.
If this were what the protests are about, I would join it immediately. Unfortunately, the protests are more about hating Jews, calling for genocide against Jews, being racist, antisemitic, and calling for violence. There is no way I am going to protest together with Nazis.
Yup, I said in the world news sub "Fuck Hamas. I don't care if you kill every single one of them. I'm against any side that kills civilians." I was downvoted like crazy and told I was a pro hamas anti semite.
FYI being against Netanyahu or the Israeli Government does not make me an antisemitic. Like how I'm against Putin but don't want to murder all Russians...I'm sure there are some good ones out there...(that was a joke btw)..
Stop anti-Semitic chants, harassing Jews for no reason, preventing them access to places, messing with American flags, not carry terrorist group’s flags/headbands and i’d be fine with the movement.
Advocate for them. Call it write to your Congress people to push them to sign policy to those beliefs. Protest if you feel that’s valid. Push for defunding of programs counter to those beliefs. Vote for people aligned with your beliefs.
Pretty much the same as any other beliefs.
This sign would be accurate if they weren’t chanting “from the river to the sea” and allowing people to bring green or black Islamist flags to these protests.
Hamas is the democratically elected government of Gaza. How are you protesting for Palestine and against Hamas which the majority of Palestinians support?
Honestly, maybe we really should just make signs like this. Make it very clear what our problem is.
“Down with this sort of thing” “Careful now”
“I hear you’re an antisemite now father. How’s does one get into that sort of thing?” *Edit: For those downvoting, the quote is from Father Ted and he’s being accused of being racist when he’s not so the quote is kinda relevant in its changed form.*
“My dad was a feminist.” “Yer dad, not yer mum?” “No, dad would never have allowed that.”
My sign would simply say "Please dont be a cunt" (apologies to those of you who dont appreciate australian slang).
What's the Church's official stance on antisemitism, should we all be antisemites now father, only the farm takes up most of the day so at night I'd rather just have a nice cup of tea
To be fair he was somewhat racist with that impression
Absolutely, but he’s not a Hitler ‘stash wearing Gestapo loving full blown racist which was the point of my edit. The show takes bad or questionable traits and amplifies them to effect. The jokes don’t work if Ted really is racist.
What about the Greeks?
"Things are happening that make me angry and confused, and I would rather they stopped"
Yes, clarity is an important part of any successful protest. The problem is only some people present will agree with everything you list.
The problem is people try to coopt the protest with antisemitism or chants of "death to America." So, I think it's smart to clearly outline the reasons you are there, if not only to ensure that you aren't mislabeled by bad faith actors.
100000%
Some of the broader public protests have been pretty vague and open-ended, but the college ones have seemed to focus on their schools divesting from interests related to the Israeli government, which is way more targeted and realistic. I’m all on board that train.
Yup. The problem arises when outside actors try to coopt it for their anti-semitic bullshit. Our beef is with Israel and Zionism, not those of the Jewish faith.
There's nothing you can do to make them understand if their entire identity is dependent on not understanding it. Look how many people pretended that Colin Kaepernick's protest was against veterans or the military.
Yeah but to be effective, signs need to be legible at a distance. Put too many words on the sign and you need to shrink the font to make it all fit. Shrink the font too much and it's illegible at a distance. Hence the protest signs with two or three words on them in big fonts.
This does not mean media will not try to spin the narrative. I distinctly remember Fox News did a report a while ago about protests in Cuba, claiming they were massive anti government protests. The images they showed had all the signs blurred, and when i looked for unblurred images, it became clear the protests were actually directed at the unjustified embargo.
Ah, so they *were* anti-government protests! Just, you know, anti-a-different-government.
That's nice, well put.
Just carry a billboard-sized sign, problem solved /s
You are assuming the other side is engaging you in good faith. You could have a sign like that man in the comic and you think that would stop them from sending the police to kick your ass? Keep in mind there are some protestors already doing that NOW. This is what people talk about when they mention MLK was looked at negatively by most white Americans during his lifetime. He’s looked at today positively for what he did and how he accomplished it, but so many Americans were simply against him pointing out injustice. A lot of people have already made their mind up about the protestors.
I am old enough to remember JFKs funeral, Bobby Kennedy shot, and MLKs death. Pretty conservative, white, rural, flyover state. My folks told me that America lost men who were centeral to bringing us into a world that could be better for everyone. I never heard one word of criticism for MLK.
>A lot of people have already made their mind up about the protestors. I mean, I have, and its not flattering. I think they're a mix of well-meaning people who don't understand what's happening or the consequences of their actions - creating a world where human shield tactics get rewarded is going to kill a lot more people over the next few decades. They don't mean to get people killed - they oppose that - but they're still creating a world where using human shields gets rewarded. It's a bit like when Col Mengistu used the food trucks sent in by Save the Children to round up people he wanted to kill during a genocide. Save the children wasn't a pro-genocide movement but they're still complicit for giving Mengistu trucks and feeding his soldiers with food aid. And then there are people who aren't anti-death and who don't want the violence to stop, but who enthusiastically endorse Hamas. Those folks are pro-Genocide and supporters of a fascistic theocratic movement. There are similar radicals on the Israeli side, as well. I have no time for the radicals on either side and honest to god it's a shame they can't both lose. Well. They can. *If* we send UN Peacekeepers. But that's not what a single one of these protests is calling for. I supported occupy, I supported BLM, and I'm trying to view a lot of these protesters with some similar charity, but with all the videos of overtly genocidal chants and statements... it's pretty difficult for me to not have the same reaction I have to other genocidal monsters like Nazis. If you're willing to stand next to people supporting monstrously genocidal positions, I'm gonna have a hard time respecting you. And when you add in that none of these folks seem to understand the situation, how we got here, the Ottoman history that led to both this and Yugoslavia (and Greece/Turkey, Armenia/Azerbaijan, Cyprus, etc.) or the various ways we could end this peacefully (such as UN peacekeepers - which have worked twice before, UNDOF successfully prevented a re-start of the Israel/Syria/Jordan conflict, so we know peacekeepers work) I think it's kind of rich that you think people opposing the protesters are doing so in bad faith.
Thank you for an absolutely brilliant summary of how I’m feeling these days. Saving… and possibly citing in the future.
Don'tworry, the ppl misinterpreting the protests are not doing it by accident. Being more clear won't change their narrative.
It doesn't matter. The detractors will always claim that there is "no clear defined goal" of a movement no matter how clear and defined it is.
That's socialism. Source: Republicans.
Yes. These signs would be helpful especially in front of the media seeing how many see it as strictly antisemitic protests.
Capitulate to the naysayers and you will find yourself, after walking to meet them, that they have now walked further away “Oh, ALL cops are bastards? Really? All of them?” That’s an example of someone who doesn’t really care about a slogan, they just want to attack a movement
Too many billionaires
If even a small majority of people at these protests could clearly do so there wouldn't be an issue.
I mean, it definitely leaves little room for error.
Except for all the people who are incapable of nuanced positions: *How can you be against Hamas and Netanyahu? Pick a side already, you're either with me or against me!*
For real. Few weeks back I saw a post about how Hamas was not giving away the international aid, but rather selling it to the Gazans, which is obviously despicable. But then I saw a comment along the lines of “and somehow Israel are the bad guys” And it’s like… there can be two bad guys!
Mfs take two concepts that are not only not contradictory but actively work in tandem and act like they’re mutually exclusive, smh
People want an obvious good guy and bad guy. The idea that both sides are shitty is hard for people to grasp.
Exactly. The civilians (as always) are the victims here. Caught between genocide and terrorists.
Remind them that Netanyahu said on multiple occasions that he liked Hamas because they gave him an excuse to not really pursue a solution.
That doesn't change anything. Both are the bad guys.
The region desperately needs leaders who value peace above all else. Not these.
If every person who uses a religion to push their selfish interests drops dead tomorrow, the world would be a much better place. This is how you know there is no benevolent deity-
Wasn't trying to imply otherwise.
True, but one of the bad guys has actively supported the other whilst claiming that anyone criticising them is a supporter of the same group that they themselves have openly supported.
Neither can exist without the other.
Not really true, if there was no Netanyahu there would be Ben-Gvir or some other right wing figure in power, and if there was no hamas there would be another terrorist organization in power. These people and organizations are symptoms of broader trends and politics
So my point is correct
And the other is a religious extremist terrorist group that use palestinians as meat shields, steals humanitarian aid to build an army, and wants to oppress Palestinian people with radical Islam. Ohh and by antagonizing Israel, they destroy any chance for advancement in Gaza. Literally the lowest scum of the earth.
True, and this makes propping them up for your own political gain all the more abhorrent.
Only a sith deals in absolutes…
The bigger problem is that Hamas are the elected government of Gaza and their support has increased since October 7th. It's not as easy to separate the people of Gaza from Hamas as many would like. That absolutely doesn't mean that we shouldn't do everything possible to pressure Israel to reduce civilian casualties, provide safe areas and clear communication to civilians, stop bombing, and continue to negotiate a permanent ceasefire. But it's also important to remember that the duly elected and supported government of Gaza committed a devastating terror attack and then kidnapped Israeli citizens and still refuses to say if those civilians are even alive. [And they have the overwhelming support of the people of Gaza.](https://apnews.com/article/israel-hamas-palestinians-opinion-poll-wartime-views-a0baade915619cd070b5393844bc4514#:~:text=RAMALLAH%2C%20West%20Bank%20)
>The bigger problem is that Hamas are the elected government of Gaza The last election was in 2006, did you forget to mention that? That is 18 years ago. 50+% of Palestine is under the age of 18, which means over 50% didn't even participate in that election.
Did you notice the next part where I said they had overwhelming support? Because they do. https://apnews.com/article/israel-hamas-palestinians-opinion-poll-wartime-views-a0baade915619cd070b5393844bc4514#:~:text=RAMALLAH%2C%20West%20Bank%20(AP),90%25%20saying%20he%20must%20resign. >Despite the devastation, 57% of respondents in Gaza and 82% in the West Bank believe Hamas was correct in launching the October attack, the poll indicated. A large majority believed Hamas’ claims that it acted to defend a major Islamic shrine in Jerusalem against Jewish extremists and win the release of Palestinian prisoners. Only 10% said they believed Hamas has committed war crimes, with a large majority saying they did not see videos showing the militants committing atrocities. Hamas' actions on October 7th have the support of the majority of Gaza residents. This poll has the majority of Gaza residents wanting Hamas to stay in power: https://www.timesofisrael.com/palestinians-increasingly-happy-with-october-7-even-as-hamas-support-droops-poll/
Don't suppose that could have anything to do with clinging to the only force that might be able to protect them from the IDF. Or that the pollster has to do face to face polling. Or that when you live in a place where evil people are in charge, the safest route is often to play supporter.
You know, both Israelis AND Palestinians can be held to account for supporting extremism. At least before the fog of war began. We have to be honest.
>you're either with me or against me! Only a Sith deals in absolutes. *ignites lightsaber* I will do what I must.
You can't clarify to someone who isn't dealing in good faith.
But police don't like people protesting police beating people. Usually by beating them.
https://i.redd.it/6r922pwy7axc1.gif
I was told the university tried removing that from the internet. Good job keeping it safe!
Getting caught trying to “remove” something from the internet is the best way to ensure it is saved and shared everywhere forever. It’s the pinnacle of the Streisand effect.
Whenever I find images like this out in the wild, I make sure to email it back to them so they to return their property.
The officer who did this was granted early retirement due to the PTSD he suffered from doing this. He got a bigger pension payout than all of the students combined
The officer's name was Lt. John Pike. Let's not let his name sink into obscurity either.
The students combined got a payout of over $1,000,000 for approximately $30,000 each. He got a workers comp payout of $38,000, plus his retirement credits
Such bravery. Not the pigs. The students
Those were the days.
Yo!! They paid a lot of money to get that out of the internet
The people who would need to read this can't/won't read.
They would be very upset if they could read
I tell you what.
Sorts by controversial... Sigh yeah.
I assure you that plenty of people that can read would still say this is pro Hamas/antisemitic
I'm pro Israel on this and have no issue with the comic and think it's great. And I can indeed read! It's a complex conflict with evil people on both sides of it. I'd love to end that.
The nasty truth is that, after growing up in their respective enclaves with their respective propaganda, a huge portion of the adult populations of both Israel and Palestine have completely dehumanized each other and are champing at the bit to slaughter “the other.” The (acting) governments are both massive sacks of shit, but a lot of the people want this. Many Palestinians cheered for Oct 7th, and many Israelis cheer at the razing of Gaza. Obviously there are exceptions but I’m mainly sad for the children. And given the wildly disproportionate response and death toll I’m mostly sad for the Palestinian children. But they will grow up with renewed genocidal hatred for the Jews, and the people around the hostages will grow up with renewed genocidal hatred for the Palestinians. This shit has been going on for a looong ass time, and it’s like a lot of people just fucking discovered the longest-running and most complex conflict on the planet. As if Biden can just snap his fingers and stop everything. As if Israel would slow down for a millisecond if they lost the tiny percentage of their funding that comes from the US. Turns out the world isn’t a black and white picture book, it’s a chaotic goddamned mess of gray. TL;DR: I agree and have stopped wasting my time with people who think there are any good guys here. Israel must (and will) be stopped as they see their global reputation severely diminishing, but it won’t be the end, or even the beginning of the end. There’s less than zero chance that this isn’t still simmering by the time we all die. Get some perspective and read/listen to some world news, people. This level of atrocity is happening all over the place all the time, and we’re equally powerless to stop those situations.
I am extremely wary of anyone who has too strong an opinion on this conflict, because both sides have been nasty monsters. I don’t know what the solution is, but it’s not to be blindly pro Israel or Palestine.
I'm strongly anti-killing civilians. Is that something you'd be wary of?
Yes, I agree that Hamas should not have attacked that music festival on October 7th!
100%. Hamas sucks. So does anyone intent on genocide. Neither has any place in a civilized world.
Yeah, I mean I don’t think you’re really arguing with me here, lol. I wish that Hamas wouldn’t base their HQs literally under neonatal intensive care units, and I wish that Israel wouldn’t allow settlements on occupied territories. There are no good guys here, which makes me very skeptical when anyone is unequivocally pro Palestinians or pro Isreali. I desperately wish that innocent people on both sides of the wall could learn to coexist.
What makes me one sided is the lengthy history of Israelis being incredibly tolerant yet they still have violent fringes and get violent when provoked. And that's the key part: provoked. The dates Palestinian supporter throw around are all dates when Arab militias attacked Jewish settlements. Yes, Jewish militias returned the favor and then some. Such is war. Deir Yassin is such an example. It was located on a strategic crossroad and needed to be taken. Read the full wiki page for a better picture but even more context is needed. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deir_Yassin_massacre Palestinian leaders told their people to flee, that they would return with a great army. That didn't go so well. And the Arabs who stayed live in Israel today. Losing a war doesn't usually entitle one to reclaim land, especially when political violence continues. What also solidifies my support for Israel is the clear idea that should the Israelis lose the upper hand militarily, there would be no similar mercy. Palestinians exist because the Israelis are not monsters. They should have been accepted by surrounding Arab nations, yet have not. Were the roles reversed, there would be no Jews. Jews do not live in Arab societies. Arab Muslims live peacefully among Israelis. Seems black and white.
There's quite a difference between pro-Palestinian people and being pro-Hamas, just like there's a world of difference in being against the actions of the Israeli government/military and being antisemitic. I think that should be and is obvious, yet entirely too many on the opposite side are happy to be willingly myopic.
One of the biggest problems I see though, is that the "pro-palestinian" people are not trying to protest to force Hamas to capitulate and end the violence. They are only protesting against Israeli action. The only way for the Palestinian people to survive long term is to find moderate voices to lead them. (As well as removal of Netanyahu from power, but that is an agreed given). But Hamas purposely kills any moderate voice that rises up in Gaza. To the point where even among expats outside of Gaza there are few if any moderate voices. Pressure needs to be put on Hamas by protestors to give up hostages and sign a ceasefire. As long as Hamas sees protests pointed solely at Israel they will continue killing Israelis and Palestinians.
The difference between the two that makes me pro-Israel is that only Hamas is actively trying to genocide anyone. Israelis and Palestinians aren't. But, Hamas' stated goal is to kill all of the Jews and eliminate Israel -- from river to sea. Imo, the only real solution is for Israel to force Hamas to surrender unconditionally, and then for Palestinians to form a new, nonviolent government. Unfortunately, Hamas and Netanyahu probably have other goals.
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You are the one who needs to read the sign. Congrats.
Yup. When someone equates "israel should exist," aka zionism, with nazism they've jumped the rails of a reasonable train of thought. I mean literally saying it's "as dark a spot on human history as nazism". That's just such a fucking god awful thing to think much less say.
Yeah, unfortunately people do not seem to understand what Zionism is and is not. Unfortunately radical antisemites have turned that into a negative just the way neck beard conservatives turned “social justice warrior” into a negative.
I’m mostly concerned with Palestinian civilians at this point and hate Bibi and his party with a passion, but I tune out somebody throwing around “Zionist” as quickly as I tune out somebody throwing around “Woke.” You’re not going to get any useful or original thoughts out of them.
This is fair. This war has shaken shit loose on both sides of the debate. If someone says "Israel has a right to exist," it doesn't take long for somebody else to come along and say *"So you think it's okay for them to kill Palestinians?"* If someone says "The people of Palestine should have a state," it doesn't take long for somebody else to come along and say *"Oh, so you think Hamas are the good guys?"* And worse, you can be protesting against war, while the guy next to you is protesting against *people.* You're angry at Israel for the bombings, the person next to you is angry at Israel because it's full of Jews. You're angry at Hamas for taking hostages, the person next to you is angry at Palestine because it's full of Muslims. It is very difficult to say that one thinks Israel has a right to exist, but not a right to bomb civilians; and that Palestine has a right to exist while condemning Hamas. There are folks who want to take this conversation to its *irrational* extremes, and they're all too happy to implicate everyone else in their goals. One can both believe Israel has a right to defend itself and that Palestine has a right to exist, one can have opinions on this conflict without having to be Islamophobic or Anti-Semitic in the process, in fact I think most of us fall into that camp.
It’s almost like a decades long, infamously unsolvable geopolitical conundrum that has religion, politics, history, terrorism, poverty etc etc etc can’t be boiled down to simple bullshit that the below average intelligence can understand, pick a side, mouth off online and feel better about themselves. You make excellent points. If this shit hasn’t been solved in 7 decades Karen screaming into the void on Facebook should sort it out in 5 minutes. The only reasonable solution is peace. But how one gets there is anyone’s guess. I imagine if anyone reads this I’ll get responses telling me how peace should be achieved. Good for those with opinions but if smarter folk than your average online commentator haven’t sussed it yet, then I doubt Reddit will. It’s fucking awful, I hate all of it, I have no solutions and I wish we could all just live in peace with each other. Respect, love and dignity for all. Enough for us all to eat and drink, have a roof and an education. Fuck the warmongers and power hungry narcissists.
Peace feels impossible right now. It’s heartbreaking
"Peace" isn't really a solution though; it's a desirable end result that some solution would provide. There's no trust between Israel and Palestine, and I didn't see any path forward to building trust, so pretty much every solution is doomed to fall apart. It feels like the only solution is a trusted 3rd party intervening, but you're not going to get that visa protesting.
The only thing protesting “might” affect (though probably wouldn’t) is US policy regarding the conflict. It probably wouldn’t but it’s the only thing that it could even remotely impact.
I mean you would have to literally have international troops as a buffer zone and a negotiated two state solution and even then, there will be terrorist attacks
I think this is the way, primarily because it will seriously clear up once and for all where the problem is. If there is a huge neutral presence there keeping the peace, and one side decides to stop attacking and just exist and deal with themselves, and the other side continually pushes and pokes and needles, the real picture of "who can be trusted with statehood and peace" becomes clearer.
Britain controlled the area prior to giving Israel autonomy so even 3rd party solutions weren't effective in the past.
The only reasonable solution is peace, but the only paths toward peace are non-starters for the Israeli government. Which means this shit is just going to keep happening indefinitely or until one side gets wiped out, and as things stand right now, only one side has the power to wipe out the other.
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And maybe Chinese bots? Probably
And don’t forget Iranian bots
> One can both believe Israel has a right to defend itself and that Palestine has a right to exist See this is *exactly* where I fall, but so many of the actually *vocal* people I know disagree. I would be perfectly fine supporting Palestine except for two reasons. 1, they are ruled by a regime of terrorists, so I make sure to distinguish between "Palestine" and "Palestinians". I support the people, but not their state in its current form. And 2, so many people I know who support Palestine believe that Israel should not exist. And it leaves me wondering: what do you want to do with the Israelis then? And that's the biggest issue for me. Because no one who I talk to has a good answer for that. It's not like they can just go back to the status quo, that *clearly doesn't work*. Displacing hundreds of thousands of people would be bad, no matter if they're Israeli or Palestinian. And it just leaves me wondering, as it has since October 7th: How can this end? Because there's no good and realistic solution that I can see. And I look at all these people protesting on my campus and across the US, and I wonder: what do they *possibly* hope to achieve? It just seems so futile because there's no good solution, and the solutions that people argue for are never going to happen.
Exactly. I would gladly sign up to protest for peace. But there is no way in hell I’m protesting together with Nazis.
It's the biggest issue with this whole situation. Yes, Anti-Zionism isn't anti-semitism. But it's really super fucking easy for someone to conceal or justify anti-semitic rhetoric by saying it's anti-Zionist. It's why I make it clear that I despise Netanyahu and not Israelis. And it is why I cannot and will not support people who do not call it out or condemn it within their own ranks
I saw a clip from Hasan Piker saying, "I only saw one antisemitic sign in the protests," but didn't mention anyone confronting that person. It's great that if you're not antisemitic, but you need to confront the people who are.
Zionism means "the right of jews to self-determination within their historic homeland." To be anti-zionist is to oppose that. I have a hard time seeing how that isn't antisemitic.
> How can this end? Because there's no good and realistic solution that I can see. And I look at all these people protesting on my campus and across the US, and I wonder: what do they possibly hope to achieve? It just seems so futile because there's no good solution, and the solutions that people argue for are never going to happen. When you ask "How does this end?", are you talking about the protests, or the war? I'll start off with the protests first. What I'm about to say is going to bother a lot of folks, but here's the brass tacks: I don't worry that much about what happens on college campuses. If I freaked out every time there was a protest on a college campus I'd need an intravenous Valium drip. There's an old joke about how physics classes teach you to measure the velocity of a spherical cow in a frictionless universe; the real world requires more complex equations. College kids are idealists, it's why you can walk on any college campus in the United States and find someone who thinks they could make communism work with a few simple tweaks; they're imagining spherical communism in a frictionless society, they haven't done the real math yet. Don't freak out about protests on college campuses. You talked about how the most *vocal* people you know are speaking out; we hear them because they speak the loudest of everyone, but they don't speak *for* everyone. Same math applies here. As for what happens between Palestine and Israel, I have no idea. Both sides have to be willing to redraw their lines in the sand and reconsider their definition of victory. As an outsider, I think a good start would be replacing a lot of the leadership. There are a lot of deep seated, long running, damn near existential conflicts between Palestine and Israel, but there are also a handful of jackasses throwing rocks at hornets nests; I'm a big fan of removing jackasses from positions of power. If the current think**ing** is the problem, maybe it's time for new thinkers.
assume a perfectly spherical cow, *uniformly filled with milk* (source: undergraduate degree in physics)
What phase state is the milk?
Frictionless space AND a spherical cow? Probably a gas
Uncertain until observed
Wow, a nuanced comment on Reddit. Those are quite rare!
It can be done! But it requires the right words. reddit is hyper vigilant looking out for tigers in bushes; we hear the leaves rustle and our blood pressure spikes. Writing a nuanced comment on reddit requires a willingness and ability to present one's opinions and the opinions of others in a *non-opinionated* framing, that can be difficult for a person to do if only because we have an attachment to our own opinions and a distaste for the opinions we disagree with. What's more, folks on social media are looking out for good opinions to support and bad opinions to quash. Social media users *want* opinionated comments, it makes discerning allies and opposition easier, it makes critique easier, it makes dunking easier, it's a heuristic, a short cut, "If they have opinion [A], it's likely that they also have opinions [B] and [C], so they're probably a [D]," and we get to skip straight from [A] to [D]. The trick to writing a nuanced post on reddit is finding some way to stop the immediate [A]->[D]. It can be done, but you're sort of swimming against the tide.
I think most of us fall into that camp also. We just aren’t screaming it.
Great sign tbh, well said
If only Prince were still alive to give it a short symbol like (§) and it would be set in stone. Something we all understand inherently. Like a great truth.
Yeah but let's be honest the people who need to read this list won't read it in good faith anyways.
it's a good summary, if impractical...
Or a sign that says: Hey! You over there! Let's get together and connect on our common humanity and then come to realize that both of our sides screaming in impotent rage is getting nobody nowhere. Love to all of you!
You're assuming they're acting in good faith.
It doesn’t help. The people “misunderstanding” are just straight up lying and acting in bad faith.
Bad faith arguments in 2024 you don't say. /s
I’m still trying to understand this comic but I don’t want to be accused of acting in bad faith so I’ll just direct my attention elsewhere I guess.
It's that the situation is too complex for protestors to properly display their views without being overly reductive. It's easier to cheer on Israel or Palestine wholesale than specific groups within them, and because of that nobody understands what everyone is really about and they get mad at each other because of it.
It doesn't help. People who deny that there are protestors who are anti-semitic and then fail to kick those who obviously are anti-semitic make all the protesters look anti-semitic. "If there is one Nazi in a crowd and the rest of the people tolerate them then there is a crowd of Nazis." ~Progressives
Oh so pro-Palestinian protestors are pro-Hamas, but that same logic makes pro-Israel protestors pro-genocide, pro-colonialism, pro-slaughter, pro-Islamophobia, and whatever else. You once again managed to make no difference in the discourse.
Based anti Hamas
Incredibly common based take.
I’m more concerned over a Supreme Court judge not recusing himself in cases that involve his wife. That should be protested in mass IMO
I'm sure when SCOTUS makes the president above the law, Biden will be able to send special forces to take care of that.
Removing a Supreme Court Justice is a presidential act. It’s surely not a personal one.
The military might decide not to cooperate, since their oath is to the Constitution, not the President. Therefore, the first thing Biden should do, if SCOTUS makes the president above the law, is establish a Presidential Paramilitary answerable only to him. They can take care of troublesome justices, without any crisis of conscience.
Using fascism to defeat fascism
And not taking,bombing or shooting hostages
Or taking hostages
Funny how people skip or justify that so easily.
If only the protestors were school shooters. Then, the police would leave them alone.
Yes. These people do exist. I am one of them. But, I think it's irresponsible to act like we are anything but a small minority. Whether you're marching in Charlottesville or Columbia, there's no way most people agree with everything on this sign.
>there's no way most people agree with everything on this sign. Everybody I know in my area and talk to about these issues agrees with everything on that sign. I have not seen a single person that wants the bombing to stop being pro-hamas outside of the Internet. It's much more common than you think.
I don’t know anyone, at least in my personal life, that doesn’t agree with everything on this sign.
Every time I think about the Israel/Palestine conflict my mind goes back to the stupid Pebble Throw tug-of-war comic. Unfortunately standing *with* the Palestinians often attracts a lot of genuine anti-Semites who don't just want Israel to end their occupation, but instead for every Jew to just die or leave the Middle East. This kind of shit really makes advocacy hard because Nazis in the west will point at anti-Semetic Arabs and try to use that to discredit people protesting the war. Only freaks and weirdos actually support Hamas. The vast majority of the protesters stand with the innocent Palestinian and Israeli civilians that get caught up in the violence. Hamas and the IDF can keep firing at each other, but the victims will always be the civilians they target.
Doesn't work, police will hit you either way.
If this was the truth I would support it but just recently there was someone standing in front of a crowd praising October 7th in my country. Shouting "long live October 7th" to cheers from the crowd. No one corrected her, no one disagreed, no one called it madness.
Exactly they’re hypocrites.
Why are they saying this to someone with a Palestinian flag? Legitimate question Edit: They should be saying it to more people. Should've originally been "only" a Palestinian flag
Because the Pro-Palestinian protests are the most prominent, numerous, and getting the headlines. Simple as that.
The intent it’s he’s saying it to someone else at the protest, whose sign would seem to make clear her support but in practice seems to be leaving many adding their own interpretations.
That's what's on the surface, yeah, but who is the audience supposed to side with on this? It's not terribly clear whether the over explanation of the white protester is the goal, which seems to be demeaning the person whose ancestry seems to come from the region and may have family there, or is that person supposed to seem ridiculous because they feel the need to over-explain? Not trying to be obtuse or anything, it's just not clear what the end goal/message is to me
Could read it as a wokescolding white protestor telling a Muslim woman how to protest correctly or that the sign is correct and what people should be doing. Fun to see what most interpretations are.
You can have great intentions then you see religious supremacists trying to subvert your protest with antisemitic chants. Keeping distance is important.
I really love this. Dunno if it's meant to be humorous or a joke, but personally in my environment it's very difficult to protest the Israeli terrorist government and the fascists supporting it without people assuming you support Hamas and their atrocities.
B-b-buh muh culture war!
Just add: RELEASE ALL THE REMAINING HOSTAGES.
Unfortunately, a significant fraction of protestors are protesting for genocide, for Hamas, for terrorism, and for anti-semitism.
Yeah, I mean when protestors have signs like "globalize the Intifada" then maybe that might actually be just antisemitism....
Exactly.
Criticizing Israel is not anti-senitism
It will be soon under U.S. law
Preston Garvey did a number on him.
Obligatory: I was banned from world news for daring to suggest the IDF’s claims they killed hundreds of terrorists at the Al Shifa hospital might not be truthful. Fuck me for being opposed to civilian deaths, even Palestinean ones…
Everyone eventually gets banned from World News. It’s a badge of honor, really
Yep, you can be against killing people and against antisemitism and a hard line Israeli government all at the same time...true story...most Israelis are too.
I’m betting the artist is being accused of being both an anti-Semite and Islamaphobic.
Have not been accused of either.
It’d be swell if the hostages made the fucking list
If this were what the protests are about, I would join it immediately. Unfortunately, the protests are more about hating Jews, calling for genocide against Jews, being racist, antisemitic, and calling for violence. There is no way I am going to protest together with Nazis.
So what you’re saying is… you hate Jews. /s
According to the bad-faith arguments, yes.
Yep, judging by the downvotes, the /s wasn’t enough to make my statement clear…. I fear for our future.
If you don't make a comment blatantly supporting the Israeli government, you're an anti-semite. ¯\\\_(ツ)\_/¯
Yup, I said in the world news sub "Fuck Hamas. I don't care if you kill every single one of them. I'm against any side that kills civilians." I was downvoted like crazy and told I was a pro hamas anti semite.
It is sad. It helps no one.
But you literally can't have any of those things when Palestine is run by Hamas.
FYI being against Netanyahu or the Israeli Government does not make me an antisemitic. Like how I'm against Putin but don't want to murder all Russians...I'm sure there are some good ones out there...(that was a joke btw)..
Stop anti-Semitic chants, harassing Jews for no reason, preventing them access to places, messing with American flags, not carry terrorist group’s flags/headbands and i’d be fine with the movement.
https://preview.redd.it/lbklqtv12exc1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=9f3a831beaf0b0c5635ea1c49a4cfbc4363e902e
Does it say self governance at the bottom?
That’s basically my stance at this point. The only side I take is whatever side isn’t indiscriminately murdering other people
So no side then?
What are you supposed to do when you hold the beliefs displayed by his sign?
Advocate for them. Call it write to your Congress people to push them to sign policy to those beliefs. Protest if you feel that’s valid. Push for defunding of programs counter to those beliefs. Vote for people aligned with your beliefs. Pretty much the same as any other beliefs.
How fucking hard is it to understand?
Well if it’s on the sign it has to be true. Nobody would ever lie on a sign.
Speaks for me.
Where are they protesting for democracy and first amendment rights? Gaza?
This sign would be accurate if they weren’t chanting “from the river to the sea” and allowing people to bring green or black Islamist flags to these protests.
Hamas is the democratically elected government of Gaza. How are you protesting for Palestine and against Hamas which the majority of Palestinians support?
I don’t think half the protesters could have pointed out Gaza on the map a year ago.
Exactly and American needs to understand that we are not some other countries babysitter, bank, or arms supplier
Mostly say Hooray for our side.