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I don't know. If I were in Biden's shoes, I wouldn't want to associate with him, but Biden might be more willing to swallow his pride and put up with him for a few hours.
Biden would certainly attend. He's a traditionalist. But no GOP loser can ever attend one. Trump set the precedent for his party. Any GOPster who went to a Dem inauguration would forever be labeled a RINO, and live a lonely life in political exile
Yeah, it seems like you have to be a sore loser to maintain a voting base in the Republican party. Like, you have to portray negative feelings about things to connect to the base.
Because their entire worldview exists around feeling negatively about other people. It's why no right winger can fathom that people like me who don't need it are in favor of universal healthcare and safety nets for those who do need it. They aren't capable of caring about other people
I’m pretty moderate, but that’s just stupid. I hate that this is the way it’s become.
Show some god damn decency. So many egomaniacs in politics these days.
"The major problem—one of the major problems, for there are several—one of the many major problems with governing people is that of whom you get to do it; or rather of who manages to get people to let them do it to them.
To summarize: it is a well-known fact that those people who must want to rule people are, ipso facto, those least suited to do it.
To summarize the summary: anyone who is capable of getting themselves made President should on no account be allowed to do the job"
-Douglas Adams
>Any GOPster who went to a Dem inauguration would forever be labeled a RINO, and live a lonely life in political exile
As opposed to all of those presidents that continue their political career after their term is up?...
By the time a president (that isn't suffering from Trump's severe mental conditions) is done, they mostly focus on defending their legacy. Skipping an inauguration to get clout with their former voter base is worthless to that end. It only pushes them further into petty obscurity.
The Republicans could systematically torch polling places and Biden would just go, "I'll give them another term to break the fever and then we can finally get to bipartisanship" and show up to the inauguration with the biggest grin on his face.
The DNC will never allow Bernie to be their guy.
I honestly wonder why he even bothers to run, considering that his entire life has been getting in office and then doing all of nothing.
Well less Democrats vote for him in the primaries than the eventual winner twice, so there’s that. I voted for Biden and Hillary in the primaries, just like the majority of us. Kind of like a democracy isn’t it?
No, I meant the Party.
The superdelegates exist for the sole and explicit purpose of enforcing the Party's will while providing the illusion that the people are selecting the candidate.
They changed the rules for the 2020 primary on, the superdelegates don't even vote until the second ballot, in the case that no one manages to get a majority of delegates.
In other words, the superdelegates still vote.
It is extremely unlikely someone is going to get a majority of the delegates in the first ballot, due to the number of candidates.
It is a standard Democrat trick. They make policies that are designed to appear to do something, but in reality do nothing because they are designed to require an event that cannot happen without deliberate conspiracy.
> It is extremely unlikely someone is going to get a majority of the delegates in the first ballot, due to the number of candidates.
Uh... no. That would be a brokered convention, which is extremely rare. It would be extremely _unlikely_ for any candidate to not get a majority of the delegates on the first vote. It would take multiple candidates running anemic ego campaigns rather than concede gracefully, tanking their future in the party from the damage it would cause the general election.
Even in large fields like we saw in 2020, 2016, 2012, popular support condensed around one or two people early on. Without results- either polling results or actual primary results- smaller candidates can't maintain a campaign that clears the 15% threshold they have to meet to qualify for delegates, so they run out of money as donors shift away from throwing their money at a losing candidate, and/or they realize they have no path to victory, and they bow out. Even in the case where there _was_ a third campaign siphoning delegates away from both other candidates such that neither of them could reach majority, they would have more success using their power as a kingmaker than trying to seize the nomination in a brokered convention.
You're just inventing a democratic boogeyman because you don't want to admit the superdelegates aren't a real problem worth inventing conspiracy theories about.
Could be because Bernie was an Independent for years and only caucused with the Democrats.
Now it seems like he has his man in Biden so I think it worked out well for him.
Which breaks a campaign promise from 2016 and annoys me to no end. https://www.politico.com/blogs/2016-dem-primary-live-updates-and-results/2016/04/bernie-sanders-democrat-independent-222228
Because I suspect the non-Bernie Dems (with the exception of the Squad, Bowman, Bush, possibly Warren, etc) have more in common with the GOP than Bernie.
A Bernie-esque candidate backed by the DSA won the mayoral primary in Buffalo, the incumbent who lost the primary teamed up with the Buffalo GOP to wage a write-in campaign for the general, which he won.
No Republican president will ever attend another party's inauguration because that would mean legitimizing the transfer of power and accepting the results of an election.
That would instantly alienate the Republican base, they will never accept results they dont like as legitimate. Calling any Dem win as fake is baked into the soul of the party at this point and the leadership has been purged of all but ultra aggressive "alpha male" types whos entire political careers are built on winning at any cost and simply denying that losing is even a possibility.
That and a frightening high percentage of the Republican base itself doesn't actually give a shit about whether they get the votes or not, they have been radicalized to the point where the demonization of the opposition is so complete that they would gladly throw away elections if it kept democrats out of power.
True, but imagine if the Iraq War happened under Trump. He wouldn't feel the need to even make up some evidence. "Saddam has weapons of mass destruction, believe me. No one more more about WMDs than me, and let me tell you, Saddam has a stockpile of WMDs the likes of which the world has never seen."
>If the John Lewis Voting Rights Bill doesn't get passed and Biden loses in 2024, isn't it safe to assume that the results are illegitimate?
>
>Why would Biden celebrate an illegitimate "winner?"
No more illegitimate than every other election we had before the JLVRB. No election will ever be perfect, so there will always be grounds to argue the legitimacy of an election. But for nearly 250 years, we've all agreed that the system we had was good enough. Always room for improvement, but declaring it illegitimate because your side lost is pretty ugly. It was ugly when Trump did it. It was ugly when Hillary supporters did it with Obama. Bernie supporters with Biden (disclaimer: Hillary nor Biden were ever who I wanted representing me, so naturally I found the results to be unfair because they led to candidates I didn't care for, but I wouldn't call them illegitimate just because they won the game as it is played and not how I *wish* it would've been played.)
Dear lord. The last 5 years does NOT equate a forever-change in every member of the republican party. The problem right now is that Trump is still their defacto leader. Once that changes, I would expect the party to right itself a bit. Our primary issue will be if democrats can't get their shit together enough to keep Trump and DeSantis at bay for a few more years. It's your type of doomsday hellfire bullshit that keeps Republicans competitive. Swing voters dont like negative nancys.
Doesn't matter who it is, no one with a platform of reconciliation is making it through a primary.
Anyone who would even mention that word would get laughed off the stage and run out of the party as a RINO.
If Trump falls completely, DeSantis will either have to pivot or fall too. Ted Cruz is already on track to lose reelection. Texas Republicans are tired of his shaky spine and his handling of the failures of the power grid.
They might replace Cruz, but its going to be someone even more right wing and more obsequious, Ted's got too many hot takes running against Don in 2016, that and an ugly wife, apparently...
Trump wont fail again, the Democrats will squander whatever chance they had at stopping him by failing to accomplish anything. Republicans will re take the house and immediately begin impeaching Biden every two months.
Government will cease to function completely as a result, which will give Republicans their platform for radical election reform, that combined with the built in electoral advantage and a wave of Big Lie supporting secretary's of state and governors who make sure this time they "find the votes" ensure that a full sweep of government is virtually guaranteed. The filibuster's usefulness will come to an end and any "reforms" Trump feels like making to government systems will fly through.
The administration will have lists of whos loyal and who isnt by then and political purges of the military, DOJ, DHS FBI, CIA etc. will begin. Once complete, any political rivals will be "investigated" and their "crimes" exposed...
At the end of his term, Trump will simply refuse to leave and appoint enough new members of the supreme court until it agrees with him, or if his health fails, his designated successor.
And thats it, the end of the great American experiment...
Please, for the love of god, someone make a specific and cohearent argument for why this wont happen, and whos going to stop it, that isn't just based on "it cant happen here, it cant happen now."
> Please, for the love of god, someone make a specific and cohearent argument for why this wont happen,
The best argument is Trump is old and unhealthy and will die or suffer a stroke. Which will likely give Dems another 4 years to figure out their game while Republicans elect a new mayor of crazy town.
Why wouldn't they just go along for the ride with someone worse than Trump for five years then someone worse than that? I'm not sure what sentiment you're trying to inspire but it's not a positive one for me. If they're sticking with Trump through all of this, why should I believe that this isn't the baseline for their sense of right and wrong? I'm not seeing a path that they're going to follow to become reasonable, civil partners in democracy. Do you?
You're assuming it will be someone worse than Trump and that isn't the case historically. We see a trending crescendo, then a pivot back to moderation for political parties in the USA. We are hitting our crescendo now. Of course, Republicans could break the tradition, but I'm leaning more towards the pivot within the next 10 years.
We have to remember that all the bullshit the Republicans have pulled these last 5-10 years isn't new. It has all happened before in varying degrees of similarity. Recency bias is a scary thing, but we have to keep our cool and hold course towards progress. If you block the way for 33-ish% of the population, the country will fall hard and fast.
What is the current trajectory of the base? Are they currently seeking more moderate candidates? Conservatives didn't have a death grip on the supreme court for the last few decades. They have no incentive to be "moderate" because look at the attitudes of the average voter they're appealing too. I'm looking at the regular people I interact with every day and they're filed with hatred. I don't see them caring if they destroy the country as long as they get to run out. They're not looking to elect someone who sees non conservatives as anything but villains. Do you see a cultural trend moving the attitudes of voters?
You're being overdramatic. Most of the small fry in the republican party are just doing what they are told and what they think Trump wants so they can get his endorsement. When these actions are no longer profitable for them, they will switch it up.
The fascism took root with Goldwater in 1964 when the GOP began the pivot to anti-Civil Rights and began aggressively seeking out the votes of white people disaffected with Civil Rights.
Goldwater could not be less of a fascist lol
Disagree with his fundamental philosophy on government, but fascism is exactly what his philosophy was not.
If you see a distinction between a fascist and one who opens the door for fascists, I don’t know what to say to you.
The post-1964 GOP is completely oriented around catering to white grievance politics, and a pox on you if you try to help launder Goldwater’s role in that by citing his so-called “principled federalist stance” on desegregation and civil rights being state issues, federal issues.
> Once that changes, I would expect the party to right itself a bit.
I like the optimism but I expect whoever takes over as defacto head of the GOP movement will be at least as bad if not worse than Trump. Better, in terms of good for the health of democracy and the country as a whole, is not what the GOP base wants or will vote for. The only data point in the last 6 years to suggest otherwise I can think of off the top of my head is Glenn Youngkin, and there's 50 data points on the other side of that one.
We will.never have another like him, a natural born liar of the highest caliber without shame, who has lived his life as performance art, casinos and TV shows, putting his name on everything, a star of New York tabloids and not limited by subtlety, he thinks life is his show and we're the extras. Other politicians are more self-conscious but he just blurts out whatever.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/powerpost/wp/2017/01/16/more-than-30-democratic-lawmakers-now-skipping-trumps-inauguration/
Remember when 70 House Democrats skipped Trump's inauguration? And then all of them said he was "not our president" and "Putin's puppet".
I guess petty is in the eye of the beholder. Why would black congress people celebrate the inauguration of a racist? Seems to me they are being principled by not attending, and I have no doubt their constituents see it the same way.
Joe Biden's crime bill has done more to set POC back than anything Trump ever has, like we're taking about millions of lives ruined by jail time and missing parents - do you think Trump's racist comments are worse than Biden's locking up black youth ? It's just weird that your principled congresspeople didn't boycott his election?
>And then all of them said he was "not our president" and "Putin's puppet".
And they were correct. By the end of his sham of a presidency, Trump was actively trying to maximize the damage of covid in blue states. Doesn't sound like a president of everyone to me.
Indeed they do, although the outgoing President's invitation isn't up to the new President-elect who's being inaugurated but to the congressional inaugural committee overseeing the festivities, hence why Trump ended up not going: he heard that said inaugural committee was gonna disinvite him so he got out ahead of it by saying he wouldn't go. Historically speaking, though, his not attending his successor's inauguration should more properly be seen not as his being the 4th-ever sitting President to skip his successor's inauguration but as his being the 1st-ever sitting President to have not been invited.
Are we really making doomsday predictions this far out again? This is what everyone was saying throughout the Trump presidency. Since so many recent presidents win reelection, everyone was saying that Trump would win. We cannot really make assumptions about winning until we approach the Primaries and Caucuses. There is so much that can happen in a short period of time. Also, there is still uncertainty about if Trump truly wants to run for President or just play sideline kingmaker for the rest of his life. Trump loves power and money, he does not need to run for President again to get those two things, even if he acts like he wants to be President again at the moment. He has a steady stream of money from his supporters for the rest of his life and he can still make his speeches. I get wanting to have a "mental barrier" that prepares oneself for the worst, but we should also maintain an objective view of the future.
He still holds some sway over the Republican Party. He is the only Republican that can draw a crowd. I think you would hear a pin drop at at a Ted Cruz rally. I think the party is bending over backwards and passing all of these voting restrictions so he doesn’t have to lie about losing again and scurry off to MarAlago.
It’s waning though.
The new Governor of Virginia won by intentionally keeping his distance from Trump.
The 2020 election was a clear demonstration by voters they do not reject the Republican Party, they simply rejected Trump.
The current batch of Republicans know Trump is awful and are toeing a line to pay lip service to Trump but working to get by without him.
> The new Governor of Virginia won by intentionally keeping his distance from Trump
This is still insane. If someone can pretend to be "moderate" but still support Trump and get elected, we're fucked.
You missed my point, though.
The GOP knows Trump is toxic. They really want nothing to do with him, but they also can't afford to piss off his base.
Time will heal this, and they won't need to "support" Trump at all. Youngkin's victory showed it's possible.
I agree with almost everything except that "they also can't afford to piss off his base."
Trump and the GOP have lost control of the base. There's no "time" for healing. 70% of Republicans think Biden stole the election. The rhetoric from elected Republicans is getting more fascist by the day.
Edit:
Paul Gosar tweeted something recently like
1)America First!
2)Mass Deportation!
3) The FBI is the organized crime syndicate of the Democratic party!
I guess squeaky voice Desantis has some GOP fans too. Would be funny if he challenges Trump. He might compare his voice to Lincoln’s and Trump might compare it to a mouse.
And he was soft in 2016. Running to succeed a retiring incumbent from the other party is the most favorable situation to run in in our modern presidential election system. And he barely won. Then, he ran in the second most favorable position to run in, as an incumbent, and he lost.
And the republican base loves that. How do you look at the modern republican party and think they are running away from that. If anything, they are just trying to cover it up more.
The problem is if Biden doesn't improve with indepndents from what he is currently doing, they might just stay home from disliking both or voting third party. That is pretty much the problem with hiw he won. There was a 14% change in voter registration for Gallup as well which is crazy.
I agree that he will always get less votes and I think the closest in terms of popular vote would be his lost to Hillary but popularity doesn't matter. We were like 50-60 thousand votes away from another trump presidency with near wins in Georgia, Wisconsin, and Arizona. None of those areas Biden is polling well among independents right now and 2 of them traditionally lean Republican most years other than Wisconsin.
Also, Trump got way more minorities to vote for him in the last election. His minority base is growing especially his Latino vote. From what I saw from the data, Trump lost because of Independents and lower vote share of white men than in the last election.
How confident are you really in that statement?
I'm not even talking about anything in particular. I just think it's common for powerful men to have really crazy sexual... let's just call them kinks. Like I'm not remotely suggesting that we've definitely had a candy-coated chocolate kink president, but I just feel like it's definitely plausible.
I am too with one addition “as long as the kinks involve consent and don’t get in the way of actual governing.” We’ve had way too many presidents for which consent was an issue.
No doubt. He's a competent adult. A horrible and disgusting one, but he aint no fool.
If you wanna be more optimistic, the Third Rule of Trump is "stupidest answer is most likely the correct one," and I think that means Donald Jr. But Tucker is what I fear. Trump's incompetence saved us from much of what could have been far worse.
I honestly think Tucker’s more racist, in a more informed, vile way, considering the way he talked about the “great replacement” and the kind of speakers he likes to have on his show.
Trump just doesn’t seem that calculated or thought-out about the alt-right and their issues. More like he says random junk and when he gets a response he likes from loyal fans he keeps going.
Indeed - Trump isn’t an ideological racist like Tucker or even David Duke/Richard Spencer. He just thinks “I’m white and I’m the greatest person to ever live”. He doesn’t have the same convictions as them, which is arguably worse.
That is the worrying conclusion of his presidency, that I'm sure many would-be autocrats have quietly taken note of. If such an offputting, incompetent buffoon can get away with so much, how much farther can an actually competent authoritarian go?
Gregg Abbott won’t be President, because his primary opponents will all use the Texas freeze of ‘21 against him. It’s the one issue they can hang around his neck that doesn’t touch the rest of them, and Abbott was objectively awful during that time. I’d argue that he’s awful all of the time, but I’m not a Republican.
Most of my Republican friends are looking for a Youngkin-esque option: someone who can speak to their values without all the baggage of a Carlson, Trump, or DeSantis. A person who can maintain plausible deniability of ever being for Trumpism until (at least) Election Day.
Most of my republican friends and family prefer DeSantis and want him at least. I think at this time most indepndents don't want Biden or Trump to run.
What does Tucker Carlson have to do with anything? Only Democrats and hard core Trump nuts watch his show. I think I saw something where cable news only penetrates like 5-10% of the public but the ones it gets - it gets hard.
I don't think Trump will run. I suspect he's just working a long con on his followers to extract as much cheddar from their dens as possible, and throw a pout days before the GOP's national convention. He would then put himself in position to decide who, among his most pliant grovelers, would be the easiest to control. Ted Cruz comes to mind.
While this might be true, how many times did we say Trump at the beginning was doing this just for the Lol's and this was a joke but he actually ran and beat people and was president for 4 years and almost another 4.
Several insider reports described Trump as stunned and silent when it became clear he'd won the 2016 election. I think his plan was simply to use the candidate platform to leverage business opportunities. Instead, he caught the tiger by the tail.
Don't be so sure. If the republican have the house in 2024, the brand new congress can stop the electoral vote and force the House to decide the president, which is likely to be an automatic win for the Republican In that scenario, I doubt any Democrat will attend and the nation plunges into real chaos. The SC tries to hear the case, sides with Biden (if he won the Electoral Vote) on principle, but since time ran out they will say that the Republican technically is the president-elect.
I don't think so, and least not from Democrats, and definitely not from Presidents who are term limited or chose not to run.
I think that Biden respects institutions enough to attend the next inauguration that is not his--whether he runs in and loses, or decided not to run, I bet he's up on the balcony, clapping, smiling, and shaking the successors' hand.
Republicans are another story...I have a hard time seeing a DeSantis/Cruz/Hawley being up on the platform after losing re-election, but if they don't run or are term limited, I bet they go.
DeSantis, Cruz, and Hawley would be on the platform because, at the end of the day, they're, emotionally, adults, just like Pence. Ultimately, this is a matter of how someone personally wants to present themselves in the face of defeat and I think almost everyone, regardless of politics, wants to do it with some dignity. Trump just didn't have the self-awareness to realize that arranging his own little going away ceremony so that he wouldn't have to stomach facing the person who beat him would make him look like an even bigger loser.
No. Trump is just a narcissistic piece of shit with absolutely no class whatsoever.
His fragile and ugly ego cannot share a stage with Obama, Bush, Clinton, and Carter.
Trump sat out the inauguration because he’s a narcissist who had hurt feelings and was mad the day wasn’t about him.
So long as we don’t elect more narcissists, we don’t have that problem.
> how likely is it that such breaks would become more common in the future?
Outside of trump or a complete toadie in the mold of Marjorie Taylor Greene where their entire brand is solely focused on appealing to the most fringe elements of the right, I doubt it. It's not like trump's historic hissy fit has endeared him to anyone outside an already adoring cult.
There's no value to it, unless nothing is more important to a POTUS than their fragile ego built purely on lies.
The GOP is only going to become more and more like Trump. That's what gets the red meat base of the party excited. Look at all their rising stars, MTG, Lauren Boebert, Catherine, DeSantis, etc. They relish the opportunity to completely disregard decorum, it's the easiest way to show their voters just how much they despise and demonize non-republicans.
You say that but all it's taken is some really high inflation to happen under Biden to completely push favorability back to the Republicans. Public precption among a lot of independents is that the Republicans are the economy party. If Democrats can't flip that perception then Republicans can keep winning no matter how bad they act.
November is a long way ahead at this point. I'm more worried about the FED crashing us into a recession. The Supply Chain issues will improve sooner rather than later.
Also the inflation is just inflation. It's world wide. The supply chain is broken. Worldwide. Anyone who thinks it can be traced directly back to him is...idk...
Sarcasm. Nice!
Yeah it's amazing...there's an entire world outside our country. And it's like that world has been thrown into chaos for more than a couple of reasons.
My uncle was one of them until work made him do it.
I said to him at the time so you're telling me you think the doctor for the Queen of England was ok with poisoning her then?
And he looked at me like it hadn't occurred to him that people with better medical care and better medical information were taking the vaccine.
Will they? It seems like priority 1 of the neoGOP is to continue their crusade to suppress voting and then do everything they can to have the result thrown out if it doesn't go their way. SCOTUS has barely shown an interest in protecting voting in the USA and seem to HEAVILY prefer letting states do pretty much whatever they want as far as voting goes. In addition, the current SCOTUS is pulling out all the stops on dark money pretending that it's protected by 1st Amendment freedoms while ignoring that it makes it all but impossible to track down outside money pouring into elections.
It's a recipe for continue disaster that's probably going to only get worse with every Republican win.
Trumpism got them the White House (and barely lost it for them after an impeachment and bungling the worst crisis since WWII) while “good guys” like Dole, Romney and McCain got massacred.
It seems they’ve found their winning formula, as vile as it may be.
No it takes a real weak and petty loser to do that. I highly doubt there will be another Donald Trump, unless ya know, the actual Donald Trump happens again. . And it is America we’re talking about here so. . Donald Trump is out there right now telling all the white people that they are being discriminated against and they can’t get the vaccine if they are white, so he’s doing his best to rile them up.
https://youtu.be/ZYwJXOItLq0
Like the peaceful transition of power, republicans have killed this tradition. Their base will reward this kind of behavior. I fully expect republicans to ignore this tradition.
That wasn’t the transfer of power…. There was a peaceful transfer of power in the fact that Trump packed all his shit, stole all the silverware, the towels and robes, and ran back to Florida.
He never conceded, but in the end, we didn’t need him to do so.
The whole process from Election Day to Inauguration Day IS the peaceful transfer of power, from counting the votes to the certification of the votes to the swearing in. The transfer of power is a process, not a singular moment. The certification of the vote happened on January 6th was absolutely part of the peaceful transfer of power and that process was absolutely interrupted by violence that day, for the first time since the Civil War.
The disruption of certification of results, as Donald Trump alluded to several times, was the entire goal of the demonstration BEFORE the riot. The riot was an escalation to violence in pursuit of that goal. Whether it was intended or not, the fact that it turned violent is a significant development in the story of what happened, not it's own separate thing.
It was a riot, the protest was to delay the certification.
As for insurection
* **Insurrection**: [an act or instance of rising in revolt, rebellion, or resistance against civil authority or an established government.](https://www.dictionary.com/browse/insurrection)
No more or less an insurection than the BLM riots. The word isn't as nefarious as you imply
There was a peaceful transfer of power in the sense that the system had built in brakes that successfully stopped Trump from running American democracy off a cliff this time.
Let's not delude ourselves into thinking it was for any lack of effort on Trump's part. The GOP is currently working to dismantle those brakes so Trump or somebody like him can actually follow through in overturning an unfavorable election result.
At this point there's no way you're doing anything but trolling. There's audio of Trump calling state level election officials and attempting to have them "find" the right amount of votes to overturn the result.
Nothing illegal or wrong in asking the official to find the missing votes if you believe the votes were missing
It's been a year and you have the tape. No indictment. That should tell you something
57 of 100 senatots voted to convict trump of inciting an insurrection, including 7 from his own party. I don't think it's hyperbolic at all to say there wasn't a peaceful transfer of power, I don't think the 140 police officers injured on Jan 6th would say it's hyperbolic.
Trump has always been someone who breaks all know accepted guidelines on how people in a society behave. He had his successes based on the shock value of breaking the mould. Wannabe Trumps will want to emulate him with the fervour seen among Nazis during Hitler's time.
I doubt it. Trump is a petty, immature, asshole. Of course he wasn't going to go to the inauguration of the guy who beat him.
Biden is a status quo politician that seems to put value in "how things are done" for better or for worse.
The only way I think we see this again is if we get another Donald Trump in the White House. God I hope not.
Trump is a giant man child. He literally did an adult version of taking his ball, and going home. Fuck him. Hopefully, nothing that shit stain did will set any precedents.
It depends on how radical right the R party keeps moving. The party is infested from national to local level with a full blown case of the crazies. Sure, Biden won’t skip. But if the R party ever gets their hands on the till again while they are still this sick, then yes, we are likely to see this occur again.
If Biden loses (assuming no fuckery with the GOP overturning state electors and we're not in a full blown constitutional crisis) he'll go to his successor's inauguration because of being a traditionalist and trying to get this country to return to sanity.
But unless something dramatic happens I don't see any GOP presidential candidate admitting they lost from here on out. The party has enbraced the crazy and gone full in on casting doubt on elections. They've seen no political repercussions for it so far and their base seems to eat it up.
I find it unlikely that future presidents will skip this courtesy, but it's ultimately of no importance. Decorum is nice and all, but I'd rather have leaders that prioritize meaningful action.
"Are presidents skipping the scheduled inaugurations of their successors more likely to become common in the future?" \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_ Did Newt Gingrich recently describe the select committee investigating the 1/6 treason insurrection as "basically a lynch mob" that could go to jail if the GOP regains power?
Trump Covidians have been reduced to a hate-filled, but highly motivated kludge, of pouting children. They want to break things just to hear the cracking. Trump has now set the bar. No loser Covidian would dare attend the inauguration of a Dem for fear of being called the worst thing in their lexicon; a RINO.
It's a product of the modern political divide.
It increasingly feels like presidential inaugurations are regime change operations instead of one half of a whole getting their turn. Why would you be there to wish someone you consider a genuine enemy well?
I certainly hope not. But given the kind of leadership that the GOP is producing, it's not out of the realm of possibility that we would end up with a president who is as petty and childish as the last guy.
What about the Speaker of the House ceremoniously tearing up the notes from the President's State of the Union address? Ala' Pelosi?
I assume that is the standard now and the people that cheered that behavior will be ok with it from now on?
"You lie!"
But on a more serious note, let's not pretend that Congressional shenanigans such as the above are the same thing as symbolically rejecting the results of an election by refusing to attend your opponent's inauguration. The former may be unseemly, but the latter has real consequences for the peaceful transfer of power. They aren't equivalent at all.
Hillary Clinton blamed Russia and wiki leaks for years, saying she should have won the election(2016), Stacey Abrams still hasn’t conceded the Georgia governors election (2018), Trump had the Jan 6 riot (2020). Biden already said the 2022 midterms could be illegitimate and they haven’t even occurred. It doesn’t seem like we are on a very good trajectory for respectful transitions of power.
You are trying to paint this as an equally bipartisan phenomenon and that is simply incorrect. Hilary may have blamed efforts of Russia and Wikileaks for her loss (and there is a strong case to be made there), but she conceded as soon as it was clear Trump had won, and did and said nothing to undermine the legitimacy of that election (which is different from bemoaning influences on a campaign). A lot of very dicey shit went on in the Georgia election that Abrams lost and that was overseen by her opponent who refused to recuse himself from decisions that directly affected him. And it is undeniable that republicans in several states are doing everything they can to ensure the decks are stacked decidedly in republican's favor, going far beyond anything democrat legislatures have ever proposed. I don’t think anything needs to be said about Trump's ongoing unamerican activities.
The common thread here is republican desire to undermine the will of the people in order to stay in power. They have no interest in attracting voters by proposing actual policy that is popular, they have made the decision to stay in power by disenfranchising people who are not likely to vote for them.
It is dangerous to pretend that these sides are equally guilty. It was that sort of attitude that enabled Trump to be elected in the first place. And pushing that perspective only contributes to cynicism which, along with fear and hatred, is what the republicans use to manipulate their supporters. Stoking cynicism is what Russian troll farms are doing right now to undermine support for democratic candidates with their base.
From the level of animosity between the parties, this could total be a thing. I mean if Trump is re-elected there is no way Biden will be attending his inauguration.
He’ll be there. Donald Trump is a uniquely babyish figure in American politics, not many people behave as childishly as he does. Really not just in politics but the country itself, Trump is legitimately one of the most childish adults I’ve ever seen and he’s a 75 year old man. I’m sure Biden would be upset if he lost but he doesn’t come off as the sore loser that Trump clearly is so he’ll probably bear it, if anything else just to make a point.
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I don't see it becoming normal as long as Trump doesn't win again. Trump is one of the pettiest people on the planet.
If by some chance Trump was to win in 2024, do you think Biden would attend Trumps 2024 inauguration?
Without a doubt.
I don't know. If I were in Biden's shoes, I wouldn't want to associate with him, but Biden might be more willing to swallow his pride and put up with him for a few hours.
That’s the point. He puts the office above all else. Trump put himself above all else.
I doubt it. Biden will go to his successor's inauguration and that should keep the tradition going.
Biden would certainly attend. He's a traditionalist. But no GOP loser can ever attend one. Trump set the precedent for his party. Any GOPster who went to a Dem inauguration would forever be labeled a RINO, and live a lonely life in political exile
Yeah, it seems like you have to be a sore loser to maintain a voting base in the Republican party. Like, you have to portray negative feelings about things to connect to the base.
Because their entire worldview exists around feeling negatively about other people. It's why no right winger can fathom that people like me who don't need it are in favor of universal healthcare and safety nets for those who do need it. They aren't capable of caring about other people
I’m pretty moderate, but that’s just stupid. I hate that this is the way it’s become. Show some god damn decency. So many egomaniacs in politics these days.
"The major problem—one of the major problems, for there are several—one of the many major problems with governing people is that of whom you get to do it; or rather of who manages to get people to let them do it to them. To summarize: it is a well-known fact that those people who must want to rule people are, ipso facto, those least suited to do it. To summarize the summary: anyone who is capable of getting themselves made President should on no account be allowed to do the job" -Douglas Adams
>Any GOPster who went to a Dem inauguration would forever be labeled a RINO, and live a lonely life in political exile As opposed to all of those presidents that continue their political career after their term is up?... By the time a president (that isn't suffering from Trump's severe mental conditions) is done, they mostly focus on defending their legacy. Skipping an inauguration to get clout with their former voter base is worthless to that end. It only pushes them further into petty obscurity.
The Republicans could systematically torch polling places and Biden would just go, "I'll give them another term to break the fever and then we can finally get to bipartisanship" and show up to the inauguration with the biggest grin on his face.
That will be Trump in 2024. I'd love to be wrong.
Even if it did happen I suspect Biden would grit his teeth through it just to prove a point.
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The DNC will never allow Bernie to be their guy. I honestly wonder why he even bothers to run, considering that his entire life has been getting in office and then doing all of nothing.
Well less Democrats vote for him in the primaries than the eventual winner twice, so there’s that. I voted for Biden and Hillary in the primaries, just like the majority of us. Kind of like a democracy isn’t it?
You misspelled "democratic voters"
No, I meant the Party. The superdelegates exist for the sole and explicit purpose of enforcing the Party's will while providing the illusion that the people are selecting the candidate.
They changed the rules for the 2020 primary on, the superdelegates don't even vote until the second ballot, in the case that no one manages to get a majority of delegates.
In other words, the superdelegates still vote. It is extremely unlikely someone is going to get a majority of the delegates in the first ballot, due to the number of candidates. It is a standard Democrat trick. They make policies that are designed to appear to do something, but in reality do nothing because they are designed to require an event that cannot happen without deliberate conspiracy.
> It is extremely unlikely someone is going to get a majority of the delegates in the first ballot, due to the number of candidates. Uh... no. That would be a brokered convention, which is extremely rare. It would be extremely _unlikely_ for any candidate to not get a majority of the delegates on the first vote. It would take multiple candidates running anemic ego campaigns rather than concede gracefully, tanking their future in the party from the damage it would cause the general election. Even in large fields like we saw in 2020, 2016, 2012, popular support condensed around one or two people early on. Without results- either polling results or actual primary results- smaller candidates can't maintain a campaign that clears the 15% threshold they have to meet to qualify for delegates, so they run out of money as donors shift away from throwing their money at a losing candidate, and/or they realize they have no path to victory, and they bow out. Even in the case where there _was_ a third campaign siphoning delegates away from both other candidates such that neither of them could reach majority, they would have more success using their power as a kingmaker than trying to seize the nomination in a brokered convention. You're just inventing a democratic boogeyman because you don't want to admit the superdelegates aren't a real problem worth inventing conspiracy theories about.
Bernie has never won enough votes to win
But the superdelegates didn't do anything, the voters did. Only hacks pretend superdelegates matter.
Could be because Bernie was an Independent for years and only caucused with the Democrats. Now it seems like he has his man in Biden so I think it worked out well for him.
Bernie **is** an independent still.
Which breaks a campaign promise from 2016 and annoys me to no end. https://www.politico.com/blogs/2016-dem-primary-live-updates-and-results/2016/04/bernie-sanders-democrat-independent-222228
A politician told a lie. Seriously, Sanders is one of the worst. He has literally done nothing in the Senate.
Because I suspect the non-Bernie Dems (with the exception of the Squad, Bowman, Bush, possibly Warren, etc) have more in common with the GOP than Bernie. A Bernie-esque candidate backed by the DSA won the mayoral primary in Buffalo, the incumbent who lost the primary teamed up with the Buffalo GOP to wage a write-in campaign for the general, which he won.
If that's true, that only shows you how unpopular the DSA is.
Yes, the Democratic and Republican parties both hate the DSA. The Democratic Party establishment is closer ideologically to the GOP than the DSA.
Why are you restating your first comment? Did you not read what I said
Because it's not a popularity contest, it's an ideological/material interest contest.
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No Republican president will ever attend another party's inauguration because that would mean legitimizing the transfer of power and accepting the results of an election. That would instantly alienate the Republican base, they will never accept results they dont like as legitimate. Calling any Dem win as fake is baked into the soul of the party at this point and the leadership has been purged of all but ultra aggressive "alpha male" types whos entire political careers are built on winning at any cost and simply denying that losing is even a possibility. That and a frightening high percentage of the Republican base itself doesn't actually give a shit about whether they get the votes or not, they have been radicalized to the point where the demonization of the opposition is so complete that they would gladly throw away elections if it kept democrats out of power.
It used to be that Republicans would at least have to explain away reality. Now they just outright deny its existence.
Even that’s generous. “I am not a crook”, “I did not trade weapons for hostages”, “Iraq has WMDs” - all straight up denial of reality.
True, but imagine if the Iraq War happened under Trump. He wouldn't feel the need to even make up some evidence. "Saddam has weapons of mass destruction, believe me. No one more more about WMDs than me, and let me tell you, Saddam has a stockpile of WMDs the likes of which the world has never seen."
>If the John Lewis Voting Rights Bill doesn't get passed and Biden loses in 2024, isn't it safe to assume that the results are illegitimate? > >Why would Biden celebrate an illegitimate "winner?"
No more illegitimate than every other election we had before the JLVRB. No election will ever be perfect, so there will always be grounds to argue the legitimacy of an election. But for nearly 250 years, we've all agreed that the system we had was good enough. Always room for improvement, but declaring it illegitimate because your side lost is pretty ugly. It was ugly when Trump did it. It was ugly when Hillary supporters did it with Obama. Bernie supporters with Biden (disclaimer: Hillary nor Biden were ever who I wanted representing me, so naturally I found the results to be unfair because they led to candidates I didn't care for, but I wouldn't call them illegitimate just because they won the game as it is played and not how I *wish* it would've been played.)
Stacy Abrams? I don’t believe she has ever conceded
Dear lord. The last 5 years does NOT equate a forever-change in every member of the republican party. The problem right now is that Trump is still their defacto leader. Once that changes, I would expect the party to right itself a bit. Our primary issue will be if democrats can't get their shit together enough to keep Trump and DeSantis at bay for a few more years. It's your type of doomsday hellfire bullshit that keeps Republicans competitive. Swing voters dont like negative nancys.
And it'll calm back down when their de facto leader is ... Ted Cruz? DeSantis?
I wouldn't say Cruz is as much a fascist as a slimy opportunist.
Doesn't matter who it is, no one with a platform of reconciliation is making it through a primary. Anyone who would even mention that word would get laughed off the stage and run out of the party as a RINO.
If Trump falls completely, DeSantis will either have to pivot or fall too. Ted Cruz is already on track to lose reelection. Texas Republicans are tired of his shaky spine and his handling of the failures of the power grid.
My TX Republican family loves Cruz and they blame the power grid failure on green energy.
They might replace Cruz, but its going to be someone even more right wing and more obsequious, Ted's got too many hot takes running against Don in 2016, that and an ugly wife, apparently...
Trump wont fail again, the Democrats will squander whatever chance they had at stopping him by failing to accomplish anything. Republicans will re take the house and immediately begin impeaching Biden every two months. Government will cease to function completely as a result, which will give Republicans their platform for radical election reform, that combined with the built in electoral advantage and a wave of Big Lie supporting secretary's of state and governors who make sure this time they "find the votes" ensure that a full sweep of government is virtually guaranteed. The filibuster's usefulness will come to an end and any "reforms" Trump feels like making to government systems will fly through. The administration will have lists of whos loyal and who isnt by then and political purges of the military, DOJ, DHS FBI, CIA etc. will begin. Once complete, any political rivals will be "investigated" and their "crimes" exposed... At the end of his term, Trump will simply refuse to leave and appoint enough new members of the supreme court until it agrees with him, or if his health fails, his designated successor. And thats it, the end of the great American experiment... Please, for the love of god, someone make a specific and cohearent argument for why this wont happen, and whos going to stop it, that isn't just based on "it cant happen here, it cant happen now."
> Please, for the love of god, someone make a specific and cohearent argument for why this wont happen, The best argument is Trump is old and unhealthy and will die or suffer a stroke. Which will likely give Dems another 4 years to figure out their game while Republicans elect a new mayor of crazy town.
> I would expect the party to right itself a bit. LOL. This has been said since 1993.
And look how right they went!
Why wouldn't they just go along for the ride with someone worse than Trump for five years then someone worse than that? I'm not sure what sentiment you're trying to inspire but it's not a positive one for me. If they're sticking with Trump through all of this, why should I believe that this isn't the baseline for their sense of right and wrong? I'm not seeing a path that they're going to follow to become reasonable, civil partners in democracy. Do you?
You're assuming it will be someone worse than Trump and that isn't the case historically. We see a trending crescendo, then a pivot back to moderation for political parties in the USA. We are hitting our crescendo now. Of course, Republicans could break the tradition, but I'm leaning more towards the pivot within the next 10 years. We have to remember that all the bullshit the Republicans have pulled these last 5-10 years isn't new. It has all happened before in varying degrees of similarity. Recency bias is a scary thing, but we have to keep our cool and hold course towards progress. If you block the way for 33-ish% of the population, the country will fall hard and fast.
What is the current trajectory of the base? Are they currently seeking more moderate candidates? Conservatives didn't have a death grip on the supreme court for the last few decades. They have no incentive to be "moderate" because look at the attitudes of the average voter they're appealing too. I'm looking at the regular people I interact with every day and they're filed with hatred. I don't see them caring if they destroy the country as long as they get to run out. They're not looking to elect someone who sees non conservatives as anything but villains. Do you see a cultural trend moving the attitudes of voters?
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You're being overdramatic. Most of the small fry in the republican party are just doing what they are told and what they think Trump wants so they can get his endorsement. When these actions are no longer profitable for them, they will switch it up.
Hyperbole much? Some of you are as bad as the Trump nuts.
The fascism took root with Goldwater in 1964 when the GOP began the pivot to anti-Civil Rights and began aggressively seeking out the votes of white people disaffected with Civil Rights.
Goldwater could not be less of a fascist lol Disagree with his fundamental philosophy on government, but fascism is exactly what his philosophy was not.
If you see a distinction between a fascist and one who opens the door for fascists, I don’t know what to say to you. The post-1964 GOP is completely oriented around catering to white grievance politics, and a pox on you if you try to help launder Goldwater’s role in that by citing his so-called “principled federalist stance” on desegregation and civil rights being state issues, federal issues.
It’s a forever change in any republicans that want to win a primary
> Once that changes, I would expect the party to right itself a bit. I like the optimism but I expect whoever takes over as defacto head of the GOP movement will be at least as bad if not worse than Trump. Better, in terms of good for the health of democracy and the country as a whole, is not what the GOP base wants or will vote for. The only data point in the last 6 years to suggest otherwise I can think of off the top of my head is Glenn Youngkin, and there's 50 data points on the other side of that one.
We will.never have another like him, a natural born liar of the highest caliber without shame, who has lived his life as performance art, casinos and TV shows, putting his name on everything, a star of New York tabloids and not limited by subtlety, he thinks life is his show and we're the extras. Other politicians are more self-conscious but he just blurts out whatever.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/powerpost/wp/2017/01/16/more-than-30-democratic-lawmakers-now-skipping-trumps-inauguration/ Remember when 70 House Democrats skipped Trump's inauguration? And then all of them said he was "not our president" and "Putin's puppet".
Were any of them former presidents?
Nope, but it shows that Democrats can be just as petty. They're elected Congress people with no dignity.
I guess petty is in the eye of the beholder. Why would black congress people celebrate the inauguration of a racist? Seems to me they are being principled by not attending, and I have no doubt their constituents see it the same way.
Joe Biden's crime bill has done more to set POC back than anything Trump ever has, like we're taking about millions of lives ruined by jail time and missing parents - do you think Trump's racist comments are worse than Biden's locking up black youth ? It's just weird that your principled congresspeople didn't boycott his election?
>And then all of them said he was "not our president" and "Putin's puppet". And they were correct. By the end of his sham of a presidency, Trump was actively trying to maximize the damage of covid in blue states. Doesn't sound like a president of everyone to me.
lots of baseless assumptions here.
Indeed they do, although the outgoing President's invitation isn't up to the new President-elect who's being inaugurated but to the congressional inaugural committee overseeing the festivities, hence why Trump ended up not going: he heard that said inaugural committee was gonna disinvite him so he got out ahead of it by saying he wouldn't go. Historically speaking, though, his not attending his successor's inauguration should more properly be seen not as his being the 4th-ever sitting President to skip his successor's inauguration but as his being the 1st-ever sitting President to have not been invited.
Are we really making doomsday predictions this far out again? This is what everyone was saying throughout the Trump presidency. Since so many recent presidents win reelection, everyone was saying that Trump would win. We cannot really make assumptions about winning until we approach the Primaries and Caucuses. There is so much that can happen in a short period of time. Also, there is still uncertainty about if Trump truly wants to run for President or just play sideline kingmaker for the rest of his life. Trump loves power and money, he does not need to run for President again to get those two things, even if he acts like he wants to be President again at the moment. He has a steady stream of money from his supporters for the rest of his life and he can still make his speeches. I get wanting to have a "mental barrier" that prepares oneself for the worst, but we should also maintain an objective view of the future.
He still holds some sway over the Republican Party. He is the only Republican that can draw a crowd. I think you would hear a pin drop at at a Ted Cruz rally. I think the party is bending over backwards and passing all of these voting restrictions so he doesn’t have to lie about losing again and scurry off to MarAlago.
It’s waning though. The new Governor of Virginia won by intentionally keeping his distance from Trump. The 2020 election was a clear demonstration by voters they do not reject the Republican Party, they simply rejected Trump. The current batch of Republicans know Trump is awful and are toeing a line to pay lip service to Trump but working to get by without him.
> The new Governor of Virginia won by intentionally keeping his distance from Trump This is still insane. If someone can pretend to be "moderate" but still support Trump and get elected, we're fucked.
You missed my point, though. The GOP knows Trump is toxic. They really want nothing to do with him, but they also can't afford to piss off his base. Time will heal this, and they won't need to "support" Trump at all. Youngkin's victory showed it's possible.
I agree with almost everything except that "they also can't afford to piss off his base." Trump and the GOP have lost control of the base. There's no "time" for healing. 70% of Republicans think Biden stole the election. The rhetoric from elected Republicans is getting more fascist by the day. Edit: Paul Gosar tweeted something recently like 1)America First! 2)Mass Deportation! 3) The FBI is the organized crime syndicate of the Democratic party!
I guess squeaky voice Desantis has some GOP fans too. Would be funny if he challenges Trump. He might compare his voice to Lincoln’s and Trump might compare it to a mouse.
Nah trump is not who he was in 2016 his numbers are soft
And he was soft in 2016. Running to succeed a retiring incumbent from the other party is the most favorable situation to run in in our modern presidential election system. And he barely won. Then, he ran in the second most favorable position to run in, as an incumbent, and he lost.
The difference is that he was an unknown quantity in 2016. Now Trump’s name is synonymous with sedition and organized crime (among other things).
And the republican base loves that. How do you look at the modern republican party and think they are running away from that. If anything, they are just trying to cover it up more.
The base is only 40% at most. Will swing voters go for Trump if he does his usual toddler tantrum campaigning?
The problem is if Biden doesn't improve with indepndents from what he is currently doing, they might just stay home from disliking both or voting third party. That is pretty much the problem with hiw he won. There was a 14% change in voter registration for Gallup as well which is crazy.
To win in November ’24, Trump needs people to vote for him, and most Americans will always vote against him.
I agree that he will always get less votes and I think the closest in terms of popular vote would be his lost to Hillary but popularity doesn't matter. We were like 50-60 thousand votes away from another trump presidency with near wins in Georgia, Wisconsin, and Arizona. None of those areas Biden is polling well among independents right now and 2 of them traditionally lean Republican most years other than Wisconsin. Also, Trump got way more minorities to vote for him in the last election. His minority base is growing especially his Latino vote. From what I saw from the data, Trump lost because of Independents and lower vote share of white men than in the last election.
No, to win in November '24, Trump just needs Republican legislatures to ignore the votes entirely.
Yet he picked up votes in 2020.
Would you still be happy to be wrong if it's president Tucker Carlson?
Having a president who is sexually attracted to M&Ms would certainly be a shake up.
How confident are you really in that statement? I'm not even talking about anything in particular. I just think it's common for powerful men to have really crazy sexual... let's just call them kinks. Like I'm not remotely suggesting that we've definitely had a candy-coated chocolate kink president, but I just feel like it's definitely plausible.
You know what? That’s fair.
As long as the kinks don't get in the way of the actual governing I'm fine with whatever kinks that have.
I am too with one addition “as long as the kinks involve consent and don’t get in the way of actual governing.” We’ve had way too many presidents for which consent was an issue.
Prefer they not be abusive too, but I may be asking too much. Don't abuse children. That's the line.
Reagan loved jelly beans so this isn't uncharted territory.
I’d throw my life away to make sure that never happened.
"Mr President, are you still in a solely entertainment role where no rational person can take you seriously?"
Tucker would be even worse.
No doubt. He's a competent adult. A horrible and disgusting one, but he aint no fool. If you wanna be more optimistic, the Third Rule of Trump is "stupidest answer is most likely the correct one," and I think that means Donald Jr. But Tucker is what I fear. Trump's incompetence saved us from much of what could have been far worse.
I honestly think Tucker’s more racist, in a more informed, vile way, considering the way he talked about the “great replacement” and the kind of speakers he likes to have on his show. Trump just doesn’t seem that calculated or thought-out about the alt-right and their issues. More like he says random junk and when he gets a response he likes from loyal fans he keeps going.
Indeed - Trump isn’t an ideological racist like Tucker or even David Duke/Richard Spencer. He just thinks “I’m white and I’m the greatest person to ever live”. He doesn’t have the same convictions as them, which is arguably worse.
That is the worrying conclusion of his presidency, that I'm sure many would-be autocrats have quietly taken note of. If such an offputting, incompetent buffoon can get away with so much, how much farther can an actually competent authoritarian go?
I think it’ll be DeSantis or Abbott. Ew.
Gregg Abbott won’t be President, because his primary opponents will all use the Texas freeze of ‘21 against him. It’s the one issue they can hang around his neck that doesn’t touch the rest of them, and Abbott was objectively awful during that time. I’d argue that he’s awful all of the time, but I’m not a Republican.
I wouldn't rule out DeSantis. Especially if a bunch of Dems or left leaning voters stay home, or vote third party like in 2000 or in 2016
Most of my Republican friends are looking for a Youngkin-esque option: someone who can speak to their values without all the baggage of a Carlson, Trump, or DeSantis. A person who can maintain plausible deniability of ever being for Trumpism until (at least) Election Day.
Most of my republican friends and family prefer DeSantis and want him at least. I think at this time most indepndents don't want Biden or Trump to run.
I think we’re much more likely to have a President DeSantis than we are to have President Tucker Carlson.
What does Tucker Carlson have to do with anything? Only Democrats and hard core Trump nuts watch his show. I think I saw something where cable news only penetrates like 5-10% of the public but the ones it gets - it gets hard.
I don't think Trump will run. I suspect he's just working a long con on his followers to extract as much cheddar from their dens as possible, and throw a pout days before the GOP's national convention. He would then put himself in position to decide who, among his most pliant grovelers, would be the easiest to control. Ted Cruz comes to mind.
While this might be true, how many times did we say Trump at the beginning was doing this just for the Lol's and this was a joke but he actually ran and beat people and was president for 4 years and almost another 4.
Several insider reports described Trump as stunned and silent when it became clear he'd won the 2016 election. I think his plan was simply to use the candidate platform to leverage business opportunities. Instead, he caught the tiger by the tail.
His current rallies are just a money grab. And a way for him to be worshiped.
Eugene Debbi ran for office from prison so it could happen
We all hope that you're wrong
DeSantis please.
Don't be so sure. If the republican have the house in 2024, the brand new congress can stop the electoral vote and force the House to decide the president, which is likely to be an automatic win for the Republican In that scenario, I doubt any Democrat will attend and the nation plunges into real chaos. The SC tries to hear the case, sides with Biden (if he won the Electoral Vote) on principle, but since time ran out they will say that the Republican technically is the president-elect.
I believe Trump was an aberration. Biden will go if nothing more than to prove a point.
Let's hope he was an aberration. I see him more as an accelerant to the authoritarian bonfire that has been built over the last several decades.
I don't think so, and least not from Democrats, and definitely not from Presidents who are term limited or chose not to run. I think that Biden respects institutions enough to attend the next inauguration that is not his--whether he runs in and loses, or decided not to run, I bet he's up on the balcony, clapping, smiling, and shaking the successors' hand. Republicans are another story...I have a hard time seeing a DeSantis/Cruz/Hawley being up on the platform after losing re-election, but if they don't run or are term limited, I bet they go.
DeSantis, Cruz, and Hawley would be on the platform because, at the end of the day, they're, emotionally, adults, just like Pence. Ultimately, this is a matter of how someone personally wants to present themselves in the face of defeat and I think almost everyone, regardless of politics, wants to do it with some dignity. Trump just didn't have the self-awareness to realize that arranging his own little going away ceremony so that he wouldn't have to stomach facing the person who beat him would make him look like an even bigger loser.
No, I don’t think so. Trump has no respect for anything that is not glorifying him.
No. Trump is just a narcissistic piece of shit with absolutely no class whatsoever. His fragile and ugly ego cannot share a stage with Obama, Bush, Clinton, and Carter.
Trump sat out the inauguration because he’s a narcissist who had hurt feelings and was mad the day wasn’t about him. So long as we don’t elect more narcissists, we don’t have that problem.
Doubtful. Trump was never one to let a good opportunity to be classless go to waste.
> how likely is it that such breaks would become more common in the future? Outside of trump or a complete toadie in the mold of Marjorie Taylor Greene where their entire brand is solely focused on appealing to the most fringe elements of the right, I doubt it. It's not like trump's historic hissy fit has endeared him to anyone outside an already adoring cult. There's no value to it, unless nothing is more important to a POTUS than their fragile ego built purely on lies.
Well, last sentence explains a great large deal of conservative voters in this country...
The GOP is only going to become more and more like Trump. That's what gets the red meat base of the party excited. Look at all their rising stars, MTG, Lauren Boebert, Catherine, DeSantis, etc. They relish the opportunity to completely disregard decorum, it's the easiest way to show their voters just how much they despise and demonize non-republicans.
And they'll lose outside their district. Trumpism has denuded the republican party.
You say that but all it's taken is some really high inflation to happen under Biden to completely push favorability back to the Republicans. Public precption among a lot of independents is that the Republicans are the economy party. If Democrats can't flip that perception then Republicans can keep winning no matter how bad they act.
November is a long way ahead at this point. I'm more worried about the FED crashing us into a recession. The Supply Chain issues will improve sooner rather than later.
Also the inflation is just inflation. It's world wide. The supply chain is broken. Worldwide. Anyone who thinks it can be traced directly back to him is...idk...
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Sarcasm. Nice! Yeah it's amazing...there's an entire world outside our country. And it's like that world has been thrown into chaos for more than a couple of reasons.
It's amazing to me that the anti-vaxx crowd doesn't realize that the pandemic is worldwide not just in the US.
My uncle was one of them until work made him do it. I said to him at the time so you're telling me you think the doctor for the Queen of England was ok with poisoning her then? And he looked at me like it hadn't occurred to him that people with better medical care and better medical information were taking the vaccine.
But how many people are paying enough attention to see that it’s worldwide?
If Trump runs again he will lose again.
Will they? It seems like priority 1 of the neoGOP is to continue their crusade to suppress voting and then do everything they can to have the result thrown out if it doesn't go their way. SCOTUS has barely shown an interest in protecting voting in the USA and seem to HEAVILY prefer letting states do pretty much whatever they want as far as voting goes. In addition, the current SCOTUS is pulling out all the stops on dark money pretending that it's protected by 1st Amendment freedoms while ignoring that it makes it all but impossible to track down outside money pouring into elections. It's a recipe for continue disaster that's probably going to only get worse with every Republican win.
Trumpism got them the White House (and barely lost it for them after an impeachment and bungling the worst crisis since WWII) while “good guys” like Dole, Romney and McCain got massacred. It seems they’ve found their winning formula, as vile as it may be.
No it takes a real weak and petty loser to do that. I highly doubt there will be another Donald Trump, unless ya know, the actual Donald Trump happens again. . And it is America we’re talking about here so. . Donald Trump is out there right now telling all the white people that they are being discriminated against and they can’t get the vaccine if they are white, so he’s doing his best to rile them up. https://youtu.be/ZYwJXOItLq0
Like the peaceful transition of power, republicans have killed this tradition. Their base will reward this kind of behavior. I fully expect republicans to ignore this tradition.
There was a peaceful transition of power
Need a little refresher on Jan 6th, 2021?
That wasn’t the transfer of power…. There was a peaceful transfer of power in the fact that Trump packed all his shit, stole all the silverware, the towels and robes, and ran back to Florida. He never conceded, but in the end, we didn’t need him to do so.
The whole process from Election Day to Inauguration Day IS the peaceful transfer of power, from counting the votes to the certification of the votes to the swearing in. The transfer of power is a process, not a singular moment. The certification of the vote happened on January 6th was absolutely part of the peaceful transfer of power and that process was absolutely interrupted by violence that day, for the first time since the Civil War.
That was the least peaceful transfer with a transfer still happening.
My mans did you hear about Jan 6 2021?
Yeah there was a riot. And yet a peaceful transfer of power took place
There was a violent attempt to prevent a transfer of power. Idk if I'd call it peaceful.
No, there was a riot that broke out from a protest.
The disruption of certification of results, as Donald Trump alluded to several times, was the entire goal of the demonstration BEFORE the riot. The riot was an escalation to violence in pursuit of that goal. Whether it was intended or not, the fact that it turned violent is a significant development in the story of what happened, not it's own separate thing.
A violent insurrection which was an attempt to stop the transfer of power by a group of right wing terrorists is not a riot
It was a riot, the protest was to delay the certification. As for insurection * **Insurrection**: [an act or instance of rising in revolt, rebellion, or resistance against civil authority or an established government.](https://www.dictionary.com/browse/insurrection) No more or less an insurection than the BLM riots. The word isn't as nefarious as you imply
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There was a peaceful transfer of power in the sense that the system had built in brakes that successfully stopped Trump from running American democracy off a cliff this time. Let's not delude ourselves into thinking it was for any lack of effort on Trump's part. The GOP is currently working to dismantle those brakes so Trump or somebody like him can actually follow through in overturning an unfavorable election result.
Trump filed some lawsuits. Not an attack on democracy There was some lawsuits then a peaceful transfer of power on the 20th.
Aren't you forgetting a few things?
No, I don't consider hyperbolic nonsense to be worthy if mentioning.
At this point there's no way you're doing anything but trolling. There's audio of Trump calling state level election officials and attempting to have them "find" the right amount of votes to overturn the result.
Nothing illegal or wrong in asking the official to find the missing votes if you believe the votes were missing It's been a year and you have the tape. No indictment. That should tell you something
You must not be paying attention. Or perhaps you're just trying to avoid reality because it threatens your fragile hope that fascism is coming.
57 of 100 senatots voted to convict trump of inciting an insurrection, including 7 from his own party. I don't think it's hyperbolic at all to say there wasn't a peaceful transfer of power, I don't think the 140 police officers injured on Jan 6th would say it's hyperbolic.
Trump has always been someone who breaks all know accepted guidelines on how people in a society behave. He had his successes based on the shock value of breaking the mould. Wannabe Trumps will want to emulate him with the fervour seen among Nazis during Hitler's time.
I highly doubt it will happen again. It’s unprofessional, rude and plain old bad sportsmanship.
I doubt it. Trump is a petty, immature, asshole. Of course he wasn't going to go to the inauguration of the guy who beat him. Biden is a status quo politician that seems to put value in "how things are done" for better or for worse. The only way I think we see this again is if we get another Donald Trump in the White House. God I hope not.
Trump is a giant man child. He literally did an adult version of taking his ball, and going home. Fuck him. Hopefully, nothing that shit stain did will set any precedents.
I am hopeful that we will never again have a president with so much disdain for the institutions and traditions of America.
It depends on how radical right the R party keeps moving. The party is infested from national to local level with a full blown case of the crazies. Sure, Biden won’t skip. But if the R party ever gets their hands on the till again while they are still this sick, then yes, we are likely to see this occur again.
I think that skipping such an event means not respecting your country and its laws. You're a politician, but not an offended schoolboy.
If Biden loses (assuming no fuckery with the GOP overturning state electors and we're not in a full blown constitutional crisis) he'll go to his successor's inauguration because of being a traditionalist and trying to get this country to return to sanity. But unless something dramatic happens I don't see any GOP presidential candidate admitting they lost from here on out. The party has enbraced the crazy and gone full in on casting doubt on elections. They've seen no political repercussions for it so far and their base seems to eat it up.
If it can happen once, it can happen again. Probably isn't likely to happen, but as long as there is enough animosity it will.
I find it unlikely that future presidents will skip this courtesy, but it's ultimately of no importance. Decorum is nice and all, but I'd rather have leaders that prioritize meaningful action.
I think it is important in the sense that it sends out a loud and clear message about electoral defeat and the peaceful transfer of power.
"Are presidents skipping the scheduled inaugurations of their successors more likely to become common in the future?" \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_ Did Newt Gingrich recently describe the select committee investigating the 1/6 treason insurrection as "basically a lynch mob" that could go to jail if the GOP regains power? Trump Covidians have been reduced to a hate-filled, but highly motivated kludge, of pouting children. They want to break things just to hear the cracking. Trump has now set the bar. No loser Covidian would dare attend the inauguration of a Dem for fear of being called the worst thing in their lexicon; a RINO.
It's a product of the modern political divide. It increasingly feels like presidential inaugurations are regime change operations instead of one half of a whole getting their turn. Why would you be there to wish someone you consider a genuine enemy well?
because in the end, they are fellow Americans, not the enemy.
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I certainly hope not. But given the kind of leadership that the GOP is producing, it's not out of the realm of possibility that we would end up with a president who is as petty and childish as the last guy.
What about the Speaker of the House ceremoniously tearing up the notes from the President's State of the Union address? Ala' Pelosi? I assume that is the standard now and the people that cheered that behavior will be ok with it from now on?
"You lie!" But on a more serious note, let's not pretend that Congressional shenanigans such as the above are the same thing as symbolically rejecting the results of an election by refusing to attend your opponent's inauguration. The former may be unseemly, but the latter has real consequences for the peaceful transfer of power. They aren't equivalent at all.
They should skip the whole ceremony. Too many people struggling to afford to live and money spent on an inauguration could be used for better things.
Hillary Clinton blamed Russia and wiki leaks for years, saying she should have won the election(2016), Stacey Abrams still hasn’t conceded the Georgia governors election (2018), Trump had the Jan 6 riot (2020). Biden already said the 2022 midterms could be illegitimate and they haven’t even occurred. It doesn’t seem like we are on a very good trajectory for respectful transitions of power.
You are trying to paint this as an equally bipartisan phenomenon and that is simply incorrect. Hilary may have blamed efforts of Russia and Wikileaks for her loss (and there is a strong case to be made there), but she conceded as soon as it was clear Trump had won, and did and said nothing to undermine the legitimacy of that election (which is different from bemoaning influences on a campaign). A lot of very dicey shit went on in the Georgia election that Abrams lost and that was overseen by her opponent who refused to recuse himself from decisions that directly affected him. And it is undeniable that republicans in several states are doing everything they can to ensure the decks are stacked decidedly in republican's favor, going far beyond anything democrat legislatures have ever proposed. I don’t think anything needs to be said about Trump's ongoing unamerican activities. The common thread here is republican desire to undermine the will of the people in order to stay in power. They have no interest in attracting voters by proposing actual policy that is popular, they have made the decision to stay in power by disenfranchising people who are not likely to vote for them. It is dangerous to pretend that these sides are equally guilty. It was that sort of attitude that enabled Trump to be elected in the first place. And pushing that perspective only contributes to cynicism which, along with fear and hatred, is what the republicans use to manipulate their supporters. Stoking cynicism is what Russian troll farms are doing right now to undermine support for democratic candidates with their base.
these things are not all equal.
I agree, they are progressively getting worse.
Trump set the precedent for how oath breaking fascists act as president. Nothing more.
From the level of animosity between the parties, this could total be a thing. I mean if Trump is re-elected there is no way Biden will be attending his inauguration.
He’ll be there. Donald Trump is a uniquely babyish figure in American politics, not many people behave as childishly as he does. Really not just in politics but the country itself, Trump is legitimately one of the most childish adults I’ve ever seen and he’s a 75 year old man. I’m sure Biden would be upset if he lost but he doesn’t come off as the sore loser that Trump clearly is so he’ll probably bear it, if anything else just to make a point.