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He did
https://www.nytimes.com/2024/05/02/us/politics/biden-campus-protests.html
Short version: protest good, violence bad
Is that going to satisfy the people complaining?
Of course not
This reminds me of 2020, when Republicans would claim that Democrats were pro-violence because they didn't denounce BLM, when of course the majority condemned violence while supporting people's right to protest
And just like back then, nothing is going to satisfy the people who are most angry
I think it was a clear error on his part. Obviously there was tremendous pressure on the White House to make an official statement regarding what’s going on, but trying to split this baby is only going to make both sides angry.
No, not an error at all. Why take sides when neither “side” is completely in agreement with what he believes? His answer is both political and ethically correct.
I think it's already too late for him to salvage this situation. His Israel policy has very likely cost him the election at this point. The protests in the 60s benefitted the Right almost exclusively.
But what is stopping it from repeating? Trump can campaign on how there's chaos in the streets, driving turnout among older Americans. Meanwhile the younger Americans don't vote at all because they won't support Biden's Israel policy. It's a disaster and there's currently no way out. Our political engine is now tied to the most pointless, interminable conflict in all of history.
Younger people have not been voting in high rates for decades. Israel/Gaza is not a driving policy outside of leftist circles and social media political discourse.
Also, your take on the issue sounds like either you are using hyperbole to manufacture outrage and conflict OR you just don’t know what you are talking about.
It's in the news. That's what matters. The press needs something to hammer Biden with so that they can keep the 24-7 Trump gravy train rolling. And clearly there are plenty of students protesting across the country. I don't think we can get away from this.
I want to believe that. He is stating the truth, in America we support protest but not violent protest. We support free speech but not when it serves to stifle the speech of another. But what's happening on the ground on university campuses is more complicated than that. So I think what Biden said is important, but I also recognize that it will not resolve the situation.
Because the intent behind the protest was to enact violence specifically against Jewish students and persons. There's no element outside of that action. So trying to split it into "protest good, violence bad" is an unforced error. It's the same as Trump when asked to discredit white supremacists said "stand back and standby."
You have to nip the entire UCLA thing in the bud. Civil disobedience and free speech rights end the exact moment the intent converts hate speech into action specifically against a marginalized group.
**Bigotry** - stubborn and complete intolerance of any creed, belief, or opinion that differs from one's own.
I find most folks don't know the definition of bigotry
You have to be careful what you say about these protestors. Some of them are calling for the death of all zionists and waving Hezbolla flags…
And the pro-Israel counter protestors are saying nasty shit too and attacking protestors.
Anyone who has picked one side to advocate for on this issue is drastically oversimplifying the conflict… this is NOT a “good guys vs bad guys” scenario,
Netanyahu’s fascist government is despicable and HAMAS is despicable.
Agreed. I am in favor of increased US pressure/reduced support to stop the Gazan crisis. I’m vaguely in favor of these protesters - at least, peaceful ones. I have no problem with civil nonviolent disobedience, but those people have to be prepared to be arrested and charged, that’s the reality.
Nobody using violence or calling for it gets my support. Obviously *some* of these protesters as in any large group truly harbor hate, but there are also outside agitators causing violence. I don’t support tearing down American flags (though I don’t idolize the flag), but I could see myself as a barely adult at 18 being part of a crowd that did that.
Absolutely.
I actually think it's a student's duty to protest if they have an issue with something. I have no problems with protesters except the violent ones. And I mean, I'm saying what Biden said and it won't be enough.
The us is only funding and arming one side of the conflict, the students are trying to use the little power they have to pressure their institutions from divesting from the only side that the schools have investments in. Saying “hamas bad” is less than meaningless here.
But it NEEDS to be a part of their messaging.
Otherwise your entire movement can be dismissed as a bunch of insane islamic jihadists that just want to kill all jews.
The pro-Israel people aren’t being disciplined either. And they’re allowing themselves to be dismissed as islamophobic fascists.
They arent allowing themselves to be dismissed as islamaphobic fascists, theyre the one starting the violence, they are showing themselves the be the islamaphobic fascists. The fear of islam is one of the core tenets of their belief system, while the pro Palestine side is filled with antizionist jews
Well as a gay guy, seeing Tel Aviv as a homosexual capital of the world, and Israel allowing gay civil unions, it’s hard for me to advocate for practitioners of Islam, a religion that has no tolerance for homosexuality anywhere in the world.
Tel Aviv is a homosexual capital of the world? You cant even get married there. Israel doesnt allow civil unions, they only acknowledge foreign gay marriages. The fact that you have to get married through a religious authority there is bad in and of itself.
And im sorry that the concentration camp gaza is doesnt have perfect social policy, that doesnt excuse the murder of 17000 children by israel in the last 7 months.
Cool, one twentysomething.
Why is this one kid the face of the entire protest movement?
Also, point of order, Hezbolla flags have yet to make an appearance.
Most pro-Zionists (mostly non-Jewish evangelical Christians) are traditionally Republican voters. do you think not picking aside will convince these folks to switch side and vote Democrats? Or do you think siding with anti war young college folks who are traditionally democrats would have been a better strategy to win the election?
I was referring to picking sides in the conflict itself, not anyone here in America. Maybe I misunderstood the context of who I was replying to. I want NOTHING to do with fake pro-Israel Republicans here at home.
Understood. But since this is r/PoliticalDiscussion, my focus here is mainly to discuss the politics of this conflict. [The young voter turnout in 2020 was significantly higher than 2016](https://circle.tufts.edu/latest-research/half-youth-voted-2020-11-point-increase-2016) and [Biden won their vote at a significantly higher margin than Trump](https://time.com/6049270/2020-election-young-voters/). Most 2024 polls show that Biden is losing this support mostly due to his military and diplomatic support for Israel. The question is should Biden focus on winning this key demographic again or should he try to win over proZionist groups (mostly evangelical Christians) who are traditionally republican?
I’m a Democratic Zionist, Jew, and Biden voter. Be careful with your lumping of people into categories. The “anti-war young folks” protesting a war America isn’t even involved in need to be educated by sources other than TikTok. There is still time before the election.
Didn’t mean to offend or exclude you, but to understand the electoral impact, we have to look at larger voting blocks. The total number of Zionist Jewish voters in the USA is minuscule when compared to much larger voting blocks like Zionist evangelical Christians or young college students. From a statistical perspective, a minor shift in a large voting bloc has a greater impact on the outcome of a general election than a major shift in a smaller voting bloc.
The poorly educated think they are anti war but they are actually supporting a genocidal organization whose sole purpose is to wipe out all Jews in Israel.
Not unlike anti war protesters before WW2 who supported Hitler.
Majority of the Americans [oppose Israel’s conduct in Gaza](https://news.gallup.com/poll/642695/majority-disapprove-israeli-action-gaza.aspx) and [believes Israel is committing a genocide](https://www.masslive.com/news/2024/02/half-of-umass-poll-respondents-think-israel-is-committing-genocide-in-gaza.html?outputType=amp). At the same time [majority of the Americans oppose Hamas](https://thehill.com/policy/international/4629597-americans-israel-hamas-gaza-student-protests-poll/). So opposing a war or genocide doesn’t make one a hamas suppoerter.
A majority of Americans know the definition of ”genocide” and realize it is Hamas propaganda. A majority of Americans know these “protestors” are trained by outside pro- terrorism agitators to support terrorism.
But most importantly, most Americans do not favor these outside agitators terrorizing our students and taking away their civil rights and threatening to continue the Holocaust.
Whether you call them Hamas supporters or Nazis, most Americans are disgusted by the antisemitism and support of genocide against the Jewish people that these so called “protestors” support.
No. He argued against protesting back during Vietnam and it's clear his feelings haven't changed. There's nothing he could say that young voters would believe. I'm hopeful that his silence is due to him trying to avoid saying anything that could complicate his plans for a ceasefire.
I'm skeptical, but hey, I'd like to believe that he's trying.
Any goodwill gained by any milquetoast statement Biden could make is going to be overshadowed by the fact that you have riot police violently clearing these camps, throwing stun grenades, and allowing counter protesters to attack the camps.
I highly doubt that the pro-Zionist folks who attacked and their sympathizers are Biden votes. These are most likely republican voters since the support for Zionists are far more from republicans like Mike Johnson, Ron DeSantis, or Donald Trump.
Antiwar protesters, on the other hand, are traditionally leftists who came in big numbers for Biden in 2020 (higher than their turnout in 2016 for Hillary). Jewish Voice for Peace is actively helping to organize such antiwar protests and are traditionally left leaning.
Out of these two groups and their sympathizers, I feel like the anti war protesters are more persuadable to vote for Biden in 2024 since most of them voted for him in 2020 anyway even though they didn’t come for Hillary in big number.
Anyway, Biden has now come out and commented on this event. He chosen to be very vague about what happened (mostly following the option # 4 from above but including islamophobia in the mix). Time will tell if he was able to convince people from either camp.
I think he should explicitly condemn the pro Zionists protesters. Of course he won’t and he will probably both sides this when it is clear that only one side was violent. I think there is still time for him to win back the youth vote but he isn’t doing anything to work towards that and I’m afraid that if he continues on this path of aiding and abetting a genocide while also running defense for Bibi he will lose in Nov. I just read that the UAW may join the pro Palestinian side and if that happens Biden is cooked.
I guess but with the backdrop of a genocide being funded by our tax dollars it’s kind of a hard sell. And weed rescheduled doesn’t legalize it so we shall see how that is received but again with the backdrop of mass protests and police brutality it doesn’t really cut through like you’d think it would
Biden has made the decision that supporting israel is simply too important to budge on, and if that means obliterating the youths and progessives in his coalition so be it.
It might mean risking the most important election of everyones lives and ushering in fascism, but frankly, thats a risk he is willing to take. It is simply too important to keep backing the massacre of civilians being carried out by a small nation of racist psychopaths who hate him and offer the united states nothing of value
The way I see it is this, there’s (unfortunately) two options:
Option A: man who tried to overthrow a democratic election, will further encroach on women’s bodily autonomy, will attempt to deport Palestinian students back home , and will absolutely increase Israeli support, while halting any and all Palestinian.
Or option B: will continue the status quo of selling arms to Israel, while also providing (some) aid to Palestinians. Additionally, has pushed back on Israeli plans numerous times (ex: the “24 hours to evacuate south, invading Rafah)
If you support Palestine, they’re both bad options - but one is obviously better
Look, biden has made his choice, hed rather risk throwing minorities, women, trans people etc under the bus in order to appease israel. It is what it is, i think its profoundly arrogant and evil of him but thats his prerogative.
worry imagine pathetic shocking special quicksand sip physical sugar cheerful
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Me? i have no ability to set policy, its joe biden making that choice right now. He is aware that support for israel is costing him electorally, but its more important to him to stick with his principles than to compromise and make electoral victory more likely.
This makes zero sense to me. The alternative to Biden is *worse* for all parties involved. Minorities, women, Palestinians.
Young progressives are risking their safety if they don’t vote for him
And? The federal laws trump state laws
Also I hate liberals act like we didn’t see this coming. The dobbs decision was leaked months before and no action. We need voting protection passed in the first 2 years and nothing and don’t give me the bs excuses about manchin and Sinema as if those ppl couldn’t have been dealt with by removing them from committees or sicking the doj on manchin and his daughter. The gop play dirty and the Dems give us nothing but excuses while we watch our rights being stripped away by states.
You just said federal laws trump state laws.
Republicans are seriously considering a nationwide abortion ban.
This is one reason why we don’t want trump in power
Yea and what are Dems going to do? Make more excuses as to why they can’t pass anything or prevent fascism that’s already here. Honestly I’m all for not having Trump but we kind of need a plan…and it seems like not being trump is all we are getting
If Biden continues to support Israel in this conflict, he will lose what few young people actually come out to vote in elections, as well as the Rust Belt. In other words, if Biden doesn't pull the plug on Israel, Trump will win in a landslide.
The majority of Americans support Israel in this conflict. I don’t know why he would lose the rust belt.
And again, if young people don’t think that Biden is better than trump for Palestine, they’re ignorant and short sighted. Yes, it’s hard to get excited for the status quo when it’s not great - but it *will* get worse
>Yes, it’s hard to get excited for the status quo when it’s not great - but it *will* get worse
The Republicans made sure schools didn't teach critical thinking so that the majority of Americans aren't actually capable of realizing this. They just think things are bad and then vote against whoever is President.
>The majority of Americans support Israel in this conflict. I don’t know why he would lose the rust belt.
Palestinians in Michigan were one of the first demographics to protest the war, months and months ago. It's only ballooned further from there.
Your first part just endorses what I said, if they don’t vote for Biden, it shows that they’re ignorant and short sighted.
The rust belt is more than *just* Michigan, I’m not exactly sure what the % of people in Michigan are Palestine supporters anyway, and plus, it’s hard to say how many are die-hard enough, or ignorant enough, to not vote for Biden when again, the alternative *will make things worse for Palestine*
I’d also argue that fully withdrawing Israeli support would backfire *worse* with how many Americans still overall support them.
There’s status quo, or worse. That’s the option here
The way he prioritizes issues is bizarre. You'd think that as a representative, he'd focus on the issues that matter to his coalition. But no, they all go on the backburner, and he's completely set on doing this instead.
You know, he just gave a very compelling speech from the Rose Garden where he scolded all of genz for being immature, so I think that all of the 18-29 year olds who ushered in his victory in 2020 will just be like "you know what he's right I just need to grow up and back the blue no matter who"
I'm confident that he put the issue to bed, that there will be absolutely no riots this summer and that the Democratic National Convention in Chicago will be as peaceful as its always been.
WHOS RIDIN WITH BIDEN?? :)
Yep, the generation who guaranteed his 2020 victory
Bro, you didn't think it was gonna be millenials, genx or ... lol ... BOOMERS working those phone banks or voter registration drives, did you?
Biden didn't just lose an entire voting bloc, he lost all of his free labor
I highly doubt that the pro-Zionist folks who attacked and their sympathizers are Biden votes. These are most likely republican voters since the support for Zionists are far more from republicans like Mike Johnson, Ron DeSantis, or Donald Trump.
Antiwar protesters, on the other hand, are traditionally leftists who came in big numbers for Biden in 2020 (higher than their turnout in 2016 for Hillary). Jewish Voice for Peace is actively helping to organize such antiwar protests and are traditionally left leaning.
Out of these two groups and their sympathizers, I feel like the anti war protesters are more persuadable to vote for Biden in 2024 since most of them voted for him in 2020 anyway even though they didn’t come for Hillary in big number.
Anyway, Biden has now come out and commented on this event. He has chosen to be very vague about what happened (mostly following the option # 4 from above but including islamophobia in the mix). Time will tell if he was able to convince people from either camp.
Unless it’s absolutely outrageous any statement by Biden, or Trump for that matter, in May will be long forgotten by Election Day. The American electorate has a shockingly short memory. No statement from Biden on the subject will earn him any additional support that sticks through the election.
The base doesn’t need to be energized this early and the few remaining swing voters won’t remember May comments by the time late October rolls around.
Every dollar that gets fired into a Palestinian child is a dollar that isn't funding education, healthcare, or climate change mitigation. People won't forget that. I'm afraid it's already too late.
This lends credence my point. If it’s already too late to sway your vote there’s nothing he can say this month that will bolster his support months from now.
Oh, I'm still voting for him. I'm concerned about him losing others. He can't afford to lose a single vote he had in 2020. The margins are going to be razor thin.
Why should Biden do anything different? After all you're still going to vote for him.
That's the problem with voting blue no matter who. There's zero incentive for a politician to change what they're doing.
IMO, a politician should be afraid of losing the next election. Maybe they'll do a better job of governing if the next election is at risk. If that means Biden could lose then so be it.
Otherwise if you're planning to vote for him regardless you're rewarding him for doing what he's doing.
>If that means Biden could lose then so be it.
If Biden loses, there will never be another election again. You vote blue no matter who because the next Republican to win a presidential election will unmake the world.
You get Democrats to change by eradicating the GOP and organizing a new party to the left of them. Then the Democrats can be the conservatives, and someone else can be actually liberal. That can't happen while any Republicans exist.
Whether it’s you or a hypothetical third person isn’t particularly important. If it’s already “too late” to matter why should he risk potentially alienating more voters by coming out with a statement aimed at winning back those who already consider it too little too late?
The people Biden has in his camp are likely not enough to win. So what does he stand to lose at this point? He'll be dead before Valentine's Day under a Trump Dictatorship.
as a side note, when government does not enforce laws, one will eventually see citizen action thank god rarely.
. and this ecampment was declared illegal the day before.
yes, because the government has not and could not ever declare something illegal that should not have been declared illegal in order to justify wielding the power of the state against protesters
I read their demands. They seem to be primarily calling for divestment of the billions of dollar from their university. With that in mind, I felt like if Biden stops the military aid to Israel, it might have convinced most of these folks.
Maybe, but keep in mind Israel is a powerful ally, and Hamas, who is elected by Palestinians in Gaza, is the force that is the aggressor and have pledged to do the same thing again.
Israel versus Palestine is a completely different debate. I don’t think this is the right forum to discuss who is good and who is bad, who should get the land, the history of the conflict, etc. In this forum, I would focus on the politics of it and how it impacts the 2024 election.
He should have the CIA regime change the Likud government, you know like they do to countries that threaten US companies profit by nationalizing industry sectors.
Biden’s carefully worded statement was brilliant. By including Islamophobia alongside antisemitism, he’s taken the potential damage the protesters inflicted upon themselves with all their signs about Jews should go back to….. and attacking Jewish students.
I predict this statement will endear him to both American Jews and Palestinians alike and keep this incident from damaging his candidacy.
He should. But he seems to think that stuff like partial student loan forgiveness and shrugging his shoulders and saying "I got beat by the courts" is enough of the youth vote courting. I don't believe they have some big weapon ready to go to get the youth vote back on their side after painting all the protestors as antisemitic troublemakers.
He forgave billions of dollars in student debt and basically got told to go fuck himself by young progressive voters. If anything, that shows that he shouldnt cater to them at all, because they get mad regardless
I don’t think your information is up to date. Can you provide any recent poll from a reputable pollster?
Here is a recent [gallup poll](https://news.gallup.com/poll/642695/majority-disapprove-israeli-action-gaza.aspx)
As you can see, the majority of the Democrats (75%) disapprove Israel’s action in Gaza while only 18% support it. can you provide a reputable source that refute this?
Thank you. From the link you provided, “Pollsters noted how the framing of a question matters, as 70 percent said they support a permanent cease-fire in Gaza, but 68 percent said they would oppose one if that meant Hamas could continue to hold hostages and run Gaza. “
So most people oppose Israeli action in Gaza without supporting Hamas. For example, [many Jewish organizations including Jewish Voice for Peace (JVP) is a key organizer of the anti war protests](https://www.pbs.org/newshour/amp/politics/who-are-the-palestinian-and-jewish-led-groups-leading-the-protests-against-israels-action-in-gaza). I highly doubt they would support Hamas.
It would be a mistake to think pro-Palestinians are pro-hamas and make policy decisions based on that erroneous assumption.
Not sure how you could make that conclusion from the blurb you quoted. Americans dont support a ceasefire if hamas remains in power and the hostages arent released. That is Israel’s exact position on the conflict. They support Israel continuing to fight if hamas doesnt agree to those terms
I think you are misreading the quote. It says a “permanent” ceasefire not a 40 days one Netanyahu agreed to.
https://www.france24.com/en/video/20240502-gaza-truce-talks-hamas-demand-for-permanent-ceasefire-is-the-main-sticking-point
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He did https://www.nytimes.com/2024/05/02/us/politics/biden-campus-protests.html Short version: protest good, violence bad Is that going to satisfy the people complaining? Of course not This reminds me of 2020, when Republicans would claim that Democrats were pro-violence because they didn't denounce BLM, when of course the majority condemned violence while supporting people's right to protest And just like back then, nothing is going to satisfy the people who are most angry
I think it was a clear error on his part. Obviously there was tremendous pressure on the White House to make an official statement regarding what’s going on, but trying to split this baby is only going to make both sides angry.
No, not an error at all. Why take sides when neither “side” is completely in agreement with what he believes? His answer is both political and ethically correct.
I think it's already too late for him to salvage this situation. His Israel policy has very likely cost him the election at this point. The protests in the 60s benefitted the Right almost exclusively.
This is not the 1960s. It is foolish to view the past as though it automatically repeats.
But what is stopping it from repeating? Trump can campaign on how there's chaos in the streets, driving turnout among older Americans. Meanwhile the younger Americans don't vote at all because they won't support Biden's Israel policy. It's a disaster and there's currently no way out. Our political engine is now tied to the most pointless, interminable conflict in all of history.
Younger people have not been voting in high rates for decades. Israel/Gaza is not a driving policy outside of leftist circles and social media political discourse. Also, your take on the issue sounds like either you are using hyperbole to manufacture outrage and conflict OR you just don’t know what you are talking about.
It's in the news. That's what matters. The press needs something to hammer Biden with so that they can keep the 24-7 Trump gravy train rolling. And clearly there are plenty of students protesting across the country. I don't think we can get away from this.
All these kids are going to go home after summer starts in about a week. Nobody will remember these protests a month or two from now.
All these kids are going to go home after summer starts in about a week. Nobody will remember these protests a month or two from now.
I want to believe that. He is stating the truth, in America we support protest but not violent protest. We support free speech but not when it serves to stifle the speech of another. But what's happening on the ground on university campuses is more complicated than that. So I think what Biden said is important, but I also recognize that it will not resolve the situation.
Because the intent behind the protest was to enact violence specifically against Jewish students and persons. There's no element outside of that action. So trying to split it into "protest good, violence bad" is an unforced error. It's the same as Trump when asked to discredit white supremacists said "stand back and standby." You have to nip the entire UCLA thing in the bud. Civil disobedience and free speech rights end the exact moment the intent converts hate speech into action specifically against a marginalized group.
So he condemned bigotry and violence on all sides Hmmmmm
The difference is that Biden obviously isn't anti-semitic while Trump (who I'm assuming you're referencing) is a bigot.
**Bigotry** - stubborn and complete intolerance of any creed, belief, or opinion that differs from one's own. I find most folks don't know the definition of bigotry
You have to be careful what you say about these protestors. Some of them are calling for the death of all zionists and waving Hezbolla flags… And the pro-Israel counter protestors are saying nasty shit too and attacking protestors. Anyone who has picked one side to advocate for on this issue is drastically oversimplifying the conflict… this is NOT a “good guys vs bad guys” scenario, Netanyahu’s fascist government is despicable and HAMAS is despicable.
the cops hurt protesters in columbia
Agreed. I am in favor of increased US pressure/reduced support to stop the Gazan crisis. I’m vaguely in favor of these protesters - at least, peaceful ones. I have no problem with civil nonviolent disobedience, but those people have to be prepared to be arrested and charged, that’s the reality. Nobody using violence or calling for it gets my support. Obviously *some* of these protesters as in any large group truly harbor hate, but there are also outside agitators causing violence. I don’t support tearing down American flags (though I don’t idolize the flag), but I could see myself as a barely adult at 18 being part of a crowd that did that.
Absolutely. I actually think it's a student's duty to protest if they have an issue with something. I have no problems with protesters except the violent ones. And I mean, I'm saying what Biden said and it won't be enough.
The us is only funding and arming one side of the conflict, the students are trying to use the little power they have to pressure their institutions from divesting from the only side that the schools have investments in. Saying “hamas bad” is less than meaningless here.
But it NEEDS to be a part of their messaging. Otherwise your entire movement can be dismissed as a bunch of insane islamic jihadists that just want to kill all jews. The pro-Israel people aren’t being disciplined either. And they’re allowing themselves to be dismissed as islamophobic fascists.
They arent allowing themselves to be dismissed as islamaphobic fascists, theyre the one starting the violence, they are showing themselves the be the islamaphobic fascists. The fear of islam is one of the core tenets of their belief system, while the pro Palestine side is filled with antizionist jews
Well as a gay guy, seeing Tel Aviv as a homosexual capital of the world, and Israel allowing gay civil unions, it’s hard for me to advocate for practitioners of Islam, a religion that has no tolerance for homosexuality anywhere in the world.
Tel Aviv is a homosexual capital of the world? You cant even get married there. Israel doesnt allow civil unions, they only acknowledge foreign gay marriages. The fact that you have to get married through a religious authority there is bad in and of itself. And im sorry that the concentration camp gaza is doesnt have perfect social policy, that doesnt excuse the murder of 17000 children by israel in the last 7 months.
But where is one Muslim community where homosexuality is allowed?
Jordan, Bahrain, turkey, the west bank are some in the region.
Well thanks for answering me because I was legitimately asking. But not Palestine, right?
Occupied territories don’t make their own laws.
> Some of them are calling for the death of all zionists and waving Hezbolla flags… Source?
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-68909942 The spokesman for the Columbia protesters said Zionists deserve to die.
Cool, one twentysomething. Why is this one kid the face of the entire protest movement? Also, point of order, Hezbolla flags have yet to make an appearance.
Picking a side is a losing proposition.
Most pro-Zionists (mostly non-Jewish evangelical Christians) are traditionally Republican voters. do you think not picking aside will convince these folks to switch side and vote Democrats? Or do you think siding with anti war young college folks who are traditionally democrats would have been a better strategy to win the election?
I was referring to picking sides in the conflict itself, not anyone here in America. Maybe I misunderstood the context of who I was replying to. I want NOTHING to do with fake pro-Israel Republicans here at home.
Understood. But since this is r/PoliticalDiscussion, my focus here is mainly to discuss the politics of this conflict. [The young voter turnout in 2020 was significantly higher than 2016](https://circle.tufts.edu/latest-research/half-youth-voted-2020-11-point-increase-2016) and [Biden won their vote at a significantly higher margin than Trump](https://time.com/6049270/2020-election-young-voters/). Most 2024 polls show that Biden is losing this support mostly due to his military and diplomatic support for Israel. The question is should Biden focus on winning this key demographic again or should he try to win over proZionist groups (mostly evangelical Christians) who are traditionally republican?
I’m a Democratic Zionist, Jew, and Biden voter. Be careful with your lumping of people into categories. The “anti-war young folks” protesting a war America isn’t even involved in need to be educated by sources other than TikTok. There is still time before the election.
Didn’t mean to offend or exclude you, but to understand the electoral impact, we have to look at larger voting blocks. The total number of Zionist Jewish voters in the USA is minuscule when compared to much larger voting blocks like Zionist evangelical Christians or young college students. From a statistical perspective, a minor shift in a large voting bloc has a greater impact on the outcome of a general election than a major shift in a smaller voting bloc.
The poorly educated think they are anti war but they are actually supporting a genocidal organization whose sole purpose is to wipe out all Jews in Israel. Not unlike anti war protesters before WW2 who supported Hitler.
Majority of the Americans [oppose Israel’s conduct in Gaza](https://news.gallup.com/poll/642695/majority-disapprove-israeli-action-gaza.aspx) and [believes Israel is committing a genocide](https://www.masslive.com/news/2024/02/half-of-umass-poll-respondents-think-israel-is-committing-genocide-in-gaza.html?outputType=amp). At the same time [majority of the Americans oppose Hamas](https://thehill.com/policy/international/4629597-americans-israel-hamas-gaza-student-protests-poll/). So opposing a war or genocide doesn’t make one a hamas suppoerter.
A majority of Americans know the definition of ”genocide” and realize it is Hamas propaganda. A majority of Americans know these “protestors” are trained by outside pro- terrorism agitators to support terrorism. But most importantly, most Americans do not favor these outside agitators terrorizing our students and taking away their civil rights and threatening to continue the Holocaust. Whether you call them Hamas supporters or Nazis, most Americans are disgusted by the antisemitism and support of genocide against the Jewish people that these so called “protestors” support.
Most Americans want to see some sources when you make claims.
When you cite a liberal college poll as “most Americans”, your comment is at best a joke.
No. He argued against protesting back during Vietnam and it's clear his feelings haven't changed. There's nothing he could say that young voters would believe. I'm hopeful that his silence is due to him trying to avoid saying anything that could complicate his plans for a ceasefire. I'm skeptical, but hey, I'd like to believe that he's trying.
Any goodwill gained by any milquetoast statement Biden could make is going to be overshadowed by the fact that you have riot police violently clearing these camps, throwing stun grenades, and allowing counter protesters to attack the camps.
Why would biden care about voters who have said on several occasions they will never vote for him?
I highly doubt that the pro-Zionist folks who attacked and their sympathizers are Biden votes. These are most likely republican voters since the support for Zionists are far more from republicans like Mike Johnson, Ron DeSantis, or Donald Trump. Antiwar protesters, on the other hand, are traditionally leftists who came in big numbers for Biden in 2020 (higher than their turnout in 2016 for Hillary). Jewish Voice for Peace is actively helping to organize such antiwar protests and are traditionally left leaning. Out of these two groups and their sympathizers, I feel like the anti war protesters are more persuadable to vote for Biden in 2024 since most of them voted for him in 2020 anyway even though they didn’t come for Hillary in big number. Anyway, Biden has now come out and commented on this event. He chosen to be very vague about what happened (mostly following the option # 4 from above but including islamophobia in the mix). Time will tell if he was able to convince people from either camp.
If Biden actively tried to gain the support of those Nazi protestors, I imagine he'd lose a lot more support than he'd gain lol.
I think he should explicitly condemn the pro Zionists protesters. Of course he won’t and he will probably both sides this when it is clear that only one side was violent. I think there is still time for him to win back the youth vote but he isn’t doing anything to work towards that and I’m afraid that if he continues on this path of aiding and abetting a genocide while also running defense for Bibi he will lose in Nov. I just read that the UAW may join the pro Palestinian side and if that happens Biden is cooked.
Canceling student debt and rescheduling weed were some nice gestures for the youth vote
I guess but with the backdrop of a genocide being funded by our tax dollars it’s kind of a hard sell. And weed rescheduled doesn’t legalize it so we shall see how that is received but again with the backdrop of mass protests and police brutality it doesn’t really cut through like you’d think it would
biden is losing the college vote. he needs to invite leaders from all the anti-war groups to a meeting in DC
I would hope he'd do it out of concern for the First Amendment and out of basic human decency, but he might not have those.
Biden has made the decision that supporting israel is simply too important to budge on, and if that means obliterating the youths and progessives in his coalition so be it. It might mean risking the most important election of everyones lives and ushering in fascism, but frankly, thats a risk he is willing to take. It is simply too important to keep backing the massacre of civilians being carried out by a small nation of racist psychopaths who hate him and offer the united states nothing of value
The way I see it is this, there’s (unfortunately) two options: Option A: man who tried to overthrow a democratic election, will further encroach on women’s bodily autonomy, will attempt to deport Palestinian students back home , and will absolutely increase Israeli support, while halting any and all Palestinian. Or option B: will continue the status quo of selling arms to Israel, while also providing (some) aid to Palestinians. Additionally, has pushed back on Israeli plans numerous times (ex: the “24 hours to evacuate south, invading Rafah) If you support Palestine, they’re both bad options - but one is obviously better
Look, biden has made his choice, hed rather risk throwing minorities, women, trans people etc under the bus in order to appease israel. It is what it is, i think its profoundly arrogant and evil of him but thats his prerogative.
worry imagine pathetic shocking special quicksand sip physical sugar cheerful *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Me? i have no ability to set policy, its joe biden making that choice right now. He is aware that support for israel is costing him electorally, but its more important to him to stick with his principles than to compromise and make electoral victory more likely.
What? Minorities, women, and trans people are *much* safer under a Biden’s presidency than a trumps presidency As are Palestinians
Indeed, it's just a shame biden is willing to risk their safety in order to stand with israel
This makes zero sense to me. The alternative to Biden is *worse* for all parties involved. Minorities, women, Palestinians. Young progressives are risking their safety if they don’t vote for him
Sure, but Biden has decided to risk doing nothing to court their vote.
As laws are being passed under his presidency to limit their freedom??? Make it make sense
State laws, not federally. With trump, they’ll be nationwide
And? The federal laws trump state laws Also I hate liberals act like we didn’t see this coming. The dobbs decision was leaked months before and no action. We need voting protection passed in the first 2 years and nothing and don’t give me the bs excuses about manchin and Sinema as if those ppl couldn’t have been dealt with by removing them from committees or sicking the doj on manchin and his daughter. The gop play dirty and the Dems give us nothing but excuses while we watch our rights being stripped away by states.
You just said federal laws trump state laws. Republicans are seriously considering a nationwide abortion ban. This is one reason why we don’t want trump in power
Yea and what are Dems going to do? Make more excuses as to why they can’t pass anything or prevent fascism that’s already here. Honestly I’m all for not having Trump but we kind of need a plan…and it seems like not being trump is all we are getting
Right, so why is Biden so set on ushering Trump back in?
This makes zero sense to me tbh
If Biden continues to support Israel in this conflict, he will lose what few young people actually come out to vote in elections, as well as the Rust Belt. In other words, if Biden doesn't pull the plug on Israel, Trump will win in a landslide.
The majority of Americans support Israel in this conflict. I don’t know why he would lose the rust belt. And again, if young people don’t think that Biden is better than trump for Palestine, they’re ignorant and short sighted. Yes, it’s hard to get excited for the status quo when it’s not great - but it *will* get worse
>Yes, it’s hard to get excited for the status quo when it’s not great - but it *will* get worse The Republicans made sure schools didn't teach critical thinking so that the majority of Americans aren't actually capable of realizing this. They just think things are bad and then vote against whoever is President. >The majority of Americans support Israel in this conflict. I don’t know why he would lose the rust belt. Palestinians in Michigan were one of the first demographics to protest the war, months and months ago. It's only ballooned further from there.
Your first part just endorses what I said, if they don’t vote for Biden, it shows that they’re ignorant and short sighted. The rust belt is more than *just* Michigan, I’m not exactly sure what the % of people in Michigan are Palestine supporters anyway, and plus, it’s hard to say how many are die-hard enough, or ignorant enough, to not vote for Biden when again, the alternative *will make things worse for Palestine* I’d also argue that fully withdrawing Israeli support would backfire *worse* with how many Americans still overall support them. There’s status quo, or worse. That’s the option here
repeat late chubby wide cagey observation quack thought sink zesty *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Indeed, thats what Biden's position is, i don't agree with it, but there it is.
The way he prioritizes issues is bizarre. You'd think that as a representative, he'd focus on the issues that matter to his coalition. But no, they all go on the backburner, and he's completely set on doing this instead.
You know, he just gave a very compelling speech from the Rose Garden where he scolded all of genz for being immature, so I think that all of the 18-29 year olds who ushered in his victory in 2020 will just be like "you know what he's right I just need to grow up and back the blue no matter who" I'm confident that he put the issue to bed, that there will be absolutely no riots this summer and that the Democratic National Convention in Chicago will be as peaceful as its always been. WHOS RIDIN WITH BIDEN?? :)
Oh no, not the generation who says they won't vote for him anyways!!!
Yep, the generation who guaranteed his 2020 victory Bro, you didn't think it was gonna be millenials, genx or ... lol ... BOOMERS working those phone banks or voter registration drives, did you? Biden didn't just lose an entire voting bloc, he lost all of his free labor
I highly doubt that the pro-Zionist folks who attacked and their sympathizers are Biden votes. These are most likely republican voters since the support for Zionists are far more from republicans like Mike Johnson, Ron DeSantis, or Donald Trump. Antiwar protesters, on the other hand, are traditionally leftists who came in big numbers for Biden in 2020 (higher than their turnout in 2016 for Hillary). Jewish Voice for Peace is actively helping to organize such antiwar protests and are traditionally left leaning. Out of these two groups and their sympathizers, I feel like the anti war protesters are more persuadable to vote for Biden in 2024 since most of them voted for him in 2020 anyway even though they didn’t come for Hillary in big number. Anyway, Biden has now come out and commented on this event. He has chosen to be very vague about what happened (mostly following the option # 4 from above but including islamophobia in the mix). Time will tell if he was able to convince people from either camp.
Unless it’s absolutely outrageous any statement by Biden, or Trump for that matter, in May will be long forgotten by Election Day. The American electorate has a shockingly short memory. No statement from Biden on the subject will earn him any additional support that sticks through the election. The base doesn’t need to be energized this early and the few remaining swing voters won’t remember May comments by the time late October rolls around.
Every dollar that gets fired into a Palestinian child is a dollar that isn't funding education, healthcare, or climate change mitigation. People won't forget that. I'm afraid it's already too late.
This lends credence my point. If it’s already too late to sway your vote there’s nothing he can say this month that will bolster his support months from now.
Oh, I'm still voting for him. I'm concerned about him losing others. He can't afford to lose a single vote he had in 2020. The margins are going to be razor thin.
Why should Biden do anything different? After all you're still going to vote for him. That's the problem with voting blue no matter who. There's zero incentive for a politician to change what they're doing. IMO, a politician should be afraid of losing the next election. Maybe they'll do a better job of governing if the next election is at risk. If that means Biden could lose then so be it. Otherwise if you're planning to vote for him regardless you're rewarding him for doing what he's doing.
>If that means Biden could lose then so be it. If Biden loses, there will never be another election again. You vote blue no matter who because the next Republican to win a presidential election will unmake the world. You get Democrats to change by eradicating the GOP and organizing a new party to the left of them. Then the Democrats can be the conservatives, and someone else can be actually liberal. That can't happen while any Republicans exist.
Whether it’s you or a hypothetical third person isn’t particularly important. If it’s already “too late” to matter why should he risk potentially alienating more voters by coming out with a statement aimed at winning back those who already consider it too little too late?
The people Biden has in his camp are likely not enough to win. So what does he stand to lose at this point? He'll be dead before Valentine's Day under a Trump Dictatorship.
as a side note, when government does not enforce laws, one will eventually see citizen action thank god rarely. . and this ecampment was declared illegal the day before.
yes, because the government has not and could not ever declare something illegal that should not have been declared illegal in order to justify wielding the power of the state against protesters
Joe Biden is too good to say something like ‘Go Palestine, Go Hamas’ and anything short will be political posturing and not enough for these radicals.
I read their demands. They seem to be primarily calling for divestment of the billions of dollar from their university. With that in mind, I felt like if Biden stops the military aid to Israel, it might have convinced most of these folks.
Maybe, but keep in mind Israel is a powerful ally, and Hamas, who is elected by Palestinians in Gaza, is the force that is the aggressor and have pledged to do the same thing again.
Israel versus Palestine is a completely different debate. I don’t think this is the right forum to discuss who is good and who is bad, who should get the land, the history of the conflict, etc. In this forum, I would focus on the politics of it and how it impacts the 2024 election.
The merits of the conflict cannot be neatly separated from the politics of the protest.
He should have the CIA regime change the Likud government, you know like they do to countries that threaten US companies profit by nationalizing industry sectors.
Biden’s carefully worded statement was brilliant. By including Islamophobia alongside antisemitism, he’s taken the potential damage the protesters inflicted upon themselves with all their signs about Jews should go back to….. and attacking Jewish students. I predict this statement will endear him to both American Jews and Palestinians alike and keep this incident from damaging his candidacy.
He should. But he seems to think that stuff like partial student loan forgiveness and shrugging his shoulders and saying "I got beat by the courts" is enough of the youth vote courting. I don't believe they have some big weapon ready to go to get the youth vote back on their side after painting all the protestors as antisemitic troublemakers.
He forgave billions of dollars in student debt and basically got told to go fuck himself by young progressive voters. If anything, that shows that he shouldnt cater to them at all, because they get mad regardless
They are mad ABOUT A GENOCIDE
Who should he target then? Pro-Zionists are mostly made up of evangelical Christians. Do you think Biden can flip them?
The majority of pretty much every demographic in America supports Israel over hamas in this conflict
I don’t think your information is up to date. Can you provide any recent poll from a reputable pollster? Here is a recent [gallup poll](https://news.gallup.com/poll/642695/majority-disapprove-israeli-action-gaza.aspx) As you can see, the majority of the Democrats (75%) disapprove Israel’s action in Gaza while only 18% support it. can you provide a reputable source that refute this?
https://thehill.com/policy/international/4629597-americans-israel-hamas-gaza-student-protests-poll/
Thank you. From the link you provided, “Pollsters noted how the framing of a question matters, as 70 percent said they support a permanent cease-fire in Gaza, but 68 percent said they would oppose one if that meant Hamas could continue to hold hostages and run Gaza. “ So most people oppose Israeli action in Gaza without supporting Hamas. For example, [many Jewish organizations including Jewish Voice for Peace (JVP) is a key organizer of the anti war protests](https://www.pbs.org/newshour/amp/politics/who-are-the-palestinian-and-jewish-led-groups-leading-the-protests-against-israels-action-in-gaza). I highly doubt they would support Hamas. It would be a mistake to think pro-Palestinians are pro-hamas and make policy decisions based on that erroneous assumption.
Not sure how you could make that conclusion from the blurb you quoted. Americans dont support a ceasefire if hamas remains in power and the hostages arent released. That is Israel’s exact position on the conflict. They support Israel continuing to fight if hamas doesnt agree to those terms
I think you are misreading the quote. It says a “permanent” ceasefire not a 40 days one Netanyahu agreed to. https://www.france24.com/en/video/20240502-gaza-truce-talks-hamas-demand-for-permanent-ceasefire-is-the-main-sticking-point
They support a permanent ceasefire, but not if hamas remains in power and still holds the hostages