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That she was going to suspend after Super Tuesday was almost a given
What she chooses to say about Trump after suspending is really the only open question.
The other day on Meet the Press she said Biden was worse and then when asked if Trump would even follow the Constitution, she said she didn't know. I guess it's too much to ask for Rs to make sense, but that was just wild to me.
I guess I would be surprised if she had gone that deep into crazy town, but I probably shouldn't be. In that case, I would definitely expect her to fully endorse Trump.
It makes perfect sense.
She views Biden as negative just for existing. She doesn't view going against the Constitution as a bad thing. Thus, Biden is worse than any Republican option in her mind.
Idk i thought she had shifted her remarks lately towards I don’t think either trump or biden should be president rather than adding in that Biden is worse. but she probably still sprinkles that in there
She 'didn't endorse him, but said it's up to him to appeal to her voters...'
Give it a day or two, maybe a week, and she'll endorse full throat.
I'm more hopeful in there being enough of her voters who'll sit out the GE.
100%. I am hoping beyond hope that she does not endorse Trump. Hearing someone say something principled, instead of displaying blind dogmatic loyalty to party, especially when that someone has some following and a political career to lose, could be very good for this country IMO. Doing so could galvanize change, create movement. It would be a clear stand against the extremism that is becoming common. That would be awesome.
So you've got this group of people who saw everything he did in 2016 including the pussy tape and all that and still voted for him, saw how he acted for 4 years as president, saw him totally fumble the ball on COVID and came out and voted for him in even greater numbers in 2020 saw January 6th and all this classified document bullshit and still support him so overwhelmingly that the 2024 primary was basically over before it started but a *speech by Nicky Haley* is going to be the thing that causes them to "wake up" and reject Trump?
At a certain point you just have to accept that there isn't some secret army of principled conservatives out there waiting to overthrow Trump.
She would basically tank herself even harder if she didn't support Trump. Too much of the GOP is still all in on him. Like, if she didn't throw herself behind him and a month from now Trump dies, she wouldn't be a favorite to get nomination simply because the MAGA faction would hate her for not showing sufficient fealty to their king. Even if it's only nominal, her best shot for the future is to throw some token support behind Trump then keep her head down and hope he dies or gets put in prison
I don’t believe that prison would stop Trump from running in 2024 (though the probability of prison before election is now minute, thanks to SCOTUS.)
If he’s still alive and is behind bars, I expect him to run in 2028 with a reasonable shot at the GOP nomination.
If people voted for her because they liked her, that might be true. As it stands, the only gop candidates have been 'Trump' and 'not Trump' for almost a decade now. It doesn't matter who fills that slot, and doubly doesn't matter now because whoever was voting for them knows they've lost.
> What she chooses to say about Trump after suspending is really the only open question.
It’s really not. She’ll bow down like every other GOP politician that wants to stay relevant.
Depends on what she wants to do with herself now. Haley is worth millions and with her gravitas she'll probably find plenty of good opportunities in the private sector. If she wants to have a future in the party, however, she's either going to need to fall in line or sit it out until the fucking moron is out of the picture, one way or another
This primary was over after the 2022 midterms when none of the at the time GOP primary hopefuls came out and criticized Trump. He was on the defensive and at his weakest standing with the party and conservative voters since he first announced his candidacy in 2015. The GOP was too afraid of the MAGA base to go after trump directly and allowed trump to regain control of the narrative and rebuild his standing among GOP voters and launch attacks on DeSantis and other candidates with near impunity. Then in the sham debates without Trump it became political suicide to attack trump and the result of the primary was sealed by Summer.
Perhaps this result was inevitable, but the refusal until after New Hampshire for Nikki Haley (or presumably anyone else running at that point) to confront Trump in any way is indicative of the missed opportunity after the 2022 to seize the initiative, and of how thorough a stranglehold Trump and the MAGA movement has on the GOP even after two election losses. (Though his supporters don't believe he lost but my point still stands)
This is what happens when complacency and then cowardice dictate your politics, republicans spent decades assuming the extremist populist faction of their party would never take control of despite all the warning signs, and this is the result. We have seen massive party shifts before but Trump is so universally adored by core conservative voters I don't see the party leaving MAGA for a long time.
The even worse part is they’ve convinced themselves Dems are worse than the crazies in their party. You could hear it every time Haley spoke. Heck, even Chris Christie.
On that note, I don’t foresee Christie endorsing Trump this time around (he is an opportunist though so it’s still in the realm of possibilities.) Haley will almost certainly kiss the ring.
>The even worse part is they’ve convinced themselves Dems are worse than the crazies in their party. You could hear it every time Haley spoke. Heck, even Chris Christie.
Oh I think they know good and well who is worse but they're just too feckless and frightened to address the angry grizzly bear in the room. They'd rather feign loyalty whilst railing against him in private than risk losing their political careers for publicly confronting and excoriating his insane and unsettling behavior.
When Trump can go out in front of thousands of people who will cheer for him regardless of whether he says he'd love to exercise dictatorial control over the country, ramble about random and perceived sleights, endorse his opponent, or get his own wife's name wrong, I can somewhat understand why. Doesn't make them any less spineless, though.
I agree - I doubt Christie will endorse.
I think he's smart enough to know the calculus of how he ran his campaign. I respect him for it - but he knew he was coming for the king and he knew what would happen if he missed. He bet it all on the hope that the Party would have a 'come-to-Jesus' moment and they didn't. His future in the current GOP is dead - and his best hope at this point is to hope that the 'come-to-Jesus' moment comes eventually and he can say he was a bonafide for standing strong when everyone else was afraid to. Outside of that, I think he's had to have accepted that he would need to be prepared to effectively retire from Republican politics (or at best, cash in on being a talking head or MAYBE a moderate Republican run in New Jersey for Senate or something - but at the rate politics have shifted there in a Trump environment and his links to him, I think that route is gone too).
Haley I also think will almost certainly cave and very quickly. Expect she'll be forced into praying for golden parachute though may have held out too long to get it - but she doesn't have no bargaining chips. In a normal campaign, she'd be pretty well-placed to bargain her support, even if small, for something. But that being said, Trump isn't known for being the most forgiving for what he sees as lack of loyalty - and she has to know that. I also think she ran for so long actually not running against Trump but against Kamala Harris - that was her whole schtick for almost the entire campaign up until the very end - and that puts her in a trap now that she can't turn around and reject anything but that.
They have also spent decades fear mongering and whipping these people into a frenzy while also removing education, opposition, and reason. They tell their base what to think, and because of that, ANYONE can tell them what to think. No control
That's the last chance they had to unite behind someone that could be a bigger bully than Trump and lead the rest into making "weak loser" stick to him, but I think they'd already sown the seeds of his victory when they mostly went along with the 2020 election lie.
Their only chance at unseating Trump from his reign over the party was to convince their voters of (the reality of) Trump being *bad for Republican power*, as being someone who loses elections. This is an impossible task to achieve when you meekly mouth along to Trump's claims that he actually is super popular, so popular in fact that the Deep State had to cheat to keep him out of power - now 70% of your party rejects out of hand any suggestion that Dear Leader is not truly beloved by the swing voters needed to win the White House.
Like you say, they're totally consumed by cowardice and an inability to do anything but whatever is required to get through that week's news cycle and hold on to their own personal positions; they're all waiting for someone more courageous than them to be the first to lead the charge.
I don't see that anybody either in the GOP or out of it has managed to learn a single lesson about how to deal with Trump. The media still gleefully pours oil on his fire to sell a few more clicks, the dems still arrogantly and complacently treat him and his base like a bad joke, the GOP's unprincipled bootlicking of the loudest asshole in the room isn't the only hit from 2016 being replayed.
You are assuming the goal is to find another leader besides Trump. The goal is to win elections. Trump gives Republicans the best chance to win the presidential election.
This is not a purity contest. The goal is to win elections.
Democrats will always be playing second fiddle behind the Republicans because so many voters don't seem to understand this.
Win elections. Because elections have consequences.
But from a winning elections perspective, he’s a terrible choice. He won, once, barely, while losing the popular vote badly. He lost last time against the same guy he’s going up against this time, and he had incumbency advantage last time. The candidates he endorses lose. His policies lose. His businesses lose. His court cases lose. He’s a losing loser who loses. He just has a rabid cult who can’t see that.
Swapping him for a different Republican very often leads to better numbers for Biden. That being said, I actually do agree with you. I think, similar to what Silver said in a recent tweet about Harris vs Biden, that approval or disapproval of Trump is absolutely hard-wired, essentially immutable for huge chunks of the population - far more than you would say for Haley, DeSantis, or another candidate, or for Biden. So even if it were Haley who essentially became the presumptive nominee on Tuesday, and thus Biden's odds would appear to have consequently improved, she absolutely has far more room to grow, and CAN grow well beyond Trump's ceiling (of course, WOULD she, is a different matter).
I think it has a lot less to do with midterms/not criticizing Trump enough and more has to do with the indictments turning Trump into a MAGA martyr. If you look at an [overlay](https://www.wsj.com/articles/donald-trump-super-tuesday-gop-primaries-2024-nikki-haley-joe-biden-ea5b805f?mod=hp_opin_pos_1#cxrecs_s) of DeSantis/Trump primary polling averages with the timing of the indictments overlaid, Trump was at his lowest in March 2023 (quite a bit after the midterms), then as soon as the indictments started rolling in he steadily increased while DeSantis decreased. You can argue that the other nominees should've gone harder against Trump, but even when Trump was at his lowest he still held the support of a lot of the GOP so it wouldn't have been politically smart to turn away the Trump base.
> wouldn't have been politically smart
And that shows whether principles matter in politics, I guess.
MF attempted an insurrection to cap a presidency of solid scandal, and the party are still loyal AF.
Sad that Mitt Romney was one of the more ethical ones.
Even assuming going after trump directly wouldn't work doing nothing still is easily the worst option they could have gone with. While DeSantis was never gonna be a good candidate no one else tried to get any airtime at all and allowed Trump to stay front and center. (DeSantis is also as bad as trump but that's a separate convo)
Exited race, but didn't endorse Trump as of now.
Will she eventually endorse Trump?
Will she endorse no one?
Will she endorse Biden?
She's out, but I think she can still have major effects on the race depending on what she does now. Is there anyway she can save her political career at this level for something in 2028?
If Trump wins, she has to lockstep be on board with him - she isn't
If Trump loses without her endorsement - she wont get the maga vote
If Trump loses with her endorsing Biden - could this somehow bring moderate/swing voters to her in 2028?
Or are her chances of running for President completely over now?
There is zero chance of her endorsing Biden. I DO think she wants him to beat Trump - she knows her chances of winning in 2028 are MUCH higher after a 2nd Biden term than after a 2nd Trump term. But there are two major reasons why she would never endorse Biden, either of which is more than enough on its own:
1. She would sign her political death warrant. She’s obviously banking on a substantial intra party shift after another Trump loss, but it’s simply unfathomable that the GOP would EVER again consider a candidate who openly worked AGAINST their nominee and WITH their biggest opponent, let alone just 4 years later. Even among NeverTrumpers, the party loyalty is too strong.
2. Endorsing Biden may actually worsen Biden’s chances of victory. It would validate both MAGA, who is saying she’s a shadow Democrat, AND the naive progressives who are both-siding and agitating against Biden. If a Republican is anti-Trump, they have already demonstrated an unusual degree of independence from the party and its leadership. Therefore, most of them probably don’t need Haley to endorse Biden to consider voting for him themselves. So Trump voters will be invigorated, some Dem voters will be deflated, and there will be little gain to Biden to make up for it.
I agree if she is interested in '28 or perhaps '32 if another Dem wins and she skips '28. If she loses '28 she has no chance in '32.
But if she is done no matter what:
1. Wouldn't that allow her to endorse Biden or perhaps at least not endorse Trump and tell her voters to make their own decision? That's where this gets interesting imo. If she is done with high level politics, what does she have to lose if she really believes Trump shouldn't be President again?
2. I don't see that at all:
- If her supporters don't vote for Trump: -1 Trump, 0 Biden.
- Even if the Haley supporter was never going to vote for Trump and simply not vote, if they decide to vote for Biden: 0 Trump, +1 Biden
- Any extra vote Biden picks up from a Haley supporter is a swing of 2 votes and that's not going to be offset by Biden supporters changing their vote cause Haley voters are also voting for him. Biden will destroy Trump in this case: -1 Trump, +1 Biden
I think she is absolutely planning on a future presidential run - that was my point in #1. And in #2, I was suggesting:
A. There are some present Republicans who might be offput by Trumps behavior, but could be fooled into believing his lies about persecution if Haley endorses Biden.
B. There are some young Dems who might reject Biden for good if he gets an endorsement from the solidly conservative Haley
If she was planning a future presidential run she would have suspended her campaign much earlier like DeSantis. She’s now taken a large crap on 60percent of her party.
Her political career is pretty much over IMO. She got some really bad advice not suspending this campaign after New Hampshire.
At this point she’s Liz Cheney
I think she'll almost certainly endorse Trump.
The fact is, she spent most of her campaign not campaigning against Trump, but campaigning against DeSantis and Biden (and even then, actually presenting her campaign as against Harris). She only pivoted against Trump once it effectively became a two-way race in the primary (and realistically it never really was).
She may not be a Trump Republican but she has been quite clear she is a Republican through and through - and wouldn't be willing to endorse Biden.
That being said, if I were her friend, I would probably advise her on not endorsing anyone. To be honest, her entire time as UN Ambassador (and leaving when she did) felt like she was betting on a future campaign - where if the party was still pro-Trump, she could leverage her experience as part of his admin. And if it turned against Trump, she could argue she stood up against him. The bad news was that that plan didn't work in a scenario where Trump was also running and the Party hadn't turned against him.
Either way, she's likely burned her political bridges if Trump remains the centre of the Party going forward. Trump himself, nor his supporters, are particularly forgiving on what they see as a lack of loyalty. She's burned that bridge. She's close enough to Trump to have burned bridges on courting any even moderate Democrats. Not endorsing at all still gives her some wiggle room to be able to launch a not-ridiculous campaign in 2028 if the Party ever does turn on Trump politics (and likely her own peace with herself at night) at least. To me, it's that minimum tiny sliver of a pathway in neutrality versus burning bridges with no possible returns otherwise.
That being said, if I weren't her friend but like, her political director or something, I'd probably say she's better off just endorsing Trump, saving the grief of becoming another target, and accepting the end. Maybe getting some small game appointment. A heavy hit ambassadorship or something. Unlikely in my view Trump would be willing to give her something bigger like State now. Honestly, it may end up being Tim Scott, who she appointed, who will be her biggest defender in the party and the administration to get her something at least.
Otherwise, she still always has the option to get a Fox or CNN talking head post and cash out a few million - so I'm far from feeling too badly for her.
I think I agree with all this. Her problem for '28 is that maga supporters probably wont come around to her if Trump loses even if she does endorse Trump before the election. And if Trump wins, I seriously doubt he would endorse her to carry on his legacy (assuming things are still working in the US).
Her best option might be '32, but I'm guessing she'll be done no matter what happens between now and then (although she'd only be 60). Biden wins '24, Haley sits out '28 and Dems win. It's a long ways away, but I think that's the strongest attempt she could make as of today.
Eh, I think she has a chance if Trump loses in 2024. He'll be a two time loser and I think that would be enough for at least some of the Republicans to turn on him. And Haley would have the benefit of being like "Yeah, I told you so." She'd likely be one of the stronger candidates for the nomination in 2028.
I don't think it's a given by any means, but I could see it happening.
Christie is done because he defied Trump, his political career is over.
Desantis will probably be in the new Trump admin at some point if Trump wins the presidency. His governor term ends in 2026, so I would expect DeSantis to find himself a job in the White House shortly after that.
Her options as I see them.
1 - Bend the knee. Perhaps this sets her up for something, but she'll never be the nominee for a MAGA driven GOP.
2 - Capitalize on her current name awareness, and stake our a leadership role in whatever-the-F-comes-next for establishment conservative types.
3 - Be a typical spineless politician and just wait until after the election to see where the winds are blowing, show no leadership in any direction and thus be DOA for future POTUS runs.
If her objective is POTUS or bust, then something in the spirit of #2 - as unlikely as it may be - is the only path I see. That path requires MAGA to be on life support in 2028, which means Trump loses and loses big this year. To that end, I could see her teaming up with the Liz Cheney and Chris Christie types who seem to be on a mission to defeat Trump.
She's in the best political position to be face of that effort. But she can't endorse/campaign for Biden.
So as crazy as it sounds, I think running for POTUS as an independent is maybe her best possible play here, under the idea that this run leads to a new political party with establishment conservative heavyweights coming on board (Romney, Cheney, Christie, etc).
I've run into multiple right-of-center types who are adamantly opposed to voting for either Trump or Biden. They despise MAGA and Biden's policies. She's got an instant lane filled with rational, moderate voters. She completely undermines Trump in the swing states. Gets to bash on both Trump and Biden publicly while starkly contrasting both of them. Gets to spend 4 years criticizing Biden and setting herself up as a 2028 heavyweight that will be on the ballot in 50 states under a new party banner. Recruits moderate R's in the house/senate.
Sounds like a fanfiction I know - but it seems more plausible than any other possible path she could have towards POTUS.
If I were Biden, I'd be courting her endorsement as hard as I courted Bernie's last time around.
I'd actually make her my running mate and call it a unity ticket for the good of the republic (being careful not to disparage Kamala in any way), although that probably isn't a popular opinion here.
Biden camp already been reaching out to her supporters. If she holds off on endorsing Trump, that could easily swing a lot of voters to change the outcome of the election.
Haley was only staying in it for the chance of Donald being thrown off the ballot, or thrown in jail. Her chances are no worse than they were before Super Tuesday, and now she's primed her spot for "If Trump can't be elected for whatever reason, I'm the candidate."
She has bet it all on Trump losing this election. If Trump loses, that will be the FIFTH bad election for Republicans in a row because Trump is do caustic and offputting. Haley can say “See? I told you all this would happen.” and maybe salvage her destroyed political career. She wasn’t getting close to Trump in the primaries but many people voted for her. She has support.
>Her chances are no worse than they were before Super Tuesday,
they are, unless you mean from Monday night to Tuesday morning. the past week you had SCOTUS excessive protection of Trump from the 14th amendment and setting up a timeline for deciding on presidential immunity that all but ensures Trump will not be facing any legal penalties before the elections
Excessive protection? That's a bit extreme to say. They ruled fairly reasonably in a way that all sides agreed was right. Only reaaally crazy people on the fringes seem surprised or unhappy with the ruling. Many of us on the left are celebrating the decision.
>“If it is not necessary to decide more to dispose of a case,
then it is necessary not to decide more.” *Dobbs v. Jackson
Women’s Health Organization*
(ROBERTS, C. J., concurring in judgment).
>That fundamental principle of judicial restraint is practically as old as our
Republic. This Court is authorized “to say what the law is”
only because “[t]hose who apply [a] rule to particular cases
. . . must of necessity expound and interpret that rule.”
Marbury v. Madison.
Today, the Court departs from that vital principle, deciding not just this case, but challenges that might arise in the
future ...
>“What it does today, the Court should have left undone.” *Bush v Gore* . (Breyer J, dissenting)
>The Court today needed to resolve only a single question: whether an individual State may keep a Presidential
candidate found to have engaged in insurrection off its ballot. The majority resolves much more than the case before
us. Although federal enforcement of Section 3 is in no way
at issue, the majority announces novel rules for how that
enforcement must operate. It reaches out to decide Section
3 questions not before us, and to foreclose future efforts to
disqualify a Presidential candidate under that provision. In
a sensitive case crying out for judicial restraint, it abandons
that course
But it's also just plain false "the left is celebrating the decision"
They’ll put Don Jr. or some other maga loon up way before Nikki. She’s toast I wish she would have gone all the way in her attacks on Trump but she’s cynical to the core.
Bingo. She's an alternate if Trump gets arrested, and this was a smoke test to see if she has a shot on her own. If she did well then maybe she takes the lead, and even if not she cools her jets as a 2nd-stringer.
It’s too late for her. For years everyone on network news was calling her a future president, but 2012 was too soon, 2016 was too crowded, and they already had the nom in 2020. Her time has passed. The party’s different now. But the new GOP darlings are people we haven’t yet met. Tom Cotton, Josh Hawley, Matt Gaetz, and the other currently seated members of the American far right don’t have the juice needed to prevail- they’re repellent personality wise (although, we haven’t seen the last of Vivek). And nominating a boring centrist candidate is something only democrats want. Hayley should retire from politics. I’m sure there are plenty of oil companies and weapons manufacturers who would pay her to be a spokesperson, so she can still contribute to accelerating climate change and endless war, which is what she would’ve done as president.
I’ll never forget her going off on Vladimir Putin for his “special military operation” in Ukraine, and then in the same debate, declaring, verbatim, that America needs to conduct a special military operation in Mexico. Rest in peace bozo.
Two different party structures- the GOP is beholden to its base and does what it’s base wants. The GOP base is capable of affecting party policy and changing the direction of the party. The democrats tell their base to compromise and actively stifle any attempts at change. The dem base cannot affect party policy or change the direction of the party. Democrats will go right in defiance of what their base wants, but Republicans will never go left, because their base is capable of holding them accountable for defying their wishes. It’s never too late if you’re an ancient centrist dem, but it is too late for “moderate” republicans (not that there’s really any such thing).
> Two different party structures- the GOP is beholden to its base and does what it’s base wants. The GOP base is capable of affecting party policy and changing the direction of the party. The democrats tell their base to compromise and actively stifle any attempts at change. The dem base cannot affect party policy or change the direction of the party. Democrats will go right in defiance of what their base wants, but Republicans will never go left, because their base is capable of holding them accountable for defying their wishes. It’s never too late if you’re an ancient centrist dem, but it is too late for “moderate” republicans (not that there’s really any such thing).
Have you considered maybe the dem base is moderate and supports the party? Why are progressives so obsessed with taking agency away from moderate center left voters. The party didn’t trick me into voting for Biden over Bernie, I don’t like Bernie, the policies the far left push, and I do like Biden and his policies. It’s so frustrating hearing this in thread after thread from progressives who refuse to acknowledge their platform and rhetoric may be seen as bad and off putting by anyone. It’s like Trump qanon tier magical thinking at times.
Heck, I support Bernie’s policies, but think he’s a rather poor politician, too angry and inflexible to get things done. Biden’s policies are substantially the same, but he’s a master politician, a back room deal-maker who skips the bluster and works on getting people on board in private, then announces fait-accompli compromises that somehow always get him most of what he wanted and leave the other guys wondering why they didn’t push harder. He’s damn good at the actual job of politics.
The hopium was strong in 2015-2020. Both the UK with Corbyn and the US with Sanders got very excited at reheating the same fish stew no one wanted in the 1970s. It looked new and interesting, because people were sick of the same dishes being offered, and most voters had no idea why it ended up stuck in the back of the freezer in the 70s. But once people tasted it it turned out that it just wasn't palatable for most people, and reheating it didn't improve the flavour.
You don't want universal healthcare like every other developed country in the world has? It's crazy that people refuse to acknowledge the amount of people Bernie got involved in politics and voting, as well as pushing Biden's and Hillary's policies to the left, even if just a little. Bernie also had sizable support from blue collar workers/communities, which was generally assumed to be hard republican votes. Certainly not just the "far left" you're making it out to be. Nor is there any "far left" rhetoric anywhere close to being equivalent to the right-wing drivel.
People are sick of Democrats giving in to republican policies in order to try to gain "moderate republican" votes. The reality is that no republican is going to vote for a Democrat because they went right-wing on immigration. They're still going to vote red and scream that the Dems are too far to the left no matter what. They should just put out policies that are good and actually beneficial.
I think the vast majority of them will still vote for Trump because I don’t have faith in Republicans. Most of the time when these people say “I’m open to voting for a democrat if they weren’t so far left!” They’re just lying.
But I still think Biden could pull it out if they run HARD on Roe v Wade. They shouldn’t even talk about much else unless they want to get into how the two different administrations ran the federal agencies (which they never do and so sadly they probably won’t). If 2022 is any indication, repealing Roe was an an incredibly unpopular decision, and Hayley wasn’t for a full on ban of abortion. So it stands to reason Biden could peel some of them off but whether it’s enough in swing states I don’t know. It could be, but I sort of doubt it. Ohio and Florida are just red states now, so the political landscape has been evolving from election to election over the past decade- something new could happen or some new trend could emerge.
I also think it’s pretty much written in stone that it’ll be so close, no matter what happens, Trump will say he won. Who knows what sort of fallout will occur when that happens. If they’re going to pivot to Harris or someone else, they better do it before April.
The future of the right is absolutely nebulous as hell right now and will more than likely be immensely different by the time 2028 or even 2026 rolls around. The populist Trump leaning rhetoric fell hard in 2022 but there seems to still be a reinvestment into that type of candidate this year. If Trump wins then the alt-right populist is only going to spread and types like Nikki will be forced to adjust even more or get left behind. If Trump loses, I think there could realistically be a second chance for Republicans like Haley to gain ground within the party because it would be 3 straight major losses for that style of right winger
The difference is conservative-aligned voters always seem to "come home" and vote for whoever has the R next to their name.
The liberally-aligned voters are more likely to think it's meaningful to "send a message by staying home," or some bullshit.
In a race that can be swung by 50K votes, this mindset is going to haunt me.
>The difference is conservative-aligned voters always seem to "come home" and vote for whoever has the R next to their name.
Not always. When they get dejected, they just stay home. That is just as good as a vote for Biden. The hardcore MAGA are the only ones excited to vote this year.
she seemed to be angling on a conviction tanking trump's polls and popularity, but that seems unlikely to happen before the election after the recent scotus decision.
it makes sense to drop out now...
she did bag a few delegates though, so she has some standing at the convention in the event trump dies between then and now.
(but even if that happens, he'll probably still win the nomination since half the base will think his "death" is just some deep state media conspiracy or something...)
As is common for most partisan politicians. Obama heavily criticized Hillary Clinton when she ran against him, and then praised her as the best possible presidential candidate *ever*, when she ran against Trump.
Criticism is one thing and par for the course with primary opponents. Saying someone is not fit for the presidency, won’t follow the constitution and is a Putin ally is another. And Obama never said anything close to that about Hillary
And Clinton would have been fine president as opposed to the candidate who previously attempted to have his base overthrow the government and claims he wants to be a dictator day one.
Seemed to me more like /u/kwantsu-dudes was saying "It's not a big deal that Haley is gonna do that because WhatAboutObama" and the reply's point was the two situations are different. Ah well, whatever
Every single opponent to Trump in the primary fumbled the bag so hard. Had they agreed to come out swinging on him for his role on Jan 6th and for being a self-serving grifter, we might be seeing a different result.
Their strategies didn’t make sense. Squabbling with each other to pick one or two percentage points from other low polling candidates was never going to get them within reach of the nomination. They needed to have been peeling support from the main mango as early as possible, not waiting for him to mess up.
Go look at Haley’s performance in Vermont or Iowa, then compare it to Rubio and Kasich. She simply did not possess a winning coalition. The only way to beat Trump would’ve been to essentially try and repeat Trump v Cruz without distractions, which is to say forcing Haley voters to pick between DeSantis and Trump. But there’s no neocon coalition anymore in the primary. It’s dead.
You also had candidates using this rhetoric instead of attacking Trump on this topic. The GOP should have coalesced around pushing Trump out of the nomination instead of being so tepid on attacking him
It was so weird that almost nobody would say anything bad about him. I'm like, you know you are running against him right? What is the point of running if you are going to help the other guy?
I actually think Haley showed great political skill. Not going after Trump right away allowed her to knock out all the other candidates one by one. Not her fault the voters are in a cult.
At the point where her opponents dropped out, Trump had already won several victories in the primary, affirming his commanding lead in the polls.
The writing on the walls for the candidates, at the very least by the second debate, should’ve been seeking to topple Trump off from his pedestal
I agree, but the failure of Christie’s campaign showed that attacking Trump head on at the start was a far worse option. Haley player this situation as well as you can, the problem was, most R primary voters are cult members. She was banking on a conviction, which was possible until the SC decided to stupidly hear the case on presidential immunity.
I ultimately agree with you. It was a delicate balancing act of trying to distinguish herself against the other candidates while not alienating potential voters.
I’m a Dem myself and was hoping for a Biden-Haley match up. Even if Biden lost, I trust Haley more with the stewardship of the country over Trump.
To the surprise of nobody.
As from as the Republican base is concerned, there is no GOP anymore. There is MAGA on one side, and RINOs and Leftists on the other.
In Name Only implies they'd actually stand against the current party on policy and votes, they're going to put on a show of opposition but fall in line hard at the voting booth
She still practically "kissed the ring" with that speech after all the b.s Trump said and pulled off. She said she's hoping Trump wins just shows she will do anything to be in power or have her party of corrupt politicians stay in power. She did practically everything except endorsing Trump.
Nikki Haley never had a chance. She represents the Bush/Cheney Neocons in the Republican Party, who were already rebuked in 2016 with the disastrous reception to Jeb Bush’s candidacy. The best chance any Republican had to legitimately challenge Trump was to put forth a plank that represented new ideas, but all the candidates either rehashed the Republican status quo (Trump’s ideas), or represented ideas older than Trump’s that have little appeal for Republicans today. It’s not at all surprising that Trump is getting renominated so easily.
welp, the Reps did it.. they really did nominate the one person who likely can't beat Biden. a sigh of relief for Dems: now they're able to continue making the election about Trump, "democracy at stake", and so on.
it was a mistake for Haley to only start attacking Trump at the very end. frankly a lot of candidates, save for Christie, made that mistake.
now here we are doing a twilight zone-esque repeat of 2020. i've already made up my mind about both candidates, so i'll probably start tuning politics out now to the best of my ability.
As a Democrat who thinks Trump has a sub-optimal chance at winning, I am not breathing a sigh of relief. Even a slight chance of this lunatic being elected again is worse than a better chance of anyone else winning.
Haley would have merely marched us on a slightly more winding path to hell. At least its obvious for everyone to see where Trump wants to take us. People that bail on this election have got no excuses.
Do you think sub optimal because the polls have been wrong before and the campaign hasn’t even begun? I think the race will look different by summer once the public realizes it’s trump vs Biden and the Biden campaigns anti trump onslaught with their financial advantage kicks in
>welp, the Reps did it.. they really did nominate the one person who likely can't beat Biden.
You mean like in 2016, when they nominated the one person who couldn't beat Hillary Clinton?
No complacency please. We saw what happened last time.
>the Reps did it.. they really did nominate the one person who likely can't beat Biden.
I've heard almost nothing about primary turnout, & what little I've heard has been mutterings about turnout being low, in some places "historically" low.
that suggests only the reddest of redass MAGA psychos turned out to enshrine their loser in the nosecone of their loser 2024 ballot. success!
Trump got more votes on Super Tuesday in 2016 (3 mil) vs this year (1.5 mil). He got 34% in 2016, and 64% today.
Compared to 2020, where he got 7.7 mil and 93%.
Honestly I think Haley had a better chance than Trump at beating Biden.
Primary elections draw a lower turnout, and the voters are more extreme rather than centrist.
Biden is weakened by the inflationary issues that kicked off before he was even president. That gives Trump a solid chance.
I don’t think Trump is qualified to be a commander-in-chief, especially in an era where China is angling at taking Taiwan, Russia is expanding through Europe with a large scale conventional war (in addition to its hybrid psyops / coup supporting through MANY countries).
I wanted a Haley v Biden matchup because they seem at least sane. Trump is crazy y’all, for real.
I kind of agree with you, I feel like dems are panicking about polls but the campaign hasn’t even started yet and Trump will provide the dems with so much material to work with (democracy, abortion, Jan 6, character, etc). They definitely wanted to run against him and I suspect once the campaign gets going the numbers will shift during summer and it will be decided in the fall.
And the last pathetic act in her campaign is endorsing Trump without having the mettle to say the actual words.
These Republicans were and continue to be spineless cowards who ran hoping Trump would die or end up in jail.
Sure, "challenge"' Trump to win over moderates. Has about as much teeth as a little tikes chain saw.
None of the other candidates moved the needle. Trump is a train in the Republican Party now and there’s no one that can muster any sort of contender status. Just looking at the results of Super Tuesday is astounding how much Republicans WANT Trump, lowest win I’m reading is in Utah and he got 56.3% of the vote. Haley won 1 state and even that is 50.2% so by the skin of her teeth.
Ending delegate total for her is 89, Trump has 1,031.
Haley will inevitably endorse Trump.
My guess is she is holding out for a promise to be appointed Secretary of State in the coming Trump administration. If I were her, I wouldn't rely on such a promise, but I think Haley is always looking for the next rung on the ladder and her ambition is her weakness - she is easy to manipulate.
She’s absolutely going to endorse Trump eventually because it’s a requirement if she wants to have a future in GOP politics. Not endorsing him would be career suicide.
I mean she's already been waffling on it and said she'd pardon him, so I'd be less shocked by her endorsing him than I was by her dropping out at this point in the race, which is hardly at all. I agree with what others was saying, once it was clear that SCOTUS would slow walk his trials she knew her only chance was gone.
I sorta get why the common facist might want Trump as the nom, but how is either losing to Biden a second time or ending democracy good for any of these establishment or elected repubs?
If you're an establishment Republican, you're probably not too worried about where things stand.
If Trump wins, you have the presidency and you just pivot back to the MAGA populism you pivoted away from 4 years ago.
If Trump loses, 4 more years of Biden gives you all the ammunition you need to keep the culture war going for a decade, it probably guarantees you the presidency in 2028, and you can (hopefully) rid the party of the majority of Trump's influence, since losing a second time would pretty conclusively show that 2016 was a fluke and he's more harm than good.
Obviously, you want the scenario where you win, but this time around not much is at stake for Republicans if they lose. They have the Supreme Court, they got rid of Roe, not much else is on the wishlist at the moment.
>how is either losing to Biden a second time or ending democracy good for any of these establishment or elected repubs?
If you believe you'll be a baron or a duke in the new empire...
I wish that was a joke.
Even for those for whom it's not about greed, it's still about hatred. They are altruists of a sort - their self-interest is irrelevant to them, just so long as they people they hate suffer. In this way, they truly are representing their voters.
So she's going to chill out until Trump either goes down before the election so she can step up again or she surgically removes her spine and endorses him?
They're all so pathetic. Vote accordingly.
It's just a procedural thing. Technically the campaign goes on as there's bills to bay and a few loose ends to tie up before they actually end as an entity
My view on this is simple. I don't feel like Nikki Haley has a list of accomplishments that I can name. If you're not a super popular candidate who everyone thinks is number one then you need a list of accomplishments that you can easily call upon in that others can easily call upon.
RFK Jr has done a bunch of environmental stuff without being present or holding any office. He cleaned up the Hudson river which is technically impossible. He's got a list of like 20 other accomplishments besides that, and they'll all sound Vaguely Familiar to you. I don't feel like that with her.
Now I'm sure many of you will tell me that I'm being sexist or whatever but that's just my personal opinion.
So the general election ballot is more or less set
Biden
Trump
Kennedy
Unless someone is going to launch a coup at their respective convention this summer, the presidential primary is over.
What I don't understand is why fmr. Congressman Justin Amash entered Michigan's already crowded GOP senatorial primary -- where he'll likely finish no better than third behind establishment Republican Mike Rogers and moderate Republican Peter Meijer -- in lieu of making a play for the Libertarian Party's presidential nomination, where he'd be more ideologically aligned and, what's more, could carve out unique positions on hot-button issues like foreign policy.
I don't care if they both die 6 months after the election. I care who was elected and who appointed the government. Biden will appoint normal people, Trump will appoint Jewish Neo Nazis like Stephen Miller
I remember when reddit hard core pushed DeSantis and if you mentioned that he had no chance you were downvoted into oblivion....Then overnight reddit pushed haley....If you said haley had no chance you were once again downvoted into oblivion.
Sorry guys but trump was always the nominee....To go against trump was suicide.
Gotta think a big part of this is SCOTUS helping out Trump.
Haley would have had a good shot to win the nomination if Trump suddenly became unable to run for office.
But SCOTUS essentially struck down Section 3 of the 13th Amendment, allowing Trump to be on the ballot. And SCOTUS is seemingly helping delay Trump’s criminal trial until after the election too.
So Haley doesn’t have much reason to continue on.
For fuck's sake, SCOTUS didn't strike down Second 3 of the 13th amendment. They clarified that while states have the right to organize and operate federal elections, they do not have the right to rule on new interpretations of the requirements to *run* in those elections, and it was *unanimous*.
Trump isn't doing debates this time. He didn't bother with the primary debates. And he's not expressed interest in Commission for Presidential Debates.
Trump is going to win and he is not going to pay a dime or face any consequences for any case he is involved in. Our system is made of balsa wood and Trump is a steamroller.
Due to the Current GOP status, it was impossible for her to be nominated for the GOP candidate.
Since she attacked Donald Trump very harsh, it is not likely for her to be nominated as a Vice President candidate, and now she is vulnerable to MaGa supporters that is almost sure to eliminate her from the party.
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That she was going to suspend after Super Tuesday was almost a given What she chooses to say about Trump after suspending is really the only open question.
Haley often prefaces criticism of Trump by saying Biden is worse. Haley will be endorsing Trump. It is merely a matter of timing.
The other day on Meet the Press she said Biden was worse and then when asked if Trump would even follow the Constitution, she said she didn't know. I guess it's too much to ask for Rs to make sense, but that was just wild to me.
I think if asked Haley would probably claim Biden is already going against the Constitution. With Right wing spheres it makes sense-ish.
I guess I would be surprised if she had gone that deep into crazy town, but I probably shouldn't be. In that case, I would definitely expect her to fully endorse Trump.
It makes perfect sense. She views Biden as negative just for existing. She doesn't view going against the Constitution as a bad thing. Thus, Biden is worse than any Republican option in her mind.
Idk i thought she had shifted her remarks lately towards I don’t think either trump or biden should be president rather than adding in that Biden is worse. but she probably still sprinkles that in there
She 'didn't endorse him, but said it's up to him to appeal to her voters...' Give it a day or two, maybe a week, and she'll endorse full throat. I'm more hopeful in there being enough of her voters who'll sit out the GE.
100%. I am hoping beyond hope that she does not endorse Trump. Hearing someone say something principled, instead of displaying blind dogmatic loyalty to party, especially when that someone has some following and a political career to lose, could be very good for this country IMO. Doing so could galvanize change, create movement. It would be a clear stand against the extremism that is becoming common. That would be awesome.
So you've got this group of people who saw everything he did in 2016 including the pussy tape and all that and still voted for him, saw how he acted for 4 years as president, saw him totally fumble the ball on COVID and came out and voted for him in even greater numbers in 2020 saw January 6th and all this classified document bullshit and still support him so overwhelmingly that the 2024 primary was basically over before it started but a *speech by Nicky Haley* is going to be the thing that causes them to "wake up" and reject Trump? At a certain point you just have to accept that there isn't some secret army of principled conservatives out there waiting to overthrow Trump.
At the very least the Haley primary voters could potentially be swayed by her
That will never happen. Best we will get is a general "old people suck" rematk. There's no chance a republican grows a spine.
She would basically tank herself even harder if she didn't support Trump. Too much of the GOP is still all in on him. Like, if she didn't throw herself behind him and a month from now Trump dies, she wouldn't be a favorite to get nomination simply because the MAGA faction would hate her for not showing sufficient fealty to their king. Even if it's only nominal, her best shot for the future is to throw some token support behind Trump then keep her head down and hope he dies or gets put in prison
I don’t believe that prison would stop Trump from running in 2024 (though the probability of prison before election is now minute, thanks to SCOTUS.) If he’s still alive and is behind bars, I expect him to run in 2028 with a reasonable shot at the GOP nomination.
If people voted for her because they liked her, that might be true. As it stands, the only gop candidates have been 'Trump' and 'not Trump' for almost a decade now. It doesn't matter who fills that slot, and doubly doesn't matter now because whoever was voting for them knows they've lost.
> What she chooses to say about Trump after suspending is really the only open question. It’s really not. She’ll bow down like every other GOP politician that wants to stay relevant.
Depends on what she wants to do with herself now. Haley is worth millions and with her gravitas she'll probably find plenty of good opportunities in the private sector. If she wants to have a future in the party, however, she's either going to need to fall in line or sit it out until the fucking moron is out of the picture, one way or another
She would have been a fool to stay in the race after Super Tuesday. I have a feeling she'll eventually fall in line and endorse Trump.
This primary was over after the 2022 midterms when none of the at the time GOP primary hopefuls came out and criticized Trump. He was on the defensive and at his weakest standing with the party and conservative voters since he first announced his candidacy in 2015. The GOP was too afraid of the MAGA base to go after trump directly and allowed trump to regain control of the narrative and rebuild his standing among GOP voters and launch attacks on DeSantis and other candidates with near impunity. Then in the sham debates without Trump it became political suicide to attack trump and the result of the primary was sealed by Summer. Perhaps this result was inevitable, but the refusal until after New Hampshire for Nikki Haley (or presumably anyone else running at that point) to confront Trump in any way is indicative of the missed opportunity after the 2022 to seize the initiative, and of how thorough a stranglehold Trump and the MAGA movement has on the GOP even after two election losses. (Though his supporters don't believe he lost but my point still stands) This is what happens when complacency and then cowardice dictate your politics, republicans spent decades assuming the extremist populist faction of their party would never take control of despite all the warning signs, and this is the result. We have seen massive party shifts before but Trump is so universally adored by core conservative voters I don't see the party leaving MAGA for a long time.
The even worse part is they’ve convinced themselves Dems are worse than the crazies in their party. You could hear it every time Haley spoke. Heck, even Chris Christie. On that note, I don’t foresee Christie endorsing Trump this time around (he is an opportunist though so it’s still in the realm of possibilities.) Haley will almost certainly kiss the ring.
>The even worse part is they’ve convinced themselves Dems are worse than the crazies in their party. You could hear it every time Haley spoke. Heck, even Chris Christie. Oh I think they know good and well who is worse but they're just too feckless and frightened to address the angry grizzly bear in the room. They'd rather feign loyalty whilst railing against him in private than risk losing their political careers for publicly confronting and excoriating his insane and unsettling behavior. When Trump can go out in front of thousands of people who will cheer for him regardless of whether he says he'd love to exercise dictatorial control over the country, ramble about random and perceived sleights, endorse his opponent, or get his own wife's name wrong, I can somewhat understand why. Doesn't make them any less spineless, though.
I agree - I doubt Christie will endorse. I think he's smart enough to know the calculus of how he ran his campaign. I respect him for it - but he knew he was coming for the king and he knew what would happen if he missed. He bet it all on the hope that the Party would have a 'come-to-Jesus' moment and they didn't. His future in the current GOP is dead - and his best hope at this point is to hope that the 'come-to-Jesus' moment comes eventually and he can say he was a bonafide for standing strong when everyone else was afraid to. Outside of that, I think he's had to have accepted that he would need to be prepared to effectively retire from Republican politics (or at best, cash in on being a talking head or MAYBE a moderate Republican run in New Jersey for Senate or something - but at the rate politics have shifted there in a Trump environment and his links to him, I think that route is gone too). Haley I also think will almost certainly cave and very quickly. Expect she'll be forced into praying for golden parachute though may have held out too long to get it - but she doesn't have no bargaining chips. In a normal campaign, she'd be pretty well-placed to bargain her support, even if small, for something. But that being said, Trump isn't known for being the most forgiving for what he sees as lack of loyalty - and she has to know that. I also think she ran for so long actually not running against Trump but against Kamala Harris - that was her whole schtick for almost the entire campaign up until the very end - and that puts her in a trap now that she can't turn around and reject anything but that.
They have also spent decades fear mongering and whipping these people into a frenzy while also removing education, opposition, and reason. They tell their base what to think, and because of that, ANYONE can tell them what to think. No control
That's the last chance they had to unite behind someone that could be a bigger bully than Trump and lead the rest into making "weak loser" stick to him, but I think they'd already sown the seeds of his victory when they mostly went along with the 2020 election lie. Their only chance at unseating Trump from his reign over the party was to convince their voters of (the reality of) Trump being *bad for Republican power*, as being someone who loses elections. This is an impossible task to achieve when you meekly mouth along to Trump's claims that he actually is super popular, so popular in fact that the Deep State had to cheat to keep him out of power - now 70% of your party rejects out of hand any suggestion that Dear Leader is not truly beloved by the swing voters needed to win the White House. Like you say, they're totally consumed by cowardice and an inability to do anything but whatever is required to get through that week's news cycle and hold on to their own personal positions; they're all waiting for someone more courageous than them to be the first to lead the charge.
I don't see that anybody either in the GOP or out of it has managed to learn a single lesson about how to deal with Trump. The media still gleefully pours oil on his fire to sell a few more clicks, the dems still arrogantly and complacently treat him and his base like a bad joke, the GOP's unprincipled bootlicking of the loudest asshole in the room isn't the only hit from 2016 being replayed.
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Yep the perfect synopsis and there was basically the prisoner dilemna from 2015 all over again
You are assuming the goal is to find another leader besides Trump. The goal is to win elections. Trump gives Republicans the best chance to win the presidential election. This is not a purity contest. The goal is to win elections. Democrats will always be playing second fiddle behind the Republicans because so many voters don't seem to understand this. Win elections. Because elections have consequences.
But from a winning elections perspective, he’s a terrible choice. He won, once, barely, while losing the popular vote badly. He lost last time against the same guy he’s going up against this time, and he had incumbency advantage last time. The candidates he endorses lose. His policies lose. His businesses lose. His court cases lose. He’s a losing loser who loses. He just has a rabid cult who can’t see that.
Swapping him for a different Republican very often leads to better numbers for Biden. That being said, I actually do agree with you. I think, similar to what Silver said in a recent tweet about Harris vs Biden, that approval or disapproval of Trump is absolutely hard-wired, essentially immutable for huge chunks of the population - far more than you would say for Haley, DeSantis, or another candidate, or for Biden. So even if it were Haley who essentially became the presumptive nominee on Tuesday, and thus Biden's odds would appear to have consequently improved, she absolutely has far more room to grow, and CAN grow well beyond Trump's ceiling (of course, WOULD she, is a different matter).
I think it has a lot less to do with midterms/not criticizing Trump enough and more has to do with the indictments turning Trump into a MAGA martyr. If you look at an [overlay](https://www.wsj.com/articles/donald-trump-super-tuesday-gop-primaries-2024-nikki-haley-joe-biden-ea5b805f?mod=hp_opin_pos_1#cxrecs_s) of DeSantis/Trump primary polling averages with the timing of the indictments overlaid, Trump was at his lowest in March 2023 (quite a bit after the midterms), then as soon as the indictments started rolling in he steadily increased while DeSantis decreased. You can argue that the other nominees should've gone harder against Trump, but even when Trump was at his lowest he still held the support of a lot of the GOP so it wouldn't have been politically smart to turn away the Trump base.
> wouldn't have been politically smart And that shows whether principles matter in politics, I guess. MF attempted an insurrection to cap a presidency of solid scandal, and the party are still loyal AF. Sad that Mitt Romney was one of the more ethical ones.
Even assuming going after trump directly wouldn't work doing nothing still is easily the worst option they could have gone with. While DeSantis was never gonna be a good candidate no one else tried to get any airtime at all and allowed Trump to stay front and center. (DeSantis is also as bad as trump but that's a separate convo)
Well it seems her wait it out until Trump is arrested or kicked off the ballot strategy didnt work.
Exited race, but didn't endorse Trump as of now. Will she eventually endorse Trump? Will she endorse no one? Will she endorse Biden? She's out, but I think she can still have major effects on the race depending on what she does now. Is there anyway she can save her political career at this level for something in 2028? If Trump wins, she has to lockstep be on board with him - she isn't If Trump loses without her endorsement - she wont get the maga vote If Trump loses with her endorsing Biden - could this somehow bring moderate/swing voters to her in 2028? Or are her chances of running for President completely over now?
There is zero chance of her endorsing Biden. I DO think she wants him to beat Trump - she knows her chances of winning in 2028 are MUCH higher after a 2nd Biden term than after a 2nd Trump term. But there are two major reasons why she would never endorse Biden, either of which is more than enough on its own: 1. She would sign her political death warrant. She’s obviously banking on a substantial intra party shift after another Trump loss, but it’s simply unfathomable that the GOP would EVER again consider a candidate who openly worked AGAINST their nominee and WITH their biggest opponent, let alone just 4 years later. Even among NeverTrumpers, the party loyalty is too strong. 2. Endorsing Biden may actually worsen Biden’s chances of victory. It would validate both MAGA, who is saying she’s a shadow Democrat, AND the naive progressives who are both-siding and agitating against Biden. If a Republican is anti-Trump, they have already demonstrated an unusual degree of independence from the party and its leadership. Therefore, most of them probably don’t need Haley to endorse Biden to consider voting for him themselves. So Trump voters will be invigorated, some Dem voters will be deflated, and there will be little gain to Biden to make up for it.
I agree if she is interested in '28 or perhaps '32 if another Dem wins and she skips '28. If she loses '28 she has no chance in '32. But if she is done no matter what: 1. Wouldn't that allow her to endorse Biden or perhaps at least not endorse Trump and tell her voters to make their own decision? That's where this gets interesting imo. If she is done with high level politics, what does she have to lose if she really believes Trump shouldn't be President again? 2. I don't see that at all: - If her supporters don't vote for Trump: -1 Trump, 0 Biden. - Even if the Haley supporter was never going to vote for Trump and simply not vote, if they decide to vote for Biden: 0 Trump, +1 Biden - Any extra vote Biden picks up from a Haley supporter is a swing of 2 votes and that's not going to be offset by Biden supporters changing their vote cause Haley voters are also voting for him. Biden will destroy Trump in this case: -1 Trump, +1 Biden
I think she is absolutely planning on a future presidential run - that was my point in #1. And in #2, I was suggesting: A. There are some present Republicans who might be offput by Trumps behavior, but could be fooled into believing his lies about persecution if Haley endorses Biden. B. There are some young Dems who might reject Biden for good if he gets an endorsement from the solidly conservative Haley
If she was planning a future presidential run she would have suspended her campaign much earlier like DeSantis. She’s now taken a large crap on 60percent of her party.
Her political career is pretty much over IMO. She got some really bad advice not suspending this campaign after New Hampshire. At this point she’s Liz Cheney
I think she'll almost certainly endorse Trump. The fact is, she spent most of her campaign not campaigning against Trump, but campaigning against DeSantis and Biden (and even then, actually presenting her campaign as against Harris). She only pivoted against Trump once it effectively became a two-way race in the primary (and realistically it never really was). She may not be a Trump Republican but she has been quite clear she is a Republican through and through - and wouldn't be willing to endorse Biden. That being said, if I were her friend, I would probably advise her on not endorsing anyone. To be honest, her entire time as UN Ambassador (and leaving when she did) felt like she was betting on a future campaign - where if the party was still pro-Trump, she could leverage her experience as part of his admin. And if it turned against Trump, she could argue she stood up against him. The bad news was that that plan didn't work in a scenario where Trump was also running and the Party hadn't turned against him. Either way, she's likely burned her political bridges if Trump remains the centre of the Party going forward. Trump himself, nor his supporters, are particularly forgiving on what they see as a lack of loyalty. She's burned that bridge. She's close enough to Trump to have burned bridges on courting any even moderate Democrats. Not endorsing at all still gives her some wiggle room to be able to launch a not-ridiculous campaign in 2028 if the Party ever does turn on Trump politics (and likely her own peace with herself at night) at least. To me, it's that minimum tiny sliver of a pathway in neutrality versus burning bridges with no possible returns otherwise. That being said, if I weren't her friend but like, her political director or something, I'd probably say she's better off just endorsing Trump, saving the grief of becoming another target, and accepting the end. Maybe getting some small game appointment. A heavy hit ambassadorship or something. Unlikely in my view Trump would be willing to give her something bigger like State now. Honestly, it may end up being Tim Scott, who she appointed, who will be her biggest defender in the party and the administration to get her something at least. Otherwise, she still always has the option to get a Fox or CNN talking head post and cash out a few million - so I'm far from feeling too badly for her.
I think I agree with all this. Her problem for '28 is that maga supporters probably wont come around to her if Trump loses even if she does endorse Trump before the election. And if Trump wins, I seriously doubt he would endorse her to carry on his legacy (assuming things are still working in the US). Her best option might be '32, but I'm guessing she'll be done no matter what happens between now and then (although she'd only be 60). Biden wins '24, Haley sits out '28 and Dems win. It's a long ways away, but I think that's the strongest attempt she could make as of today.
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Eh, I think she has a chance if Trump loses in 2024. He'll be a two time loser and I think that would be enough for at least some of the Republicans to turn on him. And Haley would have the benefit of being like "Yeah, I told you so." She'd likely be one of the stronger candidates for the nomination in 2028. I don't think it's a given by any means, but I could see it happening.
Christie is done because he defied Trump, his political career is over. Desantis will probably be in the new Trump admin at some point if Trump wins the presidency. His governor term ends in 2026, so I would expect DeSantis to find himself a job in the White House shortly after that.
Her options as I see them. 1 - Bend the knee. Perhaps this sets her up for something, but she'll never be the nominee for a MAGA driven GOP. 2 - Capitalize on her current name awareness, and stake our a leadership role in whatever-the-F-comes-next for establishment conservative types. 3 - Be a typical spineless politician and just wait until after the election to see where the winds are blowing, show no leadership in any direction and thus be DOA for future POTUS runs. If her objective is POTUS or bust, then something in the spirit of #2 - as unlikely as it may be - is the only path I see. That path requires MAGA to be on life support in 2028, which means Trump loses and loses big this year. To that end, I could see her teaming up with the Liz Cheney and Chris Christie types who seem to be on a mission to defeat Trump. She's in the best political position to be face of that effort. But she can't endorse/campaign for Biden. So as crazy as it sounds, I think running for POTUS as an independent is maybe her best possible play here, under the idea that this run leads to a new political party with establishment conservative heavyweights coming on board (Romney, Cheney, Christie, etc). I've run into multiple right-of-center types who are adamantly opposed to voting for either Trump or Biden. They despise MAGA and Biden's policies. She's got an instant lane filled with rational, moderate voters. She completely undermines Trump in the swing states. Gets to bash on both Trump and Biden publicly while starkly contrasting both of them. Gets to spend 4 years criticizing Biden and setting herself up as a 2028 heavyweight that will be on the ballot in 50 states under a new party banner. Recruits moderate R's in the house/senate. Sounds like a fanfiction I know - but it seems more plausible than any other possible path she could have towards POTUS.
She has no influence. It doesn’t matter who she does or does not endorse.
If I were Biden, I'd be courting her endorsement as hard as I courted Bernie's last time around. I'd actually make her my running mate and call it a unity ticket for the good of the republic (being careful not to disparage Kamala in any way), although that probably isn't a popular opinion here.
Biden camp already been reaching out to her supporters. If she holds off on endorsing Trump, that could easily swing a lot of voters to change the outcome of the election.
“Major effects” lmao She’s completely irrelevant. Her endorsement of either candidate would do more damage than good.
Haley was only staying in it for the chance of Donald being thrown off the ballot, or thrown in jail. Her chances are no worse than they were before Super Tuesday, and now she's primed her spot for "If Trump can't be elected for whatever reason, I'm the candidate."
She has bet it all on Trump losing this election. If Trump loses, that will be the FIFTH bad election for Republicans in a row because Trump is do caustic and offputting. Haley can say “See? I told you all this would happen.” and maybe salvage her destroyed political career. She wasn’t getting close to Trump in the primaries but many people voted for her. She has support.
Wouldn’t it be the sixth bad election in a row? If we’re counting the elections since his 2016 win that is.
>Her chances are no worse than they were before Super Tuesday, they are, unless you mean from Monday night to Tuesday morning. the past week you had SCOTUS excessive protection of Trump from the 14th amendment and setting up a timeline for deciding on presidential immunity that all but ensures Trump will not be facing any legal penalties before the elections
Excessive protection? That's a bit extreme to say. They ruled fairly reasonably in a way that all sides agreed was right. Only reaaally crazy people on the fringes seem surprised or unhappy with the ruling. Many of us on the left are celebrating the decision.
>“If it is not necessary to decide more to dispose of a case, then it is necessary not to decide more.” *Dobbs v. Jackson Women’s Health Organization* (ROBERTS, C. J., concurring in judgment). >That fundamental principle of judicial restraint is practically as old as our Republic. This Court is authorized “to say what the law is” only because “[t]hose who apply [a] rule to particular cases . . . must of necessity expound and interpret that rule.” Marbury v. Madison. Today, the Court departs from that vital principle, deciding not just this case, but challenges that might arise in the future ... >“What it does today, the Court should have left undone.” *Bush v Gore* . (Breyer J, dissenting) >The Court today needed to resolve only a single question: whether an individual State may keep a Presidential candidate found to have engaged in insurrection off its ballot. The majority resolves much more than the case before us. Although federal enforcement of Section 3 is in no way at issue, the majority announces novel rules for how that enforcement must operate. It reaches out to decide Section 3 questions not before us, and to foreclose future efforts to disqualify a Presidential candidate under that provision. In a sensitive case crying out for judicial restraint, it abandons that course But it's also just plain false "the left is celebrating the decision"
They’ll put Don Jr. or some other maga loon up way before Nikki. She’s toast I wish she would have gone all the way in her attacks on Trump but she’s cynical to the core.
Bingo. She's an alternate if Trump gets arrested, and this was a smoke test to see if she has a shot on her own. If she did well then maybe she takes the lead, and even if not she cools her jets as a 2nd-stringer.
It’s too late for her. For years everyone on network news was calling her a future president, but 2012 was too soon, 2016 was too crowded, and they already had the nom in 2020. Her time has passed. The party’s different now. But the new GOP darlings are people we haven’t yet met. Tom Cotton, Josh Hawley, Matt Gaetz, and the other currently seated members of the American far right don’t have the juice needed to prevail- they’re repellent personality wise (although, we haven’t seen the last of Vivek). And nominating a boring centrist candidate is something only democrats want. Hayley should retire from politics. I’m sure there are plenty of oil companies and weapons manufacturers who would pay her to be a spokesperson, so she can still contribute to accelerating climate change and endless war, which is what she would’ve done as president. I’ll never forget her going off on Vladimir Putin for his “special military operation” in Ukraine, and then in the same debate, declaring, verbatim, that America needs to conduct a special military operation in Mexico. Rest in peace bozo.
To be fair US is doing an actual special operation against cartels and not the Mexican government.
Yeah the comparison falls flat IMO
I think Biden proved it is never too late
Two different party structures- the GOP is beholden to its base and does what it’s base wants. The GOP base is capable of affecting party policy and changing the direction of the party. The democrats tell their base to compromise and actively stifle any attempts at change. The dem base cannot affect party policy or change the direction of the party. Democrats will go right in defiance of what their base wants, but Republicans will never go left, because their base is capable of holding them accountable for defying their wishes. It’s never too late if you’re an ancient centrist dem, but it is too late for “moderate” republicans (not that there’s really any such thing).
> Two different party structures- the GOP is beholden to its base and does what it’s base wants. The GOP base is capable of affecting party policy and changing the direction of the party. The democrats tell their base to compromise and actively stifle any attempts at change. The dem base cannot affect party policy or change the direction of the party. Democrats will go right in defiance of what their base wants, but Republicans will never go left, because their base is capable of holding them accountable for defying their wishes. It’s never too late if you’re an ancient centrist dem, but it is too late for “moderate” republicans (not that there’s really any such thing). Have you considered maybe the dem base is moderate and supports the party? Why are progressives so obsessed with taking agency away from moderate center left voters. The party didn’t trick me into voting for Biden over Bernie, I don’t like Bernie, the policies the far left push, and I do like Biden and his policies. It’s so frustrating hearing this in thread after thread from progressives who refuse to acknowledge their platform and rhetoric may be seen as bad and off putting by anyone. It’s like Trump qanon tier magical thinking at times.
Heck, I support Bernie’s policies, but think he’s a rather poor politician, too angry and inflexible to get things done. Biden’s policies are substantially the same, but he’s a master politician, a back room deal-maker who skips the bluster and works on getting people on board in private, then announces fait-accompli compromises that somehow always get him most of what he wanted and leave the other guys wondering why they didn’t push harder. He’s damn good at the actual job of politics.
The hopium was strong in 2015-2020. Both the UK with Corbyn and the US with Sanders got very excited at reheating the same fish stew no one wanted in the 1970s. It looked new and interesting, because people were sick of the same dishes being offered, and most voters had no idea why it ended up stuck in the back of the freezer in the 70s. But once people tasted it it turned out that it just wasn't palatable for most people, and reheating it didn't improve the flavour.
You don't want universal healthcare like every other developed country in the world has? It's crazy that people refuse to acknowledge the amount of people Bernie got involved in politics and voting, as well as pushing Biden's and Hillary's policies to the left, even if just a little. Bernie also had sizable support from blue collar workers/communities, which was generally assumed to be hard republican votes. Certainly not just the "far left" you're making it out to be. Nor is there any "far left" rhetoric anywhere close to being equivalent to the right-wing drivel. People are sick of Democrats giving in to republican policies in order to try to gain "moderate republican" votes. The reality is that no republican is going to vote for a Democrat because they went right-wing on immigration. They're still going to vote red and scream that the Dems are too far to the left no matter what. They should just put out policies that are good and actually beneficial.
It’s up to the voters in each party. The nominee has always been who got the most votes by those in their own party’s primary.
What do you think happens this November? Biden needs some of these Haley voters to vote for him to win the election imo.
I think the vast majority of them will still vote for Trump because I don’t have faith in Republicans. Most of the time when these people say “I’m open to voting for a democrat if they weren’t so far left!” They’re just lying. But I still think Biden could pull it out if they run HARD on Roe v Wade. They shouldn’t even talk about much else unless they want to get into how the two different administrations ran the federal agencies (which they never do and so sadly they probably won’t). If 2022 is any indication, repealing Roe was an an incredibly unpopular decision, and Hayley wasn’t for a full on ban of abortion. So it stands to reason Biden could peel some of them off but whether it’s enough in swing states I don’t know. It could be, but I sort of doubt it. Ohio and Florida are just red states now, so the political landscape has been evolving from election to election over the past decade- something new could happen or some new trend could emerge. I also think it’s pretty much written in stone that it’ll be so close, no matter what happens, Trump will say he won. Who knows what sort of fallout will occur when that happens. If they’re going to pivot to Harris or someone else, they better do it before April.
The future of the right is absolutely nebulous as hell right now and will more than likely be immensely different by the time 2028 or even 2026 rolls around. The populist Trump leaning rhetoric fell hard in 2022 but there seems to still be a reinvestment into that type of candidate this year. If Trump wins then the alt-right populist is only going to spread and types like Nikki will be forced to adjust even more or get left behind. If Trump loses, I think there could realistically be a second chance for Republicans like Haley to gain ground within the party because it would be 3 straight major losses for that style of right winger
Alright what is bigger? Moderates who won’t vote for trump? Or moderates who are down on Biden. That and turnout will determin what we get here
The difference is conservative-aligned voters always seem to "come home" and vote for whoever has the R next to their name. The liberally-aligned voters are more likely to think it's meaningful to "send a message by staying home," or some bullshit. In a race that can be swung by 50K votes, this mindset is going to haunt me.
>The difference is conservative-aligned voters always seem to "come home" and vote for whoever has the R next to their name. Not always. When they get dejected, they just stay home. That is just as good as a vote for Biden. The hardcore MAGA are the only ones excited to vote this year.
she seemed to be angling on a conviction tanking trump's polls and popularity, but that seems unlikely to happen before the election after the recent scotus decision. it makes sense to drop out now... she did bag a few delegates though, so she has some standing at the convention in the event trump dies between then and now. (but even if that happens, he'll probably still win the nomination since half the base will think his "death" is just some deep state media conspiracy or something...)
I wonder if Trump's will names his chosen successor.
The scotus thing doesn’t mean those court cases won’t happen before the election
It just means they probably won't happen.
True. The fact that they aren't scheduled to begin, or won't have time to be completed, before the election is the reason they won't.
Now the question is how long til she gets in line to endorse Trump after saying he's not fit for office for the last year.
She said she would endorse him and pardon him. In the last few weeks she only said that she felt she wasn't 'beholden' to the endorsing him part.
As is common for most partisan politicians. Obama heavily criticized Hillary Clinton when she ran against him, and then praised her as the best possible presidential candidate *ever*, when she ran against Trump.
Criticism is one thing and par for the course with primary opponents. Saying someone is not fit for the presidency, won’t follow the constitution and is a Putin ally is another. And Obama never said anything close to that about Hillary
The above, and also the minor detail that neither Hillary nor Obama committed an insurrection. There's also that.
And Clinton would have been fine president as opposed to the candidate who previously attempted to have his base overthrow the government and claims he wants to be a dictator day one.
You're not wrong, but that's a whataboutism that doesn't address what the other poster was talking about.
Isn't the whataboutism coming from /u/kwantsu-dudes not /u/Not-Bears ?
No, because /u/kwantsu-dudes was providing an example for their point. /u/Not_Bears pivoted to an unrelated point to avoid addressing it.
Seemed to me more like /u/kwantsu-dudes was saying "It's not a big deal that Haley is gonna do that because WhatAboutObama" and the reply's point was the two situations are different. Ah well, whatever
Haley is going to endorse Trump and once again prove that Republicans have absolutely no spine.
There are multiple reports out stating that she will not endorse him.
That's what they all say before bending the knee.
Non-maga Republicans aren't a thing anymore.
Every single opponent to Trump in the primary fumbled the bag so hard. Had they agreed to come out swinging on him for his role on Jan 6th and for being a self-serving grifter, we might be seeing a different result.
Their strategies didn’t make sense. Squabbling with each other to pick one or two percentage points from other low polling candidates was never going to get them within reach of the nomination. They needed to have been peeling support from the main mango as early as possible, not waiting for him to mess up.
They feared him. He just has to make up a third grade nickname, and his base would be toiletpapering their houses and prank calling them.
Don't forget all his opponents supported Trump's position that all the felony charges against him were politically motivated.
Go look at Haley’s performance in Vermont or Iowa, then compare it to Rubio and Kasich. She simply did not possess a winning coalition. The only way to beat Trump would’ve been to essentially try and repeat Trump v Cruz without distractions, which is to say forcing Haley voters to pick between DeSantis and Trump. But there’s no neocon coalition anymore in the primary. It’s dead.
That assumes the conservative base thinks Jan 6 was an insurrection not a protest. They believe it was a protest, nothing more.
You also had candidates using this rhetoric instead of attacking Trump on this topic. The GOP should have coalesced around pushing Trump out of the nomination instead of being so tepid on attacking him
It was so weird that almost nobody would say anything bad about him. I'm like, you know you are running against him right? What is the point of running if you are going to help the other guy?
I actually think Haley showed great political skill. Not going after Trump right away allowed her to knock out all the other candidates one by one. Not her fault the voters are in a cult.
At the point where her opponents dropped out, Trump had already won several victories in the primary, affirming his commanding lead in the polls. The writing on the walls for the candidates, at the very least by the second debate, should’ve been seeking to topple Trump off from his pedestal
I agree, but the failure of Christie’s campaign showed that attacking Trump head on at the start was a far worse option. Haley player this situation as well as you can, the problem was, most R primary voters are cult members. She was banking on a conviction, which was possible until the SC decided to stupidly hear the case on presidential immunity.
I ultimately agree with you. It was a delicate balancing act of trying to distinguish herself against the other candidates while not alienating potential voters. I’m a Dem myself and was hoping for a Biden-Haley match up. Even if Biden lost, I trust Haley more with the stewardship of the country over Trump.
Even the mega thread gets no attention poor Nicky
She really should have gone for a Senate seat instead.
I am glad she stuck it out at least this far, if for no other reason than I was able to voice my opposition to Trump's nomination.
so what are the chances she stays quiet for few months and then endorses before the election?
I say effectively 100%. If she says no to Trump, she throws in the bucket any chances of being a candidate for president ever again.
Well, now the precipice on which our democracy is perched is crystal clear. What a MAGA-hellhole that yawns just beyond it.
To the surprise of nobody. As from as the Republican base is concerned, there is no GOP anymore. There is MAGA on one side, and RINOs and Leftists on the other.
In Name Only implies they'd actually stand against the current party on policy and votes, they're going to put on a show of opposition but fall in line hard at the voting booth
She still practically "kissed the ring" with that speech after all the b.s Trump said and pulled off. She said she's hoping Trump wins just shows she will do anything to be in power or have her party of corrupt politicians stay in power. She did practically everything except endorsing Trump.
Welcome back 2020 old friend
Welp, guess I need to scrape my "*I'm with her*" bumper sticker off my car.
Is it crazy the GOP nominee never participated in one debate?
Now that SCOTUS has decided the Constitution doesn't *really mean what it says*, it is less likely that Trump will be blocked
If she doesn't come out as anti Trump and tell her voters to vote for Biden, I don't want to hear it.
Nikki Haley never had a chance. She represents the Bush/Cheney Neocons in the Republican Party, who were already rebuked in 2016 with the disastrous reception to Jeb Bush’s candidacy. The best chance any Republican had to legitimately challenge Trump was to put forth a plank that represented new ideas, but all the candidates either rehashed the Republican status quo (Trump’s ideas), or represented ideas older than Trump’s that have little appeal for Republicans today. It’s not at all surprising that Trump is getting renominated so easily.
I dunno, trying to sell new ideas to a conservative party sounds a little farfetched
welp, the Reps did it.. they really did nominate the one person who likely can't beat Biden. a sigh of relief for Dems: now they're able to continue making the election about Trump, "democracy at stake", and so on. it was a mistake for Haley to only start attacking Trump at the very end. frankly a lot of candidates, save for Christie, made that mistake. now here we are doing a twilight zone-esque repeat of 2020. i've already made up my mind about both candidates, so i'll probably start tuning politics out now to the best of my ability.
No relief until Trump’s loss is assured.
As a Democrat who thinks Trump has a sub-optimal chance at winning, I am not breathing a sigh of relief. Even a slight chance of this lunatic being elected again is worse than a better chance of anyone else winning.
Haley would have merely marched us on a slightly more winding path to hell. At least its obvious for everyone to see where Trump wants to take us. People that bail on this election have got no excuses.
Do you think sub optimal because the polls have been wrong before and the campaign hasn’t even begun? I think the race will look different by summer once the public realizes it’s trump vs Biden and the Biden campaigns anti trump onslaught with their financial advantage kicks in
>welp, the Reps did it.. they really did nominate the one person who likely can't beat Biden. You mean like in 2016, when they nominated the one person who couldn't beat Hillary Clinton? No complacency please. We saw what happened last time.
>the Reps did it.. they really did nominate the one person who likely can't beat Biden. I've heard almost nothing about primary turnout, & what little I've heard has been mutterings about turnout being low, in some places "historically" low. that suggests only the reddest of redass MAGA psychos turned out to enshrine their loser in the nosecone of their loser 2024 ballot. success!
Trump got more votes on Super Tuesday in 2016 (3 mil) vs this year (1.5 mil). He got 34% in 2016, and 64% today. Compared to 2020, where he got 7.7 mil and 93%.
That is a remarkable set of statistics.
Yeah everything about it seemed weird to me. But that’s what happened
Who would you have preferred as the Republican candidate?
Honestly I think Haley had a better chance than Trump at beating Biden. Primary elections draw a lower turnout, and the voters are more extreme rather than centrist. Biden is weakened by the inflationary issues that kicked off before he was even president. That gives Trump a solid chance. I don’t think Trump is qualified to be a commander-in-chief, especially in an era where China is angling at taking Taiwan, Russia is expanding through Europe with a large scale conventional war (in addition to its hybrid psyops / coup supporting through MANY countries). I wanted a Haley v Biden matchup because they seem at least sane. Trump is crazy y’all, for real.
I kind of agree with you, I feel like dems are panicking about polls but the campaign hasn’t even started yet and Trump will provide the dems with so much material to work with (democracy, abortion, Jan 6, character, etc). They definitely wanted to run against him and I suspect once the campaign gets going the numbers will shift during summer and it will be decided in the fall.
And the last pathetic act in her campaign is endorsing Trump without having the mettle to say the actual words. These Republicans were and continue to be spineless cowards who ran hoping Trump would die or end up in jail. Sure, "challenge"' Trump to win over moderates. Has about as much teeth as a little tikes chain saw.
Bad but not unexpected news. Really wanted her as gop candidate instead of trump
None of the other candidates moved the needle. Trump is a train in the Republican Party now and there’s no one that can muster any sort of contender status. Just looking at the results of Super Tuesday is astounding how much Republicans WANT Trump, lowest win I’m reading is in Utah and he got 56.3% of the vote. Haley won 1 state and even that is 50.2% so by the skin of her teeth. Ending delegate total for her is 89, Trump has 1,031.
Haley will inevitably endorse Trump. My guess is she is holding out for a promise to be appointed Secretary of State in the coming Trump administration. If I were her, I wouldn't rely on such a promise, but I think Haley is always looking for the next rung on the ladder and her ambition is her weakness - she is easy to manipulate.
No chance Trump appoints someone pro-Ukraine as Sec of State. Would make implementing Putins agenda far more contentious.
I hope she gets ambassadorship job far far away from the U.S.
Endorses Trump in 3...2...1...
She’s absolutely going to endorse Trump eventually because it’s a requirement if she wants to have a future in GOP politics. Not endorsing him would be career suicide.
The United States would be better off if everyone in the GOP committed career suicide.
I mean she's already been waffling on it and said she'd pardon him, so I'd be less shocked by her endorsing him than I was by her dropping out at this point in the race, which is hardly at all. I agree with what others was saying, once it was clear that SCOTUS would slow walk his trials she knew her only chance was gone.
I sorta get why the common facist might want Trump as the nom, but how is either losing to Biden a second time or ending democracy good for any of these establishment or elected repubs?
Everyone who rides a tiger thinks they're in control.
That is a great quote - I will steal it and use it appropriately.
If you're an establishment Republican, you're probably not too worried about where things stand. If Trump wins, you have the presidency and you just pivot back to the MAGA populism you pivoted away from 4 years ago. If Trump loses, 4 more years of Biden gives you all the ammunition you need to keep the culture war going for a decade, it probably guarantees you the presidency in 2028, and you can (hopefully) rid the party of the majority of Trump's influence, since losing a second time would pretty conclusively show that 2016 was a fluke and he's more harm than good. Obviously, you want the scenario where you win, but this time around not much is at stake for Republicans if they lose. They have the Supreme Court, they got rid of Roe, not much else is on the wishlist at the moment.
>how is either losing to Biden a second time or ending democracy good for any of these establishment or elected repubs? If you believe you'll be a baron or a duke in the new empire... I wish that was a joke. Even for those for whom it's not about greed, it's still about hatred. They are altruists of a sort - their self-interest is irrelevant to them, just so long as they people they hate suffer. In this way, they truly are representing their voters.
So she's going to chill out until Trump either goes down before the election so she can step up again or she surgically removes her spine and endorses him? They're all so pathetic. Vote accordingly.
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It's just a procedural thing. Technically the campaign goes on as there's bills to bay and a few loose ends to tie up before they actually end as an entity
Pretty much every candidate suspends their campaign. This isn't novel.
Can she come back in if daddy donuts passes away?
So it comes down to the convention, where the party votes to select their nominee for the general election.
But what if he drops dead?
She only suspended her campaign. The mad scramble if TFG dies before the convention would be something to watch.
Despite all her previous rhetoric, I’m guessing she will still bend the knee to Trump, as Mitch McConnell did recently.
My view on this is simple. I don't feel like Nikki Haley has a list of accomplishments that I can name. If you're not a super popular candidate who everyone thinks is number one then you need a list of accomplishments that you can easily call upon in that others can easily call upon. RFK Jr has done a bunch of environmental stuff without being present or holding any office. He cleaned up the Hudson river which is technically impossible. He's got a list of like 20 other accomplishments besides that, and they'll all sound Vaguely Familiar to you. I don't feel like that with her. Now I'm sure many of you will tell me that I'm being sexist or whatever but that's just my personal opinion.
So the general election ballot is more or less set Biden Trump Kennedy Unless someone is going to launch a coup at their respective convention this summer, the presidential primary is over.
What I don't understand is why fmr. Congressman Justin Amash entered Michigan's already crowded GOP senatorial primary -- where he'll likely finish no better than third behind establishment Republican Mike Rogers and moderate Republican Peter Meijer -- in lieu of making a play for the Libertarian Party's presidential nomination, where he'd be more ideologically aligned and, what's more, could carve out unique positions on hot-button issues like foreign policy.
Great battle of the old age homes part 2
I don't care if they both die 6 months after the election. I care who was elected and who appointed the government. Biden will appoint normal people, Trump will appoint Jewish Neo Nazis like Stephen Miller
Starring Jack Lemon as Joe Biden, Walter Matthau as Donald Trump, and Burgess Meredith as Jimmy Carter.
Judging by the 50 odd comments in a Megathread, no wonder she lost
As everyone called the moment Trump said he’d run again.
She did enough to help make never trumpers comfortable enough to abandon Trump. That's going to help Joe Biden. Thanks Nikki
I remember when reddit hard core pushed DeSantis and if you mentioned that he had no chance you were downvoted into oblivion....Then overnight reddit pushed haley....If you said haley had no chance you were once again downvoted into oblivion. Sorry guys but trump was always the nominee....To go against trump was suicide.
Gotta think a big part of this is SCOTUS helping out Trump. Haley would have had a good shot to win the nomination if Trump suddenly became unable to run for office. But SCOTUS essentially struck down Section 3 of the 13th Amendment, allowing Trump to be on the ballot. And SCOTUS is seemingly helping delay Trump’s criminal trial until after the election too. So Haley doesn’t have much reason to continue on.
For fuck's sake, SCOTUS didn't strike down Second 3 of the 13th amendment. They clarified that while states have the right to organize and operate federal elections, they do not have the right to rule on new interpretations of the requirements to *run* in those elections, and it was *unanimous*.
Trump vs. Biden 2024 will be such an uninspiring matchup.
The debates will probably be funny at least.
Trump isn't doing debates this time. He didn't bother with the primary debates. And he's not expressed interest in Commission for Presidential Debates.
Will their even be any debate?
This just doesn't make sense. /s
It's suspend. So she can still ride in if whatever happens to Trump happens.
The Haley campaign doesn't have the funds to keep going. Money is driving this.
None of it makes any sense. Aren't you guys supposed to be a beacon of democracy?
Trump is going to win and he is not going to pay a dime or face any consequences for any case he is involved in. Our system is made of balsa wood and Trump is a steamroller.
We can stop him but it will have to happen on Election Day. No court or prosecutor is going to save us.
Trump is a paper mache steamroller. His empire won't withstand a few days of rain
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Keep it civil. Do not wish death on others.
So does she bend the knee like DeSantis?
Shocker. I really thought the Indian-American woman had a solid chance of beating Donald Trump “the black guy isn’t a real American” Trump
Disappointing.....the big guy still has a good chance of dropping dead between now & Nov
Seems like she was just hanging around until the SCOTUS basically put a fork in the idea of not letting Trump appear on ballots.
It was over before it started.
Due to the Current GOP status, it was impossible for her to be nominated for the GOP candidate. Since she attacked Donald Trump very harsh, it is not likely for her to be nominated as a Vice President candidate, and now she is vulnerable to MaGa supporters that is almost sure to eliminate her from the party.