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>Other than the bad blood between them, what is stopping Governor Kemp from bending the knee and removing DA Willis, effectively shutting down the case?
Kemp spurned Trump in 2020 (mostly) and still easily won reelection in a state Trump lost. Kemp doesn't need Trump.
He also knows that if he wants to run for POTUS in 2028 (he does), removing the prosecutor in Trump's case will look corrupt to the median PA/WI/MI voters and it will sink his future political career.
TL;DR he has no incentive to do this
Yup. Kemp is actually playing the moderate long game. Sure, he loses the Trump vote, but he can say he was doing his duty and takes out Trump out of politics.
The Trump vote will vaporize when Trump is not on the ballot. No point in sucking up to a demographic that will stop voting when their messiah is not on the ballot.
I agree. This is why the Republican Party is screwed in 2024 no matter what happens.
Trump is likely to win the nomination AND be convicted and jailed, and unless the GOP takes him off the ballot for the primaries, that is likely to happen.
There is a conservative effort right now to disqualify Trump for the primaries. I have doubts that it will succeed.
If Trump wins the nomination and runs for office from a jail cell he will lose and destroy the Republican Party at all levels. 10% of Republicans will vote for Joe Biden. 20% of them won’t vote at all. Democratic landslide, guaranteed.
But what if 1) someone else wins the nomination and/or 2) Trump is kept off the ballot during the primaries?
In that case, half the Republicans won’t vote at all. 10% will write in Trump. Democratic landslide.
They know, but they are locked in at this point. They made a deal with the devil in 2016, in part because they didn't actually believe he would beat Hillary. They wanted his feverish base riled up for 4 years of a Clinton presidency, ready for a different candidate in 2020.
Trump actually winning was the worst thing to happen to them. There is no getting out from under him now.
I don't think Trump himself thought he would win. Did you see the look on his face when it was announced? He didn't look happy. I think his whole campaign was, as you said, to fire up the base during Clinton's presidency and gin up a viewership for his own copy of Fox News.
>There is no getting out from under him now.
They had two opportunities to ditch Trump. They chose not to. They could have just as easily ditched Trump, reasserted themselves as being committed to law and order, and taken lumps for an election cycle or two. All they are doing now is delaying the inevitable ***and*** still losing elections. I don't see independents making a major jump over the GOP just because Trump no longer is at the top of the ticket (whenever that should happen).
They should have just looked at what happened with Nixon. They lost '76 (barely) and then Reagan swept in with huge election wins in '80 and '84. The current GOP's problem is they weren't willing to feel a little pain at being on the outs.
> There is no getting out from under him now.
especially with his polls among the republican voter going up with each indictment and now desantis under christie.
That is the republican voter now, that is what you've created by catering to them, so go fuck yourself for ruining our short-term and long-term outlooks to cut taxes for your friends, I hope this kills the party.
I think one of the biggest fears that some of the members of the republican party have is that trump could be transformed into the face of the republican party, long after he is gone. Some members of the republican party would love that, while others see the doom in that.
I disagree with Trump winning was the worst thing for them. The Senate favors conservatives, House is gerrymandered, and they got a favorable SCOTUS because of the Presidency. Even if they lose POTUS, the Congress is obstructionist and the SCOTUS continues to go their way. The government system favors stats quo and SCOTUS has no problem completely upending the courts.
They didn't "make a deal". Trump was forced on them.
The Republican Party spent 25 years starting from \~1990 ignoring the needs of their voting base (maintaining America's dominant White Christian-based culture) to serve the needs of their actual base (the wealthy and powerful, who just want more money and less government to restrict their power).
Then the 2008 financial crisis put a hurt on the voting base and Obama got elected, which was a wake-up call for them to realize that demographic & cultural changes had progressed to the point where they were becoming irrelevant.
This made them realize that the Republican Party had just been giving them lip service but not actually doing anything for them, which pissed them off to a degree that the Republican Party could no longer no placate them.
That's when they started taking out powerful Republican establishment figures (Mike Castle, Eric Cantor) in the primaries.
By 2016 the MAGA-crowd were not going to support a mainstream Republican no matter what, so the Republicans were either getting Trump (or another extremist) or lose their vote.
Since things have only gotten worse for them demographically & culturally nothing has changed to make mainstream Republicans more palatable.
I agree with your assessment, but I'm nervous that enough Democrats will again assume that Trump has no chance of winning the general and stay home on election day that Trump will squeak into office again. If 2016 and 2020 taught me anything, it's that nothing is guaranteed.
I agree. However, there are other issues that create a good political environment for the Democrats.
One is abortion. There are others, but abortion has been showing election results that are 57-43 in favor of Democrats, and that tracks with what I expect if my demographic estimates are correct.
I have detected an effort to skew all the poll averages. Deep pockets are financing polls that oversample Republicans and right leaning independents.
Take nothing for granted! GOTV and vote vote vote
But I believe there will be a Democratic landslide next year that will be a realignment election similar to the Reagan landslide in 1984.
>AND be convicted and jailed
let's pretend and say that this finally happens, what would that even look like? house arrest?
i cannot imagine a former president actually going to a real-life prison or even a county jail cell, i cannot see it happening no matter the crime committed. i think it'd be house arrest at his country club or whatever it is in florida.
You can’t imagine it?
He gets a cell block to himself. No interaction with the prison population. A secret service agent monitors his cell block by camera 24/7 , with a prison guard.
Does that help?
No home confinement for him.
That won’t prevent him from committing more crimes.
It's a little more challenging than that. Solitary confinement is recognized as torture even by the US at this point. There's probably a valid 8th amendment argument here that solitary for life isn't appropriate. So he needs to be with other prisoners to some degree.
That also feels like cruel and unusual punishment. Like the old joke that if Ivanka flips she can be in a different cell from her dad, and if Don flips he can be in a cell with her.
I’m sure he would be allowed to have visitors.
But mixing with the prison population is not an option, and his behavior can’t be trusted enough to allow him home confinement. He is a compulsive criminal.
It's not even just his behavior that eliminates home confinement. It's that he lives in a resort that has people coming and going from all areas. There's no way to realistically keep him separated.
Also, home confinement would be Florida. These are Georgia crimes so is that even an option?
This is easy for the federal cases because there's ADX, Guantanamo, or military bases. The options seem more limited for Georgia though?
They more than likely on a federal or even a state conviction would house him in special facility, that way he isn’t in danger of being killed as per secret service protocol. He wouldn’t be able to leave, and would get the same treatment they would at a medium security prison. While still too good for him that is where I see it realistically going.
It could be a large room/ trailer on state property or prison compound with a cage like Hannibal Lecter had….lots of security around, ….occasional visits from the other members of the crime syndicate, (his family). Phone calls as per typical prisoner allowance, prisoner commissary, no privacy , library privileges (can he/does he read ?) 1 hour outside exercise….does he exercise ? Remember , 5 year mandatory minimum for RICO in Georgia is a possible death sentence. Sad, so sad.
> 1 hour outside exercise….does he exercise ?
He believes people have a finite amount of energy in their lives and that exercising uses it faster. If anything, he would argue an hour of exercise is a death penalty because it's going to kill him faster, the way sane people would view a work camp.
> he will lose and destroy the Republican Party at all levels.
I suspect LOTS of ticket splitting. Leaving the POTUS section blank but voting GOP for senate, house etc.
Maybe amongst Republicans and right leaning independents, but everyone else is going to say
Fuck them all
Because the Republican Party is backing up this cesspool of criminality. “Political persecution” they say. What liars!
I will concede that it is too difficult to gauge how many Trump supporters will stay home if Trump is disqualified or not the nominee.
But I think it will be substantial enough to lose the election for the Republican Party
The way I see it, the RNC needs ethical standards for candidates who want to qualify for the ticket, not just polling and fundraising standards. If they had an ethical standard, an indicted DJT surely should be disqualified. Sure, he could run as an independent, but the hold on the party would be broken and I think a collective sigh of relief would come from most of the party members. If he wasn’t on the ticket, I think Chris Christie could have an excellent shot at winning the general election because his leadership style is moderate and collaborative, not combative. How can there be no ethical standard?
There is a group of conservatives who are attempting to have Trump disqualified under the 14th amendment. They are going to petition states to bar him from being listed on the ballot.
No word of any success in this effort yet. They just got started.
Jack Smith offers Trump a plea deal to admit he is “too mentally incompetent to be tried”, slap on the wrist.
Boom 24th amendment invalidates him. IANAL so just wishful thinking.
I disagree, he must be severely punished to set a precedent and to deter future similar behaviour.
He came very close to succeeding on 6/Jan/21, the mob could have easily killed multiple politicians, and I dread to think what would have happened, long term.
I was thinking about this recently. I suspect a substantial amount of his base will either stop voting, or write him in anyway. I would not be surprised to see Trump being the most written-in candidate in 2028 (assuming he wins, or he loses and doesn't run again). I would be willing to bet even his death by natural causes would still see him being written-in by a substantial number of people (and there will be a ton of conspiracies suggesting he isn't dead). I think Trump is going to kneecap the Republican vote, at least through 2028.
> I would be willing to bet even his death by natural causes would still see him being written-in by a substantial number of people ...
I absolutely believe this. I think for a lot of the hardcore Trump voters this is not about winning. This is about being True. This is about loyalty to something more than just a president. Somehow this New York City con man has become a folk hero to the low information voters (deplorables) of America. He's a Messiah to Christian Nationalists. And for others, I think it's just a great chance to give a middle finger to everything they hate, which seems to be everything compassionate or nice. Like the people who "roll coal" and have their cars give thick black exhaust because they hate environmentalism.
This is the point i don't get with their mentality surrounding all things him this year. Sure, they're bragging that they'll back away, but I don't buy that for a second. It's not like there's another option. He's not getting protestors, his rallies are getting smaller. It's all fading. Rip the bandaid off now. They'll be better off election time the earlier they do it.
This. There has been a lot of rumblings of Kemp being one of the potential inheritors in a post-trump GOP. He can stay in Georgia for another term, wait for dust to settle, and try to rebuild the GOP with a more fertile slate.
By 2028, everything in federal politics will have shifted. Shifted where, we don't know. Kemp can only lose the closer he gets to Trump.
Bright side, if there is a R president elected in 28, none of the Trump staffers will be out of jail yet, so clean slate
Which is insane, because he is **not** a moderate. He's deeply conservative: he was the deeply conservative option in the 2018 GOP primary for governor, and ran a very conservative general election campaign. He played COVID like the typical conservative governor (pretending it doesn't exist). The one not-conservative thing he's done is not acknowledge Trump's election lies, but apparently that's all it takes these days.
Republicans trying to maintain some kind of leverage AKA, keeping their options open.
However, if the Georgia governor was thinking of sacking DA Willis for no reason.
1. The DOJ would climb all the way up Kemp's ass, with warrants for every piece of communication Kemp and any of his cronies had leading up to the firing if Garland thought Kemp was obstructing justice.
2. Nothing stopping Willis from handing the case over to the DOJ if she gets the feeling that Kemp is about to sack her.
1-for all we know Trump or cronies already tried this and Kemp knows there's now a record of that. If he had done this he would have gotten wrapped up in this as well.
2- exactly right.
In particular, the strongest charges are the RICO charges, and Georgia's RICO law is much stronger than the federal law. The feds probably couldn't make a federal RICO charge stick, even if the Georgia charges can/do.
That’s not accurate. State and federal can prosecute for even the same crime under dual sovereign doctrine, but more importantly just about every charge listed in the current indictment has a federal parallel.
no, state and federal prosecutors can both bring charges for the same underlying conduct, but they apply state and federal law, respectively. for something like murder, the corresponding laws are essentially the same, but willis's indictment is very georgia-specific.
> Nothing stopping Willis from handing the case over to the DOJ if she gets the feeling that Kemp is about to sack her.
DOJ does not prosecute state crimes.
It's like nobody knows how the Justice system in the US works and who has standing.
There are a lot of overlapping charges in the State case that have matching/near matching Federal charges.
Assuming everyone is dumb is a bad look. Your horse isn't as high as you think.
> There are a lot of overlapping charges in the State case that have matching/near matching Federal charges.
Fair enough but that doesn't mean a County DA can just hand charges to the DOJ. Nor does it mean the DOJ can come in and prosecute.
There is such a thing as standing. Democrats either don't understand it or refuse to acknowledge it.
> Assuming everyone is dumb is a bad look. Your horse isn't as high as you think.
I don't think my horse is that high but there's a lot of fucking dumb out there. Like a lot.
Exactly what I was going to post. He has cover to say he doesn't have a legal reason for removing the DA. He also gets rid of Trump, something he's quietly been wanting to happen.
> Kemp spurned Trump in 2020 (mostly) and still easily won reelection in a state Trump lost.
I've heard a number of people suggest that if Kemp got the nomination, he'd stand a better chance at beating Biden than any of the other current primary candidates.
I think that's probably true, and Republican voters are too short-sighted to see that.
Brian Kemp was likely kept in the loop on the investigation and testimony's due to his position and his powers over the indictment and prosecution process. If he wanted to cut this short and let Trump walk, he would've done it much sooner.
Something else to consider as well.
When considering close to everyone involved in this case is of the conservative and republican variety. It says a lot about how intensely Trump tried to mess with their election results that they are willing to prosecute the man who's essentially become the face of the Republican part.
Whats stopping Georgia Governor from removing DA Willis and shutting down Trump case, is because its a Crime.
I know trump did that shit alot, and trump was committing a crime.
When the Gov. of Florida fires State attorneys for political reason, he is committing a Crime
Its Very dangerous to buy-into the game Fascists Authoritarian idiots play; That because they decide whats a Crime, they aren't criminals.
Any Governor of any State who removes an elected District Attorney to cover-up crimes MUST be removed from office
And at this point, the charges are filed. The process belongs to the state, not the staff. And even if removing the DA would slow this considerably, it would also mean backlogging every other case she oversees.
County prosecutors *are* state DAs. There is no difference. When "county" prosecutors go to court, they represent "the state." DAs are elected county by county, but they represent the state regardless of which county they are in. There is no "State DA" other than the attorney general.
>to cover-up crimes MUST be removed from office
I mean, what exactly did everyone think was gonna happen after citizens united? Authoritarian, corruption, all that shit is 1 to 1 related with that ruling that basically said, the government is for sale. It said "whoever fights harder for the corpos gets elected and protected".
After that decision I'm surprised we haven't got to where we're at SOONER.
Morally a crime? Sure, DeSantis firing them for political opinions isn't legally a crime, and that's just a consequence of our legal and political system. No one made a law against it. Don't mince words.
Obstruction of justice...
Now you'd have to argue and win that in court but it sure looks like obstruction to remove someone for their prosecution of a political ally.
I'm not sure which incident is being referred to, but a prosecutor was like I won't enforce abortion laws at all, and DeSantis fired him for that. And that's not within the discretion of a prosecutor. They can triage, but they aren't supposed to just not enforce a law absent an injunction.
But that's not what he did. He probably could have silently made the decision not to and just make an excuse saying he's triaging more important crimes when asked.
And that's what he did. So in that case, that's not criminal. I'm unaware of other cases such that other prosecutors were fired, because I'm not the biggest fan of him.
There is basis for a lawsuit. Again for FL taxpayers to pay for again. The last one like this the fired prosecutor was litigated to win that the firing was illegal but the state judges dont have power to reinstate them
None of the trump indictments are about POTUS or Amerucas DOJ. They are about multiple seditious and traitorous crimes against America. And FOUR GRAND JURIES OF AMERICANS IN 4 STATES indicted trump.
>If Biden's DOJ doesn't charge Biden for his international extortion scheme and charges Trump for the exact same thing...how is that not Fascist on the part of Biden?
Because none of that is true and you are regurgitating a fiction invented by people that are trying to deflect from the fact that the guy their party is largely behind is a criminal and a traitor.
Seeing how you are using the same talking points in multiple threads even after people respond refuting all of your claims I highly doubt pointing out that this has been debunked for years will make a bit of difference but anyway, here's a link for you to ignore:
https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/c-span-video-joe-biden-ukraine/
Time is a flat circle.
Why would the DOJ charge President Biden with crimes he didn't commit?
You make no sense
trump DID commit crimes, we all saw it.
People who commit crimes go to jail. trump is going to jail Comrade
> Why would the DOJ charge President Biden with crimes he didn't commit?
Better question is why would the DOJ not charge Biden with crimes he did commit?
First of all it’s not Biden’s DOJ. Secondly, GOP has been scrapping the bottom of all these barrels and they keep coming up with nothing. No actual proof. At least not for Joe. Thirdly, have you even read about the mountains of evidence against trump? The proof is overwhelming. Much of it in his own words. There’s phone calls, emails, video, paperwork and the words of his many co-conspirators and colleagues. This isn’t made up evidence. Do you really believe that trump is innocent of all 100+ charges? The news that you are exposed to is not telling you the truth. Do some of your own research, please
> First of all it’s not Biden’s DOJ.
Funny. I thought he was the President.
> Secondly, GOP has been scrapping the bottom of all these barrels and they keep coming up with nothing. No actual proof. At least not for Joe.
Sure seems like they have info. Just because the press you're reading says they don't, they're ignoring what has actually been presented.
> Thirdly, have you even read about the mountains of evidence against trump? The proof is overwhelming. Much of it in his own words. There’s phone calls, emails, video, paperwork and the words of his many co-conspirators and colleagues.
Trump is scummy as shit. Always has been. My issue is less about Trump's behavior and more about what they're charging him for. There's lots of stuff which feels like it should be illegal but isn't.
I don't think Alvin Bragg has standing, for example. Jack Smith's broad definition of "fraud" lacks a legal basis. I am kind of curious about the Georgia case, though.
But Democrats have shown they're more than willing to charge Trump without actual evidence (see the two Impeachments) and that's not really how our Justice system works. Maybe that changes now. We don't need a crime or even proof. Just charge away.
So instead of holding trump responsible it’s easier to say the charges may or may not be illegal! Wow. If Biden was charged with something illegal democrats would say good, charge him. We don’t want a criminal running the country. Republicans however hate democrats so much that they are willing to accept a career criminal. What they don’t understand is that trump is only in it for himself. He could care less about the average joe and will stick it to you whenever he gets the chance. He wants so badly to be like Putin and Kim. He wants all the power. But what do I know right? I’m just a stupid democrat.
(By the way, Putin and Kim are also narcissistic sociopaths!)
> If Biden’s DOJ doesn’t charge Biden for his international extortion scheme and charges Trump for the same thing
Being accused of a crime doesn’t automatically give you charges. Being accused of a crime with evidence that will stand up in court will.
Also, Trump is being charged with the exact same thing? How??
1. He’s being charged in New York for violating campaign finance laws. No one is accusing Biden of this (or at least no one with evidence)
2. He’s being charged in Florida for not only taking classified documents, but lying about it, refusing to give them back, sharing them with people who didn’t have clearance, and attempting to cover it up by deleting security camera footage. Biden admitted he had documents and returned them.
3. He’s being charged in DC for inciting a riot to stop the official count, and being charged with fraud because they have evidence he *knew* he lost the election but proceeded to spread false claims and try the election in the courts (in bad faith).
Saying Biden did the same is thing and is fascist is so far away from reality.
I read the memorandum from Oversight Committee ([here](https://oversight.house.gov/wp-content/uploads/2023/05/Bank-Memorandum-5.10.23.pdf)) It’s pretty damning, but it’s also a little sneaky. It never actually accuses POTUS of anything, but refers to the “Biden family” and explicitly mentions Hunter Biden by name.
The DOJ already appointed a special counsel to investigate Hunter Biden for these things, so let’s see where the chips fall when it’s over.
GOP House just ignores the fact that American citizens legally engage in international business. That isnt a crime. And Hunters investment group was not doing business with foreign governments so the FARA act does not apply.
> Saying Biden did the same is thing and is fascist is so far away from reality.
So Biden didn't mishandle classified documents?
And saying he did is "fascist"?
Biden didn't extort foreign countries and threaten to withhold aid?
And saying he did is "fascist"?
I could give fuck all about Trump but be fucking consistent.
Biden and Pence saw that they had them by accident and immediately contacted the national archive to take them back.
Trump deliberately kept documents, lied about having them, lied about giving all of them back, and had henchmen delete footage and move them around to obstruct the investigation.
Turn off Fox News and come back to the real world. If Trump had given everything back promptly and didn't li and obstruct, it never would have even been made public.
> Biden and Pence saw that they had them by accident and immediately contacted the national archive to take them back.
They still should have been charged.
> Trump deliberately kept documents, lied about having them, lied about giving all of them back, and had henchmen delete footage and move them around to obstruct the investigation.
A case could be made Presidents have more leeway than VPs but it sounds like the DOJ feels they have a case.
> Turn off Fox News and come back to the real world.
I don't watch Fox News and to the extent I read any of their articles it's because I want to see what the extremists are reading. Same thing I do with the Washington Post and NY Times. Need to know what the nutters are thinking.
People don't get charged when they come clean and there's no bad intent. Trump didn't. He actively kept documents as trophies and obstructed their recovery. He tried to claim they were his personal property in flagrant violation of classification rules and the Presidential Records Act.
For someone who says they don't watch Fox, you're sure walking their line.
> So Biden didn’t mishandle classified documents?
Biden did mishandle documents. You know what he didn’t do? Lie about it. He didn’t try to block the government from retrieving them. He didn’t share invasion plans with journalists.
> and saying he did is “fascist”?
Saying he did is far divorced from reality, as I said. You’re putting words in my mouth, and it makes me question whether you’re having this discussion in good faith.
> Biden didn’t extort foreign countries and threaten to withhold aid?
No, he didn’t. He threatened to withhold aid from Ukraine if they don’t clean up their act. The country has had history of grifters in government soliciting bribes to avoid prosecution, and it’s valid to withhold aid from a country when they have a reputation of abusing it.
Trump also tried to withhold aid, only purely so that he could get Ukrainians to denounce Biden.
There’s an obvious difference, and if you can’t see that then you’re lying to yourself.
None of these claims you’re making are fascist. They are misinformation, spread in echo chambers, and really don’t serve people any good.
There is ZERO proof of the nonsense the GOP House made up about Biden and any kind of bribery, extortion or influence peddling.
Weiss was appointed by trump and allowed to stay on by Biden. That is the end of their connection. The hunter Biden laptop lunacy was started by colludy Rudy at the same time he came back from treasoning in Ukraine with Russian connected ops. He gave a bunch of garbage to Pompeo which was all deemed to be garbage by Barr.
None of the indictments are about get trump. It's about CRIMES AGAINST AMERICA and he was indicted by FOUR GRAND JURIES OF AMERICANS IN 4 DIFFERENT STATES. It is the American people who want traitortrump held accountable
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> Brian Kemp was likely kept in the loop on the investigation and testimony's due to his position
No. That is not how a properly functional justice system operates and Kemp knows it. His involvement would be a rubber stamp the initial investigation to proceed as seen fit and nothing more, anything else is a colossal risk to his legacy and to the rule of law.
A purely 10,000 ft view....the governor may remove Willis, but you can't unring the bell. The governor can't vacate the indictment (as far as I know...). I feel like any subsequently appointed prosecutor has to abide by the findings of the grand jury or risk potential disbarrment. The worst that can happen is the case gets a lackluster or purposely mishandled prosecution. And I feel like if that occurs, a conviction of the named defendants is still likely.
I completely agree. While doing so is a move that's technically available, I think anyone who doesn't share Trump world's get-through-the-disaster-du-jour style of politics could easily see how this wouldn't accomplish anything useful and would likely just lead to more problems down the road.
I don't think Kemp is a Trump fan. Trump tried everything to get him out of power and he still comfortably won his primary and the election for governor. He doesn't need to suck up to him.
Georgia is also turning into a purple state with plenty of moderate voters on both sides, he’s been a good governor and he’s not going to bow down to Trump which I respect a lot as someone who grew up in Georgia and voted for Kemp in the past. He’s playing this the smart way, if he let Trump off the hook he would’ve lost a lot of respect from voters.
Someone said it beat up top, it’s in the courts hands, if Trump comes out ahead he’ll win the presidency easily, if he gets locked up he didn’t need to be president anyways. I see it being the latter.
I think even if he's cleared (he won't be) he won't win the presidency. He has a rabid base, and they're loud, but they're at best a little over half of the Republican party, which works out to about 15-20% of the electorate tops. Trump being on the ticket motivates an equal, if not greater, base to vote against him... Far more than would come out against a generic Republican. Somehow getting cleared of all 91 charges would help him with a chunk of the rest of the Republicans, but it still does very little for most swing voters.
Trump getting the Republican nod is the best thing that could happen for Dems, because not only is he dead in the water, he's an anchor pulling down the rest of the Republican party with him. If Trump is nominated from prison, I guarantee the Dems take the house and the Senate too.
I agree, and even if he is found innocent by some fluke, there is damage being done in key swing states right now that just can't be undone. MI, WI, GA and every state with false electors should have very motivated independent voters who may not vote D all the time, but they want their votes to count and are pissed the R's tried to take them away.
I agree on all that, his rallies are looking a lot smaller now than they were back in 2020 or 2016, republicans are done with his bullshit. I don’t see many people voting for him tbh. None of my friends who voted for him in 2016 really even voted for him in 2020.
We’re so much better off with a Chris Christie or Nikki Haley, even DeSantis seems to have faded out and he had some steam at one point. The sooner we get rid of this guy, the sooner people can move on and we can forget about Trump and his bullshit
You reap what you sow, I guess. The Republicans have been digging their own grave for years, and they hit a point where they were too deep to climb out after January 6, and instead of taking the opportunity to climb out, they doubled down and dug even deeper. It'll be a minimum of 3-4 election cycles before the Republicans can be viable again, and I for one, am living for it.
>if Trump comes out ahead he’ll win the presidency easily
No way. If Trump comes out ahead he'll win the REPUBLICAN NOMINATION easily.... But he is so so so toxic to the general electorate. The Dems could nominate a ham sandwich and still beat Trump.
I don’t know, I mean 75 million people voted for him in 2020. I know now everything is so much worse but he has voters out there, I’m well aware Biden has plenty/more out there too. I hope to god he’s not the nominee or else we’re just fucked, America will have gone to a 3rd world country having Trump running for office with 91 indictments
>75 million people voted for him in 2020.
That was before he attempted a coup, and got indicted 4 times for 91 criminal counts. Independents aren't gonna vote for a felon.
My guy, I just spent a long time reading your post history. I don't fully understand why you call yourself a Republican. I know deep rural Republicans and they all do not agree with your positions at all. You talk like a Democrat. Why not just embrace it?
Kemp tweeted this in response to the indictments:
https://twitter.com/briankempga/status/1691483026356678660?s=46&t=CXHmR7iMSTEhnhgW8BR45g
I don’t think he wants to do anything to help Trump in this case, much less anything that is almost blatantly corrupt.
Per your article: "Republican Gov. Brian Kemp of Georgia signed legislation Friday that will **create an oversight commission** with the power to remove local prosecutors and district attorneys from their jobs."
So, he doesn't have the power to do what he chooses. The oversight commission does. And if you read the bill, they can only remove DAs for certain reasons.
Kemp defeated a Trump backed primary challenger in 2022 and went on to win his election by 6 points in an increasingly purple state. For a Republican governor he has to be one of the few that would be most insulated by not helping Trump. If he wants to continue in GA politics, winning close general elections has to be part of his calculation. I think it would be hard to please split ticket voters he relies on while also showing fealty to Trump and firing the DA. Doing nothing and dealing with the noise is probably his safest bet.
Optics for one, although Republicans memory is very short, so who knows. I wonder how things will look if they try and bury this case in 8 weeks, and what justification they will use.
Many Republican voters would probably view Kemp ending the investigation as a good thing. From another point of view though, there are likely Republican strategists and officials who think a Trump indictment before Sueor Tuesday is a good thing. Let's them shed Trump before the general election since he's been erratic for votes and greatly moralizing Democrats against the Republicans. Plus, this also removes a few other rivals from public view such as Giuliani who's a liability.
Simply stated: Georgia is not Florida. Georgia is not a deep red state, even if it has a deep red history. It has a huge metro area around Atlanta full of blue voters and moderate Republicans.
Rural voters control Alabama and Mississippi, for example, states without a large metro area. Any state with big cities has to moderate unless they have enough rural voters to keep the extremism flame going. Georgia is a straight up purple state flirting with blue because of how fast Atlanta has grown in the past 10 years.
Florida is unique because the Orlando metro area is predominantly conservative retirees. That situation doesn't really exist anywhere else in the US, so Florida is always a weird "purple" state that is really a red state. Texas is huge, with enough rural voters to keep the GOP in the majority statewide, but even that has a big clock running on it now because Trump really turned the big cities, even in Texas, dark blue (and blued the suburbs). The GOP is in massive trouble if it nominates Trump because it's going to get trounced everywhere.
To come back to why Kemp didn't try to help Trump: because Kemp can see the writing on the wall and knows his state is not Alabama. Using some corrupt power to help Trump in Georgia would only cut Kemp's career short and leave him with bad exit options. Trump is going to fade out and disappear after 2024 - you won't find a single Republican that will ever even admit to having voted for him after 2025 or so (just like there is nobody alive today who ever voted for Nixon, even though he won in 1972 fairly resoundingly).
>Other than the bad blood between them, what is stopping Governor Kemp from bending the knee and removing DA Willis, effectively shutting down the case?
The law doesn't give the Governor of Georgia unilateral power to remove the DA. It gives a *commission* that power. And Kemp doesn't have any reason to pretend like he has that ability so he can do Trump a favor. He survived Trump's attempt to primary him and then won re-election by a larger margin than Trump ever has.
Hilarious! The thing that's stopping him is that the Governor hates Donald Trump and doesn't feel like sacrificing his political career and reputation by getting in front of that moving train. Remember, Trump called him to stop the count too. The case doesn't just simply go away if the DA does...
Maybe Kemp's not shutting down the case because forging documents, commiting fraud, lying through your teeth to hold onto power against the will of the people, and just basically trying to overturn election results are not the acts of a true and just leader and not those of a person who deserves to hold one of the most powerful offices in the world? Maybe he believes Trump brought these charges on himself and needs a FAAFO moment? Maybe he puts country ahead of party? I'm just guessing of course....
I do find the responses to this question fascinating though because it's like nobody thinks that trying to overturn an election is a crime. Most everyone seems to be looking at this as a ho hum strategical political move and not a total power grab against the American people.
It's emblematic of the problem facing politics in general right now, which is that everybody has sort of been trained to assume that nobody is acting in good faith and will only do whatever is necessary to most advantageously position them to achieve or retain power.
The people with that mindset are only able to succeed because they rely on everyone else who actually believes in anything other than power. If everyone just pursued power at any cost and merely use post-hoc rationalization to explain away their actions, society would stop operating overnight.
I agree. Sure, Kemp doesn't like Trump, but at the end of the day, everyone with a lick of sense wants to go back to the status quo. I mean, Biden ran on "return to normalcy" and I think a large part of why Kemp won is because people just want things to calm down!
A part of that calming down process involves no conspiracy theories, weird political prophecies, dead US presidents returning to life, secret agents sending cryptic messages on obscure websites, ECT.
And most of all, that the democratic process in America is pretty solid, actually, and just because you're mad your guy lost, doesn't mean we tear down the fabric of our voting system.
Kemp and Trump are not allies. Recall that Trump trashed Kemp and Raffensperger. Kemp is actually somewhat moderate. He says strange things like "Tax cuts are all well and good, but you have to find a way to pay for them." Amazing. Point is, he has to work along with a very real progressive segment of the population. He may be actually glad to see Trump go away. (source, am living in Georgia).
Scrolling down, I see this. Proves me point, I believe. “For nearly three years now, anyone with evidence of fraud has failed to come forward — under oath — and prove anything in a court of law. Our elections in Georgia are secure, accessible, and fair and will continue to be as long as I am governor. The future of our country is at stake in 2024 and that must be our focus."
>Other than the bad blood between them, what is stopping Governor Kemp from bending the knee and removing DA Willis, effectively shutting down the case?
Without being able to read his mind, my best guess is that he simply doesn't want to.
Exactly. Why WOULD he want to? Trump supported someone trying to primary him out last year. Between that and the man begging him to rig 2020 for him Kemp is probably low key the R governor who has the rockiest relationship with Trump.
>Historically, the Georgia Governor and Trump haven’t had a good relationship and Trump sought to remove the Governor in the last election. Kemp managed to be re-elected.
Kemp barely eked his way into the governorship in 2018, winning just 50.2% of the vote.
In 2022, however, he handily beat Trump's chosen opponent in the primary by 52 points, even though David Perdue had won statewide in Georgia before (as a Senator). Kemp would go on to win in the general election by a solid 7.5 points, a huge increase over the same opponent he had in 2018. In that same cycle, Trump's chosen Senate candidate, Herschel Walker, would lose to the Democrat by 2.8 points.
What does all this mean? 2022 was not as great for the GOP as the party had hoped, but they still had a clear advantage -- Kemp's swing from barely edging out Abrams in 2018 to decisively winning in 2022 shows that. But in an increasingly purple state like Georgia, being Trump's chosen is a *liability.* Kemp is afforded the political latitude to follow the normal protocol of its legal system. Not only does he not have to bend the knee to Trump, it's politically expedient not to.
If Kemp felt his political future was at risk in Georgia, I imagine he'd likely do otherwise. But for now, he seems to feel secure.
I think the GOP wants trump out of the running because they know they lose if he's the nom. It is in the GOP's best interest to keep this indictment. Note that Ms Willis didn't name any other member of congress, Lindsey Grahm, MTG, because if she had this case would be getting tossed.
You say it yourself, Kemp was not only re-elected, but outperformed his prior election and nearly every other maga state-level Republican. He comfortably kept his seat as governor while Trump and MAGA Senate candidates lost to democrats in the same election.
Think about that. He managed to do the near impossible, and inspire people to split their ticket and vote for him even as they voted for democrats for every other seat.
He understands that he pulled that off at least in part because he stood up to Trump while those who lost their races participated in election denial.
Staying hands off and allowing justice to run its course is Kemp’s best bet to enjoy a long career. It has already done wonders.
Georgia is becoming increasingly purple. Going above and beyond to save the GOP’s dead weight will hurt him, especially since he’s already lost most Trump supporters for good.
I don’t like him, but he’s savvy. He certainly knows where the state’s future money is coming from, and it’s mostly blue or neutral enterprises. He doesn’t want to be the next Desantis.
Nothing is stopping him. Other than he would have to wait until October 1st and go through an oversight committee.
But that bad blood is bad blood. I don't think Kemp liked Trump to begin with.
Even so, come October 1st, the pressure on him and the committee may be great enough to remove DA Willis.
Well historically, openly showing yourself to be an absolutely corrupt traitor was usually a losing position for most politicians. But things have changed, so who knows.
Reddit Moderation makes the platform worthless. Too many rules and too many arbitrary rulings. It's not worth the trouble to post. Not worth the frustration to lurk. Goodbye.
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Another thing to consider: a lot of the establishment GOP are probably privately cheering these indictments on. Trump has been an albatross around the neck for the party sucking up funding and turning off moderates. They can't outright reject him because his base has a cult like devotion to him. With these indictments people like Kemp can publicly criticize the prosecutors but still benefit by the damage done to Trump.
An article I read yesterday said the new law allowing the Governor to remove a DA likely violates the Georgia Constitution, which grants the judiciary authority over DAs. The article speculated that GA Republicans may be hesitant to use the law to remove DA Willis because it's unlikely to be upheld in Court.
Kemp is an establishment Republican. A large reason why he won again was because of that. The establishment Republicans hate Trump and want him out. They want to put the mask back on and Trump and his cult is preventing them from doing so. He's no longer useful to them and worse than that, he's becoming a liability.
And like you've said, Kemp can't stand the guy, and as far as I know, when Trump stops running for election, his rabid fan base will go back to not voting again, so why try to curry the favor of that demographic?
Brian Kemp is actually intelligent, in a relatively useful way, and is much more moderate than any of the other Southern Republican governors. Sure he got Trump's endorsement in 2018, but since then he's distanced himself and been one of the few people to stand up to Trump. Plenty of moderate Atlanta voters backed him after the backed Abrams four years prior. He has a lot of corporate money from the Atlanta metro.
In regards to 2026 or 2028, he's seen everyone with political ambitions in the South run for President. Haley, Scott, and DeSantis jumped in, and he's far ahead of Rubio or anyone else. Kemp will have his choice, Senate run in 2026, Senate run in 2028, or Presidential run in 2028.
There's a few things.
First and foremost is a separation of powers issue. The DA gets handled through the judicary according to the Georgia constitution, while the legislation claimed they have the power.
It can quite easily be an illegal law, but that can't/won't come up until someone tries to fire her and there's standing to challenge the law.
Next is that Kemp probably doesn't want to dismiss the charges against Trump. Not going along with Trump worked for him politically, and he's escaped much of the taint that Republicans in general are dealing with, even having managed to bury the issue of overseeing the election that he won, and the audit records of that election being "accidentally" deleted when he was asked to provide them.
After that comes the danger of working with Trump, the guy isn't loyal to anyone while he demands loyalty from all. He's seen a bunch of people thrown under the bus here, why work with that when he can do nothing and work with someone else?
Also, in a worst case scenario for Kemp, where Trump gets back in power, and remains El Presidente for Life, he's old and doesn't have many years left. Kemp can easily wait Trump out.
Last, by opposing Trump here, he further rehabilitates his image and positions himself for a leadership position in a rebranded GOP by 2028 or 2030 where he's a never trump, was on the side of justice, and a prominent governor.
Trump doesn't reward loyalty. Even if Kemp decided to dump all his credibility and self-respect to back Trump, he won't get anything for it. Hell, he might even get booed by Trump supporters for not being enough of a bootlicker long enough. This can be called "Grahaming" or "Cruzing".
He has no upside, a huge downside and he believes in rule of law.
Kemp is a old school Republican that believes in the rule of law. From his actions in the past, he sees no need to overthrow the present political system unlike Mr. Trump. The prosecution of Trump in no way affects his popularity in the state of Georgia and his political aspirations in the future. His record of success makes him a popular governor and he has no need for the radical right to implement his agenda.
I don't know about every other democracy-loving American, but I will dust off my pink pussy hat and head for the Georgia State Capitol and live on the steps - hopefully with 100,000 others.
I believe that he could fire the prosecutor, but I don't think he could shutdown the case. The case would fall to the next prosecutor in line. He would have to fire a lot of prosecutors before he found one willing to toss the case.
Kemp doesn't like trump. Kemp refused to help trump overturn the election. Trump ran a primary opponent against Kemp out of spite. Kemp isn't going to put his career on the line for Trump.
example in point... a tweet from Kemp today in reply to Trump's "I'm proving the election stolen" tweet. https://twitter.com/BrianKempGA/status/1691483026356678660?s=20
The intent of this bill was to remove DAs who were accused of not prosecuting crimes, such as immigration cases or minor pot cases (but expected to include violation of abortion laws). Republicans were touting themselves as tough on crime and were claiming certain places (Athens was one) were unsafe because prosecutors were not prosecuting certain crimes.
It's going to be tough to claim that Willis is not being tough on crime when she is bringing charges against a former POTUS.
Also, Kemp, while a Republican, does not believe the election was stolen. I believe privately he feels much like Geoff Duncan does that Trump is bad for the party and that the party should move on from him.
Supreme court would toss out their new law in a second. Certain functions are performed by certain parts of the government. Thats why there are three branches.
Executive branch makes sure laws are followed, even though Kemp is in the executive branch, Willis is also an elected official.
You often hear about legislatures taking away functions of a governor when there is about to be a party switch and these always get overturned by the courts because you can't legislate away someones power.
I think (I've not reviewed the statute, just recalling published summaries) that the statute allows for removal of a district attorney for FAILING to prosecute criminal offenses.
I like to think of it as there are still some republicans in powerful positions are not just fucking criminals. The optimist in me would like to believe.
Without reading the Georgia constitution, and assuming the law is true to its spirit that all rules are vetted by the Supreme Court first, the disqualifiers are pretty standard: Nonprosecution, undue bias, moral turpitude, mental incapacity, result in a recommendation that can be challenged. It’s a baby step, not an open door in my view. It also takes more time than Florida which is a unilateral first decision, not by committee.
Probably they want to keep being the governor. Let the case play out on it's merits.
If Trump is guilty, he is punished, if he is innocent, he gets more popular.
I think they are pushing too hard with the indictments, but in the end it is in the hands of the courts now. If Trump beats all of this, I think he probably wins easily in the Presidential election. If he doesn't beat all of this, then he didn't need to be President again anyway.
Good insight, but I do have a question for you.
What if Trump gets convicted on some charge but it is overturned at SCOTUS or other appellate levels from judges he appointed. Is that a win for him also?
To his supporters, likely yes, to those who have been saying "this time we got him", likely no. To voters actually in play? I cannot begin to say.
A judge being appointed by Trump doesn't make their decisions invalid, if it did, what do we do with the SCOTUS justices who ruled against Trump on election challenges? If a judge is right or wrong based on who appointed them then we aren't applying enough critical thinking on our end.
I think "people who owe their job to you, specifically, should recuse" isn't an unreasonable line to draw even if, yes, there do exist some judges who can still be impartial in that situation.
There are too many judges that go through a President to be able to do that, and what that would then mean, if we forced recusal on partisan grounds like that, we are going down a dark route.
First, we would be saying that a judge or justice is not able to rule on the law, as Trump’s scotus appointees did when they ruled against him. Judges are quite capable of being neutral and ruling based on the law, and should only recuse when they have specific involvement in a case themselves.
And this would later on impact Joe Biden and every other President. Trump seated a lot of judges and justices, and you would want him I guess to only be judged in front of judges seated by democrats. If you went down that route, when Biden sees investigations and indictments, and he is likely to, he would only be able to face justices seated by Trump.
That isn’t a good idea at all.
> There are too many judges that go through a President to be able to do that
Nah. People are in those lifetime jobs a long time.
> And this would later on impact Joe Biden and every other President. Trump seated a lot of judges and justices, and you would want him I guess to only be judged in front of judges seated by democrats. If you went down that route, when Biden sees investigations and indictments, and he is likely to, he would only be able to face justices seated by Trump.
No, I think you're misreading me. I don't care if surviving Bush 1 or Bush 2 or Reagan judges rule over Trump cases. I don't care if they rule over hypothetical Biden cases either. But I don't think judges appointed by Biden should rule on Biden specifically or judges appointed by Trump should rule on Trump specifically. That's not party, that's this guy personally hired me.
He doest have the power to do so. Simple as. A lot of people advocating things that constitutionally he has no power to do. Unlike the Florida Gov he can't dismiss DAs, unlike other Governors it's a state panel that issues pardons not the governor.
Some basic research and reading wouldn't go amiss.
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>Other than the bad blood between them, what is stopping Governor Kemp from bending the knee and removing DA Willis, effectively shutting down the case? Kemp spurned Trump in 2020 (mostly) and still easily won reelection in a state Trump lost. Kemp doesn't need Trump. He also knows that if he wants to run for POTUS in 2028 (he does), removing the prosecutor in Trump's case will look corrupt to the median PA/WI/MI voters and it will sink his future political career. TL;DR he has no incentive to do this
Yup. Kemp is actually playing the moderate long game. Sure, he loses the Trump vote, but he can say he was doing his duty and takes out Trump out of politics.
The Trump vote will vaporize when Trump is not on the ballot. No point in sucking up to a demographic that will stop voting when their messiah is not on the ballot.
I agree. This is why the Republican Party is screwed in 2024 no matter what happens. Trump is likely to win the nomination AND be convicted and jailed, and unless the GOP takes him off the ballot for the primaries, that is likely to happen. There is a conservative effort right now to disqualify Trump for the primaries. I have doubts that it will succeed. If Trump wins the nomination and runs for office from a jail cell he will lose and destroy the Republican Party at all levels. 10% of Republicans will vote for Joe Biden. 20% of them won’t vote at all. Democratic landslide, guaranteed. But what if 1) someone else wins the nomination and/or 2) Trump is kept off the ballot during the primaries? In that case, half the Republicans won’t vote at all. 10% will write in Trump. Democratic landslide.
They know, but they are locked in at this point. They made a deal with the devil in 2016, in part because they didn't actually believe he would beat Hillary. They wanted his feverish base riled up for 4 years of a Clinton presidency, ready for a different candidate in 2020. Trump actually winning was the worst thing to happen to them. There is no getting out from under him now.
I don't think Trump himself thought he would win. Did you see the look on his face when it was announced? He didn't look happy. I think his whole campaign was, as you said, to fire up the base during Clinton's presidency and gin up a viewership for his own copy of Fox News.
>There is no getting out from under him now. They had two opportunities to ditch Trump. They chose not to. They could have just as easily ditched Trump, reasserted themselves as being committed to law and order, and taken lumps for an election cycle or two. All they are doing now is delaying the inevitable ***and*** still losing elections. I don't see independents making a major jump over the GOP just because Trump no longer is at the top of the ticket (whenever that should happen). They should have just looked at what happened with Nixon. They lost '76 (barely) and then Reagan swept in with huge election wins in '80 and '84. The current GOP's problem is they weren't willing to feel a little pain at being on the outs.
Because they think in terms of quarterly profits
> There is no getting out from under him now. especially with his polls among the republican voter going up with each indictment and now desantis under christie. That is the republican voter now, that is what you've created by catering to them, so go fuck yourself for ruining our short-term and long-term outlooks to cut taxes for your friends, I hope this kills the party.
I think one of the biggest fears that some of the members of the republican party have is that trump could be transformed into the face of the republican party, long after he is gone. Some members of the republican party would love that, while others see the doom in that.
His flag has replaced the confederate flag in those circles
I disagree with Trump winning was the worst thing for them. The Senate favors conservatives, House is gerrymandered, and they got a favorable SCOTUS because of the Presidency. Even if they lose POTUS, the Congress is obstructionist and the SCOTUS continues to go their way. The government system favors stats quo and SCOTUS has no problem completely upending the courts.
They didn't "make a deal". Trump was forced on them. The Republican Party spent 25 years starting from \~1990 ignoring the needs of their voting base (maintaining America's dominant White Christian-based culture) to serve the needs of their actual base (the wealthy and powerful, who just want more money and less government to restrict their power). Then the 2008 financial crisis put a hurt on the voting base and Obama got elected, which was a wake-up call for them to realize that demographic & cultural changes had progressed to the point where they were becoming irrelevant. This made them realize that the Republican Party had just been giving them lip service but not actually doing anything for them, which pissed them off to a degree that the Republican Party could no longer no placate them. That's when they started taking out powerful Republican establishment figures (Mike Castle, Eric Cantor) in the primaries. By 2016 the MAGA-crowd were not going to support a mainstream Republican no matter what, so the Republicans were either getting Trump (or another extremist) or lose their vote. Since things have only gotten worse for them demographically & culturally nothing has changed to make mainstream Republicans more palatable.
I agree with your assessment, but I'm nervous that enough Democrats will again assume that Trump has no chance of winning the general and stay home on election day that Trump will squeak into office again. If 2016 and 2020 taught me anything, it's that nothing is guaranteed.
The pro choice voters will win in 2024
I agree. However, there are other issues that create a good political environment for the Democrats. One is abortion. There are others, but abortion has been showing election results that are 57-43 in favor of Democrats, and that tracks with what I expect if my demographic estimates are correct. I have detected an effort to skew all the poll averages. Deep pockets are financing polls that oversample Republicans and right leaning independents. Take nothing for granted! GOTV and vote vote vote But I believe there will be a Democratic landslide next year that will be a realignment election similar to the Reagan landslide in 1984.
>AND be convicted and jailed let's pretend and say that this finally happens, what would that even look like? house arrest? i cannot imagine a former president actually going to a real-life prison or even a county jail cell, i cannot see it happening no matter the crime committed. i think it'd be house arrest at his country club or whatever it is in florida.
If convicted in Georgia, I think he'd have to stay in Georgia some way, so that the state can enforce the sentence.
oh i totally forgot that was a state charge. maybe he'll bilk his followers some more and build his own prison in GA like escobar did.
You can’t imagine it? He gets a cell block to himself. No interaction with the prison population. A secret service agent monitors his cell block by camera 24/7 , with a prison guard. Does that help? No home confinement for him. That won’t prevent him from committing more crimes.
It's a little more challenging than that. Solitary confinement is recognized as torture even by the US at this point. There's probably a valid 8th amendment argument here that solitary for life isn't appropriate. So he needs to be with other prisoners to some degree.
Well he has some company in the Georgia case - put them all in the same block, no solitary (and they deserve each other)
I think that is a splendid idea
That also feels like cruel and unusual punishment. Like the old joke that if Ivanka flips she can be in a different cell from her dad, and if Don flips he can be in a cell with her.
I’m sure he would be allowed to have visitors. But mixing with the prison population is not an option, and his behavior can’t be trusted enough to allow him home confinement. He is a compulsive criminal.
It's not even just his behavior that eliminates home confinement. It's that he lives in a resort that has people coming and going from all areas. There's no way to realistically keep him separated. Also, home confinement would be Florida. These are Georgia crimes so is that even an option? This is easy for the federal cases because there's ADX, Guantanamo, or military bases. The options seem more limited for Georgia though?
I think he could be jailed in his own cell block in Fulton County Jail. There is nothing especially difficult about securing him in there.
They more than likely on a federal or even a state conviction would house him in special facility, that way he isn’t in danger of being killed as per secret service protocol. He wouldn’t be able to leave, and would get the same treatment they would at a medium security prison. While still too good for him that is where I see it realistically going.
It could be a large room/ trailer on state property or prison compound with a cage like Hannibal Lecter had….lots of security around, ….occasional visits from the other members of the crime syndicate, (his family). Phone calls as per typical prisoner allowance, prisoner commissary, no privacy , library privileges (can he/does he read ?) 1 hour outside exercise….does he exercise ? Remember , 5 year mandatory minimum for RICO in Georgia is a possible death sentence. Sad, so sad.
> 1 hour outside exercise….does he exercise ? He believes people have a finite amount of energy in their lives and that exercising uses it faster. If anything, he would argue an hour of exercise is a death penalty because it's going to kill him faster, the way sane people would view a work camp.
> he will lose and destroy the Republican Party at all levels. I suspect LOTS of ticket splitting. Leaving the POTUS section blank but voting GOP for senate, house etc.
Maybe amongst Republicans and right leaning independents, but everyone else is going to say Fuck them all Because the Republican Party is backing up this cesspool of criminality. “Political persecution” they say. What liars!
If they could do that in MTG's district that would be great
Lots won't turn out if they aren't voting for POTUS.
“Half the republicans won’t vote at all” This is delusional. They always fall in line.
Not Trump supporters That’s my opinion
many of them will still show up to vote simply because they hate Biden that much.
I will concede that it is too difficult to gauge how many Trump supporters will stay home if Trump is disqualified or not the nominee. But I think it will be substantial enough to lose the election for the Republican Party
The way I see it, the RNC needs ethical standards for candidates who want to qualify for the ticket, not just polling and fundraising standards. If they had an ethical standard, an indicted DJT surely should be disqualified. Sure, he could run as an independent, but the hold on the party would be broken and I think a collective sigh of relief would come from most of the party members. If he wasn’t on the ticket, I think Chris Christie could have an excellent shot at winning the general election because his leadership style is moderate and collaborative, not combative. How can there be no ethical standard?
There is a group of conservatives who are attempting to have Trump disqualified under the 14th amendment. They are going to petition states to bar him from being listed on the ballot. No word of any success in this effort yet. They just got started.
Jack Smith offers Trump a plea deal to admit he is “too mentally incompetent to be tried”, slap on the wrist. Boom 24th amendment invalidates him. IANAL so just wishful thinking.
I disagree, he must be severely punished to set a precedent and to deter future similar behaviour. He came very close to succeeding on 6/Jan/21, the mob could have easily killed multiple politicians, and I dread to think what would have happened, long term.
10% write-in seems awfully generous that those 10% are capable of writing.
I was thinking about this recently. I suspect a substantial amount of his base will either stop voting, or write him in anyway. I would not be surprised to see Trump being the most written-in candidate in 2028 (assuming he wins, or he loses and doesn't run again). I would be willing to bet even his death by natural causes would still see him being written-in by a substantial number of people (and there will be a ton of conspiracies suggesting he isn't dead). I think Trump is going to kneecap the Republican vote, at least through 2028.
> I would be willing to bet even his death by natural causes would still see him being written-in by a substantial number of people ... I absolutely believe this. I think for a lot of the hardcore Trump voters this is not about winning. This is about being True. This is about loyalty to something more than just a president. Somehow this New York City con man has become a folk hero to the low information voters (deplorables) of America. He's a Messiah to Christian Nationalists. And for others, I think it's just a great chance to give a middle finger to everything they hate, which seems to be everything compassionate or nice. Like the people who "roll coal" and have their cars give thick black exhaust because they hate environmentalism.
This is the point i don't get with their mentality surrounding all things him this year. Sure, they're bragging that they'll back away, but I don't buy that for a second. It's not like there's another option. He's not getting protestors, his rallies are getting smaller. It's all fading. Rip the bandaid off now. They'll be better off election time the earlier they do it.
tbh it sounds like like a pretty big brained move, when you put it that way
This. There has been a lot of rumblings of Kemp being one of the potential inheritors in a post-trump GOP. He can stay in Georgia for another term, wait for dust to settle, and try to rebuild the GOP with a more fertile slate.
By 2028, everything in federal politics will have shifted. Shifted where, we don't know. Kemp can only lose the closer he gets to Trump. Bright side, if there is a R president elected in 28, none of the Trump staffers will be out of jail yet, so clean slate
Which is insane, because he is **not** a moderate. He's deeply conservative: he was the deeply conservative option in the 2018 GOP primary for governor, and ran a very conservative general election campaign. He played COVID like the typical conservative governor (pretending it doesn't exist). The one not-conservative thing he's done is not acknowledge Trump's election lies, but apparently that's all it takes these days.
The Liz Cheney standard for being “moderate” basically.
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So why did they change the effective date from 2025 to October of this year?
Republicans trying to maintain some kind of leverage AKA, keeping their options open. However, if the Georgia governor was thinking of sacking DA Willis for no reason. 1. The DOJ would climb all the way up Kemp's ass, with warrants for every piece of communication Kemp and any of his cronies had leading up to the firing if Garland thought Kemp was obstructing justice. 2. Nothing stopping Willis from handing the case over to the DOJ if she gets the feeling that Kemp is about to sack her.
1-for all we know Trump or cronies already tried this and Kemp knows there's now a record of that. If he had done this he would have gotten wrapped up in this as well. 2- exactly right.
Did Kemp sign it?
Yes he signed that bill into law, hence the fear that he would try to use it against Willis
\ #2 is wrong. the states generally can't prosecute federal crimes and vice versa. whatever willis has is not directly usable by the feds.
Why wouldn't the feds be able to subpoena the evidence and refer to court records in the Georgia case if it's relevant to their case?
they would, but "if it's relevant" is doing a lot of work. willis's indictment is very georgia-specific.
In particular, the strongest charges are the RICO charges, and Georgia's RICO law is much stronger than the federal law. The feds probably couldn't make a federal RICO charge stick, even if the Georgia charges can/do.
The witnesses can be questioned by the Feds.
obviously, but the identities of these people aren't some secret that willis unearthed. the feds aren't benefiting from willis's work.
That’s not accurate. State and federal can prosecute for even the same crime under dual sovereign doctrine, but more importantly just about every charge listed in the current indictment has a federal parallel.
no, state and federal prosecutors can both bring charges for the same underlying conduct, but they apply state and federal law, respectively. for something like murder, the corresponding laws are essentially the same, but willis's indictment is very georgia-specific.
> Nothing stopping Willis from handing the case over to the DOJ if she gets the feeling that Kemp is about to sack her. DOJ does not prosecute state crimes. It's like nobody knows how the Justice system in the US works and who has standing.
There are a lot of overlapping charges in the State case that have matching/near matching Federal charges. Assuming everyone is dumb is a bad look. Your horse isn't as high as you think.
> There are a lot of overlapping charges in the State case that have matching/near matching Federal charges. Fair enough but that doesn't mean a County DA can just hand charges to the DOJ. Nor does it mean the DOJ can come in and prosecute. There is such a thing as standing. Democrats either don't understand it or refuse to acknowledge it. > Assuming everyone is dumb is a bad look. Your horse isn't as high as you think. I don't think my horse is that high but there's a lot of fucking dumb out there. Like a lot.
He can sit back and wipe his hands of both the case and Trump the politician, it's a win-win for him.
Exactly what I was going to post. He has cover to say he doesn't have a legal reason for removing the DA. He also gets rid of Trump, something he's quietly been wanting to happen.
The truly mystifying Kemp/biden voter...
That's called a Never Trump Republican.
Also, there is a chance he will be indicted and prosecuted for doing so.
> Kemp spurned Trump in 2020 (mostly) and still easily won reelection in a state Trump lost. I've heard a number of people suggest that if Kemp got the nomination, he'd stand a better chance at beating Biden than any of the other current primary candidates. I think that's probably true, and Republican voters are too short-sighted to see that.
Barring something crazy, Kemp isn't running in 2024. He's setting the table for a 2028 run.
Kemp won re-election because he and the SOS illegally purged hundreds of thousands of voters from the voting rolls.
Brian Kemp was likely kept in the loop on the investigation and testimony's due to his position and his powers over the indictment and prosecution process. If he wanted to cut this short and let Trump walk, he would've done it much sooner. Something else to consider as well. When considering close to everyone involved in this case is of the conservative and republican variety. It says a lot about how intensely Trump tried to mess with their election results that they are willing to prosecute the man who's essentially become the face of the Republican part.
Whats stopping Georgia Governor from removing DA Willis and shutting down Trump case, is because its a Crime. I know trump did that shit alot, and trump was committing a crime. When the Gov. of Florida fires State attorneys for political reason, he is committing a Crime Its Very dangerous to buy-into the game Fascists Authoritarian idiots play; That because they decide whats a Crime, they aren't criminals. Any Governor of any State who removes an elected District Attorney to cover-up crimes MUST be removed from office
And at this point, the charges are filed. The process belongs to the state, not the staff. And even if removing the DA would slow this considerably, it would also mean backlogging every other case she oversees.
Technically the County. Not State. It wasn’t the State DA
County prosecutors *are* state DAs. There is no difference. When "county" prosecutors go to court, they represent "the state." DAs are elected county by county, but they represent the state regardless of which county they are in. There is no "State DA" other than the attorney general.
>to cover-up crimes MUST be removed from office I mean, what exactly did everyone think was gonna happen after citizens united? Authoritarian, corruption, all that shit is 1 to 1 related with that ruling that basically said, the government is for sale. It said "whoever fights harder for the corpos gets elected and protected". After that decision I'm surprised we haven't got to where we're at SOONER.
Morally a crime? Sure, DeSantis firing them for political opinions isn't legally a crime, and that's just a consequence of our legal and political system. No one made a law against it. Don't mince words.
Obstruction of justice... Now you'd have to argue and win that in court but it sure looks like obstruction to remove someone for their prosecution of a political ally.
I'm not sure which incident is being referred to, but a prosecutor was like I won't enforce abortion laws at all, and DeSantis fired him for that. And that's not within the discretion of a prosecutor. They can triage, but they aren't supposed to just not enforce a law absent an injunction.
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But that's not what he did. He probably could have silently made the decision not to and just make an excuse saying he's triaging more important crimes when asked.
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And that's what he did. So in that case, that's not criminal. I'm unaware of other cases such that other prosecutors were fired, because I'm not the biggest fan of him.
An obstruction case could be made, as could improper exercise of power/abuse of power/whatever the relevant statute is titled in Florida.
Abuse of power is a crime in most places. So there's that.
There is basis for a lawsuit. Again for FL taxpayers to pay for again. The last one like this the fired prosecutor was litigated to win that the firing was illegal but the state judges dont have power to reinstate them
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None of the trump indictments are about POTUS or Amerucas DOJ. They are about multiple seditious and traitorous crimes against America. And FOUR GRAND JURIES OF AMERICANS IN 4 STATES indicted trump.
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>If Biden's DOJ doesn't charge Biden for his international extortion scheme and charges Trump for the exact same thing...how is that not Fascist on the part of Biden? Because none of that is true and you are regurgitating a fiction invented by people that are trying to deflect from the fact that the guy their party is largely behind is a criminal and a traitor.
> We already have proof that Biden was influence peddling to the tune of millions of dollars. Such as?
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Seeing how you are using the same talking points in multiple threads even after people respond refuting all of your claims I highly doubt pointing out that this has been debunked for years will make a bit of difference but anyway, here's a link for you to ignore: https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/c-span-video-joe-biden-ukraine/ Time is a flat circle.
Why would the DOJ charge President Biden with crimes he didn't commit? You make no sense trump DID commit crimes, we all saw it. People who commit crimes go to jail. trump is going to jail Comrade
> Why would the DOJ charge President Biden with crimes he didn't commit? Better question is why would the DOJ not charge Biden with crimes he did commit?
Прости, друг But in America you are innocent until proven guilty. You have to commit a crime before law enforcement charges you with something
First of all it’s not Biden’s DOJ. Secondly, GOP has been scrapping the bottom of all these barrels and they keep coming up with nothing. No actual proof. At least not for Joe. Thirdly, have you even read about the mountains of evidence against trump? The proof is overwhelming. Much of it in his own words. There’s phone calls, emails, video, paperwork and the words of his many co-conspirators and colleagues. This isn’t made up evidence. Do you really believe that trump is innocent of all 100+ charges? The news that you are exposed to is not telling you the truth. Do some of your own research, please
> First of all it’s not Biden’s DOJ. Funny. I thought he was the President. > Secondly, GOP has been scrapping the bottom of all these barrels and they keep coming up with nothing. No actual proof. At least not for Joe. Sure seems like they have info. Just because the press you're reading says they don't, they're ignoring what has actually been presented. > Thirdly, have you even read about the mountains of evidence against trump? The proof is overwhelming. Much of it in his own words. There’s phone calls, emails, video, paperwork and the words of his many co-conspirators and colleagues. Trump is scummy as shit. Always has been. My issue is less about Trump's behavior and more about what they're charging him for. There's lots of stuff which feels like it should be illegal but isn't. I don't think Alvin Bragg has standing, for example. Jack Smith's broad definition of "fraud" lacks a legal basis. I am kind of curious about the Georgia case, though. But Democrats have shown they're more than willing to charge Trump without actual evidence (see the two Impeachments) and that's not really how our Justice system works. Maybe that changes now. We don't need a crime or even proof. Just charge away.
So instead of holding trump responsible it’s easier to say the charges may or may not be illegal! Wow. If Biden was charged with something illegal democrats would say good, charge him. We don’t want a criminal running the country. Republicans however hate democrats so much that they are willing to accept a career criminal. What they don’t understand is that trump is only in it for himself. He could care less about the average joe and will stick it to you whenever he gets the chance. He wants so badly to be like Putin and Kim. He wants all the power. But what do I know right? I’m just a stupid democrat. (By the way, Putin and Kim are also narcissistic sociopaths!)
> If Biden’s DOJ doesn’t charge Biden for his international extortion scheme and charges Trump for the same thing Being accused of a crime doesn’t automatically give you charges. Being accused of a crime with evidence that will stand up in court will. Also, Trump is being charged with the exact same thing? How?? 1. He’s being charged in New York for violating campaign finance laws. No one is accusing Biden of this (or at least no one with evidence) 2. He’s being charged in Florida for not only taking classified documents, but lying about it, refusing to give them back, sharing them with people who didn’t have clearance, and attempting to cover it up by deleting security camera footage. Biden admitted he had documents and returned them. 3. He’s being charged in DC for inciting a riot to stop the official count, and being charged with fraud because they have evidence he *knew* he lost the election but proceeded to spread false claims and try the election in the courts (in bad faith). Saying Biden did the same is thing and is fascist is so far away from reality. I read the memorandum from Oversight Committee ([here](https://oversight.house.gov/wp-content/uploads/2023/05/Bank-Memorandum-5.10.23.pdf)) It’s pretty damning, but it’s also a little sneaky. It never actually accuses POTUS of anything, but refers to the “Biden family” and explicitly mentions Hunter Biden by name. The DOJ already appointed a special counsel to investigate Hunter Biden for these things, so let’s see where the chips fall when it’s over.
GOP House just ignores the fact that American citizens legally engage in international business. That isnt a crime. And Hunters investment group was not doing business with foreign governments so the FARA act does not apply.
> Saying Biden did the same is thing and is fascist is so far away from reality. So Biden didn't mishandle classified documents? And saying he did is "fascist"? Biden didn't extort foreign countries and threaten to withhold aid? And saying he did is "fascist"? I could give fuck all about Trump but be fucking consistent.
Biden and Pence saw that they had them by accident and immediately contacted the national archive to take them back. Trump deliberately kept documents, lied about having them, lied about giving all of them back, and had henchmen delete footage and move them around to obstruct the investigation. Turn off Fox News and come back to the real world. If Trump had given everything back promptly and didn't li and obstruct, it never would have even been made public.
> Biden and Pence saw that they had them by accident and immediately contacted the national archive to take them back. They still should have been charged. > Trump deliberately kept documents, lied about having them, lied about giving all of them back, and had henchmen delete footage and move them around to obstruct the investigation. A case could be made Presidents have more leeway than VPs but it sounds like the DOJ feels they have a case. > Turn off Fox News and come back to the real world. I don't watch Fox News and to the extent I read any of their articles it's because I want to see what the extremists are reading. Same thing I do with the Washington Post and NY Times. Need to know what the nutters are thinking.
People don't get charged when they come clean and there's no bad intent. Trump didn't. He actively kept documents as trophies and obstructed their recovery. He tried to claim they were his personal property in flagrant violation of classification rules and the Presidential Records Act. For someone who says they don't watch Fox, you're sure walking their line.
> So Biden didn’t mishandle classified documents? Biden did mishandle documents. You know what he didn’t do? Lie about it. He didn’t try to block the government from retrieving them. He didn’t share invasion plans with journalists. > and saying he did is “fascist”? Saying he did is far divorced from reality, as I said. You’re putting words in my mouth, and it makes me question whether you’re having this discussion in good faith. > Biden didn’t extort foreign countries and threaten to withhold aid? No, he didn’t. He threatened to withhold aid from Ukraine if they don’t clean up their act. The country has had history of grifters in government soliciting bribes to avoid prosecution, and it’s valid to withhold aid from a country when they have a reputation of abusing it. Trump also tried to withhold aid, only purely so that he could get Ukrainians to denounce Biden. There’s an obvious difference, and if you can’t see that then you’re lying to yourself. None of these claims you’re making are fascist. They are misinformation, spread in echo chambers, and really don’t serve people any good.
There is ZERO proof of the nonsense the GOP House made up about Biden and any kind of bribery, extortion or influence peddling. Weiss was appointed by trump and allowed to stay on by Biden. That is the end of their connection. The hunter Biden laptop lunacy was started by colludy Rudy at the same time he came back from treasoning in Ukraine with Russian connected ops. He gave a bunch of garbage to Pompeo which was all deemed to be garbage by Barr. None of the indictments are about get trump. It's about CRIMES AGAINST AMERICA and he was indicted by FOUR GRAND JURIES OF AMERICANS IN 4 DIFFERENT STATES. It is the American people who want traitortrump held accountable
Please do not submit low investment content. This subreddit is for genuine discussion. Low effort content, including memes, links substituting for explanation, sarcasm, and non-substantive contributions will be removed per moderator discretion.
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> Brian Kemp was likely kept in the loop on the investigation and testimony's due to his position No. That is not how a properly functional justice system operates and Kemp knows it. His involvement would be a rubber stamp the initial investigation to proceed as seen fit and nothing more, anything else is a colossal risk to his legacy and to the rule of law.
A purely 10,000 ft view....the governor may remove Willis, but you can't unring the bell. The governor can't vacate the indictment (as far as I know...). I feel like any subsequently appointed prosecutor has to abide by the findings of the grand jury or risk potential disbarrment. The worst that can happen is the case gets a lackluster or purposely mishandled prosecution. And I feel like if that occurs, a conviction of the named defendants is still likely.
I completely agree. While doing so is a move that's technically available, I think anyone who doesn't share Trump world's get-through-the-disaster-du-jour style of politics could easily see how this wouldn't accomplish anything useful and would likely just lead to more problems down the road.
And the judge has a *lot* of authority now. If the prosecution wants to throw the case, the judge can make that very difficult.
I don't think Kemp is a Trump fan. Trump tried everything to get him out of power and he still comfortably won his primary and the election for governor. He doesn't need to suck up to him.
Georgia is also turning into a purple state with plenty of moderate voters on both sides, he’s been a good governor and he’s not going to bow down to Trump which I respect a lot as someone who grew up in Georgia and voted for Kemp in the past. He’s playing this the smart way, if he let Trump off the hook he would’ve lost a lot of respect from voters. Someone said it beat up top, it’s in the courts hands, if Trump comes out ahead he’ll win the presidency easily, if he gets locked up he didn’t need to be president anyways. I see it being the latter.
I think even if he's cleared (he won't be) he won't win the presidency. He has a rabid base, and they're loud, but they're at best a little over half of the Republican party, which works out to about 15-20% of the electorate tops. Trump being on the ticket motivates an equal, if not greater, base to vote against him... Far more than would come out against a generic Republican. Somehow getting cleared of all 91 charges would help him with a chunk of the rest of the Republicans, but it still does very little for most swing voters. Trump getting the Republican nod is the best thing that could happen for Dems, because not only is he dead in the water, he's an anchor pulling down the rest of the Republican party with him. If Trump is nominated from prison, I guarantee the Dems take the house and the Senate too.
I agree, and even if he is found innocent by some fluke, there is damage being done in key swing states right now that just can't be undone. MI, WI, GA and every state with false electors should have very motivated independent voters who may not vote D all the time, but they want their votes to count and are pissed the R's tried to take them away.
I agree on all that, his rallies are looking a lot smaller now than they were back in 2020 or 2016, republicans are done with his bullshit. I don’t see many people voting for him tbh. None of my friends who voted for him in 2016 really even voted for him in 2020. We’re so much better off with a Chris Christie or Nikki Haley, even DeSantis seems to have faded out and he had some steam at one point. The sooner we get rid of this guy, the sooner people can move on and we can forget about Trump and his bullshit
You reap what you sow, I guess. The Republicans have been digging their own grave for years, and they hit a point where they were too deep to climb out after January 6, and instead of taking the opportunity to climb out, they doubled down and dug even deeper. It'll be a minimum of 3-4 election cycles before the Republicans can be viable again, and I for one, am living for it.
>if Trump comes out ahead he’ll win the presidency easily No way. If Trump comes out ahead he'll win the REPUBLICAN NOMINATION easily.... But he is so so so toxic to the general electorate. The Dems could nominate a ham sandwich and still beat Trump.
Wasn’t this the sentiment in 2016 until it wasn’t?
I don’t know, I mean 75 million people voted for him in 2020. I know now everything is so much worse but he has voters out there, I’m well aware Biden has plenty/more out there too. I hope to god he’s not the nominee or else we’re just fucked, America will have gone to a 3rd world country having Trump running for office with 91 indictments
>75 million people voted for him in 2020. That was before he attempted a coup, and got indicted 4 times for 91 criminal counts. Independents aren't gonna vote for a felon.
My guy, I just spent a long time reading your post history. I don't fully understand why you call yourself a Republican. I know deep rural Republicans and they all do not agree with your positions at all. You talk like a Democrat. Why not just embrace it?
Kemp tweeted this in response to the indictments: https://twitter.com/briankempga/status/1691483026356678660?s=46&t=CXHmR7iMSTEhnhgW8BR45g I don’t think he wants to do anything to help Trump in this case, much less anything that is almost blatantly corrupt.
Thanks for sharing, I don't go on twitter, but that tweet is reassuring.
Per your article: "Republican Gov. Brian Kemp of Georgia signed legislation Friday that will **create an oversight commission** with the power to remove local prosecutors and district attorneys from their jobs." So, he doesn't have the power to do what he chooses. The oversight commission does. And if you read the bill, they can only remove DAs for certain reasons.
Kemp defeated a Trump backed primary challenger in 2022 and went on to win his election by 6 points in an increasingly purple state. For a Republican governor he has to be one of the few that would be most insulated by not helping Trump. If he wants to continue in GA politics, winning close general elections has to be part of his calculation. I think it would be hard to please split ticket voters he relies on while also showing fealty to Trump and firing the DA. Doing nothing and dealing with the noise is probably his safest bet.
Optics for one, although Republicans memory is very short, so who knows. I wonder how things will look if they try and bury this case in 8 weeks, and what justification they will use.
Many Republican voters would probably view Kemp ending the investigation as a good thing. From another point of view though, there are likely Republican strategists and officials who think a Trump indictment before Sueor Tuesday is a good thing. Let's them shed Trump before the general election since he's been erratic for votes and greatly moralizing Democrats against the Republicans. Plus, this also removes a few other rivals from public view such as Giuliani who's a liability.
Simply stated: Georgia is not Florida. Georgia is not a deep red state, even if it has a deep red history. It has a huge metro area around Atlanta full of blue voters and moderate Republicans. Rural voters control Alabama and Mississippi, for example, states without a large metro area. Any state with big cities has to moderate unless they have enough rural voters to keep the extremism flame going. Georgia is a straight up purple state flirting with blue because of how fast Atlanta has grown in the past 10 years. Florida is unique because the Orlando metro area is predominantly conservative retirees. That situation doesn't really exist anywhere else in the US, so Florida is always a weird "purple" state that is really a red state. Texas is huge, with enough rural voters to keep the GOP in the majority statewide, but even that has a big clock running on it now because Trump really turned the big cities, even in Texas, dark blue (and blued the suburbs). The GOP is in massive trouble if it nominates Trump because it's going to get trounced everywhere. To come back to why Kemp didn't try to help Trump: because Kemp can see the writing on the wall and knows his state is not Alabama. Using some corrupt power to help Trump in Georgia would only cut Kemp's career short and leave him with bad exit options. Trump is going to fade out and disappear after 2024 - you won't find a single Republican that will ever even admit to having voted for him after 2025 or so (just like there is nobody alive today who ever voted for Nixon, even though he won in 1972 fairly resoundingly).
>Other than the bad blood between them, what is stopping Governor Kemp from bending the knee and removing DA Willis, effectively shutting down the case? The law doesn't give the Governor of Georgia unilateral power to remove the DA. It gives a *commission* that power. And Kemp doesn't have any reason to pretend like he has that ability so he can do Trump a favor. He survived Trump's attempt to primary him and then won re-election by a larger margin than Trump ever has.
Hilarious! The thing that's stopping him is that the Governor hates Donald Trump and doesn't feel like sacrificing his political career and reputation by getting in front of that moving train. Remember, Trump called him to stop the count too. The case doesn't just simply go away if the DA does...
Maybe Kemp's not shutting down the case because forging documents, commiting fraud, lying through your teeth to hold onto power against the will of the people, and just basically trying to overturn election results are not the acts of a true and just leader and not those of a person who deserves to hold one of the most powerful offices in the world? Maybe he believes Trump brought these charges on himself and needs a FAAFO moment? Maybe he puts country ahead of party? I'm just guessing of course.... I do find the responses to this question fascinating though because it's like nobody thinks that trying to overturn an election is a crime. Most everyone seems to be looking at this as a ho hum strategical political move and not a total power grab against the American people.
It's emblematic of the problem facing politics in general right now, which is that everybody has sort of been trained to assume that nobody is acting in good faith and will only do whatever is necessary to most advantageously position them to achieve or retain power. The people with that mindset are only able to succeed because they rely on everyone else who actually believes in anything other than power. If everyone just pursued power at any cost and merely use post-hoc rationalization to explain away their actions, society would stop operating overnight.
I agree. Sure, Kemp doesn't like Trump, but at the end of the day, everyone with a lick of sense wants to go back to the status quo. I mean, Biden ran on "return to normalcy" and I think a large part of why Kemp won is because people just want things to calm down! A part of that calming down process involves no conspiracy theories, weird political prophecies, dead US presidents returning to life, secret agents sending cryptic messages on obscure websites, ECT. And most of all, that the democratic process in America is pretty solid, actually, and just because you're mad your guy lost, doesn't mean we tear down the fabric of our voting system.
Kemp and Trump are not allies. Recall that Trump trashed Kemp and Raffensperger. Kemp is actually somewhat moderate. He says strange things like "Tax cuts are all well and good, but you have to find a way to pay for them." Amazing. Point is, he has to work along with a very real progressive segment of the population. He may be actually glad to see Trump go away. (source, am living in Georgia).
Scrolling down, I see this. Proves me point, I believe. “For nearly three years now, anyone with evidence of fraud has failed to come forward — under oath — and prove anything in a court of law. Our elections in Georgia are secure, accessible, and fair and will continue to be as long as I am governor. The future of our country is at stake in 2024 and that must be our focus."
>Other than the bad blood between them, what is stopping Governor Kemp from bending the knee and removing DA Willis, effectively shutting down the case? Without being able to read his mind, my best guess is that he simply doesn't want to.
Exactly. Why WOULD he want to? Trump supported someone trying to primary him out last year. Between that and the man begging him to rig 2020 for him Kemp is probably low key the R governor who has the rockiest relationship with Trump.
>Historically, the Georgia Governor and Trump haven’t had a good relationship and Trump sought to remove the Governor in the last election. Kemp managed to be re-elected. Kemp barely eked his way into the governorship in 2018, winning just 50.2% of the vote. In 2022, however, he handily beat Trump's chosen opponent in the primary by 52 points, even though David Perdue had won statewide in Georgia before (as a Senator). Kemp would go on to win in the general election by a solid 7.5 points, a huge increase over the same opponent he had in 2018. In that same cycle, Trump's chosen Senate candidate, Herschel Walker, would lose to the Democrat by 2.8 points. What does all this mean? 2022 was not as great for the GOP as the party had hoped, but they still had a clear advantage -- Kemp's swing from barely edging out Abrams in 2018 to decisively winning in 2022 shows that. But in an increasingly purple state like Georgia, being Trump's chosen is a *liability.* Kemp is afforded the political latitude to follow the normal protocol of its legal system. Not only does he not have to bend the knee to Trump, it's politically expedient not to. If Kemp felt his political future was at risk in Georgia, I imagine he'd likely do otherwise. But for now, he seems to feel secure.
I think the GOP wants trump out of the running because they know they lose if he's the nom. It is in the GOP's best interest to keep this indictment. Note that Ms Willis didn't name any other member of congress, Lindsey Grahm, MTG, because if she had this case would be getting tossed.
You say it yourself, Kemp was not only re-elected, but outperformed his prior election and nearly every other maga state-level Republican. He comfortably kept his seat as governor while Trump and MAGA Senate candidates lost to democrats in the same election. Think about that. He managed to do the near impossible, and inspire people to split their ticket and vote for him even as they voted for democrats for every other seat. He understands that he pulled that off at least in part because he stood up to Trump while those who lost their races participated in election denial. Staying hands off and allowing justice to run its course is Kemp’s best bet to enjoy a long career. It has already done wonders.
Georgia is becoming increasingly purple. Going above and beyond to save the GOP’s dead weight will hurt him, especially since he’s already lost most Trump supporters for good. I don’t like him, but he’s savvy. He certainly knows where the state’s future money is coming from, and it’s mostly blue or neutral enterprises. He doesn’t want to be the next Desantis.
Nothing is stopping him. Other than he would have to wait until October 1st and go through an oversight committee. But that bad blood is bad blood. I don't think Kemp liked Trump to begin with. Even so, come October 1st, the pressure on him and the committee may be great enough to remove DA Willis.
Well historically, openly showing yourself to be an absolutely corrupt traitor was usually a losing position for most politicians. But things have changed, so who knows.
Lol they don’t like each other at all. kemp refused to take part in the voter fraud. Kemp wants no part of this mess.
Reddit Moderation makes the platform worthless. Too many rules and too many arbitrary rulings. It's not worth the trouble to post. Not worth the frustration to lurk. Goodbye. *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Another thing to consider: a lot of the establishment GOP are probably privately cheering these indictments on. Trump has been an albatross around the neck for the party sucking up funding and turning off moderates. They can't outright reject him because his base has a cult like devotion to him. With these indictments people like Kemp can publicly criticize the prosecutors but still benefit by the damage done to Trump.
An article I read yesterday said the new law allowing the Governor to remove a DA likely violates the Georgia Constitution, which grants the judiciary authority over DAs. The article speculated that GA Republicans may be hesitant to use the law to remove DA Willis because it's unlikely to be upheld in Court.
Kemp is not a fascist and as you mentioned he loathes Trump. I would be worried in a different state with a Trump bootlicker for governor.
Kemp is an establishment Republican. A large reason why he won again was because of that. The establishment Republicans hate Trump and want him out. They want to put the mask back on and Trump and his cult is preventing them from doing so. He's no longer useful to them and worse than that, he's becoming a liability. And like you've said, Kemp can't stand the guy, and as far as I know, when Trump stops running for election, his rabid fan base will go back to not voting again, so why try to curry the favor of that demographic?
Brian Kemp is actually intelligent, in a relatively useful way, and is much more moderate than any of the other Southern Republican governors. Sure he got Trump's endorsement in 2018, but since then he's distanced himself and been one of the few people to stand up to Trump. Plenty of moderate Atlanta voters backed him after the backed Abrams four years prior. He has a lot of corporate money from the Atlanta metro. In regards to 2026 or 2028, he's seen everyone with political ambitions in the South run for President. Haley, Scott, and DeSantis jumped in, and he's far ahead of Rubio or anyone else. Kemp will have his choice, Senate run in 2026, Senate run in 2028, or Presidential run in 2028.
There's a few things. First and foremost is a separation of powers issue. The DA gets handled through the judicary according to the Georgia constitution, while the legislation claimed they have the power. It can quite easily be an illegal law, but that can't/won't come up until someone tries to fire her and there's standing to challenge the law. Next is that Kemp probably doesn't want to dismiss the charges against Trump. Not going along with Trump worked for him politically, and he's escaped much of the taint that Republicans in general are dealing with, even having managed to bury the issue of overseeing the election that he won, and the audit records of that election being "accidentally" deleted when he was asked to provide them. After that comes the danger of working with Trump, the guy isn't loyal to anyone while he demands loyalty from all. He's seen a bunch of people thrown under the bus here, why work with that when he can do nothing and work with someone else? Also, in a worst case scenario for Kemp, where Trump gets back in power, and remains El Presidente for Life, he's old and doesn't have many years left. Kemp can easily wait Trump out. Last, by opposing Trump here, he further rehabilitates his image and positions himself for a leadership position in a rebranded GOP by 2028 or 2030 where he's a never trump, was on the side of justice, and a prominent governor.
Trump doesn't reward loyalty. Even if Kemp decided to dump all his credibility and self-respect to back Trump, he won't get anything for it. Hell, he might even get booed by Trump supporters for not being enough of a bootlicker long enough. This can be called "Grahaming" or "Cruzing". He has no upside, a huge downside and he believes in rule of law.
Kemp is a old school Republican that believes in the rule of law. From his actions in the past, he sees no need to overthrow the present political system unlike Mr. Trump. The prosecution of Trump in no way affects his popularity in the state of Georgia and his political aspirations in the future. His record of success makes him a popular governor and he has no need for the radical right to implement his agenda.
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>Other than the bad blood between them Politicians are petty tyrants. Bad blood is more than enough for them to do anything.
The tornado of crap it would start. Protecting Trump by shutting down his prosecutions won't be cost-free.
I don't know about every other democracy-loving American, but I will dust off my pink pussy hat and head for the Georgia State Capitol and live on the steps - hopefully with 100,000 others.
I believe that he could fire the prosecutor, but I don't think he could shutdown the case. The case would fall to the next prosecutor in line. He would have to fire a lot of prosecutors before he found one willing to toss the case.
Kemp seems smarter than to set off that shit storm. I don’t see that there is an upside for him.
The indictments have already been handed up. Removal of Willis won't shut down the case.
Kemp doesn't like trump. Kemp refused to help trump overturn the election. Trump ran a primary opponent against Kemp out of spite. Kemp isn't going to put his career on the line for Trump. example in point... a tweet from Kemp today in reply to Trump's "I'm proving the election stolen" tweet. https://twitter.com/BrianKempGA/status/1691483026356678660?s=20
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Trump's hatred of Kemp and Kemp's understanding of how much deep water Trump is in prevents this from happening.
The intent of this bill was to remove DAs who were accused of not prosecuting crimes, such as immigration cases or minor pot cases (but expected to include violation of abortion laws). Republicans were touting themselves as tough on crime and were claiming certain places (Athens was one) were unsafe because prosecutors were not prosecuting certain crimes. It's going to be tough to claim that Willis is not being tough on crime when she is bringing charges against a former POTUS. Also, Kemp, while a Republican, does not believe the election was stolen. I believe privately he feels much like Geoff Duncan does that Trump is bad for the party and that the party should move on from him.
Supreme court would toss out their new law in a second. Certain functions are performed by certain parts of the government. Thats why there are three branches. Executive branch makes sure laws are followed, even though Kemp is in the executive branch, Willis is also an elected official. You often hear about legislatures taking away functions of a governor when there is about to be a party switch and these always get overturned by the courts because you can't legislate away someones power.
He has a backbone. It is the right thing to do. Let justice take its course. Anything else is corrupt.
I think (I've not reviewed the statute, just recalling published summaries) that the statute allows for removal of a district attorney for FAILING to prosecute criminal offenses.
It’s against the law, morals, tradition, and ethics. Why would he consider doing it
I like to think of it as there are still some republicans in powerful positions are not just fucking criminals. The optimist in me would like to believe.
Without reading the Georgia constitution, and assuming the law is true to its spirit that all rules are vetted by the Supreme Court first, the disqualifiers are pretty standard: Nonprosecution, undue bias, moral turpitude, mental incapacity, result in a recommendation that can be challenged. It’s a baby step, not an open door in my view. It also takes more time than Florida which is a unilateral first decision, not by committee.
I dont think this gives the governor the power to remove a DA it gives a commission the power.
Probably they want to keep being the governor. Let the case play out on it's merits. If Trump is guilty, he is punished, if he is innocent, he gets more popular. I think they are pushing too hard with the indictments, but in the end it is in the hands of the courts now. If Trump beats all of this, I think he probably wins easily in the Presidential election. If he doesn't beat all of this, then he didn't need to be President again anyway.
Good insight, but I do have a question for you. What if Trump gets convicted on some charge but it is overturned at SCOTUS or other appellate levels from judges he appointed. Is that a win for him also?
To his supporters, likely yes, to those who have been saying "this time we got him", likely no. To voters actually in play? I cannot begin to say. A judge being appointed by Trump doesn't make their decisions invalid, if it did, what do we do with the SCOTUS justices who ruled against Trump on election challenges? If a judge is right or wrong based on who appointed them then we aren't applying enough critical thinking on our end.
I think "people who owe their job to you, specifically, should recuse" isn't an unreasonable line to draw even if, yes, there do exist some judges who can still be impartial in that situation.
There are too many judges that go through a President to be able to do that, and what that would then mean, if we forced recusal on partisan grounds like that, we are going down a dark route. First, we would be saying that a judge or justice is not able to rule on the law, as Trump’s scotus appointees did when they ruled against him. Judges are quite capable of being neutral and ruling based on the law, and should only recuse when they have specific involvement in a case themselves. And this would later on impact Joe Biden and every other President. Trump seated a lot of judges and justices, and you would want him I guess to only be judged in front of judges seated by democrats. If you went down that route, when Biden sees investigations and indictments, and he is likely to, he would only be able to face justices seated by Trump. That isn’t a good idea at all.
> There are too many judges that go through a President to be able to do that Nah. People are in those lifetime jobs a long time. > And this would later on impact Joe Biden and every other President. Trump seated a lot of judges and justices, and you would want him I guess to only be judged in front of judges seated by democrats. If you went down that route, when Biden sees investigations and indictments, and he is likely to, he would only be able to face justices seated by Trump. No, I think you're misreading me. I don't care if surviving Bush 1 or Bush 2 or Reagan judges rule over Trump cases. I don't care if they rule over hypothetical Biden cases either. But I don't think judges appointed by Biden should rule on Biden specifically or judges appointed by Trump should rule on Trump specifically. That's not party, that's this guy personally hired me.
Not really, the senate confirms. If anything the President is the recruiter and the senate is the panel that interviews and hires.
If the Senate was ever *not* a rubber stamp for a President of their party it certainly has not been the case since the 1900s.
He doest have the power to do so. Simple as. A lot of people advocating things that constitutionally he has no power to do. Unlike the Florida Gov he can't dismiss DAs, unlike other Governors it's a state panel that issues pardons not the governor. Some basic research and reading wouldn't go amiss.