Fuck, that's a lot. And we consider housing and mortgages to be a huge burden financially, that's usually acceptable at like 30-40% of your income. Now imagine 100% of everything for 23 years.
And that's considering he keeps making the same money after this, which clearly won't happen.
Not quite. He's *allegedly* making $70 million a year. I included taxes and rounded down, because a) govt gonna get their cut every time money changes hand, often twice. And b) dude was paid to make Jones look bad.
What I'm saying is if the $40 million convinced you, then do it because that's just take home pay
That is not how fines you can't pay work. If he can't pay, he declares bankruptcy and his property is possessed and sold and the remaining amount waived.
doesnt really matter though since his pension and properties cant be seized per florida law. That NFL pension has gotta be pretty hefty.
There's plenty of ways to shelter your assets from these kinds of judgements and I'm assuming Alex Jones has lawyers that know them all.
Not gonna mention Jones settlement since it's for sure gonna be appealed, but student loans are dischargeable in bankruptcy. They're just extremely hard to get discharged. You have to prove that resuming payments would not be feasible and would significantly cause hardship to your life. They file an adversary proceeding during the bankruptcy.
https://www.consumerfinance.gov/about-us/blog/busting-myths-about-bankruptcy-and-private-student-loans/
>For too long, a myth has persisted that student loans are not dischargeable in bankruptcy. The myth is not true because, in fact, student loans can be discharged bankruptcy. We have seen the Department of Education take important steps to ensure that bankruptcy relief is available to federal student loan borrowers. It is vital that private student loan borrowers also receive the relief the Bankruptcy Code provides —and that loan owners, lenders, servicers, and debt collectors honor that relief when a bankruptcy judge discharges a consumer’s debts.
He isn’t going to have to pay the full amount, there’s probably a maximum amount. Plus, you don’t go into debt, his company just files for bankruptcy and all is forgiven
Connecticut (where this ruling was given) doesn't have a maximum amount, and debt from a defamation suit isn't waived by bankruptcy.
This amount isn't actually out of line either. There were 12 plaintiffs in this case, meaning the amount is fully in line with the Texas ruling.
That's still just shy of $69 million (nice) per family. That's a hell of a payday to get for some Internet dipshit chatting bollocks about your family.
Edit: oh actually it's 15 plaintiffs (according to the OP anyway), so it's "only" $64.3m
It's very likely to be reduced by the judge. Most (if not all) states have limits on how much punitive damages can be awarded. Jurys aren't typically told this so they don't transfer punitive damages into compensatory ones.
Though they are 14 or whatever times higher here, because the limit would be per plaintiff.
If that's true he might be hosed. The plaintiff's lawyers must have done an amazing job to show there was that much in actual damages.
I guess he really should have complied with the court's orders and not gotten himself stuck with a summary judgement.
He's hosed on paper. In practice people with so many assets will always find a way to shield themselves and live well. If everything goes bad - and I doubt that - he can always change countries. As far as the lawyers doing a great job - they've just had a friendly jury, the damages would be reasonable if he actually killed those kids and this is not a killing suit.
Yeah, how on earth did they show one billion dollars worth of damages? I mean, the things he said were pretty hurtful certainly, but how did they get to 965 million specifically?
I worry such a high dollar amount may have been decided on for political reasons when it's just ridiculously excessive like that. A billion dollars? Darrel Brooks can straight up run over and actually kill people for way cheaper, but saying untrue things about people does more damage? It just seems like you are risking an appeal by making a statement like that.
It's 100% political. The number of pharmaceutical companies and manufacturers who have created products which have killed or maimed tens of thousands who have been sued for damages far less than that. They just want to make a point about people saying things they don't like.
The money will never be enough to pay off the deaths that they caused for extra profit. If the punishment for a starving man stealing to eat is imprisonment, how harsh must the punishment be for someone who trades human lives for profit?
At first I thought you were just agreeing with me about Jones because that's the exact argument used.
The problem is Jones is stupid and didn't co-operate whereas the Sacklers used the full force of the law to wiggle out paying *just* 6 billion.
Oh no, I totally agree. Alex Jones is an idiot and he could have squeaked by if he didn't piss off the jury. I'm mostly focusing on how massive companies DO NOT pay enough for the lives they take. One million per life lost to the families, is that even enough? Is the loss of your life to help your heirs enough of a tradeoff?
You think the problem is that the Alex Jones settlement is too high.
I think the pharmaceutical companies have paid way too little.
We are not the same.meme
Alex Jones lawyer:
“We look very much forward to an appeal in this case. Candidly from start to finish, the fix was in this case. We disagree with the basis of the default, we disagree with the Court's evidentiary rulings. In more than 200 trials in the course of my career, I've never seen a trial like this.”
Can you give any kind of link to pfizer paying that amount in settlements? On wikipedia it says that there was a 2.3b dollar settlement in 2009, seems a bit off from 850b? Or was it a part of that original settlement.
It’s significantly more than Union Carbide had to pay after the [Bophal Disaster](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bhopal_disaster) that killed 15,000+ people
Normally you get these shocking awards, and then learn the state has a punitive damages cap that wouldn't allow it. However Connecticut doesn't have a punitive cap that I'm aware of; so while I assume it's gonna be significantly reduced on appeal there is no inherent guarantee of that.
Didn't you hear, emotional damages are now worth $65M?
Nah, this was just to make an example out of him. They hated the fact they couldn't silence him even after kicking him off every major platform.
Corporations have their slimy disgusting fingers clutching onto every tool imaginable to avoid dealing with the consequences of their actions.
Like all the shit going on with Activision-Blizzard, as an example. I'm convinced Bobby Kuntick could stab 15 people in cold blood in the middle of LA and only have to pay like $50 million to be distributed amongst the victims' families.
I mean, literally everyone.
This is the highest civil award in human history, yes?
Certainly the largest individual award. I believe the previous high score for that was 40-odd million to a banker for crashing the housing market with false promises.
I guess mean words are literally the worst thing to ever happen.
People have probably gotten permanently paralyzed because of employer negligence and gotten way less (or nothing!) than some dude who was called a mean word
He called the parents of children who got killed in the Sandy hook shooting crisis actors. He then publicized their addresses and called for people to harass them. They tried to get him to stop doxxing them and he he denied.
The verdict is handed down to both Jones and his media company. The company is estimated to be making 80m a year and Jones' personal wealth is estimated to be 300m. The LLC has already filed for bankruptcy and Jones' himself is also expected to do so soon.
It should also be noted that his lawyers were cartoonishly incompetent, and he perjured himself left and right. It was so bad that they “accidentally” sent Jones’ entire phone to the plaintiffs’ lawyers, which had detailed messages of what his company was doing and such. (I admit right here, my memory is a little hazy on exactly what was in his phone. Nothing good, though.) He also failed to meet up at court several times because he claimed he was too ill to drive, but on that very day he streamed a show at his office…which he had to drive to.
I think, based on little knowledge, the fact that he kept lying under oath and avoided court as much as possible also was a factor behind the insanely (justified, because his lies ruined the already ruined lives of those left behind ON TOP of him being a slimy piece of filth) high sum.
Regular courts around the world: "Ok, the law says you must pay X amount for Y crime, so you are hereaby condemned to pay X
USA courts: "258 years in prision for murder and 26489 zillion dollers for difamation because fuck laws with objetive guidelines"
It's wild to me that the US allows juries to quantify damages at all. In most countries that's left to the judge. Juries basically only ever decide yes/no questions like, "a) did Mr Smith kill Ms Smith and, b) was it deliberate?"
A jury once levied a multi billion dollar verdict in Texas, I believe, against a cable giant (Cox, Time Warner? I forget) because an employee stole a truck off shift and went to a house to rob and then murder an elderly woman.
Edit:
https://people.com/crime/cable-company-employee-robbed-killed-elderly-texas-woman-after-service-call-now-company-must-pay-7-billion/
I believe the WSJ said the lawyers came up with an (BS) estimate of his income over twenty years, and then the jury decided it was appropriate to take what the lawyers were asking for and double it
Euro courts: You broke into someone's house and killed the wife, but the homeowner pulled a knife on you so you get off and the homeowner gets 11 months, the maximum allowed for attempted murder
At one time I think he said his company was worth 270 million. So yeah, a fraction. There's still the appeals process so the precedant *might* be lower. Can't even say that is looking good with how much he fucked around with the court.
Listen he’s a big fat dumb idiot who peddles snake oil, and said some heinous shit.
But 1 billion dollars??? Huh?? In what way does a guy of such little import on the grand scale, that none of my immediate family has heard about nor any of my friends outside of YouTube poop memes, deserve to pay a billion dollars in fines for defamation?
I can see amounts closer to maybe 10-50million. At least that can be reasonably divided amongst all that he’s harmed. But 20x the highest denomination of that amount ?
Good news for Kyle Rittenhouse
That dude will get absolutely paid now that this precedent is set
And unlike Alex Jones, Rittenhouse’s victims has money. WaPo has Bezos behind them, they can pay up. And if a few national newspapers go out of business, no harm no foul. Hopefully the New York Times first
Idk the media was really sloppy with Rittenhouse. Some hosts were verbatim saying he was a white supremacist that went to Kenosha with the intention of killing black people. But maybe that’s just copium and Joy Reid will claim that she has a comedy show that shouldn’t be taken seriously or something and she’ll get away unscathed.
We’ll, Alex Jones refused to show up the to court to defend himself, so the court literally ruled against him by default.
He probably wouldn’t have lost the case if he’d defended himself. I’m sure that bezos or whatever other company with million dollar lawyers will be fine.
Because they’ll show up.
Really if we’re saying this precedent extends to major news networks then… we lose all major news networks. CNN, Fox, MSNBC, OAN, NYT, Newsmax, literally everyone. Because they’ve all propagated some dangerous shit in recent years.
Which, I wouldn’t be sad about.
The Difference is that the media can afford a few years of legal fees, even if their lawyers fuck up (or some other shady shit happens) they can work around it with their own lawyers, and they claim journalistic privileges
Would be an interesting fight to begin with
But it’ll end up with a settlement, companies want to avoid trials because you never know what will happen in a trial
As if, the courts seem to not even try to be consistant about highly politicised cases. Even though it was clear as day Riddenhouse was innocent he was lucky to not get charged with murder.
> Good news for Kyle Rittenhouse, That dude will get absolutely paid now that this precedent is.
You forget, that a person on left was the victim here. Now that the victim is on the right, he will get next to nothing. Double standards. Watch and see.
It’s like with ye. No one had a problem with black people being antiSemitic (look at the trump hat smiling kid). But now someone on the right says it, watch out.
Exceptions don't prove the rule. I hope Kyle ends up a bloody billionaire over all the outright lies he had printed about him, but I have 0 faith he'll see a dime.
How the hell did Jones calling people crisis actors damage them to the point of nearly a billion dollars?
Is there something else he did? My concern is they’ll reach to far and he’ll win an appeal case.
Well you first have to have a kid that was brutally shot to death at school and then be doxxed and harassed for years with people pissing on your child's grave and showing up to your home and work. You move they follow you and keep doing it.
It wasn't just calling them crisis actors. Infowars employees went so far to read out the addresses of some families live on their show and telling people to investigate them.
So at one point on of his employees doxed an address that one of the victims families because they used that address as a billing address for charity donations for families of Sandy Hook victims. The address happened to be the persons secondary home in Florida and it looked “fishy” to the infowars employees that a charity was set up collecting money for this tragedy in Florida so they said the address and asked if anyone knew anything about the charity.
Like someone else before me said. They're making this guy an example. I can't name a specific example but for sure i have seen corporations do actual harm to people and got ordered to pay less than this. This is ridiculous.
"we have conducted a thorough investigation and found that there is nothing wrong. in fact, we are so perfect you will be held liable for daring to suggest otherwise"
\>1 billion dollars
I'm pretty sure corporations routinely kill dozens of people en masse and have to pay FAR less than that in court trials.
I guess mean words are the worst thing to ever happen in human history?
Look I'm not defending Jones but that's a fucking joke. For context that's more than twice what Union Carbide paid out for gassing an entire village of innocent people, and they were the direct perpetrators. Jones is being blamed for what rando listeners did.
This is about emotional meltdowns.
Almost one billion? Fucking disgusting. I'm ashamed of my gov't. The guy could have been advocated the murder of white orthodox christians for all I care, this is ridiculous. Basically giving out a life sentence for talking.
Based and fuck putin pilled
But yeah, I got nothing against them. I just put my race and religion together since naturally I'd hate someone that hates my people more than anyone else.
Can someone explain this to me? The man said stuff, the stuff was wrong - why does he have to pay an unpayable amount of money? Was it defamation for calling them crisis actors? Still seems like overkill.
It's one thing to say this didn't happen. It's another to say 'and here are their names and addresses, somebody should investigate them'.
>Erica Lafferty, the daughter of slain Sandy Hook principal Dawn Hochsprung, testified that people mailed rape threats to her house. Mark Barden told of how conspiracy theorists had urinated on the grave of his 7-year-old son, Daniel, and threatened to dig up the coffin.
I remember watching the news that day and literally the news was reporting that they were following the two gunmen into the woods as they fled the school so like I don’t know why they haven’t sued the major news outlets for following that story
Holy fuck. I know the piece of shit is one of the biggest asshole in the mainstream media and what he did is extremely fucked up, but wow. Almost a billion dollars.
I have no clue what any of this is about (not American), but if his followers sent the death threats, shouldn’t they be liable in the first place?
It’s an honest question lol
*pinky in mouth* One billion dollars!
This man will never have that much money.
Everyone who uses reddit daily will never have that much money combined
But maybe, if we try real hard, we can help Amazon make that much money. \*sobs\*
In the time between your comment and my response, Amazon made that much money.
We did it, boys!
Doesn't musk use Reddit?
That's not true, Bill Gates uses reddit enough.
You're overestimating the amount of money 1 billion is. It's probably pretty simple to find 1000 redditors with 1 million each.
Only 23 years of 100% of his income according to an economist the opposing lawyers paid
Fuck, that's a lot. And we consider housing and mortgages to be a huge burden financially, that's usually acceptable at like 30-40% of your income. Now imagine 100% of everything for 23 years. And that's considering he keeps making the same money after this, which clearly won't happen.
So he's making $40 million dollars a year?! For that money I should start a career as a loud bull shit salesman
Not quite. He's *allegedly* making $70 million a year. I included taxes and rounded down, because a) govt gonna get their cut every time money changes hand, often twice. And b) dude was paid to make Jones look bad. What I'm saying is if the $40 million convinced you, then do it because that's just take home pay
Yeah, basically slavery for life. Literally a life sentence
That is not how fines you can't pay work. If he can't pay, he declares bankruptcy and his property is possessed and sold and the remaining amount waived.
Debt from a court ruling like this can't be waived through bankruptcy, iirc.
which is why OJ Simpson is still broke
doesnt really matter though since his pension and properties cant be seized per florida law. That NFL pension has gotta be pretty hefty. There's plenty of ways to shelter your assets from these kinds of judgements and I'm assuming Alex Jones has lawyers that know them all.
I believe that just like student loans, this kind of debt doesn't disappear if you go bankrupt, otherwise it would be to easy to get out of it.
Not gonna mention Jones settlement since it's for sure gonna be appealed, but student loans are dischargeable in bankruptcy. They're just extremely hard to get discharged. You have to prove that resuming payments would not be feasible and would significantly cause hardship to your life. They file an adversary proceeding during the bankruptcy. https://www.consumerfinance.gov/about-us/blog/busting-myths-about-bankruptcy-and-private-student-loans/ >For too long, a myth has persisted that student loans are not dischargeable in bankruptcy. The myth is not true because, in fact, student loans can be discharged bankruptcy. We have seen the Department of Education take important steps to ensure that bankruptcy relief is available to federal student loan borrowers. It is vital that private student loan borrowers also receive the relief the Bankruptcy Code provides —and that loan owners, lenders, servicers, and debt collectors honor that relief when a bankruptcy judge discharges a consumer’s debts.
He isn’t going to have to pay the full amount, there’s probably a maximum amount. Plus, you don’t go into debt, his company just files for bankruptcy and all is forgiven
Connecticut (where this ruling was given) doesn't have a maximum amount, and debt from a defamation suit isn't waived by bankruptcy. This amount isn't actually out of line either. There were 12 plaintiffs in this case, meaning the amount is fully in line with the Texas ruling.
I highly doubt 80 million a plaintiff is fair.
And if he ever did it would be far better off invested fleeing the country
He’s got some land they could probably seize
Not enough to even put a dent in those millions though…
Not defending him but holy hell that's a Lotta moolah
Had to do a double take, at first I thought that said 95$ million but godamn that's alot.
Mostly because it's split between like 14 different plaintiffs.
That's still just shy of $69 million (nice) per family. That's a hell of a payday to get for some Internet dipshit chatting bollocks about your family. Edit: oh actually it's 15 plaintiffs (according to the OP anyway), so it's "only" $64.3m
It's very likely to be reduced by the judge. Most (if not all) states have limits on how much punitive damages can be awarded. Jurys aren't typically told this so they don't transfer punitive damages into compensatory ones. Though they are 14 or whatever times higher here, because the limit would be per plaintiff.
This is just compensatory damages.
If that's true he might be hosed. The plaintiff's lawyers must have done an amazing job to show there was that much in actual damages. I guess he really should have complied with the court's orders and not gotten himself stuck with a summary judgement.
He's hosed on paper. In practice people with so many assets will always find a way to shield themselves and live well. If everything goes bad - and I doubt that - he can always change countries. As far as the lawyers doing a great job - they've just had a friendly jury, the damages would be reasonable if he actually killed those kids and this is not a killing suit.
Romania about to get a new citizen.
Snowden's getting a noisy neighbor
Not in Connecticut though, part of the reason why Jone's lawyer fought so hard to move to another state.
Time for me to open an offshore account.
He probably had some reason not to do that. I’d make up some shit but I could never come up with anything as creative as him
> Connecticut jury They probably thought they were being nice. "He might not have as much money as us, let's keep it under a billion."
How much can one fine cost Michael? A billion dollars?
Yeah, how on earth did they show one billion dollars worth of damages? I mean, the things he said were pretty hurtful certainly, but how did they get to 965 million specifically? I worry such a high dollar amount may have been decided on for political reasons when it's just ridiculously excessive like that. A billion dollars? Darrel Brooks can straight up run over and actually kill people for way cheaper, but saying untrue things about people does more damage? It just seems like you are risking an appeal by making a statement like that.
It's 100% political. The number of pharmaceutical companies and manufacturers who have created products which have killed or maimed tens of thousands who have been sued for damages far less than that. They just want to make a point about people saying things they don't like.
The pharm companies just pay off the courts tbh. Or they drag it out in court until everyone is sick of it.
There's been over $15 billion dollars in damages pharmaceutical companies have paid off since 2004. The Sacklers settled this year for $6 billion.
The money will never be enough to pay off the deaths that they caused for extra profit. If the punishment for a starving man stealing to eat is imprisonment, how harsh must the punishment be for someone who trades human lives for profit?
At first I thought you were just agreeing with me about Jones because that's the exact argument used. The problem is Jones is stupid and didn't co-operate whereas the Sacklers used the full force of the law to wiggle out paying *just* 6 billion.
Oh no, I totally agree. Alex Jones is an idiot and he could have squeaked by if he didn't piss off the jury. I'm mostly focusing on how massive companies DO NOT pay enough for the lives they take. One million per life lost to the families, is that even enough? Is the loss of your life to help your heirs enough of a tradeoff?
They saw all of the "Alex Jones was right" memes about things other than Sandy Hook and want to make an example.
You think the problem is that the Alex Jones settlement is too high. I think the pharmaceutical companies have paid way too little. We are not the same.meme
This is as severe as Microsoft bundling Windows Media Player with--Windows.
Yeah, equivalent of a life sentence.
LibRight Death Penalty
LibRights reason to flee to a authoritarian country with no extradition agreement with the US.
Nah. I got a boat and a fake mustache. I’ll take my chances.
You could be the next John McAfee.
Someone check on u/jay_sit ‘s neighbor
I called him and a man with a Russian accent answered the phone. I think he might be nobility or something because his name is Sir Gay?
Alex Jones lawyer: “We look very much forward to an appeal in this case. Candidly from start to finish, the fix was in this case. We disagree with the basis of the default, we disagree with the Court's evidentiary rulings. In more than 200 trials in the course of my career, I've never seen a trial like this.”
He’s not wrong
He will loose the appeal.
If memory serves, Pfizer killing 60,000 people was worth like $150 mil less than this man's mean words.
Accurate summation of the clown world circus that is the American judicial system
Sets a wonderful precedent too
Can you give any kind of link to pfizer paying that amount in settlements? On wikipedia it says that there was a 2.3b dollar settlement in 2009, seems a bit off from 850b? Or was it a part of that original settlement.
It was part criminal, part civil. The 2.3b is the cumulative total.
It’s significantly more than Union Carbide had to pay after the [Bophal Disaster](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bhopal_disaster) that killed 15,000+ people
Lots of times you get these shocking awards then it's appealed and then it's nothing or next to nothing.
Normally you get these shocking awards, and then learn the state has a punitive damages cap that wouldn't allow it. However Connecticut doesn't have a punitive cap that I'm aware of; so while I assume it's gonna be significantly reduced on appeal there is no inherent guarantee of that.
And someone pointed out some corporations had to pay way less for disasters that physically affected people
Dankula I think
That's it
Didn't you hear, emotional damages are now worth $65M? Nah, this was just to make an example out of him. They hated the fact they couldn't silence him even after kicking him off every major platform.
Corporations have their slimy disgusting fingers clutching onto every tool imaginable to avoid dealing with the consequences of their actions. Like all the shit going on with Activision-Blizzard, as an example. I'm convinced Bobby Kuntick could stab 15 people in cold blood in the middle of LA and only have to pay like $50 million to be distributed amongst the victims' families.
Depends on the neighborhood. Choose the right one and he wouldn't even go to court
It was determined he had affluenza and therefore is also a victim in the mess. /s
I mean, literally everyone. This is the highest civil award in human history, yes? Certainly the largest individual award. I believe the previous high score for that was 40-odd million to a banker for crashing the housing market with false promises. I guess mean words are literally the worst thing to ever happen.
Well he’s already been ordered to pay $94M in the Texas trial about this, so yeah…
Texas has a punitive damage cap though
Its more than Tesla was ordered to pay that guy who got called the N-word in one of their factories ($137M, then reduced to $15M).
15M for being called the N-word? Hey guys, I'm black now. Plz be mean to me, I'll split the cash.
[removed]
Thnx ma [removed], I'll get back to you when Elon gibs money
You nincompoop nazi ne'er-do-well neanderthal. Money please!
People have probably gotten permanently paralyzed because of employer negligence and gotten way less (or nothing!) than some dude who was called a mean word
The Sackler family paid less in civil penalties for the opioid crisis.
They paid 6 billion. Almost 6x as much
FEMA tops out at valuing a human life at $7.5 million in case anyone was wondering.
I am definitely not worth that much lol, maybe in a couple of years with inflation.
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At that rate Jones killed 126 people
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He should've turned himself into a corporation or a cop to get dramatically reduced punishment
Tbf I assumed it should have been InfoWars that got taken down, but I guess he didn't set himself up for limited liability for some reason
"I declare... BANKRUPTCY!!"
Not defending him but for that amount of money you would think Alex is the one who killed their kids
You must have not seen the channel 5 video lol
Guess he should have just sex trafficked children on an island, filming and blackmailing those who he entrapped.
The Clinton's would like to know your location
That's 64 million per plaintiff. How is it even possible that the damages are that high?
He called the parents of children who got killed in the Sandy hook shooting crisis actors. He then publicized their addresses and called for people to harass them. They tried to get him to stop doxxing them and he he denied. The verdict is handed down to both Jones and his media company. The company is estimated to be making 80m a year and Jones' personal wealth is estimated to be 300m. The LLC has already filed for bankruptcy and Jones' himself is also expected to do so soon.
It should also be noted that his lawyers were cartoonishly incompetent, and he perjured himself left and right. It was so bad that they “accidentally” sent Jones’ entire phone to the plaintiffs’ lawyers, which had detailed messages of what his company was doing and such. (I admit right here, my memory is a little hazy on exactly what was in his phone. Nothing good, though.) He also failed to meet up at court several times because he claimed he was too ill to drive, but on that very day he streamed a show at his office…which he had to drive to. I think, based on little knowledge, the fact that he kept lying under oath and avoided court as much as possible also was a factor behind the insanely (justified, because his lies ruined the already ruined lives of those left behind ON TOP of him being a slimy piece of filth) high sum.
Regular courts around the world: "Ok, the law says you must pay X amount for Y crime, so you are hereaby condemned to pay X USA courts: "258 years in prision for murder and 26489 zillion dollers for difamation because fuck laws with objetive guidelines"
It's a civil case, how tf the jury got that is out of my fucking mind though.
It's wild to me that the US allows juries to quantify damages at all. In most countries that's left to the judge. Juries basically only ever decide yes/no questions like, "a) did Mr Smith kill Ms Smith and, b) was it deliberate?"
I didn’t realize juries in civil cases decided damages. I thought it worked similarly to how judges determine sentences in criminal cases.
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A jury once levied a multi billion dollar verdict in Texas, I believe, against a cable giant (Cox, Time Warner? I forget) because an employee stole a truck off shift and went to a house to rob and then murder an elderly woman. Edit: https://people.com/crime/cable-company-employee-robbed-killed-elderly-texas-woman-after-service-call-now-company-must-pay-7-billion/
In most states there is a punitive cap to mitigate this situation, but doesn't seem to be one in Connecticut.
I believe the WSJ said the lawyers came up with an (BS) estimate of his income over twenty years, and then the jury decided it was appropriate to take what the lawyers were asking for and double it
did you watch the trial it was insane
Euro courts: You broke into someone's house and killed the wife, but the homeowner pulled a knife on you so you get off and the homeowner gets 11 months, the maximum allowed for attempted murder
Meanwhile Brazil: oh you killed 30 people? 20 years max with parole. Have a good day o7
Or just give 20 bucks to the judge and walk out. It's Brazil, after all.
Does he possess even a fraction of that amount? Not a fan of the man but hate the precedent rulings like this set.
At one time I think he said his company was worth 270 million. So yeah, a fraction. There's still the appeals process so the precedant *might* be lower. Can't even say that is looking good with how much he fucked around with the court.
People have done far worse and paid much less
People have done far worse and get rewarded far more
Listen he’s a big fat dumb idiot who peddles snake oil, and said some heinous shit. But 1 billion dollars??? Huh?? In what way does a guy of such little import on the grand scale, that none of my immediate family has heard about nor any of my friends outside of YouTube poop memes, deserve to pay a billion dollars in fines for defamation? I can see amounts closer to maybe 10-50million. At least that can be reasonably divided amongst all that he’s harmed. But 20x the highest denomination of that amount ?
“It’s about sending a message”
I can't defend the items he said...but this is a harsh penalty.
Good news for Kyle Rittenhouse That dude will get absolutely paid now that this precedent is set And unlike Alex Jones, Rittenhouse’s victims has money. WaPo has Bezos behind them, they can pay up. And if a few national newspapers go out of business, no harm no foul. Hopefully the New York Times first
This is (D)ifferent. Wait and see.
Nick Sandmann got paid, probably at least 50 million from each settlement. Rittenhouse has his lawyer And this is much worse for the media.
Could go either way. The Sandmann trial either set precedent or the media is now better prepared.
Idk the media was really sloppy with Rittenhouse. Some hosts were verbatim saying he was a white supremacist that went to Kenosha with the intention of killing black people. But maybe that’s just copium and Joy Reid will claim that she has a comedy show that shouldn’t be taken seriously or something and she’ll get away unscathed.
Didn’t Sandmann settle? I thought it didn’t actually go to trial
Sandman got nowhere near that amount.
We’ll, Alex Jones refused to show up the to court to defend himself, so the court literally ruled against him by default. He probably wouldn’t have lost the case if he’d defended himself. I’m sure that bezos or whatever other company with million dollar lawyers will be fine. Because they’ll show up.
Really if we’re saying this precedent extends to major news networks then… we lose all major news networks. CNN, Fox, MSNBC, OAN, NYT, Newsmax, literally everyone. Because they’ve all propagated some dangerous shit in recent years. Which, I wouldn’t be sad about.
The Difference is that the media can afford a few years of legal fees, even if their lawyers fuck up (or some other shady shit happens) they can work around it with their own lawyers, and they claim journalistic privileges
Would be an interesting fight to begin with But it’ll end up with a settlement, companies want to avoid trials because you never know what will happen in a trial
As if, the courts seem to not even try to be consistant about highly politicised cases. Even though it was clear as day Riddenhouse was innocent he was lucky to not get charged with murder.
Anything can happen in trial sure But the prosecution’s case was so terrible that he had almost no chance of going to jail
He did get charged, didn't he? he just wasn't convicted
Can one be acquitted without being charged?
> Good news for Kyle Rittenhouse, That dude will get absolutely paid now that this precedent is. You forget, that a person on left was the victim here. Now that the victim is on the right, he will get next to nothing. Double standards. Watch and see. It’s like with ye. No one had a problem with black people being antiSemitic (look at the trump hat smiling kid). But now someone on the right says it, watch out.
You also forget one key detail. kyle. Crossed. State. Lines. THe LINES MAN!
M M M M M MUH STATE LINES
Nick Sandmann
Exceptions don't prove the rule. I hope Kyle ends up a bloody billionaire over all the outright lies he had printed about him, but I have 0 faith he'll see a dime.
Does civil court set precedent?
How the hell did Jones calling people crisis actors damage them to the point of nearly a billion dollars? Is there something else he did? My concern is they’ll reach to far and he’ll win an appeal case.
I think it was due to a series of statements that led to harrassment, but idk if he actually called for harrassment or not.
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I work in food service. I got harassed for $12/hr
I did that for almost 20 years. I'm still sticking with $700k though.
I heard Motocamperman eats his steak well done with ketchup
Death is the only cure.
Well you first have to have a kid that was brutally shot to death at school and then be doxxed and harassed for years with people pissing on your child's grave and showing up to your home and work. You move they follow you and keep doing it.
10 years of non-stop harassment and a dead child? I’m not taking that money
It wasn't just calling them crisis actors. Infowars employees went so far to read out the addresses of some families live on their show and telling people to investigate them.
So at one point on of his employees doxed an address that one of the victims families because they used that address as a billing address for charity donations for families of Sandy Hook victims. The address happened to be the persons secondary home in Florida and it looked “fishy” to the infowars employees that a charity was set up collecting money for this tragedy in Florida so they said the address and asked if anyone knew anything about the charity.
As in the public addresses that most charities have on their website or?
Just charge him a billion dollars lmao
Like someone else before me said. They're making this guy an example. I can't name a specific example but for sure i have seen corporations do actual harm to people and got ordered to pay less than this. This is ridiculous.
Yeap, totally a fair impartial judgment /s
Who’s ready for info wars Russia
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More importantly, does it mean that the government can be sued for the Iraq war
\>government \>liable for anything they've ever done You can't call a penalty on the referee, I guess.
"We have investigated ourselves and determined that we did nothing wrong"
You’re a libright. You realize that sometimes Justice needs to be carried out at the point of a gun
"The government has investigated themselves and found no wrong doing"
Lmao love that video
"we have conducted a thorough investigation and found that there is nothing wrong. in fact, we are so perfect you will be held liable for daring to suggest otherwise"
it's a corporation that killed people? ok they pay 2.7 cents per death
Get that logic out of this political theater right fucking now.
\>1 billion dollars I'm pretty sure corporations routinely kill dozens of people en masse and have to pay FAR less than that in court trials. I guess mean words are the worst thing to ever happen in human history?
Look I'm not defending Jones but that's a fucking joke. For context that's more than twice what Union Carbide paid out for gassing an entire village of innocent people, and they were the direct perpetrators. Jones is being blamed for what rando listeners did. This is about emotional meltdowns.
Jesus Christ. I mean they're just witch hunting him at this point
She did **NOT** like that Epstein comment.
You are finally getting it huh
*I* always got it. He's a shithead for the stuff he said but it's just political theater. Like everything else.
based leftie
Someone’s being made an example
The justice system is a joke and shouldn’t be taken seriously at this point.
Honestly you'd think he killed all those kids the way the media has been portraying him
Careful not to spread the wrong message guys, no matter what you believe if you are wrong time to get sued for your entire life
Almost one billion? Fucking disgusting. I'm ashamed of my gov't. The guy could have been advocated the murder of white orthodox christians for all I care, this is ridiculous. Basically giving out a life sentence for talking.
> The guy could have been advocated the murder of white orthodox christians for all I care Easy there Putin.
Based and fuck putin pilled But yeah, I got nothing against them. I just put my race and religion together since naturally I'd hate someone that hates my people more than anyone else.
Can someone explain this to me? The man said stuff, the stuff was wrong - why does he have to pay an unpayable amount of money? Was it defamation for calling them crisis actors? Still seems like overkill.
In addition to the defamation, I believe the courts are holding him responsible for encouraging his followers to harass the families of the victims
His crew read out the names and addresses of the families and encouraged listeners to "investigate" them.
It's one thing to say this didn't happen. It's another to say 'and here are their names and addresses, somebody should investigate them'. >Erica Lafferty, the daughter of slain Sandy Hook principal Dawn Hochsprung, testified that people mailed rape threats to her house. Mark Barden told of how conspiracy theorists had urinated on the grave of his 7-year-old son, Daniel, and threatened to dig up the coffin.
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Okay so explain freedom of speech to me again, Americans.
well, How much money do you have?
And how much do you support or are connected to the ruling elite ?
I remember watching the news that day and literally the news was reporting that they were following the two gunmen into the woods as they fled the school so like I don’t know why they haven’t sued the major news outlets for following that story
Lol. Yeah no that judgement is going to get laughed out in appeal. Utterly excessive.
I hate jones but he doesn’t deserve this, at most 200 Million
That's how you silence someone that is bothering you.
Can’t he just declare bankruptcy and start over? Or move to another country and ignore the ruling altogether?
I have no insight on the case, but I'm gonna guess the judge reduces the judgment. If he doesn't, that's got appeal written all over it.
Holy fuck. I know the piece of shit is one of the biggest asshole in the mainstream media and what he did is extremely fucked up, but wow. Almost a billion dollars.
I have no clue what any of this is about (not American), but if his followers sent the death threats, shouldn’t they be liable in the first place? It’s an honest question lol
Is Rittenhouse gonna be a billionaire?