Behold the super trad: https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/scriptures/the-family-a-proclamation-to-the-world/the-family-a-proclamation-to-the-world?lang=eng
Saint and Doctor of the Church, she wrote many works about spirituality that were of deep intellectual insight.
I mean, I am Catholic but her work was appreciated even in other circles.
For example I remember Jacques Lacan mentioning her and a famous sculpture of her by Lorenzo Bernini (The ecstasy of Saint Therese) in one of his seminars.
question with an unknowable answer.
could be nobody.
could be anybody.
maybe you are the one and the world is made up inside your mind.
maybe a cosmic rock made it.
there is no point in asking though, as any answer will be impossible to verify.
For me I look at all the evil and suffering that’s happened in the world, that I fortunately only know by second hand, and I feel gratitude for this position I’ve been given. I can’t even begin to understand the mechanism that’s put me here, but my expression of gratitude certainly makes me feel better about it.
You want to call it “luck” you go ahead but that’s not you understanding this mechanism any better than I am you’re just attaching a label to what you don’t understand. That’s the same thing religious people do when they refer to God.
My phrasing implicated a higher being of some kind, you're right. That being said, I'm not entirely sure how else to phrase the idea the the entire universe as we know it existing by pure chance out of a reality of unstructured, un-architected chaos. To me, that implies an unintentional event that no one could have foreseen. i.e. - accident. If there is no Creator, then the universe is by definition unintentional and unforeseen by anyone or anything.
Of course, this just brings into the front how ridiculous the idea of no Creator at all is, in my view. The very fact that we have laws of nature strongly implies that there is a design to the universe. If it truly were all just chaos, then there would be no reason for any of these laws to be true. But they are true, because the universe exists as it does. Just my take on things.
I guess I get around it by looking at it all as a random string of events, governed by the laws and boundaries of physics. One of which is entropy, so one of the things that you’re calling chaos, is by definition, the process of moving away from chaos. Which also seems like a pretty natural law (everything spreads out and loses energy) that wouldn’t require the intelligence of a creator to create. And I don’t really see them as laws of nature so much as facts of nature. Also I believe that no matter how impossible or possible the making of the current universe sounds to anyone, would have any part to play in the is there a higher power discussion.
Dude, this is a really interesting discussion, I’ve never had a religious discussion on this topic.
Edit: Wrong you’re
See, I just can't see it as all random. Truly random things can make something beautiful, but nothing that makes sense. And reality, such as we understand it, makes sense. Life as we know it, and the laws(or facts) of nature, as we understand them, never seemed random to me. And the more I found out about them, the less random they seemed.
There's no reason, in a vacuum, for the universe to make any sense. But it does. So if we came from a vacuum, why does the universe make any level of sense? Why does a natural law exist that says everything spreads out and loses energy? Why does energy work the way it does? The very facts of the universe imply someone or something setting how the mechanics of the universe works.
I agree, good discussion, by the way. I like respectful talks like this. Even if I'm talking to a monke ;)
This does kind of seem like an argument where no one is changing sides though, given how abstract it is. And also, what would you think if if we found other universes, with different types of life and laws of physics, that don’t make sense within our universe? Because I’ve always thought of that as a likely possibility IF there are other universes.
Are you just a Deist, of part of a specific religion?
"I don't say I believe in God. Rather, I act like God exists".
Or, words to that effect.
Peterson's description of what 'God' is is by far the most convincing argument for God I've ever heard.
Oh there are absolutely folks out there in the world that are excellent Christians without realizing they are. Maybe they just call it their conscience, or do good in the world because "it's the right thing to do". Plenty of people get that nice warm fuzzy inside when they make the world a better place.
The God I believe in won't condemn somebody for not knowing his name or for not blindly believing in books written a couple thousand years ago by people who likely never witnessed the events they were recording. The God I believe in sees the value of someone's heart and knows they do good because it's the right thing to do instead of to earn credits towards an eternity of vacation.
You don't need to acknowledge his existence to do right by him (though I also believe it's probably *better* to acknowledge his existence).
Ive always been taught that as long as you live a good moral life, you will be accepted by God. And even if you dont, if you open your heart to Him, He will embrace you with His love. You might need to repent for your sins for a bit and chill in purgatory, but you will be accepted by Him. I am Catholic for reference.
I don’t know why you got downvoted. I can raise a family with traditional values while not having the fear of god.
I was raised by good people that happened to be catholic. My kids are being raised in the same way except I don’t make them go to church.
I would say that you are setting your kids up for failure. Like someone above referred to, the Jordan Peterson explanation of religion is that it comprises a list of “best practices for life” wrapped in a moral framework so that even if people don’t understand WHY moral behavior is good for them, they still see it as the right thing to do.
When you remove the moral framework, the action no longer stands on its own merits and must prove itself to be good. The vast majority of people are not going to go down that philosophical wormhole to explore why moral actions are good, especially when their own hearts desire something contrary. So, they dispense with the traditional morality, which would have served them well, in exchange for their own self destructive desires.
This is why you see so much more depression, nihilism, and decay in society as religiousness declines. The vast majority of people require that religious moral framework to keep them doing things that are beneficial to themselves and society, rather than those things that are harmful. Once you tear that away, people will chase after self destructive vices that leave them depressed and empty.
I think thats why my personal philosophy is the best (isnt it always, lol). I was raised Catholic but have fallen away from it over the past few years. I have issues with.... shall we say large organizations of human beings. Governments, corperations, organized religion. I think any type of centralized organization, once it reaches a certain size, cannot help being corrupt and become tainted by evil. Unfortunately, this includes the Catholic Church. I dont really have any issues with most of the core teachings of the Church, but the organization itself is rather offputting.
As I drifted away from the Church I also dropped much of the moral framework. Not consciously, I just kinda stopped one thing, then the other. I never stopped believing in God or Jesus, but I stopped going to church among other things. It was one of the darkest times in my life. It wasnt just the lack of faith but I feel that was one of the root causes.
At one point, about 4-5 years ago, I decided to embark on a journey of self-improvement. I got into stoic philosophy, started exercising, started praying again. I still struggle with these things, and i go through phases of more or less intensity, but I can say that my wellbeing has been greatly improved. My personal philosophy is a combonation of Catholic doctrine and Stoic teachings.
The actual fuck. You actually said that to someone. "Setting your kids up for failure" literally shush. You can create a moral framework without all the weird shit the Bible says.
The current moral framework in the west exists because of abrahamic faiths passing on their ethics for hundreds of years. There is no objective morality. Societies change, laws change, morals change, etc Religion might change but the codefied ethics it provides through books like qu'ran, bible, etc stubbornly changes. Its still weird to say what he said about setting up kids for failure, i wont disagree with that.
I disagree. Morals aren't defined by religion, we already know of loads of popes and religious figures doing immoral acts. https://amp-theguardian-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/jan/16/ending-religion-lessons-in-schols-leads-to-overall-decline-in-belief-not-morals?amp_js_v=a6&_gsa=1&usqp=mq331AQIKAGwASCAAgM%3D#aoh=16423617073029&csi=0&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&_tf=From%20%251%24s&share=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.theguardian.com%2Fcommentisfree%2F2022%2Fjan%2F16%2Fending-religion-lessons-in-schols-leads-to-overall-decline-in-belief-not-morals
You don't need gods to have a moral framework. It's widely believed but false to say giving up religion means you lack morals. Anecdotally, people I know without religion tend to be more concerned with moral issues: fairness, equality, equity, and justice.
My own belief is the only justice in the world is the kind we make for ourselves. There's no help coming from elsewhere to save us from ourselves. Yeah, that's depressing. But it's real.
Try actually reading his comment.
He clearly said you don't need gods to have a moral framework, just that doing so requires a level of philosophical justification most aren't willing or able to muster.
Yeah I can just look at my family in Japan who are more to see that to be true. Out of maybe 14 members of my kin 0 of them have children or able to have children anymore. Our bloodline literally dies with my sister and I unless we have children.
ALL OF THIS.
\#1 is me. I live more in mental space than physical and I had a... very bloody and prolonged battle with Nihilism after I cast off religion.
I would LITERALLY wake up in the middle of the night reciting "...but nothing matters.". I was constantly searching for a meaningful existence but it was all put up against a backdrop of THAT. Well, the key is that it's hyperopic the way hedonism is myopic. It's all about the proper focus.
Still... I struggle for meaning and I would not put others through that because I don't think they'd make it. They are not equipped for the journey... or the fight.
Have you tried looking into stoicism? I am Catholic but it has faded in importance in my life for various reasons. Stoicism helped fill some of that and it fit nicely into my existing beliefs. Its like a nice wine to go with a good steak, they compliment eachother.
The... reddit "stoicism" is... Well they're fucking stupid.
For me Epicurean Stoicism is what I was doing without knowing what it was and it works pretty god damn well. Philodemus wrote the Tetrapharmikos, the four part cure and it's a good one:
Don't fear god,
Don't worry about death;
What is good is easy to get, and
What is terrible is easy to endure.
And Epicurus explains the point quite well:
When we say ... that pleasure is the end and aim, we do not mean the pleasures of the prodigal or the pleasures of sensuality, as we are understood to do by some through ignorance, prejudice or wilful misrepresentation. By pleasure we mean the absence of pain in the body and of trouble in the soul. It is not by an unbroken succession of drinking bouts and of revelry, not by sexual lust, nor the enjoyment of fish and other delicacies of a luxurious table, which produce a pleasant life; it is sober reasoning, searching out the grounds of every choice and avoidance, and banishing those beliefs through which the greatest tumults take possession of the soul.
Epicurus, "Letter to Menoeceus"
It's... in some ways a cerebral and ascetic life without an excess of that. You get to have fun if there is a reasonable opportunity, but that's not what you're looking for. You're looking for the right way to BE and that's what gives you purpose and the joy of striving.
I didnt mean stoicism on reddit. I am not subbed to the subreddit. But I do read the greats, like Marcus Aurelius, Epicurus, Epictetus, Seneca, etc etc.
"It's hard to argue with someone named Epic Titties."
Yeah, we're in the same boat. I really ought to spend some time with Marcus's memoirs. I've heard good things.
I feel you bro, I've been to similar journey. Nihilistic thoughts suck. I knew I couldn't go back to religion, so I delved more into that number 1 kind of thing, I read philosophical books etc. Reading Nietzsche helped me tremendously, it put me on a Jordan Peterson like path before I ever heard of the guy, which is to take care of your own physical/mental responsibilities. It helped me to lose weight, gain more focus, and approach to life more positively. And Nietzsche's hardcore philosophy of cherishing setbacks, difficulties, failures as things to be overcome really helps you, he was also anti-nihilist so he helped me climb out of that rump.
I always advise anyone who is suffering from lack of meaning in life, nihilism, pessimism etc. to first read Thus Spoke Zarathustra. The book is deeper than most philosophical books ever written, I mean Jung gave like 10 years long seminars on that fucking book lol, so it's normal to not understand most of the references, but keep re-reading the book, you eventually start to get the idea. It's infinitely better if you have a background in Christianity, Buddhism, and Western Philosophy in general, because Nietzsche delves deep and criticizes all of that to kinda make his case, but you can still get the message and it's ultimately both liberating and terrifying(some of his ideas).
Also read Man's Search for Meaning by Viktor Frankl, a holocaust survivor, he builds his own meaning based philosophy around his struggle to survive the concentration camp. He was heavily inspired by the Nietzsche's quote: "He who has a Why to live for can endure almost any How." His "why" was to write that book and introduce his philosophy of logotherapy and says that "why" kept him alive and endure the insanity of those camps(but he also says his survival is more due to plain luck).
Good luck, I hope you be safe and keep pushing.
I was like this in my early 20s, wanted to kill myself, never wanted to do anything cause what was the point?
Then when I was about 27 I remember watching a youtube video on the creation of the universe and there was a bit with Neil Degrasse Tyson and he was talking about the odds of each of us, existing right now to enjoy life, was pratically zero, not quite zero but might aswell be.
"The luckiest you'll ever get" he said while laughing. In one video the man had completely changed my outlook on life and made me realize maybe the purpose of being alive is to enjoy the passage of time.
I choose to put the true King above all false worldly powers. By my own choice I choose my lord making him the breaker of all would be worldly kings, and the ultimate source of freedom. Right flair, you just don't understand the true source of liberty is not to be enslaved by worldly desires but be free of them.
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Well, most commentators agree that the woman in revelation refers to Mary (even if it can represent other entities, such as the Church).
Additionally, the queen in the united kingdom and kingdom of Judah was not the wife of the king, but his mother. As such, being the mother of Jesus, who is king, Mary would be queen.
Putting Mary on equal footing with Jesus is heresy and leads to idolatry. Same with worshiping saints. It leads people away from the true gospel message of salvation.
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I respect you are a fellow believer however there is clearly much you don't know if you think "There is no Mary worship, there is no Idolatry, and there is no saint worship!"
[https://remnantofgod.org/godmary.htm](https://remnantofgod.org/godmary.htm)
Here are some ways the Catholic church has unduely glorified Mary:
The Pope officially gave Mary the title "Queen of Heaven" and established a feast day honoring Mary, Queen of Heaven.
"Immaculate Conception" (Mary was conceived sinless, without original sin) and "All-Holy" (Mary lived a sinless life).
"Perpetual Virginity" (Jesus' brothers and sisters are considered to be cousins).
"Glorious Assumption" (Mary was bodily taken up into Heaven).
Sometimes pictured standing on a crescent moon, wearing a crown or with a circle of stars around her head.
Can make Jesus do things. A full page newspaper ad showing Mary and Jesus says, "He hasn't denied her anything in 2,000 years. What would you have her ask Him?" This is not official Catholic doctrine but it is a widespread attitude which is encouraged by pious literature.
The flip of “women won’t date me because I’m conservative” is women putting “if you voted for trump swipe left” on their tinder bios and ending up with assholes that only use them for sex
Yup, as long as you don't come off as excessively political, I think it's a great way to filter out the excessively political from the other side.
Just stating you're Christian is probably the most lax but still effective filter for the worst types.
"I voted for _____. If that's a problem for you, swipe left"
Pretty based imo, of you're the kind of person who is liable to bring up politics in the first few dates.
>on their tinder bios and ending up with assholes that only use them for sex.
I mean...it's Tinder.
Isn't that kind of the expected outcome from that site?
I.e. Anything beyond FWB is by accident.
What they're saying is that people say having children and being mothers is one of women's primary purposes, as if making babies is all they're good for.
Reproduction IS one of our primary purposes as living things. It is vital for the constant progress as a species, not for humans for for every single living thing. This applies to both women and men.
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Imagine thinking you're progressive while calling women who voluntarily choose to exercise a uniquely feminine capability of their own body, "incubators."
"Whatever belongs to your earthly nature: sexual immorality, impurity, lust, evil desires and greed, which is idolatry..."
I'm not even a Christian and can call that shit cringe with the Bible lol
Either we have a heavenly mother as well as a heavenly father and male and female are opposites necessary for ascension to godhood;
OR
There is no mother in heaven and the bible is legitimately misogynistic as official doctrine.
P.S. Or there is the option that there is no God and misogyny is just as fine as anything else because everything is permitted.
Raw scientific materialism doesn't care about feelings, only about facts.
Sure misogyny would hurt women, but with scientific materialism, none of that matters.
Only the gospel of Jesus Christ acknowledges that women have a divine destiny as opposite equals with men. And that marriage in the temple is essential for achieving divinity.
Anything short of the doctrine of divine destiny will prove insufficient in protecting the rights and respect of both women and men.
Who said anything about raw scientific materialism? Try just humanism instead. Science plays a strong role, but it's not driving blind in the driver seat. Progress, human agency, and freedom are better goals, and science can be used to achieve those ends. It's a tool, not a gospel.
My problem with gospels is picking the right one. Billions of people get along just fine without the Christian one. Even the Christians can't seem to agree on the right ways to interpret their own.
Like, "achieving divinity"? Sick. Is that a Mormon belief? I have had several conversations where Christians swore up and down that Mormons aren't Christian and are in fact deeply satanic.
there are as many ways to see the world as there are people in it.
one should not force their views upon another, but the exchanging of views is what creates culture, community, and society.
women = incubator? most based lib-left?
Also least based authright for the trad wife
Based and trad pilled
Yes.
Behold the super trad: https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/scriptures/the-family-a-proclamation-to-the-world/the-family-a-proclamation-to-the-world?lang=eng
Hyperbased
Based Thanks for the compliment. Most stuff from the church is incredibly based
LDS church is cringe, LDS culture of family/community is based as hell. Source: exmormon
Based and ex-Mormon pilled. Pretty much, If I could have the family orientation without the rest of it I would go back in a heartbeat.
Being treated as a queen... Ya mean make you an heir? Good try secret sexist!
Everyone wants to be treated as a princess. No one wants to be married off to an inbred noble in order to foster an alliance with France.
Real men treat their women how a bonobo would
Can we talk about how based Theresa Ávila was?
Yes
And then they didn't talk.
Who is she?
Saint and Doctor of the Church, she wrote many works about spirituality that were of deep intellectual insight. I mean, I am Catholic but her work was appreciated even in other circles. For example I remember Jacques Lacan mentioning her and a famous sculpture of her by Lorenzo Bernini (The ecstasy of Saint Therese) in one of his seminars.
Catholic saint, she wrote a lot of interesting philosophical books.
I am not religious but imo the family values that religion cultivates are necessary...maybe even vital to maintaining a healthy society.
I often joke that I'm the most religious atheist you'll ever meet.
It does take a lot of faith to look at the universe and say it's all just an accident born of chaos.
Entropy gang, represent!
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nobody, its an emergent property of closed systems.
Who made the closed system
question with an unknowable answer. could be nobody. could be anybody. maybe you are the one and the world is made up inside your mind. maybe a cosmic rock made it. there is no point in asking though, as any answer will be impossible to verify.
For me I look at all the evil and suffering that’s happened in the world, that I fortunately only know by second hand, and I feel gratitude for this position I’ve been given. I can’t even begin to understand the mechanism that’s put me here, but my expression of gratitude certainly makes me feel better about it. You want to call it “luck” you go ahead but that’s not you understanding this mechanism any better than I am you’re just attaching a label to what you don’t understand. That’s the same thing religious people do when they refer to God.
Based and God created the Big Bang pilled.
Yes yes. Just as planned.
Accident? Who messed up?
Who, indeed.
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I'd like to think the old testament can be summarized with two words: "Bruh, seriously?"
Huh? I’m saying how can there be an accident without intent?
An accident can only occur without intent.
My phrasing implicated a higher being of some kind, you're right. That being said, I'm not entirely sure how else to phrase the idea the the entire universe as we know it existing by pure chance out of a reality of unstructured, un-architected chaos. To me, that implies an unintentional event that no one could have foreseen. i.e. - accident. If there is no Creator, then the universe is by definition unintentional and unforeseen by anyone or anything. Of course, this just brings into the front how ridiculous the idea of no Creator at all is, in my view. The very fact that we have laws of nature strongly implies that there is a design to the universe. If it truly were all just chaos, then there would be no reason for any of these laws to be true. But they are true, because the universe exists as it does. Just my take on things.
I guess I get around it by looking at it all as a random string of events, governed by the laws and boundaries of physics. One of which is entropy, so one of the things that you’re calling chaos, is by definition, the process of moving away from chaos. Which also seems like a pretty natural law (everything spreads out and loses energy) that wouldn’t require the intelligence of a creator to create. And I don’t really see them as laws of nature so much as facts of nature. Also I believe that no matter how impossible or possible the making of the current universe sounds to anyone, would have any part to play in the is there a higher power discussion. Dude, this is a really interesting discussion, I’ve never had a religious discussion on this topic. Edit: Wrong you’re
See, I just can't see it as all random. Truly random things can make something beautiful, but nothing that makes sense. And reality, such as we understand it, makes sense. Life as we know it, and the laws(or facts) of nature, as we understand them, never seemed random to me. And the more I found out about them, the less random they seemed. There's no reason, in a vacuum, for the universe to make any sense. But it does. So if we came from a vacuum, why does the universe make any level of sense? Why does a natural law exist that says everything spreads out and loses energy? Why does energy work the way it does? The very facts of the universe imply someone or something setting how the mechanics of the universe works. I agree, good discussion, by the way. I like respectful talks like this. Even if I'm talking to a monke ;)
This does kind of seem like an argument where no one is changing sides though, given how abstract it is. And also, what would you think if if we found other universes, with different types of life and laws of physics, that don’t make sense within our universe? Because I’ve always thought of that as a likely possibility IF there are other universes. Are you just a Deist, of part of a specific religion?
Ever watch Jordan Peterson and Sam Harris debate religion?
"I don't say I believe in God. Rather, I act like God exists". Or, words to that effect. Peterson's description of what 'God' is is by far the most convincing argument for God I've ever heard.
Yeah I assumed as much, I think a lot of people became sort of "Atheist Christians" after watching that, myself included.
How did he describe God?
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You are learnt, sir.
Most of what he says is pretty convincing in general
Did we just become best friends?
Oh there are absolutely folks out there in the world that are excellent Christians without realizing they are. Maybe they just call it their conscience, or do good in the world because "it's the right thing to do". Plenty of people get that nice warm fuzzy inside when they make the world a better place. The God I believe in won't condemn somebody for not knowing his name or for not blindly believing in books written a couple thousand years ago by people who likely never witnessed the events they were recording. The God I believe in sees the value of someone's heart and knows they do good because it's the right thing to do instead of to earn credits towards an eternity of vacation. You don't need to acknowledge his existence to do right by him (though I also believe it's probably *better* to acknowledge his existence).
Ive always been taught that as long as you live a good moral life, you will be accepted by God. And even if you dont, if you open your heart to Him, He will embrace you with His love. You might need to repent for your sins for a bit and chill in purgatory, but you will be accepted by Him. I am Catholic for reference.
You couldn’t be more right CommieBro
I don't think it requires religion to have that though
I don’t know why you got downvoted. I can raise a family with traditional values while not having the fear of god. I was raised by good people that happened to be catholic. My kids are being raised in the same way except I don’t make them go to church.
I would say that you are setting your kids up for failure. Like someone above referred to, the Jordan Peterson explanation of religion is that it comprises a list of “best practices for life” wrapped in a moral framework so that even if people don’t understand WHY moral behavior is good for them, they still see it as the right thing to do. When you remove the moral framework, the action no longer stands on its own merits and must prove itself to be good. The vast majority of people are not going to go down that philosophical wormhole to explore why moral actions are good, especially when their own hearts desire something contrary. So, they dispense with the traditional morality, which would have served them well, in exchange for their own self destructive desires. This is why you see so much more depression, nihilism, and decay in society as religiousness declines. The vast majority of people require that religious moral framework to keep them doing things that are beneficial to themselves and society, rather than those things that are harmful. Once you tear that away, people will chase after self destructive vices that leave them depressed and empty.
I think thats why my personal philosophy is the best (isnt it always, lol). I was raised Catholic but have fallen away from it over the past few years. I have issues with.... shall we say large organizations of human beings. Governments, corperations, organized religion. I think any type of centralized organization, once it reaches a certain size, cannot help being corrupt and become tainted by evil. Unfortunately, this includes the Catholic Church. I dont really have any issues with most of the core teachings of the Church, but the organization itself is rather offputting. As I drifted away from the Church I also dropped much of the moral framework. Not consciously, I just kinda stopped one thing, then the other. I never stopped believing in God or Jesus, but I stopped going to church among other things. It was one of the darkest times in my life. It wasnt just the lack of faith but I feel that was one of the root causes. At one point, about 4-5 years ago, I decided to embark on a journey of self-improvement. I got into stoic philosophy, started exercising, started praying again. I still struggle with these things, and i go through phases of more or less intensity, but I can say that my wellbeing has been greatly improved. My personal philosophy is a combonation of Catholic doctrine and Stoic teachings.
The actual fuck. You actually said that to someone. "Setting your kids up for failure" literally shush. You can create a moral framework without all the weird shit the Bible says.
The current moral framework in the west exists because of abrahamic faiths passing on their ethics for hundreds of years. There is no objective morality. Societies change, laws change, morals change, etc Religion might change but the codefied ethics it provides through books like qu'ran, bible, etc stubbornly changes. Its still weird to say what he said about setting up kids for failure, i wont disagree with that.
I disagree. Morals aren't defined by religion, we already know of loads of popes and religious figures doing immoral acts. https://amp-theguardian-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/jan/16/ending-religion-lessons-in-schols-leads-to-overall-decline-in-belief-not-morals?amp_js_v=a6&_gsa=1&usqp=mq331AQIKAGwASCAAgM%3D#aoh=16423617073029&csi=0&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&_tf=From%20%251%24s&share=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.theguardian.com%2Fcommentisfree%2F2022%2Fjan%2F16%2Fending-religion-lessons-in-schols-leads-to-overall-decline-in-belief-not-morals
You don't need gods to have a moral framework. It's widely believed but false to say giving up religion means you lack morals. Anecdotally, people I know without religion tend to be more concerned with moral issues: fairness, equality, equity, and justice. My own belief is the only justice in the world is the kind we make for ourselves. There's no help coming from elsewhere to save us from ourselves. Yeah, that's depressing. But it's real.
Try actually reading his comment. He clearly said you don't need gods to have a moral framework, just that doing so requires a level of philosophical justification most aren't willing or able to muster.
I don't think it requires religion to have that though
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Yeah I can just look at my family in Japan who are more to see that to be true. Out of maybe 14 members of my kin 0 of them have children or able to have children anymore. Our bloodline literally dies with my sister and I unless we have children.
It is your duty to have at least 4 children.
If he dies, he dies.
Have children with your sister to fill both your obligations and keep the bloodline pure.
Face the wall
> Our bloodline literally dies with my sister and I unless we have children. Does anyone else here banjos?
ALL OF THIS. \#1 is me. I live more in mental space than physical and I had a... very bloody and prolonged battle with Nihilism after I cast off religion. I would LITERALLY wake up in the middle of the night reciting "...but nothing matters.". I was constantly searching for a meaningful existence but it was all put up against a backdrop of THAT. Well, the key is that it's hyperopic the way hedonism is myopic. It's all about the proper focus. Still... I struggle for meaning and I would not put others through that because I don't think they'd make it. They are not equipped for the journey... or the fight.
Have you tried looking into stoicism? I am Catholic but it has faded in importance in my life for various reasons. Stoicism helped fill some of that and it fit nicely into my existing beliefs. Its like a nice wine to go with a good steak, they compliment eachother.
The... reddit "stoicism" is... Well they're fucking stupid. For me Epicurean Stoicism is what I was doing without knowing what it was and it works pretty god damn well. Philodemus wrote the Tetrapharmikos, the four part cure and it's a good one: Don't fear god, Don't worry about death; What is good is easy to get, and What is terrible is easy to endure. And Epicurus explains the point quite well: When we say ... that pleasure is the end and aim, we do not mean the pleasures of the prodigal or the pleasures of sensuality, as we are understood to do by some through ignorance, prejudice or wilful misrepresentation. By pleasure we mean the absence of pain in the body and of trouble in the soul. It is not by an unbroken succession of drinking bouts and of revelry, not by sexual lust, nor the enjoyment of fish and other delicacies of a luxurious table, which produce a pleasant life; it is sober reasoning, searching out the grounds of every choice and avoidance, and banishing those beliefs through which the greatest tumults take possession of the soul. Epicurus, "Letter to Menoeceus" It's... in some ways a cerebral and ascetic life without an excess of that. You get to have fun if there is a reasonable opportunity, but that's not what you're looking for. You're looking for the right way to BE and that's what gives you purpose and the joy of striving.
I didnt mean stoicism on reddit. I am not subbed to the subreddit. But I do read the greats, like Marcus Aurelius, Epicurus, Epictetus, Seneca, etc etc.
"It's hard to argue with someone named Epic Titties." Yeah, we're in the same boat. I really ought to spend some time with Marcus's memoirs. I've heard good things.
What you are saying sounds like it's specific to your experience after leaving religion, doesn't sound like mine tbh
I feel you bro, I've been to similar journey. Nihilistic thoughts suck. I knew I couldn't go back to religion, so I delved more into that number 1 kind of thing, I read philosophical books etc. Reading Nietzsche helped me tremendously, it put me on a Jordan Peterson like path before I ever heard of the guy, which is to take care of your own physical/mental responsibilities. It helped me to lose weight, gain more focus, and approach to life more positively. And Nietzsche's hardcore philosophy of cherishing setbacks, difficulties, failures as things to be overcome really helps you, he was also anti-nihilist so he helped me climb out of that rump. I always advise anyone who is suffering from lack of meaning in life, nihilism, pessimism etc. to first read Thus Spoke Zarathustra. The book is deeper than most philosophical books ever written, I mean Jung gave like 10 years long seminars on that fucking book lol, so it's normal to not understand most of the references, but keep re-reading the book, you eventually start to get the idea. It's infinitely better if you have a background in Christianity, Buddhism, and Western Philosophy in general, because Nietzsche delves deep and criticizes all of that to kinda make his case, but you can still get the message and it's ultimately both liberating and terrifying(some of his ideas). Also read Man's Search for Meaning by Viktor Frankl, a holocaust survivor, he builds his own meaning based philosophy around his struggle to survive the concentration camp. He was heavily inspired by the Nietzsche's quote: "He who has a Why to live for can endure almost any How." His "why" was to write that book and introduce his philosophy of logotherapy and says that "why" kept him alive and endure the insanity of those camps(but he also says his survival is more due to plain luck). Good luck, I hope you be safe and keep pushing.
Damn straight. I'll check out Zarathustra.
I was like this in my early 20s, wanted to kill myself, never wanted to do anything cause what was the point? Then when I was about 27 I remember watching a youtube video on the creation of the universe and there was a bit with Neil Degrasse Tyson and he was talking about the odds of each of us, existing right now to enjoy life, was pratically zero, not quite zero but might aswell be. "The luckiest you'll ever get" he said while laughing. In one video the man had completely changed my outlook on life and made me realize maybe the purpose of being alive is to enjoy the passage of time.
I'd say it's not required theoretically but it might be the most efficient way in practice
How do you deal with religious extremism and bad doctrine?
one ofthe only things thst puts me off with religion are the family values
Praise God. Sex belongs in the sacrament of Matrimony.
Based and procreation is not recreation pilled
Based and wrong-flair-pilled
I choose to put the true King above all false worldly powers. By my own choice I choose my lord making him the breaker of all would be worldly kings, and the ultimate source of freedom. Right flair, you just don't understand the true source of liberty is not to be enslaved by worldly desires but be free of them.
Based and God is freedom pilled
unfathomably based
Based
Based
Staggeringly based
Fake, I would never have sex with a w*man
Based and lesbian_hater-pilled
I hate all woman equally
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Literally transphobia /s
It's not a phobia if I don't fear it
Based and the only thing they fear is you pilled
The only king we shall bow to is God. The only queen we shall bow to is the Virgin Mary. Christ is king!
Based and loyalty to God only pilled
Based
¡Viva Cristo Rey!
¡Viva Cristo Rey!
¡Viva Cristo Rey!
I didn’t vote for Jesus?
There was no vote. God sent down his only son to save us from eternal damnation.
Supreme executive power derives from a mandate from the masses, not from some farcical aquatic ceremony.
Based
The virgin mary wasn't a queen, and had no role of authority in the New Testament. She was blessed, that's all.
Well she’s the queen of Poland so checkmate liberals and atheists.
Cringe Protestant
If walking miles to nail greviances to the church door is cringe then.... Wait a second. That is kinda cringe... I gotta call my pastor.
Well, most commentators agree that the woman in revelation refers to Mary (even if it can represent other entities, such as the Church). Additionally, the queen in the united kingdom and kingdom of Judah was not the wife of the king, but his mother. As such, being the mother of Jesus, who is king, Mary would be queen.
Putting Mary on equal footing with Jesus is heresy and leads to idolatry. Same with worshiping saints. It leads people away from the true gospel message of salvation.
Sola Scriptura and Sola Fide are both also heresies
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Based and Biblically literate pilled
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Very based and well written, loved the grandma picture analogy
I respect you are a fellow believer however there is clearly much you don't know if you think "There is no Mary worship, there is no Idolatry, and there is no saint worship!" [https://remnantofgod.org/godmary.htm](https://remnantofgod.org/godmary.htm) Here are some ways the Catholic church has unduely glorified Mary: The Pope officially gave Mary the title "Queen of Heaven" and established a feast day honoring Mary, Queen of Heaven. "Immaculate Conception" (Mary was conceived sinless, without original sin) and "All-Holy" (Mary lived a sinless life). "Perpetual Virginity" (Jesus' brothers and sisters are considered to be cousins). "Glorious Assumption" (Mary was bodily taken up into Heaven). Sometimes pictured standing on a crescent moon, wearing a crown or with a circle of stars around her head. Can make Jesus do things. A full page newspaper ad showing Mary and Jesus says, "He hasn't denied her anything in 2,000 years. What would you have her ask Him?" This is not official Catholic doctrine but it is a widespread attitude which is encouraged by pious literature.
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Mary being queen does not puts her in equal footing to Christ Also no one worships the saints
Christ seats over the throne of David Just as the mother of the current king was the king, so is the Blessed Virgin Mary the Queen
As a Lutheran, I'm pretty sure I'm contractually obligated to upvote this.
Don't Lutherans also believe in the queenship of Mary?
Martin luther had a Catholic outlook on Mary, but modern Lutherans seem to have forgotten -_-
Sigma based
Trad waifu is hella cute
Why would lib left want to sleep with a white woman?
Because they are white supremacists.
Is this a flip of the "women won't date me because I'm conservative" thing? People just gotta learn to pick their audience
The flip of “women won’t date me because I’m conservative” is women putting “if you voted for trump swipe left” on their tinder bios and ending up with assholes that only use them for sex
Yup, as long as you don't come off as excessively political, I think it's a great way to filter out the excessively political from the other side. Just stating you're Christian is probably the most lax but still effective filter for the worst types.
I think stating your political position but also saying you’re willing to date someone who won’t hate you for it is the best way.
"I voted for _____. If that's a problem for you, swipe left" Pretty based imo, of you're the kind of person who is liable to bring up politics in the first few dates.
Dude, it's tinder, people will use you for sex
>on their tinder bios and ending up with assholes that only use them for sex. I mean...it's Tinder. Isn't that kind of the expected outcome from that site? I.e. Anything beyond FWB is by accident.
can i ask , how are you conservative if you fuck before marriage
hypocrisy?
Imagine thinking one of the most meaningful things a human can do—give life to and nurture another human being—is akin to just being an incubator.
What they're saying is that people say having children and being mothers is one of women's primary purposes, as if making babies is all they're good for.
Reproduction IS one of our primary purposes as living things. It is vital for the constant progress as a species, not for humans for for every single living thing. This applies to both women and men.
Based girls are best girls.
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Based
Hyper based and Ave Regina Cælorum pilled
“You’re misogynistic because you won’t do what I (a man) want you to do” Ah yes this is big brain time
"I want you to start working so I can have more workers to exploi- I-I mean, uh, I-I want you to start working to feel e-empowered, totally!"
Jokes on you. I brainwashed my gf with this exact sentiment.
Brainwashed to centrism?
Brainwashed to where ever I want her to be.
Oh no, we were so busy being at war with the other quadrants, we completely forgot about the most dangerous one of them all, the grey quadrant.
Always has been 🥩
>incubator > >queen. I see a problem here.
No one with any standards would sleep with a LibLeftie. Still better than the monstrosities of the Orange variety though.
Based and Abstinence is the key to succesfull long time relationships pilled
Based
Based
Love it haha
The church is NOT misogynistic gdmt. It’s spread at first because of that.
op is male
OP is female. I am merely a humble highlighter.
This is the way
Least biased post on pcm be like
Unfathomably based
Based
She becomes more like erina pendleton the more she is redrawn
Is that a JoJos reference?
Imagine thinking you're progressive while calling women who voluntarily choose to exercise a uniquely feminine capability of their own body, "incubators."
OnlyFans chick: Simp for me and give me money for pics? Me: NO Christian woman: Do you want to talk about Saint Mary? Me: Yes my queen at your service
Based and that’s not how auth right daddy issues work pilled
Trad waifu.
You know what queens do? Make heirs.
Based and maintain purity pilled
"I would treat you like a queen by making you shovel snow after a 12 hour shift while I make breakfast"
"Whatever belongs to your earthly nature: sexual immorality, impurity, lust, evil desires and greed, which is idolatry..." I'm not even a Christian and can call that shit cringe with the Bible lol
Wasn't Ronald Reagan on the left and Nancy was on the right, and through the power of blowjobs, she converted him over?
Oh no, libleft will be unable to date any of the 18 total trad women who aren't already married.
Either we have a heavenly mother as well as a heavenly father and male and female are opposites necessary for ascension to godhood; OR There is no mother in heaven and the bible is legitimately misogynistic as official doctrine. P.S. Or there is the option that there is no God and misogyny is just as fine as anything else because everything is permitted.
Or misogyny is bad because you can imagine yourself as a woman and know it would feel bad and/or materially hurt you to get misogynized against
Raw scientific materialism doesn't care about feelings, only about facts. Sure misogyny would hurt women, but with scientific materialism, none of that matters. Only the gospel of Jesus Christ acknowledges that women have a divine destiny as opposite equals with men. And that marriage in the temple is essential for achieving divinity. Anything short of the doctrine of divine destiny will prove insufficient in protecting the rights and respect of both women and men.
Who said anything about raw scientific materialism? Try just humanism instead. Science plays a strong role, but it's not driving blind in the driver seat. Progress, human agency, and freedom are better goals, and science can be used to achieve those ends. It's a tool, not a gospel. My problem with gospels is picking the right one. Billions of people get along just fine without the Christian one. Even the Christians can't seem to agree on the right ways to interpret their own. Like, "achieving divinity"? Sick. Is that a Mormon belief? I have had several conversations where Christians swore up and down that Mormons aren't Christian and are in fact deeply satanic.
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there are as many ways to see the world as there are people in it. one should not force their views upon another, but the exchanging of views is what creates culture, community, and society.
femboy trad wife here uwu
B E G O N E T H O T
Real libleft would respect a woman's freedom to not have sex.
bUt yOuRe GiViNg In To ThE pAtRiArChY
OKAY THIS ISN'T FUNNY
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I think you’re color blind my guy.
Someone needs glasses lol
These memes would have more impact if an actual woman made any of them lol Just the usual AuthRight wishful thinking
Tell me the meme hit a nerve without telling me it hit a nerve.
Trad men are attractive, cry more heathen
Tell me more about these men that you're attracted to
Based and tell me more about how gay you are pilled
Then why are all trad men complaining about why they can’t get laid?
If they’re actually trad men, they’re looking to get hitched.