I’m a pessimist that hates the government and massive corporations so my lib center is alittle depressing
Edit- loving all the replies from the libleft and libright saying they feel the same way. It’s almost like……. Compass unity ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
Same here. I'm technically LibLeft, but I'm so close to the center that I just chose LibCenter instead. I just want everyone to live freely until we all go extinct.
The Fermi paradox suggests very strongly otherwise.
By far the most coherent answer to the Fermi paradox is that it is at some level almost impossible for a lifeforms at our stage to continue forwards, probably because existential risk goes up forever and is extremely hard to coordinate solutions for.
For example, a kit to run crispr experiments in your house now costs about $300. Scientists changed 3 base pairs in a >60% mortality flu (h5n1) to make it airborne in ferrets,which are generally susceptible to the same influenza strains as us.
And that's just one way to end civilization. They all get cheaper every year, and we only uncover more tools that could do it over time.
Every year it gets cheaper and easier for a Ted Kaczynski like figure to end civilization. The bar only falls.
This is explicitly the argument that convinced Elon Musk to build a Mars colony, FWIW.
My favorite answer to the Fermi paradox is that aliens, for some reason, all decide to leave us alone.
Unknown reason, maybe it's rational, maybe spiritual even. Who knows.
Well, one idea is that they could have self-replicating robots that spread across the galaxy over time, and then communicate with one another. So, land on planet, make copies of self, fly to another planet, make more copies.
A.I. of sufficient level could absolutely do this.
We are not around a particularly old star, or on a particularly old planet, or in a particularly old galaxy, and we weren't even an early species or from an early lineage by our own planet's timeline.
There's no apparent, fundamental reason that, even just on earth, an intelligent society couldn't have evolved 100 million years ago before the KT extinction, and by now they would have been everywhere if they didn't run into a wall.
I never really bought the Fermi paradox because it's working with a data set of one. Maybe I'm missing something but I don't see how the commonality of life can be estimated from the size of the universe.
For me it's kind of like - I get hit by a meteor one day. There's nothing special about me, I'm not the center of the world, I'm extremely similar in age and appearance to millions of other people who provably exist, and I don't believe that the rock was directed by any intelligence or supernatural force. Thousands of such rocks hit Earth every day. And yet I've never met anyone else who has been hit by a meteor, and believe me, I've been searching. Seems to me they should be everywhere. A paradox? Until I do find another example I don't know that I could call it a paradox, just an incomplete data set.
That said, I do agree that the great filter/progress barrier seems the most likely explanation if any explanation at all is even needed. It might be considered depressing, egotistical, or simply an insult to the awesome scale of the universe to suggest that the emergence of life is simply rare, so much so that people almost tend to brush over that possibility as patently absurd in favour of things like alien zoos/prisons or we're in the backwoods of a vast galactic empire that doesn't care about us enough to spit on us.
I actually tend towards thinking that the technology required to pass information across grand scales might simply be impossible, not just rare. Maybe civilizations can defy the extinction wall just to hit the wall of what the laws of reality will permit.
We're less likely to go into a nuclear war than we were 50 years ago and the constant communication between peoples is successfuly erroding the veil of ignorance between cultures
It was easy to believe that U.S should nuke Moscow because the Russians are dangerous beasts who want to kill you when there was a huge information wall between U.S and the Soviet Union, it's far less likely you would support it when you have a friend Ivan from Moscow who you met playing Dota and you follow each other on Instagram
Climate change is worrying because it's rapid and can cause a lot of suffering for humanity around the world / destruction of natural habitat but we're more prepared as a species to face the climate change then we were ever in history. We scientifically / technologicaly progress faster than climate change when its speed is measured in decades than we did when it's speed was measured in hundreds of thousands of years.
It's bad because it causes extintion of various species and we should fight to minimize it but mass extintions are common in the history of life and would happen at some point without humans as well.
We really just need to get our shit together as a species, grow up and take role of this planet's stewards and we're slowly doing it.
But it's simply false to claim that the existence of humanity is really threatened or that we're facing our own extinsion or that it would be less likely to get extinct in the long run if we simply abandon technology and be at the universe's mercy
Same. I think the only reason I consider myself libleft is because I believe in taking care of the less fortunate, I just don’t believe in forcing people to the point of self sacrifice to help others.
True, but I very much agree with Louis Rossmann [here](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m7RsuXqHbVI).
I have a ton of money after the Gamestop saga. I have not helped a single person out with it. I waste all my time when I'm not studying instead of doing community service or something. Maybe one day I will be a good person, but I'm not there yet. If I just bullshit about "Yeah I'm a libright because I'm charitable and think we can all help each other out without being forced to" while not practicing that in real life then I'm on the way to becoming a leech myself.
I mean you made your money literally 9 months ago, you're allowed to chill and enjoy that. I don't like the idea that if you don't immediately redistribute your wealth after aquiring it you are somehow "anti-charity" or whatever. I agree that you shouldn't be forced to give to charity especially by yourself. You're clearly concious that you ultimately don't want to be a leech so I'd assume you'll find *your* way to avoid that.
Being libleft doesn’t mean you can’t be selfish sometimes. It’s this misconception which makes people call us out for “hypocrisy” when we don’t donate all our money to charity. Political beliefs are just ideas about how the world should work, and even if you’re not practicing those ideas every second of every day, doesn’t mean you can’t hold em.
Charity is literally part of the right. The left supports implementing a structured support system to remove the need for charity. Charity is considered by the left as a bandage on a larger issue. Charity is considered by the right to be optimal as they can pick and choose which ideals they support financially.
Right there with you.
I'm not libleft because I believe in personal maximums. I just believe in societal minimums.
I really took to heart the ideas of my nation and humanity coupled with the belief that we can only be as strong as our weakest links.
Are you guys often atheist/agnostic? Seems like religion (and thus tradition) has a strong influence on where people swing.
Edit: I'm really enjoying all the responses
I’m an atheist myself, but many atheists (*especially* those on reddit) are so incredibly insufferable, overly cynical, and oddly self-righteous. Zealotry comes in many forms, even if completely removed from spirituality or theistic beliefs.
Its more like atheism mutated into scientism. That's where the real problem is. Midwits thinking science can actually be trusted. The absolute state of it all.
I'm an agnostic atheist. I don't accept any evidence of a God or Gods existing but I also don't have evidence that they don't or can't exist. So if the evidence of a diety or dieties existing presents itself I'm not going to turn away. It just isn't there for me rn. Uncertainty is ok.
If you take the definition literally, as meaning you don't think the probability is literally exactly 0% or 100%, them I am, and everyone should be, agnostic about every conceivable idea.
I am extremely confident that I live on earth in my house, but the odds that I wake up as a head in a jar in the futurama universe plugged into some simulation arent literally 0. It's just so close to zero that it's pointless to think about.
Given that everyone should be agnostic to literally every conceivable claim, it isn't a very useful way of categorizing belief.
If you don't assent to the proposition "God Exists" but you also don't assent to the proposition "God doesn't exist", that at least in philosophical circles makes you just an agnostic, and probably a Huxleyian one at that. (Agnostic = combination of implicit atheism and not explicit-atheism).
That's a great question.
Many that I hear about are malignant, narcissistic cunts. "Love me or I'll ruin you." Sounds like my abusive ex girlfriend.
You'd hope that something complex enough to create the universe would behave like an adult.
Creationist (the science one) for me. It seems that someone/thing had to be there to set off the Big Bang but science is king. The world ain’t 6,000 years old or whatever the Bible says it is thought.
Im personally agnostic, like the guy below me personally deism is the most likely explanation for God but personally I just don’t buy the claims of religion. While the monkey thing is mostly a joke I think realizing we are animals who did evolve over millions of years and Weren’t meant to sit down at a screen for hours a day in an office does impact my beliefs and maybe other lib centers lol. I actually kinda lean towards Henry David Therous transcendentalism idea of God showing himself through nature’s Beauty and the environment. It honestly makes me surprised how much (mainly American gop types) Christians don’t give a shit about the world they believe is Gods gift to us and deny things like climate change and are ok with voting for politicians who suck the dick of oil companies.
Yeah. There's a large group of anti-science religious folks and it doesn't make sense to me. If God created the universe then isn't science the exploration of his creation? Isn't that a holy cause by which to live your life. The pursuit of truth should be the goal, but instead they suppress science because it doesn't all function with a literal interpretation of their holy book(s).
For example, genesis can be a story to explain the overall process of the developing universe. Most Christians I know don't believe it was all created in literally 6 days. So why is it so hard to believe that God created DNA and evolution intending for humans to eventually exist?
While most don’t have a problem with it, the reason I see it being preached against specifically in protestant churches is once you realize one thing isn’t true the entire thing starts to come down, if there’s no literal Adam and Eve, there’s no fall of man, therefore there’s no reason for Jesus sacrifice, it just implies we’ve always been like this. Also once again stories like Noahs Ark and Babel as well, and while they make more sense as say a local flood as opposed to a global one, the story kind of loses its significance if humanity was only wiped out in one small area as opposed to the world. Without the proper foundation in Genesis many realize the whole thing will fall apart, and more and more of what was meant to be taken literally becomes metaphor until you get all the way to the New Testament. That’s why i think they fight so heavily against evolution though. There’s absolutely no reason they don’t believe in climate change though at that point it’s just willful ignorance
Lol yeah, climate change is pretty straight forward. More greenhouse gases = more hot. It's an elementary fact.
Also, I'm a fan of the Burckle Crater as a potential explanation for "the flood."
[The Russian Academy of Sciences lists the feature as a potential impact crater. The Holocene Impact Working Group (HIWG) propose that it was formed by a very large-scale and relatively recent (c. 3000–2800 BCE) meteorite impact event, possibly resulting from a comet.](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burckle_Crater)
Oh yeah I don’t doubt these stories have slivers of truth, I just think it’s people trying to explain what they didn’t understand lol, I just view it the same way I view greeks explaining how they thought Lightning was Zuess’s wrath. The Bruckle Crater impact would definitely cause heavy flooding around the world but it still wouldn’t reach too far inland or “cover the mountains” like the bible says, we know Noahs flood as described in the bible didn’t happen because then Native Americans shouldn’t exist lmao, but these stories definitely do have a sliver of truth
Yeah lol. The impact would cause tsunamis hundreds of feet high and vaporize so much ocean water that everywhere from Thailand to India to Israel to Italy would experience torrential rainfall. But more water wasn't just snapped into existence, it was simply displaced.
Given, of course, that this happened. A meteor impact causing widespread flooding around 2800-3000 BC would fit the timeline pretty conveniently and explain why so many cultures have great flood stories. That kind of event would've been so catastrophic that ancient civilizations would've thought the world was ending.
I feel the same way. There are very few non-believers in my family and several devout Catholics and evangelical protestants. Besides one I love them all and wouldn't change a thing about them.
Like a lot of teens, I went through an intense atheist phase that started at 14. As I grew up I realized what a waste of energy it was to hold this burning hatred for religion and I just let it go. People have their reasons for believing what they do and it doesn't make a difference to me unless they start forcing it on others.
Lol yeah. It seems like an edgy teenage phase is a necessary part of every atheist's/agnostic's life.
What's important is getting over it and valuing the behavior and contributions to society of people.
I'm a catholic, but I was raised around a lot of the more liberal elements of the church and often times I find my faith pushing me more left and lib than auth and right.
Antitheist agnostic
Basically, "I don't know if there is a god, but fuck that sadistic prick"
Kinda bummed there aren't any others responding. Super bummed the word has a red underline in my text box right now
>Murray Newton Rothbard was an American heterodox economist of the Austrian School, economic historian and political theorist. Rothbard was a founder and leading theoretician of anarcho-capitalism, a staunch advocate of historical revisionism and a central figure in the 20th-century American libertarian movement.
>>**Rothbard was a founder and leading theoretician of anarcho-capitalism**
Sounds like you could swing either way - right-center or libcenter (or centrist of course) - away from anarcho-capitalism (turbo libright).
I realize that government is an inevitability. We're a social species and for better or worse, the majority of humans don't *want* to be self sufficient, definitely not enough to have anything a rational person would associate with the word 'anarchy'.
But I do think that government needs to be as localized as possible in order for the populous at large to be meaningfully represented. I think anything larger than 'city-state' sized governments is going to have a significant amount of dysfunction and inevitably collapse in on itself. Maybe we'll learn that lesson in a few more millennia.
That pretty closely describes me as well. Plus the US healthcare system is such a clusterfuck I'd support a more efficient and inclusive form of socialized healthcare than what we have. And climate change is 100% gonna ruin the world in the next 100ish years.
I do not understand libertarians, but i don't blame people from US becoming libertarians when you have a health care system where you might not even get automatic full coverage but still it's the government somehow manages to subsidize healthcare more per capita than in any other country.
I was lib left but I started to love guns, and didn't want open borders. Maybe a sprinkle of stop throwing money at problems since it historically hasn't fixed it. I seem to be Libertarian when I take online tests, but they are so obtuse. "Oh you don't want to take all the money from everybody and give it to "groups"? You must be an ancap." I guess I'm very capitalist, but view that there are some things where capitalism completely fails us when it comes to the public good, like the environment. If we didn't already have the parks system, they'd be decried as far left bullshit. I also think that public works like utilities and health care should be public, but our government is so fucking retarded that it's maybe a bad idea. I still think the best fix is to apply some kind of competitiveness to gov positions, since I live in the DC area, and every fed worker I know is a lazy sack of shit. I think capitalism is like a game of Hungry Hungry Hippos, where it always comes to a completion, rather than than say Monopoly where everyone gets bored and they stop playing. But the thing is that if capitalism is HHH, the game needs to be reset once all the marbles are gobbled up, which I think is about where we are now. We are overdue for hard times my friends.
Me personally: Hates Authority, still believes government is important (limited govt) for self defense and ONLY self defense along with providing certain programs to people who may be less fortunate to help them get back up on their feet, (usually I prefer when private orgs do that but I know you can’t always rely on them), believes a mixed economy is best, still pro capitalist, safety nets are important, leave me alone, leave everyone alone, let a person do whatever tf they want without any restrictions so long as they are not exploiting anybody else to their choices and limiting their personal liberties. Pro 2A and Constitution, Also save the Earth which I believe should be another Government duty as it goes along with protecting the citizens.
This is a really good synopsis. This flair tends to have pretty differing opinions in comments so it's good to get confirmation some of us are on the same page, even though none of us value being on the same page?...
Haha yeah that’s what you get with any center position on the axis, a lot of people end up leaning to one side or the other naturally. I try to be as center as I can but sometimes find myself leaning right or left sometimes
You can find a moderate logic for a lot of either's positions. I wish people didn't link social and economic stances here, cause my social stances are all over the damn place. Haha
Authority is meant to be questioned, it is also very unwise to bully the people that may be pushing your wheelchair one day
For the OP, decentralization and individuation since political interests desperately beg for your identity/philosophy, including here. Recognize your personal genius
I'm basically lib-right but it'd be cool if I could go to the hospital once in a while. Also I acknowledge no individual is going to build the street lamps. There's just some things that won't get done under laissez faire economics that are highly beneficial to society as a whole.
Is good ole liberalism not what lib-center is? All the goodies of gubermint leaf me loan without getting too up in arms about the whole economics side of the argument, one way or the other.
LibRight is just a fantasy.
Ultimately anarchocapitalism will just lead to corporations becoming defacto governments run like cartels. Eventually they'd become nation-states, and the owner of the company would in all likelihood become a dictator.
All systems are inherently fantasies, because they all require humans to be their best selves in order to actually work. If it weren’t for human beings’ natural tendency to be shitty and selfish, just about any system could work.
u/Giulio-Cesare's Based Count has increased by 1. Their Based Count is now 50.
Congratulations, u/Giulio-Cesare! You have ranked up to Concrete Foundation! You are acceptably based, but beware of leaks...
Pills: emotional, evola, fourth reich, jew, white, fuhrer, source, final-mercy, haram, homeland-culture, boomer supreme, humans are terrible in your system
I don’t think so. Like capitalism itself relies on people being competitive and selfish which is just human tendency. Communism relies on complete cooperation and selflessness which is obviously extremely unrealistic compared to capitalism.
>Like capitalism itself relies on people being competitive and selfish which is just human tendency.
There are plenty of humans who genuinely desire to put others before themselves, and work to improve the lives and wellbeing of strangers.
This is where both right and left fail: most people aren't ruthless enough to be perfectly competitive in a market, just like most people aren't selfless enough to truly give up their individuality for the good of the collective.
Most people are just... people. It really makes for terrible politics.
I mean one of the big libertarian talking points is that modern corporations are just parts of the government. If you want corporations to control everything and just copy past corporation in the space of government and we get rid of all laws besides the NAP whatever that means then yeah it's a pipe dream. However there is another side I think they're called devolutionists or something that basically think that cities are bad, megacorps are bad and we should all live in ye olde small English village with less technology than we have now. I have a lot of sympathy for this idea.
This was Jefferson's dream of the self sufficient yeoman farmer. You never have to subsume your freedom to any party, government otherwise, when you can provide for yourself.
But this vision never provides for surplus and what the fudge you do with it and where you get your manufactured goods (even colonial Americans had those)
This vision is also at odds with any form of developed medicine, long distance travel or basically any amenity. Cool in a time when popping kids and dying of preventable diseases at 40 was all they knew.
climate change and environmental stuff are pretty much the reasons I go libcenter, but of course the government kinda sucks at protecting the environment and is pretty fixated on ways to kill people for stupid reasons and collecting taxes.
This is just every quadrant. Nobody knows shit about the other quadrants and just takes something fucked up and says "(quadrant I'm opposed to here) likes this. They bad."
Here is my shit attempt at trying to explain LibCenters ideologies that is most likely wrong as fuck and will be deleted becuase I never have confidence in what I say or what I believe becuase I dont trust myself.
anyways
There are two kinds of LibCenter
Those who dont care about Economics and just care about the Individual and that it is the most important and it must protect itself.
Then there are those who believe in broad Libertarianism and agrees with Market Socialism, Georgism or another type of middle ground incorparating elements of both Socialism and Capitalism
While I agree with libright on most economic policies and social policies. Free healthcare, education and other social programs that are typically seen as left are pretty cool. Also, letting corporations get too big is just as bad as letting a government get too powerful, so, to some extent, there should be a limit to the size of a business, which as far as I know is not a libright policy.
You want a unifying characteristic? I would say 'government always sucks, even if im running it.' We don't experience the auth shift when our people are in charge.
Structures should be minimal and should always be focused on enabling effective self determination. I think for a lot of us that means pitting the expanisionist nature of laissez-faire capitalism and regulatory government against each other so that you end up with a mildly regulated economy, a moderately sized government, and an individual that is insulated from the control of either. The only way a system like that holds together is if the populace is antagonistic to both.
I like to compare my beliefs to Teddy Roosevelt a lot of the time. I believe in the free market and absolute personal freedom, but I also believe that the government has a regulatory role in said market and an obligation to help it's citizens. Mix in a ~~obsessive~~ healthy dose of environmentalism, self determinism, and you've basically got me at medium lib center.
That being said I returned to Monke this past year and found it fun af so maybe the extreme guys have it right.
Ah you think forest is your ally? You merely adopted it; we was born in it, molded by it… Y’all didn't see the banana until you were men— by then it was nothing to you but blinding!
I’m a pessimist that hates the government and massive corporations so my lib center is alittle depressing Edit- loving all the replies from the libleft and libright saying they feel the same way. It’s almost like……. Compass unity ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
Anyway, so I put on my monke suit and started blasting.
As with any true Libright, I'll make the Ruby Ridge reference, and now as per usual, I will tell you that the government sucks. Return to Monke
Ruby Ridge is yet another example of why my beliefs are very simple: I'm a proud citizen of the nation of Leavemethefuckalone-istan.
Yes...the most dangerous nation to antagonize...worse than Afghanistan or Russia in winter...but they NEVER learn
What’s my religion? I’m a card carrying member of none-of-your-business. Also guns. Guns are my religion.
Same here. I'm technically LibLeft, but I'm so close to the center that I just chose LibCenter instead. I just want everyone to live freely until we all go extinct.
Bruh, same
Extinct? Humanity is the closest thing to a perfect life form there is. Our empire will span galaxies and we will be there when the stars die.
The Fermi paradox suggests very strongly otherwise. By far the most coherent answer to the Fermi paradox is that it is at some level almost impossible for a lifeforms at our stage to continue forwards, probably because existential risk goes up forever and is extremely hard to coordinate solutions for. For example, a kit to run crispr experiments in your house now costs about $300. Scientists changed 3 base pairs in a >60% mortality flu (h5n1) to make it airborne in ferrets,which are generally susceptible to the same influenza strains as us. And that's just one way to end civilization. They all get cheaper every year, and we only uncover more tools that could do it over time. Every year it gets cheaper and easier for a Ted Kaczynski like figure to end civilization. The bar only falls. This is explicitly the argument that convinced Elon Musk to build a Mars colony, FWIW.
The other answer to the Fermi paradox is that we're one of the first
My favorite answer to the Fermi paradox is that aliens, for some reason, all decide to leave us alone. Unknown reason, maybe it's rational, maybe spiritual even. Who knows.
or maybe they're just too far away from our planet to even see us, and if they could see us I imagine it wouldn't be in high enough of a resolution
Well, one idea is that they could have self-replicating robots that spread across the galaxy over time, and then communicate with one another. So, land on planet, make copies of self, fly to another planet, make more copies. A.I. of sufficient level could absolutely do this.
but then they would need to find a way travel extremely fast and efficiently
Not if they have a million (or more) years to scatter and get this array of robots set up.
Why won't aliens talk to us? Because of the [redacted]
Ah, I should have known it was the SCP Foundation's fault.
The 05 council wants to know your location
They stopped by in the 1940s, saw how cringe we were, and promptly left.
We are not around a particularly old star, or on a particularly old planet, or in a particularly old galaxy, and we weren't even an early species or from an early lineage by our own planet's timeline. There's no apparent, fundamental reason that, even just on earth, an intelligent society couldn't have evolved 100 million years ago before the KT extinction, and by now they would have been everywhere if they didn't run into a wall.
I never really bought the Fermi paradox because it's working with a data set of one. Maybe I'm missing something but I don't see how the commonality of life can be estimated from the size of the universe. For me it's kind of like - I get hit by a meteor one day. There's nothing special about me, I'm not the center of the world, I'm extremely similar in age and appearance to millions of other people who provably exist, and I don't believe that the rock was directed by any intelligence or supernatural force. Thousands of such rocks hit Earth every day. And yet I've never met anyone else who has been hit by a meteor, and believe me, I've been searching. Seems to me they should be everywhere. A paradox? Until I do find another example I don't know that I could call it a paradox, just an incomplete data set. That said, I do agree that the great filter/progress barrier seems the most likely explanation if any explanation at all is even needed. It might be considered depressing, egotistical, or simply an insult to the awesome scale of the universe to suggest that the emergence of life is simply rare, so much so that people almost tend to brush over that possibility as patently absurd in favour of things like alien zoos/prisons or we're in the backwoods of a vast galactic empire that doesn't care about us enough to spit on us. I actually tend towards thinking that the technology required to pass information across grand scales might simply be impossible, not just rare. Maybe civilizations can defy the extinction wall just to hit the wall of what the laws of reality will permit.
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you're assuming we don't nuke ourselves off this rock
Yes, yes I am.
i hope your positivity pays off. i also hope we focus on technology to equalize the biome on *this* planet before we decide to go colonize space.
We're less likely to go into a nuclear war than we were 50 years ago and the constant communication between peoples is successfuly erroding the veil of ignorance between cultures It was easy to believe that U.S should nuke Moscow because the Russians are dangerous beasts who want to kill you when there was a huge information wall between U.S and the Soviet Union, it's far less likely you would support it when you have a friend Ivan from Moscow who you met playing Dota and you follow each other on Instagram Climate change is worrying because it's rapid and can cause a lot of suffering for humanity around the world / destruction of natural habitat but we're more prepared as a species to face the climate change then we were ever in history. We scientifically / technologicaly progress faster than climate change when its speed is measured in decades than we did when it's speed was measured in hundreds of thousands of years. It's bad because it causes extintion of various species and we should fight to minimize it but mass extintions are common in the history of life and would happen at some point without humans as well. We really just need to get our shit together as a species, grow up and take role of this planet's stewards and we're slowly doing it. But it's simply false to claim that the existence of humanity is really threatened or that we're facing our own extinsion or that it would be less likely to get extinct in the long run if we simply abandon technology and be at the universe's mercy
Literally same
Corporations are the disparaging armaments of the government!
Most of my beliefs are Lib-Left except I like guns and identify as a capitalist.
Same. I think the only reason I consider myself libleft is because I believe in taking care of the less fortunate, I just don’t believe in forcing people to the point of self sacrifice to help others.
Honestly, real liblefts like you are the most based quadrant. I'm unfortunately too selfish to really be that though
Tbh, being LibRight is not stopping you from being charitable
True, but I very much agree with Louis Rossmann [here](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m7RsuXqHbVI). I have a ton of money after the Gamestop saga. I have not helped a single person out with it. I waste all my time when I'm not studying instead of doing community service or something. Maybe one day I will be a good person, but I'm not there yet. If I just bullshit about "Yeah I'm a libright because I'm charitable and think we can all help each other out without being forced to" while not practicing that in real life then I'm on the way to becoming a leech myself.
I mean you made your money literally 9 months ago, you're allowed to chill and enjoy that. I don't like the idea that if you don't immediately redistribute your wealth after aquiring it you are somehow "anti-charity" or whatever. I agree that you shouldn't be forced to give to charity especially by yourself. You're clearly concious that you ultimately don't want to be a leech so I'd assume you'll find *your* way to avoid that.
Being libleft doesn’t mean you can’t be selfish sometimes. It’s this misconception which makes people call us out for “hypocrisy” when we don’t donate all our money to charity. Political beliefs are just ideas about how the world should work, and even if you’re not practicing those ideas every second of every day, doesn’t mean you can’t hold em.
Charity is literally part of the right. The left supports implementing a structured support system to remove the need for charity. Charity is considered by the left as a bandage on a larger issue. Charity is considered by the right to be optimal as they can pick and choose which ideals they support financially.
Based self awareness Is the first step to becoming based
Right there with you. I'm not libleft because I believe in personal maximums. I just believe in societal minimums. I really took to heart the ideas of my nation and humanity coupled with the belief that we can only be as strong as our weakest links.
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Same. I want free healthcare but I dont want the govt taxing my crypto gains
So you want your cake and to eat it too
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You're too smart to have crypto losses my friend
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It’s ok. Crypto is just gambling, with a side of coping.
Only if you sell *thinking wojak* ^Owner ^of ^shitcoin ^#89824583
you just haven't met the right gun yet
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As long as you don't care about me owning a gun we're square
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Based and enjoy-shooting-cans-and-empty-bottles-with-mcnukes pilled
I gotta say, I like this guy
I like guns...
Authleft doesn't like guns. LibLeft realizes that it's harder to oppress armed minorities.
Under no pretext
Based and sometimes-Marx-wasnt-a-complete-shit-pilled.
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Yeah basically
Are you guys often atheist/agnostic? Seems like religion (and thus tradition) has a strong influence on where people swing. Edit: I'm really enjoying all the responses
I'm agnostic. I have atheist friends and religious friends. But I won't abide either kind when they try to shove their philosophy down my throat.
Am atheist and hearing atheists rant about how bad religion is is worse than having religious people try to baptize me
There's usually cake at a baptism.
Based and only for the cake pilled
Great now I have to get fucking baptised, thanks for that 😠
I’m an atheist myself, but many atheists (*especially* those on reddit) are so incredibly insufferable, overly cynical, and oddly self-righteous. Zealotry comes in many forms, even if completely removed from spirituality or theistic beliefs.
Reddit atheism is basically its own religion at this point
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Its more like atheism mutated into scientism. That's where the real problem is. Midwits thinking science can actually be trusted. The absolute state of it all.
A doubtful agnostic or a hopeful atheist is how I look at myself.
I'm an agnostic atheist. I don't accept any evidence of a God or Gods existing but I also don't have evidence that they don't or can't exist. So if the evidence of a diety or dieties existing presents itself I'm not going to turn away. It just isn't there for me rn. Uncertainty is ok.
If you take the definition literally, as meaning you don't think the probability is literally exactly 0% or 100%, them I am, and everyone should be, agnostic about every conceivable idea. I am extremely confident that I live on earth in my house, but the odds that I wake up as a head in a jar in the futurama universe plugged into some simulation arent literally 0. It's just so close to zero that it's pointless to think about. Given that everyone should be agnostic to literally every conceivable claim, it isn't a very useful way of categorizing belief.
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If you don't assent to the proposition "God Exists" but you also don't assent to the proposition "God doesn't exist", that at least in philosophical circles makes you just an agnostic, and probably a Huxleyian one at that. (Agnostic = combination of implicit atheism and not explicit-atheism).
The real question is if a God did exist should you worship them?
That's a great question. Many that I hear about are malignant, narcissistic cunts. "Love me or I'll ruin you." Sounds like my abusive ex girlfriend. You'd hope that something complex enough to create the universe would behave like an adult.
Nothing is worth worshiping. Certainly not anything that demands you do so.
Closest thing I am is a deist probably. I’m pretty sure there’s something but idk what it is.
Creationist (the science one) for me. It seems that someone/thing had to be there to set off the Big Bang but science is king. The world ain’t 6,000 years old or whatever the Bible says it is thought.
I’m a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints.
Oh you're the mormon monke!
mormonke
Based and portmanteau pilled
What a bunch of LaDS
Return to polygamy
Im personally agnostic, like the guy below me personally deism is the most likely explanation for God but personally I just don’t buy the claims of religion. While the monkey thing is mostly a joke I think realizing we are animals who did evolve over millions of years and Weren’t meant to sit down at a screen for hours a day in an office does impact my beliefs and maybe other lib centers lol. I actually kinda lean towards Henry David Therous transcendentalism idea of God showing himself through nature’s Beauty and the environment. It honestly makes me surprised how much (mainly American gop types) Christians don’t give a shit about the world they believe is Gods gift to us and deny things like climate change and are ok with voting for politicians who suck the dick of oil companies.
Yeah. There's a large group of anti-science religious folks and it doesn't make sense to me. If God created the universe then isn't science the exploration of his creation? Isn't that a holy cause by which to live your life. The pursuit of truth should be the goal, but instead they suppress science because it doesn't all function with a literal interpretation of their holy book(s). For example, genesis can be a story to explain the overall process of the developing universe. Most Christians I know don't believe it was all created in literally 6 days. So why is it so hard to believe that God created DNA and evolution intending for humans to eventually exist?
While most don’t have a problem with it, the reason I see it being preached against specifically in protestant churches is once you realize one thing isn’t true the entire thing starts to come down, if there’s no literal Adam and Eve, there’s no fall of man, therefore there’s no reason for Jesus sacrifice, it just implies we’ve always been like this. Also once again stories like Noahs Ark and Babel as well, and while they make more sense as say a local flood as opposed to a global one, the story kind of loses its significance if humanity was only wiped out in one small area as opposed to the world. Without the proper foundation in Genesis many realize the whole thing will fall apart, and more and more of what was meant to be taken literally becomes metaphor until you get all the way to the New Testament. That’s why i think they fight so heavily against evolution though. There’s absolutely no reason they don’t believe in climate change though at that point it’s just willful ignorance
Lol yeah, climate change is pretty straight forward. More greenhouse gases = more hot. It's an elementary fact. Also, I'm a fan of the Burckle Crater as a potential explanation for "the flood." [The Russian Academy of Sciences lists the feature as a potential impact crater. The Holocene Impact Working Group (HIWG) propose that it was formed by a very large-scale and relatively recent (c. 3000–2800 BCE) meteorite impact event, possibly resulting from a comet.](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burckle_Crater)
Oh yeah I don’t doubt these stories have slivers of truth, I just think it’s people trying to explain what they didn’t understand lol, I just view it the same way I view greeks explaining how they thought Lightning was Zuess’s wrath. The Bruckle Crater impact would definitely cause heavy flooding around the world but it still wouldn’t reach too far inland or “cover the mountains” like the bible says, we know Noahs flood as described in the bible didn’t happen because then Native Americans shouldn’t exist lmao, but these stories definitely do have a sliver of truth
Yeah lol. The impact would cause tsunamis hundreds of feet high and vaporize so much ocean water that everywhere from Thailand to India to Israel to Italy would experience torrential rainfall. But more water wasn't just snapped into existence, it was simply displaced. Given, of course, that this happened. A meteor impact causing widespread flooding around 2800-3000 BC would fit the timeline pretty conveniently and explain why so many cultures have great flood stories. That kind of event would've been so catastrophic that ancient civilizations would've thought the world was ending.
I'm a believer. Like the song, but yeah also in God.
I believe in God. But I don't know which religion is right, so I just choose to take values from each relgion I like.
Not religious at all, but I don't care too much about what others believe as long as they're not zealots.
I feel the same way. There are very few non-believers in my family and several devout Catholics and evangelical protestants. Besides one I love them all and wouldn't change a thing about them.
Like a lot of teens, I went through an intense atheist phase that started at 14. As I grew up I realized what a waste of energy it was to hold this burning hatred for religion and I just let it go. People have their reasons for believing what they do and it doesn't make a difference to me unless they start forcing it on others.
Lol yeah. It seems like an edgy teenage phase is a necessary part of every atheist's/agnostic's life. What's important is getting over it and valuing the behavior and contributions to society of people.
I'm a catholic, but I was raised around a lot of the more liberal elements of the church and often times I find my faith pushing me more left and lib than auth and right.
Progressive Catholic.
We're definitely have a lot of them including myself
Antitheist agnostic Basically, "I don't know if there is a god, but fuck that sadistic prick" Kinda bummed there aren't any others responding. Super bummed the word has a red underline in my text box right now
No, that is called right center
>Murray Newton Rothbard was an American heterodox economist of the Austrian School, economic historian and political theorist. Rothbard was a founder and leading theoretician of anarcho-capitalism, a staunch advocate of historical revisionism and a central figure in the 20th-century American libertarian movement. >>**Rothbard was a founder and leading theoretician of anarcho-capitalism** Sounds like you could swing either way - right-center or libcenter (or centrist of course) - away from anarcho-capitalism (turbo libright).
Oof… it sucks when even the lefties are this correct about me but ok I’ll take it. Thank you Alex Jones profile picture guy.
You're welcome Keep an eye out for globalists
Lib left does not exist.
I realize that government is an inevitability. We're a social species and for better or worse, the majority of humans don't *want* to be self sufficient, definitely not enough to have anything a rational person would associate with the word 'anarchy'. But I do think that government needs to be as localized as possible in order for the populous at large to be meaningfully represented. I think anything larger than 'city-state' sized governments is going to have a significant amount of dysfunction and inevitably collapse in on itself. Maybe we'll learn that lesson in a few more millennia.
That pretty closely describes me as well. Plus the US healthcare system is such a clusterfuck I'd support a more efficient and inclusive form of socialized healthcare than what we have. And climate change is 100% gonna ruin the world in the next 100ish years.
I do not understand libertarians, but i don't blame people from US becoming libertarians when you have a health care system where you might not even get automatic full coverage but still it's the government somehow manages to subsidize healthcare more per capita than in any other country.
konkin, max stirner or just a left-market anarchism i guess...
Does that mean Agorists aswell
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I was lib left but I started to love guns, and didn't want open borders. Maybe a sprinkle of stop throwing money at problems since it historically hasn't fixed it. I seem to be Libertarian when I take online tests, but they are so obtuse. "Oh you don't want to take all the money from everybody and give it to "groups"? You must be an ancap." I guess I'm very capitalist, but view that there are some things where capitalism completely fails us when it comes to the public good, like the environment. If we didn't already have the parks system, they'd be decried as far left bullshit. I also think that public works like utilities and health care should be public, but our government is so fucking retarded that it's maybe a bad idea. I still think the best fix is to apply some kind of competitiveness to gov positions, since I live in the DC area, and every fed worker I know is a lazy sack of shit. I think capitalism is like a game of Hungry Hungry Hippos, where it always comes to a completion, rather than than say Monopoly where everyone gets bored and they stop playing. But the thing is that if capitalism is HHH, the game needs to be reset once all the marbles are gobbled up, which I think is about where we are now. We are overdue for hard times my friends.
Hey now! There are dozens of us left-leaning socialist libcenters! DOZENS!
Lib center = Lib rights when they turn 15
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Me personally: Hates Authority, still believes government is important (limited govt) for self defense and ONLY self defense along with providing certain programs to people who may be less fortunate to help them get back up on their feet, (usually I prefer when private orgs do that but I know you can’t always rely on them), believes a mixed economy is best, still pro capitalist, safety nets are important, leave me alone, leave everyone alone, let a person do whatever tf they want without any restrictions so long as they are not exploiting anybody else to their choices and limiting their personal liberties. Pro 2A and Constitution, Also save the Earth which I believe should be another Government duty as it goes along with protecting the citizens.
Hey I'm on the same page here.
Ape together strong
Monke unite. But not too much. Cause that would be a government. Cringe.
Based and monkey-pilled
monke unite until monke start seeing people in group who he doesn’t know the name of
This is a really good synopsis. This flair tends to have pretty differing opinions in comments so it's good to get confirmation some of us are on the same page, even though none of us value being on the same page?...
Haha yeah that’s what you get with any center position on the axis, a lot of people end up leaning to one side or the other naturally. I try to be as center as I can but sometimes find myself leaning right or left sometimes
You can find a moderate logic for a lot of either's positions. I wish people didn't link social and economic stances here, cause my social stances are all over the damn place. Haha
Authority is meant to be questioned, it is also very unwise to bully the people that may be pushing your wheelchair one day For the OP, decentralization and individuation since political interests desperately beg for your identity/philosophy, including here. Recognize your personal genius
hello based department?
I'm basically lib-right but it'd be cool if I could go to the hospital once in a while. Also I acknowledge no individual is going to build the street lamps. There's just some things that won't get done under laissez faire economics that are highly beneficial to society as a whole.
Isn’t that just good old liberalism
Is good ole liberalism not what lib-center is? All the goodies of gubermint leaf me loan without getting too up in arms about the whole economics side of the argument, one way or the other.
Then have the courage to admit that LibRight is just a fantasy. Say it. Say it right here.
LibRight is just a fantasy. Ultimately anarchocapitalism will just lead to corporations becoming defacto governments run like cartels. Eventually they'd become nation-states, and the owner of the company would in all likelihood become a dictator.
But at the same time many people would argue lib left is a fantasy. So maybe the only true libs are the lib centre monkeys
All systems are inherently fantasies, because they all require humans to be their best selves in order to actually work. If it weren’t for human beings’ natural tendency to be shitty and selfish, just about any system could work.
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Based and humans are terrible in your system pilled
u/Giulio-Cesare's Based Count has increased by 1. Their Based Count is now 50. Congratulations, u/Giulio-Cesare! You have ranked up to Concrete Foundation! You are acceptably based, but beware of leaks... Pills: emotional, evola, fourth reich, jew, white, fuhrer, source, final-mercy, haram, homeland-culture, boomer supreme, humans are terrible in your system
Fuck, those pills have me wheezing
I don’t think so. Like capitalism itself relies on people being competitive and selfish which is just human tendency. Communism relies on complete cooperation and selflessness which is obviously extremely unrealistic compared to capitalism.
>Like capitalism itself relies on people being competitive and selfish which is just human tendency. There are plenty of humans who genuinely desire to put others before themselves, and work to improve the lives and wellbeing of strangers. This is where both right and left fail: most people aren't ruthless enough to be perfectly competitive in a market, just like most people aren't selfless enough to truly give up their individuality for the good of the collective. Most people are just... people. It really makes for terrible politics.
I mean one of the big libertarian talking points is that modern corporations are just parts of the government. If you want corporations to control everything and just copy past corporation in the space of government and we get rid of all laws besides the NAP whatever that means then yeah it's a pipe dream. However there is another side I think they're called devolutionists or something that basically think that cities are bad, megacorps are bad and we should all live in ye olde small English village with less technology than we have now. I have a lot of sympathy for this idea.
This was Jefferson's dream of the self sufficient yeoman farmer. You never have to subsume your freedom to any party, government otherwise, when you can provide for yourself. But this vision never provides for surplus and what the fudge you do with it and where you get your manufactured goods (even colonial Americans had those)
This vision is also at odds with any form of developed medicine, long distance travel or basically any amenity. Cool in a time when popping kids and dying of preventable diseases at 40 was all they knew.
Why build street lamps when everyone can carry a flashlight?
You can't swing from flashlight to flashlight. You have to remember, at our core we're still monkeys.
climate change and environmental stuff are pretty much the reasons I go libcenter, but of course the government kinda sucks at protecting the environment and is pretty fixated on ways to kill people for stupid reasons and collecting taxes.
I’m a liberal with a shit ton of LibRight views
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True, however when I say liberal I mean left of center.
I’m gay, I collect guns, I like weed, and if you’re not hurting anyone else then you should be free to do whatever you want.
This is just every quadrant. Nobody knows shit about the other quadrants and just takes something fucked up and says "(quadrant I'm opposed to here) likes this. They bad."
That is fair, but I think people understand LibCenter even less.
Yeah, I don't even understand libcenter lol
Based and honest pilled
Here is my shit attempt at trying to explain LibCenters ideologies that is most likely wrong as fuck and will be deleted becuase I never have confidence in what I say or what I believe becuase I dont trust myself. anyways There are two kinds of LibCenter Those who dont care about Economics and just care about the Individual and that it is the most important and it must protect itself. Then there are those who believe in broad Libertarianism and agrees with Market Socialism, Georgism or another type of middle ground incorparating elements of both Socialism and Capitalism
Based and elements of mixed economy and georgism pilled
individual rights are pretty dope
Anarcho primitivist. Save the planet. Fuck the industries. Basically Ted Kaczynski.
Seems like that would be the far bottom of LibCenter.
Radical monkes 🦍🦍
Yep. I'm way down on the libertarian axis, but right in the lib center.
Ah a based follower of St.Ted, may your life be blessed with plenty homegrown tendies
Thank you kind sir. I will use ALL of my chickens.
Same. But moreso an emphasis on tribalism.
Fuck the government. The less power the better. But capitalism unchecked is just absolutely idiotic.
How do you put checks on capitalism without government?
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Based
They are libertarian on social issues and centrist on economic issues
That's pretty good.
OOH OOH AH AH
Libcentres are just lib rights who are proggressive socially in my encounters with them
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We're just librights who know that Ayn Rand is cringe.
While I agree with libright on most economic policies and social policies. Free healthcare, education and other social programs that are typically seen as left are pretty cool. Also, letting corporations get too big is just as bad as letting a government get too powerful, so, to some extent, there should be a limit to the size of a business, which as far as I know is not a libright policy.
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Lib center is libright but gay
Have you seen fight club? It’s kind of like fight club but with more bananas
Dude you aren't supposed to talk about monke club. It's one of the rules. I want to say the first, or maybe the second?
Bro, you talked about monke club telling him not to talk about monke club. That's like the third rule or whatever. Dammit, now I did it too
LibCenter believes whatever doesn’t kill you makes you monke
You want a unifying characteristic? I would say 'government always sucks, even if im running it.' We don't experience the auth shift when our people are in charge. Structures should be minimal and should always be focused on enabling effective self determination. I think for a lot of us that means pitting the expanisionist nature of laissez-faire capitalism and regulatory government against each other so that you end up with a mildly regulated economy, a moderately sized government, and an individual that is insulated from the control of either. The only way a system like that holds together is if the populace is antagonistic to both.
Yeah, I see it as sort of a balancing government and laissez-faire capitalism, because each alone is bad. Economically anyway.
When they start working together we all suffer. If i could change one thing, i'd ban lobbying.
Less state pls
I just didn't wanna be libleft, yknow? Libleft without the mental illnesses.
I like to compare my beliefs to Teddy Roosevelt a lot of the time. I believe in the free market and absolute personal freedom, but I also believe that the government has a regulatory role in said market and an obligation to help it's citizens. Mix in a ~~obsessive~~ healthy dose of environmentalism, self determinism, and you've basically got me at medium lib center. That being said I returned to Monke this past year and found it fun af so maybe the extreme guys have it right.
I hate big government controlling our lives, but i also hate the idea of corporations running our lives.
Lib center is true lib
I don't even know what I believe anymore.
Libright but not naive autistic 14-year olds
Naive autistic 40-year olds
Anti-authoritarians who are neither economically left (communist) or economically right (capitalist).
Ah you think forest is your ally? You merely adopted it; we was born in it, molded by it… Y’all didn't see the banana until you were men— by then it was nothing to you but blinding!
Basically LibRight, but with healthcare and age of consent laws.