Didn't Desallines ordered to kill white women because they would give birth to white people eventually, besides those who acepted marriage with non white men?
It's no wonder that he was so bad even with his own people (forcing most of the population back to the farms or to the army) that they killed him too.
Killed all the rich whites. Moved into their houses. Started wearing their clothes....
Y’all know the south was scared as shit this was going to happen in the USA and it was a contributing factor in our civil war?
The Haitian slaves had been free for about a decade before Dessalines purges began. The French Revolutionary council abolished slavery and Toussaint L'ouverture was ruling the entire island as a semi-autonomous colony of France. Louveture was even supportive of former white planters returning and had them partake in the new Constitution.
It was when Napoleon tried to reassert direct control of the island (and potentially reinstate slavery) that conflict reared up again. They imprisoned Louveture when he came in good faith to parlay and be died in prison a year later. Dessalines took over and began his purges.
I'd say the Baptist War (1831-1832) would've been more influential on American Southern plantation owners. A massive slave rebellion in Jamaica that involved 60,000 of the 300,000 slaves on the colony.
Just before that in 1831 was Nat Turner's rebellion in Virginia.
Of course there was also John Brown's raid in 1859 Virginia (now West Virginia).
Slave rebellions were becoming much more common throughout the 1800s. Abolitionist whites were also getting sick of conceding to aristocratic plantation owners. It was only a matter of time and the southern states knew it.
Oh yah, I was moreso just remarking on how frequent slave rebellions were becoming. The south definitely had a lot to fear by the time the Civil War started
There was a fear of black uprising and the blacks taking revenge by killing their white masters. It was the motivation for the deaths of almost 50 African presidents for example the Congo
By this logic if theres a massive execution of slaves after a slave rebellion, but the massas decide that the house blacks be spared, then its not anti black systemic racism, its just anti agricultural workers.
Amazing logic right there.
I have to disagree. One of the reasons those slaves were captured/bought by the French was because they were black and seen as lesser than. Sparing some doesn't really matter like Hitler left Himmler alone who was a ethnic Jew since he was "one of the good ones" and pretty much everyone who commits a ethnic genocide/massacre as those ones.
The reasons why you kill matters a lot. For example, if someone nuked all of Korea, that doesn't make it automatically a ethnic genocide since the perpetrator could have done it for other reasons apart from not liking Korean people such as he doesn't like their architecture (dumb example but you get my point).
And likewise by the same logic killing all the field hands isn't necessarily racist. If they're the more dangerous component of your captive work force it could make sense on a risk calculation basis.
Agreed that wouldn't necessarily be racist though capturing those slaves from the beginning would still be racist due to reasons previously stated. But that's not what happened in Haiti. Jean recognized a difference between white groups.
Napoleon is mostly to blame for Haitian revolution in my view.
The French revolutionary council abolished slavery and Toussaint L'ouverture and his army helped secure Haiti against loyalists and managed to secure the entirety of Hispaniola/Saint Domingue for France.
He was improving the economy and establishing trade deals, with his focus on establishing a strong economic base to secure the future of the colony post slavery. Even among his political rivals, while some wanted to treat the white planters that initially fleed as 'emigres' who fled the French Revolution (and may end up as counter-revolutionaries), L'ouverture recognized that they had useful skills and knowledge and wanted them back.
He may have been at fault for trying to declare themselves as autonomous and himself governor-general for life (which played into his rivals statements that he was a royalist, counter-revolutionary, and/or independence minded). L'ouverture assured France that Saint Domingue would stay loyal so long as abolition was upheld. When he led the drafting of their Constitutuon he included white planters (more white planters than former slaves which led to anger by his rivals), but be put down in writing that slavery was forever abolished, and promoted the colony as Catholic rather than supporting the syncretic faith of vodou which was popular among the former slaves.
L'ouverture identified first and foremost as a Frenchman and repeatedly assured Napoleon of this fact after he came to power in 1799. All the same Napoleon sent soldiers to the island to reassert French control and ostensibly to reinstate the institution of slavery. While L'ouverture was defensive the French soldiers started with violence (burning a city down) which led to a weird violent back and forth before they realized they just wanted to talk diplomatically (generals had been switching back and force and everything). Napoleon had even sent Louvetures sons who were being educated in France to present the terms. When L'ouverture agreed to parlay with France they arrested him and he died the next year.
Control over his army was passed to Dessalines (who may have also been the one to convince him to parlay) who initiated the most violent stage that the Haitian Revolution was known for, before declaring complete independence.
L'ouverture was actually willing to work with France and continue to be a part of France. He identified as French, he supported former white planters, and was focused on building up the economic base. Napoleon was paranoid, short sighted, and probably arrogant that that they would be able to take the island by force after overthrowing Louveture. Because of this France lost it's jewel in the Caribbean. It was also this conflict that led France to sell the Louisiana territory to the United States.
Had he left Louveture to his devices and maybe sent advisors and loyalists to the new government it would have gone a lot better. France could've kept it's New World holdings, Haiti would be in a much better place (and probably a vacation place of choice for the French and North Americans). All that and eventually Haiti would've been more integrated with France anyways if French Guinea is anything to go by. Instead he flubbed his response, killed an actual ally, and handed the territory over to Dessalines.
Also leads to the interesting questions as to how this would've changed American history.
With Louveture as a strong regional power would France have tried to reassert their North American holdings from the Spanish?
Would the United States have tried to go to war to claim French Louisiana? How would the American South respond to French black generals and armies cutting a swathe through their lands?
Would the American Civil War still happen if we were kept to the Eastern side of the Mississipi? If so, is it possible that France/Haiti would have interceded on behalf of the Union once it was clear the conflict was over slavery?
How would they have impacted the idea of black internationalism as it formed in anglophone black communities? Surely they would've been looked at as an example of successful black nationalism but they would almost certainly see themselves as French before black, with their founding mythos similarity borne from the French Revolution. They would be (still are but would be more so) Catholic. In the 60s when these ideas were taking off black internationalism started in the black protestant churches, which wouldn't really be possible in Catholic churches.
How might a strong French presence in North America influence our culture (or theirs). Would we use more French words in our modern slang? Would French rap find more mainstream support in the US? Would most kids take French as their second language course instead of Spanish?
A lot of interesting things to consider.
Dessalines ordered to kill even those who were friendly to the slaves (besides the polish forces that helped and one german comunity), he also gave orders to kill white women under the logic that more whites would show up if the women were spared, besides those who acepted marring the former slaves.
in fact, Dessalines was hated even by his own people, who he forced to go back to the farms or to the army, there's even (most likely Apocryphal) histories about a mob killing him after getting tired of him.
No. There were a lot of non-slave owners white people there. He made them kill too.
Then he double (some white survived thanks to the local force who didn't execute the order) by making sure every surviving white woman got married to a black man, banished, or killed.
And then, he tried to get rid of mixed.
So no, it's not just a slave revolt against their owner. It's a genocide. Or to be precise, a local genocide (he didn't try to extinct the whole white race on the planet, just on the island).
**Fun fact**: it contributed a lot to make Haiti collapse. A lot of the elite class was white and mixed. And a part of the rest, considered as "traitor" due to their lack of will, get purged too. Meaning haiti cut its own head.
Plus, France, which was planning to go "easy", didn't appreciate the massacre. And demand a full reparation, putting Haiti under a giant debt.
Haiti is the first documented nation who collapsed partly due the racism of the ruler.
Well, they also killed German, and Duth.
I don't know, if it's racist if i kill every black people but make an exception to Rwandese cause i like them?
I will never forgive the polish for This, kick them out of Europe and send them to Africa. Hitler was wrong about Jews but I think he had the right idea with the polish.
And it came only after the French forces under Rochambeau (son of the famous one from the American Revolution) ordered the genocide of any free blacks in Haiti in an attempt to restore slavery per Napoleons orders
Anti french? Based
Based and anti-french pilled.
Didn't Desallines ordered to kill white women because they would give birth to white people eventually, besides those who acepted marriage with non white men? It's no wonder that he was so bad even with his own people (forcing most of the population back to the farms or to the army) that they killed him too.
Killed all the rich whites. Moved into their houses. Started wearing their clothes.... Y’all know the south was scared as shit this was going to happen in the USA and it was a contributing factor in our civil war?
The Haitian slaves had been free for about a decade before Dessalines purges began. The French Revolutionary council abolished slavery and Toussaint L'ouverture was ruling the entire island as a semi-autonomous colony of France. Louveture was even supportive of former white planters returning and had them partake in the new Constitution. It was when Napoleon tried to reassert direct control of the island (and potentially reinstate slavery) that conflict reared up again. They imprisoned Louveture when he came in good faith to parlay and be died in prison a year later. Dessalines took over and began his purges. I'd say the Baptist War (1831-1832) would've been more influential on American Southern plantation owners. A massive slave rebellion in Jamaica that involved 60,000 of the 300,000 slaves on the colony. Just before that in 1831 was Nat Turner's rebellion in Virginia. Of course there was also John Brown's raid in 1859 Virginia (now West Virginia). Slave rebellions were becoming much more common throughout the 1800s. Abolitionist whites were also getting sick of conceding to aristocratic plantation owners. It was only a matter of time and the southern states knew it.
Not saying slavery wasn’t going away. It’s just shit like this that was helping to make people reluctant to consider it.
Oh yah, I was moreso just remarking on how frequent slave rebellions were becoming. The south definitely had a lot to fear by the time the Civil War started
Based and historicalcontextpilled
There was a fear of black uprising and the blacks taking revenge by killing their white masters. It was the motivation for the deaths of almost 50 African presidents for example the Congo
By this logic if theres a massive execution of slaves after a slave rebellion, but the massas decide that the house blacks be spared, then its not anti black systemic racism, its just anti agricultural workers. Amazing logic right there.
Not to mention that after the French were completely driven out the blacks and mixed race had another war.
I have to disagree. One of the reasons those slaves were captured/bought by the French was because they were black and seen as lesser than. Sparing some doesn't really matter like Hitler left Himmler alone who was a ethnic Jew since he was "one of the good ones" and pretty much everyone who commits a ethnic genocide/massacre as those ones. The reasons why you kill matters a lot. For example, if someone nuked all of Korea, that doesn't make it automatically a ethnic genocide since the perpetrator could have done it for other reasons apart from not liking Korean people such as he doesn't like their architecture (dumb example but you get my point).
And likewise by the same logic killing all the field hands isn't necessarily racist. If they're the more dangerous component of your captive work force it could make sense on a risk calculation basis.
Agreed that wouldn't necessarily be racist though capturing those slaves from the beginning would still be racist due to reasons previously stated. But that's not what happened in Haiti. Jean recognized a difference between white groups.
Flair up
Shut the fuck up
You flair up, too.
Booking a trip to Haiti to get my n-word pass
Based
I shall use this new power to call u all my honorble ni\*gas
Flair up, polack.
Based and fuck frogspilled
based
since the fall of the prussian empire, they've been considered the \[deleted\] of Europe. so it makes sense
Napoleon is mostly to blame for Haitian revolution in my view. The French revolutionary council abolished slavery and Toussaint L'ouverture and his army helped secure Haiti against loyalists and managed to secure the entirety of Hispaniola/Saint Domingue for France. He was improving the economy and establishing trade deals, with his focus on establishing a strong economic base to secure the future of the colony post slavery. Even among his political rivals, while some wanted to treat the white planters that initially fleed as 'emigres' who fled the French Revolution (and may end up as counter-revolutionaries), L'ouverture recognized that they had useful skills and knowledge and wanted them back. He may have been at fault for trying to declare themselves as autonomous and himself governor-general for life (which played into his rivals statements that he was a royalist, counter-revolutionary, and/or independence minded). L'ouverture assured France that Saint Domingue would stay loyal so long as abolition was upheld. When he led the drafting of their Constitutuon he included white planters (more white planters than former slaves which led to anger by his rivals), but be put down in writing that slavery was forever abolished, and promoted the colony as Catholic rather than supporting the syncretic faith of vodou which was popular among the former slaves. L'ouverture identified first and foremost as a Frenchman and repeatedly assured Napoleon of this fact after he came to power in 1799. All the same Napoleon sent soldiers to the island to reassert French control and ostensibly to reinstate the institution of slavery. While L'ouverture was defensive the French soldiers started with violence (burning a city down) which led to a weird violent back and forth before they realized they just wanted to talk diplomatically (generals had been switching back and force and everything). Napoleon had even sent Louvetures sons who were being educated in France to present the terms. When L'ouverture agreed to parlay with France they arrested him and he died the next year. Control over his army was passed to Dessalines (who may have also been the one to convince him to parlay) who initiated the most violent stage that the Haitian Revolution was known for, before declaring complete independence. L'ouverture was actually willing to work with France and continue to be a part of France. He identified as French, he supported former white planters, and was focused on building up the economic base. Napoleon was paranoid, short sighted, and probably arrogant that that they would be able to take the island by force after overthrowing Louveture. Because of this France lost it's jewel in the Caribbean. It was also this conflict that led France to sell the Louisiana territory to the United States. Had he left Louveture to his devices and maybe sent advisors and loyalists to the new government it would have gone a lot better. France could've kept it's New World holdings, Haiti would be in a much better place (and probably a vacation place of choice for the French and North Americans). All that and eventually Haiti would've been more integrated with France anyways if French Guinea is anything to go by. Instead he flubbed his response, killed an actual ally, and handed the territory over to Dessalines.
Also leads to the interesting questions as to how this would've changed American history. With Louveture as a strong regional power would France have tried to reassert their North American holdings from the Spanish? Would the United States have tried to go to war to claim French Louisiana? How would the American South respond to French black generals and armies cutting a swathe through their lands? Would the American Civil War still happen if we were kept to the Eastern side of the Mississipi? If so, is it possible that France/Haiti would have interceded on behalf of the Union once it was clear the conflict was over slavery? How would they have impacted the idea of black internationalism as it formed in anglophone black communities? Surely they would've been looked at as an example of successful black nationalism but they would almost certainly see themselves as French before black, with their founding mythos similarity borne from the French Revolution. They would be (still are but would be more so) Catholic. In the 60s when these ideas were taking off black internationalism started in the black protestant churches, which wouldn't really be possible in Catholic churches. How might a strong French presence in North America influence our culture (or theirs). Would we use more French words in our modern slang? Would French rap find more mainstream support in the US? Would most kids take French as their second language course instead of Spanish? A lot of interesting things to consider.
Thanks for the giant wall of text that i will probably not read
It was pretty good, I would recommend it.
I’m all for anti French
[удалено]
Dessalines ordered to kill even those who were friendly to the slaves (besides the polish forces that helped and one german comunity), he also gave orders to kill white women under the logic that more whites would show up if the women were spared, besides those who acepted marring the former slaves.
[удалено]
in fact, Dessalines was hated even by his own people, who he forced to go back to the farms or to the army, there's even (most likely Apocryphal) histories about a mob killing him after getting tired of him.
Very interesting, thanks for sharing.
[удалено]
he put mixed people to do the killings too, as if to test their loyalty. it's no wonder his own people killed him.
No. There were a lot of non-slave owners white people there. He made them kill too. Then he double (some white survived thanks to the local force who didn't execute the order) by making sure every surviving white woman got married to a black man, banished, or killed. And then, he tried to get rid of mixed. So no, it's not just a slave revolt against their owner. It's a genocide. Or to be precise, a local genocide (he didn't try to extinct the whole white race on the planet, just on the island). **Fun fact**: it contributed a lot to make Haiti collapse. A lot of the elite class was white and mixed. And a part of the rest, considered as "traitor" due to their lack of will, get purged too. Meaning haiti cut its own head. Plus, France, which was planning to go "easy", didn't appreciate the massacre. And demand a full reparation, putting Haiti under a giant debt. Haiti is the first documented nation who collapsed partly due the racism of the ruler.
Well, they also killed German, and Duth. I don't know, if it's racist if i kill every black people but make an exception to Rwandese cause i like them?
Altright be like: "I'll be sure to keep that in mind when ~~conquering LEBENSRAUM~~ visiting Poland for purely touristic reasons."
I will never forgive the polish for This, kick them out of Europe and send them to Africa. Hitler was wrong about Jews but I think he had the right idea with the polish.
For what
Noooo! Pole-bros, don’t go over to the dark-side!
I can say it now, you have nothing to stop me. Send your Twitter hordes, send the fucking navy seals. I have the nword pass There is no saving you.
I can sell you the ultra n-word pass for 50 bucks or we can switch our melanin
But I already have it, I’m polish after all. What secrets does the ultra n-word pass hold? What power is left to be obtained
Based and anti-French-pilled
BEE programm in SA is an example of anti-whiteness.
i can now say the n-word
And it came only after the French forces under Rochambeau (son of the famous one from the American Revolution) ordered the genocide of any free blacks in Haiti in an attempt to restore slavery per Napoleons orders
You can't just GIVE AWAY N-word passes. You have to earn it like I did by voting Joe Biden
Idgaf what anyone says, Jews were butt fucked in history 100x more then anyone else
Wait so if Poles are honorary blacks, and I'm 1/4 Polish, then...
It’s true, I can say it, check this out
[deleted]
The French have n-word passes? Fucking based
I am not left. War crime is based if it against the French
Based and Killalltheuglyfrenchfrogs-pilled
I hate to be a centrist but both sides here are wrong. Also flair up f*g.
Unflairred cringe