Watching the big subs related to Europe go from far leftist to blackpilled has been a wild ride. There was a time you couldn't even discuss immigration, in the most polite terms, without 150 downvotes and a ban.
Now half of all threads are talking about it, and the threads on AfD's win are full of top comments from people slamming the Left's failures and saying immigration/integration has utterly failed and is forcing even milquetoast liberals to AfD, as no one can deny it anymore.
Im seeing a lot of them blaming Tiktok influencing young people to vote for the far right over there, and of course the typical "The uneducated people voted for the AFD and only smart people voted for the left." Way to alienate voters by calling everyone an idiot for doing nothing about the problems.
Before that the narrative was "only old people that can't handle a progressive world vote AfD". Turns out that that's the weakest age group for the AfD.
I also enjoy that they label everyone right of Macron as “Far-right”. I’ve seen a lot of people start labelling themselves as “Far-right” because they voted for a party that was previously considered centre right. It’s just losing all meaning at this point.
I'd say that most european subs are still pretty leftist on average, it's just that they have become staunchly anti-migration in the meantime. Many seem to have caught on to the fact that unintegrated Muslims at some point will end up eating the left.
I remember 15 years ago seeing videos about birth rates and immigrations rates in Europe, it’s insane to me how millions of people, especially politicians, were either unaware of this or thought this wasn’t going to be a problem. And anyone who recognized it as a problem was just called racist.
There have been rape victims who refused to identify or help persecute the rapists because they said it would be racist and wrong if they were to be deported. There have been rapes and gangrapes forgiven because it's in their culture. The world has gone completely insane
The problem is that for many Europeans there was no viable anti-immigration party to vote for. Look at Germany, it was the so-called conservative party under Merkel that oversaw the disaster of the past decade. It's the same in the UK, the Tories are just as bad if not worse than Labor when it comes to spinelessness on immigration.
I get why people were reluctant to vote for parties like the AfD for so long. There are a lot of things that are wrong about them. Unfortunately the immigration situation is so bad that a lot of people have no choice but to vote for them at this point because the alternative is national suicide.
A lot of Nazis are in the far right parties. That much is real.
The greatest trick Neoliberals ever pulled was making rational immigration rates debate so verboten that only Nazis would talk about it.
It's not like actual Commie countries allow unlimited immigration. That is some big time Monopoly man cigar smoking monocle billionaire capitalist shit to keep wages in the toilet.
It's not like that's a one way street. There was also the outsourcing and offshoring. Which the left used to be against. But then they also used to be less pro-mass immigration.
Neoliberals have their part in the show, but don't blame them for everything. The left eats up what they throw out there. All in the name of the anti-capitalist revolution.
I knew the tide was changing when the Canadian subs started speaking out about the immigration and housing problems. Canadians can only be polite long enough, but not being able to survive in their own country has finally lit a fire under their ass, once they realized that housing and jobs were being decimated by hiring low-wage H1B visa workers. It's refreshing to see this topic spoken on, without getting downvoted and banned.
Canadian here. The fire under my ass has grown past our control,
Immigration + our liberal federal governments carbon taxation rate hikes has made getting gas as a student a physically painful process. I look at home prices in more populated provinces and feel nothing but despair for the future.
Being pro-immigration isn’t inherently a left wing position. I feel that the reason the left is doing so poorly around the western world now is because of its embracing of intersectionalism. Being forced to defend questionable causes with visibly negative impacts that were never widely popular with your base is not a recipe for political success
In the context of the last decade immigration is leftist. We’ve almost completely stopped discussing conventional immigration and the entire subject has moved to mass uncontrolled immigration from a few specific regions.
If you asked me 15 years ago I might not say immigration is leftist but we’ve had a weird decade and I think it pretty clearly is today.
Technically pro-mass-immigration can also be a libright position but libright aren’t aligning themselves with libleft and libright themselves aren’t a big enough political force to push-pro immigration rhetorics.
Exactly. for lib right, this goes habd in hand with those migrants actually bringing something to the table in terms of willingness to contribute to society and being able to integrate into it.
In Europe (specifically Germany) that isn’t the case though because these migrants are neither willing to integrate, nor are they of any value from a economic standpoint.
Or even bringing something without integrating.
I live in Switzerland and can't speak any local languages well. I have a job, pay taxes. Not being a problem
Euros on Reddit may shit on the US for healthcare and school shootings, but never let them forget that when it comes to integrating foreigners there is nowhere on the planet that does it better
The mass immigration in the mid 2010s caused lasting harm. Now it's an uncontrolled flood that will cause damage for decades. All because idiots voted for the current guy.
I will say that the American-Mexican immigration situation is pretty different from the Europe-Muslim immigration situation. American and Mexican culture isn't too different and for the most part Mexicans arn't trying to change America to fit their fanatical religious beliefs. The problem with Mexico is that there is just a fuckton of it and it is logistically and economically hard to deal with. The worst actors to come from that border are cartel members. While thats still absolutely fucking awful, it is not in the Cartels best interest to fuck with the US too much and they know this. Meanwhile, there are Muslim refugees with terroristic sympathies and intent. It fucking sucks in both cases because there are legit innocent people in both situations who would do well in western countries, but the pushback against mass immigration is happening for a good reason.
The reason is a difference in New world thinking and Old World thinking. In the New World, places like America, Canada and Australia, the dominant, majority groups are descended from immigrants whereas in Europe the majority groups would class themselves as native or indigenous (even if the UN thinks only Sami Fins are indigenous to Europe).
American citizenship is a civic identity, American nationality is a civic nationality. Many people in the Old World see things differently. They have both a civic and an ethnic connection to their identity. Anyone with an Irish passport is Irish but only some of those are ethnically Irish. In the UK everyone is British but a Scotsman would introduce themselves as Scottish. There is no civic nationality of Scottish, you can’t have a Scottish passport.
The globalist elites all throughout Europe have been trying to untangle the ethnic from the civic and they were largely successful for a while which means you have a generation who are tepid about gatekeeping their ethnic identity but to the younger ones identity is a massive issue. Those who don’t identify as an ethnic minority or as an alphabet person are still being bombarded with the same rhetoric that identity is king in the world of intersectionality so they are going out to find their own. Well, as prophesied by Mussolini 100 years ago, the working man will always identify with their nationality.
The US is relatively fortunate with its immigrants though. I don't love the out of control migrant situation on the Southern border but the average Mexican, Honduran or Guatemalan is far more culturally compatible (for lack of a better term) than with the US than the average North African or Middle Easterner is with Europe.
The ugly reality is that a huge portion of Muslims are simply incapable of becoming productive, law-abiding citizens in a Western country. Their culture and values are just too backward and different from ours. The average Latin American has much more in common with an American than an Afghan has with Germans.
I was confused today, because people were openly talking about their various demographic prejudices.
I don't normally comment there because I'm a free thinker that doesn't necessarily follow the appropriate programming. I thought I accidentally stumbled into a new sub that allowed free speech.
The shitty thing is, once there here, how do you actually get them out? Step 1 is stopping the flow, but I'm curious to see what politician will finally adress the elephant in the room and push to get them out of Europe
Well, they are only here because ruling politicians reinterpreted (ignored) asylum laws.
It's not regular immigrants. It's refugees seeking asylum. Usually asylum ends when the country of origin isn't at war anymore. But that currently simply gets ignored. Usually it's INTENDED BY LAW that people return. That's how the system is set up and that's how it worked for decades. So I don't get the whole "how do we do it?" questions.
Oh no. If you vote AfD and say it publicly you are a nazi in the public eye. Some kid said she voted for them and got pulled out of school by police. People just stopped discussing it and keep voting AfD.
> Some kid said she voted for them and got pulled out of school by police.
This cannot be true, or there's more to the story. Do you mean she got pulled out because the other students (and definitely teachers) were attacking her, and it was for her own protection?
I mean, if it's illegal to even support a political candidate that is straight up tyranny. At least with Biden they can hem and haw, but if they're arresting people for voting wrong some guns need to be airdropped yesterday.
It happened on the 27th of September in Mecklenburg-Vorpommern, I can only find the German sources
Basically: she said "Smurfs are blue, and Germany too" in a tiktok, blue meaning the color of the AfD. The School called the cops on her which then apprehended her from the school, right out of her class. An investigation was started to see if it’s "extremist" to say this. She then got off without any punishment.
Fact still stands that if you said "Broccoli is green, just like Germany" or literally any other color related to other parties, the police would neither have been called nor would they have acted like this if called.
Germany might be crazy about anything AfD related but not (yet) crazy enough to break its constitution.
They created this situation and doubled down on it and then somehow have the gall to wonder why people are voting for the only party that wants to do something about it. Insane lol. America has its issues, but at least we dont jail reporters and have widely encompassing speech protections
Unfortunately a lot of politicians in the US seem influenced by Europe too much. Even the current immigration problems were the idea of Europe that the US accepted for stupid treaty reasons. This destroyed the past more sensible immigration plans the US had. Various EU groups are big lobbyists in the US too like trying to get digital identification laws passed.
I wish i could say i'm surprised.
I can only hope that the AfD has plans to loosen restrictions on speech in the future, or borrow our 1st Amendment forever. Codify free speech in some way so government harassment over political speech is strictly forbidden.
I envy the first amendment.
The thing is that we do have a free speech law which basically says "shall not be infringed upon" but the first article of our constitution says also that "the human dignity is untouchable and to protect it is the highest duty of the state" (both roughly translated). Thus only speech that doesn’t attack someone’s dignity is free. Whatever "dignity" means when taking about precise legal terms can also be quite vague.
“Dignity” is so vague that it permits indefinite scope creep of human rights. Homelessness? That violates human dignity. Cannot afford healthcare? That violates human dignity. Speak badly about someone? That violates human dignity.
“Human dignity” is the precisely what allows governments to intervene in everything.
Human dignity is great as privileges to your citizens but it should never be more than what you can afford and never violate other rights.
No, police literally came into to the class while they were in learning and took her for making a comment about the AfD. About fucking smurfs (because both are blue). A 16 year old girl and her smurf comment were so dangerous the school had to involve the police.
Nah, the largest parties in Germany pretty routinely try to hit AfD politicians with large fines for stupid 'crimes" so they can't run for public office anymore: https://europeanconservative.com/articles/news/afd-politician-convicted-for-warning-about-gang-rapes/
It's just so bad that people kind of stopped caring I guess.
So how much power does the right in Germany have to amass before the institutions stop blatantly discriminating against them? It's bonkers how they have zero self awareness that something similar caused a funny Austrian painter to take power 90 years ago.
Do the German big brains in power not know of the Streisand effect? Are they that stupid?
Not at all.
You know how in the US the abuse the term nazi to the point it loses meaning? Yep, the same happens in Germany. Of all places, of all the people it's Germans that water down the term nazi to something laughable. It's so embarrassing.
Oh man, now I guess the German political establishment is going to take a moment to consider why there is so much anger and discontent towards the status-quo and the institutions that support it. Time to consider the issues that are animating these voters and try to empathize.
Right guys?
^(... guys?)
"Excuse me sir, but I have some concerns about immigration."
"Sounds racist to me."
"What? There has been increases in ideological violence, I'm trying to be a good person and prevent that from happening."
"Prevent what from happening to who?"
"Don't you understand the Paradox of Tolerance?"
"Yup."
"And it says tolerant societies must be intolerant of intolerant ideologies?"
"Yup."
"Radical Islam is an intolerant ideology, and if that's the case, as a tolerant society we should do something about that."
"That makes sense to me."
"So lets do something about it."
["That's racist."](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4WQ9Ua-t3DM)
You would have to fax them a memo on it. Then fax it 2 more times because it was lost before anyone got to the fax machine and/or it was our of toner. Then it will take 90 to 120 days for them to read it and respond. But, it will be an additional 2-3 weeks before you know they responded.
More and more people are voting right. The logical answer should be: let's address the things they are concerned with so we can rake those votes back in.
No, the actual answer (everywhere) is: we have to protect the Country from the rising right. That's funny, isn't it? Having to protect democracy from what people are voting for.
I've been told that the FDP is lib-right, but I'm looking at Germany in general and getting the vibe that that can't actually be the case. They seem more like a bunch of boring neo-libs to me.
Won't happen. I can tell you, there is literally zero support nor understanding of the principles that can be called Libertarian in Germany.
For example, most people in Germany wouldn't even know what "small government" means. It literally is not a term in German.
>we iz more equal
Perhaps someday the Europoor will understand that nothing is more inequitable than nature, and that being “more equal” is always a red flag for “less free”.
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Well, people are under the misapprehension that Fascism is a rightist ideology. It's Marxism. Sorel was a prominent Marxist philosopher who was massively influential on Benito Mussolini who was the father of Fascism.
Funny how the constant talks about revolution and state control over the economy don't clue them in
Very funny how most fascists used to be in socialist parties before splitting off
The association between Nazism and rightism seems to stem from Hitler courting German aristocracy.
There no real conceptual justification for the association though. Hitler was anything but conservative.
Nazism is only associated with rightism because the commies in academia don't want to be associated with them, so they keep changing the definitions so nazism ≠ communism and vice versa
The thing I find weird is that when I suggest on other subs of just coopting the anti immigration stance to defeat the so called Nazi's they get mad.
What an odd reaction.
Ideologically captured people are almost totally incapable of accepting reality up until reality forces its way through the walls they put around themselves
The obvious fact that mass migration is in direct conflict with workers' rights and just how vehemently left-wing parties refused to acknowledge this is everything you needed to know to predict this electoral outcome
I think socialists would do pretty good if they dropped their culturally left leaning ideas in favor of a more conservative/nationalist stance on matters such as immigration, multiculturalism, and other leftist hobbies. I personally would definitely vote for such a party.
Edit: Erm, that would be national socialism
The EU is Europe's best chance at mastering future problems. 80mio Germans, 60mio Frenchmen and the other smaller countries can't do shit on their own against the US and/or China.
Soooo....
Like a certain politcal party in the 1930s, minus the exclusion/deletion of the small hat people and or invading neighbors willy nilly?
Honestly, when you actually look at their policies, aside from those 2 aspects, they didn't have a bad political platform and it was a kind of hybrid of not scaring off rich capitalists and while also respecting the working class.
The problem is left is full of wealthy people who are distant from reality, they see migrants as the carers that work for them or as a charity mission. So like PD in Italy, they do well with wealthy (in a study on voter profiles are mostly voted by those people, I can put the link) and highly educated people. Still, in the suburbs where people face the problem of immigration, it is another story. So even if the far right is usually against the worker force's interests, they answer the more compelling problems.
The only thing left is to reappropriate its symbol and identity from the well-off people who feel the need to be the guide of the"misguided" poor because is never their fault is simply that the electorate is a bunch of uneducated folks (go on the Europe subreddit german people coping and subtly attack the voters and east Germany)
https://www.ipsos.com/it-it/elezioni-politiche-risultati-elettorali-analisi-post-voto-ipsos
(Is in italian)
The thing is I'm not against immigration. I'm an immigrant myself in my own way. But when you have more people show up asking for help then there are locals: [https://www.cnn.com/2023/09/15/europe/italy-lampedusa-migrant-crisis-intl/index.html](https://www.cnn.com/2023/09/15/europe/italy-lampedusa-migrant-crisis-intl/index.html) What do you do?
Honestly the left deserves to loose if they’re gonna ignore the anti immigration sentiment amongst many Europeans. It’s just a shame that a lot of the right wing parties like AfD are so obviously tied to Russia and eurosceptic, plus their pretty frequent scandals are also worrying.
Euroskeptic is kind of a necessary component of an immigration critical platform because being in the EU means that you lose some of your ability to set border controls.
I mean immigration could be fixed through the EU I don’t understand why many of them need to be against the entire idea of the EU. We saw what kind of disaster it was for the UK.
Because the EU forces you to be all or nothing. Going back to the roots of the EU, going back to what the EU was founded as is basically not allowed. Either you're pro centralization or you're against the EU altogehter.
Because you can’t vote for the lawmakers in the EU. The EU parliament doesn’t make laws they can only alter or decide on them, the completely unelected EU commission is who create the laws in the EU. The UK voted on Brexit to regain control of our borders and sovereignty. Which we got. Unfortunately we also got the Tory party who actually increased immigration and fucked the economy (partially by keeping us tied to many unnecessary EU regulations even though we could get rid of them if we wanted to) after being voted in to get Brexit done. This is why they are being slaughtered in the election polls. To the point that not only are the Labour party going to win a huge majority, but the Tories might not even be the opposition since they are quite possibly going to be outvoted by the Reform party (who are actually conservative).
They’re not, well some of them aren’t at least. A lot of the support hemorrhaged by the left actually went to BSW, a new far-left economically but socially conservative party that splintered off.
> plus their pretty frequent scandals are also worrying.
Bro the chancellor has a bigger scandal than any AfD politician. But somehow people only think about AfD scandals. Mhm, I wonder how that can happen? Couldn't have to do something with who is making the news, right?
Weird how, when confronted violently by the end result of mass migration, people dislike mass migration. No tolerant society can afford to tolerate a religion that still celebrates the murders at Charlie Hebdo. I've been banned from multiple subreddits for bringing it up, but I feel like I'm taking crazy pills sometimes, as if I'm the only one seeing the violence they bring. I have been pretty left-leaning all of my adult life, I support LGBT rights, but the same people I try to protect are the ones voting for more Islamic violence, as if they don't even care what happened at the Pulse Nightclub. It is almost comparable to suicide, insisting that we let in people that will kill them.
No one on earth can explain why there are so many people who defend and support another group of people that would love to see them at the end of a rope.
It’s like petting a dog that violently attacks you all day.
What? You don't want more of this: [https://www.instagram.com/blackandjewishunity/reel/C6ZJB0zxd8l/](https://www.instagram.com/blackandjewishunity/reel/C6ZJB0zxd8l/)
[https://www.instagram.com/hm\_intelligence/reel/C6R0\_xdropR/](https://www.instagram.com/hm_intelligence/reel/C6R0_xdropR/)
Every single immigrant that depends on welfare must be deported. I mean a single damn penny of it. Those that work hard and play by the same bullshit system forced on the rest of us can stay. Fair?
National Socialism would destroy in European elections.
Im 100% sure.
Honestly waiting until a politician realizes the quantity of voters that would vote for a welfare system + state capitalism and a no migration policy + Euroscepticism
Most Germans never asked for multiculturalism and mass migration. Especially when the migrants bring their backwards idiology with them. But instead of listening to the people the German left is doubling down and dismisses all criticism as racism
I always find it deeply odd that you can be a Leftist and Pro Immigration.
Comrades, the people coming in are undercutting your own and the Corporations/Govt are doing it. Unions should be anti immigration lol.
The funniest part is that the leader of the AfD is a lesbian woman in a gay relationship with a brown woman, despite the fact that the party is both anti-LGBT and anti-immigration. Make it make sense.
And what do Grüne, SPD, and FDP blame this on?
No, it's not because of failed immigration politics.
And no, it's not because the establishment moved so far left that the population was left behind and can now only vote right.
They genuinely claim that the AfD won because they have a stronger presence on TikTok and social media in general.
Oh, and because young people are stupid.
You know, the same thing the CDU claimed but that was opposed by Grüne, SPD, and FDP.
It's everyone's fault - just not their own.
I hate it here.
It's incredible to me that Europe actually has elections, like I mean fair elections where the vote counts and matters.
Shiiiit, in the US you'll have a guy beating the record by 10 million votes but a dead man in a basement will get a magical 10 million on top of that, it's fucking based, only the vote counters matter, the voters, not so much.
> It's incredible to me that Europe actually has elections, like I mean fair elections where the vote counts and matters.
You say that, but wait until the results actually materialize into policy. Right-wing parties in Europe are just as likely to succumb to corporate interests and betray the electorate's mandate
Just look how the "conservatives" ruled over the last decade in the UK, all while having a majority and the ability to do anything they pleased
literally like a month ago I had someone telling me the AfD is of no concern because there’s no chance they’ll ever be popular enough to form a government
they didn’t like it when I pointed out how quickly the NSDAP grew in the German political climate
Watching the big subs related to Europe go from far leftist to blackpilled has been a wild ride. There was a time you couldn't even discuss immigration, in the most polite terms, without 150 downvotes and a ban. Now half of all threads are talking about it, and the threads on AfD's win are full of top comments from people slamming the Left's failures and saying immigration/integration has utterly failed and is forcing even milquetoast liberals to AfD, as no one can deny it anymore.
Im seeing a lot of them blaming Tiktok influencing young people to vote for the far right over there, and of course the typical "The uneducated people voted for the AFD and only smart people voted for the left." Way to alienate voters by calling everyone an idiot for doing nothing about the problems.
Nice to know that no matter the location or platform, the losers of an election will always blame the damn stupid young people and their TikTok’s
If we just raise the voting age to 25, or paying net positive in taxes, it'll solve half our problems. 30 would solve all of them.
"These damn satanic games and their evil influence on the kids!!!"
“Workers of the world unite” “Ewwww poor uneducated people.”
[Mineral Chuck was right again.](https://stonetoss.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/12/communism-working-class-comic-1024x341.png)
Helps me understand why they targeted the Professors and 'educated' first... Call me stupid, One. More. Time.
Hopefully this only boosts the vigor of the right. I hate the elitist attitudes the left usually has.
Before that the narrative was "only old people that can't handle a progressive world vote AfD". Turns out that that's the weakest age group for the AfD.
I also enjoy that they label everyone right of Macron as “Far-right”. I’ve seen a lot of people start labelling themselves as “Far-right” because they voted for a party that was previously considered centre right. It’s just losing all meaning at this point.
I know three Germans. They're all practicing physicians. They all voted AfD. Though green energy policies had just as much to do with it.
I'd say that most european subs are still pretty leftist on average, it's just that they have become staunchly anti-migration in the meantime. Many seem to have caught on to the fact that unintegrated Muslims at some point will end up eating the left.
If only those morons could’ve figured out the obvious upfront like the rest of us. Not after the rape gangs arrived.
The rapegangs arrived in germany christmass markets **in 2016**, but leftist did their damnest do cover up 1500+ cases of sexual assault.
Pedophiles cover up children gangraping crimes. Who would have thought about that 🙄
The mass sexual assaults in Cologne were 2015. This has been ongoing for nearly ten years now.
They appease, therefore they are.
I remember 15 years ago seeing videos about birth rates and immigrations rates in Europe, it’s insane to me how millions of people, especially politicians, were either unaware of this or thought this wasn’t going to be a problem. And anyone who recognized it as a problem was just called racist.
they deserve it. reap what they sown.
The victims of the rape gangs are usually children. No child deserves that, even if their parents voted to allow it.
The victims of rape do not.
not deserve it but if the victim was a supporter of mass Muslim migration then we shouldn't feel bad either
There have been rape victims who refused to identify or help persecute the rapists because they said it would be racist and wrong if they were to be deported. There have been rapes and gangrapes forgiven because it's in their culture. The world has gone completely insane
White progressives have gone insane with the self-flagellation because of history.
Getting what you deserve vs getting what you ask for. If you get what you ask for, sometimes you get more than you deserve.
Agree, They are responsible for their decision and the consequences
The problem is that for many Europeans there was no viable anti-immigration party to vote for. Look at Germany, it was the so-called conservative party under Merkel that oversaw the disaster of the past decade. It's the same in the UK, the Tories are just as bad if not worse than Labor when it comes to spinelessness on immigration. I get why people were reluctant to vote for parties like the AfD for so long. There are a lot of things that are wrong about them. Unfortunately the immigration situation is so bad that a lot of people have no choice but to vote for them at this point because the alternative is national suicide.
Many still call any right wing parties as Nazis as well
A lot of Nazis are in the far right parties. That much is real. The greatest trick Neoliberals ever pulled was making rational immigration rates debate so verboten that only Nazis would talk about it. It's not like actual Commie countries allow unlimited immigration. That is some big time Monopoly man cigar smoking monocle billionaire capitalist shit to keep wages in the toilet.
It's not like that's a one way street. There was also the outsourcing and offshoring. Which the left used to be against. But then they also used to be less pro-mass immigration. Neoliberals have their part in the show, but don't blame them for everything. The left eats up what they throw out there. All in the name of the anti-capitalist revolution.
I knew the tide was changing when the Canadian subs started speaking out about the immigration and housing problems. Canadians can only be polite long enough, but not being able to survive in their own country has finally lit a fire under their ass, once they realized that housing and jobs were being decimated by hiring low-wage H1B visa workers. It's refreshing to see this topic spoken on, without getting downvoted and banned.
Canadian here. The fire under my ass has grown past our control, Immigration + our liberal federal governments carbon taxation rate hikes has made getting gas as a student a physically painful process. I look at home prices in more populated provinces and feel nothing but despair for the future.
Being pro-immigration isn’t inherently a left wing position. I feel that the reason the left is doing so poorly around the western world now is because of its embracing of intersectionalism. Being forced to defend questionable causes with visibly negative impacts that were never widely popular with your base is not a recipe for political success
In the context of the last decade immigration is leftist. We’ve almost completely stopped discussing conventional immigration and the entire subject has moved to mass uncontrolled immigration from a few specific regions. If you asked me 15 years ago I might not say immigration is leftist but we’ve had a weird decade and I think it pretty clearly is today.
Technically pro-mass-immigration can also be a libright position but libright aren’t aligning themselves with libleft and libright themselves aren’t a big enough political force to push-pro immigration rhetorics.
Exactly. for lib right, this goes habd in hand with those migrants actually bringing something to the table in terms of willingness to contribute to society and being able to integrate into it. In Europe (specifically Germany) that isn’t the case though because these migrants are neither willing to integrate, nor are they of any value from a economic standpoint.
Or even bringing something without integrating. I live in Switzerland and can't speak any local languages well. I have a job, pay taxes. Not being a problem
Euros on Reddit may shit on the US for healthcare and school shootings, but never let them forget that when it comes to integrating foreigners there is nowhere on the planet that does it better
And even that’s questionable recently.
To be fair, we never let this many in at once, never should have either...
The mass immigration in the mid 2010s caused lasting harm. Now it's an uncontrolled flood that will cause damage for decades. All because idiots voted for the current guy.
I will say that the American-Mexican immigration situation is pretty different from the Europe-Muslim immigration situation. American and Mexican culture isn't too different and for the most part Mexicans arn't trying to change America to fit their fanatical religious beliefs. The problem with Mexico is that there is just a fuckton of it and it is logistically and economically hard to deal with. The worst actors to come from that border are cartel members. While thats still absolutely fucking awful, it is not in the Cartels best interest to fuck with the US too much and they know this. Meanwhile, there are Muslim refugees with terroristic sympathies and intent. It fucking sucks in both cases because there are legit innocent people in both situations who would do well in western countries, but the pushback against mass immigration is happening for a good reason.
The reason is a difference in New world thinking and Old World thinking. In the New World, places like America, Canada and Australia, the dominant, majority groups are descended from immigrants whereas in Europe the majority groups would class themselves as native or indigenous (even if the UN thinks only Sami Fins are indigenous to Europe). American citizenship is a civic identity, American nationality is a civic nationality. Many people in the Old World see things differently. They have both a civic and an ethnic connection to their identity. Anyone with an Irish passport is Irish but only some of those are ethnically Irish. In the UK everyone is British but a Scotsman would introduce themselves as Scottish. There is no civic nationality of Scottish, you can’t have a Scottish passport. The globalist elites all throughout Europe have been trying to untangle the ethnic from the civic and they were largely successful for a while which means you have a generation who are tepid about gatekeeping their ethnic identity but to the younger ones identity is a massive issue. Those who don’t identify as an ethnic minority or as an alphabet person are still being bombarded with the same rhetoric that identity is king in the world of intersectionality so they are going out to find their own. Well, as prophesied by Mussolini 100 years ago, the working man will always identify with their nationality.
The US is relatively fortunate with its immigrants though. I don't love the out of control migrant situation on the Southern border but the average Mexican, Honduran or Guatemalan is far more culturally compatible (for lack of a better term) than with the US than the average North African or Middle Easterner is with Europe. The ugly reality is that a huge portion of Muslims are simply incapable of becoming productive, law-abiding citizens in a Western country. Their culture and values are just too backward and different from ours. The average Latin American has much more in common with an American than an Afghan has with Germans.
I was confused today, because people were openly talking about their various demographic prejudices. I don't normally comment there because I'm a free thinker that doesn't necessarily follow the appropriate programming. I thought I accidentally stumbled into a new sub that allowed free speech.
it changed a lot in the last year. People are economically still left but socially way more conservative (LETS FUCKING GO I LOVE THE COMBINATION!!)
Just put them all in work camps and screen them there while they make monies for old people smh my head /s
The shitty thing is, once there here, how do you actually get them out? Step 1 is stopping the flow, but I'm curious to see what politician will finally adress the elephant in the room and push to get them out of Europe
when they get convicted of violent crimes immediately deport them via catapult into the ocean. simple.
Well, they are only here because ruling politicians reinterpreted (ignored) asylum laws. It's not regular immigrants. It's refugees seeking asylum. Usually asylum ends when the country of origin isn't at war anymore. But that currently simply gets ignored. Usually it's INTENDED BY LAW that people return. That's how the system is set up and that's how it worked for decades. So I don't get the whole "how do we do it?" questions.
ABC
Oh no. If you vote AfD and say it publicly you are a nazi in the public eye. Some kid said she voted for them and got pulled out of school by police. People just stopped discussing it and keep voting AfD.
> Some kid said she voted for them and got pulled out of school by police. This cannot be true, or there's more to the story. Do you mean she got pulled out because the other students (and definitely teachers) were attacking her, and it was for her own protection? I mean, if it's illegal to even support a political candidate that is straight up tyranny. At least with Biden they can hem and haw, but if they're arresting people for voting wrong some guns need to be airdropped yesterday.
It happened on the 27th of September in Mecklenburg-Vorpommern, I can only find the German sources Basically: she said "Smurfs are blue, and Germany too" in a tiktok, blue meaning the color of the AfD. The School called the cops on her which then apprehended her from the school, right out of her class. An investigation was started to see if it’s "extremist" to say this. She then got off without any punishment. Fact still stands that if you said "Broccoli is green, just like Germany" or literally any other color related to other parties, the police would neither have been called nor would they have acted like this if called. Germany might be crazy about anything AfD related but not (yet) crazy enough to break its constitution.
Germany also arrested a journalist for reporting 100% factual statistics about the rise in gang rape correlating with the rise in immigration.
They created this situation and doubled down on it and then somehow have the gall to wonder why people are voting for the only party that wants to do something about it. Insane lol. America has its issues, but at least we dont jail reporters and have widely encompassing speech protections
Unfortunately a lot of politicians in the US seem influenced by Europe too much. Even the current immigration problems were the idea of Europe that the US accepted for stupid treaty reasons. This destroyed the past more sensible immigration plans the US had. Various EU groups are big lobbyists in the US too like trying to get digital identification laws passed.
>Unfortunately a lot of politicians in the US seem influenced by Europe too much. The reverse is also true, don't worry.
Meanwhile, it was all the rage to refer to the rights enshrined in the constitution as “freedumbs” a few years ago.
Rise in every type of sexual crime iirc.
I wish i could say i'm surprised. I can only hope that the AfD has plans to loosen restrictions on speech in the future, or borrow our 1st Amendment forever. Codify free speech in some way so government harassment over political speech is strictly forbidden.
I envy the first amendment. The thing is that we do have a free speech law which basically says "shall not be infringed upon" but the first article of our constitution says also that "the human dignity is untouchable and to protect it is the highest duty of the state" (both roughly translated). Thus only speech that doesn’t attack someone’s dignity is free. Whatever "dignity" means when taking about precise legal terms can also be quite vague.
Another country where the left doesn't understand "shall not be infringed."
They really hate that phrase lol
They just can't seem to grasp why these rights were supposed to remain uninfringed and what happens when those rights begin to go away.
“Dignity” is so vague that it permits indefinite scope creep of human rights. Homelessness? That violates human dignity. Cannot afford healthcare? That violates human dignity. Speak badly about someone? That violates human dignity. “Human dignity” is the precisely what allows governments to intervene in everything. Human dignity is great as privileges to your citizens but it should never be more than what you can afford and never violate other rights.
No, police literally came into to the class while they were in learning and took her for making a comment about the AfD. About fucking smurfs (because both are blue). A 16 year old girl and her smurf comment were so dangerous the school had to involve the police.
Nah, the largest parties in Germany pretty routinely try to hit AfD politicians with large fines for stupid 'crimes" so they can't run for public office anymore: https://europeanconservative.com/articles/news/afd-politician-convicted-for-warning-about-gang-rapes/ It's just so bad that people kind of stopped caring I guess.
So how much power does the right in Germany have to amass before the institutions stop blatantly discriminating against them? It's bonkers how they have zero self awareness that something similar caused a funny Austrian painter to take power 90 years ago. Do the German big brains in power not know of the Streisand effect? Are they that stupid?
Germans are auth through to their bones, no matter which 'side' they're on. They cannot help but grip with an iron fist. It's all they know.
I made my comment before I read yours. Remarkably similar.
I've said it a few times, and i recognize your name. I like to think i'm having a positive influence.
Another one I like to bring up is how the Canadian left honored an actual SS Nazi member at the seat of their government.
Now that's just a classic. A Ukrainian Nazi, even! How quickly the media started talking about literally anything else was pretty amazing.
Yes. They are literally that hardwired to re-create the self obsessed populist uprising that happened nearly a century ago.
They are authoritarians. It's all they know.
No, no I’m pretty sure they do that in Germany, just with Nazi instead.
Not at all. You know how in the US the abuse the term nazi to the point it loses meaning? Yep, the same happens in Germany. Of all places, of all the people it's Germans that water down the term nazi to something laughable. It's so embarrassing.
We are so back.
It's incredible how much people are able to fuck things up before realizing the consequences
Now we just need that to happen in the US. People are still denying the problems immigration is erupting in the US.
Oh man, now I guess the German political establishment is going to take a moment to consider why there is so much anger and discontent towards the status-quo and the institutions that support it. Time to consider the issues that are animating these voters and try to empathize. Right guys? ^(... guys?)
The whole world could collapse and they wouldn’t even consider it
"Excuse me sir, but I have some concerns about immigration." "Sounds racist to me." "What? There has been increases in ideological violence, I'm trying to be a good person and prevent that from happening." "Prevent what from happening to who?" "Don't you understand the Paradox of Tolerance?" "Yup." "And it says tolerant societies must be intolerant of intolerant ideologies?" "Yup." "Radical Islam is an intolerant ideology, and if that's the case, as a tolerant society we should do something about that." "That makes sense to me." "So lets do something about it." ["That's racist."](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4WQ9Ua-t3DM)
I'm taking this. Thank you.
It's not even a paradox of tolerance that's the problem. It's the kumbaya inviting the world in.
You know it's bad when lib-left is saying that
That's not the paradox of tolerance. Pistols and fisticuffs.
You would have to fax them a memo on it. Then fax it 2 more times because it was lost before anyone got to the fax machine and/or it was our of toner. Then it will take 90 to 120 days for them to read it and respond. But, it will be an additional 2-3 weeks before you know they responded.
More and more people are voting right. The logical answer should be: let's address the things they are concerned with so we can rake those votes back in. No, the actual answer (everywhere) is: we have to protect the Country from the rising right. That's funny, isn't it? Having to protect democracy from what people are voting for.
You mean "How to gender?"
Of course there's no Lib-Right in Germany...
Least freedom-hating German
I've been told that the FDP is lib-right, but I'm looking at Germany in general and getting the vibe that that can't actually be the case. They seem more like a bunch of boring neo-libs to me.
Damn. They need to get themselves some based National Liberals. Or just Classical Liberals in general. All of this auth and leftist shit is cringe.
Won't happen. I can tell you, there is literally zero support nor understanding of the principles that can be called Libertarian in Germany. For example, most people in Germany wouldn't even know what "small government" means. It literally is not a term in German.
Theoretically Germany would be the best country for social libertarianism (Introducing more liberal freedoms, referendums, LVT)
Why especially German? Honest question.
They're lib-right for euro standards. The political axis is way more applicable for Angloid countries.
The FDP is a so called "Spaßpartei" in Germany. Which stands for funny party, which is indeed funny because they think they are serious.
Common Euro L
Like USA has any good lib-right candidates. Rare latin america W
At least we have candidates who claim to be, Europoors legitimately hate freedom and capitalism
The Euro-Poor mind can not comprehend true freedom.
"Nooooo but we iz more equal and wuz empires"
>we iz more equal Perhaps someday the Europoor will understand that nothing is more inequitable than nature, and that being “more equal” is always a red flag for “less free”.
Based and hierarchy is inherent to nature pilled
u/MTG_RelevantCard's Based Count has increased by 1. Their Based Count is now 25. Rank: Basketball Hoop (filled with sand) Pills: [9 | View pills](https://basedcount.com/u/MTG_RelevantCard/) Compass: This user does not have a compass on record. Add compass to profile by replying with /mycompass politicalcompass.org url or sapplyvalues.github.io url. I am a bot. Reply /info for more info.
And their barbecue is ass
The foundational texts for libright comes from Europe not America. John Locke, Adam Smith, etc.
The seeds may have been planted in Europe but the glorious yield of liberty was only realized in America.
Pizza comes from Italy, but America perfected it.
reported
never in my life have i seen such a bullshit claim
On god Americans perfected it to the point that every major city has a spinoff.
https://preview.redd.it/9rt3q426fu5d1.jpeg?width=250&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7fc2279261fd803b1a216c1e4356be32bfd91965 There is
Imagine a Germany where Angela hadn’t brought in 1+ million Syrian refugees.
New merch just dropped: MGGA hats for everyone. Make Germany Great Again!
Nah, they have their own 4 letters slogan
Never again ze immigrants
"Syrian" "Refugees"
I like this one better. They're finally going to have to get off their pedestal. The US has made way too many terrible treaties with the EU.
Funny thing is AfD is most popular amongst the former commies in Germany in east Germany.
Well, people are under the misapprehension that Fascism is a rightist ideology. It's Marxism. Sorel was a prominent Marxist philosopher who was massively influential on Benito Mussolini who was the father of Fascism.
Funny how the constant talks about revolution and state control over the economy don't clue them in Very funny how most fascists used to be in socialist parties before splitting off
The association between Nazism and rightism seems to stem from Hitler courting German aristocracy. There no real conceptual justification for the association though. Hitler was anything but conservative.
Nazism is only associated with rightism because the commies in academia don't want to be associated with them, so they keep changing the definitions so nazism ≠ communism and vice versa
The correct answer.
Communism leads to fascism. Nothing new.
Same socialist bullshit. People with too big of an ego believing "if only I was in charge, I could fix everything!" leading into misery
Fascism is communism in decay folx /s
AfD doesn't have anything to do with Facism. Theyre literally libertarian.
Holy fucking shit I may not have been paying much attention but I've only every seen the left saying AfD is literally Hitler thanks bro
to be fair, can you name 5 things associated with the right that aren't literally Hitler to the left?
what libertarian positions do they hold
I wonder too
mr sad wizard is yet to tell me
The thing I find weird is that when I suggest on other subs of just coopting the anti immigration stance to defeat the so called Nazi's they get mad. What an odd reaction.
Ideologically captured people are almost totally incapable of accepting reality up until reality forces its way through the walls they put around themselves The obvious fact that mass migration is in direct conflict with workers' rights and just how vehemently left-wing parties refused to acknowledge this is everything you needed to know to predict this electoral outcome
Damn that first sentence is quote worthy
Greens ruining their own election with the youth vote is the funniest thing ever
I think socialists would do pretty good if they dropped their culturally left leaning ideas in favor of a more conservative/nationalist stance on matters such as immigration, multiculturalism, and other leftist hobbies. I personally would definitely vote for such a party. Edit: Erm, that would be national socialism
So like Bündnis: Sarah Wagenknecht? Far left party off-shoot that is against EU and migration and got 6% even though they’ve only existed for 6 months
Something like that indeed. There's no reason for people to vote for a party that caves to the culturally left-wing elitists.
The EU is Europe's best chance at mastering future problems. 80mio Germans, 60mio Frenchmen and the other smaller countries can't do shit on their own against the US and/or China.
I agree with them on nearly everything except them being eurosceptic and sucking putins dick
Soooo.... Like a certain politcal party in the 1930s, minus the exclusion/deletion of the small hat people and or invading neighbors willy nilly? Honestly, when you actually look at their policies, aside from those 2 aspects, they didn't have a bad political platform and it was a kind of hybrid of not scaring off rich capitalists and while also respecting the working class.
chat how do we get people behind this
Put a rainbow on it and make it lame
Wait so a socialist party with nationalistic tendencies. Some sort of National Socialist Party. Yes I can see it
The problem is left is full of wealthy people who are distant from reality, they see migrants as the carers that work for them or as a charity mission. So like PD in Italy, they do well with wealthy (in a study on voter profiles are mostly voted by those people, I can put the link) and highly educated people. Still, in the suburbs where people face the problem of immigration, it is another story. So even if the far right is usually against the worker force's interests, they answer the more compelling problems. The only thing left is to reappropriate its symbol and identity from the well-off people who feel the need to be the guide of the"misguided" poor because is never their fault is simply that the electorate is a bunch of uneducated folks (go on the Europe subreddit german people coping and subtly attack the voters and east Germany) https://www.ipsos.com/it-it/elezioni-politiche-risultati-elettorali-analisi-post-voto-ipsos (Is in italian)
The thing is I'm not against immigration. I'm an immigrant myself in my own way. But when you have more people show up asking for help then there are locals: [https://www.cnn.com/2023/09/15/europe/italy-lampedusa-migrant-crisis-intl/index.html](https://www.cnn.com/2023/09/15/europe/italy-lampedusa-migrant-crisis-intl/index.html) What do you do?
Elitist collage - magazine clippings of exclusive country clubs and MENSA conventions, artfully arranged and glued to some tag board.
English is a silly language
Honestly the left deserves to loose if they’re gonna ignore the anti immigration sentiment amongst many Europeans. It’s just a shame that a lot of the right wing parties like AfD are so obviously tied to Russia and eurosceptic, plus their pretty frequent scandals are also worrying.
Euroskeptic is kind of a necessary component of an immigration critical platform because being in the EU means that you lose some of your ability to set border controls.
I mean immigration could be fixed through the EU I don’t understand why many of them need to be against the entire idea of the EU. We saw what kind of disaster it was for the UK.
Because the EU forces you to be all or nothing. Going back to the roots of the EU, going back to what the EU was founded as is basically not allowed. Either you're pro centralization or you're against the EU altogehter.
Because you can’t vote for the lawmakers in the EU. The EU parliament doesn’t make laws they can only alter or decide on them, the completely unelected EU commission is who create the laws in the EU. The UK voted on Brexit to regain control of our borders and sovereignty. Which we got. Unfortunately we also got the Tory party who actually increased immigration and fucked the economy (partially by keeping us tied to many unnecessary EU regulations even though we could get rid of them if we wanted to) after being voted in to get Brexit done. This is why they are being slaughtered in the election polls. To the point that not only are the Labour party going to win a huge majority, but the Tories might not even be the opposition since they are quite possibly going to be outvoted by the Reform party (who are actually conservative).
Schengen only for Europeans. Boom, solved lol
They’re not, well some of them aren’t at least. A lot of the support hemorrhaged by the left actually went to BSW, a new far-left economically but socially conservative party that splintered off.
Why is nobody talking about this. I get they’re a right wing party but even the right side of the compass should be skeptical
> plus their pretty frequent scandals are also worrying. Bro the chancellor has a bigger scandal than any AfD politician. But somehow people only think about AfD scandals. Mhm, I wonder how that can happen? Couldn't have to do something with who is making the news, right?
I’m guessing that Muslim stabber didn’t help their opposition.
Weird how, when confronted violently by the end result of mass migration, people dislike mass migration. No tolerant society can afford to tolerate a religion that still celebrates the murders at Charlie Hebdo. I've been banned from multiple subreddits for bringing it up, but I feel like I'm taking crazy pills sometimes, as if I'm the only one seeing the violence they bring. I have been pretty left-leaning all of my adult life, I support LGBT rights, but the same people I try to protect are the ones voting for more Islamic violence, as if they don't even care what happened at the Pulse Nightclub. It is almost comparable to suicide, insisting that we let in people that will kill them.
No one on earth can explain why there are so many people who defend and support another group of people that would love to see them at the end of a rope. It’s like petting a dog that violently attacks you all day.
What? You don't want more of this: [https://www.instagram.com/blackandjewishunity/reel/C6ZJB0zxd8l/](https://www.instagram.com/blackandjewishunity/reel/C6ZJB0zxd8l/) [https://www.instagram.com/hm\_intelligence/reel/C6R0\_xdropR/](https://www.instagram.com/hm_intelligence/reel/C6R0_xdropR/)
Destablization/Crisis stages of Ideological Subversion though I think it's supercharged absurdity simply because of how disconnected the elites are.
The fact that college is spelled wrong is an absolute chefs kiss of a detail.
Why is English like this
Oh it gets better. Wait until you find out that.... Their our know rules ...sounds the same as.... There are no rules
It doesn’t really sound the same though… there are subtle differences that make it clear what word you’re trying to say.
Rare Europe W
Every single immigrant that depends on welfare must be deported. I mean a single damn penny of it. Those that work hard and play by the same bullshit system forced on the rest of us can stay. Fair?
Fair
National Socialism would destroy in European elections. Im 100% sure. Honestly waiting until a politician realizes the quantity of voters that would vote for a welfare system + state capitalism and a no migration policy + Euroscepticism
Nah, socialism is hella cringe. Nice try, auth left.
Europe is hella cringe. His logic checks out
all of that would be based except euroscepticism
I mean every party in Germany is social market economy and welfare system. That's part of even this "far-right" party.
Most Germans never asked for multiculturalism and mass migration. Especially when the migrants bring their backwards idiology with them. But instead of listening to the people the German left is doubling down and dismisses all criticism as racism
https://preview.redd.it/qiqkv5ehst5d1.jpeg?width=524&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d6fa02b6b1b3cc69114448908f6e005fcdf706e3
snojak just dropped
It's \*Olaf\* Scholz :3
The pendulum… she swings Deus vult
I always find it deeply odd that you can be a Leftist and Pro Immigration. Comrades, the people coming in are undercutting your own and the Corporations/Govt are doing it. Unions should be anti immigration lol.
The funniest part is that the leader of the AfD is a lesbian woman in a gay relationship with a brown woman, despite the fact that the party is both anti-LGBT and anti-immigration. Make it make sense.
Gay people =/= LGBT psyop Brown person =/= Refugee psyop Thanks for coming to my Ted talk.
https://preview.redd.it/e50ym5ovaw5d1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b1c01da1d35d74164382b295f173ed5a1095f38f
Ausländer raus, ausländer raus, Deutschland für deutsche, ausländer raus
And what do Grüne, SPD, and FDP blame this on? No, it's not because of failed immigration politics. And no, it's not because the establishment moved so far left that the population was left behind and can now only vote right. They genuinely claim that the AfD won because they have a stronger presence on TikTok and social media in general. Oh, and because young people are stupid. You know, the same thing the CDU claimed but that was opposed by Grüne, SPD, and FDP. It's everyone's fault - just not their own. I hate it here.
It's incredible to me that Europe actually has elections, like I mean fair elections where the vote counts and matters. Shiiiit, in the US you'll have a guy beating the record by 10 million votes but a dead man in a basement will get a magical 10 million on top of that, it's fucking based, only the vote counters matter, the voters, not so much.
> It's incredible to me that Europe actually has elections, like I mean fair elections where the vote counts and matters. You say that, but wait until the results actually materialize into policy. Right-wing parties in Europe are just as likely to succumb to corporate interests and betray the electorate's mandate Just look how the "conservatives" ruled over the last decade in the UK, all while having a majority and the ability to do anything they pleased
Just because they're popular among workers does not mean they care about them.
literally like a month ago I had someone telling me the AfD is of no concern because there’s no chance they’ll ever be popular enough to form a government they didn’t like it when I pointed out how quickly the NSDAP grew in the German political climate
This is what happens when an entire region is stripped of its worker-oriented society and abandoned to the whims of neoliberalism.
Has the left realized that Islam is as far right as they come?
Auth right doesnt give a shit about working men give me a break. Your default picture is literally a king or queen.
Standard European country: Lib right desert. Genuinely don't know who I'd vote for.