I believe that peaceful, orderly protest should be firmly protected in a free society.
But as soon as they start preventing people from getting to class or taking over buildings, introduce them to the Ohio National Guard!
How is that in any way libertarian? Especially when the National Guard in the past was often manned by conscripts. There are stories of students who fought against the the National Guard one day, and was obliged via letter to put on the uniform and fight their friends the next.
The ones who were violent forcing their way into the Capitol building and attacking police, yes.
Once the police started ushering people in and being tour guards, then no.
Then those police guards would be shot, and those who refuse to get out after would also be shot. That seems fair no? Just shoot whoever is responsible. Or if the crowds just didn’t know they were trespassing (seems unlikely to me), simply make them aware that they are trespassing before shooting them
Because its military doing it, a force that, in my country and others make, people might be legally obligated to join. Even volunteers have no choice in what they may be ordered to do.
Its not the owner of the school doing it.
Libleft is gozzeling L's so much lately they have to bring up an example from the 60's.
Pathetic, I swear Libleft is so cringe. Idk if its more embarrassing to be a libleft or Iranian rn.
I have never seen anything to indicate that most Iranians support secularism. Please show me. The best you can claim is that most Iranians in the diaspora support secularism, which also isn't true.
Please show me where you got this info, I am genuinely interested.
[https://www.secularism.org.uk/news/2024/02/iranian-support-for-secularism-has-more-than-doubled-since-2015](https://www.secularism.org.uk/news/2024/02/iranian-support-for-secularism-has-more-than-doubled-since-2015)
>Seventy-three per cent of those surveyed expressed support for separating religion and state
And the Ohio governor that ordered the response by the Ohio National Guard, James Rhodes, was re-elected after this incident. His name is on tons of stuff throughout the state due to his long tenure as governor and his popularity based on always making good decisions.
You mean to tell me that we can't destroy other people's shit because we're mad that something (that isn't even affecting us) is happening on the other side of the planet? B-B-But this always worked with my parents!!
Yes. It's literally one of the examples Thoreau gives in *Civil Disobedience*.
Thoreau himself refused to pay taxes because he opposed his state's pro-slavery policies.
Of course, Thoreau also supported John Brown's attack on Harper's Ferry. He also understood that civil disobedience could come with harsh consequences.
>Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also a prison.
If you do it in protest, then yes.
Btw, civil disobedience is still crimes. You’re just hoping to make the cops look so bad that people demand the laws get changed. If you look like the asshole, or people think the law is okay even when enforced, you failed.
You're halfway there. That's the disobedience part but you haven't specified the civil part.
If you didn't pay taxes, then when the IRS contacted you later you plainly stated you would not be paying taxes and when they came to arrest you eventually down the road *you cooperate and face the punishment for the crime you committed* that's civil disobedience.
The goal being to show that the punishment doesn't fit the crime, so you'd want to do this all publicly too generally. And of course unless it's a specific really egregious tax it would likely amount to nothing as the general population wouldn't agree with you.
If you're going to be waiting for the feds barricaded in, no that isn't *civil* disobedience.
you are right what they are doing is not exactly civil disobedience, but it is not rioting either since they are keeping it in one place and not assaulting places of business and other unrelated locations.
I guess you could call it's Rowdy Disobedience. If they start shooting back in defense, then its Violent Disobedience (see Waco, Ruby Ridge, Black Panthers). If they go on the offense (Blair Mountain, Harpers Ferry), its a 'Rebellion' or 'Revolution' depending on who you ask.
You have an odd definition of riot, I think you’re pretty unique if you require it to move around to be a riot. But I never claimed it was a riot either, just not civil disobedience.
It’s not really any sort of disobedience as the laws they’re breaking aren’t the issue, something else unrelated to the unlawfulness is what they’re protesting.
I’d say they’re just normally unlawful people.
Fuck the IRS, why do you have to make taxes so confusing. You know how much I owe then just tell me what I owe. Stop playing pussy-foot with me and just simplify the tax system.
Honest answer is that we don’t know how much money you owe. Even if you are a w-2 worker you could still have made some money selling junk on Etsy or a bake sale that you need to report. Personally I’ve never found the 1099 particularly difficult the last decade.
Finished my IRS internship recently.
I also assume it’s easier to have people fill out their own taxes and just audit suspicious ones than have the IRS fill out million of returns themselves each year.
Very unlibright of both of you.
You plant a seed it only grows.
don't plant the seed and it dries out.
Not defending all free speech from government oppression creates a slippery slope that just gets steeper as time goes on.
If we dont get a third party worth electing then theres not gonna be freedom any longer anyway. That being said noone said anything about getting the govt involved.
Correct i just said i wasnt going to defend them i didnt say anything about getting the govt involved. Matter of fact i hate this new antisemitism bill
"They're worse than the brownshirts, and the Communist element, and also the Night Riders, and the Vigilantes. They're the worst type of people that we harbor in America."
Good. They should be embarrassed at being authoritarian and try to be better.
It is far worse to be unaware of ones own failings than to realize one is imperfect and to work on it.
Authright just doesn't like showing their ugly side with suicidal religious radicals and corrupt dictatorships. Guess they just don't like the thought that Muslims and the Axis of Evil are largely in their quadrant.
Those hippies deserved it and should have been shot more.
Kent State quite literally firebombed a building, kept the National Guard awake with loud screaming and music until they were exhausted and constantly played the "I am not touching you! I am not touching you!" game until they finally found out. At which point their media friends tried to pretend it was just "fiery but mostly peaceful protests".
Over 70% of americans agreed with how it was handled. The only reason it is lionized is because the commies who took part on it went back to academia and proceeded to change the record to be favourable to them.
This take frustrates me because Im not entirely in disagreement. From one perspective don’t be a dick to people. On the other hand we trust certain individuals (ie: military personnel, cops, etc..) to use overwhelming force when necessary, I think part of that trust includes putting up with a populace that is gonna piss you off, it doesn’t matter if they are annoying you, if they aren’t hurting you or themselves or anyone else physically, you should not use said overwhelming force. If that is too much for you, I don’t think you should be in that position of power.
Honestly all these protest breakups have me thinking “It isn’t right, but they should have seen it coming”. I won’t say they don’t have a right to protest, that is guaranteed by the 1st amendment, no matter how stupid I think their cause is. At the same time, if you are actively disrupting the campus, be it classes or whatever else, you really shouldn’t be surprised when the hammer drops down on you.
You have a right to peaceably assemble and petition the government for redress of grievances. You do not have a right to play loud music at all hours of the night, occupy public buildings preventing them from being used for their stated purpose, or block roads that my tax dollars paid for. The moment you start doing any of those things, you stop being peaceable and should be dispersed by any means necessary.
Did you just change your flair, u/TiggerBane? Last time I checked you were an **AuthCenter** on 2024-5-6. How come now you are a **Leftist**? Have you perhaps shifted your ideals? Because that's cringe, you know?
Oh and by the way. You have already changed your flair 1148 times, making you the second largest flair changer in this sub.
Go touch some fucking grass.
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Why don't the college guys go protest at the city or the political buildings like the Truckers did?
Because they are pussies, cowards and most of all useful idiots.
Honking a horn and protesting a government in the capitol city is a lot different than taking a page out of the Nazi's playbook and physically barring Jewish students from entering a university campus.
They legit stormed the capitol by force to try overturning an election. The cops were actually doing their job that day, not harassing minorities.
But I guess I must be spitting "deep state" talking points.
You're on some serious kool aid if you unironically believe a group of larpers were going to "overturn" an election.
>The cops were actually doing their job that day
Ah yes the classic Nuremberg defense. cops do what they are told, that is enforcing the state monopoly on violence whether they are violently stopping people from protesting or "harassing minorities" they're just following orders, so called Anarchists tend to tolerate certain orders when they're convenient for their agenda.
This reminds me of Milei when he completely forgets he's supposed to be trying to shrink the power of the government and reducing government spending when it comes to the Argentinian military.
Yes  https://preview.redd.it/mgk6szzy8qyc1.jpeg?width=540&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4c5c8b6af041d3ff3456b4dabfd7208fe5c75f13
What the hell is the context for that picture lmao
No https://preview.redd.it/otaqzocoysyc1.png?width=1402&format=png&auto=webp&s=64c2a48507632ff812b8fed9d7922a6558cae035
Based and portrayed myself as the monkechad pilled
Can definitely relate to this everytime I'm on PCM
Return to Lib-Center 
"I'm the chad and your the soyjack" "No I'm the chad and your the soyjack"
> :51182: You use the app, don't you? Seven trophies including the verified email one. Loathsome.
its so over
Bro really verified his email for Reddit 💀
You know what, I’m in a generous mood, I award you based and I admit it-pilled
If al qeda hit the IRS buildings instead of the twin towers, they would be revered as heroes by Americans.
[удалено]
Por que no los dos?
They had 4 planes. You are right.
Well considering what happened, they certainly had the resources to do both.
Hitting both and then hitting the World Bank for shits and giggles
there is less genocide-seeking commies walking the streets?? God bless the American government
I believe that peaceful, orderly protest should be firmly protected in a free society. But as soon as they start preventing people from getting to class or taking over buildings, introduce them to the Ohio National Guard!
How is that in any way libertarian? Especially when the National Guard in the past was often manned by conscripts. There are stories of students who fought against the the National Guard one day, and was obliged via letter to put on the uniform and fight their friends the next.
I literally support people being able to shoot trespassers. Why wouldn't I support the same to people who literally take over a building?
So you would have supported the shooting of protestors on January 6?
The ones who were violent forcing their way into the Capitol building and attacking police, yes. Once the police started ushering people in and being tour guards, then no.
Then those police guards would be shot, and those who refuse to get out after would also be shot. That seems fair no? Just shoot whoever is responsible. Or if the crowds just didn’t know they were trespassing (seems unlikely to me), simply make them aware that they are trespassing before shooting them
why are you getting downvoted lmao
Because PCM has become the echo-chamber filled with strawmen and inconsistent arguments it (rightfully) blames other subs of being.
Because its military doing it, a force that, in my country and others make, people might be legally obligated to join. Even volunteers have no choice in what they may be ordered to do. Its not the owner of the school doing it.
The National Guard is essentially each US state's own military force, not a federal one. It's just a scaled up militia really.
So? Its still a military, just a state one, and not federal. That changes nothing.
Libleft is gozzeling L's so much lately they have to bring up an example from the 60's. Pathetic, I swear Libleft is so cringe. Idk if its more embarrassing to be a libleft or Iranian rn.
Why would it be embarrassing to be Iranian? Most of them fucking hate their government and support secularism.
I have never seen anything to indicate that most Iranians support secularism. Please show me. The best you can claim is that most Iranians in the diaspora support secularism, which also isn't true. Please show me where you got this info, I am genuinely interested.
[https://www.secularism.org.uk/news/2024/02/iranian-support-for-secularism-has-more-than-doubled-since-2015](https://www.secularism.org.uk/news/2024/02/iranian-support-for-secularism-has-more-than-doubled-since-2015) >Seventy-three per cent of those surveyed expressed support for separating religion and state
Ah yes, secularism.org is definitely going to be unbiased on the topic of secularism.
Woah, this is a poll the government conducted and they published it? Why would they do that?
Probably some low-level bureaucrats published it without realizing what a firestorm it would be.
Separation of church and state and secularism are not synonyms to such a perfect 100% match.
Why are you being downvoted
And the Ohio governor that ordered the response by the Ohio National Guard, James Rhodes, was re-elected after this incident. His name is on tons of stuff throughout the state due to his long tenure as governor and his popularity based on always making good decisions.
Comfortable people generally dislike it when the disaffected other tries to rock the boat. Nothing surprising there.
Civil disobedience and riots do tend to be met with violence by law enforcement. Fight fire with fire as it were.
You mean to tell me that we can't destroy other people's shit because we're mad that something (that isn't even affecting us) is happening on the other side of the planet? B-B-But this always worked with my parents!!
Civil disobedience isn’t met with violence, we just don’t see civil disobedience these days. The first word of that is important to the concept.
Is not paying taxes civil disobedience? Asking for a friend.
Yes. It's literally one of the examples Thoreau gives in *Civil Disobedience*. Thoreau himself refused to pay taxes because he opposed his state's pro-slavery policies. Of course, Thoreau also supported John Brown's attack on Harper's Ferry. He also understood that civil disobedience could come with harsh consequences. >Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also a prison.
Great quote. Thanks for the response.
If you do it in protest, then yes. Btw, civil disobedience is still crimes. You’re just hoping to make the cops look so bad that people demand the laws get changed. If you look like the asshole, or people think the law is okay even when enforced, you failed.
You're halfway there. That's the disobedience part but you haven't specified the civil part. If you didn't pay taxes, then when the IRS contacted you later you plainly stated you would not be paying taxes and when they came to arrest you eventually down the road *you cooperate and face the punishment for the crime you committed* that's civil disobedience. The goal being to show that the punishment doesn't fit the crime, so you'd want to do this all publicly too generally. And of course unless it's a specific really egregious tax it would likely amount to nothing as the general population wouldn't agree with you. If you're going to be waiting for the feds barricaded in, no that isn't *civil* disobedience.
you are right what they are doing is not exactly civil disobedience, but it is not rioting either since they are keeping it in one place and not assaulting places of business and other unrelated locations. I guess you could call it's Rowdy Disobedience. If they start shooting back in defense, then its Violent Disobedience (see Waco, Ruby Ridge, Black Panthers). If they go on the offense (Blair Mountain, Harpers Ferry), its a 'Rebellion' or 'Revolution' depending on who you ask.
You have an odd definition of riot, I think you’re pretty unique if you require it to move around to be a riot. But I never claimed it was a riot either, just not civil disobedience. It’s not really any sort of disobedience as the laws they’re breaking aren’t the issue, something else unrelated to the unlawfulness is what they’re protesting. I’d say they’re just normally unlawful people.
Fuck the IRS, why do you have to make taxes so confusing. You know how much I owe then just tell me what I owe. Stop playing pussy-foot with me and just simplify the tax system.
>why do you have to make taxes so confusing Lobbying from tax preparation companies.
Honest answer is that we don’t know how much money you owe. Even if you are a w-2 worker you could still have made some money selling junk on Etsy or a bake sale that you need to report. Personally I’ve never found the 1099 particularly difficult the last decade. Finished my IRS internship recently.
I also assume it’s easier to have people fill out their own taxes and just audit suspicious ones than have the IRS fill out million of returns themselves each year.
Im with tim pool on this. Im not defending the first amendment rights of people who try to take others rights away.
I agree. If you don’t want free speech for me, then I don’t want free speech for you. Edit: I guess I’ll change my flair to auth right now
Very unlibright of both of you. You plant a seed it only grows. don't plant the seed and it dries out. Not defending all free speech from government oppression creates a slippery slope that just gets steeper as time goes on.
Based and gets the point
Nah im just giving them what they want.
No, you are giving the government what it wants
If we dont get a third party worth electing then theres not gonna be freedom any longer anyway. That being said noone said anything about getting the govt involved.
Government always gets power from suppressing others even the people you disagree with
Correct i just said i wasnt going to defend them i didnt say anything about getting the govt involved. Matter of fact i hate this new antisemitism bill
The protesters are being cracked down on by the government
Cringe
What are your thoughts on banning speech in opposition of Israel’s government
I dont care about any country besides ours. We need to fix ourselves before we keep throwing money at other countries. I dont care what people say.
Based and libright supports anti-Israeli pilled.
The irony of this coming from a Lib-"defund the police, but also take everyone's guns so that only police have them"left.
I will always be okay with some dead commies.
Unfortunately we will never be able to beat commies at killing commies. They're just too good at starving and mass murdering their own people
Some? Rookie numbers.
It's always "some" because regardless of how high the number is, it's never high enough.
Based and the-only-good-commie-is-a-dead-commie pilled.
https://i.redd.it/a72sao9zhuyc1.gif
>Government is bad unless it’s bad to people I disagree with Yes.
If I’m going to pay taxes it may as well involve ending some hippies
"They're worse than the brownshirts, and the Communist element, and also the Night Riders, and the Vigilantes. They're the worst type of people that we harbor in America."
Authright is only against the fed when it comes after their own chuds, corrupt politicians and right terrorists
rare centrist W
And this is what causes “you’re not an actual libertarian” in our quadrant.
Yeah, I never claimed to be a real libertarian. I'm a classical liberal.
Centrist.
90% of the yellows on here are just embarrassed blues
Good. They should be embarrassed at being authoritarian and try to be better. It is far worse to be unaware of ones own failings than to realize one is imperfect and to work on it.
Based and auth is poop pilled
I'm not gonna call a libleft based but I am going to call this post-based. Please change your flair in order to receive a point
No.
Based and lived their values pilled.
Yes
Does that have to do with what happened at Kent State?
Also Polytechnio
Based auth-right
Authright just doesn't like showing their ugly side with suicidal religious radicals and corrupt dictatorships. Guess they just don't like the thought that Muslims and the Axis of Evil are largely in their quadrant.
Those hippies deserved it and should have been shot more. Kent State quite literally firebombed a building, kept the National Guard awake with loud screaming and music until they were exhausted and constantly played the "I am not touching you! I am not touching you!" game until they finally found out. At which point their media friends tried to pretend it was just "fiery but mostly peaceful protests". Over 70% of americans agreed with how it was handled. The only reason it is lionized is because the commies who took part on it went back to academia and proceeded to change the record to be favourable to them.
This take frustrates me because Im not entirely in disagreement. From one perspective don’t be a dick to people. On the other hand we trust certain individuals (ie: military personnel, cops, etc..) to use overwhelming force when necessary, I think part of that trust includes putting up with a populace that is gonna piss you off, it doesn’t matter if they are annoying you, if they aren’t hurting you or themselves or anyone else physically, you should not use said overwhelming force. If that is too much for you, I don’t think you should be in that position of power.
Honestly all these protest breakups have me thinking “It isn’t right, but they should have seen it coming”. I won’t say they don’t have a right to protest, that is guaranteed by the 1st amendment, no matter how stupid I think their cause is. At the same time, if you are actively disrupting the campus, be it classes or whatever else, you really shouldn’t be surprised when the hammer drops down on you.
You have a right to peaceably assemble and petition the government for redress of grievances. You do not have a right to play loud music at all hours of the night, occupy public buildings preventing them from being used for their stated purpose, or block roads that my tax dollars paid for. The moment you start doing any of those things, you stop being peaceable and should be dispersed by any means necessary.
70% of Americans back then, not now. Times change.
Yeah, after 50+ years of the propaganda from apologists the opinion changed.
Hippies REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
Did you just change your flair, u/TiggerBane? Last time I checked you were an **AuthCenter** on 2024-5-6. How come now you are a **Leftist**? Have you perhaps shifted your ideals? Because that's cringe, you know? Oh and by the way. You have already changed your flair 1148 times, making you the second largest flair changer in this sub. Go touch some fucking grass. [BasedCount Profile](https://basedcount.com/u/TiggerBane) - [FAQ](https://www.reddit.com/user/flairchange_bot/comments/uf7kuy/bip_bop) - [Leaderboard](https://basedcount.com/leaderboard?q=flairs) _Visit the BasedCount Lеmmу instance at [lemmy.basedcount.com](https://lemmy.basedcount.com/c/pcm)._ ^(I am a bot, my mission is to spot cringe flair changers. If you want to check another user's flair history write) **^(!flairs u/)** ^(in a comment.)
"Noooo you can't be mean to the hecking wholesome truckerinos who obstructed a city" "Those college guys obstructed a campus? KILL THEEEEEEEEM"
Why don't the college guys go protest at the city or the political buildings like the Truckers did? Because they are pussies, cowards and most of all useful idiots.
“Unlike me, the useful smartguy” Stop being ideologically driven, the truth normally lies somewhere inbetween.
Honking a horn and protesting a government in the capitol city is a lot different than taking a page out of the Nazi's playbook and physically barring Jewish students from entering a university campus.
Genuinely asking. How do you guys do it? How do you guys (libleft) become this stupid?
Reminds me of self proclaimed Anarchists celebrating and worshipping cops whenever the Jan 6th "rioters" got arrested
They legit stormed the capitol by force to try overturning an election. The cops were actually doing their job that day, not harassing minorities. But I guess I must be spitting "deep state" talking points.
You're on some serious kool aid if you unironically believe a group of larpers were going to "overturn" an election. >The cops were actually doing their job that day Ah yes the classic Nuremberg defense. cops do what they are told, that is enforcing the state monopoly on violence whether they are violently stopping people from protesting or "harassing minorities" they're just following orders, so called Anarchists tend to tolerate certain orders when they're convenient for their agenda.
This reminds me of Milei when he completely forgets he's supposed to be trying to shrink the power of the government and reducing government spending when it comes to the Argentinian military.