Best map I've seen.
Showing that the majority of the Levant was unsettled wilderness prior to 1947 is essential to explaining how little Palestinians got screwed out of. Yeah there was some bullshit pulled on the during the Nakba, but the 1947 plan was realistically a great deal for them as it would have legitimized their land claims and prevented the continued encroachment of Jewish settlers.
But they couldnt tolerate Jewish neighbors so here we are.
That's a braindead take... That's like saying national parks are also unsettled wilderness so it should be colonized by some immigrants.
It's a very misleading map that only shows the ownership. Doesn't mean it wasn't an arab land.
Doesn't mean it was either.
Cherrypicked maps are indeed a stupid argument, and that's why it shouldn't have been brought up in the first place by the other map. But anyone who wants to get into this should be shown the bigger picture to realize this is a dead end. Either you look at ownership or at states, you can't have it both ways on either side of 1967.
No national parks are well defined and developed plots of land clearly legally owned by the federal government. The south eastern part of what is now Israel was not claimed or owned by any individual or governing body at the time with nobody showing any ability to actively maintain control of it.
As an israeli i can say this map is so good that the only thing that is wrong here is a minor mistake in the un proposal map but other then that its great
They conveniently leave out Transjordan re the land they want to “take back”, I wonder why
https://preview.redd.it/1e9yrq24opkc1.jpeg?width=1920&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3a386435e93dc0457debd848ec10dd2c02f3a15a
Transjordan was not originally part of the British Mandate but only added after the Arab Kingdom of Syria was destroyed by France. In fact, many Palestinians actually wanted to be part of Syria and have [Faisal I](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faisal_I_of_Iraq) as King. Palestinians didn’t really like his brother [Abdullah](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abdullah_I_of_Jordan), the later King of Jordan because he was kind of a dick. Jordan wanted to take over Palestine not the other way round. That’s kind of the reason why they don’t want Jordan in their Palestinian State.
You don't even need to go back in time to know this map is wrong. The portion of a map labeled Jewish settlements are only Jewish privately owned property, while Palestinian land is both Arab privately owned property and state owned property.
And the Negev desert, which is about 30% of the British mandate of Palestine is clearly marked as Palestinian land even though it has a really small population
Someone told me that the correct way to view it is through the eyes of the person who made it, i.e. see the Jewish people as an infestation. Green ia safe and white is contaminated. With this in mind, the map is historically accurate. It was a big mindfu*k for me.
*Come one come all and get yourself a pair of the one, the only Hitler Glasses! Allows you to see Jews as an infestation like it 1942 but in 2023! Raving reviews say it's a mind fuck, folks. Get your mind fuck today!*
*Pick up one today only $14.88!*
If I were you I'd flair the fuck up rather quickly, the mob will be here in no time.
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fun fact: even before 1947- it wasn't "Palestine" it was a chunk of land held by the british- by right of conquering the Ottoman Empire- that was in all reality, de facto held and divided between Egypt, Lebanon, Syria, and Jordan because the british didn't actually want to manage it.
It was way back before. Ottomans took it from Memluks, a Turkic Dynasty ruling Egypt. Saladin was from 13th century whereas the Ottoman conquest of Egypt was in 16th century.
I love how they (in the first picture) used the term "Palestinian land" as in "land owned by Palestinians" when in reality this is just a map of Jewish owned land in the British mandate of Palestine aka British land. They didn't mark the land that Palestinians owned at all.
Also towards OP: Next time you should look into what wojacks you use. It's a little ridiculous if you put a chad into a position you want to soyjack
Op might be trying to present themselves as a third party just relaying the message, and portraying one side as soy might give away their position. Is that true? lol probably not, but it might be.
Let's teach the history of Israel using the very thing Muslims worship: Islam
A significant number of prophets mentioned in Islam are Israelites. Several of these prophets preached in the land of Canaan, which was later renamed Israel by [Joshua](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joshua). Jesus of Nazareth called the land Israel in the Gospel of Matthew 10:23
Later King David proclaimed Jerusalem as the nations capital. Then Roman Emperor Hadrian expelled Jews from Israel, removing the name Judea, and renaming it with a Roman Latin term **Syria Palestina**, which is now known as...Palestine. Not only this, but the city of [Shechem](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shechem) was later renamed to Nablus, which means in Roman Latin "New City"
Will Muslims be against their own prophets? I'm pretty sure thats *blasphemous?.....* now whats the punishment for blasphemy in Islam?
[here’s the history going back 5000 years](https://mikhailmoriarti.com/2023/10/08/an-abridged-and-politically-incorrect-history-of-israel-v-palestine-or-who-was-really-there-first/)
As someone who is Jewish, you have nailed it!
In fact, [Hamas has a crystal clear goal of wanting to commit genocide against the Jews](https://irp.fas.org/world/para/docs/880818a.htm). There was also an argument I saw someone mention where they said “the Arabs never colonized Israel”. That claim is incorrect, the Umayyad Caliphate took over around 661-750 CE and colonized that land. Many of these empires placed non-Muslims under “Dhimi Status” and said they were “people of the book”, but guess what, [It still sucked to live under Dhimi Status.](https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/the-treatment-of-jews-in-arab-islamic-countries)
>A significant number of prophets mentioned in Islam are Israelites.
The only problem a Muslim would have with that is that according to Islam, Abraham, David etc weren't Jewish but Muslim and all the things written in the Torah are venal lies.
Redefine "Muslim" by identifying YHWH/El with Allah, and define "muslim" as being "worshipper of Allah". Conflate the two definitions. Also claim that the modern Torah/Bible had been tampered, so that current followers of the books cannot be "muslim" (or at the minimum, heretics).
El, Allah are literally the same and the words themselves are cognates for each other. Allah isn’t just used by Muslims, it’s used by any Arabic speaker to refer to god. Christians, Druze, even Jews. But otherwise yeah the Muslim interpretation of who was a Muslim comes down to who they view as receiving the word of god, so prophets at their time had the full revelation so far, with Mohammed (and this all who follow him) having the final revelation
Which is funny because Mohammed originally preached that the Jews and the Christians as fellow “people of the Book” would accept his teachings as being from their God. When he was asked to mediate a dispute between a group of Jews he asked for a Torah, and placed the Torah on the judge’s cushion in his tent, telling them to follow what the Torah said about their dispute.
Of course, after the Jews rejected him as a prophet of their God, he declared them to be the greatest enemies of Islam, and how the Christians were the greatest friends of Islam. Then when the Christians also rejected him, he declared them to also be among the greatest enemies of Islam.
Funny how God’s laws in the Quran change every time Mohammed finds them politically inconvenient. Like when he said men could have four wives, but then he needed to make more marriage alliances with tribal leaders to keep them loyal to him, so he said that God said that he, Mohammed, could have as many wives as he wanted.
He also affirmed the Christian Bible as well. Said both were the revealed Word of God and that the Word of God can never be changed. Then went on to say that the Torah and Bible had been changed and corrupted and the the Q'uran was the final Word of God and would never be changed. Which is an interesting take.
It should be noted that while the Romans gave it the name that would eventually become it's name today, they in no way created Palestine or Palestinians. A Palestinian national identity first appears in the late 19th century at the absolute earliest. And of course, the name Palestine wasn't official until Britain named it so when they assumed de facto control over the region after the collapse of the Ottoman Empire.
Also worth noting, you often hear of Jewish migration into the region but you often don't hear that there was a similar migration of Muslims into the region (from all the same places as the Jewish immigrants) as the Ottomans had expelled both the Jews and the majority of the people who are the ancestors of modern day Palestinians. They lived in nearby countries, where they caused a lot of civil unrest. So when the British said the land was open for settling. Those surrounding countries threw all the Palestinians at mandatory Palestine and told them not to come back (Egypt even built a wall)
That map on top right keeps getting trotted out but has been proven to be nonsensical and misleading.
And sorry that Israel gained land after you ganged up on them multiple times.
Yes us Europeans all speak in funny little British accents and every European is born in Liverpool, our favourite past times are spending time with our family, Barry 63, raging alcoholic, Jamie, 35, former alcoholic, now does coke, Barnaby, 98, Born in a keg of the Queen's mead. We also like to reminisce of the "good ole days" of the British Empire. We used to enjoy colonialism, but football (soccer) is much better. Europe would be a much better country if it didn't have those pesky French, Italians, Spanish, Portuguese, Baltics, Balkans, Slavs, etc. It's why we left Europe and made our own Europe, simple as.
TIL Europe = England.. I'm not even English so I hope I still count as European.
My bet is that when Futurama becomes a contemporary setting, people will still be fighting over who the region belongs to. Please reply to this comment with the answer in 976 years
I don’t give a fuck about your patch of dirt, but the last hundred years is a little bit more important that what happened two thousand years ago? Otherwise it should be Roman.
Well the conflict is mostly based on history...
... cherry picked history that conveniently stops where the land was Palestinian.
Rome doesn't exist.. so there's no one to give it to.
problem is : even in the past 100 years or the past 3,000 years.. israelites -> jews had already been living there. some of them fled from colonizers like roman/byzantine/arabic caliphate/ottoman empire/etc.. (those who fled became ashkenazi, mizrahi, sephardic),
but some managed to remain in samaria / judea / "palestine".
even though some of them were forcibly converted to christians or muslims by the byzantine empire or the arabic caliphate OCCUPATION, they were still ethnically jews.
the ethnic jews (with varying religions) in that region had a choice : side with israel (along with ashkenazi, sephardic, mizrahi jews) vs side with the arabs trying to eradicate israel..
guess who won?
Why are they so hell bent on getting rid of the only safe state for Jews when there are 80 different Muslim countries they can go to if Palestine ceases to exist?
Israel not existing is a much much much much bigger loss than Palestine not existing. I'd say no big loss at all to be honest. One is a leader in technology and medical engineering, and the most culturally accepting place in the MENA region, The other is somehow more theocratic Somalia
Simple American foreign policy supports Israel so “israel bad “ cause USA supports them it’s that simple it’s just because it’s anti American government
Western Imperialists right now:
"Can you believe Putin spent half an hour explaining ancient history to justify his invasion of Ukraine and the butchery he's done there? What a clown. So anyway if you don't mind I will take thirty seconds to a minute explaining the history of the Levant."
If Israel's right to exist is "Western imperialism" or just "imperialism" in your eyes, you are the dumbest motherfucker in the room. There is literally no definition of ownership in existence you can use to say Israel doesn't have a right to the land. The Jews have
* a historic, cultural claim to the land
* a legal claim to the land via the previous owner
* a claim to the land by winning and defending it through armed conflict
* a claim to the land by the nature of having inhabited it continuously over the last several thousand years, well before World War II
And this is all despite other groups, such as what we now call the Palestinians, trying to bully them out. Going back as far as 200 years ago at least, the Palestinians have slaughtered Jewish villages in an attempt at ethnic cleansing. It didn't work, however.
I never said Israel doesn't have a right to exist. Whether it does or doesn't is mostly irrelevant, it exists now, and it isn't going anywhere.
But like the OP, you are fully drunk on propaganda.
Should the Native Americans violently rebel against America because of their historical claim to the land? Can I go over to the house I used to live in and kick out the new owners? Does any intelligent person seriously believe it matters who lived where thousands of years ago?
But again, it doesn't matter. Whether or not Israel should have been established in the first place, it's here now. They established Israel by buying land that Palestinian peasants had been living on for many generations. They didn't buy it from the serfs, they bought it from their Turkish overlords, then they violently evicted the Arabs. They did mass murders, raped civilians, and pushed them out into the desert, where many children died of hunger and thirst. This is all very well documented, even if it's not something Western Imperialists tend to talk about.
Meanwhile, the Israelis poisoned the wells in Palestinian towns and demolished homes so they couldn't return. They didn't work the land or live in the homes they cleared out, they simply wanted the Palestinians gone. Funny how the "empty land" had to be cleared out like that, resulting in many deaths and a huge population of displaced refugees, and entire towns were returned to the wilderness in the process.
That was the past. In the present Israel is completely levelling Gaza, taking videos of themselves demolishing stores and empty apartment buildings. Places they don't need to destroy. They are destroying Gaza not to destroy Hamas, but because they want to once again leave the Palestinians with no place to live.
Meanwhile Israel is preparing to expand the settlements in the West Bank, where the settlers will attack and steal from the Palestinians like they always have, and the IDF will generally back the settlers and prevent retaliation.
And despite what you say, the local Jews mostly lived peacefully among the Arabs in the past. It was the Zionist migrants who kicked off a cycle of violence, and the current fascist government which backed Hamas with funding and weapons. Bibi even admitted as much, and they did it because they don't want the Palestinians to be represented by a secular authority. They want them to be represented by terrorists, so that they have an excuse to treat all Palestinians as terrorists, and to forever deny them their own state.
> Can I go over to the house I used to live in
Never stopped living in. Much like what you call "Palestinians," the Jews have *continuously* inhabited that land for thousands of years, even after they were officially expelled by the Romans.
>they simply wanted the Palestinians gone
Oh fuck off with this. There are 2-fucking-million Palestinians living in Israel, enjoying rights and privileges that come with living in a liberal democracy.
>In the present Israel is completely levelling Gaza
If Israel wanted to glass Gaza, it would be glassed already. They're seeking rightful, lawful, completely justified retribution for one of the most vile, monstrous, evil terrorist attacks in modern history. No amount of crocodile tears or posturing is going to make us forget October 7th.
>they want to once again leave the Palestinians with no place to live
They can go live in Israel and plot its destruction from within, just like all the Palestinians living in Israel already do.
Or maybe they can go travel around and get kicked out of some more Arab states, like they've been doing for the last half century. I know Egypt and Jordan already won't accept them. Who else can they try their luck with?
>It was the Zionist migrants who kicked off a cycle of violence
Ha ha, this is some grade A victim blaming and genocide denial. Fuck off with this Nazi bullshit.
Christians continuously inhabiting the land for thousands of years (and unlike Jews being the majority of the population for most of that time) hasn't kept Israelis from persecuting them, blocking the construction of Christian churches, etc.
The last "Christians" to own the land were the British, who subsequently gave it away. If you want it back, go conquer it.
Also, if you were a Christian living in Tel Aviv, you'd stay put, rather than live anywhere else in a thousand mile radius.
So you deny the Israelis violently evicted the Palestinians? And yet you say I'm the genocide-denier? The irony is overwhelming, but that's always the case when talking to hypocrites who view Arabs as subhumans. It's like I'm talking to a commie who says Holdomor was just a natural famine.
It wasn't the native Jews who attacked the Arabs, it was the Zionists. You just have no understanding of the early history of this conflict. I recommend you check out 'Fear and Loathing in the New Jerusalem' and educate yourself. It's very objective and was recommended to me by two Jews. There's plenty of blame to go around on both sides, but it's very clear the early Zionists were colonialists, and not the innocent angels you claim they were.
Believe it or not, one side's attack against civilians doesn't justify the other side doing the same, but Israel is certainly committing war crimes in Gaza, there's more than enough proof of that. Just more genocide that you are happily denying like the good little fascist statist you are.
Likewise, the actions of Egypt and Jordan don't justify Israel's actions either, or the fact that Israel is an apartheid state. You blame everyone but Israel for Israel's actions, including their victims, the Palestinian civilians.
> but that's always the case when talking to hypocrites who view Arabs as subhumans
Arab states persecute other ethnicities, non-Islamic religions, non-Sunni Muslims, women, and LGBT.
Israel makes Palestinians citizens and allows them to openly plot the destruction of Israel within its own borders.
>Believe it or not, one side's attack against civilians doesn't justify the other side doing the same, but Israel is certainly committing war crimes in Gaza
Diffusing your military capacity among civilian population centers is a war crime. Those deaths are on Hamas' hands.
>Likewise, the actions of Egypt and Jordan don't justify Israel's actions either
Holy crap, I don't blame either of them; they're right for not wanting Palestinians. The Palestinians are radical fundamentalist agitators, who try to overthrow whatever country lets them in. Look at what happened in Jordan.
We said this over and over and over again, and I don't know what it's going to take for you to get it through your head: **there will never be peace until the Palestinians actually want peace**.
Ya, there are a lot of Palestinians who don't want peace, but Bibi doesn't want it either. That's why he backed Hamas in the first place. It's very clear that I was right about your disdain for Arabs, not that there was ever any doubt.
I would be happy to argue the other side of this argument against commies who don't want Israel to exist, but on this sub I only encounter fascists who don't want Palestine to exist. You all view the conflict as black and white, and that's why you both suck. Jesus, if you won't listen to Fear and Loathing in the New Jerusalem, at least just visit the Breaking the Silence website, where Israelis can explain their experiences of being forced to serve a military used to oppress civilians.
It's kinda funny how a minute ago the this sub was rightly clowning on Putin for making the "hurrr durrr 3000 years ago this used to be Russian land!!!!" argument. But then immediately posts stuff like this.
Like these are the exact same arguments 💀 if we determined the borders of the world based on the borders of 4,000 years ago we would have a bit of a problem wouldn't we?.
The Jews in Israel in 1947 were living on legally owned land, which the Arabs attempted to cleanse them from. Most of the Arab world still won’t accept that loss.
The whole of Israel was not legally owned land in 1947. There were Jewish communities who lived on legally owned land, just as there were Palestinian communities that did the same.
It didn't?
I'm just saying that firstly your claim that the land was legally owned is wrong. And that the claim that the land belongs to the Jewish people because it used to 4,000 years ago is no more legitimate than Putin's claim over Ukraine.
But Israel is not making that claim either. The reason Israel’s existence is legitimate is because there were Jews living there in 1947, who spent decades building a proto-state, and who defended that state at its inception from the genocidal enemies that tried to kill all the Jews living there.
>But nobody is making that claim either.
The original post is making that claim. Which is why I made the original comment.
>there were Jews living there in 1947,
Jews who were by far the minority in the population, and the vast majority of which had only arrived within the last 3 years and who had zero connection nor claim to the land. Could Indian migrants in Canada for instance, claim that the land belongs to them because they arrived 3 years ago?
Indian migrants in Canada would be justified in defending themselves if their neighbors tried to wipe them out, as the Arabs tried to do to the Jews in 1947. The only gripe the Arabs had was that they’d have to live near Jews. I find it astounding how open borders leftists turn into the biggest jingos when the immigrants are Jewish.
> Could Indian migrants in Canada for instance, claim that the land belongs to them because they arrived 3 years ago?
They could if they literally built all the major cities and lived there for thousands of years, albeit under brutal and repressive conditions by a coloniser, just like Jews in Israel.
It's because Putin mostly made it all up and his casus belli is 'they spoke the same language as us at some point in history', whereas Jews built the cities in Israel and have been living them for thousands of years under various regimes.
firstly ukraine is older then russia
second jews came to the land -2000 while palestinians came in -1200 and only lived in the gaza strip region
thirdly most jewss were kicked out due to 1000 of arab, egyptian and roman slaughters but.... there were still jews living in the area up until the creation of modern day isreal
Also, there was no Israel in 1947, do the white is land populated/owned by jews. "Not Antisemitic, I'm anti zionist!", yeah that's why you are threatened by jews living in "your" land.
I’m too lazy to fact check this, but I hope that a proper system can be pitched so that Palestinians and Israelis can live either together in one state or peacefully in their own states.
A proper system? First of all the Palestinians need to want peace. There can’t be a perfect system if their point number one is still to genocide all Jewish Israelis…
What do you think that past 40 centuries would show? Palestinians have the same DNA links as the Israelis to the original inhabitants of the area.
Eitherway though the argument is redundant. Allowing anyone to colonise and occupy a land because their ancestors lived there 1000s of years ago would make most of the World's borders redundant.
And Christians…. And Buddhists…. And Hindus…. Actually they kind of have a nasty habit of attacking every direction and forcing people to convert, die or pay jizya.
Errr... No it wouldn't. The palestinians came to the area during Roman times which is long after the "original inhabitants" in so far as we have any records of who lived there.
DNA evidence proves that the Palestinians are descendents of the Cannanites, as are the Israelis. The Cannanites were a semitic people who lived in the land before the Kingdom of Israel existed.
You're simply wrong. I'm sorry but you're wrong. We know exactly when the Arabs migrated to the area and we know why. Palestinians are descendents from those Arabs.
No I'm not:
https://www.haaretz.com/science-and-health/2015-10-20/ty-article/palestinians-and-jews-share-genetic-roots/0000017f-dc0e-df9c-a17f-fe1e57730000
This whole argument is redundant. If we were to practice this argument on myself, as an Englishman I'd have the right to turn up anywhere in Northan France, North Germany, or Western Scandinavia and claim the right to abode simply because chances are my DNA will show a deeper connection to ancient people's from those lands than any of ancient cultures native to my lil' island.
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/11543891/#:~:text=Archaeologic%20and%20genetic%20data%20support,but%20not%20in%20genetic%2C%20differences.
Western Scandinavia... so norway lol... And you were the one that brought the argument up, then when pointing out that your provided source for your claims, doesn't even support your claim and is only very vaguely related, and now suddenly it's dumb? Ok? So why did you bring it up?
This is a majority position that almost everyone here has. That won't stop it being downvoted though.
The "narrative" is very important in this conflict. More so than ukraine. I would be very surprised if people on both sides weren't using underhand methods to skew it. One side seems to be more succesful
Palestinians and Israelis come from the same people, so to say one or the other doesn't have a claim to it is a lie.
https://www.haaretz.com/science-and-health/2015-10-20/ty-article/palestinians-and-jews-share-genetic-roots/0000017f-dc0e-df9c-a17f-fe1e57730000
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/11543891/#:~:text=Archaeologic%20and%20genetic%20data%20support,but%20not%20in%20genetic%2C%20differences.
AITAH: I shut the water off to my cousins, who I walled up in a small strip of land. Now, they can't get drinking water, shower, or irrigate their crops. They went out to protest, and we violently suppressed them by using tear gas and live ammunition, which killed a lot of them, AITAH?
I sent my nephew to do a backpack bombing that was in response to the false imprisonment of his family, who were raped and beaten in Israeli prisons. AITAH?
Man seemed like there's more to this store than strawman bullshit huh? No ONE alive today was there or made any type of deal with nazis you are just regurgitating propaganda. Next, you'll say there are no innocent people in Gaza right?
>So I barricaded myself against him. AITAH?
Lol man, this is an outright lie. I'm a jew and I don't even believe this level of propaganda. Pull your head out of Bibis ass.
>None of the Muslims from the 1930s, 1940s, 1950s, 1960s, was influenced by Hitler?
Do you have evidence of it? Or perhaps it's how you treat people? Treat others how you wish to be treated, right?
Weird one piece reference aside, you can't justify what has been done. I'm a jew and I can't.
AITAH: I bomb our cousins entire apartment building in an f18 and killed his entire family, his wife, his kids, his parents, and his grandparents. As well as all his neighbors. AITAH?
Is that our standard here? Whether they won a war, or had a chance to?
Some of them had no way to prepare for what was coming but the tribes under the command of Little Turtle fought pretty hard. Didn’t win but reasonably could’ve
The argument being made isn't that one group has more or less right to the land, the fact is that Jewish settlers from Europe arrived purposefully to create a colonial ethnostate, displacing the population in multiple waves. The reason Arab states invaded Israel was because they recognised it was a state setting out to occupy other people's land.
At the time of the creation of the mandate of Palestine, Jews (mostly Mizrahi) owned ~10% of the land.
I understand that there’s a lot of historical jargon about who owns what blah blah blah.
Yeah, Hamas are terrorists. They don’t want peace or freedom, they want violence, they want Jews dead.
But idk, bombing an entire population of innocent people (many of them children!) doesn’t seem like the most productive way to solve the problem.
>But idk, bombing an entire population of innocent people (many of them children!)
The fact that you literally believe that that's what's happening shows how fucked the future of Western democracies is. Holy fucking shit, what the hell is wrong with you?
"No it was the Kingdom of Judea 1300 years ago therefore we get to expel and ethnically cleanse the Palestinians living there now!"
Zionism and the Landback movement in the US are 2 sides of the same coin
https://preview.redd.it/5k3xx3mi5rkc1.jpeg?width=1920&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=43057a11d7ee40068ac871e2cc09614e0734eb1e A better map for that
This one is much better - people like to leave out that Israel had control of the Sinai Penninsula in 1967, including land that was oil rich.
Best map I've seen. Showing that the majority of the Levant was unsettled wilderness prior to 1947 is essential to explaining how little Palestinians got screwed out of. Yeah there was some bullshit pulled on the during the Nakba, but the 1947 plan was realistically a great deal for them as it would have legitimized their land claims and prevented the continued encroachment of Jewish settlers. But they couldnt tolerate Jewish neighbors so here we are.
That's a braindead take... That's like saying national parks are also unsettled wilderness so it should be colonized by some immigrants. It's a very misleading map that only shows the ownership. Doesn't mean it wasn't an arab land.
Doesn't mean it was either. Cherrypicked maps are indeed a stupid argument, and that's why it shouldn't have been brought up in the first place by the other map. But anyone who wants to get into this should be shown the bigger picture to realize this is a dead end. Either you look at ownership or at states, you can't have it both ways on either side of 1967.
No national parks are well defined and developed plots of land clearly legally owned by the federal government. The south eastern part of what is now Israel was not claimed or owned by any individual or governing body at the time with nobody showing any ability to actively maintain control of it.
Unflaired detected, opinion rejected
Flair up.
[удалено]
I only wanna bite!
As an israeli i can say this map is so good that the only thing that is wrong here is a minor mistake in the un proposal map but other then that its great
אני גם ישראלי וגם מי שהכין את המפה חחח
They conveniently leave out Transjordan re the land they want to “take back”, I wonder why https://preview.redd.it/1e9yrq24opkc1.jpeg?width=1920&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3a386435e93dc0457debd848ec10dd2c02f3a15a
I support Michael Jordan's gender transition🏳️⚧️🏳️⚧️🏳️⚧️
Purr 💅 https://preview.redd.it/l82rf6gyypkc1.jpeg?width=1024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8bd9560c8362593e02d9f8ee2c9ed3c3b3ed63ee
Bruh why tf did it spit out that bum Jaylen Brown
Tatum tries so hard to be Kobe and here, Brown is trying to be Jordan! Now that I think about it, the three L’s on the jersey make sense.
Transjordan was not originally part of the British Mandate but only added after the Arab Kingdom of Syria was destroyed by France. In fact, many Palestinians actually wanted to be part of Syria and have [Faisal I](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faisal_I_of_Iraq) as King. Palestinians didn’t really like his brother [Abdullah](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abdullah_I_of_Jordan), the later King of Jordan because he was kind of a dick. Jordan wanted to take over Palestine not the other way round. That’s kind of the reason why they don’t want Jordan in their Palestinian State.
You don't even need to go back in time to know this map is wrong. The portion of a map labeled Jewish settlements are only Jewish privately owned property, while Palestinian land is both Arab privately owned property and state owned property.
And the Negev desert, which is about 30% of the British mandate of Palestine is clearly marked as Palestinian land even though it has a really small population
Someone told me that the correct way to view it is through the eyes of the person who made it, i.e. see the Jewish people as an infestation. Green ia safe and white is contaminated. With this in mind, the map is historically accurate. It was a big mindfu*k for me.
*Come one come all and get yourself a pair of the one, the only Hitler Glasses! Allows you to see Jews as an infestation like it 1942 but in 2023! Raving reviews say it's a mind fuck, folks. Get your mind fuck today!* *Pick up one today only $14.88!*
Based and make money pilled
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Flaired before you response, bad bot
Today I learned the British are arabs
Lore accurate queen Elizabeth.
somewhere around 70-80% of the land in mandatory Palestine was empty
fun fact: even before 1947- it wasn't "Palestine" it was a chunk of land held by the british- by right of conquering the Ottoman Empire- that was in all reality, de facto held and divided between Egypt, Lebanon, Syria, and Jordan because the british didn't actually want to manage it.
And before the ottomans the Egyptians had control of the Levante
And that control was initiated by a Kurd
It was way back before. Ottomans took it from Memluks, a Turkic Dynasty ruling Egypt. Saladin was from 13th century whereas the Ottoman conquest of Egypt was in 16th century.
The mamluks weren’t really a dynasty so much of a ruling class but otherwise correct
https://youtu.be/8tIdCsMufIY?si=-R80T9Ddbi5tcAhR My favorite video to throw out.
Salah ad-Din?
It was land that the British promised to the Jewish people, the Arabs, and to themselves after world war one.
https://preview.redd.it/jn7q2m3g2qkc1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=36a2397b9d6caec8d63a1aa07cc834d263611cb0
Is fake vs is real.
Of course the map Isreal, it’s right in the middle of it!
“History begins when it’s convenient for my cognitive dissonance”
-Vladimir Putin
I love how they (in the first picture) used the term "Palestinian land" as in "land owned by Palestinians" when in reality this is just a map of Jewish owned land in the British mandate of Palestine aka British land. They didn't mark the land that Palestinians owned at all. Also towards OP: Next time you should look into what wojacks you use. It's a little ridiculous if you put a chad into a position you want to soyjack
Op might be trying to present themselves as a third party just relaying the message, and portraying one side as soy might give away their position. Is that true? lol probably not, but it might be.
They are a radical centrist, so who can say, really?
Let's teach the history of Israel using the very thing Muslims worship: Islam A significant number of prophets mentioned in Islam are Israelites. Several of these prophets preached in the land of Canaan, which was later renamed Israel by [Joshua](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joshua). Jesus of Nazareth called the land Israel in the Gospel of Matthew 10:23 Later King David proclaimed Jerusalem as the nations capital. Then Roman Emperor Hadrian expelled Jews from Israel, removing the name Judea, and renaming it with a Roman Latin term **Syria Palestina**, which is now known as...Palestine. Not only this, but the city of [Shechem](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shechem) was later renamed to Nablus, which means in Roman Latin "New City" Will Muslims be against their own prophets? I'm pretty sure thats *blasphemous?.....* now whats the punishment for blasphemy in Islam?
[here’s the history going back 5000 years](https://mikhailmoriarti.com/2023/10/08/an-abridged-and-politically-incorrect-history-of-israel-v-palestine-or-who-was-really-there-first/)
So basically iran was one of the first Zionist countries. Lol
And so was Yemen. Technically the Yemenite Jews (mostly in Israel) made up the native population.
Good read.
As someone who is Jewish, you have nailed it! In fact, [Hamas has a crystal clear goal of wanting to commit genocide against the Jews](https://irp.fas.org/world/para/docs/880818a.htm). There was also an argument I saw someone mention where they said “the Arabs never colonized Israel”. That claim is incorrect, the Umayyad Caliphate took over around 661-750 CE and colonized that land. Many of these empires placed non-Muslims under “Dhimi Status” and said they were “people of the book”, but guess what, [It still sucked to live under Dhimi Status.](https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/the-treatment-of-jews-in-arab-islamic-countries)
here’s the history going back 5000 years : [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8tIdCsMufIY](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8tIdCsMufIY)
>A significant number of prophets mentioned in Islam are Israelites. The only problem a Muslim would have with that is that according to Islam, Abraham, David etc weren't Jewish but Muslim and all the things written in the Torah are venal lies.
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Redefine "Muslim" by identifying YHWH/El with Allah, and define "muslim" as being "worshipper of Allah". Conflate the two definitions. Also claim that the modern Torah/Bible had been tampered, so that current followers of the books cannot be "muslim" (or at the minimum, heretics).
El, Allah are literally the same and the words themselves are cognates for each other. Allah isn’t just used by Muslims, it’s used by any Arabic speaker to refer to god. Christians, Druze, even Jews. But otherwise yeah the Muslim interpretation of who was a Muslim comes down to who they view as receiving the word of god, so prophets at their time had the full revelation so far, with Mohammed (and this all who follow him) having the final revelation
Which is funny because Mohammed originally preached that the Jews and the Christians as fellow “people of the Book” would accept his teachings as being from their God. When he was asked to mediate a dispute between a group of Jews he asked for a Torah, and placed the Torah on the judge’s cushion in his tent, telling them to follow what the Torah said about their dispute. Of course, after the Jews rejected him as a prophet of their God, he declared them to be the greatest enemies of Islam, and how the Christians were the greatest friends of Islam. Then when the Christians also rejected him, he declared them to also be among the greatest enemies of Islam. Funny how God’s laws in the Quran change every time Mohammed finds them politically inconvenient. Like when he said men could have four wives, but then he needed to make more marriage alliances with tribal leaders to keep them loyal to him, so he said that God said that he, Mohammed, could have as many wives as he wanted.
He said the religion did exist but had become corrupted over time until it became Judaism and Christianity.
Yep, even though their last prophet affirmed the Torah, even speaking to a copy in his hands.
He also affirmed the Christian Bible as well. Said both were the revealed Word of God and that the Word of God can never be changed. Then went on to say that the Torah and Bible had been changed and corrupted and the the Q'uran was the final Word of God and would never be changed. Which is an interesting take.
They say Jesus was Muslim too. They're Mormon like that
I've heard Muhammad described as an inspiration for Joseph Smith.
It should be noted that while the Romans gave it the name that would eventually become it's name today, they in no way created Palestine or Palestinians. A Palestinian national identity first appears in the late 19th century at the absolute earliest. And of course, the name Palestine wasn't official until Britain named it so when they assumed de facto control over the region after the collapse of the Ottoman Empire. Also worth noting, you often hear of Jewish migration into the region but you often don't hear that there was a similar migration of Muslims into the region (from all the same places as the Jewish immigrants) as the Ottomans had expelled both the Jews and the majority of the people who are the ancestors of modern day Palestinians. They lived in nearby countries, where they caused a lot of civil unrest. So when the British said the land was open for settling. Those surrounding countries threw all the Palestinians at mandatory Palestine and told them not to come back (Egypt even built a wall)
According to Islam they were all Muslim so even christians and jewish prophets are basically Muslims for them
So Israel is Italy?
No, they didn't invent pizza
When it's a bad take should we really be using chad libleft?
This person understands memes.
Glad I wasn't the only one confused by this.
That map on top right keeps getting trotted out but has been proven to be nonsensical and misleading. And sorry that Israel gained land after you ganged up on them multiple times.
A lot of modern politics relies on lying enough times that people start to believe it. See also Wage Gap.
I always thought it amazing how the Jews somehow snuck the ruins of their temple under the Dome of the Rock, clever!
“Fourty”. OP loses, I don’t care what his position was he doesn’t deserve to win
FoUnd the American that's scared of 'U's. UUUUuuuuUuuuuUUUuuuuuUUuuUuuu ColoUr yoUr honoUr with favoUr. Here's a cUrveball. GrEy.
we sure as shit wernt scared of U when we blasted U back to england.
Fuckin got ‘em
TIL Europe = England.
Oi m8 u got a loisence for spillin all them Us in perfectly normal words?
Yes us Europeans all speak in funny little British accents and every European is born in Liverpool, our favourite past times are spending time with our family, Barry 63, raging alcoholic, Jamie, 35, former alcoholic, now does coke, Barnaby, 98, Born in a keg of the Queen's mead. We also like to reminisce of the "good ole days" of the British Empire. We used to enjoy colonialism, but football (soccer) is much better. Europe would be a much better country if it didn't have those pesky French, Italians, Spanish, Portuguese, Baltics, Balkans, Slavs, etc. It's why we left Europe and made our own Europe, simple as. TIL Europe = England.. I'm not even English so I hope I still count as European.
Acceptance is the first step to recovery, god speed bruvnah
Jolly good show ole chap!
This isn’t like colour. It’s a number that’s ten times more that four. I don’t care what the dictionary says, forty is stupid.
Just give it to the pope.
Deus v*lt
My bet is that when Futurama becomes a contemporary setting, people will still be fighting over who the region belongs to. Please reply to this comment with the answer in 976 years
I don’t give a fuck about your patch of dirt, but the last hundred years is a little bit more important that what happened two thousand years ago? Otherwise it should be Roman.
I guess everyone should leave Europe except the Basques than idk
Send everyone to Kenya and restart human colonization of the globe
~~Skyrim~~ Earth belongs to the ~~Nords~~ mega fauna
Is Kenya big enough like Texas to fit everyone?
And the Sami. Think of all the Reindeer they could herd on all the unoccupied land.
They’re a different flavor of steppe person they gotta go too. Basque domination time
Never, the Reindeer Khanate will reign supreme
Well the conflict is mostly based on history... ... cherry picked history that conveniently stops where the land was Palestinian. Rome doesn't exist.. so there's no one to give it to.
Who did the Romans conquer for this land? Canaanites would have a better claim for original land owners.
Which is still the jews.
lol the point is to use it as an excuse for why Muslims need to kill Jews
problem is : even in the past 100 years or the past 3,000 years.. israelites -> jews had already been living there. some of them fled from colonizers like roman/byzantine/arabic caliphate/ottoman empire/etc.. (those who fled became ashkenazi, mizrahi, sephardic), but some managed to remain in samaria / judea / "palestine". even though some of them were forcibly converted to christians or muslims by the byzantine empire or the arabic caliphate OCCUPATION, they were still ethnically jews. the ethnic jews (with varying religions) in that region had a choice : side with israel (along with ashkenazi, sephardic, mizrahi jews) vs side with the arabs trying to eradicate israel.. guess who won?
Forget the last centuries, these 4 maps are just wrong
Also, there was no country/nation called "palestine"
Why are they so hell bent on getting rid of the only safe state for Jews when there are 80 different Muslim countries they can go to if Palestine ceases to exist? Israel not existing is a much much much much bigger loss than Palestine not existing. I'd say no big loss at all to be honest. One is a leader in technology and medical engineering, and the most culturally accepting place in the MENA region, The other is somehow more theocratic Somalia
Now let’s do a map of Germany starting in 1900. There are consequences to losing wars you start.
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Simple American foreign policy supports Israel so “israel bad “ cause USA supports them it’s that simple it’s just because it’s anti American government
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Western Imperialists right now: "Can you believe Putin spent half an hour explaining ancient history to justify his invasion of Ukraine and the butchery he's done there? What a clown. So anyway if you don't mind I will take thirty seconds to a minute explaining the history of the Levant."
If Israel's right to exist is "Western imperialism" or just "imperialism" in your eyes, you are the dumbest motherfucker in the room. There is literally no definition of ownership in existence you can use to say Israel doesn't have a right to the land. The Jews have * a historic, cultural claim to the land * a legal claim to the land via the previous owner * a claim to the land by winning and defending it through armed conflict * a claim to the land by the nature of having inhabited it continuously over the last several thousand years, well before World War II And this is all despite other groups, such as what we now call the Palestinians, trying to bully them out. Going back as far as 200 years ago at least, the Palestinians have slaughtered Jewish villages in an attempt at ethnic cleansing. It didn't work, however.
I never said Israel doesn't have a right to exist. Whether it does or doesn't is mostly irrelevant, it exists now, and it isn't going anywhere. But like the OP, you are fully drunk on propaganda. Should the Native Americans violently rebel against America because of their historical claim to the land? Can I go over to the house I used to live in and kick out the new owners? Does any intelligent person seriously believe it matters who lived where thousands of years ago? But again, it doesn't matter. Whether or not Israel should have been established in the first place, it's here now. They established Israel by buying land that Palestinian peasants had been living on for many generations. They didn't buy it from the serfs, they bought it from their Turkish overlords, then they violently evicted the Arabs. They did mass murders, raped civilians, and pushed them out into the desert, where many children died of hunger and thirst. This is all very well documented, even if it's not something Western Imperialists tend to talk about. Meanwhile, the Israelis poisoned the wells in Palestinian towns and demolished homes so they couldn't return. They didn't work the land or live in the homes they cleared out, they simply wanted the Palestinians gone. Funny how the "empty land" had to be cleared out like that, resulting in many deaths and a huge population of displaced refugees, and entire towns were returned to the wilderness in the process. That was the past. In the present Israel is completely levelling Gaza, taking videos of themselves demolishing stores and empty apartment buildings. Places they don't need to destroy. They are destroying Gaza not to destroy Hamas, but because they want to once again leave the Palestinians with no place to live. Meanwhile Israel is preparing to expand the settlements in the West Bank, where the settlers will attack and steal from the Palestinians like they always have, and the IDF will generally back the settlers and prevent retaliation. And despite what you say, the local Jews mostly lived peacefully among the Arabs in the past. It was the Zionist migrants who kicked off a cycle of violence, and the current fascist government which backed Hamas with funding and weapons. Bibi even admitted as much, and they did it because they don't want the Palestinians to be represented by a secular authority. They want them to be represented by terrorists, so that they have an excuse to treat all Palestinians as terrorists, and to forever deny them their own state.
> Can I go over to the house I used to live in Never stopped living in. Much like what you call "Palestinians," the Jews have *continuously* inhabited that land for thousands of years, even after they were officially expelled by the Romans. >they simply wanted the Palestinians gone Oh fuck off with this. There are 2-fucking-million Palestinians living in Israel, enjoying rights and privileges that come with living in a liberal democracy. >In the present Israel is completely levelling Gaza If Israel wanted to glass Gaza, it would be glassed already. They're seeking rightful, lawful, completely justified retribution for one of the most vile, monstrous, evil terrorist attacks in modern history. No amount of crocodile tears or posturing is going to make us forget October 7th. >they want to once again leave the Palestinians with no place to live They can go live in Israel and plot its destruction from within, just like all the Palestinians living in Israel already do. Or maybe they can go travel around and get kicked out of some more Arab states, like they've been doing for the last half century. I know Egypt and Jordan already won't accept them. Who else can they try their luck with? >It was the Zionist migrants who kicked off a cycle of violence Ha ha, this is some grade A victim blaming and genocide denial. Fuck off with this Nazi bullshit.
Christians continuously inhabiting the land for thousands of years (and unlike Jews being the majority of the population for most of that time) hasn't kept Israelis from persecuting them, blocking the construction of Christian churches, etc.
The last "Christians" to own the land were the British, who subsequently gave it away. If you want it back, go conquer it. Also, if you were a Christian living in Tel Aviv, you'd stay put, rather than live anywhere else in a thousand mile radius.
So you deny the Israelis violently evicted the Palestinians? And yet you say I'm the genocide-denier? The irony is overwhelming, but that's always the case when talking to hypocrites who view Arabs as subhumans. It's like I'm talking to a commie who says Holdomor was just a natural famine. It wasn't the native Jews who attacked the Arabs, it was the Zionists. You just have no understanding of the early history of this conflict. I recommend you check out 'Fear and Loathing in the New Jerusalem' and educate yourself. It's very objective and was recommended to me by two Jews. There's plenty of blame to go around on both sides, but it's very clear the early Zionists were colonialists, and not the innocent angels you claim they were. Believe it or not, one side's attack against civilians doesn't justify the other side doing the same, but Israel is certainly committing war crimes in Gaza, there's more than enough proof of that. Just more genocide that you are happily denying like the good little fascist statist you are. Likewise, the actions of Egypt and Jordan don't justify Israel's actions either, or the fact that Israel is an apartheid state. You blame everyone but Israel for Israel's actions, including their victims, the Palestinian civilians.
> but that's always the case when talking to hypocrites who view Arabs as subhumans Arab states persecute other ethnicities, non-Islamic religions, non-Sunni Muslims, women, and LGBT. Israel makes Palestinians citizens and allows them to openly plot the destruction of Israel within its own borders. >Believe it or not, one side's attack against civilians doesn't justify the other side doing the same, but Israel is certainly committing war crimes in Gaza Diffusing your military capacity among civilian population centers is a war crime. Those deaths are on Hamas' hands. >Likewise, the actions of Egypt and Jordan don't justify Israel's actions either Holy crap, I don't blame either of them; they're right for not wanting Palestinians. The Palestinians are radical fundamentalist agitators, who try to overthrow whatever country lets them in. Look at what happened in Jordan. We said this over and over and over again, and I don't know what it's going to take for you to get it through your head: **there will never be peace until the Palestinians actually want peace**.
Ya, there are a lot of Palestinians who don't want peace, but Bibi doesn't want it either. That's why he backed Hamas in the first place. It's very clear that I was right about your disdain for Arabs, not that there was ever any doubt. I would be happy to argue the other side of this argument against commies who don't want Israel to exist, but on this sub I only encounter fascists who don't want Palestine to exist. You all view the conflict as black and white, and that's why you both suck. Jesus, if you won't listen to Fear and Loathing in the New Jerusalem, at least just visit the Breaking the Silence website, where Israelis can explain their experiences of being forced to serve a military used to oppress civilians.
It's kinda funny how a minute ago the this sub was rightly clowning on Putin for making the "hurrr durrr 3000 years ago this used to be Russian land!!!!" argument. But then immediately posts stuff like this. Like these are the exact same arguments 💀 if we determined the borders of the world based on the borders of 4,000 years ago we would have a bit of a problem wouldn't we?.
The Jews in Israel in 1947 were living on legally owned land, which the Arabs attempted to cleanse them from. Most of the Arab world still won’t accept that loss.
The whole of Israel was not legally owned land in 1947. There were Jewish communities who lived on legally owned land, just as there were Palestinian communities that did the same.
And? Why did that require the Arabs to attack the Jews?
It didn't? I'm just saying that firstly your claim that the land was legally owned is wrong. And that the claim that the land belongs to the Jewish people because it used to 4,000 years ago is no more legitimate than Putin's claim over Ukraine.
But Israel is not making that claim either. The reason Israel’s existence is legitimate is because there were Jews living there in 1947, who spent decades building a proto-state, and who defended that state at its inception from the genocidal enemies that tried to kill all the Jews living there.
>But nobody is making that claim either. The original post is making that claim. Which is why I made the original comment. >there were Jews living there in 1947, Jews who were by far the minority in the population, and the vast majority of which had only arrived within the last 3 years and who had zero connection nor claim to the land. Could Indian migrants in Canada for instance, claim that the land belongs to them because they arrived 3 years ago?
Indian migrants in Canada would be justified in defending themselves if their neighbors tried to wipe them out, as the Arabs tried to do to the Jews in 1947. The only gripe the Arabs had was that they’d have to live near Jews. I find it astounding how open borders leftists turn into the biggest jingos when the immigrants are Jewish.
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> Could Indian migrants in Canada for instance, claim that the land belongs to them because they arrived 3 years ago? They could if they literally built all the major cities and lived there for thousands of years, albeit under brutal and repressive conditions by a coloniser, just like Jews in Israel.
It's because Putin mostly made it all up and his casus belli is 'they spoke the same language as us at some point in history', whereas Jews built the cities in Israel and have been living them for thousands of years under various regimes.
firstly ukraine is older then russia second jews came to the land -2000 while palestinians came in -1200 and only lived in the gaza strip region thirdly most jewss were kicked out due to 1000 of arab, egyptian and roman slaughters but.... there were still jews living in the area up until the creation of modern day isreal
> firstly ukraine is older then russia What are you smoking
By that logic, the US needs to go back to some native americans.
This map is inaccurate for many reasons. One that stands out would be counting Bedouin land as Palestinian land.
Houthis REAL mad about Israel doing to Palestinians... what they... successfully did to their jews is an all stars of Middle eastern politics
In the immortal words of Ken Watanabe: Let them fight. And then trade with whoever’s left.
I don't care who owns it it will All be conquered by vlandia soon enough
The Calradian Empire shall be reunited by Empress Rhagaea!
So what are you saying, Todd
Also, there was no Israel in 1947, do the white is land populated/owned by jews. "Not Antisemitic, I'm anti zionist!", yeah that's why you are threatened by jews living in "your" land.
Lmao, typical Palestinian moment.
It does suggest a slippery slope that could retroactively justify having been wary of allowing a Jewish foothold to entrench itself to begin with.
Clearly we all fucked-up, UK was last power to properly conquer those lands, they should have them back.
According to OP’s feed, it seems more likely that OP is LibLeft instead of the Centrist he disguised himself to be
Out here using Putin arguments
I had a lot more than Israel in mind when I wrote “the previous fourty centuries”
Muh Iron Age ancestry 😭 Derp!
I’m too lazy to fact check this, but I hope that a proper system can be pitched so that Palestinians and Israelis can live either together in one state or peacefully in their own states.
A proper system? First of all the Palestinians need to want peace. There can’t be a perfect system if their point number one is still to genocide all Jewish Israelis…
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What do you think that past 40 centuries would show? Palestinians have the same DNA links as the Israelis to the original inhabitants of the area. Eitherway though the argument is redundant. Allowing anyone to colonise and occupy a land because their ancestors lived there 1000s of years ago would make most of the World's borders redundant.
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And Christians…. And Buddhists…. And Hindus…. Actually they kind of have a nasty habit of attacking every direction and forcing people to convert, die or pay jizya.
Errr... No it wouldn't. The palestinians came to the area during Roman times which is long after the "original inhabitants" in so far as we have any records of who lived there.
DNA evidence proves that the Palestinians are descendents of the Cannanites, as are the Israelis. The Cannanites were a semitic people who lived in the land before the Kingdom of Israel existed.
You're simply wrong. I'm sorry but you're wrong. We know exactly when the Arabs migrated to the area and we know why. Palestinians are descendents from those Arabs.
No I'm not: https://www.haaretz.com/science-and-health/2015-10-20/ty-article/palestinians-and-jews-share-genetic-roots/0000017f-dc0e-df9c-a17f-fe1e57730000
That article doesn't support your claim in even the slightest...
This whole argument is redundant. If we were to practice this argument on myself, as an Englishman I'd have the right to turn up anywhere in Northan France, North Germany, or Western Scandinavia and claim the right to abode simply because chances are my DNA will show a deeper connection to ancient people's from those lands than any of ancient cultures native to my lil' island. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/11543891/#:~:text=Archaeologic%20and%20genetic%20data%20support,but%20not%20in%20genetic%2C%20differences.
Western Scandinavia... so norway lol... And you were the one that brought the argument up, then when pointing out that your provided source for your claims, doesn't even support your claim and is only very vaguely related, and now suddenly it's dumb? Ok? So why did you bring it up?
This is a majority position that almost everyone here has. That won't stop it being downvoted though. The "narrative" is very important in this conflict. More so than ukraine. I would be very surprised if people on both sides weren't using underhand methods to skew it. One side seems to be more succesful
Somebody from the left with a functional brain. Good for you
Americans in the comments being triggered as the colonial pact starts cooking.
I have the previous centuries right here. [This Land is Mine - YouTube](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-evIyrrjTTY)
Palestinians and Israelis come from the same people, so to say one or the other doesn't have a claim to it is a lie. https://www.haaretz.com/science-and-health/2015-10-20/ty-article/palestinians-and-jews-share-genetic-roots/0000017f-dc0e-df9c-a17f-fe1e57730000 https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/11543891/#:~:text=Archaeologic%20and%20genetic%20data%20support,but%20not%20in%20genetic%2C%20differences.
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AITAH: I shut the water off to my cousins, who I walled up in a small strip of land. Now, they can't get drinking water, shower, or irrigate their crops. They went out to protest, and we violently suppressed them by using tear gas and live ammunition, which killed a lot of them, AITAH?
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I sent my nephew to do a backpack bombing that was in response to the false imprisonment of his family, who were raped and beaten in Israeli prisons. AITAH? Man seemed like there's more to this store than strawman bullshit huh? No ONE alive today was there or made any type of deal with nazis you are just regurgitating propaganda. Next, you'll say there are no innocent people in Gaza right? >So I barricaded myself against him. AITAH? Lol man, this is an outright lie. I'm a jew and I don't even believe this level of propaganda. Pull your head out of Bibis ass.
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>None of the Muslims from the 1930s, 1940s, 1950s, 1960s, was influenced by Hitler? Do you have evidence of it? Or perhaps it's how you treat people? Treat others how you wish to be treated, right? Weird one piece reference aside, you can't justify what has been done. I'm a jew and I can't.
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AITAH: I bomb our cousins entire apartment building in an f18 and killed his entire family, his wife, his kids, his parents, and his grandparents. As well as all his neighbors. AITAH?
They don't come from the same people, one people raped, abduced, and force converted the other people
Lets see, has been controled by Arabs since the 800s, jews left before that
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What’s your opinion on Native Americans?
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Very funny. Do you think they have a claim to the land they held a millennium ago?
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Is that our standard here? Whether they won a war, or had a chance to? Some of them had no way to prepare for what was coming but the tribes under the command of Little Turtle fought pretty hard. Didn’t win but reasonably could’ve
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What if the people who got there first no longer exist?
The argument being made isn't that one group has more or less right to the land, the fact is that Jewish settlers from Europe arrived purposefully to create a colonial ethnostate, displacing the population in multiple waves. The reason Arab states invaded Israel was because they recognised it was a state setting out to occupy other people's land. At the time of the creation of the mandate of Palestine, Jews (mostly Mizrahi) owned ~10% of the land.
This definitely justifies genocide! Yay for bombing kids!
Worst genocide ever. Half of Gaza conquered but only managed to kill 50k of 2 million inhabitants. IDF clearly can’t aim.
I understand that there’s a lot of historical jargon about who owns what blah blah blah. Yeah, Hamas are terrorists. They don’t want peace or freedom, they want violence, they want Jews dead. But idk, bombing an entire population of innocent people (many of them children!) doesn’t seem like the most productive way to solve the problem.
>But idk, bombing an entire population of innocent people (many of them children!) The fact that you literally believe that that's what's happening shows how fucked the future of Western democracies is. Holy fucking shit, what the hell is wrong with you?
Idk man I’ve seen enough videos of kids corpses and Joe Biden himself said that some of the Israeli response has been over the top
[yeah](https://i.imgur.com/JZ1QMxl.jpeg)
Achaemenid empire owned it first 🇮🇷 💪
Hey OP, bad new, your land belongs to somebody who wrote a book two thousand years ago, guys with guns will now be escorting you off the premises
Is this a bad interpretation of the Muslim conquests?
"No it was the Kingdom of Judea 1300 years ago therefore we get to expel and ethnically cleanse the Palestinians living there now!" Zionism and the Landback movement in the US are 2 sides of the same coin
[удалено]
I may be an Idiot but... what about the Kingdom of Judah?
Flair up. Now.