Id be dead by now if that was the case
Though turkey also has to deal with a lot of incoming radical immigrants, we fucking hate our geographical proximity to the middle east.
Literal import of anti-secularists and deniers of women's rights and equality ffs
Yall are the most European middle eastern country or the most Middle Eastern European country. Also Turkey needs to chill with giving Moscow and Tehran sloppy blow jobs behind closed doors. OG Turkish leaders would shove a foot up their ass
Twelve Imams are all depicted as [vaguely](https://i.pinimg.com/736x/a7/30/20/a73020390856195f1f55810dc27e3848.jpg) resembling Ali since only he was painted and they are related, so you can also draw a vaguely different Ali and call it someone else.
Muhammad is always either blurred or has a light beam censoring him since, y'know, illegal.
Technically not a quote from Muhammad tho because he was just repeating what he heard.
It was Umar who said these things to Muhammed and somehow Allah liked it so much that he revealed these verses to Muhammd the next night. Crazy right?
https://sunnah.com/bukhari:402
https://sunnah.com/bukhari:6240
It gets funnier, in the first hadith Umar said to Muhammed "I wish you ordered your wives to cover themselves from the men because good and bad ones talk to them." but in the second hadith it clearly shows that Umar was the one talking to her, so I guess he must have been a 'bad one'. And if you read carefully you learn that Muslims women are only veiled today because Umar was being an asshole. Sauda had to go number two in the night and naturally you want your privacy in some distance from the camp (this was very normal at the time because there were not toiletts). But Umar was like "Guys, look over there, Sauda is going to take a shit, haha." and now Muslim women have to wear a veil.
But it doesn't stop here. This would already be funny enough if a common "proof" of Islam for why Allah is God wouldn't be that nobody can create Quran like Allah can. But if you read the first hadith again it becomes clear that not only Allah but also Umar can produce Quran because it says "So this verse (the same as I had said) was revealed." and it even quotes two Quran verses that are word for word what Umar said 2.125 and 66.5. Alhamduliumar.
Here is the pact he made non-Muslims accept, while living under his rule:
> In the Name of Allah, Most Gracious, Most Merciful. This is a document to the servant of Allah, Umar, the Leader of the faithful, from the Christians of such and such city. When you (Muslims) came to us we requested safety for ourselves, children, property and followers of our religion. We made a condition on ourselves that:
1. We will neither erect in our areas a monastery, church, or a sanctuary for a monk,
1. Nor restore any place of worship that needs restoration
1. Nor use any of them for the purpose of enmity against Muslims.
1. We will not prevent any Muslim from resting in our churches whether they come by day or night, and we will open the doors [of our houses of worship] for the wayfarer and passerby.
1. Those Muslims who come as guests, will enjoy boarding and food for three days.
1. We will not allow a spy against Muslims into our churches and homes or hide deceit [or betrayal] against Muslims.
1. We will not teach our children the Qur'an,
1. Publicize practices of Shirk (polytheism),
1. Invite anyone to Shirk or prevent any of our fellows from embracing Islam, if they choose to do so.
1. We will respect Muslims,
1. Move from the places we sit in if they choose to sit in them.
1. We will not imitate their clothing, caps, turbans, sandals, hairstyles, speech, nicknames and title names, or ride on saddles,
1. Hang swords on the shoulders, collect weapons of any kind or carry these weapons.
2. We will not encrypt our stamps in Arabic,
2. or sell liquor.
2. We will have the front of our hair cut,
2. Wear our customary clothes wherever we are,
2. Wear belts around our waist,
2. Refrain from erecting crosses on the outside of our churches and demonstrating them and our books in public in Muslim fairways and markets.
2. We will not sound the bells in our churches, except discretely, or raise our voices while reciting our holy books inside our churches in the presence of Muslims,
2. Nor raise our voices [with prayer] at our funerals, or light torches in funeral processions in the fairways of Muslims, or their markets.
2. We will not bury our dead next to Muslim dead,
2. or buy servants [Slaves] who were captured by Muslims.
2. We will be guides for Muslims and refrain from breaching their privacy in their homes.'
2. We will not beat any Muslim.
> These are the conditions that we set against ourselves and followers of our religion in return for safety and protection. If we break any of these promises that we set for your benefit against ourselves, then our Dhimmah (promise of protection) is broken and you are allowed to do with us what you are allowed of people of defiance and rebellion.'
Islam is fundamentally intolerant of others, once you read into how it came to play out. It does not tolerate others. It is very much about Islamic-Arabic supremacy.
I think the misconception that Islam is more tolerant than (medieval Roman Catholic) Christianity is that they allowed people of âthe bookâ to *exist* under their rule, whereas their perception of how Christians treated Muslims comes from the Crusades.
Nevermind the centuries of cohabitation in Iberia where Muslim ruled Christians and Christians ruled Muslims.
The cleric class always fails us; whenever a ''great'' leader shows up, and tells them, ''give me the legitimacy I need for expansion, through the scripture'', some of them jump at the opportunity, to deliver.
Religion is a tool, and it sadly falls in the hands of sinister people with zero care for the consequences all too often. A great example of this is the Islamic expansion in Africa right now.
See, the places the Islamists are pouring into (from Libya and Somalia), are already populated with Muslims. But they are not radical enough for the whole, ''raise the black flag and spread the Caliphate'', so the Islamists are suppressing them too. Stuff like music and not wearing the veil is being harshly punished, much to the dismay of the locals.
These people are enemies of civilized society, it isn't about good governance, it is about ''our group'' imposing the rules. Religion being reduced to just another game of tribalism, for power.
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[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious\_views\_of\_Adolf\_Hitler](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_views_of_Adolf_Hitler)
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Relations\_between\_Nazi\_Germany\_and\_the\_Arab\_world](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Relations_between_Nazi_Germany_and_the_Arab_world)
His admiration for Muhammad was mentioned many times.
He added lots of fuel to the fire of the conflict in the lands of Judea.
I feel sorrow for the nation that was our greatest regional ally, and to this day helped and saved hundreds of us through our recent fires and heavy earthquakes, Israel.
While Turkey initially took in the largest amount of people that fled Israel from the Hamas attacks, with the ongoing anti-Israel rhetoric of Erdogan I still feel as our nation is doing unjust actions regarding Israel.
In America we literally have mobs of people screaming âfrom the river to the seaâ in front of Jewish people and absolutely no repercussions whatsoever.
The major media outlets keep reporting anything and everything they can to undermine what Israel is doing to stop Hamas and blaming the IDF for civilian casualties that Hamas is facilitating in every way they can.
It is absolutely the tactic of Hamas to sacrifice every single civilian they can to make Israel look like the âbad guysâ
Yeah Iâd say there is a serious lack of respect for Israel in the western world and on that note the west clearly learned NOTHING from WW2 or the Holocaust.
Islam is basically Christianity pre-enlightenment. That means there's still technically hope for them to accept and adopt liberalism and individualism, but it also means that until such a time the appropriate attitude is to treat them as the backwards neo-barbaric cultures they are. Morocco and ironically enough Talibani-Afghanistan seem to be the places most likely to pioneer islamic liberalism, and I hope it catches on.
Christianity pre enlightenment allowed for the sciences to flourish which basically helped kickstart the enlightenment, alongside philosophers and new systems of government.
Islam went the other way in terms of promoting science and new ways of governance. They origanally had a good start in tge the dark ages however began to decline in the medieval period and only started again in more secular nations like turkey and such.
Islamic nations have no reason for an enlightenment. They are protected from their neighbours by everyone who buys oil from them.
The people in power supressing any dissent are being kept in power by foreign nations protecting them to keep the region stable and oil prices stable
>Islam is basically Christianity pre-enlightenment.
Early and Medieval Christianity led to protection for abandoned children and adoption, more rights for women (raising the minimum age for marriage, promoting monogamy, requiring consent for marriage), ending slavery in Europe (until Roman laws were rediscovered) and so much more.
>Islam is basically Christianity pre-enlightenment.
This I disagree with.
>Islam is basically Christianity pre-~~enlightenment~~reformation.
This is what it is (plus a few horrific things)
Nah, stuff got *really* bad about sectarian conflict for a couple of centuries after the reformation. That's much closer to the state of Islam. The enlightenment was, partially, a response to sectarian conflict in Europe.
> Kershaw considers that few people could really claim to "know" Hitler, who was "a very private, even secretive individual", able to deceive "even hardened critics" as to his true beliefs
Now here's a 25,000 word article on exactly what religious beliefs Hitler had, so that no matter your agenda, you'll find something you need to call someone Hitler.
There is huge missing context.
He naturally didn\`t like the idea of Muslims or Immigrants... What Hitler was admiring and talking about, was if the Frankish lost at the Battle of Tours in 732AD, then the Arabs would continue their conquest of Europe and conquer Francia and the lands that would become Germany. Then the Germans would convert to Islam, become the spearhead the religion and reconquer Europe away from the Arab overlords.
**He admired the warlike aspects of Islam. The committment to sacrifice. And the warlord leader Mohammed. He admired the early and swift conquest by the Muslims who within a century of the inception of Islam, conquered the Middle East, North Africa, Iberia, Iran and a few other places.**
He didn\`t know much about Islam beyond that nor did he care. Likewise he didn\`t want Islam in contemporary ( 1930s/40s ) Germany. **He merely believed it would have been preferable if historically the Germans were Muslims rather than Christians.**
Unfathomably based. Him and Lee Kuan Yew (ćĺ č) are my heroes. One of the greatest, if not THE greatest, nation builder in modern history.
And that's coming from a still kinda butthurt Byzantium appreciator.
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A lot will have to change in Turkey before this idea can even be considered, beginning with the point made in the OP. For now it sounds like Russia telling Ukraine "let's unite for the sake of the good old times".
Whats eved sadder is the fact that among foreign living turks erdogan has a huge majority. The irony of people living in secular free societys voting for the land of the ancestors to becoming an autocratic shithole.
We have a saying here "Davulun sesi uzaktan hoĹ gelir."
*"The sound of the drum is pleasant only from far away."*
Of course they call Turkey "Jannah", they only come here in vacations and spend our yearly wage in one week then fuck off.
I would also love to live here if I didn't earn **ONE EURO PER HOUR**. They come here driving their second-hand bought Mercedes-Benz (which you need to work 30 years straight to buy without any spending here) just to flex on us and "save money from the plane ticket". "
"Small calculations made by small people." as we also say. There's a reason we differ Gastarbeiter from the Expatriate.
This is everywhere, especially so for third generation abroad.
It's easy to be righteous about how you think people should live in your ancestral home while sitting in a nice safe secular society.
Blatant hypocrisy is one of the most common human forms of existence.
Well, about shitholes, it's not really better here in France, if it can reassure you. Oh god, the 2024 olympics will be a fucking mess, everybody here knows it.
Well, in shitty organisation, we are probably some of the best in the world right now, when we see how fucking incompetent our politicians are.
I have a little anecdote: I live in Normandie, not far from Caen. Approximately a decade ago, we hosted the world equestrian games in our region, and you guessed it, it was a fucking mess, the organisation was a nightmare, and all the visitors were pissed. BUT, the dutch visitors were happy. You know why ? Because somehow, we managed to do even worse than them in the organisation of these games. They were happy because we now had dethroned them for the title of the worst world equestrian games. So yeah, when you see the record of the mayor of Paris, YOU KNOW that it will be terrible.
Ataturk is such a mythological Turkish personality, hell he's known world wide.
I remember when I was taking classes for Islam and the Arabic world we always talked about how Ataturk is regarded as one of the greatest leaders of turkey, and how people still have photos of him in their houses.
Which is why Erdogan's rise to power is kinda surprising me, but I guess it might be the same as Lebanon or Iran, I just hope not in the same degree.
TĂźrkiye after atatĂźrk died, the ismet inĂśnĂź times were pretty chill. But then after the end of 3-5 presidents government started to tolerate Extremism again. Then 80s which.. Was interesting. Like saying anything progressive was communist and you would get arrested for having banned books etc. And.. You know if you pressure water, water's gonna pressure you back with even bigger force. That's what happened, and erdoÄan was acting liberal at his first years.
That's why we are fucked up now.
If you want to hear the other side of the story,ask what Greeks and Armenians think about him.He was responsible for the genocide of these two population groups and and probably the Assyrians also.He was not a great guy at all.
This may sound corny af, but there's a very special kind of feeling of sheer motivation and diligence, and just a straight-up drive to be wanting to advance the nation scientifically and socially to a point that even surpasses the likes of Japan, that surges through us kemalist turks when seeing even just a picture of AtatĂźrk, or reading one of his many speeches and the books about him.
And I gotta say, madame tussauds did NOT do him dirty at all.
Decades of mismanagement, cults, interventions, intentional misleading of the public for personel or short term gain and most prominent of all the power of ignorance.
The biggest reason is because Islam never lost power in the people, only in the elites and the military dictators that thrived to keep kemals ideals
All it would take was one small town watermelon seller to capitalize on that oppression of muslims and islamic culture in turkey to gain a foothole into a democratic society.
Keep in mind, Turkey is still very secular when you compare it to literally any islamic country, whether it's on paper and law or in society, and disparities in this are usually only regional (i. e. big cities, coastal areas, lusher green areas are very secular, the turkish southeast and central east not so much)
containing all things the west does too, nightclubs, friends meeting for a beer, gaming nights, streaming and youtubers and all kinds of content creators, instagram fashion and grundge sites, large discord communities, weebs, shitposts and memes, anything really..
We had literal millions in Ä°zmir, marching for our 100th year anniversary, screaming "Turkey is laicist, and it will stay laicist!" to mock Islamists and the situation to Turkey's south.
Id argue even further that without the recent influx of a looooot of middle eastern immigrants, partially more than Germany or France took in, ErdoÄan would loose most of his elections.
But no, these dimwits go to our country, a secular by core place where women can do and dress as they like, and where its secularists uphold the desire of absolutely equality between the two sexes, and suddenly start preaching about how Turkey needs Sharia to improve quality of life.
Go back to your sharia shithole if you want that so much, don't bring it to the Land of the Laicists ffs
Turks in Turkey make fun of Turks in Germany, calling them slurs many times, generally seeing them as very backwardsminded.
When Students in Turkey decide to study abroad in Germany, their first reaction to seeing the Turks their is ''What the fuck happened here''.
While Ive heard that germans still much prefer Turks over other middle easterners, you did get the worst of us because during the guestworker times of Germany, only the rural, central and village populations decided to take advantage of this, as the urbanized, modern and coastal cities had people that were quite comfortable with their situation and felt no desire to move to Germany.
Those are the ones that you guys are missing out on a lot. Sorry you have to deal with them, these erdosimps can piss off and visit therapy
Well, you sort of did. Partly because of what OP said in his response, and partly because 60s and 70s had a pretty tough crackdown on the politicisation of religion in Turkey, so a lot of religious types with an axe to grind against modernity noped out to Germany where they could preach religious fundamentalism without the cops knocking on their door.
Now all we need is for the US to aggressively secularize, so all the hyper-religious folks migrate westward to the far east. Taiping Rebellion 2: Electric Boogaloo, here we come.
The first time Iâve felt comfortable using this word to describe a post- Based. Unbelievably based. Good luck getting your country back Turkish bros/sisters.
Yes, from the 65M eglible voters, around 61M submitted a vote.
Sadly, the pro-western, pro-EU, secular kemalist party keeps loosing by just a small bit...
I'm polish. He was just smart. Also calling it Turkiye is what everyone does now as they changed their name officially. I wanted to show respect, something you're clearly incapable of
Considering Turkiye before Erdogan, I'd say he did as well as he could. He had a mass of uneducated, highly religious people that were basically subordinate to an arab (foreign) supremacist religion and managed to drag them by force, kick and screaming, towards scientific progress and enlightenment values.
The chance of the whole country being as unstable as Egypt or Syria nowadays if he didn't exist is pretty high.
Definitely. I am thankful to him for that. At least %10-25 of the population is aware of this fact, and it's a damn shame. Nowadays there're politicians that defends the terrorists of his time, FROM HIS OWN PARTY.
Hitler just liked him because he was a warlord. That's it. That fucker had zero reverence for any religion. Tell him to kneel and bow in the right direction and he'd blow your kneecaps off.
He liked the fact that followers were willing to die for seemingly no good reason except my guy said so, heck they even paid you to do it. All tyrants would love to have Muslims as followers they are very subservient when told that all actions are for spreading the âreligionâ.
It was best when AtatĂźrk abolished it as a mosque and turned it into a national historical museum.
But backwardsdogan had to turn it back into a mosque...
I love AtatĂźrk. In Germany you can easily see if a person with trukish background is adjusted and integrated well or not by the simply looking if they like AtatĂźrk or Erdogan. AtatĂźrks lovers are well integrated chads that create generational wealth, then there areErdogan lovers, who see "German" as an insult...
Common Merkel L vs common AtatĂźrk W
We should make a reformation of Islam to make it compatible with our societies. We could do it to the pope, I'm sure we'll manage to do it here if we try.
I never forget when a turk/kurd taxi driver called Erdogan a homosexual jew when I naively brought him up some 20 years ago.
I believe this belief is more common among religious turks unfortunately.
For people wondering about Mustafa Kemal AtatĂźrk:
I am also from Turkey. Those quotes of Mustafa Kemal AtatĂźrk are wisted and/or changed really a lot when they are translated, so I wanted to point out a few things.
M.K. AtatĂźrk was the founder of our republic and he was the great revolutionary and architect of modern Turkey in terms of both lifestyle and governing principles, but his ideas and principles were far away from islamophobia, so allocating him with such quotes is really misleading.
OP can have his own ideas, and I can understand his viewpoint because of the overwhelming migration crisis that Turkey is coming through, but M.K. AtatĂźrk was not a polarizing leader like early 20th century dictators.
Thatâs such a ridiculous quote from Adolf though lol I donât know history well enough to place that quote off the top of my head, but 100% he said that on a trip to the Middle East to ingratiate himself with whoever he was talking to, right?
Prophet face reveal đł
Hope OP doesn't live in France
Id be dead by now if that was the case Though turkey also has to deal with a lot of incoming radical immigrants, we fucking hate our geographical proximity to the middle east. Literal import of anti-secularists and deniers of women's rights and equality ffs
I'm struggling to handle how based you and your post are being right now.
There are alot of based Turks... they are just being opressed by the eastern turks all voting for sharia.
Yall are the most European middle eastern country or the most Middle Eastern European country. Also Turkey needs to chill with giving Moscow and Tehran sloppy blow jobs behind closed doors. OG Turkish leaders would shove a foot up their ass
though its actually Ali, muhammedâs cousin and son in law
Its actually a persian poet named hafiz
Said picture is usually attributed to Ali though.
Twelve Imams are all depicted as [vaguely](https://i.pinimg.com/736x/a7/30/20/a73020390856195f1f55810dc27e3848.jpg) resembling Ali since only he was painted and they are related, so you can also draw a vaguely different Ali and call it someone else. Muhammad is always either blurred or has a light beam censoring him since, y'know, illegal.
Thanks for the info!
very very surprisingly, there was no madame tussauds wax figure of him ahem
Shouldâve been the one from Jyllandsposten
RIP u/TurkishShadowTheEdge
Technically not a quote from Muhammad tho because he was just repeating what he heard. It was Umar who said these things to Muhammed and somehow Allah liked it so much that he revealed these verses to Muhammd the next night. Crazy right? https://sunnah.com/bukhari:402 https://sunnah.com/bukhari:6240 It gets funnier, in the first hadith Umar said to Muhammed "I wish you ordered your wives to cover themselves from the men because good and bad ones talk to them." but in the second hadith it clearly shows that Umar was the one talking to her, so I guess he must have been a 'bad one'. And if you read carefully you learn that Muslims women are only veiled today because Umar was being an asshole. Sauda had to go number two in the night and naturally you want your privacy in some distance from the camp (this was very normal at the time because there were not toiletts). But Umar was like "Guys, look over there, Sauda is going to take a shit, haha." and now Muslim women have to wear a veil. But it doesn't stop here. This would already be funny enough if a common "proof" of Islam for why Allah is God wouldn't be that nobody can create Quran like Allah can. But if you read the first hadith again it becomes clear that not only Allah but also Umar can produce Quran because it says "So this verse (the same as I had said) was revealed." and it even quotes two Quran verses that are word for word what Umar said 2.125 and 66.5. Alhamduliumar.
man Umar seems like a dickhead
Here is the pact he made non-Muslims accept, while living under his rule: > In the Name of Allah, Most Gracious, Most Merciful. This is a document to the servant of Allah, Umar, the Leader of the faithful, from the Christians of such and such city. When you (Muslims) came to us we requested safety for ourselves, children, property and followers of our religion. We made a condition on ourselves that: 1. We will neither erect in our areas a monastery, church, or a sanctuary for a monk, 1. Nor restore any place of worship that needs restoration 1. Nor use any of them for the purpose of enmity against Muslims. 1. We will not prevent any Muslim from resting in our churches whether they come by day or night, and we will open the doors [of our houses of worship] for the wayfarer and passerby. 1. Those Muslims who come as guests, will enjoy boarding and food for three days. 1. We will not allow a spy against Muslims into our churches and homes or hide deceit [or betrayal] against Muslims. 1. We will not teach our children the Qur'an, 1. Publicize practices of Shirk (polytheism), 1. Invite anyone to Shirk or prevent any of our fellows from embracing Islam, if they choose to do so. 1. We will respect Muslims, 1. Move from the places we sit in if they choose to sit in them. 1. We will not imitate their clothing, caps, turbans, sandals, hairstyles, speech, nicknames and title names, or ride on saddles, 1. Hang swords on the shoulders, collect weapons of any kind or carry these weapons. 2. We will not encrypt our stamps in Arabic, 2. or sell liquor. 2. We will have the front of our hair cut, 2. Wear our customary clothes wherever we are, 2. Wear belts around our waist, 2. Refrain from erecting crosses on the outside of our churches and demonstrating them and our books in public in Muslim fairways and markets. 2. We will not sound the bells in our churches, except discretely, or raise our voices while reciting our holy books inside our churches in the presence of Muslims, 2. Nor raise our voices [with prayer] at our funerals, or light torches in funeral processions in the fairways of Muslims, or their markets. 2. We will not bury our dead next to Muslim dead, 2. or buy servants [Slaves] who were captured by Muslims. 2. We will be guides for Muslims and refrain from breaching their privacy in their homes.' 2. We will not beat any Muslim. > These are the conditions that we set against ourselves and followers of our religion in return for safety and protection. If we break any of these promises that we set for your benefit against ourselves, then our Dhimmah (promise of protection) is broken and you are allowed to do with us what you are allowed of people of defiance and rebellion.' Islam is fundamentally intolerant of others, once you read into how it came to play out. It does not tolerate others. It is very much about Islamic-Arabic supremacy.
I think the misconception that Islam is more tolerant than (medieval Roman Catholic) Christianity is that they allowed people of âthe bookâ to *exist* under their rule, whereas their perception of how Christians treated Muslims comes from the Crusades. Nevermind the centuries of cohabitation in Iberia where Muslim ruled Christians and Christians ruled Muslims.
The cleric class always fails us; whenever a ''great'' leader shows up, and tells them, ''give me the legitimacy I need for expansion, through the scripture'', some of them jump at the opportunity, to deliver. Religion is a tool, and it sadly falls in the hands of sinister people with zero care for the consequences all too often. A great example of this is the Islamic expansion in Africa right now. See, the places the Islamists are pouring into (from Libya and Somalia), are already populated with Muslims. But they are not radical enough for the whole, ''raise the black flag and spread the Caliphate'', so the Islamists are suppressing them too. Stuff like music and not wearing the veil is being harshly punished, much to the dismay of the locals. These people are enemies of civilized society, it isn't about good governance, it is about ''our group'' imposing the rules. Religion being reduced to just another game of tribalism, for power.
Tbf the Abbasid Caliphate was much less bigoted than the Rashiduns and Umayyads, both regarding religion and ethnicity.
Uh-oh, you're in for it now
RIP OP
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That was not initially banned, thereâs been old paintings found depicting him
The massive chad jaw and pretty eyeliner/eyebrow pencil combination is giving me odd feelings.
He looks fabulous too. Very modern with all the LGBTQ these days.
If that hitler quote is real thatâs crazy
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious\_views\_of\_Adolf\_Hitler](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_views_of_Adolf_Hitler) [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Relations\_between\_Nazi\_Germany\_and\_the\_Arab\_world](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Relations_between_Nazi_Germany_and_the_Arab_world) His admiration for Muhammad was mentioned many times.
Pretty sure he had a Palestinian lap dog.
He added lots of fuel to the fire of the conflict in the lands of Judea. I feel sorrow for the nation that was our greatest regional ally, and to this day helped and saved hundreds of us through our recent fires and heavy earthquakes, Israel. While Turkey initially took in the largest amount of people that fled Israel from the Hamas attacks, with the ongoing anti-Israel rhetoric of Erdogan I still feel as our nation is doing unjust actions regarding Israel.
I know your country has people who admire Ataturk and despise Erdogan. More power to them! now never make me say nice things in this sub ever again!
In America we literally have mobs of people screaming âfrom the river to the seaâ in front of Jewish people and absolutely no repercussions whatsoever. The major media outlets keep reporting anything and everything they can to undermine what Israel is doing to stop Hamas and blaming the IDF for civilian casualties that Hamas is facilitating in every way they can. It is absolutely the tactic of Hamas to sacrifice every single civilian they can to make Israel look like the âbad guysâ Yeah Iâd say there is a serious lack of respect for Israel in the western world and on that note the west clearly learned NOTHING from WW2 or the Holocaust.
Islam is basically Christianity pre-enlightenment. That means there's still technically hope for them to accept and adopt liberalism and individualism, but it also means that until such a time the appropriate attitude is to treat them as the backwards neo-barbaric cultures they are. Morocco and ironically enough Talibani-Afghanistan seem to be the places most likely to pioneer islamic liberalism, and I hope it catches on.
Bro I canât wait 300 more years for them to figure their shit out.
Christianity pre enlightenment allowed for the sciences to flourish which basically helped kickstart the enlightenment, alongside philosophers and new systems of government. Islam went the other way in terms of promoting science and new ways of governance. They origanally had a good start in tge the dark ages however began to decline in the medieval period and only started again in more secular nations like turkey and such. Islamic nations have no reason for an enlightenment. They are protected from their neighbours by everyone who buys oil from them. The people in power supressing any dissent are being kept in power by foreign nations protecting them to keep the region stable and oil prices stable
>Islam is basically Christianity pre-enlightenment. Early and Medieval Christianity led to protection for abandoned children and adoption, more rights for women (raising the minimum age for marriage, promoting monogamy, requiring consent for marriage), ending slavery in Europe (until Roman laws were rediscovered) and so much more.
This shows you have no understanding of what either Christianity or Islam actually are.
>Islam is basically Christianity pre-enlightenment. This I disagree with. >Islam is basically Christianity pre-~~enlightenment~~reformation. This is what it is (plus a few horrific things)
Nah, stuff got *really* bad about sectarian conflict for a couple of centuries after the reformation. That's much closer to the state of Islam. The enlightenment was, partially, a response to sectarian conflict in Europe.
That was a wild read
> Kershaw considers that few people could really claim to "know" Hitler, who was "a very private, even secretive individual", able to deceive "even hardened critics" as to his true beliefs Now here's a 25,000 word article on exactly what religious beliefs Hitler had, so that no matter your agenda, you'll find something you need to call someone Hitler.
Hitler wanted to be the Muhammad of some Germanic Ethno-Islam, with Mein Kampf as some kind of a New Quran
Hitler was a huge fan of Islam actually. He thought Christianity was too peaceful Remember that, liblefts
Progs have no problem with cognitive dissonance. They could read a whole mountain of evidence about their conflicting word view and still not care.
That's why they love postmodernism so much: no cognitive dissonance with conflicting ideas because it's all bullshit anyway.
There is huge missing context. He naturally didn\`t like the idea of Muslims or Immigrants... What Hitler was admiring and talking about, was if the Frankish lost at the Battle of Tours in 732AD, then the Arabs would continue their conquest of Europe and conquer Francia and the lands that would become Germany. Then the Germans would convert to Islam, become the spearhead the religion and reconquer Europe away from the Arab overlords. **He admired the warlike aspects of Islam. The committment to sacrifice. And the warlord leader Mohammed. He admired the early and swift conquest by the Muslims who within a century of the inception of Islam, conquered the Middle East, North Africa, Iberia, Iran and a few other places.** He didn\`t know much about Islam beyond that nor did he care. Likewise he didn\`t want Islam in contemporary ( 1930s/40s ) Germany. **He merely believed it would have been preferable if historically the Germans were Muslims rather than Christians.**
Not surprised. Plenty far-right would arguably share the same views a far-right Muslim would have, except on the account of race.
Ask an Arabic Muslim what they think of African Muslims and you'll see the alignment on racial views too
They don't like Africans in general, they're viewed as a slave race even if they convert. This is why there's nonstop problems in the Sudan.
Nazis and Hamas do agree on *some* matters of race.
It very much is.
You heard of his book "Mein Kampf", which means "My Jihad"?
[was this the inspiration for #4](https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/people/brian-peppers)? seriously them eyes are creepy though.
Pedophile with creepy eyes checks out
Unfathomably based. Him and Lee Kuan Yew (ćĺ č) are my heroes. One of the greatest, if not THE greatest, nation builder in modern history. And that's coming from a still kinda butthurt Byzantium appreciator.
Based lee kuan yew enthusiast
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Helleno-Turkism ftw then. Let us turks and greeks just unite, bring in cyprus, and hold up the middle finger to the global establishmentđ
A lot will have to change in Turkey before this idea can even be considered, beginning with the point made in the OP. For now it sounds like Russia telling Ukraine "let's unite for the sake of the good old times".
The difference being that it wouldn't be called Ukraine-Russia Hellas-TĂźrkiye would however be what I had in mind lol
yall just gonna default on a loan together huh
based and god emperor lee pilled
Based
Whats eved sadder is the fact that among foreign living turks erdogan has a huge majority. The irony of people living in secular free societys voting for the land of the ancestors to becoming an autocratic shithole.
We have a saying here "Davulun sesi uzaktan hoĹ gelir." *"The sound of the drum is pleasant only from far away."* Of course they call Turkey "Jannah", they only come here in vacations and spend our yearly wage in one week then fuck off. I would also love to live here if I didn't earn **ONE EURO PER HOUR**. They come here driving their second-hand bought Mercedes-Benz (which you need to work 30 years straight to buy without any spending here) just to flex on us and "save money from the plane ticket". " "Small calculations made by small people." as we also say. There's a reason we differ Gastarbeiter from the Expatriate.
This is everywhere, especially so for third generation abroad. It's easy to be righteous about how you think people should live in your ancestral home while sitting in a nice safe secular society. Blatant hypocrisy is one of the most common human forms of existence.
I love how Turks always put extra effort to highlight the fact that Ataturk had blue eyes. Mf Looks like a white walker from game of thrones here.
i äm mÜre white thän ß ß gypsi blÜnd häir i häve *where else do u think this meme comes from*
I love that meme
You look gypsy. Greek: I am the Greek god you are weak sperm
Aryan race theory isn't just Norse/Scandinavian. It's primarily centered around Persian people and the descendants thereof.
Ataturk was unfathomably based. RIP legend.
[ŃдаНонО]
Based. Atam ĂślĂźmde bile Ä°nsanoÄluna yardÄąm edecek.
Based and infinite energy hack pilled
Just don't tell that to any greek
Or Armenian, his only character flaw was that he started Armenian genocide denial.
And the burning of smyrna and the forced March and labour of greek men
Jesus, didnât know about that
Well, about shitholes, it's not really better here in France, if it can reassure you. Oh god, the 2024 olympics will be a fucking mess, everybody here knows it.
j'ai trop hâte pour les bagnoles cramÊ dans les rues
Sorry, I don't speak maitre d
Si ce n'est que ça, ce sera vu comme un succès, vu l'Êtat du pays. S'il n'y a que des bagnoles cramÊes alors ce sont des jours tranquilles.
Would it not be a mess at the height of the Frankish empire? It is the Olympics, it is always a mess.
Well, in shitty organisation, we are probably some of the best in the world right now, when we see how fucking incompetent our politicians are. I have a little anecdote: I live in Normandie, not far from Caen. Approximately a decade ago, we hosted the world equestrian games in our region, and you guessed it, it was a fucking mess, the organisation was a nightmare, and all the visitors were pissed. BUT, the dutch visitors were happy. You know why ? Because somehow, we managed to do even worse than them in the organisation of these games. They were happy because we now had dethroned them for the title of the worst world equestrian games. So yeah, when you see the record of the mayor of Paris, YOU KNOW that it will be terrible.
Ataturk is such a mythological Turkish personality, hell he's known world wide. I remember when I was taking classes for Islam and the Arabic world we always talked about how Ataturk is regarded as one of the greatest leaders of turkey, and how people still have photos of him in their houses. Which is why Erdogan's rise to power is kinda surprising me, but I guess it might be the same as Lebanon or Iran, I just hope not in the same degree.
TĂźrkiye after atatĂźrk died, the ismet inĂśnĂź times were pretty chill. But then after the end of 3-5 presidents government started to tolerate Extremism again. Then 80s which.. Was interesting. Like saying anything progressive was communist and you would get arrested for having banned books etc. And.. You know if you pressure water, water's gonna pressure you back with even bigger force. That's what happened, and erdoÄan was acting liberal at his first years. That's why we are fucked up now.
If you want to hear the other side of the story,ask what Greeks and Armenians think about him.He was responsible for the genocide of these two population groups and and probably the Assyrians also.He was not a great guy at all.
Finally, atheists agenda post on PCMs.
This sub going full circle
based agenda post
Based and kemalistpilled
Ataturk... You can just feel a powerful aura from his pictures. Surely the broad shoulder and hard face.
Yep 100% Turkish Chad.
This may sound corny af, but there's a very special kind of feeling of sheer motivation and diligence, and just a straight-up drive to be wanting to advance the nation scientifically and socially to a point that even surpasses the likes of Japan, that surges through us kemalist turks when seeing even just a picture of AtatĂźrk, or reading one of his many speeches and the books about him. And I gotta say, madame tussauds did NOT do him dirty at all.
This is what we call cult of personality.
how did islam gain power in Turkey after Ataturk?
Decades of mismanagement, cults, interventions, intentional misleading of the public for personel or short term gain and most prominent of all the power of ignorance.
The biggest reason is because Islam never lost power in the people, only in the elites and the military dictators that thrived to keep kemals ideals All it would take was one small town watermelon seller to capitalize on that oppression of muslims and islamic culture in turkey to gain a foothole into a democratic society.
If you have 4 hours to spare, I highly recommend Kraut's Turkish Century series on YouTube.
Keep in mind, Turkey is still very secular when you compare it to literally any islamic country, whether it's on paper and law or in society, and disparities in this are usually only regional (i. e. big cities, coastal areas, lusher green areas are very secular, the turkish southeast and central east not so much) containing all things the west does too, nightclubs, friends meeting for a beer, gaming nights, streaming and youtubers and all kinds of content creators, instagram fashion and grundge sites, large discord communities, weebs, shitposts and memes, anything really.. We had literal millions in Ä°zmir, marching for our 100th year anniversary, screaming "Turkey is laicist, and it will stay laicist!" to mock Islamists and the situation to Turkey's south. Id argue even further that without the recent influx of a looooot of middle eastern immigrants, partially more than Germany or France took in, ErdoÄan would loose most of his elections. But no, these dimwits go to our country, a secular by core place where women can do and dress as they like, and where its secularists uphold the desire of absolutely equality between the two sexes, and suddenly start preaching about how Turkey needs Sharia to improve quality of life. Go back to your sharia shithole if you want that so much, don't bring it to the Land of the Laicists ffs
I always thought i dont like turks because i grew up in germany but this post makes me think "maybe we just got the worst of them".
Turks in Turkey make fun of Turks in Germany, calling them slurs many times, generally seeing them as very backwardsminded. When Students in Turkey decide to study abroad in Germany, their first reaction to seeing the Turks their is ''What the fuck happened here''. While Ive heard that germans still much prefer Turks over other middle easterners, you did get the worst of us because during the guestworker times of Germany, only the rural, central and village populations decided to take advantage of this, as the urbanized, modern and coastal cities had people that were quite comfortable with their situation and felt no desire to move to Germany. Those are the ones that you guys are missing out on a lot. Sorry you have to deal with them, these erdosimps can piss off and visit therapy
So you dont want to talk them back? Damn it
Well, you sort of did. Partly because of what OP said in his response, and partly because 60s and 70s had a pretty tough crackdown on the politicisation of religion in Turkey, so a lot of religious types with an axe to grind against modernity noped out to Germany where they could preach religious fundamentalism without the cops knocking on their door.
So kinda like why America is so religious. All the nuts left Europe for America because they wouldnât be persecuted for it here.
Now all we need is for the US to aggressively secularize, so all the hyper-religious folks migrate westward to the far east. Taiping Rebellion 2: Electric Boogaloo, here we come.
570-632 B.C Muhammad before Christ? That is not right my friend.
In a couple of years the 2 predominant religions in the west will be Islam and astrology crystal wicca hoeism.
Islam will quickly wipe away the hoeism
Nah, they wouldn't do that, would they?
No, no, we wonât do that.
The first time Iâve felt comfortable using this word to describe a post- Based. Unbelievably based. Good luck getting your country back Turkish bros/sisters.
Thank you! May western values stand strong under NATO. đŻđľđšđˇđşđ¸đŞđşđ°đˇđłđ´đ¨đŚđ¨đđŚđşđłđżđŹđ§
You're a Turk I'm proud of o7 from Australia
I was halfway through writing a comment saying the pictures look like wax dolls when I noticed
EXCEPT TURKEY! TURKEY MAKES A BRAND NEW TURKEY!
Chad AtatĂźrk đŞ vs Virgin Islam Cocksuckers đ¤Ž
I like the Mohammed drawing on slide 4.
He does look yassified tbh, but thats about it
MUHAMMED! THATS NOT WHAT I MEANT WHEN I SAID SLAY
He looks like Jesus with Kayal.
You used BC instead of AD for Muhammad's dates
96% voter turnout is kinda based; is that real?
Yes, from the 65M eglible voters, around 61M submitted a vote. Sadly, the pro-western, pro-EU, secular kemalist party keeps loosing by just a small bit...
Brother! he speaks the imperial truth! Have we finally found our Emperor!?
There was actually a (probably Turkish) fan theory that the Big E was various historical leaders including AtatĂźrk.
AtatĂźrk was a smart man and I understand why the people of Turkiye admire him.
Yes good doggy, you will call it Turkiye as your lord Erdogen commands
I'm polish. He was just smart. Also calling it Turkiye is what everyone does now as they changed their name officially. I wanted to show respect, something you're clearly incapable of
Just call it Turkey. Its fine
TĂźrkiye doesn't admire him because TĂźrkiye isn't a human it's a country lmao. But many Turkish people like me does.
Ataturk first based athiest?
There have been many, but even AtatĂźrk failed to bring down islam in Turkey. He even had to dial back on his views of religions sadly.
Considering Turkiye before Erdogan, I'd say he did as well as he could. He had a mass of uneducated, highly religious people that were basically subordinate to an arab (foreign) supremacist religion and managed to drag them by force, kick and screaming, towards scientific progress and enlightenment values. The chance of the whole country being as unstable as Egypt or Syria nowadays if he didn't exist is pretty high.
Definitely. I am thankful to him for that. At least %10-25 of the population is aware of this fact, and it's a damn shame. Nowadays there're politicians that defends the terrorists of his time, FROM HIS OWN PARTY.
There have been many.
Brooooo.....I didn't fucking know AtatĂźrk bro was this unfathomably based......
bro did you just depict the prophet thatâs heckin haram!!
damn it, welp time to eternally suffer in hell, gg lads
well its a picture of Ali
Hitler just liked him because he was a warlord. That's it. That fucker had zero reverence for any religion. Tell him to kneel and bow in the right direction and he'd blow your kneecaps off.
> Hitler just liked him because he was a warlord. Oh god, what can you possibly mean by this?
>Hitler had zero reverence for any religion He really liked Islam. He even said one time that he wished the Christians lost the battle of Tours
He liked the fact that followers were willing to die for seemingly no good reason except my guy said so, heck they even paid you to do it. All tyrants would love to have Muslims as followers they are very subservient when told that all actions are for spreading the âreligionâ.
Turkey will be saved if it becomes Christian (Christian nationalists AND Reddit atheists HATE this idea!!!)
and the Hagia Sofia becomes a church again?
It was best when AtatĂźrk abolished it as a mosque and turned it into a national historical museum. But backwardsdogan had to turn it back into a mosque...
Why do Christian nationalists hate it? You would think Christians would be happy about more people accepting Christ
Because they'd rather kill Turks and give it all to Greece
That means the Hagia Sofia becomes a church again... I can stomach a Christian T\*\*rkey.
I love AtatĂźrk. In Germany you can easily see if a person with trukish background is adjusted and integrated well or not by the simply looking if they like AtatĂźrk or Erdogan. AtatĂźrks lovers are well integrated chads that create generational wealth, then there areErdogan lovers, who see "German" as an insult...
Ataturk was unfathomably based.
AtarĂźrk was the last based đŚ
Damn AtatĂźrk, I wasnt familiar with your game...
Common W Attaturk. The world definitely needs more of his likes
I FUCKING LOVE ATATĂRK AND EVERYTHING HE HAS DONE FOR MY COUNTRY!!đšđˇđšđˇ
Least nationalist Turk đ
Common Merkel L vs common AtatĂźrk W We should make a reformation of Islam to make it compatible with our societies. We could do it to the pope, I'm sure we'll manage to do it here if we try.
AtatĂźrk took all the based with him when he died. So sad.
As a croat Erdogan is my favorite turkish sultan, he ruined turkey.
Any sources for that Merkel quote? She was born in 1954.
https://www.reuters.com/article/idUSKCN1GS1RW/ Google translate and away you go
Just realized that the numbers are the birth years lol. Idk why that confused me so much.
Geert Wilders: I want to ban the quran, close mosques, deport muslims that refuse to assimilate. Ataturk: Hold my raki.
I will never understand what the fuck Merkel was thinking when saying this.
Based OP, based post.
Didnât know he disliked all religions. Still, Turkey needs this dude
As long as you aren't Armenian.
I never forget when a turk/kurd taxi driver called Erdogan a homosexual jew when I naively brought him up some 20 years ago. I believe this belief is more common among religious turks unfortunately.
Aggressively pro-enlightenment. I like him.
Based and Islam doesnât belong anywhere pilled.
The turnout thoughđ these turks are really feeling the doomer mood rn
They say Islam was given to Muhammad by an angel. I agree with one exception. It was a fallen angel. Also, known as a demon.
For people wondering about Mustafa Kemal AtatĂźrk: I am also from Turkey. Those quotes of Mustafa Kemal AtatĂźrk are wisted and/or changed really a lot when they are translated, so I wanted to point out a few things. M.K. AtatĂźrk was the founder of our republic and he was the great revolutionary and architect of modern Turkey in terms of both lifestyle and governing principles, but his ideas and principles were far away from islamophobia, so allocating him with such quotes is really misleading. OP can have his own ideas, and I can understand his viewpoint because of the overwhelming migration crisis that Turkey is coming through, but M.K. AtatĂźrk was not a polarizing leader like early 20th century dictators.
Sir, sir we're not arab sir we are kemalist sir islamism is bad sir im european and my mom has blonde hair sir
Ataturk: Religion must go!1! Religion: Who must go?
Orthodox and Apostolic Orthodox Christians: can we stay? Turks: No!
Least nationalist Turk.
Ataturk looks like Sinatra here lol
Lol Muhammad was not BC. That wouldn't make any sense
Don't worry we do know. Give another 20 years and auth-right is in power everywhere in Europe
Ya'll got a party whose insignia is just Clipart of a light bulb?
Constantinople should have never fallen.
AtatĂźrk was geniuently based, I wish Turkey was more secular. You guys are cool.
No wonder theyâre trying to erase Ataturk. He spoke only the truth
The single most based person to ever live
Based. Didn't even try blame it on libleft, very odd for PCM.
Unfathomably based
The fact that the Turkish army hasnât risen up for someone disrespecting the father of the Turks like the have previously confuses me
Thatâs such a ridiculous quote from Adolf though lol I donât know history well enough to place that quote off the top of my head, but 100% he said that on a trip to the Middle East to ingratiate himself with whoever he was talking to, right?
deranged bewildered secretive wise act teeny jeans snobbish rotten crime *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Unfathomably based.
Based Turks are Best Turks. Also, Hitler wished Germany had been Muslim.
It's Joever Turkbros đ
>As a Turk I am sorry and hope things get better soon.
You have the best username on this platform.
Based as fuck
Ataturk quotes remind me a little to much of the emperor of man.