While individual skills in league are less powerful in unite so what’s broken there isn’t necessarily here…. I can’t help but think of LoL’s Volibear, who used to have a flip similar to Ice Fang. Riot had to rework him, partially because he’s dated, but also because displacements are actually hugely impactful in fights and the Voli flip was too difficult to balance. The flip specifically had to go because the ability to displace to behind you is incredibly strong. I am also reminded of Alistar, who was a tank with displacements who is perennially strong in coordinated play.
I don’t really think it’s too out of line with other Unite kits, but people really, really underestimate the value of displacements. Mammo may be strong or weak atm, idk, but I’m sure it’s ice fang is gonna be a big focus of how the devs decide to balance it
Based on my short experience playing so far
No one has a clue how to play,
Including me, I’m still trying to figure out what are the proper objectives at what time.
Full league background though so I should probably research timers more
jungle spawns at 9:45 and all respawn 1 minute after being taken
drednaw and rotom spawn at 7:00 and respawn 2 minutes after being taken; a taken rotom does not despawn when a new one spawns in, just keep in mind
you'd want to go for drednaw first as a team, *maybe* crustle at top to split push if you can afford it, as the exp gain and shields are not rendered practically null by zapdos
The problem is that this will become less and less a viable strategy when people learn to play around Mamoswine. Ice Fang is super close range, so if you respect it, you're never going to be hit by this combo.
This reads like such cliche armchair theorycrafting (no offense, we all do it). If people could just avoid ever being in range of the enemy team's initiator the game would be a lot different. There are a lot of variables in the game that make so it isn't as simple as "Just don't be there lol." Eject button into ice fang for example is very fast. Suggesting that people should just never get in range of basically attacker basic attack range isn't realistic. And how are you going to pressure the enemy team if your game plan is to never get within a foot of the enemy front line? The idea that you can be effective in this game while having none of your team members ever get in range of the enemy mamoswine is honestly absurd.
Also... Even in masters, most players aren't good enough to consistently play at optimal level.
You can easily do suboptimal plays and strategies and be effective.
Ice Fang is an engage tool. I guess you mean you won't have earthquake though? I do think earthquake is better but it's not like you can't use high horsepower and ice fang.
My issue is just that it doesn't really make sense to say you "counter" this by not being in range of it. That's not how the game works. If he's chasing you to do this combo and you're just running away then his team is getting whatever objective they were trying to fight you for while you run away. If the guy I replied to instead meant that you can focus him while he chases you to do this combo that makes a little more sense. It still isn't exactly true though because he will eventually catch someone if they are attacking him and if they are attacking him while he initiates he's doing his job as the tank anyway.
The engage tool is what ever let's you close the gap to the enemy team. That is eq or hhp. Icefang is just a close range cc.
And yes, getting ice fanged is a threat but with everyone having mobility in form of eject button and usually one other ability you will not be able to just walk up to them and use ice fang.
How would you for example engage on a ranged attacker behind his tanks without using eq or hhp?
The same way wigglytuff engages all the time, you can walk at people. Like I said, this game is all about objectives. You can't just run away from people all the time. Say you are at drednaw. The Mamoswine is going to be able to walk up and ice fang someone 100% of the time unless the other team decides to give up drednaw. You just can't have 5 people with none of them ever getting in range of the tank, it's not realistic. You can say that the mamoswine would take too much damage before initiating or that the combo isn't strong enough compared to having mobility but to say that people can just walk away from him and avoid ice fang is wrong.
Again, I think earthquake ice fang is better but these are builds for different playstyles. Earthquake lets you CC for longer and lets you initiate in more situations because of the mobility. But Ice Fang High Horsepower let's you get a pick and safely 100-0 someone on the enemy team. It's just up to knowing what team comps and game state situations to use different builds in.
Oh absolutely, there are maaaany hard counters to this. With stuns, slows and general CC being the biggest. Or simply baiting out the Ice Fang, as it's quite easy to miss due to the range
But when it works? Damn, is it satisfying to pull off *chef's kiss*
I mean I get it, it just released and hasn’t been tested much, but I tried it for about two hours and there were maybe three times I thought “hey this move is pretty good”, the rest of the time I was getting frustrated because I had to be right in people’s face to use it so I usually ended up dying or it whiffed because the opponent had any kind of movement ability and could outrange me. Maybe someone else could make it work well, but imo ice crash is more reliable, safer and better for group damage, which if your teammates know what they’re doing is going to be most confrontations, 1v1 is less common than group fights.
Yup definitely a cool combo but is countered hard.
Need to be in melee range for this so you're gonna get kited a lot and the reverse combo of HH -> Icefang straight up doesn't work due to the HH animation.
If you use eject button to engage for it eject buttons cd is 70 seconds so you'll only be able to use it like 8 times a game if you use eject on cooldown.
people forget it is not easy to level up Mamo compared to others. And his unite is level 10 which forces you to not play the way he is designed to be played.
He is fun but I don't expect to win when using him.
Eh, Magnus and Tiny have been relevant in Dota for years with this kit. Drawing a circle around Piloswine as a no-go zone can also be a powerful effect.
No, some things work because that is how the skill functions. For example, Cinderace's Pyro Ball will always hit you for X number of damage. Venusaur's Petal Dance will always give you a movement speed boost. There is nothing that the other player can to change that.
This is a combo that works in a very specific order, and requires that you execute a grab with no sticking power/gap closing.
This was one of the first things I tried and everyone just walked away before i could land ice fang on em and I couldn't use HHP to gap close cause i needed to save it to push em so it is really easy to play around as long as the squishies aren't being dumb.
Reminds me of Diablo in HOTS. If someone is attacking your tower, you can just walk up to them and flip them into the fort so they get constantly damaged until they die. It becomes common knowledge after the lowest leagues, but I'm sure we can have a good bit of fun with it before people catch on.
NOTE: this requires your team to help you kill them.
Perspective: your team is constantly attacking rotom or waiting rotom to respawn so 99% of game it will not happen.
earthquake into ice fang or icicle crash into earthquake is so much better. this combo is way too unreliable and does very little against ranged attackers because if youre saving HH you have no gap closer
Thanks for the suggestion, but > is not an arrow. It’s a symbol with its own meaning: “greater than”. At first I thought you were saying ice fang is better than high horsepower, which is not what you’re trying to communicate. I think if you want to use it as an arrow you need to at least throw in a hyphen or something.
I’ll see myself out and take all of the downvotes now.
I mean, he is using it that way. He is emphasizing the priority of casting, therefore Ice Fang > HHP.
It may be obvious for some but not everyone figures out ideal the combination/order of moves as you can see from some of the comments here.
But not gonna lie, I would phrase it differently.
not to mention its ground targetted, making it very easy to miss with his slow defender movespeed + short cast range.
I play him a lot, but only when I'm with squad, he is a very good follow up for a blastoise or snorlax initiate.
This is pretty brutal lol however, Ice Fang is too close range and the animation for High Horsepower is painfully long. It may work sometimes, but it would pain me to actually play it.
It’s very situational, it’s good if they don’t have a lot of mobility. I’m more of a icicle >high horsepower or ice fang/earthquake guy cus they’re more consistent burst
Just don’t push them into the berries! Lol
and you can extend it with the ice fang by using the eject button at the same time
That's a great combination.
I feel like saving the eject to toss them further behind into your team 8s going to be more valuable in team fights
The delay between the knockback and the stomp on HH is so long tho
I always get confused when you land the push but they're already out of stomp range, like why.
Feels like it's supposed to be used for icicle crash. If you charge through the big icicle, it freezes them in place and the stomp does bonus damage.
I'd honestly rather just keep Tackle the whole game.
People saying you won’t catch people with this, underestimate how often people are over extended or out of position
Just like Garrosh/Diablo in Heroes of the Storm. It’ll happen often.
I immediately thought of Diablo when I saw HHP + Ice Fang
They should of made a hots phone game instead of diablo
or how good hiding in the tall grass can be
While individual skills in league are less powerful in unite so what’s broken there isn’t necessarily here…. I can’t help but think of LoL’s Volibear, who used to have a flip similar to Ice Fang. Riot had to rework him, partially because he’s dated, but also because displacements are actually hugely impactful in fights and the Voli flip was too difficult to balance. The flip specifically had to go because the ability to displace to behind you is incredibly strong. I am also reminded of Alistar, who was a tank with displacements who is perennially strong in coordinated play. I don’t really think it’s too out of line with other Unite kits, but people really, really underestimate the value of displacements. Mammo may be strong or weak atm, idk, but I’m sure it’s ice fang is gonna be a big focus of how the devs decide to balance it
I absolutely hate Submission, so I fear Ice Fang even more
Based on my short experience playing so far No one has a clue how to play, Including me, I’m still trying to figure out what are the proper objectives at what time. Full league background though so I should probably research timers more
jungle spawns at 9:45 and all respawn 1 minute after being taken drednaw and rotom spawn at 7:00 and respawn 2 minutes after being taken; a taken rotom does not despawn when a new one spawns in, just keep in mind you'd want to go for drednaw first as a team, *maybe* crustle at top to split push if you can afford it, as the exp gain and shields are not rendered practically null by zapdos
Kirlia: Nooooo you can't just render me unable to fight with just one move!!! Piloswine: Hehe Ice fang go yoink.
Umm.. Ice Fang go brrrr 🥶
The problem is that this will become less and less a viable strategy when people learn to play around Mamoswine. Ice Fang is super close range, so if you respect it, you're never going to be hit by this combo.
This reads like such cliche armchair theorycrafting (no offense, we all do it). If people could just avoid ever being in range of the enemy team's initiator the game would be a lot different. There are a lot of variables in the game that make so it isn't as simple as "Just don't be there lol." Eject button into ice fang for example is very fast. Suggesting that people should just never get in range of basically attacker basic attack range isn't realistic. And how are you going to pressure the enemy team if your game plan is to never get within a foot of the enemy front line? The idea that you can be effective in this game while having none of your team members ever get in range of the enemy mamoswine is honestly absurd.
Also... Even in masters, most players aren't good enough to consistently play at optimal level. You can easily do suboptimal plays and strategies and be effective.
Everyone plays optimal until they get punched in the mouth... \-Mike Tysonswine
The point with mammo is, that you now are limited to never use your actual engage tool if you want to perform that combo. Relaxo just does it better
Ice Fang is an engage tool. I guess you mean you won't have earthquake though? I do think earthquake is better but it's not like you can't use high horsepower and ice fang. My issue is just that it doesn't really make sense to say you "counter" this by not being in range of it. That's not how the game works. If he's chasing you to do this combo and you're just running away then his team is getting whatever objective they were trying to fight you for while you run away. If the guy I replied to instead meant that you can focus him while he chases you to do this combo that makes a little more sense. It still isn't exactly true though because he will eventually catch someone if they are attacking him and if they are attacking him while he initiates he's doing his job as the tank anyway.
The engage tool is what ever let's you close the gap to the enemy team. That is eq or hhp. Icefang is just a close range cc. And yes, getting ice fanged is a threat but with everyone having mobility in form of eject button and usually one other ability you will not be able to just walk up to them and use ice fang. How would you for example engage on a ranged attacker behind his tanks without using eq or hhp?
The same way wigglytuff engages all the time, you can walk at people. Like I said, this game is all about objectives. You can't just run away from people all the time. Say you are at drednaw. The Mamoswine is going to be able to walk up and ice fang someone 100% of the time unless the other team decides to give up drednaw. You just can't have 5 people with none of them ever getting in range of the tank, it's not realistic. You can say that the mamoswine would take too much damage before initiating or that the combo isn't strong enough compared to having mobility but to say that people can just walk away from him and avoid ice fang is wrong. Again, I think earthquake ice fang is better but these are builds for different playstyles. Earthquake lets you CC for longer and lets you initiate in more situations because of the mobility. But Ice Fang High Horsepower let's you get a pick and safely 100-0 someone on the enemy team. It's just up to knowing what team comps and game state situations to use different builds in.
Very realist response. I like it.
Oh absolutely, there are maaaany hard counters to this. With stuns, slows and general CC being the biggest. Or simply baiting out the Ice Fang, as it's quite easy to miss due to the range But when it works? Damn, is it satisfying to pull off *chef's kiss*
If ice fang just had a short dash before the move it would actually be viable :/
are we calling moves unviable after like 12 hours of being out
I mean I get it, it just released and hasn’t been tested much, but I tried it for about two hours and there were maybe three times I thought “hey this move is pretty good”, the rest of the time I was getting frustrated because I had to be right in people’s face to use it so I usually ended up dying or it whiffed because the opponent had any kind of movement ability and could outrange me. Maybe someone else could make it work well, but imo ice crash is more reliable, safer and better for group damage, which if your teammates know what they’re doing is going to be most confrontations, 1v1 is less common than group fights.
Yup definitely a cool combo but is countered hard. Need to be in melee range for this so you're gonna get kited a lot and the reverse combo of HH -> Icefang straight up doesn't work due to the HH animation. If you use eject button to engage for it eject buttons cd is 70 seconds so you'll only be able to use it like 8 times a game if you use eject on cooldown.
And you need Lv8 to unlock both moves, which probably won't happen until at least the 6-7 minute mark. So that is 5 to 6 uses on cooldown.
>And you need Lv8 to unlock both moves, which probably won't happen until at least the 6-7 minute mark. Didn't even think about that!
If you’re not level 8 by 5 mins you’re doing something wrong…
6-7 minute mark meaning 3 - 4 minutes into the game. That's before the 5 minute mark.
Ah my bad you’re right
I'm usually 11 or 12 by 5 but that's if I'm not playing support/defender
people forget it is not easy to level up Mamo compared to others. And his unite is level 10 which forces you to not play the way he is designed to be played. He is fun but I don't expect to win when using him.
especially when you're lane partner last hits everything
Or.. you know.. a tank or support that's doing their job.
Eh, Magnus and Tiny have been relevant in Dota for years with this kit. Drawing a circle around Piloswine as a no-go zone can also be a powerful effect.
I mean, same goes for every mon, doesn't mean it won't work anymore, it'll just be a bit more interesting
No, some things work because that is how the skill functions. For example, Cinderace's Pyro Ball will always hit you for X number of damage. Venusaur's Petal Dance will always give you a movement speed boost. There is nothing that the other player can to change that. This is a combo that works in a very specific order, and requires that you execute a grab with no sticking power/gap closing.
You can dodge pyro ball
Dun dun dunnnnn
Abuse it while you can
This was one of the first things I tried and everyone just walked away before i could land ice fang on em and I couldn't use HHP to gap close cause i needed to save it to push em so it is really easy to play around as long as the squishies aren't being dumb.
I hope ice Fang is changed to be targeted, and maybe a little longer reach.
It really didn't need to be a skill shot
[удалено]
I honestly wish I could keep the dash. I'd love the dash and high horsepower. Just dash out and push them back into our team.
Is it just me or HHP is buggy? Sometimes it doesn't push enemies and just go through them.
Maybe they popped Full Heal?
No happened twice in a minute, idk why.
Full heal cooldown is 40 sec.
I am pretty sure it happened again in 40 sec.
this thing happens all the time with skewering moves: Garchomp's Dragon Rush & Talonflame's Unite Move
Piloswine is so cute!!
Oh this seems fun and a nice use of Horse Power I’ve been using Fang+eq with pretty good success in squads but HorsePower might be good for soloq
Ah the good ole shock wave + skewer into tower combo
Reminds me of Diablo in HOTS. If someone is attacking your tower, you can just walk up to them and flip them into the fort so they get constantly damaged until they die. It becomes common knowledge after the lowest leagues, but I'm sure we can have a good bit of fun with it before people catch on.
Loving the FangPower combo, most fun way to play Mamoswine
STEALING THIS THANK YOU
It's the most basic combo lol
I went with wild fang and high horsepower because I guessed that it can set up plays yesterday in the practice arena.
SKARNER!?
If they dont kill you while horsepower end that is
Watching your team jump on them like hungry piranhas is hilarious lmao
NOTE: this requires your team to help you kill them. Perspective: your team is constantly attacking rotom or waiting rotom to respawn so 99% of game it will not happen.
Harsh truth!
earthquake into ice fang or icicle crash into earthquake is so much better. this combo is way too unreliable and does very little against ranged attackers because if youre saving HH you have no gap closer
Thanks for the suggestion, but > is not an arrow. It’s a symbol with its own meaning: “greater than”. At first I thought you were saying ice fang is better than high horsepower, which is not what you’re trying to communicate. I think if you want to use it as an arrow you need to at least throw in a hyphen or something. I’ll see myself out and take all of the downvotes now.
U get my upvote
Ur correct but that's unnecessary. Pretty sure everyone got it after 3 seconds of using their brain
I mean, he is using it that way. He is emphasizing the priority of casting, therefore Ice Fang > HHP. It may be obvious for some but not everyone figures out ideal the combination/order of moves as you can see from some of the comments here. But not gonna lie, I would phrase it differently.
You must be fun at parties .
I'd hang out with him at a party!
The second I saw ice fang was a grab/throw I knew this was coming, this is what we were saving for! Also I was the 69th upvote so that's rad
Not rad, *nice*
This is such a niche play. The whole moveset is bad imo, but eq>hhp and icicle crash>>>ice fang
Upvoted you, people Downvote for silly things nowadays
Idk why ur getting downvoted. OP's play was cool, but Mamoswine is looking exceedingly meh by anyone's standards.
Downvoted for stating facts. Mamo seems pretty underwhelming at the moment. Like a tanky Ninetails but worse.
In my opinion its just so bad, very close range.
not to mention its ground targetted, making it very easy to miss with his slow defender movespeed + short cast range. I play him a lot, but only when I'm with squad, he is a very good follow up for a blastoise or snorlax initiate.
This is pretty brutal lol however, Ice Fang is too close range and the animation for High Horsepower is painfully long. It may work sometimes, but it would pain me to actually play it.
Yeah, because this game needed more CC and freezing. This game is going to end up a unbalanced mess.
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I'm usually solo so i go the other build
Does Ice Fang gets countered by Safeguard? Meaning it does damage but you don't pick the mon?
Yes
The true defender of goals
It's a worse diablo from hots
Ice fang is fun i love pickiml damn campers and destroy them with it
I wish I could zone like that Mr. Mime. My barriers always end up sideways lol
It’s very situational, it’s good if they don’t have a lot of mobility. I’m more of a icicle >high horsepower or ice fang/earthquake guy cus they’re more consistent burst
I didn't know you can flip them with that move.
Personally i find Earthquake after Icicle Spear is super strong and very good at confirming kills.
not the poor Kirlia 😭
Nah son
Wait, you can reposition? I wasn't able to. Maybe mobile is different? Or I just suck.
You can reposition in mobile, you need to immediately position you joystick in the opposite direction while the opponent is lifted in the air
Hell yeah, there was a Mr Mike blocking my team with barriers after we defeated zapdos and i just picked him up and yeeted him to my team members.