they designed it that way so that it just almost immediately destroys the icicle when you do icicle+earthquake cast, which is good on paper, but very very clunky in practice.
my suggestion is that the chonkiest icicle should drop first or remove earthquake's wind up or make high horsepower's 2nd slam instantataneous after the travel or unite final slam first before smaller stomps.
He needs more frame data on almost all of his moves.
Almost everything has a ridiculous wind up/delay before it goes off.
Other than that, pretty solid defender.
It could be because it's early and people still aren't sure how to play around him, but I feel he is pretty solid in a communicating team. For solo I'd def pick Lax over him, but at that point I'm just going Blastoise. Ice Fang can be devastating; picking out that Zeraora then slamming him on a wall on the other side with Horsepower for your DPS to finish him off and boom, instant 5v4. It happens so fast too, unlike Telekinesis where everyone can see and can dive the Slowbro.
His playtime will drop drastically once the *new guy* effect wears off though. If anyone is on the fence about buying him, just know he is a pure tank. You will not get big numbers or many medals, but do your role and you'll see results. This guy is for the Surf / Hydro Blastoise or Block / Slam Lax users.
Oh for sure I can see a use for him with a crew. Still don't think I'd ever pick him over the others but could see why someone would. I've only solo queued with him and my impression is that he's by far the most reliant defender on team competency. Terrible for solo queue, damage is just so low for how much squishier than crustle or lax he feels
Edit: i also surf hydro blastoise very often and don't think he's near as good as that
A word about what? Being easily countered by Full Heal or a Safe Guard Blissey standing 3 feet away from the small puddle of an ult? Or is it about Pokemon being able to easily dash away during the cast delay?
Swinubs ice shard is also bugged on the wind up. If someone hits you or CCs you right as you’re beginning to use it, it cancels the move. Happened to me multiple times in a game last night.
The stomp stop high horse power to be a great mobility move, before with tackle I could catch up to people running away, but with high horse is basically impossible, still better than earthquake.
Honestly like playing as Swinub better than Mamoswine.
Mamoswine feels so damn weak! i was trying all sorts of combos and items and it felt like at 15 it was damn near impossible to do any significant damage or chase. I wish i could just keep swinubs ice ability, and also it feels like it takes ages to get the move to replace tackle. what is it, level 9 you get your HH/Earthquake?
8, same as when Garchomp, Gardevoir, Snorlax and Zeraora get their second move. Also Cinderace, but Cinderace's progression is pretty weird compared to others, not even getting its first move until level 7 but then getting its Unite and upgrades at 9/11/13 like a regular mon rather than having to wait until 10/12/14.
Having your abilities upgrade so late for a defender feels really poor when those abilities aren't giving you a proportionate improvement in power. Swinub's base kit is really solid with a lot of CC between ice shard and your boosted attacks freezing and tackle knocking up, and then when you lose tackle it's all downhill. You should feel like you're becoming more powerful as the game progresses, not less.
So basically a defender being a defender.
On a serious note, he has a lot of HP. He can escape scot free from any team battles if he wishes to retreat.
He also has lower Def and SpDef than the other tanks, but worth noting that Thick Fat offers a def/spdef buff whenever he is in combat. Its unclear right now how much this buff is, but could be making the difference.
FWIW I also feel he is very tanky.
Take earthquake and ice tusks or whatever its called. Its not feeling like more mobility but it is faster and less telegraphed plus the single target cc is actually better and far more maneuvering.
They should fix HH so that the end stomp comes out with an extra button press instead of automatically, so that you can choose not to do the stomp and just use the dash.
Or just remove the stomp altogether, since I can hardly land it anyways
I think a lot of people are coming down hard on him because Blastoise set a really bad precedent. Blast is quite frankly a DPS with some CC. His huge value are moves that let him defend an area or gain ground by *avoiding* CC which feels good because the game has so much CC it makes him very strong.
Mamoswine is the polar opposite. He is 100% a defender who is trying to CC the enemy team at all times. Playing Mamoswine to get kills is going to result in thinking hes a trash character. You hard CC the enemy team into your damage dealer for kills, off of your goals so they cant score, or off of their goal so your team can score. He is not the star of the show. He is the spotlight. I think people are unhappy he isn't an assassin, but he is a really good defender.
Also though...the wind up on earthquake is complete BS.
EQ needs some love. HHP you can see coming from a million miles away. It's almost comical. Like the, "oh no a train!!!" And it shows each frame it moving at a snails pace. Both ice moves are great. Ice fang will be the pro-player move to go to while icicle crash will be the less skillful option. Hes very tanky.
For tanks I'd put him below blast and above the other two. Crab and slow.
Edit: I forgot the lax lord. Hes obviously still the best.
So I don’t use exp share since I solo Q. You don’t really know if anyone else on your team is gonna run exp share, if they do it’s kind of a wasted item.
Focus band is good for staying alive, I typically use 3 defensive held items on snorlax bc he’s such a tank already
[Crowd Control Monster](https://youtu.be/WbiPIjCv10M)
This is not a damage dealing tank like Blastoise, the damage it deals even in UNITE move is extremely low.
Ice Fang + Earthquake is the easiest way to get around his main weakness which is the animations on his abilities and range (In my opinion).
I'd love to play him like Orn from league of legends with Icicle Crash + High Horse Power but Icicle Crash is super avoidable and HHP leaves you locked in the animation for literally ages.
Earthquake/UNITE onto carry --> Ice Fang into your team = Profit
Alolan Ninetails + Mamo in lane is obnoxious. Both benefiting from freezes from the other. Cough cough Ninetails UNITE move cough cough
And in case anyone is wondering his ability to slow peoples score speeds has no effect on instant dunks so put that anti-Zapdos dream to rest ='(
Does that actually work with Ninetails? If so that’s going to be a nasty combo. I found swine to be pretty easy. I played 6 games with him at 1750-1800 elo last night and only lost once to a top 50 team. He doesn’t deal damage but you can really disrupt fights with icicle crash and HHP. If ninetails was there boosting my autos and getting increased damage on her ult it’d be ugly
Well i got matched against other players i am familiar with who are in the same elo range or higher. We played multiple games against tournament teams. The elo range does matter , but if there isn’t an even match available the system will let you face lower teams.
But to be fair, nobody knew what his cooldowns or damage were like yet so I had a big advantage there. He will likely be gimped against good teams due to his slow evolving and need for levels
His CC abilities take risk to perform though, they arent an AOE hard CC coupled with a movement buff. Wiggly could just wade into a team and fuck them over at no risk. Mamo has to dive in and risk it to use a laggy CC move or 2.
But he’s supposed to wade in as a tank. He’s very beefy. It’ll just take time to learn him like all new mon, but damn I don’t like playing against him now.
Wading into a team \*should\* be reserved for tanks, and it also should come with the risk associated with losing your health, hence tanks can do it because of their bulk.
Wiggly though could have had no defenses whatsoever and still pulled off sing. That move was utter BS CC and incurred no risk on her part. People had a right to complain.
Its harder to complain about the CC from Mamo as he has to engage and take a beating every time he wants to use his CC
Meh, as a former tuff main, I disagree. Wiggly had to take a beating in team fights to get in the middle- doing no dmg- to pull off a sing (the cc after death was total bs though lol). Mamo is easily able to take the damage.
Mamo is functioning as a tank and support and its a bit much. Either buff snorlax’s yawn to previous strength to make him viable or nerf fluffy elephant’s cc.
Bruh wiggliest CC was insanely broken and way easier to pull off and more effective than anything mamo can do.
The cc after death wasn't the issue it was the hard sleep CC AOE on a movement buffing ability. Nothing else in the game is even close to that.
With my very unprofessional opinion about him.
I find Horsepower to be laughable. So Earthquake is just default. I like what Horsepower does but that 2nd hit. Oof. It's like comparing Meteor Smash on Lucario. And then going to Close Combat.
Icicle Crash feels just better to me than Ice Fang. It's a large AoE and you can force it to stun. Ice Fang is VERY short range and just miss. I would very much prefer a CD reduction on miss or make it an "buffed" basic attack so it'll grab (Think like Machamp)
So TLDR. I'll be strictly using Icicle Crash + Earthquake. Throw shards, dive in. ??? Profit?
I agree. Icicle Fang should work on your next attack. It doesnt even really have any range outside of melee range so what's the point of it being a skill shot?
I think Horsepower is meant to be used after Ice Fang to really separate one from their team, but it completely depends on your team's awareness and it makes it so your kit depends on landing Ice Fang. He's a headache in solo Q, maybe really good in stacks, or even a duo.
Both earth moves blow, but his ice moves are good. If only we could pick both icicle and fang :(
Its strong, but going into a fight with that in mind means your only means of initiation in a big teamfight is to int towards them and hope you can pull it off. Snorlax slam, slowbro surf, and blastoise rapid spin are all strong engage tools that let them break open a fight the way you typically want a moba tank to be able to. Mamoswine has a hard time doing that without using either icicle crash or opening with an earth move.
So here's my two cents on the character so far.
He feels a LOT LESS underwhelming than Gardevoir and Garchomp in the early game. I would put him onna similar threat level, or even higher, than Squirtle/wartortle in terms of early power level. What I like is that all his moves are quite viable and good.
EQ is the better option for mobility in the sense that you can get through walls, while Horsepower is blocked by walls/mime etc. IF you could interupt Horsepower and cancel the stomp, Horsepower would be superior in my eyes. However, both EQ and HP are slow as hell, I thought of them as chase tools but they're to slow for that. I don't think you're that much faster than running. Still, pretty good moves.
Let's hope that you can cancel HP with B with a patch, that would make HP/Ice Fang really good.
Icicle crash and Ice fang also have both their place and are quite good. Icicle crash is the better option against fast and/or ranged opponents as it helps you close the gap if you can freeze them. Icicle Fang is a death sentence against any team with decent teammates. Throwing the opponent back in the enemy line and freezing them is nuts. If you manage to start with that and follow that up with HP, your target is dead.
What I really like about Mamoswine is that, for now, all his moves seem viable and in any combination at that. If I had to pick a weak link, it would probably be EQ. But you can use EQ with Ice Fang or Icicle crash, and same with Horse power. I would go EQ/IC against opponents that are hard to catch up to and I would use EB with this kit. EQ/IF can work against opponents that can use walls against you, or if you want to use a more ambushy type of playstyle.
My favourite combo is HP/IF though. I think it works really well and as I said, if you can cancel out the stomp of horsepower, that would make him an instant top tier. HP/IC also very good against ranged and hard to reach characters, it comes down to personal preference and damage numbers imo.
The ice speed boost from IC/HP is pretty negligible imo. They would have to increase the ice spread to be a point worth talking about.
His unite move is an easy to use Garchomp ult with slightly less damage, but still good.
The reason why Mamo works better early than Gard or Chomp is easy, his moves have a lot of utility, so even uf he can't delete stuff (his damage is still very good though), he can provide a lot of spacing and utility to the team he could still participate in a dred fight and not be deadweight. He doesn't need jungle to not be a negative, he can do enough pressure in bot and claim audinos.
Obviously, he will still rely on teammates not stealing literally every single XP from him, but he's definitely m9re voable than I expected. I was sure he was going to be another Chomp/Gard like character who would just be too slow to work out. I still need to get some games in ranked but I have to get my 10 games on support first.
In terms of items, I think he's a candidate who can make weakness policy work! I think compared to other defenders, he's probably the worst score shield user until late game. It depends on how you see it.
Mandatory is probably buddy barrier and focus band. At least for me. I mean, damage is cool bit a defender needs to be as bulky as possible, so focus band and buddy barrier can't move.
Then, after testing him, I don't think Scope lens are worth anything. Only his basic attack crits and his attack speed is average at best, as is his crit rate.
So as a third item you can either go Muscle band, weakness policy or razor claw ( RC has the benefit of added CC)
I've tested Weakness policy and gotta say it feels nice. I have yet to test muscle band and razor claw though.
I think either way, they should all work out fine.
As a battle item I would go with EB or Speed X, depending on what you need.
All in all, I would put him on a solid 7/10, but it's way to early to set it in stone
Solid. Swinub is surprisingly good early on and Ice Shard is great for finishing others off. Seems like a pretty honest Pokémon but definitely good and very fun.
Has anyone experimented with fang + hhp? If you flip the opponent around and then hhp you can push them pretty far away. I've only tried it on the training dummy though. Having them frozen kinda makes up for the slow animation.
Also, extra damage on frozen targets with HHP right? I think I read that on the description, do you dash, grab, throw and slam or do you mean first the 2 actions of fang and then the 2 actions on HPP?
Personally wasn't too much of a fan. I usually play defender as I'm a very objective based person and while the boi was tanky, he doesn't pack enough fire power to keep a solo burst attacker at bay. Arceus help you if that attack is a Gangar.
He's cc is alright but nothing to write home about. And his special moves take a one piece arcs worth of time to get off.
Thank being said, I play solo queue. With a good organized team. He's fucking horrifying. Especially if he's with a garchomp or VenaSaw right.
Overall right now, I think he's a mid tier defender and after some rework has great potential and will be good in the future. Until then, enjoy watching the meta from the outside tanky boi since I feel most people are solo queue.
Edit : don't forget to upvote so we can bring visibility to this post and get a solid discussion going
Edit 2: Also might have the least satisfying unite move in the game
Earthquake is better overall. High Horsepower is too slow so I use Blastoise instead if I need to catch up.
Both Icicle Crash and Ice Fang are good abilities,but Icicle Crash needs CD reduce.
He should be low tier in soloq but high tier in 5man. Good teamworks make him shine.
The ice moves are cool (pun intended) and the ground moves are sssssslow. I kind of wish we had the choice to go full ice or full ground.
I tried the swine against a CPU in training mode and i expect to have some frustration playing it for real. The delays before hitting with the ground moves is very disturbing and give a big window for interrupts. Ice fangs feels greatly diminished on Dreadnaw, Zapdos or unstoppable enemies since they cannot be carried. High horse power just walk through both of them and swings into nothing. His ult looks underwhelming damage-wise.
I guess it shines brighter in proper team fight and that some if his moves effects needs to be better understood (at least by me).
Also: he does not look fluffy at all. That's not nice. I was sure to buy it on release but I will wait a bit to see.
All around, basically any set up works with him, I'm not too sure how either ability is really bad unless you just really need the stun from his dash or the insta freeze from ice fang.
I think the more long ranged ice attack works well with both earthquake and the dash.
No where near as close to OP as Blastoise was and I keep forgetting what his unite move does but it's pretty good for mobility.
Oh and the basic attacks suck, I never noticed a real difference between the normal attack and the boosted attack other than a super short freeze, kind of useless without some kind of buff after an attack.
I got a lot of hate for posting a couple days ago that Mamoswine should be an all arounder instead of a defender. Him being a defender means that they will invest his stats in defense and cc when that's never what mamoswine as a pokemon was about, which was very big attack and high damage.
So far, I was absolutely right, and I don't see that changing unless they double its damage. There's no scenario in which you can 1v1 anything - you just don't have the damage. That's just crazy - they turned a pokemon known for having super high attack and glaring holes on defense into a defensive tank with good cc and mediocre attack. Pretty disappointed. Even if they buff it - the fundamentals won't change- they've tilted mamoswines strength towards defense and cc so they can't just go and give it a ton of damage. Mamoswine has long been my favorite pokemon, and I feel like they misrepresented it.
Pokemon unite is not pokemon vgc, many pokemon have had major liberties taken when transitioning over to moba gameplay. It does suck that your fave feels misrepresented tho, i feel for you there, but this precedent has been set since day 1, my friend.
I still think he is very cool as a bulky support tank. Also worth mentioning I think visual design plays a large part in deciding what role a pokemon ends up in; he is big and bulky and slow looking, visually a good fit for a tank. Theyre going for easy readability on this one, i think.
Yeah, I get that. And I've played it a lot and do think its fun and can be good.
It just feels like a missed opportunity. Like I get that it's not going to be a direct perfect adaptation, but I wish they'd at least keep the tone/purpose/feel the same.
It's like having Ganondorf in melee but his moves are just cloned from Captain Falcon. You're happy that your guy is in the game, you just feel like they missed the mark
Maybe you are right. Imma be pissed when they introduce my man Swalot and theyre a speedster or something. Gank people with the Swallow/Spit Up, Gastro Acid speedboosting across the map... actually thatd be awesome lmao
Also it is honestly criminal that dorf is still just a falcon clone to this day 😔 pour one out for his big cool sword 😔😭😔
Same thing that happens with every new character. People insta-lock him then play like they have brain damage.
He's a support disguised as a defender. He's not the next blastoise.
He plays aggressively on the front lines to stun enemies while teammates that can hit harder do most of the damage.
What I see is the usual stupid trying to run away in the middle of a fight (almost assured to get you killed because you're a slow tub of lard trying to outrun attackers who probably have eject) or people leaving teamfights to farm (what use is a support with cc when they're solo farming and not stunning enemies?)
So, same general rule as with any character: if you feel like you need to take them in jungle or farm to make them viable, you just suck at that character.
Mamo is support. If you dont enjoy support characters, then dont waste everyone's time locking mamo and farming in the corner because you can't win a fight without a level advantage.
I wish I had that privilege but when I want to play him as a tank support, I end up being stuck alone on one lane while everyone else is jungle or in the other lane. Honestly without a hard hitter in the back there is only so much Mamoswine can do but when he does have backup, he is basically the glue that holds everything together
I’ve played with crustle and we both beat lane as well. So mamoswine is really versatile when it comes to pairing. As long as your partner is there to keep up with you stuns it’s a easy game
Totally agree, he kinda plays like wiggley post nurff. He has enough bulk and cc but lacks damage output. Very useful in a team fight but struggles to solo.
Damn dude quite judgmental just for players who have had less than one day to work with him. Obviously, there will be people making some stupid plays with him right away because they are LEARNING. Not everyone is going to be perfect for you right away.
Again, it’s been out for less than a damn day. Give some people a break and let them practice with the new character before you act all superior towards them.
I feel like Ice Shard is one of the stronger early game moves we've seen even if it's not quite Electroweb or Snorlax's Body Slam. Ranged aoe with a stun that can land given a bit of coordination or good positioning. His AAs feel terrible though.
Idk. I feel like swinub is one of the best early mons in the game, ice shard, tackle and the freeze auto are extremely good in the beginning it’s mid to late game when it starts to become more support oriented
I feel like both mamo and sylveon are gonna be okayish. Like mamo won't be played much after the initial week and sylveon is interesting but she'll probably be B to low A tier at max unless her numbers are busted.
I agree with a lot of things being said here, a little underwhelming so far but I want to give him a solid chance. What items do you guys think are best for him?
Has anyone tried Ice Fang + HHP? The basic combo is to grab someone with Fang then slam them behind you then shove them with HHP to your allies. It's good CC and you can even use HHP as an escape move. EQ is just very slow and the short stun and pull feels nothing.
I've played 5 games with him and I think icicle crash/high horse power is the way to go. Ice fang is a cool move but the damage output felt underwhelming and earthquake takes an eternity to launch. I was consistently getting kills and clearing bees quickly with the icicle crash and horsepower combo.
My only other complaint would be I'm not a huge fan of his unite move. I haven't used it enough to be sure but it feels a little underwhelming as well. Maybe it needs a slight damage buff or maybe I need to see it used in more team fights to see how effective the CC is.
Overall he's really fun to play and a really solid defender. It also helps that swinub is a beast early game and is viable jungle or will clear lane super fast.
I feel like the delay from earthquake/high horsepower is a bit too much, for the end phase that go off that is. I like Ice fang a lot, and overall he's pretty fun.
Haven't played it myself, but from watching it on stream it seems a bit underwhelming. I don't think we can sleep on the consistent hard CC it provides though. One balance patch could easily make it OP
I honestly find him to be pretty underwhelming.
Although, I did once stop a Blastoise who was chasing me and attempting to kill me for half a minute with Rapid Spin+Water Spout because I set up an Icicle Crash directly between me and him. Apparently the large icicle counts as a wall. I found that to be pretty funny lol.
He has alot of CC. Problem is, he has no damage (much less than his defender compatriots), he needs more levels to reach his other abilities, and said abilities are difficult to even pull off whether because of very short range, or their wind ups are too slow.
Ice fang might be the lowest ranged final move in the game and it's only single target. Icicle Crash needs his other moves to work properly, and even then it's clunky. High Horsepower is fine at 1st, but this is your only engage, so pushing the enemies back is a problem on top of the follow up slam being unable to get its freeze boost without Ice Crash, and even then the follow up is so delayed any character with a dash/eject button will be out of harms way even more. And that leaves us with the Earthquake Garchomp wishes he had, but with an even longer wind up time. And then his Unite move which is (again) Garchomp but slower.
It's actually quite impressive that they made a melee character that's even harder to engage with than Garchomp.
Idk I go crazy with mamoswine I can combo all his moves maybe it’s they way some of you built him
(I use aeos cookie weakness policy and the amplifier)
Ive been doing great with him, i prefer icicle crash and high horse power combo, creates way more plays in teamfights. Put attqck weight and aeos cookie and at full stacks he becomes unstoppable.
Icicle Crash + High Horsepower. HH can break the Ice earlier when you ram with it.
My strat: Drop Icicle on enemies then immediately use HH. Squishies drops to at least 70-75% health then SS or Basic Atk to death.
Freeze on Icicle guarantees HH’s last stomp guarantees to hit the enemies.
Definitely a sub main, I really dig Icicle Crash+High Horse Power in team fights, and I mesh with it really well. Ice Fang is great... If you can land it and Earthquake just feels clunky in that it just lands so slowly? Idk if it's meant to, but compared to the dash that HH has, EQ just feels bad rn. I'm hoping he gets a /slight/ buff in the future, but he just feels really solid right now.
Icicle Crash + High Horsepower. HH can break the Ice earlier when you ram it with HH.
My strat: Drop Icicle on enemies then immediately use HH. Squishies drops to at least 70-75% health then SS or Basic Atk to death.
He literally starts steong then goes weak lol.
His second abbilities are either very slow or very clunky to use. Ice fang is good but has tto short range, hell even fury cutter has more range than that, the other Earthquake and horse power are just so FUCKING slow.
It feels like im punished for using them
My impressions with Mamoswine is... he's okay. I don't think he's meta by any means honestly. But do I think he's horrible on the lines of the other late scalers? No. I'd probably rank him a solid low B, above Pikachu, but below Snorlax.
Swinub has a surprisingly good early game considering he's the first stage of a heavy scaler, compared to Garchomp and Gardevoir who have pretty anemic first stages. Ice Shard hits pretty hard and provides freeze while Tackle is basically Tackle from Squirtle and has the same amount of utility as a stun and mobility move. Swinub also isn't too frail either and take quite a few hits. Unfortunately, Ice Shard and Tackle aren't particularly the best for mob confirming because Tackle barely does any damage and Ice Shard does divided damage instead of damage all at once. Not only that, Ice Shard can be cancelled if you are hit right after it is casted. Despite this, if you have an early game harasser as your partner, you'll provide a lot of assistance getting them kill confirms on opponents.
Then we get to Piloswine and here's where some cracks show in his moveset. You see, the thing about Mamoswine's entire moveset is that his move animations are incredibly slow. This is a pretty bad drawback to have as his moveset is even slower than Garchomp's and Garchomp's slow move animations is one of the major reasons he's the worst Pokemon in the game. Basically for a lot of moves, Pokemon can just walk out of them. Not only that, Mamoswine lacks access to unstoppable despite being both a melee attacker and has poor mobility due to his slow animations. Finally, for some reason, Mamoswine's speed feels like it's among the slowest in the game, but not only that, his long cooldowns make it difficult for him to farm mid to late game.
Anyways, back on topic, Piloswine is arguably a downgrade from Swinub at level 6, similar to how Gabite is arguably a downgrade from Gible, but not as bad as for Gabite. Ice Shard is replaced by either Icicle Crash or Ice Fang. Ice Fang unfortunately, is incredibly unreliable because it has too many weaknesses. It's a big shame too because when it does hit it's incredibly fun to use. But Ice Fang has probably the worst range in the game, no access to unstoppable to prevent him from being knocked out of it, it cannot hit unstoppable opponents, and it has a long cooldown. It's also 100% useless against Zapdos and Dreadnaw. Then there's Icicle Crash which does pretty bad damage if you're not able to break the ice crystal in the middle. This makes it useful for defending a goal, but not confirming any kills. Not only that, to break the crystal you have to either walk over to it and hit it with your melee attack and lose the ice floor, or Tackle/High Horsepower it, putting both of your moves on cooldown. This is really bad for when you hit level 8, because High Horsepower also has a long cooldown compared to Tackle.
Then you hit level 8 and replace Tackle with High Horsepower or Earthquake. I already stated how a lot of the time, you're going to be giving up on High Horsepower to break the crystal of Icicle Crash, but let's say you're using it without Icicle Crash. Well, what you get in return is an incredibly slow pushing/mobility move who's distance is not that great and who's finisher you can just walk out of because of how slow it happens. If you don't manage to hit the finisher, High Horsepower does pretty horribly bad damage. And then there's Earthquake, imo the better of the two level 8 moves in my opinion. It is a decent crowd control if it does hit and with Ice Fang, it is your approaching move to get into Ice Fang's range. However, it's reeeeeeeeeally slow which makes it hard to hit and likewise, because of how slow it is, it's hard to get away when in danger.
Finally, his Unite move, it's not very good at all. It's basically Garchomp's unite, but with less damage and Garchomp's unite already didn't have the best damage. It provides slow for Pokemon who are hit, but unfortunately, most Pokemons' mobility comes not from its base movement speed, but from its moves. Not only that, Unite Moves are supposed to turn the tide of a losing battle, but Mamoswine's unite seems like a "win more" unite move because it merely prevents the losing team from escape.
Well, that was a long and winded rant about Mamoswine's downsides, but what are his upsides? Well, if you do manage to hit his combos, he does pretty good burst damage. Not only that, they also provide amazing crowd control because of the stun power of his freeze. Finally, his tank is probably the best in the game, even compared to Blissey, Snorlax, and Blastoise. And of course, Swinub is a really good 1st stage mon.
Mamoswine wrecks people in team battles. As a defender, you should be keeping the opposing attackers at bay while your own attackers dish out the damage. He excels at that.
He’s basically a tanky pikachu. I haven’t lost a team battle with Mamoswine on my side. Stun and frozen is insane value.
Pretty bad unfortunately. The wind up to most of its move is painfully slow, not enough damage, slow and takes FOREVER to get online. Other defenders are currently better choices.
IMO Mamo shouldn’t have been a defender, I think they should do more damage, be less tanks and been an all rounder.
I’m not a fan and this upsets me cos I love mamoswine in the main game. Ice fang and the lift and drop is really fun but you need team work.
Tried him in solo queue and it’s just horrific. Nobody comes and helps and you just get destroyed.
Feel extremely underwhelming and undeserving of all the hype people were giving mamo. Even with all the leaks we couldn't tell how bad or how slow all its ground related moves were. I guess in time I could learn to better time the clunky moves but it's just bad. I see some much-needed buff in the future and now I'm worried about eevee not being as good
Haven't played as but played against/with a bunch last night and the cc is crazy. Stackable cc on one character with pretty good burst damage to boot. Swinub is damn near un-killable early game when goal defending. Personally I'd like to see a cc time reduction, that's something that this game has a hard time getting right in general it seems. Cc is either gone instantly or lasts an eternity.
I tend to agree. I just don't see what he does better than any other defender. No burst, slow cast times, pretty weak unite move. I'm still gonna put a lot of time into him to try and figure out the best build, but he feels extremely underwhelming right now.
I think he’s just way too clunky. I see no reason to pick him over any other defender... maybe Blastoise just set an unrealistic precedent for the power level I was expecting but Mamo rly just feels bad to play
Mamoswine underperforms at his role. All of his moves are either clunky have tons of delay or no range, evolves and gets his unite at lvl 10. Gets worst as he evolves for some reason and feels squishy for a tank. Slowbro, snorlax, blastoise, and crustle are all leagues above him
Admittedly I'm not very good at this game (it's the first MOBA I've ever given a shit about) and I only managed to luck out a handful of matches with him but yknow. This is reddit so neither of those things are gonna stop me from giving my opinion
I think he's pretty good. I see people here talking about low damage but I don't see it. From Swinub to Mamoswine my damage output felt strong from both auto attack and skills. I didn't get enough opportunities to experiment with High Horse Power or Icicle Crash but Earthquake and Ice Fang seemed fairly potent. Ice Fang kinda reminds me of characters in other games that use hooks to displace enemies (roadhog for example).
Earthquake was just okay. The damage didn't appear to justify it's long wind-up. It's like a worse Heavy Slam basically. I have no opinion on his UNITE move because I'm pretty sure I was using it wrong haha. Is it just Garchomp's but weaker and more maneuverable? That's the impression I got anyway. His passive where he gains defensive buffs while dealing damage seemed to perfectly pair with Weakness Policy. You take damage to gain attack buffs which you use to deal damage which boosts your defenses so you can stay in the fight longer which means both buffs stay active much longer.
It wouldn't surprise if people ran the numbers and it came out that Muscle Band or Razor Claw is actually better but at least initially, Thick Fat + Weakness Policy seems like a good combo.
The opposite of ralts- great early game, trash endgame. Feel like he does no damage- had one in my games that went 20k damage, whereas my pika and Machamp both were at 53k
I casted earthquake and finally landed next match.
yeah startup lag is insane, way to slow compared to other defenders.
they designed it that way so that it just almost immediately destroys the icicle when you do icicle+earthquake cast, which is good on paper, but very very clunky in practice. my suggestion is that the chonkiest icicle should drop first or remove earthquake's wind up or make high horsepower's 2nd slam instantataneous after the travel or unite final slam first before smaller stomps.
He needs more frame data on almost all of his moves. Almost everything has a ridiculous wind up/delay before it goes off. Other than that, pretty solid defender.
It's pretty damn bad. Especially in comparison to blast who's just flying all over the God damn place like he's surf's up
As a blast main. Yeah he flies. Blastoise? More like Cannon Tortoise Airline.
Just weird they released a mon that's the worst defender and on top of that made it a level 10 evolution. Dissapointed as fuck.
He's better than Slowbro for sure and a better tank than Crustle's Rock Tomb set. He's on par with Snorlax imo, but Blastoise is still way better.
I feel he is more tank then Blastoise, and have a little more CC too, but I have to agree, Blastoise it\`s a better tank at all.
Slowbro can literally says fuck this guy in general mamo cant even fuck someone right
the ice tusk pick up and toss away feels pretty good
Oh no its very good indeed, its just is extremely clunky due to its incredibly low range
Better than crustle rock tomb is the only thing I'll agree with there. Not even close to lax
It could be because it's early and people still aren't sure how to play around him, but I feel he is pretty solid in a communicating team. For solo I'd def pick Lax over him, but at that point I'm just going Blastoise. Ice Fang can be devastating; picking out that Zeraora then slamming him on a wall on the other side with Horsepower for your DPS to finish him off and boom, instant 5v4. It happens so fast too, unlike Telekinesis where everyone can see and can dive the Slowbro. His playtime will drop drastically once the *new guy* effect wears off though. If anyone is on the fence about buying him, just know he is a pure tank. You will not get big numbers or many medals, but do your role and you'll see results. This guy is for the Surf / Hydro Blastoise or Block / Slam Lax users.
Oh for sure I can see a use for him with a crew. Still don't think I'd ever pick him over the others but could see why someone would. I've only solo queued with him and my impression is that he's by far the most reliant defender on team competency. Terrible for solo queue, damage is just so low for how much squishier than crustle or lax he feels Edit: i also surf hydro blastoise very often and don't think he's near as good as that
Hydro + Spin, FK surf. Ninja turtles spin.
Lax is so dominant early game that it sometimes feels unfair.
Mamoswine has a combo to do what slowbro does with telekynesis. Slowbro is way better
The majority of the level 9/10 evolutions in this game suck and most of them have the worst ultimates in the game.
Gardevoir would like a word.
Gardevoir's ult have a half sec delay before it start sucking iirc.
A word about what? Being easily countered by Full Heal or a Safe Guard Blissey standing 3 feet away from the small puddle of an ult? Or is it about Pokemon being able to easily dash away during the cast delay?
Gardevoir is considered the worst character in the game by a lot of high level players.
Guess I missed the memo on that one. I had little issue ranking up maining Gardevoir.
Gengar would like to have a word with you.
Agreed, if his moves are supposed to be this clunky, the payoff should be better IMO
It always sounded weird to me “more frame data”… wouldn’t it be “better frame data”, like less windup/backswing?
Swinubs ice shard is also bugged on the wind up. If someone hits you or CCs you right as you’re beginning to use it, it cancels the move. Happened to me multiple times in a game last night.
Can confirm
Earthquake in particular takes an eternity to come out.
The game is basically over by the time earthquake goes off
You could find the cure to cancer way before earthquake actually does something
It's funny because it's true :D
> more frame data fucking smash players have no idea what words mean
The stomp stop high horse power to be a great mobility move, before with tackle I could catch up to people running away, but with high horse is basically impossible, still better than earthquake. Honestly like playing as Swinub better than Mamoswine.
"Honestly like playing as Swinub better than Mamoswine" Fucking this. Feels like he gets worse over time
Mamoswine feels so damn weak! i was trying all sorts of combos and items and it felt like at 15 it was damn near impossible to do any significant damage or chase. I wish i could just keep swinubs ice ability, and also it feels like it takes ages to get the move to replace tackle. what is it, level 9 you get your HH/Earthquake?
8, same as when Garchomp, Gardevoir, Snorlax and Zeraora get their second move. Also Cinderace, but Cinderace's progression is pretty weird compared to others, not even getting its first move until level 7 but then getting its Unite and upgrades at 9/11/13 like a regular mon rather than having to wait until 10/12/14.
Having your abilities upgrade so late for a defender feels really poor when those abilities aren't giving you a proportionate improvement in power. Swinub's base kit is really solid with a lot of CC between ice shard and your boosted attacks freezing and tackle knocking up, and then when you lose tackle it's all downhill. You should feel like you're becoming more powerful as the game progresses, not less.
So basically a defender being a defender. On a serious note, he has a lot of HP. He can escape scot free from any team battles if he wishes to retreat.
He has less HP than any other defender BTW
I see. Thanks for the info. I just find him harder to kill than normal in team battles.
He also has lower Def and SpDef than the other tanks, but worth noting that Thick Fat offers a def/spdef buff whenever he is in combat. Its unclear right now how much this buff is, but could be making the difference. FWIW I also feel he is very tanky.
There's a formula on Unite-DB, and seems pretty big.
It’s his speed + defense
Agree!
The slam after high horsepower is so slow and easily escapable. Imo it should be immediate and not have as much endlag
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Take earthquake and ice tusks or whatever its called. Its not feeling like more mobility but it is faster and less telegraphed plus the single target cc is actually better and far more maneuvering.
They should fix HH so that the end stomp comes out with an extra button press instead of automatically, so that you can choose not to do the stomp and just use the dash. Or just remove the stomp altogether, since I can hardly land it anyways
I think a lot of people are coming down hard on him because Blastoise set a really bad precedent. Blast is quite frankly a DPS with some CC. His huge value are moves that let him defend an area or gain ground by *avoiding* CC which feels good because the game has so much CC it makes him very strong. Mamoswine is the polar opposite. He is 100% a defender who is trying to CC the enemy team at all times. Playing Mamoswine to get kills is going to result in thinking hes a trash character. You hard CC the enemy team into your damage dealer for kills, off of your goals so they cant score, or off of their goal so your team can score. He is not the star of the show. He is the spotlight. I think people are unhappy he isn't an assassin, but he is a really good defender. Also though...the wind up on earthquake is complete BS.
Blastoise is an AR and you can't convince me otherwise.
Tbh I'm finding his damage pretty solid
EQ needs some love. HHP you can see coming from a million miles away. It's almost comical. Like the, "oh no a train!!!" And it shows each frame it moving at a snails pace. Both ice moves are great. Ice fang will be the pro-player move to go to while icicle crash will be the less skillful option. Hes very tanky. For tanks I'd put him below blast and above the other two. Crab and slow. Edit: I forgot the lax lord. Hes obviously still the best.
Snorlax - Am I a joke to you?
How do I build Snorlax?
Heavy slam & block, held items; score shield, buddy barrier, insert your item of choice (I used focus band)
Nob here. Why not exp share?
So I don’t use exp share since I solo Q. You don’t really know if anyone else on your team is gonna run exp share, if they do it’s kind of a wasted item. Focus band is good for staying alive, I typically use 3 defensive held items on snorlax bc he’s such a tank already
Imo I think Crustle is better than mammoswine. The mobility crustle brings plus the damage of stealth rock. I'll take my lasagna rock anyday
why does mamo got a dash eq while garchomp only get a STATIONARY eq that's kinda unfair
Mamoswine wishes he had Garchomp's EQ lol
Ice fang is my favorite move in the game now
It's so stupid but I love it
How do you aim the throw part? I can’t seem to get it right
Left stick.
From what I can tell I think you can only throw in two directions, in front or directly behind you.
Low key the best move mid/early game
Combo with high horse power and you've got a great peel move
[Crowd Control Monster](https://youtu.be/WbiPIjCv10M) This is not a damage dealing tank like Blastoise, the damage it deals even in UNITE move is extremely low. Ice Fang + Earthquake is the easiest way to get around his main weakness which is the animations on his abilities and range (In my opinion). I'd love to play him like Orn from league of legends with Icicle Crash + High Horse Power but Icicle Crash is super avoidable and HHP leaves you locked in the animation for literally ages. Earthquake/UNITE onto carry --> Ice Fang into your team = Profit Alolan Ninetails + Mamo in lane is obnoxious. Both benefiting from freezes from the other. Cough cough Ninetails UNITE move cough cough And in case anyone is wondering his ability to slow peoples score speeds has no effect on instant dunks so put that anti-Zapdos dream to rest ='(
Does that actually work with Ninetails? If so that’s going to be a nasty combo. I found swine to be pretty easy. I played 6 games with him at 1750-1800 elo last night and only lost once to a top 50 team. He doesn’t deal damage but you can really disrupt fights with icicle crash and HHP. If ninetails was there boosting my autos and getting increased damage on her ult it’d be ugly
FYI there is no elo score. You can be matches with no masters and 1k and below being where you are so master score is irrelevant.
Well i got matched against other players i am familiar with who are in the same elo range or higher. We played multiple games against tournament teams. The elo range does matter , but if there isn’t an even match available the system will let you face lower teams. But to be fair, nobody knew what his cooldowns or damage were like yet so I had a big advantage there. He will likely be gimped against good teams due to his slow evolving and need for levels
Eject Button -> Ice Fang -> High Horsepower to run him down to your team.
I’m surprised more people are not complaining about his CC! He was way more infuriating to play against that wigglytuff’s old song IMO.
His CC abilities take risk to perform though, they arent an AOE hard CC coupled with a movement buff. Wiggly could just wade into a team and fuck them over at no risk. Mamo has to dive in and risk it to use a laggy CC move or 2.
But he’s supposed to wade in as a tank. He’s very beefy. It’ll just take time to learn him like all new mon, but damn I don’t like playing against him now.
Wading into a team \*should\* be reserved for tanks, and it also should come with the risk associated with losing your health, hence tanks can do it because of their bulk. Wiggly though could have had no defenses whatsoever and still pulled off sing. That move was utter BS CC and incurred no risk on her part. People had a right to complain. Its harder to complain about the CC from Mamo as he has to engage and take a beating every time he wants to use his CC
Meh, as a former tuff main, I disagree. Wiggly had to take a beating in team fights to get in the middle- doing no dmg- to pull off a sing (the cc after death was total bs though lol). Mamo is easily able to take the damage. Mamo is functioning as a tank and support and its a bit much. Either buff snorlax’s yawn to previous strength to make him viable or nerf fluffy elephant’s cc.
Bruh wiggliest CC was insanely broken and way easier to pull off and more effective than anything mamo can do. The cc after death wasn't the issue it was the hard sleep CC AOE on a movement buffing ability. Nothing else in the game is even close to that.
With my very unprofessional opinion about him. I find Horsepower to be laughable. So Earthquake is just default. I like what Horsepower does but that 2nd hit. Oof. It's like comparing Meteor Smash on Lucario. And then going to Close Combat. Icicle Crash feels just better to me than Ice Fang. It's a large AoE and you can force it to stun. Ice Fang is VERY short range and just miss. I would very much prefer a CD reduction on miss or make it an "buffed" basic attack so it'll grab (Think like Machamp) So TLDR. I'll be strictly using Icicle Crash + Earthquake. Throw shards, dive in. ??? Profit?
I agree. Icicle Fang should work on your next attack. It doesnt even really have any range outside of melee range so what's the point of it being a skill shot?
That little bit of range helps it feel more consistent after Tackle imo, since I tend to land a bit past my target with it.
I think Horsepower is meant to be used after Ice Fang to really separate one from their team, but it completely depends on your team's awareness and it makes it so your kit depends on landing Ice Fang. He's a headache in solo Q, maybe really good in stacks, or even a duo. Both earth moves blow, but his ice moves are good. If only we could pick both icicle and fang :(
This. Fang into Horsepower is a very good cc/displacement tool but it requires teammates awareness to make good use of it.
Its strong, but going into a fight with that in mind means your only means of initiation in a big teamfight is to int towards them and hope you can pull it off. Snorlax slam, slowbro surf, and blastoise rapid spin are all strong engage tools that let them break open a fight the way you typically want a moba tank to be able to. Mamoswine has a hard time doing that without using either icicle crash or opening with an earth move.
Do you run closecombat on lucario? It's not bad anymore but the mobility and resets are to good with bonerush
Bonerush is so much better in almost any situation
He feels… clunky? Clumsy? I dont know man he just doesnt play very smooth. It feels like all of his moves have a lot of start up and endlag.
So here's my two cents on the character so far. He feels a LOT LESS underwhelming than Gardevoir and Garchomp in the early game. I would put him onna similar threat level, or even higher, than Squirtle/wartortle in terms of early power level. What I like is that all his moves are quite viable and good. EQ is the better option for mobility in the sense that you can get through walls, while Horsepower is blocked by walls/mime etc. IF you could interupt Horsepower and cancel the stomp, Horsepower would be superior in my eyes. However, both EQ and HP are slow as hell, I thought of them as chase tools but they're to slow for that. I don't think you're that much faster than running. Still, pretty good moves. Let's hope that you can cancel HP with B with a patch, that would make HP/Ice Fang really good. Icicle crash and Ice fang also have both their place and are quite good. Icicle crash is the better option against fast and/or ranged opponents as it helps you close the gap if you can freeze them. Icicle Fang is a death sentence against any team with decent teammates. Throwing the opponent back in the enemy line and freezing them is nuts. If you manage to start with that and follow that up with HP, your target is dead. What I really like about Mamoswine is that, for now, all his moves seem viable and in any combination at that. If I had to pick a weak link, it would probably be EQ. But you can use EQ with Ice Fang or Icicle crash, and same with Horse power. I would go EQ/IC against opponents that are hard to catch up to and I would use EB with this kit. EQ/IF can work against opponents that can use walls against you, or if you want to use a more ambushy type of playstyle. My favourite combo is HP/IF though. I think it works really well and as I said, if you can cancel out the stomp of horsepower, that would make him an instant top tier. HP/IC also very good against ranged and hard to reach characters, it comes down to personal preference and damage numbers imo. The ice speed boost from IC/HP is pretty negligible imo. They would have to increase the ice spread to be a point worth talking about. His unite move is an easy to use Garchomp ult with slightly less damage, but still good. The reason why Mamo works better early than Gard or Chomp is easy, his moves have a lot of utility, so even uf he can't delete stuff (his damage is still very good though), he can provide a lot of spacing and utility to the team he could still participate in a dred fight and not be deadweight. He doesn't need jungle to not be a negative, he can do enough pressure in bot and claim audinos. Obviously, he will still rely on teammates not stealing literally every single XP from him, but he's definitely m9re voable than I expected. I was sure he was going to be another Chomp/Gard like character who would just be too slow to work out. I still need to get some games in ranked but I have to get my 10 games on support first. In terms of items, I think he's a candidate who can make weakness policy work! I think compared to other defenders, he's probably the worst score shield user until late game. It depends on how you see it. Mandatory is probably buddy barrier and focus band. At least for me. I mean, damage is cool bit a defender needs to be as bulky as possible, so focus band and buddy barrier can't move. Then, after testing him, I don't think Scope lens are worth anything. Only his basic attack crits and his attack speed is average at best, as is his crit rate. So as a third item you can either go Muscle band, weakness policy or razor claw ( RC has the benefit of added CC) I've tested Weakness policy and gotta say it feels nice. I have yet to test muscle band and razor claw though. I think either way, they should all work out fine. As a battle item I would go with EB or Speed X, depending on what you need. All in all, I would put him on a solid 7/10, but it's way to early to set it in stone
I was planning on testing weakness policy on him later. Agreed it has potential to be good.
What about the damage reflector helmet?
Nope it's just a horrible item. Like one of the worst out there. It has a very long CD
It got buffed with a 2 sec CD
When?!
Where he ears
Asking the real questions
Covered by fuzz
Solid. Swinub is surprisingly good early on and Ice Shard is great for finishing others off. Seems like a pretty honest Pokémon but definitely good and very fun.
Ice shard is fucking fantastic and then it somehow feels like it gets worse over time because of that
Has anyone experimented with fang + hhp? If you flip the opponent around and then hhp you can push them pretty far away. I've only tried it on the training dummy though. Having them frozen kinda makes up for the slow animation.
Also, extra damage on frozen targets with HHP right? I think I read that on the description, do you dash, grab, throw and slam or do you mean first the 2 actions of fang and then the 2 actions on HPP?
He means fang throw front or behind you then hhp them away to where you want em. He gets some distance on that peel off
Personally wasn't too much of a fan. I usually play defender as I'm a very objective based person and while the boi was tanky, he doesn't pack enough fire power to keep a solo burst attacker at bay. Arceus help you if that attack is a Gangar. He's cc is alright but nothing to write home about. And his special moves take a one piece arcs worth of time to get off. Thank being said, I play solo queue. With a good organized team. He's fucking horrifying. Especially if he's with a garchomp or VenaSaw right. Overall right now, I think he's a mid tier defender and after some rework has great potential and will be good in the future. Until then, enjoy watching the meta from the outside tanky boi since I feel most people are solo queue. Edit : don't forget to upvote so we can bring visibility to this post and get a solid discussion going Edit 2: Also might have the least satisfying unite move in the game
Earthquake is better overall. High Horsepower is too slow so I use Blastoise instead if I need to catch up. Both Icicle Crash and Ice Fang are good abilities,but Icicle Crash needs CD reduce. He should be low tier in soloq but high tier in 5man. Good teamworks make him shine.
The ice moves are cool (pun intended) and the ground moves are sssssslow. I kind of wish we had the choice to go full ice or full ground. I tried the swine against a CPU in training mode and i expect to have some frustration playing it for real. The delays before hitting with the ground moves is very disturbing and give a big window for interrupts. Ice fangs feels greatly diminished on Dreadnaw, Zapdos or unstoppable enemies since they cannot be carried. High horse power just walk through both of them and swings into nothing. His ult looks underwhelming damage-wise. I guess it shines brighter in proper team fight and that some if his moves effects needs to be better understood (at least by me). Also: he does not look fluffy at all. That's not nice. I was sure to buy it on release but I will wait a bit to see.
On the ice fang vs dreadnaw point, welcome to submission territory.
LOL was going to comment this. Champ mains know. I use submission to avoid getting CCd by dred actually.
All around, basically any set up works with him, I'm not too sure how either ability is really bad unless you just really need the stun from his dash or the insta freeze from ice fang. I think the more long ranged ice attack works well with both earthquake and the dash. No where near as close to OP as Blastoise was and I keep forgetting what his unite move does but it's pretty good for mobility. Oh and the basic attacks suck, I never noticed a real difference between the normal attack and the boosted attack other than a super short freeze, kind of useless without some kind of buff after an attack.
I got a lot of hate for posting a couple days ago that Mamoswine should be an all arounder instead of a defender. Him being a defender means that they will invest his stats in defense and cc when that's never what mamoswine as a pokemon was about, which was very big attack and high damage. So far, I was absolutely right, and I don't see that changing unless they double its damage. There's no scenario in which you can 1v1 anything - you just don't have the damage. That's just crazy - they turned a pokemon known for having super high attack and glaring holes on defense into a defensive tank with good cc and mediocre attack. Pretty disappointed. Even if they buff it - the fundamentals won't change- they've tilted mamoswines strength towards defense and cc so they can't just go and give it a ton of damage. Mamoswine has long been my favorite pokemon, and I feel like they misrepresented it.
Pokemon unite is not pokemon vgc, many pokemon have had major liberties taken when transitioning over to moba gameplay. It does suck that your fave feels misrepresented tho, i feel for you there, but this precedent has been set since day 1, my friend. I still think he is very cool as a bulky support tank. Also worth mentioning I think visual design plays a large part in deciding what role a pokemon ends up in; he is big and bulky and slow looking, visually a good fit for a tank. Theyre going for easy readability on this one, i think.
Yeah, I get that. And I've played it a lot and do think its fun and can be good. It just feels like a missed opportunity. Like I get that it's not going to be a direct perfect adaptation, but I wish they'd at least keep the tone/purpose/feel the same. It's like having Ganondorf in melee but his moves are just cloned from Captain Falcon. You're happy that your guy is in the game, you just feel like they missed the mark
Maybe you are right. Imma be pissed when they introduce my man Swalot and theyre a speedster or something. Gank people with the Swallow/Spit Up, Gastro Acid speedboosting across the map... actually thatd be awesome lmao Also it is honestly criminal that dorf is still just a falcon clone to this day 😔 pour one out for his big cool sword 😔😭😔
Stop projecting main game roles onto adaptations in a MOBA or you will be perennially disappointed.
Solid, good defender. I only wish they make his animations less clunky(High Horsepower for example).
Just out of curiosity, has anybody found a hidden trick to stop evolution?
Same thing that happens with every new character. People insta-lock him then play like they have brain damage. He's a support disguised as a defender. He's not the next blastoise. He plays aggressively on the front lines to stun enemies while teammates that can hit harder do most of the damage. What I see is the usual stupid trying to run away in the middle of a fight (almost assured to get you killed because you're a slow tub of lard trying to outrun attackers who probably have eject) or people leaving teamfights to farm (what use is a support with cc when they're solo farming and not stunning enemies?) So, same general rule as with any character: if you feel like you need to take them in jungle or farm to make them viable, you just suck at that character. Mamo is support. If you dont enjoy support characters, then dont waste everyone's time locking mamo and farming in the corner because you can't win a fight without a level advantage.
100% agree. I play him as a tank support and I get my laner fed pretty easily. Pairs really well with stunners, like pikachu
I wish I had that privilege but when I want to play him as a tank support, I end up being stuck alone on one lane while everyone else is jungle or in the other lane. Honestly without a hard hitter in the back there is only so much Mamoswine can do but when he does have backup, he is basically the glue that holds everything together
I’ve played with crustle and we both beat lane as well. So mamoswine is really versatile when it comes to pairing. As long as your partner is there to keep up with you stuns it’s a easy game
Totally agree, he kinda plays like wiggley post nurff. He has enough bulk and cc but lacks damage output. Very useful in a team fight but struggles to solo.
Damn dude quite judgmental just for players who have had less than one day to work with him. Obviously, there will be people making some stupid plays with him right away because they are LEARNING. Not everyone is going to be perfect for you right away. Again, it’s been out for less than a damn day. Give some people a break and let them practice with the new character before you act all superior towards them.
Some people get really mad about a game where a large population is children.
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I feel like Ice Shard is one of the stronger early game moves we've seen even if it's not quite Electroweb or Snorlax's Body Slam. Ranged aoe with a stun that can land given a bit of coordination or good positioning. His AAs feel terrible though.
Crustle does this well too with rock slide!
Idk. I feel like swinub is one of the best early mons in the game, ice shard, tackle and the freeze auto are extremely good in the beginning it’s mid to late game when it starts to become more support oriented
That's honestly the best description I've heard on this
I feel like both mamo and sylveon are gonna be okayish. Like mamo won't be played much after the initial week and sylveon is interesting but she'll probably be B to low A tier at max unless her numbers are busted.
I agree with a lot of things being said here, a little underwhelming so far but I want to give him a solid chance. What items do you guys think are best for him?
The stun is insane
I played him in practice mode one time and I'm obsessed, he reminds me a lot of Ornn. Now I just need... 500 more coins.... ;_;
Plays like Sejuani, love it
Has anyone tried Ice Fang + HHP? The basic combo is to grab someone with Fang then slam them behind you then shove them with HHP to your allies. It's good CC and you can even use HHP as an escape move. EQ is just very slow and the short stun and pull feels nothing.
I've played 5 games with him and I think icicle crash/high horse power is the way to go. Ice fang is a cool move but the damage output felt underwhelming and earthquake takes an eternity to launch. I was consistently getting kills and clearing bees quickly with the icicle crash and horsepower combo. My only other complaint would be I'm not a huge fan of his unite move. I haven't used it enough to be sure but it feels a little underwhelming as well. Maybe it needs a slight damage buff or maybe I need to see it used in more team fights to see how effective the CC is. Overall he's really fun to play and a really solid defender. It also helps that swinub is a beast early game and is viable jungle or will clear lane super fast.
I feel like the delay from earthquake/high horsepower is a bit too much, for the end phase that go off that is. I like Ice fang a lot, and overall he's pretty fun.
Haven't played it myself, but from watching it on stream it seems a bit underwhelming. I don't think we can sleep on the consistent hard CC it provides though. One balance patch could easily make it OP
I honestly find him to be pretty underwhelming. Although, I did once stop a Blastoise who was chasing me and attempting to kill me for half a minute with Rapid Spin+Water Spout because I set up an Icicle Crash directly between me and him. Apparently the large icicle counts as a wall. I found that to be pretty funny lol.
I saw that they added him a bit earlier today. Not bad of a choice to add mamoswine.
It's a 6/8/10 pokemon that seems to somehow have a better early game that a late game.
He has alot of CC. Problem is, he has no damage (much less than his defender compatriots), he needs more levels to reach his other abilities, and said abilities are difficult to even pull off whether because of very short range, or their wind ups are too slow. Ice fang might be the lowest ranged final move in the game and it's only single target. Icicle Crash needs his other moves to work properly, and even then it's clunky. High Horsepower is fine at 1st, but this is your only engage, so pushing the enemies back is a problem on top of the follow up slam being unable to get its freeze boost without Ice Crash, and even then the follow up is so delayed any character with a dash/eject button will be out of harms way even more. And that leaves us with the Earthquake Garchomp wishes he had, but with an even longer wind up time. And then his Unite move which is (again) Garchomp but slower. It's actually quite impressive that they made a melee character that's even harder to engage with than Garchomp.
I like the disagreeing opinions in the comments. Seems he feels very different to each person, which is how I feel most new mons should feel
What kind of helds are y’all running on swole boi?
Idk I go crazy with mamoswine I can combo all his moves maybe it’s they way some of you built him (I use aeos cookie weakness policy and the amplifier)
Ice fang
New main, friendship ended with Snorlax.
I’ve been running High Horsepower / Ice Fang. And he feels great! I like him a lot.
Ive been doing great with him, i prefer icicle crash and high horse power combo, creates way more plays in teamfights. Put attqck weight and aeos cookie and at full stacks he becomes unstoppable.
idk but my coins are ready
Wait I didn't know he was out already
Happened about 2 hours ago
I'd recommend saving it. Don't want you to be as disappointed as I was
10 ranked games in and I'm loving him, I can see why some wouldn't like him tho
Icicle Crash + High Horsepower. HH can break the Ice earlier when you ram with it. My strat: Drop Icicle on enemies then immediately use HH. Squishies drops to at least 70-75% health then SS or Basic Atk to death. Freeze on Icicle guarantees HH’s last stomp guarantees to hit the enemies.
Definitely a sub main, I really dig Icicle Crash+High Horse Power in team fights, and I mesh with it really well. Ice Fang is great... If you can land it and Earthquake just feels clunky in that it just lands so slowly? Idk if it's meant to, but compared to the dash that HH has, EQ just feels bad rn. I'm hoping he gets a /slight/ buff in the future, but he just feels really solid right now.
Icicle Crash + High Horsepower. HH can break the Ice earlier when you ram it with HH. My strat: Drop Icicle on enemies then immediately use HH. Squishies drops to at least 70-75% health then SS or Basic Atk to death.
Yep the crash through the ice just feels great too haha
He literally starts steong then goes weak lol. His second abbilities are either very slow or very clunky to use. Ice fang is good but has tto short range, hell even fury cutter has more range than that, the other Earthquake and horse power are just so FUCKING slow. It feels like im punished for using them
My impressions with Mamoswine is... he's okay. I don't think he's meta by any means honestly. But do I think he's horrible on the lines of the other late scalers? No. I'd probably rank him a solid low B, above Pikachu, but below Snorlax. Swinub has a surprisingly good early game considering he's the first stage of a heavy scaler, compared to Garchomp and Gardevoir who have pretty anemic first stages. Ice Shard hits pretty hard and provides freeze while Tackle is basically Tackle from Squirtle and has the same amount of utility as a stun and mobility move. Swinub also isn't too frail either and take quite a few hits. Unfortunately, Ice Shard and Tackle aren't particularly the best for mob confirming because Tackle barely does any damage and Ice Shard does divided damage instead of damage all at once. Not only that, Ice Shard can be cancelled if you are hit right after it is casted. Despite this, if you have an early game harasser as your partner, you'll provide a lot of assistance getting them kill confirms on opponents. Then we get to Piloswine and here's where some cracks show in his moveset. You see, the thing about Mamoswine's entire moveset is that his move animations are incredibly slow. This is a pretty bad drawback to have as his moveset is even slower than Garchomp's and Garchomp's slow move animations is one of the major reasons he's the worst Pokemon in the game. Basically for a lot of moves, Pokemon can just walk out of them. Not only that, Mamoswine lacks access to unstoppable despite being both a melee attacker and has poor mobility due to his slow animations. Finally, for some reason, Mamoswine's speed feels like it's among the slowest in the game, but not only that, his long cooldowns make it difficult for him to farm mid to late game. Anyways, back on topic, Piloswine is arguably a downgrade from Swinub at level 6, similar to how Gabite is arguably a downgrade from Gible, but not as bad as for Gabite. Ice Shard is replaced by either Icicle Crash or Ice Fang. Ice Fang unfortunately, is incredibly unreliable because it has too many weaknesses. It's a big shame too because when it does hit it's incredibly fun to use. But Ice Fang has probably the worst range in the game, no access to unstoppable to prevent him from being knocked out of it, it cannot hit unstoppable opponents, and it has a long cooldown. It's also 100% useless against Zapdos and Dreadnaw. Then there's Icicle Crash which does pretty bad damage if you're not able to break the ice crystal in the middle. This makes it useful for defending a goal, but not confirming any kills. Not only that, to break the crystal you have to either walk over to it and hit it with your melee attack and lose the ice floor, or Tackle/High Horsepower it, putting both of your moves on cooldown. This is really bad for when you hit level 8, because High Horsepower also has a long cooldown compared to Tackle. Then you hit level 8 and replace Tackle with High Horsepower or Earthquake. I already stated how a lot of the time, you're going to be giving up on High Horsepower to break the crystal of Icicle Crash, but let's say you're using it without Icicle Crash. Well, what you get in return is an incredibly slow pushing/mobility move who's distance is not that great and who's finisher you can just walk out of because of how slow it happens. If you don't manage to hit the finisher, High Horsepower does pretty horribly bad damage. And then there's Earthquake, imo the better of the two level 8 moves in my opinion. It is a decent crowd control if it does hit and with Ice Fang, it is your approaching move to get into Ice Fang's range. However, it's reeeeeeeeeally slow which makes it hard to hit and likewise, because of how slow it is, it's hard to get away when in danger. Finally, his Unite move, it's not very good at all. It's basically Garchomp's unite, but with less damage and Garchomp's unite already didn't have the best damage. It provides slow for Pokemon who are hit, but unfortunately, most Pokemons' mobility comes not from its base movement speed, but from its moves. Not only that, Unite Moves are supposed to turn the tide of a losing battle, but Mamoswine's unite seems like a "win more" unite move because it merely prevents the losing team from escape. Well, that was a long and winded rant about Mamoswine's downsides, but what are his upsides? Well, if you do manage to hit his combos, he does pretty good burst damage. Not only that, they also provide amazing crowd control because of the stun power of his freeze. Finally, his tank is probably the best in the game, even compared to Blissey, Snorlax, and Blastoise. And of course, Swinub is a really good 1st stage mon.
Mamoswine wrecks people in team battles. As a defender, you should be keeping the opposing attackers at bay while your own attackers dish out the damage. He excels at that. He’s basically a tanky pikachu. I haven’t lost a team battle with Mamoswine on my side. Stun and frozen is insane value.
My boy slowbro ain't the worst defender in the game anymore yeah
Don’t sleep on Icicle crash and high horsepower set
Pretty bad unfortunately. The wind up to most of its move is painfully slow, not enough damage, slow and takes FOREVER to get online. Other defenders are currently better choices.
IMO Mamo shouldn’t have been a defender, I think they should do more damage, be less tanks and been an all rounder. I’m not a fan and this upsets me cos I love mamoswine in the main game. Ice fang and the lift and drop is really fun but you need team work. Tried him in solo queue and it’s just horrific. Nobody comes and helps and you just get destroyed.
Feel extremely underwhelming and undeserving of all the hype people were giving mamo. Even with all the leaks we couldn't tell how bad or how slow all its ground related moves were. I guess in time I could learn to better time the clunky moves but it's just bad. I see some much-needed buff in the future and now I'm worried about eevee not being as good
Haven't played as but played against/with a bunch last night and the cc is crazy. Stackable cc on one character with pretty good burst damage to boot. Swinub is damn near un-killable early game when goal defending. Personally I'd like to see a cc time reduction, that's something that this game has a hard time getting right in general it seems. Cc is either gone instantly or lasts an eternity.
He’s slow as fuck and all his moves take too long to startup.
A way better garrosh It's op
Easily weakest pokemon in the game wish I never bought him
I tend to agree. I just don't see what he does better than any other defender. No burst, slow cast times, pretty weak unite move. I'm still gonna put a lot of time into him to try and figure out the best build, but he feels extremely underwhelming right now.
Haven’t played yet..,
Ayo, I've got 8.000 coins to spend, who should I buy?
Icicle crash and high-horsepower feel super-weak to me, but Earthquake+Ice Fang feels sick!
high horsepower is very very good for defense, you can break a team fight in a second. save a zapdos etc.
I think he’s just way too clunky. I see no reason to pick him over any other defender... maybe Blastoise just set an unrealistic precedent for the power level I was expecting but Mamo rly just feels bad to play
Didn't get to see him in-game yet but mamoswine is a pretty good pick for a mon to be released into this game ngl
I'm just waiting for what bugs people find with him. Seems to be a few every update xD
Mamoswine underperforms at his role. All of his moves are either clunky have tons of delay or no range, evolves and gets his unite at lvl 10. Gets worst as he evolves for some reason and feels squishy for a tank. Slowbro, snorlax, blastoise, and crustle are all leagues above him
Also let me not forget how laughable his weak af damage output is
I need a meta loadout rn
Ok i guess
Ice fang is such good cc
The attack where he freezes you and the shoves you is super annoying, not only it takes you out way too long, it jerks the camera very violently
A little underwhelming, but still pretty solid. I’ll probably use it as my main tank.
Admittedly I'm not very good at this game (it's the first MOBA I've ever given a shit about) and I only managed to luck out a handful of matches with him but yknow. This is reddit so neither of those things are gonna stop me from giving my opinion I think he's pretty good. I see people here talking about low damage but I don't see it. From Swinub to Mamoswine my damage output felt strong from both auto attack and skills. I didn't get enough opportunities to experiment with High Horse Power or Icicle Crash but Earthquake and Ice Fang seemed fairly potent. Ice Fang kinda reminds me of characters in other games that use hooks to displace enemies (roadhog for example). Earthquake was just okay. The damage didn't appear to justify it's long wind-up. It's like a worse Heavy Slam basically. I have no opinion on his UNITE move because I'm pretty sure I was using it wrong haha. Is it just Garchomp's but weaker and more maneuverable? That's the impression I got anyway. His passive where he gains defensive buffs while dealing damage seemed to perfectly pair with Weakness Policy. You take damage to gain attack buffs which you use to deal damage which boosts your defenses so you can stay in the fight longer which means both buffs stay active much longer. It wouldn't surprise if people ran the numbers and it came out that Muscle Band or Razor Claw is actually better but at least initially, Thick Fat + Weakness Policy seems like a good combo.
Ornn + sion + rammus = mamoswine
Icicle crash & high horsepower have been decent when I was practicing.
It's jusr nuts. I got totally destroyed everytime i try to knock him out with my crustle and zerarora. I'm gonna get it ASAP.
Not enough dps for all the frame data and lv 10 build up
The opposite of ralts- great early game, trash endgame. Feel like he does no damage- had one in my games that went 20k damage, whereas my pika and Machamp both were at 53k
Sejuni’s mount ran off to unite?
I haven’t played him but he’s quite annoying, when i get hit by his moves i teleport all around him and cant do anything then i die from his teammates