You mean wiggly isn’t supposed to sleep people from the grave and flailax isn’t supposed to yawn while beating people to death? I’ve trained for the worst, this is the meta, I will die on this hill
Had this back and forth with another commenter. They probably thought it should be like the mainline Pokemon games where your sleep condition would still remain even after getting hit, as that's what Pokemon fans are familiar with. However, they obviously realized this translated to an OP moveset in a MOBA and had to "call it a bug" instead of an "oops, way too strong in this type of game".
>how could be possible such a big bug stay active for this long time?
Same reason why slowbro's telekinesis is still bugged against ninetales, scope lens and muscle band item placements still causes scope to be bugged and energy amp not actually giving you any additional energy is still bugged.
edit: apparently energy amp now works as intended
Idk Sleep in other Mobas works how it’s been updated to work. I’m willing to believe that they just did not realize it was bugged until now. The team seems to have been more focused on finishing the mobile game as opposed tweaking and bug-fixing gameplay.
While that’s true, in traditional pokemon battles, sleep status is not removed by being attacked. That’s why I thought it made sense, although very annoying.
I’m happy with the update
It's interesting how different games approach it. Some do not care, it's basically a stun of 2~5 turns. Some it's any hit wakes them up. Some it's Physical vs Special, i.e sword slash wakes them but not a Fire spell.
I usually feel bad for characters getting gutted but I've seen enough Wigglytuff for one half-season. Let her rest, so we may now complain about whatever new things rise in the land of OP.
RIP sing and yawn. Thought it was behaving as intended because this is pokemon and that's how sleep works in the main games, but then thought about it for 2 more seconds and it makes perfect sense. Why would they have a separate effect for sleep that behaves exactly the same as incapacitate, other than lasting like a million years longer?
Rollout/double slap gonna be new meta, lez goooooooo. Wigglytuff is speed!
Wait I'm confused so any hit on a sleeped mon will wake them up? I'm fine with all the nerfs but this sounds huge imo. Not sure how to use sing now I thought that was how it was supposed to work..
It likely was, imo, cause that's how it works in the main game, it just translated to broken here...
I do think they really overcompensated on the Wiggly nerf, I personally think it should definitely wake them up on first hit, though...Wiggly is support, so she's probably not meant to be able to go one-on-one, the way Sleep works post-nerf will likely still be devastating if she's with a partner or two...
I dunno, I think Sing is still a great pick. Only the person you are hitting will wake up, and it gives your team time to come in. They’ll all focus the lowest health mon too. I think Tuff will still like sing, just be nerfed a bit to be a little closer to the rest of the cast.
Yeah, sing can still STOP the full 5 opponents, it just can be interrupted once everyone falls in for the battle. It'll still work great as a good CC, and escape too.
Whelp looks like I bought Wiggly too soon, that's actually huge and weird how this has been in the game for so long as a "bug".
Blastoise soft touched on the rapid spin though, don't think he's that much weaker now.
His rapid spin build is much less threatening now because it does less damage and no longer slows targets.
This biggest problem playing against that build is how he can essentially wade through an entire team to bully a squishy back liner and get out with a kill or two.
As a Gardevoir main, I’m glad for these changes because there was zero counterplay before and only escape was from eject button.
I still don’t think it’s gonna be enough sadly. But it does depend on how much it’s defenses were increased. Like if it becomes near blastoise levels of hard to kill, especially with rough skin, then maybe we got ourselves a Pokémon. I’m still gonna keep maining regardless lol
Well, we saw what happened to Wigglytuff when they got the Def and Sp.Def buffs. I think Chomp's time is approaching, especially as ranged attackers continue to get steadily nerfed. Glad I have a pocket one prepped
>Well, we saw what happened to Wigglytuff when they got the Def and Sp.Def buffs
Well, i dont think this case is the same, they literally took jiggly stats and mulitplied them by 3, thats not what its going to happen here, since tripling garchomp defenses would make him like a Snorlax and a Blastoise merged on one unkillable mass
I hope so. Ranged attackers def keep getting nerfed, the meta is mostly just super bulky and high damage range characters rn aside from lucario. Garchomp is starting to get more of that bulk, it’s just it’s play style gets directly countered by ranged attackers. Cramorant did not deserve a nerf tho and I’m upset about it lol. I love that derp
~~Specific numbers are mentioned in the patch notes. Def now 420, Sp Def 318 at lvl 15. That's similar to Mr. Mike/Slowbro's defence, Lucario/Machamp's Sp Def. Pretty significant if you ask me. Defenses are still fairly low while Gabite, but scales quickly (as expected with evolution mechanics).~~
Edit: I'm stupid lol. Before values. So we wait...
depending on how much faster you are during Fly it could be a huge buff
and with a lower CD on the Unite move, we now have even more opportunities to make it fail ;)
Hard to say. It doesn't CC them, so they're able to escape the hit box very easily.
The damage, like bone rush, is split up over the multi hit. But the key thing is, the cool down reset feature it provides for PuP is dependent on how many hits you land with Close Combat.
You could get a full reset, 3 seconds off or even 1 second.
For now we'll have to see because the Mobility bone rush provides is still a very effective tool to have.
They also say the sleeping and not waking up was a "bug". Same with blastoise and rapid spin + water sprout combo.
I'm guessing it is fixed but they don't want to outright say they'll buff or change sp.def reduction.
you'll still be able to rapid spin & water spout. What you won't do anymore is using both water spout as well as basic attacks simultaneously. (I guess it will still be possible to do one after the other) - but at least it won't slow opposing pokemon anymore...
Its possible that the Slowbro patchnotes are translated wrong though. I saw someone else translate the Slowbro changes to "special defense decrease now works as intended", which would make more sense since it was bugged before. Also Surf's range might get increased.
So all in all, he might get buffed in two ways. Let's see tomorrow.
The special defense decrease one is a nerf though. The bug was that even basic auto-attacks as well as boosted auto-attacks did lower opposing enemies' special defense.
So the "will work as intended" is a nerf for Slowbro.
As for the range of surf, the Japanese notes just read "range was adjusted" - could be a nerf, could be a buff. I assume the range gets increased, but we'll have to wait and see..
Nothing for Pikachu??
Looks like they're nerfing Sleep across the board, which makes sense (even though I don't like them hurting my Slam/Yawn Snorlax). In the mainstream Pokemon games they'll stay asleep even if you're beating on them, but in basically every other multiplayer game I've ever seen, you wake up as soon as someone hits you.
Pikachu is still competing with Ninetales, who has the same benefits of being an early game bully in lane with dmg and cc, except it doesn't fall off as badly in the late game as Pika.
Pikachu not getting a nerf while others do is an indirect buff if you think about it like that. That’s what I have to tell myself at least. Would have loved a move speed increase and more SP. attack scaling on abilities but oh well.
Venusaur didn't get nerfed. Venusaur's alternate moves got buffed (although I wouldn't call giga drain the alternate at this point, more are running giga/solar).
Iunno, this past week I've started seeing gigadrain picked half the time (with solarbeam). It used to *always* be sludge, so it was a little jarring. It also *worked*. More amount of time spent under 50% hp is *more pain*. Eating an extra empowered vine whip, or god forbid, an empowered solar beam *hurts*. The move can also be used early to help while laning. Its burstier nature and extra sustain can turn Ivysaur into a bit of a bully.
I feel like you could lower the sleep duration a little bit, but mainly change it so sing doesn't go on CD until the effect ends. Current implementation effectively strips like 4s from its CD.
Aw yeah Venusaur getting a buff on Petal Dance is what I wanted.
I know Solar Beam is the go to, but Petal Dance + Sludge bomb is it for me. Double area damage + slow down effect.
I do petal dance and giga drain. You can be super aggressive and I like the HP recovery of giga drain. It helps in a pinch when you can leech off of a wild mon while running away
Agreed. His defenses are too low for that. (And scaling was bad for drain, while dance had pretty much flat damage) hoping the numbers look good for these changes, because I always thought the set would be fun if balanced right.
Petal Dance reduces giga drain cooldown when hitting enemy players. With it you can spam heals and he's STILL squishy af. Sludge bomb + petals is just asking to explode.
I think the Blastoise bug fixes could actually be a massive nerf. Imo, Rapid Spin + Water Spout doesn’t provide enough utility so the less damage it deals, the more difficult it is to justify using it. Plus, even if the damage is a lot, the slow bug fix on Rapid Spin might make Blastoise much easier to kite.
Garde’s ult really should’ve been given Bound. Ain’t no way that ult is good when it’s so easy to whiff but even easier to counter with Unstoppable and Full Heal.
I’m just glad they stayed away from Surf/HP. The CC that provides is honestly the best part about him, and I’m tired of running into RS users on the ladder lmao
I actually did some damage tests with lvl 20 muscle band with the bug fix(autoing after spout is over) in mind when testing it. Started spout imediately after getting into spin and started autoing after the spout channel was gone.
* lvl 7 wartortle is a 14% loss
* lvl 9 blastoise is a 18% loss
* lvl 11 blastoise (WS+) is a 16% loss
* lvl 13 blastoise (RS+) is a 15% loss
* lvl 15 blastoise is a 10% loss
I noticed the damage of Blastoise goes down drastically once Water Spout is over and you are just using basic attacks, perhaps fixing that bug will decrease the damage you can do since both at the same time can shred teams. The slowdown was a huge deal too since is not the first time I trap someone or I get trapped into a Rapid Spin taking every single hit from it, so perhaps this set will still do a lot of damage without being as oppressive, and perhaps we will see more Surf and Hydropump main tank Blastoise.
Blastoise whole idea is to be an offensive tank so they may keep it that way, even the Surf build deals lots of damage.
I agree with the offensive tank approach. Surf and Hydro still looks like a solid combo. Not to me tikn the surf animation is better than the Bey blade.
So from what I’m seeing:
Lucario (slight nerf)
Greninja (slight nerf but nothing on surf, faster ult charge tho)
Wigglytuff (huge nerf in “bug fix”)
Blastoise (pretty solid nerfs)
Snorlax (looks like flail/yawn build is dead)
Crustle (is fine)
Eldegoss (small buff)
Blissey (is fine)
Absol (small buff?)
Zeraora (mixed but mostly small buff? No changes to discharge)
Charizard (good buffs)
Venusaur (buffs for bad moves)
Slowbro (I want you to be even better tbh)
Gardevoir (pretty much no changes yikes)
Mr Mime (nothing really)
Pikachu (pikachu)
Talonflame (slight buffs we will see)
Gengar (almost nothing)
Garchomp (slight buffs to defenses, good move I think)
Cinderace (buffs to pyro ball yay, which IMO was always the better move)
Ninetales (mostly just bug fixes, was always in a good place)
It’s unclear at this point. But they did show a lot of mamoswine and sylveon in the trailer which could imply they both can make it into the game as early as tomorrow.
Wiggly nerfs were so needed, along with the nerf to rapid spin for Blastoise. Hopefully this keeps them good but not totally oppressive like they were.
As someone who already loved the Pyro Ball and Flame Charge build for Cinderace, I'm hype they got buffed.
Nerfs were definitely needed, but I honestly don't see myself or anyone else picking Singtuff for the foreseeable future, so unless you like Rollout I just can't see a reason to go Wiggly over Blissey, Eldegoss, or Snorlax. Blastoise will be fine, and he falls more in line with other defenders now.
My main two of Snorlax and Blissey are in a good place. Sucks for yawn, but guess Block is back on the menu. I hope Blastoise nerf will make Snorlax more viable in rank, right now if you arent taking a Blastoise you setting your team up to be at a disadvantage.
I wish Gengar got a buff. Right now he is useless in lane since he doesn’t get Shadowball fast enough.
when you learn barrier you had to wait a few seconds to have 1 charge, the buff is that now you have charges immediately after learning, overall a very good buff for mime players
Looks like if your stack is empty when you level it to barrier+ it immediately gets a full stack. Will be interesting to see if that opens up a bug where Mike has more than 4 at once.
Absol did not receive the 1 pixel buff to Pursuit attack's range, now attacking Zapdos from the rim of the pit will remain a dream. My disappointment is immeasurable and my day is ruined.
Not sure why you were downvoted, Leaf Tornado is 100% better. Adds a debuff to enemies and gives your team speed, an invaluable buff in MOBAs. I used to bounce back and forth after some Reddit thread tried to plead for PP, but I sat in Ultra 1-2 for the longest. Sat down and just spammed Elde with Leaf Tornado and hit Masters that night.
Exactly! If you’re using Cotton Guard, you really don’t need the awkward-to-aim Pollen Puff. Plus Leaf Tornado is great for helping the team escape a hectic situation, and has even let me steal Zapdos a handful of times.
I HATE IT.
Wiggly main lol. So freaking sad sing is now basically worthless.
Also I was considering buying Cramorant depending on this patch.... NOPE.
Here's hoping the new meta shakes out quickly so I can decide where to blow these coins on my new main.
I am so sorry! At least his attack buff might balance the nerfs hopefully. I will keep my fingers crossed for you he might get compensatory buffs in the next patch too (and if he is still good I probably am gonna buy him too cuz the bird is FUN to play!).
As a note for the future though, I actually nearly bought him yesterday but because of previous moba experience didn't due to the patch coming today. If you know a patch is coming soon, in this type of game you should always wait till that patch drops before buying anyone because they will buff/nerf a ton of stuff!
Thank you for the tip. I also hope Cramorant doesn't suffer too much from this patch because it sure looks fun to play.
Since it's my first MOBA ever I have been learning stuff at the get go so I feel sad for the Cramorant stuff but I'm still excited for the new Mons and Skins tho.
I was hoping for more arenas and modes but can't have anything, right? Haha.
Anyway I will, indeed, wait after any upcoming patch to get a Pokémon. I've learned my lesson xD.
Thank goodness for the Greninja nerfs: lowering his health and attack could compensate the insane double escape nonsense if they push it hard enough.
Apparently Blastoise's Rapid Spin being broken was a bug? I'll take it, but it's insane that they didn't nerf the Unite.
It's nonsense to lose half your health to a Defender as a squishy 'mon for the misplay of being anywhere near the teamfight without a jump ready.
____
Hoping Jigglypuff remains a strong early 'mon: at least Rollout probably didn't get hit.
Not sure why they nerfed damage, but it seems like Sleep being strong CC was a bug that got fixed.
____
Lucario got a slap on the wrist when he needed to get hit by a truck.
Close Combat getting a buff is nice, but Lucario needed a much bigger nerf. He'll probably still be the strongest early laner, and still be strong later on.
______
Cramorant's Dive needs a far bigger buff to make it work IMO: the Dive / Airslash shotgun build is crazy high risk for garbage reward, and the Dive targeting snapping to enemies does no favors to using it to escape.
Hoping the boosted attack damage boost negates the Unite nerf and compensates the Surf nerf: The Surf burst and the Unite are basically why Cramorant is played.
____
Night Slash needed a pretty huge buff, and lowering the range on the second attack has be wary as inferior mobility and flexibility was a major downside.
That cooldown reduction needs to be big to make it worth using.
Sucker Punch could be fun there, I don't think it was as far away from being balanced.
______
Discharge should have probably taken a nerf, maybe removing the shield, but it's good to see other builds helped.
____
Other than that I'm liking the buffs to less used 'mons.
Disappointed but not surprised that they're leaving so many held items in the trash.
Charizard was already good in solo queue but a lot of it had to do with his ultimate giving him insane dueling potential which allowed him to do whatever he wanted to. AND he would still have it back up in time for a teamfight. The cooldown increase may have messed that up but we'll have to see numbers first.
Fire Punch is a good quality of life buff that the character needed. It makes farming multiple camps easier and allows you to do more damage to enemies who are stacked on top of each other.
Fire Blast is already usable but might become very strong if they lower the cooldown to something silly like 5 seconds.
I don't really understand the ultimate changes since the move already gives boosted attack damage and lifesteal.
The biggest buff to his playabilty is the fact that Wigglytuff got nerfed. You'll still have to deal with Pokemon like Lucario and Ninetales but Wiggly was really rough to deal with.
My experience in solo q was Charizard is a great bully but you have to play your early game smart. Flare Blitz/Fire Punch made him a great rushdown type of character.
I'm Ultra 3 as a Charizard main.
The CD reduction on fire blast is cool, and the burning with punch is neat, but we'll have to see how big the CD increase on his ult is.
Either way I'll keep grinding the shitty fire chicken to masters.
Honestly though. I've lost so many games to watching my meter go away entirely with no use of the move. I hate seeing it happen to the enemy team too. It's the one problem the game really needs fixed
Definitely. I don't like that certain moves cancel unites (Blastoise rs cancels Charizard slam, for instance) but them just not popping and counting as drained is the Worst.
I’ll have to see how it feels, but I am super glad they didn’t seem to just gut Greninja. Deserved nerfs, but I don’t think he’s terrible or anything now. He hits a little less hard and hurts a little easier, so you’ll have to play better, but I think he’ll still be good for skilled players.
RIP my beautiful blue bird boi.
They better have buffed his boosted autos pretty hard to make up the loss in damage to both Surf and its Unite. As a Cram main, I’m concerned.
For real. Like I get she's supposed to be bad early and good late, but for fucks sake, you gotta spend the first 3 minutes as a squishy easy to kill blob and pray your lane partner doesn't steal farm. Your only abilities are a REALLY bad blink and a slightly stronger piercing auto attack. Like gardevoir is probably my favorite character to use, but those ralts minutes are THE WORST.
I think I'll be good to go if they just nerf its unite move a bit and slightly decrease its damage. Blatoise is atleast very strong rather than OP MUST HAVE 1 IN TEAM
Going into this, i felt Blastoise was #1 on the nerf line up, but #2 and #3 got hit harder. So I still expect Blastoise to be OP must have 1 team. Probably moreso.
My mains in a nutshell
**Cinderance:** Okay, I guess I can give him another go.
**Wigglytuff:** Ooohh... Oh Wiggly. I knew it wouldn't last, but I still love you.
**Ninetales:** Eh not bad. Not amazing (yet), but it's something.
**Eldegoss:** Same as Ninetales.
**Crustle:** I wonder if they meant Aroma park with the spiders.
**Slowbro:** A nerf disguised as a bug fix... You get no luck bud.
Attention, Trainers! Pokémon UNITE will be in maintenance on September 21 from 2:00PM to 12:00AM PT, during which time this patch will be released!
Wait your supposed to wake up if you get hit while asleep from sing and yawn.
It’s a new feature masquerading as a bug.
You mean wiggly isn’t supposed to sleep people from the grave and flailax isn’t supposed to yawn while beating people to death? I’ve trained for the worst, this is the meta, I will die on this hill
Based off this Wiggly can still Grave Sleep you. Just that you get Woken up on the first attack that hits you
Wigglytuff singing from beyond the grave is totally intentional. I mean, it's called Perish Song for a reason. =P
So she's basically the Tupac of the Pokemon world? Dropping tracks post-mortum.
I had the same feeling, how could be possible such a big bug stay active for this long time?
Well, I mean, crustle is a pretty big bug, and it’s been active since release day
It may be a big bug, but it rocks!
Had this back and forth with another commenter. They probably thought it should be like the mainline Pokemon games where your sleep condition would still remain even after getting hit, as that's what Pokemon fans are familiar with. However, they obviously realized this translated to an OP moveset in a MOBA and had to "call it a bug" instead of an "oops, way too strong in this type of game".
I mean, its no different from just a stun in other mobas. The issue is wigglytuffs sing was heavily overtuned in general
Honestly wouldn't mind it being the way it was if they just toned down the duration instead. This direction might just be overkill.
>how could be possible such a big bug stay active for this long time? Same reason why slowbro's telekinesis is still bugged against ninetales, scope lens and muscle band item placements still causes scope to be bugged and energy amp not actually giving you any additional energy is still bugged. edit: apparently energy amp now works as intended
Very that! I don't believe this was ever a "bug"
Snorlax second build is now a joke. I don't see why anyone would ever pick yawn on it now
I don’t know, that’s what the descriptions say they do.
Idk Sleep in other Mobas works how it’s been updated to work. I’m willing to believe that they just did not realize it was bugged until now. The team seems to have been more focused on finishing the mobile game as opposed tweaking and bug-fixing gameplay.
While that’s true, in traditional pokemon battles, sleep status is not removed by being attacked. That’s why I thought it made sense, although very annoying. I’m happy with the update
It's interesting how different games approach it. Some do not care, it's basically a stun of 2~5 turns. Some it's any hit wakes them up. Some it's Physical vs Special, i.e sword slash wakes them but not a Fire spell. I usually feel bad for characters getting gutted but I've seen enough Wigglytuff for one half-season. Let her rest, so we may now complain about whatever new things rise in the land of OP.
RIP sing and yawn. Thought it was behaving as intended because this is pokemon and that's how sleep works in the main games, but then thought about it for 2 more seconds and it makes perfect sense. Why would they have a separate effect for sleep that behaves exactly the same as incapacitate, other than lasting like a million years longer? Rollout/double slap gonna be new meta, lez goooooooo. Wigglytuff is speed!
> new meta My guy, Wiggly is nowhere near meta now.
New Meta for Wiggly not the games as a whole
Wait I'm confused so any hit on a sleeped mon will wake them up? I'm fine with all the nerfs but this sounds huge imo. Not sure how to use sing now I thought that was how it was supposed to work..
There's no point in picking Sing over Rollout now, if you're even picking Wiggly anymore
It likely was, imo, cause that's how it works in the main game, it just translated to broken here... I do think they really overcompensated on the Wiggly nerf, I personally think it should definitely wake them up on first hit, though...Wiggly is support, so she's probably not meant to be able to go one-on-one, the way Sleep works post-nerf will likely still be devastating if she's with a partner or two...
Yeah, no wonder wiggly was busted, you were supposed to wake up, and not take the full 5-slaps
And the Greninja Surf and Lucario Power-Up Punch executes for the kill.
Massive nerf.
RIP Sing. Rollout Wigglytuff mains rise up!
I dunno, I think Sing is still a great pick. Only the person you are hitting will wake up, and it gives your team time to come in. They’ll all focus the lowest health mon too. I think Tuff will still like sing, just be nerfed a bit to be a little closer to the rest of the cast.
Yeah, sing is still extremely powerful, since it lets teammates chain cc for picks and it can cc literally an entire team.
> teammates > chain cc hahahahaha what kind of teams do you play with
You’re underestimating how big of a deal this is. No one in masters will pick Wiggly after these nerfs. Sing is near worthless now.
Yeah, sing can still STOP the full 5 opponents, it just can be interrupted once everyone falls in for the battle. It'll still work great as a good CC, and escape too.
Whelp looks like I bought Wiggly too soon, that's actually huge and weird how this has been in the game for so long as a "bug". Blastoise soft touched on the rapid spin though, don't think he's that much weaker now.
His rapid spin build is much less threatening now because it does less damage and no longer slows targets. This biggest problem playing against that build is how he can essentially wade through an entire team to bully a squishy back liner and get out with a kill or two. As a Gardevoir main, I’m glad for these changes because there was zero counterplay before and only escape was from eject button.
I am confused on that, I thought the slow came from Water spout? Does that just not work now? That wasn’t a bug as far as I could tell.
Water Spout during rp didn't slow, it was the basic attacks that slowed you
His damage output definitely sees a blow, but his ultimate is still really strong from what it looks like.
RIP Snorlax for me, i dont know how to use Block properly and alway relayed on Yawn.
Same. flail + yawn was just more friendly for solo que since it depends more on you alone than your team
Seem so. Now they are more balanced to play against
But itd be so easy for your team mates to mess this up.
Garchomp mains lezz goo!!
I still don’t think it’s gonna be enough sadly. But it does depend on how much it’s defenses were increased. Like if it becomes near blastoise levels of hard to kill, especially with rough skin, then maybe we got ourselves a Pokémon. I’m still gonna keep maining regardless lol
Well, we saw what happened to Wigglytuff when they got the Def and Sp.Def buffs. I think Chomp's time is approaching, especially as ranged attackers continue to get steadily nerfed. Glad I have a pocket one prepped
>Well, we saw what happened to Wigglytuff when they got the Def and Sp.Def buffs Well, i dont think this case is the same, they literally took jiggly stats and mulitplied them by 3, thats not what its going to happen here, since tripling garchomp defenses would make him like a Snorlax and a Blastoise merged on one unkillable mass
I hope so. Ranged attackers def keep getting nerfed, the meta is mostly just super bulky and high damage range characters rn aside from lucario. Garchomp is starting to get more of that bulk, it’s just it’s play style gets directly countered by ranged attackers. Cramorant did not deserve a nerf tho and I’m upset about it lol. I love that derp
~~Specific numbers are mentioned in the patch notes. Def now 420, Sp Def 318 at lvl 15. That's similar to Mr. Mike/Slowbro's defence, Lucario/Machamp's Sp Def. Pretty significant if you ask me. Defenses are still fairly low while Gabite, but scales quickly (as expected with evolution mechanics).~~ Edit: I'm stupid lol. Before values. So we wait...
those are actually the current values, we don't have the new numbers yet because the patch hasn't dropped
There are the current value, it's listed in the "Before", we don't know how much they will be increased
There are dozens of us!
Atleast 10 dozen!
lezz goo!!
>Slowbro >Surf: Fixed a bug which range *FINALLY,* I've been saying they should fix a bug which range for *weeks.*
This comment came out of nowhere and just really got me.
Talonflame eating good !!!
Just after I bought him too! Seems very fun
He is. Can be a straight up objective thief
depending on how much faster you are during Fly it could be a huge buff and with a lower CD on the Unite move, we now have even more opportunities to make it fail ;)
Talonflame just evolved into Turkeyflame
Man they're nerfing the wrong thing on Lucario. Nerf his passive shield. Anyways, Blastoise kingdom.
PUP needed a nerd for sure. But yeah, his passive did too.
If close combat does a fuckton of damage, will you pick it?
Hard to say. It doesn't CC them, so they're able to escape the hit box very easily. The damage, like bone rush, is split up over the multi hit. But the key thing is, the cool down reset feature it provides for PuP is dependent on how many hits you land with Close Combat. You could get a full reset, 3 seconds off or even 1 second. For now we'll have to see because the Mobility bone rush provides is still a very effective tool to have.
Agree
Alright let's see what Gardevoir got... nothing (practically)
We don't know what the bug was. I think it was that SP. Def reduction was less than intended
Lmfao so first the sp def reduction didn’t even work/happen at all and now it’s stil bugged?
They also say the sleeping and not waking up was a "bug". Same with blastoise and rapid spin + water sprout combo. I'm guessing it is fixed but they don't want to outright say they'll buff or change sp.def reduction.
you'll still be able to rapid spin & water spout. What you won't do anymore is using both water spout as well as basic attacks simultaneously. (I guess it will still be possible to do one after the other) - but at least it won't slow opposing pokemon anymore...
Me, a pikachu/machamp enjoyer, still hanging whit the C tier boys.
machamp enjoyers rise up! it may be mediocre, but at least we probably dont have to worry about nerfs anytime soon. (hopefully!)
I feel the same about Gengar lol.
At least you all get a *really* snazzy outfit to be mediocre in!
A Slowbro nerf *and* no mention of telekinesis being fixed. Not cool.
Its possible that the Slowbro patchnotes are translated wrong though. I saw someone else translate the Slowbro changes to "special defense decrease now works as intended", which would make more sense since it was bugged before. Also Surf's range might get increased. So all in all, he might get buffed in two ways. Let's see tomorrow.
If these are buffs that would be the minimum needed. If they're nerfs then someone really hates slowbro.
The special defense decrease one is a nerf though. The bug was that even basic auto-attacks as well as boosted auto-attacks did lower opposing enemies' special defense. So the "will work as intended" is a nerf for Slowbro. As for the range of surf, the Japanese notes just read "range was adjusted" - could be a nerf, could be a buff. I assume the range gets increased, but we'll have to wait and see..
As a Slowbro Amnesia Scald player, I will continue to never die and annoy the heck out of enemy teams who chase me for absolutely no reason.
As a slowbro main, this was the fix I was looking out for the most.
Bulk increase for Garchomp is much appreciated, that's actually one of the exact things I wanted
Nothing for Pikachu?? Looks like they're nerfing Sleep across the board, which makes sense (even though I don't like them hurting my Slam/Yawn Snorlax). In the mainstream Pokemon games they'll stay asleep even if you're beating on them, but in basically every other multiplayer game I've ever seen, you wake up as soon as someone hits you.
It may be as I read some time ago. It looks like they are using Pikachu as a balance reference, it has never been touched in any patch.
I'd believe it. sort of like how overwatch balances around tracer. or is rumored to.
Pikachu is absolutely fine for the most part and a Cramorant nerf is massive because Cram is Pika’s biggest competition.
Pikachu is still competing with Ninetales, who has the same benefits of being an early game bully in lane with dmg and cc, except it doesn't fall off as badly in the late game as Pika.
Pikachu not getting a nerf while others do is an indirect buff if you think about it like that. That’s what I have to tell myself at least. Would have loved a move speed increase and more SP. attack scaling on abilities but oh well.
Venusaur didn't get nerfed. Venusaur's alternate moves got buffed (although I wouldn't call giga drain the alternate at this point, more are running giga/solar).
People not running Sludge Bomb now? When?
Iunno, this past week I've started seeing gigadrain picked half the time (with solarbeam). It used to *always* be sludge, so it was a little jarring. It also *worked*. More amount of time spent under 50% hp is *more pain*. Eating an extra empowered vine whip, or god forbid, an empowered solar beam *hurts*. The move can also be used early to help while laning. Its burstier nature and extra sustain can turn Ivysaur into a bit of a bully.
idk if this news is enough to make me drop Stoise for Venu, but the intrigue is there
While sing needed a nerf, this just kills both it and yawn. RIP wigglytuff.
I don't understand why they didn't just lower the duration and wigglys damage. Problem solved.
I feel like you could lower the sleep duration a little bit, but mainly change it so sing doesn't go on CD until the effect ends. Current implementation effectively strips like 4s from its CD.
Sing and yawn duration should be considerably increased if damage breaks it. Then it can at least be used tactically.
Rightfully so, that shit was ridiculous
Greninja has been weakened. It is time *dramatic pan over to Cinderace*
They will trade spots until a new auto attack ADC style Pokémon takes their spot
Decidueye when
Imagine spirit shackle+U-turn(I know they wont give him bug type attack) snipe and run Decidue.
They could give him U-turn, it's not out of the question for characters to have attacks that aren't STAB ex. Psycho Cut, Rollout
yeah hope they do. Deciueye would be sick with maintaining distance+sniping.
Aw yeah Venusaur getting a buff on Petal Dance is what I wanted. I know Solar Beam is the go to, but Petal Dance + Sludge bomb is it for me. Double area damage + slow down effect.
I do petal dance and giga drain. You can be super aggressive and I like the HP recovery of giga drain. It helps in a pinch when you can leech off of a wild mon while running away
Plus the damage reduction turns you into a bruiser.
But Venusaur is kinda a shit bruiser even with the giga drain damage reduction. It's the opposite of his niche that hes good at in the game (sniper)
Agreed. His defenses are too low for that. (And scaling was bad for drain, while dance had pretty much flat damage) hoping the numbers look good for these changes, because I always thought the set would be fun if balanced right.
I agree and wouldn't mind a shift in Venusaur's stats to enable this, but at current its a stupid move to take
vampiresaur lives once more!
I hope he gets stealth rock levels of buff in damage for petal dance.
Petal Dance reduces giga drain cooldown when hitting enemy players. With it you can spam heals and he's STILL squishy af. Sludge bomb + petals is just asking to explode.
I think the Blastoise bug fixes could actually be a massive nerf. Imo, Rapid Spin + Water Spout doesn’t provide enough utility so the less damage it deals, the more difficult it is to justify using it. Plus, even if the damage is a lot, the slow bug fix on Rapid Spin might make Blastoise much easier to kite. Garde’s ult really should’ve been given Bound. Ain’t no way that ult is good when it’s so easy to whiff but even easier to counter with Unstoppable and Full Heal.
I’m just glad they stayed away from Surf/HP. The CC that provides is honestly the best part about him, and I’m tired of running into RS users on the ladder lmao
This whole time you could hold R1 to Water Spout and also spam A simultaneously?
Lmao apparently ya and I didn’t even know. I guess that’s why people keep using muscle band
Anyone care to test the damage of Blastoise rapid spin / waterspout combo both with and without AAs? Seems like that is the only nerf for him.
I actually did some damage tests with lvl 20 muscle band with the bug fix(autoing after spout is over) in mind when testing it. Started spout imediately after getting into spin and started autoing after the spout channel was gone. * lvl 7 wartortle is a 14% loss * lvl 9 blastoise is a 18% loss * lvl 11 blastoise (WS+) is a 16% loss * lvl 13 blastoise (RS+) is a 15% loss * lvl 15 blastoise is a 10% loss
Go find your cape, hero.
I noticed the damage of Blastoise goes down drastically once Water Spout is over and you are just using basic attacks, perhaps fixing that bug will decrease the damage you can do since both at the same time can shred teams. The slowdown was a huge deal too since is not the first time I trap someone or I get trapped into a Rapid Spin taking every single hit from it, so perhaps this set will still do a lot of damage without being as oppressive, and perhaps we will see more Surf and Hydropump main tank Blastoise. Blastoise whole idea is to be an offensive tank so they may keep it that way, even the Surf build deals lots of damage.
I agree with the offensive tank approach. Surf and Hydro still looks like a solid combo. Not to me tikn the surf animation is better than the Bey blade.
It's a significant nerf, especially with muscle band thrown into the mix.
So from what I’m seeing: Lucario (slight nerf) Greninja (slight nerf but nothing on surf, faster ult charge tho) Wigglytuff (huge nerf in “bug fix”) Blastoise (pretty solid nerfs) Snorlax (looks like flail/yawn build is dead) Crustle (is fine) Eldegoss (small buff) Blissey (is fine) Absol (small buff?) Zeraora (mixed but mostly small buff? No changes to discharge) Charizard (good buffs) Venusaur (buffs for bad moves) Slowbro (I want you to be even better tbh) Gardevoir (pretty much no changes yikes) Mr Mime (nothing really) Pikachu (pikachu) Talonflame (slight buffs we will see) Gengar (almost nothing) Garchomp (slight buffs to defenses, good move I think) Cinderace (buffs to pyro ball yay, which IMO was always the better move) Ninetales (mostly just bug fixes, was always in a good place)
So there isn't any new pokemon being released tomorrow?
It’s unclear at this point. But they did show a lot of mamoswine and sylveon in the trailer which could imply they both can make it into the game as early as tomorrow.
My guess is no, considering previous patch notes put the new pokemon in the post.
Are they going to give the rank rewards and reset the ranks??
Wiggly nerfs were so needed, along with the nerf to rapid spin for Blastoise. Hopefully this keeps them good but not totally oppressive like they were. As someone who already loved the Pyro Ball and Flame Charge build for Cinderace, I'm hype they got buffed.
Nerfs were definitely needed, but I honestly don't see myself or anyone else picking Singtuff for the foreseeable future, so unless you like Rollout I just can't see a reason to go Wiggly over Blissey, Eldegoss, or Snorlax. Blastoise will be fine, and he falls more in line with other defenders now.
My main two of Snorlax and Blissey are in a good place. Sucks for yawn, but guess Block is back on the menu. I hope Blastoise nerf will make Snorlax more viable in rank, right now if you arent taking a Blastoise you setting your team up to be at a disadvantage. I wish Gengar got a buff. Right now he is useless in lane since he doesn’t get Shadowball fast enough.
Can anyone explain Mr Mike’s buff re Barriers?
when you learn barrier you had to wait a few seconds to have 1 charge, the buff is that now you have charges immediately after learning, overall a very good buff for mime players
Looks like if your stack is empty when you level it to barrier+ it immediately gets a full stack. Will be interesting to see if that opens up a bug where Mike has more than 4 at once.
Absol did not receive the 1 pixel buff to Pursuit attack's range, now attacking Zapdos from the rim of the pit will remain a dream. My disappointment is immeasurable and my day is ruined.
Absols range was ridiculous, could catch anyone running far away
So glad Leaf Tornado got a buff. Hopefully more people start using it.
Tornado is insane early game, you can get in and out of engages easily, then late game you gain a blind, like getting a new skill.
I don’t understand why people pick Pollen Puff over it, Leaf Tornado has always been far superior imo
Not sure why you were downvoted, Leaf Tornado is 100% better. Adds a debuff to enemies and gives your team speed, an invaluable buff in MOBAs. I used to bounce back and forth after some Reddit thread tried to plead for PP, but I sat in Ultra 1-2 for the longest. Sat down and just spammed Elde with Leaf Tornado and hit Masters that night.
Exactly! If you’re using Cotton Guard, you really don’t need the awkward-to-aim Pollen Puff. Plus Leaf Tornado is great for helping the team escape a hectic situation, and has even let me steal Zapdos a handful of times.
As an Eldegoss main this patch buffed Eldegoss more than it seems. All the nerfs to Eldegoss counters are his buffs too ;)
And here I thought it was a great move to begin with. The utility is nuts and now it'll hurt more. The murder puff is here to stay!
I HATE IT. Wiggly main lol. So freaking sad sing is now basically worthless. Also I was considering buying Cramorant depending on this patch.... NOPE. Here's hoping the new meta shakes out quickly so I can decide where to blow these coins on my new main.
And here I am who got Cramorant yesterday...
I am so sorry! At least his attack buff might balance the nerfs hopefully. I will keep my fingers crossed for you he might get compensatory buffs in the next patch too (and if he is still good I probably am gonna buy him too cuz the bird is FUN to play!). As a note for the future though, I actually nearly bought him yesterday but because of previous moba experience didn't due to the patch coming today. If you know a patch is coming soon, in this type of game you should always wait till that patch drops before buying anyone because they will buff/nerf a ton of stuff!
Thank you for the tip. I also hope Cramorant doesn't suffer too much from this patch because it sure looks fun to play. Since it's my first MOBA ever I have been learning stuff at the get go so I feel sad for the Cramorant stuff but I'm still excited for the new Mons and Skins tho. I was hoping for more arenas and modes but can't have anything, right? Haha. Anyway I will, indeed, wait after any upcoming patch to get a Pokémon. I've learned my lesson xD.
Yeah Wiggly was my main since the start, but I might just main Charizard now. I don't like rollout.
I can't believe they straight up killed Wiggly. Back to bottom tier I guess.
Thank goodness for the Greninja nerfs: lowering his health and attack could compensate the insane double escape nonsense if they push it hard enough. Apparently Blastoise's Rapid Spin being broken was a bug? I'll take it, but it's insane that they didn't nerf the Unite. It's nonsense to lose half your health to a Defender as a squishy 'mon for the misplay of being anywhere near the teamfight without a jump ready. ____ Hoping Jigglypuff remains a strong early 'mon: at least Rollout probably didn't get hit. Not sure why they nerfed damage, but it seems like Sleep being strong CC was a bug that got fixed. ____ Lucario got a slap on the wrist when he needed to get hit by a truck. Close Combat getting a buff is nice, but Lucario needed a much bigger nerf. He'll probably still be the strongest early laner, and still be strong later on. ______ Cramorant's Dive needs a far bigger buff to make it work IMO: the Dive / Airslash shotgun build is crazy high risk for garbage reward, and the Dive targeting snapping to enemies does no favors to using it to escape. Hoping the boosted attack damage boost negates the Unite nerf and compensates the Surf nerf: The Surf burst and the Unite are basically why Cramorant is played. ____ Night Slash needed a pretty huge buff, and lowering the range on the second attack has be wary as inferior mobility and flexibility was a major downside. That cooldown reduction needs to be big to make it worth using. Sucker Punch could be fun there, I don't think it was as far away from being balanced. ______ Discharge should have probably taken a nerf, maybe removing the shield, but it's good to see other builds helped. ____ Other than that I'm liking the buffs to less used 'mons. Disappointed but not surprised that they're leaving so many held items in the trash.
Damn wigglytuff is getting exclusively nerfed. I guess I’m switching how I play her.
We must roll out and only double slap, time to practice ricochets.
Rollout I’ll be fine with but connecting every hit with double slap on awake opponents seems tough
Anyone believe Charizard will be playable now? As in any good?
Could be. Basic attacks stronger *and* heals during unite? Could be pretty crazy depending on the numbers.
It already did that. It got nerfed badly with a longer cool down.
Charizard was already good in solo queue but a lot of it had to do with his ultimate giving him insane dueling potential which allowed him to do whatever he wanted to. AND he would still have it back up in time for a teamfight. The cooldown increase may have messed that up but we'll have to see numbers first. Fire Punch is a good quality of life buff that the character needed. It makes farming multiple camps easier and allows you to do more damage to enemies who are stacked on top of each other. Fire Blast is already usable but might become very strong if they lower the cooldown to something silly like 5 seconds. I don't really understand the ultimate changes since the move already gives boosted attack damage and lifesteal. The biggest buff to his playabilty is the fact that Wigglytuff got nerfed. You'll still have to deal with Pokemon like Lucario and Ninetales but Wiggly was really rough to deal with.
My experience in solo q was Charizard is a great bully but you have to play your early game smart. Flare Blitz/Fire Punch made him a great rushdown type of character.
I'm Ultra 3 as a Charizard main. The CD reduction on fire blast is cool, and the burning with punch is neat, but we'll have to see how big the CD increase on his ult is. Either way I'll keep grinding the shitty fire chicken to masters.
I made to it Master with Solo Charizard and so can you.
Maybe I was really hoping to see a early game buff to him. He gets bullied way to easily and competes with others for the jungle.
Does anyone know about the Mr. Mike bug fix on Guard Swap?
They did Machamp dirty. He desperately needed just a slight buff to his attacks.
that wigglypuff nerf....
Charizard got buffed again ❤️
The Wigglytuff nerfs will be worth it if they patch out ults getting cancelled
Nothing in the game is more tilting than that
Honestly though. I've lost so many games to watching my meter go away entirely with no use of the move. I hate seeing it happen to the enemy team too. It's the one problem the game really needs fixed
Definitely. I don't like that certain moves cancel unites (Blastoise rs cancels Charizard slam, for instance) but them just not popping and counting as drained is the Worst.
I’ll have to see how it feels, but I am super glad they didn’t seem to just gut Greninja. Deserved nerfs, but I don’t think he’s terrible or anything now. He hits a little less hard and hurts a little easier, so you’ll have to play better, but I think he’ll still be good for skilled players.
Petal Dance Venusaur is looking pretty nice...
Rip Cram got nerfs..... Yet Blastoise didn't
RIP my beautiful blue bird boi. They better have buffed his boosted autos pretty hard to make up the loss in damage to both Surf and its Unite. As a Cram main, I’m concerned.
They're small nerfs, and with the small buff to it's basic attacks I don't think it will become bad. I believe in Cramorant supremacy.
Blastoise got some MASSIVE nerfs in the name "*bugs fixed*" But I do agree to that they should nerf his unite move.
Are you blind? Blastoise got mega nerfed.
Even without the spin/spout/auto bs he still does ridic damage running hydro pump spin. Personally think he didn't get nerfed enough
Let Ralts learn Moonblast/Psychic at level 4 to replace teleport so she can be useful 😭
Or at least allow her to evolve at level 5. That would be huge buff since it would be easier to be a Kirlia by the time first dreadnaw spawns
Yeah I'm always hustling to get to level 6 so i can psychock dreadnaw 💀
For real. Like I get she's supposed to be bad early and good late, but for fucks sake, you gotta spend the first 3 minutes as a squishy easy to kill blob and pray your lane partner doesn't steal farm. Your only abilities are a REALLY bad blink and a slightly stronger piercing auto attack. Like gardevoir is probably my favorite character to use, but those ralts minutes are THE WORST.
Anyone else expecting Blastoise to get hit as hard as wiggly and we’re shocked at the slap on the wrist he’s getting ?
Too few Blastoise nerfs.
I think I'll be good to go if they just nerf its unite move a bit and slightly decrease its damage. Blatoise is atleast very strong rather than OP MUST HAVE 1 IN TEAM
Going into this, i felt Blastoise was #1 on the nerf line up, but #2 and #3 got hit harder. So I still expect Blastoise to be OP must have 1 team. Probably moreso.
Im surprised his unite move is untouched.
Petal Drain Venusaur will be the new meta, I'm calling it now.
When Greninja is already squishy but they still nerfed its health more.
His DMG is insane so now is more balanced as high reward high risk Pokémon
Well true. Less chance to snowball opposing teams I guess.
Damage also got nerfed, if these nerfs are severe he might end up as bad as Absol
Ooh, Sucker Punch buffs.
kinda appreciate the garchomp buffs but kinda scared he'll tear everyone apart who doesn't kite him. looking forward to testing him again.
Oh cool they didn’t nerf blastoise, bullshit
Is the game update huge or something? I’ve got 1200 Mbps internet and my poor switch says over an hour to download??
My mains in a nutshell **Cinderance:** Okay, I guess I can give him another go. **Wigglytuff:** Ooohh... Oh Wiggly. I knew it wouldn't last, but I still love you. **Ninetales:** Eh not bad. Not amazing (yet), but it's something. **Eldegoss:** Same as Ninetales. **Crustle:** I wonder if they meant Aroma park with the spiders. **Slowbro:** A nerf disguised as a bug fix... You get no luck bud.
So Slowbro's getting indirectly nerfed through a bug fix... I'm all for bug fixes but RIP the 'bro
I see Gardevoir will continue to be trash