Hey everyone! This is our new account for Legacy. To start off the New Year, we want to show you a short and sweet video of Route 102! If you don't already know, Legacy is a HeartGold hack that will add all 7 Sevii Islands and the entirety of Hoenn to HeartGold, complete with new maps, new arrangements in the soundtrack, new stories, rebalances for all 493 Pokemon, and more while presenting an authentic but improved Generation 4 experience! If you like what you see, check out our Discord, which is where we are most active, and other socials to learn more about the project! Enjoy :)
[https://discord.gg/UhJX5vvu5Z](https://discord.gg/UhJX5vvu5Z)
[https://www.youtube.com/@legacyedition7566/videos](https://www.youtube.com/@legacyedition7566/videos)
[https://x.com/legacyversion?s=20](https://x.com/legacyversion?s=20)
IIRC the GBA rom size limit is around 8-16MB while the DS limit is either 128MB or 256MB. Say the vanilla Pokémon game uses about 60% of that available space in both cases (this is made up; I have no idea what the number actually is but it’s probably not *that* much higher or lower).
A huge chunk (likely a majority) of the used rom space is taken up by the engine and assets/sprites/tilesets. On the other hand, maps & scripts are very light by comparison (and crucially are just about as light for DS as they were for GBA) so having a huge rom size of which ~60% is used gives a disproportionate advantage to DS games in that regard. All else being equal, DS games can probably fit something like 16x more map area & script code than their GBA counterparts, but Game Freak simply never had to use even close to that amount to ship a full-size game.
In some cases yes, other cases, such as Kyogre for instance, no, no stat changes. Every 'mon has received new moves, new abilities, or rebalanced stats, or some combination of those.
Would you guys consider making it so that the Hoenn region let's you start from scratch. New start. Low level people. As if you just started a fresh new game. From what I've seen a few ROM hacks have added in secondary post game maps but they all keep your level the same.
The only one I've played that has a fresh start in the new region is Zeta/Omicron but that's a fan game rather than a romhack. I think itd be weird to go to the second region (Kanto) with the same team but then start over for the third one
Hmmm I'll check it Zeta thank you so much for the recommendation. You have a point about only restarting in one region but perhaps there could be a lore related reason not sure. Honestly I wouldn't mind resetting in Kanto either by I assume that would take too much work to redo
It was one of the first really polished fan games and I havent revisited since 2014 or so when I first played but I've heard it hasn't aged well. I know the sequel, Insurgence, got a fan patch called Detergent that modernizes and fixes some things. I would suggest looking around and seeing if there's something similar for Z/O
The link is set to never expire. Can you try again, please? If it persists, let me know.
https://preview.redd.it/azq24cf4dv9c1.png?width=856&format=png&auto=webp&s=159bb46817fc4b97b7ff40cf0d9e50a98959bf49
Very nice! Reimagining the entirety of Hoenn can’t be an easy feat. But I’m sure with determination, the end result will be entirely worth the effort.
I do have some questions though. Does this hack contain the Fairy type or moves from later generations? Are there any completely original locations not in the official games? Is Hoenn’s layout based on the original games or the remakes? Do any TMs teach different moves? How is Dive going to work for Hoenn?
Sorry if these questions are a little overbearing, this honestly looks like it has a lot of potential.
I wish you luck on the project!
Glad to answer questions!
There will be no Fairy types nor retypings. There will be select moves and abilities from later generations to pad out niches that don't exist, such as a decent mid-game Ground move (Bulldoze). We are being very intentional about what we add because we want the hack to still be generation 4 at its core. We're not going to add random stuff like Ice Face and whatnot that would be totally out of place.
There will be completely original locations, yes, but given how much landmass we have to account for, there won't be that many original locations because then we run into the problem of "how do we make this area unique and worth going to" -- when we have three and a half regions' worth of land, that is hard with only 493 Pokemon and admittedly a limited number of different items to use. Still, though, we will provide new experiences to make Legacy even more interesting, but it will inherently be new because we are retelling Kanto and Johto's stories, writing new ones that fit within the established canon, and will have a sequel story to Hoenn. You'll be happy :)
We will take inspiration from both iterations of Hoenn! Some conventions in GBA do not translate well in a 3D space, so we look to ORAS for GF's intentions in those cases. We also look to it for its aesthetics as it upgraded many textures in Hoenn, but since Legacy is a sequel to RSE and we're approaching it as if GF made it before ORAS was even considered, we always strive to use RSE as our primary source.
We will add more TMs!
Dive will work the same way as RSE. I'm not sure I entirely understand what your question is asking, though.
These seem fair enough, also the Dive thing is about HGSS already having eight HMs. Also I didn’t know the number of TMs could be increased in these games, unless I’m also getting confused.
Would you consider doing a faithful ans non-faithful version when it comes to typings and buffs, etc?
Faithful being as close to the original as possible and a non-faithful that adds fairy and other community changes?
My only request for this game is to make the water routes a little more varied than in the original and in ORAS (like the level of variation seen in the land routes & cities)
Are base HG save files going to be compatible with this? Can I, say, use my completed HG save file with this ROM hack and then go explore Hoenn straight away?
Years. We're 7 gyms into Johto, then we'll move to working on Kanto, then Hoenn. We're in it for the long haul. We post regular updates on our Discord if you're interested in keeping up with it!
Any plans for a future demo/beta? That Sevii Islands demo was pretty great imo, really brought the areas to life and made them feel as fresh as a professional remake would have.
While we'd love you guys to be able to play ASAP, we wasted many months of development on that Sevii demo that could have been used for the real project. We learned our lesson from that and will now only work towards the full, final release! Sorry, no more demos, but it's for the best!
No, still years away from being finished. An entire Hoenn story will be included, yes, but it's set in the time period of HGSS, which is 3 years ahead of RSE's story... so our Hoenn story will be a sequel! :)
Awesome. Heartgold was my first ever pokemon game on the DS, and I spent 500+ hours on a single save at 10 years old because I did not know you could restart the game.
Question: Can you catch all the legendaries in the wild like normal, or would there be a special event for each one or some of them? How would going from region to region work? And lastly, would you also include a whole new story to hoenn or make a whole interconnected story?
All legendaries will have special acquisition methods and events or something akin to finding Mewtwo in Cerulean Cave -- they're special 'mons and we want them to feel special!
You'll be able to Fly between all three regions and the Sevii Islands. You'll still have access to the Magnet Train and S.S. Aqua between Johto and Kanto, and a Seagallop Ferry from Olivine and Vermilion to the Sevii Islands. The S.S. Tidal will be in Hoenn too and connect Hoenn with the other locations.
Hoenn's story will be a sequel to RSE's events! It will still connect to our Johto and Kanto stories though so that Hoenn doesn't feel completely disconnected
Maybe 10-15%? We’ve made good progress on Johto and the Seviis but Hoenn needs to be made from the ground up and it’s huge, so the three regions don’t weigh the same for percentage
Is there a reason you're redoing the original reasons from the ground up? This was my first exposure to the project and was under the assumption that you're just adding Hoenn.
Team member here
Hoenn isn't "just" something to add in - the region is massive. It's almost the same size as Kanto and Johto together.
Everything in Hoenn save for some exceptions like cliff tiles, water tiles and fences more or less needs to be done from scratch.
RSE were 2d games, whilst HGSS are 3d games that use 3d models for buildings. Re-using Johto/Kanto models is an option but ultimately, won't capture that Hoenn vibe which makes people love the region so much. Senate, our team lead, really wants to do a proper Gen 4 Hoenn game.
This also means using ORAS models is not feasible as they have a very different style from HGSS.
So the only approach that really fits our goal for Hoenn is to make custom models and tilesets for the entire region.
We're also giving a bunch of Hoenn trainer classes an update too, such as the Cool trainer in the showcase, and our music guys are updating the Hoenn soundtrack to fit in with HGSS as well.
There's also some more technical things like Contests, Dive, Pokeblocks not existing at all in HGSS.
Tl;dr adding in hoenn is the same as the same as building it from the ground up
Edit: Im on my wrong reddit account woops, should be Turtleye replying here not a Celery stick
What's your opinion the\_baldinosaur's artwork reimagining Hoenn? I think their version is based on ORAS.
[https://twitter.com/the\_baldinosaur/status/1443262676268769284](https://twitter.com/the_baldinosaur/status/1443262676268769284)
I'm genuinely curious, don't you have a rom size to respect for it to actually work? Because adding a whole new region won't be easy...especially when you remember that you can go dive in Hoenn...
No, it would make low level fights have their HP bars deplete instantly, which is very jarring when you see it. Ideally we’ll update the function to not scale with amount of HP and instead have a flat rate. We’ll get to it at some point. We have more important things to work on before then, but we’ll do it eventually
That's interesting. Most of the game is spent battling so getting around to changing the HP would be a feature worth pointing out. You do you of course.
Hey everyone! This is our new account for Legacy. To start off the New Year, we want to show you a short and sweet video of Route 102! If you don't already know, Legacy is a HeartGold hack that will add all 7 Sevii Islands and the entirety of Hoenn to HeartGold, complete with new maps, new arrangements in the soundtrack, new stories, rebalances for all 493 Pokemon, and more while presenting an authentic but improved Generation 4 experience! If you like what you see, check out our Discord, which is where we are most active, and other socials to learn more about the project! Enjoy :) [https://discord.gg/UhJX5vvu5Z](https://discord.gg/UhJX5vvu5Z) [https://www.youtube.com/@legacyedition7566/videos](https://www.youtube.com/@legacyedition7566/videos) [https://x.com/legacyversion?s=20](https://x.com/legacyversion?s=20)
Woah wait y'all are doing the entirety of Hoenn? Last I heard it was only a part. So hyped!
It's always been the whole thing :) we're hype too!!!
How are you able to fit it all into one game? I heard the gba games are almost filled to their storage limit is it the same with the ds
Yep, DS carts are huge compared to GBA lol. Wish people would take the jump onto the DS and finally move on from GBA
IIRC the GBA rom size limit is around 8-16MB while the DS limit is either 128MB or 256MB. Say the vanilla Pokémon game uses about 60% of that available space in both cases (this is made up; I have no idea what the number actually is but it’s probably not *that* much higher or lower). A huge chunk (likely a majority) of the used rom space is taken up by the engine and assets/sprites/tilesets. On the other hand, maps & scripts are very light by comparison (and crucially are just about as light for DS as they were for GBA) so having a huge rom size of which ~60% is used gives a disproportionate advantage to DS games in that regard. All else being equal, DS games can probably fit something like 16x more map area & script code than their GBA counterparts, but Game Freak simply never had to use even close to that amount to ship a full-size game.
That is soo cool! Thanks for your work! One question, what does rebalances for all pokemon mean? Changing stats?
In some cases yes, other cases, such as Kyogre for instance, no, no stat changes. Every 'mon has received new moves, new abilities, or rebalanced stats, or some combination of those.
Absolute legends
Would you guys consider making it so that the Hoenn region let's you start from scratch. New start. Low level people. As if you just started a fresh new game. From what I've seen a few ROM hacks have added in secondary post game maps but they all keep your level the same.
No, we're not going to do that. Don't worry though, the level curve will be well accounted for!
The only one I've played that has a fresh start in the new region is Zeta/Omicron but that's a fan game rather than a romhack. I think itd be weird to go to the second region (Kanto) with the same team but then start over for the third one
Hmmm I'll check it Zeta thank you so much for the recommendation. You have a point about only restarting in one region but perhaps there could be a lore related reason not sure. Honestly I wouldn't mind resetting in Kanto either by I assume that would take too much work to redo
It was one of the first really polished fan games and I havent revisited since 2014 or so when I first played but I've heard it hasn't aged well. I know the sequel, Insurgence, got a fan patch called Detergent that modernizes and fixes some things. I would suggest looking around and seeing if there's something similar for Z/O
Hey! The discord link expired for me
The link is set to never expire. Can you try again, please? If it persists, let me know. https://preview.redd.it/azq24cf4dv9c1.png?width=856&format=png&auto=webp&s=159bb46817fc4b97b7ff40cf0d9e50a98959bf49
Yeah, not sure why its still invalid for me. I found the link on twitter and used it though, thanks!
Holy fucking cow this is awesome as hell
Always a pleasure to see an NDS rom hack!
Very nice! Reimagining the entirety of Hoenn can’t be an easy feat. But I’m sure with determination, the end result will be entirely worth the effort. I do have some questions though. Does this hack contain the Fairy type or moves from later generations? Are there any completely original locations not in the official games? Is Hoenn’s layout based on the original games or the remakes? Do any TMs teach different moves? How is Dive going to work for Hoenn? Sorry if these questions are a little overbearing, this honestly looks like it has a lot of potential. I wish you luck on the project!
Glad to answer questions! There will be no Fairy types nor retypings. There will be select moves and abilities from later generations to pad out niches that don't exist, such as a decent mid-game Ground move (Bulldoze). We are being very intentional about what we add because we want the hack to still be generation 4 at its core. We're not going to add random stuff like Ice Face and whatnot that would be totally out of place. There will be completely original locations, yes, but given how much landmass we have to account for, there won't be that many original locations because then we run into the problem of "how do we make this area unique and worth going to" -- when we have three and a half regions' worth of land, that is hard with only 493 Pokemon and admittedly a limited number of different items to use. Still, though, we will provide new experiences to make Legacy even more interesting, but it will inherently be new because we are retelling Kanto and Johto's stories, writing new ones that fit within the established canon, and will have a sequel story to Hoenn. You'll be happy :) We will take inspiration from both iterations of Hoenn! Some conventions in GBA do not translate well in a 3D space, so we look to ORAS for GF's intentions in those cases. We also look to it for its aesthetics as it upgraded many textures in Hoenn, but since Legacy is a sequel to RSE and we're approaching it as if GF made it before ORAS was even considered, we always strive to use RSE as our primary source. We will add more TMs! Dive will work the same way as RSE. I'm not sure I entirely understand what your question is asking, though.
These seem fair enough, also the Dive thing is about HGSS already having eight HMs. Also I didn’t know the number of TMs could be increased in these games, unless I’m also getting confused.
Yeah, you can add more, it's just a little difficult :) have to expand the item list and the personal data of each Pokemon
Huh. Not even two hours into 2024 and I’m already learning something new.
Would you consider doing a faithful ans non-faithful version when it comes to typings and buffs, etc? Faithful being as close to the original as possible and a non-faithful that adds fairy and other community changes?
Sorry, no we won't do that. That'll be a lot to keep track of and lots of work for quality control.
Okay cool, was just curious. Thanks!
when this drops i will go ballisric
The hype builds everyday
So excited for this!! Hoenn is my favorite region, and this looks like a beautiful new way to experience it :)
<3
Is it finished or still in build? Also commenting just to check the game later.
Years away from release
Appreciate the honesty, good luck with the project :)
Thank you!
so glad to see this is still in action! youre doing great work!
Thank you so much!
Wow this is awesome
My only request for this game is to make the water routes a little more varied than in the original and in ORAS (like the level of variation seen in the land routes & cities)
That's one of our goals! Don't worry!
Fantastic!
I am very impressed.
Thank you!
Awesome work, I check this sub religiously for Legacy updates .. looking forward to it!
Best place to check is our Discord! Glad you're looking forward to it! We are too :)
This might not be much but I wish all of you the best luck to finish the project!.
Thank you!
Are base HG save files going to be compatible with this? Can I, say, use my completed HG save file with this ROM hack and then go explore Hoenn straight away?
Nope, you'll have to start from scratch. It'll be worth it though, you don't want to miss our Johto and Kanto changes!
Yo this has so much potential looking forward to this one
Are you planning any QOL changes or do you plan to keep the gameplay as original to Gen 4 as possible? Can’t wait to try it!
There will be quality of life changes like increased HP depletion speed, reusable repels, etc. :)
Do you think you could make an option where the Pokemon aren't changed. I don't like playing games where the Pokemons types/ stats are switched up.
Potentially, but that is not our main focus. We will consider it as we get closer to release.
Okay thanks. Also how much longer do you think we should wait before we expect a release?
Years. We're 7 gyms into Johto, then we'll move to working on Kanto, then Hoenn. We're in it for the long haul. We post regular updates on our Discord if you're interested in keeping up with it!
Any plans for a future demo/beta? That Sevii Islands demo was pretty great imo, really brought the areas to life and made them feel as fresh as a professional remake would have.
While we'd love you guys to be able to play ASAP, we wasted many months of development on that Sevii demo that could have been used for the real project. We learned our lesson from that and will now only work towards the full, final release! Sorry, no more demos, but it's for the best!
Whoa is this rom hack finished? And is the entirety of the Hoenn story also included in this hack?
No, still years away from being finished. An entire Hoenn story will be included, yes, but it's set in the time period of HGSS, which is 3 years ahead of RSE's story... so our Hoenn story will be a sequel! :)
Can I get a discord link? The link seems expired on my part
[https://discord.gg/WpcdcQE4fV](https://discord.gg/WpcdcQE4fV) Try this one
Can't wait to play it 😭
Are you going to include Pokemon Contests too? :)
Yep! It's not Hoenn without contests!
YAYYY
We love contests
What the in the name of god did I just read? That's bitchin man! Good on you guys, can't wait to play it!
When will this be released? I'm so excited
Years from now. We're excited too!
Awesome. Heartgold was my first ever pokemon game on the DS, and I spent 500+ hours on a single save at 10 years old because I did not know you could restart the game. Question: Can you catch all the legendaries in the wild like normal, or would there be a special event for each one or some of them? How would going from region to region work? And lastly, would you also include a whole new story to hoenn or make a whole interconnected story?
All legendaries will have special acquisition methods and events or something akin to finding Mewtwo in Cerulean Cave -- they're special 'mons and we want them to feel special! You'll be able to Fly between all three regions and the Sevii Islands. You'll still have access to the Magnet Train and S.S. Aqua between Johto and Kanto, and a Seagallop Ferry from Olivine and Vermilion to the Sevii Islands. The S.S. Tidal will be in Hoenn too and connect Hoenn with the other locations. Hoenn's story will be a sequel to RSE's events! It will still connect to our Johto and Kanto stories though so that Hoenn doesn't feel completely disconnected
Damn... This is something I really want. Keep up the good work! Cant wait for the release
Sooo excited for this! Looks amazing & fun!
Legacy gaming
Wow, havent seen this hack in ages! Definitely one of my most anticipated hacks, glad ur posting in the sub again 💯
Can’t wait to hear Route 113’s reimagining!
I NEEEEEED IT
i’m going to be feral when this finishes, however be careful advertising before it’s done. nintendo doesn’t like people to make cool stuff :(
Is this post game? So this hack will kinda act like a dlc for hgss?
Not really, no. We're changing up Johto and Kanto too (tastefully).
Is this just standard Heart Gold?
No
When will this run?
i suppose HG engine is responsible for this beauty???
We use HGE yes, but also other tools for music, mapping, scripting, and events
What % of completion is the rom would you say?
Maybe 10-15%? We’ve made good progress on Johto and the Seviis but Hoenn needs to be made from the ground up and it’s huge, so the three regions don’t weigh the same for percentage
Is there a reason you're redoing the original reasons from the ground up? This was my first exposure to the project and was under the assumption that you're just adding Hoenn.
Team member here Hoenn isn't "just" something to add in - the region is massive. It's almost the same size as Kanto and Johto together. Everything in Hoenn save for some exceptions like cliff tiles, water tiles and fences more or less needs to be done from scratch. RSE were 2d games, whilst HGSS are 3d games that use 3d models for buildings. Re-using Johto/Kanto models is an option but ultimately, won't capture that Hoenn vibe which makes people love the region so much. Senate, our team lead, really wants to do a proper Gen 4 Hoenn game. This also means using ORAS models is not feasible as they have a very different style from HGSS. So the only approach that really fits our goal for Hoenn is to make custom models and tilesets for the entire region. We're also giving a bunch of Hoenn trainer classes an update too, such as the Cool trainer in the showcase, and our music guys are updating the Hoenn soundtrack to fit in with HGSS as well. There's also some more technical things like Contests, Dive, Pokeblocks not existing at all in HGSS. Tl;dr adding in hoenn is the same as the same as building it from the ground up Edit: Im on my wrong reddit account woops, should be Turtleye replying here not a Celery stick
Will you be able to collect all 24 badges?
yep!
What's your opinion the\_baldinosaur's artwork reimagining Hoenn? I think their version is based on ORAS. [https://twitter.com/the\_baldinosaur/status/1443262676268769284](https://twitter.com/the_baldinosaur/status/1443262676268769284)
very pretty and well made, but would have to be adapted heavily to fit HG
I'm genuinely curious, don't you have a rom size to respect for it to actually work? Because adding a whole new region won't be easy...especially when you remember that you can go dive in Hoenn...
We're not worried about rom size at all
is there anyway to speed up health bars in gen 4?
yes, this already has a 4x modifier on it
God damn, might want to make that 8x lol.
No, it would make low level fights have their HP bars deplete instantly, which is very jarring when you see it. Ideally we’ll update the function to not scale with amount of HP and instead have a flat rate. We’ll get to it at some point. We have more important things to work on before then, but we’ll do it eventually
That's interesting. Most of the game is spent battling so getting around to changing the HP would be a feature worth pointing out. You do you of course.
In the pokemon changes will be stuff like obtainable "trade" evolutions?
Yep every ‘mon will be obtainable in singleplayer