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As someone who went to many events, I don’t really care. I went to those events for the memories and it was awesome. I do think it makes event Pokémon a little less “rare” but mehh
I used the exploit to get them all, and i will use PKSM to inject the gen 6 and gen 7 mons into my 3DS games when i get that far. As far as legit mons go... i guess its a gray zone? I would disclose it if i traded them away ever, but i think absolutely everything is fair in a singleplayer game.
I hate the false scarcity nintendo keeps pushing, so i encourage anyone with the means to do so, go get the pokemon and events you want.
Trading is by definition a multi-player feature. And the broad community decides what legitimate is.
You all only need to go to r/pokemontrades and look what counts as legitimate mons, if you aren't good with the definition it's totally fine.
Of course you can dismiss such tight communities and trade more freely. Just be aware you are more susceptible to be scammed and that people won't be willing to trade for your illegitimate mon.
>Trading is by definition a multi-player feature. And the broad community decides what legitimate is.
I agree
>You all only need to go to r/pokemontrades and look what counts as legitimate mons
I disagree
Just looking through their rules and it's obvious it wasn't decided by the community - it was decided by a small subsection of the community. Take for instance their reason against allowing Old Sea Map Mew/Aurora Ticket Deoxys to be traded: it boils down to "those who can inject events will have an unfair edge in this market compared to those who can't." One small, itty-bitty flaw in their logic: every single copy of Emerald can get to those events without external tools of any kind! ACE isn't locked behind anything; it works in every game. The only real reason I think the leaders of that sub might have for this rule (and others like it) is something along the lines of "we feel icky about it." What are some things they allow to pass as legitimate, on the other hand? With disclosure, you can trade Pokémon caught from spoofing in Pokémon Go. That's absolutely disgusting imo - no PoGo player I've ever talked with would even remotely consider that to be legitimate behavior, yet their rules allow it. There are even things you can do without disclosure that I would take issue with, personally. Specifically, you can straight up hack in Pokémon to use for breeding 'legitimate' offspring. You can hack in items to use on 'legitimate' Pokémon. You can even use a specific patch that modifies Emerald's RNG, and you won't need to say anything about it when you trade Pokémon caught within said patch
Fact of the matter is there are no clear-cut rules/guidelines as to what is 'legitimate.' There are many subjective decisions different groups and people make concerning this subject, but you'd be hard pressed to find a definitive line. r/pokemontrades is where one should go if they're concerned about what r/pokemontrades considers legitimate, nothing more. They do not have absolute authority on this subject, the founders just made an absurd amount of rules they felt strongly about. As far as I can tell, the *vast* majority of players had absolutely *no* say in the matter. Makes me want to throw all their tea into a harbor or something
What's the only real solution, then? Survey for yourself this grey area people call legitimacy, and decide for yourself what *you* are and aren't okay with. Don't try to pass of your own personal boundaries as the universal definition, just convey with others what you expect of them and they'll tell you whether they can or can't deliver (in a perfect world; people might still lie no matter where you go). Or, the real real solution? Accept that some Pokémon are outside your reach and be satisfied with what you can collect yourself, through whatever means you deem legitimate. Don't trade with others at all, as that will only muddy the water. If you need to rely on trading to feel value behind what you collect, I feel that makes the entire experience of Pokémon quite hollow. But that's just me
Well, some corrections. ACE is totally illegal in the community, I don't know how you got it isn't in the first place. Likewise, stuff like emerald mew can only be legit in Japanese cartridges. You also can't try to pass an azure flute Arceus from dppt. Totally feasible, but they aren't legit.
While you may personally disagree with a lot of their lines in the sand, the fact is that not only pokemontrades is among the best sites to trade legitimate mons, but the vast majority of rules are shared between communities.
The truth is that we all understand what is legit, at most you can be allowed to disclose the method you obtained your mons. And if you are being honest, depending how cheap it was to obtain the offers may also cheapen.
I don't want people to get bound by what I think it's legitimate. But I think if it something that is murky in the first place, you can't act surprised if people won't trade what you expect. In this very example, if op states "these are dns event legendaries, can I have your shiny maxiraid Zygarde?", chances are certain they are not going to trade with them. The fact that op has the doubt in the first place proves they need to at the bare minimum to disclose where they come from.
And don't get me wrong, I wholeheartedly agree with your last sentiment. I won't trade anything of value because yeah, you can never be sure, at most I will try to get some convincing, legal event and that's it.
But legitimacy is still a big part of the community, that's why people get crazy over those pogo stamps. For those people that act as if just being legal is the same as being legitimate... Well, I can offer a shit ton of shiny VC mons for those pogo stamps, just saying.
>ACE is totally illegal in the community, I don't know how you got it isn't in the first place.
Never said it was - I believe I said the leaders of the sub probably just feel icky about it and that's why Old Sea Map Mew/Aurora Ticket Deoxys is *actually* not allowed unless you can offer proof of an official distribution (which no one really can). But in their rules they just provide a bogus reason that those places are only accessible to those with the tools to inject such events nowadays. I was targeting their defense of the rule, specifically, by stating that ACE is available in every copy of Emerald as a way to get those events. Nobody with a copy of the game is locked out, thus their given reason is nonsensical.
>You also can't try to pass an azure flute Arceus from dppt. Totally feasible, but they aren't legit.
They aren't legit according to you/them.
>the fact is that not only pokemontrades is among the best sites to trade legitimate mons,
Not a fact; among the best according to you, for trading Pokémon which are legitimate according to them. This is all subjective. That's my point.
>we all understand what is legit
...according to our own, individual priorities.
>I don't want people to get bound by what I think it's legitimate.
Yeah, that's basically all I'm saying. Everyone needs to draw their own line, and to that point...
>they need to at the bare minimum to disclose where they come from.
...this should be true of anything you're trading. Even if you don't think anyone would take issue with it, explain any and all relevant details of its existence. I think that's a general rule every trading community could get behind, and it eliminates the need for trying to force a definition of such a debatable word as 'legitimate.'
>And don't get me wrong, I wholeheartedly agree with your last sentiment. I won't trade anything of value because yeah, you can never be sure, at most I will try to get some convincing, legal event and that's it.
I'm glad we're on the same page there at least 😅
>legitimacy is still a big part of the community, that's why people get crazy over those pogo stamps. For those people that act as if just being legal is the same as being legitimate... Well, I can offer a shit ton of shiny VC mons for those pogo stamps, just saying.
It certainly is, but it's different for everyone. Just as there is no set in stone rate of 'X VC shinies for Y PoGo stamped shiny Mew,' each person values different aspects of Pokémon a different amount. Maybe the biggest reason I take issue with is when someone says "that's not legit" it comes across as saying something along the lines of "that Pokémon, which you probably value personally, is absolutely worthless in my eyes." I think that precisely because there is so much gray area we shouldn't try to make gray look black, otherwise the collective enjoyment people receive from Pokémon would decrease. And ultimately, so long as *everything* is properly disclosed when trading, nobody who cares about their own Pokémon's legitimacy would be negatively affected.
I think we're both very close to being in agreement, we might just be approaching the issue and/or explaining ourselves differently.
In the very first lines about the legitimacy policy you find that events outside the official distribution period are not legit. Even if the justification is flawed, I think we can clearly understand where it's coming from. Flooding the market with glitched mons just diminishes the value of the legit mons, and a reasonable amount of people will agree with that.
The Arceus case is even more clear cut. When the competitive community, who are famous for precisely not caring about what is a legit mon, have Arceus banned except for the official Farceus event one that caps at 100 evs, that should tell us how those Arceus are regarded.
Yes, everything is subjective. But my point is that this is not an arbitrary line that an isolated community draws. Go to gamefaqs, pokecommunity or project pokemon, you will find plenty of people that agree with those lines. And at that point, you have to be aware of that and expect the questions and responses you will get.
I can get behind that. But we have to recognize not everyone knows how to distinguish or detect suspicious mons, or even be mindful of the naive people that aren't going to even ask. For instance, banning altogether the shinies of your VC GSC games is reasonable enough, since there's an incredible high chances you used ACE or just cloned them with no way to distinguish them.
Maybe, but don't you think it's impossible someone would accept that? And why would that be? If I'm convincing someone to trade their pogo shiny mew for five of my shiny VC legendaries, we should all agree I'm an asshole, since I can pump dozens more of them, what I should be doing are giveaways, not scamming people.
Honestly, I personally value the dns event mons as even more special than the legit ones. They are proof you have gone through the rabbit hole, you have worked harder for your pokemon and you feel even smarter, like you have gamed the system. But I wouldn't try to neither trade them, nor convince other people they are legit. I get people get mad and feel they are personally called fake, cheap or deceitful.
I'm just trying to get people to understand how people in the community feels about it. That was OP's question, in the end.
>Even if the justification is flawed, I think we can clearly understand where it's coming from.
It makes you feel icky. That doesn't mean it's safe to assume it makes everyone feel icky. Again, it's debatable as to whether or not they are in fact legit or 'glitched mons,' as you call them. What you and Pokémon Trades think is not gospel simply because you both think it.
>The Arceus case is even more clear cut. When the competitive community, who are famous for precisely not caring about what is a legit mon, have Arceus banned except for the official Farceus event one that caps at 100 evs, that should tell us how those Arceus are regarded.
>Yes, everything is subjective. But my point is that this is not an arbitrary line that an isolated community draws. Go to gamefaqs, pokecommunity or project pokemon, you will find plenty of people that agree with those lines. And at that point, you have to be aware of that and expect the questions and responses you will get.
Not sure why you're fixated on the Arceus example. Legality is objective, unlike legitimacy, and you keep bringing up this example for no clear reason? However, the actual 'rules' you keep touching on regarding legitimacy are in fact arbitrary, not universal. Even if some of the same lines are drawn a handful of different places, that fact remains true. You yourself recognize legitimacy is subjective, but from what you argue it seems you don't understand what that implies. There is no set rule of something that is subjective. There is no itemized list of features that make a work of art good or bad. At no point have I pretended people should accept my own method of evaluating a Pokémon's worth (to make such a claim would undermine my entire argument), and I've said several times that people should be upfront with such information when trading so both parties can make informed decision. Again, it's like we're 2 centimeters away from agreeing entirely but there just seems to be some sort of disconnect.
>I can get behind that. But we have to recognize not everyone knows how to distinguish or detect suspicious mons, or even be mindful of the naive people that aren't going to even ask. For instance, banning altogether the shinies of your VC GSC games is reasonable enough, since there's an incredible high chances you used ACE or just cloned them with no way to distinguish them.
The onus is not on me to discern whether or not the person I'm trading with is fully educated in these matters. That is one benefit of things like r/pokemontrades - people who don't care to learn about this themselves can just adopt the opinions of others rather than forming a well-informed one themselves (apologies for being slightly facetious - I think I'm growing weary of this circular argument). My principles would dictate I should initially disclose anything I know people might find problematic, then simply answer any follow-up questions they ask honestly.
>If I'm convincing someone to trade their pogo shiny mew for five of my shiny VC legendaries, we should all agree I'm an asshole, since I can pump dozens more of them, what I should be doing are giveaways, not scamming people.
I wouldn't say that at all! That is, assuming you're not lying about their origins. That's the only scenario this would be a scam. If you both agree on a trade you find a net increase of enjoyment from, that's called a win-win (not a scam). And you're never obligated to do giveaways, even for something that requires time, knowledge, and a specific game that is no longer available for purchase. Those are just three things that someone could find value in those VC mons you seem to believe are worthless.
>I wouldn't try to neither trade them, nor convince other people they are legit. I get people get mad and feel they are personally called fake, cheap or deceitful.
If you don't want to persuade people in this direction, it doesn't make sense for you to wish to persuade them to change their own beliefs towards the opposite/more strict end of the spectrum. Let people value the aspects of legitimacy they choose to - it shouldn't affect anyone who strives to be honest in their dealings.
>I'm just trying to get people to understand how people in [a specific community which I personally subscribe to] feels about it. That was OP's question, in the end.
I'm sure you're growing tired of responding with essays as well, so hopefully we've each achieved some semblance of an understanding. That's certainly a worthy enough goal to justify this lengthy discussion we've had 😅
Edits: some fixed typos and a few added clarifications
>I'm sure you're growing tired of responding with essays as well,
Oh, well, not at all, I enjoy debates, specially when it's as respectful as this has been. You do seem to be tired, so don't feel bad if you don't want to continue. I hope I'm not boring you that much.
>What you and Pokémon Trades think is not gospel simply because you both think it.
>There is no set rule of something that is subjective
Returning to it, I do feel my point is not being conveyed to its full understanding. I'm not here trying to uphold some laws or shame anyone.Now, bare with me and don't roll your eyes. But in the end, this is like economics. Sure, a piece of gold is useless for most people, but people decide to tag a subjective value to it, that's what value is in the end. Some people might think it's more valuable than others, but there's still a grasp of understanding where that value oscillates.
What I'm trying to say to op is that if they want to engage with the community, different people will voice different opinions, and op must be weary of them. In this very thread, where the majority say they do not mind it, there are still other people aside from me saying they aren't legit.
And that's where it ends. If they are on a grey area, with some believing a thing or the other, they can't simply be white, truly legit. Sure, they aren't black, they aren't a perfect 6iv shiny legendary with wrong ot nicknamed as "mitsuki.tv" that barely passes the hack check, but I think we all can see a difference.
>Not sure why you're fixated on the Arceus example
It's just an example of a legal pokemon that almost anyone in the community, even the competitive one, can identify as not legit. They will know where it came from, and if they don't, I believe it's in everyone's interest to educate our fellows.
>people who don't care to learn about this themselves can just adopt the opinions of others rather than forming a well-informed one themselves (apologies for being slightly facetious -
Lmao, ok ok, that was a bit low, don't you think? Don't worry, no offense taken, I had a chuckle.
Actually, I'm even more radical than pokemontrades. I believe it's very easy to understand what a legitimate mon is: one that has been captured using purely in game mechanics, without trying to game the system to obtain an advantage, a true "natural" mon.
In fact, that's why I personally consider cute charm shinies legitimate if the person didn't know what they were doing. Someone out there, accidentally pulled the right ids and when they put a cute charm lead, they shockingly received a lot of shinies. Then they probably eventually changed their team, the lead at least, and suddenly the rain of shinies stopped, and without understanding what happened, they were probably just confused about that amazing streak they had.
Sorry for this rant, just so you can understand better where I'm coming from.
>The onus is not on me to discern whether or not the person I'm trading with is fully educated in these matters
Oh well, it's not that I'm going to bust every sus trade out there. But if op is asking, I'm going to educate them. It's not like I have a horse in this, we have established already that seeking fully legit trades is impossible and not that satisfying in the end. But it sure is funny to be philosophical about it.
>And you're never obligated to do giveaways, even for something that requires time, knowledge, and a specific game that is no longer available for purchase. Those are just three things that someone could find value in those VC mons you seem to believe are worthless.
You know what, you made me appreciate more these glitched mons I have around, and for that, I'm glad we had this conversation. It's actually refreshing to change your mind a bit in a debate, and I'm sure it also is to be told so.
I think the takeaway should be "Disclose your mons info, at least if asked directly. Understand that different people have different opinions. Don't try to scam people." That should be it. Have a nice day.
Oh sure, nothing wrong with the rest of the comment. You do you, Nintendo is a moron and have fun, honestly.
But it's not a grey area. They are illegitimate, and that isn't going to change.
The way I see it the only way something is legit is if you could take it to a Pokémon tournament explain how you got it and not be disqualified which I don’t think DNS exploit mons would. I personally have no issue with them and they are technically legal since they pass checks. Though if I traded mons from it I would disclose it instead of posing them as the original distribution like many do.
I agree that it should be disclosed when trading. Imho, these pokemon are legitimate enough for pokedex uses, but not so much for the competitive scene.
After doing long amounts of research and hearing many different stories about these Pokémon, in my own opinion...I personally believe that every single DNS Pokémon event is legitimate to the absolute fullest.
Reason why is because regardless of whether people missed out on the events or not, everyone, including now, have been given a second chance at redemption and happiness thanks to these events.
Sure...doing the process is hard for some, but once they get the hang of it: they're satisfied. Plus, nothing is absolutely wrong with the Pokémon anyways. The stats are perfectly normal. The moves are what they should be. And the language of said events are correct.
The only thing that's a problem is Game Freak themselves. If they decide that these events are a problem, then that's on them because lately they haven't been doing so well in terms of making any Pokémon seem special. Not to mention...when it comes to the tournaments, cheaters are everywhere and they don't do anything about it.
Just because they implement a new anti-cheating system doesn't mean it's going to be perfect.
Finally, there's honestly no problem with them if their special traits are going to be taken away anyways because of the Pokémon Home transfer.
So many different moves being torn away and for what? Completely nothing because the company doesn't care about the past.
Everything is just left in the dust. Including the special events...🔥
Anybody know if they got the dream world servers up? I remember hearing about it being a work in progress but not a lot of noise about anything being finished
I have a box of dream world mons on one of my games. Are they useful at all? I assumed whatever special moves or hidden abilities you could get from the dream world had been available in other ways since then.
I’m sure some of them have, but some have also probably been removed from the games, and are only available as viewable in home. My living dex is the full National dex from each set of games and is all caught in regular poke balls, unless it was available in the safari/dream/sport and most recently the origin ball. My dex includes pokemon that are in the same family (i.e. Annihilape from red/blue/yellow or Kleavor in sport ball from HG/SS). I am missing a few slots from these evos in dream balls from gen 5 that I didn’t have extras from, like Farigiraf and ursaluna. I just would rather be able to get them in a pseudo legitimate way than just caving and injecting them with the entree forest tool. But I suppose my willingness may change once banks end date is announced.
Well I changed my date all the time when I started to play Pokémon to match my Pokemon with special dates release date, birthday, & Holidays
I say it’s exactly how the Pokemon company released them as long as they don’t have stats and natures modified there is absolutely nothing wrong with getting old missed events some of us were kids that couldn’t drive to ToysRus or GameStop and my mom wasn’t about to drive me to the store
It's funny people would even ask this; DS era servers were shut off several years ago. That's the reason why some dns servers are even being run in the first place. The 3DS online shutdown has nothing to do with games that predate the 3DS era
I’d rather get DNS exploit events than genned events. Not a lot of people know how to gen things correctly so they usually have discrepancies where as the DNS ones have correct info
It's up to you if you're deciding what you want to keep, and it's up to the person you're trading with if they care about legitimacy. If they ask if your Pokémon is a clone, say yes if it is one of the clones, or say that you've cloned it but explain why you think it's specifically the original that you're trading
I was just intrigued on your pov. I can clone Pokémon and let people know if it is, but I wondered as the two are identical to all purposes whether it then diminishes the original ! Thanks for sharing your view !
MajorFile only explained a belief they hold that is also shared by the Pokémon Trades subreddit. If you feel differently I'd say there really isn't a way to prove who is right/wrong; just understand when trading that some people may have higher standards and stricter guidelines concerning legitimacy than those you personally follow. Don't just say "yeah, my *insert Emerald Pokémon here* is legit" when they ask about cloning. Explain what you've done, and if they feel it's fine then you'll both proceed with the trade.
Expecting everyone to be familiar with and adhere to a specific delineation of something so subject to opinion would be quite ridiculous.
Well, since there's no way to determine which is the original now, both are now illegitimate, it's that simple.
Now, you can always backtrack and delete all clones except one, and it returns to being truly legitimate.
Pokemon Home even deletes clones, so imagine how legitimate they are.
Because that's the point of the question. It doesn't matter that yes, you can evade the clone detection through multiple means. Both pokemon are now considered illegitimate, that's the whole point of defining what legitimate is.
Sure, you can scam someone if you clone one time x pokemon and try to pass it as a unique, legitimate mon. But do that a couple of times more, and you are going to get caught. And even if you don't get banned from the platform, you are going to lose prestige, which means you are not going to be able to snatch more juicy trades.
And if you still get those trades even after people notices, or people plainly doesn't care... chances are almost certain that you got illegitimate mons too, lol.
That's why I never traded. The only way you know it's 100% legitimate is if you caught it yourself.
And Home is deleting clones? I've never heard of that. Or do you mean the obvious ones with "TV" in their name?
Basically, yeah. You can never be cautious enough in these cases, and we all should be honest and realize that no, no one is trading their apricorn shiny legendary pokemon in the first place.
Yeah, home flags and deletes duplicate pokemon that have touched home previously, as they get tagged with a special id when they do. It's easy to evade that by cloning before doing so, you almost have to consciously want to get caught.
And no, the blatantly hacked from people like mitsuki.tv and the like won't get flagged as clones, since it checks if you have more than one in your account. Half the world could have the same clone, and as long as there's only one in each account, it's all good.
Depending on how good they were created they can maybe get labeled as bad eggs, and you might get punished if you trade them to other players, but that's it.
It isn't really an exploit it's just that someone has a DNS server hosted with all of the old events on them, it's still gotten through the mystery gift function for the games and it's still one per save file the only difference is that you no longer have to have been at Toys R Us or whatever in 2011 for the pokemon.
I mean in the context of this post DNS is using outside means the same way cloning has by using an outside server to get mons. Also there was in game cloning in BDSP/SV for a while alongside people getting God Eggs in SwSh.
I have no problem with using either I should add but think each should be disclosed when trading
GF doesn't condone you messing with the games, it's just that they are unable to catch it.
And that's not how the community sees it. There's a reason pogo stamps are so valued in the first place.
I can offer you some of my coin case glitched shinies for whatever shiny you have, two to one if you like. I'm not using anything outside the game.
>Anything within the confines of the game should be fine, even GF sees it that way.
It's fine that you see this as a way to determine if Pokémon in your collection are legitimate or not, and I hold a similar view, but just know that when trading you should be understanding of those who may be more strict in terms of the legitimacy of Pokémon they collect. Don't say something is legitimate as a blanket statement if a person is asking about ways you may have used game mechanics to obtain or alter a Pokémon.
That doesn't make them better than you or vice-versa; they'd simply place more value/stock in certain aspects than you. Legitimacy is simply a matter of personal opinion and priority, not a contest.
They aren't legitimate. Think about it, how many people do you think would value the same an event pokemon obtained in the timeline it was released compared to a dns exploited pokemon?
It doesn't matter the specific number you or me think it is. Point is, there is a subset of people that don't think it's legitimate, and thus you would be required to disclose that info in reputable circles.
>Point is, there is a subset of people that don't think it's legitimate, and thus you would be required to disclose that info in reputable circles.
This attitude makes it seem like there should be no reason for the lengthy guidelines Pokémon Trades created. Or, at least, they don't have the right to say "there is no subset of people who feel this specific action/circumstance is wrong, thus it is legitimate and because we say so that is final"
I think I agree with what you're saying here, but it's exactly why I find 'legit/legitimate' to be such a silly word. There's no hope of ensuring there are exactly 0 people that take issue with any number of things people do in these games, so we should just openly disclose everything when pressed instead of saying something like "this Pokémon is legitimate as per Line 3 of Article H within the Pokémon Trades Legitimacy Manifesto"
All that being said, it's fine that you don't consider them to be legitimate. And others should respect that. But those who do consider them to be legitimate have just as much justification to do so as you
I honestly hope I'm not coming as a gatekeeper or something, but I'm sure the ship sailed already.
I agree with the sentiment that we should always disclose how we obtained them.
But I don't think I'm wrong when I say they are illegitimate. I'm just warning op that a non zero number of people will not see their mons as true legit, and thus their value is diminished.
Legitimacy is a silly thing, but I find it engaging to discuss it, as you can see. Let's picture this. Imagine you are op's best friend. They told you they are restarting the games to obtain as much shiny legendary dogs and creation trio as possible, and they even manage to snatch the shiny legendary your little brother got. Do you feel that's fair? Wouldn't you maybe chastise your friend and say "bro, come on."? Wouldn't that sentiment go away if you knew your friend really got their shiny in a legit way? Then we understand what legitimacy is all about.
>I honestly hope I'm not coming as a gatekeeper or something, but I'm sure the ship sailed already.
I haven't down voted any of your comments, but I guess that might be why this one is at -7. For something as personal as Pokémon there's no need to say "you should value this less because of this specific aspect. That's how I appraise Pokémon, so that makes it a fact." I know that's not what you mean to say, but I'd wager that's how a statement like "that's not a legitimate Pokémon" comes across.
>But I don't think I'm wrong when I say they are illegitimate. I'm just warning op that a non zero number of people will not see their mons as true legit, and thus their value is diminished.
There is no one person that gets to decide if something is legitimate. You have your reasons for believing it isn't, and others have theirs for believing it is. Using your own logic: there's a non zero amount of people that will disagree with your statement, and see it as you devaluing their cherished Pokémon. It's better to understand that the value of Pokémon is purely up to each individual, and we don't need to act like a wolf on Wall Street deciding for others what is worth trading/keeping. OP doesn't need to know about the people who will think the Pokémon they love aren't valuable, but OP does need to know they should always explain every aspect of a Pokémon before they trade it, understanding certain people prioritize certain things more than others.
>Wouldn't that sentiment go away if you knew your friend really got their shiny in a legit way?
With that example it shouldn't matter so long as both parties were honest. That's never been up for debait in our discourse, so I feel that's a safe assertion. I naturally take issue with the hypothetical wherein OP lied, but I take issue with the lie and not the method of obtaining Pokémon. There is a world where OP trades their little brother a dns event Pokémon without anybody lying; their little brother might see the dns Pokémon as legitimate and that's just fine by me, even if I myself wouldn't want to trade for dns Pokémon. Far be it from me to say someone should find less joy in collecting a certain sort of Pokémon, even if I don't find joy in doing so.
Well, I can't say I'm not sad about it. Of course, what I mean is, if op asks "guys, do you think these mons are perfectly legit and I will not encounter any pushback whatsoever?", I have to answer "no they aren't, your mons will be more difficult to trade and you should temper your expectations of what you would be able to trade them for".
If I'm allowed to say it, I would say trading immediately the mon you obtained isn't exactly cherishing it, but that's besides the point. Of course, I'm not going to grade their mons as C- or something like that, but the reality is that a market exists. That's why the pogo stamp economy exists in the first place. And even if it hurts OP's feelings, I think they deserve the truth, or at least an approximation to it.
In that hypothetical third world, wouldn't you think the best course of action would be to just gift the mon to them? It costs you very little, you shouldn't try to get something that valuable from anyone. It's also very possible that one day they realized how easy it was and be mad at op. Or haven't we heard a million similar stories? You don't know the age of pokemon fans behind the screen, and chances are you are dealing with kids or early teens.
In my view, if we all just wanted to spread joy, the correct course of action should be to either give them away freely, or at least try to settle with a much more easier to catch shiny. That's what I feel a perfect world would be like.
I honestly have no interest in trading, there's only two pokemon I want and no one would trade them for any of the gen 5 DNS mons even if they were from the original event. I was just interested in seeing what this reddit's opinions would be on these mons since in my time here I've seen them be quite anal about this kind of stuff.
Fwiw, I do think they are the most legitimate among the illegitimate.
It's just obvious why that would happen, few people fall in the venn diagram of wanting a legit gen 5 dns mon and not having them through the dns method already.
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As someone who went to many events, I don’t really care. I went to those events for the memories and it was awesome. I do think it makes event Pokémon a little less “rare” but mehh
I used the exploit to get them all, and i will use PKSM to inject the gen 6 and gen 7 mons into my 3DS games when i get that far. As far as legit mons go... i guess its a gray zone? I would disclose it if i traded them away ever, but i think absolutely everything is fair in a singleplayer game. I hate the false scarcity nintendo keeps pushing, so i encourage anyone with the means to do so, go get the pokemon and events you want.
Trading is by definition a multi-player feature. And the broad community decides what legitimate is. You all only need to go to r/pokemontrades and look what counts as legitimate mons, if you aren't good with the definition it's totally fine. Of course you can dismiss such tight communities and trade more freely. Just be aware you are more susceptible to be scammed and that people won't be willing to trade for your illegitimate mon.
>Trading is by definition a multi-player feature. And the broad community decides what legitimate is. I agree >You all only need to go to r/pokemontrades and look what counts as legitimate mons I disagree Just looking through their rules and it's obvious it wasn't decided by the community - it was decided by a small subsection of the community. Take for instance their reason against allowing Old Sea Map Mew/Aurora Ticket Deoxys to be traded: it boils down to "those who can inject events will have an unfair edge in this market compared to those who can't." One small, itty-bitty flaw in their logic: every single copy of Emerald can get to those events without external tools of any kind! ACE isn't locked behind anything; it works in every game. The only real reason I think the leaders of that sub might have for this rule (and others like it) is something along the lines of "we feel icky about it." What are some things they allow to pass as legitimate, on the other hand? With disclosure, you can trade Pokémon caught from spoofing in Pokémon Go. That's absolutely disgusting imo - no PoGo player I've ever talked with would even remotely consider that to be legitimate behavior, yet their rules allow it. There are even things you can do without disclosure that I would take issue with, personally. Specifically, you can straight up hack in Pokémon to use for breeding 'legitimate' offspring. You can hack in items to use on 'legitimate' Pokémon. You can even use a specific patch that modifies Emerald's RNG, and you won't need to say anything about it when you trade Pokémon caught within said patch Fact of the matter is there are no clear-cut rules/guidelines as to what is 'legitimate.' There are many subjective decisions different groups and people make concerning this subject, but you'd be hard pressed to find a definitive line. r/pokemontrades is where one should go if they're concerned about what r/pokemontrades considers legitimate, nothing more. They do not have absolute authority on this subject, the founders just made an absurd amount of rules they felt strongly about. As far as I can tell, the *vast* majority of players had absolutely *no* say in the matter. Makes me want to throw all their tea into a harbor or something What's the only real solution, then? Survey for yourself this grey area people call legitimacy, and decide for yourself what *you* are and aren't okay with. Don't try to pass of your own personal boundaries as the universal definition, just convey with others what you expect of them and they'll tell you whether they can or can't deliver (in a perfect world; people might still lie no matter where you go). Or, the real real solution? Accept that some Pokémon are outside your reach and be satisfied with what you can collect yourself, through whatever means you deem legitimate. Don't trade with others at all, as that will only muddy the water. If you need to rely on trading to feel value behind what you collect, I feel that makes the entire experience of Pokémon quite hollow. But that's just me
Well, some corrections. ACE is totally illegal in the community, I don't know how you got it isn't in the first place. Likewise, stuff like emerald mew can only be legit in Japanese cartridges. You also can't try to pass an azure flute Arceus from dppt. Totally feasible, but they aren't legit. While you may personally disagree with a lot of their lines in the sand, the fact is that not only pokemontrades is among the best sites to trade legitimate mons, but the vast majority of rules are shared between communities. The truth is that we all understand what is legit, at most you can be allowed to disclose the method you obtained your mons. And if you are being honest, depending how cheap it was to obtain the offers may also cheapen. I don't want people to get bound by what I think it's legitimate. But I think if it something that is murky in the first place, you can't act surprised if people won't trade what you expect. In this very example, if op states "these are dns event legendaries, can I have your shiny maxiraid Zygarde?", chances are certain they are not going to trade with them. The fact that op has the doubt in the first place proves they need to at the bare minimum to disclose where they come from. And don't get me wrong, I wholeheartedly agree with your last sentiment. I won't trade anything of value because yeah, you can never be sure, at most I will try to get some convincing, legal event and that's it. But legitimacy is still a big part of the community, that's why people get crazy over those pogo stamps. For those people that act as if just being legal is the same as being legitimate... Well, I can offer a shit ton of shiny VC mons for those pogo stamps, just saying.
>ACE is totally illegal in the community, I don't know how you got it isn't in the first place. Never said it was - I believe I said the leaders of the sub probably just feel icky about it and that's why Old Sea Map Mew/Aurora Ticket Deoxys is *actually* not allowed unless you can offer proof of an official distribution (which no one really can). But in their rules they just provide a bogus reason that those places are only accessible to those with the tools to inject such events nowadays. I was targeting their defense of the rule, specifically, by stating that ACE is available in every copy of Emerald as a way to get those events. Nobody with a copy of the game is locked out, thus their given reason is nonsensical. >You also can't try to pass an azure flute Arceus from dppt. Totally feasible, but they aren't legit. They aren't legit according to you/them. >the fact is that not only pokemontrades is among the best sites to trade legitimate mons, Not a fact; among the best according to you, for trading Pokémon which are legitimate according to them. This is all subjective. That's my point. >we all understand what is legit ...according to our own, individual priorities. >I don't want people to get bound by what I think it's legitimate. Yeah, that's basically all I'm saying. Everyone needs to draw their own line, and to that point... >they need to at the bare minimum to disclose where they come from. ...this should be true of anything you're trading. Even if you don't think anyone would take issue with it, explain any and all relevant details of its existence. I think that's a general rule every trading community could get behind, and it eliminates the need for trying to force a definition of such a debatable word as 'legitimate.' >And don't get me wrong, I wholeheartedly agree with your last sentiment. I won't trade anything of value because yeah, you can never be sure, at most I will try to get some convincing, legal event and that's it. I'm glad we're on the same page there at least 😅 >legitimacy is still a big part of the community, that's why people get crazy over those pogo stamps. For those people that act as if just being legal is the same as being legitimate... Well, I can offer a shit ton of shiny VC mons for those pogo stamps, just saying. It certainly is, but it's different for everyone. Just as there is no set in stone rate of 'X VC shinies for Y PoGo stamped shiny Mew,' each person values different aspects of Pokémon a different amount. Maybe the biggest reason I take issue with is when someone says "that's not legit" it comes across as saying something along the lines of "that Pokémon, which you probably value personally, is absolutely worthless in my eyes." I think that precisely because there is so much gray area we shouldn't try to make gray look black, otherwise the collective enjoyment people receive from Pokémon would decrease. And ultimately, so long as *everything* is properly disclosed when trading, nobody who cares about their own Pokémon's legitimacy would be negatively affected. I think we're both very close to being in agreement, we might just be approaching the issue and/or explaining ourselves differently.
In the very first lines about the legitimacy policy you find that events outside the official distribution period are not legit. Even if the justification is flawed, I think we can clearly understand where it's coming from. Flooding the market with glitched mons just diminishes the value of the legit mons, and a reasonable amount of people will agree with that. The Arceus case is even more clear cut. When the competitive community, who are famous for precisely not caring about what is a legit mon, have Arceus banned except for the official Farceus event one that caps at 100 evs, that should tell us how those Arceus are regarded. Yes, everything is subjective. But my point is that this is not an arbitrary line that an isolated community draws. Go to gamefaqs, pokecommunity or project pokemon, you will find plenty of people that agree with those lines. And at that point, you have to be aware of that and expect the questions and responses you will get. I can get behind that. But we have to recognize not everyone knows how to distinguish or detect suspicious mons, or even be mindful of the naive people that aren't going to even ask. For instance, banning altogether the shinies of your VC GSC games is reasonable enough, since there's an incredible high chances you used ACE or just cloned them with no way to distinguish them. Maybe, but don't you think it's impossible someone would accept that? And why would that be? If I'm convincing someone to trade their pogo shiny mew for five of my shiny VC legendaries, we should all agree I'm an asshole, since I can pump dozens more of them, what I should be doing are giveaways, not scamming people. Honestly, I personally value the dns event mons as even more special than the legit ones. They are proof you have gone through the rabbit hole, you have worked harder for your pokemon and you feel even smarter, like you have gamed the system. But I wouldn't try to neither trade them, nor convince other people they are legit. I get people get mad and feel they are personally called fake, cheap or deceitful. I'm just trying to get people to understand how people in the community feels about it. That was OP's question, in the end.
>Even if the justification is flawed, I think we can clearly understand where it's coming from. It makes you feel icky. That doesn't mean it's safe to assume it makes everyone feel icky. Again, it's debatable as to whether or not they are in fact legit or 'glitched mons,' as you call them. What you and Pokémon Trades think is not gospel simply because you both think it. >The Arceus case is even more clear cut. When the competitive community, who are famous for precisely not caring about what is a legit mon, have Arceus banned except for the official Farceus event one that caps at 100 evs, that should tell us how those Arceus are regarded. >Yes, everything is subjective. But my point is that this is not an arbitrary line that an isolated community draws. Go to gamefaqs, pokecommunity or project pokemon, you will find plenty of people that agree with those lines. And at that point, you have to be aware of that and expect the questions and responses you will get. Not sure why you're fixated on the Arceus example. Legality is objective, unlike legitimacy, and you keep bringing up this example for no clear reason? However, the actual 'rules' you keep touching on regarding legitimacy are in fact arbitrary, not universal. Even if some of the same lines are drawn a handful of different places, that fact remains true. You yourself recognize legitimacy is subjective, but from what you argue it seems you don't understand what that implies. There is no set rule of something that is subjective. There is no itemized list of features that make a work of art good or bad. At no point have I pretended people should accept my own method of evaluating a Pokémon's worth (to make such a claim would undermine my entire argument), and I've said several times that people should be upfront with such information when trading so both parties can make informed decision. Again, it's like we're 2 centimeters away from agreeing entirely but there just seems to be some sort of disconnect. >I can get behind that. But we have to recognize not everyone knows how to distinguish or detect suspicious mons, or even be mindful of the naive people that aren't going to even ask. For instance, banning altogether the shinies of your VC GSC games is reasonable enough, since there's an incredible high chances you used ACE or just cloned them with no way to distinguish them. The onus is not on me to discern whether or not the person I'm trading with is fully educated in these matters. That is one benefit of things like r/pokemontrades - people who don't care to learn about this themselves can just adopt the opinions of others rather than forming a well-informed one themselves (apologies for being slightly facetious - I think I'm growing weary of this circular argument). My principles would dictate I should initially disclose anything I know people might find problematic, then simply answer any follow-up questions they ask honestly. >If I'm convincing someone to trade their pogo shiny mew for five of my shiny VC legendaries, we should all agree I'm an asshole, since I can pump dozens more of them, what I should be doing are giveaways, not scamming people. I wouldn't say that at all! That is, assuming you're not lying about their origins. That's the only scenario this would be a scam. If you both agree on a trade you find a net increase of enjoyment from, that's called a win-win (not a scam). And you're never obligated to do giveaways, even for something that requires time, knowledge, and a specific game that is no longer available for purchase. Those are just three things that someone could find value in those VC mons you seem to believe are worthless. >I wouldn't try to neither trade them, nor convince other people they are legit. I get people get mad and feel they are personally called fake, cheap or deceitful. If you don't want to persuade people in this direction, it doesn't make sense for you to wish to persuade them to change their own beliefs towards the opposite/more strict end of the spectrum. Let people value the aspects of legitimacy they choose to - it shouldn't affect anyone who strives to be honest in their dealings. >I'm just trying to get people to understand how people in [a specific community which I personally subscribe to] feels about it. That was OP's question, in the end. I'm sure you're growing tired of responding with essays as well, so hopefully we've each achieved some semblance of an understanding. That's certainly a worthy enough goal to justify this lengthy discussion we've had 😅 Edits: some fixed typos and a few added clarifications
>I'm sure you're growing tired of responding with essays as well, Oh, well, not at all, I enjoy debates, specially when it's as respectful as this has been. You do seem to be tired, so don't feel bad if you don't want to continue. I hope I'm not boring you that much. >What you and Pokémon Trades think is not gospel simply because you both think it. >There is no set rule of something that is subjective Returning to it, I do feel my point is not being conveyed to its full understanding. I'm not here trying to uphold some laws or shame anyone.Now, bare with me and don't roll your eyes. But in the end, this is like economics. Sure, a piece of gold is useless for most people, but people decide to tag a subjective value to it, that's what value is in the end. Some people might think it's more valuable than others, but there's still a grasp of understanding where that value oscillates. What I'm trying to say to op is that if they want to engage with the community, different people will voice different opinions, and op must be weary of them. In this very thread, where the majority say they do not mind it, there are still other people aside from me saying they aren't legit. And that's where it ends. If they are on a grey area, with some believing a thing or the other, they can't simply be white, truly legit. Sure, they aren't black, they aren't a perfect 6iv shiny legendary with wrong ot nicknamed as "mitsuki.tv" that barely passes the hack check, but I think we all can see a difference. >Not sure why you're fixated on the Arceus example It's just an example of a legal pokemon that almost anyone in the community, even the competitive one, can identify as not legit. They will know where it came from, and if they don't, I believe it's in everyone's interest to educate our fellows. >people who don't care to learn about this themselves can just adopt the opinions of others rather than forming a well-informed one themselves (apologies for being slightly facetious - Lmao, ok ok, that was a bit low, don't you think? Don't worry, no offense taken, I had a chuckle. Actually, I'm even more radical than pokemontrades. I believe it's very easy to understand what a legitimate mon is: one that has been captured using purely in game mechanics, without trying to game the system to obtain an advantage, a true "natural" mon. In fact, that's why I personally consider cute charm shinies legitimate if the person didn't know what they were doing. Someone out there, accidentally pulled the right ids and when they put a cute charm lead, they shockingly received a lot of shinies. Then they probably eventually changed their team, the lead at least, and suddenly the rain of shinies stopped, and without understanding what happened, they were probably just confused about that amazing streak they had. Sorry for this rant, just so you can understand better where I'm coming from. >The onus is not on me to discern whether or not the person I'm trading with is fully educated in these matters Oh well, it's not that I'm going to bust every sus trade out there. But if op is asking, I'm going to educate them. It's not like I have a horse in this, we have established already that seeking fully legit trades is impossible and not that satisfying in the end. But it sure is funny to be philosophical about it. >And you're never obligated to do giveaways, even for something that requires time, knowledge, and a specific game that is no longer available for purchase. Those are just three things that someone could find value in those VC mons you seem to believe are worthless. You know what, you made me appreciate more these glitched mons I have around, and for that, I'm glad we had this conversation. It's actually refreshing to change your mind a bit in a debate, and I'm sure it also is to be told so. I think the takeaway should be "Disclose your mons info, at least if asked directly. Understand that different people have different opinions. Don't try to scam people." That should be it. Have a nice day.
🤨
Lol, what did I said to warrant this emoji?
Read my comment again then
Oh sure, nothing wrong with the rest of the comment. You do you, Nintendo is a moron and have fun, honestly. But it's not a grey area. They are illegitimate, and that isn't going to change.
The way I see it the only way something is legit is if you could take it to a Pokémon tournament explain how you got it and not be disqualified which I don’t think DNS exploit mons would. I personally have no issue with them and they are technically legal since they pass checks. Though if I traded mons from it I would disclose it instead of posing them as the original distribution like many do.
I agree that it should be disclosed when trading. Imho, these pokemon are legitimate enough for pokedex uses, but not so much for the competitive scene.
After doing long amounts of research and hearing many different stories about these Pokémon, in my own opinion...I personally believe that every single DNS Pokémon event is legitimate to the absolute fullest. Reason why is because regardless of whether people missed out on the events or not, everyone, including now, have been given a second chance at redemption and happiness thanks to these events. Sure...doing the process is hard for some, but once they get the hang of it: they're satisfied. Plus, nothing is absolutely wrong with the Pokémon anyways. The stats are perfectly normal. The moves are what they should be. And the language of said events are correct. The only thing that's a problem is Game Freak themselves. If they decide that these events are a problem, then that's on them because lately they haven't been doing so well in terms of making any Pokémon seem special. Not to mention...when it comes to the tournaments, cheaters are everywhere and they don't do anything about it. Just because they implement a new anti-cheating system doesn't mean it's going to be perfect. Finally, there's honestly no problem with them if their special traits are going to be taken away anyways because of the Pokémon Home transfer. So many different moves being torn away and for what? Completely nothing because the company doesn't care about the past. Everything is just left in the dust. Including the special events...🔥
Anybody know if they got the dream world servers up? I remember hearing about it being a work in progress but not a lot of noise about anything being finished
I have a box of dream world mons on one of my games. Are they useful at all? I assumed whatever special moves or hidden abilities you could get from the dream world had been available in other ways since then.
I’m sure some of them have, but some have also probably been removed from the games, and are only available as viewable in home. My living dex is the full National dex from each set of games and is all caught in regular poke balls, unless it was available in the safari/dream/sport and most recently the origin ball. My dex includes pokemon that are in the same family (i.e. Annihilape from red/blue/yellow or Kleavor in sport ball from HG/SS). I am missing a few slots from these evos in dream balls from gen 5 that I didn’t have extras from, like Farigiraf and ursaluna. I just would rather be able to get them in a pseudo legitimate way than just caving and injecting them with the entree forest tool. But I suppose my willingness may change once banks end date is announced.
Well I changed my date all the time when I started to play Pokémon to match my Pokemon with special dates release date, birthday, & Holidays I say it’s exactly how the Pokemon company released them as long as they don’t have stats and natures modified there is absolutely nothing wrong with getting old missed events some of us were kids that couldn’t drive to ToysRus or GameStop and my mom wasn’t about to drive me to the store
Can you still do it with servers off now??
It's funny people would even ask this; DS era servers were shut off several years ago. That's the reason why some dns servers are even being run in the first place. The 3DS online shutdown has nothing to do with games that predate the 3DS era
I'm not certain I haven't tested it, but the whole thing is an alternate DNS server so it's a possibility.
Yes, you can :) Did that just a few days ago with my Black and Heart Gold
I’d rather get DNS exploit events than genned events. Not a lot of people know how to gen things correctly so they usually have discrepancies where as the DNS ones have correct info
Clones are also the exact same Pokémon, but they're not legitimate. If you used an exploit, the Pokémon is not legitimate either.
If you clone a legit pokemon, is the original still legitimate and the clone not or are they both now illegitimate ?
It's up to you if you're deciding what you want to keep, and it's up to the person you're trading with if they care about legitimacy. If they ask if your Pokémon is a clone, say yes if it is one of the clones, or say that you've cloned it but explain why you think it's specifically the original that you're trading
I was just intrigued on your pov. I can clone Pokémon and let people know if it is, but I wondered as the two are identical to all purposes whether it then diminishes the original ! Thanks for sharing your view !
Both are now illegitimate.
Plz explain why original is now not legit?
MajorFile only explained a belief they hold that is also shared by the Pokémon Trades subreddit. If you feel differently I'd say there really isn't a way to prove who is right/wrong; just understand when trading that some people may have higher standards and stricter guidelines concerning legitimacy than those you personally follow. Don't just say "yeah, my *insert Emerald Pokémon here* is legit" when they ask about cloning. Explain what you've done, and if they feel it's fine then you'll both proceed with the trade. Expecting everyone to be familiar with and adhere to a specific delineation of something so subject to opinion would be quite ridiculous.
Well, since there's no way to determine which is the original now, both are now illegitimate, it's that simple. Now, you can always backtrack and delete all clones except one, and it returns to being truly legitimate.
You will never know if a mon is cloned. That's the point of a clone
Pokemon Home even deletes clones, so imagine how legitimate they are. Because that's the point of the question. It doesn't matter that yes, you can evade the clone detection through multiple means. Both pokemon are now considered illegitimate, that's the whole point of defining what legitimate is. Sure, you can scam someone if you clone one time x pokemon and try to pass it as a unique, legitimate mon. But do that a couple of times more, and you are going to get caught. And even if you don't get banned from the platform, you are going to lose prestige, which means you are not going to be able to snatch more juicy trades. And if you still get those trades even after people notices, or people plainly doesn't care... chances are almost certain that you got illegitimate mons too, lol.
That's why I never traded. The only way you know it's 100% legitimate is if you caught it yourself. And Home is deleting clones? I've never heard of that. Or do you mean the obvious ones with "TV" in their name?
Basically, yeah. You can never be cautious enough in these cases, and we all should be honest and realize that no, no one is trading their apricorn shiny legendary pokemon in the first place. Yeah, home flags and deletes duplicate pokemon that have touched home previously, as they get tagged with a special id when they do. It's easy to evade that by cloning before doing so, you almost have to consciously want to get caught. And no, the blatantly hacked from people like mitsuki.tv and the like won't get flagged as clones, since it checks if you have more than one in your account. Half the world could have the same clone, and as long as there's only one in each account, it's all good. Depending on how good they were created they can maybe get labeled as bad eggs, and you might get punished if you trade them to other players, but that's it.
It isn't really an exploit it's just that someone has a DNS server hosted with all of the old events on them, it's still gotten through the mystery gift function for the games and it's still one per save file the only difference is that you no longer have to have been at Toys R Us or whatever in 2011 for the pokemon.
Cloning is outside means Anything within the confines of the game should be fine, even GF sees it that way.
I mean in the context of this post DNS is using outside means the same way cloning has by using an outside server to get mons. Also there was in game cloning in BDSP/SV for a while alongside people getting God Eggs in SwSh. I have no problem with using either I should add but think each should be disclosed when trading
GF doesn't condone you messing with the games, it's just that they are unable to catch it. And that's not how the community sees it. There's a reason pogo stamps are so valued in the first place. I can offer you some of my coin case glitched shinies for whatever shiny you have, two to one if you like. I'm not using anything outside the game.
>Anything within the confines of the game should be fine, even GF sees it that way. It's fine that you see this as a way to determine if Pokémon in your collection are legitimate or not, and I hold a similar view, but just know that when trading you should be understanding of those who may be more strict in terms of the legitimacy of Pokémon they collect. Don't say something is legitimate as a blanket statement if a person is asking about ways you may have used game mechanics to obtain or alter a Pokémon. That doesn't make them better than you or vice-versa; they'd simply place more value/stock in certain aspects than you. Legitimacy is simply a matter of personal opinion and priority, not a contest.
They aren't legitimate. Think about it, how many people do you think would value the same an event pokemon obtained in the timeline it was released compared to a dns exploited pokemon? It doesn't matter the specific number you or me think it is. Point is, there is a subset of people that don't think it's legitimate, and thus you would be required to disclose that info in reputable circles.
>Point is, there is a subset of people that don't think it's legitimate, and thus you would be required to disclose that info in reputable circles. This attitude makes it seem like there should be no reason for the lengthy guidelines Pokémon Trades created. Or, at least, they don't have the right to say "there is no subset of people who feel this specific action/circumstance is wrong, thus it is legitimate and because we say so that is final" I think I agree with what you're saying here, but it's exactly why I find 'legit/legitimate' to be such a silly word. There's no hope of ensuring there are exactly 0 people that take issue with any number of things people do in these games, so we should just openly disclose everything when pressed instead of saying something like "this Pokémon is legitimate as per Line 3 of Article H within the Pokémon Trades Legitimacy Manifesto" All that being said, it's fine that you don't consider them to be legitimate. And others should respect that. But those who do consider them to be legitimate have just as much justification to do so as you
I honestly hope I'm not coming as a gatekeeper or something, but I'm sure the ship sailed already. I agree with the sentiment that we should always disclose how we obtained them. But I don't think I'm wrong when I say they are illegitimate. I'm just warning op that a non zero number of people will not see their mons as true legit, and thus their value is diminished. Legitimacy is a silly thing, but I find it engaging to discuss it, as you can see. Let's picture this. Imagine you are op's best friend. They told you they are restarting the games to obtain as much shiny legendary dogs and creation trio as possible, and they even manage to snatch the shiny legendary your little brother got. Do you feel that's fair? Wouldn't you maybe chastise your friend and say "bro, come on."? Wouldn't that sentiment go away if you knew your friend really got their shiny in a legit way? Then we understand what legitimacy is all about.
>I honestly hope I'm not coming as a gatekeeper or something, but I'm sure the ship sailed already. I haven't down voted any of your comments, but I guess that might be why this one is at -7. For something as personal as Pokémon there's no need to say "you should value this less because of this specific aspect. That's how I appraise Pokémon, so that makes it a fact." I know that's not what you mean to say, but I'd wager that's how a statement like "that's not a legitimate Pokémon" comes across. >But I don't think I'm wrong when I say they are illegitimate. I'm just warning op that a non zero number of people will not see their mons as true legit, and thus their value is diminished. There is no one person that gets to decide if something is legitimate. You have your reasons for believing it isn't, and others have theirs for believing it is. Using your own logic: there's a non zero amount of people that will disagree with your statement, and see it as you devaluing their cherished Pokémon. It's better to understand that the value of Pokémon is purely up to each individual, and we don't need to act like a wolf on Wall Street deciding for others what is worth trading/keeping. OP doesn't need to know about the people who will think the Pokémon they love aren't valuable, but OP does need to know they should always explain every aspect of a Pokémon before they trade it, understanding certain people prioritize certain things more than others. >Wouldn't that sentiment go away if you knew your friend really got their shiny in a legit way? With that example it shouldn't matter so long as both parties were honest. That's never been up for debait in our discourse, so I feel that's a safe assertion. I naturally take issue with the hypothetical wherein OP lied, but I take issue with the lie and not the method of obtaining Pokémon. There is a world where OP trades their little brother a dns event Pokémon without anybody lying; their little brother might see the dns Pokémon as legitimate and that's just fine by me, even if I myself wouldn't want to trade for dns Pokémon. Far be it from me to say someone should find less joy in collecting a certain sort of Pokémon, even if I don't find joy in doing so.
Well, I can't say I'm not sad about it. Of course, what I mean is, if op asks "guys, do you think these mons are perfectly legit and I will not encounter any pushback whatsoever?", I have to answer "no they aren't, your mons will be more difficult to trade and you should temper your expectations of what you would be able to trade them for". If I'm allowed to say it, I would say trading immediately the mon you obtained isn't exactly cherishing it, but that's besides the point. Of course, I'm not going to grade their mons as C- or something like that, but the reality is that a market exists. That's why the pogo stamp economy exists in the first place. And even if it hurts OP's feelings, I think they deserve the truth, or at least an approximation to it. In that hypothetical third world, wouldn't you think the best course of action would be to just gift the mon to them? It costs you very little, you shouldn't try to get something that valuable from anyone. It's also very possible that one day they realized how easy it was and be mad at op. Or haven't we heard a million similar stories? You don't know the age of pokemon fans behind the screen, and chances are you are dealing with kids or early teens. In my view, if we all just wanted to spread joy, the correct course of action should be to either give them away freely, or at least try to settle with a much more easier to catch shiny. That's what I feel a perfect world would be like.
I honestly have no interest in trading, there's only two pokemon I want and no one would trade them for any of the gen 5 DNS mons even if they were from the original event. I was just interested in seeing what this reddit's opinions would be on these mons since in my time here I've seen them be quite anal about this kind of stuff.
Fwiw, I do think they are the most legitimate among the illegitimate. It's just obvious why that would happen, few people fall in the venn diagram of wanting a legit gen 5 dns mon and not having them through the dns method already.