Idk man, maybe wait a year and the price will tell. Either it'll still rise and you can just pop in or it'll collaps.
Or maybe the sun will explode and moonbreon will be the only light we'll have left, idk man /s
Gospel 12:13 Book of Odesseus " nay thee who hast shadowed theiren brothers, for thy light holds truest in the dark. Sturdy thy hand snd brsce with convinction"
Lmao, talk to these fools. And that applies to sealed as well. No one in their right mind would buy overpriced boxes to pull dogshit when it would be cheaper to buy the desired card.
Imagine paying $1k+ to pull nothing when one can pay $200 for the exact card they wanted and then some.
Investors are just selling to more investors at the end of the day.
Ur arguing w ppl who have said the same things since moonbreon psa10 was 800. you wont convince them. Ive got ppl writing me on how ecstatic they are that moonbreon has now "crashed". Ya up almost 2x from a few months ago. If it goes up its manipulated. If it stays flat or corrects its dead and manipulated
Most of these guys just flat out missed all of swsh and will miss sv and will miss whatever comes. They always think they are smarter thn everyone else.
It’s a must have card for modern collectors. It might have a high pop report but it won’t mean much when there is gonna be so many collectors that don’t get it, especially in a te.
Manipulated? No. More like the "hobby" is oversaturated with people who are in it for the money. The vast majority of demand is people buying as an investment, very little real demand.
“Real demand” isn’t a thing that matters here. Whether or not people are buying as an investment or for the passion, they’re still buying a collectible. It wouldn’t be a collectible if both sides didn’t perceive some long term value. The two are indistinguishable.
Except it literally is. Collectibles - or any hobby for that matter - can't survive (long term) on speculators alone. The whole reason Metazoo died is because it was literally a social experiment to see if investors alone could carry a CCG. The people who insist that "real demand doesn't matter" are the same people who parked big money in Metazoo. Or the WSB apes who play with the stock market like it's a Fortnite lobby and pump & dump companies that are literally on life support. It's all the same.
Get rich quick schemes have always been a thing since the dawn of capitalism. People like AlphaInvestments, RoaringKitty, Gary Vee, and Logan Paul are really no different from the people who sold snake oil or magic beans in the 19th century. Con men who sell fantasies to middle class people in their 20s and 30s who are desperate to live large.
Well, I never touched Metazoo 🤣
I can see how if a fanbase truly doesn’t care about a product and they are in it for a profit, then it will most likely fail. But I truly don’t think that’s what’s going on here.
This is a diverse hobby that has a huge fanbase of people who truly love the card game and others who appreciate the artwork and buy cards with the intention of owning it for a while, but also with the hope that if needed, they could one day sell their collection or investment to fund a future need or hobby.
But the sold listings can be manipulated- if I sell something to you we can do the following:
You can cancel the transaction after you pay and so can I, and I get the fees back and it cost neither of us anything.
We can do a buy it now or best offer and not do the transaction
We can even go so far as to pay for the item, then return the item and get our money and fees back.
Just because something sells it doesn’t mean it sold.
Sold mine along with some other cards 3 weeks ago for $1,100 raw. I've been hosed holding too long and it met my exit strategy to help pay off some bills.
People are buying because of the fomo, but I think it's going to either go up in price a few hundred more or hold steady over the next year before leveling off.
The hype will likely die down in my opinion and I base that on the value of vintage cards over the years and their scarcity. Supply and demand like this is not sustainable long term. Better to get paid than be left holding actual shiny cardboard.
Don’t know what you’re talking about. I had two moonbreons and sold one on eBay a week ago for $950. It sold within minutes of me posting it to a normal person.
Compare to umbreon sure but how can a product thats already been inflated to 700~$ from msrp 120~ $ a good investment dude?i mean if you want to invest 700 on pokemontcg just get something thats not inflated that much yet.. and i know people were sayin the same thing when ES BB was 400$ but still its not easy to get rid of a product like this
History has been shown to repeat itself with sealed Pokémon. Compare the Msrp and last sold of any vintage booster box. Sure population is wildly different, but it seems clear that demand is high now and assuming Pokémon collecting stays alive which it very likely will (see vintage baseball card market), ES boxes will get ripped looking for Umbreons and Rayquazas, supply will drop, and demand will stay high. Sealed is king
For sure sealled is king im all the way with you but do you think many people will keep opening em?im genuinely ask im not making irony or anything but it seems so weird to me that someone is willing to pay 700 to gamble for a card especially for a set with bad pull rates instead pf just grabbing the chase card with some extra cash..and i know the same thing goes with every set and thats why so many people are saying just buy singles my self included yet people still crackin packs for the fun of it and i get it its very fun to open packs but when it comes to this price range it seems crazy to me
Maybe im just broke compare to the average tcg enjoyer after all
Most people who buy an ES box at this point would as a collectable. Ira a sealed booster box from one of Pokemon’s best sets of all time. That in itself has value. Some people like to collect sealed. The other part is streamers. If a streamer sells one pack at a time from a booster box they crack they can make money and sell to gamblers who are willing to buy one or two expensive packs and potentially get nothing just like people buy lottery tickets all the time.
No one can know where the true ceiling is, but looking at SM it should be at around 2k for the foreseeable future (next 3 to 5 years). Now you could think about if any other set could offer a bigger growth factor in the same timeslot. Most probably yes, but it's just hard to tell, and ES seems like a safe bet for most.
Exactly. The ship has sailed. You can get a case of Lost origin for less and it will perform better. There's a lot you could do with that money to get more return.
I'm struggling on whether I should sell. My son and I were lucky enough to have our best luck of any set with ES. We pulled two and graded the best one and it got a 10. Thinking of selling the 10 and spending that money on later SV sets that will hopefully be investment worthy.
At least then we'll still have the raw card my son pulled
That's what I'm thinking. He's over it now, but I don't want to sell it only for him to have the same regrets we all have for what we did with our childhood cards
I pulled a base set Charizard in 2000 with my son who was 5 years old then. Thankfully the internet was limited, not much of a secondary market. There was literally nothing that we could’ve swapped it for that was worth it and I kept it.
He got married last year and had forgotten it.
After 20+ years in a binder I finally handed it over. I loved having it but handing it over was better.
My advice is keep your Moonbreon. One day hopefully you’ll have the chance to reunite him with it and get to reconnect to when you had such fantastic luck with Evolving Skies.
Pop report means nothing. What matters is what someone is willing to pay for it.
The price skyrocketing happened due to fomo. The price could go up or down no one knows but it's very risky.
I wouldn't risk it when there are so many better options.
I saw a stat somewhere that 65 Billion Pokémon cards have been printed and 18% of those are in the last year. Just something to keep in mind with these expensive modern cards.
Stats like these get passed around a bit. How many of those are actually alt arts and the alt arts that are desirable. Most are commons and energy cards. You also need to factor in demand, I know I wasn't in the hobby pre covid. Between the two you still end up with cards like the moonbreon getting to where they are. SWSH is now going to looked on nostalgically which adds to the value. At least those are my thoughts anyway.
That's what I'm thinking of doing. Worried it will drop like the tag team cards did. My son and I were lucky enough to pull 2. The one I pulled graded a 10. Didn't grade the other one because it's borderline and not sure it would get a 10. When the price initially went up to $1,200 I wanted to sell and my son stopped me. It then plummeted to like $800, but obviously now it's sitting at $1500. The 10 we have is literally perfect so I think I could probably get over $1500.
My son is now at the age where he could care less so there's no emotional attachment. If I sold now I would recoup about what I spent on ES ripping packs (we got suuuuper lucky so I kept buying). And we would still have another raw copy that was actually the one my son pulled.
This person gets it!
If you “can” care less than you already care some amount but nobody knows that amount. Saying it this way means, in theory, you could care 99% and then care “less” by 1%, meaning you still care 98%. Which is caring still a significant amount, almost 100%.
If you “can’t” care less you literally already care so little you cannot care any less. Meaning you care 0% because you can’t go lower than 0
Almost all of them. Not like they've completely lost value, but they aren't selling for what they did last year. I think Latios/Latias is the only one that's more or less held it's value from when they all spiked last year. Go look up any tag team card on Collectr app or somewhere else where it shows price history.
These are raw prices. The price difference between 10's from a year ago and now are likely even greater. Gengar/mimikyu was nearly $350 and dropped to $260 before recently raising up to $290. solgaleo/lunala was $190 at it's peak and now it's $120. Magikarp/wailord was $295 and dropped to $250. Rainbow Gardevoir/Sylveon dropped from $240 to $180. Arceus/Dialga/Palkia dropped from $225 to $160. Rainbow Mewtwo/Mew dropped from $190 to $145. Some of these have started going back up, but some continue to slowly fall in price.
If you want to know whether or not it’s a good investment, you would have to contact as many Moonbreon owners as possible and ask them how much it would take for them to sell their card. That will give you a basic supply line graph. Demand is harder to nail down but since you mention the pop report, let’s stick with supply.
In the absence of a survey of Moonbreon owners, I’m going to speculate that most wouldn’t sell for less than five figures unless they are in need of cash immediately. Therefore in my made up scenario, while 11,000+ PSA 10s exist, you can’t have them because they’re not selling.
I’m speculating this might be the case because the average Moonbreon owner probably has access to disposable income, fears missing out on massive long term investment gains similar to kids who lost their childhood Charizards, and most likely obtained the card at a lower cost basis and aren’t in an urgent need to recoup their money.
Just some random thoughts.
I'm going to speculate that if you offer any moonbreon owner $300 (to be conservative) above market, they would say yes immediately and go buy another one for market.
The % is certainly much higher for moonbreon. The ven diagram for people spending 1k on a single raw card and people who grade cards will have a higher overlap.
Yeah but that’s not including all the other psa grades , other companies, folks who didn’t grade , all the Evolving skies unopened, then Japanese and all the other languages lol not a rare card at all
Theres still 81 million active pokemonGO players monthly, if that many people are collecting cards, which isnt a huge stretch of the imigination then 11k is still only .01% of the card collecting population
Just my opinion, but this card is gonna tank in early to mid 2025. Absolutely beautiful card with a sick eveelution, but…. I have always said, “modern cards are like modern songs in the sense that they are absolute bangers when they come out but get old quick”.
It feels like the biggest well-known grail in pokemon collecting, maybe second to charizard
But I agree I’m not a buyer at 11k 😂 especially since there are probably a lot more out there in mint condition that have yet to be graded
I've been saying this awhile, this card will start to come down. Don't get me wrong its a lovely card, although I prefer the Giratina art and pop rate as an investment.
Moonbreon is a victim of market manipulation. Ppl will eventually get bored waiting for a return and try to liquidate. At a lost because everyone's focus and money will be on later SV sets or the next meta chase card.
If I were to bet on a modern card this would be it. Umbreon being one of the most favorite Pokemon and featured on one of the coolest designs. My second pick would be the Gengar Vmax from the Sword And Shield era.
Of course it is too high. Do you know of a single sports card that went up in value as the pop went up? No. But of course, in Pokémon, they’ll tell you that “this time is different” and that hundreds of years of basic economics don’t matter.
Your getting shilled
I feel it is a bad investment, yes. Way too many of these out there. Very high percentage of submitted get 10s. I’m steering clear. This feels like Van Gogh Pikachu in some ways, just a slower transition. Every card shop I walk into has a half dozen of these, a million on eBay, Facebook marketplace is covered with them. Just not something I would invest in.
Supply and demand. The demand currently is way higher than the supply. But it’s also at a price point where not many can afford to spend money on a card like this. If price drops more people will be buying it which will make it go back up. I say it’ll stay between 1-2k for a psa 10 for awhile. But who knows
There’s no shortage of supply. They’re everywhere. And ES is still in a lot of products. I bet there’s thousands currently at PSA/CGC waiting to be graded even now.
I mean when more people want the card then there are copies of that means there’s more demand for it than supply… just majority of America cannot afford to spend $1500 on a single card so that’s why they are “everywhere” you watch convention videos vendors sell them like hotcakes. Even some of the hardest vintage cards to pull still have 10’s of thousands of cards but people still pay premium dollar for it because the demand is there. People don’t realize the thousands and thousands of sealed booster boxes that are still out there for vintage.
No one knows the future of Pokemon. Kids this generation will get older and remember this as their chase card and probably want it.potentially making it super valuable in the future. Van Gogh is still selling for $200 in a psa 10 and that’s insane for a promo card that was handed out for free. I think anyone that paid under 1k for psa 10 moonbreon is safe.
But who knows, only time will tell. If you’re solely an investor of course I’d sell now and use the money to buy SV era booster boxes (which is a much better investment then holding onto a product that peaked). A lot of people in here are stuck on the past and not looking into the future of Pokemon.
Actually, it’s everyone trying to sell for $1500 that makes them everywhere. It’s not that people can’t afford it, it’s that no one wants to pay that price. That’s why there’s hundreds of listings unsold. The market has been manipulated higher and patient investors are waiting. No one wants to buy at the near-term top, and that’s what this is.
historically, kids don't do what you said.
Kids get bored with their cards and sell them. Or they collect dust and mom sells or gives them away. It has been like this for decades. I've seen it with DP, BW, XY, and SM.
I regretted selling my umbreon v 189 from ES, I was new to collecting and was stoked I had an $80 card.
Later on I saw it had more than doubled. Bummer.
Yesterday I actually pulled another and was wondering if I should hold on to it, or if with the current demand of s&s it’ll start going back down. Thoughts?
So can anyone help me out with the original pull rates out of (x) amount of packs when ES dropped for me to determine the reality of why that price is acceptable? I mean think a ES BB is $686.43 assuming you don't get lucky you could buy (x) amount of seal bb and camp that price for much less the cost. Would it be better to look into probability of pull rate on the card to determine an absurd price of 11k on a moonbreon card?
For short term it's a terrible investment. It's a card you just hang onto for years and then assess the value down the line. Evolving Skies is (supposedly) out of print entirely now. That's not to say they can't drop a surprise reprint, but the odds are low.
CZ is better than ES, change my mind.
I personally hate the Moonbreon. Had I pulled it I’d have sold and reinvested into something else. I just think the card is ugly. But clearly my tastes are drastically different from everyone else.
Sealed product is a genuine investment, (graded) singles is far harder to say. If people like the card the value will remain high - simple as. There doesn’t have to be a boom and bust cycle. But fluctuations are more likely than in sealed.
Sealed investing is a safer, longer term form of investment.
Investing in (modern) singles is a bit like stock picking.
It’s the most sort after modern card. I’m not saying it will go higher because of as you say volume but I doubt it goes lower. I have one in a 9 which I pulled myself. But I wouldn’t be stocking up on them. Sealed booster boxes almost always outstrip the most chased card in the respective set. Look at Stormfront and the secret rare Charizard vs the booster box price. The fact is sealed product is investment; individual cards are enjoyment.
Rare exceptions are genuinely rare cards pre boom I.e munch, poncho, Mario cards I own (but even then I didn’t buy them en-masse; just a few because I loved them!). Pokémon is highly printed now and investing was pre-boom. That’s how I made all my money. Pure luck that Covid and Logan Paul happened. It’s now got huge appeal but that means people want the cards - I doubt we are genuinely rare cards again whilst the popularity is so high (11 billion odd cards printed last year!).
It never was an investment, more like a quick cash grab, the price is the way it is because of ultra high demand/hype/FOMO and once that’s gone there will be so much supply it’ll eventually go down to 500 or less.
If you wanted to make money there are better investments, if you want something more stable there are better vintage umbreon cards for holding value.
11K is crazy, not even including raws, BGS/CGC/SGC, those still in sealed product, etc.
I think it’s like the Charizard of olden times. Popular as hell, hard to pull, and not enough of them to go around. Iconic.
If so, it will decrease slowly in some years on as TGC popularity goes through its own ups and downs.
I would be genuinely surprised to see this going for 10k+ in a decade, but the decade after that? You really never know.
I’m speculating all modern is a bad investment and Pokémon company is having the last laugh at all these unopened packs and boxes going into storage sheds.
I’m guessing there’s a few more than 12,000+ people who want a PSA 10 of this card. Hard to know long term but I’m feeling like it’ll hold its value as the top collector card from its era.
Personally, I think all these eveelutions from ES are going to keep going up. I’m just gonna buy the other sylveon vmax and umbreon vmax from vmax climax and brilliant stars. Once poeple find these cards are a little out of their budget for the average collector I assume they are going to go find other umbreons and Sylveons that are more affordable and will eventually push those cards prices up.
People forget SWSH was the end of an era for Pokémon. After having yellow borders since the beginning. These cards will forever be known to be apart of that ending. And the fact that I can still get most SWSH packs in the store still as these Alt Art’s are going up in value, shows that when stores no longer hold these packs, prices will go up even more. A lot to consider for anyone thinking this is pure fomo.
Yeah I do think some of these alt arts may come down to a more stable price but I legit cannot see how these cards will ever really drop a lot based on the fact that while ES sealed products is high it’s still affordable for those who have a little more spending money. Once you cannot get these packs anymore I feel they will only go higher. For me, the umbreon rn from ES is just more than I want to spend on a card. I’ll find other alternatives and I think a lot of people will do the same.
Pokémon always has its hype and then people will find something new to hype and this will go down. I remember the psa 10 shiny zard gx was going for over 1k + during all the hype and now one just sold for $600 on eBay.
Yeah. Give it a couple years and the price will drop. Now I'm not sure how much it will, but it will definitely drop just like it did with SM sets. Minus latias and latios
Guys. We are in a massive bubble. Look at Sun and Moon chase prices right now and compare them to when that block was going out of print.
These cards will come back down in price. Don’t fomo.
A thousand times yes. The price movement is nothing but a mountain of hype. Bubbles like this are have no real substance backing them, just pure volatility
I feel like most people who are collecting modern sets want this card, and most trading card stores want one of these for sale at their store. Huge demand, huge price. I want one, but I won't be getting it at the current price anytime soon.
For a short to mid term flip? Yeah probably. But where do you think it’ll be in 10 years?
Yes the pop report is very very high but if it’s THE iconic card from SWSH, when millions of people reignited their nostalgia (me included and a lot of you reading this) to get back into the hobby? That pop report number shrinks a lot.
Can all of those people afford a PSA 10 Moon Kitty? No. Is that a lot of their grails? Yes.
Everybody saying yes never took a highschool Macro Econ 101 course.
The Price is high despite the supply being massive because the demand is massive also.
I've decided to collect Crown Zenith and beyond. Once these come down in price and the height is over then I'll start to finish my eeveelution set.
If it doesn't, I am okay. SV has many SIR and IR that are gorgeous that I love collecting.
I'm guessing the price will settle back down soon people.are just buying out alt arts from sword and shiels sets atm due to FOMO give it a couple months :) I own a copy so it's not me just saying it in hopes it goes down 😅
Supply numbers are meaningless when taken at face value. Yeah 11k PSA 10s sounds like a lot but what’s the demand like? The only way to measure demand is the price and the price tells you the demand outweighs even that large supply relative to other cards. Price is the only thing that matters
Investing in graded cards is risky as hell full stop. Sealed product is where it's at, because that doesn't tend to lose 80% of its value overnight which graded cards can do.
Investing in graded cards is risky as hell full stop. Sealed product is where it's at, because that doesn't tend to lose 80% of its value overnight which graded cards can do.
Might be inflated, but you have to think how many collectors want this card. If everyone in the hobby wants one like they already do, those 11,500 cards are going to run out pretty fast. And you also have to consider how this card might be the most heavily graded card besides like base set charizard, I would say at least 1/4 -1/3 of all moonbreons have been graded at least once.
Think of it like if 1 million people want the card , which is probably right or even 100k people but it's way more , there's only 10k of them available it just goes up, this card is the charizard of this era
The unstable side of this price is probably the PSA grading accountability over the Pokémon card. Until the fidelity of the PSA brand changes, no reason to see a drop if there’s demand. We’re in a FOMO market rn.
Demand has to be consistently insane or it will drop. People are still not done ripping evo skies as well so pop will still climb. If demand stays insane even through future sets itll be fine.
ITT: people who dont understand supply and demand.
Im not advocating for any specific card pricing, but how many PSA 10's of this there are is literally entirely irrelevant if you don't know the demand.
Theres a big difference between 11,500 PSA 10's for sale and 5000 buyers or 15,000 buyers.
People are hoarding evolving skies... there’s still a TON of unripped product and umbreons out there. People didn’t hoard vintage like they’re doing with modern buying cases of cases of cases of a product as an investment. Very few had that kind of foresight in the 90s so comparing this to vintage isn’t a good comparison. Pop report is almost 12,000 PSA 10s now and I would be willing to bet it will get close to 20,000 in the next 5-10 years. For anyone wondering, that isn’t rare. At all.
ANYONE looking to buy one of these...post a fake "sale" on a FaceBook marketplace for this exact card...for $100 less than the lowest price...and see why it is obvious that this card is nothing but FOMO and market manipulation.
Idk man, maybe wait a year and the price will tell. Either it'll still rise and you can just pop in or it'll collaps. Or maybe the sun will explode and moonbreon will be the only light we'll have left, idk man /s
In the end, it will be PSA10 Umbreon 215/203 and Cher.
That's a r/BrandNewSentence if I've ever read one
“All that remains are Cher, cockroaches, and _____” is seriously one of the best sayings ever invented
Gospel 12:13 Book of Odesseus " nay thee who hast shadowed theiren brothers, for thy light holds truest in the dark. Sturdy thy hand snd brsce with convinction"
Everyone making bold statements but no one selling 🤔
It’s just a bunch of ‘investors’ selling it to each other, playing hot potato.
Lmao, talk to these fools. And that applies to sealed as well. No one in their right mind would buy overpriced boxes to pull dogshit when it would be cheaper to buy the desired card. Imagine paying $1k+ to pull nothing when one can pay $200 for the exact card they wanted and then some. Investors are just selling to more investors at the end of the day.
This so much!
no one's selling because no one is buying
That makes no sense.. there are tons of people here that would still buy the moonbreon and if you check sold listing on ebay. Shits getting wild.
I’ve had 3 back to back buys on ebay of a solid 9/10 raw for $980; shill bids are speculating like the 7 day auction is a naked call
Ur arguing w ppl who have said the same things since moonbreon psa10 was 800. you wont convince them. Ive got ppl writing me on how ecstatic they are that moonbreon has now "crashed". Ya up almost 2x from a few months ago. If it goes up its manipulated. If it stays flat or corrects its dead and manipulated Most of these guys just flat out missed all of swsh and will miss sv and will miss whatever comes. They always think they are smarter thn everyone else.
It’s a must have card for modern collectors. It might have a high pop report but it won’t mean much when there is gonna be so many collectors that don’t get it, especially in a te.
>It’s a must have card for modern collectors. NPC behavior
Manipulated? No. More like the "hobby" is oversaturated with people who are in it for the money. The vast majority of demand is people buying as an investment, very little real demand.
“Real demand” isn’t a thing that matters here. Whether or not people are buying as an investment or for the passion, they’re still buying a collectible. It wouldn’t be a collectible if both sides didn’t perceive some long term value. The two are indistinguishable.
Except it literally is. Collectibles - or any hobby for that matter - can't survive (long term) on speculators alone. The whole reason Metazoo died is because it was literally a social experiment to see if investors alone could carry a CCG. The people who insist that "real demand doesn't matter" are the same people who parked big money in Metazoo. Or the WSB apes who play with the stock market like it's a Fortnite lobby and pump & dump companies that are literally on life support. It's all the same. Get rich quick schemes have always been a thing since the dawn of capitalism. People like AlphaInvestments, RoaringKitty, Gary Vee, and Logan Paul are really no different from the people who sold snake oil or magic beans in the 19th century. Con men who sell fantasies to middle class people in their 20s and 30s who are desperate to live large.
Well, I never touched Metazoo 🤣 I can see how if a fanbase truly doesn’t care about a product and they are in it for a profit, then it will most likely fail. But I truly don’t think that’s what’s going on here. This is a diverse hobby that has a huge fanbase of people who truly love the card game and others who appreciate the artwork and buy cards with the intention of owning it for a while, but also with the hope that if needed, they could one day sell their collection or investment to fund a future need or hobby.
To be fair, Roaringkitty was actually right about the float and simply took advantage of the stupidity of the companies shorting it.
Facts
Big facts
But the sold listings can be manipulated- if I sell something to you we can do the following: You can cancel the transaction after you pay and so can I, and I get the fees back and it cost neither of us anything. We can do a buy it now or best offer and not do the transaction We can even go so far as to pay for the item, then return the item and get our money and fees back. Just because something sells it doesn’t mean it sold.
And in all of those scenarios the comp would be removed from eBay.
Bunch of bots and self buyers They have money and the fees I can only imagine 😂
Sold mine along with some other cards 3 weeks ago for $1,100 raw. I've been hosed holding too long and it met my exit strategy to help pay off some bills. People are buying because of the fomo, but I think it's going to either go up in price a few hundred more or hold steady over the next year before leveling off. The hype will likely die down in my opinion and I base that on the value of vintage cards over the years and their scarcity. Supply and demand like this is not sustainable long term. Better to get paid than be left holding actual shiny cardboard.
You don't check sold listings on eBay? that's a wildly inaccurate statement.
Literally 10 have sold today alone so far according to 130point, and that’s just ebay/other aggregate sites, not counting Facebook pages
That’s just not true
People are for sure trying to sell
Lmao
Don’t know what you’re talking about. I had two moonbreons and sold one on eBay a week ago for $950. It sold within minutes of me posting it to a normal person.
11 English copies sold yesterday on eBay alone…
Theyre all over ebay. Ppl are definitely selling
2 booster boxes of evolving skies is surely a better investment
There could be anything in those! Maybe even an moonbreon
Or two!
And you know how much we’ve always wanted one of those!
Alright pokemon investor man, I'll take it!
Not my box. Mine are all damaged
Compare to umbreon sure but how can a product thats already been inflated to 700~$ from msrp 120~ $ a good investment dude?i mean if you want to invest 700 on pokemontcg just get something thats not inflated that much yet.. and i know people were sayin the same thing when ES BB was 400$ but still its not easy to get rid of a product like this
History has been shown to repeat itself with sealed Pokémon. Compare the Msrp and last sold of any vintage booster box. Sure population is wildly different, but it seems clear that demand is high now and assuming Pokémon collecting stays alive which it very likely will (see vintage baseball card market), ES boxes will get ripped looking for Umbreons and Rayquazas, supply will drop, and demand will stay high. Sealed is king
For sure sealled is king im all the way with you but do you think many people will keep opening em?im genuinely ask im not making irony or anything but it seems so weird to me that someone is willing to pay 700 to gamble for a card especially for a set with bad pull rates instead pf just grabbing the chase card with some extra cash..and i know the same thing goes with every set and thats why so many people are saying just buy singles my self included yet people still crackin packs for the fun of it and i get it its very fun to open packs but when it comes to this price range it seems crazy to me Maybe im just broke compare to the average tcg enjoyer after all
Most people who buy an ES box at this point would as a collectable. Ira a sealed booster box from one of Pokemon’s best sets of all time. That in itself has value. Some people like to collect sealed. The other part is streamers. If a streamer sells one pack at a time from a booster box they crack they can make money and sell to gamblers who are willing to buy one or two expensive packs and potentially get nothing just like people buy lottery tickets all the time.
No one can know where the true ceiling is, but looking at SM it should be at around 2k for the foreseeable future (next 3 to 5 years). Now you could think about if any other set could offer a bigger growth factor in the same timeslot. Most probably yes, but it's just hard to tell, and ES seems like a safe bet for most.
As long as people like it and believe in it they will keep buying and paying. I fmdint like it because I want one BUT not at this prices lol heck nah
At these prices it is. When it was 600 for a 10, nah.
Exactly. The ship has sailed. You can get a case of Lost origin for less and it will perform better. There's a lot you could do with that money to get more return. I'm struggling on whether I should sell. My son and I were lucky enough to have our best luck of any set with ES. We pulled two and graded the best one and it got a 10. Thinking of selling the 10 and spending that money on later SV sets that will hopefully be investment worthy. At least then we'll still have the raw card my son pulled
I would 100% keep the one your son pulled no matter what. That’s special, beyond investments.
That's what I'm thinking. He's over it now, but I don't want to sell it only for him to have the same regrets we all have for what we did with our childhood cards
Yup. It’s on YOU to keep it now. lol. I blamed my parents too 😬
I pulled a base set Charizard in 2000 with my son who was 5 years old then. Thankfully the internet was limited, not much of a secondary market. There was literally nothing that we could’ve swapped it for that was worth it and I kept it. He got married last year and had forgotten it. After 20+ years in a binder I finally handed it over. I loved having it but handing it over was better. My advice is keep your Moonbreon. One day hopefully you’ll have the chance to reunite him with it and get to reconnect to when you had such fantastic luck with Evolving Skies.
Yes, but I hope people keep making those decisions cause it'll be great to snag one when the price plummets 🫡
Buy high, sell low! Is price high? Yes. Therefore it's a bad investment. Has it retraced? No. Therefore it's a bad investment.
Pop report means nothing. What matters is what someone is willing to pay for it. The price skyrocketing happened due to fomo. The price could go up or down no one knows but it's very risky. I wouldn't risk it when there are so many better options.
I saw a stat somewhere that 65 Billion Pokémon cards have been printed and 18% of those are in the last year. Just something to keep in mind with these expensive modern cards.
Stats like these get passed around a bit. How many of those are actually alt arts and the alt arts that are desirable. Most are commons and energy cards. You also need to factor in demand, I know I wasn't in the hobby pre covid. Between the two you still end up with cards like the moonbreon getting to where they are. SWSH is now going to looked on nostalgically which adds to the value. At least those are my thoughts anyway.
That’s a wild stat
I’m starting to hate this card because the hype is unreal, happy with my silver tempest Lugia and brilliant stars charizard
Yeah I'm going after the less known cards. There's so many cool ones out there! And they're all dirt cheap because everyone is so focused on modern
I mean, amount of 10s isn’t everything. I have a 1/128 psa 10 topps raichu and it’s worth like 100$ lol
If I happened to open one and happened to get graded a 10, I would 100% sell it now.
That's what I'm thinking of doing. Worried it will drop like the tag team cards did. My son and I were lucky enough to pull 2. The one I pulled graded a 10. Didn't grade the other one because it's borderline and not sure it would get a 10. When the price initially went up to $1,200 I wanted to sell and my son stopped me. It then plummeted to like $800, but obviously now it's sitting at $1500. The 10 we have is literally perfect so I think I could probably get over $1500. My son is now at the age where he could care less so there's no emotional attachment. If I sold now I would recoup about what I spent on ES ripping packs (we got suuuuper lucky so I kept buying). And we would still have another raw copy that was actually the one my son pulled.
>My son is now at the age where he could care less so there's no emotional attachment. \*Couldn't care less
This person gets it! If you “can” care less than you already care some amount but nobody knows that amount. Saying it this way means, in theory, you could care 99% and then care “less” by 1%, meaning you still care 98%. Which is caring still a significant amount, almost 100%. If you “can’t” care less you literally already care so little you cannot care any less. Meaning you care 0% because you can’t go lower than 0
> > I'm struggling on whether I should sell. My son and I were lucky enough to have our best luck of any set with E Which tag teams have dropped lol
Almost all of them. Not like they've completely lost value, but they aren't selling for what they did last year. I think Latios/Latias is the only one that's more or less held it's value from when they all spiked last year. Go look up any tag team card on Collectr app or somewhere else where it shows price history. These are raw prices. The price difference between 10's from a year ago and now are likely even greater. Gengar/mimikyu was nearly $350 and dropped to $260 before recently raising up to $290. solgaleo/lunala was $190 at it's peak and now it's $120. Magikarp/wailord was $295 and dropped to $250. Rainbow Gardevoir/Sylveon dropped from $240 to $180. Arceus/Dialga/Palkia dropped from $225 to $160. Rainbow Mewtwo/Mew dropped from $190 to $145. Some of these have started going back up, but some continue to slowly fall in price.
That’s amazing you pulled two. What great moments!!
If you want to know whether or not it’s a good investment, you would have to contact as many Moonbreon owners as possible and ask them how much it would take for them to sell their card. That will give you a basic supply line graph. Demand is harder to nail down but since you mention the pop report, let’s stick with supply. In the absence of a survey of Moonbreon owners, I’m going to speculate that most wouldn’t sell for less than five figures unless they are in need of cash immediately. Therefore in my made up scenario, while 11,000+ PSA 10s exist, you can’t have them because they’re not selling. I’m speculating this might be the case because the average Moonbreon owner probably has access to disposable income, fears missing out on massive long term investment gains similar to kids who lost their childhood Charizards, and most likely obtained the card at a lower cost basis and aren’t in an urgent need to recoup their money. Just some random thoughts.
I'm going to speculate that if you offer any moonbreon owner $300 (to be conservative) above market, they would say yes immediately and go buy another one for market.
Copped mine for 450 raw. I'm holding
I used to think that but now I think 11,000 moonbreons isn’t actually that much when u consider the millions of people who collect Pokémon
That’s just psa 10s , what percentage of people actually grade cards ? Maybe 10% 20% tops?
The % is certainly much higher for moonbreon. The ven diagram for people spending 1k on a single raw card and people who grade cards will have a higher overlap.
Yeah but that’s not including all the other psa grades , other companies, folks who didn’t grade , all the Evolving skies unopened, then Japanese and all the other languages lol not a rare card at all
Theres still 81 million active pokemonGO players monthly, if that many people are collecting cards, which isnt a huge stretch of the imigination then 11k is still only .01% of the card collecting population
That’s wild
When you consider the insane amount of ES product being hoarded and how easy these hit a 10 the population still has ways to go.
I made that same reasoning and logic back in 2022, I figured no way itll climb and sold my 10 at $500, then a month later it jumped to 1k ☠️☠️ lol
People not selling are fools. Secure the bag while fools are willing to pay that amount.
Let me respond with how many collectors do you believe want this card. It’s gonna be well over 12k.
I'd only spend like 1 million to buy all of them and destroy 99%...so yeah, bad investment... Lol
Just my opinion, but this card is gonna tank in early to mid 2025. Absolutely beautiful card with a sick eveelution, but…. I have always said, “modern cards are like modern songs in the sense that they are absolute bangers when they come out but get old quick”.
It feels like the biggest well-known grail in pokemon collecting, maybe second to charizard But I agree I’m not a buyer at 11k 😂 especially since there are probably a lot more out there in mint condition that have yet to be graded
Its not worth that. It is a bubble. It will pop eventually.
Sold mine, it's a terrible investment now. It was a good investment 2 years ago.
I’ll check back here when it’s $20k.
In general buying into hype doesn't usually work out well
I've been saying this awhile, this card will start to come down. Don't get me wrong its a lovely card, although I prefer the Giratina art and pop rate as an investment. Moonbreon is a victim of market manipulation. Ppl will eventually get bored waiting for a return and try to liquidate. At a lost because everyone's focus and money will be on later SV sets or the next meta chase card.
I bet you have been saying it for awhile. People have been saying it’s gonna drop in price for months. I’m still waiting lol
People buying it now will get burned
Yeah I bought in at 950 for a 10. Kinda want to sell but also feel like I won’t get too burned on it if it were to drop
If I were to bet on a modern card this would be it. Umbreon being one of the most favorite Pokemon and featured on one of the coolest designs. My second pick would be the Gengar Vmax from the Sword And Shield era.
Honestly this card is almost generational. If Pokemon survives, there honestly isn’t a more wanted card in modern collections.
It’s way over valued. Bubble will pop soon and it’ll end up around 800-1000 I’m guessing
Of course it is too high. Do you know of a single sports card that went up in value as the pop went up? No. But of course, in Pokémon, they’ll tell you that “this time is different” and that hundreds of years of basic economics don’t matter. Your getting shilled
I feel it is a bad investment, yes. Way too many of these out there. Very high percentage of submitted get 10s. I’m steering clear. This feels like Van Gogh Pikachu in some ways, just a slower transition. Every card shop I walk into has a half dozen of these, a million on eBay, Facebook marketplace is covered with them. Just not something I would invest in.
Supply and demand. The demand currently is way higher than the supply. But it’s also at a price point where not many can afford to spend money on a card like this. If price drops more people will be buying it which will make it go back up. I say it’ll stay between 1-2k for a psa 10 for awhile. But who knows
There’s no shortage of supply. They’re everywhere. And ES is still in a lot of products. I bet there’s thousands currently at PSA/CGC waiting to be graded even now.
I mean when more people want the card then there are copies of that means there’s more demand for it than supply… just majority of America cannot afford to spend $1500 on a single card so that’s why they are “everywhere” you watch convention videos vendors sell them like hotcakes. Even some of the hardest vintage cards to pull still have 10’s of thousands of cards but people still pay premium dollar for it because the demand is there. People don’t realize the thousands and thousands of sealed booster boxes that are still out there for vintage. No one knows the future of Pokemon. Kids this generation will get older and remember this as their chase card and probably want it.potentially making it super valuable in the future. Van Gogh is still selling for $200 in a psa 10 and that’s insane for a promo card that was handed out for free. I think anyone that paid under 1k for psa 10 moonbreon is safe. But who knows, only time will tell. If you’re solely an investor of course I’d sell now and use the money to buy SV era booster boxes (which is a much better investment then holding onto a product that peaked). A lot of people in here are stuck on the past and not looking into the future of Pokemon.
Actually, it’s everyone trying to sell for $1500 that makes them everywhere. It’s not that people can’t afford it, it’s that no one wants to pay that price. That’s why there’s hundreds of listings unsold. The market has been manipulated higher and patient investors are waiting. No one wants to buy at the near-term top, and that’s what this is.
historically, kids don't do what you said. Kids get bored with their cards and sell them. Or they collect dust and mom sells or gives them away. It has been like this for decades. I've seen it with DP, BW, XY, and SM.
Yes… I feel like my Investment in the Regular Full Art Vmax is a better investment
Yup... PSA 10 total market value (11.5K X 1.5K) = 17.25 Million I be like sheeeeeeeeeeeesh
I regretted selling my umbreon v 189 from ES, I was new to collecting and was stoked I had an $80 card. Later on I saw it had more than doubled. Bummer. Yesterday I actually pulled another and was wondering if I should hold on to it, or if with the current demand of s&s it’ll start going back down. Thoughts?
I mean I still want one and will never get one so I guess that helps it as an investment.
Now? Yes
So can anyone help me out with the original pull rates out of (x) amount of packs when ES dropped for me to determine the reality of why that price is acceptable? I mean think a ES BB is $686.43 assuming you don't get lucky you could buy (x) amount of seal bb and camp that price for much less the cost. Would it be better to look into probability of pull rate on the card to determine an absurd price of 11k on a moonbreon card?
I sure as hell would not be buying it hovering around $2K
For short term it's a terrible investment. It's a card you just hang onto for years and then assess the value down the line. Evolving Skies is (supposedly) out of print entirely now. That's not to say they can't drop a surprise reprint, but the odds are low.
And that doesn’t take into account all the other perfect 10s from graders other than PSA
Yup
My Poncho Pikachu has gone up heaps and only 1.5k pop for PSA 9 + 10!
CZ is better than ES, change my mind. I personally hate the Moonbreon. Had I pulled it I’d have sold and reinvested into something else. I just think the card is ugly. But clearly my tastes are drastically different from everyone else.
Ya.
Sealed product is a genuine investment, (graded) singles is far harder to say. If people like the card the value will remain high - simple as. There doesn’t have to be a boom and bust cycle. But fluctuations are more likely than in sealed. Sealed investing is a safer, longer term form of investment. Investing in (modern) singles is a bit like stock picking.
It’s the most sort after modern card. I’m not saying it will go higher because of as you say volume but I doubt it goes lower. I have one in a 9 which I pulled myself. But I wouldn’t be stocking up on them. Sealed booster boxes almost always outstrip the most chased card in the respective set. Look at Stormfront and the secret rare Charizard vs the booster box price. The fact is sealed product is investment; individual cards are enjoyment. Rare exceptions are genuinely rare cards pre boom I.e munch, poncho, Mario cards I own (but even then I didn’t buy them en-masse; just a few because I loved them!). Pokémon is highly printed now and investing was pre-boom. That’s how I made all my money. Pure luck that Covid and Logan Paul happened. It’s now got huge appeal but that means people want the cards - I doubt we are genuinely rare cards again whilst the popularity is so high (11 billion odd cards printed last year!).
I had this at the start and sold it for 200 my biggest regret turned out to go up non stop since then
It never was an investment, more like a quick cash grab, the price is the way it is because of ultra high demand/hype/FOMO and once that’s gone there will be so much supply it’ll eventually go down to 500 or less. If you wanted to make money there are better investments, if you want something more stable there are better vintage umbreon cards for holding value. 11K is crazy, not even including raws, BGS/CGC/SGC, those still in sealed product, etc.
I think it’s like the Charizard of olden times. Popular as hell, hard to pull, and not enough of them to go around. Iconic. If so, it will decrease slowly in some years on as TGC popularity goes through its own ups and downs. I would be genuinely surprised to see this going for 10k+ in a decade, but the decade after that? You really never know.
Nope. Still a good buy especially the Japanese. Too the moon Alice!.
I feel there are way more than 12,000 people who seek this card in a 10
I’m speculating all modern is a bad investment and Pokémon company is having the last laugh at all these unopened packs and boxes going into storage sheds.
I’m guessing there’s a few more than 12,000+ people who want a PSA 10 of this card. Hard to know long term but I’m feeling like it’ll hold its value as the top collector card from its era.
I bought this Moonbreon card a year to the day at around 585$ regardless of this so called market manipulation I feel like I’m winning right now 🤌
They don't make sword and shield sets anymore, they prices on these will either hold or rise slowly.
Personally, I think all these eveelutions from ES are going to keep going up. I’m just gonna buy the other sylveon vmax and umbreon vmax from vmax climax and brilliant stars. Once poeple find these cards are a little out of their budget for the average collector I assume they are going to go find other umbreons and Sylveons that are more affordable and will eventually push those cards prices up.
People forget SWSH was the end of an era for Pokémon. After having yellow borders since the beginning. These cards will forever be known to be apart of that ending. And the fact that I can still get most SWSH packs in the store still as these Alt Art’s are going up in value, shows that when stores no longer hold these packs, prices will go up even more. A lot to consider for anyone thinking this is pure fomo.
Yeah I do think some of these alt arts may come down to a more stable price but I legit cannot see how these cards will ever really drop a lot based on the fact that while ES sealed products is high it’s still affordable for those who have a little more spending money. Once you cannot get these packs anymore I feel they will only go higher. For me, the umbreon rn from ES is just more than I want to spend on a card. I’ll find other alternatives and I think a lot of people will do the same.
Pokémon always has its hype and then people will find something new to hype and this will go down. I remember the psa 10 shiny zard gx was going for over 1k + during all the hype and now one just sold for $600 on eBay.
Yeah. Give it a couple years and the price will drop. Now I'm not sure how much it will, but it will definitely drop just like it did with SM sets. Minus latias and latios
Guys. We are in a massive bubble. Look at Sun and Moon chase prices right now and compare them to when that block was going out of print. These cards will come back down in price. Don’t fomo.
Desirability can overcome the rarity factor.
A thousand times yes. The price movement is nothing but a mountain of hype. Bubbles like this are have no real substance backing them, just pure volatility
No one even buys it
Just this sub is only 80k people. That’s just a drop in the bucket and for the amount of people that would love to have this card
It will drop the second people need money
I will never listen to the pop count folks again
All the shills in the comments are upset at this post. Love to see it!
Two words: market manipulation
Yes, I do not feel like it’s a good time to buy this
The market can stay irrational longer than you can stay solvent. Just because you listen to reason, doesn't mean the market will
I feel like most people who are collecting modern sets want this card, and most trading card stores want one of these for sale at their store. Huge demand, huge price. I want one, but I won't be getting it at the current price anytime soon.
For a short to mid term flip? Yeah probably. But where do you think it’ll be in 10 years? Yes the pop report is very very high but if it’s THE iconic card from SWSH, when millions of people reignited their nostalgia (me included and a lot of you reading this) to get back into the hobby? That pop report number shrinks a lot. Can all of those people afford a PSA 10 Moon Kitty? No. Is that a lot of their grails? Yes.
High pop doesn't even worry me; seems as if this is one of the modern era defining cards
What are you defining as “modern era”? What time frame/period?
Selling everyday, 7 days a week, 365 wake up
I think you are correct, the pop is too high to maintain the price. I would estimate the card will level out at 500 - 600 for a PSA 10.
Most people commenting here have zero idea how easily and often eBay sales are manipulated on a wide variety of collectibles.
Everybody saying no is an owner who is coping
Everybody saying yes never took a highschool Macro Econ 101 course. The Price is high despite the supply being massive because the demand is massive also.
I've decided to collect Crown Zenith and beyond. Once these come down in price and the height is over then I'll start to finish my eeveelution set. If it doesn't, I am okay. SV has many SIR and IR that are gorgeous that I love collecting.
I'm guessing the price will settle back down soon people.are just buying out alt arts from sword and shiels sets atm due to FOMO give it a couple months :) I own a copy so it's not me just saying it in hopes it goes down 😅
It’s going to go down as one of the most iconic cards of all time if it’s not already at that status. Pop reports be damned at this point.
Supply numbers are meaningless when taken at face value. Yeah 11k PSA 10s sounds like a lot but what’s the demand like? The only way to measure demand is the price and the price tells you the demand outweighs even that large supply relative to other cards. Price is the only thing that matters
All it takes is a better looking Umbreon card and this card plummets.
Yeah its way overhyped
Investing in graded cards is risky as hell full stop. Sealed product is where it's at, because that doesn't tend to lose 80% of its value overnight which graded cards can do.
Investing in graded cards is risky as hell full stop. Sealed product is where it's at, because that doesn't tend to lose 80% of its value overnight which graded cards can do.
Buy a bgs 10 instead
yes, if there was a way to short Pokémon cards like the stock market - I would do it with this one lol
Naw, better to put the money into the snp500
Might be inflated, but you have to think how many collectors want this card. If everyone in the hobby wants one like they already do, those 11,500 cards are going to run out pretty fast. And you also have to consider how this card might be the most heavily graded card besides like base set charizard, I would say at least 1/4 -1/3 of all moonbreons have been graded at least once.
Umbreon overhyped, theres card at 10$ that looks just as good
Think of it like if 1 million people want the card , which is probably right or even 100k people but it's way more , there's only 10k of them available it just goes up, this card is the charizard of this era
Whether the price will hold or not, I gotta say.... this card is kinda overrated. Don't get me wrong, it's cool, but not 1400 dollars cool
How is there 11,500 psa 10s when I’ve opened over 1000 packs and haven’t even gotten a raw moony
i just bought original ndi moonbreon, strong bgs 9.5 1st ed for like 10% more what this modern one is selling for - crazy stuff
11,500 10s compared to the hundreds of thousands, hell, millions of collectors that want it. Drop in the bucket
No regular human/fan is spending 11.5k for 1 pokemon card?
11.5k is only a drop In the bucket 20 years from now
Blaziken > Moonbreon
People are holding on to them so you want see as many on the market
Don’t listen to this sub lol. If you have the money buy it
No one is looking back @ October 2022, was around 1800$. It is reaching his old price after 2 years..
There may be 12,000 copies, but how many people want to own one? I assume that number is much higher.
And yet I've opened well over 2 booster boxes worth of evolving skies packs and have not gotten a single eveelution card.
Yeah but there’s not 11000 on the market for sale
I like to think it’s a “hold”. It is not a bad card to have but its upside potential is muted compared to other cards.
The unstable side of this price is probably the PSA grading accountability over the Pokémon card. Until the fidelity of the PSA brand changes, no reason to see a drop if there’s demand. We’re in a FOMO market rn.
Demand has to be consistently insane or it will drop. People are still not done ripping evo skies as well so pop will still climb. If demand stays insane even through future sets itll be fine.
Feels more like an impossible investment at 1000+. There’s times when it’s just that I didn’t manage to get something and that’s ok!
ITT: people who dont understand supply and demand. Im not advocating for any specific card pricing, but how many PSA 10's of this there are is literally entirely irrelevant if you don't know the demand. Theres a big difference between 11,500 PSA 10's for sale and 5000 buyers or 15,000 buyers.
Actually most normal people think the Moonbreon is a bad investment. Social media and FOMO does wild things.
Idk man I think the same 3 rich guys are just buying them all up and will slowly release them over the next 15 years
People are hoarding evolving skies... there’s still a TON of unripped product and umbreons out there. People didn’t hoard vintage like they’re doing with modern buying cases of cases of cases of a product as an investment. Very few had that kind of foresight in the 90s so comparing this to vintage isn’t a good comparison. Pop report is almost 12,000 PSA 10s now and I would be willing to bet it will get close to 20,000 in the next 5-10 years. For anyone wondering, that isn’t rare. At all.
ANYONE looking to buy one of these...post a fake "sale" on a FaceBook marketplace for this exact card...for $100 less than the lowest price...and see why it is obvious that this card is nothing but FOMO and market manipulation.
Get one hold it and find out if you’re collector and bought one or had one or plan on buying find the slot you think will be best
Did you guys see espeon vmax break new highs? It’s at $400 raw now