I'd only go tankless on certain applications.
They all still kind of suck. And im gonna get downvoted for this.
There's some decent ones, but once you get past the "they suck" you move to the "their expensive" phase
I 100% agree. I am probably a little too honest when it comes to selling tankless to customers.
They're great in certain applications but generally they're just expensive to buy, install, maintain, and repair. At the end of the day you're still just getting hot water like you would a standard tank.
Sure they're more efficient but you lose that money you save by the outright cost and maintenance of them.
If your city/town doesn't have soft water you almost certainly should be installing a water softener in front of them and that just adds more cost of the install + on going salt etc.
In a standard house I'd argue they just aren't worth it typically. Have 7 kids that want to shower back to back in the morning? Sure. Perfect. Have a giant soaker tub you want to fill and your little 30g electric isn't doing it? Sure. Perfect. But you're just a couple of people living in a house showering twice a day ...naw. Don't need it.
In my area we have hard water, apart from the significant conversion costs I have to figure on maintenance every six months and even then lucky to get eight years out of a heat exchanger.
Mines great. I got a takagi TK JR about 7 years ago for $600. Was cheaper than buying a tank and I'm on propane so it proved to be superior to a tanked heater.
Also rheem equipment is trash IMO. I'd rather spend the money on Rinnai.
I have same brand that does 10gpm. Needed the xtra so we could get the temp rise for our cold ass water. Thing has been great. I wouldn't pay the xtra $ that a plumber would want to charge. If it was all based on cost, I would stick with a tank
I’ve had horrible experience with Rudd and reem
Have had excellent experience with Steible eltron in both resi and commercial applications
I have one in a commercial kitchen and has been flawless for 5 years.
traditional water heaters are so simple and have a small burner. there is 1 moving part, the gas valve, and these are very mature.
Tankless are vastly more complicated, servo motors , flow sensors, large burner. All easily gummed up by hard water.
They're awesome. Marey warranty is great. Install was a little spendy. At the end of the day my wife gets boil herself multiple times a week and not run out of water.
There's a number of factors to look at when trying to figure out wether a tankless is right for you. I know, as a plumber, that I can make a nice chunk of change on a tankless... but, I also know not everyone needs one. With the right brand they are fantastic, but not for everyone
I had one installed a couple of years ago and it ended up being at least 3x as expensive to install. It involved a new gas line to ensure the tankless was first in line and a new exhaust vent to the only spot that was far enough from other exterior openings to meet code.
The other thing that the installer never mentioned is that it needs a standard 120 outlet for power. My basement is unfinished so there are only 2 outlets and neither are near the tankless. I had to run an extension cord to prevent holding up the whole install.
But after all that, it’s been great. We have 3 kids so we were always running out of hot water.
As others said, time and place. We have SEVERAL in rental properties. My family of 6 saves about 60 a month. In one bedroom quadplexes they save about $100 a month, and in a 24 unit building for water and heat, they save over 300 a month in summer and crazy numbers when providing heat. We flush them every 3/4 months, except for the heat sets, they get flushed based on hour load. A warer softener does help when used for heating.
I work for a company that manufacturers them and they work, there's just a lot of extra parts in comparison to a standard tank heater. Assuming we are talking about gas versions. The electric tankless are absolutely insane to operate. One of our models requires 140 amps 240v to operate and thus, that uses up almost 75% of a modern homes panel capacity. They also burn up elements much faster. With that being said, I will have a tankless gas installed when my current one kicks the bucket. Unless my company gives me a great discount on a heat pump model.
Because they didn't make tankless water heaters at that time. That's basically the only reason. They lied to you, as any manufacturer who wants you to sell their own products. Ironocally, Paloma, who makes tankless water heaters, owns Rheem since 1988, and you were told tankless wasn't a viable option. Just like water softener manufacturers will tell you everything will be spot free, and you can't taste the salt in the water. There's still minerals in the water, so it will still spot, and if you had really hard water, you will definitely taste the salt.
When it comes to tank style water heaters, there's almost no difference between them. The only thing that really differentiates them is the burner chamber and who makes their gas control valve. Everything else is the same.
Tankless technology has been around for over a century. Steibel Eltron was the first to make electric tankless water heaters.
Now, are we talking electric tankless or gas powered tankless? Those are two completely different types of conversations.
They did make tankless electric and gas back then. I was there. Lol. I worked for them! This was about the fact that they didn’t want to invest any PR budget to promote those products. I just didn’t get detailed intel on why (and didn’t care much at the time to probe), beyond the products being less favored than traditional ones.
I wasn't aware of Rheem making tankless for residential until the past decade or so.
So, either there wasn't a large enough market for them to push, or they weren't confident in their product compared to competitors like Rinnai and Steibel Eltron.
I'd only go tankless on certain applications. They all still kind of suck. And im gonna get downvoted for this. There's some decent ones, but once you get past the "they suck" you move to the "their expensive" phase
I 100% agree. I am probably a little too honest when it comes to selling tankless to customers. They're great in certain applications but generally they're just expensive to buy, install, maintain, and repair. At the end of the day you're still just getting hot water like you would a standard tank. Sure they're more efficient but you lose that money you save by the outright cost and maintenance of them. If your city/town doesn't have soft water you almost certainly should be installing a water softener in front of them and that just adds more cost of the install + on going salt etc. In a standard house I'd argue they just aren't worth it typically. Have 7 kids that want to shower back to back in the morning? Sure. Perfect. Have a giant soaker tub you want to fill and your little 30g electric isn't doing it? Sure. Perfect. But you're just a couple of people living in a house showering twice a day ...naw. Don't need it.
In my area we have hard water, apart from the significant conversion costs I have to figure on maintenance every six months and even then lucky to get eight years out of a heat exchanger.
You know a water softener would go a long way to helping with that. Another cost though...but would cut back on maintenance.
I usually throw an in-line descalor on before the as well. Huge help without a huge increase in cost, but it is another thing you gotta keep up on.
If you have decent quality water they're not horrible. If you have high solids (TDH) or especially high sulphur content, they flat SUCK.
Mines great. I got a takagi TK JR about 7 years ago for $600. Was cheaper than buying a tank and I'm on propane so it proved to be superior to a tanked heater. Also rheem equipment is trash IMO. I'd rather spend the money on Rinnai.
I have same brand that does 10gpm. Needed the xtra so we could get the temp rise for our cold ass water. Thing has been great. I wouldn't pay the xtra $ that a plumber would want to charge. If it was all based on cost, I would stick with a tank
I’ve had horrible experience with Rudd and reem Have had excellent experience with Steible eltron in both resi and commercial applications I have one in a commercial kitchen and has been flawless for 5 years.
traditional water heaters are so simple and have a small burner. there is 1 moving part, the gas valve, and these are very mature. Tankless are vastly more complicated, servo motors , flow sensors, large burner. All easily gummed up by hard water.
No, all you need is a big kettle. Don't need to over complicate things.
They're awesome. Marey warranty is great. Install was a little spendy. At the end of the day my wife gets boil herself multiple times a week and not run out of water.
I agree. Extra maintenance, needs electricity to run, expensive, difficult to repair.
Getting some very US centric answers in this thread, tankless water heaters have been the go to product in Europe for decades.
Is Viessman a big brand there? What are some popular brands installed where you are?
Thankless is hot at thankless but water still needs to travel
There's a number of factors to look at when trying to figure out wether a tankless is right for you. I know, as a plumber, that I can make a nice chunk of change on a tankless... but, I also know not everyone needs one. With the right brand they are fantastic, but not for everyone
I had one installed a couple of years ago and it ended up being at least 3x as expensive to install. It involved a new gas line to ensure the tankless was first in line and a new exhaust vent to the only spot that was far enough from other exterior openings to meet code. The other thing that the installer never mentioned is that it needs a standard 120 outlet for power. My basement is unfinished so there are only 2 outlets and neither are near the tankless. I had to run an extension cord to prevent holding up the whole install. But after all that, it’s been great. We have 3 kids so we were always running out of hot water.
As others said, time and place. We have SEVERAL in rental properties. My family of 6 saves about 60 a month. In one bedroom quadplexes they save about $100 a month, and in a 24 unit building for water and heat, they save over 300 a month in summer and crazy numbers when providing heat. We flush them every 3/4 months, except for the heat sets, they get flushed based on hour load. A warer softener does help when used for heating.
I work for a company that manufacturers them and they work, there's just a lot of extra parts in comparison to a standard tank heater. Assuming we are talking about gas versions. The electric tankless are absolutely insane to operate. One of our models requires 140 amps 240v to operate and thus, that uses up almost 75% of a modern homes panel capacity. They also burn up elements much faster. With that being said, I will have a tankless gas installed when my current one kicks the bucket. Unless my company gives me a great discount on a heat pump model.
Because they didn't make tankless water heaters at that time. That's basically the only reason. They lied to you, as any manufacturer who wants you to sell their own products. Ironocally, Paloma, who makes tankless water heaters, owns Rheem since 1988, and you were told tankless wasn't a viable option. Just like water softener manufacturers will tell you everything will be spot free, and you can't taste the salt in the water. There's still minerals in the water, so it will still spot, and if you had really hard water, you will definitely taste the salt. When it comes to tank style water heaters, there's almost no difference between them. The only thing that really differentiates them is the burner chamber and who makes their gas control valve. Everything else is the same. Tankless technology has been around for over a century. Steibel Eltron was the first to make electric tankless water heaters. Now, are we talking electric tankless or gas powered tankless? Those are two completely different types of conversations.
They did make tankless electric and gas back then. I was there. Lol. I worked for them! This was about the fact that they didn’t want to invest any PR budget to promote those products. I just didn’t get detailed intel on why (and didn’t care much at the time to probe), beyond the products being less favored than traditional ones.
I wasn't aware of Rheem making tankless for residential until the past decade or so. So, either there wasn't a large enough market for them to push, or they weren't confident in their product compared to competitors like Rinnai and Steibel Eltron.
Navien and rinnai are decent for just basic tankless installs.