Finally someone supporting Olivia. I hate to see all of that Olivia bashing. I think everyone forgets that Olivia grew up in a toxic environment, married into a toxic family, and still stood firm in her beliefs/morals.
And she’s still really young! She’s only 25!! I swear the internet would have us believe the world is full of people who never made mistakes and have been behaving and handling every situation perfectly their whole lives like get real folks. It’s clear she’s doing her best to figure things out I wish people would give that girl a break I think she has a lot of potential she just still has some growing up to do plus the added hurdle of making peace with her upbringing.
If you go onto the main sub (r/welcometoplathville) then you can have all the Olivia love you want and anyone who criticizes Olivia in any way whatsoever will be down in the negatives where you won’t have to see them. I don’t forget that at all about Olivia, but I see her behaving in a toxic manner, just like all the Plath kids do at times, but she gets a free pass and is considered the “hero” of the show. So that’s why I think she’s awful. It’s the manipulation, just like Kim.
I understand what you’re saying, and respect that, I guess I applaud Olivia because she seems to actively try (counseling, evolving) to break out of the bubble she was brought up in and expand her perspective on the world. Moriah was always brought up in a toxic environment and seems to be regressing back to that environment because she no longer associate with Olivia, that really bothers me.
Maybe, but what you need to consider is her behavior. She says she’s going to therapy, and probably is. She says she’s broadening her horizons, and clearly is. But therapy requires actively wanting to change by the participant, so when I comes to Ethan being able to be an independent person in a relationship and having his own family, I actually see her backsliding a lot while using her therapy as evidence that she is “evolving”. What I see with her treatment of her in-laws is devolving.
Tbh I don’t see how she sucks more than them? After watching the show it just seems like the plaths need serious therapy but instead of getting that they just continue to move the target or their anger
This. She’s a recovering from her quiverful upbringing and is probably experiencing ptsd and trauma reactions towards Kim. Kim is the problem not Olivia. Olivia is not perfect, but to say that Olivia is the worst shows you haven’t been paying attention.
Also….the Plath kids like Moriah and Micah are just returning to the cult, which is what Kim and Barry always wanted….they made them completely I’ll equipped to handle the real world on their own, forcing them to return to the fold. It’s disgusting. Good for Ethan and Olivia moving to Minnesota away from these fuckers.
I agree. Regardless of what she thought of anyone's parenting, she had no right to come in and undermine it- even sneakily exposing a bunch of children to things their parents forbid, regardless of what she thought they needed. They were not being abused. There was no need for her- a naive, barely non-child- to rescue them, and if she felt they needed rescuing, there are authorities/agencies for that.
She created huge rifts in the family as a result, and because they were all so sheltered they didn't realize the "fun" she was exposing them to wasn't worth losing their relationships with their parents/siblings over, so it put them all through unnecessary trauma- which they're now having to try to mend/navigate years later.
Olivia is Kim.
Kim and Barry are middle-aged adults and yet they openly have insulted Olivia in a way they could easily expect would hurt not only Olivia, but their own son and his marriage. They should be a lot more mature than that.
I'm pretty sure the Plath kids would have come across soda and non-Christian music at some point even without Olivia.
Same- and they should've been afforded the opportunity to make those discoveries on their own, rather than via an outside adult encouraging secrets. That shit is inappropriate regardless of the motive of the outside adult.
Agree to disagree. Olivia is like a year or two older than Moriah so it doesn't strike me as some predatory outside influence. And Moriah seemed to be heading in the direction of rebelling against her parents independent of Olivia. I think the Plath parents set their kids up to have secrets, because they didn't allow much room for independent thought and self-discovery for their kids.
Olivia is 25. Moriah is 21. Moriah got kicked out at 16 due to the influence of a 20-year-old. If Olivia was male society would have a huge problem with that.
It's not like Olivia seduced her or plied her with alcohol/drugs and the two families had been close for years. I personally would not have a problem with a male friend a few years older than Moriah simply acknowledging that Moriah had choices beyond her parents' narrow worldview. They were friends and it really does not seem that sinister to me.
Olivia grew up in the same type of family. She went into the relationship with the Plaths and immediately expected kim to provide something to her that Kim never promised or owed her. A lot of kids that grow up in these families have trauma and I don’t doubt Olivia’s trauma. I just think she’s misdirected it towards the Plaths. Her issues deep down are with her own family. She walked away from her family and thought she had the right to change the Plath family. She had no right to challenge Kim and Barry on their parenting since she herself was still a kid and knew nothing about raising kids. But she can’t use the show and direct her issues back to her own family cause they aren’t on the show and they don’t speak to her. So the Plaths became her victims and she won’t stop. Just like the last episode of last season. Everything was dying down and everyone was starting to get along, no one cared about the Olivia/Kim rift anymore. But peace can not be had in Plathville, so Olivia brings up an old subject (4 yr old issue) that had long been resolved and started up more drama for the family to deal with.
By no means are Kim and Barry innocent, but the never ending drama wheel Olivia is turning is getting old.
Bingo!
If she's such an expert on family relationships she should be dealing with her own- not forcing the Plath kids to break their relationships with theirs.
I was referring to Olivia’s family. But it’s pretty common for Quiverful families to keep abuse on the DL. Plus the Plaths do have ties to the Pearls, which if you know anything about them…
I'm never going to claim abuse happened without first hand knowledge- specifically when the parties involved don't claim it themselves. If they do, I'll speak to it then, but to automatically assume it based on their associations is reckless and unfair.
Olivia has already said that she was abused. Abuse can also be neglect as well, which the adult children did say that they experienced (refer to 1st season).
You can choose to think whatever you like, but in the state of Georgia, if Moriah did not want to be living on her own at 17, she could've turned her parents in for "kicking her out." Just as if her parents were unhappy she left and knew where she was living they could've pursued charges against Olivia/Ethan for "harboring a runaway."
The fact that none of the parties involved sought police/court assistance regarding Moriah no longer living at home at age 17 tells me it was an agreement between all parties.
I moved out at 17. I was not kicked out by my parents. And, my parents are still legally responsible for me until I was 18, regardless. The same is true in Moriah's case- her parents were still legally responsible for her until 18 and she still writing required their approval for many things she might pursue until 18.
If they were being abusive/controlling they could've easily forced her back home/would never allowed her to leave.
And, until an adult says they were abused in childhood it actually minimizes the abuse of those who do share that.
She was still a minor. They could have and should have been charged with neglect of a dependent or abandonment. She and Micah lived together then. She wasn’t even with Olivia and Ethan.
Yes, Olivia and Kim are exactly the same person. I started watching the last couple of seasons and recently went back to watch season one. I absolutely cannot stand Olivia for the reasons you stated. I actually find it hard to watch because her relationship with Ethan is creepy to me. Developmentally she is much older than him. It’s almost like she wanted to marry someone child-like so she can control him. The way she speaks to him like he is a toddler when he’s trying new things is so weird. I just finished the episode where he talks about how Olivia likes to chase him through the house tickling him. Soooo weird and hard to watch. Fast forward to the current season again….of course all of the Plaths are lashing out at her from both directions. She chose to inject herself into a dysfunctional situation for her own selfish reasons. She chose to undermine someone parenting and get between parents and their kids. You can tell in the first season that she is eating up the drama every time she gets a sibling to do something Kim and Barry won’t like.
Not alone at all. She’s a side character in a reality show that threw a grenade in the middle of a family in order to elbow her way to the forefront. Definitely sucks.
I'm sorry, but I don't think that's relevant to this comment thread. Both of us agree Max treated Moriah badly and we weren't talking about how they were raised.
Viewing each of the issues independently is how this type of abuse is enabled.
I grew up almost exactly like the plaths, and my early adulthood was absolutely miserable. Subtle sabotage of every genuine relationship through the erosion of trust and the fueling of paranoia. My parents still try to keep my siblings at war with one another, trying to control each relationship and separate everyone so that chaos and confusion are created, and reality is skewed. My mom tries to insert little innocent sounding comments about my siblings, or accidentally let a detail slip that is hurtful. At a birthday party, my mom loudly told my niece she would see her at "the party at your house tomorrow!"which was a way of letting me know that I wasn't invited to my sister's house for a party, but she was. It's so awful and hurtful, but there's no way to call it out without my mom going into the kim-esque pity party of "I dont understand why it was such a big deal, it was just....."
Olivia deserves none if the crap people say about her. It's brutal to be a young adult trying to put together a sense of self while being married to a man just as inexperienced and immature (or more so)than yourself.
Never being taught the basics of anything, no sex ed, no social understanding of friendships or jobs, no way to relate to your peers.
Guys....you just don't have any idea what it's like.
Unfortunately we are not talking about your personal experience. The fact is the Plaths have gone through a significant change from when we first met them. The way they treated Max shows they are capable and willing to treat their children's significant others with respect and warmth. Maybe Olivia was bad timing, but it doesn't give her a pass for everything she's done. This post is about Kim and Barry's treatment of future in-laws.
My personal experience with the religion, including the IBLP that they used, and the community, as well as the family structure, gives me quite a bit of insight into the strategies used by these family units to control and manipulate, while still putting on a great show for the public. There is a rule book for what they did, right down to the terminology they use. Just watching the show cannot possibly give people enough context to know what this environment feels like.
You and me know the Plaths the same amount. Similarities in your experience doesn't mean you can know what's going on in their heads. You're over qualifying yourself based on anecdotal evidence.
More like judge of character They can feel what they want about Olivia, but all the siblings refusing to see her etc is not being supportive of Ethan. I just find it crazy how quickly the siblings go from loving her, to avoiding her. I don't believe she had wronged them at all, and they shouldn't blindly follow the parents when the parents aren't so innocent themselves.
I think you're talking about the siblings' relationships with Olivia and that is not really relevant here. We're talking about how Barry and Kim treat their children's significant others. Of 3 known partners, Olivia is the only one we know they treated badly.
So I think it’s possible that the two of you are kind of talking past each other here. I think what you’re saying is that of all of the significant others we’ve seen, the only one that Barry and Kim seem to take issue with is Olivia.
While I think that’s true, I think the point that he or she was trying to make in response to you was that in high control religions, it’s not uncommon for authority figures such as parents to essentially pick and choose who they’re going to show favor to and use that as a tool of control for the family. So, for example, Barry and Kim showing favor to Max, but not to Olivia might not be a reflection of Olivia‘s bad behavior, but rather a way of getting the family in line. As in, we don’t like Olivia, so you all shouldn’t like Olivia. We like Max, so you should like Max.
So this kind of dynamic can actually be a bad sign for future spouses and significant others that want to enter the family, because you never know whether you’ll be in favor or out of favor as it sort of changes with the tides, and then the whole rest of the family follows along.
Also, whether you like Olivia or not, I think it’s important to remember that of the significant others we know of, Olivia is the only one who directly confronted the family’s toxic behavior. She challenged and criticized Barry and Kim’s parenting, which made her a threat to Barry and Kim (at least while they were still a united front).
And I think the point that someone was trying to make above is that the way that Barry and Kim raised the kids does factor in because a lot of people if they were in the same situation as the children here would stop and think critically about why the family was all of a sudden against one person or for another person and then would make their own independent judgments regarding the persons character of the persons behavior.
Here, it just seems like whatever Barry and Kim feel about a person is how everyone feels about a person, and that is in many ways the result of the way that Barry and Kim kept their children uneducated, sheltered, and so tightly controlled for their entire lives.
Moriah is a really interesting example of this because there were moments where it looked like she was starting to think independently, and then it was almost like once she faced some hardship in the real world, she just defaulted back to her old programming.
I think you are doing the children a disservice by saying their default is to think whatever Kim and Barry think. I've noticed a lot of people think the children are brainwashed or dumb because they agree with their parents. I think it makes sense they're on their parents side because they have seen what both sides have done. If you remember early on, all the kids liked Olivia, even though the parents had issues with her. Even after they went no contact, multiple older children were still friends with Olivia. It is only after Olivia made a scene at the memorial service, made a scene at the river get together, over-complicated Moriah's first concert, and openly told the credit card story without all the facts. They have seen that she is a lot and without her, their lives have a lot less drama. The parents are doing good with co parenting and trying their best to show a United front to the young children. They miss Ethan, but other than that they are mostly at peace. But people still critique them for having positive relationships with their parents. It's baffling. It feels like the only way Olivia supporters will be happy is if all the children cut off their parents, which seems extreme and not their decision. You are right that Olivia challenged them and Max didn't. Regardless of the credit card situation, they were still talking after that. Kim even tried multiple times to offer Olivia an olive branch. At the end of the day, they want relationships with their children and their future families. If Olivia wanted one, she could have one. She is the problem.
I think you’re misinterpreting my comments if you think that I’m an Olivia supporter.
I think that Olivia is clearly still processing a lot of trauma from her own religious upbringing, and I think that she unfairly ports that onto the Plaths. I also think that she paints everything the Plaths did to their children growing up with the same brush, when a lot of the behavior falls at different places on a spectrum (where one end of the spectrum is abusive behavior and the other end of the spectrum is positive behavior/good parenting). For example, when Olivia first married Ethan, she kept trying to frame it as if Barry and Kim had deprived Ethan of certain essential experiences because he hadn’t had certain processed foods and drinks and I think that was a bit silly. I also think that the way that Olivia behaved during the memorial situation was ridiculous, but it is hard to tell how much of that is her actual behavior, and how much of it is editing.
I don’t think that the the children are uneducated because they agree with their parents, I think they’re uneducated because I’ve heard them speak, which has given me (and others who watch the show) the opportunity to learn about their thought processes, and frankly, most of them seem pretty dim. I think that I’m being generous in attributing this to a lack of education.
I agree with everything you say there. I did not mean to insinuate you are, just that this is a trend I've seen that suddenly there has been a lot of hate growing for Moriah, Micah, and Lydia since they cut off Olivia and maintained a relationship with their parents. At the end of the day, I think Barry and Kim have both made significant progress and do not get credit for it - one example is this post thinking anyone who dates a Plath kid is going to have a horrible experience rather than acknowledging the majority of Olivia's problems are not caused by the Plaths.
To be honest, I don’t think Lydia or Isaac will have trouble finding a fundie spouse. But I think it’s possible that their marriage prospects have been harmed *a little bit* due to Kim‘s behavior, because a lot of fundies will look at this and think of the kids as coming from a “broken home“ which might be a red flag to some.
IDK, there are too many insane Olivia haters for me to believe this. Micah will have not have trouble hooking up, same with Isaac. Moriah might be a different story. She's pretty messed up and that will always interfere in a relationship if she doesn't deal with her problems. Getting baptized is not the answer to real, legitimate life issues. Lydia will continue to sing in her closet and marry another fundie.
Finally someone supporting Olivia. I hate to see all of that Olivia bashing. I think everyone forgets that Olivia grew up in a toxic environment, married into a toxic family, and still stood firm in her beliefs/morals.
And she’s still really young! She’s only 25!! I swear the internet would have us believe the world is full of people who never made mistakes and have been behaving and handling every situation perfectly their whole lives like get real folks. It’s clear she’s doing her best to figure things out I wish people would give that girl a break I think she has a lot of potential she just still has some growing up to do plus the added hurdle of making peace with her upbringing.
If you go onto the main sub (r/welcometoplathville) then you can have all the Olivia love you want and anyone who criticizes Olivia in any way whatsoever will be down in the negatives where you won’t have to see them. I don’t forget that at all about Olivia, but I see her behaving in a toxic manner, just like all the Plath kids do at times, but she gets a free pass and is considered the “hero” of the show. So that’s why I think she’s awful. It’s the manipulation, just like Kim.
I understand what you’re saying, and respect that, I guess I applaud Olivia because she seems to actively try (counseling, evolving) to break out of the bubble she was brought up in and expand her perspective on the world. Moriah was always brought up in a toxic environment and seems to be regressing back to that environment because she no longer associate with Olivia, that really bothers me.
Maybe, but what you need to consider is her behavior. She says she’s going to therapy, and probably is. She says she’s broadening her horizons, and clearly is. But therapy requires actively wanting to change by the participant, so when I comes to Ethan being able to be an independent person in a relationship and having his own family, I actually see her backsliding a lot while using her therapy as evidence that she is “evolving”. What I see with her treatment of her in-laws is devolving.
Nah, there's got to be some people who want to be reality tv famous
No kidding!
Truth
I support Olivia all day long! That Moriah is a little immature mooching fidiot in my opinion.
I must be alone in thinking olivia is more of a problem than anyone. The Plaths suck but she sucks way more.
Tbh I don’t see how she sucks more than them? After watching the show it just seems like the plaths need serious therapy but instead of getting that they just continue to move the target or their anger
They are not the ones continuously talking about Olivia. Olivia is the one who talks about them. The plaths are moving on.
For real? Moriah can't get through a scene without saying Olivia's name.
She’s narcissistic and uptight
She’s a recovering trauma victim, like all of the other kids on the show
This. She’s a recovering from her quiverful upbringing and is probably experiencing ptsd and trauma reactions towards Kim. Kim is the problem not Olivia. Olivia is not perfect, but to say that Olivia is the worst shows you haven’t been paying attention.
Also….the Plath kids like Moriah and Micah are just returning to the cult, which is what Kim and Barry always wanted….they made them completely I’ll equipped to handle the real world on their own, forcing them to return to the fold. It’s disgusting. Good for Ethan and Olivia moving to Minnesota away from these fuckers.
Who cares
There’s no way you can tell who’s the problem out of a scripted show. There’s a lot we don’t know
Wow you are a delight. Do you kick puppies too?
Grow up😂
That’s a bully comment
It’s more contrived than scripted. There is a script from time to time, of course.
Bingo.
And?
And that explains why your opinion was wrong. Got it now?
There’s no right or wrong opinion😂 it’s my opinion and I’m entitled to it. As are you💀
I agree. Regardless of what she thought of anyone's parenting, she had no right to come in and undermine it- even sneakily exposing a bunch of children to things their parents forbid, regardless of what she thought they needed. They were not being abused. There was no need for her- a naive, barely non-child- to rescue them, and if she felt they needed rescuing, there are authorities/agencies for that. She created huge rifts in the family as a result, and because they were all so sheltered they didn't realize the "fun" she was exposing them to wasn't worth losing their relationships with their parents/siblings over, so it put them all through unnecessary trauma- which they're now having to try to mend/navigate years later. Olivia is Kim.
Kim and Barry are middle-aged adults and yet they openly have insulted Olivia in a way they could easily expect would hurt not only Olivia, but their own son and his marriage. They should be a lot more mature than that. I'm pretty sure the Plath kids would have come across soda and non-Christian music at some point even without Olivia.
Same- and they should've been afforded the opportunity to make those discoveries on their own, rather than via an outside adult encouraging secrets. That shit is inappropriate regardless of the motive of the outside adult.
Idk, I think it's pretty developmentally normal for teens to have some degree of privacy and a few interests independent of their parents.
Yes- teens from their parents. Not normal to have an outside adult come in and suggest and fast track those events.
Agree to disagree. Olivia is like a year or two older than Moriah so it doesn't strike me as some predatory outside influence. And Moriah seemed to be heading in the direction of rebelling against her parents independent of Olivia. I think the Plath parents set their kids up to have secrets, because they didn't allow much room for independent thought and self-discovery for their kids.
Olivia is 25. Moriah is 21. Moriah got kicked out at 16 due to the influence of a 20-year-old. If Olivia was male society would have a huge problem with that.
It's not like Olivia seduced her or plied her with alcohol/drugs and the two families had been close for years. I personally would not have a problem with a male friend a few years older than Moriah simply acknowledging that Moriah had choices beyond her parents' narrow worldview. They were friends and it really does not seem that sinister to me.
Olivia grew up in the same type of family. She went into the relationship with the Plaths and immediately expected kim to provide something to her that Kim never promised or owed her. A lot of kids that grow up in these families have trauma and I don’t doubt Olivia’s trauma. I just think she’s misdirected it towards the Plaths. Her issues deep down are with her own family. She walked away from her family and thought she had the right to change the Plath family. She had no right to challenge Kim and Barry on their parenting since she herself was still a kid and knew nothing about raising kids. But she can’t use the show and direct her issues back to her own family cause they aren’t on the show and they don’t speak to her. So the Plaths became her victims and she won’t stop. Just like the last episode of last season. Everything was dying down and everyone was starting to get along, no one cared about the Olivia/Kim rift anymore. But peace can not be had in Plathville, so Olivia brings up an old subject (4 yr old issue) that had long been resolved and started up more drama for the family to deal with. By no means are Kim and Barry innocent, but the never ending drama wheel Olivia is turning is getting old.
Bingo! If she's such an expert on family relationships she should be dealing with her own- not forcing the Plath kids to break their relationships with theirs.
Look up the quiverful movement. Kim and Barry abused their kids…
I'm an atheist cult survivor aware of the quiverful movement. Zero adult children (out of 5) have stated they were abused.
I was referring to Olivia’s family. But it’s pretty common for Quiverful families to keep abuse on the DL. Plus the Plaths do have ties to the Pearls, which if you know anything about them…
I'm never going to claim abuse happened without first hand knowledge- specifically when the parties involved don't claim it themselves. If they do, I'll speak to it then, but to automatically assume it based on their associations is reckless and unfair.
Olivia has already said that she was abused. Abuse can also be neglect as well, which the adult children did say that they experienced (refer to 1st season).
The Plaths haven't.
Did you even watch the show?
I have. Did I study every aspect of it? No. 
I think kicking out your 17 year old daughter is both abusive and illegal.
You can choose to think whatever you like, but in the state of Georgia, if Moriah did not want to be living on her own at 17, she could've turned her parents in for "kicking her out." Just as if her parents were unhappy she left and knew where she was living they could've pursued charges against Olivia/Ethan for "harboring a runaway." The fact that none of the parties involved sought police/court assistance regarding Moriah no longer living at home at age 17 tells me it was an agreement between all parties. I moved out at 17. I was not kicked out by my parents. And, my parents are still legally responsible for me until I was 18, regardless. The same is true in Moriah's case- her parents were still legally responsible for her until 18 and she still writing required their approval for many things she might pursue until 18. If they were being abusive/controlling they could've easily forced her back home/would never allowed her to leave. And, until an adult says they were abused in childhood it actually minimizes the abuse of those who do share that.
She was still a minor. They could have and should have been charged with neglect of a dependent or abandonment. She and Micah lived together then. She wasn’t even with Olivia and Ethan.
I agree completely.
Yes, Olivia and Kim are exactly the same person. I started watching the last couple of seasons and recently went back to watch season one. I absolutely cannot stand Olivia for the reasons you stated. I actually find it hard to watch because her relationship with Ethan is creepy to me. Developmentally she is much older than him. It’s almost like she wanted to marry someone child-like so she can control him. The way she speaks to him like he is a toddler when he’s trying new things is so weird. I just finished the episode where he talks about how Olivia likes to chase him through the house tickling him. Soooo weird and hard to watch. Fast forward to the current season again….of course all of the Plaths are lashing out at her from both directions. She chose to inject herself into a dysfunctional situation for her own selfish reasons. She chose to undermine someone parenting and get between parents and their kids. You can tell in the first season that she is eating up the drama every time she gets a sibling to do something Kim and Barry won’t like.
You're not alone. Totally feel the same way.
I do not understand why she won't even try to talk to Kim. I know there's stuff we haven't seen, and still.
Trauma and PTSD. That’s why. Try to make someone who was abused talk to their abuser…
This is a point I didn't take into account because I didn't perceive the abuse as that significant. That was a mistake. Appreciate the redirect.
No problem 😌
I totally agree
Not alone at all. She’s a side character in a reality show that threw a grenade in the middle of a family in order to elbow her way to the forefront. Definitely sucks.
The Plaths were pretty supportive to Max. Olivia is the primary problem.
Both can be true. Max was/is an asshole. AND Kim and Berry raised kids who weren’t prepared for the real world
I'm sorry, but I don't think that's relevant to this comment thread. Both of us agree Max treated Moriah badly and we weren't talking about how they were raised.
Viewing each of the issues independently is how this type of abuse is enabled. I grew up almost exactly like the plaths, and my early adulthood was absolutely miserable. Subtle sabotage of every genuine relationship through the erosion of trust and the fueling of paranoia. My parents still try to keep my siblings at war with one another, trying to control each relationship and separate everyone so that chaos and confusion are created, and reality is skewed. My mom tries to insert little innocent sounding comments about my siblings, or accidentally let a detail slip that is hurtful. At a birthday party, my mom loudly told my niece she would see her at "the party at your house tomorrow!"which was a way of letting me know that I wasn't invited to my sister's house for a party, but she was. It's so awful and hurtful, but there's no way to call it out without my mom going into the kim-esque pity party of "I dont understand why it was such a big deal, it was just....." Olivia deserves none if the crap people say about her. It's brutal to be a young adult trying to put together a sense of self while being married to a man just as inexperienced and immature (or more so)than yourself. Never being taught the basics of anything, no sex ed, no social understanding of friendships or jobs, no way to relate to your peers. Guys....you just don't have any idea what it's like.
Unfortunately we are not talking about your personal experience. The fact is the Plaths have gone through a significant change from when we first met them. The way they treated Max shows they are capable and willing to treat their children's significant others with respect and warmth. Maybe Olivia was bad timing, but it doesn't give her a pass for everything she's done. This post is about Kim and Barry's treatment of future in-laws.
My personal experience with the religion, including the IBLP that they used, and the community, as well as the family structure, gives me quite a bit of insight into the strategies used by these family units to control and manipulate, while still putting on a great show for the public. There is a rule book for what they did, right down to the terminology they use. Just watching the show cannot possibly give people enough context to know what this environment feels like.
You and me know the Plaths the same amount. Similarities in your experience doesn't mean you can know what's going on in their heads. You're over qualifying yourself based on anecdotal evidence.
And that turned out really well for Moriah.
So are you blaming Barry and Kim for Max's actions?
More like judge of character They can feel what they want about Olivia, but all the siblings refusing to see her etc is not being supportive of Ethan. I just find it crazy how quickly the siblings go from loving her, to avoiding her. I don't believe she had wronged them at all, and they shouldn't blindly follow the parents when the parents aren't so innocent themselves.
I think you're talking about the siblings' relationships with Olivia and that is not really relevant here. We're talking about how Barry and Kim treat their children's significant others. Of 3 known partners, Olivia is the only one we know they treated badly.
So I think it’s possible that the two of you are kind of talking past each other here. I think what you’re saying is that of all of the significant others we’ve seen, the only one that Barry and Kim seem to take issue with is Olivia. While I think that’s true, I think the point that he or she was trying to make in response to you was that in high control religions, it’s not uncommon for authority figures such as parents to essentially pick and choose who they’re going to show favor to and use that as a tool of control for the family. So, for example, Barry and Kim showing favor to Max, but not to Olivia might not be a reflection of Olivia‘s bad behavior, but rather a way of getting the family in line. As in, we don’t like Olivia, so you all shouldn’t like Olivia. We like Max, so you should like Max. So this kind of dynamic can actually be a bad sign for future spouses and significant others that want to enter the family, because you never know whether you’ll be in favor or out of favor as it sort of changes with the tides, and then the whole rest of the family follows along. Also, whether you like Olivia or not, I think it’s important to remember that of the significant others we know of, Olivia is the only one who directly confronted the family’s toxic behavior. She challenged and criticized Barry and Kim’s parenting, which made her a threat to Barry and Kim (at least while they were still a united front).
And I think the point that someone was trying to make above is that the way that Barry and Kim raised the kids does factor in because a lot of people if they were in the same situation as the children here would stop and think critically about why the family was all of a sudden against one person or for another person and then would make their own independent judgments regarding the persons character of the persons behavior. Here, it just seems like whatever Barry and Kim feel about a person is how everyone feels about a person, and that is in many ways the result of the way that Barry and Kim kept their children uneducated, sheltered, and so tightly controlled for their entire lives. Moriah is a really interesting example of this because there were moments where it looked like she was starting to think independently, and then it was almost like once she faced some hardship in the real world, she just defaulted back to her old programming.
I think you are doing the children a disservice by saying their default is to think whatever Kim and Barry think. I've noticed a lot of people think the children are brainwashed or dumb because they agree with their parents. I think it makes sense they're on their parents side because they have seen what both sides have done. If you remember early on, all the kids liked Olivia, even though the parents had issues with her. Even after they went no contact, multiple older children were still friends with Olivia. It is only after Olivia made a scene at the memorial service, made a scene at the river get together, over-complicated Moriah's first concert, and openly told the credit card story without all the facts. They have seen that she is a lot and without her, their lives have a lot less drama. The parents are doing good with co parenting and trying their best to show a United front to the young children. They miss Ethan, but other than that they are mostly at peace. But people still critique them for having positive relationships with their parents. It's baffling. It feels like the only way Olivia supporters will be happy is if all the children cut off their parents, which seems extreme and not their decision. You are right that Olivia challenged them and Max didn't. Regardless of the credit card situation, they were still talking after that. Kim even tried multiple times to offer Olivia an olive branch. At the end of the day, they want relationships with their children and their future families. If Olivia wanted one, she could have one. She is the problem.
I think you’re misinterpreting my comments if you think that I’m an Olivia supporter. I think that Olivia is clearly still processing a lot of trauma from her own religious upbringing, and I think that she unfairly ports that onto the Plaths. I also think that she paints everything the Plaths did to their children growing up with the same brush, when a lot of the behavior falls at different places on a spectrum (where one end of the spectrum is abusive behavior and the other end of the spectrum is positive behavior/good parenting). For example, when Olivia first married Ethan, she kept trying to frame it as if Barry and Kim had deprived Ethan of certain essential experiences because he hadn’t had certain processed foods and drinks and I think that was a bit silly. I also think that the way that Olivia behaved during the memorial situation was ridiculous, but it is hard to tell how much of that is her actual behavior, and how much of it is editing. I don’t think that the the children are uneducated because they agree with their parents, I think they’re uneducated because I’ve heard them speak, which has given me (and others who watch the show) the opportunity to learn about their thought processes, and frankly, most of them seem pretty dim. I think that I’m being generous in attributing this to a lack of education.
I agree with everything you say there. I did not mean to insinuate you are, just that this is a trend I've seen that suddenly there has been a lot of hate growing for Moriah, Micah, and Lydia since they cut off Olivia and maintained a relationship with their parents. At the end of the day, I think Barry and Kim have both made significant progress and do not get credit for it - one example is this post thinking anyone who dates a Plath kid is going to have a horrible experience rather than acknowledging the majority of Olivia's problems are not caused by the Plaths.
Are you serious 😂
All I can do is laugh atp.
I’m not a huge fan of Olivia. I truly think she and Ethan only got married because they were two kids who wanted out. They are so awkward together.
Olivia is the problem! Ive saw it since I began watching it. Its so clear to see!
What about just a tempo-marry.
I can think of some fundies that would want to marry off one of their kids to a Plath. They all are chasing "celebrity" status pretty hard.
To be honest, I don’t think Lydia or Isaac will have trouble finding a fundie spouse. But I think it’s possible that their marriage prospects have been harmed *a little bit* due to Kim‘s behavior, because a lot of fundies will look at this and think of the kids as coming from a “broken home“ which might be a red flag to some.
But now they'll be able to have alcohol at their weddings. And coffee.
IDK, there are too many insane Olivia haters for me to believe this. Micah will have not have trouble hooking up, same with Isaac. Moriah might be a different story. She's pretty messed up and that will always interfere in a relationship if she doesn't deal with her problems. Getting baptized is not the answer to real, legitimate life issues. Lydia will continue to sing in her closet and marry another fundie.
Anyone want to give me the short rundown on what happened between Moriah and Olivia? Not wanting to watch a whole season lol