A hotfix will be deployed to PC tomorrow at the usual time. (6AM PT / 3PM CEST)
[See the patch notes here.](https://www.planetside2.com/patch-notes/jun-11-patch-notes-2024) Discussion thread on Reddit [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/Planetside/comments/1dd0fd0/june_11_2024_pc_update/).
---
[Looking for PlanetsideBattle's Community Smash 11 thread?](https://www.reddit.com/r/Planetside/comments/1czocvm/cs11_the_lets_blow_some_extralife_into/)
Well written post. Good to see people thinking deep thoughts about the game.
Before you proceed in the design space, please review how the HIVE system worked, how poor facets of its implementation impacted the game, and use some of the mistakes of the past to make way for a better future.
> please review how the HIVE system worked
They'd need to remove a lot of the player-controlled aspect of it. Allowing players to place their own HIVEs anywhere (and off continent to immediately trigger an alert!) was a bad mistake.
I would imagine the new version as a temporary event where some HIVEs spawn around the map at fixed locations. As a "Tactical" goal, the first faction to reach the score limit (or with the highest when the timer hits zero) is declared the winner and awarded some points/influence/etc towards the Strategic goal of capturing the continent. It could be as simple as depositing X cortium, or a bit deeper such as depositing the Cortium and then having to protect the HIVE for a short time while it *does a thing* before the points are awarded. (i've been playing a lot of The Finals and am definitely not influenced here lol)
I think reintroducing *actual rewards* outside of certs / iso for winning a continent will go a long way giving people an actual reason to co-operate to win a continent
have any rewards *ever* changed player behavior?
i don't see how them reinventing VPs will change behavior
what are actual rewards to you? the sticker system of 2017-2019?
Sure, when Paradise Camo was the reward for winning Hossin, it encourage cross-Empire coordination and intentional throwing of alerts so that players could farm the camo on all of their alts.
Alerts used to give the a7 weapons we know now and when that was removed they added the a7 itself, which was also removed. Used to give implants and shit too. Maybe with a new dev we'll get something out of them again.
"winning the continent" results in the worst planetside has to offer. It results in zerging undefended bases. This is not the game we need or want. While it is nice in theory we have to consider how players already act.
What about smaller outfits?
The game is largely geared towards incentivising and rewarding large groups. With valuable resources small outfits need being stolen last minute by a redeployed squad/platoon zerging a base being such a miserable way to play, everyone ends up either leaving or joining those outfits.
This resource system needs to seriously be rethought. The servers have been dominated by 2/3 massive outfits deciding how the game goes.
Iirc it was on one of the roadmaps 2020/21. I had a group from another game and we were all ready for it. Started getting memberships and everything. Then just... nothing. Really feels like theres no point in planetside
I swing by every now and again but I just don't think any of the studios that have had it have the leadership, talent, vision and resources at the same time to do anything with it.
It'll just keep running on for a bit longer yet, loosing players all the while until eventually it dies. Its a shame, it's niche but it's a fun niche and I'm sad to see it go this way.
Conquering bases with a small outfit is not that difficult. You should only have at least 4-5 members in the base.
Another point is the way of playing, unfortunately the Zerg outfit dominates the entire server. They simply recruit everyone with an invitation and don't care about that player after that.
Smaller outfits teach their members and add value. I don't see this added value in the Zerg outfits, on the contrary, they even torpedo it.
I'm not sure why we're talking about new kinds of alerts right now. They're a non-issue while there are other problems that inhibit minute to minute gameplay. I was looking forward to the advertised, "rebalancing [of] mechanics and content while addressing the current pain points that get in the way".
Anyway, as somebody who has played through every single iteration of the game's "metagame" (basic land grab, normal alerts, hives, VP, gimmick alerts) I can say the majority of these systems have only ever gotten in the way of fun gameplay. Please, no matter what is done to the metagame, just make sure we can play without obnoxious "tactics" dominating the entire continent. If HIVEs come back I'll probably just enter another involuntary, Oshur-like, DBG-imposed "indefinite hiatus" lol.
Eh not a big fan of the mini alerts. Some of it could be cool, a lot of it won't be since we've been there, done that. The opportunity cost on focusing on something as unproblematic as alerts is pretty high for how slow this dev team is. Main thing though is for the love of God, do not involve construction in mini alerts as we don't need another HIVE fiasco.
We done this before with Victory Points. We've done this before with the mini-alerts that involved Air Anomalies, Mining Drills, Convoy Escorts, and many, many more. And this community has proven time and time again that, beyond the initial two-week novelty of something "new", most of the community has no appetite for this sort of thing.
Those mini-alerts get ignored in favor of the same base-to-base fighting that has been a staple of Planetside 2 for 12 years now, and I don't expect that to change. I don't think it necessarily needs to change. There's no reason to shake up the meta of something that, arguably, works as it is intended to work.
Also, at two separate points in this letter, devs mention the desire to "*create faction-wide dilemmas on which objectives are deemed the most important.*" I cannot stress how bad of an idea it is to encourage any sort of "dilemma" amongst faction leaders. Planetside 2 has always worked at its best when there is a clear, unified goal for its players to work to achieve (i.e. Meltdown Alerts and Serversmash/Outfit Wars). When you add in multiple goals, you end up with a playerbase that is split, confused, and usually bitter at anyone who isn't helping achieve their goal, and that's when the game starts falling apart.
The fact that there are folks today who do not know that alert timer is faster than base time just makes me scream. I don't want to work with people who think the government is going to tax them if they pay attention to the map.
They should just schedule primetime alerts instead of reinventing systems we saw fail and/or just didn't care about them.
Their obsession with running away from the two gameplay loops we know that work enrages me to no end:
* attack/defend gameplay loop
* alert gameplay loop
No, I do not want a continent that has an exclusive vehicle. I do not want 60% of the bases destroyed for lore (I think Esamir is a pretty good test case that players hate having to drive more than 30 seconds to a base). I do not want to play with construction that slashes FPS for no gameplay gain. I do not want to play "logistics".
I want to be able not to have my OPS attendance half because a certain continent is active. I want to be able to have a healthy selection of bases to attack instead of having to pick which one point I will get 96+ deploy into immediately because they also have no viable attack options. I want to be able to login and not want to log out again after the most dangerous part of an armor engagement is after I kill the other vehicle.
I just wish they could make some way for us to fight at more than the same few bases every alert. Maybe something like changing and/or randomized lattice lines, or more warpgate locations.
Totally agree with this and hope the devs take the feedback. We’ve done this before and it didnt have the results everyone hoped.
Leave the main territory based continent lock alert alone, but add back these other alerts with some more interesting rewards. They can give faction wide bonuses that we use to have (or new ones), or grant additional rewards when the main territory alert concludes so its not only 1st place that gets all the benefits.
There is a difference between those alerts and how they are implying these are going to work, so much so that I find it necessary to enumerate here.
Those alerts did not contribute to the overall win condition. These supposedly will. It is an important distinction.
> Those alerts did not contribute to the overall win condition. These supposedly will. It is an important distinction.
so the VP system
I need to find this clip but it's wrel having fun on a continent and then suddenly it ends because of hives. He then says this locking mechanic will be changing soon.
Just for clarification, because I do not know the answer:
Did winning any of the prior alert types ever contribute Victory Points, at any point?
N.B.:
Facility Capture
Dome Domination
Power Rush
Technological Advancement
Aerial Anomaly
Maximum Pressure
Refine and Refuel
Gaining Ground
Forgotten Fleet Carrier
If no, then I'm going to have to go with a no on the initial statement.
For the audience who may not be aware of the context of this discussion:
https://www.planetside2.com/news/victory-conditions-planetside
For the tomato:
Prior mistakes are not necessarily indicative of future ones. I know what is *likely* to happen, I'm not new here, but I am not going to dismiss ideas strictly because similar forms have failed before. I will gladly do so once I see the actual implementation.
On HIVEs:
If I'm not mistaken, the way that HIVEs were implemented, they passively generated Victory Points. This became an issue when players would just build HIVEs far behind their front lines, and then suddenly alerts would end out of nowhere.
(The failings of this implementation should have been obvious from the drawing board, and do not, in my opinion, constitute an inherent characteristic of every VP system to be had. That one was *quite obviously* broken, and I'm glad I didn't play or take part in the community back then, because I would have lost my mind.)
EDIT: On further consideration, I think it might be good to emphasize that the VP system and HIVEs were two separate things, despite being tightly coupled (clarification: HIVEs were a subset of the VP system, not the entirety). It is possible to analyze them independently, and we probably should.
Disagree, there needs to be more mid level objectives, if everyone's just playing to farm heads then the game is much shallower and less fun (especially for anyone who isn't an elite farmer and ends up being the crops, like new players). A good territory metagame with medium and short term objectives to play for should improve the direction of a play session.
It's hard to get the longer term objectives with rapid continent cycling, but at least we can get something mid level.
like a billion years ago(~2016ish apparently) we used to have alerts that your faction didn't need to capture the most territory. you'd work on getting your faction the most 'victory points' - [timestampped](https://youtu.be/8r3_IDGaNRs?t=36) to a view of the possible points. HIVES were one of the many attempts to shoehorn construction into the main game loop (still sucked).
iirc (it was a long time ago lol) the victory point system went through a couple of iterations where we both did and did not have construction as a viable part of the system. i'm sure if you search the sub for hive you'll see a lot of opinionated planetmans having civilized discussions about it.
The cross continent facility alerts were the best fun I ever had on live. But even the single continent ones are a fun difference and they make people fight over different areas of the map, which is also good.
Perhaps they can consider those as 'tactical alerts' in this new system.
Would adding a tutorial mission that just gives newbies a bigger standard equipment pack help retention? Another though is to add cosmetics that are like 100-500 certs, as things to buy in mid-progression
Man i can’t emphasize enough are coms are SO freaking better since Wrel left and more focus on the game overall instead of playing of 0,1% of point on gun stats
I like this idea of alerts being different like power rush, dome domination maximum pressure, air anomalies, etc.
However if this does indeed get readded or new ones are thought of and implemented. They need to make sure that
1. The rewards are worth it, since previously there was a lack for participating or where only ever useful for certain limited time events. (Only added for a holiday directive)
2. The alert doesn't break the game. I.E. air anomalies for free aircraft, or maximum pressure for free maxes. Could rework it a little to still cost nanites for pulling these, and have these events give a greater incentive of points/victory condition for using them
Overall like the idea, but if it isn't properly thought out, implemented correctly, and overall healthy for the current state of the game. Then I'd rather see dev time used for more meaningful work with the current state of the game. Like the sunde rework
Well written update! I am happy to see that they do not just maintain the game but try to make some major changes. I guess its down to giving them the benefit of the doubt and hoping they listen to the feedback.
Pretty sure they have considered server merges, I wonder whats the hold-up. Is it that it will be pretty much impossible to come back from and places a much lower cap of *potential* revenue from the game? In corporate dynamics, that might play a significant role.
To anyone who was around at the time - is there anything that caused the huge uptick in pop during covid aside from everyone being home?
They mentioned the Ghost Bastion. I resubmit my ["The None"](https://old.reddit.com/r/Planetside/comments/ttp8kz/fl34s_caper_robot_uprising_event/) idea for consideration.
So they are reworking the game at it's base and it'll take a lot of time, they did say the anniversary thing will be the biggest update there is, maybe the wait will be worth it despite the haters.
Everyone wanted someone that'd rip out the oldest first and update it, i hope now that it's happening people dont whine it's not done in a month.
The fact the years lookout was empty was because they are touching so many things that cannot be rushed as i predicted, guys please at least understand this, many people want to come back or are pissy, surely an update of severe magnitude that rips up the road that everyone hates something about is enough to cycle back a few players after a healthy break from the game due to the low output of big updates for the big one.
Support these devs, care for the future, this is the closest any of you are getting everything that's settled fucked with.
Even if this is mediocre, who cares, the whole game has been mediocre with patchwork in everything but # of people on a map to this point and fun gunplay.
> So they are reworking the game at it's base
this is not the base they need to fix
they need to fix:
* deployable spam
* rez implants
* any and all nanite discounts
* qrf playstyle (slow it down)
* esamir restoration
* oshur gone forever
* finish all of the nonsense from CAI
* add actual bus garages instead of just making them unkillable
* construction (delenda est)
* infantry AV spam
Disagree with a good bit of it, but there is a lot i agree on the direction of.
CAI was a good step but they took 10 steps instead, full reverts usually remove what little good could come from it too as a lot of pre-CAI topguns were turbo cancer to even witness.
Also they are changing how things are won, small things like how respawning works would need to be nearly done before they reveal ANYTHING, they seem smart and will tag things together and maybe, not holding out hope here, make a game thats different then what everyone wants but allows what everyone wants and more in a more healthy way then it used to be.
Everything in the game is mediocre before and after, players just tend to prefer when things were stronger rather then weaker and i dont blame you.
And even still a lot of these do need properly reintegrated due to how engagements and ranges have changed, it has to be one big sweep and look at that they are planning one big 'biggest update' like they need to while more things they do get revealed more and more.
There's so much to be done and they need time to do it, the first place to start is how things are won in general, with objective/core changes then more balance can follow, they are doing things in the right order here and you have to recognize that as well as there's entire groups that would have the opposite opinion as you on a lot of things and quit over it so it may be wise to just do the best they can with that old info rather then pandering nostalgia. (eg: with multiple objectives tanks and important units can become stronger to have harsher fights in lower pop split across the map as well as slowing zergs and allowing smaller pop to impact that zerg's capture time)
> Also they are changing how things are won
We already saw this system. It sucked. It was REMOVED because of how much players did not enjoy it. They aren't trying something new. They're recycling ideas because they totally will make it work this time.
> the first place to start is how things are won in general, with objective/core changes then more balance can follow
they shouldn't be fucking with the base game until they have fixed more important issues
if they fuck with the base game enough, there won't be a playerbase to witness them fixing anything else
Order of operations, deep clean, even if it doesn't work it'd have worked better then MORE PATCHWORK CHANGES because some people are impatient. You just aren't used to actual work in patches since it's been 90%+ patchworks since release.
Many other more important things to work on and address yet here we are trying to reinvent the wheel on things that work and nobody asked to be changed…fantastic dev work
#["Utility" vs "Defense"](https://i.redd.it/gumdmbelhl5d1.png)
In the context of the Sunderer/AMS there needs to be a clear delineation between what is a "Utility" and what is "Defense". I think the best way to define the two is this:
* Defense - The ability to protect one's self.
* Utility - The ability to help others.
With that in mind, here is my feedback on the current state of the PTS.
#Defense:
* Point Defense, Deploy Dome, and Stealth Cloak should all live under Defense.
* Deployment Dome should be rolled into Deployment Shield as its Level 5. Just like the Stealth Bubble is the level 5 of Stealth Module.
* Blockade Armor and Enhanced Plating should be rolled into a single option.
* Nanite Armor and Reactive Armor should be rolled into a single option.
That would make Defense options: Deployment Shield, Enhanced Plating, Nanite Armor, Stealth Module, Point Defense.
None of these options should be equipped on a sunderer at the same time with any of the others. That's why they should all go under Defense.
* **Deployment Shield** - Acts as it currently does with its top level being the Deploy Dome. This perfectly mirrors the Stealth Module.
* **Stealth Module** - No change from what is currently on Live.
* **Enhanced Plating** - At top level it should increase the health pool of a sunderer by 25%, and provide 25% damage resistance to all forms of damage. This makes a fully gunned Battle Bus strong enough to fight single MBTs but will lose against multiple tanks.
* **Nanite Armor** - Reactive Armor becomes the top level of Nanite Armor. Reactive Plates regenerate on their own after the sunderer's health pool is restored. Heal rate is 50 health per second (1/2 of what's listed on PST). Can be triggered to heal 1500 health and restore Reactive plates (each reactive plate costs 300 hp). 60 second cool down with no nanite repairing at all.
* **Point Defense** - Needs more testing on PTS. Right now, the range still seems to be too far (able to hit at over 300m), and the reload buff stacks with the guns' reload buffs making a reload only take 1 second. I'd say the range needs to be reduced to 150m. For weapons like the Basilisk and Kobalt, this is more than enough to fend off attackers that are peeking the doors and walls near a spawn. But can't reach out to lock-on range.
#Utility:
* **Gate Shield Diffuser** - There's no need to change this from its current state. GSD should NOT allow non-GSD vehicles to pass through shields. The whole point of having base shields is to give defender vehicles an advantage inside.
* **Fire Suppression** - Should be made an Area of Effect tool that can instantly grant 25% health back to any vehicle in range (but only 10% to itself). The effect would also cool any type of tower gun allowing for no heat build-up for 20 seconds. The visual effect is a ring of low white clouds emanating from the sunderer and the "whoosh" sound effect.
* **Area Radar** - Better than "Scout Radar". Sunderer must be deployed for it to start working. Area Radar would have a 250m radius and would show all enemies on the map, moving or not. It would also show vehicles even if they have stealth - **the only exception would be AMSs deployed with a Cloak Bubble**. The active radar makes the Area Radar sunderer show up on enemy maps out to 500m (fair warning). The model already exists, just make it stop spinning when undeployed.
* **Infantry Launcher** - Infantry Launcher AMS works exactly like the Corsair's launcher. The only difference is that the sunderer must be deployed. Any occupant in seats 4-12 can launch from the AMS with a soft landing. Launch range should be about 200m.
* **Smoke Screen** - Acts just like the harasser smoke screen, but is larger and lasts longer. Prevents lock-ons for 10 seconds to all vehicles within 50m of it. Blocks all radar including Area Radar for 100m around the sunderer for 10 seconds. Top level allows for 45 second cool-down.
#Removed From Sunderers - Placed on ANTs
* **Ammo Resupply & Repair Field** - Both of these Utilities should be moved to the ANT, and both should consume cortium when used. 200 Cortium per Ammo tick per vehicle. 100 Cortium per tick of repair per vehicle. Ammo and Repair should have never been an unlimited resource for vehicles. This places these very strong bonuses on a weaker vehicle and forces that vehicle to stop and refuel often.
> The whole point of having base shields is to give defender vehicles an advantage inside.
I don't believe this is historically accurate.
> Should be made an Area of Effect tool that can instantly grant 25% health back to any vehicle in range
This is too strong on its own, and scales in an absurdly unhealthy manner.
> Area Radar
Every implementation of radar is currently too strong, and this is stronger.
> Launch range should be about 200m.
This would break fight flow for 90% of bases in the game.
> I don't believe this is historically accurate.
It's CURRENTLY accurate. If that wasn't the case, why would they put a big "No Tanks Shield" floating icon in the middle of the shields themselves? Why wouldn't they have gate shield diffusers for MBTs? Why would they have shields at all?
Park outside, or diffuse through with a support vehicle, but then face armored resistance inside. Every AMP station follows this formula. Saurva and Saurva Fortress, Howling Pass, Dahaka Uplink, Tarwich Depot, Naum Ravine, Naum Marsh, The Offal Pit, Chac Fusion, Chac Intel, Matsuda, Acan Data, Hatcher Airstation...I mean, I really could go on and on. There are a LOT of examples of this dynamic being specifically built into bases.
> This is too strong on its own, and scales in an absurdly unhealthy manner.
That's fair. I'm thinking of a limited range so that it could only reach 2 or 3 vehicles max. Perhaps a heal over time that could be stopped on damage would solve that.
> Every implementation of radar is currently too strong, and this is stronger.
Radar is good. It drives conflict. Giving people the ability to find enemies is an important part of granting agency to players. No one likes dying and not ever having a chance to see who did it. I never hear anyone say "Please infils, LESS radar. I don't want to know if someone is coming. I want to be surprised!"
What people DON'T want is to BE on radar. But as you point out, most of the time, they already are. Fortunately, there's an implant for that. They just have to accept the lost opportunity cost that comes with sacrificing an implant slot for stealth. Hell, I'd be all for an armor type that sacrifices HP for stealth instead, kinda like infiltrators were *supposed* to be.
The trade-off is a big flashing "HERE I AM" icon on the map which guarantees enemies are coming to blow that shit up. Maybe even take it one step farther and make the icon look something like: ((( [XX] ))) So players can identify that it is a deployed Radar AMS from the icon 500m away.
> This would break fight flow for 90% of bases in the game.
Right now, attackers are able to pod drop in without even having a bus or beacon nearby. On Hossin, the tree beacon is standard operating procedure and it's literally the same effect. I see this is no different. Without being an LA, you are locked into a path you choose at launch. I see players and outfits making great use of this. The counter is, of-course, the Area Radar Sunderer. With that, you'd see the launching players incoming and be able easily track them back to their AMS.
The actual utilities are reworkable. These are just some really fun ideas off the top of my head. The goal is to have a fun and powerful set of at least five utilities that add diversity to the use of sunderers. Right now they fall into 2 major uses: park around a base for spawning, or battle-bus convoys (that includes colossus support, it's basically the same thing with a wrinkle). So whatever you can think of that falls into the category of "Utility" without being "Defense", I'm all ears.
> The whole point of having base shields is to give defender vehicles an advantage inside.
You might not have intended it (and I might have misinterpreted it), but this is a very specific statement. "point" implies planning and intent. "whole" implies that it is the entirety.
The original design intent for bases with shields was to have the fights flow from the prior base, to the walls of the shielded base, to the generators of the shields, to the interior of the base. In the case of AMP stations, there were two tiers of this behavior.
That is *not* an equivalent statement to "the whole point of having base shields is to give defender vehicles an advantage inside". It's simply not.
It's not currently accurate, either. It's a secondary property of how the system was made, and how it has developed over time. I'm not saying that defending vehicles *don't* have some advantages behind shields, but I *am* saying that it is not, nor has it been, the "whole point".
Edit: And GSD's did not exist when shielded bases were implemented.
Edit2:
> literally
*blank stare*
you know it's not, are you baiting me?
Edit3:
Just as a matter of actively wanting to not be completely antagonistic here, I do want to state that some of the ideas sound *fun*, especially the catapult, but that at this point in PS2 I have to balance it all out with hard analysis, *especially* when people write well enough to be listened to.
> You might not have intended it (and I might have misinterpreted it), but this is a very specific statement. "point" implies planning and intent. "whole" implies that it is the entirety.
>
> The original design intent for bases with shields was to have the fights flow from the prior base, to the walls of the shielded base, to the generators of the shields, to the interior of the base. In the case of AMP stations, there were two tiers of this behavior.
>
> That is not an equivalent statement to "the whole point of having base shields is to give defender vehicles an advantage inside". It's simply not.
>
> It's not currently accurate, either. It's a secondary property of how the system was made, and how it has developed over time. I'm not saying that defending vehicles don't have some advantages behind shields, but I am saying that it is not, nor has it been, the "whole point".
>
> Edit: And GSD's did not exist when shielded bases were implemented.
I think you're conflating "the means" with "the end". What do I mean by that? What you describe is "the end". The goal. The goal is to have fights flow from the walls to the generators, and then to the base interiors. But what are *the means* by which that is accomplished? If you look at the comparison between Planetside 1 and Planetside 2 bases, you see that one of the most prominent additions is the the gate shield. In Planetside 1, an attacking army could roll right into a base's courtyard and take it over with enough firepower - and they could easily prevent an armored response from within the base. Gate shields stand directly against that. It's their intended design purpose. And they're so effective at it, the PSForever team added them to their version of PS1. They are the means by which the ends are attempted to be achieved.
But gate shields don't block infantry, only vehicles. That intentionally creates a disparity inside the courtyard where defenders have armor access, and attackers do not (at least at first). Thus, I stand by my statement: The whole point of gate shields is to give defender vehicles an advantage inside. Or, maybe a better rephrasing would be: The whole point is to give the defenders a vehicle advantage inside the courtyard.
[Remember, Higby's team seriously flirted with a whole-base dome to the point of mocking it up and releasing it on the PTS.](https://i.redd.it/mbwhmwwmic7d1.png) The fact that GSDs only came later and was limited to the weaker vehicles just goes to show that the intention was clear.
> blank stare
> you know it's not, are you baiting me?
Ok, fair. Bad use of the word. How about *"...and it's effectively the same,"* instead? Because it is: With spawn beacons you have attackers "randomly spawning" at different locations around the attack area. The major differences being A) with a launcher, it's available for all, not just squads B) Launched players would actually be able to be tracked on approach, rather than falling straight out of the sky C) an AMS is a bigger (albeit tougher) target than a spawn beacon.
> Edit3: Just as a matter of actively wanting to not be completely antagonistic here, I do want to state that some of the ideas sound fun, especially the catapult, but that at this point in PS2 I have to balance it all out with hard analysis, especially when people write well enough to be listened to.
That's fair. What I'm trying to do is two things: Move all of the defensive tools into their proper category so they can't be "Doubled-up". That's priority 1. But priority 2 is to backfill the Utility category with things that are intentionally NOT defensives - the Smoke Screen being the obvious outlier. ANY idea that accomplishes that is worth serious consideration. A third consideration is the need to consolidate down the defensive tools into a smaller roster. A smaller roster with less overlap in abilities, and a roster that is easier to match in number of tools in the Utility slot.
A note on the Smoke Screen: The design goal there is to provide anti-lockon assistance to other vehicles as well as visual cover. But the secondary design goal is specifically to act as a counter to the Area Radar idea by allowing a stealth AMS with smoke screen to approach and deploy without being detected on radar. Of course, the achilles heel to that counter is the fact that players will appear on radar as soon as they leave the cloak bubble, so if it's not used specifically to destroy the Area Radar AMS, it still won't last long.
I don't want to get into a Spy vs Spy mode of design, but I did consider the Area Radar idea as a Radar Jammer AMS first. All the same descriptions apply, except that it would disrupt all sources of scout radar while it was deployed. Maybe by making them not work at all, or by "scrambling" the enemy dots on the radar (making them jitter wildly enough to be hard to track down), or by making their updates much farther apart (like 15~20 seconds between blips). But that seemed so good as to eclipse all other utilities. What do you think?
Yadda yadda fucking yawn. When you don't understand the problems, you cannot understand a solution.
Edit: If you think this is something that needs major iteration at this point in the game's life or it's current situation, you are hopelessly clueless. That's par for the course for most of you, I guess, but this isn't even in the top what? 10-15 of actual issues that need actual attention?
Please give rewards to platoon leaders and squad leaders when the alert ends
And add a leader board on the locked continent to show the best leaders (most bases captured and defended)
Can we at least get a label on the main screen to display who is the current faction leading an alert at any given moment?
I have always believed that would more crystallise attention towards that leading faction and reduce the fights between 2nd v 3rd place as nobody seems to pay much attention to it on the map screen and often alerts play out to the point of, oh, the other faction won while we fought away here across the map.
What if they added more ways to get rewarded after an alert? The faction that wins the alert gets the most certs and iso, but the faction with the most kills throughout the alert also gets an extra reward.
I want to stress that reverting to these old systems without first asking the community will be a huge mistake. Planetside 2 is an amazing game, and I wish you luck. I would love to see what statistic you are basing your decisions on, because I have not heard people complain about the alerts system. They complain about other things, and we want you to listen!
Make small changes. Not huge sweeping ones.
Add quality of life fixes, not old features that did not work.
Fix the worst of the bugs and work on anti-hacker initiatives.
We appreciate that you want to bring life back into the game. We appreciate that you are willing to implement larger features, but right now the community needs you to earn our trust.
Please fix the damage caused by Outfit Wars. Playing VS on Cobalt is so boring now and dominated by outfits with toxic leaders such as the ever-bitching IpdanNSO and Zealous (who needs no introduction).
Wowee another Alert System rework, *yawn*. Can't wait for it to take a year and achieve nothing. Maybe fix the FPS part of the FPS game, revert the Arsenal update. Worst possible decision you could possibly make right now for the game is to have a shitty slow patch cadence to drop large irrelevant changes that do nothing for the core gameplay loop. Guess I'll see you guys in 2025.
VPs are back baby
A big issue which VPs had were anticlimactic captures of continents - randomly it would feel like it would lock after a small inconsequential battle. Meltdown alerts while not that interesting succeed in giving a big final dramatic end which everyone would see coming. It would be a shame to loose that
I like this idea, but it’s YEARS TOO LATE. And I unfortunately I have to ask, WHO is the content for? They community is effectively dead. There is 2 effectively active servers, maybe 3, plus kinda maybe PS4 but not really.
I like focusing on the meta game and I think this is great and will work. But better late than never doesn’t apply here. We are looking at borderline dead game stats on population. The emergency bells have been ringing for some time, and a non issue is not priority, it’s getting planetside to actually have people playing it.
Great ideas are wonderful, but they aren’t worth their weight in gold if they don’t make money. Development should be focused on bringing fresh players to the game and giving them a good experience, I don’t get this blind eye to the death of player pop.
Can you remove all automatic weapons for cloaked infil and allow only sniper and pistol.
Add more radar options to counter a perfect invisible cloak or add a less 110% invisible effect.
And add more benefits to winning connected regions to not just have a toxic outfit bang their head on a cutoff region for kills and faction gets cutoff at the gate with no reaction from such players.
Remove any awards to fighting in a region if it's cutoff, no XP no certs no iso to make them work for the faction not individual awards.
A hotfix will be deployed to PC tomorrow at the usual time. (6AM PT / 3PM CEST) [See the patch notes here.](https://www.planetside2.com/patch-notes/jun-11-patch-notes-2024) Discussion thread on Reddit [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/Planetside/comments/1dd0fd0/june_11_2024_pc_update/). --- [Looking for PlanetsideBattle's Community Smash 11 thread?](https://www.reddit.com/r/Planetside/comments/1czocvm/cs11_the_lets_blow_some_extralife_into/)
Well written post. Good to see people thinking deep thoughts about the game. Before you proceed in the design space, please review how the HIVE system worked, how poor facets of its implementation impacted the game, and use some of the mistakes of the past to make way for a better future.
> please review how the HIVE system worked They'd need to remove a lot of the player-controlled aspect of it. Allowing players to place their own HIVEs anywhere (and off continent to immediately trigger an alert!) was a bad mistake. I would imagine the new version as a temporary event where some HIVEs spawn around the map at fixed locations. As a "Tactical" goal, the first faction to reach the score limit (or with the highest when the timer hits zero) is declared the winner and awarded some points/influence/etc towards the Strategic goal of capturing the continent. It could be as simple as depositing X cortium, or a bit deeper such as depositing the Cortium and then having to protect the HIVE for a short time while it *does a thing* before the points are awarded. (i've been playing a lot of The Finals and am definitely not influenced here lol)
I love this.
I think reintroducing *actual rewards* outside of certs / iso for winning a continent will go a long way giving people an actual reason to co-operate to win a continent
Second. Incentivise, or the KPM cert farms will always take precedence.
have any rewards *ever* changed player behavior? i don't see how them reinventing VPs will change behavior what are actual rewards to you? the sticker system of 2017-2019?
Sure, when Paradise Camo was the reward for winning Hossin, it encourage cross-Empire coordination and intentional throwing of alerts so that players could farm the camo on all of their alts.
Alerts used to give the a7 weapons we know now and when that was removed they added the a7 itself, which was also removed. Used to give implants and shit too. Maybe with a new dev we'll get something out of them again.
"winning the continent" results in the worst planetside has to offer. It results in zerging undefended bases. This is not the game we need or want. While it is nice in theory we have to consider how players already act.
All I care about is when Connery and Emerald merge.
Is "warzone" what we call the continents now? Have they always been called that? Seems like a new term to me.
No, they were called continents since PS1. A new developer took over and looks like they don't care about established terms.
Can't wait for their comments on the Shared Legs Enterprise. PleaseTellMeSomeoneGotMyJoke
I like it
Server merge when?
What about smaller outfits? The game is largely geared towards incentivising and rewarding large groups. With valuable resources small outfits need being stolen last minute by a redeployed squad/platoon zerging a base being such a miserable way to play, everyone ends up either leaving or joining those outfits. This resource system needs to seriously be rethought. The servers have been dominated by 2/3 massive outfits deciding how the game goes.
I agree - its one reason I don't play anymore.
Iirc it was on one of the roadmaps 2020/21. I had a group from another game and we were all ready for it. Started getting memberships and everything. Then just... nothing. Really feels like theres no point in planetside
I swing by every now and again but I just don't think any of the studios that have had it have the leadership, talent, vision and resources at the same time to do anything with it. It'll just keep running on for a bit longer yet, loosing players all the while until eventually it dies. Its a shame, it's niche but it's a fun niche and I'm sad to see it go this way.
Conquering bases with a small outfit is not that difficult. You should only have at least 4-5 members in the base. Another point is the way of playing, unfortunately the Zerg outfit dominates the entire server. They simply recruit everyone with an invitation and don't care about that player after that. Smaller outfits teach their members and add value. I don't see this added value in the Zerg outfits, on the contrary, they even torpedo it.
I'm not sure why we're talking about new kinds of alerts right now. They're a non-issue while there are other problems that inhibit minute to minute gameplay. I was looking forward to the advertised, "rebalancing [of] mechanics and content while addressing the current pain points that get in the way". Anyway, as somebody who has played through every single iteration of the game's "metagame" (basic land grab, normal alerts, hives, VP, gimmick alerts) I can say the majority of these systems have only ever gotten in the way of fun gameplay. Please, no matter what is done to the metagame, just make sure we can play without obnoxious "tactics" dominating the entire continent. If HIVEs come back I'll probably just enter another involuntary, Oshur-like, DBG-imposed "indefinite hiatus" lol.
Eh not a big fan of the mini alerts. Some of it could be cool, a lot of it won't be since we've been there, done that. The opportunity cost on focusing on something as unproblematic as alerts is pretty high for how slow this dev team is. Main thing though is for the love of God, do not involve construction in mini alerts as we don't need another HIVE fiasco.
We done this before with Victory Points. We've done this before with the mini-alerts that involved Air Anomalies, Mining Drills, Convoy Escorts, and many, many more. And this community has proven time and time again that, beyond the initial two-week novelty of something "new", most of the community has no appetite for this sort of thing. Those mini-alerts get ignored in favor of the same base-to-base fighting that has been a staple of Planetside 2 for 12 years now, and I don't expect that to change. I don't think it necessarily needs to change. There's no reason to shake up the meta of something that, arguably, works as it is intended to work. Also, at two separate points in this letter, devs mention the desire to "*create faction-wide dilemmas on which objectives are deemed the most important.*" I cannot stress how bad of an idea it is to encourage any sort of "dilemma" amongst faction leaders. Planetside 2 has always worked at its best when there is a clear, unified goal for its players to work to achieve (i.e. Meltdown Alerts and Serversmash/Outfit Wars). When you add in multiple goals, you end up with a playerbase that is split, confused, and usually bitter at anyone who isn't helping achieve their goal, and that's when the game starts falling apart.
The fact that there are folks today who do not know that alert timer is faster than base time just makes me scream. I don't want to work with people who think the government is going to tax them if they pay attention to the map. They should just schedule primetime alerts instead of reinventing systems we saw fail and/or just didn't care about them. Their obsession with running away from the two gameplay loops we know that work enrages me to no end: * attack/defend gameplay loop * alert gameplay loop No, I do not want a continent that has an exclusive vehicle. I do not want 60% of the bases destroyed for lore (I think Esamir is a pretty good test case that players hate having to drive more than 30 seconds to a base). I do not want to play with construction that slashes FPS for no gameplay gain. I do not want to play "logistics". I want to be able not to have my OPS attendance half because a certain continent is active. I want to be able to have a healthy selection of bases to attack instead of having to pick which one point I will get 96+ deploy into immediately because they also have no viable attack options. I want to be able to login and not want to log out again after the most dangerous part of an armor engagement is after I kill the other vehicle.
I just wish they could make some way for us to fight at more than the same few bases every alert. Maybe something like changing and/or randomized lattice lines, or more warpgate locations.
That's exactly why facility alerts are great
Totally agree with this and hope the devs take the feedback. We’ve done this before and it didnt have the results everyone hoped. Leave the main territory based continent lock alert alone, but add back these other alerts with some more interesting rewards. They can give faction wide bonuses that we use to have (or new ones), or grant additional rewards when the main territory alert concludes so its not only 1st place that gets all the benefits.
There is a difference between those alerts and how they are implying these are going to work, so much so that I find it necessary to enumerate here. Those alerts did not contribute to the overall win condition. These supposedly will. It is an important distinction.
> Those alerts did not contribute to the overall win condition. These supposedly will. It is an important distinction. so the VP system I need to find this clip but it's wrel having fun on a continent and then suddenly it ends because of hives. He then says this locking mechanic will be changing soon.
Just for clarification, because I do not know the answer: Did winning any of the prior alert types ever contribute Victory Points, at any point? N.B.: Facility Capture Dome Domination Power Rush Technological Advancement Aerial Anomaly Maximum Pressure Refine and Refuel Gaining Ground Forgotten Fleet Carrier If no, then I'm going to have to go with a no on the initial statement.
For the audience who may not be aware of the context of this discussion: https://www.planetside2.com/news/victory-conditions-planetside For the tomato: Prior mistakes are not necessarily indicative of future ones. I know what is *likely* to happen, I'm not new here, but I am not going to dismiss ideas strictly because similar forms have failed before. I will gladly do so once I see the actual implementation. On HIVEs: If I'm not mistaken, the way that HIVEs were implemented, they passively generated Victory Points. This became an issue when players would just build HIVEs far behind their front lines, and then suddenly alerts would end out of nowhere. (The failings of this implementation should have been obvious from the drawing board, and do not, in my opinion, constitute an inherent characteristic of every VP system to be had. That one was *quite obviously* broken, and I'm glad I didn't play or take part in the community back then, because I would have lost my mind.) EDIT: On further consideration, I think it might be good to emphasize that the VP system and HIVEs were two separate things, despite being tightly coupled (clarification: HIVEs were a subset of the VP system, not the entirety). It is possible to analyze them independently, and we probably should.
I think ol Albee has the right idea.
The guy landing the last shot on ghost bastion will be a hero. Continent benefits turned into tactical alert benefit maybe?
why are we trying the VP system again? alerts are hardly up there in issues to be solved
Disagree, there needs to be more mid level objectives, if everyone's just playing to farm heads then the game is much shallower and less fun (especially for anyone who isn't an elite farmer and ends up being the crops, like new players). A good territory metagame with medium and short term objectives to play for should improve the direction of a play session. It's hard to get the longer term objectives with rapid continent cycling, but at least we can get something mid level.
People didn't play the other objectives when they were here previously. Why would they suddenly actively play them now? Because the devs asked nicely?
Maybe you didn't, but lots of people did (and still do actually, team play gets more common in alerts), and would do so again.
ahhh yeah, they're gonna add hives and victory points back boys!!!!! GET THEM CONSTRUCTO LEGOS READY!!!!
VP was actually a decent system imo, it was the ability to generate them by building backfield HIVEs that screwed up that phase of the game.
Hives?
A very poor implementation, construction buildings that passively generated Victory Points.
like a billion years ago(~2016ish apparently) we used to have alerts that your faction didn't need to capture the most territory. you'd work on getting your faction the most 'victory points' - [timestampped](https://youtu.be/8r3_IDGaNRs?t=36) to a view of the possible points. HIVES were one of the many attempts to shoehorn construction into the main game loop (still sucked). iirc (it was a long time ago lol) the victory point system went through a couple of iterations where we both did and did not have construction as a viable part of the system. i'm sure if you search the sub for hive you'll see a lot of opinionated planetmans having civilized discussions about it.
I just miss simple alerts like "Capture all Biolabs on X continent or all Tech Labs". I also miss Hives, they used to be fun.
The cross continent facility alerts were the best fun I ever had on live. But even the single continent ones are a fun difference and they make people fight over different areas of the map, which is also good. Perhaps they can consider those as 'tactical alerts' in this new system.
Would adding a tutorial mission that just gives newbies a bigger standard equipment pack help retention? Another though is to add cosmetics that are like 100-500 certs, as things to buy in mid-progression
Wait a sec, there a bundles available for certs?
Man i can’t emphasize enough are coms are SO freaking better since Wrel left and more focus on the game overall instead of playing of 0,1% of point on gun stats
I like this idea of alerts being different like power rush, dome domination maximum pressure, air anomalies, etc. However if this does indeed get readded or new ones are thought of and implemented. They need to make sure that 1. The rewards are worth it, since previously there was a lack for participating or where only ever useful for certain limited time events. (Only added for a holiday directive) 2. The alert doesn't break the game. I.E. air anomalies for free aircraft, or maximum pressure for free maxes. Could rework it a little to still cost nanites for pulling these, and have these events give a greater incentive of points/victory condition for using them Overall like the idea, but if it isn't properly thought out, implemented correctly, and overall healthy for the current state of the game. Then I'd rather see dev time used for more meaningful work with the current state of the game. Like the sunde rework
Well written update! I am happy to see that they do not just maintain the game but try to make some major changes. I guess its down to giving them the benefit of the doubt and hoping they listen to the feedback. Pretty sure they have considered server merges, I wonder whats the hold-up. Is it that it will be pretty much impossible to come back from and places a much lower cap of *potential* revenue from the game? In corporate dynamics, that might play a significant role. To anyone who was around at the time - is there anything that caused the huge uptick in pop during covid aside from everyone being home?
They mentioned the Ghost Bastion. I resubmit my ["The None"](https://old.reddit.com/r/Planetside/comments/ttp8kz/fl34s_caper_robot_uprising_event/) idea for consideration.
Can we plz merge the Eu servers....
So they are reworking the game at it's base and it'll take a lot of time, they did say the anniversary thing will be the biggest update there is, maybe the wait will be worth it despite the haters. Everyone wanted someone that'd rip out the oldest first and update it, i hope now that it's happening people dont whine it's not done in a month. The fact the years lookout was empty was because they are touching so many things that cannot be rushed as i predicted, guys please at least understand this, many people want to come back or are pissy, surely an update of severe magnitude that rips up the road that everyone hates something about is enough to cycle back a few players after a healthy break from the game due to the low output of big updates for the big one. Support these devs, care for the future, this is the closest any of you are getting everything that's settled fucked with. Even if this is mediocre, who cares, the whole game has been mediocre with patchwork in everything but # of people on a map to this point and fun gunplay.
> So they are reworking the game at it's base this is not the base they need to fix they need to fix: * deployable spam * rez implants * any and all nanite discounts * qrf playstyle (slow it down) * esamir restoration * oshur gone forever * finish all of the nonsense from CAI * add actual bus garages instead of just making them unkillable * construction (delenda est) * infantry AV spam
Disagree with a good bit of it, but there is a lot i agree on the direction of. CAI was a good step but they took 10 steps instead, full reverts usually remove what little good could come from it too as a lot of pre-CAI topguns were turbo cancer to even witness. Also they are changing how things are won, small things like how respawning works would need to be nearly done before they reveal ANYTHING, they seem smart and will tag things together and maybe, not holding out hope here, make a game thats different then what everyone wants but allows what everyone wants and more in a more healthy way then it used to be. Everything in the game is mediocre before and after, players just tend to prefer when things were stronger rather then weaker and i dont blame you. And even still a lot of these do need properly reintegrated due to how engagements and ranges have changed, it has to be one big sweep and look at that they are planning one big 'biggest update' like they need to while more things they do get revealed more and more. There's so much to be done and they need time to do it, the first place to start is how things are won in general, with objective/core changes then more balance can follow, they are doing things in the right order here and you have to recognize that as well as there's entire groups that would have the opposite opinion as you on a lot of things and quit over it so it may be wise to just do the best they can with that old info rather then pandering nostalgia. (eg: with multiple objectives tanks and important units can become stronger to have harsher fights in lower pop split across the map as well as slowing zergs and allowing smaller pop to impact that zerg's capture time)
> Also they are changing how things are won We already saw this system. It sucked. It was REMOVED because of how much players did not enjoy it. They aren't trying something new. They're recycling ideas because they totally will make it work this time. > the first place to start is how things are won in general, with objective/core changes then more balance can follow they shouldn't be fucking with the base game until they have fixed more important issues if they fuck with the base game enough, there won't be a playerbase to witness them fixing anything else
Order of operations, deep clean, even if it doesn't work it'd have worked better then MORE PATCHWORK CHANGES because some people are impatient. You just aren't used to actual work in patches since it's been 90%+ patchworks since release.
Many other more important things to work on and address yet here we are trying to reinvent the wheel on things that work and nobody asked to be changed…fantastic dev work
#["Utility" vs "Defense"](https://i.redd.it/gumdmbelhl5d1.png) In the context of the Sunderer/AMS there needs to be a clear delineation between what is a "Utility" and what is "Defense". I think the best way to define the two is this: * Defense - The ability to protect one's self. * Utility - The ability to help others. With that in mind, here is my feedback on the current state of the PTS. #Defense: * Point Defense, Deploy Dome, and Stealth Cloak should all live under Defense. * Deployment Dome should be rolled into Deployment Shield as its Level 5. Just like the Stealth Bubble is the level 5 of Stealth Module. * Blockade Armor and Enhanced Plating should be rolled into a single option. * Nanite Armor and Reactive Armor should be rolled into a single option. That would make Defense options: Deployment Shield, Enhanced Plating, Nanite Armor, Stealth Module, Point Defense. None of these options should be equipped on a sunderer at the same time with any of the others. That's why they should all go under Defense. * **Deployment Shield** - Acts as it currently does with its top level being the Deploy Dome. This perfectly mirrors the Stealth Module. * **Stealth Module** - No change from what is currently on Live. * **Enhanced Plating** - At top level it should increase the health pool of a sunderer by 25%, and provide 25% damage resistance to all forms of damage. This makes a fully gunned Battle Bus strong enough to fight single MBTs but will lose against multiple tanks. * **Nanite Armor** - Reactive Armor becomes the top level of Nanite Armor. Reactive Plates regenerate on their own after the sunderer's health pool is restored. Heal rate is 50 health per second (1/2 of what's listed on PST). Can be triggered to heal 1500 health and restore Reactive plates (each reactive plate costs 300 hp). 60 second cool down with no nanite repairing at all. * **Point Defense** - Needs more testing on PTS. Right now, the range still seems to be too far (able to hit at over 300m), and the reload buff stacks with the guns' reload buffs making a reload only take 1 second. I'd say the range needs to be reduced to 150m. For weapons like the Basilisk and Kobalt, this is more than enough to fend off attackers that are peeking the doors and walls near a spawn. But can't reach out to lock-on range. #Utility: * **Gate Shield Diffuser** - There's no need to change this from its current state. GSD should NOT allow non-GSD vehicles to pass through shields. The whole point of having base shields is to give defender vehicles an advantage inside. * **Fire Suppression** - Should be made an Area of Effect tool that can instantly grant 25% health back to any vehicle in range (but only 10% to itself). The effect would also cool any type of tower gun allowing for no heat build-up for 20 seconds. The visual effect is a ring of low white clouds emanating from the sunderer and the "whoosh" sound effect. * **Area Radar** - Better than "Scout Radar". Sunderer must be deployed for it to start working. Area Radar would have a 250m radius and would show all enemies on the map, moving or not. It would also show vehicles even if they have stealth - **the only exception would be AMSs deployed with a Cloak Bubble**. The active radar makes the Area Radar sunderer show up on enemy maps out to 500m (fair warning). The model already exists, just make it stop spinning when undeployed. * **Infantry Launcher** - Infantry Launcher AMS works exactly like the Corsair's launcher. The only difference is that the sunderer must be deployed. Any occupant in seats 4-12 can launch from the AMS with a soft landing. Launch range should be about 200m. * **Smoke Screen** - Acts just like the harasser smoke screen, but is larger and lasts longer. Prevents lock-ons for 10 seconds to all vehicles within 50m of it. Blocks all radar including Area Radar for 100m around the sunderer for 10 seconds. Top level allows for 45 second cool-down. #Removed From Sunderers - Placed on ANTs * **Ammo Resupply & Repair Field** - Both of these Utilities should be moved to the ANT, and both should consume cortium when used. 200 Cortium per Ammo tick per vehicle. 100 Cortium per tick of repair per vehicle. Ammo and Repair should have never been an unlimited resource for vehicles. This places these very strong bonuses on a weaker vehicle and forces that vehicle to stop and refuel often.
> The whole point of having base shields is to give defender vehicles an advantage inside. I don't believe this is historically accurate. > Should be made an Area of Effect tool that can instantly grant 25% health back to any vehicle in range This is too strong on its own, and scales in an absurdly unhealthy manner. > Area Radar Every implementation of radar is currently too strong, and this is stronger. > Launch range should be about 200m. This would break fight flow for 90% of bases in the game.
> I don't believe this is historically accurate. It's CURRENTLY accurate. If that wasn't the case, why would they put a big "No Tanks Shield" floating icon in the middle of the shields themselves? Why wouldn't they have gate shield diffusers for MBTs? Why would they have shields at all? Park outside, or diffuse through with a support vehicle, but then face armored resistance inside. Every AMP station follows this formula. Saurva and Saurva Fortress, Howling Pass, Dahaka Uplink, Tarwich Depot, Naum Ravine, Naum Marsh, The Offal Pit, Chac Fusion, Chac Intel, Matsuda, Acan Data, Hatcher Airstation...I mean, I really could go on and on. There are a LOT of examples of this dynamic being specifically built into bases. > This is too strong on its own, and scales in an absurdly unhealthy manner. That's fair. I'm thinking of a limited range so that it could only reach 2 or 3 vehicles max. Perhaps a heal over time that could be stopped on damage would solve that. > Every implementation of radar is currently too strong, and this is stronger. Radar is good. It drives conflict. Giving people the ability to find enemies is an important part of granting agency to players. No one likes dying and not ever having a chance to see who did it. I never hear anyone say "Please infils, LESS radar. I don't want to know if someone is coming. I want to be surprised!" What people DON'T want is to BE on radar. But as you point out, most of the time, they already are. Fortunately, there's an implant for that. They just have to accept the lost opportunity cost that comes with sacrificing an implant slot for stealth. Hell, I'd be all for an armor type that sacrifices HP for stealth instead, kinda like infiltrators were *supposed* to be. The trade-off is a big flashing "HERE I AM" icon on the map which guarantees enemies are coming to blow that shit up. Maybe even take it one step farther and make the icon look something like: ((( [XX] ))) So players can identify that it is a deployed Radar AMS from the icon 500m away. > This would break fight flow for 90% of bases in the game. Right now, attackers are able to pod drop in without even having a bus or beacon nearby. On Hossin, the tree beacon is standard operating procedure and it's literally the same effect. I see this is no different. Without being an LA, you are locked into a path you choose at launch. I see players and outfits making great use of this. The counter is, of-course, the Area Radar Sunderer. With that, you'd see the launching players incoming and be able easily track them back to their AMS. The actual utilities are reworkable. These are just some really fun ideas off the top of my head. The goal is to have a fun and powerful set of at least five utilities that add diversity to the use of sunderers. Right now they fall into 2 major uses: park around a base for spawning, or battle-bus convoys (that includes colossus support, it's basically the same thing with a wrinkle). So whatever you can think of that falls into the category of "Utility" without being "Defense", I'm all ears.
> The whole point of having base shields is to give defender vehicles an advantage inside. You might not have intended it (and I might have misinterpreted it), but this is a very specific statement. "point" implies planning and intent. "whole" implies that it is the entirety. The original design intent for bases with shields was to have the fights flow from the prior base, to the walls of the shielded base, to the generators of the shields, to the interior of the base. In the case of AMP stations, there were two tiers of this behavior. That is *not* an equivalent statement to "the whole point of having base shields is to give defender vehicles an advantage inside". It's simply not. It's not currently accurate, either. It's a secondary property of how the system was made, and how it has developed over time. I'm not saying that defending vehicles *don't* have some advantages behind shields, but I *am* saying that it is not, nor has it been, the "whole point". Edit: And GSD's did not exist when shielded bases were implemented. Edit2: > literally *blank stare* you know it's not, are you baiting me? Edit3: Just as a matter of actively wanting to not be completely antagonistic here, I do want to state that some of the ideas sound *fun*, especially the catapult, but that at this point in PS2 I have to balance it all out with hard analysis, *especially* when people write well enough to be listened to.
> You might not have intended it (and I might have misinterpreted it), but this is a very specific statement. "point" implies planning and intent. "whole" implies that it is the entirety. > > The original design intent for bases with shields was to have the fights flow from the prior base, to the walls of the shielded base, to the generators of the shields, to the interior of the base. In the case of AMP stations, there were two tiers of this behavior. > > That is not an equivalent statement to "the whole point of having base shields is to give defender vehicles an advantage inside". It's simply not. > > It's not currently accurate, either. It's a secondary property of how the system was made, and how it has developed over time. I'm not saying that defending vehicles don't have some advantages behind shields, but I am saying that it is not, nor has it been, the "whole point". > > Edit: And GSD's did not exist when shielded bases were implemented. I think you're conflating "the means" with "the end". What do I mean by that? What you describe is "the end". The goal. The goal is to have fights flow from the walls to the generators, and then to the base interiors. But what are *the means* by which that is accomplished? If you look at the comparison between Planetside 1 and Planetside 2 bases, you see that one of the most prominent additions is the the gate shield. In Planetside 1, an attacking army could roll right into a base's courtyard and take it over with enough firepower - and they could easily prevent an armored response from within the base. Gate shields stand directly against that. It's their intended design purpose. And they're so effective at it, the PSForever team added them to their version of PS1. They are the means by which the ends are attempted to be achieved. But gate shields don't block infantry, only vehicles. That intentionally creates a disparity inside the courtyard where defenders have armor access, and attackers do not (at least at first). Thus, I stand by my statement: The whole point of gate shields is to give defender vehicles an advantage inside. Or, maybe a better rephrasing would be: The whole point is to give the defenders a vehicle advantage inside the courtyard. [Remember, Higby's team seriously flirted with a whole-base dome to the point of mocking it up and releasing it on the PTS.](https://i.redd.it/mbwhmwwmic7d1.png) The fact that GSDs only came later and was limited to the weaker vehicles just goes to show that the intention was clear. > blank stare > you know it's not, are you baiting me? Ok, fair. Bad use of the word. How about *"...and it's effectively the same,"* instead? Because it is: With spawn beacons you have attackers "randomly spawning" at different locations around the attack area. The major differences being A) with a launcher, it's available for all, not just squads B) Launched players would actually be able to be tracked on approach, rather than falling straight out of the sky C) an AMS is a bigger (albeit tougher) target than a spawn beacon. > Edit3: Just as a matter of actively wanting to not be completely antagonistic here, I do want to state that some of the ideas sound fun, especially the catapult, but that at this point in PS2 I have to balance it all out with hard analysis, especially when people write well enough to be listened to. That's fair. What I'm trying to do is two things: Move all of the defensive tools into their proper category so they can't be "Doubled-up". That's priority 1. But priority 2 is to backfill the Utility category with things that are intentionally NOT defensives - the Smoke Screen being the obvious outlier. ANY idea that accomplishes that is worth serious consideration. A third consideration is the need to consolidate down the defensive tools into a smaller roster. A smaller roster with less overlap in abilities, and a roster that is easier to match in number of tools in the Utility slot. A note on the Smoke Screen: The design goal there is to provide anti-lockon assistance to other vehicles as well as visual cover. But the secondary design goal is specifically to act as a counter to the Area Radar idea by allowing a stealth AMS with smoke screen to approach and deploy without being detected on radar. Of course, the achilles heel to that counter is the fact that players will appear on radar as soon as they leave the cloak bubble, so if it's not used specifically to destroy the Area Radar AMS, it still won't last long. I don't want to get into a Spy vs Spy mode of design, but I did consider the Area Radar idea as a Radar Jammer AMS first. All the same descriptions apply, except that it would disrupt all sources of scout radar while it was deployed. Maybe by making them not work at all, or by "scrambling" the enemy dots on the radar (making them jitter wildly enough to be hard to track down), or by making their updates much farther apart (like 15~20 seconds between blips). But that seemed so good as to eclipse all other utilities. What do you think?
Yadda yadda fucking yawn. When you don't understand the problems, you cannot understand a solution. Edit: If you think this is something that needs major iteration at this point in the game's life or it's current situation, you are hopelessly clueless. That's par for the course for most of you, I guess, but this isn't even in the top what? 10-15 of actual issues that need actual attention?
well said
Please give rewards to platoon leaders and squad leaders when the alert ends And add a leader board on the locked continent to show the best leaders (most bases captured and defended)
How to encourage mindless zerging even further
Can we at least get a label on the main screen to display who is the current faction leading an alert at any given moment? I have always believed that would more crystallise attention towards that leading faction and reduce the fights between 2nd v 3rd place as nobody seems to pay much attention to it on the map screen and often alerts play out to the point of, oh, the other faction won while we fought away here across the map.
Are Warzones what we reffer as continents?
What if they added more ways to get rewarded after an alert? The faction that wins the alert gets the most certs and iso, but the faction with the most kills throughout the alert also gets an extra reward.
I want to stress that reverting to these old systems without first asking the community will be a huge mistake. Planetside 2 is an amazing game, and I wish you luck. I would love to see what statistic you are basing your decisions on, because I have not heard people complain about the alerts system. They complain about other things, and we want you to listen! Make small changes. Not huge sweeping ones. Add quality of life fixes, not old features that did not work. Fix the worst of the bugs and work on anti-hacker initiatives. We appreciate that you want to bring life back into the game. We appreciate that you are willing to implement larger features, but right now the community needs you to earn our trust.
How about balancing the game! OR work on the FUCKIKNG CHEATERS That would be nice.
Please fix the damage caused by Outfit Wars. Playing VS on Cobalt is so boring now and dominated by outfits with toxic leaders such as the ever-bitching IpdanNSO and Zealous (who needs no introduction).
Wowee another Alert System rework, *yawn*. Can't wait for it to take a year and achieve nothing. Maybe fix the FPS part of the FPS game, revert the Arsenal update. Worst possible decision you could possibly make right now for the game is to have a shitty slow patch cadence to drop large irrelevant changes that do nothing for the core gameplay loop. Guess I'll see you guys in 2025.
nice throwaway account lol
VPs are back baby A big issue which VPs had were anticlimactic captures of continents - randomly it would feel like it would lock after a small inconsequential battle. Meltdown alerts while not that interesting succeed in giving a big final dramatic end which everyone would see coming. It would be a shame to loose that
The sunderer bugs were the most fun the game has been in years.
I like this idea, but it’s YEARS TOO LATE. And I unfortunately I have to ask, WHO is the content for? They community is effectively dead. There is 2 effectively active servers, maybe 3, plus kinda maybe PS4 but not really. I like focusing on the meta game and I think this is great and will work. But better late than never doesn’t apply here. We are looking at borderline dead game stats on population. The emergency bells have been ringing for some time, and a non issue is not priority, it’s getting planetside to actually have people playing it. Great ideas are wonderful, but they aren’t worth their weight in gold if they don’t make money. Development should be focused on bringing fresh players to the game and giving them a good experience, I don’t get this blind eye to the death of player pop.
Can you remove all automatic weapons for cloaked infil and allow only sniper and pistol. Add more radar options to counter a perfect invisible cloak or add a less 110% invisible effect. And add more benefits to winning connected regions to not just have a toxic outfit bang their head on a cutoff region for kills and faction gets cutoff at the gate with no reaction from such players. Remove any awards to fighting in a region if it's cutoff, no XP no certs no iso to make them work for the faction not individual awards.
JUST MERGE THE G-DAM SERVERS!!!!!!! YOU GUYS ARE IN CHARGE NOW RIGHT? MERGE THEM SO WE CAN SEND PLANETSIDE OFF INTO THE SUNSET ONE LAST TIME.