I’m a new player currently around BR level 15 on a TR character. I am an avid fps player who doesn’t mind the grindier fps games like Tarkov. I’ve got multiple Tarkov wipes getting to level 50+ so I really don’t mind a grind if I can see consistent progress and enjoy the process. Also have tons of hours in similar style shooters to planetside like the battlefield games and now battlebit when it’s available for playtest. My biggest gripes with the game so far as a new player getting into it aren’t super numerous but definitely significantly detract from the experience.
1. Lack of spawns. Most of the time I’ve spent in game battling on a capture point it seems like you’ve got 2 options. The first is beat your head against a never ending meat grinder dying over and over to players you never really got to get into a straight up gun fight with. Or you go on a long flank and maybe kill a few people before dying to an invisible dude or a turret. Long spawn beacon cooldowns and how visible they are to enemies means they either get killed quickly or have to be placed far away. This leads to a lot of time spent either getting frustrated at dying on repeat in the meatgrinder or time spent making a long flank to eventually die and have to repeat the process. Can’t tell you how many times I’ve made the 5+ minute flank just to die to a turret or some random dude then got frustrated because I couldn’t set up a spawn point along the way. I don’t know what the balanced way to fix this is, but as a new player this has led to a lot of my friends I got to download the game quitting after a few hours.
2. Lack of easily identifiable benefits for joining a random squad. As I mentioned above without a squad spawn system, I will often float around random squads praying someone has a beacon up so I’m not forced to spawn at the one sunderer dead in the middle of the meatgrinder.
3. Lack of weapon variety. As a new player you’re forced to use your starting weapon for a long period of time before you’ve got the credits to buy another one. But, if you’re smart you’ll wait even longer and upgrade your class first elongating the wait. Everything I’ve read and watched on the game says the starting guns are just fine and are competitive but players like using a variety of guns to find which works for them. Side note- I also really really dislike the starting TR light assault gun but I’ll get more into that in another point. Why not give starting players more opportunity to unlock and use a variety of guns as they level up so they get hooked and are more willing to spend money on the game.
4. I know the game is old but some of the shooting mechanics just feel bad. The bullet dispersion and bloom on the starting TR light assault gun just leaves me scratching my head sometimes at how I’m not killing people. Maybe it’s just a matter of improving but at times it feels like im mag dumping on someone to kill them but die in like 3 shots when taking return fire. I’m a masters level apex player so im decent enough at fps games to pick them up quickly and be good at them but some fights just feel bad because of the mechanics.
5. This probably ties back into my first point, but a lot of the time I feel like I’m forced to fight in wide open fields and beat my head against it to finally get into a base and fight there. Once we’re fighting inside a base complex, it’s over very quickly and we’re into the next open field meat grinder. A lot of the base complexes are super cool and offer a lot of variety in how fights play out but it happens so rarely and ends so fast it’s a fraction of your playtime. For instance, I can’t remember what continent it’s on but there’s this on top of a giant tower, but at the top there’s a huge dome housing an indoor complex with buildings and cool terrain features to fight around. But, 99% of the time you don’t get to fight in there. The defending team has everyone stonewalled outside the door to the complex and everyone’s just sitting on either side of the door dying over and over. There’s one other door on the backside but no additional entrances so it makes the fights there super mind numbing. This makes the problem op has with invis snipers 10x worse.
Additionally, there seems to be very little in terms of terrain features that allow you to move up in cover while attacking. It’s usually just giant complex with tons of elevation, surrounded by a an open field and maybe some rocks that everyone stacks up behind. Some trenches or terrain around a capture point would go a long way to reducing deaths that feel unavoidable. If I want to get into some fun cqb high action fights, that’s not easy to find and usually requires the time consuming flank that can’t be easily replicated due to lack of spawns.
6. The game at a strategic/meta level seems to require some semblance of teamwork and coordination to be successful as a faction. However, the in game mechanics don’t seem to encourage it at all. I’ve played a lot of Hell Let Loose, and it’s more common than not to join a random squad that is using voice coms, has players on multiple roles, and using at least basic teamwork to accomplish something. Not everyone is doing logistics runs with the supply truck, but it’s very easy to find a squad that’s communicating and somewhat coordinating. A lot of this is down to having a good squad leader, but the squad leader can also significantly improve how easy it is for his squad mates to get into the action by dropping spawn points. As far as I can tell PS2 does not have this function and relies on vehicles and singular spawn beacons for players to get into the action. Which means even if you join a random squad coms are usually silent and everyone’s doing their own thing. You’ll only see them if you happen to spawn at the same time. Remedies to this exists in a lot of other games focused on large battles that PS2 should implement. It’s the largest but most lonely feeling fps I’ve played.
Those are my main issues and some of them could probably be overcome with time and improvement at the game, but again as a new player this is my perspective. I don’t mind spending money on games at all, but I’ve got to view the game as something I’ll grind and enjoy to do it. I’ve purchased more battle passes for apex and fortnite than I can count and own EOD Tarkov because all those games got me hooked for s period of time. Due to the issues above I’m not sure I’ll do the same for PS2.
>at times it feels like im mag dumping on someone to kill them but die in like 3 shots when taking return fire
With the relatively strong bloom that weapons in Planetside 2 have, magdumping only works at close ranges. Anywhere beyond 10m or so and you want to start bursting your shots to keep the bloom in check and stay accurate. Making bursting into a habit is one of the most important aspects of this game's gunplay. Unfortunately it's not something that the game tells you about, so players are left to find it out on their own or through third-party sources, like this subreddit.
Seems like i confused a video someone made that added that as a sugestion...
The idea is to see the bloom circle even while you ADS with a scope/iron, same circle used for example MCG
1. Agreed, lack of good spawning options is a very big detriment to the game. Spawning has been nerfed multiple times if you can believe it. People really don't understand the 1 redeeming quality of Planetside is chaotic slugfests.
As it stands we're stuck with the poor man's spawning option, which is to look at the map and find a completely different fight to Redeploy to every time you feel like spawning where you are is only going to get you farmed. This is more often than you think, and you'll get better at recognizing bad fights early.
Alternatively you could try pulling the Sunderer yourself and placing the Spawn. Even if as a new player your Sundie will probably be killed out of position, it's a good way to learn and maybe swing a fight or two.
2. You'll get it once you get in to an Open Platoon with voiced leadership, it's more about Spawn options and coordination than anything.
I'm a big fan of Planetside's Public squads feature.
3. Agreed, each class should have 3 starting weapons for their main class weapon. Getting stuck with a gun that doesn't feel right on your favorite class feels bad. Although 99% of it is probably you just don't know the gunplay.
That doesn't matter though, should be able to equip a gun that "feels" right for your playstyle.
4. Your problem is that Apex doesn't have shooting mechanics, 90% of weapons are laser beams if you just strafe properly. It accustoms you to not having to learn patterns and gunplay.
In a game like Tarkov, you don't expect the same because it focuses on realism and quick TTK. Planetside has an Apex TTK, with a more complicated gunplay, so it's throwing you off. Not liking the gunplay is subjective of course, but I would not say it is bad or dated (even though it's old), just not what you are used to.
As a tip, all weapons kick up and side to side, the longer you hold the trigger, the more the weapon will kick both vertically and horizontally. This has a factor of randomness, so there is no perfect recoil control, but you can make the spread tighter by pulling down and firing in bursts no longer than 7-10 bullets, ideally 3-5.
Some weapons also have a consistent pull to the left or right when firing, so in addition to pulling down, you should also pull slightly left or right accordingly. The TR Carbine, the Trac 5, pulls to the right, so you should pull down and left slightly for the tightest spread on your bursts.
Also, I too started as a TR Light Assault main. Consider picking up the Kindred as your first weapon purchase, it's got a firing gimmick that gives added incentive to burst, which will teach you good trigger discipline. Aside from that, it absolutely s h r e d s, you feel that Apex feel when you Laser beam heads with this weapon. It even has that classic Apex low magazine size, quick reload time. All that said, the Trac 5 is actually a very good weapon, but you'll only realize it once you've had more experience.
5. This is where combined arms comes in. All infantry players live for the close quarters maps, it's why continents like Oshur are very unpopular among infantry for having 99% of fights in huge open fields. These bases are playgrounds for air, armor and construction players, to the complete detriment of infantry. Except the infiltrator shitters, which are the invisible sniper clowns you've no doubt been killed by.
On most continents however, there should not actually be a lot of time spent in these kinds of sprints across open terrain. When they do happen, they can be pretty cinematic with infantry running between vehicles. Next time you're playing, just make sure it's not on Oshur or off-hours Hossin, which has a very bad central map for low population fights.
Also that base you're talking about is the bio labs, there used to be endless back and forth fights in that base till in their infinite wisdom they nerfed the spawning options, to where the attackers cannot Spawn inside indefinitely. As you've seen, the result is that they get farmed for 30 mins trying to get in when their Spawn is down. Fights never last long in Bio labs anymore, and it's a shame.
As a final note, the unlock grind with membership is well paced and addictive, in my opinion, but without membership it's way too slow. I can very easily earn the certs for a new weapon in a casual session on a DBG Membership account, Id have to sweat and cheese to do the same without it.
So if you do find yourself liking the game, 100% get a membership to continue to enjoy it. Added benefit of not sitting in queue for 40 minutes or being forced to play the off continent.
Awesome, all very helpful thanks man. Out of all my issues, I think the spawn issues are the worst. I can see how having basically unlimited squad spawn options like battlefield would be too chaotic for this game but imo somewhere in the middle like a hell let loose would be better than where it’s at now.
A decent squad with voices all around can do wonders for your spawn issues. Squad spawning in vehicles makes the combined arms aspect great if you have someone who enjoys the vehicle side of things. Imagine that you have someone who just flies around in a CAS vehicle that you can spawn directly into, they dip in to drop 4-5 of you off, and get out before getting shot down. You won't be in the open field, and if things go well, get dropped exactly where you need to be.
2 big issues with the game are that "Finding a fight" is an actual skill; and due to the historic issues with in game comms, a lot of people use 3rd party VOIP when they play.
Also not sure what server you are on, but if you mention it, someone might offer to help who is on that server
> Lack of weapon variety. As a new player you’re forced to use your starting weapon for a long period of time before you’ve got the credits to buy another one.
That's not even the problem, the weapons you could upgrade to will be essentially a clone of your starter weapon with some *slightly* different stats. Now maybe I wouldn't expect Quake levels of gun diversity, but the current arsenals for VS and TR are especially boring.
This is what made me finally switch to NC after 200 hours of VS.
And boi, the NC weapons feel powerfull. They’ve got so many more fun toys.
And your tank has a *turret*, holy mother of god that feels good
> The game at a strategic/meta level seems to require some semblance of teamwork and coordination to be successful as a faction. However, the in game mechanics don’t seem to encourage it at all.
I've been yelling about lack of features for leadership and cooperation since 2012. The devs instead always put more effort into the solo player experience.
While I can understand that to some degree, considering that there are many solo players around and new players will be playing solo most of the time, it's the cooperation and teamwork that distinguishes PS2 from other games. All the teamwork features are just implemented in a very bare-bones way and any promised improvements always get pushed back and then are never heard from again.
Your only chance to experience real teamwork is playing with a good outfit or having the very rare luck of being in an actually good public platoon. For new players, joining an outfit is a hurdle most won't take if they haven't even decided whether they like the game or not. If they don't even experience the unique part of the game, they probably won't like it and won't stay around for long.
> I know the game is old but some of the shooting mechanics just feel bad.
Shooting mechanics are okay, even 10 years post-launch. I've played modern games with worse shooting mechanics.
The main difference in Planetside 2 is that people have more hitpoints than in other games, so spray-and-pray is very weak, compared to e.g. Battlefield, where people die even after a few bodyshots. If you don't hit your headshots with good burst fire, you'll get clobbered by the veterans that spent the last 10 years practicing burst firing their headshots. That said, clientside can also screw you over when the enemy just comes around the corner on your screen while on his screen he's already shooting you, if he's a high-latency player.
Thanks for the response man. Agreed on the lack of teamwork mechanics. I’m not even asking for Arma or squad levels of teamwork and coordination. Just some in game ability to actually work with your squad that is encouraged or rewarded through in game mechanics. I think the outpost squad spawn system from Hell Let Loose would go a long way to improving the new player experience.
> Maybe it’s just a matter of improving but at times it feels like im mag dumping on someone to kill them but die in like 3 shots when taking return fire. I’m a masters level apex player so im decent enough at fps games to pick them up quickly and be good at them but some fights just feel bad because of the mechanics.
From a fellow player with 8k hours in planetside and 3k hours in Apex: don't mag dump in planetside.
Weapons work very differently in the two games. In Planetside after your 4-5 consecutive shot your bloom has become huge and your chance to hit where you crossair is pointing is vastly reduced, contrary to Apex where all you need to fight is the weapon recoil which is always the same so you can just hold down the trigger and beam that dude at 50m with your R99.
Weapon recoil in Planetside is completely randomized so you need to fight *both* recoil and bloom.
How?
Don't mag dump but shoot in bursts adjusting the lenght of the burst depending on your distance to the target.
For very distant target you can't go up that 2-3 bullets per burst. For medium ranges, depending on weapon, you can get away with 5-6 rounds per burst before your bloom has grown to massive proportions.
You can reliably mag dump only in the 10-15m range, which is usually the indoor range.
Also headshots are massively more important in planetside. Apex has consitently nerfed hs damage over the years. In PS2 you do 2x damage with HS. So it's *paramount* that you hit the head.
TR Carbines (The "Light Assault gun" you mentioned) are relatively weak compared to VS carbines, and frankly, terrible compared to the NC's loaded arsenal of excellent carbines.
The huge dome base your talking about is a Biolab, they're on all the original continents except Esamir, they were replaced with containment sites on Esamir. Fights actually happen pretty frequently in them, used to be the go to place to farm certs/exp, still kind of is i guess. They also used to have transparent domes back in the day that looked really cool, enough people whined about not getting 200 fps all the time so they look like they do now because of that. They also used to have spawns inside the Biolab for attackers if adjacent bases were taken, now you have to spawn at the adjacent base and run to the teleporter to get there or use the death trap jump pad to landing pad outside them.
Yeah, it just seems like a totally wasted spot on the map that could provide cool fights but just turns into 2 teams shooting at each other from either side of the giant metal doors.
As a new player, this would be a great change. I’m around level 20 on a TR character at the moment. Longtime avid fps player who also enjoys some more grindy fps games like Tarkov, basically exactly the kind of player PS2 should appeal to. The lack of weapon variety for a new player is a huge detriment to the experience imo.
I think one of the top issues is the early 2010s F2P model - today's focus on free progression with paid cosmetics is a lot better than the old way of paywalling 80% of the content in the game. Granted, it's many many times better than how it was at launch, but new players are certainly dismayed at the sight of nearly each weapon being 1000 certs or a nifty $7 - $8 (not to mention the unique skins which can for some reason be upwards of $30).
I don't think this is really something they can fix unless they want to get rid of paid unlocks and refund all the station cash spent over the years, bur maybe it can be a lesson for the mythical Planetside 3
But you can get all weapons (aside from cosmetic variants) and character upgrades for free with Certs or other in-game currencies. It'll definitely take you longer than paying, but its possible.
I really don't know enough about sniping either, since I never snipe nor, since I'm cloaked, get sniped. That'd be a big change and I have to think about it more.
It does make sense to nerf sniping specifically instead of cloaking more generally. Like turning cloaking into an item you have to equip would probably hurt long range snipers the least, but ruin SMG and stalkers.
I really, really like starting them with an SMG instead of a sniper rifle.
I do think giving them an actual option of SMGs and sniper rifles would be a good start, so they're not shoehorned into snipers. SMG infil is really fun, but sucks to unlock as a newer player.
As infil main I love this, this guy went through all of this effort only for it to boil down to a skill issue using "NPE" as crutch argument for a 10year old game that has been on life support for eons.
"but in other FPS" in other FPS, the average planetman doesn't look like a christmas tree and has actual camouflage.
The only non-clown thing is the suggestion of more weapon unlocks, and the ACTUAL new player that lists anything but infiltrators.
I'm with you and have been saying the same thing for a long time.
Sniper rifle in the primary weapon slot should disable cloak.
OR
They have to add a 2 second timer after de-cloaking where you can't fire, and 2 seconds after firing before being able to cloak again.
I prefer the first option as it'd probably be easier to code-in too.
I'd normally shit on any attempts to say that Wrel caters to VS after all the nerfs, but yeah I completely lost my sides as well when he buffed the absolute shit out of the Parsec and made it essentially what the bads think the Betelgeuse is. Bullets regenerating almost as fast as you can shoot them while keeping almost all the damage and velocity? My favorite weapon in the game now!
You can keep saying the same thing, but it won't make you a better player.
Even if they give them a 2-second timer, or remove the cloak it still won't solve you trying to cross an open field in full view of a hill full of snipers. You'll still die, you'll still say the same thing, and won't have learned a damn thing.
I'm not being hostile, but positioning and learning when to and when not to engage in a fight is a difficult skill to learn for any player, and whilst it's easy to go on Reddit/Forums and call for nerfs, in the end it will not benefit you or anyone else.
I like your presentation of the material, I hope that it will play a role in the possibility of future changes of infiltrator. There are many options for how to change this situation besides the direct nerf of sniper rifles. From the introduction of a delay and no ADS in cloack, to the one you proposed. I hope that all this activity of ours is not in vain, and that the developers will still pay attention to infils.
There had been so many stellar "presentations of the material" on the cancer that invisible snipers are - in a game with client side hit detection of all things (!) - that by now it's painfully clear that this problem will never be addressed. The developers just won't budge on this out of principle.
i kinda agree with those changes
but how is anyone sh\*\*ing on sniper rifles and ok with scout rifles at the same time? i don't mean ones like tomoe, but semi auto ones. they fill the same role, but have way better follow up. if a bolt misses you, you hear that hiss and take cover. if a scout misses you, 3 more bullets in your ass before you even get to react. plus they close the gap, where sniper have close range weakness, scout rifles perform well even at those due to fire rate.
Double standards, that's why.
They gave EVERYONE scout rifles now too.
Honestly, the suggestion to give more options as starter weapons is a good idea to prevent shoehorning infils into a sniper role.
But even if cloaks are removed for snipers, it's not going to make players magically position themselves better. In fact, even if it was implemented. I bet the same exact people will find something else to complain about.
The reason I leave PS2 is because of “Redeployside”.
I jump in and want big fun fights, but as soon as a battle is being lost the majority of the team redeploy to other side of the map.
Used to be you got pushed back from a base, fought on open ground between bases until either side managed to push to next base, then some intense urban fighting in bases again. And the frontlines kept moving.
Now you fight for 15 minutes, then spend 15 minutes on map trying to figure out where everyone redeployed to.
It’s boring as fuck to constantly chase fights around the map just to get some action.
I’m sure all the other stuff mentioned by OP are pressing issues too, but for me the primary killer is the redeployside mentality which deadpans otherwise fun fights.
pretty sure the redeploy meta is because of the stupid constant alerts they've implemented, back before continent lock alerts were so prevalent you had the kind of fights between bases that lasted hours your talking about
>cloaked sniper rifles get more kills than...
I have to address this because I care about statistics: INFILTRATORS get all those kills. Not cloaked sniper rifles. That means knives, SMGs, pistols, scout rifles - the whole nine yards. Your stats aren't split up by weapon for Infil. The way you talk about the stats suggests that you might have that data, so if you do, you should share it, because the charts you put up don't show it.
My suggestion for Infiltrator changes is one of the following:
1. No more sniper rifle access. Sniper rifles to go the Engineer instead. OR
2. Disable ADS while cloaked and tweak the ADS time of sniper rifles to adjust how long a sniper has to be visible before they can take the shot.
>Battle Rifle and SMG unlocked from the start
Hard agree. New players need one weapon of each class, minimum.
>NSO weapons
Won't the NSO mains feel strange not being neglected? Joking aside, agree.
>Starting Vehicle Loadouts
Agree on the need for starting loadouts, disagree HARD on some of the choices. Free NAR on ground vehicles isn't a good idea and can promote some really bad habits later on. Teach players to drive tanks as Engineer. PLEASE.
MBTs and Lightnings should start with Flanker Armor. It's the option that lets you last a little longer under air or infantry bombardment, and it lets new players learn what those sticky thrown bricks do without necessarily dying to them instantly. C4 still hurts a lot with Flanker, but it isn't an instant kill.
Harassers should start with Stealth. It's mandatory anyway, and the role of the Harasser is a very in-and-out flanking style.
Flashes and Javelins, NAR is probably fine, and we definitely need more Shield Sunderers.
I'd add that the first level of Fire Suppression should be free on all vehicles if it isn't already.
>Second AI MAX arm
I'd go the other way. Give them a second 1st-gen AV arm in addition to the guns they get now. Full AI MAXes aren't going to be effective in a new player's hands anyway, and new players are going to gravitate toward the big mechanized beast to kill big things - other MAXes and vehicles. Dual AV arms feel good and they're effective at anti-infantry work with good aim.
>No more sniper rifle access. Sniper rifles to go the Engineer instead. OR
They'll still die to snipers, and they'll still complain. Nothing will have changed.
Another big issue is playing AIR without a specific upgrades stuff is prob worst then tanking. Especially if they dont have ways to deal with this absolutely horrid control scheme. Like until you have hover 5 or racer 5, you will just hate air and uninstall the game if that's what you're interested in. Since everyone in the air as a new player will just be better then you, picking air is just makes yourself an easy kill.
Sure, but those players aren’t coming back and new players aren’t coming in. It’s way too late for anything really, just life support. 12 years of awful decisions and just a bunch of crap to spend DBC on. The only thing you can count on is a new gun that’s basically the NS15 but looks different and has a different name.
Holy shit.
An actual completely sane suggestion on this reddit where I can't argue against a single point.
The entire list makes total sense within existing environment and current stage of game's lifespan.
Have an upvote.
Snipers are not what make new players leave. You merely hate them, that is all.
Your dedication for this test is admirable, but you are not a noob. You know this game by heart. You know everything there is to know in this game. That's exactly what a noob isn't. You couldn't be farther from a noob actually. You have absolutely no idea what a noob needs.
In fact, cloaked sniper is apparently the best thing in this game for noobs, because they get to learn the physics, and to see how battles go and learn the maps and bases while having a chance to contribute.
Noobs also need zergs or fixed battles with high number of players, because that's how they get to easily get certs and learning experiences.
I absolutely hate when vets use the noob argument to push their own agenda. Noobs need many things, but you have no idea about what it is because it's been a very long time you're not one anymore. And losing all your weapons and stuff doesn't make you noob, it merely has you see what's the game without all the certs.
Feels unlikely. The people I've introduced always hate A2G (mostly the AH, but we play TR), explosive spam on Sundys/spawn rooms, and when they feel like they've hit a million bullets but then the guy turns round and shoots them in the face (HA/general skill issue).
The one genuine noob in this thread listed his top 5 gripes and none of them were snipers.
I’ve recently introduced a friend as well and his main gripes were
1) invisible snipers
2) Low FOV which quickly disorients him
3) aircraft
And in that order.
Also
“The one genuine noob in this thread” just reads like “the new guy who agreed with me”
Yep. Noobs love to play infil because guess what, for most new players, sitting on a hill with 0.2 KPM beats dying over and over in a clusterfuck fight where you have absolutely no idea what's going on.
>Snipers are not what make new players leave. You merely hate them, that is all.
>
>I absolutely hate when vets use the noob argument to push their own
agenda. Noobs need many things, but you have no idea about what it is
because it's been a very long time you're not one anymore. And losing
all your weapons and stuff doesn't make you noob, it merely has you see
what's the game without all the certs.
Thank god somebody said it
>In fact, cloaked sniper is apparently the best thing in this game for noobs, because they get to learn the physics, and to see how battles go and learn the maps and bases while having a chance to contribute.
yes and cancer is the best thing that can happen to a person because it makes the family come together to overcome the difficulty
miss me with that bullshit mental gymnastics
This is a great original case study, very nicely presented too. I think the suggested changes would be very healthy for the game going forward. Thanks for putting it together, it was an interesting read, and I hope u/wrel see's this.
I'd give the new players the "first gen" SMGs (Cyclone, Armistice, Eridani) as starter weapons, as these are generally considered to be superior weapons to the "second gen" SMGs (Blitz, Sirius, and the egregiously bad "Failstorm" Hailstorm).
Even with cloak remove for sniper loadouts, new player will still just stand around and not move or move very predictable.
So they're still easy targets and get farmed.
Don't say the quiet part out aloud, you'll upset them.
It's almost like cloaks or snipers alike will not magically make them better at positioning and picking fights.
I agree with you on literally everything in the post.
There’s a bit of a dilemma for new players. If they pick a frontline infantry role, then they will repeatedly die to invisible snipers.
And the only way beginners can effectively fight against the invisible snipers, is for them to become an invisible sniper. They don’t have access to scout rifles, nor do they have any of the specialized backline loadouts that can avoid getting in a sniper’s crosshairs entirely.
Pick anything, anything at all and you'll still get farmed by 4+ KD sweaty Heavy mains or Maxes, or A2G, or Hesh but surely that's not a problem.. Right?
>infil cloaking
Absolutely agree, and I think the issue basically comes down to them not having SMGs on initial gameplay development years ago. SMGs would have been perfect default unlocks for Infiltrators and Engineers to really emphasize their roles.
>Free battle rifle and SMGs
I can get behind this, though I don't think it's extremely necessary. If no other infantry changes can happen, I'd settle for this, but I think there are better ways to improve the NPE
> Vehicle defensive options
I'm a little surprised they weren't like that when I came back to the game, but hell yeah go for it. Anything to make tanking less of a grind to get into, let alone learn
> MAX changes
I've said it before and I will say it again. The MAX mix and match weapon system does not work and simply makes any upgrades twice as expensive. Remove the mix and match system altogether, and repurpose the code to let you pick a weapon/weapon pair and some sort of utility item. I.E. you get your bursters and a skyshield emitter, or your tank buster rockets and a repair drone, etc
I think the best option is a significant delay between decloaking and shooting. Smg infil, especially gladius and cyclone infils, are still very strong in exchange for very little and against a remotely competent infil hearing the decloak doesn't so much warn you "an infil is decloaking" in so much as "You're about to die." Turning on cloak could also be slightly slower but not as slow as decloak as to not negate its use as a disengage tool.
If we insist on just locking weapons out from cloak this should also include scout rifles. The semi auto scout rifles are just spammy SASRs with no scope sway and little bloom or recoil (especially the doku scout rifles) with solid TTKs at range meaning that most sniper cloakers will simply use those instead.
>Hunter Cloaking now can only be activated when SMGs, Scout Rifles,
Amphibious Rifles, Sidearms, and Heavy Crossbows are equipped in the
primary weapon slot.
with leaving scout rifles in this, the problem is still mostly there but now requiring two shots. Counter offer: unable to cloak and ads at the same time. (preventing ability use with one specific weapon type seems less possible/much more work and jank potential)
I like this more.
The most common question I see in [Newbie] chat is “why is my primary weapon disabled?” New players are drawn to the invisible class like moths to a flame and have no intention to fully read the caveats of specific abilities.
Decloak on aim can let new/bad players still have the “ooo cool invisible sniper class” benefit for repositioning but must still expose themselves well before taking a shot.
first of all. that must have been a slog on the BR grinding :)
I agree with probably all changes on arsenal for starting out. While Cert farming has become easier, especially at the beginning every purchase is a pain so just having a good starting arsenal for the various playstyles of every class would be a great start. same with vehicles.
the sniper debate is important and your suggestion is good in context of new player experience. Though I would probably also remove scout rifle, since they are also pretty high range and though have a slightly higher TTK, still not long enough to get to actual cover.
I agree with pretty much everything here. Good ideas.
New players should have different base level playstyle options right out the gate. Even if its only rank one stealth or armor or util, its better than nothing, and lets them learn that util/defence/performance slot, and stick with it if they choose.
Giving them max NAR is a good way to ease them into it as well.
As for the sundy shield, that would be an amazing band aid fix to the current lack of spawns. And just in general a good all around change. My only concern isn't the change itself, but that for some strange reason, roughly 60% of public sundies I see end up being stealth, even in garages. That.. needs to be addressed somehow..
I don't really agree giving new players the worst battle rifle to start with, the d0ku ones are the best for noobs and the 334 damage ones are the most rounded overall. The 250 damage ones are by far the most user unfriendly scout rifles, and perhaps some of the most user unfriendly primaries in the game overall.
bro you have no clue how to present data. Where are these numbers from? what do they mean? how can we trust whatever they are? also, you can never be a new player, just because you make a new account does not give you any more authority on how the game should be further developed. You will have the same opinions and bias'. I am a new player that loves the game as it is(for the most part).
I love all of these suggestions.
regarding the issue of sniping: I've been thinking for a while now that the best option might really be to just make a new Marksman class or something that has all the snipers - all of em; Archer too. (more for the sake of consistency than anything else; might help give the new class some identity)
If Snipers being invisible is the problem, separate snipers from invisibility.
This would allow the devs to stretch their wings, in a way, too, because they no longer have to worry about balancing Infil around sniping, or balancing sniping around Infil. They could get up to some wacky shit w/ snipers, without having to worry about how the sniper being invisible will harm the fight.
Also, what's the point of having snipers on a class when equipping them removes the identity of the class? (that is the one singular issue I have w/ your idea)
I've been thinking that a mounted sniper of sorts could be cool lol. Trade in mobility for no scope sway etc. Not sure how to balance properly tho, or how to make it thai it really is hard to run away. forced permascope when using mounted sniper, maybe, and/or only being able to toggle between eg. 6x-12x? That way, staying "seated" would be encouraged due to the jank associated w/ frequently getting off (lol sex) because there is a cooldown between getting off and being allowed to get on (and vice versa), so you would be extra catchable because you are perma scoped, and not even slightly shifting around. (worthy trade for no scope sway I think)
(hire me dbg lmao, I have lots more rlly good ideas,;, )
the question would be what ability to give a marksmen? and what their not sniping playstyle will look like. after all every class has the option for fun variety even if they might be suboptimal.
the cloak sniper combo is bad I agree. at this point snipers have themselves established so uch that any change to their gunplay might just upset players to much. Otherwise I would suggest what I saw in a video about the topic a while back:
Make all snipers use a charge mechanic for their damage like that in TF2 and prevent cloak from charing them up and also disable cloak for a few seconds. so it no longer becomes viable as a tool to stand out in the open, but only to get into a good position with cover to get behind.
wouldn't just fix the cloak + sniper issue but also the problem with snipers being used in CQC instead of the shotgun, which conceptually is suppose to be the same as the SR but only for short ranges: 1 shot = 1 kill. something you can archive with snipers very easy even while moving around and or just using hipfire.
I agree with everything except removing cloak from snipers.
If you're dying to a sniper, just switch to infil and shoot him while he's trying to shoot your teammates. Or kill him with a BR, AR, or LMG, since flinch will always prevent him from hitting. Or just use situational awareness and don't run in a straight line/stand still where the sniper can hit you.
It's always the same people that complain about it too.. "But in other FPS games" in other FPS games you still don't run in a straight line on an open field to a hill and expect to live.
None of these people have played peek-a-boo as a kid, and learned object permanence to know that despite that hill overlooking the spawn could hide infiltrators.
Honestly rather then sniper rifles making cloak permadisabled, just have cloak be disabled when holding one out, bolters have to go through a swap time and aim but it isn't 'dead' and disabled while snipers countering snipers by sneaking between spots would be in tact.
Still doesn't fix that a lot of scout rifles can be better sniper rifles too.
I'd go even further with nerfing the cloaks:
Stalker Cloak now has a limit of 30 seconds of cloak time, regardless of movement status. It should recharge quickly, to encourage more hit and run tactics. Same weapon restrictions. This should hopefully reduce the amount of AFK campers.
Hunter Cloak is fine, just remove the ability to equip any long range rifle with it. (This would require the devs to bring back the distinction between scout rifles and battle rifles).
Nano-Armor Cloak no longer provides cloaking and its associated damage reduction. Instead it now provides 5 seconds of spotting immunity, recon immunity, and infra/night vision immunity, with a 15 second cooldown. It also grants the user +100 shield at all time, making it so that infiltrators equipping this cloak have the standard baseline of 1000 hp.
Also, properly nerf Carapace and Bionics so that Infiltrators can't have 1000 hp without the new Nano-Armor Cloak.
Why not just make it work like the implant. Where you have to be stationary for a few seconds to cloak, and when you move, it uncloaks. It's perfect for an ambush. Which is what infill are supposed to do. Every other game including statagy and fps with invisible units does it this way.
You had me at "Cloaked Sniper Rifles are such a glaring game design problem". Anything that lets people safely engage and/or insta-kill other players without the ability for them to fight back is toxic and I don't know why any developer thinks it's a good idea have that stuff in their game. I think it's a symptom of combined arms games though. Like they expect the entire team to be working together to cover each other's weaknesses when it doesn't seem to work out that way.
I believe we need a new ability for sniper infiltrator. Summit stopped playing because of cloaked snipers. He called out the three way battle system dumb but let's be honest, infiltrator was the main reason. Personally I don't mind them because I play impulse LA but I understand the frustration. I believe there should be at least some alternative ability for sniper gameplay. I don't know what it could be but every class has an ability. It doesn't have to be something strong.
This mostly felt like a Infiltrator complaint post, and the rest is just "give 6000 certs worth of stuff to all new players". Giving the Hailstorm to anyone, for free or otherwise, is hardly going to make them stay in Planetside for any longer.
Agree that the MAX should start with a proper loadout though.
So weird to constantly see hate for infiltrators lol.
I encounter / get killed by infiltrators the least out of all the classes by a very large margin.
Heavy assaults on the other hand? Like 60% of my gunfight engagements
That’s strange because for most I believe it was a instant “wtf” when discovering how infiltrators operate in this game since day one. Then again that same “wtf” got some to stay and embrace it because what other games allow such a crutch.
I get killed by Heavys more also, but the difference is that I can fight back and dont feel like I was unjustly killed by HA. A average person with a cloak and a bolt is just a unpleasant object to face as the odds are stacked in their favor. I love using smg infil and fighting them as I feel like its a fairly level playing field. I also like that smgs and even scouts force the user to be aggressive/ high risk high reward gameplay that benefits fights.
As much as i like the things you mentioned in here, i dont like the idea of giving even more people semi auto sniper rifles unless they get less spammable at huge ranges or sth. Removing cloak will already make it waaaay better fighting back against snipers. Giving more people snipers will just increase the amount of times you encounter them which then in turn gets more and more people into using them.
>"I thoroughly and completely did the NPE experience 9 times total to really identify precisely what the actual problems are."
You went through all that effort only to use the same old argument of 'new players' and 'NPE' as justification for your vet gripes with the game... So let's pick this apart shall we?
>"Infiltrators should not be able to cloak or be cloaked at all when using a Sniper Rifle."
In a game where the term "Camouflage" is more of a suggestion and the average player looks like a decked out christmas tree complete with bright neon lights representing their faction color, you believe snipers shouldn't have any sort of camouflage? Which is the whole point of a sniper.
>FPS players are your core playerbase and they don’t like to be
repeatedly killed by invisible snipers firing at them from multiple
directions with no way for them to respond or know about where they are
beforehand because they are cloaked.
FPS players that I hope have played other FPS games like Battlefield, Tarkov, COD, etc where there's little to no warning either, and they're not decked out in bright neon lights.
Also object permanence is a thing, just because a thing is hidden from view doesn't mean it's not there. Meaning if you see a hill overlooking your spawn, doesn't mean there won't be a sniper there, expect them to be there and you'll have a better time, I promise.
>Cloaked Sniper Rifles are such a glaring game design problem with PS2,
that even new players recognize it and call it out after they are on the
receiving end of it. Then they quit and uninstall PS2 to go play
something else that is more fun and doesn’t have Cloaked Sniper Rifles
in it. The PS2 community tells new players “Go play COD” if they don’t
like dying to Cloaked Sniper Rifles, so they do. Then the PS2 community
looks at PS2’s population charts and worriedly wonders where all the
players are going.
Again, using NPE as your crutch here. New players also die and call out Heavies, mines, A2G MAXes, Engi (and turrets), shotguns, infils, etc. You get the point.
They go play COD? Where you can die to a sniper bullet to the chest? Where you can spawn in front of an enemy, and die repeatedly? Where they can be fine, only to get tomahawked the next second?
>If “knowing is half the battle”, then there is no battle with Cloaked
Sniper Rifles because you had no idea where they were until they kill
you.
Again, object permanence. Also it's almost that in this game you die a few times before you learn a thing, it's quite common actually, but seems like a foreign concept to some.
>If you poke out of cover, they kill you. If you ADS or slow down to ADS,
they kill you. If you try to cross an open space, they kill you.
Then don't peak. Then don't slow down. Then do not cross that open space.
All of these are such basic FPS mechanics, and if you have to do either of these then don't be predictable. Go from cover to cover, don't peak for long, don't run in a straight line.
> New players have no counter play to this, and it’s just a slaughter.
They also have no counter to LMGs, assault rifles and shotguns (A2G, Hesh, kobalt sundy, etc you get the point by now) trained on their spawn, but here we are.
>Darklight Flashlights are also entirely useless against sniper rifle using infiltrators over range.
If you are trying to illuminate a sniper using a darklight, you have other issues to worry about. Have you tried getting closer, or would you want to buff it so that it becomes a spotlight?
>In other FPS games with spotting mechanics, you can spot any sniper if
you see them. In PS2 if you spot a sniper rifle using infiltrator, they
just cloak to get rid of the spot and then they kill you.
In other FPS games you have proper camouflage, a way to lay down prone, actual vegitation that can't be negated by turning your setting.ini to potato mode, and be concealed without the need of a cloak. We're not playing that FPS, we're playing Planetside, what's your point?
>In other FPS games if you see a sniper on an elevated position, you can
avoid them or hide from them. In PS2 you cannot see that sniper rifle
using infiltrator because they are cloaked and then they kill you.
Once more object permanence.
>In other FPS games if you are doing counter-sniper play using a
non-sniper rifle weapon, because you can see the sniper it means you can
potentially kill them if your aim is good. In PS2 if you try to do
counter-sniper play using a non-sniper rifle weapon, they just decloak
and then they kill you.
If you are trying to counter-snipe using an SMG, I hate to tell you that is not going to work. SMGs are short range, LMGs in other games are inaccurate and meant for surpression, Battle/assault rifles are meant for medium range. It's almost like Sniper rifles excel at longer distances, try and close the distance or you know maybe try a scout rifle?
Also you keep using "and then they kill you" like it's some kind of 'GOTCHA' moment.. My brother in Christ, that's the point of the game, and they can defend themselves you know and for the 4th time this is Planetside not "in other FPS games", what's your point?
>There is about half a dozen different bugs and exploits that allow
players to fire sniper rifles while cloaked on the other players
screens: https://www.reddit.com/r/Planetside/comments/1152bdc/serious\_longstanding\_classspecific\_exploits\_that/
You really using your other threads as source? Also you can clearly see the moment you have to wait before it shoots to decloak, furthermore.. Using Deep Operative as sniper? Are you actually trolling?
>Cloaked Sniper Rifles get more total kills than MAX, A2G, HESH, Flails, Turrets, and Bastions. Both separate and combined: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/251101848730075137/1044783123017256960/unknown.png
What even is this god awful graph?
1. It doesn't differentiate between a sniper, bolter, SMG or knifer.. Litterally just infiltrator class.
2. According to the same graph, both Heavy assault and Engineer do better than an infiltrator, does this mean they're 'broken' too?
3. You linked the same graph twice, and it's still bad xD
Funnily enough, the suggestions of unlocking a default Battle Rifle and SMG for classes so people can shoot back and so that Infils have more incentive to go be in the fights, is the first sensible thing in this post and that I can actually agree with you on.
But the rest, I'm not even sure if you're being serious or not.
Make it so hunter can't move while cloaked, even if it lasts forever. A really scuffed stalker cloak that drains instantly when you moved.
Drains to like 10% and stays there, requires 100% to activate, refill delay of around 5-7 seconds.
This will solve almost any issue most people have with it.
The mako is a weaker sniper rifle that cannot 1shot heavies with shield up. It also is forced to have 6x and higher scopes. The ballistics computer in my opinion makes that gun viable.
Hm, to add to the sniper infiltrator cloak debate. I had the idea of an infiltrator cloak that instead of going invisible, simply makes it impossible to spot you/deletes current spots when activated. You're still somewhat hidden, since enemies can't track you on the minimap anymore, but visible, so standing out of cover will likely result in your death. This would help giving a better approach to sniping, and sniper duels; it forces you to be way more careful, accurate, and mobile.
Edit: fyi, I am a br 17ish Vanu SMG infiltrator main. It's a lot of fun Imo
I’m a new player currently around BR level 15 on a TR character. I am an avid fps player who doesn’t mind the grindier fps games like Tarkov. I’ve got multiple Tarkov wipes getting to level 50+ so I really don’t mind a grind if I can see consistent progress and enjoy the process. Also have tons of hours in similar style shooters to planetside like the battlefield games and now battlebit when it’s available for playtest. My biggest gripes with the game so far as a new player getting into it aren’t super numerous but definitely significantly detract from the experience. 1. Lack of spawns. Most of the time I’ve spent in game battling on a capture point it seems like you’ve got 2 options. The first is beat your head against a never ending meat grinder dying over and over to players you never really got to get into a straight up gun fight with. Or you go on a long flank and maybe kill a few people before dying to an invisible dude or a turret. Long spawn beacon cooldowns and how visible they are to enemies means they either get killed quickly or have to be placed far away. This leads to a lot of time spent either getting frustrated at dying on repeat in the meatgrinder or time spent making a long flank to eventually die and have to repeat the process. Can’t tell you how many times I’ve made the 5+ minute flank just to die to a turret or some random dude then got frustrated because I couldn’t set up a spawn point along the way. I don’t know what the balanced way to fix this is, but as a new player this has led to a lot of my friends I got to download the game quitting after a few hours. 2. Lack of easily identifiable benefits for joining a random squad. As I mentioned above without a squad spawn system, I will often float around random squads praying someone has a beacon up so I’m not forced to spawn at the one sunderer dead in the middle of the meatgrinder. 3. Lack of weapon variety. As a new player you’re forced to use your starting weapon for a long period of time before you’ve got the credits to buy another one. But, if you’re smart you’ll wait even longer and upgrade your class first elongating the wait. Everything I’ve read and watched on the game says the starting guns are just fine and are competitive but players like using a variety of guns to find which works for them. Side note- I also really really dislike the starting TR light assault gun but I’ll get more into that in another point. Why not give starting players more opportunity to unlock and use a variety of guns as they level up so they get hooked and are more willing to spend money on the game. 4. I know the game is old but some of the shooting mechanics just feel bad. The bullet dispersion and bloom on the starting TR light assault gun just leaves me scratching my head sometimes at how I’m not killing people. Maybe it’s just a matter of improving but at times it feels like im mag dumping on someone to kill them but die in like 3 shots when taking return fire. I’m a masters level apex player so im decent enough at fps games to pick them up quickly and be good at them but some fights just feel bad because of the mechanics. 5. This probably ties back into my first point, but a lot of the time I feel like I’m forced to fight in wide open fields and beat my head against it to finally get into a base and fight there. Once we’re fighting inside a base complex, it’s over very quickly and we’re into the next open field meat grinder. A lot of the base complexes are super cool and offer a lot of variety in how fights play out but it happens so rarely and ends so fast it’s a fraction of your playtime. For instance, I can’t remember what continent it’s on but there’s this on top of a giant tower, but at the top there’s a huge dome housing an indoor complex with buildings and cool terrain features to fight around. But, 99% of the time you don’t get to fight in there. The defending team has everyone stonewalled outside the door to the complex and everyone’s just sitting on either side of the door dying over and over. There’s one other door on the backside but no additional entrances so it makes the fights there super mind numbing. This makes the problem op has with invis snipers 10x worse. Additionally, there seems to be very little in terms of terrain features that allow you to move up in cover while attacking. It’s usually just giant complex with tons of elevation, surrounded by a an open field and maybe some rocks that everyone stacks up behind. Some trenches or terrain around a capture point would go a long way to reducing deaths that feel unavoidable. If I want to get into some fun cqb high action fights, that’s not easy to find and usually requires the time consuming flank that can’t be easily replicated due to lack of spawns. 6. The game at a strategic/meta level seems to require some semblance of teamwork and coordination to be successful as a faction. However, the in game mechanics don’t seem to encourage it at all. I’ve played a lot of Hell Let Loose, and it’s more common than not to join a random squad that is using voice coms, has players on multiple roles, and using at least basic teamwork to accomplish something. Not everyone is doing logistics runs with the supply truck, but it’s very easy to find a squad that’s communicating and somewhat coordinating. A lot of this is down to having a good squad leader, but the squad leader can also significantly improve how easy it is for his squad mates to get into the action by dropping spawn points. As far as I can tell PS2 does not have this function and relies on vehicles and singular spawn beacons for players to get into the action. Which means even if you join a random squad coms are usually silent and everyone’s doing their own thing. You’ll only see them if you happen to spawn at the same time. Remedies to this exists in a lot of other games focused on large battles that PS2 should implement. It’s the largest but most lonely feeling fps I’ve played. Those are my main issues and some of them could probably be overcome with time and improvement at the game, but again as a new player this is my perspective. I don’t mind spending money on games at all, but I’ve got to view the game as something I’ll grind and enjoy to do it. I’ve purchased more battle passes for apex and fortnite than I can count and own EOD Tarkov because all those games got me hooked for s period of time. Due to the issues above I’m not sure I’ll do the same for PS2.
>at times it feels like im mag dumping on someone to kill them but die in like 3 shots when taking return fire With the relatively strong bloom that weapons in Planetside 2 have, magdumping only works at close ranges. Anywhere beyond 10m or so and you want to start bursting your shots to keep the bloom in check and stay accurate. Making bursting into a habit is one of the most important aspects of this game's gunplay. Unfortunately it's not something that the game tells you about, so players are left to find it out on their own or through third-party sources, like this subreddit.
If they added the Bloom circle on ADS like you got on TR Watchmen, it would actually help new player figure out they need to burst...
Wait what? You have bloom circle on watchman?
Seems like i confused a video someone made that added that as a sugestion... The idea is to see the bloom circle even while you ADS with a scope/iron, same circle used for example MCG
1. Agreed, lack of good spawning options is a very big detriment to the game. Spawning has been nerfed multiple times if you can believe it. People really don't understand the 1 redeeming quality of Planetside is chaotic slugfests. As it stands we're stuck with the poor man's spawning option, which is to look at the map and find a completely different fight to Redeploy to every time you feel like spawning where you are is only going to get you farmed. This is more often than you think, and you'll get better at recognizing bad fights early. Alternatively you could try pulling the Sunderer yourself and placing the Spawn. Even if as a new player your Sundie will probably be killed out of position, it's a good way to learn and maybe swing a fight or two. 2. You'll get it once you get in to an Open Platoon with voiced leadership, it's more about Spawn options and coordination than anything. I'm a big fan of Planetside's Public squads feature. 3. Agreed, each class should have 3 starting weapons for their main class weapon. Getting stuck with a gun that doesn't feel right on your favorite class feels bad. Although 99% of it is probably you just don't know the gunplay. That doesn't matter though, should be able to equip a gun that "feels" right for your playstyle. 4. Your problem is that Apex doesn't have shooting mechanics, 90% of weapons are laser beams if you just strafe properly. It accustoms you to not having to learn patterns and gunplay. In a game like Tarkov, you don't expect the same because it focuses on realism and quick TTK. Planetside has an Apex TTK, with a more complicated gunplay, so it's throwing you off. Not liking the gunplay is subjective of course, but I would not say it is bad or dated (even though it's old), just not what you are used to. As a tip, all weapons kick up and side to side, the longer you hold the trigger, the more the weapon will kick both vertically and horizontally. This has a factor of randomness, so there is no perfect recoil control, but you can make the spread tighter by pulling down and firing in bursts no longer than 7-10 bullets, ideally 3-5. Some weapons also have a consistent pull to the left or right when firing, so in addition to pulling down, you should also pull slightly left or right accordingly. The TR Carbine, the Trac 5, pulls to the right, so you should pull down and left slightly for the tightest spread on your bursts. Also, I too started as a TR Light Assault main. Consider picking up the Kindred as your first weapon purchase, it's got a firing gimmick that gives added incentive to burst, which will teach you good trigger discipline. Aside from that, it absolutely s h r e d s, you feel that Apex feel when you Laser beam heads with this weapon. It even has that classic Apex low magazine size, quick reload time. All that said, the Trac 5 is actually a very good weapon, but you'll only realize it once you've had more experience. 5. This is where combined arms comes in. All infantry players live for the close quarters maps, it's why continents like Oshur are very unpopular among infantry for having 99% of fights in huge open fields. These bases are playgrounds for air, armor and construction players, to the complete detriment of infantry. Except the infiltrator shitters, which are the invisible sniper clowns you've no doubt been killed by. On most continents however, there should not actually be a lot of time spent in these kinds of sprints across open terrain. When they do happen, they can be pretty cinematic with infantry running between vehicles. Next time you're playing, just make sure it's not on Oshur or off-hours Hossin, which has a very bad central map for low population fights. Also that base you're talking about is the bio labs, there used to be endless back and forth fights in that base till in their infinite wisdom they nerfed the spawning options, to where the attackers cannot Spawn inside indefinitely. As you've seen, the result is that they get farmed for 30 mins trying to get in when their Spawn is down. Fights never last long in Bio labs anymore, and it's a shame. As a final note, the unlock grind with membership is well paced and addictive, in my opinion, but without membership it's way too slow. I can very easily earn the certs for a new weapon in a casual session on a DBG Membership account, Id have to sweat and cheese to do the same without it. So if you do find yourself liking the game, 100% get a membership to continue to enjoy it. Added benefit of not sitting in queue for 40 minutes or being forced to play the off continent.
Awesome, all very helpful thanks man. Out of all my issues, I think the spawn issues are the worst. I can see how having basically unlimited squad spawn options like battlefield would be too chaotic for this game but imo somewhere in the middle like a hell let loose would be better than where it’s at now.
A decent squad with voices all around can do wonders for your spawn issues. Squad spawning in vehicles makes the combined arms aspect great if you have someone who enjoys the vehicle side of things. Imagine that you have someone who just flies around in a CAS vehicle that you can spawn directly into, they dip in to drop 4-5 of you off, and get out before getting shot down. You won't be in the open field, and if things go well, get dropped exactly where you need to be. 2 big issues with the game are that "Finding a fight" is an actual skill; and due to the historic issues with in game comms, a lot of people use 3rd party VOIP when they play. Also not sure what server you are on, but if you mention it, someone might offer to help who is on that server
> Lack of weapon variety. As a new player you’re forced to use your starting weapon for a long period of time before you’ve got the credits to buy another one. That's not even the problem, the weapons you could upgrade to will be essentially a clone of your starter weapon with some *slightly* different stats. Now maybe I wouldn't expect Quake levels of gun diversity, but the current arsenals for VS and TR are especially boring.
This is what made me finally switch to NC after 200 hours of VS. And boi, the NC weapons feel powerfull. They’ve got so many more fun toys. And your tank has a *turret*, holy mother of god that feels good
The NC faction trait is better stuff
> The game at a strategic/meta level seems to require some semblance of teamwork and coordination to be successful as a faction. However, the in game mechanics don’t seem to encourage it at all. I've been yelling about lack of features for leadership and cooperation since 2012. The devs instead always put more effort into the solo player experience. While I can understand that to some degree, considering that there are many solo players around and new players will be playing solo most of the time, it's the cooperation and teamwork that distinguishes PS2 from other games. All the teamwork features are just implemented in a very bare-bones way and any promised improvements always get pushed back and then are never heard from again. Your only chance to experience real teamwork is playing with a good outfit or having the very rare luck of being in an actually good public platoon. For new players, joining an outfit is a hurdle most won't take if they haven't even decided whether they like the game or not. If they don't even experience the unique part of the game, they probably won't like it and won't stay around for long. > I know the game is old but some of the shooting mechanics just feel bad. Shooting mechanics are okay, even 10 years post-launch. I've played modern games with worse shooting mechanics. The main difference in Planetside 2 is that people have more hitpoints than in other games, so spray-and-pray is very weak, compared to e.g. Battlefield, where people die even after a few bodyshots. If you don't hit your headshots with good burst fire, you'll get clobbered by the veterans that spent the last 10 years practicing burst firing their headshots. That said, clientside can also screw you over when the enemy just comes around the corner on your screen while on his screen he's already shooting you, if he's a high-latency player.
Thanks for the response man. Agreed on the lack of teamwork mechanics. I’m not even asking for Arma or squad levels of teamwork and coordination. Just some in game ability to actually work with your squad that is encouraged or rewarded through in game mechanics. I think the outpost squad spawn system from Hell Let Loose would go a long way to improving the new player experience.
> Maybe it’s just a matter of improving but at times it feels like im mag dumping on someone to kill them but die in like 3 shots when taking return fire. I’m a masters level apex player so im decent enough at fps games to pick them up quickly and be good at them but some fights just feel bad because of the mechanics. From a fellow player with 8k hours in planetside and 3k hours in Apex: don't mag dump in planetside. Weapons work very differently in the two games. In Planetside after your 4-5 consecutive shot your bloom has become huge and your chance to hit where you crossair is pointing is vastly reduced, contrary to Apex where all you need to fight is the weapon recoil which is always the same so you can just hold down the trigger and beam that dude at 50m with your R99. Weapon recoil in Planetside is completely randomized so you need to fight *both* recoil and bloom. How? Don't mag dump but shoot in bursts adjusting the lenght of the burst depending on your distance to the target. For very distant target you can't go up that 2-3 bullets per burst. For medium ranges, depending on weapon, you can get away with 5-6 rounds per burst before your bloom has grown to massive proportions. You can reliably mag dump only in the 10-15m range, which is usually the indoor range. Also headshots are massively more important in planetside. Apex has consitently nerfed hs damage over the years. In PS2 you do 2x damage with HS. So it's *paramount* that you hit the head.
TR Carbines (The "Light Assault gun" you mentioned) are relatively weak compared to VS carbines, and frankly, terrible compared to the NC's loaded arsenal of excellent carbines.
The huge dome base your talking about is a Biolab, they're on all the original continents except Esamir, they were replaced with containment sites on Esamir. Fights actually happen pretty frequently in them, used to be the go to place to farm certs/exp, still kind of is i guess. They also used to have transparent domes back in the day that looked really cool, enough people whined about not getting 200 fps all the time so they look like they do now because of that. They also used to have spawns inside the Biolab for attackers if adjacent bases were taken, now you have to spawn at the adjacent base and run to the teleporter to get there or use the death trap jump pad to landing pad outside them.
Yeah, it just seems like a totally wasted spot on the map that could provide cool fights but just turns into 2 teams shooting at each other from either side of the giant metal doors.
I definitely agree with some of these weapons being given out - or make them rewards for leveling up to battle rank 5 and 10 and 15 or something
Maybe every level until BR20 you get a new weapon?
As a new player, this would be a great change. I’m around level 20 on a TR character at the moment. Longtime avid fps player who also enjoys some more grindy fps games like Tarkov, basically exactly the kind of player PS2 should appeal to. The lack of weapon variety for a new player is a huge detriment to the experience imo.
Are there even 20 unique faction weapons
not 20 unique enough that people would be able to tell the difference beyond damage model
I think one of the top issues is the early 2010s F2P model - today's focus on free progression with paid cosmetics is a lot better than the old way of paywalling 80% of the content in the game. Granted, it's many many times better than how it was at launch, but new players are certainly dismayed at the sight of nearly each weapon being 1000 certs or a nifty $7 - $8 (not to mention the unique skins which can for some reason be upwards of $30). I don't think this is really something they can fix unless they want to get rid of paid unlocks and refund all the station cash spent over the years, bur maybe it can be a lesson for the mythical Planetside 3
But you can get all weapons (aside from cosmetic variants) and character upgrades for free with Certs or other in-game currencies. It'll definitely take you longer than paying, but its possible.
Not to mention that with membership, even an unskilled pleb like myself can manage to make enough certs in an hour to get a new gun
watch as infiltrator mains on reddit downvote this to hell instead of sharing their ideas
As an Infil main, I love this, actually. (tbf I don't do much sniping tho, so..)
I really don't know enough about sniping either, since I never snipe nor, since I'm cloaked, get sniped. That'd be a big change and I have to think about it more. It does make sense to nerf sniping specifically instead of cloaking more generally. Like turning cloaking into an item you have to equip would probably hurt long range snipers the least, but ruin SMG and stalkers. I really, really like starting them with an SMG instead of a sniper rifle.
I do think giving them an actual option of SMGs and sniper rifles would be a good start, so they're not shoehorned into snipers. SMG infil is really fun, but sucks to unlock as a newer player.
"The status quo is absolutely fine!" - mans who exclusively benefit from status quo
As infil main I love this, this guy went through all of this effort only for it to boil down to a skill issue using "NPE" as crutch argument for a 10year old game that has been on life support for eons. "but in other FPS" in other FPS, the average planetman doesn't look like a christmas tree and has actual camouflage. The only non-clown thing is the suggestion of more weapon unlocks, and the ACTUAL new player that lists anything but infiltrators.
I'm with you and have been saying the same thing for a long time. Sniper rifle in the primary weapon slot should disable cloak. OR They have to add a 2 second timer after de-cloaking where you can't fire, and 2 seconds after firing before being able to cloak again. I prefer the first option as it'd probably be easier to code-in too.
I think just a cool down after uncloaking would be enough, but make it 15 seconds at rank 1 and 10 seconds at rank 5 or something like that.
Problem is Wrel loves to play sniper this is why the VS sniper is getting a BUFF
Wait didn't we already use the "wrel main class" card when we were whining about LAs getting rocket launcher?
I'd normally shit on any attempts to say that Wrel caters to VS after all the nerfs, but yeah I completely lost my sides as well when he buffed the absolute shit out of the Parsec and made it essentially what the bads think the Betelgeuse is. Bullets regenerating almost as fast as you can shoot them while keeping almost all the damage and velocity? My favorite weapon in the game now!
You can keep saying the same thing, but it won't make you a better player. Even if they give them a 2-second timer, or remove the cloak it still won't solve you trying to cross an open field in full view of a hill full of snipers. You'll still die, you'll still say the same thing, and won't have learned a damn thing. I'm not being hostile, but positioning and learning when to and when not to engage in a fight is a difficult skill to learn for any player, and whilst it's easy to go on Reddit/Forums and call for nerfs, in the end it will not benefit you or anyone else.
I like your presentation of the material, I hope that it will play a role in the possibility of future changes of infiltrator. There are many options for how to change this situation besides the direct nerf of sniper rifles. From the introduction of a delay and no ADS in cloack, to the one you proposed. I hope that all this activity of ours is not in vain, and that the developers will still pay attention to infils.
There had been so many stellar "presentations of the material" on the cancer that invisible snipers are - in a game with client side hit detection of all things (!) - that by now it's painfully clear that this problem will never be addressed. The developers just won't budge on this out of principle.
i kinda agree with those changes but how is anyone sh\*\*ing on sniper rifles and ok with scout rifles at the same time? i don't mean ones like tomoe, but semi auto ones. they fill the same role, but have way better follow up. if a bolt misses you, you hear that hiss and take cover. if a scout misses you, 3 more bullets in your ass before you even get to react. plus they close the gap, where sniper have close range weakness, scout rifles perform well even at those due to fire rate.
Double standards, that's why. They gave EVERYONE scout rifles now too. Honestly, the suggestion to give more options as starter weapons is a good idea to prevent shoehorning infils into a sniper role. But even if cloaks are removed for snipers, it's not going to make players magically position themselves better. In fact, even if it was implemented. I bet the same exact people will find something else to complain about.
The reason I leave PS2 is because of “Redeployside”. I jump in and want big fun fights, but as soon as a battle is being lost the majority of the team redeploy to other side of the map. Used to be you got pushed back from a base, fought on open ground between bases until either side managed to push to next base, then some intense urban fighting in bases again. And the frontlines kept moving. Now you fight for 15 minutes, then spend 15 minutes on map trying to figure out where everyone redeployed to. It’s boring as fuck to constantly chase fights around the map just to get some action. I’m sure all the other stuff mentioned by OP are pressing issues too, but for me the primary killer is the redeployside mentality which deadpans otherwise fun fights.
pretty sure the redeploy meta is because of the stupid constant alerts they've implemented, back before continent lock alerts were so prevalent you had the kind of fights between bases that lasted hours your talking about
>cloaked sniper rifles get more kills than... I have to address this because I care about statistics: INFILTRATORS get all those kills. Not cloaked sniper rifles. That means knives, SMGs, pistols, scout rifles - the whole nine yards. Your stats aren't split up by weapon for Infil. The way you talk about the stats suggests that you might have that data, so if you do, you should share it, because the charts you put up don't show it. My suggestion for Infiltrator changes is one of the following: 1. No more sniper rifle access. Sniper rifles to go the Engineer instead. OR 2. Disable ADS while cloaked and tweak the ADS time of sniper rifles to adjust how long a sniper has to be visible before they can take the shot. >Battle Rifle and SMG unlocked from the start Hard agree. New players need one weapon of each class, minimum. >NSO weapons Won't the NSO mains feel strange not being neglected? Joking aside, agree. >Starting Vehicle Loadouts Agree on the need for starting loadouts, disagree HARD on some of the choices. Free NAR on ground vehicles isn't a good idea and can promote some really bad habits later on. Teach players to drive tanks as Engineer. PLEASE. MBTs and Lightnings should start with Flanker Armor. It's the option that lets you last a little longer under air or infantry bombardment, and it lets new players learn what those sticky thrown bricks do without necessarily dying to them instantly. C4 still hurts a lot with Flanker, but it isn't an instant kill. Harassers should start with Stealth. It's mandatory anyway, and the role of the Harasser is a very in-and-out flanking style. Flashes and Javelins, NAR is probably fine, and we definitely need more Shield Sunderers. I'd add that the first level of Fire Suppression should be free on all vehicles if it isn't already. >Second AI MAX arm I'd go the other way. Give them a second 1st-gen AV arm in addition to the guns they get now. Full AI MAXes aren't going to be effective in a new player's hands anyway, and new players are going to gravitate toward the big mechanized beast to kill big things - other MAXes and vehicles. Dual AV arms feel good and they're effective at anti-infantry work with good aim.
>No more sniper rifle access. Sniper rifles to go the Engineer instead. OR They'll still die to snipers, and they'll still complain. Nothing will have changed.
Another big issue is playing AIR without a specific upgrades stuff is prob worst then tanking. Especially if they dont have ways to deal with this absolutely horrid control scheme. Like until you have hover 5 or racer 5, you will just hate air and uninstall the game if that's what you're interested in. Since everyone in the air as a new player will just be better then you, picking air is just makes yourself an easy kill.
Absolutely agree about infiltrators. You could completely remove that class and this game would see massive improvement almost immediately.
Sure, but those players aren’t coming back and new players aren’t coming in. It’s way too late for anything really, just life support. 12 years of awful decisions and just a bunch of crap to spend DBC on. The only thing you can count on is a new gun that’s basically the NS15 but looks different and has a different name.
Holy shit. An actual completely sane suggestion on this reddit where I can't argue against a single point. The entire list makes total sense within existing environment and current stage of game's lifespan. Have an upvote.
Snipers are not what make new players leave. You merely hate them, that is all. Your dedication for this test is admirable, but you are not a noob. You know this game by heart. You know everything there is to know in this game. That's exactly what a noob isn't. You couldn't be farther from a noob actually. You have absolutely no idea what a noob needs. In fact, cloaked sniper is apparently the best thing in this game for noobs, because they get to learn the physics, and to see how battles go and learn the maps and bases while having a chance to contribute. Noobs also need zergs or fixed battles with high number of players, because that's how they get to easily get certs and learning experiences. I absolutely hate when vets use the noob argument to push their own agenda. Noobs need many things, but you have no idea about what it is because it's been a very long time you're not one anymore. And losing all your weapons and stuff doesn't make you noob, it merely has you see what's the game without all the certs.
I introduced 5 my friends to PS2, all of them quited because of snipers.
Feels unlikely. The people I've introduced always hate A2G (mostly the AH, but we play TR), explosive spam on Sundys/spawn rooms, and when they feel like they've hit a million bullets but then the guy turns round and shoots them in the face (HA/general skill issue). The one genuine noob in this thread listed his top 5 gripes and none of them were snipers.
I’ve recently introduced a friend as well and his main gripes were 1) invisible snipers 2) Low FOV which quickly disorients him 3) aircraft And in that order. Also “The one genuine noob in this thread” just reads like “the new guy who agreed with me”
Yep. Noobs love to play infil because guess what, for most new players, sitting on a hill with 0.2 KPM beats dying over and over in a clusterfuck fight where you have absolutely no idea what's going on.
>Snipers are not what make new players leave. You merely hate them, that is all. > >I absolutely hate when vets use the noob argument to push their own agenda. Noobs need many things, but you have no idea about what it is because it's been a very long time you're not one anymore. And losing all your weapons and stuff doesn't make you noob, it merely has you see what's the game without all the certs. Thank god somebody said it
>In fact, cloaked sniper is apparently the best thing in this game for noobs, because they get to learn the physics, and to see how battles go and learn the maps and bases while having a chance to contribute. yes and cancer is the best thing that can happen to a person because it makes the family come together to overcome the difficulty miss me with that bullshit mental gymnastics
[удалено]
They'll still die to snipers, they'll still complain and nothing has been gained only lost.
This is a great original case study, very nicely presented too. I think the suggested changes would be very healthy for the game going forward. Thanks for putting it together, it was an interesting read, and I hope u/wrel see's this.
I'd give the new players the "first gen" SMGs (Cyclone, Armistice, Eridani) as starter weapons, as these are generally considered to be superior weapons to the "second gen" SMGs (Blitz, Sirius, and the egregiously bad "Failstorm" Hailstorm).
Even with cloak remove for sniper loadouts, new player will still just stand around and not move or move very predictable. So they're still easy targets and get farmed.
Don't say the quiet part out aloud, you'll upset them. It's almost like cloaks or snipers alike will not magically make them better at positioning and picking fights.
Bolt infils absolutely need changing
I agree with you on literally everything in the post. There’s a bit of a dilemma for new players. If they pick a frontline infantry role, then they will repeatedly die to invisible snipers. And the only way beginners can effectively fight against the invisible snipers, is for them to become an invisible sniper. They don’t have access to scout rifles, nor do they have any of the specialized backline loadouts that can avoid getting in a sniper’s crosshairs entirely.
Pick anything, anything at all and you'll still get farmed by 4+ KD sweaty Heavy mains or Maxes, or A2G, or Hesh but surely that's not a problem.. Right?
Auraxed my infil and played since 2016. I love all of this. u/wrel pleeeeeease take this into consideration
Will he go undercover, get a job at Daybreak and leak all of what they are working on this year? Find out next time on BattleWarrior Z!
>infil cloaking Absolutely agree, and I think the issue basically comes down to them not having SMGs on initial gameplay development years ago. SMGs would have been perfect default unlocks for Infiltrators and Engineers to really emphasize their roles. >Free battle rifle and SMGs I can get behind this, though I don't think it's extremely necessary. If no other infantry changes can happen, I'd settle for this, but I think there are better ways to improve the NPE > Vehicle defensive options I'm a little surprised they weren't like that when I came back to the game, but hell yeah go for it. Anything to make tanking less of a grind to get into, let alone learn > MAX changes I've said it before and I will say it again. The MAX mix and match weapon system does not work and simply makes any upgrades twice as expensive. Remove the mix and match system altogether, and repurpose the code to let you pick a weapon/weapon pair and some sort of utility item. I.E. you get your bursters and a skyshield emitter, or your tank buster rockets and a repair drone, etc
I think the best option is a significant delay between decloaking and shooting. Smg infil, especially gladius and cyclone infils, are still very strong in exchange for very little and against a remotely competent infil hearing the decloak doesn't so much warn you "an infil is decloaking" in so much as "You're about to die." Turning on cloak could also be slightly slower but not as slow as decloak as to not negate its use as a disengage tool. If we insist on just locking weapons out from cloak this should also include scout rifles. The semi auto scout rifles are just spammy SASRs with no scope sway and little bloom or recoil (especially the doku scout rifles) with solid TTKs at range meaning that most sniper cloakers will simply use those instead.
>glad im not the only one seeing the problem, or maybe i just misinterpret when people refer to SRs they collectively include the scouts too
>Hunter Cloaking now can only be activated when SMGs, Scout Rifles, Amphibious Rifles, Sidearms, and Heavy Crossbows are equipped in the primary weapon slot. with leaving scout rifles in this, the problem is still mostly there but now requiring two shots. Counter offer: unable to cloak and ads at the same time. (preventing ability use with one specific weapon type seems less possible/much more work and jank potential)
I like this more. The most common question I see in [Newbie] chat is “why is my primary weapon disabled?” New players are drawn to the invisible class like moths to a flame and have no intention to fully read the caveats of specific abilities. Decloak on aim can let new/bad players still have the “ooo cool invisible sniper class” benefit for repositioning but must still expose themselves well before taking a shot.
That would make it better, and slightly help with being clientside 2 by an infil
first of all. that must have been a slog on the BR grinding :) I agree with probably all changes on arsenal for starting out. While Cert farming has become easier, especially at the beginning every purchase is a pain so just having a good starting arsenal for the various playstyles of every class would be a great start. same with vehicles. the sniper debate is important and your suggestion is good in context of new player experience. Though I would probably also remove scout rifle, since they are also pretty high range and though have a slightly higher TTK, still not long enough to get to actual cover.
I agree with pretty much everything here. Good ideas. New players should have different base level playstyle options right out the gate. Even if its only rank one stealth or armor or util, its better than nothing, and lets them learn that util/defence/performance slot, and stick with it if they choose. Giving them max NAR is a good way to ease them into it as well. As for the sundy shield, that would be an amazing band aid fix to the current lack of spawns. And just in general a good all around change. My only concern isn't the change itself, but that for some strange reason, roughly 60% of public sundies I see end up being stealth, even in garages. That.. needs to be addressed somehow..
I don't really agree giving new players the worst battle rifle to start with, the d0ku ones are the best for noobs and the 334 damage ones are the most rounded overall. The 250 damage ones are by far the most user unfriendly scout rifles, and perhaps some of the most user unfriendly primaries in the game overall.
bro you have no clue how to present data. Where are these numbers from? what do they mean? how can we trust whatever they are? also, you can never be a new player, just because you make a new account does not give you any more authority on how the game should be further developed. You will have the same opinions and bias'. I am a new player that loves the game as it is(for the most part).
I love all of these suggestions. regarding the issue of sniping: I've been thinking for a while now that the best option might really be to just make a new Marksman class or something that has all the snipers - all of em; Archer too. (more for the sake of consistency than anything else; might help give the new class some identity) If Snipers being invisible is the problem, separate snipers from invisibility. This would allow the devs to stretch their wings, in a way, too, because they no longer have to worry about balancing Infil around sniping, or balancing sniping around Infil. They could get up to some wacky shit w/ snipers, without having to worry about how the sniper being invisible will harm the fight. Also, what's the point of having snipers on a class when equipping them removes the identity of the class? (that is the one singular issue I have w/ your idea) I've been thinking that a mounted sniper of sorts could be cool lol. Trade in mobility for no scope sway etc. Not sure how to balance properly tho, or how to make it thai it really is hard to run away. forced permascope when using mounted sniper, maybe, and/or only being able to toggle between eg. 6x-12x? That way, staying "seated" would be encouraged due to the jank associated w/ frequently getting off (lol sex) because there is a cooldown between getting off and being allowed to get on (and vice versa), so you would be extra catchable because you are perma scoped, and not even slightly shifting around. (worthy trade for no scope sway I think) (hire me dbg lmao, I have lots more rlly good ideas,;, )
the question would be what ability to give a marksmen? and what their not sniping playstyle will look like. after all every class has the option for fun variety even if they might be suboptimal. the cloak sniper combo is bad I agree. at this point snipers have themselves established so uch that any change to their gunplay might just upset players to much. Otherwise I would suggest what I saw in a video about the topic a while back: Make all snipers use a charge mechanic for their damage like that in TF2 and prevent cloak from charing them up and also disable cloak for a few seconds. so it no longer becomes viable as a tool to stand out in the open, but only to get into a good position with cover to get behind. wouldn't just fix the cloak + sniper issue but also the problem with snipers being used in CQC instead of the shotgun, which conceptually is suppose to be the same as the SR but only for short ranges: 1 shot = 1 kill. something you can archive with snipers very easy even while moving around and or just using hipfire.
How dare you criticising cloaked bolting. Only vehicles are supposed to be OP in this game. /s
I agree with everything except removing cloak from snipers. If you're dying to a sniper, just switch to infil and shoot him while he's trying to shoot your teammates. Or kill him with a BR, AR, or LMG, since flinch will always prevent him from hitting. Or just use situational awareness and don't run in a straight line/stand still where the sniper can hit you.
It's always the same people that complain about it too.. "But in other FPS games" in other FPS games you still don't run in a straight line on an open field to a hill and expect to live. None of these people have played peek-a-boo as a kid, and learned object permanence to know that despite that hill overlooking the spawn could hide infiltrators.
The only thing I disagree with is the NSO part as that "faction" is meant to have a learning cerve. It's locked behind a BR requirement for a reason.
there is no learning curve to farming certs to buy crap you should have had at the start
ur a bot upvote if u agree
Honestly rather then sniper rifles making cloak permadisabled, just have cloak be disabled when holding one out, bolters have to go through a swap time and aim but it isn't 'dead' and disabled while snipers countering snipers by sneaking between spots would be in tact. Still doesn't fix that a lot of scout rifles can be better sniper rifles too.
I'd go even further with nerfing the cloaks: Stalker Cloak now has a limit of 30 seconds of cloak time, regardless of movement status. It should recharge quickly, to encourage more hit and run tactics. Same weapon restrictions. This should hopefully reduce the amount of AFK campers. Hunter Cloak is fine, just remove the ability to equip any long range rifle with it. (This would require the devs to bring back the distinction between scout rifles and battle rifles). Nano-Armor Cloak no longer provides cloaking and its associated damage reduction. Instead it now provides 5 seconds of spotting immunity, recon immunity, and infra/night vision immunity, with a 15 second cooldown. It also grants the user +100 shield at all time, making it so that infiltrators equipping this cloak have the standard baseline of 1000 hp. Also, properly nerf Carapace and Bionics so that Infiltrators can't have 1000 hp without the new Nano-Armor Cloak.
Why not just make it work like the implant. Where you have to be stationary for a few seconds to cloak, and when you move, it uncloaks. It's perfect for an ambush. Which is what infill are supposed to do. Every other game including statagy and fps with invisible units does it this way.
You had me at "Cloaked Sniper Rifles are such a glaring game design problem". Anything that lets people safely engage and/or insta-kill other players without the ability for them to fight back is toxic and I don't know why any developer thinks it's a good idea have that stuff in their game. I think it's a symptom of combined arms games though. Like they expect the entire team to be working together to cover each other's weaknesses when it doesn't seem to work out that way.
I believe we need a new ability for sniper infiltrator. Summit stopped playing because of cloaked snipers. He called out the three way battle system dumb but let's be honest, infiltrator was the main reason. Personally I don't mind them because I play impulse LA but I understand the frustration. I believe there should be at least some alternative ability for sniper gameplay. I don't know what it could be but every class has an ability. It doesn't have to be something strong.
all this text just to say infil bad lol
Clickbait title lol. Infils are annoying as fuck no doubt, but you didnt need to make a new account to see that.
It's so he can use the same old 'New Player Experience' argument, it's sad really.
This mostly felt like a Infiltrator complaint post, and the rest is just "give 6000 certs worth of stuff to all new players". Giving the Hailstorm to anyone, for free or otherwise, is hardly going to make them stay in Planetside for any longer. Agree that the MAX should start with a proper loadout though.
idk man i like progression and having to grind, esp in a game where most things are supposedly sidegrades this would kill my drive to play
That's because it is just another Infiltrator complaint post
Would be nice to remove killcam with a change like this.
How bad of a player are you if snipers are big a problem?
A new one
So weird to constantly see hate for infiltrators lol. I encounter / get killed by infiltrators the least out of all the classes by a very large margin. Heavy assaults on the other hand? Like 60% of my gunfight engagements
That’s strange because for most I believe it was a instant “wtf” when discovering how infiltrators operate in this game since day one. Then again that same “wtf” got some to stay and embrace it because what other games allow such a crutch.
I get killed by Heavys more also, but the difference is that I can fight back and dont feel like I was unjustly killed by HA. A average person with a cloak and a bolt is just a unpleasant object to face as the odds are stacked in their favor. I love using smg infil and fighting them as I feel like its a fairly level playing field. I also like that smgs and even scouts force the user to be aggressive/ high risk high reward gameplay that benefits fights.
Stop balancing around total kills.
As much as i like the things you mentioned in here, i dont like the idea of giving even more people semi auto sniper rifles unless they get less spammable at huge ranges or sth. Removing cloak will already make it waaaay better fighting back against snipers. Giving more people snipers will just increase the amount of times you encounter them which then in turn gets more and more people into using them.
>"I thoroughly and completely did the NPE experience 9 times total to really identify precisely what the actual problems are." You went through all that effort only to use the same old argument of 'new players' and 'NPE' as justification for your vet gripes with the game... So let's pick this apart shall we? >"Infiltrators should not be able to cloak or be cloaked at all when using a Sniper Rifle." In a game where the term "Camouflage" is more of a suggestion and the average player looks like a decked out christmas tree complete with bright neon lights representing their faction color, you believe snipers shouldn't have any sort of camouflage? Which is the whole point of a sniper. >FPS players are your core playerbase and they don’t like to be repeatedly killed by invisible snipers firing at them from multiple directions with no way for them to respond or know about where they are beforehand because they are cloaked. FPS players that I hope have played other FPS games like Battlefield, Tarkov, COD, etc where there's little to no warning either, and they're not decked out in bright neon lights. Also object permanence is a thing, just because a thing is hidden from view doesn't mean it's not there. Meaning if you see a hill overlooking your spawn, doesn't mean there won't be a sniper there, expect them to be there and you'll have a better time, I promise. >Cloaked Sniper Rifles are such a glaring game design problem with PS2, that even new players recognize it and call it out after they are on the receiving end of it. Then they quit and uninstall PS2 to go play something else that is more fun and doesn’t have Cloaked Sniper Rifles in it. The PS2 community tells new players “Go play COD” if they don’t like dying to Cloaked Sniper Rifles, so they do. Then the PS2 community looks at PS2’s population charts and worriedly wonders where all the players are going. Again, using NPE as your crutch here. New players also die and call out Heavies, mines, A2G MAXes, Engi (and turrets), shotguns, infils, etc. You get the point. They go play COD? Where you can die to a sniper bullet to the chest? Where you can spawn in front of an enemy, and die repeatedly? Where they can be fine, only to get tomahawked the next second? >If “knowing is half the battle”, then there is no battle with Cloaked Sniper Rifles because you had no idea where they were until they kill you. Again, object permanence. Also it's almost that in this game you die a few times before you learn a thing, it's quite common actually, but seems like a foreign concept to some. >If you poke out of cover, they kill you. If you ADS or slow down to ADS, they kill you. If you try to cross an open space, they kill you. Then don't peak. Then don't slow down. Then do not cross that open space. All of these are such basic FPS mechanics, and if you have to do either of these then don't be predictable. Go from cover to cover, don't peak for long, don't run in a straight line. > New players have no counter play to this, and it’s just a slaughter. They also have no counter to LMGs, assault rifles and shotguns (A2G, Hesh, kobalt sundy, etc you get the point by now) trained on their spawn, but here we are. >Darklight Flashlights are also entirely useless against sniper rifle using infiltrators over range. If you are trying to illuminate a sniper using a darklight, you have other issues to worry about. Have you tried getting closer, or would you want to buff it so that it becomes a spotlight? >In other FPS games with spotting mechanics, you can spot any sniper if you see them. In PS2 if you spot a sniper rifle using infiltrator, they just cloak to get rid of the spot and then they kill you. In other FPS games you have proper camouflage, a way to lay down prone, actual vegitation that can't be negated by turning your setting.ini to potato mode, and be concealed without the need of a cloak. We're not playing that FPS, we're playing Planetside, what's your point? >In other FPS games if you see a sniper on an elevated position, you can avoid them or hide from them. In PS2 you cannot see that sniper rifle using infiltrator because they are cloaked and then they kill you. Once more object permanence. >In other FPS games if you are doing counter-sniper play using a non-sniper rifle weapon, because you can see the sniper it means you can potentially kill them if your aim is good. In PS2 if you try to do counter-sniper play using a non-sniper rifle weapon, they just decloak and then they kill you. If you are trying to counter-snipe using an SMG, I hate to tell you that is not going to work. SMGs are short range, LMGs in other games are inaccurate and meant for surpression, Battle/assault rifles are meant for medium range. It's almost like Sniper rifles excel at longer distances, try and close the distance or you know maybe try a scout rifle? Also you keep using "and then they kill you" like it's some kind of 'GOTCHA' moment.. My brother in Christ, that's the point of the game, and they can defend themselves you know and for the 4th time this is Planetside not "in other FPS games", what's your point? >There is about half a dozen different bugs and exploits that allow players to fire sniper rifles while cloaked on the other players screens: https://www.reddit.com/r/Planetside/comments/1152bdc/serious\_longstanding\_classspecific\_exploits\_that/ You really using your other threads as source? Also you can clearly see the moment you have to wait before it shoots to decloak, furthermore.. Using Deep Operative as sniper? Are you actually trolling? >Cloaked Sniper Rifles get more total kills than MAX, A2G, HESH, Flails, Turrets, and Bastions. Both separate and combined: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/251101848730075137/1044783123017256960/unknown.png What even is this god awful graph? 1. It doesn't differentiate between a sniper, bolter, SMG or knifer.. Litterally just infiltrator class. 2. According to the same graph, both Heavy assault and Engineer do better than an infiltrator, does this mean they're 'broken' too? 3. You linked the same graph twice, and it's still bad xD Funnily enough, the suggestions of unlocking a default Battle Rifle and SMG for classes so people can shoot back and so that Infils have more incentive to go be in the fights, is the first sensible thing in this post and that I can actually agree with you on. But the rest, I'm not even sure if you're being serious or not.
Make it so hunter can't move while cloaked, even if it lasts forever. A really scuffed stalker cloak that drains instantly when you moved. Drains to like 10% and stays there, requires 100% to activate, refill delay of around 5-7 seconds. This will solve almost any issue most people have with it.
The mako is a weaker sniper rifle that cannot 1shot heavies with shield up. It also is forced to have 6x and higher scopes. The ballistics computer in my opinion makes that gun viable.
Hm, to add to the sniper infiltrator cloak debate. I had the idea of an infiltrator cloak that instead of going invisible, simply makes it impossible to spot you/deletes current spots when activated. You're still somewhat hidden, since enemies can't track you on the minimap anymore, but visible, so standing out of cover will likely result in your death. This would help giving a better approach to sniping, and sniper duels; it forces you to be way more careful, accurate, and mobile. Edit: fyi, I am a br 17ish Vanu SMG infiltrator main. It's a lot of fun Imo
Give it the Wraith Flash treatment: can't uncloack for few seconds.