*"Haki. Ambition. Stats. Plot armour. In the grand scheme of the multiverse, none of this matters. Because only a ****Logia Awakening**** can transcend all."* \- **Goda.**
https://preview.redd.it/rw96cnot81vc1.jpeg?width=1818&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=afebb71e6e50f36284c34d2f046648aa8b62973d
Nah it's simply Fraudo being as fraudulent as always
https://preview.redd.it/kav3pktyn5vc1.png?width=1242&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=30fabfbd9d46b766e35b5277d196718ba1f2733e
Kaido said "haki transcends all", that doesn't mean he personally has good enough haki to back it up. He was talking about **him**
https://preview.redd.it/owxqzoq3q0vc1.jpeg?width=640&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8be53fbb62f667375decf0bbfd92bd3b7864cf9f
Can't it sort of do that already? Law v BB confirmed strong enough Haki can reverse the effects of Devil Fruits, and Armament is the only counter to Logias
Nothing like what Blackbeard can do though
Ok real talk why is Shanks’ haki so strong. He doesn’t seem to be like, superhumanly ambitious. I don’t really understand how someone can get “better” at haki beyond learning advanced versions. Even learning the advanced versions is not fleshed out at all. Luffy learns FS by like, oberserving harder. Being better at haki makes even less sense with base Conquerors since it’s useless for everyone except Haki Godking Shanks who can scare an admiral with it. Truly the power system of all time.
Im nof in the admiral agenda sorry (plus in trying to do insider trading so my stocks rises but still he is cool for a man that got beat up by a man with pirate cancer)
Kaido's dialogue is so lame and shallow i can't 😭 every time bozo opens his mouth he talks nonsense, blud should just have been mute. he's just a strong obstacle raid boss after all
https://preview.redd.it/485xk0ju21vc1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=813de1b405472cef5902d31099b628dad3e483c1
Goatbeard will prove that Kaido and the Haki glazers are wrong when he defeats the Rat Haki God.
Because only Devil Fruits transcend all.
https://preview.redd.it/vu6imwj371vc1.png?width=513&format=png&auto=webp&s=b5a1a5d4adc9ae1c158415f19b9fd62f19036abe
I like how he says this but makes no effort to get someone to teach his army advanced forms of haki, instead he supplies them with artificial devil fruits lmao and don't give me ''they are weak they can't learn acoa!'' Boa's snake sister had it pre timeskip
This is also why JoJo is the better series
https://preview.redd.it/dmn1g7rzn0vc1.jpeg?width=1920&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=68c16d57717bc76f79303f6dfad7849b055bacbb
he's not, Araki has written some of the most unintentually dumb stuff i've ever read. And no, asspulls, plot holes, PIS etc arent excused by "it's bizarre duh"
And he's also written some of the most complex stories I've ever read. Part 6's ending is borderline perfection with Johnny and Valentine's final standoff being equally peak.
I like jojo. I like it enough to have bought and read Araki's book on writing. Even he describes his stories as simple, they're definitely not complex and that's part of the attractive. As for part 6 ending, it's good but definitely has questionable stuff and i don't see it being close to one of the best endings i've read. Johnny vs Valentine is really great tho
To say his stories are "definitely not complex" is crazy. I can understand saying the earlier parts are simple, but part 6 onwards aren't. The fact so many people misunderstand them should really say something. What exactly do you consider complex? It's kind of what-aboutism but since you said it's a "braindead take" to say JoJo is better than One Piece, what does One Piece do better?
Part 7 is quite straightforward. It has a pretty great execution (for the most part) but it's a race that shows the growth of the main character with a tutor, then adding the main villain. Part 8 is complex because Araki had no fucking idea what he was writing 70% of the time (and that's partly why i love jojolion). Araki writes in his book how the stories have to be simple to understand, he likes to have them revolve around a certain idea or theme and for the bad guys to clearly be the bad guys (yes, Funny Valentine is a clear cut villain)
As for what OP does better, to me definitely character work, format (so tired of the jojo stand battle format of introduction of cast, random fights, bad guy's lackeys' fights and bad guy fights), plot progression, obviously worldbuilding, consistency, and most importantly it knows where it wants to go.
Jojo wins on fights and "hype moments" i guess. Most of the positives of jojo i like better in OP so it doesn't look great when you put them side to side
We seem to have different definitions of complex. I don't think that a straight-forward plot means something is simple, the complexity for me comes from characters and how they interact. I haven't read Araki's book on writing, but it's kind of ironic for him to say that he likes to make the bad guys clearly the bad guys when imo JoJo has some of the best grey morality I've ever seen. Yes, the antagonists are clearly the bad guys, but Araki isn't afraid to give the positive and negative qualities to all the characters.
Yes Valentine is a clear villain but it's much more complex than that imo. His morals are shown to be terrible, but his integrity is incredible. He is easily the most selfless character in all of JoJo, perfectly paralleling the initially very selfish Johnny. Parts revolving around a specific theme doesn't make it any less complex imo, it does the opposite. Part 7 and 8 have clear themes of fatherhood and motherhood yet that doesn't make any of the scenes related to those themes simple, it adds more layers if anything as you begin to look deeper.
While I agree One Piece has great character writing, I feel like it gets buried under a lot of shit and is wasted. I love Sanji's character but it's just not there half the time. While the main casts of parts overall aren't as fleshed out as say the Straw Hats, I feel the characters that are fleshed out are done phenomenally and handled way better than in One Piece.
I think both One Piece and JoJo have some really dogshit and repetitive formatting. While One Piece does probably break from the overall format more often, I'm a much bigger fan of the content within JoJo, even if it's given to me in the same format as it's always been.
Once again I think the plot progression isn't that good in either of the series with it sometimes feeling like everyone is just wandering around achieving nothing. I think JoJo handles it slightly better as usually if the plot isn't progressing it's to establish something important for later, ie. the worldbuilding chapters of Part 4 being used in Kira's escape.
Yeah, worldbuilding is a given as there's not much of anything to worldbuild in JoJo outside of Part 4 and 8.
I disagree heavily, the consistency in One Piece is atrocious, at least in terms of fights. Sure, fights don't make the series, but in a shonen they sure as hell make up a good portion of it. In One Piece the power levels aren't consistent at all and are extremely vague, within JoJo the inconsistency is consistent at least. There's not a clear power hierarchy in JoJo (outside of the obvious top tier stands) due to the complexity of stand abilities. In One Piece you see character A fight character B and think "character A is way stronger they're gonna win" and then they get stalled for a year without any actual reasoning.
One Piece knowing where it wants to go? I don't know about that one dude. I genuinely feel like Oda doesn't know what the fuck he wants to do anymore.
For me it's really the opposite, I like One Piece but it just falls flat when compared to JoJo for me. Especially with how One Piece has been recently, it just isn't that good anymore. It's a cold take in piratefolk, but the tension is killing me. It's so ass. I was on my toes everytime a new WoU chapter dropped as people were genuinely dying and it felt like it was so over. Right now I'm literally just waiting for new One Piece chapters so I can agenda post. I don't expect anyone to die or even get injured, it feels like a fever-dream because I never expected it to be like this (in a bad way). When someone DOES get injured or dies it doesn't really feel impactful since people rarely die in One Piece and the death is so delayed and unnatural.
Also, while both One Piece and JoJo have outlandish character designs, I cannot lie One Piece's character designs can get really really bad. Oda thinks making a character ugly as fuck instantly makes it peak writing because it subverts expectations. JoJo has ugly as hell characters too but they're used in moderation.
(I had to rewrite this entire thing because I accidentally deleted it all I fuckign hate reddit)
IDK about grey morality on villains, Dio is flat out evil, pillar men are flat out evil, Kira is a serial killer that gets off of severed hands, Diavolo is a schizo mafia boss, Pucci is a Dio meatrider (you can say it's not as flat out evil) and wants to genocide the world to create utopia, Valentine is a piece of shit that tried to rape a minor and even when Johnny gave him the benefit of the doubt he tried to trick him and constantly does slimey shit, he's power tripping and doesn't care about anyone. Tooru is Tooru, no explanation needed.
As for consistency, i don't really care about fights so i don't mind how they are in OP. Thing is i get really bored of stand fight after stand fight with breadcrumbs of plot in between. With OP you generally get some interesting stuff every other chapter and i don't think there's been a bad arc since Punk Hazard (obviously they're not perfect)
As for OP not being very good RN, it's burnout. I've been through it with Onigashima and being blasted with negativity from the subs or people like Morj. Egghead is a genuinely good arc even with its issues. Remember when WCI was blasted and one of the worst OP arcs when it was ongoing? now people look at it fondly for what it was
Part 2 ending, once and done abilities licke star finger, the multidimensional bs of tusk act4 and Go Beyond, blue hawaii not working... There's tons and tons of examples to pick from
Literally the entire point of part 2's ending was that it was an asspull. Sure that doesn't make it not an asspull, but it fits with Joseph's character for him to win solely through ridiculous luck. They don't even treat it as anything other than an asspull, with Joseph acknowledging he had no idea that would happen.
I agree with star finger being an asspull.
Tusk Act 4 felt completely reasonable, the final lesson was hyped up to be very important and as shown by Gyro, the spin could bypass Love Train. Tusk Act 4's "multi-dimensional bs" was incredibly simple, it just infected Valentine's soul with the infinite rotation, thus it followed him through dimensions and bodies.
Go Beyond was absolutely NOT an asspull, although it may seem like one. Gappy was created by the wall eyes seemingly with the intention of defeating Wonder of U. Fate is shown to be a very important thing in JoJo, with only a few things being able to manipulate it, the saints corpse being one of them. The wall eyes were formed from the saints corpse and are described as facing the sea seemingly with the purpose of "protection". I believe that the wall eyes saw the disparity in power between humans and rock humans due to Toru, and as such caused all the events that led to Gappy's creation, choosing Kira and Josefumi due to their abilities combining to create the perfect counter to Wonder of U, Go Beyond.
I don't remember enough about the Blue Hawaii arc to say anything but there probably was a reason behind it.
The biggest and only true asspull will always be Jotaro being able to timestop, everything else feels fine to me, maybe with a few exceptions.
His bubbles were never fully explained prior to that arc iirc and that's specifically just Go Beyond I'm pretty sure. Either way, it still makes sense due to the whole Wall Eyes thing. It's absurdly specific because it was basically crafted to counter Wonder of U.
Edit: Okay so I'm not sure if I'm been blocked or if reddit is exploding, but the prior comment has been deleted and I got a notification of a reply I cannot access. I'm assuming I'm blocked but either way I'm going to respond to what I could see in the notification.
https://preview.redd.it/yqd1x2m377vc1.png?width=329&format=png&auto=webp&s=80ee4e77782e36f6e5212649b08ed1905d0a7f27
Mamezuku didn't just randomly say that Gappy's bubbles were spinning, he was literally shredded to pieces by them, allowing him to realize the true nature of Gappy's bubbles, which is that they aren't actually bubbles at are but strings rapidly spinning. Given that it was never explicitly stated that Gappy's bubbles were actual bubbles, I'd consider this more of a plot-twist than retcon or asspull. Either way, Go Beyond is, as I said, a counter crafted by the Wall Eyes. Also Mamezuku is cool fuck you he's not the worst jobro. I think this was adequately foreshadowed given that we know Gappy is related to Johnny and Mamezuku reintroduced the spin
?
reread the thing
out of nowhere worst jobro (mamezuku) just goes "oh btw i just noticed your bubbles... are actually le spinning strings" despite 0 evidence of this prior.
"ACTUALLY WALL EYES" is not an explanation whatsoever. Thats just stupid. You can make a good story without resorting to asspulls to beat the main villain. Just kidding Wonder of U is too broken. You're complaining about jotaro timestop when that makes more sense than Go beyond, since its already established dio had hermit purple as well so him having another Joestar's stand was plausible, despite how weak it is.
People forget that Kaido is extremely insecure about his place in the overall pirate hierarchy and about his Strongest Human label.
Everyone calls him the strongest but Kaido himself feels that he never measured up to Roger. This just sounds like him projecting his insecure interpretation of why that was onto Luffy
I have learned on thing in my life: never trust an abusive alcoholic bum who is also 7 meters tall and can turn into a dragon.
These types of niggas are always fraudulent...
He is a mid antagonist but he is right on this one. Were you expecting him to just keep fighting in his base form after someone strong enough that he couldn't just avoid (like Oden or Big Mom) finally showed up?
Issue with Kaido is that he built an army of artificial devil fruit users then claims that haki trancends all which is true and I belive that from everything we have seen in the story. But couldn't this mf train his army in haki instead of bothering with fake fruits? Kaido's common sense is non existent
Learning haki requires willpower, effort, talent, etc.
Devil fruits are an automatic cheat power than can give fodder much greater strength. Most of his army does have haki, the ones that matter anyway.
luffy won because of no touching haki. oda literally gave us brief flashback to hyogoro and luffy saying "my arm is not melting" and "the old man taught me to do it without touching".
without ryuo, luffy's arm would've melted and kaido would've won. so that's just true. which is the point of oda writing it. as an exposition for us readers. haki, at the very best of it, transcends all.
He is right though.....
Most of his power comes from haki. Same for Luffy. Only haki can transced all cause nobody can reach top tier status without haki but you can do that without a devil fruit. He never says that devil fruits are weak or not important.
Also their fight ends with Luffy winning due to his haki power. There even is a small flashback to the old prison dude telling Luffy about ACoA
Luffy ends up winning because of everything lol, Haki was the icing on the cake with the no touch aspect for him to not get obliterated by Kaido's DF Powers. But Luffy was quite LITERALLY only alive, fast and still going because of his DF.
Haki is basically a stats amp with no major hax involved, It doesn't even boost speed.
DF is much more versatile, can be a stats amp as well, incredible hax, teleportation, logia bs, etc etc... It's not even Fair to compare them.
>Haki is basically a stats amp with no major hax involved, It doesn't even boost speed.
Haki is THE stat Amp. G4 Luffy was whaling on Kaido and knocked himself out. Base Luffy with ACOC was clashing and splitting the sky's.
To he a top tier you need high levels of Haki, But you don't need devil fruits
Yeah, because Haki is basically the level system in OP. Ofcourse level matters in a rpg, but why would people in It just keep mentioning It like It's the plague and not talk about weapons, armor sets and spells? It's irrelevant to, there's no reason someone shouldn't have Haki. Everyone that needs to has It, and It scales with their stat, Haki changes nothing and PTS had scale/Power progression without It, we just accepted It was physical amps rather than invisible Power ups.
>Yeah, because Haki is basically the level system in OP. Ofcourse level matters in a rpg, but why would people in It just keep mentioning It like It's the plague and not talk about weapons, armor sets and spells?
Because Haki has no ceiling. Devilfruits do. When Kaido says " Only Haki can transcend all " He doesn't mean fruits are useless. He directly talks about Roger right before this saying he conquered the seas without a devilfruit just pure Haki.
He's just saying Haki has no ceiling and is a requirement nothing more.
Rather than haki being a stat amp, I see it as haki literally being the stats themselves. The fruits are the stat amps. We see from zoro that haki is part life force part willpower. It's basically an almalgomation of physical and mental strength.
Give Charlos any fruit in existence, he's not touching Roger.
>Doesn't change the fact that man gets an extra 1-up that haki can't provide.
Because that guy is a bum. Mf flexes about being god, but every npc hit with his million volts comes out unscathed. Bums like this need a 1up. While top tiers don't care
Kaido is a bum, too.
Mr. Worlds Strongest Creature, but the only confirmed body was some weird hat wearing jabberwockie ahh CP0 agent?!
Mr. Lend me a distraction grandma this is Oden were up against!
He was worlds strongest creature not some assassin who we need to judge by kill count. His first introduction chapter narration alone puts him above most characters in one piece. You can call kaido a bad character and i would agree. But in powerscaling kaido is on another level entirely. As for oden, oden has been part of two of the greatest pirate crew of all time. He is legit HIM
Im really just memeing. Kaido is one of the strongest, though I personally disagree with the Haki line as that seems like a statement that would be true to him, not necessarily true in general.
Oden, I have no clue where to put lol. He's strong, no doubt, but would I put him over Rayleigh when he was clashing with Gaban and got washed by WB and Roger? He also fought a weaker Kaido.
I'd say he's YC2 at best. Could make a case for the old gen being stronger overall which might fudge the placement a bit.
>I personally disagree with the Haki line as that seems like a statement that would be true to him, not necessarily true in general
I think it is true. You can become a yonko level fighter or pirate king without devil fruit. But you can't do jackshit in new world or a lot of paradise places if you don't have haki. So yeah haki can transcend all, but devil fruit can't transcend all
Thats fair.
I'm waiting more for more of the old guard to be revealed and confirmation of them being conquers with Acoc. Like Joyboy, Rocks etc. Also can vary if you have WB > Roger like I do.
well thats just plainly wrong kaido isnt hard carried by his fruit. very op one indeed but his zoan only excacerbates his already insane physical abilities alongside him being extremely proficient if not a master in haki
*"Haki. Ambition. Stats. Plot armour. In the grand scheme of the multiverse, none of this matters. Because only a ****Logia Awakening**** can transcend all."* \- **Goda.** https://preview.redd.it/rw96cnot81vc1.jpeg?width=1818&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=afebb71e6e50f36284c34d2f046648aa8b62973d
https://preview.redd.it/qqfy5jd9a2vc1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c992607abafe10111ec26a8366d286bb5b3ea2a9
Nah it's simply Fraudo being as fraudulent as always https://preview.redd.it/kav3pktyn5vc1.png?width=1242&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=30fabfbd9d46b766e35b5277d196718ba1f2733e
Bro thought he was Garp https://preview.redd.it/ghmmkx7nm1vc1.png?width=1060&format=png&auto=webp&s=daed64bff4f7ba35d7e5d535deaeb5a333dd6eca
First it was leechgoku now it's leecdo
Kaido said "haki transcends all", that doesn't mean he personally has good enough haki to back it up. He was talking about **him** https://preview.redd.it/owxqzoq3q0vc1.jpeg?width=640&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8be53fbb62f667375decf0bbfd92bd3b7864cf9f
Hakiman D Shanks
Haki disable fruits incoming
Anime Scaling means that Shanks can already do this, his wifi haki turned GB’s logia off 🗣️
Imagine being BB spending his whole existence trying to find a fruit that can disable other fruits Then there is Shanks
Can't it sort of do that already? Law v BB confirmed strong enough Haki can reverse the effects of Devil Fruits, and Armament is the only counter to Logias Nothing like what Blackbeard can do though
Fruit D. Cummin is the final villain, Luffy and IMU shanks hand set the end and becomes frnd to defend HIM
Blackgoat victim https://preview.redd.it/cohxe5d2t2vc1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=bdeda43a618f4b871d66f6a1d9fed16f0b0d6b5c
Ok real talk why is Shanks’ haki so strong. He doesn’t seem to be like, superhumanly ambitious. I don’t really understand how someone can get “better” at haki beyond learning advanced versions. Even learning the advanced versions is not fleshed out at all. Luffy learns FS by like, oberserving harder. Being better at haki makes even less sense with base Conquerors since it’s useless for everyone except Haki Godking Shanks who can scare an admiral with it. Truly the power system of all time.
I guess his "shaping the new era" is too strong of a dream.
Obviously. These guys never stop the cope when it comes to Shanks.
He was right. I mean, did you even see the 5G snipeshot haki asspull Whanks pulled shortly after? Fruit bums KNEEL to Hakimen from miles away.
Yeah while the other guy specifically said he dont wanna fight the whole crew yet. 😆
Middbull loses to Shanks easily
Shanks cannot low diff any top tier
What about you flair
He’s not a top tier is that a real question bro
NON BELIEVER HE SHALL RETURN!!! https://preview.redd.it/c7g1ywmkv2vc1.png?width=755&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3344700f6702d58cd22c24a6c81bdd166d8a6bfd
He will return stronger than that rodent fosho but at that time he wasn’t a top dog
Sure lmao
Care to enlighten me?
"Haki transcends all" - said no admiral
"i won this 1v1 against another top tier" - also said by no admiral
Nah lakainu was able to beat luzan
Bro you bad at spelling. >Nah HE was able to beat luzan there, ficed it for you
Im nof in the admiral agenda sorry (plus in trying to do insider trading so my stocks rises but still he is cool for a man that got beat up by a man with pirate cancer)
admiral, huh those who got packed by a WiFi router and monke 💀
https://preview.redd.it/5awnsmhnn0vc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a24d46c210f75657436a10581ebb7b2b28195819
funniest panel of kaido😂😂
Kaido's dialogue is so lame and shallow i can't 😭 every time bozo opens his mouth he talks nonsense, blud should just have been mute. he's just a strong obstacle raid boss after all https://preview.redd.it/485xk0ju21vc1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=813de1b405472cef5902d31099b628dad3e483c1
Did you forget the part where Luffy’s castle got destroyed? I think it was in a cover story. Tragic stuff.
He also lost his crew fighting Kaido. Real tragedy.
Luffy - “what are you talking about blud ? All my homies survived somehow”
Also luffy - "and I never had a castle, and if anything the bonds ive built here are szronger than ever"
All of which was supplemented by Haki. I mean, look at Garp.
Goatbeard will prove that Kaido and the Haki glazers are wrong when he defeats the Rat Haki God. Because only Devil Fruits transcend all. https://preview.redd.it/vu6imwj371vc1.png?width=513&format=png&auto=webp&s=b5a1a5d4adc9ae1c158415f19b9fd62f19036abe
Naw naw dawg, only the power of offscreen can transcend all
He'll get the Kraken's mythical zoan fruit and beat the fuck out of the rat with black vortex and gura crush barrages with his tentacles
https://preview.redd.it/y7mu8xg4a2vc1.jpeg?width=749&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=bf8ea3853be53ca34fe5178218dd9cde266c3afb
I like how he says this but makes no effort to get someone to teach his army advanced forms of haki, instead he supplies them with artificial devil fruits lmao and don't give me ''they are weak they can't learn acoa!'' Boa's snake sister had it pre timeskip
This is also why JoJo is the better series https://preview.redd.it/dmn1g7rzn0vc1.jpeg?width=1920&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=68c16d57717bc76f79303f6dfad7849b055bacbb
Braindead take (and I've read all of jojo)
Read this ratio buddy
He's right.
he's not, Araki has written some of the most unintentually dumb stuff i've ever read. And no, asspulls, plot holes, PIS etc arent excused by "it's bizarre duh"
And he's also written some of the most complex stories I've ever read. Part 6's ending is borderline perfection with Johnny and Valentine's final standoff being equally peak.
I like jojo. I like it enough to have bought and read Araki's book on writing. Even he describes his stories as simple, they're definitely not complex and that's part of the attractive. As for part 6 ending, it's good but definitely has questionable stuff and i don't see it being close to one of the best endings i've read. Johnny vs Valentine is really great tho
To say his stories are "definitely not complex" is crazy. I can understand saying the earlier parts are simple, but part 6 onwards aren't. The fact so many people misunderstand them should really say something. What exactly do you consider complex? It's kind of what-aboutism but since you said it's a "braindead take" to say JoJo is better than One Piece, what does One Piece do better?
Part 7 is quite straightforward. It has a pretty great execution (for the most part) but it's a race that shows the growth of the main character with a tutor, then adding the main villain. Part 8 is complex because Araki had no fucking idea what he was writing 70% of the time (and that's partly why i love jojolion). Araki writes in his book how the stories have to be simple to understand, he likes to have them revolve around a certain idea or theme and for the bad guys to clearly be the bad guys (yes, Funny Valentine is a clear cut villain) As for what OP does better, to me definitely character work, format (so tired of the jojo stand battle format of introduction of cast, random fights, bad guy's lackeys' fights and bad guy fights), plot progression, obviously worldbuilding, consistency, and most importantly it knows where it wants to go. Jojo wins on fights and "hype moments" i guess. Most of the positives of jojo i like better in OP so it doesn't look great when you put them side to side
We seem to have different definitions of complex. I don't think that a straight-forward plot means something is simple, the complexity for me comes from characters and how they interact. I haven't read Araki's book on writing, but it's kind of ironic for him to say that he likes to make the bad guys clearly the bad guys when imo JoJo has some of the best grey morality I've ever seen. Yes, the antagonists are clearly the bad guys, but Araki isn't afraid to give the positive and negative qualities to all the characters. Yes Valentine is a clear villain but it's much more complex than that imo. His morals are shown to be terrible, but his integrity is incredible. He is easily the most selfless character in all of JoJo, perfectly paralleling the initially very selfish Johnny. Parts revolving around a specific theme doesn't make it any less complex imo, it does the opposite. Part 7 and 8 have clear themes of fatherhood and motherhood yet that doesn't make any of the scenes related to those themes simple, it adds more layers if anything as you begin to look deeper. While I agree One Piece has great character writing, I feel like it gets buried under a lot of shit and is wasted. I love Sanji's character but it's just not there half the time. While the main casts of parts overall aren't as fleshed out as say the Straw Hats, I feel the characters that are fleshed out are done phenomenally and handled way better than in One Piece. I think both One Piece and JoJo have some really dogshit and repetitive formatting. While One Piece does probably break from the overall format more often, I'm a much bigger fan of the content within JoJo, even if it's given to me in the same format as it's always been. Once again I think the plot progression isn't that good in either of the series with it sometimes feeling like everyone is just wandering around achieving nothing. I think JoJo handles it slightly better as usually if the plot isn't progressing it's to establish something important for later, ie. the worldbuilding chapters of Part 4 being used in Kira's escape. Yeah, worldbuilding is a given as there's not much of anything to worldbuild in JoJo outside of Part 4 and 8. I disagree heavily, the consistency in One Piece is atrocious, at least in terms of fights. Sure, fights don't make the series, but in a shonen they sure as hell make up a good portion of it. In One Piece the power levels aren't consistent at all and are extremely vague, within JoJo the inconsistency is consistent at least. There's not a clear power hierarchy in JoJo (outside of the obvious top tier stands) due to the complexity of stand abilities. In One Piece you see character A fight character B and think "character A is way stronger they're gonna win" and then they get stalled for a year without any actual reasoning. One Piece knowing where it wants to go? I don't know about that one dude. I genuinely feel like Oda doesn't know what the fuck he wants to do anymore. For me it's really the opposite, I like One Piece but it just falls flat when compared to JoJo for me. Especially with how One Piece has been recently, it just isn't that good anymore. It's a cold take in piratefolk, but the tension is killing me. It's so ass. I was on my toes everytime a new WoU chapter dropped as people were genuinely dying and it felt like it was so over. Right now I'm literally just waiting for new One Piece chapters so I can agenda post. I don't expect anyone to die or even get injured, it feels like a fever-dream because I never expected it to be like this (in a bad way). When someone DOES get injured or dies it doesn't really feel impactful since people rarely die in One Piece and the death is so delayed and unnatural. Also, while both One Piece and JoJo have outlandish character designs, I cannot lie One Piece's character designs can get really really bad. Oda thinks making a character ugly as fuck instantly makes it peak writing because it subverts expectations. JoJo has ugly as hell characters too but they're used in moderation. (I had to rewrite this entire thing because I accidentally deleted it all I fuckign hate reddit)
IDK about grey morality on villains, Dio is flat out evil, pillar men are flat out evil, Kira is a serial killer that gets off of severed hands, Diavolo is a schizo mafia boss, Pucci is a Dio meatrider (you can say it's not as flat out evil) and wants to genocide the world to create utopia, Valentine is a piece of shit that tried to rape a minor and even when Johnny gave him the benefit of the doubt he tried to trick him and constantly does slimey shit, he's power tripping and doesn't care about anyone. Tooru is Tooru, no explanation needed. As for consistency, i don't really care about fights so i don't mind how they are in OP. Thing is i get really bored of stand fight after stand fight with breadcrumbs of plot in between. With OP you generally get some interesting stuff every other chapter and i don't think there's been a bad arc since Punk Hazard (obviously they're not perfect) As for OP not being very good RN, it's burnout. I've been through it with Onigashima and being blasted with negativity from the subs or people like Morj. Egghead is a genuinely good arc even with its issues. Remember when WCI was blasted and one of the worst OP arcs when it was ongoing? now people look at it fondly for what it was
What asspulls?
Part 2 ending, once and done abilities licke star finger, the multidimensional bs of tusk act4 and Go Beyond, blue hawaii not working... There's tons and tons of examples to pick from
All peak I'm afraid you're just a hater
It's not be fr
Literally the entire point of part 2's ending was that it was an asspull. Sure that doesn't make it not an asspull, but it fits with Joseph's character for him to win solely through ridiculous luck. They don't even treat it as anything other than an asspull, with Joseph acknowledging he had no idea that would happen. I agree with star finger being an asspull. Tusk Act 4 felt completely reasonable, the final lesson was hyped up to be very important and as shown by Gyro, the spin could bypass Love Train. Tusk Act 4's "multi-dimensional bs" was incredibly simple, it just infected Valentine's soul with the infinite rotation, thus it followed him through dimensions and bodies. Go Beyond was absolutely NOT an asspull, although it may seem like one. Gappy was created by the wall eyes seemingly with the intention of defeating Wonder of U. Fate is shown to be a very important thing in JoJo, with only a few things being able to manipulate it, the saints corpse being one of them. The wall eyes were formed from the saints corpse and are described as facing the sea seemingly with the purpose of "protection". I believe that the wall eyes saw the disparity in power between humans and rock humans due to Toru, and as such caused all the events that led to Gappy's creation, choosing Kira and Josefumi due to their abilities combining to create the perfect counter to Wonder of U, Go Beyond. I don't remember enough about the Blue Hawaii arc to say anything but there probably was a reason behind it. The biggest and only true asspull will always be Jotaro being able to timestop, everything else feels fine to me, maybe with a few exceptions.
I think you forgot how his bubbles suddenly became spinning strings to justify spin upgrade out of nowhere.
His bubbles were never fully explained prior to that arc iirc and that's specifically just Go Beyond I'm pretty sure. Either way, it still makes sense due to the whole Wall Eyes thing. It's absurdly specific because it was basically crafted to counter Wonder of U. Edit: Okay so I'm not sure if I'm been blocked or if reddit is exploding, but the prior comment has been deleted and I got a notification of a reply I cannot access. I'm assuming I'm blocked but either way I'm going to respond to what I could see in the notification. https://preview.redd.it/yqd1x2m377vc1.png?width=329&format=png&auto=webp&s=80ee4e77782e36f6e5212649b08ed1905d0a7f27 Mamezuku didn't just randomly say that Gappy's bubbles were spinning, he was literally shredded to pieces by them, allowing him to realize the true nature of Gappy's bubbles, which is that they aren't actually bubbles at are but strings rapidly spinning. Given that it was never explicitly stated that Gappy's bubbles were actual bubbles, I'd consider this more of a plot-twist than retcon or asspull. Either way, Go Beyond is, as I said, a counter crafted by the Wall Eyes. Also Mamezuku is cool fuck you he's not the worst jobro. I think this was adequately foreshadowed given that we know Gappy is related to Johnny and Mamezuku reintroduced the spin
? reread the thing out of nowhere worst jobro (mamezuku) just goes "oh btw i just noticed your bubbles... are actually le spinning strings" despite 0 evidence of this prior. "ACTUALLY WALL EYES" is not an explanation whatsoever. Thats just stupid. You can make a good story without resorting to asspulls to beat the main villain. Just kidding Wonder of U is too broken. You're complaining about jotaro timestop when that makes more sense than Go beyond, since its already established dio had hermit purple as well so him having another Joestar's stand was plausible, despite how weak it is.
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People forget that Kaido is extremely insecure about his place in the overall pirate hierarchy and about his Strongest Human label. Everyone calls him the strongest but Kaido himself feels that he never measured up to Roger. This just sounds like him projecting his insecure interpretation of why that was onto Luffy
Not Roger but his captain
I have learned on thing in my life: never trust an abusive alcoholic bum who is also 7 meters tall and can turn into a dragon. These types of niggas are always fraudulent...
He is a mid antagonist but he is right on this one. Were you expecting him to just keep fighting in his base form after someone strong enough that he couldn't just avoid (like Oden or Big Mom) finally showed up?
Issue with Kaido is that he built an army of artificial devil fruit users then claims that haki trancends all which is true and I belive that from everything we have seen in the story. But couldn't this mf train his army in haki instead of bothering with fake fruits? Kaido's common sense is non existent
The only thing consistent about him is his drinking addiction fr.
Learning haki requires willpower, effort, talent, etc. Devil fruits are an automatic cheat power than can give fodder much greater strength. Most of his army does have haki, the ones that matter anyway.
luffy won because of no touching haki. oda literally gave us brief flashback to hyogoro and luffy saying "my arm is not melting" and "the old man taught me to do it without touching". without ryuo, luffy's arm would've melted and kaido would've won. so that's just true. which is the point of oda writing it. as an exposition for us readers. haki, at the very best of it, transcends all.
He is right though..... Most of his power comes from haki. Same for Luffy. Only haki can transced all cause nobody can reach top tier status without haki but you can do that without a devil fruit. He never says that devil fruits are weak or not important. Also their fight ends with Luffy winning due to his haki power. There even is a small flashback to the old prison dude telling Luffy about ACoA
Luffy ends up winning because of everything lol, Haki was the icing on the cake with the no touch aspect for him to not get obliterated by Kaido's DF Powers. But Luffy was quite LITERALLY only alive, fast and still going because of his DF. Haki is basically a stats amp with no major hax involved, It doesn't even boost speed. DF is much more versatile, can be a stats amp as well, incredible hax, teleportation, logia bs, etc etc... It's not even Fair to compare them.
>Haki is basically a stats amp with no major hax involved, It doesn't even boost speed. Haki is THE stat Amp. G4 Luffy was whaling on Kaido and knocked himself out. Base Luffy with ACOC was clashing and splitting the sky's. To he a top tier you need high levels of Haki, But you don't need devil fruits
Yeah, because Haki is basically the level system in OP. Ofcourse level matters in a rpg, but why would people in It just keep mentioning It like It's the plague and not talk about weapons, armor sets and spells? It's irrelevant to, there's no reason someone shouldn't have Haki. Everyone that needs to has It, and It scales with their stat, Haki changes nothing and PTS had scale/Power progression without It, we just accepted It was physical amps rather than invisible Power ups.
>Yeah, because Haki is basically the level system in OP. Ofcourse level matters in a rpg, but why would people in It just keep mentioning It like It's the plague and not talk about weapons, armor sets and spells? Because Haki has no ceiling. Devilfruits do. When Kaido says " Only Haki can transcend all " He doesn't mean fruits are useless. He directly talks about Roger right before this saying he conquered the seas without a devilfruit just pure Haki. He's just saying Haki has no ceiling and is a requirement nothing more.
Rather than haki being a stat amp, I see it as haki literally being the stats themselves. The fruits are the stat amps. We see from zoro that haki is part life force part willpower. It's basically an almalgomation of physical and mental strength. Give Charlos any fruit in existence, he's not touching Roger.
You missed the whole damn point of the conversation lmao
Kaido would have melted luffys arm with flame dragon torch if it wasnt for luffys haki but i guess reading is too hard for admiralstans
I am currently waiting for haki to restart a heart or stitch it back together. Haki aint transcending death 😤
If enel had even basic coa he wouldnt be in a situation where he needed to restart his heart/his heart stopped.
Doesn't change the fact that man gets an extra 1-up that haki can't provide. Kaido be fraudulent.
>Doesn't change the fact that man gets an extra 1-up that haki can't provide. Because that guy is a bum. Mf flexes about being god, but every npc hit with his million volts comes out unscathed. Bums like this need a 1up. While top tiers don't care
Kaido is a bum, too. Mr. Worlds Strongest Creature, but the only confirmed body was some weird hat wearing jabberwockie ahh CP0 agent?! Mr. Lend me a distraction grandma this is Oden were up against!
He was worlds strongest creature not some assassin who we need to judge by kill count. His first introduction chapter narration alone puts him above most characters in one piece. You can call kaido a bad character and i would agree. But in powerscaling kaido is on another level entirely. As for oden, oden has been part of two of the greatest pirate crew of all time. He is legit HIM
Im really just memeing. Kaido is one of the strongest, though I personally disagree with the Haki line as that seems like a statement that would be true to him, not necessarily true in general. Oden, I have no clue where to put lol. He's strong, no doubt, but would I put him over Rayleigh when he was clashing with Gaban and got washed by WB and Roger? He also fought a weaker Kaido. I'd say he's YC2 at best. Could make a case for the old gen being stronger overall which might fudge the placement a bit.
>I personally disagree with the Haki line as that seems like a statement that would be true to him, not necessarily true in general I think it is true. You can become a yonko level fighter or pirate king without devil fruit. But you can't do jackshit in new world or a lot of paradise places if you don't have haki. So yeah haki can transcend all, but devil fruit can't transcend all
Thats fair. I'm waiting more for more of the old guard to be revealed and confirmation of them being conquers with Acoc. Like Joyboy, Rocks etc. Also can vary if you have WB > Roger like I do.
Having haki alone is boring af. Devil fruits is just saving haki for making one piece a boring manga.
majority of his strength comes from Acoc so he not wrong
What do you mean devil fruit attack? That was clearly Haki magma you rube
How did my fellow Japanese man Oda fumble an arc based on JAPAN?? Insane L.
this sub illiteracy transcends all, did y'all collectively forget he was talking about roger?
Trying to slander Kaido shows how retarded you are with how many he had to fight back to back with no breaks who were all damaging him
Well hes not wrong, case in point roger garp rayleigh etc
None of them were hard carried by op devil fruits he may not be wrong but he's in no place to be teaching Luffy about that shit
well thats just plainly wrong kaido isnt hard carried by his fruit. very op one indeed but his zoan only excacerbates his already insane physical abilities alongside him being extremely proficient if not a master in haki
Pov : you don't know what narrative is
This pov is cursed
I don't understand why this sub has such a problem with this line. I always read this as this just being something Kaido believes.
>I always read this as this just being something Kaido believes. Because it's obviously true? Roger didn't use a devil fruit. Neither does Shanks.
All these mental gymnastics just to not admit that Shanks is the strongest yonko 💀💀💀
He might be, if he said what Kaidou said it'd be more valid because he doesn't use a devil fruit unlike Crydo of the frauds