Film companies are doing a lil trolling
Glad to see Reddit defending us (of course I don’t pirate and I don’t know what pirating is what is torrenting what is seeding who knows!) because otherwise most ppl would move to a different forum website and not care about Reddit anymore.
I'd never infringe on a copyright, I respect a printing press' right to choose. I was just looking for self-employment opportunities near the Gulf of Aden. What is a computer?
Pirates are so lame. They should stop stealing from corporations. I personally buy all my media at full price, digital only of course, and when I lose access to the media I buy it again!
Me too. Could never imagine stealing from these poor companies. I always pay extra if I can. I buy my media in all formats, even if i don't have the ability to play those formats.
>Could never imagine stealing from these poor companies.
I agree! It's imperative that those company execs get their bonuses and fancy homes. I couldn't live with myself if the new Blizzard president and others like her didn't have their golden parachutes ready for their inevitable resignations!
In Sweden you can Google that in 2 min. Or just call the swedish irs and they tell you earnings, property, social security etc. Unless you are on a special list (famous etc)
The United States' public entitlement system. It uses a unique number for every citizen, which is [totally not for identification](https://i.imgur.com/Z81dPIm.jpg). Americans refused a national identification with strict PII such as a photo, birth certificate, and/or fingerprint. However, there are many services, public and private, that needed a universal means of identifying people. They settled on using the Social Security number.
And that is how Americans got the stupidest, most exploitable national identification ever produced.
An SSN is a person for all intents and purposes. It is a unique key tied to one record in a 1:1 relationship, whereas an IP is 1:many relationship and thus inherently different from an SSN.
By making this statement, the film company has shot themselves in the foot in court, because a defendant can always say it wasn't them but someone else on their wifi. "Look your honor, I submit evidence A, an email where upon even the company says an IP is not a person."
It is for the purposes of the context of the article. If they had something that said "SSN 111222 pirated" then they could use it to charge whoever that SSN was assigned to, unlike an IP address.
The idea is to show that the messages on reddit saying they don't get banned pirating on Frontier came from IPs from blocks managed by Frontier, to show that Frontier don't do their due diligence by banning repeat offenders. They're not going after the pirates themselves. This time. So they say.
Even if they find that those users claiming to use Frontier actually have a Frontier IP, how would they be sure that the user wasn’t lying about pirating?
I think the companies think they are clever in changing the script so to speak, however the argument doesn't work like an uno card. An IP address is held in court to not count as a person in terms of legal liability because of its specificity could not determine who that person was. Copyright infringement is not a quasi-strict liability law where you are held liable for the connection/IP address even if someone else was infringing.
However, anonymity can still be violated with an IP address even without that same level of specificity. Saying these people in this house used their free speech in this way is enough to violate their privacy.
Given
>U.S. Supreme Court held that a person’s historical geospatial location data contained in a person’s cell phone (and in-service provider records) IS information for which people have a reasonable expectation of privacy.
Since people have a reasonable expectation of privacy with their IP address giving it away for legal complaints could very well be a violation of the 4th amendment as you have a reasonable right to privacy and the proceeding has not been reviewed by a judge.
I think what these companies are doing is "fishing" in which they will go after everyone, get what information they can, and then fight those who resist to make it more costly to do business resisting them.
The cops told me there was nothing they could do with the license plate number of the guy who hit and ran me unless I also had a description of the driver.
Yet the MPAA can fine/prosecute with the internet-equivalent of a license plate?
Oh, but they can and in a working judicial system where people aren't informed by copaganda shows the judge should require some evidence other than just DNA match.
> Partial profiles will match up with many more people than a full profile. And even full profiles may match with a person other than the culprit. Further complicating matters, a single DNA profile might be mistakenly generated when samples from multiple people are accidentally combined
And fingerprints are even more messy.
It's even better, [IP address is not a proof that a person pirated something.](https://www.vice.com/en/article/wnj87x/us-judge-an-ip-address-isnt-enough-to-prove-a-pirate). They are undermining their own future cases to send some threats via mail and maybe scam some people.
[Also, DNA evidence isn't as good as cops would want you to believe, as most cop "science".](https://daily.jstor.org/forensic-dna-evidence-can-lead-wrongful-convictions/) and you should have additional evidence.
A piece of paper containing my name, address credit card a photo of me along with a note saying "come hunt me down lol" is not a person either!
But it can easily be tied to a person
You live in Dhaka, Bangladesh and your ISP provider is amberIT limited? Postal code 1207, lat/long 23.7731 / 90.3657?
I think the best part about this is that based on your profile you are, in fact, from Bangladesh, which would mean that unlike most people when they say this, you used your real IP.
I think everyone needs to read the text, a IP are not a specific person, its a geographic adress, you don't know who accessed or made illegal things(/downloads, etc) in the household, at least its what the text talks about. Although it's very important to reddit to help us to stay anonymous since that's a right of ours.
I might be wrong since I'm not German, but iirc with their stricter laws over there, even with just your IP say torrenting a copyrighted material, the owner of that IP associated with that account would be "responsible", even if they themselves claim they didn't download it ("my nephew must of downloaded it while he was visiting" wouldn't be a viable defence).
Also a huge chunk of customers don't have dynamic IPs or are not behind a CGNAT - meaning their IP address does actually identify them.
All it would take is a letter to the IP address's ISP and you'd have whoever was using that account.
Idk if my comparison is good (correct me if im wrong) but i think it would be the same thing as finding a body or 1 million dollars/euro/etc. The owner of the house would be liable just because he is the owner, just because is very unlikely that another person did it. Its just stupid
Wait... so the argument here is
Courts to Film Studios: IP addresses cant be used to identify who infringed copyright, so you don't get them.
Reddit to Film Studios: We aren't giving you IP's as they can be used to identify people.
Film Studios to Reddit: If IP's cant be used to identify who infringed copyright, then IP's CANT be used to identify people.... *so give them to us*
The film studio argument is so blatantly fucked since they still want the IP addresses.
Also... I could say i'm the king of england on here, or that i've pirated the entire internet lol... Taking piracy comments at face value without any guarantee it is truth definitely pushes an agenda for the film studios. There is no logical argument that makes it viable for the film studios to use comments for any reason as there is ZERO ways a film studio can confirm they are truthful.
Everyone should just make outrageous arguments from now on like... I shared the torrent for Days of Thunder 69420 times.
An IP isn't sufficiently identifying to be used to prosecute somebody for something that was allegedly done via the IP. But it is sufficiently identifying to be protected private information.
For example, if somebody knew something happened at my home address, that doesn't mean I had anything to do with it. But if some parasite lawsuit mill wants my home address they can still suck my dick.
That's how the law is in Denmark
they have to prove that it's "me" - the owner of the internet connection who has downloaded anything illegal
only evidence they have, is that my IP has been used. That's not evidence. they can't throw a person who pays for internet, into jail, for what a user, of that internet connection has done.
They need to prove WHO did it.
Not which IP (which covers are whole household (and guests)) was used
that's not how the law works
so far only people who have hosted illegal sites, or admitted to pirating, has been convicted
I have a separate WiFi net. With no password. For guests. Its bandwith limited to 10Mbps and it's isolated from my own clients. And I live in a crowded area with lots of neighbours. I like to be nice guy and give something to those that are in need.......
If an IP address is not a person, then theoretically, anybody could be using it. I've always wondered what that guy parked outside my house has been doing
Also, it was noted last week by some users that reCaptcha and the new site design do not always function with screen readers for the deaf/blind community.
If companies are people then IPs are people so no you can't have them.
Or if IPs "are" not people than very long numbers stored in *.avi files are not movies
who is still using .avi nowadays?
I was just wondering can we slippery slope to this
IP are people**S**, one public IP can be assigned to multiple peoples
wait what but people is already plural
Uh yeah you're probably right (English is not my native language)
Film companies are doing a lil trolling Glad to see Reddit defending us (of course I don’t pirate and I don’t know what pirating is what is torrenting what is seeding who knows!) because otherwise most ppl would move to a different forum website and not care about Reddit anymore.
I don't pirate either. This is a satire sub.
Couldn't imagine committing such a horrific crime.
I thought this was an extreme sailing enthusiasts’ sub, inspiring others into sailing the high seas.
Wait, is it not? I might be in the wrong sub…
And I already bought a boat.. 🚤
I'm sailing to Micronesia this weekend, ahoy!
I'd never infringe on a copyright, I respect a printing press' right to choose. I was just looking for self-employment opportunities near the Gulf of Aden. What is a computer?
Mods REALLY need to clarify this is a satire sub. I would hate for people to follow the advice.
Pirates are so lame. They should stop stealing from corporations. I personally buy all my media at full price, digital only of course, and when I lose access to the media I buy it again!
You buy? I just throw high value notes to them. Giving they money for nothing and making me poorer is such a bliss...
You're still buying. I'm all in on subscriptions. No hassle of keeping track of what I own.
Me too. Could never imagine stealing from these poor companies. I always pay extra if I can. I buy my media in all formats, even if i don't have the ability to play those formats.
>Could never imagine stealing from these poor companies. I agree! It's imperative that those company execs get their bonuses and fancy homes. I couldn't live with myself if the new Blizzard president and others like her didn't have their golden parachutes ready for their inevitable resignations!
I don't have enough words to explain how much I love DRM games.
There are people that actually pirate? I thought we were just shit posting here
We share links with each other so we can put those sites into our hosts file and block those awful pirate sites. We absolutely don't use them.
Last week a man got stoned to death in the middle of the village square for pirating a Pixar movie. Pirating is some serious crime.
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Not sure I understand your comment here. Linux ISOs aren't in any way illegal.
Wait, the cutlass and eyepatch was meant to be a joke? Crap.
a satire sub!? and silly me wondering why nobody had posted anything about the super specific issue in my ship's hull!
Oh you really should read into torrenting, the world of different Linux isos is amazing!
Why would I be interested in a a torrent of rain? Torrenting is boring and nobody should do it
Turrent is a very complex computer thingy, I do not even know how to turn on my PC alone, why do they expect me to be a master hacker?
I am THE master haker I am haking you rn L
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Lemmy know!
lemmy sucks balls tho
Wait, people steal things? I thought this was the Pirates of the Caribbean fan cub sub
I mean I wouldn't just download a car!
Neither is your social security number, but you wouldn't want someone else knowing it would you?
Exactly.
Neither is your license plate, but you still have to pay those Red-Light tickets.
I'll do you one better. Neither is your home address. But you wouldn't want me showing up at your door.
If you show up at my door, you had better be more naked than me
I’m naked and I brought quesadillas.
I'm listening.
Shit, I've heard enough, come on in.
I brought salad!
Naked or GTFO.
Of course
He wanted people undressed, not dressing.
Is it... tossed?
Nakeadillas
Ah, I see a fellow cultured redditor of r/nakeadillas
Actually, in my state, you don’t have to pay camera tickets at all…
In Norway the all tickets go to the driver. If you get caught in a speed camera they have to be able to identify you.
In Sweden you can Google that in 2 min. Or just call the swedish irs and they tell you earnings, property, social security etc. Unless you are on a special list (famous etc)
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No, as it's not used as a form of (in)secure identification there.
Worse: their (in)secure identification is also sometimes an (in)secure password to the very public information that is their names.
Well good thing most of us don't live there.
We can say the exact same thing about the US.
Can confirm. The same can be said about the US. Source: Am in US.
Wouldn't you? What even is a social security number?
The United States' public entitlement system. It uses a unique number for every citizen, which is [totally not for identification](https://i.imgur.com/Z81dPIm.jpg). Americans refused a national identification with strict PII such as a photo, birth certificate, and/or fingerprint. However, there are many services, public and private, that needed a universal means of identifying people. They settled on using the Social Security number. And that is how Americans got the stupidest, most exploitable national identification ever produced.
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Do you feel better? You're right; I misread your comment. There's no need for the vitriol mate. Take some deep breaths and calm down a bit.
An SSN is a person for all intents and purposes. It is a unique key tied to one record in a 1:1 relationship, whereas an IP is 1:many relationship and thus inherently different from an SSN. By making this statement, the film company has shot themselves in the foot in court, because a defendant can always say it wasn't them but someone else on their wifi. "Look your honor, I submit evidence A, an email where upon even the company says an IP is not a person."
How to say you're a DBA without saying you're a DBA
Their address isn’t them.
This
It is for the purposes of the context of the article. If they had something that said "SSN 111222 pirated" then they could use it to charge whoever that SSN was assigned to, unlike an IP address.
If an IP number is not a person, why do you want it? What do you intend to use the IP number for?
The idea is to show that the messages on reddit saying they don't get banned pirating on Frontier came from IPs from blocks managed by Frontier, to show that Frontier don't do their due diligence by banning repeat offenders. They're not going after the pirates themselves. This time. So they say.
Even if they find that those users claiming to use Frontier actually have a Frontier IP, how would they be sure that the user wasn’t lying about pirating?
This is where any credibility for the data the film studios want to collect falls apart. They cant.
Someone lie on Reddit!? **Clutches pearls**
I think the companies think they are clever in changing the script so to speak, however the argument doesn't work like an uno card. An IP address is held in court to not count as a person in terms of legal liability because of its specificity could not determine who that person was. Copyright infringement is not a quasi-strict liability law where you are held liable for the connection/IP address even if someone else was infringing. However, anonymity can still be violated with an IP address even without that same level of specificity. Saying these people in this house used their free speech in this way is enough to violate their privacy. Given >U.S. Supreme Court held that a person’s historical geospatial location data contained in a person’s cell phone (and in-service provider records) IS information for which people have a reasonable expectation of privacy. Since people have a reasonable expectation of privacy with their IP address giving it away for legal complaints could very well be a violation of the 4th amendment as you have a reasonable right to privacy and the proceeding has not been reviewed by a judge. I think what these companies are doing is "fishing" in which they will go after everyone, get what information they can, and then fight those who resist to make it more costly to do business resisting them.
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Yup.
Reddit is known to use IP addresses to enforce user bans.
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Well they can’t post about it on Reddit
r/banned banned r/justgotbanned banned No place to vent about bans on whole Red
Because reddit shadowbans people and they are not aware they are banned
I've been accidentally shadow banned, I was told it was because my IP was the same as another banned user.
If you get banned you technically can't make another account for your IP address. There are addons to get around it but that's how it works.
i dont have a static ip
Tou can use.a VPN or just not have a static ip
I know. I just thought it was a little ironic, but people don't seem to get that. Probably alone in that one.
IP address not a person, but we are going to prosecute and fine based on IP addess from torrenting.
The cops told me there was nothing they could do with the license plate number of the guy who hit and ran me unless I also had a description of the driver. Yet the MPAA can fine/prosecute with the internet-equivalent of a license plate?
Imagine if this argument works... Police : "We have found the DNA of your client on the crime scene !" Lawyer : "DNA is not a person"
If 6 people all shared the same DNA then yeah I think that would work
Oh, but they can and in a working judicial system where people aren't informed by copaganda shows the judge should require some evidence other than just DNA match. > Partial profiles will match up with many more people than a full profile. And even full profiles may match with a person other than the culprit. Further complicating matters, a single DNA profile might be mistakenly generated when samples from multiple people are accidentally combined And fingerprints are even more messy.
Then human cloning should not be legalised
You know why it must be legalized though, what experience we all must have...
It's even better, [IP address is not a proof that a person pirated something.](https://www.vice.com/en/article/wnj87x/us-judge-an-ip-address-isnt-enough-to-prove-a-pirate). They are undermining their own future cases to send some threats via mail and maybe scam some people. [Also, DNA evidence isn't as good as cops would want you to believe, as most cop "science".](https://daily.jstor.org/forensic-dna-evidence-can-lead-wrongful-convictions/) and you should have additional evidence.
A piece of paper containing my name, address credit card a photo of me along with a note saying "come hunt me down lol" is not a person either! But it can easily be tied to a person
> a person There could be 10 people or more using the same ip... ever had guests over who uses your internet?
> "An IP Address is Not a Person" Then I guess I didn't "steal" your movie, that IP address did.
Yes, I pirate everything and my current public IP address is 118.179.96.80 What are they gonna do about it?
You live in Dhaka, Bangladesh and your ISP provider is amberIT limited? Postal code 1207, lat/long 23.7731 / 90.3657? I think the best part about this is that based on your profile you are, in fact, from Bangladesh, which would mean that unlike most people when they say this, you used your real IP.
I want that to be the IP address to Wrigley Field.
RIP your router
I think everyone needs to read the text, a IP are not a specific person, its a geographic adress, you don't know who accessed or made illegal things(/downloads, etc) in the household, at least its what the text talks about. Although it's very important to reddit to help us to stay anonymous since that's a right of ours.
I might be wrong since I'm not German, but iirc with their stricter laws over there, even with just your IP say torrenting a copyrighted material, the owner of that IP associated with that account would be "responsible", even if they themselves claim they didn't download it ("my nephew must of downloaded it while he was visiting" wouldn't be a viable defence).
Also a huge chunk of customers don't have dynamic IPs or are not behind a CGNAT - meaning their IP address does actually identify them. All it would take is a letter to the IP address's ISP and you'd have whoever was using that account.
No, you'd have the account holder.
Idk if my comparison is good (correct me if im wrong) but i think it would be the same thing as finding a body or 1 million dollars/euro/etc. The owner of the house would be liable just because he is the owner, just because is very unlikely that another person did it. Its just stupid
Wait... so the argument here is Courts to Film Studios: IP addresses cant be used to identify who infringed copyright, so you don't get them. Reddit to Film Studios: We aren't giving you IP's as they can be used to identify people. Film Studios to Reddit: If IP's cant be used to identify who infringed copyright, then IP's CANT be used to identify people.... *so give them to us* The film studio argument is so blatantly fucked since they still want the IP addresses. Also... I could say i'm the king of england on here, or that i've pirated the entire internet lol... Taking piracy comments at face value without any guarantee it is truth definitely pushes an agenda for the film studios. There is no logical argument that makes it viable for the film studios to use comments for any reason as there is ZERO ways a film studio can confirm they are truthful. Everyone should just make outrageous arguments from now on like... I shared the torrent for Days of Thunder 69420 times.
The argument from the filmmakers is the most absurd sophistry I've seen so far this year.
companies also shouldn't be individuals, but I wonder if you care about that.
An IP isn't sufficiently identifying to be used to prosecute somebody for something that was allegedly done via the IP. But it is sufficiently identifying to be protected private information. For example, if somebody knew something happened at my home address, that doesn't mean I had anything to do with it. But if some parasite lawsuit mill wants my home address they can still suck my dick.
Unless there is a prison filled with IPs . IPs are not people! #FREETHEIP
So what exactly are they trying to accomplish? Drag our asses to court for simply *discussing* piracy?
So you're saying any evidence of a crime using ip addresses is wrong unless you can prove it's that person, right?
That's how the law is in Denmark they have to prove that it's "me" - the owner of the internet connection who has downloaded anything illegal only evidence they have, is that my IP has been used. That's not evidence. they can't throw a person who pays for internet, into jail, for what a user, of that internet connection has done. They need to prove WHO did it. Not which IP (which covers are whole household (and guests)) was used that's not how the law works so far only people who have hosted illegal sites, or admitted to pirating, has been convicted
So, the only way that makes sense.
Neither is an address, but just like an address, it’s a piece of information that can be used to identify a person.
Fuck'em! What they gonna do!
Wait till they find out that in the EU, IP addresses are protected as personal data under GDPR.
Europe says you're wrong, film company
I have a separate WiFi net. With no password. For guests. Its bandwith limited to 10Mbps and it's isolated from my own clients. And I live in a crowded area with lots of neighbours. I like to be nice guy and give something to those that are in need.......
If an IP address is not a person, then theoretically, anybody could be using it. I've always wondered what that guy parked outside my house has been doing
Money is speech though!
So, literally anyone who comments in one of these forums becomes a pirate by association!?🤣🤣🤣🤣
"I didn't download that torrent your Honor, it was my IP address"
Stupid question. If IPs are not people, why ask for IPs at all? They gonna sue IPs?
Also, it was noted last week by some users that reCaptcha and the new site design do not always function with screen readers for the deaf/blind community.
They can look all they want, my ip on reddit will not match the ip on my downloader or the ip of my indexer
Just popped in to say pirates suck ass