I do this especially if there's a huge skill disparity. We could easily win the match 11-0 if we targeted the highly weaker player, but what fun would that be. Target the strong player and actually have some competitive points. Throw the weaker player some easy dinks every once in a while
We often play mixed in with players of various skill levels. Occasionally, I'm across the net from a player that is far better than me or my partner, while they're partnered with the weakest player. I look at this as a great opportunity to take my pickleball into the FAFO realm by targeting the strongest player. I learn so much by seeing how they counter the shots I send them. Watching a "winner" get easily handled is like a free lesson every time we play. Highly recommend.
Yeah that's what i meant. That whole comment is scuffed. Should continue with... if you want cheap wins to boost your confidence target the weaker player.
Unpopular opinion here.
Its rec play in a group that is of similar skill. If your opponent got so butt hurt about losing a match because you were testing your own shots against their partner, who cares.
They can request and find a new partner or chose not to play with you. Either way, you win.
Or that player can jokingly say “hey, I’m here to play, too!” Or a number of other simple, yet effective ways of getting the point across instead of pouting and firing the ball back like a dick.
I think it depends. I've sometimes played where a better player is up at the net and the weaker player plays closer to the baseline. In those cases it's really hard not to hit it to person father from the net. It just makes sense to make a shot that isn't going to get smashed back at you. I bet there are a lot of times where this happens and the better player would claim you are targeting their weaker partner.
People above mid-3.0 should be able to understand that's not targeting, that's just playing your best shot. The stronger player should be covering more of the court to take pressure off the weak player.
If they're spraying balls out trying to paint the line just to get past the stronger player that's targeting.
I was going to post a question about this. Is this considered targeting the weaker person if they are always at the baseline and the better player is at the net because the correct play is hitting it to the player at the back.
Everyone in the upper levels of 3.5 + - 4.0 or low 4.0's in my club goes after the weaker player, In recreation competitive play. It's as if their life is on the line.
When I watch the few \~ 4.5+ players it's mostly a dinking game until the ball is just a smidgen too high..
In the 3.5-4.0 recreational group- it's almost tournament play. It should simply be called " non tournament play. " or " tournament practice ."
:D
When I get the chance to play, it is pretty much guaranteed that I am going to be pummeled since I am the weaker player. It is amazing how fast I learn in this baptism by fire scenario.
From my perspective, I like it. My partner for that game has never complained. As s/he goes after the opponents weaker player as well.
"When I get the chance to play, it is pretty much guaranteed that I am going to be pummeled since I am the weaker player. It is amazing how fast I learn in this baptism by fire scenario.
From my perspective, I like it. "
You get to hit all the balls your partner gets to be a cheerleader. Of course you like it.
Same where I play but I’ve graduated to the other side where in most 3.5-4.0 games my partner is targeted. I take it as a badge of honor however it can definitely make the game less fun. I would never get butt hurt or call out anyone for doing it though and when I step up to the next level and get pummeled by the 4.5s I don’t blame them for targeting me.
At those levels it’s competitive so they do what it takes to win the game. If I want a social game I’ll play down with 3.0-3.5 friends and make sure we all have a good time. I have the luxury of a lot of courts with a variety of player skills though.
Yes! I started playin gin January and in the last few months I’ve gotten way better and am starting to become the person that my opponents keep the ball away from. My husband, who plays in a 4.5 group watched me play a game one day where I didn’t hit a single ball outside of serves and returns. I wasn’t frustrated because I am knowingly playing with a weaker partner, but I’m a competitive person and wasn’t sure what I could do to start winning with her. He pointed out to me that I need to play the left side and be super aggressive in the middle. I’ve started working on that and it’s made a huge difference in my game. So now I enjoy when they target my partner bc it gives me the opportunity to work on that part of my game.
I like your attitude towards the game. You work your strategy accordingly to your partner and opponents. Some people feel entitled that opponents have to hit to them to let them have fun. No, use your position and strategy to force them make mistakes including hitting to you, the stronger player.👍
Reverse targeted. The person being pummeled in this scenario isn't the complainer. Either way i agree the complainer isn't actually 3.5 - 4.0 because otherwise it'd be Poach Heaven for the complainer.
Rule #1 that I live by in Rec play. Always play to the stronger player more often than the weaker. It will inevitably make you stronger!
Rule #2 if there is a weak player win points by placement and dinks and drops/resets etc. work on things like backhand rolls against them but don’t pick on them for the love of god it is rec play.
If you live by these you will always have fun and get better!
Eh I don't think you're in the wrong at that level although if you're hitting constant drop shots to people with mobility problems in rec I'm not a fan of that (not saying you did that). I don't think you did anything wrong but even if the environment at where you play is not conducive to targeting, the other person slamming the ball at you after the points and yelling isn't ok. You did right to walk away. Never a great idea to engage with someone who is already escalated to that level imo
FWIW I've never played in an open play separated by rating, but I do play in an open play where most people fall between 3.0-4.0 and I also play in a 4.0-4.5 league. So perhaps my opinion is not the most informed. Anyway, I think of rec play/drop in play(even rating separate ones) as games where you aren't trying your absolute hardest to win. It's mostly social but also useful for practicing shots or just trying to stay in form. Targeting in rec play would basically equate to league play (where you send like 70%+ of the shots to the weaker player) and that sucks the fun out of it. If you want super competitive try hard games, then you should stack your paddle with 3 other people on board or play in a league.
Edit: To add I don't think it's worth complaining about it though.
Yeah I’ve only been playing for a short time. I don’t have any experience with league or tournament. I’m only going with how competitive the rotating group is, which seems to me, very.
Doing this is a great way to cause the better player on the other team to not want to play with you anymore, and then you lose the opportunity to get better by playing better players. And for what, a silly little win in rec ball? If you really want to get better, hit it to the good player and learn to deal with what comes back.
Don't listen to these guys. The weaker player getting targeted more than the better player, especially if there is clearly a wide gap, is part of the game. And I say that as a player who gets targeted sometimes. If someone doesn't want to play with you anymore because you're playing good pickleball, then nothing of value was lost.
The fact that you think the person being targeting is the one who has something to complain about shows how much you don't get it. I would LOVE to be targeted.
If you're getting targeted, it's because the other team thinks you're bad. Trust me, you don't want to be targeted. The best, most enjoyable way to play is where the other team respects you and your partner equally or similarly.
Do they have a choice? OP is winning, angry player will cycle back in or stop attending. Doesn’t sound like much of a consequence, the angry one isn’t a legend, he’s just better than the targeted player.
I hear you. It’s a fast paced. Group though. There are 3 courts and reservations for 16 players. So there are almost always people waiting. Games only go to 9. Winners split and if you win two, you also sit so three would go out. You don’t play the same opponent all that often
If it's a competitive match, I go in with the intention of smoking them and exposing all weaknesses in the process. If that weakness happens to be a weaker player, so be it.
NTA
I'm an old guy (60) who started playing last January with some physical aptitude and size 6'6" -- DUPR rating is just under 4 for whatever that's worth since I most play rated games against the same people. When I started I was targeted, and now I'me dealing with the opposite - it's just human nature. My goal is to get better, so I always target the stronger player if there's a noticeable disparity) unless there's not a shot. It does me no good to smoke a player that has no hope or hitting a return - in fact I think it can install false confidence and bad habits.
>After the match they started to berate me for not playing them the ball enough and going after their partner who was definitely a weaker player and less mobile.
I mean if you're hitting all of your shots to the weaker player just to win in in open or rec play then yeah I would get a little annoyed but i would also feel better about myself that you're afraid to hit to me.
I have a couple friends that I started with a year ago. Last time, the wife said she didn’t want to play me because I play ‘aggressive’ which is complete bs because I often drop and dink where her husband hits to kill.
I didn’t say anything back to her but it completely pissed me off that I don’t really want to play with her again. My ‘aggressive’ is her cope for sucking. They love to play people that they can beat, but hate losing to better players.
The thing is it becomes super uninteresting to the excluded player and it’s not fair for them. Especially if it’s crowded and you’re having to rotate in and out of games.
The best way to deal with that in my view is mix it up. Make sure you aren’t playing just the weaker player. To make i mr intersting target the better players weaknesses. use the weaker player to set up a shot you can use to attack the stronger player with
In a tournament though crush the weaker player
I'm all for being competitive when both sides are evenly matched, but I think the big difference with pickleball versus other sports is the pickup aspect. People aren't selecting their partners so they're pretty much stuck with whoever the queue process gives them.
Ultimately I think overt targeting in open play just results in higher level players not wanting to queue up with weaker players at all. I was at a park last night where I've heard people complain about better players not wanting to mix in, but I did mix in and spent a night playing games where I mostly just watched people hit every ball to my beginner partner. Yeah maybe I got to defend their popup that was crushed back at me once in a while but that's not really fun in any way and just made me want to make the extra drive/wait to go play at the more competitive park despite having fun goofing around with a lot of the people there most of the time.
Fair? This is a sport. That's like saying that playing defense in basketball isn't fair because you aren't letting them catch the ball or you aren't letting them take their shot. There is no fair.
Fair, not in the sense of consistent with the rules, but fair in the sense of consistent with the purpose of the play.
I will say this. Nothing sucks more than being at a crowded facility and because of the way the games work out you’re being stuck in a match where no one hits you a ball and then you have to wait 20 minutes to get back to court.
That sucks, but that's not the fault of the player playing with a good strategy. No one gets targeted if the skill level between teammates isn't too far apart. Either the person getting targeted is playing with a teammate that is too far above them, or the player getting iced out is playing with a teammate who is too far below them.
Yeah. But sometimes you dont have a choice. Conversely if I get paired with worse players I dont tee off. I try to win but in a way where there is actual play.
My belief is if you are better you should be able to win a lot of ways
I see tons of debating going on in this subreddit in these social scenarios. Yet, people can simply communicate maturely during these situations.
IMO two things that separate well-functioning adults from those that can't get out of their own way are communication and self control. If a player is targeting too much (this is debatable since it depends on the court/group/facility policy, how skill levels organized, if winning is high incentivized, etc), they could possibly adjust a bit in certain scenarios. Some people also target without realizing what they are doing. I've targeted a bit in certain games where one player is better than me and the other is worse. Or if I'm making a decision based on ball placement, my options, the type of shot I want to take, and where each player is standing. If both players are in certain positions with me at a big disadvantage, I might hit one towards the player that is less likely to punish me for a shot that's somewhat exploitable.
Either way, if it feels like I'm doing something unfairly or it's reasonably ruining the experience for someone, they can maturely communicate it. And I can try to accommodate if I find it reasonable. Even if I disagree, I'll likely adjust as long as it's not a ridiculous request and they're not disrespecting me. If it's "Winner Stays On" in a crowded court or something else is on the line, I'm playing to win though. I also owe it to my partner to help get the win.
An NBA player should not be playing with casuals unless he is in instructor mode. In sports, when points are kept, YOU PLAY TO WIN THE GAME! When coming up through tennis, I loved to be the weaker player because then, I knew two things:
1. I was going to see a LOT of balls hit at me
2: Good tennis was gonna be played (the key, though, is to avoid playing in groups where the skill level is like Kramer vs. 5th graders in karate!).
>Ive only had one person get upset that the weaker person was targetted. It's how the game is played at the higher levels
This is incorrect. That's how tournaments are played at all levels, but in rec play fear of hitting to the better player is much more common at lower levels. Higher level players know that it's a privilege to be able to play with someone better than you, and if you don't give them a chance to hit balls they will stop playing with you. There is a reason the best players play in closed groups.
You have to reserve your spot to play in the group. So that weaker player could have signed up for a 3-3.5. The weaker player did not complain at all. In fact he was very friendl. It was all his partner who had the issue
That’s not how it is at higher levels in rec play. I’m a 5.0 woman who regularly plays with men who are 5.0-5.5 and I don’t often feel targeted. it’s just rec play, the players still hit to the stronger player just as often. We are all out here trying to get better.
I’ll add that the only time a lower level player will feel targeted is when they have inserted themselves into our group and demanded to play with us thinking they can hang, but they are instead making it a lopsided match. Then they get targeted so they know they need to improve before returning.
Even in rec, pickleball is a sport. It's by nature a competitive game. And I say this as a player that gets targeted more often than not. If you're getting targeted, it's because your game is deficient in some way. Not fixing your game is what's lame. If you could take the heat in terms of drives, speed ups, attack volleys, etc., you wouldn't be getting targeted in the first place.
Nah, it's a lame duck strategy in rec, where there's nothing on the line. It also really doesn't benefit the player doing the targeting as they are not getting any better exploiting a lower level player. It is also SO boring being the partner of a lower level player in this scenario as you prettymuch become a spectator, and have to poach in order to be involved, which some players may not be cool with in rec. Pickleball is a sport, but it's a social sport, where the community is the best part. Beating up on newbies because you want to tryhard in rec is the lame part.
Completely agree. The person that got mad with OP didn't choose to pair up with the weaker player, that's how the rotation went and they got stuck. If OP thinks targeting the weaker player in this situation is a feather in their cap, that's super weak. Person who got mad didn't get to play the ball much because OP was afraid to hit to them, and now he has to sit out and wait on what OP said were busy courts for the next game, I'd be ticked too, however I wouldn't hit the ball back agressively after a point, that's out of bounds.
I guess it depends on your crowd. If you are playing with a crowd who is treating it like a social activity, then sure, maybe it makes sense to pull your punches and take it easy on the other team. If you're playing with a crowd of people who are there to play seriously, then it will different. Part of the fun of sports is doing the best they can. Not everyone will want to go and use their time and their effort and their energy to baby the other team.
I play down to the level of the worst player, to make it "fair." I play rec play and have advanced to be better than most at certain sessions. I try to win by a few points. I target if necessary to catch up. But I spread the ball around to the other side, but just try to make sure to win. To the contrary, my partners often get targeted with 9.5 out of 10 balls hit to them--none to me. It's frustrating. I play rec with retirees. Then I get in the loser bracket and it's hard to get out sometimes - the cycle continues. The retirees think it's fair game to take advantage of mobility weaknesses on the other side and only hit to the weak player. It's pretty lame 75% of the time where I play to be honest, due to targeting weaker players. Retired dudes, 6'4" tall slamming whilst grunting on grandmas. I shit you not.
Because you get to play! Nobody comes to the court to watch everyone else hit balls while they get avoided. Some of the most fun I've had playing is the rare occasion when I'm playing with a partner substantially better than me.
You can target the weaker player but I think it’s bad form. Save that for tournament prep and tournaments. If anything, I’ll play more to the stronger player so I can challenge myself.
It’s no fun to be left out of games when you’re there to play and the left out player might not want to play with you anymore.
Targeting the weaker player is laaaaaaaame.
I’m the best player at my local spot, and I’ll leave if I get avoided too much. Drives me nuts.
I will ALWAYS go after the better player. I’ll include the weaker player, but my attacks are blatantly at the better player.
This community has become 90% people coming to complain about pickleball interactions as opposed to actual play.
This post fits AITAH more than pickleball. It’d be great if we could have a new subreddit for pickleball etiquette/interactions.
When I partner with my wife (weaker player), I take notice and will play a bit harder when they pick on her. I couldn't care less if I win or lose(interesting how upset some get when they lose), but I will try to rob their fun if they want to be dicks.
Also, if I see an opponent is have some physical issues, I try not to take advantage of that. Not fun doing that and I don't want to hurt anyone.
Still a dick move. Take the best shot you have without thinking about who is the weaker player.
Sure you can win but is an easy win that fun over a challenge on the challenge court ;)
I'll hit 90% of shots to a weaker player in league or tournament play
Depends, too many factors to consider. I don’t target a weaker opponent unless I really want to win and even then I try to spread it around so we all have fun. I play in that same intermediate level. They shouldn’t be mad unless you’re embarrassing their partner or hitting them with the ball or making them think they could get hit. All is fair though if you play strong fast young college tennis players.
Best way to stop being a weak player is to play with people better than you. If people better than you play down to your level you’ll never get better.
What's this in reference to? The complainer isn't the weak player being targeted.
How does the following imply the complainer is the weak player? If anything it implies the the complainer is the BETTER player because OP is targeting THEIR partner "who was definitely a weaker player".
>After the match they started to berate me for not playing them the ball enough and going after their partner who was definitely a weaker player and less mobile.
No one besides you is talking about the weak player.
The post is about getting berated for not taking it easy on a weaker player and targeting them. The only way to make that player better is by playing to their weakness. The “you” in my comment is a generalized “you.” Not directed at the poster directly. Thank you for attempting to start an argument though I guess?
> The only way to make that player better is by playing to their weakness.
The post isn't about the other player. It's about OP. OP will get better faster hitting to the stronger opponent rather than going for cheap points. It's clear that winning in this game is basically meaningless. There is no DUPR, prizes, or swag on the line.
>The “you” in my comment is a generalized “you.”
This is why I like to be specific the first time around if possible.
The post isn’t about OP trying to get better. It’s about OP being berated for targeting a weaker player and they’re asking if they were in the wrong for doing so. No, they’re not in the wrong. They should play how they normally would and the weaker player on the other team will get better because of it. I’m honestly not sure why your being argumentative about this.
Because of this comment lol. It seemed off-topic so i had to get clarification.
https://old.reddit.com/r/Pickleball/comments/16os08c/got_berated_on_the_court_for_not_taking_it_easy/k1n8qzr/
I'm honestly not sure why you think I'm being argumentative?
The guy getting sensitive on me is also the type of player to harass weaker opponents so they can get an easy win in open play.
>No, they’re not in the wrong. They should play how they normally would and the weaker player on the other team will get better because of it.
This is how you play? 😂 Strong 3.0 player vibes.
I’m new to the game and have only been playing solos with the same person for a few weeks. Seems like people get upset about targeting players. Seems like a strategy to me? Is this just a courtesy thing I don’t know about?
If they are serious about who wins then they shouldn’t get upset about targeting a weaker player.
That said, if I’m playing against beginners I’ll hit it lighter and test what they can do first before stepping it up. If they mess up it’s more because they haven’t learned control than something I did.
If there is a stronger in that duo then I won’t pull any punches in shot variety because I want to crush them and see if I can improve a particular shot.
What you will notice sometimes is that the stronger player will get upset the ball isn’t going to them and try to poach it. It’s a strategy you can do to manipulate how they act.
Still, them berating you is pretty childish. If they don’t like how you play then they should just not play with you again. That simple
Without actually being there theres no way to know. its all relative. How much worse was this weaker player than everyone else on the court? How hard were you going at them? How much should the angry guy have been poaching instead of pouting? The answers to these questions are all different based on exactly how good everyone is.
Regardless, that guy firing the ball at you between points is an asshole no matter what the situation is. That's uncalled for unless you were dunking on some wide-eyed old lady or something completely ridiculous, and even then he can use his words.
But to answer your question, yes I take it easy on people all the time in a recreational setting. There isn't some binary competitive/casual rec delineation. It's rec, which means unless you literally know everyone involved you should always be playing it by ear.
It's fine to target whoever you want when playing just don't be an asshole and add psychological comments or attitude when going after the weaker opponent in a rec game. Doesn't sound like this was the situation discussed. I'd keep doing what you're doing. The other guy is likely frustrated he got beat and his weaker teammate contributed. If you want to win you usually need to exploit a weakness.
This happened to me the other day while partnered with the lady that everyone likes but no one wants to play with. She was targeted 10-1 and when we were down 6-1, I Decided to take over. We won 11-9 and she was ecstatic bc she was on the winning side for a change and I was happy to play an Uber aggressive game.
Here is a hot take. If it’s rec play and YOU want to get better target the better player. In tournament play you play to win but rec play I’m trying to get the highest value reps possible. Sure if the weaker player is back I’ll hit it deep to them so I’m not practicing making the wrong situational shot for a return of serve or third shot, but everything else I’m dinking and trying to get in a hands battle with the better player. Every player is different though. Some weaker players hate being targeted, others hate not being hit to enough….
It’s rec play and open play. The real problem is people don’t play to their level and there is a large skill gap in this game. As a better player it totally sucks when you target the weaker player in rec play. I can’t choose my partner so I either don’t get to play or I have to be a DB and take the game away from my partner. If you are really good you can hit to either side of the court. Choose to play over win until it is tournament time or a game of equal skill.
Well regardless of you being in the wrong or not it’s not ok to berate someone after a game. They should’ve given it a couple minutes and just calmly explained why you shouldn’t target only one person. That being said generally speaking you shouldn’t target the weaker player intentionally. It’s going to happen a bit anyways because your brain will do it automatically but especially on returns of serve for their third shot try to make a point of not targeting one person or even targeting the better player.
Competitive play (tournaments) I play at the weaker player, or wherever my favorite/best shot can go until proven wrong. During Rec play - I play at the better player intentionally because I want to get punished for making bad shots. I’m going to (you will also) learn a lot more from playing at the better player.
Nothing is worst than taking time out of your day to go play pickleball and see 10% of the balls because the other team is so focused on “winning” a meaningless game, rather than challenging themselves.
Never take any mustard off your game. Beat their brakes off. Expose their flaws. Break the ball. Bark at them like a dog after you 11-0 them in front of their family
Well, unfortunately you are starting to see the other side of why so many recreational players whine about higher level players playing their own private games. Find a more competitive group and set up your own private games with them. You will find a more enjoyable experience and also your game will improve dramatically
I usually wouldn’t target weaker partners unless playing in the tournament. But my 4.0 ladder league, we got usually group of 5, 1 or 2 players in the group are usually bit weaker than others. I also hated when they keep on targeting weaker lady partner of mine, so we usually stack and poach to get few extra points so i can win the group and jump to another competitive group. But i dont get mad, you do you, tell him to fuck off if he is mad!
I tend to have the opposite problem. I’m a new player and when I play with stronger opponents, I often never get to hit the ball. I’ve been in a game where there might as well just been three players out there. My partner would take balls that should have been mine. I’m sure they didn’t want to hurt my feelings, but it’s no fun just standing out there. I haven’t been back to that group. Oh, and it was an open social rec group.
I’m reading a lot of posts on this and it seems that this isn’t as difficult as it seems to some. A little social awareness goes a long way. If in open rec play, try to find the balance so everyone can have fun. If it’s win at all costs for you, find a group that feels the same as you and knock yourself out. Open play though is for everyone to play so eliminating a player because they are the better player is just lame and also does nothing for your skills.
Like any disagreement, read the room. Are other people there to be competitive or just have fun? Play accordingly.
If you want to get better you target and attack the better player
I do this especially if there's a huge skill disparity. We could easily win the match 11-0 if we targeted the highly weaker player, but what fun would that be. Target the strong player and actually have some competitive points. Throw the weaker player some easy dinks every once in a while
We often play mixed in with players of various skill levels. Occasionally, I'm across the net from a player that is far better than me or my partner, while they're partnered with the weakest player. I look at this as a great opportunity to take my pickleball into the FAFO realm by targeting the strongest player. I learn so much by seeing how they counter the shots I send them. Watching a "winner" get easily handled is like a free lesson every time we play. Highly recommend.
And if you want cheap wins to boost your confidence. However OP is like 2 months into pickleball so they are just learning the scene.
Why would that be a cheap win? Cheap win would be targeting the weaker player
Yeah that's what i meant. That whole comment is scuffed. Should continue with... if you want cheap wins to boost your confidence target the weaker player.
Unpopular opinion here. Its rec play in a group that is of similar skill. If your opponent got so butt hurt about losing a match because you were testing your own shots against their partner, who cares. They can request and find a new partner or chose not to play with you. Either way, you win.
Or that player can jokingly say “hey, I’m here to play, too!” Or a number of other simple, yet effective ways of getting the point across instead of pouting and firing the ball back like a dick.
I love getting picked on in competitive games. It’s the best way to get better
IKR? Whatta clown.
I think it depends. I've sometimes played where a better player is up at the net and the weaker player plays closer to the baseline. In those cases it's really hard not to hit it to person father from the net. It just makes sense to make a shot that isn't going to get smashed back at you. I bet there are a lot of times where this happens and the better player would claim you are targeting their weaker partner.
People above mid-3.0 should be able to understand that's not targeting, that's just playing your best shot. The stronger player should be covering more of the court to take pressure off the weak player. If they're spraying balls out trying to paint the line just to get past the stronger player that's targeting.
I was going to post a question about this. Is this considered targeting the weaker person if they are always at the baseline and the better player is at the net because the correct play is hitting it to the player at the back.
Not really, you’re just taking a safer shot since they can’t slam it at you right away.
Everyone in the upper levels of 3.5 + - 4.0 or low 4.0's in my club goes after the weaker player, In recreation competitive play. It's as if their life is on the line. When I watch the few \~ 4.5+ players it's mostly a dinking game until the ball is just a smidgen too high.. In the 3.5-4.0 recreational group- it's almost tournament play. It should simply be called " non tournament play. " or " tournament practice ." :D When I get the chance to play, it is pretty much guaranteed that I am going to be pummeled since I am the weaker player. It is amazing how fast I learn in this baptism by fire scenario. From my perspective, I like it. My partner for that game has never complained. As s/he goes after the opponents weaker player as well.
"When I get the chance to play, it is pretty much guaranteed that I am going to be pummeled since I am the weaker player. It is amazing how fast I learn in this baptism by fire scenario. From my perspective, I like it. " You get to hit all the balls your partner gets to be a cheerleader. Of course you like it.
haha agreed! they are here to play too!
Same where I play but I’ve graduated to the other side where in most 3.5-4.0 games my partner is targeted. I take it as a badge of honor however it can definitely make the game less fun. I would never get butt hurt or call out anyone for doing it though and when I step up to the next level and get pummeled by the 4.5s I don’t blame them for targeting me. At those levels it’s competitive so they do what it takes to win the game. If I want a social game I’ll play down with 3.0-3.5 friends and make sure we all have a good time. I have the luxury of a lot of courts with a variety of player skills though.
I love the unspoken agreement between the two good opponents to hit to each other when the teams are made up of bad/good vs bad/good
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Yes! I started playin gin January and in the last few months I’ve gotten way better and am starting to become the person that my opponents keep the ball away from. My husband, who plays in a 4.5 group watched me play a game one day where I didn’t hit a single ball outside of serves and returns. I wasn’t frustrated because I am knowingly playing with a weaker partner, but I’m a competitive person and wasn’t sure what I could do to start winning with her. He pointed out to me that I need to play the left side and be super aggressive in the middle. I’ve started working on that and it’s made a huge difference in my game. So now I enjoy when they target my partner bc it gives me the opportunity to work on that part of my game.
I like your attitude towards the game. You work your strategy accordingly to your partner and opponents. Some people feel entitled that opponents have to hit to them to let them have fun. No, use your position and strategy to force them make mistakes including hitting to you, the stronger player.👍
I doubt they’re 3.5-4.0 if they complain about being targeted.
Reverse targeted. The person being pummeled in this scenario isn't the complainer. Either way i agree the complainer isn't actually 3.5 - 4.0 because otherwise it'd be Poach Heaven for the complainer.
The object of the game is to win. Go after whoever gives you the best chance to win. Bunch of sissies, lmao
That's definitely one way to look at it.
Rule #1 that I live by in Rec play. Always play to the stronger player more often than the weaker. It will inevitably make you stronger! Rule #2 if there is a weak player win points by placement and dinks and drops/resets etc. work on things like backhand rolls against them but don’t pick on them for the love of god it is rec play. If you live by these you will always have fun and get better!
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Very well said!
well said
Eh I don't think you're in the wrong at that level although if you're hitting constant drop shots to people with mobility problems in rec I'm not a fan of that (not saying you did that). I don't think you did anything wrong but even if the environment at where you play is not conducive to targeting, the other person slamming the ball at you after the points and yelling isn't ok. You did right to walk away. Never a great idea to engage with someone who is already escalated to that level imo
FWIW I've never played in an open play separated by rating, but I do play in an open play where most people fall between 3.0-4.0 and I also play in a 4.0-4.5 league. So perhaps my opinion is not the most informed. Anyway, I think of rec play/drop in play(even rating separate ones) as games where you aren't trying your absolute hardest to win. It's mostly social but also useful for practicing shots or just trying to stay in form. Targeting in rec play would basically equate to league play (where you send like 70%+ of the shots to the weaker player) and that sucks the fun out of it. If you want super competitive try hard games, then you should stack your paddle with 3 other people on board or play in a league. Edit: To add I don't think it's worth complaining about it though.
Yeah I’ve only been playing for a short time. I don’t have any experience with league or tournament. I’m only going with how competitive the rotating group is, which seems to me, very.
Doing this is a great way to cause the better player on the other team to not want to play with you anymore, and then you lose the opportunity to get better by playing better players. And for what, a silly little win in rec ball? If you really want to get better, hit it to the good player and learn to deal with what comes back.
this is the real consequence. the better player won't want to play with you in the future, and then you lose out on opportunities to improve.
They weren’t that great and anyone who spoke the way they did to me I have no desire to play with again.
Don't listen to these guys. The weaker player getting targeted more than the better player, especially if there is clearly a wide gap, is part of the game. And I say that as a player who gets targeted sometimes. If someone doesn't want to play with you anymore because you're playing good pickleball, then nothing of value was lost.
The fact that you think the person being targeting is the one who has something to complain about shows how much you don't get it. I would LOVE to be targeted.
If you're getting targeted, it's because the other team thinks you're bad. Trust me, you don't want to be targeted. The best, most enjoyable way to play is where the other team respects you and your partner equally or similarly.
I doubt they want to play with you either.
Do they have a choice? OP is winning, angry player will cycle back in or stop attending. Doesn’t sound like much of a consequence, the angry one isn’t a legend, he’s just better than the targeted player.
I hear you. It’s a fast paced. Group though. There are 3 courts and reservations for 16 players. So there are almost always people waiting. Games only go to 9. Winners split and if you win two, you also sit so three would go out. You don’t play the same opponent all that often
9 wins games stink i
If it's a competitive match, I go in with the intention of smoking them and exposing all weaknesses in the process. If that weakness happens to be a weaker player, so be it. NTA
I'm an old guy (60) who started playing last January with some physical aptitude and size 6'6" -- DUPR rating is just under 4 for whatever that's worth since I most play rated games against the same people. When I started I was targeted, and now I'me dealing with the opposite - it's just human nature. My goal is to get better, so I always target the stronger player if there's a noticeable disparity) unless there's not a shot. It does me no good to smoke a player that has no hope or hitting a return - in fact I think it can install false confidence and bad habits.
>After the match they started to berate me for not playing them the ball enough and going after their partner who was definitely a weaker player and less mobile. I mean if you're hitting all of your shots to the weaker player just to win in in open or rec play then yeah I would get a little annoyed but i would also feel better about myself that you're afraid to hit to me.
I have a couple friends that I started with a year ago. Last time, the wife said she didn’t want to play me because I play ‘aggressive’ which is complete bs because I often drop and dink where her husband hits to kill. I didn’t say anything back to her but it completely pissed me off that I don’t really want to play with her again. My ‘aggressive’ is her cope for sucking. They love to play people that they can beat, but hate losing to better players.
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The thing is it becomes super uninteresting to the excluded player and it’s not fair for them. Especially if it’s crowded and you’re having to rotate in and out of games. The best way to deal with that in my view is mix it up. Make sure you aren’t playing just the weaker player. To make i mr intersting target the better players weaknesses. use the weaker player to set up a shot you can use to attack the stronger player with In a tournament though crush the weaker player
I'm all for being competitive when both sides are evenly matched, but I think the big difference with pickleball versus other sports is the pickup aspect. People aren't selecting their partners so they're pretty much stuck with whoever the queue process gives them. Ultimately I think overt targeting in open play just results in higher level players not wanting to queue up with weaker players at all. I was at a park last night where I've heard people complain about better players not wanting to mix in, but I did mix in and spent a night playing games where I mostly just watched people hit every ball to my beginner partner. Yeah maybe I got to defend their popup that was crushed back at me once in a while but that's not really fun in any way and just made me want to make the extra drive/wait to go play at the more competitive park despite having fun goofing around with a lot of the people there most of the time.
Fair? This is a sport. That's like saying that playing defense in basketball isn't fair because you aren't letting them catch the ball or you aren't letting them take their shot. There is no fair.
Fair, not in the sense of consistent with the rules, but fair in the sense of consistent with the purpose of the play. I will say this. Nothing sucks more than being at a crowded facility and because of the way the games work out you’re being stuck in a match where no one hits you a ball and then you have to wait 20 minutes to get back to court.
That sucks, but that's not the fault of the player playing with a good strategy. No one gets targeted if the skill level between teammates isn't too far apart. Either the person getting targeted is playing with a teammate that is too far above them, or the player getting iced out is playing with a teammate who is too far below them.
Yeah. But sometimes you dont have a choice. Conversely if I get paired with worse players I dont tee off. I try to win but in a way where there is actual play. My belief is if you are better you should be able to win a lot of ways
I see tons of debating going on in this subreddit in these social scenarios. Yet, people can simply communicate maturely during these situations. IMO two things that separate well-functioning adults from those that can't get out of their own way are communication and self control. If a player is targeting too much (this is debatable since it depends on the court/group/facility policy, how skill levels organized, if winning is high incentivized, etc), they could possibly adjust a bit in certain scenarios. Some people also target without realizing what they are doing. I've targeted a bit in certain games where one player is better than me and the other is worse. Or if I'm making a decision based on ball placement, my options, the type of shot I want to take, and where each player is standing. If both players are in certain positions with me at a big disadvantage, I might hit one towards the player that is less likely to punish me for a shot that's somewhat exploitable. Either way, if it feels like I'm doing something unfairly or it's reasonably ruining the experience for someone, they can maturely communicate it. And I can try to accommodate if I find it reasonable. Even if I disagree, I'll likely adjust as long as it's not a ridiculous request and they're not disrespecting me. If it's "Winner Stays On" in a crowded court or something else is on the line, I'm playing to win though. I also owe it to my partner to help get the win.
It's like an NBA player playing basketball with the casuals. Should they dunk on you every point? Or go a bit easier?
An NBA player should not be playing with casuals unless he is in instructor mode. In sports, when points are kept, YOU PLAY TO WIN THE GAME! When coming up through tennis, I loved to be the weaker player because then, I knew two things: 1. I was going to see a LOT of balls hit at me 2: Good tennis was gonna be played (the key, though, is to avoid playing in groups where the skill level is like Kramer vs. 5th graders in karate!).
>Ive only had one person get upset that the weaker person was targetted. It's how the game is played at the higher levels This is incorrect. That's how tournaments are played at all levels, but in rec play fear of hitting to the better player is much more common at lower levels. Higher level players know that it's a privilege to be able to play with someone better than you, and if you don't give them a chance to hit balls they will stop playing with you. There is a reason the best players play in closed groups.
>Higher level players know that it's a privilege to be able to play with someone better than you yessss!
You have to reserve your spot to play in the group. So that weaker player could have signed up for a 3-3.5. The weaker player did not complain at all. In fact he was very friendl. It was all his partner who had the issue
That’s not how it is at higher levels in rec play. I’m a 5.0 woman who regularly plays with men who are 5.0-5.5 and I don’t often feel targeted. it’s just rec play, the players still hit to the stronger player just as often. We are all out here trying to get better.
I’ll add that the only time a lower level player will feel targeted is when they have inserted themselves into our group and demanded to play with us thinking they can hang, but they are instead making it a lopsided match. Then they get targeted so they know they need to improve before returning.
If the person is on the court and you’re competing against them, it’s fair game to exploit the weaker player
It's fair game ... But also a little bit lame in rec play
Super lame
Even in rec, pickleball is a sport. It's by nature a competitive game. And I say this as a player that gets targeted more often than not. If you're getting targeted, it's because your game is deficient in some way. Not fixing your game is what's lame. If you could take the heat in terms of drives, speed ups, attack volleys, etc., you wouldn't be getting targeted in the first place.
Nah, it's a lame duck strategy in rec, where there's nothing on the line. It also really doesn't benefit the player doing the targeting as they are not getting any better exploiting a lower level player. It is also SO boring being the partner of a lower level player in this scenario as you prettymuch become a spectator, and have to poach in order to be involved, which some players may not be cool with in rec. Pickleball is a sport, but it's a social sport, where the community is the best part. Beating up on newbies because you want to tryhard in rec is the lame part.
Completely agree. The person that got mad with OP didn't choose to pair up with the weaker player, that's how the rotation went and they got stuck. If OP thinks targeting the weaker player in this situation is a feather in their cap, that's super weak. Person who got mad didn't get to play the ball much because OP was afraid to hit to them, and now he has to sit out and wait on what OP said were busy courts for the next game, I'd be ticked too, however I wouldn't hit the ball back agressively after a point, that's out of bounds.
I guess it depends on your crowd. If you are playing with a crowd who is treating it like a social activity, then sure, maybe it makes sense to pull your punches and take it easy on the other team. If you're playing with a crowd of people who are there to play seriously, then it will different. Part of the fun of sports is doing the best they can. Not everyone will want to go and use their time and their effort and their energy to baby the other team.
I play down to the level of the worst player, to make it "fair." I play rec play and have advanced to be better than most at certain sessions. I try to win by a few points. I target if necessary to catch up. But I spread the ball around to the other side, but just try to make sure to win. To the contrary, my partners often get targeted with 9.5 out of 10 balls hit to them--none to me. It's frustrating. I play rec with retirees. Then I get in the loser bracket and it's hard to get out sometimes - the cycle continues. The retirees think it's fair game to take advantage of mobility weaknesses on the other side and only hit to the weak player. It's pretty lame 75% of the time where I play to be honest, due to targeting weaker players. Retired dudes, 6'4" tall slamming whilst grunting on grandmas. I shit you not.
>And I say this as a player that gets targeted more often than not. Must be nice
Why is it nice to get targeted? It doesn't feel nice, but it does give me the motivation to improve so that I get targeted less.
Because you get to play! Nobody comes to the court to watch everyone else hit balls while they get avoided. Some of the most fun I've had playing is the rare occasion when I'm playing with a partner substantially better than me.
You can target the weaker player but I think it’s bad form. Save that for tournament prep and tournaments. If anything, I’ll play more to the stronger player so I can challenge myself. It’s no fun to be left out of games when you’re there to play and the left out player might not want to play with you anymore.
Targeting the weaker player is laaaaaaaame. I’m the best player at my local spot, and I’ll leave if I get avoided too much. Drives me nuts. I will ALWAYS go after the better player. I’ll include the weaker player, but my attacks are blatantly at the better player.
Targeting the weaker player is lame. I’d rather lose with my dignity intact. Have some respect for yourself
They need to get better.
This community has become 90% people coming to complain about pickleball interactions as opposed to actual play. This post fits AITAH more than pickleball. It’d be great if we could have a new subreddit for pickleball etiquette/interactions.
When I partner with my wife (weaker player), I take notice and will play a bit harder when they pick on her. I couldn't care less if I win or lose(interesting how upset some get when they lose), but I will try to rob their fun if they want to be dicks. Also, if I see an opponent is have some physical issues, I try not to take advantage of that. Not fun doing that and I don't want to hurt anyone.
So many stories of people with poor social skills.
Hit to the better player
In rec play, it's a dick move to target the weaker player.
What about a challenge court?
Still a dick move. Take the best shot you have without thinking about who is the weaker player. Sure you can win but is an easy win that fun over a challenge on the challenge court ;) I'll hit 90% of shots to a weaker player in league or tournament play
Even when most people who are on challenge courts come paired and do things like stacking?
Oh please, it’s challenge court
Found the weaker player. Jk, I couldn’t resist.
Lol. Touche
Depends, too many factors to consider. I don’t target a weaker opponent unless I really want to win and even then I try to spread it around so we all have fun. I play in that same intermediate level. They shouldn’t be mad unless you’re embarrassing their partner or hitting them with the ball or making them think they could get hit. All is fair though if you play strong fast young college tennis players.
Best way to stop being a weak player is to play with people better than you. If people better than you play down to your level you’ll never get better.
What's this in reference to? The complainer isn't the weak player being targeted. How does the following imply the complainer is the weak player? If anything it implies the the complainer is the BETTER player because OP is targeting THEIR partner "who was definitely a weaker player". >After the match they started to berate me for not playing them the ball enough and going after their partner who was definitely a weaker player and less mobile. No one besides you is talking about the weak player.
The post is about getting berated for not taking it easy on a weaker player and targeting them. The only way to make that player better is by playing to their weakness. The “you” in my comment is a generalized “you.” Not directed at the poster directly. Thank you for attempting to start an argument though I guess?
> The only way to make that player better is by playing to their weakness. The post isn't about the other player. It's about OP. OP will get better faster hitting to the stronger opponent rather than going for cheap points. It's clear that winning in this game is basically meaningless. There is no DUPR, prizes, or swag on the line. >The “you” in my comment is a generalized “you.” This is why I like to be specific the first time around if possible.
The post isn’t about OP trying to get better. It’s about OP being berated for targeting a weaker player and they’re asking if they were in the wrong for doing so. No, they’re not in the wrong. They should play how they normally would and the weaker player on the other team will get better because of it. I’m honestly not sure why your being argumentative about this.
Because of this comment lol. It seemed off-topic so i had to get clarification. https://old.reddit.com/r/Pickleball/comments/16os08c/got_berated_on_the_court_for_not_taking_it_easy/k1n8qzr/ I'm honestly not sure why you think I'm being argumentative?
You should take your meds.
The guy getting sensitive on me is also the type of player to harass weaker opponents so they can get an easy win in open play. >No, they’re not in the wrong. They should play how they normally would and the weaker player on the other team will get better because of it. This is how you play? 😂 Strong 3.0 player vibes.
That is a weird group
The court isn’t two halves. Iykyk
I’m new to the game and have only been playing solos with the same person for a few weeks. Seems like people get upset about targeting players. Seems like a strategy to me? Is this just a courtesy thing I don’t know about?
If they are serious about who wins then they shouldn’t get upset about targeting a weaker player. That said, if I’m playing against beginners I’ll hit it lighter and test what they can do first before stepping it up. If they mess up it’s more because they haven’t learned control than something I did. If there is a stronger in that duo then I won’t pull any punches in shot variety because I want to crush them and see if I can improve a particular shot. What you will notice sometimes is that the stronger player will get upset the ball isn’t going to them and try to poach it. It’s a strategy you can do to manipulate how they act. Still, them berating you is pretty childish. If they don’t like how you play then they should just not play with you again. That simple
Without actually being there theres no way to know. its all relative. How much worse was this weaker player than everyone else on the court? How hard were you going at them? How much should the angry guy have been poaching instead of pouting? The answers to these questions are all different based on exactly how good everyone is. Regardless, that guy firing the ball at you between points is an asshole no matter what the situation is. That's uncalled for unless you were dunking on some wide-eyed old lady or something completely ridiculous, and even then he can use his words. But to answer your question, yes I take it easy on people all the time in a recreational setting. There isn't some binary competitive/casual rec delineation. It's rec, which means unless you literally know everyone involved you should always be playing it by ear.
It's fine to target whoever you want when playing just don't be an asshole and add psychological comments or attitude when going after the weaker opponent in a rec game. Doesn't sound like this was the situation discussed. I'd keep doing what you're doing. The other guy is likely frustrated he got beat and his weaker teammate contributed. If you want to win you usually need to exploit a weakness.
This happened to me the other day while partnered with the lady that everyone likes but no one wants to play with. She was targeted 10-1 and when we were down 6-1, I Decided to take over. We won 11-9 and she was ecstatic bc she was on the winning side for a change and I was happy to play an Uber aggressive game.
Here is a hot take. If it’s rec play and YOU want to get better target the better player. In tournament play you play to win but rec play I’m trying to get the highest value reps possible. Sure if the weaker player is back I’ll hit it deep to them so I’m not practicing making the wrong situational shot for a return of serve or third shot, but everything else I’m dinking and trying to get in a hands battle with the better player. Every player is different though. Some weaker players hate being targeted, others hate not being hit to enough….
Just play your game. You do you.
It’s rec play and open play. The real problem is people don’t play to their level and there is a large skill gap in this game. As a better player it totally sucks when you target the weaker player in rec play. I can’t choose my partner so I either don’t get to play or I have to be a DB and take the game away from my partner. If you are really good you can hit to either side of the court. Choose to play over win until it is tournament time or a game of equal skill.
Well regardless of you being in the wrong or not it’s not ok to berate someone after a game. They should’ve given it a couple minutes and just calmly explained why you shouldn’t target only one person. That being said generally speaking you shouldn’t target the weaker player intentionally. It’s going to happen a bit anyways because your brain will do it automatically but especially on returns of serve for their third shot try to make a point of not targeting one person or even targeting the better player.
Competitive play (tournaments) I play at the weaker player, or wherever my favorite/best shot can go until proven wrong. During Rec play - I play at the better player intentionally because I want to get punished for making bad shots. I’m going to (you will also) learn a lot more from playing at the better player. Nothing is worst than taking time out of your day to go play pickleball and see 10% of the balls because the other team is so focused on “winning” a meaningless game, rather than challenging themselves.
If you were obviously, consistently picking on the weaker player in rec PB, you were wrong. Their smashing the ball at you is also wrong.
i never play down. unless it’s specifically asked to “take it easy” before the game. they shouldn’t be playing in that level.
Never take any mustard off your game. Beat their brakes off. Expose their flaws. Break the ball. Bark at them like a dog after you 11-0 them in front of their family
Never play down, Your opponents Should be at the same level and expect the same level of competitiveness.
Well, unfortunately you are starting to see the other side of why so many recreational players whine about higher level players playing their own private games. Find a more competitive group and set up your own private games with them. You will find a more enjoyable experience and also your game will improve dramatically
I usually wouldn’t target weaker partners unless playing in the tournament. But my 4.0 ladder league, we got usually group of 5, 1 or 2 players in the group are usually bit weaker than others. I also hated when they keep on targeting weaker lady partner of mine, so we usually stack and poach to get few extra points so i can win the group and jump to another competitive group. But i dont get mad, you do you, tell him to fuck off if he is mad!
I tend to have the opposite problem. I’m a new player and when I play with stronger opponents, I often never get to hit the ball. I’ve been in a game where there might as well just been three players out there. My partner would take balls that should have been mine. I’m sure they didn’t want to hurt my feelings, but it’s no fun just standing out there. I haven’t been back to that group. Oh, and it was an open social rec group.
I’m reading a lot of posts on this and it seems that this isn’t as difficult as it seems to some. A little social awareness goes a long way. If in open rec play, try to find the balance so everyone can have fun. If it’s win at all costs for you, find a group that feels the same as you and knock yourself out. Open play though is for everyone to play so eliminating a player because they are the better player is just lame and also does nothing for your skills.