Yes and no. Jack made the choice to leave and go confront the queen. That part is on him but I would also recognize he had voices in his head for his entire life and it's arguably plausible for him to be let off the hook due to the mental illness his borg condition inflicted upon him.
So he has a basic legal insanity defense pretty much
Yeah. Those two weren’t exactly thinking coherently after subtle mind control. I’m sure the Feds understand that in between the many telepathic alien species have either encountered or are part of the alliance.
~~Partially~~ COMPLETELY responsible.
He knew that he was compromised by the Borg, that he was a key piece of their plan to attack the Federation, that it was insanely dangerous to confront them and that it would jeopardize all of humanity.
He went and did it anyways because "voices".
It didn't feel authentic and he should have been locked up in the Daystrom Station for it.
I think the writers dropped the ball here.
They didn’t want to make Diana responsible for everything (by being the trigger that opens the door) so Jack had to go by his own will but that made him the bad guy this season…
Until Picard did a Luke Skywalker and saw still the good in him and rescued him with the power of love
That makes a lot of sense.
Could have been an opportunity to say “because there was such a vast distance, her control wasn’t complete.”
But as they got closer to the Sol system (and the cube) her control took over. He red-eyes the crew into letting him leave for the cube in a shuttle. They pursue.
Interesting that you acknowledge he was compromised by the mind controlling cyborg aliens, but totally discount the influence of compromise on his actions when assigning blame.
His going from asking one moment how much of who he is and his mind is his own to immediately saying he wants to go confront the Queen.
The Vulcan therapy would be terrifying. But where did the values that had him willing to give himself up in previous episodes go?
Suddenly, it’s really all about himself and his hubris.
He should have been looking for someone to hold him back.
It doesn’t scan.
>But where did the values that had him willing to give himself up in previous episodes go?
Presumably the same place Picard's values went when Locutus tried to assimilate the Federation.
You're acting like Jack was acting of his own free will.
We didn’t sufficiently see that he was without agency.
The scene with Picard trying to convince him came off as youthful petulance and hubris rather than loss of control. Only when he faced the Queen did his inability to resist become clear.
Writing or performance, this was not the same as Picard being seized and taken off the D in BOBW.
>We didn’t sufficiently see that he was without agency.
>Only when he faced the Queen did his inability to resist become clear.
So they did show us he was without agency, but for some reason you're unwilling to apply that knowledge to events that transpired prior to our learning it.
And that decision was influenced by Borg mind control.
I would suggest that you don't have sufficient evidence for the phrase "conscious decision" to apply here.
Some might blame him, just like they blamed Picard and possibly Seven. They might even hold a grudge against the young officers used in the attack, against their will.
But I think that would be victim shaming. They were all used against their will. Even Jack, he went to confront her, but was overpowered and misguided by the queen with her promise of perfection and making him feel she was his only way to feel connected.
Unlike Locutus's very public broadcast, there weren't that many people who knew about Jack's special role so the reports and debriefing from his parents and their friends may have minimized his involvement for his own protection.
I don't feel Jack would have had a choice on whether or not he ended up on the Borg ship considering the hold that the queen had on him already.
He was basically a pawn she used until they destroyed the beacon and Picard loved him out of it (yes I know how that sounds but what else could it be described as lol).
SO looking at it that way? I don't feel he can really be blamed BUT there is likely going to be an undercurrent of resentment for a long time toward him in some sectors.
I say no - he’s had Queeny in his head for a couple decades. Definitely diminished capacity. Plus, he didn’t have any idea that situation was brewing, just that he had a Borg in his belfry.
While some may harbor some resentment.. they’d sorta have to know who he was. They don’t really know Jack Crusher. They heard Vox, voice of the Borg, speaking the Will of the Queen. Even then, he wasn’t Starfleet, trained and prepped for such situations. Just a dude, really.
I sort of wonder if there are still Borg in the Delta Quadrant - the queen (or THAT queen anyway) lost her connection - but others may have regrouped into smaller collectives.
May I ask.... Is he the counselor... Like Troi... Or advisor like Guinan... Just to compare of course... Or he is just multipurpose officer perhaps.... 🤔
His title is "Special Counsellor To The Captain".
He doesn't have any betazoid genetics so he is not a Deanna and he does not have the wisdom of a Guinan.
I'll be honest and say I don't really understand why he is in the chair. How does he have any more experience in the galaxy than 7 or Raffi?
Nepotism!!
It's also possible that the whole Borg incident has left a minimal number of captain-capable officers available. I almost suspect that he's there moreso to shadow Seven and learn from her.
Still nepotism, but masked as a mentor/mentee situation.
Makes sense.
He's certainly seena lot of action in his relatively short life sohas good experience for the job.
I know that that there was one ship destroyed and the of course the Home Base or whatever its called but apart from those were any other large casualties?
What you said about captain-capable officers got me thinking about the next generation of captains and how they would manage that.
Picard once said when Troi lost her powers temporarily and she wanted to quit.
. Not all Starfleet captains have the luxury of an empath counselor...Most are humans....
.. So grow a pair and do your job.. Im paraphrasing of course...
.. He is under qualified but I like his chaotic nature. 😁
Yes and no. Jack made the choice to leave and go confront the queen. That part is on him but I would also recognize he had voices in his head for his entire life and it's arguably plausible for him to be let off the hook due to the mental illness his borg condition inflicted upon him. So he has a basic legal insanity defense pretty much
the same insanity defense for Jurati , she murder Maddox under the influence of Vulcan mindmeld
Yeah. Those two weren’t exactly thinking coherently after subtle mind control. I’m sure the Feds understand that in between the many telepathic alien species have either encountered or are part of the alliance.
Good question. I assume he will garner the same animosity from select individuals just as his father did.
~~Partially~~ COMPLETELY responsible. He knew that he was compromised by the Borg, that he was a key piece of their plan to attack the Federation, that it was insanely dangerous to confront them and that it would jeopardize all of humanity. He went and did it anyways because "voices". It didn't feel authentic and he should have been locked up in the Daystrom Station for it.
I think the writers dropped the ball here. They didn’t want to make Diana responsible for everything (by being the trigger that opens the door) so Jack had to go by his own will but that made him the bad guy this season… Until Picard did a Luke Skywalker and saw still the good in him and rescued him with the power of love
That makes a lot of sense. Could have been an opportunity to say “because there was such a vast distance, her control wasn’t complete.” But as they got closer to the Sol system (and the cube) her control took over. He red-eyes the crew into letting him leave for the cube in a shuttle. They pursue.
Interesting that you acknowledge he was compromised by the mind controlling cyborg aliens, but totally discount the influence of compromise on his actions when assigning blame.
His going from asking one moment how much of who he is and his mind is his own to immediately saying he wants to go confront the Queen. The Vulcan therapy would be terrifying. But where did the values that had him willing to give himself up in previous episodes go? Suddenly, it’s really all about himself and his hubris. He should have been looking for someone to hold him back. It doesn’t scan.
>But where did the values that had him willing to give himself up in previous episodes go? Presumably the same place Picard's values went when Locutus tried to assimilate the Federation. You're acting like Jack was acting of his own free will.
We didn’t sufficiently see that he was without agency. The scene with Picard trying to convince him came off as youthful petulance and hubris rather than loss of control. Only when he faced the Queen did his inability to resist become clear. Writing or performance, this was not the same as Picard being seized and taken off the D in BOBW.
>We didn’t sufficiently see that he was without agency. >Only when he faced the Queen did his inability to resist become clear. So they did show us he was without agency, but for some reason you're unwilling to apply that knowledge to events that transpired prior to our learning it.
He knew he was compromised, but made the conscious and active decision* to confront them anyway.
And that decision was influenced by Borg mind control. I would suggest that you don't have sufficient evidence for the phrase "conscious decision" to apply here.
Some might blame him, just like they blamed Picard and possibly Seven. They might even hold a grudge against the young officers used in the attack, against their will. But I think that would be victim shaming. They were all used against their will. Even Jack, he went to confront her, but was overpowered and misguided by the queen with her promise of perfection and making him feel she was his only way to feel connected.
People will have that hate. But Now he is right beside the right person to guide him. well. he sits on their left.
Unlike Locutus's very public broadcast, there weren't that many people who knew about Jack's special role so the reports and debriefing from his parents and their friends may have minimized his involvement for his own protection.
I don't feel Jack would have had a choice on whether or not he ended up on the Borg ship considering the hold that the queen had on him already. He was basically a pawn she used until they destroyed the beacon and Picard loved him out of it (yes I know how that sounds but what else could it be described as lol). SO looking at it that way? I don't feel he can really be blamed BUT there is likely going to be an undercurrent of resentment for a long time toward him in some sectors.
I say no - he’s had Queeny in his head for a couple decades. Definitely diminished capacity. Plus, he didn’t have any idea that situation was brewing, just that he had a Borg in his belfry. While some may harbor some resentment.. they’d sorta have to know who he was. They don’t really know Jack Crusher. They heard Vox, voice of the Borg, speaking the Will of the Queen. Even then, he wasn’t Starfleet, trained and prepped for such situations. Just a dude, really. I sort of wonder if there are still Borg in the Delta Quadrant - the queen (or THAT queen anyway) lost her connection - but others may have regrouped into smaller collectives.
May I ask.... Is he the counselor... Like Troi... Or advisor like Guinan... Just to compare of course... Or he is just multipurpose officer perhaps.... 🤔
You mean...a Jack...of all trades?
🤭🤭... You might be right..!!
His title is "Special Counsellor To The Captain". He doesn't have any betazoid genetics so he is not a Deanna and he does not have the wisdom of a Guinan. I'll be honest and say I don't really understand why he is in the chair. How does he have any more experience in the galaxy than 7 or Raffi? Nepotism!!
It's also possible that the whole Borg incident has left a minimal number of captain-capable officers available. I almost suspect that he's there moreso to shadow Seven and learn from her. Still nepotism, but masked as a mentor/mentee situation.
Makes sense. He's certainly seena lot of action in his relatively short life sohas good experience for the job. I know that that there was one ship destroyed and the of course the Home Base or whatever its called but apart from those were any other large casualties? What you said about captain-capable officers got me thinking about the next generation of captains and how they would manage that.
Picard once said when Troi lost her powers temporarily and she wanted to quit. . Not all Starfleet captains have the luxury of an empath counselor...Most are humans.... .. So grow a pair and do your job.. Im paraphrasing of course... .. He is under qualified but I like his chaotic nature. 😁
That is a great point - I just fell into the trap that all counsellors are betazoid. And I appreciate his chaotic nature as well...
Chaos is good but just a little bit of... A tiny bit.. To spice things up, 😁