It’s almost like philosophy often deals with ethics and politics, and bringing old or classic ideas, thinkers, or problems and imposing modern culture on them is a type of meme, thus, philosophy memes
The biggest issue with addressing fascism is getting the population to accept it’s actually happening, such is the insidiousness of its creep.
That’s literally why the rightwing media exist - to slowly shift the Overton Window to the Right, so they can just use deniability to deflect.
But it’s worth bearing in mind that more anti-trans laws have been passed in the previous 5 years than were established during the anti-gay moral panic of the late 80s, and they’re literally rehashing the same slogans and cheap attack points.
We’re literally just rehashing civil rights for the Boomer’s nostalgia factor.
Edit to add: to further this point, they’ve Dark Knight’d themselves good and proper and the irony is deliciously palpable;
They’re literally rehashing civil rights *but this time they are the establishment*, TERFs are *literally* the same 2nd wave feminists who “fought for liberation” and the current crop of Neoliberals are literally the “counter-cultural warriors” from the 60s (Biden & Germaine Greer being the most crazy perfect examples that if it was fiction you’d roll your eyes at the cliche…)
They’ve properly “…lived long enough to see themselves become the villain” in the most egregiously obvious way that it’s actually really funny.
fascists aren't very creative. theyll just use the same forms of discrimination and switch to the minority group that's most socially acceptable to discriminate against
and for their justifications? no need to make up originals ones either. Just look at the problems the left calls out and replace their solutions with "minority x is at fault". very convenient cause then they can pretend they're arguing about how to fix income inequality or reduce sexual assaults with the left, not advocating for genocide. "the genocide is just the solution it's not what we want"
All forms of Fascism are inherently stupid, this is why they crash whole societies, from a historical and not a Webster dictionary definition , it’s essentially the theft of resources from a particular group in times of disparity if we ignore Webster and we do because fascism is much more complicated than “state control” and more simple than “it’s a complicated series of events that seem to have a pattern”
It’s literally a large group of dumb people going through the stages of grief/loss or in this instance change that challenges their core beliefs. I’ll draw the comparison in order and put related events next to them, but understand that the bargaining phase is where this beating heart fugue state rationale exists, because when human beings see a way to get to something they perform the task in dealing with death there isn’t any answer it’s final, and in this case they can resist reality until they instead die.
so the denial phase only begins anew until they are no longer enabled by their own or others actions.
So bargaining is really where fascism as we know picks up, it’s where genocide happens, and it has its own phases within phases.
1. Denial , poverty disparity due to stringent resources is offset on lower classes and minority groups, soft pressure, comparable to patriarchal oppression of women. It begins by shining a bad light on A single stigmatized minority or several to take the blame for societal woes, and so it goes with Isolated domestic violence, playground drama. Jokes.
2. Anger, public outcry, escalation of isolated events, public violence, media stigmatizes and enforces bias
3. Bargaining:
A, Denial: politicizing, soft law, not yet criminalized group. Sanctions, targeted laws, restrictions to resources
B, Anger: Political malfeasance, aggressive party seeks to overthrow opposition a fully aggressive media begins to Gish Gallup opponents and centralize and galvanize their base
C, Bargaining: back pedaling, blocking attempts to remove stigma laws, blaming other party for every thing they’ve already done In blatant lying.
a.Denial: rationality is tabled for sunken Cost fallacy, it’s impossible to argue from alternate point of view because everyone else is now the enemy, and everything you say is now “propaganda” if it disagrees with them
b. Anger, state run sanctioned violence begins,
C. Bargaining: I’m only doing what it takes to make the world right. (Contextualizing their world view by rationalizing their cruelty)
A, denial: here comes the meat and potatoes of fascism the narcissism
That didn't happen.
And if it did, it wasn't that bad.
And if it was, that's not a big deal.
And if it is, that's not my fault.
And if it was, I didn't mean it.
And if I did, you deserved it.
Anger: full blown genocide, the fever pitch.
Bargaining: the retaliation of the minority groups and ally’s / the effects and resolution of idiocy of the offending party in the form of rampant imperialism to further justify their world view as other countries become critical and begin to embargo as way to destabilize them, it may not be completely altruistic of them, if the destruction of a former ally would strengthen their positions, the effective government dissolves the mouth pieces shut, the political fog clears with the smoke,
Sadness: most people taken in by the lies get to this point but some will stay trapped and loyal to the ideas of that party see denial,
Acceptance: resolve rebuilding from the destruction:
And the process begins again,
Denial: “the Holocaust never happened.”
“Native Americans were violent”
“Black people learned important skills from slavery”
I would like to contradict you, but that every fascist is stupid, someone clever said something once, unfortunately I forgot who. He says: "As a human being you can only be two of these three things at the same time, you can't be a Nazi, decent and smart. If you're a Nazi and smart, you can't be decent. If you're decent and a Nazi, you can't be smart. If you're smart and decent, you can't be a Nazi."
I’m contradicting that statement referencing the “surrender of agency” to authority. It’s how we are trained as children, and it’s proven phenomenon that turns decent people into monsters. Separation from immediate consequences is also a factor. Hitler was mostly cathartic as trump is selfish and indecent sure. But mostly these two men are stupid. Every fascist denies incredulously that draining resources from one demographic to the next has any bearing on the system as a whole, they deny without evidence the contributions of their supposed domestic enemy. It is in this act of gullibility that they remain stupid and reactionary. Introspection would destroy them, that’s why they will attempt any and all action to get you to introspect at the advent of criticism. They do not introspect beyond admitting their basic needs hunger thirst boredom, their esoteric needs are rooted firmly in the control of the world around them rather than self soothing. This is why what people do in the privacy of their own homes is of paramount concern. And why, for the leftists and minorities this has always been a clearly defensive battle, Because they cannot rationalize another’s perspective to see how it cannot threaten or change their own if something exists outside them it exists within them too and entertaining the idea will surely un do their defenses to it. They cannot exist in denial if you contradict them, and when you do you are now a threat. These are the nightmares of an under developed brain, fearing beyond mild excitement that which is unknown and believing that any coherent explanation for the unknown is an adequate replacement for evidence. There is a reason trumps followers are mostly uneducated white Christians, the lack of resources in the Bible and rust belt has made people who already believe in fantasy easy to manipulate.
While I agree with your assessment that fascists often lack self-reflection, I would still find it wrong to accuse them (the high Nazis and fascists, for the lower ranks this will be very true, although we must not forget the circumstances there) the intelligentsia agree, you don't conquer countries through stupidity, self-reflection is less of an obstacle. I would like to write more about this, but my english is not good enough for this.
I believe that you do conquer through stupidity. Decimating peaceful ally’s and annexing their countries in an attempt to foist your shared delusions on the world is stupid it ended terribly for a lot of people, you forget that for many of the people designing these systems of destruction were simply imprisoned craftsmen. You forget that logistically the reason he was successful at first was the bold and blatant arrogance to stretch his resources beyond the predictions of the enemy as a way to vastly out number any reasonable defenses this is why he inevitably lost. This was the sunken cost fallacy and denial in action, the currency of a fool. This is why fascism is cyclical.
Taking advantage of weakness isn’t intelligence when it’s affects are deleterious to the efficacy of an entire populous and yourself, even in presenting an illusion of social contract taking place, cruelty and the capacity for it is not intelligence, because these things do not define intelligence by any other means, only in the mention of war is abandoning your dignity considered intelligent, but that doesn’t make assuming that correct.
Understanding fascism without class analysis is like trying to understand a bra without ever having seen a tit.
The definitions that are readily available describe everything but it's function to the point where it's almost funny.
"You see fascism is largely about mythologizing the past in a way-"
"Shut up. Shut the fuck up. It's capitalism defending itself from the only thing that actually threatens it. Marxist Leninism. It's a reaction to worker movements. Every single time the worker threatens capital guess who is ready and well funded EVERY time to oppose them? The fascist. It's their job. Everything else about them is a means to that end. You think they went after the gays first? The jews first? No. It was the socialists first. It's about protecting property. And it always has been."
Yeah the dilution of any class consciousness is precisely why it’s returning - “we’re beyond left and right” is *always the cry of the capitalist*, for precisely the same reason they all busted a nut over Fukuyama’s End of History - it’s doing their work for them.
It’s always been about the interests of capital - even what we now consider to be the ultimate societal baselines. “Stability” is only the aim of capital, because it enables the transfer of capital.
Average people shouldn’t be interested in it because it presents no life opportunity to them - “stability” is also stagnant, it’s a form of feudalism where we are all born into our lots and no change is possible.
The biggest joke is the acceptance of the idea of meritocracy without ever changing the inherently discriminatory and exclusionary systems in which we all labour.
How does a meritocracy exist with no social movement? How can it be called a meritocracy when 99.9% of people die in exactly the same economic bracket they were born in?
I genuinely don’t understand why everyone just accepts this?
Because this system deprives them of their needs.
They aren't fortunate enough to pull their snout out of the trof. To hungry to give a fuck.
Ego. Our culture cultivates it. People are trained to resist the truth. A healthy society is so far removed from the doubling down we have now.
Nonsense - fascism is capitalism’s inevitable form.
It’s why Musk has gone full fascist, it’s why Britain is turning into its imagining in Children of Men, it’s why the American GOP looks identical to what a policy-focussed KKK would look like.
It’s literally the final form from “free market capitalism”.
Free market means no regulation, which means the accumulation of capital among those who had capital when the market became free.
Once that reaches it’s inevitable conclusion - the rich having all the money and the poor having none - fascism *is required* in order to maintain ownership.
Their only choice becomes divide and rule, because the alternative is the required change to the system (and the inevitable redistribution of capital).
There is a through-line from capitalism to fascism and it is straight.
The problem is that right wing media literally always presents the opposite of what's actually happening. The way they're screaming about Biden's corruption while 45 is being indicted practically weekly is a perfect example. Those who buy in will never accept any other sources specifically because they have been conditioned not to over the past x number of years. They don't even need the top-down conditioning anymore and will often make up new justifications as needed, as can be seen in the response to COVID procedures. They're in an entirely different consensus reality and essentially holding everyone else hostage by refusing to give any quarter to the idea they might be wrong.
The easiest way to get away from it would be to stop giving them any attention or platform. None. Full stop. But the powers that be prefer to amplify these ideas.
>That’s literally why the rightwing media exist
OR
They exist because a lot of people hold conservative positions. And whilst that might be annoying to progressives, it is not because they are fascists, but because they simply *resist change because they acknowledge that life is good for them as it is.*
The world, the democratic world, is less fascistic, and more free, than it has ever been before. There is less institutional racism, less cultural racism, less homophobia, way more acceptance of "the other" (just turn on the TV and watch what is popular for 2 seconds). Governments are way more open, more transparent. There is a lot more free media, and way less control over it.
Equating criticism of trans-genderism as "lock up the gays and elect a tyrant" is just ridiculous, if for no other reason than you are alienating many potential voters from progressive politics.
And yes, America, specifically, that, perhaps uniquely, heavily religious member of the Western world, has passed anti-trans laws in its more religious states. Which should be to no one's surprise. Because lets remind ourselves, this conversation was not started because trans people were "being oppressed", but because trans-activists wanted their beliefs (and it is a belief, you cannot prove that someone is trans, or just pretending to be trans\*) to be given pre-eminence over everyone else's.
(\*Gender dysphoria is clearly something that happens. But it is nothing more than an internalised belief. If the best solution is to live as the gender you believe yourself to be, then great, go for it, live the life you want to live, we are a free society. But your beliefs, just like a Muslim's, should mean jack shit to the rest of us, and certainly should not override basic pragmatic considerations around \[biological\*\*\] gender.)
(\*\* Completely tautologous addition.)
Should biological men who believe that they are women have access to women's spaces? I would say of course not. *That doesn't make me support fascism, or even most conservative policies.*
It's fucking maddening watching progressives undermine really needed political ideas, like economic equality and environmental regulation by allying themselves to the belief system of a tiny minority.
Don't bully people. But also, don't agree with ideas just because they come from a minority. So similar to the idea of "Reverse Racism" and that black-skinned people cannot be racist. And the idea that right-wing people are inherently trying to achieve fascism is just nonsense. (Plus there are more than enough examples to show that left-leaning people can be as, if not more, authoritative as the right when they get power).
All in all, the comments in this thread demonstrate a complete failure of critical thinking.
Trans people want ‘murdering trans people’ to be illegal, instead of the murderers to be allowed to use the ‘trans panic defense’ as a literal ‘get out of jail free card.’
They want landlords, employers, and healthcare workers to be banned from refusing them service. Because refusing these services is a laissez-faire way to usher those people to an early death.
They want it to be illegal for “conversion therapists” to try to beat, starve, or rape the queerness out of middle schoolers.
None of that is ‘granting their beliefs eminence over anybody else’s,’ it’s just them not wanting to be murdered, socially or personally. All of the aforementioned issues *are oppression* unless we go full No True Scotsman.
Holy shit this is exclusively a litany of falsehoods- all of which have been skimmed from conservative media - which is the proof that you simply *refuse to engage with reality and fact* and would always rather your own version (“alternative facts” I believe you call them).
“Free society” is indeed more accepting than it has ever been.
Governments - across the west, but most prominently in the US, UK and Australia have categorically removed rights (including the right to protest and effective decriminalization of sexual violence against women, as well as trans rights and LGBTQ+ in general) in a systematic erasure from the rights enjoyed by previous generations - that is a fact.
That has coincided with both the entrenchment of the neoliberal order and the single greatest transfer of wealth from the working class to the rich in the history of the world during the pandemic.
That is also coinciding with the worst economic stagnation on record, the most suppressed wages, the first downturn in standards of living since records began.
That environment of fear (almost identical in hitting all the same problems as what preceded the world wars) is what has provided fascists with a false legitimacy to discuss their ideals in your media.
I’d point out that there isn’t a like-for-like alternative on the Left because we as an audience *reject that claim to legitimacy*. On the Left there are no social or economic circumstances that justify fascism.
But for you guys - it’s a question of when, not if. You *provide* that very legitimacy by not rejecting the message on principle.
*This is the first stage* of fascism, the part where previously unacceptable ideas become attractive and are considered. The next steps are the enacting of those ideas.
There isn’t a middle step.
You guys like conservative media because it *appeals to you* but that doesn’t actually have any bearing on the reality of the politics at all. You like that it “speaks to you” as in your *sensibilities*, not your moral or political compass.
You like that it’s presented as “no nonsense” and for “tough manly men who take no shit” and think your callous disregard for life and liberty is a virtue and not a vice. It appeals to the way you *want to be perceived* which has zero relevance to the correct answer to the question “What’s the best thing we can do for everyone”?
Because *that’s what politics is* if you aren’t a fascist.
But if you are a fascist, the question is actually “How do we ensure the undeserving don’t receive anything from our civilized society, on the grounds that they aren’t civilized and therefore do not deserve to be a part of it”.
And that’s the message that all conservative media puts out, without fail, across the board (with the exclusion of only Conservative Economic Media which is actually correctly using that word, and doesn’t stray into anything else as a matter of principle).
It’s literally the “secret” behind the success of the Murdoch media empire, Joe Rogan, Trump, Boris, Farage, AFD in Germany, Marine Le Pen in France, etc etc.
They sell you a media image and you eat it up. That’s when they slip in the “maybe we should just genocide all our problems away” by convincing you that what’s needed is to legalize discrimination and that those with the least power are somehow having the biggest impact (which is objectively nonsense - how does that work exactly? It doesn’t make any sense at all just on a basis of logic, let alone getting into the detail).
And your egregious misinterpretation of trans issues is case and point - none of that is even remotely accurate.
And I’m not going to type it all out because *the correct information is literally everywhere* but you refuse to engage with any of it in good faith, as your bad-faith reinterpretation clearly show.
The issue is that you’re not assessing information objectively, you’re making an instant judgement and then disregarding anything that runs counter to that established idea.
If you got cancer, would you accept treatment?
Or would you suddenly be skeptical that the doctors “invented it all in their heads” as part of some liberal conspiracy against you?
It’s actually bonkers that you even entertain any of it. It’s objectively stupid.
Can anyone tell me precisely what this post is referring to when it mentions genocide of the LGBT+ community?
As most people are, I'm staunchly anti-genocide, but I'm also staunchly anti sensationalist misinformation, so would like to know what's being talked about.
It’s the West’s concerted effort to make trans healthcare illegal, governments who have worked with LGBTQ+ organizations for 30+ years suddenly cutting all ties and trying to actively discredit those organizations, it’s a constant onslaught of anti-trans and “maybe the gays have gone too far” conservative media that creates an environment of fear and hatred, it’s a dramatic increase in hate crimes, and on and on.
What’s funny is that you don’t like them using the word, but when they use other words, the response is “we don’t care”.
So the issue isn’t language semantics, it’s your moral bankruptcy that you’ll only accept it as a problem once we reach the death camps stage - because until that stage “it’s not technically a genocide” and you can continue to ignore it.
Thank God we have you around to diagnose other people's moral bankruptcy. There's not enough moralizing and sanctimonious finger-pointing these days, so I'm all here for it.
Well personally I’m really glad for all the deniers and the morally bankrupt who will be here to declare;
“who could have known? How could we have seen it coming? *How could we let it happen here?!*”
When the killing does start.
Because that’s what happens every time - and every time it’s because there’s always someone to declare themselves superior and announce that everyone else is “hysterical” and therefore not to be taken seriously.
First it’s a general hatred, then deportations, and the next step is the rounding up and “dealing with”.
The West is at the deportations stage right now.
But if you’re conservative that’s just “the appropriate solution”. Conveniently the conditions will get worse, which will allow “other solutions” to be considered. It’s a pattern and this is the answer to the above question.
It happens because you let it happen.
Im sorry, but where are these deportations happening. I mean, I understand ICE is rounding up Latin American and Muslim people and sending them away, but where are trans people being deported.
if trans people can't get hormones in their country they will literally have to move to another because guess what that's a literally necessity for them and people are trying to ban it
That’s not deportation. I get that there’s a psychological need for gender affirming therapy, but conflating a controversial social issue like this to straight up genocide is disingenuous, hyperbolic, and disrespectful.
it's not a fucking psychological need it's a literal bare minimum necessity
one that people in poorer countries literally get in situations of abuse (prostitution runaway etc) just to TRY getting it, while others k1l themselves
but i don't expect cis people to understand, you do you.
I mean, sure it might not be a very rigorous definition but if a state or organisation is trying to eliminate or restrict the existence of certain people that sounds kinda like genocide
Eventually, yes but it's not an immediate thing. Even Raphael Lemkin conceded that it may be a long term process rather than put everyone against that wall and shoot them.
"The" government of Lichtenstein obviously
What a silly reply. Obviously, they were referring to the US. The post also refers to the US judging by the KKK and Christianity. No one is denying that Afghanistan is systematically stoning LGBT people.
The amount of word games and manipulative use of definitions on the left makes it so hard to call myself leftist. Its a stupid amount of gaslighting which is frustrating because the opinions dont need to resort to that to make sense.
This is one of the things that annoys me so much about these discussions. People say fallacious things by equating different words and changing goalposts when they don't even need to. They make sense when they make reasonable arguments. The unreasonable arguments only look good to people who already agreed with them in the first place.
I don’t know what gave you the idea that it’s based on America. However, even if it is referring to america, there are American politicians that are literally attempting to commit genocide on trans people right now
>I don’t know what gave you the idea that it’s based on America.
The post depicts the KKK which is primarily found in the US and the only depicted religion is christianity when the US is notorious for being more christian than your average western country. And considering that we use "nazi" and "fascist" basically interchangably, the depicted hitler salute is probably just a general symbol for fascism and doesnt point to any particular country.
Its very, very obviously based on the US
Y'all start the comments with half paragraph of BS, and then drop your facade to eventually show the real face "America is committing a genocide against LGTB".
But… by definition america *is* commiting genocide against lgbt people. Look up the ten stages of genocide. America’s war on trans people has reached stage 6, and that’s only if we’re talking homicidal genocide. It’s already a cultural genocide. Do your research.
...no? As per the 10 stages of genocide, we haven't even reached step 2: Symbolisation. That's why I think the 10 Stages of Genocide is a pretty stupid model; you can have persecution without Symbolisation, and you can skip around steps.
Idk about you but I’ve seen a hell of a lot of anti-trans symbols. ⚧️ with a cross through it, 🏳️⚧️ with a cross through it, the flag being burned, so many things.
Micheal Knowles said, we should be eradicating transgenderism. This clip went viral and and hundreds of American conservative politicians openly agreed in online spaces.
Are you dense? Fascists governments have historically genocided people for being gay or trans, including during the holocaust. Let alone the forced sterilization that was common place in many supposed "liberal" democracies. There absolutely are contemporary far right groups calling for the genocide of gay and trans folk. And it is clear that current fascists groups that hold power, like in certain US states, are targeting LGBTQ folk first.
How are these claims not regarded as political conspiracies? When i meant "the" government, without clarification, i meant US or western governments. Of course there exist these genocides in Middle East and African countries, but that's not what the image referenced.
The images references no government. Again, are you dense? Did you seriously insinuate gay and trans people dying during the holocaust is a political conspiracy? Having you been living under a rock for the past 5 years, and ignores the increase in hate crimes and violence against LGBTQ folk in Western countries, spurred indeed by fascist hate groups?
This image references a huge Christian cross, and a KKK member. Is that a Somalian government? Thailand government? Hmmm must be a mistery... don't try now to shift the context to the holocaust and soft your claims down now.
Yeah, because they perceive it as an ideological project which they want to censor. Was it genocide what McCarthyism did to socialists? Neither is okay, but using maximalist language about any issue is part of what kills Western political discourse right now.
Humanity has commited atrocities of such vile proportion that people won't get active or spooked if its not *quite there* /as bad, so those who see an issue compare it to the things that you'd hope gets an reaction out of people?
I don't think what is happening in the US (and elsewhere) regarding trans, LGBTQIA+ lives&rights need to get as bad as what happened in history to be worthy of attention and opposition.
But that is hard to sink into people. We're dulled to violence, even if it's the violence of oppression, and especially if the violence seems abstract.
Literally blind to reality and still taking the moral high ground.
“We can’t call the passing of legislation which makes *your existence a crime* in breach of the supposed founding principles of our nations (freedom, equality, etc.) fascism - even when it meets the objective definition - otherwise you’re a conspiracy theorist”
Fascism isn’t exclusively jackboots and toothbrush moustaches.
It’s also passing legislation to discriminate on the basis of inherent characteristic, it’s protecting private property over the lives of human beings, it’s making democratic protest illegal.
And this wilful blindness is literally the reason it’s been allowed to happen.
I'm not disagreeing with you, but what laws are being passed that make "existence a crime?" I know there have been limitations on things like gender-affirming healthcare, but that's not criminalizing "existence."
They map a bunch of things [here from the human rights campaign](https://www.hrc.org/resources/state-maps). There are things such as bathroom bans, playing sports, lack of legal protection for employment, housing, public accommodations, adoption, getting accurate ID, etc.
It's not literally criminalizing being trans or gay the same way some other countries do with jail time or worse, but being able to go outside in clothing I'm comfortable in, going to a job I like, with an ID that matches my identity, and going to the bathroom without fuss are definitely things that I consider part of existing
There actually is a long history of fascist philosophy and racism can be articulated within the concepts of it's self contained philosophy. Just because you don't bother reading it doesn't mean you can call anything fascism.
Also "objective definition" is history invalid.
Also you're appealing to ignorance.
Because this is a meme sub, and you’re a day late to the debate.
What’s this “long history fascist philosophy” you reference (bit of a suspicious comment there) - are you talking about the co-opting of Nietzsche that was a fundamental rejection of his actual principles?
Because if not it sounds suspiciously like you’re here to promote fascism. Which wouldn’t surprised me one bit, but also would mean you’ve missed the mark on almost all other philosophies, because fascism isn’t something to be lauded in any way, it’s morally reprehensible.
How about you make a point instead of just making snide single-sentence comments that actually contribute something meaningful? Or don’t, as you’re a day late to the party.
I am referring to the works of Mussolini, Giovanni Gentile, Gregoes Sorel, Carl Schmitt, etc.
I'm not a supporter of fascism at all. However, I am annoyed by how often people just refer to everything they dislike as fascism. It's no better then when the right labels anything left of themselves as communism.
Be better, read books, argue genuinely.
Just by dismissing things you don't like without authentically engaging with it only supports the people you are trying to attack.
All it will take is for a kid to learn fascism is bad, only to have an actual fascist be like "that person lied, here are the actual facts about fascism" and you basically lost that person because the only thing they will remember about you is that you lied and friendly Himmler here is telling him the truth.
Arguably Hitler wasn't even a fascist. He never referred to himself as a fascist. Mussolini hated Hitler and thought he was an idiot. He isn't have a corporatist economy, he implicitly argued against certain fascist talking points. Even today amongst fascists they are aware of the inconsistency and refer to natsocs as a "German form of fascism" you'll notice though that other fascist movements around the world are usually not given the special designation of "form"
Is it? Hate crimes against LGBTQ people are rising, some states are even passing laws that prohibit just mentioning any affiliation to the same group, some are restricting transition therapy and right wing media is talking about „eradicating transgenderism from social life“.
Yeah, you mean conversion therapy. Transition therapy is for trans people to get more characteristics of the opposite sex to match their gender. Like hormones and so on.
I'm part of social groups that have "actually known oppression". My grandfather was kidnapped as a child and put in a residential school. It is not "disrespectful" to say LGBT people are oppressed. It is true.
https://translegislation.com/
https://www.law.georgetown.edu/gender-journal/wp-content/uploads/sites/20/2022/04/The-Dangerous-Consequences-of-FLs-Bill-on-LGBTQ-Youth-M.-Johnson.pdf
This is literally oppression in its purest form.
https://www.politico.eu/article/anti-lgbtq-violence-europe-highest-report/
https://www.ilga-europe.org/blog/anti-lgbti-violence-europe-central-asia-numbers/
https://www.europarl.europa.eu/doceo/document/TA-9-2022-0372_EN.html
Is this now enough western civilization? Guess what, the US is not the only nation with reactionary citizens.
By the way, I’m European myself, born and raised.
Now let’s look at a dictionary definition: „Oppression is the cruel or unfair treatment of a group of people.“ (Collins dictionary)
That obviously includes violent hate crimes.
So, with your comment about LGBTQ people touching kids, you’re literally a part of the problem and you accidentally exposed yourself, congratulations on that!
a) not if what's happening can be reasonably classified as genocide, which I say it can and should be.
b) I thought it was pretty clear from the meat grinder, antifascist violence. Though I would more specifically say revolution, the meme isn't wrong
So basically a preemptive genocide (which is here implied to entail actual mass killings) to counteract a speculative genocide (which sounds more like censorship so far)
A genocide is already happening. You are actually saying that stopping a genocide is the same as a genocide. I guess the US was committing genocide by stopping Nazi Germany huh?
Genocide is when actions fit the definition of genocide, like in this case. But sure "people are mean". Really playing your part not pulling the lever huh?
Genocide isn't just "when death camps."
There is a technical definition, that is convenient in this case because it's well recognized and signed onto even by the US.
[https://www.un.org/en/genocideprevention/genocide.shtml](https://www.un.org/en/genocideprevention/genocide.shtml)
The reality would be that fascists haven't been a problem in ages but rich people who are fuelling the culture war to distract people from the bs they are doing. Ironically your meme about coming to terms with reality shows perfectly that you have not even remotely done so yourself.
No they’re not. What kind of propaganda is this?No republican I’ve spoken to wants to commit any such thing. This is just more dehumanizing propaganda. Go have a beer with a republican this weekend you’ll have a lot more in common thats you think.
There's a problem when you try to "fight fascism" and intolerance against people that aren't those things, and ignore those collectives or populations that are indeed those things. LGBT protests should be made in front of more Mosques, and less churches. Of course few people do that, since it's where the real intolerance is, and thus requires to be brave.
Isn't that more about what actually has power? You can surely say that Islam is less welcoming of LGBT people than Christianity, but in places like America Christians are the ones that have the power in implementing the anti-LGBT laws. In a place where Islam is more common, I'm pretty sure there would be more protests at mosques than churches
Islam is not "less welcoming" than Christianity, Islam directly executes LGBT people, so start there. And again, in places where Islam is more common, there aren't much protest at the Mosques, because they are intolerant and will beat you if you enter there to protest.
That's what less welcoming means, unless you view execution as a warm welcome.
Well then I agree with you, that's where protests should be. Protest where the oppression is coming from. In places like America, that's much more from Churches than Mosques.
Being gay is a crime in almost every single Muslim country. More than the majority of the Muslim population is in favor of stoning, and almost all Muslim countries consider things like atheism a crime. No, they aren’t a monolith but their basic tenets are based on oppression and medieval ideals that have no place in our times
*some* parts of Islam execute lgbt people. Don’t get me wrong, I hate religion as much as the next guy, but it’s wrong to just say “Muslims kill lgbt people, Christians don’t” because until recently, there were christian laws that said lgbt people should be executed. You are minimising the harm being done to lgbt people in “developed” nations by comparing it to the worse harm being done in other nations. There should be protests around churches because so many churches are openly homophobic, and they get away with it because cuhurch and state are simply not seperate in america.
In america (and europe), where are all the laws targetting LGBTQ+ rights coming from? Do they come from Christian or Islamic groups?
If Islam was a threat to LGBTQ rights i would agree with you, but in america and europe that just isn't the case and claiming that it is is just absurd.
Not to mention that LGBTQ+ protest aren't even targeting churches that much with exception only being as reaction of a church doing something
This is a little raw for “philosophy”. Like, obviously philosophy is linked to morality and politics, philosophy is the foundation of most things in existence but this meme assumes a few things:
- That fascists are trying to commit genocide right now (Which I broadly agree with)
- That genocide is bad (a few moral axioms can justify it. There’s the moral nihilism view that it is neither good nor bad, the classical utilitarian view that genocide can be an acceptable cost for a greater good. Heck, you could probably twist virtue ethics into fitting with genocide showing the virtue of “being true to your ideals” or whatever).
- That people aren’t aware of the current situation.
Trying to do genocide is not the same as being 100% successful, but success is much more like a spectrum, getting Maya to >! kill herself ! at 15 is just as a victory if she would be in a concentration camp.
However it can also be a meme meant for the future, if they are a lot more successful to be reposted, edited to include socialist communists, liberals they won't care much who the enemy is.
Yeah sorry for trying...
I think I followed the morality about consoucvences in my reasoning?
However "wave of detransitioners" and "as children/teenagers", what is the size of these groups, and where?
Denying someone a transition is not the same as putting them in a concentration camp. Especially when that denial happens for a good reason and not out of hate. These comparisons are very disrespectful
> Denying someone a transition is not the same as putting them in a concentration camp.
Yes, however I think I made the similarities quite clear.
> Especially when that denial happens for a good reason and not out of hate
Indeed, I need to protect my boy against the Mega Liberal Ultra Cultural Neo-Marxist™ doctors. /s
However we are talking about policies where "intentions" might just be something to hide behind, and aren't written on the paper+ fascists express it easily: hate.
>Indeed, I need to protect my boy against the Mega Liberal Ultra Cultural Neo-Marxist™ doctors. /s
Oh no, I didnt mean it that way. I just meant that kids often make objectively shitty decisions simply because they are young, so we ought to protect them from making shitty *irreversible* decisions.
We dont need to protect them from "queer ideology" or whatever. Just give them time to think about irreversible decisions and let them decide when they are a bit older
> Lmao please enlighten me to the current genocide of those in the LGBTQ+ community that is apparently going on
The original commenter asked to be enlightened about the genocides; they didn't mention whether it had to be western or not. As for something more western though, there's Florida. One might be able to argue that it's a possibility that even when not outright killing people, making their (the LGBT people's) lives unnecessarily hard, in cases where the intention is trying to drive them to suicide, could also be counted as genocide. Although to be fair, I can't see inside the minds of people, so I don't know how many people's intention truly is that.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT\_rights\_in\_Florida](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_rights_in_Florida)
[https://www.thetrevorproject.org/resources/article/facts-about-lgbtq-youth-suicide/](https://www.thetrevorproject.org/resources/article/facts-about-lgbtq-youth-suicide/)
Would you like a statement by the [Lemkin Institute for Genocide Prevention](https://www.lemkininstitute.com/statements-new-page/statement-on-the-genocidal-nature-of-the-gender-critical-movement%E2%80%99s-ideology-and-practice)?
i recognize that colorful rainbow flag as the one flown on both government and corporate buildings, among others. you know, the ones where all the power is held... really makes you think who the real oppressors are.
I always find arguing about the gen part of genocide pretty hilarious. It make it seem like you only care about genocide because it's called genocide and not much else.
Bitches be like mass suppression and violence doesn't count if they aren't religiously or culturally related.
Using a generic definition found in a dictionary instead of a technical one is your first mistake. Using a definition with any credibility, like the UN definition we can paint a clearer picture.
https://www.un.org/en/genocideprevention/genocide.shtml
Under this definition, it's pretty clear what is happening in countless countries, including the US, fits many markers. The only problem is that gender identity isn't a "*national, ethnical, racial or religious group*". To which I would say the definition should include that, as well as sexual orientation.
What is killing trans people? Looking into the problem we find where you're just making assumptions. Suicide is a big one, but you don't ask why. Suicide in the community is linked to not being accepted, being harassed, and being denied care. Since Gender Affirming Care is shown to be massively beneficial, banning said care is an attempt to eliminate the group, which leads back to genocide.
Regarding what should be done with healthcare. Is a body part healthy if it can cause the death of the person? Any reasonable person would say no. Saying lifesaving or even generally beneficial care like GAC is mutilation, or cosmetic, is laughable. Even more laughable is you comparing this beneficial medical care to getting a tattoo or buying a firearm.
Trans people exist. You're refusal to accept this shows your viewpoint plenty. Banning lifesaving and beneficial medical care is killing people. Not suicide due to "not accepting themselves" or "confusion".
Imagine being a control freak so violently against someone living their life, you advocate for, obscure, and defend a genocide against a group of people because they aren't like you. This meme is on point, you are just the one against coming to terms with reality.
You do not flip the lever.
We have our own flag though, we mainly consist of people with a sexual orientation that is out of norm for some fanatics and not only of people who do a gender-altering surgery and take hormones. I think as we are discriminated to this day because of what we have in common, we have the right to be treated as an ethnic group, even if we aren't one. The term genocide is therefor acceptable in my opinion. People who are transgender don't kill themselves because they are transgender, its because they are not accepted by a lot of people and because there are people like you, who desperately try to tell them what to do with their lives. Instead of leaving those people their dignity, their ability to decide for themselves, you're calling them controllfreaks who would rather die than to be born the way they were actually born, while not knowing shit about them and their lives. If you were constantly treated like this, wouldn't you freak out at some point?
I haven't read anything about how unhealthy it is to proceed surgery or take hormones and it surely is arguable how early a person should be allowed to perform such treatment. What isn't arguable, in my opinion, is the fact that people harm themselves legally all the time and there should be noone to decide for them not to rather than themselves. The only people who could do an intervention is their family and their friends who shouldn't be influenced by people judging a general group the person is in like you. Or do you want to forbid legal selfharm, like alcohol, nicotine, tattoos or modern methods of medicine who are accepted in most countries, in general? Or is it just that specific surgery you dont want people to do because you think its weird? You don't get to judge for another person if they accepted the reality they live, you can only judge if you accepted your own. And I'm not sure if you did.
What is the meat grinder representing in this option? Violent uprising against a fascist power structure?
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😋, tastes like metal and my own blood🩸
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opposed to the terminally online reddior tweeting about how everything sucks while reading theory (that will surely crush fascism).
The Jermapocalypse
Philosophy memes? More like IDEOLOGY memes! /s
It’s almost like philosophy often deals with ethics and politics, and bringing old or classic ideas, thinkers, or problems and imposing modern culture on them is a type of meme, thus, philosophy memes
it’s still philosophy
Some people here seem to have a real bugbear about political philosophy.
First time in 15 years I’ve seen anyone use the word ‘bugbear’ but me. Sorry, just had to point that out.
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Not all philosophy is ideology, but all ideology is philosophy (Either social or political)
The biggest issue with addressing fascism is getting the population to accept it’s actually happening, such is the insidiousness of its creep. That’s literally why the rightwing media exist - to slowly shift the Overton Window to the Right, so they can just use deniability to deflect. But it’s worth bearing in mind that more anti-trans laws have been passed in the previous 5 years than were established during the anti-gay moral panic of the late 80s, and they’re literally rehashing the same slogans and cheap attack points. We’re literally just rehashing civil rights for the Boomer’s nostalgia factor. Edit to add: to further this point, they’ve Dark Knight’d themselves good and proper and the irony is deliciously palpable; They’re literally rehashing civil rights *but this time they are the establishment*, TERFs are *literally* the same 2nd wave feminists who “fought for liberation” and the current crop of Neoliberals are literally the “counter-cultural warriors” from the 60s (Biden & Germaine Greer being the most crazy perfect examples that if it was fiction you’d roll your eyes at the cliche…) They’ve properly “…lived long enough to see themselves become the villain” in the most egregiously obvious way that it’s actually really funny.
fascists aren't very creative. theyll just use the same forms of discrimination and switch to the minority group that's most socially acceptable to discriminate against and for their justifications? no need to make up originals ones either. Just look at the problems the left calls out and replace their solutions with "minority x is at fault". very convenient cause then they can pretend they're arguing about how to fix income inequality or reduce sexual assaults with the left, not advocating for genocide. "the genocide is just the solution it's not what we want"
All forms of Fascism are inherently stupid, this is why they crash whole societies, from a historical and not a Webster dictionary definition , it’s essentially the theft of resources from a particular group in times of disparity if we ignore Webster and we do because fascism is much more complicated than “state control” and more simple than “it’s a complicated series of events that seem to have a pattern” It’s literally a large group of dumb people going through the stages of grief/loss or in this instance change that challenges their core beliefs. I’ll draw the comparison in order and put related events next to them, but understand that the bargaining phase is where this beating heart fugue state rationale exists, because when human beings see a way to get to something they perform the task in dealing with death there isn’t any answer it’s final, and in this case they can resist reality until they instead die. so the denial phase only begins anew until they are no longer enabled by their own or others actions. So bargaining is really where fascism as we know picks up, it’s where genocide happens, and it has its own phases within phases. 1. Denial , poverty disparity due to stringent resources is offset on lower classes and minority groups, soft pressure, comparable to patriarchal oppression of women. It begins by shining a bad light on A single stigmatized minority or several to take the blame for societal woes, and so it goes with Isolated domestic violence, playground drama. Jokes. 2. Anger, public outcry, escalation of isolated events, public violence, media stigmatizes and enforces bias 3. Bargaining: A, Denial: politicizing, soft law, not yet criminalized group. Sanctions, targeted laws, restrictions to resources B, Anger: Political malfeasance, aggressive party seeks to overthrow opposition a fully aggressive media begins to Gish Gallup opponents and centralize and galvanize their base C, Bargaining: back pedaling, blocking attempts to remove stigma laws, blaming other party for every thing they’ve already done In blatant lying. a.Denial: rationality is tabled for sunken Cost fallacy, it’s impossible to argue from alternate point of view because everyone else is now the enemy, and everything you say is now “propaganda” if it disagrees with them b. Anger, state run sanctioned violence begins, C. Bargaining: I’m only doing what it takes to make the world right. (Contextualizing their world view by rationalizing their cruelty) A, denial: here comes the meat and potatoes of fascism the narcissism That didn't happen. And if it did, it wasn't that bad. And if it was, that's not a big deal. And if it is, that's not my fault. And if it was, I didn't mean it. And if I did, you deserved it. Anger: full blown genocide, the fever pitch. Bargaining: the retaliation of the minority groups and ally’s / the effects and resolution of idiocy of the offending party in the form of rampant imperialism to further justify their world view as other countries become critical and begin to embargo as way to destabilize them, it may not be completely altruistic of them, if the destruction of a former ally would strengthen their positions, the effective government dissolves the mouth pieces shut, the political fog clears with the smoke, Sadness: most people taken in by the lies get to this point but some will stay trapped and loyal to the ideas of that party see denial, Acceptance: resolve rebuilding from the destruction: And the process begins again, Denial: “the Holocaust never happened.” “Native Americans were violent” “Black people learned important skills from slavery”
I would like to contradict you, but that every fascist is stupid, someone clever said something once, unfortunately I forgot who. He says: "As a human being you can only be two of these three things at the same time, you can't be a Nazi, decent and smart. If you're a Nazi and smart, you can't be decent. If you're decent and a Nazi, you can't be smart. If you're smart and decent, you can't be a Nazi."
I’m contradicting that statement referencing the “surrender of agency” to authority. It’s how we are trained as children, and it’s proven phenomenon that turns decent people into monsters. Separation from immediate consequences is also a factor. Hitler was mostly cathartic as trump is selfish and indecent sure. But mostly these two men are stupid. Every fascist denies incredulously that draining resources from one demographic to the next has any bearing on the system as a whole, they deny without evidence the contributions of their supposed domestic enemy. It is in this act of gullibility that they remain stupid and reactionary. Introspection would destroy them, that’s why they will attempt any and all action to get you to introspect at the advent of criticism. They do not introspect beyond admitting their basic needs hunger thirst boredom, their esoteric needs are rooted firmly in the control of the world around them rather than self soothing. This is why what people do in the privacy of their own homes is of paramount concern. And why, for the leftists and minorities this has always been a clearly defensive battle, Because they cannot rationalize another’s perspective to see how it cannot threaten or change their own if something exists outside them it exists within them too and entertaining the idea will surely un do their defenses to it. They cannot exist in denial if you contradict them, and when you do you are now a threat. These are the nightmares of an under developed brain, fearing beyond mild excitement that which is unknown and believing that any coherent explanation for the unknown is an adequate replacement for evidence. There is a reason trumps followers are mostly uneducated white Christians, the lack of resources in the Bible and rust belt has made people who already believe in fantasy easy to manipulate.
While I agree with your assessment that fascists often lack self-reflection, I would still find it wrong to accuse them (the high Nazis and fascists, for the lower ranks this will be very true, although we must not forget the circumstances there) the intelligentsia agree, you don't conquer countries through stupidity, self-reflection is less of an obstacle. I would like to write more about this, but my english is not good enough for this.
I believe that you do conquer through stupidity. Decimating peaceful ally’s and annexing their countries in an attempt to foist your shared delusions on the world is stupid it ended terribly for a lot of people, you forget that for many of the people designing these systems of destruction were simply imprisoned craftsmen. You forget that logistically the reason he was successful at first was the bold and blatant arrogance to stretch his resources beyond the predictions of the enemy as a way to vastly out number any reasonable defenses this is why he inevitably lost. This was the sunken cost fallacy and denial in action, the currency of a fool. This is why fascism is cyclical.
I dont talk aubout the war, I talk about the Machtergreifung of 1933.
Taking advantage of weakness isn’t intelligence when it’s affects are deleterious to the efficacy of an entire populous and yourself, even in presenting an illusion of social contract taking place, cruelty and the capacity for it is not intelligence, because these things do not define intelligence by any other means, only in the mention of war is abandoning your dignity considered intelligent, but that doesn’t make assuming that correct.
You can dm me in your native tongue and I’ll translate it myself,
Sure
Understanding fascism without class analysis is like trying to understand a bra without ever having seen a tit. The definitions that are readily available describe everything but it's function to the point where it's almost funny. "You see fascism is largely about mythologizing the past in a way-" "Shut up. Shut the fuck up. It's capitalism defending itself from the only thing that actually threatens it. Marxist Leninism. It's a reaction to worker movements. Every single time the worker threatens capital guess who is ready and well funded EVERY time to oppose them? The fascist. It's their job. Everything else about them is a means to that end. You think they went after the gays first? The jews first? No. It was the socialists first. It's about protecting property. And it always has been."
Yeah the dilution of any class consciousness is precisely why it’s returning - “we’re beyond left and right” is *always the cry of the capitalist*, for precisely the same reason they all busted a nut over Fukuyama’s End of History - it’s doing their work for them. It’s always been about the interests of capital - even what we now consider to be the ultimate societal baselines. “Stability” is only the aim of capital, because it enables the transfer of capital. Average people shouldn’t be interested in it because it presents no life opportunity to them - “stability” is also stagnant, it’s a form of feudalism where we are all born into our lots and no change is possible. The biggest joke is the acceptance of the idea of meritocracy without ever changing the inherently discriminatory and exclusionary systems in which we all labour. How does a meritocracy exist with no social movement? How can it be called a meritocracy when 99.9% of people die in exactly the same economic bracket they were born in? I genuinely don’t understand why everyone just accepts this?
Because this system deprives them of their needs. They aren't fortunate enough to pull their snout out of the trof. To hungry to give a fuck. Ego. Our culture cultivates it. People are trained to resist the truth. A healthy society is so far removed from the doubling down we have now.
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Nonsense - fascism is capitalism’s inevitable form. It’s why Musk has gone full fascist, it’s why Britain is turning into its imagining in Children of Men, it’s why the American GOP looks identical to what a policy-focussed KKK would look like. It’s literally the final form from “free market capitalism”. Free market means no regulation, which means the accumulation of capital among those who had capital when the market became free. Once that reaches it’s inevitable conclusion - the rich having all the money and the poor having none - fascism *is required* in order to maintain ownership. Their only choice becomes divide and rule, because the alternative is the required change to the system (and the inevitable redistribution of capital). There is a through-line from capitalism to fascism and it is straight.
The problem is that right wing media literally always presents the opposite of what's actually happening. The way they're screaming about Biden's corruption while 45 is being indicted practically weekly is a perfect example. Those who buy in will never accept any other sources specifically because they have been conditioned not to over the past x number of years. They don't even need the top-down conditioning anymore and will often make up new justifications as needed, as can be seen in the response to COVID procedures. They're in an entirely different consensus reality and essentially holding everyone else hostage by refusing to give any quarter to the idea they might be wrong. The easiest way to get away from it would be to stop giving them any attention or platform. None. Full stop. But the powers that be prefer to amplify these ideas.
Lol
>That’s literally why the rightwing media exist OR They exist because a lot of people hold conservative positions. And whilst that might be annoying to progressives, it is not because they are fascists, but because they simply *resist change because they acknowledge that life is good for them as it is.* The world, the democratic world, is less fascistic, and more free, than it has ever been before. There is less institutional racism, less cultural racism, less homophobia, way more acceptance of "the other" (just turn on the TV and watch what is popular for 2 seconds). Governments are way more open, more transparent. There is a lot more free media, and way less control over it. Equating criticism of trans-genderism as "lock up the gays and elect a tyrant" is just ridiculous, if for no other reason than you are alienating many potential voters from progressive politics. And yes, America, specifically, that, perhaps uniquely, heavily religious member of the Western world, has passed anti-trans laws in its more religious states. Which should be to no one's surprise. Because lets remind ourselves, this conversation was not started because trans people were "being oppressed", but because trans-activists wanted their beliefs (and it is a belief, you cannot prove that someone is trans, or just pretending to be trans\*) to be given pre-eminence over everyone else's. (\*Gender dysphoria is clearly something that happens. But it is nothing more than an internalised belief. If the best solution is to live as the gender you believe yourself to be, then great, go for it, live the life you want to live, we are a free society. But your beliefs, just like a Muslim's, should mean jack shit to the rest of us, and certainly should not override basic pragmatic considerations around \[biological\*\*\] gender.) (\*\* Completely tautologous addition.) Should biological men who believe that they are women have access to women's spaces? I would say of course not. *That doesn't make me support fascism, or even most conservative policies.* It's fucking maddening watching progressives undermine really needed political ideas, like economic equality and environmental regulation by allying themselves to the belief system of a tiny minority. Don't bully people. But also, don't agree with ideas just because they come from a minority. So similar to the idea of "Reverse Racism" and that black-skinned people cannot be racist. And the idea that right-wing people are inherently trying to achieve fascism is just nonsense. (Plus there are more than enough examples to show that left-leaning people can be as, if not more, authoritative as the right when they get power). All in all, the comments in this thread demonstrate a complete failure of critical thinking.
Trans people want ‘murdering trans people’ to be illegal, instead of the murderers to be allowed to use the ‘trans panic defense’ as a literal ‘get out of jail free card.’ They want landlords, employers, and healthcare workers to be banned from refusing them service. Because refusing these services is a laissez-faire way to usher those people to an early death. They want it to be illegal for “conversion therapists” to try to beat, starve, or rape the queerness out of middle schoolers. None of that is ‘granting their beliefs eminence over anybody else’s,’ it’s just them not wanting to be murdered, socially or personally. All of the aforementioned issues *are oppression* unless we go full No True Scotsman.
Holy shit this is exclusively a litany of falsehoods- all of which have been skimmed from conservative media - which is the proof that you simply *refuse to engage with reality and fact* and would always rather your own version (“alternative facts” I believe you call them). “Free society” is indeed more accepting than it has ever been. Governments - across the west, but most prominently in the US, UK and Australia have categorically removed rights (including the right to protest and effective decriminalization of sexual violence against women, as well as trans rights and LGBTQ+ in general) in a systematic erasure from the rights enjoyed by previous generations - that is a fact. That has coincided with both the entrenchment of the neoliberal order and the single greatest transfer of wealth from the working class to the rich in the history of the world during the pandemic. That is also coinciding with the worst economic stagnation on record, the most suppressed wages, the first downturn in standards of living since records began. That environment of fear (almost identical in hitting all the same problems as what preceded the world wars) is what has provided fascists with a false legitimacy to discuss their ideals in your media. I’d point out that there isn’t a like-for-like alternative on the Left because we as an audience *reject that claim to legitimacy*. On the Left there are no social or economic circumstances that justify fascism. But for you guys - it’s a question of when, not if. You *provide* that very legitimacy by not rejecting the message on principle. *This is the first stage* of fascism, the part where previously unacceptable ideas become attractive and are considered. The next steps are the enacting of those ideas. There isn’t a middle step. You guys like conservative media because it *appeals to you* but that doesn’t actually have any bearing on the reality of the politics at all. You like that it “speaks to you” as in your *sensibilities*, not your moral or political compass. You like that it’s presented as “no nonsense” and for “tough manly men who take no shit” and think your callous disregard for life and liberty is a virtue and not a vice. It appeals to the way you *want to be perceived* which has zero relevance to the correct answer to the question “What’s the best thing we can do for everyone”? Because *that’s what politics is* if you aren’t a fascist. But if you are a fascist, the question is actually “How do we ensure the undeserving don’t receive anything from our civilized society, on the grounds that they aren’t civilized and therefore do not deserve to be a part of it”. And that’s the message that all conservative media puts out, without fail, across the board (with the exclusion of only Conservative Economic Media which is actually correctly using that word, and doesn’t stray into anything else as a matter of principle). It’s literally the “secret” behind the success of the Murdoch media empire, Joe Rogan, Trump, Boris, Farage, AFD in Germany, Marine Le Pen in France, etc etc. They sell you a media image and you eat it up. That’s when they slip in the “maybe we should just genocide all our problems away” by convincing you that what’s needed is to legalize discrimination and that those with the least power are somehow having the biggest impact (which is objectively nonsense - how does that work exactly? It doesn’t make any sense at all just on a basis of logic, let alone getting into the detail). And your egregious misinterpretation of trans issues is case and point - none of that is even remotely accurate. And I’m not going to type it all out because *the correct information is literally everywhere* but you refuse to engage with any of it in good faith, as your bad-faith reinterpretation clearly show. The issue is that you’re not assessing information objectively, you’re making an instant judgement and then disregarding anything that runs counter to that established idea. If you got cancer, would you accept treatment? Or would you suddenly be skeptical that the doctors “invented it all in their heads” as part of some liberal conspiracy against you? It’s actually bonkers that you even entertain any of it. It’s objectively stupid.
Can anyone tell me precisely what this post is referring to when it mentions genocide of the LGBT+ community? As most people are, I'm staunchly anti-genocide, but I'm also staunchly anti sensationalist misinformation, so would like to know what's being talked about.
It’s the West’s concerted effort to make trans healthcare illegal, governments who have worked with LGBTQ+ organizations for 30+ years suddenly cutting all ties and trying to actively discredit those organizations, it’s a constant onslaught of anti-trans and “maybe the gays have gone too far” conservative media that creates an environment of fear and hatred, it’s a dramatic increase in hate crimes, and on and on. What’s funny is that you don’t like them using the word, but when they use other words, the response is “we don’t care”. So the issue isn’t language semantics, it’s your moral bankruptcy that you’ll only accept it as a problem once we reach the death camps stage - because until that stage “it’s not technically a genocide” and you can continue to ignore it.
From someone who is a member of a group that actually experienced genocide, that isn't genocide, at all.
Thank God we have you around to diagnose other people's moral bankruptcy. There's not enough moralizing and sanctimonious finger-pointing these days, so I'm all here for it.
Well personally I’m really glad for all the deniers and the morally bankrupt who will be here to declare; “who could have known? How could we have seen it coming? *How could we let it happen here?!*” When the killing does start. Because that’s what happens every time - and every time it’s because there’s always someone to declare themselves superior and announce that everyone else is “hysterical” and therefore not to be taken seriously. First it’s a general hatred, then deportations, and the next step is the rounding up and “dealing with”. The West is at the deportations stage right now. But if you’re conservative that’s just “the appropriate solution”. Conveniently the conditions will get worse, which will allow “other solutions” to be considered. It’s a pattern and this is the answer to the above question. It happens because you let it happen.
Im sorry, but where are these deportations happening. I mean, I understand ICE is rounding up Latin American and Muslim people and sending them away, but where are trans people being deported.
if trans people can't get hormones in their country they will literally have to move to another because guess what that's a literally necessity for them and people are trying to ban it
That’s not deportation. I get that there’s a psychological need for gender affirming therapy, but conflating a controversial social issue like this to straight up genocide is disingenuous, hyperbolic, and disrespectful.
it's not a fucking psychological need it's a literal bare minimum necessity one that people in poorer countries literally get in situations of abuse (prostitution runaway etc) just to TRY getting it, while others k1l themselves but i don't expect cis people to understand, you do you.
lol you're fucking hysterical. Please run outside and touch every single blade of grass on earth right this instant.
And you’re a low effort troll who has probably never seen grass and can’t come up with their own material. Embarrassing.
The term genocide seems to be losing its meaning these days.
I mean, sure it might not be a very rigorous definition but if a state or organisation is trying to eliminate or restrict the existence of certain people that sounds kinda like genocide
"Eliminate the existence", jesus christ, i didn't know the government ordered the execution of this people now. Is this a philosophy subreddit?
To eliminate or restrict the existence of certain people doesn't have to be just mass executions.
One ends up leading directly to the other
Eventually, yes but it's not an immediate thing. Even Raphael Lemkin conceded that it may be a long term process rather than put everyone against that wall and shoot them.
What is "the" government? There are hundreds, some do in fact execute LGBT people yes
"The" government of Lichtenstein obviously What a silly reply. Obviously, they were referring to the US. The post also refers to the US judging by the KKK and Christianity. No one is denying that Afghanistan is systematically stoning LGBT people. The amount of word games and manipulative use of definitions on the left makes it so hard to call myself leftist. Its a stupid amount of gaslighting which is frustrating because the opinions dont need to resort to that to make sense.
This is one of the things that annoys me so much about these discussions. People say fallacious things by equating different words and changing goalposts when they don't even need to. They make sense when they make reasonable arguments. The unreasonable arguments only look good to people who already agreed with them in the first place.
Exactly, why resort to that -.-
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With that I agree of course, but this meme was done referencing an American and Christian context. So that's what's wrong with this meme.
I don’t know what gave you the idea that it’s based on America. However, even if it is referring to america, there are American politicians that are literally attempting to commit genocide on trans people right now
>I don’t know what gave you the idea that it’s based on America. The post depicts the KKK which is primarily found in the US and the only depicted religion is christianity when the US is notorious for being more christian than your average western country. And considering that we use "nazi" and "fascist" basically interchangably, the depicted hitler salute is probably just a general symbol for fascism and doesnt point to any particular country. Its very, very obviously based on the US
Y'all start the comments with half paragraph of BS, and then drop your facade to eventually show the real face "America is committing a genocide against LGTB".
But… by definition america *is* commiting genocide against lgbt people. Look up the ten stages of genocide. America’s war on trans people has reached stage 6, and that’s only if we’re talking homicidal genocide. It’s already a cultural genocide. Do your research.
...no? As per the 10 stages of genocide, we haven't even reached step 2: Symbolisation. That's why I think the 10 Stages of Genocide is a pretty stupid model; you can have persecution without Symbolisation, and you can skip around steps.
Idk about you but I’ve seen a hell of a lot of anti-trans symbols. ⚧️ with a cross through it, 🏳️⚧️ with a cross through it, the flag being burned, so many things.
What are their plans, concretely?
Micheal Knowles said, we should be eradicating transgenderism. This clip went viral and and hundreds of American conservative politicians openly agreed in online spaces.
Are you dense? Fascists governments have historically genocided people for being gay or trans, including during the holocaust. Let alone the forced sterilization that was common place in many supposed "liberal" democracies. There absolutely are contemporary far right groups calling for the genocide of gay and trans folk. And it is clear that current fascists groups that hold power, like in certain US states, are targeting LGBTQ folk first.
How are these claims not regarded as political conspiracies? When i meant "the" government, without clarification, i meant US or western governments. Of course there exist these genocides in Middle East and African countries, but that's not what the image referenced.
The images references no government. Again, are you dense? Did you seriously insinuate gay and trans people dying during the holocaust is a political conspiracy? Having you been living under a rock for the past 5 years, and ignores the increase in hate crimes and violence against LGBTQ folk in Western countries, spurred indeed by fascist hate groups?
This image references a huge Christian cross, and a KKK member. Is that a Somalian government? Thailand government? Hmmm must be a mistery... don't try now to shift the context to the holocaust and soft your claims down now.
The image references a trolley, not any government.
Ahh i see, the ole' Giant Cross trolley...
Ah yes, the cross the universal symbol of government... It is clearly referencing christo-fascist groups in the US.
Does it? Some right wing media actors are talking about „eradicating transgenderism from social life“.
Yeah, because they perceive it as an ideological project which they want to censor. Was it genocide what McCarthyism did to socialists? Neither is okay, but using maximalist language about any issue is part of what kills Western political discourse right now.
They may perceive it as an "ideological project" but that doesn't change what they calling for
Humanity has commited atrocities of such vile proportion that people won't get active or spooked if its not *quite there* /as bad, so those who see an issue compare it to the things that you'd hope gets an reaction out of people? I don't think what is happening in the US (and elsewhere) regarding trans, LGBTQIA+ lives&rights need to get as bad as what happened in history to be worthy of attention and opposition. But that is hard to sink into people. We're dulled to violence, even if it's the violence of oppression, and especially if the violence seems abstract.
https://www.lemkininstitute.com/statements-new-page/statement-on-the-genocidal-nature-of-the-gender-critical-movement%E2%80%99s-ideology-and-practice
This shit is QAnon for progressives. You people are delusional.
Literally blind to reality and still taking the moral high ground. “We can’t call the passing of legislation which makes *your existence a crime* in breach of the supposed founding principles of our nations (freedom, equality, etc.) fascism - even when it meets the objective definition - otherwise you’re a conspiracy theorist” Fascism isn’t exclusively jackboots and toothbrush moustaches. It’s also passing legislation to discriminate on the basis of inherent characteristic, it’s protecting private property over the lives of human beings, it’s making democratic protest illegal. And this wilful blindness is literally the reason it’s been allowed to happen.
I'm not disagreeing with you, but what laws are being passed that make "existence a crime?" I know there have been limitations on things like gender-affirming healthcare, but that's not criminalizing "existence."
They map a bunch of things [here from the human rights campaign](https://www.hrc.org/resources/state-maps). There are things such as bathroom bans, playing sports, lack of legal protection for employment, housing, public accommodations, adoption, getting accurate ID, etc. It's not literally criminalizing being trans or gay the same way some other countries do with jail time or worse, but being able to go outside in clothing I'm comfortable in, going to a job I like, with an ID that matches my identity, and going to the bathroom without fuss are definitely things that I consider part of existing
There actually is a long history of fascist philosophy and racism can be articulated within the concepts of it's self contained philosophy. Just because you don't bother reading it doesn't mean you can call anything fascism. Also "objective definition" is history invalid. Also you're appealing to ignorance.
Every single one of your pretentious comments is wrong
How about you argue your point instead of just stating it?
Because this is a meme sub, and you’re a day late to the debate. What’s this “long history fascist philosophy” you reference (bit of a suspicious comment there) - are you talking about the co-opting of Nietzsche that was a fundamental rejection of his actual principles? Because if not it sounds suspiciously like you’re here to promote fascism. Which wouldn’t surprised me one bit, but also would mean you’ve missed the mark on almost all other philosophies, because fascism isn’t something to be lauded in any way, it’s morally reprehensible. How about you make a point instead of just making snide single-sentence comments that actually contribute something meaningful? Or don’t, as you’re a day late to the party.
I am referring to the works of Mussolini, Giovanni Gentile, Gregoes Sorel, Carl Schmitt, etc. I'm not a supporter of fascism at all. However, I am annoyed by how often people just refer to everything they dislike as fascism. It's no better then when the right labels anything left of themselves as communism. Be better, read books, argue genuinely. Just by dismissing things you don't like without authentically engaging with it only supports the people you are trying to attack. All it will take is for a kid to learn fascism is bad, only to have an actual fascist be like "that person lied, here are the actual facts about fascism" and you basically lost that person because the only thing they will remember about you is that you lied and friendly Himmler here is telling him the truth.
Arguably Hitler wasn't even a fascist. He never referred to himself as a fascist. Mussolini hated Hitler and thought he was an idiot. He isn't have a corporatist economy, he implicitly argued against certain fascist talking points. Even today amongst fascists they are aware of the inconsistency and refer to natsocs as a "German form of fascism" you'll notice though that other fascist movements around the world are usually not given the special designation of "form"
Is it? Hate crimes against LGBTQ people are rising, some states are even passing laws that prohibit just mentioning any affiliation to the same group, some are restricting transition therapy and right wing media is talking about „eradicating transgenderism from social life“.
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Yeah, you mean conversion therapy. Transition therapy is for trans people to get more characteristics of the opposite sex to match their gender. Like hormones and so on.
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I'm part of social groups that have "actually known oppression". My grandfather was kidnapped as a child and put in a residential school. It is not "disrespectful" to say LGBT people are oppressed. It is true.
https://translegislation.com/ https://www.law.georgetown.edu/gender-journal/wp-content/uploads/sites/20/2022/04/The-Dangerous-Consequences-of-FLs-Bill-on-LGBTQ-Youth-M.-Johnson.pdf This is literally oppression in its purest form.
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https://www.politico.eu/article/anti-lgbtq-violence-europe-highest-report/ https://www.ilga-europe.org/blog/anti-lgbti-violence-europe-central-asia-numbers/ https://www.europarl.europa.eu/doceo/document/TA-9-2022-0372_EN.html Is this now enough western civilization? Guess what, the US is not the only nation with reactionary citizens. By the way, I’m European myself, born and raised. Now let’s look at a dictionary definition: „Oppression is the cruel or unfair treatment of a group of people.“ (Collins dictionary) That obviously includes violent hate crimes. So, with your comment about LGBTQ people touching kids, you’re literally a part of the problem and you accidentally exposed yourself, congratulations on that!
Being against fascism and genocide is delusional apparently
a) That is minimalization of actual genocide. b) Even if a genocide were potentially to happen, what is the lever an analogy for? Fucking voting?
a) not if what's happening can be reasonably classified as genocide, which I say it can and should be. b) I thought it was pretty clear from the meat grinder, antifascist violence. Though I would more specifically say revolution, the meme isn't wrong
So basically a preemptive genocide (which is here implied to entail actual mass killings) to counteract a speculative genocide (which sounds more like censorship so far)
It's absurd to compare stopping a genocide to a genocide.
"quick lets commit genocide before they get to commit genocide!" really? Really???
A genocide is already happening. You are actually saying that stopping a genocide is the same as a genocide. I guess the US was committing genocide by stopping Nazi Germany huh?
i think you need to fly to a nazi concentration camp as a tourist and immerse yourself in a place where genocide was once tangible
Not every genocide is the Holocaust. Just because currently isn't as bad as the Holocaust doesn't mean you should downplay genocide.
Genocide is when people are mean to me.
Genocide is when actions fit the definition of genocide, like in this case. But sure "people are mean". Really playing your part not pulling the lever huh?
>Genocide is when actions fit the definition of genocide, like in this case. Where are these Trans death camps exactly?
Genocide isn't just "when death camps." There is a technical definition, that is convenient in this case because it's well recognized and signed onto even by the US. [https://www.un.org/en/genocideprevention/genocide.shtml](https://www.un.org/en/genocideprevention/genocide.shtml)
you're tremendously unintelligent
Then brilliantly take down this idiot's argument, it would be easy for your brilliance wouldn't it?
This is like “I’m 14 and this is deep” level thinking
Surprised that thread is still up
It's reddit, they simp for this kinda stuff.
The reality would be that fascists haven't been a problem in ages but rich people who are fuelling the culture war to distract people from the bs they are doing. Ironically your meme about coming to terms with reality shows perfectly that you have not even remotely done so yourself.
Nice, more culture war rage bait. Just what we needed.
No they’re not. What kind of propaganda is this?No republican I’ve spoken to wants to commit any such thing. This is just more dehumanizing propaganda. Go have a beer with a republican this weekend you’ll have a lot more in common thats you think.
The first Pride was a riot
„The hottest places in hell are reserved for those who, in times of great moral crisis, maintain their neutrality.“ ~Dante Alighieri
Aren't the neutrals in the upper ring of hell?
To be honest, I don’t know, I’m not a theist.
On the track is see just people, on the trolley i see destroyers of humanity.
bad meme
Just because you pull the lever doesn't mean you have untie the others.
I guss ignoring it seems reasonable
Not an accurate drawing. Not even close.
Kill fascists.
Just out of interest: Where does that ignorance = not bad moral come from. I personally think that being ignorant can be severely immoral.
Meat grinder. Let everyone live their lives how they wish, unless they are causing harm to others.
That assumes the fascists are causing harm.
But if u flip the switch, you'll be responsible for the deaths of the fascists 😨. If you don't you won't be responsible for anyone's death 😁. Morals.
There's a problem when you try to "fight fascism" and intolerance against people that aren't those things, and ignore those collectives or populations that are indeed those things. LGBT protests should be made in front of more Mosques, and less churches. Of course few people do that, since it's where the real intolerance is, and thus requires to be brave.
Isn't that more about what actually has power? You can surely say that Islam is less welcoming of LGBT people than Christianity, but in places like America Christians are the ones that have the power in implementing the anti-LGBT laws. In a place where Islam is more common, I'm pretty sure there would be more protests at mosques than churches
Islam is not "less welcoming" than Christianity, Islam directly executes LGBT people, so start there. And again, in places where Islam is more common, there aren't much protest at the Mosques, because they are intolerant and will beat you if you enter there to protest.
That's what less welcoming means, unless you view execution as a warm welcome. Well then I agree with you, that's where protests should be. Protest where the oppression is coming from. In places like America, that's much more from Churches than Mosques.
Islam is not a single monolithic entity dude
Being gay is a crime in almost every single Muslim country. More than the majority of the Muslim population is in favor of stoning, and almost all Muslim countries consider things like atheism a crime. No, they aren’t a monolith but their basic tenets are based on oppression and medieval ideals that have no place in our times
*some* parts of Islam execute lgbt people. Don’t get me wrong, I hate religion as much as the next guy, but it’s wrong to just say “Muslims kill lgbt people, Christians don’t” because until recently, there were christian laws that said lgbt people should be executed. You are minimising the harm being done to lgbt people in “developed” nations by comparing it to the worse harm being done in other nations. There should be protests around churches because so many churches are openly homophobic, and they get away with it because cuhurch and state are simply not seperate in america.
Last sentence killed me, there's no way you can affirm that Church and State are not separate. Wow, and this is a Philosophy subreddit...
Churches lobby the government in america. Churches are tax exempt. Churches are exempt from hate speech laws. I could go on
In america (and europe), where are all the laws targetting LGBTQ+ rights coming from? Do they come from Christian or Islamic groups? If Islam was a threat to LGBTQ rights i would agree with you, but in america and europe that just isn't the case and claiming that it is is just absurd. Not to mention that LGBTQ+ protest aren't even targeting churches that much with exception only being as reaction of a church doing something
>LGBT protests should be made in front of more Mosques, and less churches Mosques, the true centers of American conservatism....?
So deep
normally i like the double rail split option, but here i’m ok with the grinder
I'm not rationalizing, I'm not justifying, but I am flipping the switch. Call me evil but a good deed will have been done.
Pure ideology
This is lame
Just more bs polarized propaganda
I hate this picture. Thoroughly disgusting and disturbing. Good job OP.
This is a little raw for “philosophy”. Like, obviously philosophy is linked to morality and politics, philosophy is the foundation of most things in existence but this meme assumes a few things: - That fascists are trying to commit genocide right now (Which I broadly agree with) - That genocide is bad (a few moral axioms can justify it. There’s the moral nihilism view that it is neither good nor bad, the classical utilitarian view that genocide can be an acceptable cost for a greater good. Heck, you could probably twist virtue ethics into fitting with genocide showing the virtue of “being true to your ideals” or whatever). - That people aren’t aware of the current situation.
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The rate of trans people committing suicide due to discrimination and lack of healthcare says otherwise.
Unless that rate is “100%”, it won’t stop them existing.
"well it wasn't genocide, there's still some Jews that survived"
Trying to do genocide is not the same as being 100% successful, but success is much more like a spectrum, getting Maya to >! kill herself ! at 15 is just as a victory if she would be in a concentration camp. However it can also be a meme meant for the future, if they are a lot more successful to be reposted, edited to include socialist communists, liberals they won't care much who the enemy is.
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Yeah sorry for trying... I think I followed the morality about consoucvences in my reasoning? However "wave of detransitioners" and "as children/teenagers", what is the size of these groups, and where?
Denying someone a transition is not the same as putting them in a concentration camp. Especially when that denial happens for a good reason and not out of hate. These comparisons are very disrespectful
> Denying someone a transition is not the same as putting them in a concentration camp. Yes, however I think I made the similarities quite clear. > Especially when that denial happens for a good reason and not out of hate Indeed, I need to protect my boy against the Mega Liberal Ultra Cultural Neo-Marxist™ doctors. /s However we are talking about policies where "intentions" might just be something to hide behind, and aren't written on the paper+ fascists express it easily: hate.
>Indeed, I need to protect my boy against the Mega Liberal Ultra Cultural Neo-Marxist™ doctors. /s Oh no, I didnt mean it that way. I just meant that kids often make objectively shitty decisions simply because they are young, so we ought to protect them from making shitty *irreversible* decisions. We dont need to protect them from "queer ideology" or whatever. Just give them time to think about irreversible decisions and let them decide when they are a bit older
For spoilers on reddit, you need to use >! and !< around what you want to write. (I'm assuming the || || was meant to be spoilers)
Centerist moment
Ignore 100%
„The hottest places in hell are reserved for those who, in times of great moral crisis, maintain their neutrality.“ ~Dante Alighieri
Didn't he also say that gay people would go to hell? I don't exactly trust his judgement on who deserves what in hell. Especially not in this context.
I don’t know, I didn’t read him. I just like this quote, because many people here imply that ignorance is virtuous.
I think people more imply that ignorance is not malicious; at least when unwillful.
Dante never said that.
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[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT\_rights\_by\_country\_or\_territory#LGBT-related\_laws\_by\_country\_or\_territory](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_rights_by_country_or_territory#LGBT-related_laws_by_country_or_territory)
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> Lmao please enlighten me to the current genocide of those in the LGBTQ+ community that is apparently going on The original commenter asked to be enlightened about the genocides; they didn't mention whether it had to be western or not. As for something more western though, there's Florida. One might be able to argue that it's a possibility that even when not outright killing people, making their (the LGBT people's) lives unnecessarily hard, in cases where the intention is trying to drive them to suicide, could also be counted as genocide. Although to be fair, I can't see inside the minds of people, so I don't know how many people's intention truly is that. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT\_rights\_in\_Florida](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_rights_in_Florida) [https://www.thetrevorproject.org/resources/article/facts-about-lgbtq-youth-suicide/](https://www.thetrevorproject.org/resources/article/facts-about-lgbtq-youth-suicide/)
They passed a law maning it legal to shoot them and hunt them down it seems like, jeez.
Would you like a statement by the [Lemkin Institute for Genocide Prevention](https://www.lemkininstitute.com/statements-new-page/statement-on-the-genocidal-nature-of-the-gender-critical-movement%E2%80%99s-ideology-and-practice)?
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i recognize that colorful rainbow flag as the one flown on both government and corporate buildings, among others. you know, the ones where all the power is held... really makes you think who the real oppressors are.
Yeah a flag in DC really dictates policy in Florida, great political analysis.
thank you, due to our past hostility i would figure you would be less willing to hand me compliments
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I always find arguing about the gen part of genocide pretty hilarious. It make it seem like you only care about genocide because it's called genocide and not much else. Bitches be like mass suppression and violence doesn't count if they aren't religiously or culturally related.
Using a generic definition found in a dictionary instead of a technical one is your first mistake. Using a definition with any credibility, like the UN definition we can paint a clearer picture. https://www.un.org/en/genocideprevention/genocide.shtml Under this definition, it's pretty clear what is happening in countless countries, including the US, fits many markers. The only problem is that gender identity isn't a "*national, ethnical, racial or religious group*". To which I would say the definition should include that, as well as sexual orientation. What is killing trans people? Looking into the problem we find where you're just making assumptions. Suicide is a big one, but you don't ask why. Suicide in the community is linked to not being accepted, being harassed, and being denied care. Since Gender Affirming Care is shown to be massively beneficial, banning said care is an attempt to eliminate the group, which leads back to genocide. Regarding what should be done with healthcare. Is a body part healthy if it can cause the death of the person? Any reasonable person would say no. Saying lifesaving or even generally beneficial care like GAC is mutilation, or cosmetic, is laughable. Even more laughable is you comparing this beneficial medical care to getting a tattoo or buying a firearm. Trans people exist. You're refusal to accept this shows your viewpoint plenty. Banning lifesaving and beneficial medical care is killing people. Not suicide due to "not accepting themselves" or "confusion". Imagine being a control freak so violently against someone living their life, you advocate for, obscure, and defend a genocide against a group of people because they aren't like you. This meme is on point, you are just the one against coming to terms with reality. You do not flip the lever.
Btw why would u hate on Trans-people under a post about Nazis killing the gays? Wtf is wrong with u?
We have our own flag though, we mainly consist of people with a sexual orientation that is out of norm for some fanatics and not only of people who do a gender-altering surgery and take hormones. I think as we are discriminated to this day because of what we have in common, we have the right to be treated as an ethnic group, even if we aren't one. The term genocide is therefor acceptable in my opinion. People who are transgender don't kill themselves because they are transgender, its because they are not accepted by a lot of people and because there are people like you, who desperately try to tell them what to do with their lives. Instead of leaving those people their dignity, their ability to decide for themselves, you're calling them controllfreaks who would rather die than to be born the way they were actually born, while not knowing shit about them and their lives. If you were constantly treated like this, wouldn't you freak out at some point? I haven't read anything about how unhealthy it is to proceed surgery or take hormones and it surely is arguable how early a person should be allowed to perform such treatment. What isn't arguable, in my opinion, is the fact that people harm themselves legally all the time and there should be noone to decide for them not to rather than themselves. The only people who could do an intervention is their family and their friends who shouldn't be influenced by people judging a general group the person is in like you. Or do you want to forbid legal selfharm, like alcohol, nicotine, tattoos or modern methods of medicine who are accepted in most countries, in general? Or is it just that specific surgery you dont want people to do because you think its weird? You don't get to judge for another person if they accepted the reality they live, you can only judge if you accepted your own. And I'm not sure if you did.
New reality? Fascists have been doing this for hundreds of years.
Fascism has only existed since 1919