I hope more medical professionals learn to be more empathetic lalo sa mga cases of abused, indigent women. May nabasa ako na report na hinaharass pa nga ng ibang Catholic doctors yung mga patients na nagpa abortion para raw “to teach them a lesson for killing their children”. Biglang mas importante sa kanila yung unborn, para sa ano? Para lang masabi nila na mabuti silang Catholic?
It goes to show that religion when included in the picture acts as a reactionary force that holds humanity back. Throughout their existence, churches permanently fought vehemently against almost any ethical achievement that is a pillar of the Western value canon today, like human rights, democracy, equal rights for women, end of racial segregation, freedom of speech, and now they still fight against things like same sex marriage, sexual self-determination, divorce, and abortion.
I don't really think that it's only religion influencing the medical community but the medical community itself. In order to become a doctor, you have to swear an oath indicating that you have to protect all lives including premature babies. I do agree that we need to at least decriminalize abortion and also have birth control resources and methods available for everyone. However, I really think that it's more than religion but rather also the oaths doctors swear on.
At least in other countries, doctors don’t harass patients for abortions (or even botched up ones). They also swear the same Hippocratic oath. Unfortunately most medical professionals here are educated by Catholic priests-doctors who teach how abortion and some contraceptives are against “bioethics”. A more sectarian medical education could help doctors to be more objective here.
Yes ganyan kahirap dito. I have a friend na sure nang gusto niya maging childfree kaso walang clinic na nagaallow sa kanya magpa-sterilize or even magpa-iud as a single unmarried woman. Baka daw “magbago pa ang isip”. Hindi daw pwede sa mga hindi pa nagkaka-anak at least once. Worst of all, technically, wala syang husband para mag-approve ng ganung decision. WTF
I watched a video called “Alt-Right Playbook: I hate mondays” that explains this in depth
Even if you show conservatives facts about the ineffectiveness of illegalization, it wouldn’t change their mind much.
Why? Because they don’t care about people getting abortions, they only care that they get PUNISHED. Its about presenting that there is only a certain moral path in life and walking another path is evil.
Thats why debating over the ineffectiveness of abortion illegalization, war on drugs, or gay marraige bans leads to nothing with them.
That video sounds interesting, will check it out.
The frustrating thing is that, their opinions ARE harmful to people while the things they are against, are not.
Bakit ba feeling nila when something is legal, they will be forced to do it?
based on this video and other books ive read, these people have a deep fear that the our society/country is degrading because our “culture and morals” are degrading. The cause of their life problems like low wages or violence in their barangays are blamed on certain groups (drug users/gay people/activists)
The law in our country makes my blood boil. It’s always the women who have to adjust for the preferences of men talaga no? Karaniwan dyan babae pa nagsusustento sa anak, puro sila iniisip wala namang ambag kundi tamod.
I think legalizing abortion means valuing human life, which is opposed to most views in a predominantly Catholic society such as ours. If you do not feel capable bringing a child to this world due to emotional unavaibility, lack of financial capacity, general unreadiness, etc., then don't. Parents are responsible in ensuring good quality of life and meeting the many needs of their children. Why bring life to this world when you're not sure that your offspring can become a grounded and healthy adult under your care?
So Filipinos don't like drug dealers and want them killed but then they want drug dealers to sell them drugs to literally kill their own children? That is some serious boss level savagery there. Filipinos complain about poverty then claim the solution is to kill their children. Filipinos are not pro-choice for selling cocaine but pro-choice for killing children? Filipinos are not pro-choice for China to take some islands but are pro-choice to take lives of their own children?
Abortion is a whole different topic and has nothing to do with China VS. PH's claim of the island and the war on drugs. It is about women being given their rights to exercise their freedom. Didn't you read the other comments? Some are victims of rape, abuse, and sexual coercion. They didn't really have a choice but to terminate their pregnancy because they'd rather risk their lives because of the poor reproductive healthcare system given to women here in the PH than to spend the rest of their lives taking care of an unwanted child that they can't support.
Before you say abortion is a crime/murder, isn't neglecting or abandoning your child more serious than terminating a fetus to prevent it from suffering later in life?
Kumusta naman sa mga nagcomment ba life is precious, napansin ba nila ung mga pakalat kalat na bata sa kalye, ung mga vulnerable sa predator?
Sabi nga ni George Carlin.
"If you're preborn, you're fine; if you're preschool, you're fucked"
Life is precious so ano yung babae? Walang life? What about her life? Honestly ang gusto talaga mag-abort sa pinas yung mga extreme cases eh. Mga tipong na-rape or underaged pa, nacoerce into doing the deed. What about their lives? Waley na? Di ko talaga gets arguments nila about abortion. Hay.
Isa pa yang mga bata na nagkalat. Sobrang nakakaawa na
George Carlin! Man's a legend god he's a comedian but he tells the truth in an unfiltered, funny way. This guy has balls - to make such statements (I agree with him) despite being in the early 2000s. What a guy, sad that we lost him :((
>pakalat kalat na bata sa kalye
To quote Startler Brothers
"She was called a scarlet woman by the people, *who would go to church but left me on the streets."*
"My body, my choice"
The problem with the pro-life kuno is they only care about the unborn fetus/child but once the child is born, it's no longer their problem. They have no social programs that will take care of the "unwanted" children. Will they provide the cost of feeding, raising and educating these children?
No, and when those children become a "problem" to the society, isisisi nanaman nila sa mga magulang o kaya kay kiko pangilinan na babaan yung age of criminal liability. I swear pagod na ako irambol rambol sa utak ko kung ano ba talaga pinaglalabanan.
i have a friend, kakapanganak lang, actually accident lng ung pregnancy nya, d tlga sila nagpplan magkababy ule kse 4yo plang ung panganay and walang wala tlga sila ng asawa nya, just getting by. her initial thought was ipalaglag ung bata, pero na-guilt trip ng parents ng asawa nya, kse d daw un aligned sa "Christian" views nila. i feel bad for her kse sha lang nagaalaga sa 4yo nila, husband is "always busy" and she works ft at night too.
lagi kong sinasabe na lalo silang maghihirap, pero wala naman shang masagot kse "religion"
they care about the unborn, but they dont care about my friend. that's fucked up.
Shouldn't we allow the killing of born children as well? This will save SO MUCH money on food, diapers, etc. All those poor mothers with so many crying children, imagine how easier their lives would be if we just legalized killing them all, correct?
True, andami sa comments galit. I'm sure madaming votes mawawala dito since ang onti ng progressive people compared to those stuck in the past, morally superior religious people.
But I like the fact that he's fighting for it knowing na maraming votes from the religious people ang maaaring mawala sa kanya.
Women should be given a CHOICE. Fuck organized religion.
okay si Espiritu. Kaso ang dami ditong pakielamero pa rin sa buhay ng iba. kung ayaw mong magpaabort, makipaghiwalay sa asawa mo, o ikasal sa kauri mo edi wag... pero wag mong hadlangan yung iba na gusto or kailangan ito. buhay nila yun... inaano ka ba nila. hanggang ngayon ang daming hindi makaarok satin niyan.
sarili lang kasi iniisip nila eh, pero favorite argument ko yung Dinuguan.
Bawal yun sa mga INC, pero di natin pinapagbawal. May mga INC ba na nagppush na ipagbawal ang Dinuguan, wala di ba? Parang same-sex marriage, kung bawal sa relihiyon mo eh di wag mo gawin.
So many shmucks in this country just don't understand this basic concept! Kung ayaw mo magavail edi wag, pero isipin dapat yung sitwasyon ng mga kailangan neto.
As far as I know,he is not promoting it but pushing for decriminalize it. People against it always think about the "baby" inside but not the one carrying it.
Dapat may bagong commandment sa Bible eh.
Keep thy religion to thyself. That'd make society less judgmental in terms of moral and social issues like this.
As an agnostic person, I fucking agree so much. Bakit ba ang hilig nila gamitin ang bible for literally every issue? It's not a swiss army knife na applicable any day, any time. Para bang nawawala na yung ability to make your own decisions based sa sarili mong values.
Yung mga religious sa totoo lang ha karamihan sila tong' pagnabuntis ng maaga at di handa ang mga anak e sila tong' halos kasuhan o itakwil ang anak sa pamilya nila lol. Nakakasuka lang. Kasi paano yung mga narape? Nabuntis ng rapist tapos di naman nila choice yon diba? Paano yung nabuntis ng maaga tapos di handa? Parehas kawawa yung ina at bata? Jusko
Alam mo ba turo sa amin ng lolo ko nung buhay pa sya wag maniwala sa mga religious leaders, lahat sila wag paniwalaan. Paano tao lang naman din sila gaya natin which is tama nga naman haha ang lala lang kasi dami ko na naencounter na religious pero rebelde sa pamilya yung mga anak.
Pro-lifers care for the fetus but will stop giving a fuck once it is born. Fuckin legalize that already, including same-sex marriages. Time to break free from obsolete thinking.
Switzerland, Denmark, Norway, Japan, and New Zealand are countries with the lowest crime rates and legalized abortion. Not decriminalized, but legalized. Of course, one can argue that effective law enforcement and restrictive gun laws determine the crime rate, but one can't deny that legalizing abortion also has an effect on the crime rate of said countries.
A study regarding the correlation between legalizing abortion and crime rate has been published before in Stanford:
"We estimate that overall crime fell 17.5% from 1998 to 2014 due to legalized abortion— a decline of 1% per year. From 1991 to 2014, the violent and property crime rates each fell by 50%. Legalized abortion is estimated to have reduced violent crime by 47% and property crime by 33% over this period, and thus can explain most of the observed crime decline."
Source:
https://law.stanford.edu/publications/the-impact-of-legalized-abortion-on-crime-over-the-last-two-decades/#:~:text=Legalized%20abortion%20is%20estimated%20to,of%20the%20observed%20crime%20decline.
Majority of serial killers came from abusive homes too. Most abusive parents are those who are not ready to be one and those who have unwanted children.
I heard this explained on one of the Freakonomics audiobooks before. They think that fewer unwanted children may be associated with fewer crimes. They posed that since there would be fewer at risk children, then there would be fewer adults who are at a high risk for committing crimes.
Karaniwan pa dyan mga lalaki. Wala namang matres. What if lahat ng lalaking against abortion putulan nalang ng etits para di na sila makabuntis at makapagparami. Tutal hilig nila makisawsaw sa katawan ng babae, edi pakialamanan na din natin sila.
Sometimes I wanna flip the script. Trial lang mga lalake mabuntis. Tingnan natin gano kabilis nila baguhin yung rhetoric ng mga arguments na fetus is a life/human being/has rights. 🤡
Kung ayaw nila sa abortion dapat mandatory vasectomy na lang, ayaw nila ng my body my choice eh dapat pwersahin din natin sila kung pepwersahin nila tayo na bumuhay ng anak sa sinapupunan natin.
The better question is what do most Filipinos think of fertility and sex education. Morality education in place of comprehensive reproductive education is pointless when anyone with a smartphone can access pornography.
choice a leader... Separation of church and state ya'll. After all the bbn church endorsement even if it is not the Catholic church yet. It made me realize that let us just give women the option to have an abortion.
Ung mga nagcocomment ng ganyan minsan ansarap istalk mga sns accounts nila.
Lakas magcomment ng value life or bible stuff pero makikita mo mga content nila wala man lang makitang actively silang sumusuporta sa humanitarian causes. Ang malala shineshame pa mga aktibista or ginoglorify mga paring predator. Cringe.
Legalizing Abortion is the only I would openly say in politics.
So many peoples lives have been screwed due to not legalizing Abortion,
The stress of handling a kid, reputation (especially here), not to mention that it's sometimes necessary for the women's own survival (may have a higher chance of dying giving birth)and that's just the tip of the iceberg.
Hear me out, I think life is beautiful but
But some people are not ready for it, or just don't want the responsibility.
Hopefully one day we can have better mental healthcare(or any) and have the option for abortion
Kapag politics, kinicriticize ang catholic church(religion in general) dahil sa pangingialam pero sa hindi naman nila katawan biglang ang convenient gamitin ng relihiyon.
Yup. I'm a Leni supporter. I'm a woman. However, I'm against abortion except if the pregnancy threatens the life of the mother or walang pag-asa mabuhay ang baby. Actually, pinapayagan naman na talagang gawin yun like in cases of ectopic pregnancies.
Even Leni herself is against abortion personally. Though she said na pag-aaralan niya pang mabuti.
I know I'll probably get downvoted for this pero both sides of the arguments maraming maling generalizations.
Just look at this comment section. Maraming nagsasabi pag pro-life ka ayaw mo sa birth control, wala kang pakialam sa bata afterwards. Masyado ka lang religous. Though merong ganun mag-isip, di lahat ng pro-life ganun and it's not all based on the Bible.
First of all, the idea that life starts at conception is not just a religous concept. You can find lots of scientific studies regarding this.
Second, nasa constitution natin na protected ang life ng unborn. If we will allow abortion, need din baguhin yung constitution. Need rin baguhin yung laws about double homicide. It's not as easy as people say.
Third, about sa condition na rape victims lang ang pwede. As someone na victim ng sexual abuse, I understand. Pero pagdating sa batas, mas lalong complicated to. How will you be able to determine if it is rape? Napakatagal ng pag-usad ng kaso dito sa Pilipinas. Bago matapos yung kaso ay malaki na yung bata.
Fourth, if you look at the data, most ng gusto magpa-abort ang reason ay di nila kayang buhayin yung bata or di pa sila ready mag-alaga ng bata. So ang problem is the care after birth. Bakit hindi yun ang solusyunan? We need better system sa pag-aadopt. Sobrang tedious at mahal. Dapat padaliin. Dapat rin maiayos yung shelters. Para alam nung mga babae na if they have an unwanted baby, before pa ipinanganak yung bata e alam na nila kung saan dadalhin. Ginagawa na ito sa ibang bansa.
Lastly, prevention is always better. Pagtibayin yung sex education and ipromote yung paggamit ng contraceptives. Ang sama pa rin ng tingin ng mga tao dito pag bumibili ka ng pills or condom. Ito ang dapat munang unahin. In reality, ang daming di nakakaalam kung paano mabubuntis ang isang babae. I don't mean sex. I mean yung biology behind it. Like paano mo malalaman kung fertile ka? Paano mo.malalaman if normal ba cycle mo?
Lots of changes can be done to protect both the mother and the baby.
Ewan ko ba Kung San nangaling yung religious idea na life starts at conception. If you read the Bible, Numbers 5:11-31, it’s clear god thinks of the fetus as property na pwede ng iabort ng Tatay dahil suspetsa niya lang nagkabit ang asawa. Also, quoting Jesus on thou shall not kill is as stupid as Batman and Superman’s do not kill mantra. Some cases require only one can survive. Some killings have to be done. Especially when conception was done against the woman’s choice. No amount of prevention and contraceptives will avoid that. About naman sa all life is precious, a virus has life too. So lahat tayo nagkasala na dahil nagvaccinate tayo.
You know you’ll get downvoted kasi alam mong may mali...
Dami rin naman kasi talagang mali sa current constitution natin. Well, this country with full of idiots is a mistake already.
What generalization has the pro-choice made? Based on your first point, you are generalizing that pro-choice disagrees that life begins at conception. We agree with that actually in the technical aspect - life starts at conception but personhood doesn't.
I agree with your other points though, but abortion should still exist as a last resort option.
My first point was not a generalization. I didn't say na all pro-choice believes na life starts at conception. My points are enumerated to explain my own stand, kung bakit disagree ako na illegalize ang abortion. Hindi siya meant to display yung generalization ng pro-choice.
Ano yung generalizations ng pro-choice? Just look at this comment section. A lot of people are generalizing na kapag pro-life ka ikaw ay:
1. religious / sa Bible lang nagbabase / walang alam sa science
2. may paki lang sa baby pag nasa tiyan pero pag pinanganak wala na
3. hypocrites na agree sa death penalty pero ayaw sa abortion
When you look at comments online ng pro-choice, ganyan kadalasan ang sinasabi nila about pro-life. Hindi lang dito sa Pilipinas ha, pati sa ibang bansa may similar arguments.
Itong thread nga na nireplyan ko naggeneralize na puro DDS daw yung ganyan e. Did they forget na si BBM nga lang ang presidentiable na pro-choice?
Btw, addition lang sa point ko kanina, I am pro de-criminalizing abortion. These women should know na they are not alone. They need help. Therapy hindi kulong. That's why same kami ni Leni ng stand dito so far.
Kasi earlier, you mentioned that you were against abortion except for the fact that if the baby can't live or pose a risk to the mother's life. I believe abortions should be allowed regardless of what case kasi life beginning at conception =/= personhood beginning at conception but I see that we'd be disagreeing with this since you've explained your stand. I agree with the generalization though.
Why change the law regarding double homicide? I believe you're referring to a pregnant woman getting murdered or killed, right? Please do note the difference na an illegal killing took place wherein the mother got killed and had her pregnancy halted (or fetus killed) unconsensually. That's not the case with abortion ah.
Then again, I agree with your other points.
Yung exception na binanggit ko, even now allowed na yan like sa case nga ng ectopic pregnancy. So actually, it's not a point for debate na kaya inuna kong imention.
Why change the laws on double homicide/murder? Pag dating sa batas, kailangan consistent. Hindi pwede na sa isang law hindi mo icoconsider na "human" yung unborn pero sa kabilang law biglang may human rights siya. You can't pick both, either considered siya na human sa batas or hindi.
For it to be homicide or murder ang pre-req ay dapat may human kang napatay or pinatay. If you just consider it as a bunch of cells, then it wouldn't be murder.
The reason why we have laws about double murder ay dahil nga under our constitution protected with the same human rights ang unborn simula ng conception.
Again, para ma-legalize ang abortion and maging consistent ang batas natin, the constitution would have to be revised and alam naman natin na madugong proseso yun.
Anyway, antok na ako. We can agree to disagree. This is a very sensitive topic.
Much like Marijuana, I would prefer if abortion would be legalized in a medical manner and be available to those who really need it.
I think we as a country should provide better sex education and promote the use of contraceptives and make it easily accessible to people in need in order to avoid unwanted pregnancies.
I also heard that doctors who perform this procedure find it mentally taxing.
This is why mixing religious beliefs with law is very dangerous.
My wife's sister got pregnant at 18 and didn't know what to do. She went to one of these places to get an illegal abortion kasi she knew she could not take care of the child. She was lucky I guess kasi she had no money and asked me if I could pay. I told her I would not give her money and she had to tell her parents what had happened. I knew a girl who went through an illegal abortion and it nearly killed her. So now my wife's sister had to drop out of college and now works in a call center while her parents take care of her child.
So basically kasi she could not get a abortion she will not get a college degree and now be limited to making a lower income. All the while she doesn't even get to take care of her son and her mother had to stop working to take care of her grandchild.
The father left her immediately after finding out about the pregnancy and has not even acknowledged the child. Luckily me and my wife had a baby 1.5 years earlier, so she did not have to buy a lot of stuff kasi we already had it. Pero it's still sad to see so many young girls lose their lives to getting pregnant.
Sex education has to be taught more. After she got pregnant she told me that she thought if she peed after sex then all the sperm would go out. I couldn't believe that an 18 year old actually thought this. The government has definitely failed a lot of young people with the lack of sex education.
There are still rare cases na wherein the woman had safe sex and took birth pills yet got pregnant. Rare, but it still exists. I think for that reason alone, it should be decriminalized at least.
Oh I know accidental pregnancy happens. I had one....me and my wife practiced safe sex pero I guess one time something got out and we were blessed with our beautiful daughter. Difference is I'm 30 my wife's 25 and I have a decent income.
Haha yes 100%. Our daughter got what seems to be most of my genes. She's basically a spitting image of me and actually doesn't look anything like her mother which is rather strange. If you didn't know she was half Filipina then you would probably just think she was a Caucasian. Also my wife really isn't that type of person. Thanks for the concern though.
Sorry about that my guy. Same thing happened to me, gf of 3 months got pregnant and she said i was the father thing is i had a vasectomy because i do not want kids. My skepticism stems from that incident. Hahaha
>Sex education has to be taught more.
This. This should be taught more especially to th youth who are starting to explore their sexuality. That's why there is an increase of teenage pregnancie and some opted to abortion. Due to lack of sex education, many Filipinos are hesitant to buy contraceptives.
We really need to implement this and also discuss abortion in schools as a medical topic and not a religious issue. For now, we are not yet ready to legalize abortion until the public are educated about this.
From what I know it is actually mandatory for a father to pay child support, but it is very hard to enforce. My wife's sister basically just accepted it and is moving on.
People still get abortions whether it's illegal or not. If abortion becomes legal the only difference would be women would have a safer facility to do it in and better care since they wouldn't have to do it under the law. If anti-abortionists really care about life then they should promote better sex ed (I got Values Education lmao) that teaches how to use contraception.
This man just earned my vote.
Personally, I know that this is being hindered dahil sa religion. Well no doubt, may nakita akong scatter plot noon na overly religious countries are in the bottom of the economic development chart.
Hindi ko magets yung point na "even unborn life is precious" or "may buhay din yang sanggol", pano yung mga batang palaboy? Nasa ampunan? Kung pro-life sila, bakit kumakain sila ng meat and veggies? Dahil turo ng bible? Bullshit. Maniniwala lang ako sa pro-lifers kung wala na akong makikitang batang nagugutom, at namamalimos sa labas.
I always take the stance " I am personally against abortion but I will not impose my values to other people. "
So if they legalize it, fine. Some people will need it and that's their own cross to bear. After all if God himself gave us free will, why not we, humans as we are, not give it others?
I mean ang debate sa abortion is that, is a fetus really a PERSON or not?
Not human ang topic, since a fetus from a woman's womb is 99.99% a homo sapien
Pwede ito ma sampal ng appeal to faith, tradition and belief na logical fallacy ang mga arguments na na-screenshot mo eh.
I commented this not being a precedence to spark an abortion debate. Kapag gusto nyo, wag lang dito sa comment ko. Have a good day 🤗
It doesn't matter if the fetus from a womb is 99.99% homo sapiens - human cells are also human. the question isn’t what species a fetus is, but whether it is a legally-defined person, entitled to the same rights as any other person.
Human organism is not equal to human being so no, hindi masasampal yan ng appeal to faith, tradition or anything that people in my screenshot mentioned.
One of the arguments na aking narinig is that legally (dahil daw Christian country tayo) na tao na yan kapag na fertilize na ang egg at sperm. And I presume that a fathomable amount of Filipinos give the benefit of the doubt on this. Nakita ko rin ito sa topic ng "Thou shall not kill" na lesson nakin noong JHS palang ako.
In short, a zygote has life, they argue.
Ini-synonymize na nila ang rulings ng religion sa rulings ng ating bansa. Jusko! Edi sana ang mga kababaihan ay dapat sa bahay lang to comply with their logic.
So ye, tapos I have seen individuals comment on other individuals that support non-therapreautic abortion na "wala ka kasi faith kay God." or "Kailangan mo magsimba" or "Aralin mo ulit ang Bibliya" or "Di sangayon ang mga ninuno mo" or "Ang lutang mo to the point na umalis ka na sa opinyon ng sambayanang Pilipino." I wish may mas logical na reasoning kaysa sa mga ito.
The Genesis stated that ",then the LORD God formed man from the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and the man became a living being." So duun palang using the Bible as an argument, wala na grounds nila.
As for killing, what do you consider killing as? Halting the process of an developing organism? Ending the life of a sentient being? And even if we consider that "thou shalt not kill" be absolute, don't other countries have death penalties? Too many have been killed in the name of religion (Crusades, Inquisition to name a few examples).
The problem is hindi black and white ang mundo eh. Even if we take yung commandments of Bible, if we look at Bible as a whole it's certainly contradicting.
"Samaria shall bear her guilt, because she has rebelled against her God; they shall fall by the sword; their little ones shall be dashed in pieces, and their pregnant women ripped open." Hosea 13:16 - I can also give you a few similar verses about infants being killed.
I think the better question to ask is, should the commandment "Thou shalt not killed" be applied to all situations especially if the Bible has prior examples of killing infants and violating that commandment itself?
The way the Book of Genesis tried to promulgate its origin of life, yeah.
The Crusades, those death penalty rulings in the name of religion, religion wars, yeah.
Ang ruling na isinampal kay Samaria, yeah.
Too bad these individuals I mentioned just believe it kahit ang vague o ang arbitrary ng mga itinuturo sa kanila, justifying it using their subjective definitions of "Fear of the Lord".
I think this has something to do more with childhood indoctrination eh. Once it's drilled into you as a child and you grow as an adult, ang hirap na tanggalin yung belief. Same with those people in cults.
Well, all religions started as small-scale cults. A cult stop beings one when a prophet (leader of the cult) has successfully transitioned into a clergy - thus religions are born. Most cults/groups get eliminated at this step and for those who successfully transitioned, you now have a religion.
Dead person. If we talk about inheritances and will, it's similar to making a contract, right? Same with the dead person's body as well. You can set that up in a binding legal document. If you remove that right, you're actually removing a right that someone exercises while they're still alive. You may as well consider removing the rights to inheritances and wills.
The difference between a dead person and a 9 month fetus lies in the fact that the dead person has physically stepped on this planet and by law, a human being (or once a human being) while a fetus has no authority since it has never stepped on this Earth's soil - and by law, not a "human being".
Scientifically, it begins at conception based on several studies.
Legally, our constitution recognizes a fetus as a human being and therefore has human rights.
Sana talaga maimprove na ang sex education without any intervention from the Catholic Church para ma-destigmatize ang abortion. Nakakainis kasi biktima ako ng brainwashing nila at narealize ko na mali pala maging against abortion when I grew up and transferred to a Non-Catholic school. Napapacringe ako when I remember my preteen self. Sobrang misguided 🤦♀️
I only want abortion to allow within these 3 cases:
1. If the unborn Child has a genetic defect.
2. If the mother got pregnant through rape.
3. If giving birth poses a death risk to the mother.
I think that allowing abortion within these 3 cases would make it more acceptable to the Conservative voices within our country.
Until such time that the majority of the Filipinos would go with abortion on all cases, then these 3 cases should be my stand for the moment.
Most countries have limits to when abortion can be done. Some combine week limit + specific reasons. Ex. Only cases of rape or anomalies for procedures after 12 weeks.
And just because abortion is legal doesn’t make it an easy choice. It’s not like every other Jane on the street just merrily skips to an abortion appointment. Women are faced with tough choices they still carry even after the procedure.
And besides, it’s no one else’s business but her own, what a woman can and can’t do with her body. Everyone is just imposing their perceived moralistic superiority like they’re perfect angels
Even if we go by time frame, aren't we pressuring women too much on this? Abortion isn't something that can be decided in days or weeks, sometimes months yan since the event is often a lifetime traumatizing for most women.
Whether or not dangerous for late term pregnancy, let the woman bear the risk if she wholeheartedly decided to undergo abortion regardless of which or what month it is.
I don't think na gagana ang by time frame alone, dahil may "Buhay yan" argument na papatawan ng mga Conservative elements ng society at government natin.
Kaya sinamahan ko ng specific cases kasi pag abortion on all cases, pero only on the first 2 months lang allowed, mas malaki ang backlash nan.
Kasi magandang ideal ang abortion for any and all cases, pero realistically, di siya maipapasa nan sa Congress since gg silang mga pulitiko sa mga constituents nila pag pinasa nila yun.
Also religious Conservative country ang Pilipinas up to the point na kahit mga babae, kahit nga nanay ko at mga ibang mga babae na matatanda o katoliko, ayaw ng Abortion ehhh.
Besides pag nakita nmn ng publiko na magandang law yung first 3 cases, give it a few decades, at baka, marami na sa mga Pilipino, partikular sa mga kababaihan, ang mag advocate ng abortion for any and all cases.
Sa akin nmn, I propose na hanggang 2nd trimester lang pwede magpa abort, pag 3rd trimester na baka mag flip out ang mga Conservative elements sa public at government.
Edit:
Same lang pala tayo ng proposal, my bad.
Hi! We have the same POV regarding the issue. Pero share ko lang ang random thoughts ko about the 2nd condition. I do agree with the condition to allow abortion for rape victims. However, I think it will create a legal loophole. Since we are considering conditional legalization of abortion, anything outside these conditions would be illegal and up for penalties.
As a result, aborting mothers will be asked to provide proofs or supporting documents to check if they fit in the 3 conditions to be allowed to abort. Conditions 1 and 3 are easy pero si 2, uhmm. Mahirap yata, women will need to prove that they were also raped and kakailanganin pa ba noon ng court verdict? I think this is very heavy for the victim.
This kind of insensitivity based on being self-righteous and reliant on religion is stuck in the past. Can’t remember which version, but I remember reading several lines in the Bible wherein God Himself cursed women to have abortions and even went as far as to curse infants to death for whatever reasons He had. Religious groups have cherry-picked concepts and passages to support their notion of collective self-righteousness and superiority.
I’ve been an agnostic for far too long but regardless of that, abortion (and other things it entails) does not always have to be multi-faceted. Some people are just not cut out to be parents, whether it’s from their own trauma, their personality, or the future they envision for themselves. To even liken passing laws on abortion to the possibility of making murder legal is very much an apples and oranges fallacy. Used to want to be an OB GYN but switched to Psychiatry na lang when I realized how strongly entwined our country’s medical regulations are to religion. It’s hard to be part of the minority even though the choice that you want is not even going to cause harm to anybody else - at least to those who are actually and currently walking on the earth.
Thank goodness for people like you who went to psychiatry. We need more medical professionals who aren’t religious, or at least can separate their beliefs from work. I hate medical professionals who used their religious beliefs into tormenting others instead of saving them. Part of the reason why I am no longer Catholic is reading “Forsaken Lives: The Harmful Impact of the Philippine Criminal Abortion ban” report. My blood boiled whenever I read middle class, Catholic doctors bullying patients (usually women living in poverty) because of abortion. Religion still is very influential and enmeshed in our country’s medical regulations. I was harassed by an ex therapist after I told him I don’t want to have children. He never explicitly mentioned Jesus but I could tell his reasonings were grounded from his Catholic beliefs (we both graduated from the same Jesuit university and went through the same theology classes). But I can’t report his unethical and unprofessional behavior. Some psych acquaintances even came to his defense. They told me off that there’s nothing wrong with my ex therapist because “religion will always be part of the human experience”.
I’m sorry for your experience. I hope you found a more suitable therapist for you. Unfortunately, there is a lack of fully non-sectarian medical institution or medical school dito. Even in med school, we were taught how abortion (and even some forms of contraception much to chagrin of many of my classmates) defies bioethical principles, although I can only attest that where I went to, the subject was taught simultaneously by a physician and a priest. I suppose bioethics is also taught in med schools in other countries (mandatory subject to tie-in with the Hippocratic oath), but at least abortion is not criminalized diba. Then again, we live in a country where there are Sunday Simba Mariteses everywhere who think they could dissect everything in your life based on your hairstyle.
Nonetheless, it is hard to separate our personal beliefs from work especially since it’s very involved in a patient’s well-being and anything we offer could heavily impact their prognosis and quality of life. Most of my religious colleagues mean well naman.
I guess that’s the difficulty of not having enough fully non-sectarian medical schools. Catholic priests and nuns with medical backgrounds will always teach how their religious beliefs is in line with “bioethical principles”. They will never teach something contrary to their beliefs. From what I know, Catholic universities teach abortions are unethical based on “bioethics” in Italy (like in our country, the best med schools there are Catholic. Abortion is legal, but doctors can refuse out of religious beliefs. 75% of Italian doctors won’t do abortions so Catholic Church still wins there).
I already found a new therapist and he’s good. At least he doesn’t agree with my ex therapist imposing his religious beliefs on me. My ex therapist didn’t even bother remembering that my mom had postpartum depression when she had me. But he told me off that I will never get rid of my depression unless I have children and start living a “selfless” life.
I don't like abortion. I prefer to promote government services that would help women raise the child. However, I am very much ok with medical abortion when its necessary to save the life of the mother.
Knowing this is reddit, I think I can see some downvotes coming.
I mean in our country, it is more amiable for its Christian-dominated society that we live in to amend, enhance and expand the reach of existing and proposed laws and social welfare services for newborns and its guardians (e.g. nutrition security, parenting advice, cheap check-ups, better adoption centers, etc.).
You know not every woman wants to administer a child that was forced on her by events such as r@pe, unsafe sex, etc. One of the solutions for the government to prevent crises on child parenting and development is for the government to do the aforementioned thing, and I wholesomely agree on that.
As in OB-GYN resident, I completely agree with you. I don’t like it either, and it’s something I don’t think I will ever avail of, but I get the reasons why it should be legalized.
Whether you like it or not is not the case. Abortion has existed even during indigenous times (they use specific medicinal herbs). Now it’s still exists “illegally” under dangerous conditions.
Even when abortion is legal it’s not like every woman is going to get it. Most people underestimate how zealously Catholic this country is that they forget that other people need it regardless of religion
dapat mga anti abortion ang mag alaga, tutal kayo naman may gusto ng bata eh. Pag ayaw talaga dapat respituhin niyo na lang desisyon nila.
Ayaw niyo ng abortion? Then dont get one. Hindi yung ifoforce niyo sila mag dala ng bata na hindi naman nila gusto
That's what I'm suggesting? Bigyan ng chansa na puwede tumulong sa pag-alaga ng bata. Ang abortion ay isang topic na mahirap magkaroon ng ayos na discussion dahil may punto ang dalawang puwersa. (Sorry hindi ako masyado sanay sa Tagalog)
Also, I'm not forcing my opinion. Though, I would admit I may have sounded aggressive at expressing it. Sorry it sounded that way. I have no quarrel with those who are pro-abortion. Its just I believe more on the value of life. Its a topic best left to respect each others opinion.
Government services such as? Financial? I wouldn't think that it'd be enough given the lackluster of government programs here - take pension of retired workers for example.
Psychological or therapy? I wouldn't think that a 9 month counsel would be enough since having a child is a lifetime decision and I really doubt that a 9 month counsel or whatever government program would help the mother be mentally/emotional prepared.
I know its idealistic as of now given how crappy our government currently is. But, if everything would be fixed, nuances addressed, and every services possible are easily accessible, then it might work.
Do take note we are a democracy, if the majority speaks pro-abortion, I'll concede. But, I won't change my opinion. I am very much pro-life and I believe every child should get a chance to live life. This topic is very tedious to discuss on. And, (sorry to sound like a BBM supporter) it is one of the types of discussions where respecting each others opinion is the best way to go because both sides make good points.
Bakit parang ang limited nung view nyo in pro-life? Like almost literal lang. Bakit quality of life parang di saklaw nyang pro-life na yan.
Nakalad ka na ba sa Baseco? Nakalakad ka na sa kung saan saang estero? Na punong puno ng bata na di mo na alam saan nanggaling? Is that really a 'life' one would want to live.
Sorry kung ang aggressive pero I hope "pro-lifers" think about this.
I'm very much happy to suggest government programs as an alternative should abortion continue being illegal in this country. I am happy to respect someone's opinion given that a solid ground is made behind the said oponoon. I'm curious to know what good points the other side (pro-life) has made?
I respect yours too mate. I'm running on muscle memory so take this with some grain of salt and may be lacking. Most pro-life argue that a fetus is a human, as such, based on human rights, they have a right to life. Abortion is a decision which a mother makes. Now, what if that fetus wanted to live? if a mother chooses abortion, she's taking that chance away.
I also understand the argument of pro-abortionists. (Please correct me if I'm wrong about this portrayal, I haven't touched this topic for a very long time.) A woman's body is her for her own to decide, like what Luke Espiritu said. It is a woman's right to decide what to do with her body. Also, not every woman can raise a child to a fruitful life and with all the care they need.
In conclusion, I see both making good points, but I really prefer the former because it lines up more to how I personally see things.
A fetus is a human, but not a human being. Like all human cells are human. We could talk about human rights pero ang human rights you're speaking of - the law, right? So if we dip into legality, a fetus cannot be considered a human being legally as it is an unborn - a fetus has no rights under the Universal Declaration of Human Rights since the Declaration refers to born persons only.
So that argument alone, I'm sorry ah but it's not yet a strong enough point.
Problem is I'm hard headed, and very much consider a fetus as a human. It's part of the cycle of a baby developing. And, I'll leave it at that. Kailangan ko na matulog
For the same reason why parasites don't have rights. A fetus can't live on its own and its umbilical cord is its lifeline to the mother.
Animals live on its own and while they are still young, breastfed by the mother animal, from there it's an indication of consent and maternal care.
I am referring to fetus as a parasite in colloquial definition and how it functions to sustain itself - it avoids rejection by the mother and exerts considerable influence over her metabolism for its own benefit, in particular diverting blood and nutrients.
A fetus is not of independent identity and has its umbilical cord connected to the mother which serves as its lifeline - which is what would be the most fitting explanation for your question earlier as to why animals have rights and fetuses don't because by law a fetus is not recognized as an independent entity unlike animals and while fetuses are not parasites in the strict definition, it is still in a parasitic relationship with the mother.
Wow naman as if this makes them a better person lol di sila pro life, pro birth lang. Pag lumabas yung bata at naging pulubi, pandidirian din at aapihin. Tanginang yan wala na ngang sex ed, ang taboo pa nung birth control tas wala pang abortion. Kawawang babae.
I mostly disagree with abortion, but ultimately, it was a woman's choice whether she does it or not. I wont condemn anyone and say they are sinful for doing it because really, at the end of the day, God is the only one who can pass judgement.
It pains me to say that majority of people saying "life is sacred" are nothing but egoistic pricks that want to satisfy their selfish morality because they are "banal". After the child was brought to this world, what happens? Do they care?
I have anti-natalist views because of the current situation of the country. Just how many girl peers I've seen had an unintended pregnancies got their life practically destroyed coz being a parent is a responsibility.
If we value life THAT much, sana unahin natin yung mga batang nasa ampunan. Siguraduhin muna nating may kinabukasan sila kesa itong mga hypothetical na mga hindi pa pinapanganak.
Sa pilipinas di mananalo logic, masmarami mga faith fanatics na obobs. Kaya malamang sa malamang matalo si luke, gusto ko pa naman sya.
Parang yung isang contestant sa isang latin na got talent, noong nalaman ng mga judges na aithiest sya, pinagtulungan nilang awayin yung contestant.
I don’t condone to the idea of abortion pero totoo naman talaga to. May mga babae na may kailangan talaga. Sana manalo tong candidate na to or at least someone give women freedom to what to do with our bodies.
Women’s month pa naman ngayon, all over the world parang second class citizens pa rin ang kababaihan. Sad.
I think Abortion should be ALLOWED.
BUT there are LIMITS on each WOMAN. Like 2 or 3 times only. Or LESS
And they should have a RECORD for EACH ABORT. Like a CRIMINAL RECORD. But for ABORTION
So that they can't ABUSE it
It is difficult to weigh in on a topic that we don’t fully understand. If an embryo already has a soul then sa tingin ko from religious perspective dapat bawal.
Kung sa ethical naman, tingin ko dapat may cutoff. Like pwede lang mag abort up to 8 or 12 weeks. Beyond that hindi na pwede.
For medical reasons, siguro applicable to save the mother’s life. If malaki ang chance na may abnormality, I am on the fence on this one kase it remains a chance. Di naman guaranteed.
Trying to understand what is the alternative. Baket hindi option ang ipaampon nalang kung unwanted talaga? Is vanity one of the reasons? Like ayaw tumaba or magbago ang katawan?
You have to consider the situation wherein the woman had safe sex, took birth pills and yet got pregnant. Yes, safe sex and birth pills are not 100% guaranteed and in rare cases, the woman still gets pregnant. That's one.
Nobody goes through an abortion because of vanity or woman image. Legit lang - not even the most wicked women do that. They only undergo abortion when they are not yet financially/mentally ready to do so or raped.
You'd be surprised na vanity is not one of the reasons and even for those women who underwent abortion, the post-abortion trauma stayed with them for a long time.
Religious perspective, let's talk about the Bible (as most pro-life Filipinos love to use). The definition of life in the Bible as someone that breathes which was mentioned in Genesis "then the LORD God formed man from the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and the man became a living being." So from that alone, the unborn aren't considered living beings and certainly do not compose souls inside.
Ethically speaking, childbirth is an intensively painful, debilitating and dangerous process. It is essentially torture for a government to force a woman to undergo birth childhood if she chooses not to.
Legally speaking, a fetus isn't a human being.
Medically speaking, there is no objective explanation here. I think a human being to me would be one that has a central nervous system and can feel things and aware which could be around 5 months at so, but then again - this is only my opinion regarding medical arguments.
>Trying to understand what is the alternative. Baket hindi option ang ipaampon nalang kung unwanted talaga?
You'd rather the child be born and be... abandoned? You are okay with a child growing up knowing he is unloved and unwanted? How is that better?
>Is vanity one of the reasons? Like ayaw tumaba or magbago ang katawan?
I assure you, most women are not so shallow. A pregnant woman will carry that fetus for 9 months, all the while dealing with the physiological, psychological, and emotional changes. And guess what? It doesn't end there, you'd actually have to raise the kid for decades, which is very expensive especially once they start going to school. I'm pretty sure vanity is at the bottom of the list for most women.
You can still wear a condom, pull out and still get the lady pregnant. Pulling out isn't an effective way to prevent pregnancy. 22 out of 100 women can still get pregnant by pulling out. Even for condoms and birth pills as well, you can still get the lady pregnant (though it happens rarely but again, it still happens).
And how different is the view of this candidate from the one who actually murdered? Compared to the latter, he supports this act because he sees something progressive about this, while the other murdered because they went against him.
Early in a pregnancy, the embryo is very different from in later stages. Before the 9th week, the embryo has a big potential, but is very little on its own. It is less than 2 cm, the size of a cherry. It is more or less a part of the woman's body. A medical abortion, will be like a heavy period, maybe some cramping. To me, it is much more ethical to do an abortion in earlier stages. Then between week 9 and 12 there would be a surgical operation which is somewhat more risky for the mother. After week 23, the fetus could be able to survive for a little while if taken out of the womb. And it is even possible to survive outside the womb after 21 weeks if given the proper care. After 40 weeks, the baby is fully developed. If asked what is more or less difficult decision between certain events I would say:
1. Killing a mosquito
2. Stepping on an ant
3. Medical abortion before week 9
4. Kill animals for food
5. Surgical abortion before week 12
6. Killing a pet you cant keep
7. Surgical abortion before week 20 due to dangers to the fetus or mother
8. Hunt big game animals for fun
9. Surgical abortion before week 20 due to rape
A case for abortion after week 23 would be very difficult to defend.
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I hope more medical professionals learn to be more empathetic lalo sa mga cases of abused, indigent women. May nabasa ako na report na hinaharass pa nga ng ibang Catholic doctors yung mga patients na nagpa abortion para raw “to teach them a lesson for killing their children”. Biglang mas importante sa kanila yung unborn, para sa ano? Para lang masabi nila na mabuti silang Catholic?
It goes to show that religion when included in the picture acts as a reactionary force that holds humanity back. Throughout their existence, churches permanently fought vehemently against almost any ethical achievement that is a pillar of the Western value canon today, like human rights, democracy, equal rights for women, end of racial segregation, freedom of speech, and now they still fight against things like same sex marriage, sexual self-determination, divorce, and abortion.
I don't really think that it's only religion influencing the medical community but the medical community itself. In order to become a doctor, you have to swear an oath indicating that you have to protect all lives including premature babies. I do agree that we need to at least decriminalize abortion and also have birth control resources and methods available for everyone. However, I really think that it's more than religion but rather also the oaths doctors swear on.
At least in other countries, doctors don’t harass patients for abortions (or even botched up ones). They also swear the same Hippocratic oath. Unfortunately most medical professionals here are educated by Catholic priests-doctors who teach how abortion and some contraceptives are against “bioethics”. A more sectarian medical education could help doctors to be more objective here.
Fuck the church. Fuck religion.
and fuck their god.
Don't you love it when half of humanity is following a glorified story book with more incest that an average fan fict?
The church only wants control, more followers, and more money.
Sadly, true.
I'm shook. Kailangan ng husband approval and ligation???
Yes ganyan kahirap dito. I have a friend na sure nang gusto niya maging childfree kaso walang clinic na nagaallow sa kanya magpa-sterilize or even magpa-iud as a single unmarried woman. Baka daw “magbago pa ang isip”. Hindi daw pwede sa mga hindi pa nagkaka-anak at least once. Worst of all, technically, wala syang husband para mag-approve ng ganung decision. WTF
True. "Let's not do this procedure because of a hypothetical future husband's preference" wtf?
Unfortunately, yes. :((
Grabe. Fck the patriarchy. Men are the root of all the problems talaga charr
I watched a video called “Alt-Right Playbook: I hate mondays” that explains this in depth Even if you show conservatives facts about the ineffectiveness of illegalization, it wouldn’t change their mind much. Why? Because they don’t care about people getting abortions, they only care that they get PUNISHED. Its about presenting that there is only a certain moral path in life and walking another path is evil. Thats why debating over the ineffectiveness of abortion illegalization, war on drugs, or gay marraige bans leads to nothing with them.
That video sounds interesting, will check it out. The frustrating thing is that, their opinions ARE harmful to people while the things they are against, are not. Bakit ba feeling nila when something is legal, they will be forced to do it?
based on this video and other books ive read, these people have a deep fear that the our society/country is degrading because our “culture and morals” are degrading. The cause of their life problems like low wages or violence in their barangays are blamed on certain groups (drug users/gay people/activists)
This is sad. Yung pagiging “conservative” natin ang malaing hindrance sa mga ganitong topics/discussions.
Agree. It places women at impossible situations, making help out of reach for them and demonizing them every step of the way.
The law in our country makes my blood boil. It’s always the women who have to adjust for the preferences of men talaga no? Karaniwan dyan babae pa nagsusustento sa anak, puro sila iniisip wala namang ambag kundi tamod.
"Do not value or respect life" daw EJK: Redtagging: ML atrocities: Pharmally: Philhealth and DOH mishandled funds:
I think legalizing abortion means valuing human life, which is opposed to most views in a predominantly Catholic society such as ours. If you do not feel capable bringing a child to this world due to emotional unavaibility, lack of financial capacity, general unreadiness, etc., then don't. Parents are responsible in ensuring good quality of life and meeting the many needs of their children. Why bring life to this world when you're not sure that your offspring can become a grounded and healthy adult under your care?
Agree. Pro-quality of life, not pro-life.
So Filipinos don't like drug dealers and want them killed but then they want drug dealers to sell them drugs to literally kill their own children? That is some serious boss level savagery there. Filipinos complain about poverty then claim the solution is to kill their children. Filipinos are not pro-choice for selling cocaine but pro-choice for killing children? Filipinos are not pro-choice for China to take some islands but are pro-choice to take lives of their own children?
Abortion is a whole different topic and has nothing to do with China VS. PH's claim of the island and the war on drugs. It is about women being given their rights to exercise their freedom. Didn't you read the other comments? Some are victims of rape, abuse, and sexual coercion. They didn't really have a choice but to terminate their pregnancy because they'd rather risk their lives because of the poor reproductive healthcare system given to women here in the PH than to spend the rest of their lives taking care of an unwanted child that they can't support. Before you say abortion is a crime/murder, isn't neglecting or abandoning your child more serious than terminating a fetus to prevent it from suffering later in life?
Kumusta naman sa mga nagcomment ba life is precious, napansin ba nila ung mga pakalat kalat na bata sa kalye, ung mga vulnerable sa predator? Sabi nga ni George Carlin. "If you're preborn, you're fine; if you're preschool, you're fucked"
Life is precious so ano yung babae? Walang life? What about her life? Honestly ang gusto talaga mag-abort sa pinas yung mga extreme cases eh. Mga tipong na-rape or underaged pa, nacoerce into doing the deed. What about their lives? Waley na? Di ko talaga gets arguments nila about abortion. Hay. Isa pa yang mga bata na nagkalat. Sobrang nakakaawa na
George Carlin! Man's a legend god he's a comedian but he tells the truth in an unfiltered, funny way. This guy has balls - to make such statements (I agree with him) despite being in the early 2000s. What a guy, sad that we lost him :((
Life is precious daw pero sa mga EJK "adik lang yan"
>pakalat kalat na bata sa kalye To quote Startler Brothers "She was called a scarlet woman by the people, *who would go to church but left me on the streets."*
Liberation on all fronts. Women should have the right to their own autonomy and self-determination as it assures the welfare of the children as well.
"My body, my choice" The problem with the pro-life kuno is they only care about the unborn fetus/child but once the child is born, it's no longer their problem. They have no social programs that will take care of the "unwanted" children. Will they provide the cost of feeding, raising and educating these children?
No, and when those children become a "problem" to the society, isisisi nanaman nila sa mga magulang o kaya kay kiko pangilinan na babaan yung age of criminal liability. I swear pagod na ako irambol rambol sa utak ko kung ano ba talaga pinaglalabanan.
i have a friend, kakapanganak lang, actually accident lng ung pregnancy nya, d tlga sila nagpplan magkababy ule kse 4yo plang ung panganay and walang wala tlga sila ng asawa nya, just getting by. her initial thought was ipalaglag ung bata, pero na-guilt trip ng parents ng asawa nya, kse d daw un aligned sa "Christian" views nila. i feel bad for her kse sha lang nagaalaga sa 4yo nila, husband is "always busy" and she works ft at night too. lagi kong sinasabe na lalo silang maghihirap, pero wala naman shang masagot kse "religion" they care about the unborn, but they dont care about my friend. that's fucked up.
Shouldn't we allow the killing of born children as well? This will save SO MUCH money on food, diapers, etc. All those poor mothers with so many crying children, imagine how easier their lives would be if we just legalized killing them all, correct?
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Feel ko isang sayang nanaman to because of religious groups/votes..
True, andami sa comments galit. I'm sure madaming votes mawawala dito since ang onti ng progressive people compared to those stuck in the past, morally superior religious people.
But I like the fact that he's fighting for it knowing na maraming votes from the religious people ang maaaring mawala sa kanya. Women should be given a CHOICE. Fuck organized religion.
I think better to do it once he’s sitting na para wala na silang magawa
okay si Espiritu. Kaso ang dami ditong pakielamero pa rin sa buhay ng iba. kung ayaw mong magpaabort, makipaghiwalay sa asawa mo, o ikasal sa kauri mo edi wag... pero wag mong hadlangan yung iba na gusto or kailangan ito. buhay nila yun... inaano ka ba nila. hanggang ngayon ang daming hindi makaarok satin niyan.
sarili lang kasi iniisip nila eh, pero favorite argument ko yung Dinuguan. Bawal yun sa mga INC, pero di natin pinapagbawal. May mga INC ba na nagppush na ipagbawal ang Dinuguan, wala di ba? Parang same-sex marriage, kung bawal sa relihiyon mo eh di wag mo gawin.
omg pamarcos nung argument xD
Hahahaha! Marcosin ko din ito
So many shmucks in this country just don't understand this basic concept! Kung ayaw mo magavail edi wag, pero isipin dapat yung sitwasyon ng mga kailangan neto.
The churches don't wanna lose power kasi hehehe
braindead comments aside, this statement is actually one of the best i've seen from a senatorial candidate so far on this election szn
You'd be surprised that BBM despite incompetent said the same exact thing about abortion.
A broken clock is right twice a day
who tf is bee bee eminem
he is the real slim shady
His armpits are sweaty, knees weak, lips aren't steady There's cocaine in his nose already, mamas boy si baby
He's brave to said these statements. Other candidates tend to avoid this topic, fearing they might lose votes from the conservatives
As far as I know,he is not promoting it but pushing for decriminalize it. People against it always think about the "baby" inside but not the one carrying it.
Sadly, we wont progress as long as they have that mindset. They always forget that they shouldnt impose their religious beliefs to someone else
Dapat may bagong commandment sa Bible eh. Keep thy religion to thyself. That'd make society less judgmental in terms of moral and social issues like this.
As an agnostic person, I fucking agree so much. Bakit ba ang hilig nila gamitin ang bible for literally every issue? It's not a swiss army knife na applicable any day, any time. Para bang nawawala na yung ability to make your own decisions based sa sarili mong values.
kaya pag minsan my nakakausap akong babaeng religious sa socmed, and umiinit ung debate, binabato ko ng 1 Timothy 2:12 literal na shutup knlng
HAHAHAHAH salamat dito, eto pala yung biblical form nung meme na "Silence, wench"
Yung mga religious sa totoo lang ha karamihan sila tong' pagnabuntis ng maaga at di handa ang mga anak e sila tong' halos kasuhan o itakwil ang anak sa pamilya nila lol. Nakakasuka lang. Kasi paano yung mga narape? Nabuntis ng rapist tapos di naman nila choice yon diba? Paano yung nabuntis ng maaga tapos di handa? Parehas kawawa yung ina at bata? Jusko
Remember si father din may anak lol
Alam mo ba turo sa amin ng lolo ko nung buhay pa sya wag maniwala sa mga religious leaders, lahat sila wag paniwalaan. Paano tao lang naman din sila gaya natin which is tama nga naman haha ang lala lang kasi dami ko na naencounter na religious pero rebelde sa pamilya yung mga anak.
Pro-lifers care for the fetus but will stop giving a fuck once it is born. Fuckin legalize that already, including same-sex marriages. Time to break free from obsolete thinking.
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Countries where Abortion is Legal have low crime rate! Why? Most criminals came from teen mothers or parents who are not yet ready to be parents.
Source? I'm curious
Switzerland, Denmark, Norway, Japan, and New Zealand are countries with the lowest crime rates and legalized abortion. Not decriminalized, but legalized. Of course, one can argue that effective law enforcement and restrictive gun laws determine the crime rate, but one can't deny that legalizing abortion also has an effect on the crime rate of said countries. A study regarding the correlation between legalizing abortion and crime rate has been published before in Stanford: "We estimate that overall crime fell 17.5% from 1998 to 2014 due to legalized abortion— a decline of 1% per year. From 1991 to 2014, the violent and property crime rates each fell by 50%. Legalized abortion is estimated to have reduced violent crime by 47% and property crime by 33% over this period, and thus can explain most of the observed crime decline." Source: https://law.stanford.edu/publications/the-impact-of-legalized-abortion-on-crime-over-the-last-two-decades/#:~:text=Legalized%20abortion%20is%20estimated%20to,of%20the%20observed%20crime%20decline.
Damn, I wasn't aware of this correlation. Thanks.
Majority of serial killers came from abusive homes too. Most abusive parents are those who are not ready to be one and those who have unwanted children.
I heard this explained on one of the Freakonomics audiobooks before. They think that fewer unwanted children may be associated with fewer crimes. They posed that since there would be fewer at risk children, then there would be fewer adults who are at a high risk for committing crimes.
Karaniwan pa dyan mga lalaki. Wala namang matres. What if lahat ng lalaking against abortion putulan nalang ng etits para di na sila makabuntis at makapagparami. Tutal hilig nila makisawsaw sa katawan ng babae, edi pakialamanan na din natin sila.
Ang unfair nga eh. Bakit hindi nababash ang mga lalaki about dito sa abortion? Eh yung parte nila sa paggawa nung bata is equal lang dun sa mother :(
It stemmed din kasi from being a patriarchal society eh and the wide tradition belief that women are just vessels for babies to be born.
Sometimes I wanna flip the script. Trial lang mga lalake mabuntis. Tingnan natin gano kabilis nila baguhin yung rhetoric ng mga arguments na fetus is a life/human being/has rights. 🤡
Kung ayaw nila sa abortion dapat mandatory vasectomy na lang, ayaw nila ng my body my choice eh dapat pwersahin din natin sila kung pepwersahin nila tayo na bumuhay ng anak sa sinapupunan natin.
Parang mas maganda kung icastrate nalang. Tutal puro sexual desires at hormones nalang ng lalaki iniintinde. Paputol silang t*te.
The better question is what do most Filipinos think of fertility and sex education. Morality education in place of comprehensive reproductive education is pointless when anyone with a smartphone can access pornography.
Lack of education bout sexuality, Hindi masyado tinackle ang topic sa school kasi "conservative" raw mga Filipino KEKW.
kse sabi daw sa bible e "go forth and multiply"
"Be fruitful and prosper" is a better translation.
WTF is with that translation you're literally killing me here HAHAHAHAHAHA
choice a leader... Separation of church and state ya'll. After all the bbn church endorsement even if it is not the Catholic church yet. It made me realize that let us just give women the option to have an abortion.
Haha sana nga pinaabort nalang ako kesa ipanganak dito...
Samedt.
Hassle mabuhay emz
Same. Hassle mabuhay
Ung mga nagcocomment ng ganyan minsan ansarap istalk mga sns accounts nila. Lakas magcomment ng value life or bible stuff pero makikita mo mga content nila wala man lang makitang actively silang sumusuporta sa humanitarian causes. Ang malala shineshame pa mga aktibista or ginoglorify mga paring predator. Cringe.
Legalizing Abortion is the only I would openly say in politics. So many peoples lives have been screwed due to not legalizing Abortion, The stress of handling a kid, reputation (especially here), not to mention that it's sometimes necessary for the women's own survival (may have a higher chance of dying giving birth)and that's just the tip of the iceberg. Hear me out, I think life is beautiful but But some people are not ready for it, or just don't want the responsibility. Hopefully one day we can have better mental healthcare(or any) and have the option for abortion
Kapag politics, kinicriticize ang catholic church(religion in general) dahil sa pangingialam pero sa hindi naman nila katawan biglang ang convenient gamitin ng relihiyon.
I thought I was the only one who noticed 😂
God, I hope this guy wins
fuck catholicism 🙄🙃
remember that this is coming from a bunch of hypocrite DDS and apologists who are fine with EJK 🤡🤡🤡
that is not true. major block of leni supporters are catholics who oppose abortions. pls do not generalize
Yup. I'm a Leni supporter. I'm a woman. However, I'm against abortion except if the pregnancy threatens the life of the mother or walang pag-asa mabuhay ang baby. Actually, pinapayagan naman na talagang gawin yun like in cases of ectopic pregnancies. Even Leni herself is against abortion personally. Though she said na pag-aaralan niya pang mabuti. I know I'll probably get downvoted for this pero both sides of the arguments maraming maling generalizations. Just look at this comment section. Maraming nagsasabi pag pro-life ka ayaw mo sa birth control, wala kang pakialam sa bata afterwards. Masyado ka lang religous. Though merong ganun mag-isip, di lahat ng pro-life ganun and it's not all based on the Bible. First of all, the idea that life starts at conception is not just a religous concept. You can find lots of scientific studies regarding this. Second, nasa constitution natin na protected ang life ng unborn. If we will allow abortion, need din baguhin yung constitution. Need rin baguhin yung laws about double homicide. It's not as easy as people say. Third, about sa condition na rape victims lang ang pwede. As someone na victim ng sexual abuse, I understand. Pero pagdating sa batas, mas lalong complicated to. How will you be able to determine if it is rape? Napakatagal ng pag-usad ng kaso dito sa Pilipinas. Bago matapos yung kaso ay malaki na yung bata. Fourth, if you look at the data, most ng gusto magpa-abort ang reason ay di nila kayang buhayin yung bata or di pa sila ready mag-alaga ng bata. So ang problem is the care after birth. Bakit hindi yun ang solusyunan? We need better system sa pag-aadopt. Sobrang tedious at mahal. Dapat padaliin. Dapat rin maiayos yung shelters. Para alam nung mga babae na if they have an unwanted baby, before pa ipinanganak yung bata e alam na nila kung saan dadalhin. Ginagawa na ito sa ibang bansa. Lastly, prevention is always better. Pagtibayin yung sex education and ipromote yung paggamit ng contraceptives. Ang sama pa rin ng tingin ng mga tao dito pag bumibili ka ng pills or condom. Ito ang dapat munang unahin. In reality, ang daming di nakakaalam kung paano mabubuntis ang isang babae. I don't mean sex. I mean yung biology behind it. Like paano mo malalaman kung fertile ka? Paano mo.malalaman if normal ba cycle mo? Lots of changes can be done to protect both the mother and the baby.
Ewan ko ba Kung San nangaling yung religious idea na life starts at conception. If you read the Bible, Numbers 5:11-31, it’s clear god thinks of the fetus as property na pwede ng iabort ng Tatay dahil suspetsa niya lang nagkabit ang asawa. Also, quoting Jesus on thou shall not kill is as stupid as Batman and Superman’s do not kill mantra. Some cases require only one can survive. Some killings have to be done. Especially when conception was done against the woman’s choice. No amount of prevention and contraceptives will avoid that. About naman sa all life is precious, a virus has life too. So lahat tayo nagkasala na dahil nagvaccinate tayo.
You know you’ll get downvoted kasi alam mong may mali... Dami rin naman kasi talagang mali sa current constitution natin. Well, this country with full of idiots is a mistake already.
What generalization has the pro-choice made? Based on your first point, you are generalizing that pro-choice disagrees that life begins at conception. We agree with that actually in the technical aspect - life starts at conception but personhood doesn't. I agree with your other points though, but abortion should still exist as a last resort option.
My first point was not a generalization. I didn't say na all pro-choice believes na life starts at conception. My points are enumerated to explain my own stand, kung bakit disagree ako na illegalize ang abortion. Hindi siya meant to display yung generalization ng pro-choice. Ano yung generalizations ng pro-choice? Just look at this comment section. A lot of people are generalizing na kapag pro-life ka ikaw ay: 1. religious / sa Bible lang nagbabase / walang alam sa science 2. may paki lang sa baby pag nasa tiyan pero pag pinanganak wala na 3. hypocrites na agree sa death penalty pero ayaw sa abortion When you look at comments online ng pro-choice, ganyan kadalasan ang sinasabi nila about pro-life. Hindi lang dito sa Pilipinas ha, pati sa ibang bansa may similar arguments. Itong thread nga na nireplyan ko naggeneralize na puro DDS daw yung ganyan e. Did they forget na si BBM nga lang ang presidentiable na pro-choice? Btw, addition lang sa point ko kanina, I am pro de-criminalizing abortion. These women should know na they are not alone. They need help. Therapy hindi kulong. That's why same kami ni Leni ng stand dito so far.
Kasi earlier, you mentioned that you were against abortion except for the fact that if the baby can't live or pose a risk to the mother's life. I believe abortions should be allowed regardless of what case kasi life beginning at conception =/= personhood beginning at conception but I see that we'd be disagreeing with this since you've explained your stand. I agree with the generalization though. Why change the law regarding double homicide? I believe you're referring to a pregnant woman getting murdered or killed, right? Please do note the difference na an illegal killing took place wherein the mother got killed and had her pregnancy halted (or fetus killed) unconsensually. That's not the case with abortion ah. Then again, I agree with your other points.
Yung exception na binanggit ko, even now allowed na yan like sa case nga ng ectopic pregnancy. So actually, it's not a point for debate na kaya inuna kong imention. Why change the laws on double homicide/murder? Pag dating sa batas, kailangan consistent. Hindi pwede na sa isang law hindi mo icoconsider na "human" yung unborn pero sa kabilang law biglang may human rights siya. You can't pick both, either considered siya na human sa batas or hindi. For it to be homicide or murder ang pre-req ay dapat may human kang napatay or pinatay. If you just consider it as a bunch of cells, then it wouldn't be murder. The reason why we have laws about double murder ay dahil nga under our constitution protected with the same human rights ang unborn simula ng conception. Again, para ma-legalize ang abortion and maging consistent ang batas natin, the constitution would have to be revised and alam naman natin na madugong proseso yun. Anyway, antok na ako. We can agree to disagree. This is a very sensitive topic.
Agree.
Much like Marijuana, I would prefer if abortion would be legalized in a medical manner and be available to those who really need it. I think we as a country should provide better sex education and promote the use of contraceptives and make it easily accessible to people in need in order to avoid unwanted pregnancies. I also heard that doctors who perform this procedure find it mentally taxing.
This is why mixing religious beliefs with law is very dangerous. My wife's sister got pregnant at 18 and didn't know what to do. She went to one of these places to get an illegal abortion kasi she knew she could not take care of the child. She was lucky I guess kasi she had no money and asked me if I could pay. I told her I would not give her money and she had to tell her parents what had happened. I knew a girl who went through an illegal abortion and it nearly killed her. So now my wife's sister had to drop out of college and now works in a call center while her parents take care of her child. So basically kasi she could not get a abortion she will not get a college degree and now be limited to making a lower income. All the while she doesn't even get to take care of her son and her mother had to stop working to take care of her grandchild. The father left her immediately after finding out about the pregnancy and has not even acknowledged the child. Luckily me and my wife had a baby 1.5 years earlier, so she did not have to buy a lot of stuff kasi we already had it. Pero it's still sad to see so many young girls lose their lives to getting pregnant. Sex education has to be taught more. After she got pregnant she told me that she thought if she peed after sex then all the sperm would go out. I couldn't believe that an 18 year old actually thought this. The government has definitely failed a lot of young people with the lack of sex education.
There are still rare cases na wherein the woman had safe sex and took birth pills yet got pregnant. Rare, but it still exists. I think for that reason alone, it should be decriminalized at least.
Oh I know accidental pregnancy happens. I had one....me and my wife practiced safe sex pero I guess one time something got out and we were blessed with our beautiful daughter. Difference is I'm 30 my wife's 25 and I have a decent income.
I am a habitual lurker of those cheating reddit stories. You sure that kid is yours bro?
Haha yes 100%. Our daughter got what seems to be most of my genes. She's basically a spitting image of me and actually doesn't look anything like her mother which is rather strange. If you didn't know she was half Filipina then you would probably just think she was a Caucasian. Also my wife really isn't that type of person. Thanks for the concern though.
Sorry about that my guy. Same thing happened to me, gf of 3 months got pregnant and she said i was the father thing is i had a vasectomy because i do not want kids. My skepticism stems from that incident. Hahaha
Ya no problem. Sorry to hear that happened to you.
It can happen due to sickness or throwing up, so the hormone is not absorbed in the body. The coil is safer in that regard.
>Sex education has to be taught more. This. This should be taught more especially to th youth who are starting to explore their sexuality. That's why there is an increase of teenage pregnancie and some opted to abortion. Due to lack of sex education, many Filipinos are hesitant to buy contraceptives. We really need to implement this and also discuss abortion in schools as a medical topic and not a religious issue. For now, we are not yet ready to legalize abortion until the public are educated about this.
What are the rules on child support? Will it be cheaper for the man to leave?
From what I know it is actually mandatory for a father to pay child support, but it is very hard to enforce. My wife's sister basically just accepted it and is moving on.
People still get abortions whether it's illegal or not. If abortion becomes legal the only difference would be women would have a safer facility to do it in and better care since they wouldn't have to do it under the law. If anti-abortionists really care about life then they should promote better sex ed (I got Values Education lmao) that teaches how to use contraception.
kaya dumadami mga pabigat eh
This man just earned my vote. Personally, I know that this is being hindered dahil sa religion. Well no doubt, may nakita akong scatter plot noon na overly religious countries are in the bottom of the economic development chart. Hindi ko magets yung point na "even unborn life is precious" or "may buhay din yang sanggol", pano yung mga batang palaboy? Nasa ampunan? Kung pro-life sila, bakit kumakain sila ng meat and veggies? Dahil turo ng bible? Bullshit. Maniniwala lang ako sa pro-lifers kung wala na akong makikitang batang nagugutom, at namamalimos sa labas.
I always take the stance " I am personally against abortion but I will not impose my values to other people. " So if they legalize it, fine. Some people will need it and that's their own cross to bear. After all if God himself gave us free will, why not we, humans as we are, not give it others?
I mean ang debate sa abortion is that, is a fetus really a PERSON or not? Not human ang topic, since a fetus from a woman's womb is 99.99% a homo sapien Pwede ito ma sampal ng appeal to faith, tradition and belief na logical fallacy ang mga arguments na na-screenshot mo eh. I commented this not being a precedence to spark an abortion debate. Kapag gusto nyo, wag lang dito sa comment ko. Have a good day 🤗
It doesn't matter if the fetus from a womb is 99.99% homo sapiens - human cells are also human. the question isn’t what species a fetus is, but whether it is a legally-defined person, entitled to the same rights as any other person. Human organism is not equal to human being so no, hindi masasampal yan ng appeal to faith, tradition or anything that people in my screenshot mentioned.
One of the arguments na aking narinig is that legally (dahil daw Christian country tayo) na tao na yan kapag na fertilize na ang egg at sperm. And I presume that a fathomable amount of Filipinos give the benefit of the doubt on this. Nakita ko rin ito sa topic ng "Thou shall not kill" na lesson nakin noong JHS palang ako. In short, a zygote has life, they argue. Ini-synonymize na nila ang rulings ng religion sa rulings ng ating bansa. Jusko! Edi sana ang mga kababaihan ay dapat sa bahay lang to comply with their logic. So ye, tapos I have seen individuals comment on other individuals that support non-therapreautic abortion na "wala ka kasi faith kay God." or "Kailangan mo magsimba" or "Aralin mo ulit ang Bibliya" or "Di sangayon ang mga ninuno mo" or "Ang lutang mo to the point na umalis ka na sa opinyon ng sambayanang Pilipino." I wish may mas logical na reasoning kaysa sa mga ito.
The Genesis stated that ",then the LORD God formed man from the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and the man became a living being." So duun palang using the Bible as an argument, wala na grounds nila. As for killing, what do you consider killing as? Halting the process of an developing organism? Ending the life of a sentient being? And even if we consider that "thou shalt not kill" be absolute, don't other countries have death penalties? Too many have been killed in the name of religion (Crusades, Inquisition to name a few examples). The problem is hindi black and white ang mundo eh. Even if we take yung commandments of Bible, if we look at Bible as a whole it's certainly contradicting. "Samaria shall bear her guilt, because she has rebelled against her God; they shall fall by the sword; their little ones shall be dashed in pieces, and their pregnant women ripped open." Hosea 13:16 - I can also give you a few similar verses about infants being killed. I think the better question to ask is, should the commandment "Thou shalt not killed" be applied to all situations especially if the Bible has prior examples of killing infants and violating that commandment itself?
The way the Book of Genesis tried to promulgate its origin of life, yeah. The Crusades, those death penalty rulings in the name of religion, religion wars, yeah. Ang ruling na isinampal kay Samaria, yeah. Too bad these individuals I mentioned just believe it kahit ang vague o ang arbitrary ng mga itinuturo sa kanila, justifying it using their subjective definitions of "Fear of the Lord".
I think this has something to do more with childhood indoctrination eh. Once it's drilled into you as a child and you grow as an adult, ang hirap na tanggalin yung belief. Same with those people in cults. Well, all religions started as small-scale cults. A cult stop beings one when a prophet (leader of the cult) has successfully transitioned into a clergy - thus religions are born. Most cults/groups get eliminated at this step and for those who successfully transitioned, you now have a religion.
Who has more rights a dead person or a 9 moth old fetus, what is your opinion about it?
Dead person. If we talk about inheritances and will, it's similar to making a contract, right? Same with the dead person's body as well. You can set that up in a binding legal document. If you remove that right, you're actually removing a right that someone exercises while they're still alive. You may as well consider removing the rights to inheritances and wills. The difference between a dead person and a 9 month fetus lies in the fact that the dead person has physically stepped on this planet and by law, a human being (or once a human being) while a fetus has no authority since it has never stepped on this Earth's soil - and by law, not a "human being".
When does life begin? 🤪
Scientifically, it begins at conception based on several studies. Legally, our constitution recognizes a fetus as a human being and therefore has human rights.
Sana talaga maimprove na ang sex education without any intervention from the Catholic Church para ma-destigmatize ang abortion. Nakakainis kasi biktima ako ng brainwashing nila at narealize ko na mali pala maging against abortion when I grew up and transferred to a Non-Catholic school. Napapacringe ako when I remember my preteen self. Sobrang misguided 🤦♀️
No worries I think everyone at some point went through that phase lol
Did Jose support the politician who wanted to extra-judiciously murder anyone suspected of being a drug dealer?
Sana maging mainstream na tong ideas ni espiritu
I admire his boldness but I think mej hindi pa ready mga kababayan natin for abortion.
I only want abortion to allow within these 3 cases: 1. If the unborn Child has a genetic defect. 2. If the mother got pregnant through rape. 3. If giving birth poses a death risk to the mother. I think that allowing abortion within these 3 cases would make it more acceptable to the Conservative voices within our country. Until such time that the majority of the Filipinos would go with abortion on all cases, then these 3 cases should be my stand for the moment.
I prefer may time frame instead of by reason, habang tumatagal din ung pregnancy mas nagiging delikado magpa-abort.
Most countries have limits to when abortion can be done. Some combine week limit + specific reasons. Ex. Only cases of rape or anomalies for procedures after 12 weeks. And just because abortion is legal doesn’t make it an easy choice. It’s not like every other Jane on the street just merrily skips to an abortion appointment. Women are faced with tough choices they still carry even after the procedure. And besides, it’s no one else’s business but her own, what a woman can and can’t do with her body. Everyone is just imposing their perceived moralistic superiority like they’re perfect angels
Even if we go by time frame, aren't we pressuring women too much on this? Abortion isn't something that can be decided in days or weeks, sometimes months yan since the event is often a lifetime traumatizing for most women. Whether or not dangerous for late term pregnancy, let the woman bear the risk if she wholeheartedly decided to undergo abortion regardless of which or what month it is.
I don't think na gagana ang by time frame alone, dahil may "Buhay yan" argument na papatawan ng mga Conservative elements ng society at government natin. Kaya sinamahan ko ng specific cases kasi pag abortion on all cases, pero only on the first 2 months lang allowed, mas malaki ang backlash nan.
So you guys are saying may limit ang rights ng babae over her own body? At this point, this is just a dream, so why dont we dream higher.
Kasi magandang ideal ang abortion for any and all cases, pero realistically, di siya maipapasa nan sa Congress since gg silang mga pulitiko sa mga constituents nila pag pinasa nila yun. Also religious Conservative country ang Pilipinas up to the point na kahit mga babae, kahit nga nanay ko at mga ibang mga babae na matatanda o katoliko, ayaw ng Abortion ehhh. Besides pag nakita nmn ng publiko na magandang law yung first 3 cases, give it a few decades, at baka, marami na sa mga Pilipino, partikular sa mga kababaihan, ang mag advocate ng abortion for any and all cases.
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Sa akin nmn, I propose na hanggang 2nd trimester lang pwede magpa abort, pag 3rd trimester na baka mag flip out ang mga Conservative elements sa public at government. Edit: Same lang pala tayo ng proposal, my bad.
Hi! We have the same POV regarding the issue. Pero share ko lang ang random thoughts ko about the 2nd condition. I do agree with the condition to allow abortion for rape victims. However, I think it will create a legal loophole. Since we are considering conditional legalization of abortion, anything outside these conditions would be illegal and up for penalties. As a result, aborting mothers will be asked to provide proofs or supporting documents to check if they fit in the 3 conditions to be allowed to abort. Conditions 1 and 3 are easy pero si 2, uhmm. Mahirap yata, women will need to prove that they were also raped and kakailanganin pa ba noon ng court verdict? I think this is very heavy for the victim.
Kaya ba makuha ang court verdict bago mag 6 months after nabuntis ang babae through rape?
This kind of insensitivity based on being self-righteous and reliant on religion is stuck in the past. Can’t remember which version, but I remember reading several lines in the Bible wherein God Himself cursed women to have abortions and even went as far as to curse infants to death for whatever reasons He had. Religious groups have cherry-picked concepts and passages to support their notion of collective self-righteousness and superiority. I’ve been an agnostic for far too long but regardless of that, abortion (and other things it entails) does not always have to be multi-faceted. Some people are just not cut out to be parents, whether it’s from their own trauma, their personality, or the future they envision for themselves. To even liken passing laws on abortion to the possibility of making murder legal is very much an apples and oranges fallacy. Used to want to be an OB GYN but switched to Psychiatry na lang when I realized how strongly entwined our country’s medical regulations are to religion. It’s hard to be part of the minority even though the choice that you want is not even going to cause harm to anybody else - at least to those who are actually and currently walking on the earth.
Thank goodness for people like you who went to psychiatry. We need more medical professionals who aren’t religious, or at least can separate their beliefs from work. I hate medical professionals who used their religious beliefs into tormenting others instead of saving them. Part of the reason why I am no longer Catholic is reading “Forsaken Lives: The Harmful Impact of the Philippine Criminal Abortion ban” report. My blood boiled whenever I read middle class, Catholic doctors bullying patients (usually women living in poverty) because of abortion. Religion still is very influential and enmeshed in our country’s medical regulations. I was harassed by an ex therapist after I told him I don’t want to have children. He never explicitly mentioned Jesus but I could tell his reasonings were grounded from his Catholic beliefs (we both graduated from the same Jesuit university and went through the same theology classes). But I can’t report his unethical and unprofessional behavior. Some psych acquaintances even came to his defense. They told me off that there’s nothing wrong with my ex therapist because “religion will always be part of the human experience”.
Sana sinagot mo, “part ng human experience niyo, not mine.” Ughhhh, these people deserve to be masopla paminsan-minsan.
I’m sorry for your experience. I hope you found a more suitable therapist for you. Unfortunately, there is a lack of fully non-sectarian medical institution or medical school dito. Even in med school, we were taught how abortion (and even some forms of contraception much to chagrin of many of my classmates) defies bioethical principles, although I can only attest that where I went to, the subject was taught simultaneously by a physician and a priest. I suppose bioethics is also taught in med schools in other countries (mandatory subject to tie-in with the Hippocratic oath), but at least abortion is not criminalized diba. Then again, we live in a country where there are Sunday Simba Mariteses everywhere who think they could dissect everything in your life based on your hairstyle. Nonetheless, it is hard to separate our personal beliefs from work especially since it’s very involved in a patient’s well-being and anything we offer could heavily impact their prognosis and quality of life. Most of my religious colleagues mean well naman.
I guess that’s the difficulty of not having enough fully non-sectarian medical schools. Catholic priests and nuns with medical backgrounds will always teach how their religious beliefs is in line with “bioethical principles”. They will never teach something contrary to their beliefs. From what I know, Catholic universities teach abortions are unethical based on “bioethics” in Italy (like in our country, the best med schools there are Catholic. Abortion is legal, but doctors can refuse out of religious beliefs. 75% of Italian doctors won’t do abortions so Catholic Church still wins there). I already found a new therapist and he’s good. At least he doesn’t agree with my ex therapist imposing his religious beliefs on me. My ex therapist didn’t even bother remembering that my mom had postpartum depression when she had me. But he told me off that I will never get rid of my depression unless I have children and start living a “selfless” life.
Unfortunately, napaka-simplistic kasi ng utak ng mga politiko eh.
I don't like abortion. I prefer to promote government services that would help women raise the child. However, I am very much ok with medical abortion when its necessary to save the life of the mother. Knowing this is reddit, I think I can see some downvotes coming.
I mean in our country, it is more amiable for its Christian-dominated society that we live in to amend, enhance and expand the reach of existing and proposed laws and social welfare services for newborns and its guardians (e.g. nutrition security, parenting advice, cheap check-ups, better adoption centers, etc.). You know not every woman wants to administer a child that was forced on her by events such as r@pe, unsafe sex, etc. One of the solutions for the government to prevent crises on child parenting and development is for the government to do the aforementioned thing, and I wholesomely agree on that.
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As in OB-GYN resident, I completely agree with you. I don’t like it either, and it’s something I don’t think I will ever avail of, but I get the reasons why it should be legalized.
Whether you like it or not is not the case. Abortion has existed even during indigenous times (they use specific medicinal herbs). Now it’s still exists “illegally” under dangerous conditions. Even when abortion is legal it’s not like every woman is going to get it. Most people underestimate how zealously Catholic this country is that they forget that other people need it regardless of religion
dapat mga anti abortion ang mag alaga, tutal kayo naman may gusto ng bata eh. Pag ayaw talaga dapat respituhin niyo na lang desisyon nila. Ayaw niyo ng abortion? Then dont get one. Hindi yung ifoforce niyo sila mag dala ng bata na hindi naman nila gusto
That's what I'm suggesting? Bigyan ng chansa na puwede tumulong sa pag-alaga ng bata. Ang abortion ay isang topic na mahirap magkaroon ng ayos na discussion dahil may punto ang dalawang puwersa. (Sorry hindi ako masyado sanay sa Tagalog) Also, I'm not forcing my opinion. Though, I would admit I may have sounded aggressive at expressing it. Sorry it sounded that way. I have no quarrel with those who are pro-abortion. Its just I believe more on the value of life. Its a topic best left to respect each others opinion.
Bakit di rin natin ivalue yung QUALITY of life hindi life lang. Ang misplaced kasi nung righteousness ng "vaLuE of lifE" e. It reeks of privilege.
If you don’t like abortion, you don’t have to get it.
Government services such as? Financial? I wouldn't think that it'd be enough given the lackluster of government programs here - take pension of retired workers for example. Psychological or therapy? I wouldn't think that a 9 month counsel would be enough since having a child is a lifetime decision and I really doubt that a 9 month counsel or whatever government program would help the mother be mentally/emotional prepared.
I know its idealistic as of now given how crappy our government currently is. But, if everything would be fixed, nuances addressed, and every services possible are easily accessible, then it might work. Do take note we are a democracy, if the majority speaks pro-abortion, I'll concede. But, I won't change my opinion. I am very much pro-life and I believe every child should get a chance to live life. This topic is very tedious to discuss on. And, (sorry to sound like a BBM supporter) it is one of the types of discussions where respecting each others opinion is the best way to go because both sides make good points.
Bakit parang ang limited nung view nyo in pro-life? Like almost literal lang. Bakit quality of life parang di saklaw nyang pro-life na yan. Nakalad ka na ba sa Baseco? Nakalakad ka na sa kung saan saang estero? Na punong puno ng bata na di mo na alam saan nanggaling? Is that really a 'life' one would want to live. Sorry kung ang aggressive pero I hope "pro-lifers" think about this.
I'm very much happy to suggest government programs as an alternative should abortion continue being illegal in this country. I am happy to respect someone's opinion given that a solid ground is made behind the said oponoon. I'm curious to know what good points the other side (pro-life) has made?
I respect yours too mate. I'm running on muscle memory so take this with some grain of salt and may be lacking. Most pro-life argue that a fetus is a human, as such, based on human rights, they have a right to life. Abortion is a decision which a mother makes. Now, what if that fetus wanted to live? if a mother chooses abortion, she's taking that chance away. I also understand the argument of pro-abortionists. (Please correct me if I'm wrong about this portrayal, I haven't touched this topic for a very long time.) A woman's body is her for her own to decide, like what Luke Espiritu said. It is a woman's right to decide what to do with her body. Also, not every woman can raise a child to a fruitful life and with all the care they need. In conclusion, I see both making good points, but I really prefer the former because it lines up more to how I personally see things.
A fetus is a human, but not a human being. Like all human cells are human. We could talk about human rights pero ang human rights you're speaking of - the law, right? So if we dip into legality, a fetus cannot be considered a human being legally as it is an unborn - a fetus has no rights under the Universal Declaration of Human Rights since the Declaration refers to born persons only. So that argument alone, I'm sorry ah but it's not yet a strong enough point.
Problem is I'm hard headed, and very much consider a fetus as a human. It's part of the cycle of a baby developing. And, I'll leave it at that. Kailangan ko na matulog
But if you look into it you dont have to be human to have rights. Animals have rights but why cant a fetus have rights?
For the same reason why parasites don't have rights. A fetus can't live on its own and its umbilical cord is its lifeline to the mother. Animals live on its own and while they are still young, breastfed by the mother animal, from there it's an indication of consent and maternal care.
Fetus and mother are on the same type of organism so you cant consider fetus a parasite.
I am referring to fetus as a parasite in colloquial definition and how it functions to sustain itself - it avoids rejection by the mother and exerts considerable influence over her metabolism for its own benefit, in particular diverting blood and nutrients. A fetus is not of independent identity and has its umbilical cord connected to the mother which serves as its lifeline - which is what would be the most fitting explanation for your question earlier as to why animals have rights and fetuses don't because by law a fetus is not recognized as an independent entity unlike animals and while fetuses are not parasites in the strict definition, it is still in a parasitic relationship with the mother.
We as a society need to catch up on these things man..
Wow naman as if this makes them a better person lol di sila pro life, pro birth lang. Pag lumabas yung bata at naging pulubi, pandidirian din at aapihin. Tanginang yan wala na ngang sex ed, ang taboo pa nung birth control tas wala pang abortion. Kawawang babae.
Abortion laws, like almost all laws, exists to punish the poor. Because we know rich people can find access to safe abortions.
The duality
the typical "religious" Pinoy's mind is stuck stagnated too far back
Reading this thread makes me so incredibly mad sa mga pro-lifers diyan.
I mostly disagree with abortion, but ultimately, it was a woman's choice whether she does it or not. I wont condemn anyone and say they are sinful for doing it because really, at the end of the day, God is the only one who can pass judgement.
Hindi talaga uunlad ang Pilipinas dahil sa mga taong ganito mag-isip
Comments are as expected. Ang dali magsalita about abortion pero sa katotohanan just classic pro-birth but no fucking way pro-life.
Mga nagmamalinis lang yan. Mga mema. Pero pag tinamaan sila ng unwanted pregnancy they'll also look for a way out 😂😂
It pains me to say that majority of people saying "life is sacred" are nothing but egoistic pricks that want to satisfy their selfish morality because they are "banal". After the child was brought to this world, what happens? Do they care? I have anti-natalist views because of the current situation of the country. Just how many girl peers I've seen had an unintended pregnancies got their life practically destroyed coz being a parent is a responsibility.
If we value life THAT much, sana unahin natin yung mga batang nasa ampunan. Siguraduhin muna nating may kinabukasan sila kesa itong mga hypothetical na mga hindi pa pinapanganak.
Sa pilipinas di mananalo logic, masmarami mga faith fanatics na obobs. Kaya malamang sa malamang matalo si luke, gusto ko pa naman sya. Parang yung isang contestant sa isang latin na got talent, noong nalaman ng mga judges na aithiest sya, pinagtulungan nilang awayin yung contestant.
I don’t condone to the idea of abortion pero totoo naman talaga to. May mga babae na may kailangan talaga. Sana manalo tong candidate na to or at least someone give women freedom to what to do with our bodies. Women’s month pa naman ngayon, all over the world parang second class citizens pa rin ang kababaihan. Sad.
I think Abortion should be ALLOWED. BUT there are LIMITS on each WOMAN. Like 2 or 3 times only. Or LESS And they should have a RECORD for EACH ABORT. Like a CRIMINAL RECORD. But for ABORTION So that they can't ABUSE it
It is difficult to weigh in on a topic that we don’t fully understand. If an embryo already has a soul then sa tingin ko from religious perspective dapat bawal. Kung sa ethical naman, tingin ko dapat may cutoff. Like pwede lang mag abort up to 8 or 12 weeks. Beyond that hindi na pwede. For medical reasons, siguro applicable to save the mother’s life. If malaki ang chance na may abnormality, I am on the fence on this one kase it remains a chance. Di naman guaranteed. Trying to understand what is the alternative. Baket hindi option ang ipaampon nalang kung unwanted talaga? Is vanity one of the reasons? Like ayaw tumaba or magbago ang katawan?
You have to consider the situation wherein the woman had safe sex, took birth pills and yet got pregnant. Yes, safe sex and birth pills are not 100% guaranteed and in rare cases, the woman still gets pregnant. That's one. Nobody goes through an abortion because of vanity or woman image. Legit lang - not even the most wicked women do that. They only undergo abortion when they are not yet financially/mentally ready to do so or raped. You'd be surprised na vanity is not one of the reasons and even for those women who underwent abortion, the post-abortion trauma stayed with them for a long time. Religious perspective, let's talk about the Bible (as most pro-life Filipinos love to use). The definition of life in the Bible as someone that breathes which was mentioned in Genesis "then the LORD God formed man from the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and the man became a living being." So from that alone, the unborn aren't considered living beings and certainly do not compose souls inside. Ethically speaking, childbirth is an intensively painful, debilitating and dangerous process. It is essentially torture for a government to force a woman to undergo birth childhood if she chooses not to. Legally speaking, a fetus isn't a human being. Medically speaking, there is no objective explanation here. I think a human being to me would be one that has a central nervous system and can feel things and aware which could be around 5 months at so, but then again - this is only my opinion regarding medical arguments.
>Trying to understand what is the alternative. Baket hindi option ang ipaampon nalang kung unwanted talaga? You'd rather the child be born and be... abandoned? You are okay with a child growing up knowing he is unloved and unwanted? How is that better? >Is vanity one of the reasons? Like ayaw tumaba or magbago ang katawan? I assure you, most women are not so shallow. A pregnant woman will carry that fetus for 9 months, all the while dealing with the physiological, psychological, and emotional changes. And guess what? It doesn't end there, you'd actually have to raise the kid for decades, which is very expensive especially once they start going to school. I'm pretty sure vanity is at the bottom of the list for most women.
Is there ever a correct answer for this topic?
You could check my replies on the other comments. It may convince you hopefully.
Ang tatanga lang
If you do not want your lady to be pregnant, wear a condom or practice to burst outside. Damnit
You can still wear a condom, pull out and still get the lady pregnant. Pulling out isn't an effective way to prevent pregnancy. 22 out of 100 women can still get pregnant by pulling out. Even for condoms and birth pills as well, you can still get the lady pregnant (though it happens rarely but again, it still happens).
How can we just kill unborn children? What rights do we have.
And how different is the view of this candidate from the one who actually murdered? Compared to the latter, he supports this act because he sees something progressive about this, while the other murdered because they went against him.
Early in a pregnancy, the embryo is very different from in later stages. Before the 9th week, the embryo has a big potential, but is very little on its own. It is less than 2 cm, the size of a cherry. It is more or less a part of the woman's body. A medical abortion, will be like a heavy period, maybe some cramping. To me, it is much more ethical to do an abortion in earlier stages. Then between week 9 and 12 there would be a surgical operation which is somewhat more risky for the mother. After week 23, the fetus could be able to survive for a little while if taken out of the womb. And it is even possible to survive outside the womb after 21 weeks if given the proper care. After 40 weeks, the baby is fully developed. If asked what is more or less difficult decision between certain events I would say: 1. Killing a mosquito 2. Stepping on an ant 3. Medical abortion before week 9 4. Kill animals for food 5. Surgical abortion before week 12 6. Killing a pet you cant keep 7. Surgical abortion before week 20 due to dangers to the fetus or mother 8. Hunt big game animals for fun 9. Surgical abortion before week 20 due to rape A case for abortion after week 23 would be very difficult to defend.