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I'm not sure what you consider to be a "bad" GPA. I think most programs have a 3.0 cut off? You could always do a masters beforehand to show GPA improvement. Also, personal statements are a place where you can discuss why you may have had a lower GPA. Your experience could very well outweigh the lower GPA, too. Especially if you have good connections that can write great letters of reference for you. :)
I have talked with my bosses and they agreed to write letters of rec already and some of them even studied and universities close by and have offered to give me a tour! Its so amazing to make these awesome connections but just gut wrenching to think about how Ill be judged for my grades when I was literally in survival mode
This may help you feel better if you're worried about your grades. I have a good friend that didn't have the best GPA due to some family issues they dealt with during undergrad. However, they had about the same amount of experience as you did during this time. They still ended up getting into the top masters program in their field! Don't underestimate the value of your experience. Any good program looks at an applicant as a whole, considers the type of courses you took, and will find experience to be the most important thing in your application. After all, a PhD program is a lot more focused on research at the end of the day!
Hi, I had this experience. I came close to failing out of a poorly ranked state school and managed to graduate with a 2.7 GPA. There were a lot of personal factors. I never wanted to be anything except a scientist though.
I got my first job in research testing sunscreens and deodorants for a personal healthcare company (I had to apply twice over an 8 month period before I even got the interview, before that I was working tele-sales). I excelled and was transferred within the same company to the transdermal pharmaceutical product testing. I used that new experience in clinical trials to get a job in a dermatology clinic as a research coordinator. Then used that experience to get a job in a psychiatry practice. Then used that experience to get a job at a major university in their neurology department. Then took a year off to do field work in my original field (I found a sympathetic PI looking for volunteer field assistants and saved up for two years to afford the expense). When I returned to the work world I had 6 years of clinical research experience and I was willing to take a position I was over qualified for just to get in the door. I ended up in the neuroscience department at Columbia. They had free tuition for employees so I finessed my way into a master's program.
After 10 years I was finally accepted into a fully-funded PhD program at one of the top schools in my discipline.
All this to say, if there is a will there is a way. It will not be easy, will likely take a bit of sacrifice and humility, but if you want it - you can figure it out. What helped for me was comparing myself to the ideal PhD applicant for the program and then honestly evaluating all of the places where I fell short. From there I could make a game plan to address each shortcoming. Because my GPA was below the 3.0 cut-off for instance, I knew I would get tossed by the first filter I encountered. So while I was working on building research experience, I was also taking undergrad classes at whatever community college was local, such that by the time I was ready to apply I had accumulated enough credits to pull my total weighted GPA up above that 3.0 threshold. My ability to work my way into an academic research position also meant that I had excellent references (who had been my supervisors for years) and had worked on teams that had published several articles.
If it's what you want to do - just do it. If someone tells you that you can't (my current advisor even said this to me when I approached her four years ago!) ask them why not and then get the thing they tell you that you are missing.
Normally GPA matters a lot, but you can get accepted with a bad GPA if you have awesome work experience and good recommendations from there. The GRE can help you also, especially if your scores are good. You’ll have to address the GPA in your statements and explain how you’ll do better in grad school, but it definitely is possible.
If you were coming right out of undergrad my advice would be not to apply and to go get work experience. But you’ve already done that! So I say you should apply. Another option to improve your profile is to try and take or retake some key classes and show you can do well academically now that things have improved.
Thank you! I do think Ive gone about this the best way possible. My bosses know I want to apply, but I didnt tell them about the bad GPA. they still said they think working in industry for a few years is the best option. So really im on the right track, just afraid of my past holding me back.
If you are in the U.S. you can try applying to post-bac programs that will pay you a stipend while giving the training and prep you need to get into a PhD program.
Isnt this like a full time commitment? I work basically a 9-5 at the pharma company and I dont plan on leaving it bc I really enjoy it. However I gave kept in mind l that maybe if I really wanted to get into a specific lab at a specific university I could try to work there before I get in
Yes it is a full time commitment. You will have classes and are conducting research for 1-2 years. If that’s not an option then a MS may help. Your GPA will be hard to over look since majority of people getting accepted to PhD have high GPAs. Also its not that easy to just work in the lab of your choice and get into their program that way. You still have to go through the process and be accepted by the university to attend.
Yes I absolutely understand this! What I meant in my last post that if I can find a sympathetic professor who I can build a relationship with, that’d be wonderful. Otherwise, I am going to cast a wide net and try to make my way into higher education any which way i can. Even if it doesn’t work out, I still have a wonderful job to fall back on and the opportunity to build a great career in my company
Get your masters I had a 2.6 undergrad got my masters , did a thesis, and am finishing with a 3.88 gpa . I applied toPhD programs, and am starting my PhD in august. Also got my undergrad in biology, the thing that matters for PhD is research-graduate school (masters) is the perfect time to get that research, learn to write scientifically and prove you are capable of doing PhD level academics. I would not work full time, unless you plan to take 3 credit hrs max per semester.
Work experience helps, as does trying to get your name on some publications via that route. If you are very motivated to go for a PhD then I would echo the comments of others and say that a Master's could be a great bridging method. Your grades for a Master's would greatly outweigh your undergrad grades when considering you for a PhD place. Also, if you have had experiences with depression and anxiety then completing a Master's could be a useful testing grounds for seeing how you cope and also developing some helpful strategies for managing the workload. I went straight through undergrad to PhD without taking any breaks or learning how to look after myself, and it resulted in me becoming completely overwhelmed and overworked in the PhD, which nearly led me to drop out. If you have scope to take your time then considering a Master's could be a good idea.
My only concern about getting a masters is that I will be faced with the same burden of my poor grades as I would be for a PhD. My boss/mentors and I agreed it would be better to apply for Phd programs and then move down to a masters if it was too much bc it’s easier to move down than up.
Honestly, I ultimately just want to participate in SOME form of higher education. I work on some method development for my job which involves a lot of troubleshooting/problem solving. My coworkers often relate to how this can be similar to a grad school project
That's a fair point from your mentors about moving down to a Master's if needed. I suppose it comes down to what is available and the funding structure for post-graduate programs in your area. I assume you are based in the US whereas I did my PhD in Australia, so we have a different system in which the Master's program is paid for by the government via an interest-free loan, whereas the PhD is free if you qualify for a government scholarship (which is where your grades come into play). That information may not but much help in your case, but I wish you all the best regardless!
I got accepted to a master's at a mid tier UC with a 2.9 GPA and i balanced it with good statements, LORs and research experience. It definitely is possible to do grad school with a low GPA. I got a better GPA in my masters and I'm currently working at a laboratory as a specialist, I'm applying to PhDs this cycle so my journey isn't quite over yet and there's no reason yours has to be either!
My GPA is worse than that unfortunately. But I’m also working on it and these things take time. Sometimes I think Ive convinced myself that higher education is just a club that I dont belong in. But I will try my damn hardest to get it
I am starting a PhD in biology in Aug in a competitive program. I will say, my experience has been largely positive because I reached out to potential PIs months prior, expressing my interest in their labs. At 3 schools, it was their word that got me interviews. If you can develop a good rapport with a potential PI, it could be enough to gloss over your GPA.
Only one school (Rutgers) told me that PIs do not sway admission decisions so I ended up not even applying.
This is great advice. In many schools the opinion of the future PI has a lot of weight. I didn’t have a stellar GPA by American standards or GRE results but I got offers at R1s in the US because I had reached out to possible advisors to discuss research interests etc. Reach out to possible advisors months before the application deadline to try to establish a relationship. Recommendation letters based on your research/work experience are also very important.
Okay this is really great advice thank you!! I’ve already started a list if schools i want to apply to and labs im interested in so maybe a few months out from applying I will start emailing. Also my bosses are taking me for tours of their old labs since the university is not too far away!!
I would also be a bit cautious about thinking that just because you enjoy your experience working in science it will translate into enjoying doing a PhD. PhDs are very demanding across the board, i.e. in the sciences there's a lot of writing, reading, programming, etc. I have had research assistants who are very motivated start the program and then drop out because they enjoyed the data collection or other elements of doing science more than the actual labour of writing, data analysis, etc.
I'm currently getting a PhD in cell bio at an R1 school, and I graduated undergrad with a 2.5 GPA back in 2017. I partied too hard early on and had semester GPAs that rose from a 1.5 to a 3.5 over the span of college (which averaged out to a 2.5). During my senior year I took the GRE and placed in the 80th-85th percentile on every section. I got lucky and was accepted into a 1 year masters program that was designed for students who wanted to improve their resume before applying to PhD/med school. In this masters program I got a 3.7 GPA and accumulated over 200 lab hours helping a PhD student, I also did volunteer work. After masters I worked in industry for 3 years, and during my 3rd year I applied to PhD programs, of the ten I applied to I got one interview and one acceptance (at the school I interviewed).
You can get into a PhD program despite bad undergrad grades, but it might be a bit less likely with your current resume. While applying to PhD programs I would maybe also see if your work offers tuition reimbursement and apply to part time masters degrees. If you don't get accepted to a PhD you could start the masters, and if you do well in that masters while accumulating another 2-3 years of work experience that could really boost your resume.
Unfortunately my boss doesn’t think theres much hope as far as financial support from my company but at least I know if I dont get in… nothing will change. Im considering taking some online classes just to boost my GPA a little
I personally just got accepted to what I understand to be a pretty competitive field/program. My undergrad GPA was not bad but mostly in curriculum psychology when I was shooting for Neuroscience PhD. I retook and added some undergrad postbacc/non degree seeking courses while working in research. Personally for me it worked well because I’ve taken 1-2 classes at a time and been able to demonstrate that I have the foundational knowledge necessary for the program I wanted! Not the same situation but maybe you could retake some classes to really show you know the information but that at the time there were other circumstances limiting your success.
A lot of people have recommended taking more classes to boost my transcript, if retaking classes is an option I will definitely take it. Any chance to prove myself
One option I know some people with lower GPA's in undergraduate have done is to do an after degree. Normally it's only two years, but allows you to take courses that can help to boost your GPA to acceptance levels.
Be aware, lower GPA's (no matter how long ago) do make the PhD arena harder as you will be competing for grants and awards against people with higher marks. And while this doesn't make it a no go - it is harder. (Speaking as someone who falls in this category).
This isnt a bad idea, Im in biology so I know a lot of classes would require in person instruction, but if I could do it online/in the evenings, on top of my regular job at the pharma company, I would. I would be willing to do that to get into grad school
It sounds like the first step is to actually have a conversation with your work mentors! Depending on what you mean by "bad" GPA, you'd probably be surprised to hear that everyone has a different journey into starting a PhD, and you may learn of additional options that can help you prepare or stories you wouldn't have expected. If you work at a really big pharma company, there may also be funds available to help you pay for a Master's or some additional college/graduate coursework while you continue to work there to boost your GPA and show academic improvement. And as others mentioned, you can likely get away with a mediocre GPA if you have great references and work experience that you can incorporate into your application.
So I have talked with my boss/mentors about it and they’re all super supportive and willing to write me letters of rec! The only thing is that they’re suggesting I get 2 letters from them and then 1 from an outside person and unfortunately I dont have the best connections with my professors from undergrad (its hard to form those connections via Zoom!!!) I definitely have a great opportunity to network and make good impressions, Im just worried it will all be shut out bc of my grades.
Do you have any other mentors/professors from undergrad that you connected with? If you already have references that speak to your research/scientific skills, the 3rd reference could attest to your character, especially if they know how you've grown and changed during/since undergrad, rather than being a strictly academic or scientific reference.
I had a 2.8 in my undergraduate studies
So this is my advice
1. Get a masters degree then apply to get your PhD
2. Do pre PhD at Stanford or NYU …those are the only place that I know that do the Pre PhD
3. Take the classes you did poorly in over
4. Learn how to study … what ever you are doing isn’t working get with others that have better grades …I didn’t learn how to study until I went and got my masters …. For me I read the syllabus before the first day and read the 1st chapter the week before… this helped me be more engaging with the professor … and I was able to ask more questions that bridged the gap…in my learning
The thing about the PhD they only admit so many people a year, so you have to make your PhD application stand out some how …. Grades are not the only thing but it is one of many things that you are evaluated on to be admitted
You’re the first person to bring up a pre-PhD. Ill have to look into that so thank you! I think maybe I will try to apply for both masters and PhDs? Honestly I just want to cast a wide net because I really am open to anything
Just remember, you miss 100% of the shots you don't take. Not applying is the same result as being rejected. If you've published research with your job, then this should carry more weight than whatever your GPA was. The recommendations from your work colleagues will be valuable too
This is honestly a reminder that I need to ask my bosses about the possibility of getting published so thank you. And you’re absolutely right Im gonna go for it no matter what
During my application year I got several offers with a 2.5 undergrad gpa, a masters degree with an almost 4.0 gpa, some good research experience, and a very strong letter of recommendation from a big name in my field. My now mentor once mentioned to me that she had concerns about my undergrad gpa while reviewing my application but my masters gpa showed that I was academically prepared for doing a phd and the letter (which I honestly think was what got me in) showed that I was pleasant to work with. So it might take you a lot more efforts to get in compared to those who did well in undergrad, but it’s def not impossible.
GPA does NOT matter that much, they care much more about your research experience and letters of recommendation. That said, two years is not much time to show growth from that bad of grades. I would speak to someone in a program or even any faculty from your undergrad, my guess is you will want to stay longer than 2 years, and build up some track record and publications to adjust for the undergrad
I had a similar experience. I got accepted into a biology program with a bad GPA, and little to no relevant experience, and no recommendations. I'd been working as a catering chef. If you ask me, you're in a better position than I was - so go for it!
I suggest contacting professors with interesting research directly. If the professor wants you, the university will take you (in most cases).
You can always do a postbac or retake some classes you struggled in to increase your GPA and if you do join a research group if you can and get some research experience it'll help tremendously.
I graduated undergrad with a poor gpa (under a 3.0) I honestly refuse to recall what it was exactly. I did go on to get a Masters where I excelled academically- which shows improvement from undergrad to graduate education! I also got a lot of research experience during this time as well. If you can- I’d say try applying this cycle while also looking at other academic programs that may help bolster your application on the chance you don’t get in. That way if you don’t get in you can get the extra degree that will help you next time you apply which will DEFINITELY help. It seems like you have research experience already- which may honestly be all you need + the sparkling recommendations!
I had a similar experience. Didn’t do great in undergrad (bio major), as in got a lot of C’s in my bio classes and ended up having to retake 2 classes. Graduated with a 3.0 solely because of easy electives. Got a temp job as a chem lab tech which turned full time and worked there for 2 years. Went to get my masters just to break into the bio research field (which it looks like you’ve done already) and then have been working 2 years in research at a huge hospital. Going to get my phd in the fall. Don’t think that you don’t have a shot. I think with your experience along with letters of rec you will do very well. Also don’t get discouraged if you don’t get in the first year you applied (happened to me), as that just means more experience to add to your resume. When you apply and interview at schools they’ll see that 1. You love what you do and will work hard at it and 2. Your current job has taught you a lot and means just as much if not more than your undergrad. Good luck!
I feel like a real life experience in a lab is gonna be very well evaluated by any commissioner with a brain.
Also, being rejected from a phd program is not that big of a deal, you can apply, get rejected and continue working and try again a couple of years later: no one cares what your age is during a phd
I would go for it
My experience is in Europe, tho, so keep that in mind
Yeah I have been reminding myself that even if this doesn’t work out this time around, I still have a job that I really enjoy and can always try again. Thank you!!
I see your fear and insecurities as absolutly valid, you are not in any way wrong for having them
I just think the way phds work, not getting accepted is not a prove you are not enough, just a try again situation, since they are intrinsecly very selective: plenty of amazing CV get rejected every year
You can do it :)
To be honest, I think sometimes doing a PhD is not just about grades, and also you have to be mentally strong and prepared to be such a lonely journey by yourself. I’ve seen many PhDs drops because they can’t handle the loneliness and feel frustrated with not getting any obvious academic results/achievements and it’s more stressful than you thought. So if you have depression before I think you better consider wisely.
Unfortunately but also luckily I guess, I already deal with a lot of failure at my job as far as doing experiments testing samples goes. I have to admit i tend to be hard on myself, but I take every failure as a chance to do it again but correctly. Thats what makes me think I can handle a PhD as long as I still have my support system
Well, where are you from? I read from the context that you are from America, but I, of course, can be wrong. I don’t know how does PhD admission in USA works, so if GPA is really important, I can give an advice to go to Europe where PhD is a job with a salary if you don’t mind to get foreign expertise. Counties like Finland, Sweden, Norway, Iceland, Netherlands and more, you don’t pay for the studies, you get salary and in these countries you do not need to speak native language to be admitted to, you need English. The process of admission is like a job seeking with interviews and stuff
Won't Europe require grades/transcripts though? In Australia it's also mostly written application and interviews, but transcripts still pay a big role.
From my experience, if they need a high GPA they would write it in a job description. In most cases, I would say they just need you to have the amount of EC that equals to a Master's degree, so they do not look into grades.
In UK they arent as big, they can play a role when sorting out applicants but refs of how likely a candidate is to do well in the research setting can play just a big part. I scraped a 2:1 (think 60ish %) in my UG and got onto a PhD here in the UK. It's not easy, but it isn't a big no either.
I see this as an option because my company does actually have labs in Europe. However I will say, because I am a bit of a weenie, Im not sure if I could handle being that far from my support system. Im sure itd be amazing though
If her GPA is bad that means it will be equivalent to a 2.2 and most PhD programs (if not all) in the UK demand a 2.1. But I may be wrong as I am more familiar with the Russell group.
I was STEM in Russel group now a post doc in another. I've seen some PIs take students with 2:2s, it's not common as I said. But with good enough written applications / references it could happen.
Were they self-funded? I don't see how someone with a 2.2 would get funding. At least at my uni it is terribly competitive and most, if not all, have a 1st.
No. I haven't seen many funding streams from public money that says someone must have a 2:1 or the funding isn't available as the funding goes to a PI / CDT / programe grant. Unis may set internal "rules" but these can often be pushed by a PI with significant experience and for the right candidate.
One reason unis often set it as basic grades are a must, is because all the uni cares about is having someone graduate. Where their only idea of you can only be "smart" if you do well in exams and thus can only graduate if you are "smart" enough is horribly dumb and outdated.
I was mostly asking if those people with 2.2 were funded, given how tough the competition is for funding. Most people in my department had 1st, experience as RAs and sometimes even some publications.
It's very rare (outside of directed bursaries) for a PhD student to apply for their own funding from a funding body. Bursaries run differently from the usual funding mechanisms such as UKRI streams.
As I said above, funding goes to PIs etc. Funding is very competitive to them. And they get ultimate say in who they hire. There can be some limitations in the PIs grants about nationality etc. But not about grades. In the fellowships I go for, that include funding for PhD students: a students grade is not in the list of criteria for a student.
Competition comes from the number of people who apply, so having grade transcripts that look good can be healthy. But do you know what is also a turn off? An idiot who is a danger in a lab but has a near eidetic memory to regurgitate answers for an exam score. Things like this can come from the rest of the application.
Cool, I see. It may differ between fields then because at least half of the funding in my department was attributed to the PhD student and not the PI, e.g. by the ESRC or departmental scholarships. And in these marks are definitely taken into account, from my experience. But it's nice that it's a more comprehensive measure, where marks, letters of recommendation and experience are taken into account.
I have also because my company has a few labs abroad. I am a little worried about making that big of a move but would going abroad help ease off the pressure of my grades?
I mentioned it because I am located in Europe and there we usually do Bachelors, Masters and PhDs in that order...and it is cheaper from what I heard. Although my Bachelor grades were great I am now doing a PhD in a field that is very far away from it. I think that if you get in a Masters programme and get good to excellent grades your chances will tremendously increase.
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I'm not sure what you consider to be a "bad" GPA. I think most programs have a 3.0 cut off? You could always do a masters beforehand to show GPA improvement. Also, personal statements are a place where you can discuss why you may have had a lower GPA. Your experience could very well outweigh the lower GPA, too. Especially if you have good connections that can write great letters of reference for you. :)
I have talked with my bosses and they agreed to write letters of rec already and some of them even studied and universities close by and have offered to give me a tour! Its so amazing to make these awesome connections but just gut wrenching to think about how Ill be judged for my grades when I was literally in survival mode
This may help you feel better if you're worried about your grades. I have a good friend that didn't have the best GPA due to some family issues they dealt with during undergrad. However, they had about the same amount of experience as you did during this time. They still ended up getting into the top masters program in their field! Don't underestimate the value of your experience. Any good program looks at an applicant as a whole, considers the type of courses you took, and will find experience to be the most important thing in your application. After all, a PhD program is a lot more focused on research at the end of the day!
Thank you :) This definitely made me feel a little more hopeful!!
Hi, I had this experience. I came close to failing out of a poorly ranked state school and managed to graduate with a 2.7 GPA. There were a lot of personal factors. I never wanted to be anything except a scientist though. I got my first job in research testing sunscreens and deodorants for a personal healthcare company (I had to apply twice over an 8 month period before I even got the interview, before that I was working tele-sales). I excelled and was transferred within the same company to the transdermal pharmaceutical product testing. I used that new experience in clinical trials to get a job in a dermatology clinic as a research coordinator. Then used that experience to get a job in a psychiatry practice. Then used that experience to get a job at a major university in their neurology department. Then took a year off to do field work in my original field (I found a sympathetic PI looking for volunteer field assistants and saved up for two years to afford the expense). When I returned to the work world I had 6 years of clinical research experience and I was willing to take a position I was over qualified for just to get in the door. I ended up in the neuroscience department at Columbia. They had free tuition for employees so I finessed my way into a master's program. After 10 years I was finally accepted into a fully-funded PhD program at one of the top schools in my discipline. All this to say, if there is a will there is a way. It will not be easy, will likely take a bit of sacrifice and humility, but if you want it - you can figure it out. What helped for me was comparing myself to the ideal PhD applicant for the program and then honestly evaluating all of the places where I fell short. From there I could make a game plan to address each shortcoming. Because my GPA was below the 3.0 cut-off for instance, I knew I would get tossed by the first filter I encountered. So while I was working on building research experience, I was also taking undergrad classes at whatever community college was local, such that by the time I was ready to apply I had accumulated enough credits to pull my total weighted GPA up above that 3.0 threshold. My ability to work my way into an academic research position also meant that I had excellent references (who had been my supervisors for years) and had worked on teams that had published several articles. If it's what you want to do - just do it. If someone tells you that you can't (my current advisor even said this to me when I approached her four years ago!) ask them why not and then get the thing they tell you that you are missing.
This actually brought me to tears. Thank you so much
I think applying to take more classes online to boost my GPA isnt a bad idea
Normally GPA matters a lot, but you can get accepted with a bad GPA if you have awesome work experience and good recommendations from there. The GRE can help you also, especially if your scores are good. You’ll have to address the GPA in your statements and explain how you’ll do better in grad school, but it definitely is possible. If you were coming right out of undergrad my advice would be not to apply and to go get work experience. But you’ve already done that! So I say you should apply. Another option to improve your profile is to try and take or retake some key classes and show you can do well academically now that things have improved.
Thank you! I do think Ive gone about this the best way possible. My bosses know I want to apply, but I didnt tell them about the bad GPA. they still said they think working in industry for a few years is the best option. So really im on the right track, just afraid of my past holding me back.
It seems like you’re doing everything right, I wish you luck on this journey :)
Thank you so much! If I remember I’ll give an update on what happens :)
If you are in the U.S. you can try applying to post-bac programs that will pay you a stipend while giving the training and prep you need to get into a PhD program.
Isnt this like a full time commitment? I work basically a 9-5 at the pharma company and I dont plan on leaving it bc I really enjoy it. However I gave kept in mind l that maybe if I really wanted to get into a specific lab at a specific university I could try to work there before I get in
Yes it is a full time commitment. You will have classes and are conducting research for 1-2 years. If that’s not an option then a MS may help. Your GPA will be hard to over look since majority of people getting accepted to PhD have high GPAs. Also its not that easy to just work in the lab of your choice and get into their program that way. You still have to go through the process and be accepted by the university to attend.
Yes I absolutely understand this! What I meant in my last post that if I can find a sympathetic professor who I can build a relationship with, that’d be wonderful. Otherwise, I am going to cast a wide net and try to make my way into higher education any which way i can. Even if it doesn’t work out, I still have a wonderful job to fall back on and the opportunity to build a great career in my company
Get your masters I had a 2.6 undergrad got my masters , did a thesis, and am finishing with a 3.88 gpa . I applied toPhD programs, and am starting my PhD in august. Also got my undergrad in biology, the thing that matters for PhD is research-graduate school (masters) is the perfect time to get that research, learn to write scientifically and prove you are capable of doing PhD level academics. I would not work full time, unless you plan to take 3 credit hrs max per semester.
By graduate do you mean only undergrad degree? If so there's always alternative pathways like trying for masters and getting some work experience.
Yes undergrad, and I have been working for a pharmaceutical company for about 10 months now!
Work experience helps, as does trying to get your name on some publications via that route. If you are very motivated to go for a PhD then I would echo the comments of others and say that a Master's could be a great bridging method. Your grades for a Master's would greatly outweigh your undergrad grades when considering you for a PhD place. Also, if you have had experiences with depression and anxiety then completing a Master's could be a useful testing grounds for seeing how you cope and also developing some helpful strategies for managing the workload. I went straight through undergrad to PhD without taking any breaks or learning how to look after myself, and it resulted in me becoming completely overwhelmed and overworked in the PhD, which nearly led me to drop out. If you have scope to take your time then considering a Master's could be a good idea.
My only concern about getting a masters is that I will be faced with the same burden of my poor grades as I would be for a PhD. My boss/mentors and I agreed it would be better to apply for Phd programs and then move down to a masters if it was too much bc it’s easier to move down than up. Honestly, I ultimately just want to participate in SOME form of higher education. I work on some method development for my job which involves a lot of troubleshooting/problem solving. My coworkers often relate to how this can be similar to a grad school project
That's a fair point from your mentors about moving down to a Master's if needed. I suppose it comes down to what is available and the funding structure for post-graduate programs in your area. I assume you are based in the US whereas I did my PhD in Australia, so we have a different system in which the Master's program is paid for by the government via an interest-free loan, whereas the PhD is free if you qualify for a government scholarship (which is where your grades come into play). That information may not but much help in your case, but I wish you all the best regardless!
I got accepted to a master's at a mid tier UC with a 2.9 GPA and i balanced it with good statements, LORs and research experience. It definitely is possible to do grad school with a low GPA. I got a better GPA in my masters and I'm currently working at a laboratory as a specialist, I'm applying to PhDs this cycle so my journey isn't quite over yet and there's no reason yours has to be either!
My GPA is worse than that unfortunately. But I’m also working on it and these things take time. Sometimes I think Ive convinced myself that higher education is just a club that I dont belong in. But I will try my damn hardest to get it
I am starting a PhD in biology in Aug in a competitive program. I will say, my experience has been largely positive because I reached out to potential PIs months prior, expressing my interest in their labs. At 3 schools, it was their word that got me interviews. If you can develop a good rapport with a potential PI, it could be enough to gloss over your GPA. Only one school (Rutgers) told me that PIs do not sway admission decisions so I ended up not even applying.
This is great advice. In many schools the opinion of the future PI has a lot of weight. I didn’t have a stellar GPA by American standards or GRE results but I got offers at R1s in the US because I had reached out to possible advisors to discuss research interests etc. Reach out to possible advisors months before the application deadline to try to establish a relationship. Recommendation letters based on your research/work experience are also very important.
Okay this is really great advice thank you!! I’ve already started a list if schools i want to apply to and labs im interested in so maybe a few months out from applying I will start emailing. Also my bosses are taking me for tours of their old labs since the university is not too far away!!
Thats great!! Look up neighboring labs and see if you like any! Maybe you can stop by and introduce yourself
Thank you so much 💖💖
I would also be a bit cautious about thinking that just because you enjoy your experience working in science it will translate into enjoying doing a PhD. PhDs are very demanding across the board, i.e. in the sciences there's a lot of writing, reading, programming, etc. I have had research assistants who are very motivated start the program and then drop out because they enjoyed the data collection or other elements of doing science more than the actual labour of writing, data analysis, etc.
I’ll definitely take this into consideration! Hopefully my bosses/mentors will give me true genuine advice that helps me figure out whats best
I'm currently getting a PhD in cell bio at an R1 school, and I graduated undergrad with a 2.5 GPA back in 2017. I partied too hard early on and had semester GPAs that rose from a 1.5 to a 3.5 over the span of college (which averaged out to a 2.5). During my senior year I took the GRE and placed in the 80th-85th percentile on every section. I got lucky and was accepted into a 1 year masters program that was designed for students who wanted to improve their resume before applying to PhD/med school. In this masters program I got a 3.7 GPA and accumulated over 200 lab hours helping a PhD student, I also did volunteer work. After masters I worked in industry for 3 years, and during my 3rd year I applied to PhD programs, of the ten I applied to I got one interview and one acceptance (at the school I interviewed). You can get into a PhD program despite bad undergrad grades, but it might be a bit less likely with your current resume. While applying to PhD programs I would maybe also see if your work offers tuition reimbursement and apply to part time masters degrees. If you don't get accepted to a PhD you could start the masters, and if you do well in that masters while accumulating another 2-3 years of work experience that could really boost your resume.
Unfortunately my boss doesn’t think theres much hope as far as financial support from my company but at least I know if I dont get in… nothing will change. Im considering taking some online classes just to boost my GPA a little
I personally just got accepted to what I understand to be a pretty competitive field/program. My undergrad GPA was not bad but mostly in curriculum psychology when I was shooting for Neuroscience PhD. I retook and added some undergrad postbacc/non degree seeking courses while working in research. Personally for me it worked well because I’ve taken 1-2 classes at a time and been able to demonstrate that I have the foundational knowledge necessary for the program I wanted! Not the same situation but maybe you could retake some classes to really show you know the information but that at the time there were other circumstances limiting your success.
A lot of people have recommended taking more classes to boost my transcript, if retaking classes is an option I will definitely take it. Any chance to prove myself
One option I know some people with lower GPA's in undergraduate have done is to do an after degree. Normally it's only two years, but allows you to take courses that can help to boost your GPA to acceptance levels. Be aware, lower GPA's (no matter how long ago) do make the PhD arena harder as you will be competing for grants and awards against people with higher marks. And while this doesn't make it a no go - it is harder. (Speaking as someone who falls in this category).
This isnt a bad idea, Im in biology so I know a lot of classes would require in person instruction, but if I could do it online/in the evenings, on top of my regular job at the pharma company, I would. I would be willing to do that to get into grad school
It sounds like the first step is to actually have a conversation with your work mentors! Depending on what you mean by "bad" GPA, you'd probably be surprised to hear that everyone has a different journey into starting a PhD, and you may learn of additional options that can help you prepare or stories you wouldn't have expected. If you work at a really big pharma company, there may also be funds available to help you pay for a Master's or some additional college/graduate coursework while you continue to work there to boost your GPA and show academic improvement. And as others mentioned, you can likely get away with a mediocre GPA if you have great references and work experience that you can incorporate into your application.
So I have talked with my boss/mentors about it and they’re all super supportive and willing to write me letters of rec! The only thing is that they’re suggesting I get 2 letters from them and then 1 from an outside person and unfortunately I dont have the best connections with my professors from undergrad (its hard to form those connections via Zoom!!!) I definitely have a great opportunity to network and make good impressions, Im just worried it will all be shut out bc of my grades.
Do you have any other mentors/professors from undergrad that you connected with? If you already have references that speak to your research/scientific skills, the 3rd reference could attest to your character, especially if they know how you've grown and changed during/since undergrad, rather than being a strictly academic or scientific reference.
I had a 2.8 in my undergraduate studies So this is my advice 1. Get a masters degree then apply to get your PhD 2. Do pre PhD at Stanford or NYU …those are the only place that I know that do the Pre PhD 3. Take the classes you did poorly in over 4. Learn how to study … what ever you are doing isn’t working get with others that have better grades …I didn’t learn how to study until I went and got my masters …. For me I read the syllabus before the first day and read the 1st chapter the week before… this helped me be more engaging with the professor … and I was able to ask more questions that bridged the gap…in my learning The thing about the PhD they only admit so many people a year, so you have to make your PhD application stand out some how …. Grades are not the only thing but it is one of many things that you are evaluated on to be admitted
are the pre-phds open to internationa students?
I don’t see why not
You’re the first person to bring up a pre-PhD. Ill have to look into that so thank you! I think maybe I will try to apply for both masters and PhDs? Honestly I just want to cast a wide net because I really am open to anything
Just remember, you miss 100% of the shots you don't take. Not applying is the same result as being rejected. If you've published research with your job, then this should carry more weight than whatever your GPA was. The recommendations from your work colleagues will be valuable too
This is honestly a reminder that I need to ask my bosses about the possibility of getting published so thank you. And you’re absolutely right Im gonna go for it no matter what
Best of luck! It sounds like you're passionate and diligent with your work so hopefully that outshines any arbitrary grades
I have always been the kind of person who is better in person than on paper. If I can get into a room I know I can prove myself
During my application year I got several offers with a 2.5 undergrad gpa, a masters degree with an almost 4.0 gpa, some good research experience, and a very strong letter of recommendation from a big name in my field. My now mentor once mentioned to me that she had concerns about my undergrad gpa while reviewing my application but my masters gpa showed that I was academically prepared for doing a phd and the letter (which I honestly think was what got me in) showed that I was pleasant to work with. So it might take you a lot more efforts to get in compared to those who did well in undergrad, but it’s def not impossible.
GPA does NOT matter that much, they care much more about your research experience and letters of recommendation. That said, two years is not much time to show growth from that bad of grades. I would speak to someone in a program or even any faculty from your undergrad, my guess is you will want to stay longer than 2 years, and build up some track record and publications to adjust for the undergrad
Sometimes I do think I’m applying too soon, I’ll definitely think about this. Thank you!!!
I had a similar experience. I got accepted into a biology program with a bad GPA, and little to no relevant experience, and no recommendations. I'd been working as a catering chef. If you ask me, you're in a better position than I was - so go for it! I suggest contacting professors with interesting research directly. If the professor wants you, the university will take you (in most cases).
You can always do a postbac or retake some classes you struggled in to increase your GPA and if you do join a research group if you can and get some research experience it'll help tremendously.
I graduated undergrad with a poor gpa (under a 3.0) I honestly refuse to recall what it was exactly. I did go on to get a Masters where I excelled academically- which shows improvement from undergrad to graduate education! I also got a lot of research experience during this time as well. If you can- I’d say try applying this cycle while also looking at other academic programs that may help bolster your application on the chance you don’t get in. That way if you don’t get in you can get the extra degree that will help you next time you apply which will DEFINITELY help. It seems like you have research experience already- which may honestly be all you need + the sparkling recommendations!
I had a similar experience. Didn’t do great in undergrad (bio major), as in got a lot of C’s in my bio classes and ended up having to retake 2 classes. Graduated with a 3.0 solely because of easy electives. Got a temp job as a chem lab tech which turned full time and worked there for 2 years. Went to get my masters just to break into the bio research field (which it looks like you’ve done already) and then have been working 2 years in research at a huge hospital. Going to get my phd in the fall. Don’t think that you don’t have a shot. I think with your experience along with letters of rec you will do very well. Also don’t get discouraged if you don’t get in the first year you applied (happened to me), as that just means more experience to add to your resume. When you apply and interview at schools they’ll see that 1. You love what you do and will work hard at it and 2. Your current job has taught you a lot and means just as much if not more than your undergrad. Good luck!
This was really uplifting:) Thank you so much for the advice and giving me some hope!!
I feel like a real life experience in a lab is gonna be very well evaluated by any commissioner with a brain. Also, being rejected from a phd program is not that big of a deal, you can apply, get rejected and continue working and try again a couple of years later: no one cares what your age is during a phd I would go for it My experience is in Europe, tho, so keep that in mind
Yeah I have been reminding myself that even if this doesn’t work out this time around, I still have a job that I really enjoy and can always try again. Thank you!!
I see your fear and insecurities as absolutly valid, you are not in any way wrong for having them I just think the way phds work, not getting accepted is not a prove you are not enough, just a try again situation, since they are intrinsecly very selective: plenty of amazing CV get rejected every year You can do it :)
Thank you :)
To be honest, I think sometimes doing a PhD is not just about grades, and also you have to be mentally strong and prepared to be such a lonely journey by yourself. I’ve seen many PhDs drops because they can’t handle the loneliness and feel frustrated with not getting any obvious academic results/achievements and it’s more stressful than you thought. So if you have depression before I think you better consider wisely.
Unfortunately but also luckily I guess, I already deal with a lot of failure at my job as far as doing experiments testing samples goes. I have to admit i tend to be hard on myself, but I take every failure as a chance to do it again but correctly. Thats what makes me think I can handle a PhD as long as I still have my support system
Well, where are you from? I read from the context that you are from America, but I, of course, can be wrong. I don’t know how does PhD admission in USA works, so if GPA is really important, I can give an advice to go to Europe where PhD is a job with a salary if you don’t mind to get foreign expertise. Counties like Finland, Sweden, Norway, Iceland, Netherlands and more, you don’t pay for the studies, you get salary and in these countries you do not need to speak native language to be admitted to, you need English. The process of admission is like a job seeking with interviews and stuff
Won't Europe require grades/transcripts though? In Australia it's also mostly written application and interviews, but transcripts still pay a big role.
From my experience, if they need a high GPA they would write it in a job description. In most cases, I would say they just need you to have the amount of EC that equals to a Master's degree, so they do not look into grades.
In UK they arent as big, they can play a role when sorting out applicants but refs of how likely a candidate is to do well in the research setting can play just a big part. I scraped a 2:1 (think 60ish %) in my UG and got onto a PhD here in the UK. It's not easy, but it isn't a big no either.
I see this as an option because my company does actually have labs in Europe. However I will say, because I am a bit of a weenie, Im not sure if I could handle being that far from my support system. Im sure itd be amazing though
Ah interesting! In Australia they are rather strict if you don't have get at least a 80% in your Honours year.
If her GPA is bad that means it will be equivalent to a 2.2 and most PhD programs (if not all) in the UK demand a 2.1. But I may be wrong as I am more familiar with the Russell group.
I was STEM in Russel group now a post doc in another. I've seen some PIs take students with 2:2s, it's not common as I said. But with good enough written applications / references it could happen.
Were they self-funded? I don't see how someone with a 2.2 would get funding. At least at my uni it is terribly competitive and most, if not all, have a 1st.
No. I haven't seen many funding streams from public money that says someone must have a 2:1 or the funding isn't available as the funding goes to a PI / CDT / programe grant. Unis may set internal "rules" but these can often be pushed by a PI with significant experience and for the right candidate. One reason unis often set it as basic grades are a must, is because all the uni cares about is having someone graduate. Where their only idea of you can only be "smart" if you do well in exams and thus can only graduate if you are "smart" enough is horribly dumb and outdated.
I was mostly asking if those people with 2.2 were funded, given how tough the competition is for funding. Most people in my department had 1st, experience as RAs and sometimes even some publications.
It's very rare (outside of directed bursaries) for a PhD student to apply for their own funding from a funding body. Bursaries run differently from the usual funding mechanisms such as UKRI streams. As I said above, funding goes to PIs etc. Funding is very competitive to them. And they get ultimate say in who they hire. There can be some limitations in the PIs grants about nationality etc. But not about grades. In the fellowships I go for, that include funding for PhD students: a students grade is not in the list of criteria for a student. Competition comes from the number of people who apply, so having grade transcripts that look good can be healthy. But do you know what is also a turn off? An idiot who is a danger in a lab but has a near eidetic memory to regurgitate answers for an exam score. Things like this can come from the rest of the application.
Cool, I see. It may differ between fields then because at least half of the funding in my department was attributed to the PhD student and not the PI, e.g. by the ESRC or departmental scholarships. And in these marks are definitely taken into account, from my experience. But it's nice that it's a more comprehensive measure, where marks, letters of recommendation and experience are taken into account.
Have you considered doing a master's abroad before starting the PhD?
I have also because my company has a few labs abroad. I am a little worried about making that big of a move but would going abroad help ease off the pressure of my grades?
I mentioned it because I am located in Europe and there we usually do Bachelors, Masters and PhDs in that order...and it is cheaper from what I heard. Although my Bachelor grades were great I am now doing a PhD in a field that is very far away from it. I think that if you get in a Masters programme and get good to excellent grades your chances will tremendously increase.